Sanjay Poonen, Cohesity | Cube Conversation

Hello, I'm John Furry with the cube here in the cube studios in PaloAlto. Of course, we have our NYC cube wired studio connecting Silicon Valley to Wall Street. It's a cube conversation with Sanja Pun, CEO of Cohesidity, fresh office sales kickoff event for his company. A lot of news this summer with Maestro which kind of points to the whole anthropic open models foundation models headless systems and a ton of activity that's changing the game in cyber security and cyber resilience. Sanjay we're living in a great time. Welcome back to the cube for your nth appearance. I don't know how many >> coming up close to 100 >> hundred. You're like >> I'm great friends with you and Dave and congratulations all your success. >> We appreciate you and you've been a great sharer on the cube and and we really appreciate that. Um we've covered cohesidity and you know the combination and the momentum this this point in time we're seeing significant momentum. We were just talking before we came on camera around um some of the things Salesforce doing called clawed force. You guys had maestro announced in June July time frame. I think it was June um similar thing but headless has been a thing right because you're seeing the user interface change. Gooies were been around since I've been college in the 80s. You know, now you're starting to see the interface become the models and the agents and programmable. This is kind of a a major user shift. You have Maestro. Give let's start there. What's the state of Maestro? What does that mean? Because that announcement ties into some of the activities going on with agents. Certainly black hat they did a full postmortem on the open AI um you know hugging face you know off the rails agents gone rogue a lot of governance conversations a lot of agents adoption on the horizon take us through what's on maestro >> yeah no just u you know kind of quick context cohesi's now emerged it's about 12 18 months since we did the acquisition of veritas we emerged as the top player in our space in size 12,000 odd customers significant presence of the fortune 2000 70% of the global 500 in certain industries like banking, public sector, healthcare, telco, we just have enormous amount of share with the biggest brands relying on us for resilience. Now what's really happening is the entire world of security, cyber security have taken a whole new uh kind of you know frontier because of glass swing. We'll get to that in a second. What we started to do as we got closer to the uh AI players we've always been pretty close to the cloud players. Amazon, Microsoft, Google, AWS and Google are investors in cohesi and as we were talking to them it was very clear that these two AI frontier models independent ones open AI and anthropic initially was open air but later on we saw anthropic come in the word and then of course Gemini Google's models would have been the one and we saw most interest in the enterprise from entropic and then sort of second was open air and Gemini so we started getting closer to entropic and we became part of we're the first company in our space to get inside glasswing and get our code tested both binaries were tested by a couple of our customers already in Glassswing. You know, we were >> explain glass swings. This is a super important thing that happened and it was kind of the catchy chief moment for security. >> Yeah. Around I think it was March April is when uh Dario announced uh Gary was the CEO of of Anthropic announced Met Mythos. I saw him at a conference said we need to be inside it and there was only 10 companies in it. Um but a couple of customers were in it and there were two security companies. Crowd Strike Apollo and you know we're not as big as them but they're very good partners of us. Now a few weeks later we got in and it was largely because many of our customers are some of the biggest banks and some of the biggest agencies of the US government said we depend on cohesidity as the last line of defense for all the data that sits there. So if a big bank gets attacked their last line of defense for all those immutable backups is cohesity. So in some sense it was good to have our customers lobby for us and we got in Glass Wing and that allowed us to both >> and Glass Wing was what? just explain it for the folks that aren't tracking the inside the ropes cuz this is a super important thing. Yeah, it's that you know what Tom Freriedman called the most nuclear model of all. Okay, mythos running in a way it's highly expensive. They didn't the US government shielded from the entire world from getting but a few companies I think it was 100 or so initially was 10 then 100 >> got access it to >> and that's class wing >> that's class wing project class wing >> and you can then use that to test both your binaries and source code and we began immediately checking what we found and we found vulnerabilities we had not saw before and we immediately got to fix it and we're now uh the first company to be in our space glass wing tested fixed and we're doing great with them the anthropic partnership we have a catalyst user conference coming up uh they're going to be a keynote speaker there we're very host them but not exclusively also working with open AAI they have an effort called Daybreak uh GBD5.5 cyber and Gemini now you put this all together we had two years ago announced uh the ability for our product to act as an agentic platform we had an an agent called copilot that allowed you to command it but it was our UI we took a step further actually was inspired by the headless sort of momentum that Salesforce had announced a year ago at at Dreamforce and we said what if we were to make the entire command interface of cohesi be one of these LLMs, right? And think about 20 years ago when the or 25 years ago when the search tools first came out, people said the