Richard Hammond: The Untold Story Of My 320mph Crash & My 1 Minute Memory! | E221

he was answering a question that had always wondered when am I gonna die it was like oh it's now would you please welcome Richard how Ard BBC Top Gear presenter Grand Tour presenter one for the biggest TV shows in history and it's fair to say that he has the best job in the world be funny quicker every compensatory measure that anybody who's diminutive in height has ever made I've done it's one of the reasons I'm a broadcaster now sure there's a cost to that though yeah what's the cost was there a Moment In the Journey of top game where you thought yourself this is big we went out in front of 60 000 people and just before we went out I said that have three guys with less Talent ever gone out in front of more people is there any guilt associated with your success yeah there is I want to prove I'm not a lucky idiot so I took some risky decisions have you ever pondered that you might might have overdone it Richard Hammond has been seriously injured in a car crash they had called Mindy in they said I think we're losing him I had very bad post-traumatic Amnesia of like a one minute memory wow I have to consciously write memories down and work hard to recall them you worry about that I did the damage was done we should probably have a look find out are you scared to find out yeah I just want to start this episode with a message of thanks a thank you to everybody that Tunes in to listen to this podcast by doing so you've enabled me to live out my dream but also for many members of our team to live out their dreams too it's one of the greatest privileges I could never have dreamed of or imagined in my life to get to do this to get to learn from these people to get to have these conversations to get to interrogate them from a very selfish perspective trying to solve problems I have in my life so I feel like I owe you a huge thank you for being here and for listening to these episodes and for making this platform what it is can I ask you a favor I can't tell you how much you can change the course of this podcast the the course of the guests were able to invite to the show and to the course of everything that we do here just by doing one simple thing and that simple thing is hitting that subscribe button helps this channel more than I could ever explain the guests on this platform are incredible because so many of you have hit that button and I know when we think about what we want to do together over the next year on this show a lot of it is going to be fueled by the amount of you that are subscribed in that tune in this show every week so thank you let's keep doing this and I can't wait to see what this year brings for this show for us as a community and for this platform [Music] Richard [Music] can we start by you giving me your your context your earliest context where uh yep little fella born in Birmingham uh mum and dad I'm the eldest of Three Brothers um quite a close knit family my mum's dad worked in the car industry he was a coach Builder so he's trained as a cabinet maker working with wood then he went into coach building which is in the old days when cars had a steel chassis and then they'd have an ash usually wooden frame over the top so that's where he started because his cabinet making skills were relevant but then he stayed within the car industry and finished up working at Jensen so cars were always they were always in my imagination they weren't like littering the drive because you know we had modest means so we had a purple Marina Coupe as a best car um but I loved them and that that grew into an obsession yeah so schooled there until 15 and then we moved North as a family uh and I went to rip and grammar school up in the north and from there started working radio in 1988. that's a long time ago isn't it yes I wasn't alive back then yes thank you so much we've already just as I was coming in we mentioned that the fact that I talk regularly to like full-grown adults like important people you do lots of important stuff and there's oh yeah I love your show I used to watch it when I was a little kid yeah I've done it that long you've led a life that is a real anomaly in many respects you know you've done some unbelievable things that people would just dream of doing when when you when I think back in my own life I try and pinpoint the moments of influence whether it was a TV show I watched or something that happened For Better or For Worse like you said with your dad and his his um love for cars that made me end up living a life that was a little bit different when you think about those things and why you why you became an anomaly what are those anomalous influences see my favorite game is to look back and pretend they were all part of some great plan yeah and thread them all together but you can only do that in retrospect for me I guess um I always liked expression I wanted to be a painter or I wanted to draw really well I loved art at school I loved English I loved writing um but I loved photography when I was about 10 improvise a little dark room under the stairs and print my own black and white photographs so I loved all of that but I was very much things like that were for other people I think it was a Birmingham thing is I've always had to but brummies don't go wow your average brummy will never go wow they'll go that's no I mean my dedics could run like that only bigger it's just something we do we don't we don't profess to we don't do that and you kind of need to be able to do that to then think that's what I might pursue it's a key moment am I making this up as being a key moment I don't know it feels like it when I was eight something like that nine um my dad's parents lived in Western Superman so we'd go on holiday there which meant an endless drive from Birmingham yes before the motorway went all the way so um I wasn't alive yeah yeah that's gonna be a theme um we we went all the way down to Western Superman to see them and we were walking along the front there there's a low sea wall on the beach down here on my right and I saw there was a bit of a fuffle going on a bit later on me looked over the wall well a lot of people gathered around and some people holding things and in the middle it was Derek Griffiths presenter who was doing a piece of camera and there was a camera there and I remember thinking that's amazing he's been so animated and talking to that thing there's nobody there but he's talking to it he's engaging with it instead almost pulling a response out of it and I think that was I didn't leave that experience going that's it I've got to be a television presenter because that was for other people just as being a photographer was for other people or an artist but it was there in my heart that's when I thought I'd love to I bet that feels amazing what was for you if that was for other people what did you think was for you I don't know I guess it I I would never have imagined anything that I've done happening to me none of it um for me was just see I'm that bit older than you and possibly there's a generation that we're raised by people who were glad to have got through the war and for whom what they really wanted was just a quiet life with nobody trying to kill them or their parents or their loved ones so I wonder if there's Echoes of that and I think that was maybe still echoing around Birmingham that what you really wanted was just to make sure everything's okay just to look everything everybody's all right we can have family life and we can just progress without making a fuss sticking your head over the parapet because that brings risk um to avoid that don't so I I never would have dreamed I'm saying I was directionless had I asked you about 18 or 16 what are you going to be when you grow up what would you have replied do you think 16 out of replied I just want to write my moped um I'd have wanted to be an artist a great painter but had taken no meaningful steps towards it at all because again lacked confidence um yeah I was sort of that would only have happened if a miracle had occurred do you know what I mean if you have an option that you're not actually pursuing actively because you think that's not funny but I'll keep it in there admittedly what I'm saying it's like I was hoping to win the lottery but I wasn't doing the lottery but it it it it feels like that but by 18 I just said I want to be in radio and ultimately TV and that's what ends up happening right you go and study yeah well I'd sat at my o levels under a different examination board and a different syllabus from that under which I'd studied and then I I went into sixth form but it reached a point of entity when the teaching staff thought it might be better if I went somewhere else literally anywhere else just not there just don't be they chucked me out but not for anything heroic but that wasn't one of those yes I set fire to the janitor's car or something I just was annoying I was an irritant um and I wasn't focusing so they slung me out what do you mean like when you say annoying you mean oh God just winding the teachers up or something yeah trying to be funny um every compensatory measure that anybody who's diminutive in height has ever made I've done only discovered recently that one of my dearest friends Zog Ziegler whom I've known for 30 odd years um he's 20 years older than me in emails referring to me to other people he copied me into one by accident about 10 years ago he always calls me little Napoleon he looked a bit but he still does yeah I exhibited all of those traits I was just irritating honestly really annoying do you know why uh because I was conscious of being you know smaller than everybody else and I wanted to be a bigger noise in the room I wanted to sort of disrupt and do stuff but I didn't want to be naughty I had no I still hate being in trouble I hate being in trouble um it bothers me and it did then but I was just honestly I wouldn't have put up with me you know there's like