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RLUK Space Programme | Making space for innovation in research libraries

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The RLUK Space Programme showcases innovative transformations within research libraries that extend far beyond traditional boundaries to foster collaboration and public engagement. At the University of London, the Senate House Mega Space serves as a versatile hub integrating digital tools with hands-on activities like experimental archaeology, book binding, and mosaic work. This facility, supported by significant grants and partnerships across various institutes, houses diverse equipment ranging from 3D printers and virtual reality headsets to historical printing presses and drones. Similarly, the University of Aberdeen's Sir Duncan Rice Library has evolved into a highly sought-after environment that addresses the needs of fifteen thousand students through strategic design changes, including designated silent floors, group study booths, and inclusive collections areas curated by students to promote equality and diversity. These evolving spaces are driven by a combination of reactive user feedback and proactive strategic planning to overcome challenges such as overcrowding, noise management, and limited resources. At Aberdeen, initial issues with mixed study types on every floor led to the conversion of second-floor areas into specialized zones, while other adaptations included installing dual monitors, adding private study corrals, and creating prayer spaces funded by charitable trusts. The programme emphasizes a balanced approach that utilizes agile, small-scale reactive changes alongside slower, long-term strategic initiatives like campus-wide space audits and curriculum transformation projects. This dual strategy ensures that libraries can adapt to seasonal academic cycles and institutional restructuring without falling into duplication or resource waste, while also exploring future possibilities such as repurposing spaces for performances and supporting community tool libraries. Operational sustainability remains a critical component of these innovative programs, particularly regarding safety, staffing, and financial management. The maker space at the University of London requires mandatory training and inductions for users to safely operate equipment like 3D printers, with ongoing costs managed through careful budgeting that avoids over-reliance on monetization. Staffing models are intentionally collaborative and part-time rather than relying on full-time dedicated roles, as these spaces do not require constant supervision typical of high-throughput areas; relocating such specialized hubs to main libraries would significantly increase resource demands. By prioritizing user needs through surveys and student union partnerships while maintaining safety protocols, these libraries successfully balance financial constraints with the goal of creating accessible, inclusive environments that support both research innovation and community well-being.
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Thank you very much. Um I'm um I'm Gabriel Bad from the University of London. I um I work in the um the digital humanities research hub and I'm here to talk about the Senate House mega space which we um which we manage through the through the hub. Um, and I'm particularly um interested in um thinking about the sorts of collaborations that are enabled by um by this this space and in particular with with libraries um for this um for this conversation. Um so I'll start by talking a bit about the um the sort of genesis of the maker space and what where it's come from which which which is what gets us to where it uh to what it is um if you like. Um and uh I should I should add as a as a as a preamble that although the the maker space is um is managed by the digital humanities research hub um it is not um exclusively a digital lab. It um it involves um various kinds of um practical and maker and experiential activities um which is why we call it the maker space not not not the not the digital space or anything like this. Um so in terms of um in terms of timeline the um the earliest sort of acquisition of of equipment and and of sort of um gathering of expertise um in this area um actually predates the the mega space by several years. Um in 2016 um the Institute of Classical Studies and Institute of Historical Research um together with some funding from the School of Advanced Study um put together a a center a 3D center um with various interests including 3D imaging, 3D printing um and various various other things. This um 15 uh,000 pounds um grant covered the the purchase of some equipment, some um some fairly high powered computing and virtual reality headsets and and things um things of that kind. Um fast forward a few years to the creation of the digital humanities research hub which is now um a sort of sibling to the um to the eight um other institutes in the school of grand study that are all humanities institutes. Um and um a year later the um the award of a of a capital grant from the University of London to um to put together um a a maker space which um there's a link on the slide there to the um uh to to the page describing the maker space. I'm aware that that's not click clickable to to those of you on on Zoom. Um, but I I hope I've left it up on the screen long enough that um that if you're interested in finding it, you um you can. Um, University of London Maker Space will also find it in in a in a in a search engine. Um, so this um this is the origin of the of the equipment and the space that that we have and I'll talk a bit more about the equipment um in a minute. But um firstly the um the units that take part in the collaboration that has that has led to the maker space being what it is and its creation and its use um and um and its um its affordances what what what it's able to um to offer and do um was the the initial organization and the application for the capital funding and the the current ongoing management um is based in the dig of humanities research hub. Um but the the initial um bid was done in collaboration with the institutes of classical studies, English studies, historical research um and with Senate House Library which is in in the same building um as as us um and various external partners also played a part and continue to play a part um in that development and in that planning um and and management of the of the space. Um I don't know if people saw the previous slide which just a list of the instit the the institutional um partners and then the the goals what what what we um what we built the maker space for. This is what we expected to be doing in in the mega space. So so a range of um activities which as I say includes but not not um not restricted to um to digital methods. Um so we have quite a lot of 3D imaging um uh activity goes on there and the the main expenditure for that is the photo photography equipment. Um 3D printing 3D printers um have uh taken up a fair amount of the of of the budget. Virtual reality um the virtual reality headsets have become a lot cheaper in the last um few years but um but still a certain amount of outlay. Um there's been a certain amount of work with single board computing such as Raspberry Pies and the similar um areas um which have been used um in a range of machine learning and computer vision um activities um partly to sort of just demonstrate how this sort of activity um can uh can be done on a much smaller scale than the the the you know the massive water guzzling data centers that that we associate AI Um and then we we have a bunch of um of other activities. So my colleagues in English um have a couple of historical printing presses and we we we we use that to think about things around the the history of the book and experiential learning through through hands-on and various other kinds of hands-on learning including experimental archaeology. Um so working with um with mosaics, with clay, with book binding, with various other sorts of activities. Um, and in particular, we wanted this to be a space for collaboration, training, and public engagement. So, so not just um for a small handful of people to use it for their research, but really to have it used by as many people as possible and be as accessible as possible for um for other people. Um, do let me know if the slides stop um stop progressing um for for people again at any point. Um, so, um, I've just just got here a couple of images of of, um, some of the equipment that's in the mega space. So, we have some, um, some photography equipment, including this, um, adjustable height table. Um, obviously, this this table is designed for for accessibility. So, if anybody did need a desk with adjustable height, um, you know, we we take all the photo photography equipment off it and let it be used for its original use, but it is also super useful for um, for photography. Um, we've got various camera equipment. the um the electric remote control turntable on the right there. Um that is also very useful for um for for 3D imaging of an of an object using photographic techniques. Um we've got various 3D printers. These are the four 3D printers that that we own. Three of them are located in the maker