REPOST: Fail Better- Health Justice Lessons from NS's Deinstitutionalization & Prison Abolition Mvts
Watch on YouTubeVideo summary
The Health Justice Institute at Dalhousie University is dedicated to advancing health justice through an intersectional framework that addresses inequitable access to social determinants like housing and income based on race, indigeneity, gender, and disability. Grounded in the recognition of Aboriginal treaty rights and African Nova Scotian history, this initiative defines health justice not merely as a scholarly concept but as a transformative movement utilizing strategies such as mutual aid, prefiguring just institutions, and abolition remedies that redirect resources from carceral systems to community supports. This approach is illustrated by significant successes in Nova Scotia, including the rapid decarceration of nearly half its jail population during the early stages of the COVID-19 pandemic through grassroots collaboration, and a historic 2023 settlement ordering the closure of large disability institutions in favor of individualized community care driven by sustained advocacy from families and organizations.
To sustain these transformative changes against neoliberal pressures, the institute employs "narrative justice" to center marginalized voices and counter epistemic injustice where expert authority silences lived experience. This philosophy is operationalized through new Community Health Justice Partnerships that expand upon Medical-Legal Partnership models by explicitly integrating lawyers into healthcare teams to dismantle legal barriers while honoring Indigenous stewardship traditions. The program emphasizes deep listening, slow justice, and arts-based engagement to connect individual struggles with systemic causes of racism, ableism, and colonial injustice, moving beyond simple poverty alleviation to address the root structures that perpetuate health inequities within prisons and disability facilities.
The practical implementation of this vision begins in fall 2024 with a practicum course designed by law and social work students working alongside community leaders at four initial sites focused on Indigenous rights via Jordan's Principle, arts-based support for people with disabilities, prison compassionate release issues, and newcomer family medicine. Rather than building costly internal infrastructure, the model leverages external legal resources to focus energy on responsive education and potential test case litigation that can shift power dynamics toward impacted communities. Evaluation of these efforts prioritizes co-designed action research over traditional metrics, ensuring that community expertise defines what truly matters in measuring success while maintaining vigilance against institutional capture even when partnering with correctional authorities during crises.
The initiative is deeply rooted in a commitment to relational accountability and the dignity of those historically marginalized by systems designed for their control or exclusion. This dedication was poignantly highlighted through projects like "My Home, My Rights," where people with intellectual disabilities assert leadership locally and internationally, as well as tributes to advocates like Tona Mills whose life story inspired artistic resistance against weaponized narratives. By fostering interdisciplinary collaboration between law, medicine, dentistry, and communities, the Health Justice Institute aims to create a sustainable model of justice that prefigures abolitionist ideals while actively dismantling the carceral and institutional barriers that have long prevented equitable health outcomes for vulnerable populations across Canada.
Read the full video transcript
Welcome everybody.
My name is Matthew Herder and it's my
pleasure to welcome you here and
introduce our speaker, the final speaker
for our seminar series this year at the
Health Justice Institute here at
Delhazi. Um, DAL operates on the
unseated territories of the Mikmma, the
Wisay,
and the Besco Doati peoples. These
sovereign nations hold inherent rights
as the original peoples and keepers of
these lands, and we each carry
collective obligations under the peace
and friendship treaties. Section 35 of
the Constitution Act 1982 recognizes and
affirms Aboriginal and treaty rights in
Canada. We also recognize that African
Nova Scotians are distinct people whose
histories, legacies, and contributions
have enriched that part of MCMI
known as Nova Scotia for over 400 years.
Um, it's really a pleasure for me um as
a colleague, as a friend, as someone who
greatly admires Sheila's work. She
really doesn't need much of an
introduction. She asked me not to really
do one to to give more time for the
presentation and discussion. But I just
want to say on a personal note and a
note that I think extends to everyone
here and beyond, uh, Sheila is a a rare
scholar whose work is both expansive in
terms of the material and issues she
engages with, but so grounded at the
same time in personal relationships
in a deeply human way with people in the
community experiencing marginalization.
Uh, forms and I can think of no better
person um even if it fails to play with
her title for a bit to think about this
turn that we're really excited about
taking continuing and expanding upon at
the health justice institute around uh
really leaning into and making our work
uh community centered community led in
allyship with many community- based
actors and so it's really exciting to
hear Sheila sort of expand on that
vision here today share some of her work
and talk about what this shift at the
Health Justice Institute might look like
in in conversation with you. So, Sheila,
>> thank you.
Thank you, Matt.
Let's see. Oh, there we go. So, really
happy to and grateful to uh be able to
speak with you today. Um, so when I
stepped in as Health Justice Institute
director in July, I inherited a question
uh which is this question.
What does it mean to stand for health
justice and work for health justice in
these troubled times? Times of war,
climate crisis, accelerating material
inequality, the rise of
authoritarianism, and with it a
retraction at the highest levels of
power uh from even the facade of
commitment to global health, climate
justice, medical science, human rights.
I ask this question not rhetorically uh
or idly but with purpose. As someone
working here and now at this university
directing the Health Justice Institute,
which spans faculties of law, health,
medicine, and dentistry, what should we
do to support health justice in these
times? My remarks today offer a
preliminary and partial response
reflecting my scholarly and advocacy
focus on decarceration and
deinstitutionalization
projects anchored in health justice or
equitable access to the social
determinance of health. My aim is to
draw from those examples and take stock
of related themes in my research and to
propose one small way that I and we at
the Health Justice Institute might
contribute in a way that seeks to honor
and amplify community embedded insights
about health injustice and justice in a
world of increasingly remote and
abstract legal and health
professionalism and knowledge
production. a world and I include in
this the world of our students
increasingly starved for human
connection and purpose.
So I preface my remarks with
acknowledgement of our locatedness in
MCMagi honoring the Wabanaki traditions
of stewardship and connection to and on
these lands is fundamental to health
justice amidst generations of
colonialism including colonialist
university dealings.
I'll start, here's the plan, with two
case studies centering
deinstitutionalization and decarceration
and intended to distill insights and
questions on what it means to pursue
community engaged health justice in the
here and now. Then I'll trace a path
through my community-engaged research
and service, a story of hope and of
progressively failing better. As I say,
I highlight a few examples I describe as
efforts to amplify subjugated knowledge
and connect that knowledge to the wider
project of health justice. And I
conclude by describing an initiative
that Professor Herder and I and others
at the HJI are launching, community
health justice partnerships. What this
is, what it might be is something that I
invite you to imagine with us as we
explore new ways of connecting legal
with health professionals, individual
problems with social structural
determinance, individualized with
systemic advocacy, heart with mind, and
the university with the wider community
in the service of health justice. So,
let's start with what is health justice.
The health justice institute changed our
name. Oh, changed our name uh to uh
health justice from health law institute
a few years ago to signal a deepened
commitment to interdisciplinarity
and to recognize that law has frequently
been a source of injustice corrosive to
health particularly for communities
subordinated by colonial racist
heteronormative and abbleist inequality.