a stereotype that that if you're smaller in stature that your you're you're really ins you're insecure that it becomes almost like a shame or an insecurity as a young man and then you kind of you act against that by exhibiting certain behaviors was that true for you was there ever like a shame of being smaller it was yeah I guess you don't really it's not something you crave although I've spoken to lots of tall people who often wish and and had a similarly difficult time as a child because you're always sticking out the crowd you don't always want to and you can't make yourself small um it genuinely doesn't trouble me now I mean the truth of the matter is often when I meet people for the first time and if they've seen me on the telly there's a moment and they're disappointed because they're expected to meet something that you'd hang on a Christmas tree or put on the mantelpiece but I'm actually what five seven ish so I'm fairly average really it's just that I consistently work with much taller people but it yeah it did drive me on as a kid and I do it's bullying I've never bleeded about it but it is and it it influenced me greatly yeah yeah it it I overcompensated I felt I had to it's almost like you take that as a kid I mean you take that into the room with you anything that makes you different whatever that is you take that in the room with you and it's kind of you have to deal with it and you have to deal with it you have to compensate for it be funnier or be quicker or be angrier or noisier or naughty you have to somehow compensate with this thing which is to do with I guess if you could bring that thing with you into a room and it was simply absorbed and it didn't matter then you could be the person behind all of that so yeah I think it did it's one of the reasons I'm a broadcaster now for sure really yeah bound to be must be must be I've often thought really if you're lucky enough it depends people seldom have careers now as broadcasters as I think of it because their personalities and that's a different game but I come from an era when it was a craft you know I I spent a long time learning about how to address an audience through radio you never pluralize the audience you talk to people one-on-one um all sorts of things and those craft skills have gone and they've gone from TV there is that a bad or a good thing I don't know if actually we're getting to see people genuinely as they are if we're celebrating interesting personalities rather than somebody who simply learned to craft maybe that's better but I I was pushed to do it I think in part by that and I've often said that the worst people to pursue it as in the worst people to deal with the trappings of success in the media are by definition the same ones who are the only ones driven enough to achieve it because they're compensating so amen that's why it can be damaging because only the man or woman who was so desperate for it will have hung on and endured sacrificing friends and time and spare time and sometimes dignity and whatever else in order to get there and they're therefore the least able to deal with it when whatever it was that they craved is given them but they'll be better off solving the craving removing the craving than feeding it that's my theory I said this to my girlfriend yesterday and he did bed at 1am yeah you said the point about how people that strive to have the admiration let's call it or the the success whatever the sort of external validation is maybe a broader way to kind of describe that are also the ones that once they get it will struggle the most to deal with it whether it's because of the the scrutiny that comes with it or the or the you know the power that comes with it or whatever that comes with it and so that's just my exact point that's exactly it yeah and we agree I think it's and it's not it's fairly obvious when you see it that way I'm not against all of that I'm not a you know we live in that world where people can project their personalities across all across the world um that doesn't trouble me overly even if it does trouble means occasionally I'll meet a young person a kid and they'll say oh yes great I love what you do I'd love to be famous and I'll always stop at that I always really why because you know it's it's a it's a byproduct of a fascinating and potentially rewarding job and it can be important it can be powerful even but the fame itself is just it just means it's embarrassing standing on a train on your own because everybody's staring at you that's me that's all it means I guess if you live in London and go out a lot it might mean you can get a restaurant table but you can only get that if you remember hi I'm kind of a big deal off the television can I ever tell you okay and then you feel even worse when you come were you aware that you were being driven by so that's some kind of like insecurity throughout that period or was it really in hindsight that you look back and go ah um was I aware yeah I think I was yeah I mean I learned to fight early on I learned to punch above my weight to make a noise to be brave or if there's some idiot on his bicycle trying to jump over some action man toys on a ramp it'll be me yeah I knew I knew that was I was a small kid just screaming Notice Me Notice Me notice me I think and and the problem there of course a lot of us don't we will have traits that aren't always the best but that are rooted in justifiable cause but if your job then rewards it if you are needily showing off my mummy stopped showing off sorry that's my childhood um but if you're then rewarded for it wait a minute your brain is sort of remapped a little bit to go oh so that isn't a bad thing I should pursue that because I literally am rewarded financially and people seem to like me so I'll continue doing it it's when my midlife crisis has lasted 20 years and it's still going on I'm quite enjoying it I am I cut you know maybe 10 20 episodes ago on this podcast I I started because I'd heard similar themes in my guests that they were being they were all Mis describing themselves as being dragged by an insecurity and I was I started to make this kind of distinction between being driven which is maybe for intrinsic reasons or whatever and then being dragged where there's some kind of Voyager trying to fill or insecurity you're trying to to mend or some validation you're seeking and you know you're either in the front of the car driving down the middle way or you're kind of on the end of it being dragged by this pursuit of like validation and how at some point in our lives we probably need to like take hold of the steering wheel and be conscious about the direction we're traveling in and not being dragged by the insecurity or the desire to be liked whatever it might be was there a point in your life where you're you're the thing driving you moved from being that that you know insecurity or that that pursuit to show off and the validation it creates to being a little bit more conscious because I sometimes worry in myself but also in the conversations I have that if we don't at some point realize what's driving us it might drive us to the wrong place it might drag us to the wrong place should I say um initially I don't spent that much time thinking about it like that because heck it was work if you're a freelancer in radio in 1988 89 you go where the job is and you live in whatever bed so you've got a living to do it because I love the job and let's not I didn't it wasn't it one long introspective Naval gazing party it was this is really cool I really enjoy it and in those days I'd arrive at a new radio station and um if I was lucky be given the radio station car which was often quite a new car which was uh and dispatched in that with a viewer tape recorder which is a reel to reel quarter inch tape tape recorder that to you is a steam train it's not like an iPod so no it's about 20 years before the iPod it is honestly it belongs in a museum but that's what we used so I'd be dispatched with that to go and do an interview with no mobile phone to hook up but when I got there I loved it I still love harvesting people's thoughts and ideas and and sharing them via any medium I mean look at what we live in now look at what you're doing what we can do what I do drivetribe that I now run that is about doing exactly that and it's almost your generation I guess and you know the agencies that you run and the work that you do you're that bit further than I am from as I'm still closer to still being amazed I used to have a fantasy when I was working radio to go and do interviews again with no mobile phone so you had to pick up a phone with a curly wire and make the appointment and you had to be on time because you couldn't just turn up and then oh I'll call you when I get there the window mobile phones it didn't exist and there was no internet to research where you're going so you all Sat Nav so you took a paper map navigated your way there and you did your interview you could link up live with the radio station but through like a radio mass that you had to put up um and then you'd go back and I used to fantasize about imagine if I could just go anywhere and do live broadcasting it's just and the other day we were having a meeting with the guys that work with me on Drive tribe and we were talking about so I'm not going to tell you because you're going to do it and you'll take it we've got a cracking idea for a little show we want to do on platform and it involves first of all Lucy one of the people in the team she's going to go off and do this thing and we can do it we can link live you think well what hmm maybe those of my Generations should keep hold of that amazement and just keep it going because it will be I mean to you that's of course you I'm still a bit Amazed by that is that good things are useful ah I'm gonna say yeah but I'm only saying yeah for romantic reasons because actually it makes no difference at all the fact is you can practically you can do what you can do so do