Video summary
The core argument presented in this discussion challenges the conventional wisdom that self-belief must precede ability, asserting instead that belief is a prerequisite for action and success. The speakers illustrate this with examples such as the founder of Four Seasons Hotels, who was initially dismissed by Chris because he lacked money or experience; however, his dream to build a collection of great hotels drove him forward before external validation arrived. Similarly, Elon Musk's early attempts to buy rockets were met with ridicule from those in lower Earth orbit and even hostility from Russia, yet his unwavering belief that humanity should colonize Mars eventually led SpaceX to prove the concept possible. The dialogue emphasizes that while one must perform the necessary work to achieve goals, waiting for external encouragement or validation is impossible; true progress begins when an individual believes they can do something valuable before proving it through action. A significant portion of the conversation addresses the nuance between self-belief and impostor syndrome, with Chris admitting he was once a "poster boy" for severe self-doubt despite his achievements. He explains that while he could believe in his ability to execute tasks well and enjoy them daily, he often doubted whether those efforts would lead to tangible outcomes or success recognized by others. Over time, however, this doubt evaporated not through conscious reframing but because it was crushed under the weight of overwhelming evidence from repeated successes. Chris notes that many people struggle with an epidemic of self-doubt rather than arrogance, and he encourages listeners to read biographies of figures like Steve Jobs or Elon Musk not just for inspiration, but to see their own flaws reflected in these giants' struggles. This realization helps normalize the experience of uncertainty and reduces feelings of inadequacy when facing challenges. The speakers also explore the concept of "inverse charisma," suggesting that one does not need to be inherently interesting or charismatic to connect with others; instead, they should focus on making other people feel like the most interesting individuals in the room. This idea is likened to Winston Churchill's wife, who felt she was the smartest person after dining with his opponent but realized he made her feel that way by being deeply interested in what had to say. Chris and David agree that we do not fall in love with perfect people but rather those whose shortcomings mirror our own, such as seeing a version of oneself in Kobe Bryant's uncertainty before an injury or Chris Bumstead's emotional moments on stage. By focusing on serving others and validating their experiences, individuals can build genuine connections without needing to constantly prove their own worthiness or competence. Throughout the discussion, there is a recurring theme regarding the value of service and contribution over personal validation. David argues that self-belief should be directed toward making something valuable for the world rather than just achieving an outcome defined by others' approval. He references Steve Jobs' concept of the "highest order bit"—loving what you do—as important, but clarifies that this love stems from a belief in one's capacity to provide value and service first. Chris supports this view by noting how he persisted with his podcast for years without external recognition because he believed in its potential worth. The dialogue concludes that while self-belief is often overrated as the sole driver of success, the conviction that one can create something meaningful serves as a powerful engine for perseverance, allowing individuals to overcome fear and doubt until their efforts are recognized by the world.
Read the full video transcript
belief comes before ability the external
world has this backwards the belief that
you can do something is a prerequisite
for trying this drives me insane so you
you mentioned earlier like you don't
know how normal normal people are and
I'm going to remember that line because
people are like over and over again when
you have somebody you have somebody like
the founder of Four Season we talked
about you know hey uh Chris we're
friends like I'm going to tell you my
dream and my dream is to build the
collection not just one a colle ction of
the world's greatest hotels and you're
like Izzy you've never you have no money
you've never built a hotel like what are
you talking like why would you even
think this is possible what you need to
do is prove it first and then we'll
believe in you it's like no that's ass
backwards belief always comes before
ability there's a story where elon's on
you know he tries to buy a rocket at
first he thought he was just going to
shoot like this this um this like Garden
uh for lack of a better word to Mars on
somebody else's rocket and CU he was
trying to like draw attention to the
fact that hey n is not innovating we're
like not we're stuck in like lower Earth
orbit like why aren't we trying to get
to Mars why aren you trying to you know
um colonize the Galaxy and he he's goes
to Russia they like treat him like [ __ ]
and he's on the way back and he just
realizes hey we're going to build our
own rocket and people laugh at him
they're like oh this internet kid cuz
you know he's 29 28 he's like who are
you internet kid you can't do that his
belief came before his ability he
believed that he could do that and then
he went out and proved it now when I say
belief comes before ability it doesn't
mean you just sit there and like I'm
great and you don't do it no you do the
work necessary to achieve what you want
but if you're waiting for the external
world to like push encourage you or and
Edge you on like it's impossible so I
wasn't
sure I wasn't sure what direction you
were going in with that because one
reading of that sounds fantastic and I
wholeheartedly disagree mhm but the one
from the outside world I think is
absolutely bang on so the reason that I
disagree if you would say belief comes
before ability as in self-belief uh I