space. One of them is located in the Institute for Classical Studies. Um the the the one on the left is the oldest of those 3D printers. Not not the cheapest um but currently the the most reliable. It's the one the one that has broken down the fewest times in the the time that the um six years or so that we've that we've had it. Um there's uh there's various um printing presses. So the um uh the Albian press on the left is is the most sort of heritage press. This is I think a 19th century press. And then there's various other presses. And one sort of experiment crossing crossing the last two slides um is this model of a rolling press on the on the right there which has been 3D printed. And it's a working it's a working roll of press. You can you can lay paper and and a and an inked plate over the top of that and turn the handle on the side if you bolt it to a table. Um and you can get a working miniature rolling press. I mean I it's it's working. It's not full size. That's that's I think about 20 cm long that that serrated bed in the um in the middle of it. Um there are various uh computing resources. So this is this is the the most high-end computer we've got. This is a gaming computer. Um it's um Alienware Area 51. Um it's the sort of computer, you know, someone who was you know super into online gaming would get. Um, and the reason we have one of these is not because we're super into online gaming, but because they're, um, they're very very well um, uh, provisioned for 3D processing. So for 3D imaging, 3D modeling, virtual reality, having the processes in here, this is the cheapest way of getting those sorts of processes sort of equivalent in power um to um to that sort of um to to do, you know, something that would cost two or three times as much if you if you bought them as professional um uh computers. Um so on to the the main sorts of collaborations that we've um that we've in in um engaged in the um the one that I'm most involved in as I'm I'm co-located in the Institute of Classical Studies um is the 3D imaging of um a collection of antiquities held by the Institute of Classical Studies. And the there's just a few images on here of of some of the 3D models. Um on the left is a screenshot from our Sketch Fab site. Um and um there's a a closeup of a a Byzantine um pottery shur um on the right there. And the the the image on the bottom right has been um has been shown on a previous slide already. That's the process of um photographing, 3D modeling, and then 3D printing um an object as carried out by one of our um by one of our student placements um last year. Um we've also had a range of um collaborations around 3D imaging and modeling with Senate House Library. So, we've imaged um on the left are some of the objects from um the the collection of of cult um paraphernalia from the Harry Price collection. Um that um a little bit um sort of lower quality 3D models because these objects are are much harder to image than than than the ceramics for for various technical reasons. Um but um but a really interesting experiment nevertheless with um with what we could do with these sorts of things. And then um you know a couple of other things on on the right there. So so a bookshelf of seized literature from the um from the seized books um project um relating to the to the 1985 um seizure of of um of queer um literature from the gays the word bookshop. Um and um the bottom right is um is a an experiment we did just because we were fascinated by the fact that um the the um the heavy pollution in the area of London has meant that this 100-year-old building has been slightly worn such that we can now see fossils inside the limestone that the building was made of um in the higher um the higher parts of the building. And so, um, you know, getting 3 3D imaging of of those of those fossils is quite is quite fun. We haven't found any dinosaurs in there or anything, but, um, but it's still fun. Um, couple of other projects that um that have been um taking place. This this is um one of the more exciting projects we have. It's not one that I've been involved in. Um so I can't say too much more about it. But this is this is um a project to again use these single board computers to um to look at the um the biases inherent in the training of artificial intelligence models and using um computer vision um as the um as the the engine for that um experimentation. um and working a lot with with young people um and um and you know out out in the community with various various partners. Um so that that's that's been um you know a very a very impactful um set of activities. Um other activities that we carry out in the maker space um include a whole range of of different kinds of um uh of public facing activities. So um including um a series that we call the the maker space taster sessions. Um this is where we run a fairly short um sort of one or twohour introduction to some activities. So I um I quite often um run activities on photoggramometry which is the the the photo photography based 3D imaging um that um that I showed a few slides ago. Um RTI which is another advanced imaging method. um some uh text encoding and ancient epigraphy recording methods, virtual reality. Um we've got a PhD student who's using virtual reality in her in her project. So she's able to demonstrate this to to small audiences. Um we've got students working with um with encoding wiki data for humanities data and that um that is something that um that we're we're again running short courses on. We have um uh short demos of both um 3D printing, so how to use a 3D printer and giving people giving people access um to these and most importantly getting people trained up with them because we don't want to let people um have sort of unsupervised access to to 3D printers unless they've they've got the training on how to do so safely, both safely for themselves and for the printers. Um and also the printing presses same same um same issues that there's a certain you know amount of sort of safety involved in requiring sort of training and supervision. Um and um on on Pi Day which is um the 14th dead by mistake there um 14th of March I think 3:14 um is um a bunch of activities demonstrating what can be done with Raspberry Pies and so forth. So, a range of the sort of activities we do, including some that we run longer courses on. Um, that these are sort of one or two hour tasters of those sorts of things that are usually for free that people can come along and get a sense of what they'd um what they want to um might want to find out more about over time. We run a whole range of of short courses of various lengths um up to up to week-long um summer schools um and and spring schools. Um we have various classes are held in there. So I teach my MA classes um in that room because all of the hardware and the the various setup is is intrinsic to the sorts of things I want my student to be involved in. We hold seminars in there. Same sorts of reasons. We can have discussion groups in there that can help us to to have um sort of material around us while we're while we're discussing some of the issues and activities and practices around digital um and other other sort of analog making methods. Um we we have a range of hands-on sessions that are um beyond beyond the sort of um training sessions per se are sessions where um we have conversations about for example um archaeological issues around interpreting pottery. Um and we do so with with a a a slab of wet clay on the table in front of us. So everyone's got their hands dirty. they're practicing making things um and thinking about pottery while making pottery in their hands, which I think is is quite a useful sort of tactile way to sort of get thought of. It's not quite experimental archaeology because you're not really learning about how ancients or or historical people made pottery items because just because you've got clay in your hands, archaeologists have other ways of of finding that sort of information. Um but it does does help us to sort of think in the in the you know um in the physicality of the materials and you know clay is just one example. We do we use stuff with other other kinds of other kinds of making as well. As I said there's there's there's um um mosaic materials and um uh book binding and and various printing um sort of activities. Um as well um we run various sort of openhouse sessions so for for large events including sort of cultural events and festivals in in Senate House. Um we have a weekly sort of office hour. So every Thursday morning it's a drop-in session. We have two um two graduate students who are paid to to to staff the space in that time and that's when people can come in and ask um ask about um the use of um 3D printers or printing presses or other other materials and um equipment in there. Um and we're um in particular we're um we're running a range of and we're we're interested in developing um a range of training events for the cultural heritage industry. So libraries and museums um in particular. So we um we quite often run um 3D imaging um workshops for the endangered material knowledge program in the British Museum. We have virtual archaeology um events which we co-run with um with again with the British Museum, British Library and other um other partners um