At the same time, our name change picks
up on a scholarly and social movement
trend reflected here on this slide where
health justice is defined as both a
framework for health and policy, health
law and policy scholarship and a social
movement. On this approach, as a
research framework, health justice
engages the role of law and policy in
creating and potentially dismantling
subordination in health care and public
health. Here the normative anchor is
intersectional substantive equality. A
concern to red address inequitable
access to social determinance of health
on grounds of race, indigenity, gender
and gender identity and disability. That
imperative may be traced to
international law on the right to health
and the social, economic and cultural
rights that underpin it as well as
anti-discrimination law. The same
imperative of intersectional substantive
equality drives the health justice
movement which seeks to overcome and
remediate inequitable access to the
social determinance of health. As
defined, health justice is a big tent.
It encompasses scholarly inquiry as well
as social movement advocacy on say
climate justice, indigenous justice,
reproductive justice, justice and access
to essential medicines and more. Its
strategies, both scholarly and
movement-based, are similarly capacious.
Health justice scholarship tends to be
deeply interdisciplinary, connecting
legal analysis to quantitative and
qualitative empirical inquiry. Further,
while it does not narrow to a single
research method, it is closely aligned
with action research involving
community-led design and pursuit of
research questions engaging live
problems those communities seek to
solve. drawing scholarly and movement
aspirations together to support those
directly affected by health inequalities
to create and sustain the conditions of
health and justice.
My work in recent years has focused on
one corner of health justice, namely how
coercive control across both
justice-based and care institutions
interacts with inequitable access to the
social determinants of health. I situate
that work in light of social
determinance research. For instance,
affirming the birectional relationship
of psychosocial disability with poverty,
homelessness, and other forms of social
exclusion. Further, I and others explore
how disability institutionalization,
segregating people in congregate spaces
and depriving them of choice and
control, is constituted by deprivation
of the social determinance of health.
For its part, criminal law incarceration
is not only over representative of
people with disabilities, but also of
people with disabling social
characteristics, including poverty,
homelessness, childhood trauma, and
involvement in child welfare systems.
Indigenous people and people of African
descent are also, as you know, grossly
over represented in prisons and jails.
In short, the social determinants of
disability, disability
institutionalization, and criminal law
incarceration overlap in significant
ways. The common foundation of criminal
law incarceration and disability
institutionalization in lack of access
to housing, income, and other social
determinants of health may be more
constructively stated as a thesis about
the health and justice protective
factors conducive to health justice.
disability justice, race and indigenous
justice. This further cashes out as a
question, namely, how might we advance
decarceration and deinstitutionalization
by promoting equitable access to the
social determinance of health to
adequate housing, food, income, the
social bases of self-respect in a manner
reflective of intersectional substantive
equality. So, I offer a few touchstones
from which I draw inspiration in
answering that question before turning
to my case studies. I start with the
social movements and community-based
organizations in our backyard that make
it their business to pursue equitable
access to the social determinance of
health and resist healthing
institutionalization and incarceration
every day. I'll come back to these
grassroots players in the space of
decarceration and deinstitutionalization
as I go through uh and I'm co-chair of
one of them with Renford Frier my
co-chair that's East Coast Prison
Justice Society Sonia's here who is our
amazing staff answering our phone line
um not answering it right now but uh
relatedly I draw inspiration from Andrea
Richie and others elaboration of a black
feminist practice of emergent
transformative ative justice strategies
in troubled times. Richie analogizes
emergent strategies to coordinate
organic microprocesses like mushrooms
detoxifying soil after disasters and
argues that even small moves to animate
justice at the level of our relations to
ourselves and those immediately around
us can have transformative effects over
time. Emergent strategies stand in
contrast to mass movements and
hierarchical or linear strategies
embracing creativity, imagination,
experimentation, also grace, kindness,
and care to guide resistance to the
violence and war endemic to white
supremacist and colonialist capitalism.
In a related vein, I'm inspired by an
idea resurfacing in critical theory
circles, that of prefiguring justice,
described by Algra Mloud as the
imagining and generating of alternative
institutions and relations based on
equity, mutual aid, and
self-determination.
Originating in 1960s anarchos syndicist
critiques of statist Marxism, the idea
is to act as if the revolution has
already happened and shape one's legal
and social relations in ways that
reflect movement goals. Examples include
local exchange trading systems and buy
nothing groups, bypassing money markets
while fostering social connection
through direct trade and mutual aid.
Another example in our midst is African
Nova Scotia's community land trusts. My
case studies and the community health
partnerships I will speak to aspire to
this ethos of instilling values and
norms resistant to oppressive social and
institutional structures through quote
local efforts to imagine and manifest
just relations in the here and now.
My last touchstone is abolition remedies
an idea advanced in legal scholarship in
the last 7 10 years or so after being
wellseed in social and political theory.
This encompasses first the idea of
non-reformist reforms popularized by
black feminist prison abolitionist
Miriam Cabba. This means resisting
reformist reforms premised on what is
possible within the existing order. Wins
that carry bigger losses like a win on
prison overcrowding resulting in new
jails. Non-reformist reforms focus on
what should be made possible to achieve
deep social transformation like reducing
high rates of pre-trial incarceration by
promoting new ways of supporting freedom
in community. Second, grounded
preventative justice is a term Allegra
Mloud uses to describe redirecting
resources from carceral institutions to
the means of advancing and protecting
just community membership like free and
voluntary community-based health care,
education, and safe and affordable
housing. Third is the need to link up
macrolevel strategies, say systemic
legal remedies in the vein of the
disability rights coalition case about
to be explored with micro strategies
like individualized habius corpus
applications that creatively anticipate
and protect against incursions on
transformative systemic change.
With that, I turn to my two case studies
which elaborate my earlier claim that
decarceration and deinstitutionalization
are both grounded in equitable access to
the social determinance of health while
also advancing a further claim that Nova
Scotia is a good spot for creative
prefiguration of the worlds we want.
Perhaps in part because we're so darn
small. Um, I was engaged with both these
happenings in a tangential though
intense way alongside many others as a
law prof, co-chair of East Coast Prison
Justice, facilitator of an intellectual
disability action research collective,
My Home, My Rights. However, my remarks
are rooted mainly in published documents
and uh uh commentary. So, first is Nova
Scotia's CO 19 rapid decarceration.
On the one side there, this describes a
fiveweek period at the start of the
pandemic in March, April 2020 when the
provincial jail population in Nova
Scotia was reduced by nearly 50% in
about four weeks, the highest proportion
released in the country. And the second
is the disability rights coalition
remedy, a June 2023 human rights
tribunal settlement order obliging Nova
Scotia to remediate systemic
discrimination within 5 years by closing
all large disability institutions,
including supported residences with more
than four people and introducing
individualized disability support
funding. This is an extraordinary
deinstitutionaliz
deinstitutionalization
order complete with reporting
requirements, benchmarks, external
expert oversight and more putting Nova
Scotia on the global map as a leading
example of law and social movement
coordination.