wrote an essay this week about it so I'm
going to read it to you okay an Ode to
people who don't believe in themselves
what comes first belief or action do you
need to believe that you can do a thing
before you do it fake it until you make
it is one option but incredibly hard if
you're introspective or have low
self-belief and high standards so what
about make it until you fake it here are
some lessons I've learned you can
believe you're not worthy of a thing and
still attain it you can be adamant that
your efforts are going to go badly and
still succeed you can grip and grasp and
fear and it ruin the enjoyment and be
totally unwarranted and things still go
well you can have no self-belief and
show up anyway and still win you can
want more for yourself without knowing
exactly what that looks like you can
doubt the process question your talent
be uncertain that you're making progress
disparage your accomplishments
permanently feel like you're not working
hard enough no matter how hard you work
never give yourself a break fail to
follow feel gratitude be terrified of
never reaching your goals and still end
up in a place that your 20-year-old self
could not imagine you'd ever get to
self-belief is overrated generate
evidence yeah I would like I you could
say self when I say belief comes before
ability I mean self belief yeah but I
don't that line I would disagree where
it's like self-belief is overrated I
think it's the the the the highest order
bit there's actually one area where I
disagree with Steve Jobs and he talks
about like um the highest order bit it's
a it's from like computer science where
it's like the most important part of the
system right and this is like a complete
like oversimplification of it but um and
his whole thing was like the highest
order bit is that like you love what you
do and for all the reasons that we
discussed earlier you'll keep doing it
for a long time you'll persevere and
everything else and I love what I do I
know you love what you do and I agree
like it's super important I think it
makes life easier you Ed the phrase like
you're swimming Downstream earlier I
think is a great way to put that and so
I was thinking about that because um the
Steve Jobs archive which is run by
Steve's Widow just released this free
book you can read online called make
something wonderful Steve Jobs in his
own words and it's remarkable and so
like I've read it a bunch of times and
you know he talks about this in there um
that's where I discovered the highest
order bit part and then I was thinking
about it more and more and I was just
like well no that's not like what comes
first it's like the belief that you can
actually do something that's valuable to
the world that provide that like is an
active service and makes the world a
better place and I think me and you
might be good examples it's like how
many years were you doing the podcast
before anybody gave it damn three and a
half mine was 5 and a half why were you
still doing it because I was swimming
down stream because you believed that
you could like you believed that you
could do it the belief that you had that
you could actually make something worth
people's time and listening right that
lag was a couple years before the
world's like yes Chris we agree with you
yeah that's an interesting way to think
about
self-belief um because I believe that
the thing that I'm doing right now is of
value to the world and the world just as
yet hasn't recognized that it's like an
interesting pivot on self-belief um the
belief I know that I can make it I have
never had I've never had yeah ever ever
I am the best avatar for somebody that
is per L looking at his feet going how
the [ __ ] am I stood here like how did
this happen uh very much don't believe
that you're worthy of a thing still
attained it disparage your
accomplishments but still get them uh
grip grasp fear ruin the enjoyment all
of that all of that like the entire for
me Journey up until probably only the
last two years basically moving to
America
was sort of Riven with self-doubt and
uncertainty and and am I even is am I
even doing this right like but I enjoyed
the thing that I was doing and I knew
that I was good at that thing mhm but I
didn't know that there was going to be
some outcome so I think it's what is the
sort of self-belief directed at yeah in
a way directed at the outcome of I know
that I can do this thing well and I
enjoy it all day directed at this is
going to reach something that some
portion of people will accuse of being
success never
really once so I I've heard you say that
perspective on your show before I would
say like interacting with you in person
you come across unbelievably you've only
known me for the last two years yeah
yeah much bigger much bigger mountain of
evidence yeah good point after a while
if impostor syndrome continues to
persist even though you keep disproving
it do you have impostor syndrome today
no okay no no more I'm about to step out
on stage in front of three and a half
thousand people in London I just came
back from Oz 5,000 people other side of
the planet yeah and um no not anymore uh
but that like I I need to really write
this out cuz I haven't
yet I'm just such a [ __ ] poster boy
for somebody that H would
have abiding impostor
syndrome like
very uncertain very unsure of himself of
his place in the world a need for
validation a desire to be seen as
competent like all of the thing you know
just like the [ __ ] ingredients to
make a really beautiful impostor
syndrome casserole and um it's dropped
away and it's gone and it's not gone
through any weird combination of mindset
changes and and sort of conscious
reframing uh it's gone because it's been
crushed under a [ __ ] neutron star
worth weight of evidence yeah that I'm
like I just can't I can't
keep holding on to a belief that things
are going to go badly or that I'm not
good enough or that I don't have the
talent or that even though I feel like
I'm working hard I know that I should be
working infinitely harder because I'm
just like how many times you want to
roll the dice and it come up six six six
