Secret Hollywood Rituals, Shane Gillis & Toxic Masculinity - Mark Normand

Mark Normand, welcome to the show. Hey, hey, good to be back. What is this? Big three? Three, man. Third time. Third time and two from the airport. I come straight here. Yeah, flying. IT'S WOMEN'S HISTORY MONTH. OH, NO. Don't say that. We just exited Black History Month. That's true. Well, that was a tough month just like I feel like there's more black on black talk and trash than before. How so? Well, you got the Kat Williams, which was like the black Epstein list, you know. And then like what's her face did it? Monique did it after him. I don't know, they just feel and now like P. Diddy is getting You see all the P. Diddy stuff? No. Oh my god, you got to get on black Twitter. It's wild. Blitter? Blitter, yeah. What what's P. Diddy been involved in? Uh P. Diddy, oh black Twitter be Malcolm X. All right. Um P. Diddy is getting called gay and apparently hooked up with a bunch of young boys and stuff. So, he's getting called gay and apparently hooked up. So, it's like the R. Kelly 2.0. It's the R. Kelly sequel. Yeah, no urine. Sans urine, but yeah, apparently had like a Bieber moment and an Usher thing and a Meek Mill and all this. So, Jeez. Check it out. Yeah, I watching that Kat Williams Club Shay Shay appearance made me realize that black people live in an entirely different universe like linguistically. Oh, yeah. not a surprise to to anyone, but you just seeing that kind of a conversation, you know, when someone comes in they've got a very strong accent and you kind of tune Yes. the radio in your head. You're like, "Where am I picking?" And then you kind of hit the rhythm and you're like, Yes. Yes. It took a little while for me to because and it's not just that, it was references are different and the cadence that they speak at's different and the the the way that they use pauses is different and the colloquial terms that they use everything is so different. Yeah. Well, I feel like they black people come up with all these these terms and lingo and then we take it like a year later. Whitey'll get it a year later and then we [ __ ] it up and then black people like, "We need some new shit." Like white people are still saying bling, you know, and stuff like that. chasing down the cool of black people, is that what you're saying? But we have our whitey has its contribution like we'll invent basketball and then black people will come and be much better at it. Yeah, yeah. Or like we'll invent a car and they'll put a rim on it or whatever. Okay, so that you're saying that they're like modding all of white culture and making it better. Well, better, different, their own, whatever you want to call it, but I think we help each other. There's a lot of like, "Hey, whitey steals everything." But like, you know, there's some back and forth. I understand. What month would you have if you could design one? Ryan Long said that he wanted to have a premature parade, which was for guys that nut too quickly. That's right. That should be February. It's the shortest month. That's true. Jeez, I don't know. What would I take? I would take uh premature, maybe a flaccid flaccid month. No. I'll I'll go something off uh off dick. Will you Sleeping month. Sleeping in month? Yes. That'd be nice to have a lie Well, I didn't realize there's basically every Friday every single week is like a I'm where the hell am I going on a plane today day Mm. for all comedians. That you guys Yes. jump on planes and you know, if I end up texting someone on a Friday, it's just about to I'm getting on a plane to Phoenix or I'm getting on a plane to Utah or I'm getting on a plane to wherever. Like there's always that. That's it. That's what your Fridays consist of Friday mornings. Totally. Like I'm here on a Thursday and this feels foreign. It feels weird to not be on a Friday flying out. But yeah, by the way, if I'm taking a month, let's go offended month. Nobody can get in trouble month. So, you can just say horrific [ __ ] in this month and not get in trouble. That would be fun. Like a purge. Uh Oh god, yeah. Well, you could do that for that would be nice even just as an amnesty like a joke amnesty. Right, right. 12 hours you can say anything you want and no one's allowed to get mad at you. Although the N-word, it would get out of hand. The first day would be ugly. That Yeah, maybe not. Speaking of Utah, I went to Utah for the first time and you taught me you taught me about Mormon's soaking. Yes. We going right into soaking? I was just in Salt Lake. They they still do it. I brought it up and the crowd goes wild. What's Can you explain for the uninitiated? Pull this sucker down a little bit for me. Sure. Uh what what is soaking? Soaking is they can't have sex or they can't thrust. So, they're allowed to put it in and just hold it there like a gun in a holster. And then they have all these loopholes much like the Hasidic Jews, they have all these loopholes where a kid can jump on the bed next to them and so it'll cause a humping movement without actually humping cuz the kid was jumping on the bed. So, it's their dumb religion. That is the maddest thing, but I didn't realize it's the first time I've been to Utah, first time I've been to Park City, first time I've been to Salt Lake City. And uh I didn't realize that coffee isn't allowed, yes, but energy drinks are allowed, Yes. Loophole. Uh tattoos are not allowed, Mhm. but breast augmentation surgery is allowed. Oh, is that right? Yeah, so you can get cosmetic surgery, but you can't get a tattoo. You can drink like Nutonic or Monster or whatever, but you can't drink coffee. Uh and there's just I don't know. I feel like the litigiousness should have been more watertight. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think these rules were made before they thought of Red Bull. Yes. You know, so they're like, "Coffee's out, but you go there and the people are repressed. They're great comedy crowds cuz I think they're like, "Oh, he said that horrible thing. That felt so good. I can't [ __ ] my daughter or whatever." You know, so the whole thing is wacky. But when you think about it, I Sarah Silverman had a great bit about how we we make fun of Scientology, but it's just cuz it's new. If someone brought out Christianity today, you'd be like, "Wait, wait. She got pregnant without [ __ ] There's a baby Jesus? Who? Wise men? Don't eat fish on Friday? Whatever it is." You know, like it's just new. And I think the same with Mormonism. It's just it's it seems silly, but it's just cuz we're not in it. Yeah, that's interesting. I I heard a rumor. I don't know if this is true that the third largest cash reserves in the world are held by the Mormon Church. Really? made them open up their accounts. Maybe there was some investigation and obviously they're a a non-profit or whatever, but just endless numbers of crazy rich people. Wow. Um Mormons and contributing to the Mormon Church and apparently the Mormon Church basically built all of Salt Lake as well. Yeah. Uh it's Have you been to the campus? The Brigham Young? No, what's that? That's their university. That's the Mormon University. Beautiful campus, ornate, like crazy architecture, really nice. These religions have so much money. Scientology has a crazy real estate in like Clearwater, Florida and LA. Crazy money. They're really nice. My assistant is Mormon and he's phenomenal. Went and did his missionary thing, came back, immediately married, immediately moved in with his with his wife. I spent Christmas Eve with him and the wife and the parents in law The Mormon cathedral. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're nice people. fantastic. Just some weird Yeah, yeah. like sub rules. Well, what about the polygamy? Is that real? I don't know. What's the they can have multiple wives? Yeah, well, that was Big Love. There was there's a couple reality shows about it. I don't know if that's real though. It might might be outdated. I think that they're trying that there's a current push at the moment to make polygamy the be ratified in the same way as gay marriage was so that you can have like a triple marriage. That's not that's not something legally that's recognized at the moment. That's true. If you get married to two people Yeah. three people get married. Yeah. Uh that's not you don't have the same sort of legal protections and I know maybe this is part way between kink shaming and and like you you don't know the way that we structure our new world's relationship. Well, that's the problem now is if something's new and you push back on it, everybody's like, "You're a bigot. You're close-minded." But that's a slippery slope cuz now we're getting into MAPS, minor attracted person. You know, like you you just if you shoot that down, now maybe you look like an [ __ ] and you're like, "No, no, I'm just trying to help kids." Yeah. You see what I'm saying? Well, I think anything that's new uh anyone that has any desire and that desire being told is wrong quite quickly gets accused of Yeah. kink shaming or this is it's some sort of judgment on them as a person and it's definitely not the way that it should be. Right. Well, progress is good, but people always they always go too far. They're like, "Let's see what else we can get away with." You know, we got this, we got that, we got this. Now, how about that? And you go, "Well, that's crazy." It's like smoking. All right, hear me out. They're legs. Hold on. First it was like, "Hey, you can't smoke in the restaurant this half." You're like, "All right." Then you're like, "Hey, you got to smoke at the bar." Then it's like, "Hey, you got to smoke at the outside." Then you got to smoke 10 ft away from the entrance and it just keeps going and going. Now it's like cigarettes are illegal. So, you got to kind of hold the line at some point. It's good to have progress, but I feel like people get a little power hungry. Yeah, did you see Google's Gemini thing? Yes, hilarious. Yeah, that's the new like battleground for woke and stuff. I I don't know how much that is indicative of Google's underlying woke Yeah. desires to, you know, trans the entire world and stuff like that. It totally might be. I read the press release where they were apologizing and that's Oh, really? Yeah, they the guy put out he was like, um, we we made some errors basically. Like was that he said, "Oh, yeah, no shit." Like it's the biggest news story in the world from the biggest company in the world that's 90% of the entire planet's search volume and now everyone is skeptical about whether or not your company's got good underlying principles. Yeah. Yeah, and it just it didn't seem very satisfactory to me. But what can you say I suppose in that situation what do you want to say? That's going to fix the problem. I know, but did you hear that it's they're mad at Elon Musk? Oh, so the the guy who invented it got they got into a fight with Elon Musk and was like, "I'm going to do this to get back at him." That's a rumor. Call in if you know what I'm talking about, but that that's out there. There's Bill Ackman and then there's another guy. Okay. The other guy hates Elon. And so he was like, "Let's go let's go all in super that's the worst whatever whoever designed the optics of that thing didn't really get it right. But It's a it's a it's a microcosm for what's going on in the whole country. I was like, well, it's just like, "Hey, uh, it's kind of go not let's go no whitey. Let's get a lot of diversity and all diversity is great and you know, blah white people have done horrible things, but when you're going inaccurate, that's when we got to cut it. It's like what I was saying before we went too far. Like you know, diversity is good, but when you make a the Nazis Asian on AI, you're like, "Well, what are we doing here?" Now it's not even accurate. It's one thing to be nice and progressive, but now we're inaccurate. Yeah, they managed to piss off the left by having black Nazis and the right by having black founding fathers. Right, exactly. Yeah, it was impressive. Yeah, what if you type in racist? Will it be go to back to black? Well, I saw that Or clan member? they'd been able to uh they'd been able to make non-racist images actually very racist by saying, uh, "Show me an image of 16th century philosophers drinking grape juice and eating watermelon." And it was Oh, that's great. four philosophers drinking grape juice and eating watermelon. Wow, that's a nice little move there. Yeah, they uh so talk to me about New York. How's New York doing at the moment? Uh, it's good. I mean, the news about New York is like, "Hey, there's a migrant eating out your wife at every moment and uh you're going to get killed by a hobo." And look, the guys are still jerking off. The migrant thing is crazy. I went to Mexico City for New Year's just to give them give it back, you know, like, "Hey, how do you like it? I got a honky here." But uh the migrant thing is kind of crazy just cuz they're getting credit cards and all this stuff. So, it's like where are they being deposited? They're in a lot of hotels. In New York, New In New York, yeah. So, some hotel owners like, "Oh, [ __ ] How did I get screwed?" And who's telling the hotel owners that they have to do this? I think Mayor Adams. Right. So, this is Manhattan or Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, they're I think they're spread out, but it's mostly Manhattan. I've seen them coming on buses. It's pretty wild. Okay, so is it just because there's lots of room in New York that what like cuz you I wouldn't think Mexico border to New York isn't exactly a short trip. It's like it's as far as you can get. Totally. So, they're they're on those buses. It's got to be hell. I feel for the people. Yep. But, you know, That's the worst part of the journey. It's not the the dude trying to get you across the state line Right. illegally. It's the [ __ ] four-day bus journey to get to New York. exactly. And uh it's got to be rough for these folks, but I think it's also wasn't Texas like, "Hey, how do you like it?" Wasn't that a thing? We're sending you the buses of migrants. they put them in they put them in some really nice retreat someplace that rich people go on holiday. Martha's Vineyard. Martha's Vineyard and said, "We're depositing them all here." And then there was big kickoffs. Yeah. Yeah, I there's this big fight at the moment about whether or not it's state problem or it's federal problem. And it seems in the law to be pretty much unequivocally a federal problem. It's like the state doesn't get to choose who comes in and out of the state from other countries. It's like the country first. But then, yeah, I don't know, man. I I uh it's it's bizarre that this is happening to New York, which is supposed to be this, you know, like flagship I know. of America. Yeah. It's super tourist hotspot. I went to the Bahamas about 6 months ago and I was talking to the dude that was driving me. Interesting. Bahamas because it was settled by the Brits and then developed by the Brits, they drive on our side of the road. So, they drive on the left-hand side of the road. But because they're only 30 minutes off the coast of Miami, they drive American cars. Oh, funny. you're driving a left-hand drive car on the left-hand side of the road. Weird. nightmare. But it's all British