Redevelopment Board Meeting - September 14, 2026

Welcome to the town of Arlington Red Board on September 14th. I'd like to call this meeting to order. My name is Ken Lao. I'm chair of the ARB. Uh, can the other members of what we introduce themselves? >> Shaina Corman Houston, Michelle Schwarzle, Vincent Bodwan, >> Steve. >> Thank you very much. And also we're joined by Claire Richik, director of planning to development and assistant director Sarah Suarez. Great. >> First on the agenda is to review the meeting minutes from August 10th, 2026. Do any of the board members have any changes to the minutes? Starting with Steve? >> None. Here. >> Thank you. >> I have a very minor one in item three, which was the discussion of the comprehensive plan short-term goals. And I'll let Claire get to the spot. So item three for item LU3 of the comprehensive plan there was a long discussion paragraph and in the middle it says it might be a good idea to start with a smaller property maybe with some sort of visioning competition and I think my intent was to say not property but like a smaller step. >> Okay, >> that's all. >> Thank you miss anything else. >> Michelle, >> no comments. >> Nothing. I have uh one uh small change in uh item number four uh the last paragraph. Uh let's see. Do I have the ball meeting up? >> Meeting minutes from August 10th. >> Excuse me one minute. Yeah, I'm a little uh September 10th. So, it is >> this is her one, isn't it? >> That's the memo from for the for the next. >> Okay. So that's section four. >> Section four. Um on the last paragraph uh on section four right before the updates. >> Mhm. >> Uh I'll I'll give you the thing here. >> Sure. >> But uh I just want to make clear um I want to say the chair noted that the committee has completed several Heights business district studies with was examining a number of available Heights retail commercial businesses and the number of people living within a 5 to 10 minute walking distance of the Heights. supporting local retail requires about 25 residents per uh within 5 to 10 minutes walking per foot of storefront based on industry planning standards. Uh we currently do meet this requirement in the heights on the on recent surveys. So if we want to encourage more businesses in the heights, we must also encourage more residential housing density to increase foot traffic supporting these these new businesses. The uh the community has also completed park a parking study and determined that there's sufficient parking to support the existing businesses. Um town survey has also included that people wanted more open space and walkable areas in the heights. One option is to create a revenue stream from parking meters to fund these upgrades similar to what the town has done in Arlington Center. These meters would also encourage turnover of parking spaces uh creating more foot traffic for these new businesses. The committee has also uh reached out to uh leasing agents, brokers, business owners, and property owners for their input. The chair said that the committee needs to create more incentives for owners to invest in their own property. >> A change. >> Um do I have a U motion to approve? I motion to approve as amended. >> Second. >> Thank you. Steve, >> yes. >> Vince, >> yes. >> Michelle, >> yes. >> Ash, >> yes. >> Yes. As amended. Thank you very much. Uh, second on the docket is uh public hearing for docket 309, no 3907, 6:35, Massav. This is a special permit hearing continued from July 20th. Um, would you introduce the project and would proponents we step up? >> So, uh, thank you. Um, this is an, uh, we have an update to the previous planning memo that was dated July 16th, 2026. Um, this is an application by Stonefield Engineering Design. There'll been a special permit. Um they are looking to um uh reconstruct I want to say well reconstruct um the a uh a unit at 635 uh Massav uh for a Chase uh bank. Um at your meeting on July 20th uh the board identified the following issues for the applicants to address. A long-term bicycle parking space is required. Um that has been indicated on the plans. There's still um some conversation about where that long-term uh bike uh storage will go. Uh but I believe they have some comments uh this evening to make on that. Uh total signage area must be reduced to come into compliance. The signage plan has definitely been updated. Um applicant should seek options for on-site greenery. Um no additional information was uh was provided about on-site greenery. However, there is very limited on-site um space uh uh at this site. Um applicant must provide additional architectural and masonry details about how the northwest corner will be filled in, how the front entryway will be made ADA compliant, including the transition from the ramp to the brick sidewalk into the sill of the entry door. Updated plans and elevations uh depict uh this uh the occupant should explore with the landlord whether lighting can be added. Um uh the applicant has elected to remove the exterior sponsors from the proposal. it was determined uh it would be challenging to install appropriate wiring. Um that is uh a brief summary of uh of the of the project and changes that were made since your last hearing and I will turn it over to the applicant I guess. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Good evening attorney John Leone here with Giovani Caesar. Um we have also Kevin Kelly, our architect on the phone. He's home with a bad cold but he's phoning in here. Yeah, >> that'd be fine. >> Yep. If there's any questions, if he can answer, he'll easily do that. Um, we've tried to address all of the concerns of the board from last time in our recent submission, our recent submission. Um, I'll just go over with what uh Mr. Rector has already said. The outside signage has been reduced to two uh within the size limits as dictated by the bylaws. There's going to be one in the front and one in the rear. No more signs on the side of the building. Um the ADA compliant front access ramp is detailed out. that's going to be redone and I believe it's going to be in a concrete um little 3x5 area in concrete that's going to go to match as best we can the surrounding the exterior sconce lightings have been removed there seemed to have been too much um installation and uh with bringing it throughout the ex entire exterior of the building because of the constru construction of the building just no way to run the wiring. Um, the on-site greenery, frankly, there's no space for any on-site greenery. The building takes up almost the entire premises. The little bit that is is available. We are proposing um to use part of the area. I've circulated some pictures this morning, which I hope you've all had a chance to see. district has them. We're we're proposing to put an exterior bike locker for um except for for lack of a better term. The we don't have one that has been settled on yet. They were going to see what the um would fit into the area where that we're proposing it for. There was an idea of putting the bike storage inside the building in a u frankly common space that met with trepidation by both the landlord and for maintenance purposes and liability. Just having a bike hanging out in the common area was not a good result. So what we're proposing to do for the long-term bike storage, this is a picture of the back of the building. the chase door to the rear. This is, if you're familiar with that parking lot, there's the um blue bikes. I'm standing next to the blue bikes here. So, what we have here at this case, we believe the building owns right up to here. Ah, thank you. The building owns right up to here somewhere. Maybe the edge of the grave or the edge of this concrete. um curving and running right along the face of the brick. We've located two or three different bike lockers that would fit in here that have totally in covered and they were protected from the elements and be lockable to keep the employees bike safe and secure during all weather. And this is the rest of the on-site greenery. Um, right now you can see it's just kind of weedies, bushes, and things. We'd probably just dress that up some as part of the project. Um, so I think if you have any questions, we gladly answer them, but that's where we're at right now. And we're kind of looking we're going to request if the board is fine with all of this maybe a conditional approval and have the final location and um container itself subject and allowable administratively by um Mictor and her team. >> Just to clarify the container, would the shrubs be taken out to fit the container or the container fits sort of over that grate? You know, it would sit right here. >> Well, we think right here. >> Mhm. >> Between these two windows. Yeah. >> Give us another shot. >> Sure. >> It's kind of a little left. It shows >> um >> Yeah. So, this one here. >> This gives you a better idea of the dimensions of this wall. Uh, I didn't get up there with the tape measure, but it runs all of that. So, we would put it right here, and it would be a permanent installation. And right now, this couldn't go under here because the fire escaped for upstairs. Hopefully, I'll never have to use it, but that flaps down and would eliminate that as a potential area. >> Thanks. >> Thank you. >> Welcome. Um, well, Michelle, since you started, why don't we uh go with you? >> Um, sure. I was the signage was fine by me from what I could tell, though I defer to the rest of the board on the super detailed review of the plans. The ADA accessible piece looked fine. So, I wanted to just understand a little more about the bike space. Um, is this one space or two? >> I think we are only required one bike, >> right? That was my understanding. In the memo, it said there were two required, but I my math suggested that um it was just one. So, >> one space. >> One space. But I think the container we're looking at has the capacity for two. >> Mhm. >> So, it's almost as wide as this table, say, and two bikes could go in, >> right? Yeah. >> Butt to butt. >> Great. Yeah. From my perspective, that would seem to be preferable to having the bike in that inner space. >> Yeah. Um and you know I would be comfortable with one bike but um you know we do have the cap the board has the ability to go down 20% given that this is right in the center is on a but a bus lane. Um so to me this looked fine. >> Thank you Michelle. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> Thank you for coming in. So first of all I I couldn't be present at the last meeting. Um, so I've gone back and watched the video and I I believe I've gotten up to speed. Um, and this is a question that I think would have been better to ask last time because it's kind of a general question, but can anyone either of you speak just from the perspective of Chase Bank of why they felt Arlington needed a new bank branch? Um, what it is about either our market or Chase's business strategy that made this a good fit. Um, so Giovanni Caesar, Stonefield Engineering. Uh, I'm not privy to kind of the real estate decisions that Chase makes. Um, but what I can say is that they've been looking at Arlington for a while. I believe there was actually a previous application nearby um, a few years ago that didn't move forward. Um, but it's a market that they've consistently kind of sought themselves in. And you know when it comes to you know proximity to different branches and um the clientele they felt like Arlington was a very um attractive kind of demographic that they wanted to kind of instill themselves in. Um I've been working on the Chase account you know personally for the last four or five plus years and they do a a very good job in terms of you know the multitude of tenants that we work for as a company. They care about their sites. They take care of their sites. Um they really don't let them go. um you know spoiled rotten for lack of better term. Uh especially with the different variety and scale of different sites. You know we've done anything from you know pure tenant fitouts where we're taking over a previous I believe this was a Caldwell Banker if I remember but um you know a similar tenant in that use and kind of sprucing things up to revitalize uh the tax base of the community all the way to full you know uh raise and rebuilds down in you know the kid uh main and whatnot. And I think one consistent uh point is that when it comes time for building inspection, when it comes time to kind of start engaging with the community, it's always been, you know, a positive foot forward. So I think um again without being able to speak to what financially drew Chase to this space, I think understanding that they want to put their best foot forward, they want to deliver a product that not only they can be proud of, but um the community can be proud of is, you know, ever. Thank you. I appreciate that background. Uh my other two questions are much more technical. So the rear door that's being infilled is what looks to me like a glass storefront and then behind it a sort of opaque partition about a foot and a half behind the glass. What I'm wondering is is that accessible for cleaning and is the glass transparent and are you going to end up with just a kind of a box full of spiderw webs that's going to be difficult to clean >> to the the infield door >> at the corner >> of the building >> to the chamered corner. >> Yes, that that's currently just a stairway that leads to some offices. The the plan is to infill that. Um so it appears to be contiguous with the rest of the building. It'll be floored over and made into usable office interior space. That's actually going to be, I believe, in the employee lounge area. So, Claire has a detail up on the screen, which is the leftmost detail there. And so, on the left side, if I understand correctly, is a storefront glass. On the right side is an opaque wall. And in between them, there's just a space that I'm wondering. I can't tell from the plans. Is that accessible in any way? Can you clean it? >> Yeah, Kevin's going to speak to that, I believe. >> Hello. >> Yes, I can hear you. Uh, hello board. This is Kevin Kelly with Core States Group. Unfortunately, I come down with a cold and was not able to meet uh there personally just to make sure nobody else got sick. In regards to that infill area, one, the glazing is going to be receiving a spandrel treatment. What this means is that it will be opaque and you'll not be able to see through from the exterior. Uh the wall that is going to be in there is going to have an access panel for cases of cleaning or uh make just making sure that there's any air flow as well. >> Okay. Thank Thank you for clarifying. So, it's opaque glass. That answers my question. Thank you. And my second question, again, kind of an architectural detail. So, I think we could potentially, depending on what the rest of the board thinks, be satisfied with the bike parking space in the storage shed in the back of the building. I will say that that is not exactly an aesthetic amenity that is going to be enhancing that space, which is otherwise quite a nice space. The the visitor center is right there. People sit on that lawn. So, just in terms of shopping for another place to put the bicycles, one thing I noticed is that on the floor plan, and we might be able to bring that up. So, yeah, right there there's a sort of a rear entry to the building. Then there's some steps up to a rear lobby for Chase. And in that rear lobby, there's a square area to the right of the little vestibule. And and it might be best if I come up and point that out. So we I believe John spoke on this earlier but one of our earlier proposals was to have bike parking within that common area and that has brought uh trepidation due to the fact that being in a common area there was maintenance issues as well as >> so where he's pointing to is if we're looking at the um overhead he's looking at the rear door that goes into the um area. There's appears to be like an office to the right of that rear door bumpout that you want to build. Um >> there's a space that's probably about 6 ft square to the right in within the lobby of the bank, but not really, as far as I can tell, being furnished in any way. So, I was just curious what what that space is used for and whether or not that might be an opportunity to uh find a bike storage space. >> Areas in the vestibules were floated before early on in the process. Uh but they were they were voted down uh due to the fact that not only was it uh public publicly uh due to the sorry they were voted down due to the fact that you had to constantly bring them upstairs and that they may cause damage to the glass if done over and over again. >> Refer to a spot within the branch itself to the right of the door. where you have the two um bucket chairs and little round table facing the rear branch door to the right of that near where it says out of scope inside the branch itself. What are you going to put in that spot? >> That spot is currently going to be vacant. But again, the reason why we did we did float the idea of putting bicycle parking there earlier, but the fact that the bicyclist would have to constantly bring their bike up and downstairs may cause a uh uh what's the word for it? Like if they were to trip on the stairs, for example, uh or they may cause damage to the storefront going in and out of the doors. >> And just a clarifying question, is there an existing change in elevation there that requires those steps? >> Yes, there is currently a change in elevation. The common area is about 14 in lower than the current uh area in the space. I'm not sure if you have an existing uh plan of what it showns, but even in the existing space, uh you'll be able to see steps that go down into that common area. >> Okay. Thank you. So, I think it might be best at this point if we just let the rest of the board members have a chance to talk and then we can come back to the question of bike parking. That's all for me. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Vince. Uh see >> uh I'm I am okay with the rear locker proposed >> and I would also be okay with administrative approval. >> Thank you, >> Shane. >> Um so I am also okay with the rear locker. I would also be okay with administrative approval. I did have um uh a couple of clarifying questions about the lighting. Um, so, so is there currently any lighting on the front of the building at all? Um, >> if I may, there's overhead can lightings. >> Yes, there's over there's overhead can lightings in the existing facade. >> Yep. And And will those remain? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yes. >> They'll be they'll be replaced. >> I'm I'm looking over here. That's um the >> owner of the building. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Um so so the um sconces that are being removed um those were lighting solely for the sign. Um and it's just lighting that was on the signage. >> No, the sconces that were removed were strictly aesthetic. >> Pretty excellent. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Great. Um and and so okay, great. Um All right. Uh that's fine. Um and then I guess my one other thought or question was at various um back to the greenery. At various different times there there have been um tall narrow um relatively small planters in front of the building. Um I don't know if you recall. >> Oh yeah. Um, and I'm wondering if if we're really trying to find any place for greenery, um, uh, if that might be an option. Um, >> that's would actually we'd have to get permission from the town because the town owns the sidewalk. >> Okay. >> Can't promise anything that the town won't let us do. >> All right. Um, uh, okay. That's all I have. >> Thank you. Um well I want I thank you for addressing our issues >> y >> and showing the details. Um I too um share the same u um belief that I think your outdoor storage area is fine based on the situation you have right now. >> I'm okay with that. Um and I'm okay what you have done so far. I'm also okay with an administrator approval not only for the bike that you're going to bike shelter, but I like you guys to um uh be understanding of the uh the front entry along uh Massav. >> Mhm. >> Um you probably are aware of, but if you don't, uh the town is planning to redo that sidewalk in the near future. >> Oh, good. >> Uh I'm not sure is it be done before your project's finished or after your project's finished. But your notes say it's going to match the uh what's out there. >> What's out there is going to be different. It's going to be stamped concrete. It's not going to be work. So I would like you to uh I like to approve this detail uh with administrative approval so that you will coordinate the same detail that the town's going to use for the stamp concrete or you wait until they do theirs and then you you can mimic them. But it has to be coordinated. I don't want it to uh one to uh go out the other. So So you you acknowledge what's going on there. Okay. >> And then I'm not sure where the town's going to stop their work cuz you actually got like a foot sliver in front of your entry area. Okay. Are they going to stop where the town property stops? >> Mhm. >> Or they going to go to the building? I don't know. Well, we could coordinate with >> but I'm hoping you guys would coordinate with the engineering department and with with uh planning department here and I'm okay with the administrative approval on that one too. Okay. So, those are the two administrative approvals I like to get there. One is the uh the type of bike enclosure you're going to have and the other one is the detail for the threshold along the the entry area along Massab. Um, Vince does bring up a quick point about um um I guess that's short this little alco you got in there. Uh but you guys uh said that you're going to have an access panel. So So you actually have it be able to get in there and clean it if need to be. And you have um I'm assuming it's going to be some sort of vented access up and lower so it would vent properly >> so it doesn't sweat inside. Um, I trust your architect would do that, right? And my other suggestion is that grill you have in the back, >> I would keep the bike enclosure away from that. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Not putting over it. I would put on the side of it. Okay. Cuz that is the intake for I'm assuming the boiler room down stairs in the basement. >> Mhm. >> So, don't block up the the building's fresh air intake. >> Got it. >> So, um, that's all I have to say. Um, is there anything uh else the um the board will say? I will open up to the public. Okay. Uh, does the public have anything uh to discuss about this? Yes, Betty. >> Should I just talk from here? >> Uh, nope. Um, no. I I want you to come up so that um people at home could also hear what you have to say. >> I I apologize. Hi, Susan Stamps at 39 Grafton Street and I'm here for the tree committee but not speaking for the tree committee. Um, and I haven't been here for a long time. It's nice to be back. I just had one comment about the the greenery um that Miss Corman Houston mentioned. I agree with her. I don't I believe that um our town planner mentioned that there have been gas that there are gas leaks in the area and in fact there there are two trees on that block. Well, one isn't there anymore because it died from gas leaks and it's gone. But the tree well is clearly there. Um, and I can assure you the tree department's not going to be planting another one until somehow National Grid figures out how to stop the gas leaks in Arlington Center. There's another tree at on the same block right at the corner of the entrance into the parking lot. And it's well, I think it's basically dead now. So, it's going to have to come out. So that means that if um these nice folks at Chase Bank don't add anything to that sidewalk, it's going to be pretty bleak and stark. And I don't think that's what we want right in our town center. And what I would suggest is maybe if they could install some nice big planters like they we have on Broadway Plaza that have all kinds of plantings in them and they're cheerful and fun and um they would just add a lot of pizzazz to that area which really needs a facelift as far as what it looks like. So that's my comment. >> Thank you. >> Thanks. Anybody else like to uh make uh any public comments on this? Seeing none, I close public comment and return it back to the board. Is there anything else or a motion from the board? >> I would say I support having a planter some planters there. Um, you also had mentioned in the back that part of the plan might be to improve those bushes there and I'd love to see that as well. Um, I understand if my board fellow board members don't feel that that's an important condition, but I put that out there. So, um, so they would, uh, if I understand, uh, approval would be needed from the town, uh, to put planters. maybe we put in as a condition to reach out to the to approach the town um about the feasibility of of doing that um of of putting >> my understanding is the town was going to u try to have uh remediate the gas leak and when they when they are repaving the sidewalks part of u landscape caping is part of that uh design and the true the two missing tree grates was part of that design. >> Okay. >> I believe okay. Um I didn't you know it's they work in this kind of >> Yes. >> off the side somewhere and you don't you don't they don't really share everything with us clearly. >> I just knew that they were not doing the >> uh they're putting in new uh sidewalks in and uh they're they're addressing uh the tree grates and and and the trees. Yeah. >> So, u I personally feel like it's um it's a lot a lot of ask for a um um for a business owner to u put um tree grates or or um tree boxes on on on public land. Um they I'm sure they'll be good tenants and uh good citizens and they would work with the town if if they can do something they would but to make it a condition of of approval project I feel uncomfortable doing that. >> Steve >> um question probably for staff through you Mr. Chair um who paid for and installed the uh planters in Broadway Plaza. >> That's a good question Steve. So it's my understanding that those planters were purchased and are maintained using uh proceeds from the parking benefits >> parking benefits district. Okay. Thank you. >> So the town >> Yeah. I I think there because of the uh pending work um just as as as the chair said, you don't want to design a transition only to have the ch the town swap out a sidewalk. Um, I think the same thing applies for um, you know, for installing planters. I agree they would, you know, they would be an aesthetic improvement, but I think uh, the parking the the PBD is is the right way to fund that. >> Thank you, Steve. Anybody else? >> I'm happy with that. >> From my point of view, we can let this let let a property be what it is. This is not a property that's going to contribute to the green space. It's doing something else. I think that's fine. >> Thank you, Vince. Do we have a motion then? >> I move to approve docket 3907 uh 365 Massav with the conditions that uh that um that they coordinate details of the threshold um with the town. um uh particularly with relation to upcoming work that the town may be doing. Um and that the exact type and location of um bike and bike enclosure be approved via administrative approval. Um were there other conditions that I think there were other conditions recommended. That's the only two I I I know of now. I don't know of any other. >> I don't recall any others. >> Okay. So So that's what I move. >> Thank you. >> Uh can I have a second, please? >> Second. >> Uh Steve, >> yes. >> Vince, >> yes. >> Michelle, >> yes. >> Jan, >> yes. >> Um yes, myself. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. Our next agenda item is presentation of design uh development design development development design guidelines. Claire, can you introduce the consultants please? >> Sure. >> Great. Thank you. um development design guidelines. Um this project is funded by a 2022 annual town meeting appropriation. Uh and uh through this project, we aim to enhance and streamline the development of mixed use and commercial spaces along the town's main corridors. Um we are building upon the town's existing 2015 design standards. Uh the new document will guide the development of new construction and significant renovation. Um final product we're hoping will convey the town's design intent through a mix of text, photographs, illustrative 3D perspective drawings. Additionally, uh the consultant will be putting together a condensed pocket guide version of the document uh for quick reference. So we have been working with overunder, the overunder group. Um we have been meeting uh uh with them regularly and hosted a sitewalk uh through Arlington a few weeks ago. Um they are here tonight to go over uh their uh first deliverable which is an existing conditions presentation and memo and we're hoping that uh this presentation will uh engender some good discussion with the board. Um and I think that's it. Take it away. Would you like to introduce your team? Sure. >> Thank you. Um good evening. My name is Can you hear me? >> Y >> can you speak to the mic still? >> I'll do my best. My name is Ram Saki. I am a principal at OverUnder. I'm here with um Anna McDonald and Rebecca Yen. Uh part of the team that's working on this project. Uh OverUnder um in addition to uh having a funny name is um an architecture, urban design, and graphic design company. We do a little bit of all of that. And we like to think um that makes us well suited for design guidelines because we work at a very large scale thinking about planning. We work at the scale of the building uh thinking about how buildings work and the logics uh of what a building needs uh from a development point of view, from a use point of view. um and then how to make that legible to various audiences um through graphic design. So we've done similar work in Cambridge um uh in other cities and towns um near and far. We've we've done similar work uh internationally. So we're delighted to be working here with you in in Arlington. Um I I you've seen the the what what what we submitted. It's it's we've put draft on it um to make sure that we uh uh are able to hear from you and get your uh your feedback and incorporate that feedback in in the final. So in the spirit of that, you know, we hope to have a conversation today. Um if there are sort of glaring things we've missed or gotten wrong, please let us know and we'll incorporate it into this um uh uh part of our um overall deliverables. If you go to the next slide, please. So we sort of broke it into three and and I'll breeze through the the the first few but um you know there are kind of three scales uh or ways to think about um design development or or or the the the the site if you will. Um one is sort of looking at an overall town context. The other is sort of as a collection of neighborhoods along that corridor. And then finally to think about it as a continuous corridor which is sort of Massav from I don't know which direction you're heading from from the heights to um to East Arlington and vice versa of course. Um next please. Um, so a lot of this is I don't think we unless you really want to. I I want to breeze through this part because this is us showing you that we've done our homework and and you you know you know this this town better than we do. But uh we we looked at sort of the overall land use and zoning trying to get a sense of where it is. And you can see quite you know from this initial uh drawing quite clearly that that corridor is already mixed use right. It's got it's got commercial, it's got industrial, it's got residential, it's got some that are actually mixed use, but but you can see it's sort of happening. And we kind of think of that Massav with the the um Broadway spur as sort of a the fork that that is our our site. Um and if you you can see through kind of from its kind of origins um a road is developed from Cambridge to conquered uh and un um surprisingly along a series of waterways right because they started to uh supply the energy that allowed mills etc. And and you can see if you go to the next one, you can see slowly over time the development. All those dots represent buildings obviously in the in in its evolution. And by the time you get to uh 1923, you've got a a town. Um and it's really that is the spine of the town. Um so we then sort of tried to understand the overlays that you have have uh offered uh and sort of understanding what the difference is between uh one and the other where they can uh be placed and what you can do in each of them. So basically, as we understand it, a a four uh sorry, a threetory height uh at in the NMF overlay and then a four story height um in in the MBF MF uh overlay. Um and then there are a series of incentives that would allow you to to go higher. Um five uh on Broadway. I think it's always Broadway is always five. And then but there are sort of you have ground flooror retail for example um uh you can get a sixth floor on Massav uh without a uh setback. So sort of keeping this existing street wall or adding affordable units uh would also allow you uh six six stories um whereas green building standards would allow you five. looking overall, you know, again, I I think it's best to just go go through these rather quickly. Looking at residential, we looked at a series of things, residential density, uh uh uh the the overall heights, the number of stories, and you can see broadly it's two to threetory buildings, sometimes one story, and sometimes quite quite taller. Um the other thing that I think is quite interesting and is um related to to this issue is the the topography. The topography varies widely and that will have an influence on the perceived height of buildings, right? So even though it might be a two-story building, if it's on a on high ground, it's going to read as a much taller building. And inversely, uh, the Artemis, I think, is a great example, uh, of of a five or six story building that actually barely registers from from Mass because of the decline. Um, and then sort of looking at, you know, historically significant districts, landmarks, um, understanding the overall the sort of date of when buildings were constructed. you have quite uh a number of 20th century buildings obviously as most towns do. Um and surprisingly not that many buildings built in the 21st century which is sort of an interesting which is interesting right and and if this you know is to come through that may change assuming the economic conditions are are available. Um, so how you do that and what what you do is going to be really uh important because it's it's going to shape the next generation of of