Rich Dad Poor Dad Author Robert Kiyosaki on Attaining and Keeping Wealth

Everybody, welcome to Impact Theory. Today's guest is Robert Kiyosaki. He's a wildly successful entrepreneur and the best-selling author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad, the top-selling personal finance book of all time. He's written many books on the subject of finance and proven through his own real-world investments that his methods work, helping to make him one of the most sought-after public speakers in the world. Rounding out what is truly an insane resume, he was also a gunship pilot during the Vietnam War and was awarded with the Air Medal in 1969. And now today, despite having achieved a very uncommon level of success long after most people his age have retired, he continues to pour himself into helping the world become more financially literate. Robert, thank you so much for joining me today. Oh, no, it's my pleasure. Thank you and congratulations on all your success. Thank you, man. I really appreciate that. And right now, um traditionally, I haven't had a lot of people on the show that talk about finance, um but in this time, I think it's incredibly important to be able to help people navigate what is certainly going to be um the most devastating financial time in any of our lifetimes for sure. And your insights um are very intriguing. You certainly aren't afraid to push back on what you think is BS. You're not afraid to just say it the way that you see it. Um I'd love to get a sense of what you think are the the like fundamentals of how people should be think like the average person should be thinking right now um during this crazy time. Well, first of all, there's no average people, you know, we're all we all have our unique skills and traits and I I'm not one of those one-size-fits-all person. And like when I when I listen to so-called financial planners, um you know, they say uh just you know, just give your money to them and they'll invest in a well-diversified portfolio, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and ETFs. And for the average person, that's not bad advice. I don't do that stuff. So, I think that's kind of to understand is because I don't have any stocks, bonds, mutual funds, or ETFs. I don't touch the stuff. But, on the other side of it is I don't need to have that stuff. You know what I mean? I don't I don't Walk me through the mechanisms. Why is it that um for the quote-unquote average person, that's a reasonable play, um but why do you not touch it? Well, it's because you know, I I I flew gunships in Vietnam. Now, you want to fly gunships in Vietnam, you have some prep work to do. You know, I I I was I was talking to this school teacher. I didn't do well in school. You can tell I'm a C student. And uh you know, I have a bachelor of science degree, which stands for BS. And all that's [laughter] And the best thing about that BS, it allowed me to be a you know, a Marine lieutenant instead of a gun instead of a machine Marine gunner. I could fly the gunship. And that was a qualify You know what I mean? That's what a college degree did. So, it was worth it from that point of view. And so, that talking to this one guy, he says, "Well, I have a private pilot's license." Okay. And then, you know, how those guys know It's called the Big Dog. He was like, "Big Dog, you know me. I got a private pilot's license." I didn't tell him. I said, "I don't even have a license." But, I have air medals. He didn't know what an air medal was. You know, an air medal just meant how many how many round trips did you take into combat? Mhm. And you came back alive. That's That's all it means. Doesn't mean I was a hero or anything, cuz I wasn't. You know, we're just happy to bring my crew back alive. That's all we cared about. But, to get to that level of flying is the same as investing. And I that's what I really learned is the dedication not to be to be the best pilot, but be the best that I could be. And then if I'm not the best that I can be, people die. And a lot of people it's okay to be average. If you know what I mean. But when you get into that situation when you're going in and out of those combat zones, I went down two, three times and uh but I wouldn't be back today if I hadn't practiced to be the best. And so when I go into the world of money and investing, that's I'm still not you know, I'm not Zuckerberg or those guys. But you still have to be the best you want to you can be. And that's how I can be you know, investing in the stock market with diversified stock of stocks bought which are the ETFs. If you're not willing to be the best that you can be, that's the best for you. You're an average person. Nothing wrong with being average. But there's something inside each of us that wants to be the best at something. And when I was reading your uh background, I think that's what you're pushing people asking people what do you want to be the best at? And I I just love the Marine Corps. I hated it when I was in it. I tell you what, they're not polite. But they they demanded the best of [clears throat] So today I carry those traits. I went to military school and then I went to, you know, five years in the Marine Corps and flying and all this. So when I hang out with my friends, my