Windows and Mac OS is going to be replaced by search as the default desktop. Now I think prompts are going to be the default desktop of how people command and control their entire IT experience and maybe even their co-work life. So that's what we did. We made all of our we're a very API rich company. We allowed all of our cluster data, our agentic flows, our telemetry, everything to flow into um these these LLMs and in fact we showed at our sales kickoff a demo where your command control was a prompt and then all of the actions were happening in our product through that prompt. >> Now there's certain things that for example a lot of us build reporting tools for our products very sophisticated charts and graphs. It's amazing what entropic openai and Gemini could do with that. You don't have to. You just send them the telemetry, they do the reporting for you. So there's many functions like that that get significantly easier when you do it. So we announced Meister. Meister is just that orchestration initiative across all these LLMs and uh we were the first in our space to do it and just is another example of pioneering innovation uh in an API rich platform. >> Talk about the productivity gains because you hit a couple things that we've been covering which is I kind of mentioned this the gooey thing. been on this rant, but I mean there really hasn't been a change to the graphical user interface since the 80s when you know SIG graph started and you had Windows machines, you had SAS applications, they were apps you click and you have an interface. Now this new interface is the business logic is actually in the agents in the data. The prompts are outcome requests. Hey, give me the third quarter forecast or you know some prompt. Now there's pre-filled decode. Nvidia gets into all that mathematics stuff that goes on AI, but the user experience >> is the cat's out of the bag, Sanjay. People love it. >> Yeah, >> it's not even a question. So, but this is a significant shift in user behavior and expectation that I've never seen before. I mean, this almost makes the the guey concept and how people present systems to users. >> I think most of us lived in the workflow of the tools we most commonly day-to-day, whether it's, you know, sort of Slack or email. um you know messaging typey traffic or search uh and now with prompts and prompts that are very intelligent and that by the way you can use with voice too. >> Yeah, >> you can start with typing and then you can continue going on your hike with a voice prompt and it leaves. I mean this is the new world >> and I do think that the the future will be prompt-like interfaces that are voice and text driven >> and you allow the brain to do all the work right. Um we live in a world where the inquisitive people ask questions. You think about what does a child do when they are the earliest questions. They start asking why, what, how, open-ended questions. And I think you're going to have to go back all of us to those early days of our life and ask these brains open-ended questions. You know, the the the most innocent question a child wants to ask is why is the sky blue? And if we can get comfortable on the data and the telemetry we produce asking this brain to go and figure it out without having us having to do all that work >> the brains of these AI frontier models extremely powerful and I gave one example a charting graphing we'd have people say could you show us this chart and graph with these schemas I'm like make the entire telemetry schemaless send it into a frontier model let it discover the schema >> I lived my early life at SAP as you knew me in the analytics business >> it's going to revolutionize any so you take raw amounts of data send it into it will figure out the scan of schema and will produce a better chart of graph than you'd ever been able to do. That's an example of power of these brains these days. Well, maestro's integration because you back in even in the cloud days you had to do have connectors you need to have integration maybe some engineering >> how are you viewing these models are you directly integrated with them talk about the relationship and how does that impact your customer base do they have to do integrations are special connectors >> so it's a way we think about that world word connectors first off you want to be an API rich platform we were built in the modern era last 10 12 years and Gartner recognizes as the best platform with APIs Okay, that's one. What's the modern equivalent of an API today? MCPS. Okay, model context protocol. So, you could think of, if you don't know what an MCP is, think of it, it's a modern-day API for the world of AI. We took our product and made the entire thing MCP capable to then tie into any application that allows you to talk MCPs. Salesforce could be one, but every one of the SAS applications and even traditional applications have opened up their world to MCP. So what we're now doing is taking the cohesive platform and making it MCCP callable so to speak by by Anthropic OpenAI Gemini whoever have you and then we expect their richness to take over in a lot of the things that people commonly ask of our platform to do. One example was charting, graphing, but you could think about anything where all you're doing is commanding our platform to do something and you're changing the way in which you command it to be in words and those words get translated into a command call that's ultimately an API call and our platform does the work. >> You know, APIs have been great. MCP has been great. Actually, Gardner, since you mentioned Gardner, they predict that 68% of MCP agent work, agent work through MCP will fail if they don't have the right context, reasoning, and knowledge layer. So talk about the context because again a lot of the about 1% of the enterprise data is locked down and not unlocked. So there's a lot of value in your