Raw Truths From The Brink Of Death – Ben Askren

Welcome back to life, dude. >> Well, I've been I've been living again for quite a while now. Um, June 28th was actually the day I got the transplant last year, so coming up on a year for that. Uh, I think I believe I woke up on July 2nd or somewhere around there or, you know, like came to in my own mind. Um, so yeah, it's been a process, but I'm here. I'm getting better. Uh, and life's pretty good. So, one year ago from now, you were really in the [ __ ] >> Well, I just made a post yesterday because on June 6th, which was two days ago, Saturday, I got inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. And when I went home or went back to hotel with my wife, I said, "Didn't I get airlifted June 6th last year?" So, last year on June 6th, I was in Vegas and I went first the first hospital, second hospital, and then we had some friends that came out that were one was the doctor, one was a nurse, and they said, "You ain't he's not going to make it to this hospital. we need to get him back to Milwaukee because they have a good uh it's called CVICU uh cardiovascular intensive care unit and they they got me a flight. They put me on a plane uh took me all the way back and I said to my wife, "Why was that such a bad day?" Cuz I don't remember. I was sleeping. And she said to transport me, they had to fully paralyze my body. Um and then when I got back to Milwaukee, they put me on ECMO. And with ECMO, there's I think there's only like a 40% chance you come off ECMO. A lot of people go on it don't come off it. So, uh, they were hoping I wouldn't have to do that. I did have to do that. So, June 6th last year, although I don't remember anything. It was quite eventful. >> And then this year, you got to celebrate. So, it's, you know, is full circle. For the people who don't know what we're talking about, could you could you explain what's happened over the last 12 months? >> Yeah. Um, well, May May 28th last year, uh, 2025, um, I went to the hospital. I actually went to the hospital on the day before. Also, May 27th, my back was hurting. just a back back pain. I thought it was a back spasm. That was it, you know. And on May 27th, I tested everything was normal. Did all the vitals and and I told my wife, "See, I told you I was just a back spasm." And the doctor gave me medicine for a back spasm. And I went back to the hotel. We were at the Bitcoin conference and it got worse and the medicine did not work at all, which that's never happened. I've had, you know, a handful of backpor. And then, you know, I was up most of the night trying to make it feel better. And when I woke up in the morning, so sometime in the middle of the night, I'd finally fallen asleep. When I woke up in the morning, it was a little bit later. And she had been videotaping me sleeping. And she had sent it to a few of our doctor friends, and they said, "You need to get him to the hospital as soon as you can." So, when I woke up, um, >> what was what was happening while you were sleeping? >> I was like super like super fast and hard breathing, right? Um, and so when I woke up, my wife's like, "Hey, we're we're going to the hospital." I said, "Dude, you made me go to you make me go to the hospital." I say, "I'm not going back to the hospital, damn it. Um, you know, I got stuff I want to do today. I don't want to go to the hospital." And she's like, "No, you got to go to the hospital." So eventually they convinced me to go to the hospital and it was the same place as the day before. We went there and I remember walking in in the waiting room and then that's it. I don't remember anything. I woke up in July 2nd. I didn't know where I was. I didn't know why I was there. I don't remember anything. I was asleep for I want to say it was I think it was 37 days, I believe. >> So, you you transported from kind of being a bit irritated that you were back at the same hospital for what you thought might be a back spasm for the second time and your wife being a little bit overbearing. >> Yes. >> To now it's July and what the [ __ ] am I Oh, and I'm in a totally different I'm in a totally different hospital now. >> Well, I woke up and it was uh you know, I say wake up. I was awake sometimes, but I I uh to my recollection, I I don't recall any any of it. Nothing. And so that when I when I like wake up the first time or when I come to some type of cognitive understanding of what's going on. Yeah. >> Um it was it was the middle of the night. It was dark. I obviously quickly realized I was in a hospital and I started thinking like, how did I end up here? Why am I here? I didn't remember going in Vegas. It was how am I here? Why am I here? And then I couldn't speak at all. And so I I don't even recall how it happened but for some way I you know signal to the nurse like why am I here? What am I doing? And they told me I had a double lung transplant and you know again I couldn't talk and it was like okay why do I have a double lung transplant? I have I don't know. I have no idea what how that would happen. I'm totally healthy. I've never smoked. I've never done anything. Um and then eventually my wife came in the morning whatever that you know the next morning or whatever and she had documented everything. So it was like a dayby-day journal of you know June 2nd this happened June 4th this happened and I had to read through it and I was like oh my god what like how did this ever happened? Um and yeah so that was kind of my recollection of waking up and kind of figuring out what was going on. So, retrospectively, I know that you weren't awake to be able to work out this from a first-person view. What you go into the waiting room and then what happens from there? >> Um, well, so I had a staff infection on my elbow. >> Um, I don't know if you've ever got one or not, but you know, sometimes like I all my life I've only had to get on an uh antibiotic a singular time. um you know, you get a cut, you get a little infected, you put some antibacterial on there, you wash, you shower, you clean it up, and it goes away. And that was what happened to me. I had a little infection on my elbow. I washed, I showered, I soaked it, I added bacterial, and within a couple days, it it was gone. And I didn't think much of it, you know, and then I made no connection, but about four days later, my my back was started hurting and I thought, okay, this is the back spasm. And everyone always said, you would do it differently. And I said, no, I wouldn't. How who ever could guess, oh yeah, my back hurts because my body's eating my lungs from the inside. Like, no one's ever heard of that. That's totally ridiculous. So, the staff got into my blood and it turned into a a necro called necrotyping pneumonia in which uh my body was essentially eating my lungs from the inside out. That was what the back pain was. So, I dealt with that for about I think five days before I ended up in the hospital. And then so when I was in the hospital, it was like really bad like sepsis and necroizing pneumonia. Um and yeah, so they they tried doing all they could to kind of like save my lungs and and keep me alive. And at some point it became the only way I was going to stay alive was to have a uh lung transplant, which you know, again, I wasn't awake for any of this. Um and so I believe I was in the Milwaukee hospital for about three weeks before that happened. And then I got the lung transplant and uh I think I was still kind of like unconscious for about six more days after that and then I woke up and there I was. >> [ __ ] me. Where do you get >> Where do you get lungs from? >> That's what I said. Um I I don't know. Uh I actually wrote to the donor family. The donor family has not responded. Obviously two from the same person. >> Yeah. Yeah. But you don't you can't you can't mix and match two lungs. >> Oh, I actually think you can. Uh, no, I know you can because I talked to a guy in the hospital about it, you know. And that's one that's where um you think about life and you think about gratitude and you never want to take anything for granted. And I always think about the people I meet in the hospital now. Uh this was a while ago now probably four months ago but I was in for one of my kind of routine checkups and this this guy comes up to me and you know I'm I'm waiting to go inside the you know to meet the doctors and so a lot of the same similar type people in the similar area. So he had a lung transplant and you know I think okay I was I was unconscious for 36 days and I was in the hospital for I think it was 73 total or something which is quite a long time and it wasn't fun but then this guy was in the hospital for