Session #1: The Scholars Mixtape: 2026 Latinx Theatre Commons Carnaval of New Latinx Musicals

back. >> We can hear you. >> So, if you can find a shady spot, we are going to start with our scholars mix tape mula who will get us kicked off. >> Yes. If you can hear me, clap once. >> In the camp, if you can hear me, clap twice. If you can hear me, give me a greet. [cheering] >> All right. Hi, everybody. Uh, we're almost all back together, but hi. How are you? It's so good to see you all. It's so good to see you. You all look amazing. I want to hug each and every one of you. Uh, it's it's really it's been so long. It's been so long since I've seen so many of you. Um, welcome back. I hope you enjoyed your little break. For those of you that I haven't met, please, I want to meet all of you. I'm David Davila. I am a writer. Oh. Oh, start. I am a writer of uh musicals and plays and all kinds of things. And I'm >> professor >> and I'm assistant professor of playwriting at Loyola Mary Mount University in Los Angeles. >> And I'm on the uh planning committee for this pachunga. So, thank you for coming. Appreciate it. I want to introduce all of my glorious colleagues here. Aren't they so good-looking? Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, you guys. You shouldn't have given me a mic. [laughter] I think you these people don't need introduction, but I'm gonna introduce them anyway. Uh, first I have Dr. Daffany Secret. Thank you. She's a multi-hyphenate theater artist who teaches theater at UC Riverside >> and co-directs the Candela Fellowship. Many of whom, yeah, many of you all are Candela fellows. >> Candela fellows. >> Uh, which is for Latin Caribbean musical theater creatives in New York. over the summer. You can all apply. I think like May it usually drops. Highly recommend. She's also the co-editor of the first companion to Latina and Caribbean musical theater >> with you and with Teddy. >> With me and with uh Dr. Rodriguez. Uh and she will soon be launching a how round series on Latina and Caribbean musical theater which will drop any day now featuring a list of over 300 plus Latin and Caribbean musicals written since 2008. Post in the Heights. Yes, y'all. Two over there's about 360 musicals on that list so far. Written post in the Heights. And so once we get that list, we got to distribute it. We got to share it. We got to let people know. Very important. >> And she really needs no introduction. [laughter] Dr. Maria Patrice Aean is chair of the theater department at CSU San Marcos and a Southern California based director, drama Turk, producer, and scholar. She is co-artic director of Thuyo Theater and she serves as associate artistic director and Latinx projects producer at San Diego Rep where she launched and produced the Latinx new play festival and serves as co-chava and to her left is Dr. Jade P Sotomayor. [cheering and screaming] She's a Cali Rican educator, scholar, performer, and associate professor in the department of theater and dance at UC San Diego, where she teaches Puerto Rican and Latin cultural studies, including theatro dance and embodied expression, and serves as the director of Chicanx Latinx Studies Program. Her publications on Bomba, dance history in the Borderlands have won several awards and her new book titled Abla, Speaking Bodies and Dancing Our America was just released through NYU Press this August. So, make sure your libraries order that book and get it on your syllabi. And lastly, but not least, Dr. Teddy Alexis Rodriguez was born in Pon, Puerto Rico, and he is a practicing artist and scholar. He's currently an adjunct professor at Fullerton College and a lecturer at Cal State Fullerton. Most recently, he directed for the Brown and Out Festival at the Renberg Theater and his full-length play, How Did Edward Lose His Accent, was featured in the Azukar New Play Reading Festival in New Orleans. So, thank you for for being on this panel. >> How am I doing on time? I'm already behind, aren't I? >> [laughter] >> Okay, beautiful. Great. So, thank you all for being here today. It was really important for the planning committee that we contextualize what we're doing this weekend and make sure that everybody has the sort of right tools and language and verbiage around what we're doing here, right? Because there's a lot of sort of confusion and uh around even just what terms to use, right? Is it Latina? Is it Latino? Is it Latinx? Is it Latina? Latina Caribbean is how we're uh referring to it in our book. But we wanted to make sure everyone had the tools and resources and context to view the weekend. So that's what today's quick little conversation is going to be about. And we have the some amazing scholars here to >> and artists >> and artists. Everyone's of course an artist as well as three of the drama turs that worked on the shows this whole week. You've been in rehearsal giving wonderful notes and everything. So we're going to talk about a little bit of that too. But first, I would like this is also and the whole weekend really is meant to be an interactive weekend between all of you. So, Bridget, Bridget, she's got a mic and we're going to go around really quickly and I want to hear from you all. First up, let's get a few people to just name some Latina musicals, Latino Caribbean musicals. >> Shout shout them out as best you can. Let's hear him. >> In the Heights. >> In the Heights. Bonava Social Club. >> Kiss of the Spiderwoman. What else? >> Zoots. >> Real women have curves. >> O. >> BAS. You all have to see that. I cried and cried. The whole audience was sobbing. It's so good. Uh, what? Exodus. Hell yeah. >> Yes. Any others? >> Little Dwin there. I hear I'm hearing a lot. So, this is good. This is good. Everyone turn to the person to your right and name one. How about that? >> Okay, great. Now, Bridget, [laughter] now Bridget, I really need your help because >> I would like >> to hear from a couple of audience members on what you think makes a Latina or Caribbean musical Latina or Caribbean. What makes a musical a Latina and Caribbean musical? >> Yeah, raise your hands. Raise your hand so Bridget can find you. >> It's