So starting with the rapid
decarceration, my colleague who's here,
Adelina F10A, there's Adelina uh writes
a wonderful article in the DAO law
journal in the middle there 2021 article
that by uh July 2020, most country and
says this in the article that in July
2020, most countries had failed to
adequately heed early calls of
international human rights and health
groups to protect prisoners against CO
19. such that by that time across 36
countries over 100,000 incarcerated
people had been infected and over 1,500
were dead. Recommendations from
international organizations focused on
decarceration and providing housing and
health supports on the outside as well
as public health measures inside with
monitoring for infringement of residual
liberties. This was easier said than
done. Canada's federal prisons
administered by Correctional Services
Canada rejected calls to decarcerate
although the rate of infection was over
10 times higher than in the community
and over 77 times higher among federally
sentenced women. All of which had dis
disproportionate effects on people with
disabilities inside. Disproportionate
effects were of course also felt in
disability institutions where residents
experienced harsh isolation and
sometimes elevated rates of CO 19
infection and death. Returning to that
March 2020 weekend when COVID came down,
the concern arose here in Nova Scotia
among prisoner justice advocates that
those incarcerated in the provincial
jails would be forgotten despite what we
knew about their disproportionate
vulnerability to infection given
overcrowding and over representation of
pre-existing chronic disease. Beyond
Professor if Tenny's article placing
Nova Scotia's rapid decarceration in a
wider context of national and global
public health measures. This slide
features two publications by Ash Avery
who at the time of CO's inception was ED
of a group supporting justice involved
women and non-binary folks Coverdale
Justice Society. Uh she's now ed of Feed
Nova Scotia. One of these is her Master
of Arts thesis and the other an article
co-authored with former prisoner and
social justice leader, present social
justice leader Sarah Tessier. Both
reflecting on work on the front lines of
release planning and support during this
period. Avery's thesis, Frameworks for
Freedom, recounts an array of creative
measures taken by community
organizations, some in collaboration
with government and some as improvised
mutual aid. East Coast Prison Justice
was part of a coalition of nonprofits
including Coverdale, Ephry Mainland,
Wellness Within, eventually the North
End Health Clinic, Direction 180, and
more. jointly drafting communications
and in the first three weeks of the
pandemic meeting with top officials
including deputy ministers of justice,
community services, and municipal
affairs to promote expedited bail
reviews, conditional release,
accelerated health and income and
housing supports, intersection
intersectoral bail support planning, and
more. The unity of purpose was moving
and tireless. That said, there were
missteps. I and others found ourselves
repeatedly describing because it was
effective provincial prisons and
prisoners as quote unquote vectors of
contagion requiring release for the
greater good. Among the most radical
developments of the period was a
homegrown expression of mutual aid
whereby Ephry Coverdale and John Howard
came together in unprecedented fashion
to co-create supported housing for those
exiting rapidly exiting the jails. Avery
describes the initiative called JEC as
anchored in harm reductive,
trauma-informed, feminist, and
anti-opressive theories and practices.
Harm reduction supports were provided by
North End Clinic staff and formerly
incarcerated peer mentors, including
dedicated indigenous, African Nova
Scotian, and queer peer supports.
Clients were assigned a caseworker for
navigating longerterm houser housing and
health needs. Halifax library staff were
on site renewing pre-existing
relationships with those who previously
had found shelter and community in the
library. JEC quickly became a go-to for
police rather than the lockup or drunk
tank. None of the over 40 people
supported over the five months it ran
breached their conditions of release.
However, federal funding dried up after
a few months and government,
specifically community services, took
over placement and case management
absent harm reduction and other
supports. Avery observes that while
federal funding for nonprofit supported
housing later expanded, the harm
reduction approach, which had which had
protected against breaching and
reincarceration was not replicated. She
adds that the province has since
invested in technological over
community-led, including indigenousled
bail supports. By the fall of 2021, the
Nova Scotia jail population had crept
back up to pre2020 levels and
incarcerated people were subject to
harsher conditions than ever, including
prolonged lockdowns seriously impairing
physical and mental health. In some,
Nova Scotia's rapid COVID decarceration
prefigured abolition in the style of
grounded preventive justice, but all too
fleetingly.
Unlike the rapid deinstitutionalization
story, my second decarceral case study,
the disability rights coalition case
features litigation as a key driver in
coordination with gradually intensified
social movement advocacy. That said, the
lines blur a bit given the sustained
social justice engagement of the lawyers
leading this case uh on the right there.
Um so poverty lawyers Vince Calderhead
poverty lawyer Vince Calderhead
represented the individual and
represents the individual complainants
although all but all but one have died.
Uh the original one of the original
complaintants was Beth Mlan there. Uh
and also on this side are other uh
social movement actors. So disability
rights coalition spokespeople Vicky
Lavac uh and Lita Jarvis. Um so there's
Spence. Back to the lawyers. Claire
McNeel of DAO legal aid uh representing
the disability rights coalition. Now
it's Kran Mc uh now Katran McNeel yes is
representing. Not to be forgotten is
Dalaw's Diane Patche who contributed to
the launch of the complaint in 2014
including through co-design of the first
iteration of the systemic remedy. The
groundbreaking remedy I already
described requiring
deinstitutionalization within five years
originated in a statutory human rights
complaint brought by Mlan and two others
who had lived for over 10 years in a
hospital ward reserved for people with
concurrent psychiatric disorders and
intellectual disability. Why? Why over
10 years in a clangy, bangy, terrible,
you know, emergent uh psych ward?
Because according to the province, there
were no appropriate community spaces for
them. The DRC joined to say the core
problem was not individual. It was
systemic. Many were similarly wasting
away in highsecurity institutions or on
weight lists for appropriate residential
supports and living in inappropriate
spaces in community. The analytical core
of the case was discrimination, lack of
equitable access to social assistance.
That is in Nova Scotia, non-disabled
people are formally entitled to social
assistance without delay should one meet
income criteria. Yet, if one is disabled
and owed assistance through disability
support, one was placed on decades long
wait lists or in a controlling
institution. In 2021, the Nova Scotia
Court of Appeal ruled that this was
systemic discrimination.
After the Supreme Court of Canada
refused leave, the province and DRC
entered in to the historic settlement
remedy that I've described, featuring
timelines and benchmarks for closing
Nova Scotia's disability institutions
and adopting a rights respecting system
of individualized supports by 2028.
To be clear, advocacy for
deinstitutionalization had been pressed
by Nova Scotia disability advocates and
families since at least the 1980s.
Report after report had exposed
injustice, yet government did not budge.
It was litigation that consolidated and
activated a movement that at that point
had no political clout. And it was
litigation plus litigation amplified
social movement advocacy that moved
government to eventually accept the
settlement and recently to walk back
from proposed disability support cuts.