nine months and he was sick and he got a double lung transplant and then almost immediately one of the two lungs rejected. I don't know why or how. I'm not a medical doctor. I can't tell what happened. And he got a different lung from a different person and he is now living with two new lungs from two different people. So I always I try to reflect on yes, my situation was tough, but it could always be tougher and at the end of the day, I could always not be here. So I'm quite grateful for what happened. >> Where do they how do the lungs come out? >> They cut you right. I don't know if you guys can see this, but Right. They >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> They split you right in half. Yeah. So, they're not taking it from like under They're not reaching under the rib cage and pulling it down. Are they cracking the rib cage open? >> You know, you know what, Chris? I've never had the balls to go look exactly how they do it. >> No way. >> No, I don't want to. >> You just didn't want to know. >> I don't It's called the Well, I mean, you can Google Go look it up if you want. It's called the clam shell in clam shell incision is what it's called. Um I could see exactly where I've been cut. I know what it feels like. Um, but no, I I've never had the balls to uh go look up and see exactly how they open you up. >> I guess >> I feel like that'll gross me out a little too much. >> Yeah, maybe. Maybe. I suppose. So, I guess what's crazy is like they're going to have they have to reattach. It's like it's like basically plumbing. It's human plumbing. >> You're like reattaching or human AC ducting maybe more accurately. It's like, oh, there's a pipe that comes down. We got to get rid of this pipe. That pipe needs to be reconnected. >> I mean, I don't know how again if you haven't done your research, you haven't done your research. I want to know how when you're removing somebody's lungs, I need to know how they keep you breathing because you need >> oxygen to keep you [ __ ] going. But there's there has to be a moment when there's no lungs or there's a moment. >> There's a moment when there's four lungs. >> There's one of two choices. They either attach both at the same time and swat switch one out. >> Yeah. You know what? I don't know the answer to this. I should know the answer. I do know. I'll tell you this is gross. They said, the doctor did say it was the uh worst lung transplant she's ever seen because so many of my tissue died. It had like uh essentially like stick like glue to the walls of my ribs and stuff like that. So they had to like really scrape all the old lungs off the inside of my chest cavity >> because they would kind of decomposing inside of you. >> That's that's what she said. So she said it was uh it was one of the worst that they'd ever seen. Uh, it took I I don't remember what the time was now because I was half unconscious for a lot of the first time I was awake because she said it took them quite a while to actually clear it out and then, you know, get the new ones in. So, you know what? I don't know how I was bleeding at that point in time. >> Do people have any idea where this comes from? Is it it just randomly onsets? Is it a virus? Do you get it by >> Yeah. >> being on mats or what? Well, I think I got the original original staff infection, but to the point I made earlier, like it cleared up and it was no big deal. And it wasn't like I had the flu or I was sick or I was coughing or none of these things whatsoever. Um, and you know, the Kyle Bush thing that happened, that was a couple weeks back and it was weird. It was almost to the day of when mine happened the year prior. um sounded very very similar to what I what I went through and uh you know I have not grilled the doctor really really hard on why why exactly did this happen how did this happen or or that kind of stuff I guess I woke up and I said well this is my new reality how do how do I get better so I grilled him a lot on how how do I get better but I haven't grilled him on how did it happen >> that's really interesting mindset I >> I guess it's it's really only important for you to understand what happened in so far as it informs what you can do now to improve. >> Yeah. And uh you know what happened was I think probably something that's extreme extremely rare. Um you know I guess I could go back and ask him and honestly part of me thinks and and this is just me judging from what my wife said because my wife was obviously awake and talking to them all and she did a great job of kind of trying to connect everyone that could possibly help me. Um, but it was one of those things where they were having a hard time figuring out how I got that sick. You know, she brought up the cut of my elbow. She knew about that. But then they were asking all kinds of different questions on, well, was he doing this or was he doing that? Like they I think they thought, hey, this doesn't make sense either, you know, also. >> Okay. So, you wake up, you come around. >> What next, >> man? So, the first uh you know what's really funny? you think you're you're like fully conscious if you will once I woke up and you know now I look back on the first I don't know we'll say we'll say 10 days to two weeks and I was like holy [ __ ] I was out of my mind I mean now I get like there's this one two or three day period where I very vividly remember I do remember some things that for sure happened because I went back and I I cross reference it with people that were there and I said hey did this actually happen but then um like I thought I got transported to this hospital that was on the lake like half a mile from my house and there's no hospital there. That didn't exist. That was only in my mind for multiple days. Uh and I I know I kept threatening I kept threatening the nurses that I was going to walk home because I was just on the road. [laughter] I couldn't even walk. I couldn't walk. You know, it's like the thought. >> It's a lie. It's a lie from every different direction. >> Yeah. So, you know, that the first couple weeks like um you know, I think I was on so many drugs. I did get off pain meds relatively quick, but um it's being the rest of stuff I was on. And then they call it like delirium because you don't sleep enough in the you know in the hospital. Um yeah, I had so many wild thoughts. Um you know, positive thing. I had a lot of friends visiting me. So that's like I know some of the things that I thought happened did happen because I said, "Hey, were you were you there when X Y or Z happened?" And they said, "Yeah." So I had a lot of friends visiting me. My wife visited me almost every day. My mom visited a lot. My dad. Um, so yeah, just kind of like waking up and figuring out how to do everything again because I couldn't walk, I couldn't feed myself, you know, it's >> it's the long list of things you I mean, I pretty much couldn't do anything by myself. >> What was the lowest point that your health got to when you woke up? Was it immediate and was it relatively uphill from there? >> Well, um, yeah, I didn't really have anything hugely negative. I guess right before I woke up, so right after a day or two, right? Um, so not right before like minute-wise. Um, I guess I spiked really bad fever and they didn't know why and that was scary to everyone including my wife. Uh, but what as I woke up, um, yeah, everything was like I guess it moved in a positive direction, probably not nearly as fast as I thought. Um, you know, a lot of lung transplant patients, they're on the list for a long time and their condition is not necessarily like immediately life scared. Like eventually it would kill them, but it might take many years. So they're actually in kind of like a lot better shape than I was where I was like near near very near depth. I lost like 60 pounds for example of you know muscle while I was muscle body weight but mostly muscle uh while I was in the hospital. Um so when I woke up it did mostly get better. There was a lot of things like I don't know if you know what chest tubes are but it took me forever to get my chest tubes out. I was the first lung transplant patient that they sent home with a chest tube in because I was like you got to let me you got to let me go. >> And then yeah, unfortunately I got infected. I ended up back in the hospital for two weeks. Um I don't think of any fault of my own. I think it just happened and you know then I got stuck there again for a while. But uh yeah, it was a process. Took a long time. Um I didn't start walking on my own for I think it was roughly two months. Um, you know, and then even at that point, like, you know, walking on my own meant like I go four steps and I'm holding on to a counter and then I go, you know, three more step, you know, like it's not really I'm not like getting around. >> Um, yeah. And then it was just a process. And it was like >> once I became more capable, it's like, okay, hey, today I want to try to walk for eight minutes. Walking for eight minutes is my goal. And then >> once I got the hang of that, then it's 10 minutes, then it's 12 minutes. And then I, you know, kind of just keep building up. And then it's okay. Now I'm going to try to do some squats which was, you know, in the beginning I couldn't get myself off the toilet. I had to have literally have someone help me get up. Um, yeah. So that was the process and uh it's still a process where I'm and I'm actually getting better at I feel like still at quite a rapid rate and I'm 11 over 11 months out. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Yeah. 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Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase by going to the link in the description below or heading to drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. That's drinklnt.com/modernwisdom. What was your main emotion like when you came back around once you were a little bit less delirious? >> Yeah, probably Labbergal. I mean, I still think about sometimes still I wake up and think, well, like how did that happen? Like I have a lung transplant. Like I never smoked anything in my life. Like how does someone like me end up with a lung transplant? So I think like uh that would probably be the main emotion of like how did this happen? This is nuts. Um, and then probably the second one after that would be like, okay, what do I got to do? Because again, this is my new reality. I can't change it. So, I might as well make the best of it. So, what is it that I need to do? And I've probably spent, you know, I can't tell you how many hours since I spent 11 months researching, what do I do about this problem? What do I do about that problem? And just kind of like >> heavy heavy chat GPT user >> for real chat GPT. If you can ask my question, uh, you get a lot of information and then I usually use the information. I bounce off my doctor and I say, "Hey, here's what I'm gathering. What do you think about this?" And Chad GPT is right. I don't know, we'll probably say 70 80% of the time. Like it's it's pretty good. You know, there's a few things where it kind of really gets it wrong. Um, so I always obviously cross cross reference first. >> Okay. So I you know, the flabbergasted thing is so funny. I've got this I've always had this thought in my mind like I've come off a a moped in Bali. I've been in a couple of like pretty big car accidents. like a few things that are sort of shock >> kinetic instant or whatever. >> And you're right, one of the main emotions is surprise. Like this isn't this can't be this can't be happening. And I was thinking to myself, I wonder >> how many people have died, you know, from from something horrendous or accidental. Someone got shot, you know, crossfire. Somebody got shot and they just feel the thing go through them and they look down and they're like, >> "Have I been Oh, surely I haven't been f and that's it. And your last thought isn't >> Yeah. You know the the movie lying on the ground looking up telling your last rights explaining your insights from it's just did I get [ __ ] shot? >> Holy [ __ ] I And then it's done. And it's the same with you. The the main insight the main was it come back around and were you fearing for do you see the the beauty of existence? I I was largely uh [ __ ] surprised, dude. That was my main >> my main sensation. >> I I would say that, you know, how did like why am I here? How did this happen? And surprisingly it >> and uh that was kind of like me piecing it together for the first, you know, handful of days. And then the other one was what happened while I was asleep, right? Like I've been asleep for 37 days. >> What's the What's the Bitcoin price at please? What's the Bitcoin price? It it was it was good at that point in time. I actually missed a whole bunch of really really important wrestling events in uh late May and early June. Uh you know, so there was you know catching up on all that because I was not awake for a single day of June. Um and then you know going through the kind of order of events of what happened to me and and there was there was a bunch of really amazing things like um there's so many people supported um either through prayer or helping my family in some way shape or form or meals because you know my wife is then obviously there's not a father in the household because I'm in the hospital. Uh my wife is spending a large portion of her time at the hospital with me. >> Um so you know my kids are all on summer break. is not even like they go to school. So, you know, who who's going to take care of them, who can help out with them. So, usually my wife and my mom and my dad would kind of like uh alternate who's at the hospital, but then we had a whole bunch of friends and family helping out with our kids and stuff. And uh we tried to keep it as normal as possible for them. You know, you don't want them at home thinking every day, hey, my dad might die. Like, >> you don't want that. So, we you know, we tried to tell them, hey, well, not I didn't do [ __ ] my wife, I tell him, "Hey, he's sick and he's at the hospital." And, you know, kind of leave it a little bit vague and open-ended like that. >> So, I guess, you know, you look across at somebody that's had a career as an athlete that that's over overcome lots of challenges and difficulty and training sessions from being a kid to being a teenager to a young athlete to a veteran athlete in all these different sports and wrestling and MMA and Da boxing. How much of that were you able to draw on when it came to recovery and resilience? >> All of it. 100%. I mean, um, you know, because the the main thing is I mean, it's been I said it's been 11 months. I probably felt really good for for a handful of those days, you know, like you know, even today uh I'll just say today I'm 11 months out. I'm having a pretty good day. But, you know, for a while before the show actually, um, you know, it was like my breathing just wasn't as good sometimes. I don't know if it's the allergies or I don't know what the issue. It just feels weird sometimes, you know. Um, and then obviously earlier on it was it was a lot more things than that. It wasn't wasn't only that. So, the amount of days I felt really good since then has been very limited. And so, it's, you know, even on the days where you don't feel good, are you going to get up and do something? because you just sit on the couch, you're you're not going to get better. And so even on the days you don't feel good, maybe you're not going to do as much as you had planned, but you're still going to do something. And that's kind of, you know, where where I was at for a long time. And, you know, now it's like, I feel mostly pretty good there. You know, there'll be a little something here and there pretty much every single day. But it's like, okay, well, if I don't feel good at 10:00 a.m., I'm going to go get my workout at 2 pm or, you know, like I'm but I am going to work out. and I'm going to train and I'm going to do my breathing exercises and I'm, you know, there's handful of other medical things that I have to do. I'm going to do them every day. I'm not going to miss it. Um, so I've been very disciplined and regimented in that. And obviously that came from my my life as an athlete, uh, being very disciplined, very regimented in that. Uh, it just crossed over kind of exactly. >> What did your weight get down to? What was the smallest the lowest weight? >> The lowest was 138. So it's like skin and bones. >> And what did you fight at? I fought at 170, but I was uh I got I'll be I got on some TRT, so I got a little bit bigger. My normal walking weight was probably uh you know when I was fighting 185ish plus or minus a few pounds and then as I retired I was probably you know 195ish somewhere somewhere in there. So >> best part 50% best part of 50%. >> Yeah. Yeah. So uh yes quite quite quite the draw down in weight. Um, and it was just like I said, I mean, I don't I don't have my wife has pictures. Skin skin and bones really is kind of what I was. >> Is that because you're not moving and not consuming any calories other than what they need to keep you alive? Is that why? >> Um, I I think they're not move, you know, never looked all the way to this. I got some good guesses. Number one, you're not moving. I mean, I told you like they literally paralyzed me. But