written by Latin person, Latina author. That's what we have. Kamas, >> the themes. The themes that are Latina. What else? >> This is great. >> The music. Hell yeah. >> Latina music. >> It the the like sonic languages. That's Yeah. >> Yeah. That's great. centers a story about Latin A people or Latin a community. >> Love that. Love that. And high [laughter] >> written from within and comes out. >> Okay, these are all really great answers. We have a couple of questions that we want you to consider. Um so I'll >> Yes. >> So the first question that we want you cons you we want you to Consider this is an interior consideration. So, think about it. Hold it in your mind. Uh, who created the piece that you're thinking of? Think of a Latina or Caribbean musical. Who created it? Who represented it? >> Where is the story located? >> What languages are used? >> The musical traditions are important, too. >> What tra what theatrical traditions are present? And who is the intended audience? and what relationship does the work have to Latin America or uh the Caribbean or the diaspora? All of these are really important questions. Um defin we wanted to share some questions is as you're watching these pieces because there's four different pieces and they're very different stylistically they're different structurally written differently. And so part of like trying to understand what makes a Latina musical, you're coming to a festival and you're seeing four completely different styles of Latina musicals. And so that's why these questions are important to think about as you're watching this. Um, I'd love for y'all to raise your hand and some of you are going to agree and some of you are going to disagree. And this is part of this large conversation about Latina and Caribbean musicals. again, what makes and what is and we are not going to come to a consensus on this over this weekend. [laughter] I'm just letting you know. Um, but I'm going to start by naming some of these musicals and see if you think if you believe that they are a Latin and Carvy musical. I'm going to start with a controversial one. >> And wait, can we get you all to cheer? Say yes, scream gito if you agree. And if not, you can remain silent >> or you can boo. >> Oh yes. Yes. Yes. [laughter] Okay. Okay. The first one, Westside Story. [laughter] >> Depends. >> Westside Story. We like this. Yes. >> In the Heights. [screaming] >> Yes. [cheering] Love this. Okay. Okay. Evita. >> [laughter] >> I'm liking this. All right. Next. The Capeman. >> The Capeman. Y'all should It is literally technically it's technically it is the first Latino musical technically, but you should look into the controversy of it and the representation of having the first musical story be of a murderer, mass murderer in Puerto Rico >> by Paul Simon. Yes. So controvers. ALL RIGHT. NEXT. Kiss of the Spiderwoman. >> Okay. Mix mix >> mix. >> All right. >> Mix >> with a mix. EXODUS. >> YES. [screaming] EXODUS. HAMILTON. [laughter] >> WOW. That one's also mixed. >> Wow. >> All right. All right. All right. We got two more. Two more. >> REAL WOMEN HAVE CURVES. >> YES. >> And Buen Aista Social Club. >> Yes. [screaming] >> All right. >> Okay. >> Amazing. We're gonna have you think about these questions again. Again, uh rhetorical questions to spend some time thinking about. Uh what about a musical created by a Latina artist that doesn't sound Latina at all? Oh, do you have thoughts on are there Latina musicals created by Latina artists that don't sound Latina? Do we have any thoughts on which ones those might be? >> They're definitely >> a chorus line. Excellent. Coowriter is Puerto Rican. >> Excellent. >> Oh, yeah. >> Potluck. Did y'all see potluck? >> Yes. >> What about the the >> choreographed by our very own Anamaria Alvarez, professor of faculty here at UCSC? [laughter] >> The one. >> Is it epic? >> What? >> Epic. Yeah. Epic. Yeah. Epic. Yeah. >> Okay. So, the reason that we had you all do this, and I know that it can feel sort of like, okay, we're going through all of this again, but this is this is an endless question that we sort of want to posit we there won't be an answer to. And that perhaps a Latina Caribbean musical isn't really a genre or like a thing, but more like it's a field or a spectrum of aesthetics, right? like like our diaspora it can be many things and it doesn't have to be one thing or another like a lot of us right so that's the sort of we want to posit this it's the idea that Latina Caribbean musicals are more like a mixtape that's why this panel is called a scholars mix tape >> scholars mixtape mixing it up >> so we can have many musical influences cultural styles and all the musicals do right I I'd love to hear a little bit more about all the musicals that we're going to hear about if there's anything we need to uh to prep us for that. Um, so what are some of the traditions or musical styles? We already heard a bunch of them. Rua, we heard Oh. Oh, this is a good time for me to point out that Rua made a playlist of all of these songs. And if you scan in your program, there are liner notes for our mixtape. So there are it's called the mixtape the kind of a liner notes. So, if you find that QR code in the program and you scan that, it'll take you to a Google Drive that has a bunch of resources that you can uh look at. There's lists of directors, choreographers, and we invite you to add directors and choreographers to that so people have those resources. And there's also links to Rules mixtape on Spotify and Apple Music. I copied her Spotify into Apple Music and I might have added a few extra things, Rua. So, you can go in there and find that. Uh, but yeah, what are some of the musical styles we might find? Uh, where did Bridget go? Okay. What are some of the musical styles we might find in Latina and Kubri musicals? So, what musical styles? Because again, think about mixtape. Think about again, you're going to look, you're going to hear this, you're going to hear and see four musicals this weekend, and they are very different. >> Coridos. >> All right. Coridos. >> Yes. Coridos. Sasa >> Chango >> punk rock. Yes, there's a