it to good effect sitting there hopping up and down going what's amazing that we can do it probably doesn't help hmm what do you think better to be gratitude right there's a there's a level of gratitude in there which is a healthy feeling yes there is I'm grateful that we are able to do that I'm grateful that we live in a time when we can come up with an idea sitting in my barn having a meeting and then just do it hmm that's amazing and a younger generation or a generation that haven't been exposed to the change might not they just have an expectation that it happens so there's less gratitude involved in the Future made them all grow up like I did exactly with no mobile phones and just a hoop and a stick to play with do you I I do sometimes Ponder if um that world without the internet my analog world what would be a much more enjoyable world for the human being to live in and it kind of links somewhat back to what we were talking about earlier where if you think about the essence of what it is to be human I don't think we're supposed to be exposed to this much information and this much sort of Global Connection um in terms of like the bombardment of notifications and this constant stimulus which leaves you in that fight or flight state maybe the drive to do that is quintessentially human and it's one of the reasons we proliferated the way we have that spreading of gossip and sharing of information and sharing of um mutually agreed standards be that industry Showbiz gossip or religion or anything else but sharing those is what's enabled us to work together in huge numbers otherwise we would be in little little individual groups still and together so it's been key we have to have it it was inevitable I think it's run away a bit I think the critical nature of gossip and sharing all of that because we've developed this way of doing it but maybe it'll decrease in import maybe we'll need bigger spikes in it to actually grab her attention but I don't I don't think we can't condemn it because we've pursued it's what's come out of us we have all the options as well so we need to look at what it will do for us I think it'll water down it'll dilute I wonder if the brain has evolved at the same Pace as it well the BR I mean it can it is it is a limitlessly flexible sort of bucket of soup and electricity isn't it really I mean I dented mine crashing into the ground at 320 miles an hour stupid boy that was typical me I only did that because I'm a short bloke that is short bloke all over anybody want to drive this rocket power dragster me me will everybody be looking yeah I'll do it and then it crashed but I you know I did damage mine and there were all sorts of anomalies within its ways in which it didn't work as it should emotional responses were all over the place no big motor control issues but some um but it rewired it fixes and there's loads of instances of it doing that so if the brain can recover and literally physically reshapen and function post physical trauma then it can also we could evolve we could be evolving now will it be genetically encoded and passed down so will a new generation following on from you evolve will they carry pre-coded that information to deal with our Digital World well physiological changes no but then as human beings because we have to have the capacity you might be born a Wall Street billionaire um a fisherman in an Amazonian Village the same essential ingredients have to do that we have to have that Limitless flexibility so maybe that's why our brain will maybe it'll always retain that flexibility which means by definition it can't evolve in a distinctive route because that's narrowing options we're still born with this incredible capacity to be and do anything within a very broad range of things and we need to hang on to that I mean baby all a baby giraffe has to do is endure a six foot drop when it's born and be able to run a few minutes later and you're away that's it we have to do a lot of other stuff I wonder I I part of the reason I asked this question is because I'm trying to think about um a lot of the things we're seeing with mental health and how it's it appears that situational and environmental factors are causing of the modern world are causing the brain to struggle in many ways um at a fundamental level whether it's loneliness that's driving the brain to feel a sense of purposelessness or something or whether it's the overstimulation which is causing anxiety and the brain is struggling to cope with that um that's kind of why I was asking the question as to whether the brain is keeping up with the nature of the modern world because there seems to be a lot of symptoms that it isn't but there's only so many stimuli that can be received and registered via our various senses and organs into that lump in there there's only so many things that could I I think you might attribute magical qualities to an analog existence and you can see why we would because an analog existence has a degree of um of definition that couldn't be achieved digitally because you're always Limited whereas it's a bit like trying to explain science and the world using science trying to explain the universe using science it's only the langrification of it it's not it isn't absolute these aren't the facts they're aversion of facts that we can share between us and sharing and communicating is what we do it's what defines us so that's all it is it's a langification of that that is but it doesn't have the definition it can't go down to a fine enough it's it's it's still like trying to paint the Mona Lisa using Lego bricks it's not quite fine enough but I think a digital world is even less fine because it it's zeros and ones it's absolutely so yes in in what we do it's great it returns empirical data on whether or not something is being approved of if you're making a marketing film as opposed to sticking your finger in their own seeing which way the wind's blowing and are people looking at that poster outside the bus station yes but the poster outside the bus station in the analog world is has a far finer level of of of detail then I think you could do digitally but are you attribute are you saying that it's intrinsically bad that we're drifting towards a digital world and away from the analog because the analog contains something that could stimuli stimuli you can replicate we could honeycomb the entire world you could be put into a pod into which you could be given sufficient physical mental stimuli which isn't it chemicals um to maintain what is measurably a healthy human being would you be I don't know I guess I'm asserting that like humans clearly have some fundamental needs you know shelter connection um I was going to say psychological safety I'm not sure that's necessarily a human need but it's important and some of those things seem to be being Stripped Away by the nature of the world we live in today where you know in America when asked how many people have you got to turn to in a time of Crisis the answer used to be three then I think it's the mode modal answer or the medium answer is now zero Theresa May appointed the first loneliness star they think um loneliness is significantly worse than smoking 20 cigarettes a day reduces your life expectancy by 10 years and I wonder whether the that's almost like a human response to something that's been Stripped Away From The Way We Live Our Lives over the last whatever you know like living in four white walls alone is a single Bachelor ordering my food using a glass screen ordering like dating using a piece of glass stimulating myself potentially sexually using a piece of glass screen in my hand and then the processed food that I'm eating I'm just wondering and then look you know the constant stimulation of this dopamine hit from this glass screen as well in my hand that's keeping me awake up at night hurting my sleep and then keeping me in fight or flight because I'm nervous about something on this glass screen you know but if that's the answer what is the answer to that because we made it collectively as a species we have gone that route I mean I'm not sure we've gone that way well yeah I'm not saying we've gone that way we must continue doing that it might well be that disruptors need to put the hand up and saying are we sure yes I must say I I wanted to talk about the car because I believe that the car is sort of an expression of some of that because in that analog world which all right I'm from um you've got those needs so you need shelter I suppose warmth food stimulation supplies mate once you've got Beyond cave a car comes to represent all of it that's why it's important that's why it very quickly became a symbol because you've got shelter but what are you going to do staff to death and die of loneliness and boredom at the back of your cave now you need to leave it and get that that you need and something that can get you there first to the kill to the mate to the resources is powerful that's what the car became you're very passionate about the role of the car in society aren't you yes I am because because of what it represents uh which is everything other than shelter um yeah and here's me getting all poetic and romantic and dewey-eyed about the analog well because I think something that moves you physically corporally from one place to another that's powerful because I'm going there I'm taking my personal my son of the universe only exists for each of us in here so I'm taking therefore the universe with me to wherever it is I'm going to do whatever it is I'm going to do and that makes it impossibly exciting and for that reason I think it'll never go away Top Gear that really was a big thing come on yeah it was remarkable I'd done car shows I'd done radio for years um moved uh to the South to get a job at Renault in the Press office so I could get to know the editors of the car shows which I nearly did one of whom Pete Baker saves me and gave me a job on Granada men of Motors making little car shows um and then eventually