customer base. They you want to protect that and make that cyber resilient. How do you view that? Because now you got the the frontier models are general intelligence but you got the movement towards specialty intelligence. You guys fit on both sides because you got the model relationships. Great. But now okay what about specialism? >> Yeah. So contact is key. The key word you mentioned in your entire question there is context. So think of us as a data bricks of secondary data, right? All of the company's data backup is just a time series copy of everything you have. We have 200 exabytes because the largest companies in the world rely on us. They back up their data years and years and years. Banks, public sector, healthcare, telos, so on and so forth. So that 200 xabytes of data has a lot of context in it. It has all the historical data for a large bank. So when you run a query, let's say you have 100 billion PDF files in our backup. >> Um, you want to be able to unveil that context through what's called a catalog. And what we did, a product called Gaia. This is the product that we built with Nvidia. Nvidia invested in us to build this out. It's the world's first retrieve augmented generation rag solution with a vector database on backup data. In fact, we just got a patent for that. Uh, John, the first company I was placed to do that. So you connect that catalog okay of that information um either into uh directly through our UI you could query it or you can interface to it with glean or you know anthropic or open AI but the bigger idea is even connecting that catalog to a data brick so now you could be inside Ali's data bricks or sther snowflake or Microsoft fabric and you might be quering data that unstructured sits in our system we've connected the unity >> the knowledge layer on top of data bricks >> yes exactly >> not side by >> no we're underneath data bricks. You should think of data bricks as the primary layer of of secondary data sorry of of of uh unstructured data >> and where they need some historical context because those documents don't exist in in data bricks they come to us. >> So maybe in a bank the current 30 days worth of unstructured data is sitting in data bricks but all their 10 years worth of data is sitting in cohesidity. We link those two cataloges and now someone can conduct their query inside data bricks but all of the data catalog the actual data and you don't have to actually move that data. You just connect the cataloges. >> So that catalog has the context that you need to be able to allow the the user inside data bricks snowflake. And you know the reason we've been multi-purpose here is we don't know who's going to be the frontier model 5 years from now. It could be a tropic could be open. You have to work with all of them. >> There'll be a lot of them. >> We don't know who's going to be the data lake of choice. Is it going to be data bricks? Is it going to be snowflake? Is it going to be Google BigQuery? Is it going to be Microsoft fabric? So you connect with all of them. >> Uh I don't think there'll be hundreds of them. There'll be sort of 510 in the same way there sort of four five clouds. >> So we built our platform to be open and this whole project around Gaia and connecting its semantic layer and its catalog. We announced that in March uh it's really getting momentum. Again these are all first and only in our space. Most of our competition are backup companies. They've really not made the transition to security and AI companies and we're at the frontier of doing that. Uh, and I like the glass wing because that's a super important initiative. Open Weights is popular. You mentioned open source. >> MCP is open. Open Weights is open. >> We should talk about that. >> You have a lot of platform capabilities with open. This is what customers want. Open tables changed the game on data links. >> It was very clear to me that there were certain companies that were at the front of pushing this. Nvidia is one of them. They invested in us. Entropic is another. We're pretty close to them. Um, OpenAI is going to be another one. But it's not clear to us that the weighted model, frontier model is going to be the only ones. So when Nvidia and Microsoft began to announce open weights, uh we got on that very early. I approached Jensen and Satia and we're the only company in our space that's part of the open weights initiative that I think Nvidia, Microsoft, and Dell are actually involved in. Who knows where this is going to go, right? Is the are the winners going to be the weighted models, the ones going to be open weights? >> I don't think there's a winner takes all. I think it's a a power law and because what we're seeing in our data is in the enterprise there's going to be a mix of frontier general intelligence and there's a real shift towards specialized intelligence. If you look at the success of companies like Fireworks AI for instance, they're allowing AI native developers to get all the benefits of the capex, you have all that benefits of your install base data you mentioned. Now you have this AI native front end, call it a developer prompting could be anybody. They're going to leverage a lot of that capex. They need that frontier like experience for smaller data sets. So specialized data sets come out. Yeah, I think that that's and the other thing that's I think outside the US I think there's a lot of concern that either because of the US cloud act or these frontier models being US companies what are they doing with the data I think there's a lot more willingness outside the US to be friendly to open weights models obviously we've got to make sure >> that you know yeah in the case exactly in the case of China models that we're not sending data there and so on so there's a national security aspect to it uh there's an effort inside the US government called gold eagle okay project gold eagle