How the remedy is unfolding is a matter
of public record given the reporting
requirements. However, there remains
need for vigilance. In January, the DRC
released comments on the province's
progress at the halfway point. It
recognized significant changes to the
disability support system, yet called
out a failure to meet benchmarks on
release from the largest institutions
and creation of community-based
supports. On the side of hope and
potential interconnection between
deinstitutionalization and
decarceration,
Emma Halpern, ED of Ephry Mainland,
shared recently that a year or two ago
after a session at DAL on the DRC
remedy, she i.e. E Fry reached out to
the disability support program and this
led to a new supported housing
initiative through which eight women
with complex mental health challenges,
addictions, childhood trauma and
criminalization who'd cycled for years
between prisons, involuntary
hospitalization and homelessness now
live independently in their own
apartments with staff who provide care
and community completely removed from
the hospitals and criminal legal system.
that in our small world of Nova Scotia
health justice is earth shaking. So what
takeaways might these case studies
offer? For me, there are at least two.
First, the transformative power of
community-led justice strategies. The
rapid COVID decarceration story in
particular reminds of the importance of
building relationships of trust over
time among nonprofits, with marginalized
constituencies and with government to
support mobilization of services to the
most marginalized in times of emergency
and also at the best of times. Second,
the transformative power of creative
lawyering. There is in the law and
society literature a well-developed
critique that litigation sucks the
radical pretent potential from social
movements. Yet a competing increasingly
robust literature focuses on creative
community connected lawyering designing
and pursuing legal remedies with social
movements in ways that stay attuned to
the goals of system transformation.
Benefits of such alliances include
strengthened public narratives about
movement goals and struggle, coalition
building effects, and instilling rights
consciousness and empowerment among
those long treated as lacking agency. So
just as Nova Scotia's CO 19 rapid
decarceration is exemplary of creative
community organizing, facilitating
equitable access to the social
determinance of health. So the DRC case
is exemplary of creative social movement
lawyering, strengthening social
movements by anchoring them in legal
authority.
Yet these examples also suggest the
vulnerability of deep transformative
change to the social, political, and
economic structures that make prisons
and disability institutions as well as
poverty and homelessness seem necessary.
Leat Ben Moshe and others have shown
that both deinstitutionalization and
decarceration are chronically vulnerable
to neoliberal imperatives of cost
savings, retracting or reneging on
community-based supports while playing
up the need for coercive containment of
the dangerous or incapable few. From
this follows a few questions, namely how
can transformative reforms like these
health and disability justice wins be
sustained? More pointedly, from where I
stand, how can universities promote
health justice, a a health justice
teaching, research, and service ecology
that respects and fosters the leadership
of communities lacking equitable access
to social power? More pointedly still,
how can we at the Health Justice
Institute contribute to such work?
acknowledging that much is already being
done through such critical vehicles as
Dell housy legal aid and Dell's social
work, family medicine and dental
clinics.
So here my remarks turn to method taking
stock of a tr a strand in my scholarship
that helps contextualize the vision of
community health justice partnerships
that I'll close with. And from there
I or sometimes we gradually surface
justice insights bringing the story into
relationship with systemic analysis
about how health and disability
injustice is produced and sustained and
how the conditions of that injustice
might be transformed. So the method
might be described as an effort at
narrative justice.
Distinct but related is a project in
some of my work of seeking to expose and
unseat epistemic injustice. A term some
of you would be familiar with. It's in
the literature. Epistemic like around
knowing injustice.
And this is the assertion of expert
authority and institutional power to
deny what individuals and communities
know about their own lives as a means of
countering epistemic injustice.
narrative method or narrative justice
seeks to activate the power of
individuals and communities to shape and
control the stories through which their
identities and capacities are
constructed.
Narrative justice includes but is not
reducible to the powerful tradition of
counter stories in critical race,
indigenous and disability theory. A
tradition harnessing the power of
stories to surface embody justice
insights rooted in marginalized and
resistant subject positions.
Narrative justice might also include
deep listening in clinical law, mindful
engagement intended to disrupt
tendencies of legal and other
professionals to impose their narratives
on those they serve, and also as a means
for the professional to check in on
their nervous system responses.
Troubling narrative justice is the
question of whether or how those who are
not members of a given justice-seeking
community might enter into narrative
justice engagement without exploitation,
extraction, or hurtful distortion of
other stories. Who can tell or retell
health justice stories in situations of
asymmetrical power is a central question
for social movement lawyers just as it
is for interdisciplinary health justice
educators, students and researchers. So
with all that with all that trouble in
mind, let me turn to some stories from
my career as a legal schol scholar such
as it is a career of progressively
failing better at critical
community-engaged scholarly practice. I
take this route on the way to
introducing the HJI's community health
justice partnerships. Our plan for
interdisciplinary community-based
education rooted in narrative justice
and slow justice in deep listening as
both method and ethos including
listening across profound differences in
identity, background and communication
styles in the hope we might work
together to connect individual problems
to structural conditions and collective
strategies.
So again, my method, such as it is in a
thick strand of my scholarship, has been
to dig into an individual's story,
perhaps paradoxically, to redirect
attention from the individual viewed as
the site or source of drama or crisis or
disruption to the social or
institutional structures that
precipitate or exacerbate crisis and
coercive social responses thereto. I'll
start with my earliest work on the
Supreme Court of Canada's 2003 decision
in Starson and sees read narrowly.
Starson was about legal capacity to make
decisions about psychiatric treatment.
Starson's doctors had determined that
his rejection of both the diagnosis they
assigned him schizopeffective disorder
and their proposed treatment reflected a
lack of insight on Starson's part and
inability to appreciate he was ill. The
Supreme Court overturned that based on a
sympathetic reading of Starson's
asserted preference for his untreated
over his treated condition and an
unsympathetic reading of the doctor's
testimony that Starson's preferences
were symptoms, not reasons.
At first, I was interested in Starson as
a story about law's vindication of value
pluralism. But over time, what
interested me more was a more
complicated story pieced together
through tribunal transcripts, court
decisions, other documents about how
decisionmaking capacity is shaped in
relationship and undermined by coercive
systems. For instance, I brought out how
Starson's first encounter with police
and hospital staff had escalated rapidly
to restraint and forcible injection, an
all too common pattern which in his case
set in motion a lifetime of adversarial
struggle. Further, I focused on passages
in the Supreme Court judgment largely
overlooked in the case law and
commentary emphasizing the duty to
address environmental factors that
impair decision-making such as lack of
information, emotional upset or sedating
medication.
In this way, I suggested that the court
or more deeply starson's story, the
court decision or more deeply starson's
story be read through the lens of
reasonable accommodation,
urging a shift in focus in the law and
legal capacity from capacity as a
function of a healthy or broken brain to
capacity as a relational achievement
grounded in respect and trust, critical
social determinants of health and
justice. So, it took me a decade to get
Starson out of my system and wake up to
the fact that I'd been working on de
ideas, sympathetic to and yet in utter
isolation from the wider disability
justice community, including disability
rights advocates and organizations
representing people with psychosocial
and intellectual disabilities in the
negotiation and drafting of the UN
Convention on the Rights of Persons with
Disabilities or CRPD. It took local
disability rights leader Steven Estie to
come around proposing joint public
education sessions at DAL for me to wake
up to the importance of this treaty
engaging the radical abolitionist
aspirations of global disability
advocates in resistance to guardianship
institutionalization
and involuntary treatment and in favor
of supported community inclusion. Yet,
as I relate in a 2013 article, those
radical aspirations at the CRPD
negotiations precipitated sharp divides
between grassroots disability justice
movements and psychiatric and legal
expertise. divides centered on the
CRPD's article 12 engaging equality and
legal capacity and article 14 on liberty
and on who decides the legitimacy of
state laws authorizing guardianship,
substitute decision-making and
psychiatric detention. That rift and
attendant worries about delegitimization
of international law forms an important
backdrop to my others work on health and
disability justice and underlines the
importance of shared deliberation or
connected up knowing.