after years and years and years of doing that I auditioned for the new Top Gear and got the job when you got that job did you what were your expectations of of the role well initially I cried an openly champagne in my way oh God yeah it was just to play it but I'd spend my whole life trying to do that so it had worked yeah yeah it was a huge moment um but we just thought we'll make a car show I remember the conversation in White City BBC h um with most of us was before James joined but the rest of us were all in place and weirdly some of the people used to work with now we were all in that room and we all said right these are the grand rules of Top Gear it's about the real world cars that people really buy no supercars no foreign travel we're only going to drive proper cars that people buy in this country and then didn't ask for it at all we realized that's not what people wanted not what we wanted to make we never made it with any science or calculation we just made the best car show we could and we were lucky things aligned the world wanted that show three misshapen blokes talking about their passion but I do think you'd have watched that Pottery Show I don't care about Pottery at all but watching people who are so into it you know the lovely chap cries when somebody does something it's like wow watching people engage with indulge or share their passion is incredibly compelling whether it's for making Pottery or baking or dancing it doesn't matter all cars doesn't matter I want to know more about why like why why did people love it you're touching on some psychological elements there but what is it what is it doing for the viewer at home in terms of the what is it giving them because it's not just cars oh no no it was it was God we were still a car show but well we always just say you don't have to be a partner to watch it we do that for you I think it was uh means of Escape but through a relatable portal because you could look at all of us three and let's be honest we're none of us Brad Pitt uh where none of us they're pretty good anything really uh you you could I think people would always find they'd identify with one of the three of us and by the little short squeaky primary one all right the war graceful long hair slightly fat one all the really big fat shouting which one am I which one and you'd fall into one of those camps and so that would sort of take you along with us on whatever eventually we were going on it's why we ended up making today the big trips because that's what people liked the proper Escape the one thing that troubles me though is about that that business about the subject being important if you're going to make a TV show a podcast piece of Internet content whatever about something the subject leads it has to it has to have that authenticity and integrity to it because we the audience will see when it doesn't and it's a tip cars for some reason are always if somebody's going to make a TV show a piece of Internet content about this all right do this thing about cars okay and then they don't get anybody who knows about cars involved in making it but you wouldn't do that if it was baking or dancing or cooking or sport or football I mean you wouldn't you'd you'd want that baked in because it's not so the wrong foot your consumers your listeners your viewers or cats them out or show off that you know more than they do but you can demonstrate yeah this is real this is this this is an authentic passion and we always kept that right at the Forefront it wasn't big but it was there even though what we were doing was ridiculous often how much of it was um scripted per se I was I was watching some some clips earlier on and I was there were such moments of Brilliance I was wondering is that like a producer in their ear telling them to crack that joke or to like say that to him or is that just them being comfortable enough to be really good bits are in the moment but I mean that's easy to guess isn't it you're I you'll have said some killer funny or incredibly moving things in the moment that's when we do our best work all of us so we would always devise a broad trajectory for the whole thing if we're making a special it's expensive so we can't just oh just get a mongolo and see if some stuff happens you've got to set something up but you know that's the minimum you're going to come back with um and you know the best bits will be the unplanned bits of course always was there a Moment In the Journey of Top Gear where you went where you thought yourself [ __ ] you know this is really well this is this is big oh well um surprise moment was day one Studio One series one standing in dance for halt so this is 2002 very early or maybe 2001 we filmed it I think I can't remember a long time ago uh standing on the stage and you know I'd always watch Top Gear because I loved cars um and I'd watch Jeremy on it he's older than me and he was already doing it and so as we were it was recording one they played in The Top Gear theme and my instant response from inside was oh top gears on brilliant oh I'm on it I better concentrate um but yeah there were key moments once when we were driving three um cut price supercars that we'd bought and we pulled into a petrol station so this is early days and everybody came out running to see us and to talk about the cars and they sort of got that oh what are you boys doing what are you up to now and that's when we realized oh hang on we've created something here it's got a momentum of its own which is great and it really did have a momentum on its own globally no idea why honestly none of us have none of us have it was just made the best show we could and next thing we know we're walking out in front of 30 000 people on stage in South Africa or Sydney or Hong Kong or all around the world during the live stages with with people that loved the show and we left why we went out in front of 60 000 people in the Polish National Stadium in Warsaw and just before we went out on stage I was in The Lads backstage and we have those earpieces and microphones so you can only hear each other otherwise too much noise and they're all wow there's music playing we're about to all drive out with some terrible stunts I usually hadn't listened to the briefing so there'd be a crash and just before when I said lads have three guys with less Talent ever gone out in front of more people with this it was just a serendipitous lining up of a need for a slightly anarchic approach uh I don't know but um it was just a Time okay we went when we fitted someone asked me on an interview I did earlier on it was on Acadia magazine they said is there any guilt associated with your success and it's quite a curious question um and it stunned me into a bit of a silence guilt how does that question sit with you is there any guilt same thing yeah there is it guilt his it's slightly more refined that it's almost a why me it's um yeah because I'm still the little Birmingham lad that being a photographer wasn't for me that's for other people I can't do that I can't actually be a photographer for real in the Big World and if somebody had said I could you know run various businesses and be a television presenter and no don't be daft it's not guilt it's been conscious of being the beneficiary of a great deal of luck when I was younger you go I went through a phase of yeah but I always you know luck often lands at two in the morning and you're the only one still in the radio station editing so that's well no it's just luck it really is because I got people who started in the same year as me 88. um and I'm I've got all the lack I took some serendipitous decisions I took some risky decisions you know I stepped away from my only other job with a company car back into broadcasting and took a massive pay cut I took a massive pay hit when I joined Top Gear um they were risks but um their only risk if they're freely made given that they were the product of whatever it was in me that was driving me to do what I was doing it was already going to happen so I'm lucky because not only did that opportunity come along but earlier in my life something had happened and equipped me with a need to gain whatever it was I stood a chance of gaining from taking that risk so I took that risk so it's still it's still luck it's still luck somebody else could have had that same opportunity but they hadn't been lucky enough on top of that to have been given that extra impetus to pursue it and take that risk by something that happened earlier in their lives so it's luck and I've just been very lucky that's a strange feeling though isn't it to think that you got to live this life because of a set of factors that you know you're born in a certain place in a certain way and then that created that impetus you describe and then the The Dominoes that fell in the decisions you chose to make because of all of those subsequent um experiences lands you with this incredible job with an incredible level of freedom it's quite quite can be quite as you say a why me like feeling you yeah is it guilt it kind of is it tastes slightly differently but it is sort of embarrassment is it slightly embarrassing is that why having God accidentally stepped into so many luck traps um I'm now you know running my my businesses and um because that's something I feel I can say no I did that that wasn't just lucky I made that happen by consciously taking Decisions by thinking about it maybe but then I'm lucky enough to have the opportunity to do that which I would never have had so it's all the whole experiment of my life has been skewed entirely by those key elements of luck at those key stages but we all have those we're lucky to be alive and that's easy to say that and it sounds tried and nonsensical but we are and for each one of us to experience our own individual perception of the universe to live this experience is so phenomenally lucky so many millions and billions of things have to not just have happened but continue happening for that