there was other times when um I would wake up and I would just like I don't recall this but I would not be happy about that fact all my arms you know I try to like move and then that would uh spike my heart rate and then that would cause my breathing capacity my uh what is it called oxygenation or whatever that to drop right and that was really problematic I guess for a while they even have me me strapped down so I couldn't really move at all um yeah so that was kind of the that was kind of the the deal with that. So uh and then I do believe predinazone which I'm still on and why I don't be on for the rest of my life probably unfortunately. Um I believe that has some uh some capacity of where it eats your muscles a little bit. >> What's that do? That's a >> penisone. >> Yeah. >> It's some I don't know exactly which part of the imunosuppression it is but it's an amosuppressant. So with the with a transplant patient um your body will see the uh transplanted organ as a foreign body and it will attack it. So they need to essentially tamp down your immune system kind of permanently >> which is why flight for you and being in different places is more dangerous because you don't have an immune if you had an immune system that could protect you from getting sick it would also be the same immune system that would attack your new lungs. >> Yep. 100%. So I I you know I try to stay out of areas where there's a lot of people where I don't like have I don't think so control of the area of what's my surroundings are. >> Unfortunately I wear a mask a lot which is you know that's kind of >> co again baby >> I made fun of the mask people for sure and I'm [laughter] a m I'm a mask person that's that's no good. Um >> yeah but it is getting better. I'm I'm coming down like uh the levels of imunosuppression you're on. As you get further out and you get healthier, they they do come down quite a bit. So you you kind of hit a bounce back. So I've gotten, you know, for example, last couple weeks I've gotten uh lower on my you guys and tacrolymus. I mean that's fun talking about medicine, but I come down on those a little bit. So uh that means you know my energy and my indiscretion go up. And I think uh you know my year anniversary is coming up in about 3 weeks and I'll probably I'll hopefully get down even a little more potentially. >> Unreal. Okay. What um I'm interested in what matters to you more or less now than it did before. >> Yeah. Um you know what I I I said this uh you know if I would have died uh when I went to the hospital nurse I walked in the hospital I don't remember anything. If I would have died there, which I came pretty close to, um, I had a great life. Like, I really got to do what I love for uh, for a living and coaching wrestling, running the wrestlingmies. I think it's very meaningful work and that you're helping the next generation of young person not only get better at wrestling, but get better at life. Um, I love my wife. I have a great family. So I was really lucky in that I was it didn't take me to die to figure out that oh I have a bunch of misguided priorities like I think my priorities were were pretty good. I was pretty you know reflectively so I can reflect on hey if I would have died what do I think about what I had done to that point. Um so I felt really good about that. I do think I became maybe u more patient um have more gratitude for sure and that's you know I don't think that was a category maybe I was lacking in prior but I think maybe more I feel even more strongly. >> Um >> I became a Christian which uh I would say prior I was kind of Christian adjacent like I went to church for 16 years or so but just you know it didn't kind of click all the way. Um, so that would be, you know, a probably a big change I would say. So kind of those things, but I was I was proud of the life I was living prior to this. And I think all the positive things have just been kind of uh ramped up. And I think I guess I think one other one that I would mention there is, you know, I I invested in some businesses. Um, and I like all the people who are running them, but it if it took my time, even if it was just, hey, I meet I meet with the founder once a month or whatever. if it took my time and I wasn't really passionate about it. I said I asked a few different people like hey can can I get out like >> I'll I'll make a deal whatever you know whatever you feel is fair give me what's fair and I just I just want to take a few more things off of my plate. Um and I I kind of feel strongly about that. You know I get some offers to do things now and I'm just like is this what I really really really 100% want to do with my life? Is this worth the time away from my kids and my family? And if the answer is no then I generally choose not to do it. Have you seen Peiquey Blinders the series? >> No, I haven't, but I I know Spongebob wrestlers are really big fans of it, so I've heard references, but I've never watched it. >> Really cool BBC series. And uh in it, the main guy and his brother, they nearly die at the Battle of the Som in World War I, and they're I think they're called clay kickers. So they dig tunnels to try and get into the enemy uh trench from underneath as opposed to going over the top. And sometimes they the two tunnels cross over each other and then they have fights inside of the [ __ ] tunnels. It's crazy. And um >> it is crazy. >> He uh him and his brother basically nearly died at the Battle of the Psalm and they've got this line where they they sort of turn to each other and say everything after that was extra. Everything after that was extra. And it kind of sounds like that's how you see this period now. That I was I was >> happy. I mean I didn't want to die. It would have been optimal for me to have not died and I'm glad that I didn't. But had I have done, I'd lived a pretty good life up until then. But even though I'd lived a pretty good life, there's still some adjustments that I want to make in order to learn the lessons about prioritizing my time and what I was going to miss most now that I've got now that this is extra. >> Yeah. No. Uh yeah, that's that's pretty accurate with uh with how I feel and how I view it. And I want to make the most of the extra. you know what the statistics on lung transplants now I don't necessarily know that they apply to me for a variety of reasons which we can go go through if you'd like to it's kind of boring but uh the medium life expectancy is only six and a half years uh which isn't long um I don't think that's going to apply to me fully because a lot of them are older unhealthy >> you mean an ex-professional athlete who didn't get it because he was smoking and was like in the midst of some of the best [ __ ] health of his life >> yes so so you get it so uh Actually, the longest living person post double lung transplant is 38 years. So, that's kind of my goal. Uh, it's 39, at least 39. Um, but yeah, everything now is extra and it's kind of reformatted me. So, the number one thing I I love to do is my brother and I have wrestlingmies. Um, we have nine of them now in the state of Wisconsin, but the very favorite part of that is actually coaching the athletes. Um, and so, you know, that's the thing I want to spend the most time on, uh, from a work perspective. Um, and then obviously, you know, with my my family and doing that type of thing. And it's one of those that was weird because, you know, I never really thought twice about, but, you know, part of the wrestling academy thing is you you travel on a lot of weekends sometimes to go coach kids. And I I honestly it's this weird thing because I love it and I miss it a lot. And um but then it's like well I realized how much I was kind of missing at home or when my wife had to be you know especially a single mother I go to a big tournament. Now it's not saying I'm never going to do that again. I am going to do it. I'll probably just do it a little bit less than I had previously. Um so to make sure I'm around for more of my kids stuff and then obviously now my daughter's 13 and she really likes wrestling. So there's going to be a probably a good opportunity for me to spend a bunch of time with her. Too bad. Um, but yeah, so definitely not going to waste my time on things that that I don't love and that I'm not really passionate about. Um, and that's kind of probably the biggest thing. >> This episode is brought to you by Gym Shark. If you're going to spend an hour in the gym, you might as well look hot and feel comfortable while you're doing it. Gym Shark makes the best men's and women's training gear on the planet. And here is something I realized a few years into