friends also want to be the best. And so in some of my books and things I said, "Look at the five people you spend time with." You know, if they're not striving to be the best, that's who you are, too. You know, I find your background in the military really compelling and very interesting. Um you're you're talking about we maybe use different words, but it's possible that we're sort of saying the same thing, which is my obsession right now for people is skill acquisition. So, when you you talk about getting shot down, um that to me feels like the moment that we're living through right now. Something so unexpected and so, quite frankly, dangerous has happened, and now it becomes a question of who's going to stay clear-headed, who's not going to panic. I think panic is the worst enemy that anybody could have right now. So, getting control of your mind and then being able to perform. So, I want to talk about when you talk about you it took a lot of preparation, and you prepared to be the best. Like really truly in in terms of Vietnam and the military, what did that look like? What did preparation and becoming the best um take? Well, I got I got my bachelor of science degree. I had a high I was at high-paying jobs. High-paying jobs not that big a deal to me. So, my first job was about 120,000 a year back in the '60s. That's quite a bit of money. before you went to Vietnam? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then um so, making money has never been an issue. Not me high-paying job as an employee. So, that's kind of you know, it wasn't challenging. So, I want the challenge. So, the Vietnam War was on when I graduated, and they drafted my kid brother, and I was draft exempt because I I was an employee of Standard Oil of California driving oil tankers for them. Up and down the California coast. So, um I was sick. 22 years old, high-paying job, career. I worked 7 months on, 5 months off, 120K a year. Not much money today, but back then '69 was a lot of money. For sure. So, I my conscience gets to me, and I think that's really what you're I think what I what I read about you is you're asking for their souls. Where is your soul? Where is your spirit? What do you mean by that? Because that's that's not that's not where I'm headed now, but I'm very intrigued. So, what do you mean? Where's Where is your guts? Where is your spirit, man? If people ain't I you know, I've been in shock. I've lost millions. I've done all that. What's your spirit that carries you out? And you know, it's horrifying. You know, when I when I I I never got shot down, but I lost my engines several times. Because our aircraft were so tired and we were flying so hard, you know. So, every time my engine quit, I had already practiced crashing every single day in a flight school. So, when it quit, it was like just flight school. Just dropped it. And most people avoid the terror of life. And so, they try and live in this little little bandwidth called comfort. I want to be comfortable. I want to be happy. I just want a safe, secure job. I want security and all that. And And so, when I stepped when I went to apply for the Marine Corps, I had to step it up. Because I was bandwidth 120k a year, 22 years old, career set. You know, it was the most horrifying feeling. Why did you apply? Because I wanted the next adventure. So, you're 22, you're making good money, you see your brother get drafted, and unlike most people who are sort of running in the opposite direction, you actively pursued getting into the military. So, I practiced what I'm terrified of. And when I meet the average wimp out there, I am a Marine. I don't hang out with wimps. And I said it earlier today, "Who are your five best friends?" And that's kind of I selected my new bunch of friends. And when I meet most people, most men and women, I think today the women are tougher than the men. I hate to say that. But, you know, they I meet a lot of guys that they just don't have it. They have it, but they don't call on it. And so, that's what I was talking, you want to find your soul. Where is your soul? You know, what will sit up? You know, it's like when I was when I each time I was going down, I wasn't flying for me. I was flying for my two young gunners, you know, the 19-year-old boys, really, with kids already. If I didn't do with the best job possible taking that aircraft into the ocean, the their their kids were fatherless. And I when I meet people who don't have it in life, they don't really have that soul in them. They they the soul is there, don't get me wrong. It's there, but you don't need it yet. So, today we're we're in this I think we're going to a major depression. I hate to say that, but are you prepared for it? I'm prepared for it. You know, I I wrote a book called Rich Dad's Prophecy. And I said the biggest stock market history was coming in 2016. So, the biggest crash in world history came in March 2020. We're going into depression, you know, hope not. But, I would say there's a 60% chance we're in a depression. Now, for somebody with a soul and a spirit, it's the greatest opportunity in history. You know, the world's changing. I'm going I'm going to get out of this thing. I want to go back to that. Um I find it the the notion of practicing what terrifies