to be possible that whether or not whilst experiencing this miracle of self-awareness in and of the universe we also get to go on the Telly driving about in a car or not it's kind of irrelevant at the end this having this conversation being aware of having loved ones being aware of yourself in the world being aware of the world all of that that's the amazing stuff the rest is just stuff and that's easy to say for me because I'm not that worried about my next phone bill it's a lot harder if you are I get that and I'm not I'm not not failing to be aware of that and right now for a lot of people whether or not they get to do a job on TV driving around in cars or whether or not they get to to look at the universe and talk about the idea of God and love existing or not with their mates is kind of less important than they've just had to have a prepaid meter fitted for their gas so the answer to that guilt embarrassment I think carry it with you maybe learn from it look up from it occasionally think how can I what can I kind of maybe better able to connect with people that just that would be useful what's your opinion of yourself you know when you what's the this is a really interesting question but um you said something which which kind of brought me to this question about this idea that maybe that building these businesses that you have now is another pursuit of like proving one is worthy I guess because because of uh sometimes I want to prove I'm not a lucky idiot um so what does that say that's why I said what's your opinion of yourself oh it's probably I guess for that reason as I've probably just revealed it's probably quite low isn't it um I'm very conscious of being very lucky I think uh to describe myself um what is the voice in Richard's head say Richard is who he is what he is he'd like to be more fair about her life that troubles me I think fairness and I'm aware it's desperately unfair um but also yeah as as with a lot of us I'm fairly um anxious inside need need to be loved same desperately um need to be reassured and one of the dangers and I I should imagine you'll find this given you know you're young and enjoying a stellar career in what our archetypal positions of power and authority so it's very likely that the world will look at you and think well he's the last one that needs a bit of reassurance and check on the shoulder and someone to say are you doing really well well done whereas actually you do um and I certainly find that that's something that I I need I need someone to acknowledge that um things are going well and you're taking advantage of whatever luck comes your way and you know I love building my businesses up because I love the fact that I'm conscious that's other people's jobs this is their story I'm helping build if they get working with me at 24 even if they only work with me for five years when they'll remember that forever like I remember the first radio stations I worked out this is their history we're taking a part in writing so I'm conscious of that but at the same time sometimes you just need someone to roughly hair and go well done and that would be nice yeah I'm asking you to rough my hair just because yeah slightly home it's I guess it's quite curious because someone would someone looking in might think well you know Richard's done so much in his life he must just be absolutely satisfied and he must be com feel completely complete and like there's nothing more else to prove or to but the the business point you made sounds like you feel like you have something to prove there yeah and I'm 53 I'll go another I'll go another go around in me yeah like to have see I don't know when you're thinking about time off if you've ever got time off coming out which I shouldn't imagine is very often and I know it isn't for me either but when it is I always think yeah God I'd love to just take a week and wake up every day and just go for a run and then maybe ride an old motorcycle and just really really Revel in that I don't immediately I am hideously addicted to work but that's hardly surprising given that work has also been self verification and it's it's the reward that I probably shouldn't have had so obviously I'm addicted to that there's a customer yeah yeah if you're not careful uh your relationships um you know my two daughters that I've made excuses over the years after sitting in a rainforest filming and to be a camera operator and maybe it's a bloke and he's just that his first children and he's away from home and he's upset and I've said yeah but you've got to remember you know you're their first example of how to lead a life you can see where this is going and you know you're going to come back with amazing Stories and they're going to look and think wow well if he can pursue his dreams and do that I can pursue mine and he'll Inspire them yeah but they also just were quite likely to be around that's a fact um yeah I've been able to provide well for my girls is in Willow um I wish I'd been there more of course I do but if I'd been there more we wouldn't have been where we were I can our life would be so different because I've worked sort of in and out of London for 25 years and we've lived deliberately out of London they've been raised in herefordshire that's their County that's where they belong my eldest I bumped into her in London this week she popped into the flat and she'd just been out in a pub in Fulham and pretty much everybody in there was from her County of Heritage and she knew them all and that's important that she can drift around London and know people or she can drift around her home county in the same for willow and that's that's important but then they've got a bigger view of the world but they still have a home to go to and always shall have a have you ever pondered that you might because I'm a workholic I've ever done it no no no yeah well basically I I'm definitely addicted to work and sometimes and like just still the pursuit of like building and creating things and you know success and I sometimes Ponder in certain moments it'll just catch me that this isn't what it's all about and that I'm like missing the point and going back to my point earlier I'm being dragged by a need for validation whereas I'm going to get to my deathbed be laying there and go so I just wish I'd just go and hang out on a mountain with my partner in Peru a little bit more and been there you know for my kids and my dog this but you didn't and there's no magic in this it's it's simply what happens is what happens and that's the way you've gone the way your collected experience if you imagine you are the sort of front of a tsunami of stuff and that's the way it's taken you that's the way it's taken you there's good and there's bad within it I don't um I never feel actual solid regret ever because that's the way it went I just don't feel it good and bad I'm not saying this is a good quality but I just don't feel it and not because I engineered out of myself I simply don't feel it because that's that's the way I've gone it also helps you sort of live now which is that's a huge part of the answer you could continue being driven As You Are by work for the rest of your life if you're able to be you know mindfully present and actually experience it then great all of that will come into it quick one one of our sponsors of this podcast blue jeans recently did some research and they found that almost a third of companies are still spending almost a quarter of a million a year on launching and hosting virtual and hybrid events this is obviously Bonkers with blue jeans new software called events and Studios you can host these professional world-class feeling events for a fraction of the cost so now going forward for all of my companies and for myself I think we did our last one in telegram not so long ago every event I will host will be hosted on Blue Jeans events and Studios and I've never seen a software tool that allows you to personalize and brand an interface and the interface itself with such ease that's the real thing about the the software I've done I think two events on Blue Jeans events and Studios the ease of not having to be an expert to create an unbelievable event if you've got an event coming up if you've got a virtual event coming up do me and yourself a favor and check out blue jeans events and Studios it's honestly incredible and I'd love to hear your responses if you do give it a try you know I never really usually pick the chocolate flavored heels my favorite are the banana flavor I love The Salted Caramel flavor but recently I think I in part blame Jack in my team who's obsessed with the chocolate flavor heals I've started drinking the chocolate flavor heels for the first time and I absolutely love them my life means that I sometimes disregard my diet and it's funny that's part of the reason why I've had a lot of guests on this podcast recently that talk about diet and health and those kinds of things because I am trying to make an active effort to be more healthy to lose a little bit of weight as well but to be more healthy and the role that he'll plays in my life is it means that in those moments where sometimes I might reach for you know junk Foods having an option that is nutritionally complete that is high in fiber that is incredibly high in protein that has all the vitamins and minerals that my body needs within Arm's Reach that I can consume on the go is where healing has been a game changer for me you talked about a crash earlier while you were filming Top Gear yeah not a very good driver me 36 years old 2006 I believe yeah um take me to that day well um we'd had a discussion in the office and I have told this story before and then some people you might be bored of it sorry um Andy Willman the editor had said he got this chance for this car to be driven and I'd gone into the office saying look I just want to go really fast what's the fastest we can go it's that dumb an idea they came up with this car and I went to drive and I turned up