Serving Locally, with Michelle: SMART Recovery

Welcome to Serving Locally with me, your host, Michelle Dynes. The podcast where we spotlight service in the Longmont and surrounding communities. All right, let's connect. >> [music] [music] >> Hi, welcome to today's episode of Serving Locally. Today I'm here with John Franco of SMART Recovery. So we'll just start with who are you and what is SMART Recovery in a quick overview? >> Okay, well thank you for that introduction, Michelle. Uh I am a SMART Recovery volunteer. And I am also trained to facilitate meetings for SMART Recovery. In that vein, I facilitate meetings for people who are in recovery from various substance abuse issues as well as perhaps other maladaptive behaviors. I also facilitate meetings for the family and friends of those people. Uh additionally, for SMART I am a volunteer support coordinator and I cover the area of Denver and the surrounding community. So Longmont, Boulder, et cetera, and probably all the way down to Colorado Springs. And >> It's a lot of space for one man. >> It is a lot of space for one man. Uh So uh there are approximately 40 meetings in Colorado in 18 different communities. And [snorts] uh some of them are actually most of them are public. Some of them are a few of them are private because they're held at treatment facilities. >> Mhm. >> But, they uh they're either online or in-person meetings. There are more in-person meetings that are uh available. Uh SMART uh has a very wide reach. In fact, SMART is part of SMART Recovery International, which has a global reach. Uh so, we are present in addition to the United States, we're present in Germany, Ireland, Australia, uh just you name it, and we're probably there either in- person, face-to-face, or online. So, I believe that in total, the organization SMART Recovery International holds around 3,000 meetings a week. >> Wow. >> Of different types. >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, that is a fairly large reach. >> Is it When you say group it When you say meetings, are they're one-on-one? It's not groups, correct? >> No, they are group meetings. They are all peer uh support group meetings. The one of the real values in SMART is the fact that people get to sit down with people who have other people who have similar issues, uh similar problems, similar behaviors. And, uh that that's part of what makes SMART work. >> Right. Um Can you Can you tell me what SMART stands for or >> Sure. Uh SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training. And, that's a little bit of a mouthful, but it really talks to the essence of what SMART is. >> Yeah. >> Because self-management means that you are managing your own behaviors. You are managing your own choices and so forth. >> for it. >> Exactly. >> Yes. >> And we'll get into that a little bit deeper, I'm sure, as as we go on. And the recovery training part is also interesting because we have tools and techniques, and part of what we do is try to help people facilitate learning, if you will. >> Right. >> Help people learn how to use those tools and techniques so that when they run into an issue or problem in their lives, they're able to pull a tool out of that old toolbox and hopefully address their problem and solve it. So, yep, it's work. Self-management recovery training. >> That's wonderful. What is your focus at SMART Recovery? >> So, our focus is really on helping people who are dealing with issues that are uh uh often problems with substance use, such as alcohol, uh opiates, uh methamphetamines, marijuana, you name it. There's probably a way to become addicted to it. >> Do you gambling and stuff, too? Or is it just substance? >> that's yes, we do gambling as well. Uh we uh kind of group that under behaviors. >> Mhm. Okay. >> So, that could include gambling, that could include sexual activity, uh gaming, >> scrolling, >> Mhm. >> any number of things like that. And our tools are designed to help with those kinds of uh uh maladaptive behaviors as well, uh to the extent that they get out of control. Uh one of the other behaviors that we deal with, for example, is eating. >> Mhm. >> Uh there are people with eating disorders. Well, think about it for a second. It's difficult to really deal with eating because everybody has to eat. And sex is the same way. It's just a part of who we are as human beings. >> Right. >> So, there is an element of control that we think people can achieve by using the SMART tools so that they're able to keep those behaviors from getting out of control. Uh another really important point is that SMART can also be very useful for families and friends of the people with these addictive behaviors, whether it's drug use or other behaviors and activities and things like that. Uh we have a whole program that is designed to help with family and friends, and I'm sure we'll get into that a little bit later, Tim. >> more excited. That's the probably the most exciting thing about your guys's is program is that that piece. So, I'm excited to talk about it. >> Super. >> It sounds like a lot. How can SMART help with all of those things? >> Well, uh basically SMART believes that change is possible