around um and the kinds of activities um that um that that that the space has sort of engendered expertise in um both both both in and around our our department. um other kinds of things that I think are particularly of interest to the the glam sector and we're we're very keen to build those those connections. Um the the equipment that we have in the space um includes as I've mentioned um quite a few of these um already. So, we have um we have a range of of cameras um from the the sort of fairly high-end digital SLR 5,000 camera um to to some much more sort of portable, borrowable um easily usable cameras. Um we have uh the the 3D printers that I've already mentioned um which cost between about £1,000 and £5,000 depending on the depending on the model. These are these are relatively low-end 3D printers. I mean, a home 3D printer is is maybe at the low end of of that of that price range. Um, but um but £5,000 is by no means the most expensive 3D printer you can um you can get. Um we have some some high highish end computers. Again, um a few,000 for for a for a gaming computer um is not um you know, it's not what you'd necessarily need for an astrophysics lab, but it's um it's it's more than your university will give give a member of staff to keep in their office. um single board computers, they you know they cost not much more than £100 each. Um those small Raspberry Pies and similar um and then um a range of other equipment which um which vary widely um in price. So virtual reality headsets which can cost anything from a couple hundred to a couple of thousand pounds. Drones, we tend to go for the very small and very cheap drones partly because if they're any larger than that, we're not allowed to fly them fly them outside um in a city. Um and um we have a robotic camera mount which you know enables various types of panoramic and and 360deree um photography. um the printing presses, those um those again they vary in price, but um the they're normally ones that you you can't just sort of buy, you know, you can't find them advertised on eBay quite quite so easily. But um but you know, quite often there's some some some other heritage center might be getting rid of one or or you know, a printing um company might might, you know, have had this heritage press lying around for ages and and now need the space. Um and so one, you know, quite often these things become available, you know, relatively cheap, um or even free if you're willing to collect them. But but you know, they do weigh the bigger ones can weigh hundreds of kilos. So um collecting them isn't necessarily cheap either. Um as I said, we have um we have bookbinding materials, mosaic tiles, air drying clay, um various various other equipment. um and um smaller equipment sort of lying around like craft knives, various tools and both for for for maintenance and repair of our of our own kit but also for other kinds of crafting. Um and um essentially um as our health and safety um uh made clear to us, if we've got um those sorts of sharp objects, we've we've also got um you know a first aid kit, we've got a sharps box, we got you know various um various kinds of things. um and and you know training and um so forth to uh to make sure people people are stay safe um in the in the space um the uh the people who are involved in running this. So there are um two of us who are mega space leads. We we we are the the we have the departmental responsibility for managing the space. Um so I as I say I'm mostly interested in the 3D and photography and imaging side of things and I work also with with classical studies and my colleague Kuna is um primarily interested in the the computer hardware side of things and runs the the computer vision and AI um activities. um the manager of the digital human research hub um sort of manages the accounts and so forth and and also does a lot of a lot of general sort of day-to-day work on making um making sure things happen in the space. the digital humanities training lead um my colleague Christopher Og who is in the um who is both in digital humanities and in and in English um has a lot of um a lot of oversight of of that sort of thing of our training program our short courses um and um taster sessions um and also um as it happens manages the the the printing press activities along with um colleagues in English um we do have two um student associates who are who are paid the these are the two students who um who attend every Thursday morning um over the course of the year and also available for other other kinds of activities um occasionally one-off activities um where we do demos and um stalls and so forth for the for the mega space. Um we also many of our PhD students also get involved as teaching assistants in some of the some of the workshops. Um we're various institutional partners both both within the University of London in other um other institutes and other um other nearby libraries. Um so we have colleagues in in Burkebeck for example and and SOASS who who get involved in some of our activities um and uh librarians again throughout the school throughout the University of London in particular Senate House Library um who who get involved in activities who help supervise activities and design activities and collaborate with us on funded activities um and of course everyone who uses the space whether they be um students um guests other academic colleagues people who've come from the outsides you know with with a a small scale academic project where a bit of 3D printing would be um would be useful for them. Um every every person like that contributes to the the sort of collective brain that makes the the mega space um possible as a as a sort of um activity. So that's um that's really a sort of background of where the mega space comes from and I think that's that's that's led to it being um what it is. So I'll I'll sort of stop there but um very just to say I'm you know very happy to discuss this this further. for me obviously both in the discussion um now but also um in the longer term if anyone wants to get in touch um please do so my my email address is on the screen there um I noticed a few people in London on the um thing if you wanted to come and visit we'd be delighted to to meet you and you know always happy to think about you know ideas and collaborations and um and so forth so thank you all very much >> thank you Gabby that's fascinating I'm sure there's going to be lots of questions for for you at the end. I know I've got a few written down already. Um, thank you so much. So, now we will hand on to Euan Grant. Hello, Euan. Um, so Yuan is here to do our our second presentation. So, over over to you, Yuan. Thank you. >> Thank you. I'll just get set up with my slides. That was very fascinating from Gabby there. And that was obviously quite a a detailed look at one particular area within their uh service. And what I'm going to be talking about is a bit more of a kind of broader scale more a sense of as you can see from the title beyond the library evolving space planning at the University of Aberdine in the sense of beyond the library in terms of the people involved across the institution in the planning that we're doing um and potentially taking the library out of our current buildings. So, uh, I'm based at, if nobody's ever traveled all the way up to Aberdine, I'm based at the s really beautiful Sir Duncan Rice Library. There will be some images that you'll see as I'm going through my slides. My job in general, I am a information consultant. You can see from that slide there, a title that doesn't really describe much. I would class myself as a subject librarian and I tend to deal with the arts and humanities subjects. I've worked in law library across manner of different subjects and but I also have some involvement with kind of leading on the customer experience within the library. I've worked at Aberdine now for over 20 years. Um but all of my roles have been very front-facing. I've had users at the core of the work that I do. be that teaching information literacy particular subject specific resources helping to manage the inquiry service and also looking at different ways in which the uh library spaces kind of best meet the change in needs of our different users and and I suppose one sense to give you a sense of the scale of how long I've been working within libraries many years ago I at one of my first jobs working in Aberine University Library it was my job to encourage people to use the self-issue machines. We just got those in. People were avoiding them. Oh, they're a little bit scared of them. So, was one of my jobs to get people to to use the self-issue machine. And I suppose that point is that students and technology and collections have changed so much in that 20 years, which can make can at times be the most interesting part of the job, but can also very much be one of the most challenging parts of the job because there's that always constant change. not just within the library but also the the broader context of the institution that we work within but also the sector within which we're all operating. So in terms of what I'm planning to talk about I've kept a very simple kind of process. I'm going to spend a bit of time talking about the past things that we have done and changes that we