Rahul Kanwal on Rebuilding NDTV, Revenue Pressure & the Future of News

Now for decades at a stretch, NDTV was an outlier in the TV news ecosystem. A network which shunned the foxification of news when noisy debates had no place. Now then in 2022, it had underwent a massive transformation when the Adani group took it over and then subsequent expansion too under a new editor and last year we saw Rahul Kaval take over the reams of NDTV as the CEO and editor-inchief. Right now we are in his studio and for a change he's the one being interviewed. >> Thank you so much Rahul for joining us. >> Uh this is a very intimidating role reversal. I'm ordinarily used to being the one asking questions. So yeah thank you for being here. It's fantastic to have all of you over here with us. >> Thank you Rahul. Thank you so much for >> so Exchange for media has sent the ent arsenal of editors for you. >> It's like a chakrau [laughter] that you doing trapped right in the middle of it. Yes. Uh Rahul u you made the transition from newsroom leadership to the CEO's office. How has that uh transition really changed the way you think about journalism? >> So Rohil this hasn't been new in my personal journey honestly about 3 years ago I became executive director of business today while I was at the India today group. That was an editorial and P&L responsibility where I was responsible for building out business today's pivot from being a largely magazine first print brand into a multimedia brand. Uh we did BTTV, we did live stock markets, we did YouTube, digital, social, the entire gamut of the kind of 360 multiverse that we're now trying to do at NDV at a much bigger level. And we also grew the revenue lines more than 5x off uh where I inherited the base ad business today from. So this is a reality that you have to deal with. You need to run a news business which is credible which is legitimate which does the news in the way that it needs to do the news and you also need to ensure that you are financially viable and independent. >> Now in industry circles you are being referred to as the kro kilar for taking over NDTV at a time when it was going through existing revenue pressures. How are you perceiving it? What went wrong? And how soon do you see you can get it back to the road to profitability? >> You know, NDTV is Nita one of India's most marquee media brands. And when internationally people think of uh Indian news, the one brand that comes most often to their minds is NDTV. Uh this is as true in the United States as it is in Africa, in Europe, in Asia and of course uh in India as well. So this is not really uh katra in the way that you position it because this is at the core a very deeply trusted media institution. Yes, you're right. As uh the ownership changed and it went through a management transformation, uh the brand was in a position where the road ahead had to be charted. I thought of that as a great opportunity uh to rebuild a new NDTV for a new India to give this brand passion to give it purpose to give it energy to give it ideas and if and we're just one year uh into this new journey if a few years from now we've been able to succeed in building a new NDTV for a new India a marquee media news organization that many in India and abroad are proud of I think it's an opportunity worth taking it's Katra you know worth embarking upon because you know there's no point if there are hundred reasons why NDTV might have failed there just very few uh which can help it succeed the question is can you find the levers can you do what is required to be done in this age of AI in the kind of fragmented attention reality spans that we're seeing to ensure that it stays credible it stays relevant and it grows that is the challenge I think it's a huge professional challenge all and I'm very grateful to the management of the Anani group for thinking me worthy of this opportunity for giving me this chance to go out and build this new NDV and we've just started so it'll take some more time and I think the results will speak for themselves. Thank you very much. Social YouTube. Social YouTube, social YouTube number one. You know talking about editorial integrity now you know NDTV was forever considered as that last passion of independent journalism. M is it still a people's channel? And the case in point is when the neat protest happened, nationwide protest there. Uh a lot of the student population um they alleged that the mainstream media including NDTV u showed more of the political angles and uh demanding accountability from the government or showing students demands. Uh what is your response to that criticism? Nita NDTV was arguably the only mainstream media organization which had a battery of its top anchors, editors, reporters deployed at Janta Mantar covering that protest non-stop. You know our managing editor Shivar went there, Padma Jooshi was there, Sucharata Kukriti, Suhel from Hindi channel, Ankitiagi was there like the entire galaxy Vishnu Shom was there day after day. So the entire galaxy of NDTV talent was out on the ground covering that protest. It is but natural that uh protesters will have concerns and those are legitimate. Mainstream media hasn't done a fantastic job of conducting itself and that is the reality. You can't run away from that. If you call these students uh goons etc uh then obviously people out in the streets won't like you. But I was determined to ensure that we were out in the streets with the protesters listening to their voice, ensuring that their voice is heard and amplified to our audience. Whether we did this well enough, did we do enough? Could we have done more? Those are legitimate questions. You can't run away from them. But it's not as if we were trying to protesters or demonize them or just try and find fault with them. There were also certain antisocial elements who had crept in and were antagonizing the police. that is also a reality. Some of that data has come out as well. I think that's as much a part of the story. You carry the voice of the protesters. You also show uh if the protesters or some protesters attack the police. I think this is what journalism is. It's not about picking a side. It's not about whether you're left or right. Uh whether uh you to just what the government says or blindly believe everything the students say. I think the whole job of journalism is to look