we're involved with We're very close to the national cyber director Sean Canross. I have a lot of respect for him. Uh he wrote a articulation of the cyber strategy for the current administration. We helped them articulated. So we got many fronts. Uh John, >> were you guys part of the signing the um US um and paper that went out. I saw Jensen was on there. >> Yeah. As it relates to security, we're part of the open secure AI lines were in there. That's the Nvidia effort around open secure AI. industry leaders open that was called open secure AI alliance separate from open weights that was more around security open weights is more around AI weren't part of that so I listed four or five that are important we're involved in all of them and it's largely because the biggest banks and the biggest federal agencies depend on us >> so typically these are the critical infrastructure ones the US government and by the way if you go outside the the world many of the largest governments outside the US in NATO and democratic friendly countries run on our platform so we have a very strong perspective ive uh that these customers of ours >> lobby often for us to ensure because if you really believe that see the whole idea of security if you go back to the NIS framework the left side of NIST is detect and prevent the right side of NIST is recover and remediate we're on the right side of NISK and if you assume these mythos style attacks even if we completely shield this models in the United States you have to assume the bad guys have an open source v variant of it >> so then they're going to come at you invariably and inevitably faster and more deadly so it's a matter of time before big brands are getting in. We're seeing some of that happening. Medtech space and so on so forth. So, so we actually kind of have an adaptation of this Benjamin Franklin line. A ounce of resilience is as important as a pound of detection. The detection companies are companies that crowd strike and power. You need them >> but you need these fast resilience platforms like Cohesi. What distinguishes us relative to everybody in our market is nobody can match our supersonic speed of recovery. So when people kind of use our platform and you count on the inevitable happening, you can recover your data and applications really really fast. >> You know what's interesting and we've talked about this on the cube before is that resilience is a great word. It's kind of also means a lot of things but the category of data backup and recovery. If you go back 20 years ago or 17 years ago when we started the cube, it was data domains of the world and it was viewed as a second thing to do. It was always a afterthought. Then it became primary and that was an industry category. I was at many VMware worlds where this was discussed. Now the shift has been the classic that's not a company that's a feature that's not a category that's a company. The the pivot or I won't say pivot. It wasn't really a pivot. It was a trajectory change from data backup and recovery to cyber resilience. And you said we're the leading cyber um resilience and AI company. the category changed because now backup and recovery is a feature of the infrastructure needed in today's world. Okay, we kind of talked about that in many other cubes. That's absolutely >> what is that industry like today? Because if you look at um Nvidia for instance, >> they're creating a whole another AI infrastructure category, but it's still the same game. Serve up infrastructure in this case tokens, mathematics, scale the mathematics, feed the mathematics. Um how does that change resilience, cyber resilience? Black Hat we saw again I mentioned the hugging face open eye thing but there's many other discussions machine identity so the cyber security industry RSA black hat they all talk about the same endpoint protection zero trust but there's also an infrastructure game going on >> right >> so there almost is a whole new category in cyber >> isn't your classic point solutions turn what's your vision of the industry as as cyber security >> where resilience is the outcome people want Yeah, protect and defend, remediate. Okay, great. >> It's not simply a small category anymore. Describe your vision because I think this is a untold story that cyber resilience became an extension of backup and recovery. But now resilience >> is a first class citizen in all the discussions as is security data feeding the mathematics and the tokens coming out. So as intelligence is produced, >> yeah, >> all that data needs to be highly resilient. Yeah, I think that last part is where you start. First off, AI is going to be a tsunami company with a lot more data. So where there's more data, you need to protect it, make it immutable, make it resilient. We play there. So we see it as a tailwind to the explosion of data. Many of our customers have gone from like 10 pabytes to like 500 pabytes of data. We we we protect for them at large banks and so on so forth. And that 200 xabytes of data we protect, a lot of that is because that data explosion. But the other thing that's going to happen I think you have to anticipate is there's probably going to be as many agents as there's employees in a company. I was at a CEO conference with Microsoft and Satya put up a chart that talked about the number of agents inside Microsoft being um equal more to the number of employees have and that's a very interesting point. Let's assume those agents are not ephemeral meaning they don't they don't get start and stop. They actually have state to them. What we announced in March this year was an agent resilience platform that allows you to protect those agents. So imagine that agent has a vector database. It has MCPS. It has a whole bunch of state. That's just like a mini version of SAP. What's the biggest app we all talked about 304 years? SAP. It had HANA. It had Netweaver. It