This image looks ahead to my failing
better post arson through work with an
interdisciplinary group to create and
pilot service user-led art and
story-based supported decision-making
workshops which we presented for staff
and residents in Nova Scotia's remaining
large uh and largest disability
institutions. In some way that was the
co culmination of my earlier work on
legal capacity as a relational
achievement. But returning to those
expert subject divides, I was invited in
2016 to participate in a co-authoring
project connecting lived expertise and
experience of disability injustice to
rightsbased law and policy reform under
the CRPD.
For this, I was paired with Rousi
Stanniv, who a few years before had won
a landmark European Court of Human
Rights case against Bulgaria,
establishing his 10-year
institutionalization in a remote
facility at the instigation of a
guardian as an illegal deprivation of
liberty and cruel and unusual treatment.
Rusei and I met three times on this
Irish-led project in Galway and remotely
many other times. Working together was
as challenging as it was energizing. The
distances geographic, economic,
linguistic were vast. Further, even
after his legal victory, Rusei remained
under a cfg gas guardianship while
cycling through institutions.
This became a major focus of our
chapter. If this is what happens to a
human rights hero, what good are human
rights? Our collaboration supported by
Russy's longtime lawyer and interpreter
Aneta Goenova who's pictured there
became an exploration in bridging those
distances including through art making
storytelling and what I reflect on in
our chapter as gifting ways of
recognizing and exchanging value outside
dominant market norms. On this slide is
a drawing Ry made one afternoon of its
stories, absurd and sad and crazy and
air guitar and bouncing on the bed. And
it depicts an image that Russy said he
had drawn repeatedly with a stick in the
road as he walked to and from the
institution
every day looking for a little day work
or conversation and looking to get away
from the drugging and torper of that
place which I have a picture of. I went
and visited later and it really is a
horror haunted horror place. I find the
figures that he drew transfixingly
ambiguous locked in a position of
domination, subordination, or maybe it's
a dance. It's a little like our writing
project.
I am an emotional person. Maybe this is
why I do this stuff. This this next
sentence is like that uh Russy died.
Yeah. from so-called natural causes uh
hastened by years of abuse and social
neglect just before our chapter was
finalized. The final form of the chapter
centers Russy's entries in a journal
addressed to me and my responses placing
his experience in dialogue with human
rights law and its limits. It was tragic
that Russie did not live to enjoy his
authorship and our book launch party and
so much more the sustained freedom and
reciprocity and love that he so hungered
for. So my work on starson was on
starson. My work with Russy was in
relationship however imperfect and
partial and complete. I had failed uh
better.
So um this part gets fun. Co-authoring
with Rissy motivated me to become more
engaged with disability justice and
deinstitutionalization at home. This led
to more community embedded advocacy
lending my legal analytical and research
and listening capacities to movement
goals. Eventually, I obtained SHK
partnership engage funding to co-launch
with inclusion Nova Scotia the action
research collective my home my rights
led by people with intellectual
disabilities in paid researcher roles.
The collective used creative methods to
define and explore a research question
that core members chose how can we use
human rights so that people with
intellectual disabilities are included
and respected in community.
So core members made and found art to
guide conversation on human rights and
what they mean in members lives. We
advocated around themes that came up in
those conversations, particularly
closing institutions and creating
inclusive communities. We made a
multimedia art show and exhibited it at
the Halifax Central and Alternegate
libraries.
That was so great. Uh we made videos
based on members stories with scripts
co-drafted and improvised by members.
The videos are available on the DRC
website and inclusion Nova Scotia
websites and they've been licensed to
NSCC to train disability support workers
on human rights practice.
We give presentations to local
nonprofits on what distinguishes support
from control or denial of agency. Uh
core members presented at international
conferences. And believe me, finding the
money for that, that's a whole talk in
itself. Uh oh, I've got some people who
helped with this here. It's great. um in
Gent Belgium where we also exhibited the
art show at the UN in New York where we
co-hosted a side event on inclusive
advocacy and human rights consciousness
raising and most recently in Dublin and
York uh York UK we co-hosted a workshop
on using art to support peer monitoring
of human rights in disability services
something I'll come back to although my
I'm having to speed up these are
examples of the collective's photo
portraiture co-designed by members and
photography for David Simmons and
juxtaposed in our art show with member
statements to express how each is the
author of their story about human rights
at home and in the community. The most
important project outcome is how each
member has since asserted leadership at
home and in the community. Simon Snder
and Connor Corey are now president and
vice president of People First Halifax.
Simon and Chantel Meister co-designed
and led the artsbased supported
decision-making curriculum I described
and are sought after speakers. Shantel
just texted me last night to say she's
speaking at White Point. Getting 500
bucks for that or something. Uh, EA EA
SD was not only a youth delegate at the
UN and Eay uh speaks through um
letterboard and his own sign system. Uh
this is this is Eay here. Uh yeah, he
was a youth delegate at the UN and also
lead plaintiff in a class action on
institutionalization which recently
settled for $33 million. Melly Thompson
and Jan Walters have asserted themselves
as disability justice leaders in the
organizations that support them. So
there are other stories I'd like to tell
of community-gaged co-creation and
mobilization of knowledge and justice.
Instead, I'll just point to the ecology
of local organizations working every day
to connect individuals to social
determinance of health and justice
preventive of incarceration and
institutionalization. The legal clinics
and nonprofits doing anti-poverty work,
prison justice work, work resisting and
redressing colonial, racist,
tetronormative, and abbleist
discrimination.
A more pointed example of community-led
justice advocacy. And thank you Sonia
for posting this. Sonia's gone. She had
to go answer the phones. Uh, sorry. Uh,
this says, "I turned to what the HGI
might do, including to better support
community action research. Here's a
recent report by Randolph Riley.
Anticipated at last year's Black Justice
Strategy Panel for the seminary seminar
series at which he spoke. Randy's
African Nova Scotian roots and
experience of federal and provincial
incarceration prior to the overturning
of his conviction position him as an
expert on systemic discrimination
affecting persons of African descent. An
expertise deepened and sharpened in this
report which presents and contextualizes
FOP data on disproportionate isolation
of persons of African descent in Nova
Scotia's jails. We just released this.