have made within our spaces. I'll then talk about what we're currently embarking on uh that I would kind of class as what's innovative for us the way we're looking looking at the spaces um and kind of plans for the future as well. Um I think that's as much to set out there. Yeah, I so in terms of the past, as I was saying, some of the changes that we've made, I'll then talk about two more strategic uh initiatives that are happening within the University of Aberdine that go beyond the library looking at studies based alongside a host of other matters across the university. And then when I come to talk about the future, I'm kind of concluding with how I hope these initiatives um will make a difference to how we as the library operate elsewhere across the institution and just to make sure that we're making the best use of the spaces that we have. But there's also the reality like most if not well I would say many but probably most people in the UK higher education at the moment we have a finite physical footprint a flat or shrinking budget um a changing and challenged sector but we always still have students and staff that are demanding innovation in their learning and research and the spaces in which are available to do that. And yes, that's the first picture of the stunan rice library that you could see there on the right hand side. Just to give the context in terms of when I say us as a library, what we are and what we have, we have four libraries and for approximately 15,000 students. So on the left hand side there you'll see we have the Sedun Rice Library which is the main library. It covers the vast majority of subjects taught and researched at the University of Aberdine. Then we have the Taylor library which is also on the same campus the old Aberdine campus. Um and that is the law library law and official publications. Also we have the medical library which is based up at uh the Aberdine Royal Infirmary. So that's makes sense to have the the medical library up there where the students are most of the time. And we do also have we have a library out in Qar that I've never been to visit because we have a a satellite institution out there. But I'm not really speaking about Qar at the moment in this talk. But in a sense of the scale of what we have, you know, the Sunken Rice Library, for example, I think has a maximum capacity of 1,200 spaces. I don't believe we've ever really crossed a thousand people at any one time, particularly exam times. But even not being full, it appears full and the students feel it is full for various reasons as in they can't sit next to their friends which is an understandable thing. The law library, Taylor library is approximately 500 seats and the medical library again it's a little bit smaller is 350 seats. So just doing quick maths in my head. So we're looking at about 2,000 seats for 15,000 students. So, um, not everyone can get a seat at all times. Thankfully, they don't all come. And just today is the first day of actual teaching back here in Aberdeene. So, it's actually nice to actually see some students in the building, which is uh my my opinion may change after a few weeks of busyiness. Um, so as you get a sense, there's different demands for these different spaces from different groups of people at different times of the year. So, that's always changing. Some people want silent study at one time, other people want quiet group. So, we're always having to provide those options for those that are using our spaces. So, the past. So, this is a a photo from the inside of the Sunken Rice Library. It is a glorious lightfilled beautiful space. However, there is a massive hole, a beautiful atrium that runs the whole length of the building or whole height of the building. Um, we've been open since 2011 and we had the grand opening a year later from her late majesty Queen Elizabeth II. Um, full height atrium. One of the issues was we had a little bit of everything in terms of group or terms of types of study space on every floor. So, we had silent study rooms. We also had group working areas. We also had quiet spaces and it kind of quite quickly became apparent that that wasn't really keeping everybody happy. So it made it very difficult for the staff to manage the expectations of the students because everybody was trying to do different things beside each other and in a sense that was dictated by the design of the building and we never had the opportunity to to set that before the building actually opened. Um so noise management came in various forms of feedback. What we actually ended up doing particularly postcoid we formed some focus groups due to responses that were getting back through various means and these focus groups were not conducted by the library staff themselves. We made use of an excellent team that we have here at the university called the experience engagement and well-being team. They're very much they sit outside the library are very much focused on the customer experience the student experience here at the university. So they managed the focus groups. I myself went along to one of the focus groups but it was very much the case we weren't doing interact we were just to be making notes which was difficult because you knew the answers but that was the whole point of giving them that opportunity to speak freely about their experiences of making use of the different buildings. Um the focus groups really really were very helpful. It reinforced some things that we were certainly aware of, but it did raise some some other issues as well. But what it really did give us that sense that the reassigning the floors by type of study was really really important and I appreciate a lot of institutions do it in that way. We hadn't done that within this building. So we very much split the building into group areas, quiet areas and silent. And we have one silent study floor with suitable signage that makes it quite clear to individuals what is expected of them when they come out onto a particular floor within the Sedun Rice Library. And we also then replicated that across the Taylor Library and the medical library in terms of perhaps not different floors but again areas to allow people to understand kind of what was anticipated and expected. And that was quite a big strategic adjustment that we were able to make. It had been kind of long time coming and I'll speak a bit more about that in terms of the time scales of making any changes within libraries. Um but there was very relatively little space spent to make those adjustments. just some new signage and promotion through various channels through ourselves but also again with help from the engagement experience and well-being team to get that message out to the students. Um it really has improved the situation within the building but it hadn't fixed everything. Um so we then went a step further and this is while there were still some capital spend funds available um in recent years it's been like many universities we really had to be cutting our cloth quite close so there wasn't a great deal of money around for any capital builds but what we were able to do roughly about half a million pounds was spent on this is floor two of the Sunken Rice Library My understanding that the initial costs were possibly half of that. But it was a case that once the work began, it came down to in a sense the utilities in the building weren't as we were anticipating. Wiring was different. Um that floor had been full of our remaining print journals that we still are on open access. As you might understand, those things were becoming less and less used. There was concern Um we went out and consulted with academics about how they would feel about us removing those print journals to our store that sits just outside the city center. Um but there was minimal um concern. There was obviously you'll have the few people who will always raise those objections but once we kind of put some mitigating practices in place they were on the other they were very happy with us making this change. when we explained the need it was the need of for the students and so it was kind of really quite vital. So, what we've been able to do, we've been able to add a great deal of group study booths. In this photograph at the top, you'll be able to see those mainly off in the distance and a lot more group study tables here on your left hand side. And kind of behind me when I took this photograph and off to the right hand side as well, we have more of those group study uh booths and tables. So, it really is the whole floor has been set to that. And one of the reasons again why this floor was picked for this is it's the only second floor up. So as you might imagine in a building with a full height atrium, noise does travel up from the ground floor where we have a cafe. Um so it is a a challenge uh to have such a a beautiful space but it does cause noise issues within the building. Um, also on this floor we were again because of feedback we've been receiving from students were able to create a a small well-being area in terms of with crafts, knitting, board games that people are making use of because we're having to constantly tidy it up. a colleague of mine initiated a like a green wall, a crocheted green wall of flowers um that students have been adding