whole state with it. We backed up. Now we can protect that agent. We were the first to announce an agent Brazilian platform to back up and protect and make safe the state of that agent prom vector database and so on so forth. The other thing that could happen with these agents, think of these agents as a virtual human being, is they could do something disastrous to the you talked about the open hugging face incident that could either happen in unintentionally or maliciously, right? In either case, if that agent corrupts a file or a database, we hooked ourselves. We don't want to be some of our competitors are trying to be the agent control plane. That's stupid because that that's going to be a service now uh with the AI control tower or an AWS with bedrock or so on so forth. So we basically built an integration into those platforms that house these agents where you build you manage you register you secure you observe those agents and once you've hooked in there if that platform detects that an agent's doing things something malicious it sends us a signal. Okay. and then we can recover the data to the last state and then send the signal back saying you're good. So that agent resilience platform both backing up the entire state of an agent and it'll also protecting you from agents doing something malicious. We announced in March this year >> agents are a big new factor into the equation. >> Oh absolutely. >> It's funny you mentioned that. I we've been doing a lot of defense tech interviews certainly um in NYC and here and the trend has been the storyline has been you know drone fleets of drones are attacking in the on the battlefield and there's that Patriot missile built billions of dollars to build these big weaponry they can't fight the swarm of drones coming in and so the they're trying to fix that but the point is the old way of defending the Patriot missile is now coming in with all these drones in a way agents are similar It's a new factor in the enterprise because the old ways was there was an attack something catastrophic might have happened you got to go to the backup bring it back but now you have thousand paper cuts coming in events basically security events >> that's what you're that's what you're basically that's what you're basically saying so that you're like the drones are coming in attacking the big Patriot missile agents are everywhere security vulnerability the long tale of vulnerabilities increases so the velocity is then going to increase >> if you look at kinetic warfare right I We see this happening in US Iran. There was a great piece I think on one of the networks that compared a Shahed drone which is the size of a king mattress. Okay, 810 ft costs like I think $1,000 and you count the big Patriot missile like the missiles that are big maybe a million dollars. >> We're agents are like fighting war against these Shahid drones. >> Yeah, >> they're cheap, easy to do and you can create like agentic attacks very easily, not very difficult to do. So we're now fighting a different type of warfare. So if you take a lesson from >> change is a resilient parameter. >> You have to assume that they're going to come at you faster, more deadly, and they're cheaper to try and orchestrate, right? So the basics of of security, you have to have multiffactor authentication, all those things that we talked, the hygienic things you need to do, but you now have to ask yourself if they're coming at you so fast, how will you recover? One of the things that happened to us in the Middle East, not not was we found many of our Middle East C customers the moment one of the data centers got hoo hit, they had to have a third copy air gap cyber vault outside their country. They started moving their data to places like Switzerland or other places because their data centers in countries like Dubai, Barry and South were getting hit. So I think you have to have that mindset to say listen if agentic attacks are coming at you and invariably one of them is going to hit me how quickly can I recover my data my applications what are the apps I need to recover in a in a in an hour a day a week a month that's the cyber resilience framework we have a a framework >> that's significantly a different landscape than it was >> ago the the whole way in which now CISOs are starting to articulate that to us they say listen help me build a framework for what's called a minimum viable entity an entity could a company or a government >> and we're helping them. We have a five-step cyber resilience uh you know kind of program and and process that we pioneered studying many of our largest banks. It's become very popular >> and now we basically telling people a little bit like a doctor. We're a doctor of of cyber resilience of do of security prescriptively what have we done at some of the largest brands that would allow us to say we can replicate that. We've done this for the largest banks in the US. We've done this for the largest public sectors. We've done this for the largest hospitals, telos. We can see what we've done there and replicate that. So in some senses over time it's not just about having the best product John it's the fact that we have a lot of experience having done this at the world's biggest brands in practically every country that's what makes cohesidity now a lot more of a trusted advisor to know >> increases your profile as a platform and Dave and I will spec are speculating that totally changes the TAM that you can go after because now it's not just point solution or having a >> that was the SAP play right what did SAP have the ads off the best businesses run SAP in the airports Okay, that's kind of the way we view it. The best companies in the world rely on us for resilience and that allows us to say well the product is strong but why don't you ask this particular bank why they have gotten speed of recovery that's certainly fast