in anybody. >> Mhm. >> And uh when we take a look at our behaviors and we start believing that we can change, we we basically take on the power to change. >> Right. >> Uh sometimes people need to be shown that they can change and they can do that by examining their behaviors and things like that. So, behaviors can be changed, habits can be changed, pretty much whatever we want as long as whoever is involved is motivated to actually do it. >> Right. >> Uh and that is where SMART comes in. Because uh we believe it's self-empowerment. We do not believe that people are powerless. >> Mhm. >> We believe in uh that people can examine things, as I said, and make whatever changes they choose to make. Uh through our peer support group meetings, participants find out that they're not alone. There are other people who suffer from the same issues, the same problems, and so on. They also discover that there are other people in the meetings that typically are already on their way to achieving their goals. Exactly. >> Or they're just above somebody and they can help them. And there's no better way to learn something than to teach it. I love that model of helping each other in our different progressions. >> Exactly. Exactly. And that is what we do. Uh so participants see others make that progress, and they realize that they could do it themselves. All of our tools and techniques and we now in our updated version of training, it's SMART, we have 23 different tools and techniques that are in our new handbook. And uh that facilitators will bring out and use in various peer support meetings. So, that's fantastic. All of these tools are geared around our flagship 4-Point Program. Creating >> Mhm. >> motivation and maintaining it. Coping with urges and cravings. Managing thoughts, feelings, and behaviors. And living a balanced lifestyle, which we believe is very important. Uh so since we're talking about tools, I thought maybe I would describe one of them. >> Perfect. >> Oh, I love that. >> Out of 23, I'm glad you can give us one. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. So, uh one of the tools that we uh use to help with motivation is called a hierarchy of values. >> Mhm. >> And that could be done individually. Uh sometimes we do it as a group because it again helps people see that they're not alone. So, the way we do hierarchy of values is we say, "Let's brainstorm all the things that are important to us in our lives." And you know, here in Colorado, it could be bouldering, it could be mountain climbing, it could be hiking. It could include family, it could include friends, it could include any number of things. It could also include virtues. >> Mhm. >> And it's brainstorming cuz we're not judging them, we're just tossing it about and go it from there. And then [snorts] we ask people to pick their five most important values and rank them in order, 1 through 5. And you know, the interesting thing is in that is that people often come up with the same answers. >> Mhm. >> Uh not totally, but for example, my spouse, my children, my career, >> Mhm. >> my uh integrity. >> Mhm. >> Could be any whatever it is. But so when we have the five most important things out there, that we could also say, uh "Where does your problematic behavior fit in in the scheme of those things?" Can you really be giving all of the time and attention and piece of your heart to those things when you're under the influence or >> Right. >> when you're in the casino or whatever. So, that's a uh we found that hierarchy of values to be a pretty great motivator to help people realize, "Oh my gosh." And that also sometimes results in an aha moment. >> Mhm. Mhm. Definitely. What makes the work of SMART different than other similar serving organizations? >> Great question. Uh probably one of the biggest things is that SMART is based on science. >> Mhm. >> So, it is the uh there is a science to recovery and change. Uh so, if we to use an example, uh if we use this form of therapy and we think about a life event that occurred, and when that life event occurred, it brought of us to us, it resulted in a set of feelings, and it may have resulted also in a set of actions. >> Right. >> With the rational emotive behavior therapy science that we use, if we reinterpret that life event, and perhaps look at it differently, it could result in different feelings, which can then result in different actions. And so, that is what REBT is, and that is one of the foundations of SMART Recovery. We think that's that is a key difference. Uh So, as the philosopher Epictetus centuries ago said, "People are disturbed not by events, but by their views of events." >> Mhm. Ooh, that's good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so, because uh we're based on science, SMART stays on top of the science. SMART is always looking at what are other programs doing. What are the uh psychologists doing and so on. So, we're making changes to the program as time goes along. So, we're staying up to date. Our manuals change. Our training change. And uh and we just keep moving along that way. So, uh that's a difference. Uh we are secular. >> Mhm. >> Uh we're in that is an important