like over and over and over and over
again and um yeah I just I really want
to write it out because I think that
there's a lot of people who have a a
level of self-doubt so great that they
struggle to even connect with a with
like an inspirational story because it
feels like it's a different I agree
completely I think um a lot of people
accuse entrepreneurs of being arrogant
and of course they are like you'd have
to be arrogant to think like oh I don't
have to go I can I don't have to work
for somebody else like I can I can
literally take something that doesn't
exist and like bring it to the world but
my issue with that is like we don't have
an epidemic of arrogance we have an
epidemic of people who don't believe in
themselves and so the weird thing about
the early days of the podcast you know
these people that I'm reading about and
telling stories about they're they're
crazy people like they are all crazy
people and yet I kept hearing the same
review the same email the same DM I find
your podcast so comforting I'm like what
kind of I was like oh there's a million
you know of us out there that are like
this is me too and that's the biggest
key where like the the reason the the
biographies are important in life
stories in general is not because like
we're talking about Francis vopa's life
or Steve Jobs life or any of the lives
we've talked about it's like no no you
see yourself in them correct that's the
key dude I I've realized this over the
last couple of years we don't fall in
love with other people who are perfect
we fall in love with other people who we
see ourselves in their flaws and there's
been a few times on the show or or going
out for dinner and meeting people or
whatever like ha I this person's you
know really smart or really interesting
or really insightful and I just don't
care
and I have nothing to talk to them about
and I realized it's that I can't find hu
MH in their shortcomings that I can
latch on to that either I'm not uh I'm
unable to see them for some reason
they're being hidden they're
incentivized to hide them they don't
align with the way that I see the World
perhaps you know cultural differences
stuff like that um but yeah we we what
we really really resonate with is
somebody else who has a shortcoming that
we see ourselves in you see a little
version of yourself in Chris Bumstead
when he cries on stage or when he's
uncertain about whether or not he's
going to win you see a little bit of
yourself in Kobe when he snaps his
Achilles and he's unsure about where
he's going but then he pulls himself
back around you know like whoever it is
like you see your and that I think is um
is reassuring to a lot of people it's
certainly reassuring to me when I
realized that the most interesting
person in the room in fact this was this
was born out of our trip to Miami for
George's birthday uh the most
interesting person in the room isn't the
most interesting person in the room it's
the person who makes everybody else feel
like they're the most interesting person
in the room so you don't need to worry
about not being charismatic you just
need to make other people feel
charismatic like I I called it inverse
Charisma um that you know that story was
it uh Winston Churchill's wife who went
to go and see the two different American
presidents and she said I sat down with
one of them and after
a dinner being next to him I left
feeling like he was the smartest person
in the world I sat down a couple of
months later with his opponent and after
that dinner I left feeling like I was
the smartest person in the world like
who do you want to be I want to be the
sort of person that makes other people
feel like the smartest person in the
world and the beautiful thing about this
idea is that so many people want to be
liked and charismatic but feel like they
don't have any Charisma or likeability
mhm you don't need to it's not about you
yeah it's about what you do to other
people and that is so much easier if
you're just you don't need to be
interesting you just need to be [ __ ]
interested in somebody else I love that
you say that because I say the most
interesting people are the most
interested and like the the people that
I'm drawn to right because to your point
like you meet so many people and some
cases like you admire them a from afar
and I think one of the the biggest
benefits is like in this way I'm again
evangelist for reading biographies and
autobiographies is because like we're
incentivized in our day-to-day to like
make things seem better like you were
just talking about the health problems
you know you're like hey I'm not ready
to talk about this but you know when I
am I'll talk about it but like from the
outside people like Chris has has at
everything you know he's handsome he's
in great shape he's world famous like
he's got one of the best podcasts in the
world and you're like yeah but you
haven't seen the [ __ ] that I've been
going through for the last like 12
months and the biography is like you see
that because they're not people don't
write sit down to write a biography when
they're like 30 35 40 when they're still
in it they there's some weird genetic
thing where it's like I know I'm going
to die soon I want to pass down
everything I know in this book it's a
Act of service to the next generation of
entrepreneurs I think is really
important and that's the I when I just
did the the Elon episode on um the
SpaceX book the one of the things I said
is just like the reason that you guys
should read this book is because like
you have not only just Elon a genius but
all the early SpaceX employees are
genius and the whole book is these
Geniuses can't figure [ __ ] out and like
they're running into problem after
problem after problem and then you know
six years later they figure it out that
is so good for you it's like oh if that
guy you know if that guy couldn't do
that then then then it makes sense like
I feel better about myself again it's
technically a story about Elon SpaceX
but you make it about yourself I just
think that's human nature in other news
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