whole series of Latino musicals that are punk rock. Y >> Los Sano is working on writing ranchettas right now for a musical. Very excited. Heard I heard Bolero. What else? >> What was that? >> Yes. >> Indones. Yes. Hell yeah. Sorry, I'm a tano. [laughter] >> Um, these are all these are all really great. Yes, there's not any specific one and they can be a mixtape of all of these things like as we know a lot of them do all of these >> traditions >> and so we just got to be aware of that as we're listening to things and uh and those different things can be used for different purposes. I'd love to hear can I ask all the panelists a little bit about the shows that you've been working on this week drama turing and a little of the musical styles that we'll be hearing in them. >> Sure. >> I went off script. Sorry guys, I went off script. >> That was not in our >> I I want to contextualize something to give you Teddy a minute to think about that. So somebody said I'm about to be really boring right now, but I feel like we need to do that. Um >> it's called the scholars mixing so I think it's okay. >> So um when we were talking about the indigenous of it all that is important to contextualize because even though Daphne did say that caveman may be technical or her musical I want to push back a little bit on that because >> on Broadway. >> Yes. But I want even on that I want to contextualize a little bit because the when we talk about the contextualization of Latin and Latin America, we do have to talk about indigenous traditions and also the Africana of it all. And those traditions never really uh separated themselves from music. So something that the Europeans did was that they removed music from the storytelling. Then they added back and they were like, "We're so clever. We totally invented musicals." and um indigenous people and the Africana of it all and even us as Latin American whatever mix you are we never really did that so when we're talking about musicals we have to include a bunch of aesthetics that are not necessarily what we thought think about musicals but they're musical in essence even salsa has like a son so part which is so storytelling and come on so I just want to contextualize that >> no yeah I'm gonna just jump on that too because um the way that we um in order to put this thing back together into a musical, we have to go back to when it was taken apart, which is what you're saying, right? And that music gets disciplined from theater that gets disciplined from dance, right? And we see these in our in our in our study of these practices. And so then they come they actually, you know, if theater is the most collaborative form, musical theater so-called, right, might be the putting back together of these things that have been separated by colonialism, right? So even And even thinking through the the the national traditions, right, the to think and you know and as a no one likes more than stand up and be like, you know, balas, but also these musics have no borders literally and they seep into each other's traditions. And so to answer your question, to bring it back to the question about um Jesse's brilliant um musical Suenos, you hear that all over the place and and how a different um you know, how a different sonic language can drive the storytelling that isn't necessarily about those people in that place, but is is about that mood, right? Um and and also to to also note the way that um you know Andian flutes are working to signal indigenity and the way that El tambour is signaling um pachanga and fun and and and those things also like these sounds um they're part of the storytelling and sometimes stereotypical ways but in sometimes very real necessary energetic ways and I think you hear all of that in Jesse's rancheras estapul Bulco and then you know you bring in the tropicalized sounds that's the kibbe you >> so you will hear that in Jesse's because Jesse's um utilizing um orchestrations and their own tracks but the other musicals I don't know about daydreamer but for iO city and for fruition there's live music and for this festival it was um there was a predominance of the piano or the piano and drums or a looping machine that can create different sounds and makes all these different um instruments that are being created and guitars. And so again, in different musicals you will that you're going to see this weekend, you're going to hear, but you're not going to hear the full capacity of some of these musicals. And so that's one of the reasons why there's that wonderful um QR code where the artists, some of them have put up their orchestrations, some of them have created pitch decks that you can press on and go to their SoundCloud and actually hear the full song in its entity and creation. Um but So when you watch some of these musicals, you might not hear the drums because it's only a piano, but there's an intention of a drum. You might not. So for for example, for Yor City, there's a ton of instruments that are not being presented. You're only going to have a piano and a drum, but you're still going to get the essence of the music um for that specific musical. And then for Fruition, I I don't want to ruin it. It's very special. So you'll see what they're doing because it's live. And so it's Yeah. It It's amazing. So again, like different styles. Um what about Daydreamer? >> Yeah, for Daydreamer it's been Daydreamer is probably of the four pieces the closest to a traditional musical theater style. And it's been really uh an absolute privilege to see the development of this piece over the number of years that they've been working on it and see Eliza and Mario's development into Eliza calls it weird. She's like trying to make the music weird. Um but to experiment with uh more rhythms that are a little more dynamic that she's been growing and building into the piece. It's really cool. Yeah. >> Awesome. Thank you. Thank you. Because I needed that. I like Oh, that's good. Uh fabulous. Yes. So, I I'm gonna pass it to Jade now because I uh I wanted to ask you about Let's talk a little bit about the history in in the United States at least of the Latina