You can find it on our website. So
finally I arrive at the vision for
health community health justice
partnerships at Dell's Health Justice
Institute. A response partial but
hopeful to the question with which I
began which is how can we help support
and sustain health justice in these
times. How can we foster and ensure
fidelity to social movement wins like
the rapid decarceration and disability
deinstitutionalization examples I've
described? And how can we do so in ways
responsive to distinct communities
health justice priorities? Linking
individual injustice to systemic
remedies while also supporting students
and advocates to sustain health justice
work amidst so much suffering and
violence both fast and slow.
So the community health justice
partnership initiative we're launching
is rooted in an established model of
health justice advocacy called medical
legal partnerships or MLPS. Yale Cannon
has spoken about this previously in the
series as did Tess Sheldon just a few
weeks ago. This describes a deeply
interdisciplinary way of advancing
health justice by integrating lawyers
onto health care teams to address what's
called healthharming legal needs through
individualized and systemic advocacy.
Here health harming legal needs means
barriers to accessing the social
determinants of health such as income,
housing or employment security. And I
could go into the history but I'm going
to skip that right now. love to talk
about it if you want to talk about it in
the questions. A growing body of
research confirms the benefits of MLPS
including reduced emergency room visits
and hospitalizations, increased access
to social benefits, and enhanced
disciplinary collaboration to promote
these ends. All of which have produced
cost savings to health care systems.
Further, MLPS have contributed upstream
population health benefits through
systemic advocacy. for instance,
changing policies and practices uh to uh
reduce delays in accessing important
social benefits. And there's lots of
great literature out there. I'll skip
these detailed slides on activities and
impacts of MLPS which I provide simply
to show that there are detailed
schematics on point. Basic components of
the model include community
consultation, education and empowerment,
interprofessional, community co-led
collaboration and research, and
individualized and systemic advocacy.
So, some interesting slides coming, but
I'm not going to I don't want to dwell
on it now. Yale Cannon adds the
important argument that medical legal
partnerships should identify racism as a
specific expression of social structural
injustice rather than take a singular
poverty orientation or or if not we risk
reinforcing race injustice. This
requires education and advocacy
surfacing and challenging systemic
racism and I would add systemic racism
and abbleism as these intersect with
colonial injustice in health and related
social systems. Canon adds that MLP
should extend into criminal law settings
where mass incarceration is itself a
healtharming legal problem producing
related legal needs associated with
specific remedies like habius corpus
compassionate release parole and with
that I finally turn to the community
health justice partnerships we're
launching at the health justice
institute so what we envision reflects
our engagement with other health justice
partnership initiatives like Yale
Cannons and Tess Sheldon's Sheldon's
Windsor Law mental health justice
partnership model bringing law students
into collaboration with the empowerment
council at CAMH as well as drawing on
our own local connections and
capacities. Like medical legal
partnerships, the model we're building
starts with the recognition that
inequitable access to the social
determinance of health leads to poor
health outcomes. To that we add the MLP
commitment to interdisciplinary
collaboration to address those
inequities.
Finally, to Canon's point, our nent
model seeks to recognize that carceral
settings, including prisons and
disability institutions, express and
exacerbate health justice inequalities
in ways that systematically and
disproportionately do harm on grounds of
race, indigenity, as well as disability.
Further, in advancing community health
justice rather than medical legal
partnerships, we recognize that medicine
and law have themselves been barriers to
health and disability justice. We aim to
co-create and implement this model in
collaboration not only with health
clinicians, but also with community
justice workers in nonprofits and other
embedded experts able to inform
individualized and systemic advocacy.
So the se here's the calendar
description. The seed of the initiative
is a practicum course starting this
fall. And I'll add, and this is big
news, so wake up now. You're starting to
fall asleep. So am I. We're in the
process of hiring a chair in community
health justice partnerships who will
help refine and lead the course and
related initiatives. So here's the
calendar description which describes
community health justice partnerships as
community centric initiatives bringing
together health care professionals
community justice workers lawyers and
students for cross- sectoral
collaboration and problem solving to
address health inequities arising from
unequal access to the SDHs right income
housing employment and related denial of
rights and agency in health justice and
community services and it continues this
fullear course so we have a full year,
all the time in the world to slow down
and reflect and connect. We'll bring
together law students and students from
DAL's faculty of health for classroom
based learning and community service
responsive to intersecting
discrimination which creates and
perpetuates poverty, criminalization,
and other health harming injustices.
It's social work that we have our eye on
to start. Social work students really
excited about that. The practicum sites
are envisioned as four-fold with more to
come. contingent on further
conversations following the arrival of
the chair. These include an indigenous
health justice site focused on Jordan's
principal work. That would be work
assisting indigenous children and youth
and families denied disability and other
social supports. My colleague, Professor
Naomi Metallik and alumni David Taylor
are well positioned to advise on such
cases. Both were integral to the caring
society litigation. Second, a disability
health justice site at the arts forward
drop-in run by or co-run by Prescott
Group and Club Inclusion where
disability support and access there too,
including supported decision-making may
be is of interest. Again, we'll make
this up with the groups involved. a
prison health justice site engaging east
coast prison justice path legal and
ephry clients affected by health
disability and prison justice issues
from compassionate release needs to
restraints and seclusion and a family
medicine health justice site where for
instance assistance to newcomers seeking
individual and family supports may
anchor our engagement to be clear this
will not be a full-ervice clinic
consultation and legal education will
not require lawyer supervision or law
firm in infrastructure.
But in contrast, individualized client
relationship building and advocacy will
be contingent on and supported through
partnerships with law firms and legal
aid clinics external to the HJI. The aim
is to add value to those firms and to
community organizations and to
communities we engage through responsive
public education, assistance with
complex cases, potentially leveling up
to test case litigation, and the
community engaged interdisciplinary
acculturation of legal and health
professionals along the way and
investment in health justice futures. We
further promoted the practicum as
reflecting a commitment to narrative
justice, supporting people with
healtharming legal needs to tell their
stories in the way that's right for
them, including by offering more
expansive or creative opportunities to
do that than there's space for in a
traditional legal service relationship.