road markings, British speed limit, it's brilliant, which I like. Anyway, I was asking the guy that the Uber driver and I was saying, "What's the crime like around here? You know, are there any areas that I shouldn't go to?" I was in there for 2 days. I managed to get myself into gang problems that would have been definitely a me thing. Yeah. And uh he said, "There is sort of you know, violence and gang activity on the island, but every tourist should be pretty reliably safe." I was like, "Oh, that's interesting. Why?" He said, "Because if gangs do stuff to locals or to other gangs, the police sort of treat them as you'd expect. But if they do it to tourists, they come down on them like a ton of bricks. Mhm. Because if there is negative tourism information being put out to the world, that hurts everybody. That's good. dependent. But you'd think that the same would be true in New York. Yeah, well, we It's so dependent on tourism. But I think the country has got this thing going on now where it's like you we already got you. These people are new, so we're going to be nicer to them. That kind of feels like the general consensus in the world. You know, like, "Hey, this is we're already you already live here. These people are new, we got to be nice to them." Mhm. I don't know. That just feels like it's in the air now where it used to be the opposite. Used to be like, "We're Americans. We come first." And I'm not saying that one is right or wrong, but I do I do think that has flipped in uh society lately. But I think we should send a busload of drag queens to Texas. Just, you know, as like a little revenge. What do you guys hate the most? We'll send trans drag queens to Texas just to get you back. Wow, RuPaul Texas. That'd be interesting. With everyone in everyone in a pink fluffy cowboy hat like they're on a bachelorette party in Nashville. Right, right. Well, the problem is is the bail reform. Not to be that guy. You know about this? know about that. Oh, this is bad. So, this is the thing where all these people commit crimes and they get out immediately. So, like then they'll commit another crime and everybody's like, "Why is this person out on the street?" You're like, "Well, they got bailed out." That's a new law. Who's bailing them? Bail reform. I think it's if they're not committing a crime with a gun, you can't keep them in prison. Yeah, you haven't heard this? No. This is what's [ __ ] up the city. It's more than the migrants or anything else. Yeah, give it we need Jmo here to Google that. it up. Pull it up. Okay. But uh bail reform is is really bad. So, like if you if I hit you with a hammer, I'll go to jail and get out that day because it's not a gun. But if you hit me with a gun, Yeah, yeah, my pistol whip. might be an issue. Well, did you hear about the four migrants who beat up the cop? No. Oh, man. All right. Well, yeah, that was a big big news story in New York and they went to jail and got out that day. And then they got out of prison, they're on on the news like, "We're back out, baby. [ __ ] all you guys." Oh my god. So, it's the morale is low. Yeah, I bet it is. in the city. it like being, you know, day-to-day living in X week? Cuz I presumably like every time that I go to New York, I just do the full tourist thing. I always end up on Times Square even if I don't mean to be there. Like I just I I don't really know where I'm going and you meet people you're like, "Meet in the middle of Times Square." Like it's the only [ __ ] landmark that you know. Yeah. Um but obviously that's not you. You know, you're going to be going to work, you're going to be going to shows, you're going to be you're going to know the routes to take. So, as a felt sense of someone living in New York, how often are you interacting with the uh downfall of the city? Not too often just cuz I I know my route. I know I got my head on a swivel. I've been mugged a couple times already in my first year there. So, I've got it down pretty good. It's kind of when you got the map open and you got the checkered plaid shirt on and the polo and you're wide eyes with the camera around the neck. Exactly, exactly. Khaki shorts and that whole thing. So, that's kind of when it you get [ __ ] but uh I I still love it. Like I I travel every weekend and you go to Salt Lake City and it's pretty, but I'm like there's nothing going on. There's no energy. You know, I'm walking around, there's no one on the sidewalk. I need that part. So, I like New York for that reason and I'll probably never leave. I arrived during SantaCon, which is like Wow. an absolute fever dream. Yeah, that's wild and a little offensive to Jews. Why? Well, they don't celebrate Christmas, so we're really in their face with it. HanukkahCon we could do. Ooh. That'd be nice. Yeah. Yeah. HanukkahCon. Uh talking about the the Kat Williams thing, I was listening to him speak to Rogan and he was saying that Hollywood is not really there to entertain you. Propaganda in Hollywood is built into the ingredients list. You're kind of Wait, can you can you translate that? Hollywood is not really there to entertain you. Propaganda in Hollywood is built into the ingredients list. Basically, that What does that mean? That I think a lot of what he thinks is happening in Hollywood is curated narratives in order to be able to deliver a particular message to the public out there. Now, I didn't realize that there's entire well-established law about black guys having to go through this ceremony of wearing a dress. Oh, yeah. Yeah. on a movie. Like this is part of it in order to be able to get a big role. I This is complete like well-established kind of almost it's it's like taken as a given. Right. that black guys need to do that apparently. They're like there's a bag of there's a bag of cash waiting for you. You just need to put on the dress first. Yeah, I don't know. I mean look, I'm I can't speak to it cuz I'm not a Afro-American, but uh I feel like there's black guys who never wore a dress who made it. Are are there not? Well, I hope so, but like I was talking to Ryan about this and he seemed to he seemed to like just it's taken as a given that's in there. But yeah, you're kind of circling some of the more mainstreamy bits. You do like late-nighty shows and and and stuff. What's the experience cuz obviously you're like straddling independent stuff, comedy stuff, and then mainstream stuff, too. Yeah. What's the tenor like inside mainstream TV at the moment? Like what's it like when you like what It's weird. It's definitely um it's like you said, there's definitely like a message that we have to uphold. And uh the weird thing about the message or whatever you want to call it, the narrative, is I'm okay with the narrative. I get it. We've always had narratives. Like in the '50s, the husband and wife had two beds, and they're [ __ ] married, and they have kids, but they have two separate beds. But we all know they're banging, but it's the '50s, you know? So now the message or the narrative is different. But my thing is you can't even bring up the narrative. People act like there's nothing. They're like, "No, what are you talking about?" Haha. And I'm like, "Well, wait a minute. So we're doing this [ __ ] but I can't we can't even bring it up, either?" That's where I get [ __ ] As long as we can acknowledge it, then we're good. What would you say to people that say uh you're seeing racism where there isn't any? Like this isn't racism. This is just representation or something. Uh I would say I'm all for representation, but like you know, some of these comedy festivals, they'll they have to check some boxes. So they'll bring on a black guy who's not that good, but he's black. And you're like, "Well, there's a tons of funny black guys." But you just went with the guy who is black instead of a funny guy who happens to be black. And that's To me, that's the ultimate racism. That's like a soft racism. Why would they Oh, is there a subsection of black comedians or black actors and contributors to stuff that happens on TV who push a narrative that is more publicly acceptable? Is that why those guys get chosen? Ooh, that's a good question. Uh maybe. Yeah, like Tom Segura has that funny thing where they're like, "Ah, we're looking for like some people of color." He's like, "Well, I'm Hispanic." And they're like, "Yeah." Not that color. Not We need more Hispanic than you. And he's like, "So you're full of shit." So stuff like that where I just I'm fine with with all the [ __ ] You just got to acknowledge it just so I don't feel crazy. Well, Francis Foster's uh Venezuelan uh from Triggernometry. Konstantin Kisin is Russian. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So you know, you've got two guys that are yeah, as [ __ ] immigranty as you're going to get. But They don't look it. No. Yeah, is isn't that strange that it's not Well, it's all optics at the end of the day. You know, you you want to be able to go look at these guys I booked. And you want to have a [ __ ] sombrero and a guy um you know, with a with like a poncho on just cuz it's easy. That's a it's a crazy image, but we want to you know, we want we want a guy in like a dashiki and who's like really black, you know, selling purses. That's what you want. But if you go, "Hey, this guy's black." They're like, "Well, he looks white." You're like, "Well, he's an albino, but he's black." That doesn't count. 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Or if you need to get the man in your life a gift, or if you just need to hint at them that perhaps they're a little bit hairier than you would like them to be, this is the perfect socially acceptable gesture. Also, there is free shipping worldwide plus a 20% discount if you go to the link in the show notes below, or head to manscaped.com/modernwisdom, use the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's manscaped.com/modernwisdom and modernwisdom at checkout. What are your thoughts post-Shane's SNL appearance? Have you thought about what this means for comedy? What is it the landmark moment that sort of some people hope it is? I think it is a big deal. I don't want to be one of these "Hey, this is a knife in the chest of cancel bullshit." I don't I don't think it's that profound, but I do think to me, it's funny cuz SNL is like, "You're out. You're fired." And then 5 years later, they're like, "Ah, he still said the thing that they hated." So I'm like, "Which one is it?" So it kind of just shows that this is a lot of this [ __ ] is [ __ ] Like um you see that Brian Stelter? You know who that is? He was a CNN He was a CNN uh panelist or whatever you call it, pundit. And he was like always like, "Ah, these Republicans." And now he's gotten fired, and now he's gone Republican. So it's just kind of funny that like things flip and flop, and we can go 100 100 miles an hour in one way, something changes, and we just U-turn and go the other way. And you're like, "Well, what about all that stuff that you were doing?" So it's all silly. And we're all going to die one day. Well, I don't know. I mean people who change their opinions with the wind, Yes. it does make you think that they're pretty unreliable. Uh you know, if SNL And this wasn't I wasn't really paying much attention 5 years ago when the Shane original thing kicked off, but you just said What was he on the front cover of? American Life or something? Who? Shane. Oh, I think it was like Newsweek. Right, which is a big deal. Yeah. That's a it's a big thing that's going on. him, Cosby, Harvey, and Shane. And it was like, "What are we doing here?" Yeah, it's crazy. And then you think, "Okay, so in 5 years' time." I mean, I don't know. It would have been interesting for SNL to have made people understand why they changed their opinion. Mhm. Because it sounds an awful lot like, "Well, Shane's more popular now." Right. Because it's not He's still I mean, during his opening monologue, he managed to say the word gay, [ __ ] and cracker. So And we all And we're all okay? Nobody died? Everybody's fine with the words? We're going to be all right. Well, you know what I love about it? All these outlets are like, "He bombed. He bombed." First of all, it wasn't a bomb. He was a little loosey-goosey. He looked a little nervous, but he got big laughs. I thought he did well. But I know a couple comics who have bombed on there, but they didn't write that about them. And they were like definite bombs. So why won't you write it shows that there's an agenda always. There's always something more behind it, which is weird in journalism cuz it used to not be like that. You're supposed to just report on fact. Well, I guess everyone's got an opinion, right? Do you like it? Do you not like it? I did see someone had done a search, and so many of the headlines just appeared to be the same thing almost like I know. that whole kind of coordinated Well, it's the same with late night. Every late night is like, "We hate this. We like that." You know, they're all the same jokes. Just That's why when Jon Stewart got The Daily Show and he did like the "Biden's old and Trump is annoying" or whatever, it was like, "Whoa, you hit two. You hit both." That was like revolutionary. Yes. And then he got attacked for that. Did he? Yeah. Well, you know, people got mad at him. He got some backlash. Well, that he shouldn't be talking about Biden's cognitive decline. Exactly. There was a the White House physician did an assessment of Biden's health. Mhm. And uh he said it was like, you know, this has been it's one of the most overdone topics. Like is he capable to do the job? He's going to be the oldest president ever that comes into office if he gets reelected. But the same's going to be true of Trump as well, even though Trump doesn't seem at least mentally to be the same. White House doctor claims Biden fit for duty after physical. President Joe Biden is allegedly fit for duty following his yearly physical exam, according to White House doctor Kevin O'Connor. O'Connor says that there were no new concerns identified during the course of the exam from the last time Biden was examined in 2023. He claimed that Biden remained fit for duty and fully executes all of his responsibilities without any exemptions or accommodations. He also called Biden healthy, active, and robust. While the results from Biden's physical exam seem positive, no cognitive exam was performed. That's classic. What did you see the thing with Trump where he said uh he said something on a panel, and he was like, "How about that, Mercedes?" And everybody's like, "He got his wife's name wrong. Oh my god, he's slipping. He's slipping." There's all these articles about him slipping. And then it came out that Mercedes was the name of the woman running the panel. So but they don't go back, and they don't go, "Oh, [ __ ] We [ __ ] that up." And you're like, "Well, I haven't seen you guys do that to Biden when he slips and he eats ice cream and talks about Palestine." You know? So like And look, I don't care, but that's what I'm saying. Like there's always a an agenda or a message that it you can't go against. And I'm fine with the message, but you you just got to acknowledge it. That's what kills me. Like the AI thing is great proof because you're like, "All right. Something is going on." Unequivocal obvious knowing of what's going