to and it's that sense we're trying to encourage them to step away from their studying um because probably be aware so many students spend so much of their day within the library. So it's been able to provide that option and opportunity to give their brain a break um from those sorts of uh activities. We also have what we call our inclusive collections area. Now this came about through uh promoting resources and matters around EDI you know and it's part of an institutionwide strategic principle to address these matters um uh within the teaching research and the working and study environment at the University of Aberdine. And quite recently, we've actually had some students engaging with library staff to help create uh sorry, curate some of those collections and create displays as part of their coursework. And I do know there is intention for more of that sort of work um to happen because one of the things certainly when I do my uh talks to students I deal with across arts and humanities I always try and make the point that it's not our library it's their library it's your library. So it's about getting that sense of community and engagement and agency of using the collection. So it's a it's a really wonderful development that some of my colleagues have been involved with. Um however this has been very popular and expanding um the number of group areas but it led to us identifying a new need because what we were discovering that while a lot of these booths some of them can maybe hold about four people but some of them you could quite easily sit six or seven people the people were coming in sitting at one of the large booths and arranging their their jackets and their bags to discuss encourage anybody else from sitting down. So it helped us to identify something that we were probably aware of but hadn't quite been so clear on the need for private individual booths and uh study corrals and that's something that we are working towards as well. Um in terms of the the funding um the difficulty we had with that some of the money we'd received the library received a bequest in what's called our university's development trust. So we've been able to draw down some of that money. So Simon Baines, university librarian and other senior staff have been using quite uh innovative ways to drive the funding um during financially tight times and because again it's all about finding new ways to do things in these difficult days in which we are operating. Now I would like people to note the shiny red pillars uh on this floor. Now in general this building is gray and white. That is it. But all of a sudden we have red pillars who appeared on the second floor and I just want briefly to explain what that is about. So this is a an innovative use of a research library that we got involved with this summer. Um, I don't know how many of you have Netflix and are aware of a television series called Department Q, but we were very lucky to be involved and selected um to be a venue to be a location for some of the filming for the second series that is due to come out in the summer of next year. I'm not really permitted to say anything more than that. Um, but it certainly was it was interesting. I was involved with that process. Um it certainly new for library staff and the estate staff at the university but uh I think everybody got involved found it very interesting. Um so whether we ourselves get used as a a filming location again we'll wait and see. Um, but also you could argue it's, you know, money was paid for us to be used as a venue and so potentially a new revenue stream for the for the library and the university as well because for those of you who haven't been up to University of Aberdine, we are in a very beautiful old campus and kind of on the edge of the city and it's how would I put it? It's photogenic and would uh lend itself well to being involved in lots of different television series. So, if any of you are involved or know any location managers, please get in touch with uh my estate colleagues if you're know somebody who's wanting to do some filming. um some other changes that have come out you know so that group study flow and floor group is quite a strategic piece of work but as you'll understand we're often a bit more reactive depending on the scale of the issue that's brought to our attention so I just want to cover some other examples of work that we've done this image at the top that I wish was slightly less out of focus um group study areas that we were able to place within or medical library. Again, great demand was requested for that. Um, we have put silent study corrals into Taylor. We know that that has really worked and that's the sort of model that we're going to be bringing into this library and sunken rice library and placing up on the top floor whereas you might imagine things are a lot quieter by the time you reach seven floors up within the building. Um other changes that have happened, we had one prayer space and I was involved in conversations with the university chaplain and also with Aberdine University Muslim student association in that there was a need for two spaces. So we have managed to achieve that over the course of uh the last summer and but because of that we lost a bookable group study room. So we are now changing silent study room into a bookable uh group study area. So again it's always that finding that balance where the demand comes to you. Another rather quick win that came out of survey feedback was the desire for dual monitors for some students. I'm currently speaking to you here with my laptop and I've got two screens. And I imagine many students have that set up in their home, but when they come to the library don't always have that available to them. So we have begun uh to provide that on a on a small scale. I would imagine that's going to be stepped up more so over the years because that will be cheaper than purchasing PCs. Providing monitors which students can then attach their own devices to is a win for them and it'll be a win for the university financially as well. which is great. Just as I take a a drink of some cold water that wasn't timed, we've also recently installed a hot water tap. Doesn't sound very exciting, but it was one of the repeated demand that we'd asked. We've got that down on the ground floor so people can get boiling water, make their own cups of tea, etc. Again, we had to negotiate that with the catering division of the university that manages the cafe on the ground floor. They were like, well, you're going to draw custom away from us. But again, they understood the need for that because the cafe isn't always open um when the building is open. So, again, it's getting that um balance. My favorite word of this uh presentation and another in a sense innovative source of funding for the hot water tap. I'm also I'm a secretary to what we have called the friends of Aberdine University Library which is the the charity that sits aside uh the university library and university collections. It's been on the go since 1967 kind of supporting the work of the library. initially I suppose was instigated to help with the building of the collections and we still are involved with using funding from within the friends to buy interesting collections but we also went to the friends of the library to provide the hot the funding for the hot water tap you know so it's again clever ways to get the money in difficult times and as I said the new silent study corrals are on their way so What drove these changes? Feedback really what drove this? I first of all would like to say our libraries are too popular. We're too good. Um so in particular Sunan Rice Library it's such a beautiful and stunning building has such a gravity. It really draws people towards using it and because has a cafe on the ground floor with a gallery space it really is um quite a beautiful place and students want to be based within it. feedback that we'd receive from the the national student survey NSS and also our local Aberine student experience survey that we run normally yearly but it can be yearly or every couple of years we use that again we can ask more specific questions can vary those every year we get a lot of great feedback out of it we have fantastic relationships as a library with the student union here within the university so we're always getting feedback from them as I mentioned earlier on discussions with chaplency and the student association the Muslim student association here in Aberdine UX Libs I'd like to think there will be some people in the call that have attended the fantastic U libs conferences that take place um I've attended I have a colleagues that have attended and it's really invigorated us to try and do smallcale interactions with students to get feedback um and we did quite a few smallcale things around the initially the creation of a silent study floor and that again stems from that and I think one of the things we really took from that I certainly did is don't try and overthink things just start small and just start asking questions but it's then just making sure you've got the resources and the ability to to do something with the the feedback that you get. Um, one of the issues sometimes is that we are reactive and you need to be reactive, but sometimes