This is complemented by a commitment to
slow justice, taking the time to listen
and work collaboratively toward
holistic, sustainable change. To this
end, we'll work with partnered sites to
identify a maximum number of clients per
interdisciplinary student pair. Students
will be paired up law and social work at
these sites. Uh and ensure that clients
who enter into retainers with partnered
law firms or clinics and undertake
supervisory roles uh that those clients
will meet with students for a period
appropriate to their needs, potentially
weeks or months. So in short, we intend
the practicum to center holistic
learning, deep listening, including
through narrative and arts-based
engagement aimed at connecting
individual problems to systemic causes
and solutions. And I'm going to leave qu
leave questions around evaluation. I
wasn't going to go into it, but we're
really excited to engage the question of
how we will measure success of this
initiative in ways responsive to and
inclusive of the expertise of those
communities served. Um and I close with
this gesture to what else may fall under
the umbrella of community health justice
partnerships at the institute. Um
possibly one is an initiative I'm
exploring with an international network
of academics and self- advocates which
involves mobilizing disability support
service users as artsbased consciousness
raisers and monitors of respect for
human rights in disability services. And
that idea was something trial in 2003
2023 at a workshop where advocates
celebrated the disability rights
leadership of Steven SD and it also
builds on the work my home my rights did
with inclusion Ireland this past spring
and I really am going to um stop now is
it really it's five after right that's
not too bad I'm not the worst. Um so I
began by asking what we should do to
advance health justice in these troubled
times. My two case studies on radical
decarceration and deinstitutionalization
in Nova Scotia remind us that
sustainable health justice demands a
joined up ecology engaging grassroots
organizations, lawyers, and allied
social movement supporters. I argue
there's a critical need for
university-based actors to engage our
tripart tight responsibilities of
teaching, research, and service to
advance health justice, including but
not limited to the projects of
deinstitutionalization and
decarceration. So the community health
justice partnership vision that I shared
is one way of activating our capacities
to promote and sustain equitable access
to the social determinance of health in
a way that's responsive to community
priorities. So really finishing I hope
to have you know convinced you through
my reflections on progressively failing
better in the co-creation and
mobilization of knowledge uh that
there's a need for narrative justice for
slow justice arts-based other deep
listening practices as we seek to do
health justice you know not just
identify health harming needs but
prefigure uh
that I was GOING TO SAY
SORRY, I HAD THAT AHEM THING. THE JUST
relationships we want. That's what we're
prefiguring. Sorry, didn't want to leave
you hanging. Yeah, questions.
I do have a song.
I could play it at the very end if no
one has a question, but we need not go
right to the song.
>> We have time. Question.
>> I wasn't going to sing it. I'm honestly
not gonna sing the song because I I
actually love singing but I'm not very
good at it.
>> Yeah,
>> please.
>> Uh so some colleagues and I hosted a
symposium of folks who work in community
based organizations in healthare talk
about moral injuries.
>> Oh yeah,
>> Dr. Lisa Barrett, our beloved
keynote talking about how
>> seeing the swing back after the
institutionalization caused so much
injury.
and I can share because it was a public
>> and many healthare workers suffered like
serious lifeanging occur
>> um as a result of seeing the possibility
of justice and the possibility being
taken away.
>> Yeah.
>> But I'm also thinking that the
possibility of greater justice within
those systems would also add to positive
mental health and wellbeing of workers
in community based organizations and
healthare workers.
>> Yeah. So I'm wondering if there's any
plan to not just evaluate the program
but also to evaluate the benefits added
to small CBOS that might actually be
able to do more work on the front line
and to reduce structural violence and
like the impacts of austerity
organization.
>> Yeah, I'm going to go back to that
evaluation slide because I went over it
really fast and this is a paper which is
actually really interesting to me and I
need to spend more time with it but it
opens up this question how should we
measure because measuring these things
is really hard. These partnerships have
been around for a like decades and
they've been measured all kinds of ways,
but sometimes the measure is not a great
measure. Like it's not clear there's a
causal effect. It's not clear they've
sort of isolated the thing they're
measuring properly, but it's also not
clear that they're measuring what really
matters like to especially to as you say
the communities and organizations most
affected. And so this piece is exactly
about that like somehow measuring the
extent to which this kind of systemic
moving from the individual to the
structure work shifts power toward the
impacted communities. And in order to
sort of measure that, they go into it a
bit. I think you'd have to have a
process where you're co-designing like
even the questions you're going to ask
you. I love the idea of this being a big
like action research piece from the
ground up so that those participating
are thinking about how to measure it
thinking as they even go of what
questions need to be asked. But uh just
to go back to your earlier piece on on
moral injury, I'm really glad you
centered that. I'm not protect I've used
this language like deep listening and
stuff because I I hope that I'm like
just as a person okay at that. I'm
sometimes really bad. Like I'm actually
a terrible interrupter. I keep trying
not to but like I have an idea. I have
an idea. You know, like I want to say my
thing. I feel like I need the deep
training of deep listening. I'm not the
one who does that clinical training. Our
Dal Glade, they do a session in deep
listening. Niha Charia here is working
on mindful holistic teaching and lawyer
practice. And I think in our ADR she
addresses that. Anyway, I think it's a
really interesting piece and I'm holding
great hopes that the chair that we're
bringing in is well,
whoever they are, they are going to
center that in this year-long process
with a very small group. It's eight law
and eight starting social work working
together and thinking about how do we
slow down and listen not just to the
person but my understanding of deep
listening uh and some of these
techniques is that it's at least
intended to help you be aware of your
own em emotional response and try and
find ways to put that in a place that
allow you to keep doing the work because
burnout is so real and uh and I'm glad
you mentioned that and Lisa Barrett was
so incredible and integ integral to
those early days when I met is Lisa
right here. Oh my god, you are there.
You were look at you like you're so such
a rock star. I don't know. I think Lisa
Barrett was sort of talking to
absolutely everybody and was sort of
inside us. But certainly um lent her
expertise and insights to us even just
like on the side when we were trying to
sort of figure out what was happening.
So, so that is part of what I mean by
our community being a place that yes,
you can feel the the great weight and
harm, but I'm so elevated by how people
put their backs into building and
keeping those relationships. It just
it's staggeringly beautiful to me. Uh,
and I think it can be sustained. So, I
don't know how to answer apart from
that. That's great questions. Yeah.
Anything else?
Hi.
>> Um, when you're thinking about
partnerships and um nonreformist
reforms. Can you comment a little bit on
like reconciling an abolition
abolitionist sort of philosophy with
having to partner with say like the
prisons or the correctional authorities
in order to do this work or to do
research?
>> Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
There was one point in there where I was
saying that, you know, in order to
create this ecology, there's got to be
all this relationship building. And I
said included government in there and I
thought should I keep that in? Should I
take that out? Um but the just the brute
fact of it when I think back to what we
learned from that time on say the COVID
rapid it was essential to have those
lines of communication. They were
changing policies on the fly and and
doing work. I mean, and in the justice
sector, you know, provincial court judge
sitting over the weekend, that first
weekend out to do bail reviews, there
were many people with power who who did
things that were absolutely essential.
So it's true there's a whole not just
literature but a close study of of how
movements have risen and fall fallen and
part of it is about this kind of capture
like government captures the wave and
then it's kind of the story in part of
the when I told um uh but I don't think
we can just isolate and so east coast
right works with corrections long we
spent a long time to just sort of build
this relationship where we could have a
phone line from inside the provincial
jails And that partly involved I think
establishing this common background
understanding even if we're adversarial
in some level we're on all on the same
page about something and in co it was
clear it was public health like you know
Karen Hudson who was deputy minister of
justice at the time met with some of us.
It was Easter weekend. It was a Saturday
on the phone. There were a few people
meeting and deputy minister of justice,
community services and municipal affairs
was there and she said, "This is a time,
I know it sounds like a cliche, but at
the time I just wanted to write, this is
a time we all have to row together." She
was deputy minister of justice and made
things happen. So, I guess I'm just
saying I'm not going to throw anybody
out, but you've got to always work with
caution, I think, and care about whether
your values are still aligning. Yeah.