you to be incredibly powerful. I don't know that a lot of people know how to translate that though into real life, like right now today. Um so, let's say somebody just lost their job, they don't have savings, they're in panic mode. How do they begin to practice in this time to build up the resilience to become antifragile? What does that look like? Well, let me ask you this, okay? If you want to be a plumber, right? You have to have skills. So, you say, "Well, I want to be a plumber." Well, I don't I I I don't have the skills. Well, you can't be a plumber. Well, an entrepreneur has a different set of skills than an employee. The reason I run companies, the reason I'm an entrepreneur is I have different skills than they teach you at school. You know, I don't like job security. You know, security is the worst word in the world for me. You know, it's same as when I had to learn to fly, I had to learn to fly without an engine. You can't fly without an engine, you shouldn't be a pilot. You talk a lot about the the ability to go through a metamorphosis and change. Have you always been sort of a um tough ass or did you Did something change you in your teens or early 20s? You have to have skills. If you're No, my father, poor dad, was a PhD. He had no entrepreneurial skills. His whole life was based around fear, the fear of failing. He needed job security. He could never make it as an entrepreneur. Never. Not with that spirit. But can you change your spirit? That's my question. Yes, of course you can. It's your choice of friends. Every day you're making that choice. So, the thing that I When I When I was still in the Marine Corps flying as I I came back from Vietnam, went to a station in Hawaii for my last year. At that point, my poor dad, you know, says to me, "All your friends are going to fly for the airlines." So, Hawaiian Airlines was They needed pilots bad, you know, not like today. But most of my friends got to fly for United. And so, my poor dad says, "Why don't you fly for United?" I said something inside me said, "That's too easy. I can already fly." You know, I had already had 1,000 hours of flying in combat. So, to go fly a 747 not that challenging to me. But you said, "But you're making 500,000 a year." I said, "That's chump change." You see, my expectations of self are a lot more than 500K a year. This isn't the This is in the 70s and 80s. I said, "I want a bigger challenge than that." Now, this is an interesting thing. I just finished my latest book, Who Stole My Pension? My friends who flew flew for United, their pension was stolen. So, they're all host. But, they chose security. They chose security. And what I did, instead of going to work for United, my rich dad, my best friend's father, said, "You know, you're not an entrepreneur." So, but I said, he says, "Cuz you can't sell. You're you're too shy." And he was just giving me a solid you know hardly any evaluation. You know, he said to me, my rich dad says, "Robert, how's your sex life?" I said, "I don't know. I can't get a date." He says, "Cuz you can't sell." You know, so [laughter] He says, "You can't handle rejection. You're not going to make it as an entrepreneur. Entrepreneurs, it's a thousand rejections to one." And he says, "You better go get rejected pretty quickly." So, instead of looking for a job at United Airlines, and Hawaiian was hiring also. I I'll forget that. But, anyway, uh I got a job with Xerox because they had sales training. And then for 2 years, I was the worst salesman they'd ever had. I was going to get fired from Xerox. And so, I went to my rich dad, and I said to him, I said, "Why what's wrong?" He says, "How many sales calls you make a day?" I said, "On a good day, three." He says, "That's why you're not successful. Same formula." He says, "You have to fail more." He says, "You got to step up your failure rate." So, I found a nonprofit, and at night, after I was working at Xerox, I would go to the phone bank up the street from where I was working in Honolulu. And I had a my had a goal. I had to fail 35 times that night. So, I just failed 35 times. Now, interesting thing happened. My numbers at Xerox went up. You see, I was handling that fear. I was I was handling the wimp in me, the coward. And most people don't want to go through the wimp. And that's why I don't really have I don't have much time for them. So, I think the the idea of being able to fail more, fail faster makes a lot of sense, but I think you also have to be able to assess what's going wrong. Um if you have a strategy and you just keep running that strategy faster and faster, you might make some incremental gains. Um but do you have a process for assessing what's going wrong, figuring things out, or has it always been having the mentor that can sort of clear that blind spot for you? Well, that's what you have a team for. You know, we have coaches. We have mentors, teachers. My I'm you know, this this coming Friday uh we're all getting together via Zoom. And we're going to study uh Robert Kennedy Jr., you know, what he's saying about Bill Gates versus, you know, vaccine I'm not I'm not a vax guy. I'm not But we get together to study together. We're always studying. We study constantly. We read books together and all this. And when I when we