architecture. Um, then sort of drilling down and looking at each neighborhood uh a little more closely. Um, again, it's almost zoomed in a lot of the same the same drawings that that are zoomed in. Uh but also starting to look at things like relative parcel size, density, um uh um uh the year built here, you can see more clearly number of stories as well. The one I' I'd like to kind of um well, we've done this for all three for Arlington Heights, Arlington Center. Sorry, you can you can just I'm clicking, but I'm having no effect on on what you're seeing. >> I'm sorry. Um, the one I'd really like to look at is uh slide. Yeah, it's 20, which is hard for you to see, but it's it's it's we're looking at lot frontage. So, what we mean by that is how much on Massav andor uh Broadway um how much that parcel how many feet that parcel takes on on the on the main street. Um, and sometimes it's quite a a lot, you know, over 200 ft, but usually it's not. Usually it's between 50 and 100. And yet you have something in all three of these areas that read fairly consistently. And I think that's kind of interesting. Um if if you can go to the next slide for example even though uh most of the well certainly the top two those are individual parcels many of those there is a kind of rhythm right from from one uh building from one owners from one architect to to the next and probably done without design guidelines but um maybe that's something to think about is as we're we're doing our our our guidines Um if you can go to the next slide looking at these just in photographs and looking at the relative uh heights uh of the the different areas um whether um it's Arlington Heights which is by and large one and two story there are a few um three stories and and even more and then obviously the the um the residential home uh which is significantly taller. other and then just one to point out is the bottom middle one which is you know two and a threetory building there. >> Okay, >> that is sitting on higher ground. So that reads like a fivetory building um already. Uh similar study or or observations for of Arlington Center. Some are so tall they don't even make the frame of the photograph. But you can also see sort of a lot of uh in a sense your sort of grandest buildings and and and your most significant architecturally are for the most part in in Arlington Center. Whereas um East Arlington has a few gems, it also has a really clear sort of pattern of of um low-lying resident uh sorry lowlying uh retail on the main streets and then uh sort of perpendicular to that is a series of of residential um buildings typically triple deckers. Um this slide 25 is helpful um in sort of understanding the overall we we took a series of of um section cuts through these neighborhoods starting and at the heights and then and moving down um that are sort of looking very widely. We always pointing out where Mass AB is just to give you a a sense of things. The the buildings are colored by their use. So the retail in the middle, um the uh residential is is yellow. Um and then um the brown. >> Okay. So much taller uh uh residential uh and the purple is um industrial. So um you can see that mass the the building heights changer. So what's colored is in the section cut and then what's behind it is um you know the buildings behind it. So you can see that the depending on where you cut you can get a very wildly uh different read of what that height is. In other words, you have a super eclectic town um uh with a lot of different heights um and and that continues in Arlington Center. If you can go to the next slide, please. um as well as East Arlington, although East Arlington in general is is a real. We then zoomed in on on each of these and sort of took a what we thought was pretty emblematic or simp, you know, a good sample cut of the street at at a at a at a sort of uh tighter frame. um uh sort of understanding how large the vehicular uh right ofway is, the width of the sidewalks in relationship to the buildings, what the building how tall the buildings were, whether or not there were um uh awnings and or um uh uh vegetation uh in that public ground. Uh and then you if you go to Arlington Center, it's actually significantly wider. Not just the the right of way, but also the public realm. Um there's a fantastic moment. Um where the Starbucks is where the the building really recedes from from the the street edge and offers this this lovely kind of moment of an urban, you know, plaza. And then uh in East Arlington you have something uh that's much tighter sort of much smaller scale um that that we find interesting. So then the the the next way of kind of looking at it is is is is a as a piece, right? You know, we've broken each of those up, but what are the ways to, you know, should we be thinking about it as as a sort of a single um choreography of of buildings or or uh moments in in in New Town? Um I won't go through the building types and the building heights but it is quite again quite eclectic quite varied which we think is fantastic. We think all good towns and cities are quite um varied. Well, I can think of some exceptions, but but but variety is pretty fantastic and and allows you, I think, as you move forward to sort of identify some of the things you like uh in the buildings uh in your town, but also al other things you've seen, whether for nearby or further a field, uh and how to kind of incorporate some of those priorities and values into the the shape of of the the development. uh moving forward. Um again, uh the massings are are varied. Um I I see that as a as as uh something that can be quite positive. Um for me, it's more most important how buildings relate to the street and to the the sidewalk. uh do they make it easier for people to walk uh next to them uh or or or do they make it more more difficult to to do so? Um uh one of the things that we've kind of identified um and found quite interesting is that the sort of some of the and again this is very subjective but some of the buildings that we were most drawn to um had a very kind of distinct rhythm, right? uh whether it was sort of a articulation of the bass structure or uh sort of a a pattern that repeats as as it moves across the way. In other words, you can you can offer the viewer uh sort of an understanding and a breaking down of that building. Even if it's a very long facade like Regent uh the Regent Theater one for example, it it's on first glance it's it's the same thing over and over again, but because it's broken down into these bays that sort of relate to a more human scale. Um and and there's enough variety uh within each of the those those bays. Um there's a depth of shadow. Uh the the the window openings are are deep enough to to allow for that. there's sort of a repetition, the clear structure that that that sort of introduces uh each each um note. Um and and then sort of uh the some of the and I'll show you later some of the beautiful brick work on that building is really quite lovely. But that happens in other places as well, right? You you see it um along Massav and on in sort of a lower lower heights. Um, you see it in in on Broadway with some of the newer construction and even some of the modernist 1960s uh work. Um, in terms of materials historically, obviously uh there's a lot of brick uh some of which has been reerezed more recently. Um, for my money, that that entrance to the Regent Theater where the the the the um the the the return is not uh uh um at a at an at perpendicular to the street, but slightly angled. And then the brick kind of opens slightly, almost like a zipper. You can see it in the that corner. It's just a lovely It's a beautiful little detail. just super subtle in something that's otherwise a very kind of repetitive um um building. And then I think even without the awning that says entrance, you would know that that's sort of where you meant to to go. Um and then the the Artemis I think is quite an interesting you know uh use of much more um uh uh uh contemporary materials sort of industrial materials uh within a sort of old mill uh um area um and I sort of alluded to this earlier the as I as I see it it's the the contribution of um architecture uh to the public realm that is that is most important for for the design of development guidelines. It could be we all have our penchant for different moments in architectural history. I think they're all valid. Um, I think most importantly, how does the does the architecture, regardless of architectural language or style, how does it relate to its surroundings? Um, does it help is is there are there moments of uh continuity uh along the street edge? Are there places uh to stop and and pause? Uh what is the that that relationship? I think that for my money and usually when we sort of do this sort of work there's a lot of attention paid to the first floor and the second floor and then as we move up the building it there are sort of fewer rules if you will because it's it's important but it's not as important as where humans come into contact and then I thought I I we just end with by by showing some precedents of of recent projects um that are about the same scale uh in the sort of greater uh Boston area along corridors um not entirely dissimilar to to your own. So these first two are on um in in in uh uh on Beacon Street in in in Brooklyn in Brighton, sorry. Um, and they're actually uh right across the street from each other, >> but both of them sort of represent in two very very different ways some of the things that we think are successful in in contemporary architecture. And I I would, you know, I am a huge critic of a lot of what gets built. Um and and um I would want the best for for your for your community like uh because I think it's important. But I'm showing these as a way to sort of elicit responses from from you could hate it, you could love it, that's fine. We'd love to hear from you. Here are some of the things I think are are interesting about these two buildings. One is they're they're fairly long buildings along the the main street. Uh but they break down that length in interesting ways or at least in two very different ways. Uh the top building sort of creates just a very thin reveal and change of material and and makes it all of a sudden read like it's it's two two separate buildings when it's in fact it's one. Um the lower building uh is less symmetrical, but the as it turns a fairly major corner, it gets sort of a lot more crinkly. Whereas the the rest of the the main facade is sort of the same kind of stepped window placement, but essentially the same. One of the things I really like about both of these buildings is um an exaggeration of the depth of the surface. So, one of the things with contemporary architecture and construction is we don't build the way we used to. Um we don't have to and in fact we can't because we it's too expensive. What I mean by all of that is, you know, in a building, in an older building, you might have a foot to two feet of of wall, right? And and what that did uh was allow you to have openings that were quite deep. And those those deep openings created shadow as the across the day. is as the sun moved across your building, you have different the building changes in in its personality uh and and its appearance. Um, today you can lose all of that because we don't need that depth uh on in construction. It's actually quite quite a shallow section today because it's it's easier, it's cheaper to to to do it that way. Both of these buildings sort of make an effort to create that depth. um in the uh lower one. You can see here on this