training. When you actually like what you're wearing in the gym, you show up differently. You train harder, you stay longer, you get way more high fives. Their hybrid shorts are unreal. They're the perfect length. They're super lightweight. They're easy to wash and dry. And their sleeveless t-shirts are basically what I've trained in every day for a year now. They're the ideal fit. They're breathable, and they hold their shape perfectly. So, no more looking like Adam Sandlers, your stylist. Basically, everything they sell is unbelievable, well-designed, high quality, and you get 30-day free returns globally with global shipping, plus a 10% discount sitewide. Right now, you can get 10% off everything by going to the link in the description below or heading to jim.sh/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom10 a checkout. That's jim.sh/modernwisdomd and modernwis wisdom10 a checkout. Has your definition of success changed since that? >> Um, you know, I've been thinking about this a lot actually because I don't know if you if you saw or heard, but I'm I'm wrestling next month. Um, and the reason I was wrestling was they told me, so I I actually work for RAF and it's going tremendously well. And one of my life goals, and this is something where it's like, I'm not going to work for RAF forever. Um, because it's not the one thing I want to do, but one of my life goals was to start a legitimate professional wrestling organization in America that could run on its own and give athletes the opportunity to compete at professionals. RAF is doing freaking amazing job. I mean, they're they're doing better. I should say we are doing better than I ever could imagine this quickly. It's fascinating. Um, but when they told me they're coming to my hometown on my birthday, something, [laughter] right? It's like, okay, I I got to get out there and I gota I got to make it happen. Um, and so that's kind of been a really big driver for me is just and a big part of it is me helping other people. And I I listen I get messages pretty much every single day on Instagram at this point of hey your journey has inspired me. Um and I think I was giving Sorry I'm giving a very long-winded answer but I think that's okay on this podcast. [laughter] So your journey inspired me. I've been saying the same things for 15 years. But I think you know when I'm on tops right so I'm winning MMA titles and I'm we got the best wrestling academy in America. I think people it resonates to a one way and then they see you dying and on your deathbed and trying to climb out of this hole and you're saying the exact same things. I think it resonates and motivates in a different type of way. Not this guy doesn't just talk about it. This guy is about it, right? He he understands what what adversity is. He understands what hardship is. And when he had met adversity and hardship, he reacted the exact same way that he said he would. So I'm not just talking about it. I am about it. Um, so me being able to climb my way out of this hole and live a I will say relatively normal life, you know, this never it's never going to be all the way back to normal, but as close to normal as possible. Um, I think that's very inspiring for people and uh >> the So then my thought on that was uh I don't know how you feel about this guy. He's very controversial, but RFK um thumbs up or thumbs down for him. >> Um I I've been to dinner with him. He was a nice guy. like he's got some he's got some wacky beliefs, but he's also managed to get the food pyramid to be the right way around for the first time in [ __ ] American history. You know, it's it's same as everybody. >> So, I would think well, one of the things I think about him is this guy has an immense amount of courage and fearlessness. And I say this to people, I say, >> think about if you grew up and you watched your father be murdered and you watched your uncle be murdered and you still had the courage to put yourself in the line of fire, right? right? Because there's a lot of people who don't like him right now and you you watch that happen to your father and your your uncle and you still are willing to have the courage to do that. That that's amazing. I don't I don't care what you think about the rest of what he says. That is that's very powerful. And he always references the sysphus, right, where the guy rolls the ball uphill only for it to roll down every single day and then he starts over. And then you know the kind of message of it to me is that there's something very powerful in just showing up and having a great attitude and working hard every single day even if you're maybe not going to get the fruits of your labors at the end of it because every day the the boulder rolls back down and he shows up and he works again every single day. And for most people um they're not going to end up without any fruits of their labor, right? Uh, so you know, they roll the boulder up the hill, it's generally going to go somewhere and they may not get every single thing they want in life, but they're going to, if you do that, you wake up with a great attitude and you work pretty hard every day, you're going to end up with a pretty good life that you're pretty proud of. >> Um, so I think about that a lot. >> Why do you think wrestling produces such mentally tough people compared to a lot of other sports? >> Uh, I think it's the best. Uh, I think it's, uh, I speak on this topic a lot. I may be biased because I run wrestlingmies, but I think there is no greater impact on a child's life uh than wrestling. I think it wrestling is a microcosm of life. Um I think there's a few qualities that maybe you don't get from wrestling, but most of them you do. Um and that is you are going to have hardship. You are going to have sacrifice. If you're going to lead any type of meaningful life, it's not going to be sunshine and rainbows the entire time. And so, um, you know, going to wrestling, it's a level of humility because you're never going to be the best one in the room. And, and if you're the best one in that room, you're going to go find another room that you're not the best in. And it's not like, hey, you're not the best. Go sit on the bench. You can go watch everyone else. No, you're not the best. Now, you're going to get your face rubbed in the back by someone who's better than you, and they're going to force you to be humble. Um, so I think you know, uh, hard work, discipline, perseverance because you you're inevitably going to get knocked down and have times of hardship and adversity. Um, uh, self-reliance is a big one. It's it's only you out there. There's no one else to save you. There's no team. There's no nothing else. Humility. Uh, I I think these all these qualities uh, can make a really really well-rounded human being. >> Yeah. I I mean I look at a lot of other combat sports, a lot of other sports in general, and everybody learns something, especially the consistency, >> the routine, but maybe it's a selection effect. Maybe it's just that the sorts of parents that put their kids in or the sorts of young guys and girls that decide that they're going to go into wrestling, they just whatever it is about making that decision, select for a particular cohort of people that are kind of stubborn and routinized and insane. But >> I don't know this look at look at even the UFC which is you know the >> I speak to that for sure. I'll tell I'll I'll tell you that one for sure because obviously I trained at a mixed martial arts gym for a long time uh and we run wrestling academy. The expectation of the parent coming into those two different places is totally different right so the expectation of a parent coming into ask wrestling academy is hey I want my kid to learn how to wrestle. I want them to learn some discipline and some hard work and get a little tougher. And you know what? If they do really well, maybe they'll win a state title or get a college scholarship or something to that effect. And in MM MMA gym, so many times I thought, "Oh, my kid, he's really tough and scrappy. He's going to be the next star on TV and make a whole bunch of money." >> Um, and so, right, the expectation of the two different parents doing the two different things is is immense. Um, and I think that's probably a big part of it is what I would guess. What would be your advice to a parent hoping to make their child's fame and fortune by getting them to do MMA? >> That is about the worst job you could. [laughter] I mean, I tell I tell everyone that MMA is is an awful job. Um, you do it you do it in my this is my estimation. I did it because I wanted to fight people because I like fighting people because I love the