it's just reactive and it's getting that balance from being able to think strategically and that's not something we've been able to do over the last maybe three years because of the financial situation. Um but in terms of who has actually made these changes happen fundamentally initially starting in the top leftand corner it has been the students the students have really driven that which is great we also have a really important group we work very conjoined we're in a conjoined service in the library alongside it and we have a customer experience group that brings staff from across all of the directorate of library or information services and we meet four times a year initially really looking at the feedback from the NSS and other surveys that we get and then been able senior level to begin to develop plans and actions to implement some of those changes. So there are there has been strategic thinking. I mentioned the wonderful team very briefly earlier on student experience engagement and well-being. Um they are really useful source of information but they're also a great avenue to feed back to the wider community because they've got such good relationships with the students. Um so it's very much a partnership with them where things are heavily IT dependent. As I said we work very closely with IT services. Um, for example, we have IT service main IT service desk is within this building here. They used to be secreted away in a a less than easy to find location. So, we've brought them into this building um where they are located next to our main library ask question point. We've also got the IT service desk there. Various library teams are involved at different in different ways. And obviously we have the university's states team who we have to engage with um particularly when we're making any adjustment changes any um what's the word technical I'm not finding the words you know electricians joiners we we need to engage with them to come in and do the work coordinate with them to find the the right and best time when certain pieces of work can happen. So the present, this is where we've got to now. And I just want to say you wait for a bus and then two or three turn up at once. So there have been conversations over the last three years that we've been hearing from the senior management of the university and that they were wanting to do a good full scale audit of all the spaces that we have um for various types of use. Um but again because of the the climate in which we're all operating it was getting pushed further and further down the agenda. But now thankfully we've got some more strategic projects up but we've now got two of them. Um which sounds great but it's going to increase the need for coordination. I'll just kind of talk about the two different schemes that we've just got going. First of all we have the student partnership agreement. Now this is something that was instigated last year in 2025. We have these every three years. It's my understanding the student union team meets with predominately with the experience engagement and well-being team to set about an agenda for different things that we can work together to facilitate for the student community. Um, last year it was very much just setting the agenda of what it was going to be. And it thankfully has come out to be a project all about spaces, but not just study spaces. It's also social space and sport space within our c uh within our campuses. And while sport maybe not such a relevant area within the the library world, the social aspect very much is because there's a there it can be argued there's not enough social space on our campus and the the nature of our building and the attractiveness of our building lends itself to becoming a social space which then impinges on the study space that we we wish to be having. Um so the fact that there's now the student body working alongside professional services including ourselves to address these particularly looking at questions of inclusion accessibility availability at different times of day year during the week and how useful uh or what it is that we have. So again that combination that's a student union then experience and engagement it the library and estates. So we're in a sense formalizing the partnerships that we already have um to do some work on this. Obviously the library and the it we're very much focused on the study aspect of the student partnership agreement project. Um, in particular, we're looking at doing an audit of all the spaces, not with just within the library, but across our campuses, be that here down in Old Aberine or up at the Aberine the the Aberdine Royal Infirmary campus as well. And then working out what do we have and better promoting what we have and there'll obviously potentially be some changes um to some of those spaces. So thankfully compared to some of the more reactive things this feels like a very strategic piece of work and a lot more proactive um in that sense of taking a bit more control over the direction of where we're heading. So that's one of the buses that has recently arrived. The second bus is on a much bigger scale and it's called the curriculum transformation project. um that began this year and that I believe is operating on a roughly 3 to 5 year time scale and it's looking at all education uh provision and infrastructure across not only the physical infrastructure that we have but also the digital infrastructure and the library is very much involved with that at a senior level. um Simon Baines for example and um a colleague Mr. Mr. who I believe is on this call um have been involved and I know Simon has repeatedly put forward the need again for an audit of the spaces um and I this has now been taken on board as a key aspect and a key focus of the work that's going to be taking place. So it's that benefit of being at the table while these strategic convers conversations are taking place because in a sense so much of the demand was falling on the library. Oh, you don't have enough this space but we have a finite building. So finally we're able to have the conversation about there's a lot more buildings on this campus. How do we um share the load if you like um elsewhere? Now, obviously, this is a broader piece of work than the student partnership agreement, but it's something that we're going to have to connect up with. I personally am involved with the student partnership agreement uh in the study piece of work that's happening there but I know my other colleagues are heavily involved in the curriculum transformation project and it's about being able to have those conversations making sure the connections are happening so that messages and wishes aren't lost but also to ensure that there isn't duplication of effort and that's absolutely not what we want to be happening. Okay. So in essence, we're going to be reviewing all study space in charge in terms of these issues. Um develop recommendation and implementation plans and just ensure that we do actually have for the future the future flexible and accessible learning environment for all students um that make use of the University of Aberdine. Last last slide just on the curriculum transformation project. Some of the challenges that we will face and need to be conscious of as we go through this piece of work. Obviously the broader higher education environment at the moment and the financial situation. Um in addition to this transformation project, our university is going through an institutional restructuring changing um the way departments are arranged. Was it faculty, subject departments, colleges that conversation has been taking place. So we need to make sure is the library does it have the right structure to match and meet the needs that are coming out from the institutional restructuring. Um, oh, I've skipped past somewhere. My my animation went a bit wrong there. Um, obviously, one of the things that I'm always very conscious of within the library whenever we're making any changes to the building, very conscious of the seasonal nature and the cyclical nature of academic libraries. You know, we're busy at certain times. Students are here, students aren't here. So, that to a certain extent dictates the work that we're able to do. and and also we will be forced to operate within committee structures and procedures um within an institution like a university. Um now everybody I will have their own committee structures that could be um rather bzzantian and it's how do you get decisions and changes through that in a timely useful manner. um every institution is faced by that challenge. Now say I am very happy that we are now working in their strategic way. I have to be honest there's a little bit of be careful what you wish for. We've been waiting for this and now we've got two processes. So it's just making sure we we get that balance right and how we go about doing that work. Um moving on to the future. Um where to next? I'm also conscious of the time. Um so what what are we looking to for the future? Um as I said very much delighted that strategic thinking is very much back on the agenda. The senior management of the university now appreciate that library spaces cannot provide everything um or the students certainly for their study needs and their social needs. Um but it's