have people who are not I'm not interested in studying, then you're not our friend. It's that simple. I mean, it's pretty pretty clear. Just like in the Marine Corps, when we're at sea on a carrier, we had to run 4 miles a day, no matter what. So, we get on the aircraft carrier deck and we take laps. Now, I'd rather go sit in the coffee room and smoke a cigarette and drink coffee. But my team ran together. So, when we crashed, we were ready. And and that's what leadership is. You you have to bring people together and move them forward. It's really sad, you know, there are a lot of days There are days on missions I'd stand on the deck and my friends don't come back. You know, they just don't return. They're missing in action today. And so, those those are the kinds of lessons where they to test your soul. How strong is your soul? And we all have them. But most of us don't ever put ourselves in the situation where we're testing our soul. And we all have it. I know that. I've seen young men and women just get stronger and stronger and more resilient. What you what you're calling anti-fragile by talent. But most of those things are just buzzwords live buzzwords, you know. Everybody Oh, yeah. I got the fourth turning and this crap and that crap and then just show me the money. Show me your money. Show me your team. You know, did this did this crash destroy you or did it make you better? So right now, I'm making money hand over fist. For the same reason. Prepared for it. So I I want to start getting specific. You've thrown out um some really powerful ideas like sales being super critical. What are a few lessons that you learned from selling that have continued to carry through your life? Prove it. That's all we show me. I don't like, you know, in the Marine Corps, we call them whip jaws. All talk, nothing going on. It's a I'm going to say it again. Who are your five effing friends? That's it. I heard you once say that um you had a lot of respect for um JFK. And I'm curious, what was it about him that um resonated with you? Courage. You know, profiles in courage and all that. That was that was his book. And uh he inspired people. I'm not a Republican or Democrat. I vote for the man or the woman. And well, he inspired me. Um who out there right now do you think has um great advice for getting through this difficult time? And I'd love to know why you think those particular people are great. That's that's a great question. I mean, your generation has the best teachers in the world. They're on YouTube. They're not in colleges. I mean, the people I run into on YouTube, they're they blow me away. This guy George Gammon, have you seen him? The Rebel Capitalist? Yeah. Holy mackerel, is that guy a young guy? About your age. Brilliant. And there's uh Brent Johnson, Milkshake Theory. I I'm basically a finance guy. So, I hang out with finance guys. You know, I don't I don't watch Martha Stewart and home cooking. You know, I don't I don't know if she has a website or not, but I don't watch her. It's just I like to eat. I don't like to cook, you know what I mean? So, all those things. So, I would say uh George Gammon, g a m m o n, he's fantastic. This guy Patrick Bet-David is fantastic. London Real, Brian Rose, they have the best teachers on. So, you have more access to great teachers than ever before via YouTube and your little handheld devices. But, it's up to you to choose, what do I want to learn? And and so, I'm blown away at how many great teachers are on the world today. I'm very impressed. That's why I said I wanted to be on your program because I'm the old guy I'm phasing out. And and I can pass on the best I know, but I'm definitely not going to say to go back to school, get your master's degree, and look for a nice secure job, and climb the corporate ladder. I'm not your teacher there. That's my core debt. So, give us the if if you make an analogy between finance and your military training. Um so, you've got the guy who got the private pilot's license took him six weeks, took you three years, was much more dangerous, but the depth of knowledge is is more usable is probably um the best way to explain that. What can people do now um to learn the game of finance? So, what can people be doing to practice, to really train, to excel at this game in this crazy time? Well, that's why in 1997 I created the Cashflow 101 and 202 board game. It's the only game that teaches you accounting by having fun. So, the Cashflow game I play at least 10 times because each time you play you're learning something new. What what what the game is doing cuz you have to move move pieces and write and all this stuff is moving your neural pathways. You have to train, you know, the most important thing is change the neural pathways in your brain. And and the brain is driven driven by your heart. And when I meet somebody with an employee's brain, [clears throat] they say, "I want job security. I want I want a good pension. Do I have Does it have medical benefits?" That's their brain. It's them speak I can't help them. They got to rewire the brain, yeah. Cuz the economy takes place between this year and this year. That's where the economy takes place. And in your heart and in your guts. I started playing Monopoly. I was 9 years old. And I