bottom corner the window openings punch out into out of the building and that adds a few more inches um on that on each of those window apertures and you get shadows on the inside of the window but you also get shadows below the window. Right? So you can see uh you can see what I'm talking about here, but you can also see it on that that and that's Oh, thank you. Neat. >> So like this, for example, the shadow there and then the opposite is happening in this one, right? You have these sort of uh and the use of wood to accentuate it, but receding slightly from from that uh rather monotonous facade um with a very different um material, much warmer material. Uh and then on on occasion, you'll see uh you know, they peel away completely and and have balconies. So, I think these buildings are are really worth discussing uh or getting reactions from for those two reasons. Uh a little closer here along Ring Avenue, the the top one is um a new development in in Cambridge that is threetory along Ring Avenue. you've got quite a lot of retail. Um, and the openings are done through these sort of deep uh recesses that are are social spaces, balconies, balconies. And then the back of the building is much more colorful type. Um, in East Boston, you have uh this building that has a similar strategy, but maybe different geometries um peeling away at certain points to to give you some of that depth. Again, these are pretty commonplace materials today. They they make a lot of sense um uh and if used wisely can contribute to to to the overall public. Uh and then the final set is is a building uh in Cambridge is it's actually an entire block uh but it varies in scale so much uh sorry in in detail so much in two different uh types of brick with different uh coursing uh a corner that sort of does the same uh almost zigzag that we saw on the building in in in uh Brooklyn and then where humans come into contact with the building for example like the door front store uh front doors. Uh it's a much warmer set of materials that are um uh really quite lovely. So that's that's what we have to offer today and and really in the spirit I hope of of a discussion. We'd love to hear from you. What are your hopes for for this uh for your corridor? What are your fears, your concerns? Um, how are how best can we package uh the final um um uh uh deliverable in a way that is easy for the general public to digest, but equally importantly for you as a board and for town staff to help architects and the developers and their designers to understand what it is you're looking for in your Thank you very much. >> Uh let me start off with uh Steve. Do you have any comments? >> Yeah. Oh yeah. Um thank you. I I enjoyed uh looking through the through the uh through the through the uh document. Um so I think most of my feedback is going to be a little on the more on the specific side. Um I but I we'll start with a general question. So one of the one of the challenges I mean there is like you said there are a variety of different lot sizes, shapes etc. And one of the and there are you know some of those dimensional aspects create a lot of constraints on what something what a what a parcel can be used for. Um I'm while I know this is you know supposed to be design guidelines for people who were considering you know redevelopment projects but part of part of me wants to also you know take something away from this is in these are some issues that you know the we as a board or as a community need to address that aren't necessarily you know you you can't fix it in design guidelines. you can't fix a 50 a 45 ft deep lot with design guidelines. Um but anyway, uh I'll go I'll go through the go through a couple of things. Uh so, uh can you bring up page 10? >> Yes. Yep. Okay. So, the uh first uh map on the first gradient map is right. It's the gradient is keyed as density. And I was wondering if you could uh is that dwellings per acre or some other metric? >> Yeah, speak to that. I think that's units per perc. >> Units per parcel. Okay. Um because in some context the word density can be some sort of a loaded term. Um if you could say units per parcel um just to make as a you know just to be be clear about it. Um you know and I think the in some of this the parts of this section there uh the word dense and density gets used a lot where for me um the areas you're refer referred to the dark red uh read more naturally as sort of walkable or compact. Um so I'm thinking if you know a little bit of little bit of changing in wording there. Um, it's so on page 20. So th those are the frontage maps. Um, I'd ask you to to just label them with the three areas of town that they refer to. Um, and I'll also make a plug to consider lot depth as well. So, for example, there's uh in the photos of Arlington of East Arlington Capital Square. Uh, there are some night there's a nice shot of Town Tavern and uh the, you know, the block with Thrive Juice Cafe and etc. which are those are some of the 45 and 50 foot deep lots. um you know so that also is sort of going to you know is going to have a big impact on what happens to those properties. Um some other existing conditions you might want to look at. Uh one is what's conforming to parking and what does not because our early 20th century commercial buildings were built before we adopted parking minimums for um you know sometime in the 1950s. So, like capital the capital theater building, if you were to build it under today's regulations, it would need 300 parking spaces. That cute little hardware store in the Heights, you know, um the red one, yeah, if you built it today, it would need something like 13 and the lot doesn't have enough square feet for 13. Uh and one of the things that we often get beat up about is, well, if something gets redeveloped, well, there is a loss of commercial space. Well, yeah, because the old building went out to the property line in four directions and now we've prioritized parking. So, you've got to put the parking spaces and then fit the building around it. Um, I I think that's, you know, that's something I would like to see at least for public awareness. Um and finally the one of the things that we have or not necessarily finally um one of the things that we've also tried to do is to encourage more walkable environments along the corridors. Um the that was sort of uh one of the significant motivations behind the MBTA community's multif family um overlays is you know to basically put people where they could walk to stuff. So, um, if it wouldn't be too difficult to to just like highlight areas of walkability because that's something I think we see is important going forward. Um, so, uh, pages 25 through 27. Yes. Although you sort of explained what the different colors meant, uh, having a color key would be would be brilliant. Uh, page 32. So, I think that I I will make a plug to also consider um Bates Road and River Street uh as a minor arterial. So, that's kind of over at East Arlington, but it's a straight shot into West Medford and it, you know, it's it's a it's a roadway boundary that has a clear connection across towns. And for page 39 to 41, um I would like to it would be great to see labels showing where approximately those were uh those were the the the pre the other presidents were taken. And I will I will give uh my fellow members of the board time to yap. >> Thank you, Steve. We can always come back too. Uh, Vince, >> thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming in for this presentation, which is exciting, and I look forward to seeing this continue. Um, so like Steve, I wrote down some observations, possibly very long-winded. Please bear with me. Um, so you've pointed out that there's a strong diversity of building types and styles in Arlington. I think another way to say that is there is no one Arlington style. And um it would be artificial probably to try to impose a single design aesthetic. And even I would say the question of good versus bad design is something that reasonable people can disagree about. Um which is not to say there's no such thing as good design. It's just that I hope that guide design guidelines will be drafted with the mindset that it's not an easy thing to legislate. Um, and and also with that in mind, I'd like to see you give a priority, if possible, to things that relate to real public benefits rather than kind of things that are just matters of opinion. Um, a matter of opinion might be the color of a building or material, whereas something with a real public benefit is something that makes it easier to walk from place to place um or more pleasant. provides shade, um something that might promote commerce, business, um people socializing, um or preventing things that have a negative impact, uh noise or or things like that. So, you know, to the extent possible, tying guidelines to real things that real benefits. Um, I'm curious to see if the guidelines will provide recommendations at different scales in a kind of Christopher Alexander pattern language kind of way. I would imagine that you might have some guidelines that would be about um the urban scale, how a building relates to its surroundings. Some guidelines might be at like a building component scale where you're just talking about the building entry. Here's here's some great building entries. And then you might have some architectural details like here's a great light fixture or something like that. Not sure if you get that specific, but I think it'd be interesting to see you provide recommendations at different scales. Um, you talked some about building size. I do think design guidelines like I would really want them to be sensitive to building size. A big building, we need to be much more rigorous about the design. It's a big risk for the town. It could really impact a neighborhood. The potential downside is is greater. For small buildings, I think we want to allow more flexibility. So to the extent that the design guidelines can have some sensitivity, scale would be interesting. Um, and then the other side of that which you talked about is when you do have larger buildings, needing to break them down, needing to be attent attentive to having like as you walk along the building a finer grain, maybe different uses, different storefronts. So given what you've talked about, I think you'll keep that in mind. Um and and the last thing I think would be do as be as specific as possible about certain things that we just do or don't want. Um rather than you know I think concepts like rhythm and and um order and so forth are very important. But let's just also be very specific about a few things that you know, for example, we know that as a board we try to uh avoid projects with exterior wall caps like vents, dryer vents and things that come out onto the facade. Let's put that in there. Let's talk about, you know, no blank walls facing a public way. We want some windows. We want real windows that you can see through. um limiting the extent to which things like parking and garage doors take up uh frontage. Um addressing how trash and recycling and building utilities get incorporated. You know, do we want a policy on things like transformers and gas meters and things like that? Um and then maybe there are things that we do want to see like entry canopies, things that provide shade, planters, um greenery. So, let's just try to be as explicit as possible about those. Um, that's all that I've got. Thank you. It looks really good so far and I'm excited to see how it turns out. >> Thank you, Vince. >> Michelle. >> Great. >> Um, hi. So, I'm relatively new to this process. I wasn't