about we need to operate on a small scale because it can be fast, agile and reactive which is great where we can be but we also need to operate on the big scale um which will be slower but you got greater sense of collaboration and the proactive aspect to it that sense of taking some control over. So absolutely both have merit between the proactive and the reactive but you need them both and it's it's managing that you know in that sense of the library really is a supporting character and within an institution like a university we're not the main character. So our sense of agency while we have some is limited by the work of others and it's accepting that and also accepting what agency you have to influence the work of others. So it's a negotiations discussions that need to take place but we always have ideas for some things for the future. I'll maybe just list a few of these as I come to the end of my talk. Um so some ideas for the future the balance getting the balance the innovative planning is happening now but we're maybe not at the stage of while we have been making some innovative changes to our spaces I feel there is certainly room for more to come um one of the thoughts I've been having quite recently is can you take the library BL brand elsewhere out onto campus you know I'm not saying we're going to create new libraries but could you have little libraries little spaces is that can be silent study areas that people understand that's what that space is for. Um, one other option, for example, I talked about how we removed the journals from floor two of Sunken Rice Library. That obviously opened up space. As we all know, the borrowing of physical materials is reducing over the years. Do we need as many physical books as we currently have in this library? We've been open for 15 years. that needle dropped. We do have an off-site store, but it has very little space within it. So again, the removal of physical content would be either a very difficult and large scale project or do you just slowly nibble away um at removing some of the stock? Um thankfully, it's not something we're dealing with at the moment, but just kind of thinking ahead. One of the things uh that I'm certainly keen to do and as I'll point you back to the idea of we have a beautiful atrium and is perhaps using the library space as a space for some performances and perhaps getting we teach and research music at the University of Aberdine. So there are students who are studying music. Could they come in make use of the library space? I don't know. one day a week for a cup for a half hour, do little performances, encourage people to take a break from their studying. Um, absolutely wish we had a maker space and Gabby's talk really was quite fascinating to see. And there was one point there was something about a ramming hand. I do want to ask a question about that later in one of his slides. Um, and a recent thing that's very recently a recent thing that's very recently happened. Um our student union has just instigated a library of things, tools, hoovers, various things that student might need. Um and I'm want to open our conversation with them about is there any ways in which we can help promote that and that sense of sharing suppose that's what a library is about. It's about sharing space, sharing resources. So if we can help others with sharing others things, I think that's fantastic. But it is it's all about getting the balance. We're always searching for that balance and do we have the resourcing to provide the changes that we need. So it's that conversation externally and internally in well and I'm now going to finish talking and that's just another gorgeous image of our library of an evening. Um yeah it truly I'm just very uh what's the word? Proud of the library. I'm just happy to show it off. I will now stop talking. Thank you very much for your attention. >> Brilliant. Thank you very much, Euan. Hope you can hear all hear me again now. >> Yes. Sorry if I open a bit. >> No, no, that that's it's it's brilliant and lots and lots of things in in common with what we're doing here in Newcastle, but we'll we'll we'll come on to that. Um I'll also invite Gabby back to the session now and we'll pick up on the Q&A if that's all right. So, let's get started with things in the in the Q&A. So, so Gabby, one for you to begin with, and you covered this, I think, partly in in in your presentation, and it was around training and supervision and and how you get students able to to use the the equipment that you've got. Yes, this is this is an issue for for I mean for any kind of users whether whether students or or academic colleagues or or indeed outside outside colleagues is that um in the first instance you know we want to make sure they're they have some sort of induction to the space and the sorts of behaviors that are that are expected in there and then this training in the use of the hardware um the hardware itself. So 3D printers in particular, it's very easy to to to try and turn on a 3D printer, not knowing what it'll do and, you know, end up having bits grinding against each other or or indeed grinding against your hand trapped in there, which we know we don't want to happen either. Um there's massive metal printing presses. Likewise, if you sort of pull down a sort of 10 kilo piece of metal, you you know, want to make sure you haven't got anything in there. Um but um but but it is it is it is a you know there's there's an ongoing sort of question between um balance of not wanting to um to sort of have to physically be there to supervise every single person who wants to use the space. We want this to be a very collaborative space but making sure that that you know people are going to be able to use it you know responsibly and be well trained. So um in the first instance we we know we require everyone to to have you know some sort of induction to the space and training if if what they're doing is involving any particular hardware. Um there's also security issues right some of these very expensive pieces of equipment. We want people to use this but we don't just want hundreds of people to have the door code and be able to wander in and pick up a 5,000 camera that you know might walk away. Um >> yes yes quite. And I think I think following following on from that I I a question that I had was around um are you able to cope with demand because I would imagine this this facility is is very popular. So do do can you cope with demand or do you have to prioritize use? >> We do prioritize um to some degree. We we also have um we have a process for um you know people who want to get in touch and use it for their own purposes rather than coming along to events that we're organizing. um that that is a bit of a a gatekeeper I suppose is the is the thing slows down demand slightly just it puts a barrier to entry in that that that means people have to sort of think carefully but it also enables us to um you know potentially if three people are interested in the same thing we say well let's organize a taster session on that and then we can you know we can get that sort of thing started I mean induction is you know something we don't do on a one one you know on a case by case basis we try to sort of manage that over the course over the course of time but Um but yeah, the internal demand is starting to become starting to become an issue and that you know wanting to use the space for running training and and workshops and various other kinds of events. We we we are starting to sort of you know not to trade on each other's toes but we're starting to sort of jostle at the door a little bit. >> Yeah. And and linked to that there was a question about how you chose the equipment to to go into the space and is that constantly evolving and and how do how do you make decisions on on that? So that does evolve a little bit over time. Yes. Um the the initial um choice was equipment that we particularly wanted for for a particular activity. So um uh the the initial brand of equipment we we acquired was almost um almost entirely things that I wanted and I wrote the bid. You know I did ask other people and we had a couple of other suggest suggestions and things we added to that. But but you know I really wanted the sort of 3D imaging and 3D printing equipment and you know that that we spent tens of thousands of pounds on that and that was you know that was um sort of um and and a certain amount of budget goes on to replacing and keep maintaining that sort of equipment. Um and um in terms of what changes we can make that's also managed by um by how much how much budget you know we have. we, you know, we can't um we can't say, "Oh, we, you know, we'd suddenly like one of these new £10,000 3D printers," because we'd have to save about three years of our budget to >> Yeah. >> to do that. Um but uh but yes, there is there is an ongoing conversation about what what we need to use the space for and what we need in order to use it in that way. We're, you know, we're currently having a big conversation about um you know, what sort of tables we want to put in there. >> Yeah. Lovely. Thank you. Thank you. Let's have a look at a couple of questions that were for for for Euan. So Euan, thank you for your presentation. How effective do you think the continuous