on the day um did numerous runs in the thing uh it was pretty basic and crude really quite fast especially when you hit the afterburner um jet propelled dragster I didn't have a speedo in the car because I knew I'd be chasing speeds and that would be dangerous so there was no Speedo I didn't know how fast I was going until after the event um you stopped it to stop it from high speed and to pull parachute chord to stop the parachute came out and stopped it uh and I'd done all the days runs and the director came over and said Rich we've got I've got permission for one last run oh brilliant right um we were happy with how it's gone but let's get one more bag of shots and um I was aware something had happened uh I all I recall is a sense of oh no um foot going towards a break and realized I was doing three I didn't know but I was doing 300 just shy 320 miles an hour so breaks I don't do anything um the car what had happened is the front tire delaminated and blown the card skewed right and was going off row but it was still doing 290 miles an hour as it started to roll I'd pull the lever for the parachute which is all that mattered to me when I finally you know weeks or months later became aware of what was happening I needed to know had I done that because I looked at my children and thought if I've nearly denied you a father for the rest of your lives because I'm an idiot and I did the wrong thing I wouldn't forgive myself but I did do the right thing so it just it was never going to stop it so then it went over and it rolled and as it went over I knew you know there's no roof just a roll bar I didn't know how fast I was going but I knew it was fast um and I just thought well I'm gonna die now but it wasn't again I'm on record of saying this and I don't want to go on about it because I get self-conscious I don't want anybody to think oh stop going on about that and I'm not but if you are interested I found it interesting that there was no fear associated with that there was no don't know there was genuinely it was answering a question that kind of at the back of my mind had always wondered and I think a lot of us do all of us when am I gonna die how why and it was like oh it's now that's the answer that's the next thing to do that was it and then I wasn't conscious again until then I was conscious apparently when they got to the car but I have no recollection because the damage was done brain decelerative sloshing forwards her frontal lobe bleed because just decelerating upside down using my head as a Break um it it isn't good for you have you heard the story about what was going on in your your family at that time well while you were unconscious in hospital who called Mindy your wife yeah Mindy was called um she was on the road she was called by uh Wellman they all spoke it was hard my daughters were Young and for them to grasp it was pretty pretty difficult um yeah it's disruptive it's horrible and it's hard in my memories are all over the place anyway because um I had very bad um post-traumatic amnesia for weeks like a one minute memory which many my wife always says I was the nicest I've ever been I was lovely apparently I was perfectly happy which does make me and has made me think often since that you know I've got a friend who's you know we all have friends perhaps or ourselves whose parents are through whatever degenerative form of of illness losing memories um and I always say to him is she happy yeah fine if I go to see them yes you'll come into the pub to see me three or four times and he's equally happy each time that's all right doesn't matter um and I was perfectly happy reading the same newspaper every single day several times a day I just it was by my bed I just pick it up and oh brilliant I'll sit down and read it put it down minute later gone until Mindy took it away because she was sick of seeing me read it but it was it was more distressing and really the message there is yeah as if it's if somebody is in that confused state of whatever variety of whatever reason if they're happy they're happy then you're all you've got to do is cope to support them in their happiness it doesn't matter if they can't remember who you are what anything is if they're happy they're happy and that's that and I was when you're in that coma I I watched the video you produced about your um incredibly powerful video about your morphine dream and uh the Crooked Tree on the hill is that is that true that there was a morphine you you yeah I was in a as we held in coma because brain was expanding post-crash so it was they were holding me in coma but it was looking very very bad and um they had called Mindy in um and they said I think we we're losing him that he could do she said is there anything I can do not really try anything can I shout yeah so she roared and shouted at me don't you dead I really quite sweary and cross why did you do that because she was crossed she didn't want me to die I think there's lots of people who've done that I think I'd do that but when all else is tried and failed if somebody is lying there yeah last resort don't you dare because you know she wanted me around I think we'd all do that it's not just a movie trope you can you can you are calling to somebody and I think we know in our heart of hearts we do have a great deal of Independence in terms of what happens to us our mind is a powerful thing um mind and body are one Chiropractic friend of mine chiropractor he'll kill me with that osteopath a friend of mine Steve sorry Steve um obviously about very well read man and we were talking about mind and body as one um and about you know bringing I was I said something about bringing mind and body to work together and all together and he said well yeah well it is all one because he's never been apart oh yeah your body and mind have never existed separately they've only ever existed as one and one needs the other and compliments and one is the other which is why if in that coma State and it's only an altered state of consciousness I'm Not Dead um I picked up on the emotion from Mindy the anger and thought as a dream the dream was honestly all going to be in trouble now it's not funny anymore it's a very distinctive flavor of you know when you're feeling you're being a bit naughty and you're being cheeky you're getting and then you're like oh no I really am in trouble and that's when she was really roaring and shouting and yes her mind can do an awful lot with our bodies there's enough evidence of that your mind took you to your favorite place which gives me immense comfort because it will do that eventually anyway I know that's where I'll go and given that at the moment of dying of the body shutting down of it stopping to do all the things that it does you're no longer tired by all those by time not biological rhythms lunar rhythms none of those matter you're not beholden to them anymore which is a kind of Eternity so if my last thought I'd been walking around that tree in I was up there uh two weeks ago District yeah went to the same tree um yeah my mind takes me around there and that thought Echoes form of Eternity as far as I'm concerned and really the universe only exists as far as I'm concerned or you're concerned it's only your perception of it and if that last moment is no longer constrained by worrying about Heartbeats or cycling of the seasons it's kind of an eternity isn't it and I wouldn't mind hanging around by that tree forever what was happening in that dream so you were you were in a coma and you have the sort of a morphine induced dream where you're walking up a hill yeah I was walking up the hill towards a tree and I was grew increasingly conscious that oh I'm going to be in trouble for carrying on no no I'm going to carry I just want to press on and then as I reach the tree it was a very clear oh no I really am going to be in trouble I better go back and that's the point um I just related that story as a unit to Minden it was very clear when I was brought out of coma shortly after and that's when it happened I mean it could be a story I don't forget your brain fills in things after the fact a sense of recollection is all you need for something to be in the past it doesn't have to actually be in the past but I've I've retained I've I've gained immense comfort from it I find it very comforting and warming to think so I'll continue to think it why is it comforting and warming to think cars um I think the question of what happens since we we are aware of our own mortality we're aware of the world and we're aware that it's quite nice being here to be aware of it um and if that's one possible resolution one possible that might be where it goes that's all right by me it's not the not the first time um you had a car crash well no no the last yeah I've read a lot yes I went off a hill in Switzerland yeah that was just again idiocy failed to break at the Finish Line went off I did think I was dying on that one after that first major crash the one where you were going 300 or 319 odd miles an hour um did your risk appetite change um kind of no because it was always assessed as risk I knew there was risk and we had done everything we could mitigate against that the air ambulance came I was saved um no it has done more laterally but that's because I'm getting older I think um no it didn't really radically change it but you came remarkably close to your two young girls not having a father does and and getting close to that reality must leave some kind of perspective change or some kind of it would certainly make me think about the prospect um and maybe start planning differently or possibly did that but then getting older does that passing 40 passing 50 does that it's in line with everything else that's ever happened in my life it doesn't really stand out massively it did for a while but it doesn't stand out as a particularly that's or hang everything on that because there's also passing 40 there's there's all those other Milestones that we all have and processes