around, you know, in the public space for the town meeting that um brought this forth. So, I came to this not fully understanding what to expect. Um and the what came to my mind initially first of all um I I echo anywhere you can label um and say what they are that would be really great like just just comb through the slides and and add a key. Um but then the other thing that came to my mind is I love all these precedents. This would look amazing but I don't think you can build almost any of them in Arlington. Um, so I guess my question was, uh, is there a way to link this to the zoning code a little bit? Like, you know, these are examples of what could be built in these districts or, you know, and if that's not what this is meant to do, then I could be wrong there. But um you know it just felt like there might be it might if I were coming into Arlington and I was wanted to build something I'd love to pick up a document and say okay if I'm in the R2 district these are kind of some options you know and I and you you kind of allude to it with all the different options that exist. Um and maybe that'll be something that comes in a next deliverable. Um, but just thought you should keep that in mind. Um, because it's only as useful as what is actually allowed to be built. Um, and then along those lines, we have so many little tiny storefronts. I was curious if there was a place in here, this would be a lot of work, so it may not be something we can pay for, but to quantify, you know, how you have lot frontage, but how big is the business frontage? How big are we do we usually how these little businesses, how how much space do they usually have? um you know and your team is probably trying to make some of the spaces bigger um for businesses but as an existing condition it might be helpful to know how much space a business usually has. Those are my thoughts. >> Thank you Michelle Shannon. >> Um so so thank you. I think this is a um amazing start on the work and um and I think my colleagues have raised many of the things I was thinking about. Um in the vein of labels um on the historic maps I those were great maps. They were very fun. Uh it may it may seem obvious, but if you could call out uh street names because the street names have changed. Um when folks are orienting themselves, it it um will be helpful to say, "Oh, that yeah, that really is massive." Even though it says it's something else. Um >> that's right. That's right. Um, so, um, I was wondering if, let's see if I still on the right page. If you could go to, um, I don't know, page 28 or, um, or so, um, one of one of the street section pages where you where you break Yeah, that's a good one. Any of these. Could you could you talk to me a little bit more about what's going on here and and um and what you're um what you're trying to uh tell us when you when you give us this um like I I I understand what I'm seeing but but tell me what you were doing when you developed this. >> So for for us these these are useful as a sort of in my the way I see urban design sorry the the the way I see urban design I mean uh very well-known sort of foundational um figure in the field Gell called it the space between buildings um I like that I think it's Um the entire surface that you can see or touch as a human is the public realm, right? Um so uh that to me means the street, the sidewalk, the park, the plaza, but also the building facade, the glass that you can look into or the blank wall that you can't see past the the what juts out and offers a little bit of uh protection from the sun or from inclement weather. uh the overall height of the building, whether or not it pulls back from the street, all of that surface, not so much what happens behind it, but that that surface to me is the the public realm. And that's um that's what we ought to be preoccupied with at this level in this in uh you know, within this sort of discussion. Um does that make is that helpful or is that >> even worse? No, no, it does because um uh what I have been circling around in my head and what um uh my fellow board members have all I think touched on is that um is is that these design one of the values for me of these design guidelines would would be guidelines that that both help with aesthetic you know, help a developer coming in think about aesthetics. But but um but for me more we have values about how we want space to be used or we have goals about how we want space to be used and and uh the design advances that, right? and and um so so how do we um how do we get the design guidelines to to do that? And and I think the space um this this use of space, the space diagram resonated with me because if I um if I were a developer coming in, I might want to understand what is the space um and how is the space currently used um and and what are ways is um physically like what what are the square, you know, what are the feet that are available um and and how might I interact with that? How might my my development interact with that in order to advance the do design goals? Um you know, are all of the buildings sitting back and is that not really what what we want happening anymore or I don't know. Um so that was when I saw this I said you know um that that was that was what I thought of immediately was how how can this um how can this be worked in. So uh that was my major thought. >> Thank you Sean. Um thank you for this. This is very helpful. I think put evvoked a lot of thought and um I also want to make an offer to you guys. >> We have a a um a SketchUp model of Massav that runs from Cambridge all the way to Lexington along uh Massav and Broadway that we can offer you. I'm not saying it's most accurate, but it's a way of understanding some massing. Okay. And just talk to Claire or Sarah and they can do that. Um, and you guys can play with that and if that's helpful. >> Thank you. It it it is we we have we we got it. >> So, they must have known we were going to offer. >> Okay. >> So, take this and do something with it. >> But, but it's is great. I mean, and I I would say um these are useful and the the model is useful because ultimately the next time we see you, we're going to sort of offer possibilities of what right what your overlays give you. >> Okay. >> Uh on those existing models. >> Um but I want to take a a bigger step. Okay. And you had designated three source sections along this quarter. you think is uh this is what you're looking at the heights u onto the center and east right um I suppose there should be one more area you look at which is the infill between all those different centers they have their own life and their own and that's going to follow sort of rhythm along this corner here it's not going to be one to next to the next going to be some sort of residential stretch or some sort of park stretch or whatever, you want to look at those edges and see what the space you can make. >> It's a very good point. And in fact, if I understand correctly, a lot of the overlays lie within those edges. >> So, yeah, >> but I just wanted to say maybe you should look at the walk. That's all those edges. Um when you look also at the uh the history could you also maybe look back and show a little bit more of the history right now the history of the zoning is all this patchwork of all sorts of zoning issues right I personally believe that's what killed all the 20th century buildings in this area but if you look at the history of it you got to know a little bit about the history of this quarter quarter way back in the day. I think before my time, I believe Massad used to be the auto there were automotive shops up and down Massad that had a different character to it. Then later on uh you know some of the working-class uh people moved in. There was like pizza shops everywhere in every single corner and you don't it's very hard to find a a good pizza shop now. There's a few but that's also changed. Okay. So with that all with all that said, right? We have you have we have to come up with something saying what do we want? Uh what's our vision for these areas? I want to clearly state what we're trying to do here in those areas. Uh and then you can start looking at design criterias to curtail to that. I mean Steve alluded to it. um you know, we're looking at walkable, livable um spaces. That's fine. But let's make that a a uh a u a statement of that's what we're that's what we're looking at. We acknowledge that. That's what we're trying to achieve. >> Yeah. Um, and then from there, um, I like what you said about the rhythm and, uh, context and unflattening the um, um, the these facades that face these public realms. Um, I think we want to and maybe that's your next step. Okay, so maybe I'm talking beforehand. Okay. But what are good examples of that? What what's good example creating that datam separates the lower ground floor and the upper floor? You know that you know yes there's uh there's historically this strong corners that maybe we can't afford anymore. >> But there's another separation that we can create there that that can undo that. And what good examples of that because we have to show I think we have to really literally show that. We can't just say that because it's a guideline that we're going we're going to give people and they're going to say, you know, and we want to show that. Talk about rhythm and elevations. show some good examples of the of the of the rhythm uh of how it was done historically, you know, and what is what is what we can do now. Um you talk about uh depth with elevation, you know, how uh windows are punched now. It's or how you unflatten it or how you make it a little more depth. what you can do. You you started on that little bit with the uh outskirt trim around the window, but also there's other ways. Let's let's look at that and say, "Historically, this is how it was done because the wall was thicker." You're right. And you allowed you to have that shadow line, but now because things are much flatter, how do we create that shadow line that we want? Show them examples of that. You know, black frames are a good example. Cheap and easy. to make it so it has a little more shadow line or um how do you break up the sides? You know, changing material, changing color, those are easy, cheap things that we do now that before we had setbacks and and so forth that that gave volume. I think we got to play show that kind of what we did before that was successful and what we can do now. And yet say you got to be literal about this because what we see in these projects that be coming up are just some of them are really like what are you doing? >> Okay. >> So excuse me. >> I said you're here. >> Oh. Um so those are the big things. Okay. Uh that I just want to say before I got into some of the >> stuff here and I think you guys did a great job. I just want you to carry that on and and establish some of those to start off with. Um, if I were to go back into your thing here, um, can we go back to those sections? Like in the 20s or something like that, 22, 24, something like that? >> 25. >> Okay, hold on a minute. Let me catch up. Yes. Okay. Um, beyond that, the close-ups. >> Yeah. >> Okay. See, we said uh Arlington Center. Um, I live in Arlington Center. Okay. Go close to it. I shop there. I do stuff there. That to me is not Arlington Center. Um, you I think some suggestion you you pick up a section through more representation more representative of a center. Okay. Uh I would call >> is it the height that's not representative the width of the road? >> The width of the roads the setbacks everything. >> Um you show 7 ft of grade of tree line there you