improvement approach does your study spaces has been? Is there anything you done differently or did the iterative approach work best? >> I I think it has to be iterative, you know, because students don't stop telling you what they want. They're always coming with questions. They're always discussed. I was very impressed with the amount of comments about taps. I didn't know I was going to set that off, but I'm not surprised. The other one we have is microwaves. There's always a battle for a microwave. Um >> I did wonder whether we'd end up going down a microwave um loop at some point. >> Sorry to bring that up. Um I I think that has to be iterative, but it can it can actually feel quite exhausting when you're just reacting all the time. Um, and you just you feel a greater sense of not control that you're really addressing the big picture rather than just fixing one thing. But it's the nature of the type of spaces that we have. You can't do a wholesale change. The wholesale change was building the new library and opening in 2011. So, you kind of have to do it. And I'm pointing you to the point I was making about the seasonal nature. There's only certain times of the year that you can make a lot of those big changes. Um, for example, we got new gates just because the old scooty gates had died. Um, so they've come back in, they're new, they're great, they work, but they're slightly different cuz students have to scan their card in a slightly different way. So we're now got people standing there going, "Actually, no, no, no. You put your card here." >> Yeah. But they'll they'll get it. So it I suppose it ultimately comes down to the resource. Do you have the ability to engage with those questions you're getting asked? But it's also about being honest. I think you just got to say yes, we hear you, but we can't do it just now. Rather than saying yes, let's think about it. You just got to be honest with the students. Um that's just a general good policy in life. >> Fridges, no chance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I noticed one about fridges. Um, another one for you. Actually, it follows on a little bit from from what we've just been saying around communication. Um, and you mentioned putting mitigating measures in place to appease academics before moving your print journals and could do you want to say a little bit more about how you did that? Yeah, it it was a handful of academics but then a a you might imagine more arts and humanities um focused areas. Um they were just concerned cuz what we still had in our library as far as I can recall these were print journals. Some of them we were still getting as print and ones we didn't have digital access to. So, we allowed them to tell us which ones they were most concerned about and we've made like a mini mini collection in a separate area, heavy demand collection, so they can still get their hands on them. When the new part comes out, they can come and get them. So, it was a very small change. It was a very small change, but the vast majority of people were supportive of it or just didn't express an opinion one way or the other. >> Lovely. Thank you. I've got one more for you before I go to to to to Gabby. And it might just give you a second. Do you have a picture of your crocheted green wall? I'll come back to you. >> No. >> No. Oh, >> I can get one. >> Well, that's what I was wondering. Give you a couple of minutes. >> Okay. I would have to run downstairs if you >> Oh, I see. Oh, I see you could go and take one anyway. So, so there's interest in seeing what your your space looks like. It's about it's maybe about half the height of a 5 foot seven man and it's just slowly filling up. But I think with the I wish that it would become bigger and bigger and bigger. It's a beautiful thing. It really is lovely. >> Yeah. And one last question related to that. Do you supply the craft supplies and how manageable is that? It could be tricky, but it it's actually we've put calls out and kind of through social media and we've had academic staff, support staff, people coming in, oh, I've got all this. I thought I would become a knitter. Turns out I'm not very good at it. I don't want to do it. So, we've we've almost got too many knitting needles. Uh, so yes, but it's a regular thing. We put out calls for that. So, we haven't had to spend money. We haven't spent money because the community kind of comes together. >> Yeah. Grand. Thank you. You're welcome, >> Gabby. 28,000 seems kind of cheap to set up a lab like yours. Um, it sounds very cheap, actually. Um, so what about ongoing maintenance costs or development costs? How how's that managed? >> Yeah, I mean, it is it is cheap, but the, you know, it covered the equipment we needed, you know, at the time. I mean, the the pot I applied for in 2022 was um, I think a maximum of £50,000 pot. So, you know, I could have asked for a little bit more, but you know, that was that that worked for the initial the initial setup. Um, in terms of ongoing costs, um, we have occasional um, you know, opportunities to sort of apply for, you know, estates funding or whatever, capital funding to, um, to get to get big pieces of new equipment, but our sort of running costs are in the region of I think 3 to 5,000 a year. Um and that includes sort of maintenance um um thing you know occasional new purchases but also consumables like you know three 3D printing filament and and things like that that we need to ink for the printing presses um that um that we replace over over time and you know and obviously paying for the time of our student assistants and things like that that >> um that go on and and it is um having having this sort of ongoing income does does mean that we we're we're also under pressure to monetize this a little bit, right? So, we do we do run training events in there that are um that are for um for a fee. Um and that's um that's obviously normal, but um but it is something we have to sort of keep an eye on. You know, the university in a sense sees themselves as having invested in this and they, you know, they expect it to not necessarily to pay for itself, but you know, to pay for itself in terms of value to the community and and to the university's um ongoing um you know, strategy and and um and function. So, and as as you as you may know, the University of London's function is has a sort of a national brief. So we're we're um we're designed to be an infrastructure and strategy um and research promotion facilitation um provider for um the UK humanities community um not um not just trying to make as much money as possible from you know from large numbers of undergraduate students. We don't have any undergraduate students in in the in the school advanced studies. So so we do have this national brief. So being able to show that we've collaborated with other universities in the UK um is you know is is us demonstrating our um our support for the university strategy. >> Yeah. Good. Thank you. And there's one last question in the Q&A and again that's for you Gabby. Are the library staff members you mentioned working fulltime on this project? Um, no, almost no one in the library is full-time on on any project related to the to the maker space. I mean, my I I have I also have many other sort of responsibilities and managing the space is is is just one of them. But um but no, I mean the the various library staff who um we collaborate with. So one of them is for example the the um the person who's the archavist of the Institute of Classical Studies um Helen and Roman library and um you know being the archavist is not that person's only job and you know supervising students who are 3D imaging objects in their archives is not the only job of an archavist either. So it's um you know these these are people who you know who are extremely um generous with their time and very collaborative and you know we do work with quite a lot but um but uh yeah we no no one is is full-time on this. If if the maker space was based in the library, obviously that would that would require a little bit more library support for it. Um, in terms of the, you know, the number of person hours to to run this space. Um, part part of the reason we don't have people hammering down our door so much is that, you know, we're not in a space where people are constantly flowing through it expecting the the resources around them to be available to them. So if there are sort of study rooms and bookable spaces and all these sort of things and one of those is a maker space, people would be there in a space expecting that these things are available to them and we'd get we'd get much more. So I I suspect there'd be a little bit more of sort of resource management needed in that in that um circumstance. So we um we did we did initially in in 2022 discuss physically locating the maker space in the Senate House Library. um that ended up not being the way we the way we organized it partly because we wanted so many outside facing events that you know access was um was an issue but um but that's it is it is slightly different from a library-based mega space and I' I'd be very interested in in you know talking with someone about you know what a library based mega space would look like I know there are there are a few I more mega spaces are in library the