combat. That's why I did it. But if I wanted to have a real profession and real job, I for sure would have done something else. Um, I always walk through someone. If you said, Chris came to me and said, "Hey, Ben, I want to be an MMA fighter. What do you think about that?" I said, "Number one, it's dumb. Here's why." Chris, you're going to start training. You're probably not gonna take a fight for a year. Okay, good. Then you take an amateur fight. Your amateur fights, that's going to take you probably two years to get through. Okay, once you become a pro, now you're going to have, say, two to three years of lowlevel uh professional fight. Okay, if that six years goes perfect, now you're going to sign to UFC. And in your first year in the UFC, if you win all your fights, this is this is seven years of perfection. Nothing went wrong in seven years, >> you're going to make like $80,000. Okay? But of the $80,000, you got to pay your gym, you got to pay your manager, and you got to pay taxes. So you're you're walking home with, I don't know, 35 $40,000 at that point. And well, if you don't live in California, in California, you're probably walking home like $27,000. That's not a good job. Um, so you know, I' I've only ever recommended two people and it's relatively well for them because I saw they had a small amigdala and they was just a little different. They wanted to fight people. [laughter] >> How how much of your success do you think came from talent? >> Zero. I don't believe it exists. >> You don't believe that talent exists? >> I do not. And this is You know what? This is hilarious. I'm thankful my wife my wife is off uh You know what we're do? We're in Kansas City. We came here after I got inducted all of fame in Oklahoma and came to Kansas City. My wife has a 104 year old grandfather. So we're visiting him. Um so they're actually playing bingo with him right now. My wife my kids. >> Fantastic. >> I know. Great. Right. Um yeah. So I my main argument with my wife is is the talent one. I don't I do not think it exists. I think obviously human bodies have predispositions to certain things and there are certain sports which are very predisposed but uh when I think about talent I think of the ability to do a complex task really really well. I don't think you can do a complex task really really well without a high level of training. Um, and one of the things before we argue this, I don't know if you're going to argue with me or not, but one of the things I always argue prior is if we were to test talent, we would need to test talent out of the womb. When they pop out of their mom, we need to test it because I always say, "Hey, if I give you two kids come into Ask Wrestling Academy, one kid has been sitting on a couch playing video games, his parents feeding him snacks all day, never teaching him discipline. He's a roly pololy. Listen, he needs some wrestling. We're going to take care of him. we're going to give him what he needs, but he's starting way over there. If you have another seven-year-old who's never wrestled, both both have never wrestled, but he's got older brothers. They've tried to beat him up. He his parents live a very active lifestyle. They're outside. They're hiking. They climbing trees. He's biking. He's playing games with his brother. He's not sitting inside. They have healthy, nutritious food. These are two seven-year-olds. Neither have ever wrestled, but they are worlds apart right now from from jump, you know. So that's kind of how I like to think about it. So we can debate if you if you you'd like to. >> No, I look I I think that especially in the sport of wrestling perhaps something that you begin with so early on in life. I mean look, some people are literally built differently to others. Some people will respond to training in different sorts of ways. When you really start to ask what is involved in talent and if you were to think about something like desire to train as a kind of talent, some people just really like wrestling. They enjoy the idea of that. Other people might enjoy something really short. They might enjoy something that's less aggressive, right? They might be a a world champion classical musicianist, right? A classical pianist or violinist or something like that. Uh I don't think that if you just give those two people even with their desire to work hard and their stubbornness and all the rest of this >> if you don't have the desire so it's an interesting question is desire to train part of talent right people have a disposition to >> I would say I would say yes I say yes that's been that that that argument has been proven by uh the sled dogs do you know this one >> no >> the the Idrod sled dogs uh right that they run that big race across Alaska >> Mhm. Um, so they they breed obviously breed the dogs and the dogs I think can have a baby like every year or something. So they don't breed the fastest ones and they don't breed the strongest one. They breed the ones with the most desire to keep running. And so to to your point there's but so so what I would say what I would say to that is it and so again like 100 meter dash or something that's a really really simple skill like that is not uh a very complex task but a complex path there's likely a multitude of things that it's going to take to be world class at that. So, you're going to have to have, you know, work ethic, perseverance, desire to work, to your point. Um, probably some level of intellect helps, some level of hand eye coordination helps. Like, you know, there's just going to be this really large basket of, hey, you need extra amount of this skill set, but which ones do you need? Like in wrestling, for example, um I was incredibly slow twitch muscle fiber. My my fastest ever 40 yard dash was like a 5'8. like I am I am incredibly slow, >> but I found a way to make it work. There's also wrestlers who are incredibly explosive and fast to find a way to make that work. Um, so you know, like of this basket of things that you can have, you may need, I we'll say 20 of 25, but you don't need every one and you could kind of pick and choose from them. Um, so yeah, I I think it's an interesting topic. So obviously I would absolutely I would say people obviously predisposed to being born differently but I I also think the early period in life is often neglected. There's another you guys you know about the Polar sisters. >> Nope. >> Yo man, we uh So the Polar Okay, let me make sure I'm pretty sure I'm 100% right this uh let me make sure. So this guy uh Yep. I'm correct. Okay. So this guy he said I don't think talent exists and I'm going to prove it. You know how he's going to prove it? He puts an ad out and he says, "I need a wife who wants to help me make babies to be chess champion >> and he finds and he finds one, right?" So, he finds a wife to agree to these terms that okay, we're we're going to we're going to procreate and then my kids are going to be chess champions. So, he he he called the shot. He says it before he even has kids, he says and his his three girls, I want to say, were the three of the five highest rated players of all time. Wow. So he called it before he appropriate. >> Jesus Christ. Okay. Well, yeah, if you if you can pick the pocket before you pot the eight. Uh, that's that's >> fair play. Jared, you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem? >> I don't consider a lot, Chris. >> Well, you drank an entire case of Athletic Brewing last night. >> But they're non-alcoholic. >> And that's not a problem. >> Sorry, man. I I just kept chugging. Wait for the regret to creep in. never happened. See, most people like Jared don't want to change what they drink. They just don't want the next day to be a complete write-off. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic Brewing Co. They make the best NA brews on the planet. You can find Athletic Brewing Co.'s bestselling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you. Or best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped direct to your door right now. Get 15% off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbwing.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. That's athletic brewing.com/modwisdom at modernwisdom at checkout. Near beer, terms and conditions apply. Athletic brewing company fit for all times. Bottoms up. [snorts] [laughter] So, I I'm interested like looking back at your um at your career, you went undefeated for 87 matches in a row. >> Yeah. My this is my last two years in college. Yes. >> Yeah. >> What What goes through your mind when you're on a streak like that? Like, do you get increasingly more scared of losing it? A pressure sort of over the top of of things like that? >> Don't think about it. If you did, if you did, you did, you're going to lose it. um you know so I actually I I wrote two I've written two books now uh with assistance of course because I am not a great writer uh one is about my life one is about my sports psychology ideas but my junior and senior year I actually tried writing um another book uh which is about so it would have been my first book right never published it because I didn't think it turned out good enough but I worked with this sports psychology PhD and one of the things we did we sent a questionnaire to every division one NCA champion in the past 50 years So, at that point, it was 1956 to06 with a 50-year window. Um, because I I said, you know, I know what I think, but I want more good opinions. So, we sent them this questionnaire. I think it was like 12 questions. Um, and one of the questions, which was this was really enlightening to me because at that point, I already had one NCA title. I was going on my second and one of the questions was when did you go from good to great? And we were looking for some form of my training ch training changed. I got a new coach. I had a new mindset. Just some something like what made this happen and you know when did it happen for you specifically? And it was really funny because that the question was simple. Question was we want this and we got something totally different and it was the mo it was a question that was answered the most similarly of any questions. Right? So if we got 100 questionnaire 120 questionnaires back you know it's they're all open-ended questions. So you're going to get things that are, you know, across the gamut of what's going on. So many of them said, "Your question assumes I was great. I never reached greatness, but right." So they they all these people who were and if you want to look at wrestling, a division one state champion is like in the 99.999th percentile. You know, we're talking like one of a 100 thousand. There's there's roughly a million people wrestling in America today. There's 10 NCA champions. one in a 100 thousand approximately or something. So if you're going to label greatness, they're clearly in it. And they all were saying, not all, okay, not all, a very large percentage saying some form of I'm not great. I was never great. And so as we read through those answers, it it struck me, okay, well, I wouldn't say title. So by my own definition, I would be great. I've never even thought about I never thought I never considered it. All I was thinking about was how do I get better? How do I beat this next person as badly as possible? And so it's one of those things where the I realized that power was in not thinking about it like to just be focused on the task ahead of you as opposed to and you know like one of the things that I I get annoyed about um is if people say what is your legacy my legacy is not determined by me my my legacy will be determined by what all the other people think about me I'm going to focus on every single day what I think I need to do to get better and what I need to do is for what's best in my life and whatever they want to think of me they think of me. So, that's kind of how all these people are thinking is like I've just focused on getting better and I'm not worried about being great as you would call it. Um, and I think that's like really really powerful. >> Yeah, that's fascinating. I I guess the obsession to just be riven by always wanting to improve is exactly why those people are separated out from the pack. You could probably ask, you know what would be interesting would be to ask people who didn't become uh NCAA champions but were maybe in the top 2% and ask them when they think they became great. And they might be more likely to answer, oh, I became great at this point. Perhaps the lack of thinking that you're great is what actually induces greatness. >> That totally you you I'm sure you've heard the phrase, oh man, rest in peace. My old coach Duke group should say this. Um, if you're if you're green, you're growing. Oh, what was this phrase? It was essentially if you're green, you're growing. So, if you're you have a white belt mentality, dang, I can't believe I just forgot what he said all the time. Oh my goodness. Essentially, if you're you're green, you're growing. Like, if you if you believe you're white belt and you're open to knowledge and learning people, you're going to continue to get better. But when when you think uh you know it all or you're good enough, then you're going to start declining. And so, you know, with our wrestling academy now, we've been open for 15 years and especially in the early days before we were as influential because now a lot of times we have kids from the time they're real little, five, six, seven years old. Um, but previously we saw certain kids say, "Oh, I want a sectional title. I'm I'm I don't need to listen to you. I'm really good. I want a sectional title or I want a state title. I'm really really good." When you know, we talk about state title and state champion. These are these are they're not even in the same ballpark. So yeah, I would 100% agree with once people think they made it or they think they know everything or know enough or they can't be helped uh then generally there's some type of either plateauing feature or decline that happens uh in their skill ability. >> People I think even have a sense of this when they look at the trajectory of a any any person that's on a pursuit to life. The difference between being someone who has fallen off and someone that never made it is kind of fascinating to me. There's a obviously the person who fell off by virtue of having fallen, it means that at some point they were up pretty high, >> but there there is a kind of additional disparagement of oh, you had it and you lost it as opposed to you never even got it. Even though like objectively you did better, but we're so seduced and we are we're so enamored and enthralled by the prospect of momentum and and potential that if the direction of travel is declining, it's going from you were great to now you're less great than you were as opposed to you were average and then you became better than average and then you kind of stopped. I yeah >> in some ways yeah the the person who never made it but didn't get chance to fall off is in a a preferable position sometimes >> man that that's one where I would just say you just got to ignore everyone else uh because I agree you know so many times people use the term washed up to your point that means at some point they had to be significantly better than they currently are but t time's undefeated no one's been great forever and so u you know I I did retire I retired for the first time in 2017 I never got to fight the better guys. So I said if I ever do, I'll come back out of retirement. I unretired 2018. Then I had issues. So I retired relatively quickly again after that. Um but I always just, you know, if someone wants to continue to fighting, which listen, I'm not fighting is a very tough sport. So let's go to football. If Aaron Rogers or Tom Brady, if they want to continue to compete, like what's wrong with them continuing to try to Yeah. They're not going to be as good at 43 as they were at 28 or 32 or something obviously, but who cares? Like they're still they're still elite enough to be in one of the top 32 positions in the NFL, right? That you got to be top 32 quarterbacks to play on the field. If you're not, you're not going to be on the field. Um so that's something that's like, well, that's an opinion of other people. And if you want to keep playing football or whatever sport it is, whatever you're doing, then by all means, like have at us. >> Yeah. Well, I you're kind of on that. I suppose you were nearly You were undefeated for almost a decade, right? Pretty much almost a decade. But many casual fans remember you for one 5-second knockout. >> Yeah. >> What's that taught you about reputation? >> I ignored it in the first place and I can ignore it. >> So, u yeah, I just never I never thought too much about it. I mean for me I love to compete and I wanted to prove I was the best and that's why I you know I retired and I said the only one coming back out is I get to fight someone high ranked higher than me. So um you know I when I was fighting through the Bellator and won championship days um I fought a fair amount of highly ranked guys. Jay Haron was fairly highly ranked. I fought him. Douglas Lima um there was kind of a handful but I I never got to fight anyone who was in the top five. And so I was like I think I got stuck at six. So when I came out, you know, I unretired. I