show 20 ft of setback from the buildings you show 7 foot uh sidewalks show the street being 50 ft. Okay. My suggestion to you is take it where the hardware store is. Take it where the agar stand is. Okay. Those streets and trees share the same plaque which is basically 8 ft wide and the buildings are right on the property line. They go straight up. Okay. So I I just want to establish that a little more just so you understand what we're looking at because I don't want to be misled by like this right here looks like it's wide open. It's it's great. There's no shadow lines in the buildings or nothing. And then um if you look at that section, I'm just going to say on this one now because I won't go over every single one. Okay, I trust you guys. Um the line beyond what is that? >> You you mean the >> the ones right above the cars? >> Oh. Oh, sorry. Yeah. So, >> so it's like 50 ft back or was it that mean you're taking a section at the lower and then it goes up? >> Yeah. And and >> it's very misleading. >> I might just draw I might draw some lines up or just delete it because it doesn't really show anything. >> I mean it it was trying to show that in fact cut that way the street is actually descending fairly from the heights down fairly. >> I would show it dramatically. I would show uh probably better graphics to show that uh what you're trying to achieve here cuz when I look at it I'm like you know there's no wall between the um that green space the tree is and sidewalk you know and I'm okay I I trust you guys uh this is draft I'm not going to be too nifty but I'm just going to say something I saw that was that I had some issues with Um and then um some of the um these pictures you show. Okay. Um I agree with my other board members that what you show here. Okay. I don't I don't disagree with you. These are nice projects. They show the details, but I'm not sure these can be built in Arlington uh by current zoning or new zoning. So, I guess I'm a little confused by that. It's my understanding that you could build these. Um, certainly in the sort of area where you can go five or six with the retail bonus or or the affordable housing, these would qualify as uh in in in that way. And then the ones on on the next page are are within the four. So, it wouldn't need the bonus. >> Look at the building on top left. >> Mhm. >> Um, that looks to me like a complete building. >> Uh, lobby, entry, garage, everything. It doesn't look like there's a retail space below. It doesn't express commercial retail space below. It may be, but I'm not saying it doesn't have that kind of strong impression. So when I first look at that, I go, that's not really what we're trying to do here in creating more retail space that opens up and liven up the street. So I, you know, that's that kind of stuff. Um um and granted these are already modern contemporary buildings. Um, I want you to also look at some historical buildings that have a different kind of character but have the same emphasis of what you're trying to show. And also I want to show some more economic buildings u by meaning um buildings that not as expensive you know not as rich materials but they they allow but they uh through good design they use that to make u some depth in the windows some light streets a strong datim between uh commercial space and I'll just challenge you >> no no I I I apprei we we we had exactly this discussion in the office and and the Cambridge example, I believe, is 100% affordable. >> Um so so there we chose it specifically for that uh uh reason. Um because we're like, "Oh, we're showing them a bunch of luxury buildings." I I mean, sure, that's fine, too. But that shouldn't unless that's your goal. That shouldn't be the only thing we're we're showing because it it sets the wrong expect. >> Yes. I found Okay. Um, affordable buildings generally have richer materials from the outside skin of the building. I don't know why, but they do. And market rate development buildings are much poorer or not poorer. Uh, What's the correct word I'm using? But more um economic materials they use, you know, siding, uh hardy sighting or just big panels or just very it's blood. Okay. And afford affordable 100% affordable projects generally are virtually nicer. Okay. That's from my experience and I give them kudos for doing that. But I want to be able to address some of the other buildings that we've built, you know, market buildings or buildings that we built for profit and, you know, give them some ideas. Say this, you can do this, you can do that. I mean, this is just a sounding board and give some ideas to build do that. I would encourage you to show more examples of what good design is and what you mean by good design. Like, well, this is a good example of shadow light. This is a good example. corn is this a good reinterpretation of uh you know even that little detail you mentioned how the brick dubtailed in at the corner that's a great detail something like that >> saying you know just by changing something like that simply could add richness to it people don't think of that we could that you know I want to have this positive design guidelines hey we can do this I'm not saying what you did >> I love what you did so >> no it's it's very helpful >> I just You need more. >> Yeah, >> this this is uh great. >> Um I'm going to ask a lot. This is a good draft, right? How many more versions do we have with you? So, we're going to take these comments and wrap this piece of it up and and move to the um the next part, which is drafting the um what we're actually trying to to give the the the developers and and their designers. So, um and at that point, uh when we have a draft, we'll share that with you. There's a public comment um opportunity at that point and we'll take all of that feedback and create the final document and then uh sort of discuss well we've been already discussing it was in the RFP different ways of sub of of of disseminating this information. >> So you're saying there's two more comments stages. >> Yes. >> One with uh us and one with the public. >> Yeah. Maybe not at order, but >> yeah. Although this is also public. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, >> well, public and you're going to hold a function where we'll have invite the public in and you hold display, but this is just a hearing that is public. >> Yeah. I, you know, we've done a lot of of work with communities. We do a lot of community engagement. um big proponents of it. I think building consensus for for projects always makes them stronger because at the end of the day, we're here to do our very best for you, but then we leave. So, somebody has to believe in the project enough to have that sense of ownership. So, that's a very we're 100% behind that. In our experience, it's hard to get people very excited about guidelines. We'll we'll do our best and we'll rely on you as well to get the public in for those kind of meetings. But it it's a hard one because it doesn't immediately directly affect one's life and we all have very busy lives. So it's it's hard for the general public to sort of understand immediately what what the what is it because they're not rules, right? It's not zoning. They're suggestions. And if we do it right, they're suggestions that are supposed to make it easier for the developers to do a good job. Yeah. And that's essentially what what what we're we're trying to >> Yes. I would encourage the board and I think the board agrees that we would very much encourage them reviewing the design guidelines before coming to our board for presentations. And you know, Vince, you got a >> Yeah, I have a question. Um, first of all, I think you'd be surprised at how excited Arlington Arlington residents can get about design. I would love to be wrong. >> Um, but so my question and I don't know if I'll be able to articulate this very well, but you know there's I I enjoyed your discussion of the private and public realm and the kind of border between the two. And there's a negotiation there's always a negotiation between the public and the private and how big you can build and where you can build and um what it looks like. It's a back and forth. It's been going on for for ages. And so, you know, the design guidelines will be arriving, you know, not into a void, but into a community that's been having conversations about development for for for many years. And, um, you know, certainly I think different people will see different things in the guidelines and might see ways to pursue different interests and and that's all fine. I guess my question is when you go to a community and you do a set of guidelines and then you leave and have you had it the experience to kind of observe the ones that use them successfully and what that might mean and even the term successfully, you know, is it is it about defining some goals for what the guidelines will do? Like what can we do? What can you do to make sure that when you do leave that we have something that we're kind of successfully implementing and it doesn't just end up in a a trash can somewhere? >> That's a very good good question. I I um so a few years ago we completed the citywide the first citywide urban design guidelines for Cambridge. Um and I happen to be a resident so I've seen I've seen it kind of develop. Interestingly, the one thing that was not a part of what we did was the um the affordable housing over there, which is sort of its own third rail. Um but I I've you know over the past few years I've been able to see what has been successful of that and and what is not sort of caught up. Um, also and that that really hit home to me because it was one of those things that you probably know. Uh, folks in Cambridge have a lot of opinions about most things and um it was really hard to get people to weigh in on this until it was done and then there was a lot of um but but uh you know I think there are different ways of measuring success. One is um is it providing and I think this is the most important is it providing the sort of built environment that you as a community are hoping to have. Um, another way of measuring success is is it giving the staff and the folks who interact with the developers and yourselves the tools to say here this is what we want to do do this and then is it giving the developers developers hate uncertainty right that's the worst part of it they like they want to know if I show me the path and I will take that path path uh as you know as expediently as possible and if they can cut corners they they not all they but they might okay yeah but if it's clear right what what they need to do they're appreciative of that and they can factor that into their performance and and whatnot and decide in the outset right the the fewer unknowns the better they are. So those are three very different success or definitions of success and ultimately a a good set of guidelines is is going to be successful on all three registers. I appreciate that and I do hope we can kind of put that in the a preface or somehow, you know, state the goals. And I just think that there's a kind of social contract that you can possibly start to have in guidelines where you say if we're going to have development, more development, it's got to look better. There's a kind of negotiation there. And I think it's important to talk about that and understand that and what you know what what that means. So yeah, that's it. Thank you. >> Um I'm going to open it to public right now because we're running out of time. Um if anyone >> Yes. >> Can I just for clarity um we do not have a dedicated public forum scoped for this