on underneath. Exactly. That's all I ask is just to go, "All right, you're right. It's happening. Back to work." Yeah, it's uh it's kind of interesting when the mask slips. And I think people have just got such a problem with the accusation garnering so much attention and then the retraction being so piss poor. Yeah, always. We like we like a headline. That's why they have to write Shane bombs because it's like we got to get we got to grab them. Mhm. I wonder yeah, thinking about Shane getting back onto SNL and going, all right, is this a is this a a landmark moment that shows that we've gone past the peak woke stuff and everything's kind of coming back around. I don't know I don't know how big of a deal SNL is in the US. I don't know how much stuff is downstream from it, but certainly that guy who went to Apple and then went back, Jon Stewart. That the guy? Yeah, I always get him and Jon Oliver mixed up. Oh, both were on The Daily Show, but one's British. Yes. Uh he's sort of starting to push things a little bit. Bill Maher's kind of always been relatively kind of one foot in each camp at least. Had to kind of call stuff out. I don't know, like ultimately, rather than looking at narratives and what sort of um desire or what kind of big story or message is being pushed, it's way easier to just look at incentives. It's like what are people incentivized to talk about? Cuz if they're incentivized to talk about this one thing because it makes them look empathetic and caring and and and like they're a an altruistic truth teller, people will just do that. The um by far the easiest thing is to make it either cancerous or uncool or obviously manipulating to do that thing, to do the forced diversity, to do the I think almost who do you know in normal life that cares about that stuff? No one. Yeah, that's true. That that gives me hope is when you see just you know, like I remember I went to a thing with my wife's family and I they were like, you want a beer? I was like, throw me a Bud Light, you trans whatever. And he was like, what do you mean? I'm like, you know, Dylan Mulvaney. And he's like, who? And I'm like, oh, you're a healthy person. Yeah. You got your kids, you live out in the suburbs, you you you golf, you know, that that guy's living life. And I'm out here like, uh Hunter Biden, uh Mitch McConnell. I'm writing all these jokes and then I think all that [ __ ] slips in and it makes you sadder. Yes. So, he's living it right. And I think we're kind of dialed in to the world and the culture and all that [ __ ] and I think it might be eating away at us. Yeah, I think you're probably right. What's your strategy for remaining positive? Cuz you've got to keep on top of this stuff in order to be able to do the jokes and the topical things, but you also don't want to be completely at the mercy and have your brain sucked out of your ears. I think you got to be just be aware of it. You got to kind of go, all right, I'm watching a lot of Gaza Strip stuff. I got I got to pull back a little. relaxation music on an evening time? Some people play a video of 4K video of a fireplace. You've just got Gaza Strip. Yeah, yeah, I've just got the Iron Dome getting bombed. That's my screensaver. But yeah, so I hope um yeah, I think you got to be aware of it. You got to be conscious of it and you got to keep it silly. You got to keep it funny. You know those comics who go up and just, this is happening in the country and you're like, well, this isn't fun. You got to put a dick joke in there somewhere. So somehow keep it silly and be aware that this is all news, it's all going to go away. The guy let himself on fire the other day. That will go away in 3 days, which is sad. Um but that's just how that's just how it works and none of this affects you directly. You go to the gym, you eat your protein, you get laid, you move on. That it's this it's a two-way selective amnesia or sort of short-term memory that the press or SNL or whoever seem to be very quickly prepared to forget the thing that they stated as absolute 100% I know. It's undeniable fact, but then the audience also forget the thing that they were previously vehement about. Yeah. How many people I would love to see someone do a study of the proportion of people with Ukraine flags in their bio. And in like how does the graph peak? Yeah. And then it sort of tails off and it tails off and then oh, the Gaza happened and like that that was a big drop. The stock the stock of Ukraine discussions really really hit a October 7th put a big dent in that. And then we'll continue to go along, continue to go along. And it's this flimsiness of of people's convictions about things that they care about. Like look, if you're going to force me to read a hundred tweet thread or you posting about this particular thing over and over and over again or news stories being dominated by this thing, then have the courage of your convictions to stick about and keep talking about that when it's not popular. Of course. It feels like fashion. Like, oh, you're still wearing those pants? Those are so out. And you're like, oh, [ __ ] And but instead of fashion though, like you made Ukraine your whole personality and now it's kind of faded out. And so now you got to just pretend no or hope no one noticed and go to the next thing. Remember stop Asian hate? Are they okay? Did they get stopped getting hated? What happened? But that was a hashtag for 8 minutes and we all got on board and then it moved on. I think I've heard someone call it the opinion pageant. Ooh, I like that. Yeah, where it's all about what opinion are you holding and and what's fashionable at this one time. You have a team Miss Speaking of opinion pageant, what's your bomber jacket that you were wearing? Oh, I have a Miss Teen USA vintage coach coat that I found at a thrift store. Was that owned by Donald J. Trump? Did he do that? I What was it he did? No, he did Miss America. Miss America, yeah. No, this is I just found it at thrift store and I was like, I'm buying this. It says Miss Teen USA. So I love the idea of some guy with a whistle and a gut was just like, all right, bring her in. We're going to we're going to win it this year, Kelly, you know. So I had to buy it. Like in a boot camp for Miss Teen America. Yeah, yeah. When I was a kid, a a girl I know girls in high school were like, oh, I'm dying to do Playboy. I hope I can get in Playboy. And then Playboy became this evil thing. So, it's funny how much that shifted. Remember the Playboy Mansion was every guy's dream? Like, if I can make it to the Playboy Mansion, I'll be set. I've made it. Yeah, and now that's gone. And now girls do OnlyFans instead. Right, good point. It works strange, like I think something that in with one perspective could be seen as exploitative is seen as empowering when done just at a slightly different kind of angle. I love the empowering. That's a real catch-all for horse [ __ ] Isn't it? You know, it's like, oh, I'm stripping now. It's empowering. You're like, all right, I guess I got to go with that. Uh I'm a hooker. It's empowering. I mean that might be one of the patriarchy's greatest tricks. Perhaps the patriarchy is as powerful as we think it is if it's managed to convince women that getting naked and selling their nudes on the internet for the price of a cheeseburger is is actually something approximating empowerment. I get Was that us? I thought that was them. I Well, that's my point. That's the real psyop. The real psyop is that we convinced them that that's something that they should enforce between themselves. Sure. Well, I mean, feminism is great cuz it's like, we want to we want to be shirtless like men. We want to pay for dinner. And you're like, bring it on, sister. Rah rah. I found a interesting study looking at who pays for dates. So for Gen Z, an age-old question, who pays for dates? Young people tend to lean more liberal on a range of issues pertaining to relationship norms, but when it comes to dating, the idea that men should still pay prevails in heterosexual courtship. Researchers found that what that young men paid for all or most of the dates around 90% of the time, while women paid only 2% and they split the check around about 8%. On subsequent dates, splitting the check was more common though, men still paid a majority of the time while women rarely did. Nearly 80% of men expected that they would pay on the first date, while just over half of women expected men to pay. Surprisingly, views on gender norms that didn't make much of a difference. On average, both men and women in the sample expected the man to pay whether they had more traditional views of gender roles or more progressive ones. The finding strongly showed that the traditional pattern is still there. The persistent tradition of men paying for women may seem like a harmless artifact, but in a relationship, some acts don't exist in a vacuum. Wow. What's How about that? It's like that old Bill Burr joke, you know, like women want equality except for a couple things over here. Like if somebody breaks in, you got to stop them. You got to pay for dinner. The ship sinks, I get off first. You know, so that's his joke, but it's an interesting point, you know. We all want equality till you got to lose something, you know. The WNBA is like, hey, we should make as much as men, but male models make less than women, but I don't hear any women like, hey, they should make as much as women. I sent you that video the other day, the highlights from the WNBA. One of my friends One of my friends replied to me and was like, dude, look at the stands. And the stands are just empty. Ah. And you think, well, I don't know. Again with that, it's it's not saying that the WNBA doesn't need support. Maybe female basketball players, it would be great if more of them were incentivized to do stuff. But for all of the people saying, you aren't supporting the WNBA, why aren't you attending? Of course. Why aren't you in the stands? Sure. And this is why I've had this idea for ages about how hypocrisy is kind of the perfect purpose-built issue for the internet because it's like, do you remember those games? Maybe even exists still on like iPads where it would be a spot the difference thing. It would be in a touch screen in some pub somewhere and you'd be like looking between these two different images and be like, oh, okay, so that's there and that's there. And the reason that hypocrisy works is because what someone said or tweeted previously is available for you to see. And then the new thing that they said or tweeted is available for you to see. And you're able to compare and contrast the two and you say, well, it's interesting cuz you once said this thing, but look at what's happening here. And this is why Well, look, you just said that the WNBA needs way more support, but you haven't bought your season ticket to the like W Lakers or whatever for this year. So, what I put your money where your mouth is. How How is it that you can talk about this and not care like I saw you courtside at like a Bulls game, but I didn't see you courtside at the women's Bulls game. Sure. Yeah, I mean, it's it's obvious. It's dead on, but that's how people are, I think. They don't like having the hypocrisies pointed out quite rightly as well. Yeah. It really shows up the less gracious parts of you. But yeah, I think that's what people are are looking out for. They're looking out for hang on a second. Is this person [ __ ] telling the truth? That's like comedy. That's where comedy comes in. We come into that little that little opening and then really blow it up. You know, like when when Caitlyn Jenner turned into Caitlyn Jenner, a lot of women were trying to be nice and they were like, she's beautiful. Look how pretty she is. And then I would go, well, you look like her. And they'd go, [ __ ] you. And I'm like, oh, isn't that fun that you can just you you're full of [ __ ] and I can I can prove it. It's like when guys say, I don't see color. You're like, yeah, you do. All we talk about is is we need more black people in this movie. This is a racist. I'm like, so you saw the color. What if I'm like, I'm black? You'd go, no, you're not. And I go, aha. You know, so again, I'm okay with all of it. You just got to stop lying to me. That's what That's when you start going nuts. Yeah, how again looking at that sort of Shane thing, how effective do you think deplatforming is generally or that kind of cancellation thing? Cuz we had who's the [ __ ] big guy that I plays at the mothership a good bit and he got in some trouble about doing a George Floyd joke. Oh, yeah, yeah, Lucas. Yeah, yeah, David Lucas. Yeah. What's your Do you live in permanent ambient fear of the wrong clip going on up on the internet? A little. It used to be way scarier just cuz people would really like they made a career off of getting you. So, it was like they were more incentivized to get you. But now I think I think going after George Floyd, I guess that is pretty that's pretty dicey no matter who you are. Flying close to the sun. Yeah, so I'm not actually surprised that happened. I don't I don't support getting him in trouble, but like uh I'm not surprised and also he put the video up. So, you know, you're kind of like uh if that happened if I made a joke about that, I would not be posting that. So, there is there are some uh degrees to this, but uh you know, he is a comic and he can say whatever he wants and people can backlash and then he can rebut and that's how it goes. So, but I do think deplatforming is pretty shitty cuz it's all we talk about is compassion, but what about the guy or the gal like uh what's the lady from the Mandalorian? Mhm. The UFC fighter lady who got in trouble for tweeting. yes. You know, like she went through hell and then there's like a lot of like suicide talk when that happens. Like they really go through hell, but people go, well, she's working again, she's fine. And I hate that she's fine because you're the one who always talks about compassion. So, like let's say you called a a guy the N-word and then he went back to work the next day and I was like, he's fine. Well, what about the N-word thing? Like that still hurt his feelings. So, it just feels a little hip hypocritical to me. Yeah, I uh There's definitely something about a person overcoming a difficult situation and you thinking, well, because they overcame it, that means that it's not a big deal. You don't know how much difficulty people went through to to overcome that. So, there's a good example of this. Um I'm trying I'm purposefully trying harder to be more disagreeable in my Really? personal life and on the show as well. Yeah, I just I've found myself to be a bit of a people pleaser. I don't Yeah, me too. Sitting with discomfort, especially on the show, just makes me feel like Me too. We were one Why do we have that? What's wrong with us? Well, I'm I'm in [ __ ] therapy, so I've got like a million bro psychology reasons for why that's the case. But at least for me, if I say something that I know is purposefully going to push the guest or even someone that I'm sat opposite into an area of of discomfort, it makes me it's like toe curlingly difficult. Same. So, I understand if you look at um Douglas Murray or Ben Shapiro or even Rogan or whoever and you go, well, they're able to do