or this government agency or this hospital or this u you know healthcare provider. So that's how we think I think it's very much for me long-term I see us being very vertical industry oriented around successes we've had in banking public sector healthcare telco manufacturing technology firms. >> How does that change your role as a CEO? Obviously the landscape has changed. We just covered that. Does it change uh how you think about where you direct your capital? Does it change your roadmap? Does it change your customer motions? What's the impact to this new environment that you're growth environment you're living in? >> I think first off you have to say so for me it's fantastically exciting because I love intellectual stimulus and I love a growth mindset. You have to have like Carol Dwek's book right that's really focused on kids the book called growth mindset. You can either be a knowit all or a learn it all. She had a very simple framework to teach kids. Uh how do you deal with the loss? Right? That's a very good principle. So if anything, you're all being we're all being humbled to say we've got to be learned all because there's these things we never know about. And I've got this incredible tutor call an LLM or an AI that's going to teach me. And if you have that inquisitive mindset as a CEO or anybody in the organization and invariably what you want to do is celebrate in your company, inside my company, there are people who are AI superpowers right now. I want to get them to come and show demos at our town hall meetings, teach me what they're learning. And you'd be surprised in our 5,800 odd person organization how many people have become AI superpowers whom I would never have predicted. >> And I'm encouraging those, you know, thousands of flowers to bloom. >> And as a CEO, I want to hear about them and learn. And of course, I've got to ensure my game also gets changed. >> Yeah. >> Uh and it's the same way like if someone came to you, John, and said, "To I'm driving from place A to place B and they brought out a Rand McN, have you been asleep the last 30 years? cryogenically frozen. >> There's this thing called Google Maps, right? >> It's the same way today. You if you are not >> getting a Whimo. >> Exactly. That's even better. But if you are not living your life where the AIs are training and teaching you >> as a CEO, you're underperforming. >> Yeah. It's a great mindset. Again, curious and looking at the what's evolving in front of us is still early innings. Um I want want to go to um before we end into your team. you just came fresh off your sales kickoff or SCO they call them. Um that's a moment where you gather the field, you gather the teams, here's your quota, go get it. Uh it's a motivating event, but also you have to really kind of lay out what the vision >> the vision is and what's sellable, what customers are doing. So it really is a nice gathering. What was the message? What was the feedback? What was some of the things discussed? Because you know this is your troops, those are this is your team. What was the some of the content? Can you just give us a taste? I know it's conf some of it's confidential, but like give us give us a give us a tape of the pictures on on LinkedIn can all >> um we do sort of three kickoff events. One's the top 100 leaders, our VPs and hireers. We have a leadership kickoff that's in person in in Vegas. And then the next few days we do a sales kickoff for our go to market sales, marketing and customer success teams. And then we do a complete company kickoff, but that's virtual because we can't get all 5,000 people in one place. Um, and it's a sort of a rolling thunder like so, you know, typically to make it fun, we all do a bunch of skits. My thing is music. >> So, almost every year I'll compose something this thing. This time I took a variant of an Elton John and a Billy Joel song and I had my green jacket. >> Did you play the piano? >> I play the piano background music. There was a little bit of back No, there was a little bit of background music because I didn't have a band. But if I had a band, I wouldn't need that. So, I was assisted by a uh a background. But it was good and we had fun doing that. That part I won't share publicly uh because it was fun and and we do that privately. But >> what was the simple message to the team? >> It was accelerate. We are now come together as two companies. Kisi Veritas we've had 12 18 months now and we're profitable. Kisti was not profitable for now. We're very profitable. I think one of the most profitable in that space and we're also growing very well. And we have to take these key customers and accelerate everything. Accelate our product, accelerate our growth, accelerate our our customer success. And the the key aspect of what we were able to share with them was when you go by vertical industry, these sort of eight to 10 core industries. We're practically dominant in those areas and we just have to have anchor customers that we've learned and studied. So I shared with them a whole bunch of our customer successes. Of course, I feel like our product roadmap is second to none, right? But I think when we were able to anchor people about the best things that we're doing in banking or public sector, it allows our our teams to talk in the language of customer. If you're going to another customer, for example, a French customer, and you can teach them what the US customers have done with you. One French customer spoke to us, a banking customer spoke to us where video and said, "The relationship we have with Cohesi is so critical to us. >> It's like survival. We depend on you." So, I think those are the kinds of things we want our sales teams to come out saying we've understood. >> Uh the piece I think the other piece on the product side that you'll be seeing some announcement on we the reason we win in the market is our speed is second