thing for some people. >> Mhm. >> Not for everybody, but that's okay. Uh we just don't force anything on anybody. You could believe what you want to believe. We just don't push things. Uh we also believe in self-empowerment, as I said earlier, and we think that's important. Uh it's it's not like anybody is forced to do anything. You decide. You choose. Uh and we don't use labels. Uh SMART believes uh we don't use labels like addict. >> Oh, okay. >> Or gambler or >> Okay. >> whatever you want to say. Uh SMART >> that makes you what that is. >> Yes. >> Yes, it does. >> Yeah. >> You're a person. >> Yeah, exactly. We believe that people >> issues. >> Yeah. We believe that people are humans and they uh they're not identified by their behaviors. They're more than that. >> Mhm. >> So, that's a that's another uh piece. Uh another distinguishing point for SMART, which I've already mentioned a couple times, is uh that people do make their own choices and they set their own goals and that's important. They may choose they may have a uh substance use issue, for example, and they may decide that their goal is abstinence. They may decide their goal is moderation. >> Mhm. >> They may decide that they have two different maladaptive behaviors, but they're only going to address one of them. And that's their choice. And whatever it is, that's fine. Our tools work. They could use the whatever tools they like as we move along, and they could achieve their goals. They may decide to change their goals midstream. That's fine, too. >> Yeah. It's all about you do you. >> Right. >> So, that's uh uh that that's another unique thing, I guess. And now, that brings me to another tool. And uh since I know that you like tools, >> I like [laughter] to maybe talk about that. >> Perfect. >> We have a tool that we call the cost-benefit analysis. >> Okay. >> And it doesn't involve numbers. >> Okay. >> Which makes it really good. >> [laughter] >> It's easier to understand. So, one of the uh things that we do occasionally at the meetings is we do a cost-benefit analysis as a group, but people are also encouraged to do it on their own as individuals uh because it can be different for everybody. So, we start off with what are the benefits of this behavior or this substance use to you? What are the benefits to you? >> Or that you perceive. >> Yeah, exactly. [laughter] So, uh often, some of the answers are the same. It will relieve stress. >> Mhm. >> Uh it will relieve my social anxiety. Uh I can be with friends who are the same as me. >> I fit in. >> I can dance better. >> Yeah. >> social lubricant, whatever you want to call it. Uh but there are a variety of benefits and there have to be benefits that people perceive, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. >> Exactly. >> So, yeah. So, uh there's they could list the benefits and then we could turn the discussion over to So, now what are the costs of those things? And people start looking at the cost, they could see, well, perhaps it is damaging my relationship with my spouse or partner. >> Those values. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Perhaps it is damaging my health. >> Mhm. >> Uh perhaps I am uh breaking relationships because I'm borrowing money that I will never pay back. Perhaps I'm going to get in trouble with the law. Perhaps I've already gotten in trouble with the law. I mean, there are so many costs or potential costs out there that uh it's incredible. When we do this as a group, people are astounded by the numbers of costs uh and benefits that are out there. And then we turn the discussion to Now, take a look at those benefits. Are those benefits short-term >> Right. >> or long-term? >> Right. >> And >> the costs, too. >> Exactly. So, what they find out is that the benefits are all short-term. They last today or tonight. >> Yeah. >> And then they're gone and you're back with the same stress that you had, the same social anxiety. You still can't dance, whatever. It's the whole bit. If they look at the costs, except for possibly a hangover, >> Mhm. >> they find out that the costs are all long-term. >> Very expensive. >> Yes, and it requires significant rebuilding of relationships, significant effort to really overcome some of those things. And some of them, like health, can't necessarily be overcome. >> Right. >> So, that is an interesting exercise that we do as well, the cost-benefit analysis. It's one of my faves. >> It's a good one. It's very good. >> Uh So, uh I'll just look at it by notes to see where I am here. I think what I want to do, if we can, is I'd also like to uh talk about what recovery is from Sparks' standpoint. >> Okay. >> And in our view, recovery is more than sobriety. >> Mhm. >> It's more than stopping gambling or whatever other issue there is. We believe that recovery is recovering your whole life. >> Mhm. >> And so we think about what does that mean? That basically says, I'd like to take my life back to where I was before I started doing this stuff. I'd like to be spending the appropriate amount of time and effort with my kids. I'd like to get back into that rock climbing hobby that I had and enjoyed. Uh I'd like to rebuild and enjoy relationships that were once gone, but now maybe I could get back. So, maybe I want to be at peak performance at my job. So, there's so many things that are part of life. So, stopping certain behaviors uh gives us the room and rekindles our motivation to do those things and balance that life. That's what recovery really is in my opinion, for sure. >> That's awesome. >> Yeah. We really like that. Uh A really important uh point that I want to discuss is what we talked about a little bit earlier, family and friends. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So >> Help us. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> I understand. Yeah. >> I think that's just key is that you don't know. It's so close and you can't When you're that close, you you can't be, but how how can we be? So that's that's wonderful. So yeah, go ahead and touch on that. >> Yes. Yes. >> Touch on that a lot. >> [laughter] >> Well, you know, we hear a lot about recovery services >> Mhm. >> all over the place. >> Mhm. >> We hear a lot less about family and friends support. >> Yes. >> So uh I think that tragically family and friends are an underserved community and isolated to a certain extent because when we think about it, they don't necessarily want to talk about their loved ones. >> It's not my business. >> [laughter] >> Exactly. They may be humiliated by it or embarrassed by it or something like that, which is which is bogus. >> to make that person's recovery worse. >> Yeah. So there are things like that. They may be embarrassed. They may keep secrets as we talked about that and as a result they may isolate and that's that's horrible. Uh so they may try to help >> Mhm. >> and they may do things like loan money >> Mhm. >> or call in to work and say, "Oh, my loved one can't come in today because they're not feeling well." Well, that they're in bed with a hangover. Uh they may do all sorts of excuses for their loved one. They may allow them to live under their roof using drugs or other substances >> Right. >> that they don't agree with and uh but people can be taken advantage of especially where love is concerned. >> Right. >> So uh I call this on helpful help. >> Mhm, very. >> Yeah. So, often though, it's it's with the best of intentions. They're trying to do what they can to help. Uh, >> I'd rather you be in my home than on the street. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, because it's going to be safer and all that kind of thing. It's all done to shield that loved one from what would be the natural outcome of whatever their addiction or their behavior is. >> Right. >> And So, that's fine, but that's not necessarily helpful. >> Right. >> So, uh, our family and friends program is based on the same science that our recovery program is. And that is, you can change. You can change the way you respond to your loved one and uh, make changes so that your life is better. So, that can include things like changing the way, uh, you respond as I said. It could be, uh, love, understanding, and support, and things like that. Not necessarily agreeing, but understanding and listening. Those are helpful things. It can get all the way down to setting boundaries. >> Mhm. >> Which is tough to do with family. But they can set boundaries and they can also say, "No." And sometimes that's what happens. Sometimes that's what happens has to happen. >> It's called tough love. >> Uh, yeah. We don't [clears throat] We don't like calling it tough love. Uh, although that's a really common term. >> Yes. >> But it sounds like punishment. >> Oh. >> In a way. >> Okay. >> way. >> Okay. So, what would you guys then refer to it as? >> Uh, >> Just love. >> Well, we like to think that family and friends is supporting the family and helping the family. And uh in the end what what we hope is going to happen is that is going to influence our loved one to see that these other people were maybe right. >> Mhm. >> Uh but our focus at Families and Friends is on the Families and Friends. Often though, that loved one is going to see changes. >> Mhm. >> And when they start to see changes, they're going to start questioning their own behavior. It is as you say, to a certain extent tough. >> Yeah. >> It's hard to tell somebody they can't live with you anymore. They're going to have to couch surf wherever they can find a couch. Uh but it is what it is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And and they're doing it to protect the family. And they might be doing it to protect other children. Uh or other relatives or whatever. So, that's sort of uh that's sort of where that goes. But we hope that the Families and Friends can lead happier can lead happier and more fulfilling lives as a result. >> Yeah, for sure. >> And at same time, influence that loved one. >> The influence. I like that. >> Yeah. >> Influence. Um so, how does this work? What does a typical meeting look like then? >> Well, a typical meeting uh well, they're all peer support meetings and they're all led by a trained facilitator. Put that out there. Uh basically, people come together and most meetings are about 90 minutes. There are some that are 60. But uh people come together