Video summary
The video transcript explores a persistent question regarding why women's sexual desire often declines more rapidly than men's within long-term relationships. The discussion highlights that while evolutionary biology suggests fertility peaks should correlate with high libido, the reality in established partnerships is different; sex drive can drop significantly within the first year or two of a relationship and continue to decrease over time. This phenomenon appears distinct from age-related fertility loss alone, as it seems driven by an adaptation where initial frequent sexual activity serves as a retention strategy to secure male commitment early on. Once that bond is established and perceived risks like pregnancy diminish with age or menopause approaches, the strategic necessity for high-frequency sex may lessen, leading partners to settle at a lower level of intimacy that aligns more closely with female preference rather than male desire.
The conversation further delves into the concept of non-conceptive sex as a bargaining chip within relationships, suggesting that what begins as an evolutionary mechanism to lock in a partner can evolve into a maintenance tool or even a point of negotiation later in life. Studies cited indicate that men often self-report wanting significantly more sex than their partners do, implying that couples naturally converge on the lower end of male desire and female capacity for compromise. However, some participants argue against viewing this strictly as a one-sided manipulation tactic, proposing instead that sexual bonding is symmetrical and serves to bind both parties together. This perspective challenges the notion of inherent biological deficits in women's libido over time, suggesting that societal narratives about declining female desire might overlook how sex functions differently once the primary goal of securing commitment has been achieved.
Beyond specific relationship dynamics, the dialogue shifts toward broader questions about human nature and whether observed behaviors reflect innate traits or environmental adaptations. The speakers debate whether studying hunter-gatherer societies in conditions of scarcity provides a truer picture of evolutionary psychology or if modern affluent environments allow suppressed aspects of human nature to emerge more fully. They consider that sex differences might be exaggerated in abundance-rich contexts where needs are met, potentially leading to extreme expressions of traits not necessarily present under ancestral pressures. Ultimately, the consensus leans toward viewing these behaviors as complex interactions between innate predispositions and environmental factors, noting that even when traditional gender roles or expectations are challenged in diverse cultures, underlying tendencies often re-emerge, suggesting a deep-seated biological component intertwined with cultural context.
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I've got I've got a question that I've
never been able to work out. Why do you
think women's sexual desire declines
faster than men's in relationships?
>> Mhm.
>> [sighs]
>> I I genuinely don't know. I tweeted it
as a question. I'm hoping that maybe
Steve or Rob here could have better
answer than I do.
>> don't know either. I
>> Bro, if I'm three for three here, this
is [ __ ] money.
>> I mean, would it not make sense
women at the peak of fertility would
have the strongest desire for sex? I
mean
>> Yeah.
>> But this isn't this isn't just a
>> This isn't just a So that effect exists
as well?
>> Yeah.
>> But this effect is even more peculiar
where
if they remate again later, the sex
drive goes up again. It's just that it's
like, oh, the first year or two
>> of a
a mate retention strategy? Right, you're
in a new relationship, so you would want
to sort of boost your sexual
uh you know, whatever libido
>> No, it's you're getting it. You're
getting it. It's an adaptation to get
them on the hook.
>> Yeah.
>> To say, if you mate with me, there'll be
sex all the time.
>> Yeah, but once you have a guy locked in
and you've been married for 20 years
>> say.
>> you're no longer fertile and you know,
the
the risks to you are very low if you're,
you know, in
>> Yeah.
>> I wish it was 20 years. The decline is
the decline is much
>> It's within the first within the first
The first year, I think it drops by
half, and then it drops again, and then
it drops again. But I I
talked about this earlier on. Your risks
of pregnancy are much higher the older
you get, too.
>> Yeah, there's not a big cost for men. So
maybe looking at the women's side of it
is the wrong Maybe it's just doesn't
decline for men cuz it's not such a big
cost for men.
>> Maybe sex starts as a bargaining
strategy, but then
sorry, a retention strategy, but then
becomes a bargaining chip later. I don't
know if that's too That's [ __ ] I
don't know if that's too out there, but
maybe the maybe the strategic function
of non-conceptive sex. Cuz there is two
types of sex, right? There's conceptive
sex and non-conceptive sex, and humans
are weird that we do both. Um and this
non-conceptive sex, I could see it
having this retention function early,
but then once you're in the
relationship, it's like, well, what am I
doing with this? And maybe it's maybe
Maybe a bargaining chip or something.
>> I remember
>> that study that you tweeted, which was
uh
women say that inside of relationships
they have around about the the amount of
sex that they want, and men self-report
that they would like to have about twice
as much sex as they are, which suggests
that the couple zero in on the preferred
level of sex that the woman wants, and
that the man is making a compromise.
>> Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that was uh that was
from Roy Baumeister, uh if I'm not
mistaken. And yeah, yeah, I mean I think
he does he does um offer this as a as an
idea that um the the you know that that
sex can be a bargaining chip, and that
kind of as you as the relationship
prolongs and endures and so on that uh
you know sex is essentially used
initially, the reason why it's so high
is to lock the male partner in, and to
you know to to to you know
get the commitment, and then you know
once once he's uh he's committed, then
you don't have to have as much sex. He's
speaking about sort of like the costs
and benefits of sex in general, and you
know the the costs are relatively low
when you're in your 20s and you know
early 30s, but then as you age uh
pregnancy you know gets higher, and then
you hit menopause, and
>> Well, if you could presumably these
studies have controlled for age, though.
>> Yeah, again, it there is the age effect
is real. Um there's actually some new
data out on that, which is not uh which
is kind of kind of weird, actually, but
we can talk about that separately.
Um but yeah, no, it's a it's a it's a
within a relationship time span effect,
and it's surprisingly quick. So, it
wouldn't necessarily just be like
fertility decline. It seems to be like
genuine
I mean maybe it's just non maybe there's
not much evolutionary storytelling to be
told here. It's like boredom, but I
don't know what's the what what what
>> we talking like like abs- in absolute
terms? Like how much does it actually
decline absolutely?
>> It'll be on my Twitter if you want to
pull up the graph.
>> It's going to be hard to find. Because
like relative to men, it totally makes
sense that men are are always going to
have a stronger sex drive like in
relationships, single, we work whatever
the situation is, men are just because
you know from like an average air
management perspective, um it's better
for men to just sort of be ready to go
at any time, but for women I'm just
wondering like how much of
the decline
occurs from time one to time two to time
three and so on.
>> Not not sure.
Can I just add you know the idea of
women using sex to get guys into
relationships? I think it's a bit more
symmetrical than that. I think that sex
bonds both parties to it both partners
to each other.
>> The the king of sex differences telling
us that I don't think there's a sex
difference there which is kind
>> Yeah, yeah, there's always got to be
one.
>> I wanted to ask something
and then you can tell me if this is
taking us too far afield here. On our
earlier discussion something occurred to
me which is you know like what's the
question we're interested in like
regarding sex differences. Is it
you know how interesting that men are
different now than they were decades ago
or how interesting is it that sex
differences are larger in this context
but smaller in that one or are we
interested in you know what's like the
true sex difference. You know you strip
away everything and like once you really
drill down here's what it is. And I
remember I had this conversation I think
I was in college working as an RA years
ago and
you know we were reading about weird
societies western educated
industrialized rich democracies and you
know there was this thing going on both
of you all of you are aware of this of
like oh we can't really learn anything
about I mean I'm simplifying somewhat we
can't really learn much about human
psychology studying weird societies
because this is a very sort of peculiar
time in history. These are very strange
you know weird societies in both senses
of the term. And so we need to collect
data from other countries and other
parts of the world and you know look
look historically and so on
and I I wondered like like when we're
trying to study psychology when we're
trying to study human nature
what is more reflective of human nature
too. Is it
you got to look at the hunter gatherers
you know whether extent hunter gatherers
or hunter gatherers you know
in pre-agricultural times when they were
sort of scattered all over the world and
had access to different kinds of land
and territory and so on.
Um
we got to study the hunter-gatherers in
environments of relative scarcity
uh because that's what humans uh that's
how humans lived for most of our
evolutionary history. That's what human
nature is. Or is it um that can't be
human nature because they lived in
relative scarcity and they're they're
only behaving that way because they're
stuck in this kind of, you know,
archaic, uh pre-industrial, pre-literate
society and actually we should be
studying rich societies because now that
you have all of your needs met, now sort
of the true underlying uh uh traits and
attributes and characteristics can
finally emerge and um you know,
instantiate themselves.
>> So, it's kind of like the gender gender
inequality paradox kind of except for
it's like the abundance paradox, let's
say, we're becoming
>> Yeah. Like like what what what I mean,
yeah, or or or does the question not
even make sense? That there is no real
true human nature and that it'll always
kind of interact with environments in
weird ways.
>> Yeah.
Uh both of the ideas came to my mind as
you were as you were saying that.
Uh in terms of what the evolutionary
push is, just directionally, I think
it's good to look at all the different
uh types of societies. Do you find it in
hunter-gatherers? Does it persist even
in weird societies? Like sometimes
that's quite good evidence if in weird
societies often you have a push against
traditional sex differences and they
often emerge anyway, suggesting that the
there is an innate nudge.
Um yeah, if they get bigger
in uh
abundance societies, it may be that
they're um
expressing themselves more than the
level for which they were selected to be
expressed. Hm. So, it could be that uh
human nature is able to express itself
to an unnaturally extreme degree
uh potentially.
Yeah, does [sighs] that
>> Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
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