it. And you go, yeah, but it comes more easily. Well, actually, I don't know. In In all truth, I don't know and this is the point that I'm making, but if you, people pleaser number one, or me, people pleaser number two, does that It's like it's like the skinny guy that manages to get muscular. You go, wow, look at what you had to overcome in order to be able to give this lukewarm pushback against a person. Yeah. Something tells me that Ben Shapiro's cringometer when he makes somebody else in a debate or a discussion feel uncomfortable is not as hyper attuned as mine. No, yours might be. And that's the same as this, well, think about either they they look okay. It's like, you don't know how much work this person has had to go through 100%. in order to be able to feel okay. They might have had to do [ __ ] a thousand sessions of meditation and and and gone to Peru and done a ton of ayahuasca or maybe they cried themselves to sleep for three months. You don't know. Just because someone comes out the other side looking okay doesn't mean that they didn't go through some [ __ ] And that and look, it's fine if you want to be mean and be a bully, but don't act compassionate also. That's what bugs me about it, too. So, I completely agree. Like you're putting someone through hell. Like I know a couple guys who went through it and uh Jesus, they're like different people now. They You know how the president goes in and then comes out and looking older? They're like that. You know, they had night terrors and therapy and all this [ __ ] and I think it's like a biological thing where when you're outside the group, you know, this uh this we're all social creatures. So, when you're outside the group and and outcast, it [ __ ] with you. It almost feels like you're dying or something. It's like this panicky feeling. It's very stressful. Yeah, so I think uh that's a lot That's hard on somebody. There was a a conversation I had with Robert Sapolsky, who's this evolutionary biologist guy, and he was teaching me about epigenetics. So, I thought epigenetics was total dog [ __ ] I thought it was like the god of the gaps for behavioral genetics. Basically, um life circumstances can change your genome, not just change the way that you feel or your memories. They can actually impact you on a genetic level and that can be passed down. Now, you get perilously close to like ancestral trauma and stuff here, but there was a study done on pregnant women who entered poverty during their pregnancy. interesting. Poverty is a very reliable stressor. It's a very reliable way to make you uh it it it it's really ruthless because being in poverty takes up so much of your mental stress and getting out of poverty becomes more difficult. It's a really vicious sort of catch-22 um trap. And uh they were able to show genetic uh changes in the kids. And here's the wild thing. When when your grandmother was pregnant with your mother, the egg that was going to make you was inside of your grandmother. Because when a a female baby is born, they're born with all of the eggs that they will have for the entirety of their life. So, at one point, there was grandmother, mother, and egg that would make you all inside of the same person. Jesus Christ. Anyone else hard? This is a lot going on here. Man. Boy, the the human body, it is wacky. It is. But my point being that um you know, the stress that people go through and you're totally right. I mean, that those photos of Barack Obama before you know, cuz he went in and it's you look at someone like Joe Biden or Trump and you're like he's kind of I it's not exactly looking his best all going in. Yeah. Whereas Barack was he was this sort of sprightly and handsome dude black guy. going in and then he comes out and he's very lined face and the gray hair is very and some guys just cross that threshold in any case. Like me and you have got a little the gray coming in on the on the old beard. But yeah, I think um just giving people a bit more grace. And I find this in myself as well, you know, playing the making a judgment about someone, making a a very quick um call about, oh, well, that's that's because they're a bad person or that's because they're untrustworthy, whatever. I'm like, hang on a second, you don't know anything about them. Yeah. You've seen this small thing and you're arguing to for people to give more leeway. Both of us today have been saying, oh, why don't we try and just, you know, see the best in people as best we can. And maybe we even need to do that with the ones that are trying to push the narrative. You know, Schultz taught me about how he thinks internally it's not coordination, it's cowardice. Just people scared of losing their jobs. Yeah. People don't believe that and you think, well, cowardice is pretty bad and it's caused a lot of evil [ __ ] to happen. Sure. But still, like yeah, just God, slowing down, slowing it all down and being a little bit more forgiving to people But we we do look to like the outlandish, brash people kind of like Muhammad Ali, you know, in the '60s like, I'm the greatest. I'm the I'll kill anybody. And you're you're sitting there in your little house as a kid going like, whoa, you're not supposed to be that arrogant. And he's doing it and he's a he's a killer out there in the ring. So, I think comedy has that where it like, holy [ __ ] Tim Dillon just said that. You're not supposed to say those things. Oh my god, and it's fun. Richard Pryor was the king of that or George Carlin. How so? Well, Pryor Pryor was so revolutionary because like you had Cosby, you had Flip Wilson, you had Moms Mabley, but he was out there like, I'm going to say the real [ __ ] I'm not going to walk the line. I'm going to make fun of whitey. I'm going to say the N-word a bunch. And he's smoking and he's dirty. And then Carlin was like, what's up with this? What's up with that? Uh he made fun of the the man the establishment and that's what was fun about it and they got pushed back but now we have the internet so you can get pushed back right to your door where is before you just got like you know a letter from the Catholic Church or something. In other news this episode is brought to you by just meets. If you're looking for more high quality ready made protein delivered directly to your door just meets is the answer. It's grass-fed and grass-finished beef pre-cooked and pre-seasoned and it is ready in 2 minutes. 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I was found a study that recently was done deplatforming norm violating influencers on social media reduces overall online attention toward them. From politicians to podcast hosts online platforms have systematically banned deplatformed influential users for breaking platform guidelines. Previous inquiries into the effectiveness of the this intervention were inconclusive because one they consider only a few deplatforming events, two they consider only overt engagement traces like likes and posts but not passive engagement like views, three they do not consider all the potential places users are impacted by this deplatforming event might migrate to. They did this huge study a quasi experimental study of 165 deplatforming events targeted 101 influencers. They looked at Reddit and then manually curated the data and did all of this stuff through a difference in difference approach we found that deplatforming reduces online attention. After 12 months we estimate that online attention toward deplatformed influencers is reduced by 63% and on Google by 43% on Wikipedia. Wow, so this is a really effective thing. 63% on Google and 43% further as we study over 100 deplatforming events we can analyze in which cases deplatform is more or less impactful revealing nuances about the intervention. Notably we find that both permanent and temporary deplatforming reduce online attention toward influencers. Overall this work contributes to the ongoing efforts to map the effectiveness of content moderation interventions driving platform governance away from speculation. So we got some hard and fast data 63% on Google and 43% on Wikipedia from deplatforming. That sucks for those influencers who were part of this test. They're like great now I'm [ __ ] because you had to run a test on me. I think that it was they looked at existing deplatforming events. Your Alex Jones's your Milo Yiannopoulos your Tate's or whatever would have been looked at and I've never understood the whole oh it's a Streisand effect you know it makes people more it's very I mean Shane is I'm trying to think Kanye He was already huge before but Chappelle already huge before so yeah that you kind of have to have a base. And you have this leeway as well and it's all about optics you know I think that Kanye's in an interesting position because he genuinely doesn't care doesn't seem to care and then Jesus God damn it I missed I was watching the Super Bowl I even texted you during it. But I missed the Kanye ad advert. Yeah yeah it was awesome. I only saw it after the event. Yeah just him on a phone hey I spent 7 billion bucks buy my album thank you. So good and it worked he made millions on it. Yeah but so he kind of doesn't care as is evident by his handheld Super Bowl vertically shot Super Bowl advert and then Chappelle and and Shane have got this like it's you know they gift people joy in a way so I don't know I feel like you you guys I said this ages ago that I feel like everyone should do stand up once so that they always have the ability to say hey I'm just a comedian. They've just got that as the get out of jail free card. Well my thing is look you can hate the comic you can hate the message the guy has to say or the girl is saying but like why does it have to go away? Like why the deplatforming? Why can't you just go that's not for me? You know when you're on campus and they're doing like a you know a trans drum circle for climate change you go all right I'm I'm not going to that I'm going to get drunk but you're not going to go we got to shut this down and that's the part that bugs me is like why the shutting down? That's so that's so Trumpian. All these people who hate Trump are very dictatory. You know same like defund the police people tend to make a lot of rules also so I'm like you're just policing everything. It's very mirrored. I saw this a house just around the corner from where I live that's got defund the police sign in the front garden and every single morning I see this and a private security sticker in the front window. Yeah there you go. Every single time that I walk past it I think like is this a joke? And it's like is this a joke? And it's like is this a joke? And it's like is this a joke? And it's like is this a joke? on the private jet to give his lectures about climate change. You know the the the Republican senator who's like God hates [ __ ] but he's blowing a guy in the rest stop. You know there's this overcompensation of like you got to do this I'm not doing that but you got to do it. So the the closest thing is luxury beliefs. Ooh do tell. So a friend Rob Henderson's re-popularized this it's not his original invention but he says luxury beliefs are beliefs held by the upper classes that bestow status on them but incur costs on people of Oh that's good. Yeah so defund the police is a a perfect example of this. Another one that's kind of obvious is two-parent households have no advantage or getting married has no advantage for raising a child. So you look at the number of college graduates and people in the upper echelons of society almost all of them are married in monogamous relationships with a classic nuclear family setup. And the lower classes that may believe this particular narrative that's pushed by them are the ones that suffer in the same way as you behind your gated community tweeting yeah we really need to you know these police are racist and we don't we they shouldn't be there and all the rest of it. It's like yeah but you're not a black guy from inner city Chicago. Yeah exactly. I know and it looks good on paper like I saw in California they're doing a thing where they're lowering test standards for black kids cuz they're having trouble in school and I'm like I guess that's nice cuz more will pass but you're [ __ ] them in the future. Like isn't that way worse? There's a huge problem in Illinois at the moment in the schooling system some huge percentage of kids can't read at grade level and then they finish high school and they get out and it's just there's not there's nothing there. They finish like K through 12 they've maths ability is way behind where they should be reading comprehension is way behind where they should be. You think what are you learning? I know. It's scary. Are you following the Roland Fryer? No. Oh this is right up your anal baby. This is this is Chris all day long. I don't want to get too much into it but he's a Harvard guy Harvard professor very like the youngest black professor at Harvard to get tenure or whatever you call it I don't know. Brilliant guy. From the hood black guy made it to Harvard did it wrote a bunch of books esteemed everybody loves him. He started doing studies on police and black you know crime and all that and he came out with a study that there's actually way less black death from police than we think and they're not actually going after black people as much as we think they are. This is his study. He couldn't believe the numbers cuz of you know cuz what we've been hearing for years and years. So he did it he did it for a year with eight interns working under him. He couldn't believe the numbers so he said let's do another year and do it again with eight different people just to make sure we got it and it came out the same way and everybody at Harvard is like don't put this out it'll ruin you. Which goes back to what I was saying about how I'm okay with the [ __ ] but at least let me acknowledge it. They don't even want you to acknowledge it you know so he's like I'm putting this out this is data it's facts. They're like it doesn't look good don't put it out. They tried to get him fired they tried to ruin him they tried to meet to him they tried all these things. He beat everything and he put it out and now he has an armed guard with him all day long cuz he's getting death threats. So he's got his kid at the grocery store with a [ __ ] security guard. And the irony of like hey I'm just saying it's not as bad out there for black people as we think to saying that to now needing protection from a cop. I mean the whole thing's wacky and I'm not saying he's right or wrong folks don't come after me. I'm just saying this is happening in America right now and it's fascinating. That's wild. I've got a friend Carol Hooven who wrote a book about testosterone and she when she did Rogan's show she cried I think four times Whoa. when she did my show she cried at least three times. We we went we went for breakfast in Austin I think she cried twice at breakfast. What? She's just a very emotional lady. It's in like joy and sadness and stuff too and like she'll talk she'll start talking about her son and immediately start welling up. She just loves loves her son. Anyway she talks about biological differences between men and women. Spicy. She was at Harvard. She had I think it was one of the most popular courses of undergraduates in