and Caribbean musical. Uh just I just want to give a I want to give a shout out. Um I want to give a couple shoutouts actually. I want to give a shout out to Dr. Jorge Werta who was supposed to be on this panel with us. Um you know our our we all stand in a lineage with him. He was my mentor. He is my mentor. Um and and but one of the reasons I want to um and I promise I'll get back on topic. I want to cite Jorge Wuerta is because Jorge comes from a a music musician's family, right? He's the son of a of a mariachi. And I think that um something that this uh Latina musical movement, I'm going to call it in this moment, is trying to um attest to and claim is not just the representation of these musical forms, but is the kind of the representation of how these musical forms, how people use them to make life, right? And how and not just as a profession, but like party and not just as a as a um you know at maybe at a funeral or maybe just in your living room, right? But how these are ways of life. It is not just the dressing on top. And so I think that you know to name how you know to name in the classroom often like who in your family plays music who sits around and sings who sits around and you know h where how did you learn to merge? How did you learn to do that? Was it in the kitchen or was it in a studio or was it in the living room? um you know so these are these are some of the things that I think are trying to be um is part of naming this this you know movement um but I think historically so the other person I want to shout out is Dr. Brian Era and his book Latin Numbers um that really names for us um the you know and also along with um David Roman that names for us that like we've been there like this is none of this is new people have been working laboring in these industries to write to perform to um execute to design all of this right but just in highly invisibleized ways. However, right, however, the um there have been these moments of hyper vvisibility um and what he calls that the Latin number um particularly in midcentury musicals that were and you all know what that is, right? It's the conga line. It's the like the song where now everybody knows it's signaling, you know, spice and dance and fun and probably some sex down the line, right? and that this is part of, you know, this is part of a lot of musicals um that were part of uh enacting the the good neighbor policy like little geopolitics, right, with Latin America. And so, um that these that these um because music is has no borders, right? Because, you know, somebody can pick it up and learn, right? Because because somebody can, you know, make Westside Story never having been to Puerto Rico. um you know these things like you can you can write a Latin number and it can it can make it to the top of the charts and have people singing it and have people dancing it without even knowing its history. So so just to just to contextualize that this is um been there all along the difference is you know who and to what end this kind of representation is happening right because and I think those are the the really important questions you're asking at the top here is like well yes they exist I I did you >> I was just I just wanted to share like I have um in my Latina theater and performance class I love uh when I get to the musical theater section I love showing students that even on Broadway there's been Latina characters dating way back to the early 1900s. >> Oh yeah. >> You know and it's like but if you don't and it was one of the principal characters but they were never played by Latin actors. They were always played by white actors. And so it's always so interesting to recognize that that character is Mexican-American, but there's no acknowledgement of that, but you know that because it's in the script and or it's in their name or it's in the charact, you know, and it's like, but again, so this sort of hiddenenness as well like of choosing to have these numbers or these characters but not choosing to include us yet we're doing the work and have been doing the work for centuries. Teddy. >> Yeah. And and I agree with that. I also want to be more expansive in terms of the again indigenous and African traditions because um something that I I study a lot of the tino people which is the people of the Caribbean it Puerto Rico huba toago etc. And um those traditions those are very musical they're artos and every time I I wish it was a drinking game. I'm I'm reading the the chronics from the Spanish, right? Our white people, they're always like they're telling stories, but we don't understand what they're doing. Like, it's always this lack of understanding of their aesthetics and um that's why we're fighting. And we're putting together this book that David Daphne and I and most of you know that, but >> a lot of you wrote for it >> and yes, and the office hours, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm going to give you a little bit of the background. We put them together because we knew a lot of people were didn't have access to the scholarly writing. But most of the time, I don't know about you too, but in my case, I'm literally convincing people that their stories are worthy and like, hey, we need to put this in writing and document it. Um, and I thought it was going to be like, oh, let me show you Chicago style. No, that was like one office hours that I only So, it's just something that we need to unpack and um and and it's important to also add that to the narrative. Yes. Love that. And on that. Yes. Yes. Golf clap. Golf clap. >> Read the chronicas. The chronicas. It's all in there. >> Thank you. Thank you all. Um yeah. Uh and on that note, um around going back to that question we asked earlier about what makes something uh Latina and Caribbean musical, I want to we want to make sure that we contextualize the idea that something doesn't need XYZ. Deafany, can you talk a little bit about that? >> Yes. So again, when you're watching these musicals, when you're listening to this music, um we one of the things that we want to do is break away from the like a real Latin musical needs X, Y, and