that we go through and subtle and not so subtle shifts in our priorities needs that happens it's just that's just woven into the fabric of my life and it's just one couple of stitches in it after the crash um you experienced depression yeah I mean I was told Mindy was told by the doctors that a frontal lobe brain injury would possibly lead to me having a greater propensity for Obsession compulsion depression paranoia Mindy left a pause my wife and just he didn't meet him before the Christ which is quite funny to me it's quite a good line um yeah I think I did suffer a bit I'd suffered all of those things to a degree yeah in so much as I became aware of them as a thing because I could feel them from the inside and see through them to the outside so yeah I was aware of them all of those things Obsession compulsion paranoia yeah depression yeah what was what were the symptoms of that that made you realize that it was a reality for you um how are you different or what did you feel some of them were really weird moments like and I still get an echo of it I remember having been institutionalized for a long time in hospitals and and actually in recovery when I thought I was free I was I was still being monitored and I was still being carefully guided but when I was really free I would have I'd be coming into London to do something and I could open the Wardrobe door and just look at all the shirts and just trying to work out oh it was too much Choice was a problem I found Choice really difficult for quite a long time but also I'm feeling your emotions derailed or interfered with as a result of what is only a neurochemical imbalance that's all we're talking about is chemicals and electricity I was walking across my drive of my house and I felt this sudden dwelling upsurge of love in my chest what's that this is not that long out of oh still on the road to recovery I suppose and eventually identified I'd walk past my old Land Rover which I do love but only because I quite like it it's an Orlando but it just triggered this absolutely I thought blimey um it made me think and if emotions can be that profoundly affected by what was just a mix-up of chemicals and electricity in my head then I am more aware of I don't listen to my emotions too closely if I'm very very tired or if I've had a big night out with the boys the night before if I've drunk red wine I do not tune in to see what I think about anything because it's irrelevant for a day um those are the rules I've been quite lucky for that reason that I've had that slightly more objective look at my own self on the instructional cell phone myself on that route to recovery what was was their hottest day well you look back and go that was the the most challenging for myself in Mindy and other alerts anger was there was I was angry for a while really massive the anger is a problem in people recovering from brain injury the weirdest thing though I've chatted to so many people who've recovered from acquired brain injury acquired in so many different ways from being shot to falling off a ladder to a car crash whatever um and the similarities are astonishing in the road to recovery really are the confusions the weaknesses the slight it's not guilt I mean I wanted a t-shirt on the front said I'm okay stop asking and on the back that said I'm still poorly you know because you it's it's if you run for a bus for a while since you ran for a bus but if one were to run for a bus and you twist your ankle and you sort of carry on running on the I'm all right it's a bit like that with what I'd done but of course what I'd injured was it was me where I am and how I see where I am there's a horrible circularity to that type of injuring Alpha I had a close friend who again was similarly injured falling off a horse because he's an idiot um and again massive similarities they're a more different man you couldn't imagine he has dignity status gravitas great family everything I'm not but his experience of recovery very very similar are there any remnants of the accident in in terms of injuries or probably but there's probably remnants of everything that's happened to you in your life and everything's happened to me and mine are you aware of any is Mindy aware of any no um I worry I do worry about my memory because it's not brilliant my working memory is very large my sort of processing memory in the moment so I can still read a page of script and deliver it but my longer term not brilliant I have to consciously write memories down and work hard to recall them sometimes now that might be because I'm 50. it might be a bit or 53 might be because I'm working a lot and I'm tired it might be the onset of something else do you worry about that yeah I do probably have a look find out probably should um are you scared to find out yeah yeah because you know it was a bleed on the front it could mean there's an increased risk I don't know I need to find out and so I've done I'm just I have been too scared to do it but I do need to I need to um I need to do it really on the way here I had to stop off um for a medical when you're doing a production you'll know you have to have a medical which always has been involved in any accidents I can have another piece of paper please I'm still going um very nice doctor and at the end I said yeah I should definitely um I need to put myself in one of those midlife mots to see if everything's okay and I wanted to say and to check there's nothing going awry up here but I just I'm chickened out didn't bad news I probably need an MRI scan but at 53 you know your memory does start to get a bit they call it lost key syndrome the doctors did when I first came home from brain injury and they have it with a lot of patience because you know they would lose their keys and go into an absolute flat tailspin Panic oh no I've lost my keys it's right now you've just lost your keys it happens I am quite forgetful I'm generally not paying attention generally thinking about something else the next thing and therefore I do drop the ball I forget stuff I lose stuff I forget keys but that's just that's just me that's not a function of something going wrong show him isn't it such a peculiar thing that humans will avoid finding out something if they think there's potentially bad news on the end of it I was reading some I think some crazy study I was reading about over Christmas when I was writing um about how if someone is diagnosed with breast cancer at work um and they're in close proximity to you you're less likely to go and get a checkup really yeah which is counter to what we would imagine was that you would assume but it's this avoidance of discomfort the psychological discomfort associate with finding out bad news and I am I had a procrastination expert on the podcast Once Upon a Time and he said whenever you're procrastinating on something it's because there's some sort of psychological discomfort associated with the activity an essay you don't feel competent about so you end up just doing the dishes all day or whatever it might be so when you're procrastinating you've got to ask yourself that question what is the psychological discomfort here that I'm trying to avoid so I'm asking you Richard what is the psychological discomfort you're trying to avoid and why they're quite simply facing something I wouldn't want to face it's my own Doom it's all that it's um I would find it very difficult to talk to my family and say right this is what's coming I know I'd be all right as I've said if you in a confused state it doesn't bother you but I'd feel bad putting that on them yeah I want them to have a future full of of Hope and Clarity and energy and vigor and potential and fun and I don't want to interrupt that That's Heavy yeah it's interesting you know this conversation about like health anxiety um I think it's one worth having and trying to get to a solution on because whether it's that or whether it's a lump I feel somewhere or whether it's a testicle that's a bit of a strange shape or whatever it might be that we do a lot of us live with this health anxiety of like if I just ignore it then uh it's not not a thing but then obviously ignoring it with many ailments causes it to measure things yeah but it's not surprising that we don't want to face it surely not it's it's I mean logic requires a procrastination expert who I did hear and I have heard him on on the radio as well and I always laugh about whether it turns out obviously um the science of procrastination but I don't think it requires that to realize of course we don't want to know we're aware of ourselves we're aware of the fact that we're aware of the world and we enjoy that process daffodils doesn't have to stand around worrying about being a daffodil it just is a daffodil I think as you get older you can make that process easier I do find you know practicing a bit of mindfulness or thinking about things asking about things talking about things can make it easier and you don't have to imagine a world without you in because you won't be in it so you are only in your world for as long as you're in it and that's eternity as far as you're concerned have you spoken to Mindy about that anxiety yeah I've got any health yeah so it's not an elephant in the room no no no and she's pushed you to go get checked doesn't you yeah probably should yeah yeah I will if anything it does demonstrate that we are much more emotional and a lot less logical than we think we are you know because the logical decision be I have a lump I should go get it checked but yes humans tend to go I mean they're often just Google it and convince themselves they have something even worse or they just avoid avoid I mean you don't want to show weakness and that again it's perfectly normal but my well both my daughters and my wife they're all into horses but my youngest daughter Willow our horse was was unwell and she pointed she pointed out to me that they have evolved to be incredibly good at masking pain and discomfort because they're