psychology. I think it was like some insane number. It might have been 500 people that attended this particular course that she did. Really interesting course and after she did the Rogan thing and then the book came out and then she maybe posted a couple of things as well. None of her teaching assistants were prepared to work with her. So these are postgrads usually doing a PhD or something and they'll be part of some lab, but you need your TAs. You need the teaching assistants. Tits and ass. Cuz Sorry. Sorry. TA. I'm listening. You need You need that to help you cuz if huge classes marking work and and they kind of assess during the lecturing. I've got a few friends in Austin here that work as TAs for their professors, the head of their labs and [ __ ] And that's like soft cancel. That she was being pushed out. How can you do your course if no one will work with you? Of course. there wasn't backup from the dean and there wasn't the rest of it and she's out now. She's out. She's been pushed out. I'm pretty sure she had tenure which is supposed to be the protection that you need and then she was part of this Bill Ackman thing, you know, where he called out Claudine Gay Oh, right. Right. Harvard and all this stuff a couple of months ago. But the weird thing there and I spoke to her about this, she was basically used as a very fortunate political football to be kicked around. See how perfect this is shows that the woke mob are trying to push people out that say things that aren't egregious and no one This is something I haven't really thought of before. No one considered what she wanted as a part of this. So she's already lost her job. Good point. But just because she's a very Same with Shane. Like Shane strikes me as a large ruddy robust guy. Yeah. And you using him as an example of somebody who went through difficulty with SNL to then sort of come out the other side of it. I don't I don't feel that he's taking that as oh you you know, you've retriggered my PTSD from this awful incident that occurred to me 5 years ago. He doesn't strike me. But the woman that cried five times on a podcast maybe does. Yeah, right. This is you know, Do we care about people's feelings or not? Yes. It just comes back to trying to give people a bit more grace. Yes. There you go. It's We shouldn't be boiled down to this one one tweet or one thing we said or one joke we made or or one thing this lady did, you know, but that's that's what we do. And I think we have negativity bias. So we go, this is the thing. [ __ ] you. And you're like, what about all the good I did? And they're like, ah. Forget about that. Forget about it. Shane actually has a great sketch on uh Oh, the [ __ ] What have you been eating? the lounge. It's horrible food. So Shane has a great sketch where he's a fireman. He saved a bunch of people's lives and the the the guy's like, wow, did you just save that whole burning building, you know, the babies, the women, everything. Yeah, yeah, that was me. And he goes, looks like I found some tweets from last year and it says this this and that, you know, it's gay and whatever. And he's like, oh yeah, why are you pulling that up? He's like, dude, what are you doing to me? And it's a nice It's kind of a nice microcosm of what's going on like this gotcha [ __ ] But the guy just saved building full of people. So enough. Sorry, not good enough. Yeah. But I feel like are we talking about this too much? I'm worried that uh No, no, you're not. So I've got something I want to teach you about. Women are loving men who embrace baby girl vibe and ditch toxic masculinity. Delving into the new trend of baby girl following Jacob Elordi, Timothy Chalamet, Pedro Pascal and more. This includes men carrying purses, wearing shorts and sequins and embracing traditionally feminine aspects. A man who is a baby girl comes across as sweet, charming, a bit bashful and seemingly in touch with their feminine side, ready to talk about their feelings or carry a purse to brunch at any point. Heterosexual women, especially Gen Z's, are rusting which means romanticizing and lusting. I thought rusting would might mean something else. After men that they consider to be baby girl. This trend signals a sharp departure from the uber masculine sex symbols of previous generations, the lady explained to the post. And men outside the limelight are taking note. Think the definition of what is masculine is changing. The director of Talkify matchmaking service told the post, some traditional masculine norms are shifting. Masculinity today is not about being a tough guy, but about being honest, respectful, protective and emotionally expressive. About 31% of American men have actively changed their behavior to become more vulnerable and open with people they are dating according to Bumble's 2024 dating trends report. Well, I think this is nothing new. You know, like like Mick Jagger, David Bowie, they they all went through this like What do you What do you call that when you're you're kind of feminine and masculine. Androgynous. Androgynous. Like I think this is you know, in the 60s guys grew their hair long and every dad was like, you [ __ ] homo. Like look at this Get a haircut, [ __ ] And I think that was crazy then, you know, having long hair or tight pants or whatever. So I think this is just this is just another swing of this and masculinity is the norm. So we got to go against the norm and then eventually baby girl whatever will be the norm and then being masculine will be weird. So that'll be in. So I think it just it all just flips. Everyone's attracted by whatever looks novel. Yes. See, that's a better way to concise way to say it. I've been Me and my housemate have been thinking a lot about things that are [ __ ] that you don't realize are [ __ ] So trying to pick up a moving ping pong ball. That's a great one. Very [ __ ] Starting a stopped bicycle. Oh, yeah. That kind of awkward. Yep. Oh, I got one. You know when you close the door and it doesn't close the car door and it doesn't doesn't latch all the way and you got to give it that booty bump. I hate the booty bump, but you got to do it. These are great. This could be like a Tik Tok running series. Wearing as a man wearing a towel wrapped around your upper chest rather than wrapped around Yeah, your waist. Oh, I got another one. You know, standing like this is very masculine, but if you just rotate it like that, it's so much gayer. What is that? Why? It's just the same hand, same hip, but if you flip it, you looks you look so much more feminine. Doing that thing when you wash your hands. You know, the interlace of the finger from behind. That's pretty That's pretty [ __ ] Turning He has Zach has one which is turning around ever. So if you walk past the entrance to somewhere, you're going around the block and coming back in cuz if you go and then turn around, that's pretty [ __ ] That's good. He had one at dinner the other evening which we were sat outside and the receipt blew off the front of the table and we've been talking about things that are [ __ ] that you don't realize are [ __ ] for 6 months now. This is gold. We've accumulated this huge big long list of I could go for the rest of the podcast. And I was watching that and we hadn't come up with chasing a receipt blown in the wind and I was watching it happen and sure enough the wind picked up and as he sort of you know, you bend over and you that and then it goes away again and I was and he came back over and went, this is adding this is being added to the list, isn't it? That's a great one. It's getting added to the list. I would say applying chapstick can be pretty bad. Banana, classic. Oh, I Oh, a heavy door. You ever have a You ever door WHERE YOU'RE LIKE, OH, IT TAKES ALL THE MANLY CONFIDENCE out of you when the door's too heavy. Sleeping in a blanket with your arms all the way under as opposed to having your arms out. Oh, interesting. I think that's pretty [ __ ] Holding a coffee mug with both hands. Yes. That's a great one. Massively [ __ ] My wife, she says if I see a guy with flip flops, her vagina is just just sewing up. Like the the those ones like The thong. It's the idea of that thing between the toe that really freaks her out. She's like, it slides, I'll do a slide, but the thong is what gets you. Which is interesting because Crocs are obviously the most sexually arousing type of footwear that are that are available. You know what my favorite thing about Crocs are? That that flap, that little ankle holder. If you put that up, it's called sport mode which to me is like, what are we kidding? No, that's sport This is that Look, I just What sport? What are you going to go run a mile with that? You going to play football? Someone's There is a Croc marathon Come on. record. Really? Yep. There's a Croc mile and there's a Croc marathon record. People can go and look this look this up online. I will. I'm sure it's elite athletes. Yeah, well, I look, I think that Do you know what the beer mile is? Have you heard of this? Okay, well, it's I think it's technically called the Chunder Mile, but you do I think four laps of a 400 meter track which would be 1.6k. I think that's a mile. I think 1.6 or maybe that you start a tiny bit behind the line or something to absolutely nail it. And at the beginning of each mile at the beginning of each lap, you drink a bottle of beer, I think. Or maybe it's a pint. I think it's a pint of beer. So it's four pints and four laps of a running track. One mile. And this is a very prestigious in the running world. Super prestigious record. Super Like the guy that wins it There's an entire channel that's that's committed to it and they track all of the things and there's people that and they've got, you know, tactics for how they're going to drink and it's not just your ability to run, it's your ability to not run and not throw up and it's called the Chunder Mile because as soon as everybody finishes four pints, 2 liters of beer just comes back out of them. And it's a like highly held Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. This should be televised. This is way more way better than pickleball. Dude, I think I do love pickleball. I adore pickleball. Problem is it's the it's got the highest disparity between how fun it is to watch Yeah. it is to play. Great point. So true. boring sport to watch. It's like scissoring. Way more fun to do. Watching scissor guy don't love. But yeah, you're right. And I always say pickleball is like COVID cuz it swept the nation and old people love it and fat people are scared of it. Have you played padel? Have you tried that? No, is that paddle? paddle, whatever. I don't know how I I'm around some people that are European and they call it But I think that maybe padel is something different to paddle. I don't know. Anyway, I tried to play it It's called J. in Miami and I've decided that pickleball is tennis for old people Yeah. and padel is tennis for rich people because it's all everyone that's there has got some Got it. nice Rolex on and everyone's like I don't know. It just It was very strange sport and I'm all for pickleball and I think that padel can go [ __ ] itself. Okay. Okay, yeah. Pickleball to me is so perfect. I don't want to try anything different cuz I love it. play indoors or outdoors? Oh, you must be playing indoors in New York. You'd be playing indoors. mostly indoors, but there's a basketball court two blocks away from my house and it's just been the basketball's over. It's all pickleball. It's a bunch of yuppies out there with little nets going at it. I would love to see street ball New York players Yeah. coming up against iced soy frappuccino. Right. Right. It's It's total gentrification of sports. of the sport Yeah. Yeah, it used to be like this gritty kind of Yeah, like real basketball court with like street guys. That's a great skit. If you did It's the pickleball gentrification. It's got nothing to do with the number of Starbucks that you've got or whether or not there's a Chipotle. That's when you know that someone's been fully gentrified when there's a Chipotle. And and then it would just be through pickleball. All that you would do is find different courts to put pickleball in and that would sort it out. Yeah, I grew up in a primarily black neighborhood and I used to skateboard back when skateboarding was like It was like a grungy white guy thing in the 90s. Now there's all It's all over the place, which is great. But we built a skate park and it happened to be next to a basketball court and it came We came back one day and it was burned down. And it was kind of like this racial thing. Like, hey, don't don't take our basketball court. Yeah, it was heavy. New Orleans is hardcore. It really is. It's a wild place. We'll get back to talking to Mark in 1 minute, but first I need to tell you about Element. Stop having coffee first thing in the morning. Your adenosine system that caffeine acts on isn't even active for the first 90 minutes of the day, but your adrenal system is and salt acts on your adrenal system. Element contains a science-backed electrolyte ratio of sodium, potassium, and magnesium that helps to curb cravings, regulate your appetite, and improve your brain function. There's a reason that I continue harping on about Element. It's a product I've used for over 3 years every single morning that I wake up, whether I'm on the road or at home, I start my day by having one of these in water because it really does help. It tastes phenomenal. It's got no sugar in it, no gluten, no fillers, no other artificial junk, or BS, and it really makes me feel fantastic. Best of all, there's a no BS, no questions asked refund policy with an unlimited duration, so you can buy it right now completely risk-free. And if you do not like it for any reason, they will give you your money back and you don't even need to return the box. That's how confident they are that you'll love it. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of all eight flavors by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklmnt.com / modernwisdom. I've seen videos of you uh shredding. Treading? Shredding. That's Oh, shredding. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, recently. You still I was pretty good. I'm I'm an old queef now. I can't I'm crackly and stiff, but I was pretty good in the day. That's all I did all day every day. Wow. Very similar to stand-up. A lot of parallels. Have you tried wake surfing? No. That's fun. What's that? So wakeboarding is the one where you're quite far behind the boat and you're kind of strapped into this thing and that's when they do the crazy flip. Yeah. And it's super fast. It's usually maybe 25, 30 miles an hour. Fun but also if you wipe out at 20 or 30 miles an hour, you feel it and you're attached to this board thing. Wake surfing is much slower. It's like 11 miles an hour and you're actually surfing up and down, carving up and down the wake that's made by the boat. So you'll have seen people. It's where they're you know, as far as from me to the wall behind a boat and they're kind of With a rope? Uh with a rope but then you let go of the rope. Okay. Cuz the boat makes a particular shape wake Ah, yes. you're goofy, then you can have it on the other You can The boats can usually switch side. So it can make a smooth arc and um I did that obsessively I've been doing that pretty obsessively for 2 years since I've been here. Really? Yeah, but I didn't have the background in skating Yeah. and my friend Alex O'Connor who is a philosophy, theology hyper nerd, debates Ben Shapiro and Jordan Peterson and all of these people. Yeah, he's great. He's phenomenal. Doesn't strike you as someone that would be a master of physicality but he had this background in skateboarding and I'd been trying so ages. This is a year ago when he came out. He wore a suit to a boat party and it's like the true philosopher. Yeah. And uh first time that he gets pulled along in the rope, stands up, no problem. So there is a skill set I think inside of people that did skateboarding as a kid or some sort of balance sport, dance probably, other stuff. Uh put a ball in a padel or a bat in my hand I'm laughing. But balance sports Interesting. Yeah, I think there's two kinds of people. The people who want to go straight forward like skiing and then the people who want to go sideways like surfing or snowboarding. And I'm a sideways guy all day long. I snowboard. I don't like being straight up. It's It's It freaks me out. Is that weird? I don't know. I saw a video of the first time that snowboarding was introduced to the slopes of America Mhm. and all of these sort of old granola grizzled ski guys that were running the the slopes or whatever were saying that they're like missiles and they're super dangerous and they wouldn't let them on the the lifts. The lifties wouldn't let them on. So they had to trek up and then they'd find some unprotected part of the mountain and they'd snowboard down. But yeah, they saw it as this It was a travesty to the world of snow sports. And this was only in the the 80s, I think. See, that's how it goes. Whenever something's new, it's attacked. Yes. But it It everything The car was attacked, you know? Like anything new that comes out, people will go at it and they say this is horrible. Like the the self-driving cars are coming. You know, everybody's like, that's crazy. They're going to run people over, blah blah. But I'm like, they're coming. There's a pretty good amount of evidence I think even now with the data sets that they're playing with and the level of sophistication, which is obviously going to get better as there's more training sets. It's way even now way safer than a human driver. Like the There you go. profile is lower, but there's something strange about if you're in an accident that happens because of a person I wonder I'm trying to work out whether there's something more reassuring about putting your life in the hands of other people and yourself or outsourcing it to an algorithm. Yeah. were in a crash that crippled yourself would it be easier to deal with Ooh, good point. than because of some bug in a computer code or the fact there was a a weirdly shaped cone and it caused it to swerve off the road. Oh my god, that is scary. Now you're you're suing a corporation instead of you're getting mad at yourself. Yes. I wonder if I really don't know what the humans I guess it's going to change person to person, but on average I don't know how people feel about that. I don't know if they would feel more comfortable being injured by their own hand or surviving at the behest of an AI. Yeah. Ooh, that's dark. I guess I'd rather myself. But that's no good either. Yeah. It's a It's a lose-lose. Yeah. Well, that was that Cat Williams thing was that he said was interesting. Like in the future, you'll There's no police chase cuz the car will just be tuned into the internet or satellites or whatever. So if you're in a getaway the car will just stop and the cops will get you. The dude who lives across the street from me, his insurance for his Tesla is organized by Tesla. I didn't realize that you could go full stack manufacturer and uh insurance company. The problem is that Tesla has access to the metrics diagnostics that come out of his car and they know how close he drives to the cars in front. They know how fast he accelerates and brakes and his insurance premiums are higher because of his uh more dangerous driving style. There you go. That's why I never heard this story. I can't believe that's not broken on the internet. I know. But yeah, if you get your car insurance through Tesla because they know the metrics and the diagnostics of how you drive and they've got the whizzing around thing to see how close you are to other cars. They know how close you came to an accident every single time you need to know. Ah, I don't like that. I don't like that information out there. I I have a 1973 BMW with crank windows and a stick shift. It like you If you don't buckle up, it doesn't go boo boo boo boo, you know? It just It's all analog and I love that. I like cash. I'm not one of these libertarian off-the-grid but I do like a little bit of Leave me alone. You know, you don't want to be dialed in like these people pay for everything with their phone. All that [ __ ] is a paper trail. I don't like it. It makes me nervous. Too connected. Speaking about [ __ ] from the past, I found a job advert for Ernest Shackleton. So Ernest Shackleton was the British explorer who first went across the Antarctic on foot unsupported. Okay. So he needed a crew. I think it was about between 18 and and sort of 25 people went with him. There was a stowaway, actually, which is pretty interesting. There's a great book great book by Alfred Lansing called Endurance, which was the name of the ship. And they leave in 1914. And they actually were due to leave the day after World War I was announced, and they sent a message to the king asking whether or not he still wanted them to go. They were all men of military age with military experience, and you know, they were rough fighting robust dudes. And they said, "Look, if you don't want us to do this thing, even though we've been planning it for ages, we're not going to go." And he sent back like, "Crack on. We'll we'll beat the Germans on our own." But he put a job advert out, and it's one of the best job job adverts I've ever heard. It says, "Men wanted for hazardous journey, low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in event of success." Wow, I love that. So cool. Yeah, now who are the guys who read that and go, "This is me"? Apparently there was he was way oversubscribed. Really? That kind of gives me hope. I mean, what year are we talking? Uh 1914. Oh, that would have been probably 1912. Well, you got to think back then like you ever seen the movie 1917? Yes. About the the World War I and the British kids got like five cuts in the entire movie. Yes. Yes, amazing movie. But they show these kids and they're like, "Hell yeah, I'm signing up for war. What else are we doing? We work in a mill. I'm I'm homeless. I'm toothless. I'm a chimney sweep. I'm a you know, I'm just a Oliver Twist limey, you know, loser kid." So they all signed up cuz they had nothing else going on. You know, and I think that there's probably a lot of that back then, too. Like adventure? Hell yeah, I work in a factory. Yeah. So I think we're missing that. Yeah, I think so. Well, there's just so many other things that people can do. Of course. Convenience and comfort and and distraction and entertainment and all the rest of it. There was a a Tik Tok that was put up that I saw by a girl that said something like you're going to make me a little girl go to war. I'm sat here eating cereal in my pajamas for the third time today. Oh. And the I think you know, you wouldn't be sending that 21-year-old girl off to war no matter what. But the sense the subtext is there are other things that I can do with my time that entertain me. Mhm. Whereas men wanted for hazardous journey, low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness, safe return doubtful, honor and recognition in event of success. Someone to go, "Well, I'm in the alternative is to just stay here in Leicester Yeah. or Manchester or something." Yeah, so I think we need to teach people sometimes you should go towards the discomfort instead of just all everything is comfort like Uber Eats, Netflix and chill, Tinder. You don't have to approach the girl. You can just Tinder her. Everything is getting more and more more and more dialed into less effort and ease, and I think that will [ __ ] us if it hasn't already. There's a a website called Spurious Correlations. It's one of the best things that I found. So this guy is tracking thousands and thousands of different metrics, and he's looking for correlations between the two of them. I like that. So the total rainfall in San Francisco correlates with the number of printing press operators in Rhode Island for some reason. Whoa. The number of people who die by drowning in backyard pools and the total volume of Nicholas Cage movies released in a single year are the same. Wow, that's wild. So just because he's uh US bottled water consumption per person and the solar power generated in the Sudan like very I mean, you know, this each other. This is Wow. super strongly correlated. It's like a time travel [ __ ] You step on a roach in an 1801 and it affects Yeah, there you go. Yeah, the number of movies Nicholas Cage appeared in and votes for the Libertarian presidential candidate in Georgia. Like and it's a Dude, that's a tight [ __ ] correlation that. Wow. That's a You know, there's that study that men who kiss their wives before going to work in less car accidents. No way. yeah. So there's all This this is this is cool stuff. Yeah, I love [ __ ] like that. There was a really great story in uh Matthew Walker's book Why We Sleep talking about um the impact of low sleep on surgeons and doctors that work in hospitals. And I can't remember what the shift's called. It's like a a a triple shift or a or a a night special night shift or something, and they're awake for this insane amount of time. And the percentage of surgeons and doctors who do these shifts and then get in car accidents and are redelivered back to the same hospital where they were just working to get looked after. Right. Uh the same thing happens around daylight savings. So when we lose an hour uh the number of heart attacks I think incre or strokes or something increases by 25% and so do road accidents. Whoa. same thing is decreased on the other side when you just give people an hour more sleep. Right. And they tested this with uh college or high school students in a particular town, and they allowed their I think instead of getting into class at 9:00 a.m. or 8:30 a.m. it was 10:30 a.m. And the total road traffic accidents in the entire city went down by statistically significant amount. Jesus. Teenagers have a later go to bed and get up time. Sure. For the parents of teenagers uh you don't have some dysfunctional broken child. It's just that's the way that their body clock tend to operate. Right. They're staying up late and and getting up late. Uh but yeah, the the impact of of that sort of stuff is uh it's crazy. when Uber came out, cities lost so much money because DUIs went way down. DUIs bring in a ton of income to the city, you know, with legal fees and police and whatever. So yeah, that that everything correlates. It's all connected, baby. The great magnet. That's cool. Yeah, I um so I've got my car now. I I did it. Good for you. Thank you. Right side of the road. Yeah. Well, whatever. I'll get used to it. Um but I've still I've managed to habituate using Uber so much Yeah. that there's still time where I'm like, "I'm just going to It's to think that you can get from where you are to where you need to be for 15 bucks I know. driver that arrives at your house when you want him there, and then he'll drop you off exactly where you need to be, and you're pretty safe, and if there's a problem you can call an SOS thing, and you know exactly how long it There's no parking. It's like a hooker. You just you leave. You know, there's no attachment. That's the best part of a hooker and Uber is it's just it's over. We're done here. Have you ever used the comfort thing on Uber, and then you get to select your preferred temperature and your amount of conversation? No. So you know, there's UberX, Uber Priority, Uber Comfort, XL, blah blah blah blah, black and all this stuff. And um one of them is comfort, and if you select comfort in certain cities, you can select the temperature and the conversation. I love that. preferred. Cuz I mean, let's be honest. We've all gotten that Uber and it's like crazy loud music, and the guy's seat is way back, and you're like, "This sucks." And then the guy's got crazy BO. BO should be on there, too, by the way. If we're going to do music and conversation, deodorant should be part of that. But yeah, no. That Some of these Ubers are a little brazen, you know, with the [ __ ] they they get away with. Have you ever gotten one where someone's had either their friend or their partner with them? No, I've never seen that. That's hilarious. happened a bunch of times. Happened in London a couple of times to me. Someone's just there like hanging out with their wife or girlfriend Really? or whatever. And they're just in the front seat, and they're just like nattering away, and you just sort of join this short family vacation from where you're going to where you end up. That's wild, yeah. Uber gets a little too comfortable sometimes. But is it amazing we lived without Uber? Yeah. Like the fact that like I don't know how old you are. I'm 40. So like getting a cab was an issue. That was I'm I'm from New Orleans, so it wasn't like a yellow cab on the street like New York where you hail it. It was like call the company, set up a time, pray to God they show up. You got a flight to make. Yeah. That's insane that that we lived like that. Now I Uber eight times a day. Yeah. Yeah, it's phenomenal. And I understand that there was problems and pushback from taxi driver people because it was taking over. But it's just so much better. It's so much better. Taxis [ __ ] up. They got too too comfortable. Yeah. They thought that they had it all sorted out. Yeah, I am I really love really really love Uber. I do, too. Like I'd go to sleep at my friend's house, and my parents would be like, "I can you come get me?" And they're like, "Ah, okay." Now they'd just be like, "Uber." Yeah. That's so easy. There's in Ibiza, part of Spain, so the way that Spanish taxis work, yellow cars at night they have a little thing on the top, and if it's vacant it's green, and if it's taken it's red or off. And the number of times when I spent I went to Ibiza like 30 times in the space of now? You're that guy? No, I did it I did it. You can't say Ibiza? It's Ibiza. Is it a th? It is for us. Okay, okay. Z. Yeah, look. It's it's we're trying to Anglicize everything, taking over the country one mispronounced Good point. country at a time. Uh the amount of time that I've spent looking down a road waiting for a car with a green light to come on at some horrific after party as I'm coming down from a concoction of mystery drug and just thinking I really really want And then if I'd had an Uber I'd have been in bed. I'd have been in bed staring at the ceiling hating myself. Speaking of red light, green light, can I throw a fun nugget at you? Yeah. This this is why I'm obsessed with YouTube cuz [ __ ] just pops up. There's a town in There's a town called