said, "Well, I'm I only want to fight someone better than me. I don't want to fight anyone that's worse than me because I want to try to prove I'm number one." And so, you know, right away it was Robbie Haller, who was I don't know if he's number two or number three in the world at that point in time. But yeah, and that was one where I think a lot of people and some people did advise me, well, don't do this. If you lose, people will think differently about you. And I said, I don't give a damn what people think about me. I never started MMA to care about what people thought about me. I started MMA to see if I could be the best in the world at it. And that's what I that's what I want to do and that's what I'm gonna do. And I listen, I didn't get there. I got pretty freaking close. Um, but no, I'm not ashamed about that at all. >> I kind of been, as I was thinking, watching your journey, seeing that first video you posted, which was like inspiring and harrowing in equal parts. Mhm. >> You have this opportunity for your life to be defined by a variety of different situations. >> Mhm. >> You had the opportunity for your career to be defined by being a NCAA champion in 87 undefeated fights in a row. >> You had the opportunity to be defined by being only the sixth best in the world in one championship and not pivoting on to something else. You had the opportunity to be defined by the fastest knockout. The opportunity to be defined by boxing Jake Paul. the opportunity now to be defined by being the guy that overcame death and got two new lungs and then went back and wrestled within the space of only a year. >> At each of these junctures, you the world is sort of offering you this opportunity to make your life about a thing and >> I it seems to me like you're continuing to like stick your middle finger up at the handshake. >> Yeah, that's that that's not what life is about. like legacy is defined by other people if they want to. If they and if they don't want to think about me, I don't I don't really care. I hope they have a great life and I'm going to continue to live life the way I want to and as full as I can. And um you know I I I I don't know if people consciously think this about me, but I think there are a lot of people who I don't inspired might be the right word by how not bashful I am towards that. Like I'm going to take a chance. If you offer me a chance, I'm going to take a chance all every time. And I'm going to tell you, I don't need anything given to me in life. All I need is an opportunity. And if you give me an opportunity, I'm going to take it. And am I going to win every time? No, I'm not. Or any of us going to win every time. No, we're not. And you know, there's uh there's actually this really good book. Have you ever have you read I don't know if you uh how you feel about this guy, but I like him. And I got to meet him and he's very cool. His name is Josh Medaf. He wrote Childwood Carry Water. Um really good really good book. Um, and then but then it was funny because he's written a handful books, most notable one was Chocolate Carry Water, but then he wrote a book called Finish Empty and it was life from a death bed's perspective and it came out right around the time I almost died. And so, uh, I got to read it with literally a deathbed perspective because I woke up I want to say it was May, you know, I don't know, I don't know the exact date it came out. I got it maybe a month and a half to two months after everything went down, you know. And one of the one of the really amazing quotes uh that it just sticks in my head, so I better get it right is uh the point of life is not to arrive safely at death. I think >> 95% of people don't get enough fiber, which is why Momentous built Fiber Plus. Because hitting your daily fiber target through food alone is actually kind of hard, even harder than your last toilet trip. 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The point of life is not to arrive safely at death. >> Stop worrying about things and get to action. >> Yeah. And there's another good one. There's another really good one in there. Hopefully I get um worrying is like a rocking chair. You can move all day, but you ain't going anywhere. >> Right. So, stop worrying about things. Go make it happen. And that's kind of that's kind of how I live my life prior to this. And now it's even like, dude, I'm yeah, that that's how I'm going to do it. And you know, I uh like I said, I take my medicine every day. I wear my mask when I have to. I'm going to try not to be reckless with my livelihood. I my my plan is to be the longest living double lung transplant person ever. for that. That is my goal in my >> Do you know what the record is? >> 38 years. So I'm going 39, baby. >> Wow. And how old would you how old would you be? >> Uh I'd be 80. So you know, um yeah, that would be uh that'd be that'd be a good good life. And you know, I honestly I figure if I make it like 15 20 more years, there's going to be some new technology. They're they're already starting to build organs with uh your own stem cells, I believe, is what they're doing. And so that would also get me off the the imunosuppressants because those pills over. >> So you're suggesting that you would get another lung transplant. >> Yeah. >> You'd be you'd be down for that. You'd go through it again. >> Oh, absolutely. I mean because the imunosuppressants um are they're a decent portion of the reason why life expectancy is not that high because when you kill your immune system, you cause a whole bunch of other problems, right? Um, and >> so I don't know that, you know, they're they are they're literally building organs with stem cells and your your own DNA. Um, they're probably not very good at it. Yes. But >> dude, I get the sense if if there's a list of people that they want to test this on as a good case study. I reckon an ex-professional athlete is probably pretty high up. And I don't know how many ex-professional athletes at your level have had >> like how no one's going to be I'll volunteer. I'll volunteer to have the lung transplant from my real ones to my fake real ones. >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh >> told my doctor, Irish Chris, I already told my doctor, I said, "Hey, man. Uh one of my doctors is pretty young and he's I don't say progressive like you could tell he wants to make it happen and he wants to make, you know, life better for all the lung transplant patients." And I said, "Hey, man. You got any ideas that you think are going to work? Run them by me because you're not going to find anyone more disciplined and I'm down for it. If you think it's going to help me live longer, I will I will run that protocol. So, you just let me know. >> [ __ ] yeah. >> Yeah, >> dude. You're you're an inspiration, man. You always were. But this is >> it's another level. So, I'm I'm really really happy that you're still here. I'm really happy that you're doing this. Good luck with the the fight I'm going to be watching. I'm going to be watching and enjoying. Uh >> thank you. >> What else you got going on? Where should people go to keep up to date with all of the things? >> Oh, man. Uh you know, I don't post on social media that much anymore. um once Instagram and Twitter and this is my real name. Uh it's not Twitter anymore. It's called X. Sorry. Um I I but I actually I have a movie coming out this fall also. Um about this. It's going to be exciting. Um I don't know exactly when it's coming out yet. Uh so my wife's one of their family friends in high school uh was a movie producer and he was watching my stuff last summer and he said that looks amazing. Um you would you guys be open to it? my my wife had filmed so much stuff while I was in the hospital and uh he shopped it around and the the Henry's I don't know if you know them um at Novo Studios picked it up and so we've done a whole bunch of filming on it and I I think it's be great and I hope it's really inspiring to for people to lead a life where just like I said they're they're fearless they live the life that they want to live not the one that they're afraid what other people are going to think of them so they don't do things they don't take chances um and to live their life as fully as possible so That's kind of what I'm hoping to inspire people with. >> Unreal, man. Unreal, dude. Let's keep in touch. I'm excited to see what you do next and uh let's uh let's talk when the the documentary comes out. >> Awesome. I love it. Thanks so much, man. >> Appreciate you, dude. Catch you later on. Congratulations. You made it to the end of a full podcast episode. 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