always played Monopoly except I play it in real life. You know, four green houses, one red hotel, tax-free. And if you really If you really got to learn to be rich, you have to learn how to sell, how to use debt, and how not to pay taxes. That's the game. All right. Well, then let's dive into those details. Um you've talked about there's three types of money. I think that a lot of people don't understand that. Uh if you can explain that and then explain uh the principles behind Cashflow and Monopoly, I think that'd be super helpful for people. Yeah, well, there's three kinds of income, okay? There's ordinary, portfolio, passive. So, when you say to some poor kid, "Go to school, get a job." They're working for ordinary income, the highest tax income in the world. I don't work for ordinary income. I don't want a paycheck. Passive income is generally what happens when you invest in the stock market. I mean portfolio income. So, they say, "Well, I bought Tesla at 100, it went up to 200, I sold it. So, I made $100. That's portfolio income. That's taxed at the next higher level. So, when I have passive income, it's tax-free. Getting passive income, you have to know what you're doing. So, that's why I have the best First of all, bookkeeper, accountants, attorneys, bankers. I operate as a team. Just like my my when we flew into combat, we're a team. And most people are trying to do it self-employed way. You know, I'm a I'm a good computer programmer. Good. You pay the highest taxes. You work the hardest. You don't get ahead that way. But, that's what most people they they want to do it on their own. You know, if you want it done right, do it by yourself. And an employee is always saying the same words, you know, this this year and this year. I'm looking for a safe, secure job with benefits and a paycheck and a pension. Uh you got that? That's what they're looking for. So, if I have a job, I'll help them. Uh a self-employed person say, "How you doing?" "I'm the best." Good. I'll hire the best. But, you the government's going to penalize me for that cuz you're cuz you're working for a qua- blended income. Well, it's more passive income. It's actually ordinary income. But, um you pay the highest taxes. The tax laws are nothing but incentives, not punishments. So, if you donate if I I just donated um money to the food bank to auto auto food. So, it was 10,000 bucks. I get a tax break. I don't donate money to the food bank, no tax break. So, because I have 7,000 rental unit apartment houses, I get a tax break. You know why? Cuz I'm providing housing. And because I have thousands of employees, I get a tax break. The government even sent me money to pay my employees. It's just a different game. It's I I like It's like soccer and rugby are two different games, two different types of players. I said my wife's a golfer, you know. I play golf, but I'm not I don't enjoy the game. She's fanatical. But she would be an S, you know, self-employed type and all this stuff. She's going to do it on her own. I I cannot do my job on my own. I cannot go on the rugby field by myself. And when I go on to the field of business, I don't go by myself. Bookkeepers, accountants, attorneys, bankers, and whoever else. And that's how we play the game. So, I I may be just coming at this from a slightly different perspective. So, my goal would be to help people right now um that may struggle to put a roof over their head or may struggle to eat. I have one last Well, first, where can people connect with you? Oh, it's richdad.com. The most important thing for these people right now is choose your teachers wise. And I commend you for attempting to help people. As if I could leave anything to you, the people that are listening to you right now, commendable. They're They're lucky. They're looking for answers. But it comes back down to who your five friends and are you happy with them? Or is it time to move on? Man, it's incredible that you've continued to pour into people all these years in um trying to help. I really really appreciate that. What is my last question? What is the impact that you want to have on the world? Well, I I I I said it to you, thank you for having me on your program. This is an honor but at this present time. And I I just think this is the neatest format. You know, you're a young man. You're going to evolve into a great great teacher. Cuz I know you'll push yourself. You'll push yourself cuz you want to help other people. That's the most commendable part. You may not do it the same way. But is it in your heart and soul to make your your your fellow human a better a your So, you keep up the good work. Thank you, Robert. And thank you so much for being on the show today. I really appreciate it. Guys, if you're not following him, he's putting out tremendous amounts of information. The books are incredible. Uh he's got a lot of social content that I think will also resonate and help people through this time. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. One common mistake that people make is they just try to cut a little bit of everything. 5% here, 5% there. Life sucks when [music] you do that. And the classic thing we've all heard is $3 lattes, blah, blah, blah. Saving $3 lattes is not going to change your life at all.