project, but we do have more public engagement and dedicated public comment. Just want to be clear about that. I Okay, we'll we talk we can we we circle around that later. Okay, I I would probably would like to have one if that's possible. Um giving public uh buy in on this is very important uh especially if we're going to seek approval uh town meeting. So I think it's it it is critical. But we we can talk about it. I'm um open up for the public. Do you guys mind um scooting over just a little bit so they can come up and speak with a microphone? Uh we have we share this with uh home home viewers too. So I just want to make sure everybody gets a chance to um um go ahead. >> Uh please state your please state your name and address. Uh and >> Wel Evans Orchard Place um town meeting member. Good to see you all. It's been a long summer. Uh some comments. I'll be brief. These are in no particular order. Um, if you have not yet, I would um hope that you would take a look at our residential design guidelines, which I worked on and I'm very proud of. Um, and I think they they go a little bit towards addressing the things that Michelle and Vince uh came up with both in terms of specificity for developers and also specificity in terms of what can actually be built according to our zoning bylaw. Um uh one thing I also hope that you might consider uh in a next draft is our great overlooked resource which is the battle road uh which is that corridor that runs from Cambridge to Lexington uh and seems to have so much potential in so many ways and we just don't really do enough with it. So that might be something to consider. Um, I loved hearing about how buildings engage uh with the street and how, you know, I'm one of those people who stops and oh, look at that detail and look at that detail. In 50 years, I would not stop and look at any of those buildings. I'm sorry to pick out a great detail. So, I echo what Mr. Laauos said, which is to look maybe at some more historical examples. Um, I understand cost constraints, labor, materials, etc. are very different today. But I do see examples of contemporary buildings that that have I think more lasting beauty and I send examples when I come across that something. So I will keep doing that as well. Um and um my other comment is I didn't read anything in here about climate mitigation today. Um and I think trees have to be figured into everything. I don't think rooftop gardens and balconies cut it anymore. And if we do want to encourage a more walkable community, there has to be not just shade in the terms of sails or awnings, but there have to be trees um for the cooling effects. Um and there's just so much contemporary research coming out about their effects on mortality. Um we just it's got to be factored into things. Uh you might want to take a look at I believe it's 990 Massav. It's called the Kentwood and it was built back before our current zoning bylaw. It's 8 ft tall and you don't even notice it because it's got a 30-foot setback with four mature trees in it and you walk by and it's this beautiful shaded landscaped area. It's not a particularly appealing building. Um, so those would just be some of the things that I hope that you guys would consider as this goes forward and thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. >> Thank you, >> Susan. Hi, Susan Stamps, 39 Grafton Street. I I don't think I can I can't top what Winnell just said. I agree with everything she said. Um I really appreciated um Ken your comment about that we're looking for walkable livable space and I encourage you to look at the comprehensive plan that town meeting just approved and that theme is throughout the comprehensive plan. People want a livable, walkable, healthy community. And I really appreciated um uh Vince's comments that talked about um that he would like that he feels that the priority for building design and and positioning and such is public benefit versus um things that are a matter of opinion like color. Um and I agree with that. I think that's a wonderful vision and a vision that just in general if the ARB could keep keep top of mind just what's the public benefit. Um because there buildings are just a piece of the environment that we're in along with the trees and the the natural the the waterways and and they're all they all make up our environment. And so, of course, we're not just talking about the people who are going to live in the in the houses or the buildings, the apartment buildings or whatever. We're talking about the people who walk by on the street and what it what's the feel of the town. So, um I I really appreciate all the comments of the board on this. I think we're going in the right direction. Want to thank you all. >> Thank you. Yes, please. Uh please state your name and address. Do that. Liz Reeseburg, 20 Shauny Road, um town needing member of precinct 10. Um I, you know, I didn't take notes. I should have done this to keep my brain organized, but um a couple things. I mean, I do agree with what Vince said is I think you'll find in Arlington there'll be a lot of feedback about this. And I think it's really important for community engagement to happen sooner rather than later. I think it's really hard to just come up with a draft of something and give it out to the public for people to comment on. Um, I think that process of public engagement is really messy and sometimes it's tedious, but I think we're talking about a a really critical crossroads in the development of Arlington right now. I mean, I've been here for 35 years and I think right now between the overlay, the need for more housing, and the amount of de development going on, we're about to really build the Arlington of the future. I think it's going to change more in the next decade going forward than I've seen in in the three decades I've been here. So I think it's really important and I think this is not really a transient community. People are pretty invested in Arlington and I think a lot of public engagement is really important to make this successful. Um I want to kind of speak also to the um the variety as you said or diversity of architecture in Arlington and the fact that there hasn't been a lot of planning. Um, I I guess I wouldn't be so bold as to try to impose my aesthetic on anyone, but I do think we should be respectful of the character of neighborhoods. And I think some of the new buildings that have gone up in in the last decade are totally in congruous with the streetscape and the look of the neighborhood. And I don't think that means that it has to be historic and brick and we don't want everything to be boring and the same, but I think we really need to be respectful of streetscapes and character. And I don't think that we have done a particularly good job of that. And just fiddling with color as as already has been commented on doesn't really do that. Um you know and again we're building structures that are going to last for a long time. So I think we need to proceed um cautiously, thoughtfully um and really respect the fact that this is a community and there there is a lot of history here despite the fact that we have a lot of new buildings. And I think we can build new structures without and but yet also not hiding or camouflaging or overwhelming the historic architecture that already exists and has been here for quite a while. And then finally, um my concern is a little bit of of what Vince raised about where what happens when this is all done. I my my impression is you know from having been able to attend to some of some of these meetings that we tend to look at buildings one at a time and you know a building somebody comes with a proposal and we kind of look at it but yet somebody comes with a proposal it's already kind of the same that dynamic of like this is what I want to build and then the board kind of says well this needs to change and this needs to change you know how do we get people involved much earlier on in the process so that when developers want to build an Arlington that they want to work with us collaboratively um to build things that will work for this community. Um as Wynel said, there were guidelines that had been here for a long time. I don't know that they're given a whole lot of of of difference or cons, you know, or um respect or understanding or whatever. But I think that, you know, if we're going to do this, this is an enormous effort that you're putting into this, that the board's putting into this, and the community is putting into it. And it would be a shame if this all happened and it just became a report that was online as a PDF. Um, you know, the question is, how does this become a real community commitment towards building the kind of Arlington we all want to live in in the future? Thank you. >> Thank you. Is anyone else? Uh, seeing no more public comment, I'm going to close it. and we return to the board for any final comments. >> Uh yeah, Mr. Chair, I just wanted to clarify your comment and my my comment about what's possible to build. Just make I mean you all will do this as you get deeper into the details, but just be aware if you look at those overlay districts. Most of Massav is actually not um nothing facing on Massav is really in there um because the commercial it's it's sort of bumped back from the commercial. Um Broadway is a little bit different. Uh but what we're mostly seeing coming through the board in the MB MBTA communities is slightly off of the big thoroughares slightly smaller. Um and there might be some people who are very smart and find one of these little spots to to build a big building like that and that's great and I hope they do but in reality what we're seeing is you know still bigger buildings than we generally have but slightly maybe not quite to that scale. So we want to make sure that those are reflected here too. Thank you, Michelle. Anybody else? Uh, seeing no other comments, I'm going to say thank you for this um good presentation and hopefully we'll see more. And uh, thanks. >> Thank you. >> Thanks for coming in. >> Have pages of run quick because we're running long tonight. Next on uh topic is open forum. Uh anyone wants to speak, they have up to three minutes. Uh please come forward and uh let me know you want to speak. >> Seeing no one wants to uh speak. I'm going to close open forum. And next on the agenda is new business. Um, people left. >> I have one item of new business and that is that we are going to set the time uh for the retreat on October 24th from 9 to 12. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That's all I've got for tonight, >> Steve. >> Yes. I was reading um reading an issue of the Arlington Advocate from February in 1972 as one does during their lunch period and there's much to do about you know a business owner who was really he was really hung up on what he felt was inadequate parking in Arlington Center. And he went on and in this article he goes on to talk about a plan that was done in 1932 uh which incorporated a futuristic multi-level parking garage, bus depot and train station. So um if staff has comes across a 1932 plan for a futuristic looking multi-story garage, bus depot and train station in Arlington Center. I would love a PDF of this. Thank you. >> Thank you, Steve. Anybody else? >> I think they built it at Life instead. >> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. >> There was reading that there was an element of insult to injury. I confess. >> Can I get a motion to adjurnn, please? >> Second. >> Steve, >> yes. >> Vince, >> yes. >> Michelle, >> yes. >> Jenna, >> yes. Yes, I'm a yes, too. Thank you very much.