Z, right? Or if you've uh grown up and you were embedded in the traditional American musical and you hear some of these musicals, it's like if one musical doesn't sound like the other, it does not mean that it's not a Latin musical. It is still a Latino musical. Um, and so to try to break away from the idea of this definition of a real Latina musical, um, that needs X, Y, and Z, whatever that is. Um, and so we're trying to break away from that and instead think about discussing traditions and aesthetics and does this, where does this sound come from? Oh, how old is this sound? How old is this tradition? Oh, this is centuries old. Oh, this is coming from the African diaspora and it's embedded in Latin culture and the recognition of all of that as we're putting these things together. Um, and to really try to break away from thinking about something like, oh, that doesn't sound Latina enough or that story is not Latina, right? Also to break away from that because again, we have some really interesting stories um that are so diverse in the selections that we went through. And then also looking at the finalists and the honorable mentions, right? So, looking at this whole package of what 15 plays, musicals, um how they are so different and not to put one against the other, not to say one, oh, one's a real musical and the other one isn't. Not to say, oh, that doesn't sound Latin enough, right? To really let go of all of that. Let go of what you might have learned. You might have gotten a degree in musical theater. Let go of what you might have learned this weekend. I cannot stress it enough. And really enjoy what these artists have done because all of the presenting this weekend is Latin and Caribbean. All of it in this entity and its music and its mixture and its recognitions of indigenous work and it recognitions of Afro Latino work and its African diaspora. All of that sort of mixed together and I hope that you can enjoy that and and put that together. Um for example, a salsasa rhythm might communicate um community and coming together and dancing together. A bto might um communicate intimacy, longing, nostalgia, hiphop uh might uh connect people to another diasporic or urban tradition. Broadway um you know might also be listening to tones and sounds that might sound like more Broadway or not, right? But to be like that everything is here and that everything that has been selected is a Latin Caribbean musical. >> Um on that note, tomorrow night after there there's a concert of the finalists and so make sure you you are ready for that. Stay for that as well. Yeah, stay for that and invite you know more people so we have a full audience for that. It would be great if we could. >> Um uh Patrice, do you want to add anything? Because I I've heard you uh talk about this question when you do the festival here at La Hoya and people have made comments literally like this is not Latina enough and you handle it like a pro every time. >> Thank you. Oh, that's so generous of you. Um, the the one that we with the Latinx New Play Festival often get is language and questions about language and questions about um, can a play written in one language or another language uh, be considered in certain categories? And the the real the real like push back that I most often face with um, audience members is that lack of trust. And so oftentimes we see in Latina work um simultaneous translations like door the explorer, right? I'm going to the bus. >> Oh, I forgot bus adob. Sorry. >> Depends what country you're in. [laughter] >> But that instant translation, right? >> Very very like Dora, very very simple. And I think that that need for instant translation often comes from a um a lack of trust on the part of our audiences. And that trust comes over time. That trust comes over like many many years of building relationships with audiences. And I think uh we are very fortunate to be working in the moment that we're working in today where it can be something that um feels like we're along a process. It doesn't feel we're at the beginning point. It doesn't feel like we're anywhere near a place of comfort just yet, but it does seem to be we're making differences and we're making strides. I in even the small of the Latinx New Play Festival. I've recognized the audiences and we've only been running for about seven years, but I've recognized the audiences shifting and being a little more comfortable with understanding that they don't need an instant translation and that they can understand from body language. They can understand from rhythms of music. They can understand from all the bigger nonverbal contextual information that's given in a musical. And I think that's where musicals sort of have a little bit of an advantage because Music can tell you emotions. Music can tell you so much more information about what's going on that I don't need to understand the exact word for bus. I can kind of trust a little bit that I'm going to get the energy and I'm going to get the vibe from what's going around and what I'm hearing sonically beyond words. It exists in this magical space beyond language. >> That is so true. Oh, amen to that. Oh my god. >> Um, >> I want to check on time because I know we have to go to dinner. So, is there someone keeping track? Okay, >> beautiful. Uh, cool. So, really quickly then in uh I'd love Bridget. [laughter] >> Bridget. >> Uh, Bridget. Oh, I'm Bridget RIGHT NOW. >> OH, HI. >> I'M BRIDGET RIGHT NOW. I'm her understudy. [laughter] >> I'd love to get some uh ask the audience a question because I want to again set up our expectations for the weekend. The question is, what makes a musical good? I see somebody over here. >> That's true. That's true. >> That's very true. >> A great book. >> A great book. Well, what makes the book great is my follow-up question. But let's ask someone else. What else? >> A playright. [laughter] >> Great. Anyone else? Absolutely. Yes. I want Yes. Absolutely. Round of applause for that. Oh my god. Uh yes, it is subjective. >> You should repeat what he said for the streams. >> Oh, he said >> how round. Hi. How round? >> Oh yeah. How round? Can