Yeah. It's a good question though.
Anything else?
>> Um, thank you. First of all, it's just
such a privilege to see the art of this
work and how it's all building towards
this initiative in many ways. I just
wanted to invite you to say more about
um epistmic injustice and the risks of
it through this particular model because
what I a little bit is
this process of narative justice or
justice spending time
>> but are there any other ways that you
envision through the the course or other
related initiatives that the people the
students for instance who will have
expertise right they have to seed that
to the actors that they're engaging with
how How do they guard against, you know,
reinforcing the fact that they're the
experts and so on?
>> Okay, a couple ex a couple responses.
It's a great question. It's so important
and it reminds me of something like a
hope for this practicum, which I didn't
mention uh but we've talked about it a
little bit and sort of said maybe we're
going to hold off. We're not going to do
it right at the beginning, but later
we're going to try for this, which is to
reserve a couple seats for community
members. And so that might be community
justice workers, might be people
affected, but but have a couple seats in
the course for community members so that
we're mixing that up. It was just hard
bureaucratically to do that right away,
but I love that like I'm so committed to
and don't want to forget because you get
all sort of bureaucratically encumbered.
The other thing is I think of my
co-chair with the East Coast, Renford
Frier, who some people here probably
have met because he's come in and talked
in the prison law class and stuff.
Ranford, my god, like he's so
charismatic and so full of deep
knowledge that people are just
intimidated by him like they love him,
but they're intimidated because he knows
so much. And I think being confronted
with people who have that deep knowledge
is the best way of undercutting any kind
of like let me tell you about the law.
And that happens every time when we take
the students into the Adelina and I have
done this come into the provincial jails
and it's this idea that the students are
going to be telling people but we're
always really careful to say it's never
going to be like you lecturing about
rights in jail like they have all topics
and people go around the tables and and
it's always really fun but what happens
is you know the students sort of say pop
and then the people are like that's not
how it works. It's like law on the books
versus law on the streets. And it
happens so actively and naturally. And
the students come away just realizing
that they've got to ask questions. Like
they really have to figure out what's
going on. It's very disorienting in a
beautiful way. And I assume that this we
want to create something like that here.
Yeah.
>> Yeah.
Yeah. Hi, Lisa.
>> You're like an Oscar winner hiding in
the back. I'll like
>> bring it together.
>> I just came from another venue
in Vancouver. a couple weeks ago where
we had 30 people sitting around to talk
about the 2% of the world that don't get
any societal presence including a lot of
folks that you were talking about today
and we came to a really long
conversation about the weaponiz
>> Oh yeah. So I'm interested in how you
think um that discussion or that
narrative that's in the world really not
just you know Canada how that narrative
might be something that is not that
weaponiz
>> yeah there's so much to sort of I mean I
only scratched the surface in this idea
of narrative justice but there's so many
there's such danger to the way that
stories and fixed you know ideas and
concepts can be mobilized for the most
sort of disastrous purposes and right
now we're in a context as you folks know
where an orientation to public even
people who work in public health are
asking themselves how can I rebrand what
I do to public safety so I can get grant
funding it's as simple as that and
people are actively doing this like in
droves and so this question of how we
understand public safety becomes very
like pragmatically important. Um, but
it's also important from that bigger
sort of social movement question of how
you shift how you shift people's hearts
in a way like people's hearts are full
of fear. So public safety is about I am
so I'm scared like and and public health
is more like this capacious let's do
something to all work together and I
know it sounds really simplistic but I
feel like some of that beautiful work
even that L Jones led right around
defunding the police it's very it's
concrete it's like here's what we can do
to build up actual public safety in ways
that's responsive to the priorities to
communities like what does safety mean
to you what is a good life to you? Is it
sort of living behind a little like all
the locks and chains or is it something
like creating good relationships with
your neighbors? And we're in the camp
here of the creating good relationships
with your neighbor curiosity about
people just reanimating that sense of
curiosity, excitement, beautiful some of
that stuff I think can be done through
storytelling like you know people sort
of expert there's experts in this stuff
called social stories. We have someone
on our board with East Co. Like I think
there are some strategic ways to do
that, but some of it is just I'm just I
guess speaking back to you. I be what do
you think? What do you think about that
coming out of that conversation? What
did you learn about that? I don't know.
>> That we've got a lot to learn.
>> Got a lot to learn. Um I'm sorry. You
know what I'm going to do? Because I
think this is a good segue. This is the
craziest thing I've ever done which
you're gonna love. Um, so I wanted to
end this with this song because it's
such a crazy way to end, but it's like,
you know, the end of the I'm closing out
the health justice seminar series for
2026, but you know, I'm partly just
wanted to say no more business as usual.
Let's do something a little bit
different. So, this is Tona Mills. You
can learn more about her on the East
Coast Prison Justice website's modest
memorial page, marking her recent death
from cancer. She died too young. So much
of her life was spent incarcerated. 10
years in federal prison, six of those in
segregation. Six of those in
segregation. Uh and another 13 in the
forensic mental health system. Tona's
name headlines a bill that Senator Kim
Page is trying to pass in the upper
chamber right now, which among other
things would require CSC to move people
with serious mental health conditions
from prison to hospital or community
settings, even better. And she was my
friend. So, I first met Tona in 1997,
although I didn't know it when I told
her story in a law school essay on
violations of the charter rights of a
set of so-called high-risisk, high needs
federally sentenced women placed in
prolonged four-point restraints at NOVA
institution and then isolated in Spring
Hill Prison for men. And then I met Tona
for real 20 years later. I was
introduced to her by Kim Pate in 2019.
We became friends in the fall, East
Coast, this past fall, East Coast Prison
Justice got a grant to bring Tona
together with m musician Simone Schmidt,
who is my new favorite person in the
world, uh to translate Tona's poetry and
other writing into a song cycle cycle.
So, as Tona lay dying, uh this is a few
weeks ago, about three, uh Simone played
this piece. I'm going to play for you.
I'll only play you like a minute and a
half. I promise it's not like a
10-minute song. uh played this piece for
Tona. It's one Simone had written a few
years ago and Tona said she liked it and
it's called Leaning Hard on my
peripheral vision. Uh it sums up I get
all teary but I'm going to make it sums
up uh what I would like to express about
deep listening community engagement
uh sorry uh affirming dignity uh where
it's been violated and affirming
knowledge which has been denied uh and
cultivating attentiveness not only to
what's right in front of us but to what
and who's at the margins uh on the way
to health justice. And if this doesn't
play, it's going to be like the most
embarrassing time in my whole life. Hold
on. There we go.
Leaning hard. I'm up the river of
vision.
Crawling on the edges of my mind.
Playing through the dragless
condition.
I can't divide.
I got you on my side.
The son with two tugs. He has gone. He
is not leaving.
You know, we must face this side to
>> That's Simone Schmidt, otherwise known
as Fiverr, who's an incredibly talented
person. So, thanks, guys. That's it for
us. Yeah. Bye.