and when the meeting starts, everybody is welcomed. Uh we like to make it a friendly and casual environment. And uh people will often introduce themselves. Sometimes they exchange contact information after they know each other for a while, things like that. But the meeting starts with uh opening guidelines. And that is just referred to things like confidentiality, >> Mhm. >> being respectful. >> Mhm. >> Uh we remind people that we don't give advice. What we do is we share what worked for us. And that is usually pretty helpful. Uh and then we will go on to a uh uh check-in. And that's where people are invited to talk about what happened in the since their last meeting. So, they could be sharing successes that they had. They could be sharing challenges that they had and how they overcame them. Or they could be sharing challenges that they didn't know how to overcome. >> Mhm. >> And they may even ask for help from other folks. And the facilitator helps to guide that kind of a discussion. Uh so people can check in if they want to. They don't have to check in. They can pass. I am surprised by the number of times I've been in a meeting where somebody decides to check in and they'll simply say, "I didn't plan on talking tonight, but now I feel like it." >> Mhm. >> Because they've heard other people, they understand it's a welcoming environment, and so on. So, we do the check-in. And then the uh facilitator will either choose a tool to talk about and discuss, and maybe work with the group if it's an exercise or something like that. Or they may during the check-in have heard a theme. >> Mhm. >> And maybe that theme is worth a discussion by itself. >> Right. >> And so it's the facilitator's choice of how to do it. And so uh we try to do what it what we think is going to be most helpful for the group. And that's that usually works out uh pretty well. And then at the end when the discussion is done or the topic is done or so on and we're maybe done in the last 10 or 15 minutes we do what we call a check-out. >> Mhm. >> And a check-out is basically what did you what will you take away from the meeting? Was there a particular nugget that spoke to you? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, what resonated, that kind of thing. Not everybody does a check-out. Some people are still sort of ruminating on what they heard, what happened, how does it apply and stuff like that. But it's a chance to close down the meeting. And uh then the meeting ends. We typically pass a hat for donations. Uh we we have expenses for Zoom meetings and we make copies to hand out and stuff like that that we have to pay for, but nobody has to donate. The meetings are totally free. So, just no issues there. >> That's great. >> So, that's the meeting. >> Um you just touched on it, but what are your greatest needs? >> Well, uh we're actually doing it right now. >> Yes. >> That is getting the word out. >> Mhm. >> We believe, I believe that uh SMART Recovery is certainly less known than some of the other recovery programs that are out there. >> [snorts] >> And that is somewhat because it's newer. Uh SMART was started in 1994. Uh a lot of the other programs were started in the early earlier 1900s. >> Okay. >> So, uh and uh So, a lot of Not a lot of people necessarily know about SMART. So, getting the word out is important. Since we're a nonprofit, we can't spend a whole lot of money on advertising and things like that. But, I believe that if more people knew about SMART, then what would happen is we would help them lead richer and more fulfilling lives. We would help to combat the opioid and drug epidemic that's going on. >> Yes. >> We would potentially save lives. We could also help families by helping them to rebuild relationships that maybe got broken in the process of the addiction. Uh just There's so much potential there once people realize that they can make these changes and that there's a program that's out there and ready to help them do it. >> That's That's wonderful. Do you have any events coming up or volunteer opportunities? >> We do. Uh first, uh SMART I'll dive into the details just a little bit later, but SMART Recovery meetings are held here in Longmont uh at uh Recovery Cafe. >> Okay. >> 402 Kimbark and at A Way Forward, which is at 600 Terry Street. >> So, I've had both of them on the podcast before. >> Oh, that's great. >> Yes. >> Good. >> [laughter] >> Yeah. So, uh SMART Recovery is there and they participate in a lot of local events like uh Unity in the Community. >> that's where I met you. >> That's exactly right. I remember that day. We will be We also have a meeting, by the way, in Boulder at Foothills Hospital. >> Okay. >> And uh that is on Riverbend Road in Boulder. Uh we have Family and Friends meetings and Recovery meetings at all three of those local locations. >> Good. >> We also have similar meetings, several of them, in Denver. >> Mhm. >> So, that's that's available, too. Uh you asked about uh volunteers, and most of our volunteers decide to join SMART uh after having dealt with these kinds of issues on their road, whether it's with family and friends, or personally with recovery issues, or behavior