to none. our scale second run and we've got very deep security. Those are the three S's and um we are announcing some things in the next few months relate to speed of our platform. It's already faster than everybody else but we're going to have some new innovations that I think our teams were blown away. So stay tuned. A lot coming. >> All right. So my final question is trying to get a little little taste from what happened. You know you when you have operating business like you running you have people who create value and then the commercial team markets that value. Uh and they don't really talk speeds it means they talk outcomes. What are some of the outcomes that your team is talking about now? So at this meeting, what were some of the directives or what was some of the conversation around these are the outcomes we want for our customers? What what do you what outcomes are you guys selling in marketing? >> I think when you think about our a bit like life and death, right? When a customer says I could put I will put enormous amount of value on survival. So that's like almost life and death. I'd start there. For many of our customers, this is life and death in an economic sense, not necessarily in human life terms. So this is so critical. Then you start talking dollars. And when you talk to dollars, typically the cost of ownership of our solution relative to everybody else is significantly cheaper because you're taking a lot of cost out. The speed of recovery means that you're up so much faster that the business value of having your systems down. You look at some of the the the attacks that have happened, systems are down for days. That's hundreds of millions of lost economic value. >> We can quantify very quickly being able to get your systems, your data up means those hundreds of millions of billions of dollars are value. So the economic justification for our platform is not difficult to make. Um one is you kind of go with the sort of the the core of the mass hierarchy which is youets have survival and then you build on that top of that cost um you know reduction and ROI acceleration. Those are the ways I think about business outcome. >> Yeah. And and going forward I wrote a post on Nvidia's earnings Wednesday night um to kind of tease out the future because it was all about the data center. They had $60 billion operating margin. amazing performance was the next billions for Nvidia is beyond the AI factory. Um, and it's about breaking out of the data center and going to the disagregated infrastructure edge. So you now have distributed computing. You're going to have disagregated nodes and data there too. So today it's disagregated serving inside the big factory. So you're going to have this distributed computing that's going to present a lot of resilience challenges. just any vision on that your vision on as it goes to the edge how cohesity will be kind of integrating into that world. >> I really enjoy spending time with Jensen and video as an investor. They do monthly meetings with us. They're in our board of observers. So any opportunity to learn from Jensen and his key team that he's got designated to help us is fantastic. We do joint customer briefings with them. They're certainly a pioneer alongside, you know, companies like Enthropic and Google in in AI. Um as it relates to the world of edge which you asked about I think in especially in manufacturing you're going to have sort of three parts of how this pendulum swings in terms of workloads the data centers I think are shrinking and many of those workloads are moving to the cloud that's well documented but the edge might actually start getting more proliferated because for manufacturing that's usually the manufacturing plants in various different countries and distribution centers so you could think of almost a very kind of a big edge a small data center big cloud that's how I think this is going to layered for many of these firms that have an edge location on each of those edges which could be a manufacturing plant or it could be an automobile or could be a telco could be a hospital with them anything >> you got to make sure your resilience is at that point off the data center or that edge base the the device the met I'm on the board of of Phillips in the medtech world all those devices are potentially in the neck need to be protected from a cyber attack and you need to have protection solutions like ours that can run in a very and you play there >> absolutely we're in one of the windmills Okay. Uh in the Nordics windmill companies there and inside each of those windmills there's a small little cluster of cohesi it's protecting the data that that windmill in a very remote location. U there's a large very distributed French company that's a big big manufacturer of glass and other materials we're in every one of those data centers. So in these companies that are manufacturing or more OT systems based you have to have the form factor to sit right at the edge and that that's the benefit of >> yeah it's a node on the network and you create the intelligence and the factories then you distribute it to the round to the internet >> right and and John the key of that architecture is a scale out architecture right the premise of cohesi was we were the first to build a scaleout architecture you can sit inside a windmill or a small manufacturing plant all the way to the biggest banks >> well you're going to get uh headroom on that TAM when that explodes in the next here. Sanjay, great to have you on. Thanks for this uh deep long conversation like a podcast almost an hour. Thanks and congratulations on a great sales kickoff and good luck. We'll be seeing you out and we'll be following Maestro and all the resilience coming out from you guys. Thanks for coming on. >> Thank you, John. All right, I'm John F with the cube for this cube conversation. Thanks for watching.