you repeat it for us? >> Oh, that is subjective, right? So it depends on how we're looking at it. So the the quality quality is that what you were looking for if it's good or not is subjective. I think that's >> absolutely >> and if you're thinking about um or if you're evaluating a musical using white supremacy culture um folks are going to think oh a strong book a memorable score actors >> you know like good dramatury integration of music and story originality emotional ren you know like structure pacing but again like where did we learn this and who did we learn this from right and so I think that word of subjectivity is so important Yeah, >> because we're coming from different spaces and there are folks who've written a musical who've never been in a musical. There's folks who've never gone to school and written musicals, >> right? And so that's so important to acknowledge and there's folks that can write music um and compose music that have never gone to school. And so also to again try to dismantle these words and this idea of white supremacy culture um as we're watching all of these incredible pieces that people are working on and still developing and still really you know working on creating something that they're proud of and that they love. >> We have another answer over here. Yes, >> it sort of touched on what you said, Dafany, essentially that the experience is authentic, that if the writer is writing about life in Puerto Rico, that they lived in Puerto Rico and that if you have a choreographer that they know the dance because they have danced themselves and they were taught by somebody who also has that lived experience. So authenticity that it be truthful and not well this one person told me no no no that they were taught that they that they've lived the experience to talk about the experience and then write about the experience like you said you know you don't have to be a playright to write a musical or a musician to write a musical you can have lived that experience and write it and create it. >> Yeah. I wanted to sorry >> I really love that Miguel Lan over here is using his castinet to agree. So I would encourage everybody to use your instruments to agree >> just to underscore that that that um comment about it being authentic is what and what I hear as allowing um an expansive definition of what this how to define the a Latinx Caribbean musical because if it's real then it's then that's it right and if it's not then it's not it >> yeah and and >> could be roera >> absolutely and I I wanted to add also with what along of the lines of what you were saying and also So to elevate what Patrice was saying is when we're talking about language is obviously the written word is important but we're talking about the language that we use around the musical then we need to then stop using language that is oppressive right we cannot use the same language of like oh the 11:00 what number or all those things because we're doing something different y'all so we have to then be expensive of the language about the creative process as well. We got to let these actors in. >> Yes. I love I love that all of that. And um I I would add to that that when you're talking about new musicals that have not yet, you know, premiered on Broadway, like if that's not that that's the ultimate goal for anything, but uh for a lot of people, you know, that's that is their dream or whatever, but it we we should also get away from that, y'all. But anyway, [laughter] uh I want to add that we should be looking at musicals specifically and evaluating them based on their potential. Uh you know what is there is there something in there like ah like you said the authenticity when you see something I used to have a friend sorry I'm going off script here but I used to have a friend who said oh I I could fall in love with any girl it don't matter it doesn't matter I'll find something about every single one that's beautiful. Oh, her elbow is magnificent. That's what he used to say. And I think if we can find the elbow, the magnificent elbow in the musical, then it's worth putting the money, like you said, it takes money. I I heard you say it takes money, right? It's hard to develop musicals without money. And that's why this intervention was was created essentially. Thank you to uh for that. Uh does anyone else want to add to that? >> Did your friend really say elbow or something else? >> He said elbow. [laughter] I think >> I I would add time. >> I think what makes a good musical is time. I think >> it's it is theater is a uniquely collaborative art form. It is something that even with a solo solo show you can't do alone, right? You can't be the only person on the stage and have no person in the audience. Like it just that's it's not a play. That's like just talking to yourself in a room. Um but theater itself is a uniquely collaborative form. A musical is even more collaborative on top of that. And it just takes time to be able to create something that requires so many parts that goes that go into making it. It's something that being in the process in the room with the artists this past week has been really cool to see that you change one tiny little thread. I just want to change this one note. one note requires the music director to the composer to go back into their like uh electronic system that they do um to change the note and then that has to go to the music director and then that has to go to the actor who's then Gretz and also we have to vet it through the director and also have the drama have thoughts and and it's so many pieces that take time and collaboration but that is the beauty of the musical theater art form is that it's not just one voice singing alone alone. It's always so many artists contributing, so many team members coming together to create this beautiful thing. A musical is always a tapestry. A musical is always multiple threads coming together to weave into this beautiful new thing. We have another answer out here in the house. >> Oh, hi. Um, to kind of popcorn off what people have been saying, a word that popped up on my my mind was trust. And first off