changes that they wanted to make. They take the training. Uh we actually recommend taking the training, whether you have this issue or not. Uh I personally took the training, with no intention to become a facilitator. >> Mhm. >> I took the training because I wanted to learn. >> Mhm. >> Because [clears throat] I had a loved one that had a problem, and I wanted I thought, "Well, if I learn it, then I'll be able to help as much as possible." >> Right. >> Because I know the system. I know how it works, and all that kind of thing. So, a lot of people benefit from just taking the training. >> Absolutely. >> And the training uh right now is only $49. >> Wow. >> So, it's self-paced, it's online. Uh it's really an easy thing to do. >> And you learn all 23 tools? >> Pardon me? >> You learn all 23 tools there? >> Actually, the train the training itself is more about the SMART program. >> Okay. >> About choices, and people setting their own goals about the issues of moderation, harm reduction, abstinence, and those kinds of things. The tools are all described in our handbook. >> Okay. >> And uh so, we feel that a lot of the learning actually comes after you take the class, when you start looking at the handbook, and reading, and understanding, yeah, and working with people. >> Absolutely. >> Yes. So, >> The same same model with everybody there. >> Yeah, exactly. So, uh And we always love to have more volunteers because if we have more volunteer facilitators, then we could also have more meetings. >> Right. >> And if you think about the area that we're in here, >> Mhm. >> we have Longmont, we have Boulder. >> Then you got to go down to Denver. >> Yeah. >> But we have a lot of small lot smaller communities, a lot of other communities around here that are a little smaller than Denver that could also benefit from meetings. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Lafayette, Louisville, Broomfield, you name it. >> Yeah. >> So, uh Yeah, that's uh that's kind of where we are there. >> Wonderful. Um is there anything else you would like to add? >> Well, yes. Uh uh First of all, for more information, people could go to smartrecovery.org. >> And at smartrecovery.org, they can find out everything they need to know. There is a meeting finder out there that they can put in their location and what type of meeting they're looking for, and they can find it and where it's located, whether it's online or in person. All the pertinent information is out there. Uh So, that's something they could do. And they can also email me. >> Okay. >> I'm happy to take uh emails. My email is j o h n g e o s m a r t at gmail.com. That's John geo smart at gmail.com. And if people want to phone me, that's fine. Sometimes I get questions about what is the meeting really like, will it help, and all those kinds of things. Happy to take calls. My phone number is 503 348 8360. >> And I will put that in the show notes and everything, of course. It'll be on the QR code, so they can look it up there as well. >> Absolutely. And the final thing that I would like to add is to thank you because what you're doing here is a real service to Longmont, and I really appreciate the opportunity to get the word out. >> Thank you. I appreciate that. That's it's definitely a passion project for us. >> It does sound like [laughter] it. >> Um then my final question for you would be what does service mean to you, John? >> It's a really good question. Uh I am a very big believer in volunteering. I feel like I have certain skills and trainings and things like that that I can give people the benefit of. So, I have volunteered in a number of roles at the various places that I've lived. Uh I try to connect with people. I am trying all the time to be more empathetic and understand what's going on in people's lives and figuring out ways that they could be helped. I look at volunteering as a big way to give back because I've lived a really good life. I feel privileged. I would like to do what I can to give that back in whatever ways I can. So, I've I can't even list the number of volunteer jobs I've had as I've moved from time to time in different communities. But, that to me is what service is. >> It's wonderful. It's a great answer. Thank you so much for everything that you do to help and your heart for for to do this not just for the the people that are struggling but for the people that are loving those people that are struggling and how to help them. I think that is just that is it's a huge underserved and overlooked thing is to help the families and the friends that we don't even know what to do to help. So that's that's absolutely amazing and I appreciate that. So thank you so much for all that you do and for being on the show. >> And thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. Anytime. Thank you to my guests, my listeners, and my supporters. Serving together, we can strengthen our community. Please like and subscribe. Do all those other things. You know you got to do them. Because that's the easiest way that you can serve right now. All right. Now go. Connect with others and be a blessing. >> I want to find you for this moment. We can get it around tonight.