Syracuse, New York. It's a real [ __ ] box that used to be like a booming metropolis with like uh you know, manufacturing, and it all went overseas. So the town's kind of [ __ ] but there's an Irish neighborhood, the only one in the country has a stoplight, only one in the country that's the green light is on the top, and the red light is on the bottom. Why? Because the Irish immigrants who moved there in 19 whatever didn't like the British red being above the Irish green, so they flipped it. Like a couple of street toughs just went in overnight and flipped it, and it's the only one in America like that. And it's still like that. Still like that. Yeah, so that just shows people are people are serious about their ideologies. I forgot to teach you about this thing. I learned about poor sleep quality is linked to self-defeating humor and profanity. Oh my god, that's me. I was going to say this explains the entire comedy world. In a novel explanation into the intricate ways our physical states impact our use of words, researchers have discovered a fascinating link between poor sleep quality and an increased use of specific types of arousing language, namely humor and curse words. The study, published in current psychology, explains that those experiencing poor sleep quality may be more inclined to use arousing forms of language as a physiological mechanism to counteract feelings of tiredness. So, they make themselves a target of a joke. That's more common more commonly reported among participants that experience more sleep problems. Noticeable relationship between sleep quality and the frequency of curse word usage. Wow, that's pretty good. See, these correlations are great. Yeah, but this one's actually this isn't spurious. This is study study not not spurious. But, I think especially being British, there's a problem Americans have a problem with you peppering a sentence with swear words. Yeah. He's good. Where he's pretending to play the drums and each different part of the drum is a swear word. And he says as Scottish people it just come sort of falls out of you very very quickly. Whereas with Americans it's you are apart from maybe the comedy world, much more sort of uptight around profanity. There's still a big concern. I mean, I used the C-word Wow, it's a different thing here. It's normal in in England. Here it's heavy duty. It's yeah, it's a real weapon of mass destruction. There's no other acceptable unacceptable more unacceptable acceptable word. Yes. After that, you're onto the N-word. You're into a real no man's land territory. Yeah, you call a woman a and it's it's fighting words. It's game on. Whereas you call your friends that in the UK. Yeah. So, yeah, it just learning recentering the scope of my linguistic usage and realizing what words are in and what words are out and what I can say and what I can't say. Yeah, yeah, we do we do the the F-word a lot. It's all a buffer. It's all like I'm trying to think of something, so I'll what's the name of that [ __ ] that drink you sell and it's it's not good and it's comics use it too much. The problem now is the word like. This is like an American epidemic. This is a real problem. You watch like Gen Z and all these people everything is like. You know, you watch a Candace Owens or something go yell at a college kid and they're going, "Well, like you you said like you were eating." It's like, "No, no, not like she was eating. She was eating." But, they they fill it with like and it's so [ __ ] frustrating. You sound dumber. It bleeds into everything. I had a really great conversation 2 years ago with a linguistic analysis lady and she was explaining what's going on here and they're referred to as filler words. So, found this out. This is fantastic. So, um and uh are two different use cases. People will um and uh at different times. Uh is knowing what they need to say, but searching for the word Okay. more commonly. And um is trying to work out the direction that they actually want to talk in. The reason being, if you were to just open your mouth and make a noise of talking, what you end up with is something like uh like it's that. It's just the noise of you use a MacBook and it's got that spinning colored wheel. It's the spinning colored wheel of linguistics. The Mitch McConnell. There you go. Perfect. Um that's it's holding pattern. And like has come in to say it is something approximating this Yes. thing that I'm about to say. That's what like is. But, it's also been used as a filler word and it's it's taken up both of those, which is why the frequency is increased so much. Great great point. Yeah, because it it is a useful word. This tastes like chicken. Yes. So, now we're going, "Okay, it's similar to chicken." Correct. But, everything has become I was reading like a book. No, you were reading a book. You were you were reading the Quran. Like just say the book. But, it's just a filler. But, you're right, it's a filler and it's a the other thing you said. Here's a second swearing study that I thought was brilliant. Repeating the F-word can improve threshold for pain. I've heard that. During an ice water challenge, recent study found that repeating the F-word during an ice water experiment increased subjects' tolerance and threshold for pain. However, reciting made-up swear words showed no such pain-reducing effects. Numerous studies have shown that the use of swear words can strengthen pain tolerance during an ice water experiment. UK researchers Stevens and Robertson set out to explore the mechanism behind this pain-relieving effect in a unique way. Team of specialists invented two new swear words with properties similar to known curse words. They then tested the invented words on a cold pressor experiment to see whether they would mimic the pain-reducing effect of known swear words. One theory suggests that the swearing produces analgesic effects through autonomic arousal caused by increased emotion. So, you're basically distracting yourself from what you're feeling by increasing the emotion inside of you. It's like getting angry and then punching something. Right. To explore this idea, researchers chose the made-up swear words fouch Ah. selected for its fouch. Yeah, what a fouch. selected for its emotion-provoking potential. Another theory suggests that swearing alleviates the pain by distracting attention away from the painful event. Researchers accordingly chose the second made-up curse word twizpipe for its potential to evoke distraction through humor. So, fouch and twizpipe don't work as well as just screaming the F-word if you're in pain. That makes sense, but twizpipe sounds like a slur for British people. Doesn't it? These [ __ ] twizpipes over here. Yeah, a little bit. I don't know, it's fascinating how language gets sort of used and abused. And I was thinking as I often do when I wake up first thing in the morning, was thinking about the N-word. And I it's so what did what did I seen? I'd seen Derek Poston doing his podcast. And I think they're playing it's kind of like Wheel of Fortune, but it's called Who's That N-word? Ah. And they show they put it up on the um on the screen and then they've got to guess. Is it all black people? Yes. Okay. And I was like it is absolutely wild and it's just the most liberal use of that it's every it's the thing like smattering a word with [ __ ] Right. Like or like. It's that. But, and I just thought it is so insane that we have this it's fascinating, isn't it? boundary around that particular word itself. I know. I blame slavery. It's the only reason that it could be this powerful. You know, because obviously it's silly. I grew up I went to public school and all my black friends would be like, "Come on, say it." And I was like, "I'm not saying it." They're like, "Come on." And then then eventually after an hour you'd say it and they WERE LIKE, "AH." SO, IT JUST PROVES LIKE, "OKAY, YOU CAN exist with a white person saying this word and not lose complete control and beat the [ __ ] out of me." But, it is that's just something about that word. It's just garnered this because people used to say it on the news and stuff in the '90s. No way. Oh, yeah. They'd be like they'd be reading like a police report and and they they they man said to read, you know, and it was just like you couldn't say it at somebody, but you could still say it. You could still reference it and now you can't even reference it. Wow. Yeah, and that that talk about empowering. That's the ultimate empowering. By the way, another thing white people invented, the N-word. But, and black people took it and made it cool. But, it is empowering that that is empowering. Like using it only you guys can use it and you can't and if you do, we get to [ __ ] you up. Yeah, it's it's really really when you try and think about it just from outside of the culture and knowing the history of it and how fraud it is. Yes. You realize this is so funny that we have this sort of arbitrary boundary that's drawn around this particular word. And it's hilarious. Whenever black comics use it, the joke is twice as funny. Correct. But, I have an idea and I tried this on stage, but it's too the world's not ready for this [ __ ] So, tell me what you would think, Thighs. All right, so what about an OnlyFans for racism? So, a black guy will be like, "You sign up for my OnlyFans and instead of seeing my vagina or seeing me my tits, you can call me the N-word for a fee." I think there's something here. And you can do it with Jews, Asians, gays. And you cuz people are going to say it anyway, so you might as well get the money from it. Right, so you're kind of like a punch bag for people's racism. It's like a let off valve. Yeah, yeah. Like talk about empowering. You read My friend I was it all started cuz I was bitching about people being mean to me in my comments on my videos. And my black friend's like, "Are you are you hurt? Look at me." And it's just N-word N-word N-word. I was like, "Oh, well, all right. You got me beat there. That's horrible." And I was like, "You it sucks that you can't harness this and get paid cuz women are like, 'I'm getting harassed all day. People are were at my cleavage. I'll make money off of it. It's too bad black people or Jews like Palestinians are signing for that all day. racism. Yes, wouldn't that be great? Wow, I didn't realize I wondered why um on a bunch of different comment sections, there was so many ninja emojis. Yeah. to get I had to have it translated by my housemate. I said, "Dude, what like what am I missing something?" And he laid it out for me. And I thought Ah. Ninja, please. Yeah. Exactly. The another friend that I had a a similar conversation with, he's got this he's got a disorder where he yelps in the night. Mhm. So, it's very common amongst men that are late 20s, early 30s, very common. And it's called parasomnia overlap disorder, POD. And um basically, if he's startled during the night, then he'll make a sort of a Woo! Like makes that kind of a noise. And we were away on a stag do, bachelor party, a year and a half ago. We were sharing it's one of those like the cheapest hotel that we could find in Leeds or Manchester or wherever we'd gone to. And everyone's in a single like a twin room with a single bed. Just classic British stag party. And uh I farted really loudly. So, what that resulted in was Woo! That was the one two punch. And uh I just remember thinking like what a phenomenal issue to have. It's if someone breaks in, you're an earlier earlier thing. If you've got some sort of an issue in the house, you're you're the You're the alarm. Yes, correct. But he doesn't wake up. No. So, he just gets But he wakes everyone else up. Okay, okay. So, he'll get killed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'll get killed by the intruder and first he'll go "Ah!" and then get stabbed. missus is awake. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Which helps. So, she can watch them come in and and and do that. That's nice. The sleep stuff is My brother used to sleepwalk. It's all wacky. Really? Sleepwalking's crazy. One time my mom found him naked sleepwalking and speaking French at a window. Yeah, cuz we were in French immersion when we were kids. So, he was naked staring at a window going "Je m'asseye quoi? Haha." you know, "Je m'appelle Mark." or whatever. And yeah, so sleepwalking's [ __ ] weird. Cuz the the psyche, you know, subconscious shit's coming out. I'd love to know why like what what it is or how that even work. Are you conscious? Are you unconscious? I think you're unco-like he doesn't remember it. The next morning he's like, "What? Really?" walking. You were upright. You know, you were presumably opening doors and doing stuff. Crazy. It's one of my friends is trying to lucid dream. Oh, yeah. So, he wants to be able to uh control his dreams and and understand what he's doing and then doing dream analysis. So, he's writing in a in a dream journal and stuff like that afterward. And I had a a weird dream last night about I was late for a lecture at university. I haven't been to university for 15 years. Late for a lecture at university and was held up by someone doing a photo shoot of horses. And I texted him and was like, "Dude, can you do some dream analysis on this? Do you know what it means?" Yeah. I I I'm not really too sure how I feel about analyzing your dreams as a deeper insight into your psyche. Yeah, it's hard to tell how accurate it is, but it is pretty cool. You know, you're like, "Oh, what does this mean? What does it mean when I'm like eaten by spiders?" And it means, "Oh, you're you're taking on too much work and you hate your dad." or whatever. So, yeah, that that is it. Fascinating. I'd love to know how accurate that is. It's the original Apple Vision Pro. The original VR, lucid dreaming. What is that? What are you doing with those on? I haven't put it on, although I've seen a bunch of people that have got it. Like a lot of people I know have sent theirs back. Really? Yeah, I mean it's four grand, dude. Plus you you need the battery pack and then you can buy a special bag for it and something else. Uh I don't know. Maybe people are watching porn. I'm not sure. But I I don't know. This the VR thing for me is the one area where it was promised that this was going to be, you know, world-changing, life-destroying technology. And as of yet, I just haven't seen anything like the mass adoption. And someone's tried to say, "Well, look, the Apple Vision Pro is the same as the first iPhone. Look at how much more developed iPhone 1 through 15 was." And they know now it's I was like, "Yeah, but I remember when the first iPhone came out and people couldn't wait to get a hold of it. It was itself a useful, revolutionary piece of kit. And no one sent it back. Yes. This I Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. I'm with you. But I mean, it just feels like we keep upping all this real virtual stuff. How long till it's going to be a go to a party and it's going to be like, "Let's just play Scrabble." Like that's going to be a novelty. At some We're going to get so far technologically that eventually it's going to be like, "Charades." Come around come around to my house and let's hold a garden hit some fence posts in cuz it's the only thing that's going to feel real. Exactly. And you're like, "Oh, my