to trust yourself, trust what the story is about and to trust that that that's good enough because I think sometimes we like to compare and I feel like often times in new work we don't always trust ourselves but we have to trust who's with us. Trust that it's the right note and then also from an audience standpoint trust this new uh trust the musical to give yourself over to it and to allow you to feel this experience. >> Thank you. And going back also to something Teddy was saying, when you're acknowledging indigenous traditions, when you're acknowledging traditions from the African diaspora, there's a different structure to writing and a different structure to storytelling than what we might have been taught in certain spaces. And so even sometimes when you're presenting your music and sharing your music in certain spaces, um folks are not going to get it because they're used to what they've been taught. And so to trust yourself that what you're writing, what you're composing, what you are creating, you know, it is it is you know what you're doing. You are the expert in the story that you are creating and putting together and bringing in that team that can help uplift it and bring it to creation. >> I love that. And yes and and also thank you thank you John for bringing up trust because um precisely to that point I think because these are forms many of these are forms not all of them but many of the forms if and when and many of the forms even if they're have all these other traditions layered up through them but if you go back many of these are very very very old forms that have their own um ways of arranging us and wisdoms that that are that are cosmological um functions right organizes us music and dance and yes dance right because I'm gonna shout out if there's no dance there's no music and dance arrange us right and so these to trust the forms themselves that they have something to say that these energies will carry the story in that way which then also is a responsibility to the forms also right and to study and to sit with even as we create magnificent new things. >> I have another person from the audience. >> Hi. Yeah, I wanted to affir that I think to me what makes uh a musical like a good musical good is that there's like a specificity of intention uh that matches the specificity of expression of that musical. And so I do think that there can be subjectivity, but I also do think that an audience can like can really feel when that those two specificities match because then that creates a really specific experience for them. And that's where like I think we can appreciate musicals even if you if we don't like if they're not our taste. And so that's where I would separate like craft from taste maybe. >> That's beautifully said. Thank you. Craft versus taste. And that is really what our drama tur I think aspire to do when they're in the room. Uh is to find out the intention and then to make sure the expression matches that intention. If you'll I don't know if you want to expand on any of that but that's great. >> I worked on two shows this entire week. Yes. And prior because the same thing when you when you come in and you're doing this presentation it's a 29 hour workshop and there's all these elements that we just mentioned. Look at our faces. Right. And all these um musicals come with all of these songs and these artists are some of them discovering the music for the first time on Monday and having to learn 30ome songs and present them today for you, right? And that's that's really hard and it's incredible what everyone has done this week. And so I think for some of us um what we've done as drama Turks is we've been working on the books prior to coming here so that we could bring those stories and then we could have that focus and emphasis on the music. I know that I spent um at least a month working with two different creative teams and working on the book and talking about it and intentions so that when you come here and you only have 29 hours, you can be like, "Okay, we're going to focus on this." So, because we've already focused on this prior to even coming here, we have another answer from the audience. I also feel like in this world of like everyone online has their takes and everyone's a critic and I'm from the world of I come from LA in the film world, sorry, and everyone has their everyone has their letter boxed reviews of everything. I think if you took the time and put your blood, sweat, tears, passion, had to go to therapy for your story and told a story with songs that has a beginning, middle, and end, you're better than all those fools. And you wrote a good musical. And I will say this because I live in LA and I've direct in LA. Those critics in LA, for the exception of one or two, some of them have never studied theater and they don't read theater. So, but yet they're critiquing theater because I it's been very interesting to experience that. So, you know, at the critics, >> I love that. And I would even challenge, does it need to have a beginning, middle, and end? Can it be circular? Can it be other forms? Can it, you know, can it be interactive? I just want to throw those out there. >> Can it be a loop? >> Can Yeah, a strange loop. Uh, [laughter] >> fruition is a loop. >> Okay. I can't wait to see. That's good context. Thank you for that context. Can't wait to see it. I want to go back to you quoted, right? And he had I don't know how many of you know he wrote a musical with Fornes and and no one has a copy of the script that I know of. I've been looking for it for years. So, if you can track it down, please please uh send it to me. [laughter] And uh I don't know if we have time for questions. >> We wanted to see if anyone had any questions and at least give a little you know we've been speaking for about an hour. If anyone has one or two questions. Yes. Look at that. >> Oh wow. There are. Okay. >> We got about five. >> Just because our crew needs to go on break. >> Hi. In a world of all of the submissions and like submitting your musical and your new works, how do you combat the question of Why should this exist and why