a herd animal if they're not in the herd they die so they need to hide it they need yeah I'm watching one of the lads here I am I'm fine yeah I run with you over there and they will do because that's her only chance of survival at the moment that's oh I'm feeling a bit crooked so I might stay here I'm not saying we're horses no but it's a great analogy and one I think I can relate to you know being a CEO and always being the leader yeah you've got to you've got to be I'm fine I'm fine yeah what have you masked oh god um insecurity not being sure of the way forwards also simply tiredness but I quite enjoy that I enjoy being up first dumb but I like it if I've got people if we are all away with work and we're all staying together I like to be up first go for a run partly to signal to myself Rich you're more important than all of this and that's important and partly to signal to them that no Young don't worry I got this I've not only got this I've got this before I've got this so we'll be fine what um like that injured horse analogy is there anything that you've masked that you've masked because you'd think it would be a weakness I know I certainly have I reflect on it especially in my career when I was younger when I was struggling I would not I wouldn't tell a person because I did couldn't believe that a CEO and a man could possibly um Express that so but that's different now surely I think it is far easier I mean I think you know a patriarchal society and all the stereotypes and tropes contained within it I've done just as much damage to men in many ways different damage but that inability to share that inability to show I think that has changed or is changing although I have to be very carefully because I live in the frightly nice middle class bubble and I've fallen foul in this before because I live in a very happy world where there is no in my little world there is no racism homophobia sexism bullying it's nice and then it's easy to forget and then you say things based on that and then you look at the broader world and realize oh hang on a minute that really isn't doing much for the situation of somebody living here or coping with that so but I think on the whole it's easier now to share things was there a point where you you've you can recall opening up and the and the positive consequence of opening up in a way that you maybe haven't before because I can think of times where for the first time ever I've just said to my partner look I gotta tell you something this is how I'm feeling about this and old Steve never would have done that he would have been too too much of a tough guy he would have seen it as just a tremendous weakness I I can't remember when that happens I know I mean I'm off up to the Lake District this weekend and I will see Les my oldest mate is a Shepherd up there an AED who runs the bridge and my two brothers are coming with me and we're gonna have a sort of supper on them Saturday evening and we're gonna cook and it is the most natural thing in the world for that's five four very disparate people with very disparate jobs as a head teacher stock broker a television presenter businessman a man running a hotel and a shepherd but we will will share things very happily and it feels the most natural thing in the world it doesn't feel like oh no let's be really serious and let's share our animals feelings and let's be supportive and not now we will do is just and it can be knock about it doesn't have to be artificially gentle and and all on a bed of cotton wool we can still take the piss we can still have a laugh but we are doing it with love we are we need that yeah oh yeah yeah very definitely men especially men more so because they're useless at it and realizing that these things have value and it's okay and it doesn't mean you have to turn into something you don't want to turn into or change you as a person I have a really rugged chats with oh my mates from forces often soldiers are pretty good at it nowadays ex-military yeah fess up to how you feel why not nothing to be ashamed of you're beautiful young daughters Isabel and Willow hmm they turned to you and they say Dad what what um what advice would you give me on living a a full content happy life all right they just asked me for money I would I would say um I've got a beautiful picture here that I found oh that is them on the Internet bless them that's after doing some show rather yeah that is them I would say well they already are in a way they make wise decisions they're clever Willow had got into the youngest she'd got into a couple of good universities to do psychology she loved it she's interested in it she's bright but both are um but she's got a bit quiet about it we said what's up he said well I'll do the psychology but we know the only thing I've really been passionate about is horses and Matt is equestrian and I don't want to get five years from now and think oh I could have done it I said no you're absolutely right and if there's one piece of luck you need to take advantage of it so I'm not I can afford to look after you for a bit longer so if you want to go and explore it and then in five years time you'll be able to say yeah I did it or I did it and failed that's better than not so they're already thinking quite wisely about their Futures what does that group that picture mean to you in terms of the people in it um they're the most important people in my world but I've been taken away I've taken myself away from them too much over the years in order to support them but actually the support they needed sometimes was me being there and that's the hardest thing and I can't undo that and there's me saying I have no regrets um I regrets are funny I don't feel it as a real pain I wish I could go back and change it because I know I can't so I simply don't feel it in that way but I do wish I'd found a way of being there with and for them more just as me rather than as me being away in a jungle but on a glacier earning lots of money and sending it home and Mindy yeah I'll include Mindy in that they all reach out to me when I go home yeah but they're the reason you know the reason I do it and that is the truth you've been through a lot with Mindy a lot she's been through a lot with me poor thing we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest asks a question for the next guest not knowing who they're leaving it for the question that's been left for you is what is the single greatest piece of advice that you have ever been given oh um single greatest piece of advice I've ever been given and I've known some really wise people Tim Jackson who is my boss at Renault we lost him last year absolutely tremendous man and he he would have given me lots of advice because he was I mean it was to it was to Tim Jackson actually that I'd I'd broken out of radio because I was starving to death and realized I was never going to get to make Motoring TV shows based in a bed set somewhere in the north I needed to get down to where the work was so I got a job at Renault UK in the Press office and my boss there was Tim Jackson he was a PR director and just the loveliest man he only gave me the job because during the interview he'd been he realized I was wearing a pair of shoes I had buckles and laces and he'd draw them throughout the interview he said to his secret look at that I think we're giving the job he told me to to follow it it sounds really cheesy and I don't wanna I don't want to dress it up and follow my heart but I knew I resigned twice because I got the job for a bit of TV work uh I actually did I filmed the review of my company car sent off to Pete Baker and he said yeah okay well I can't promise you a lot of work but I'll give you some so I had to leave Renault so I went back to Tim and said Tim I'm going and tears in my eyes when I said it we were both heartbroken because we I really enjoyed working with them and in fact I went back in end of that week and said no I can't go I'm staying but then I went back in on the Monday and said no I am going and he absolutely said you've got to go with it you have to follow it while you can and I think that applies to everything and anything because you won't always be able to and maybe that's maybe that that's what it distills down to if you're thinking should I do this what can you do that at this and might there come a time when you can't in which case you should and that's sort of what camera can have what I had with that quite teary conversation over an egg sandwich one morning with Tim Jackson 20 odd years ago Richard thank you so much thank you to meet you um yeah right thank you no but it's you're incredible for so many reasons not least because because of your success and everything but really you're a remarkable Communicator some someone I've really learned a lot from in that department communication telling stories and keeping someone engaged through vivid language and and your sort of tonal expression it's really remarkable and you've lived a life which is incredibly inspiring so thank you so much for the inspiration it means a a huge honor to meet you today and have the opportunity to have this conversation with you I was tremendously excited and you've over delivered and then some in terms of everything I was hoping this conversation could be so thank you thank you for your kind words and I enjoyed it and I look forward to seeing the next one thank you foreign [Music] you got to the end of this podcast whenever someone gets to the end of this podcast I feel like I owe them a greater debt of gratitude because that means you listen to the whole thing and hopefully that suggests that you enjoyed it if you are at the end and you enjoyed this podcast could you do me a little bit of a favor and hit that subscribe button that's one of the clearest indicators we have that this episode was a good episode and we look at that on all of the episodes to see which episodes generated the most subscribers thank you so much and I'll see you again next time