hand is cut. Whoa, how about that blood? This is crazy." Well, you kind of we were saying this even before we started. Like for every reaction or for every action, there's a reaction and then a counterculture re-reaction to everything. And then there's a group of people saying that the people that are talking about this, they're the real problem. It's a very predictable sequence of things that you go through. But you're already beginning to see in Austin people say, "I'm out. I I'm you know, I'm going to I'm full Ted Kaczynski in this. I'm going to get myself a ranch in Dripping Springs or in Bastrop." And two weeks ago I went to Bastrop to this dude's house. It's beautiful, amazing house. And it's just him and his wife and his dogs and their kid. And he just wakes up on a morning and goes for a dip in the river. And it's like he's regressed by a hundred years or a hundred fifty years. It's sort of agrarian life. And he's got "Oh, this is my the my tomatoes are coming in very nicely. I can see it's going to be a good harvest this year." or whatever it is. And I think that this is people doing the whole counterculture thing. I think so, but could you do that? That might be a personality thing, too. I could never live like that. I'd struggle to be away from people and novelty and stuff like that. This this is nice, you know, building up your channel, like goals and stuff. I can't just have the tomato. It doesn't fulfill me. I don't maybe it's an age it's definitely a predisposition thing, but yeah, the dopamine side of life is still fun. It's just that we're all way over clocked on it. Way over clocked. You got that right. And it's hard to go back. Once you get that taste, it's hard to go back to it's like success. It's hard to go down in success. You really hate yourself. There's a Will Smith bit from his memoir, which was written by Mark Manson, the guy that did The Subtle Art. He says um uh gaining fame is amazing, being famous is a mixed bag, and losing fame is terrible. Wow, that's so good. Yep. So true. And look at the slap. Yeah. I mean, that's a that's a big decline. Nose dive to no fame. Isn't he filming I Am Legend 2? He is, yeah. I mean, that could be the salvage moment. Better be good. Yes. If it's bad, then every single knife that someone has got behind their back is going to come out. Yeah. And diddling with it. Kind of cool though how much it helped Chris Rock. Has it? Well, I don't know about mentally. I'm sure that that'll [ __ ] you up to get slapped on live TV and the whole world saw it. Uh by the way, that that was just such an insane moment. That's never happened before. happened. Yeah, that happened. It's real. All these conspiracies, it's real. But his special did better that year than anyone else's cuz we're all like, "I got to hear about this." And it it's kind of nice when the country all knows about We're all so splintered. So, when the country all knows about one thing, it's kind of nice. You know, that's why COVID was kind of interesting cuz it was the first time we were global since like the Olympics. Correct. But there was one moment, you know, for six weeks from March 2020, where everyone was kind of in it together. Yeah. You know, I knew what it was like to be in Wuhan, China. What it was like to be in New York City. Everyone was locked down. Everyone was scared. Everyone was uncertain about what was going to happen. Sure. Then very, very quickly it just came back to Ah, damn it. I know. So quick. We will go negative quick. But yeah, that slap was wild. And that was kind of cool for comedy because you had to hear about it. You know, Chris Rock's already a great orator. Now we're going to hear him talk about this that we all know about. And then it's kind of like Richard Pryor, he lit his hair on fire and went to jail in the 70s. And he did a special about it. And it was it's probably the best special of all time. It's called Live in Concert. And he did he talks about the whole thing, but he does it hilariously. He shoots his car. He hits his wife. He does drugs. It's he goes to jail. It's great. It's interesting that uh you need everyone to have an insight about one thing. It's like if everyone Well, I guess this is one of the reasons why COVID and masks and vaccines and stuff were such a a popular talking point because you know that everyone knows what you're talking about. Yes, yes, totally. So, the buy-in, you know, if you start doing a joke about some obscure skater that you liked in the 90s, you don't have sufficient background information for it to be funny. Yeah. For it to really be interesting unless it's a super accessible story. But yeah, that's the that's the consistent trend. When something happens that's completely global, it's so easy for people to wrap themselves around that narrative. Yes. Yeah, I mean it's the same as the Taylor Swift Travis Kelce thing. I was just going to say that. It's it's the Super Bowl, so it's already this huge thing. Plus the biggest entertainer of our time is dating that [ __ ] quarterback or what or whatever not the quarterback, that's Mahomes. Whatever he is, Kelce. And it's like we're all in on this. Some people hate her. Some people love that whole thing. It's it's fun to come back and be a country again. You can bet I didn't realize this because America's a crazy place. You can bet on anything. You can bet on coin toss. You can bet on whether there'd be a streaker. Did you see that that guy I saw that. who bet that there would be a streaker and he then struck Oh, that I didn't know that was him. I think that that's the truth. That's illegal. I might have been Is it? What you can't [ __ ] with the betting like that. Try and [ __ ] stop me. Okay, well I made a bunch of money on Usher cuz I bet he would take his shirt off and he did. And I bet You're kidding me. Yeah, I bet something else. did you Where do you go to bet this? I would did it in the room. But there's all these websites for it, but I did it it was like a bunch of comedians at a Super Bowl party and I went and I was like I bet he takes his shirt off. One guy's like I'll take that bet and I paid We're doing cam like a bookie in there. It was great. But uh yeah, yeah, the betting is fun. How many times it's going to cut to Taylor Swift, whether or not someone's going to show a Bud Light on camera. Right, right. [ __ ] I know. There was something about I I swear you could do um whether the two captains would shake hands at the start. Uh-huh. What the order of different songs was going to be, whether there was going to be fireworks, like in a everything. There is nothing that's not up for betting, which is wild because in the UK sports betting is something that's completely ubiquitous. Really? It is everywhere. You can there's basically no age restriction apart from you'd need to do ID on your mobile betting app. But you can bet on absolutely everything. It's not as inventive as what you guys do, but we have betting shops. Oh. So on the high street there will be um Coral or Coral, uh Betfred, uh there'll be a couple of others. And guys will just go in and they'll have sport or horse racing. But this isn't like a We used to have that. OTB. Okay. Off-track betting, but it's kind of gone now. But you have sports bars or bet like sports betting bars. This is different to that cuz there's no booze being served. You can't There's no refreshments in there. It's not an enjoyable place. It's purely there Those are addicts. for the act of yeah. It's purely there for the act. And there'll be a fruit machine, slot machine thing in the corner. But it's not like this is dependent on state-by-state basis. This is just everywhere. Are you glad you're not a a gambling addict? I mean that is [ __ ] That'll [ __ ] you up. Of all of the maladies that you can have, like alcoholism and gambling, I think you should We should all wake up every single day and be like thank god that I didn't get that one. I know. I was watching a Who was I watching? Uh Dana White talking to uh Kyle and Bob Menery on their podcast they did a couple of weeks ago and they're talking about Steve from the Nelk Boys and he's got this sort of gambling compulsion and uh I think Dana's got a bit of that sort of he's got a bit of the darkness in him too when it comes to gambling. He regularly bets 50 grand a hand on uh blackjack. Oh, Jesus. And uh I mean he's got to be a zillionaire, but still. I I yeah, I mean even he says that for him that's squeaky bum time. Yeah, yeah. And uh Squeaky bum time, the worst kid show of all time. Squeaky bum time. He uh he kind of describes this state that Steve must get in and it sounds like it's coming from a like I know this because I get in it type thing. And he's like when he's I called it like rolling or something like that. When he's when he's doing this, the you have one job and the job is to get him out of there. And you can't do it this way and you can't do it that way cuz he's going to say that and he's going to do the whatever. So he's got in his own mind and I think that this is it sounds to me like a guy who has not only been through it and wanted people to get him out of it, but has also had to talk himself out of it too. And apparently Steve had been at this set of tables for 24 hours. And you just thank god I'm so glad that that's not a pathology that I have. 100% yeah. I've lost so much in gambling just with bachelor party Vegas friends. You just [ __ ] around on blackjack and I always lose. So I just like I'd rather save $500 than [ __ ] around on this blackjack table. So I'm I'm with you. So glad we don't have it. And do you have a thing where you're like this is my one issue that I need to get over? I guess kind of like phone use. Phone is bad. Yeah. I find myself you know you'll be on a plane and you'll get it out and you'll scroll and I don't have a signal. What am I doing? I DO THE SAME THING. It's embarrassing. I think he been told me this. I I I used to call it an addiction, but I don't think it is. I think it's a compulsion. Ooh, yes. the reason is that you know you'll know where the apps are on your screen and you'll scroll. It's it's compulsive. It's a compulsive compulsive behavior that has you know reward attached to it. So it's somewhere between a a compulsion and an addiction. And yeah, that that um It's like a cigarette. You know the cigarette guys on a plane, they have to pick up the pack and they kind of flip it around a little bit. They know they can't smoke. Okay. And well I guess they're vaping now, but like a lot of guys I know grew up smoking and when they couldn't smoke they would just touch the pack. And it's similar. You're not going They'd put it on their lip, they'd put it back in. And it's similar to the phone. You're like oh there's the YouTube Yeah. button. Can't see it. But Can't see it. And even I'll just hit it and it'll come up as white and flowy, you know, and I'm still playing with it. It's it's weird. Uh there was an interesting study done on um air hostesses or whatever they're called. steward Flight attendant. Flight attendant, thank you very much. Uh flying from Dubai to Paris and Dubai to New York and they wanted to look at cravings for cigarettes. And what they presumed was that the longer time it was from takeoff the greater the craving would be. So the longer flight you should see both flights tracking at the same speed and then one should be able to satisfy the craving and the other craving should just continue to go up. Mhm. What it turned out was that the longer flight had onsets of cravings that arrived way later. And what it reframes around cravings for addictions are that your craving is very heavily mediated by when your next expected hit is going to be rather than when your last hit was. Now when you have like a physiological dependency, like let's say you're on heroin, you're going to know if it's been 48 hours. But with something like smoking, if you know that you've got 6 hours to wait until your next cigarette, right now you're probably not going to be feeling it too much. But an hour before and 30 minutes before it's really going to ramp up. Oh. So it was all about the next expected hit. Right. That was what really determined craving. Got it. about how long it had been since the last one. How long it's going to be? Yes, because that's where the dopamine comes in. They think I can't wait until I get off this plane. I'm going to go downstairs and I'm going to light that [ __ ] up and like that's what they're thinking about. Wow, that's good. That makes sense. But to me when I'm see We were sitting on the runway for a minute and I still have internet and I really I like gorged. You know, cuz you're like I'm I'm going to be gone for 4 hours. So I'm going to really take it in. And then we you get I did a United flight. You get free text. So now I'm texting people I hate just so they can respond back. You know, cuz I I'm like oh what text have I put off? Let me knock that out. But it You're right. And the problem with the phone is we all know it's harmful. It's bad for you. It fries your brain. But you need it. You go to the restaurant they go we don't have paper menu. You go to the airplane. We need your boarding pass. Uh you got to pay with your phone sometimes. So like no other drug is like that. Yeah. You know, it's not like hey if you want to do your taxes you got to smoke this crack pipe. You're like no, no. You know, and the phone is such a cuz it has the balls to have a meditation app on it too. What a What a dirty move. I always said that's like putting a a button on a gun called a safety, you know, like what are you doing to me? You know you're [ __ ] ruining my life and now you're going to put a meditation app on this thing that's ruined all of our attention spans. Come on. It's evil. They got us. They got us by the balls and we can't Yeah. not use a phone. Yes. Uh one of my friends has a solution he calls He has two phones. One's the cocaine phone and the other's the kale phone. Ooh, I love this. Yeah. So he has two numbers. One has got email and messaging and social media and all of that stuff on. And then the other one has just got Uber and Kindle and Audible and or PayPal or whatever. Your basic your basic stuff. So you can live with that one. Right. But the other one is all of the number hijack. That's great. We need that with wives. You know, you need like a a wife who has your kids and cooks and cleans and has you know, you know, whatever. Then you need like the [ __ ] wife that you can really The freak. Yeah, the one that you're choking and [ __ ] on. Yeah, lady in the freak. Yeah. That would be nice. The Mormons figured that one out. Hell yeah. Mark Norman, ladies and gentlemen. People go what have you got coming up? Tell I got all kinds I'm all over the road. Marknormancomedy.com. I'm coming to your town. We're doing theaters. We're everywhere and I got podcast We Might Be Drunk. Tuesdays with Stories. Buy a bottle of Bodega Cat. I saw you had a couple out there. Appreciate it. So it's a whiskey. And yeah. Check me out on the socials. I'll be offending someone. Oh yeah. Appreciate you, man. Praise Allah. Thank you. Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode with Mark, you'll love my conversation with Whitney Cummings who was sat right there super pregnant. You can watch it right here. Go on. Tap away.