now? >> I mean, Patrice and I read all of the plays that submitted for this festival and I could say that every single one of them needs to be written and is has been written and needs to be written and needs to exist. They were all so different and so many of them told so many different stories. I'm like I'm sitting here and Patrice please um like I can't think of any that I was like uh I already know this like I I can't out of like almost 60 entries. I I can't I can't even I'm trying to recall I don't even think we had that discussion from literally reading all these musicals and listening to music. I don't think there was one that I that I don't think and so to me that tells me they they all need to exist. I think each time you hear like a message of critique. It's often important to to hear what they're saying, but also hear what they're not saying, right? Like in when they're giving you a comment, is it a comment for you or is it a comment that they are expressing from inside outside? Um, so that question of like why does this need to even exist? Like gosh, what a goofy question. Like it needs to exist because it exists because like an artist had an impulse and we followed it through to create this thing. It's sort of a moot question. Like not to dismiss like the feelings and like the reaction that that must have created for an artist, but like it's it's like an unanswerable question because it ex it exists because it exists because it has to be told. And that's the beauty of art. And it's it's a really hard task to do to set that aside to not let that be something that seeps in and becomes deep. But honestly, like I would encourage you to like put that in another space. The fact that you wanted to tell this story is the reason it should be told. And I want you to also remember that people are judging your story based on their own white supremacy cultural concepts that have been taught about musicals. And if you study musical theater, it's very racist. Musical theater is very racist. Like the American musical theater, right? But if you go back to indigenous traditions, you go back to the African diaspora and you include those traditions which have consistently non-stop been creating music and storytelling, we're looking at different parallels. And so hopefully um one of the things David Teddy and I are trying to do with this anthology that we're gonna be writing that everyone's contributing to in the panel which is exciting and a whole bunch of people in the space are as well is to try to amplify this definition of what is an American musical right because if we are talking about all these genres all these of music that we're writing different structures different ways of storytelling um maybe we need to look back at this but we're all American Right. And also if we are born in Latin America, we're also American, >> right? Let's not forget that if you're Peruvian, you're also American, right? And so like what does can we expand and change this definition to be inclusive of all of us because we are also American and we're also writing musicals. >> Yeah. I don't think that person has the cultural alignment that you need because if you're talking about the ancestry that we have, the storytellers were people that our ancestors really believe that the universe gave them stories for them to tell them. They were sacred in most of our uh cultures. So none of our stories are not sacred by definition. So >> love that. I think to segue from the musical, what we classify it as a musical is we get so many Latino plays that are play considered plays but with music. So your conversation around that where we have like Kiote which has a lot of music that intersperses through through the show and >> those are in the book too. I want to >> Okay. Yeah. So like when you're approaching a program like this, how you're picking what is a play with music versus a musical, >> the difference usually I think in terms of like producing the difference is money and like what kind of resources are needed to produce this piece. How much time is it going to take to learn music and how much additional rehearsal hours would it need to be devoted to that? So like from the perspective of a produ of a producer, what resources are needed so that I can ensure that this thing is going to live in its fullest expansiveness, not as a like um barrier or roadblock, but really as like a fully comprehensive understanding of what are the pieces that need to go into this to make this successful. And it's it's again like sort of um a fictional division between play play with musical because it is a spectrum. It's entirely a spectrum. But really it's what kind of contract is it going to be on and how does that relate to the resources that need to go into supporting it. >> And one of the plays at the festival is playing with that notion of starting as a play with music and then becoming a musical. Yeah. >> Right. And within the music itself. And so they're still exploring that. And so I love that you asked this because one of the musicals that was picked is exploring that concept in itself. >> Yes. Amazing. Thank you. I I want to we got to wrap up because we all need to grab a bite before the show starts really soon. Uh so thank you all. And I just want to review really quickly some questions to consider as you're watching shows this weekend. Um instead of is this good or bad? Is you know, etc. is this Latina and Caribbean or not? Think of what traditions are in conversation. What is the artist trying to do? What is artist trying to say? Who is making this? What does what does this musical assume I know? Because as we're talking about Broadway, right? There's a lot of shared knowledge around certain types and styles of Broadway that we also have our own. And what am I bringing with me in my own expectations, right? and challenge being not being scared to challenge ourselves and our own expectations right so it's uh I'm giving you all that sort of mission and I want to thank you all for joining us these amazing scholars thank you Dr. Secret Dr. Aean Dr. Powers with the mayor and Dr. Rodriguez. Thank you