at what's being said. applying your own brain, looking at the story as it is before your eyes and reporting both sides of it, which is what we tried to do uh as best as we could. And that's what we'll do in every such opportunity that comes along. Yes. Left right Congress. This Mainstream media. Foreviphage. students. certific No, producers [snorts] mainstream media. police. Yeah. Um so related to this um what is the toughest challenge in uh leading a legacy news brand according to you? The key is relevance and mind space. You know, as uh we live in the attention economy where attention spans are becoming shorter and shorter like Instagram, reels, how do you capture mind space and attention? And it is very easy to capture attention if you are in one corner. If you're extreme, right, you call the students goons, there will be a certain population you appeal to. If you are fully on the side of the students and you think the government is the worst thing, it's the worst government in the world. It's the most horrible thing that's happened to India. If you project that image as many people do, then again you'll have a very core constituency of loyal believers. How do you find space in the middle? I believe India's democracy >> uh thrives in the middle. This is where our democratic values live. They breathe. I think of NDTV as a big tent of ideas, of opinion, of shades. This is not one Moses leading the way and showing people the path. This is not about what I think. This is about different editors, different journalists, different shades of opinion. I don't have to agree with everything each one of anchors or editors says. You have to give people shades of opinion. Pankage may have a different take at Sama for media on a story. Anita may look at it differently. Roel may look at it differently. You have to be able to appreciate different points of view. You can't say this is the only point of view. I know in some networks that's how it works that the editor and chief says this is my line on the story and expects all reporters to follow exactly that line. I think that is wrong. I think that uh reporters need to report what they're seeing around them. It should not be dictated from somebody sitting in an AC studio dictating and determining what their reporters and anchors will say. And I think anchors and editors should be allowed to voice their own thoughts without being dictated by a central commander. This is the line. this is the WhatsApp group and now this is what you must say. I think that's wrong. That's not journalism. That's propaganda. >> At the risk of making it sound like a monolith, the younger generation think that the traditional media has failed them and the independent uh digital platforms are the way forward. uh now in in this case also considering the kind of adoption digital has you know how everybody's flocking to digital would you say your main priority and your main competition is battling with the digital platforms as opposed to your other contemporaries on TV >> Nita NDTV has been digital first long before I got here >> right >> long before other newsrooms were even thinking of apps this is the OG of >> India's digital ecosystem they have one one of India's best news apps if not one of the world's best news apps their uh Google domain authority is very deep into the Google Google algorithm which is why when you're looking for stories you know the first brand the keyword that pops up is NDTV which is nothing to do with us at this moment this is the work that the fabulous battery of journalists editors producers over three decades have done this is thanks to their effort uh that this is India's digital OG so other platforms are coming to terms with this digital reality. Now, NDTV was digital first, even in terms of revenue. We make more money on the digital side than we do on television. And therefore, this is not something that scares us. NDTV is and has been forever digital first. It's a change we're embracing wholeheartedly. And ultimately, even on these digital platforms, people will go to handles or pages or channels that they connect with. Ultimately when there's so much algorithmic pushes um do people trust your brand? NDTV digital has amongst the highest percentages of people coming directly on the homepage. >> Okay. >> In the companies that I've known just a very small fraction of your daily readership comes directly to the brand. Most of it came earlier through Google search and discover. NDTV is the one Indian news organization which gets people directly on the homepage. that's the connect it has with its audiences and uh we're trying to build on that. You're trying to build on that. You're trying to grow that and that's the effort that's currently underway. So I think I'm hugely excited by the changes uh the digital frontiers present for news organizations. I know that there is a lot of upheaval at this moment. Many will potentially fall by the wayside but I am quite certain that the one brand that will be standing once uh the ruins are being counted will be NDTV. >> [clears throat] [snorts] >> News teams. Hindi languages weekend. forgiven. audience. Instagram. YouTube lifeline, healthcare, anti-aging, wellness launch. Launchpad, career progression, upskilling, NDV, good times, lifestyle, entertainment, films, luxury, automate. pillars community there's a perception you know when I interact with industry folks they say that NDTV isn't making enough impact editorially what would you say on that >> you know people are entitled to think whatever they want. What somebody else working in some other newsroom thinks frankly is of no concern to me. What is far more important is whether those who are in the news ecosystem, those who we are reporting on or more importantly uh those who are watching us whether they feel we are making an impact or not. when our teams were in Chennai covering uh the swearing in of Vijay uh or when we were in Bangalore when the leadership transition happened there were dozens of people coming over to Shivar Viraa Vasuda Wu Gopal saying oh we saw you on NDTV can we get a photograph that is impact what those people think that matters to me what some person sitting in some newsroom thinks of us is inconsequential uh that is real impact I'd gone during the Bihar elections to uh you know these very impoverished parts of Bihar beyond Kishan Ganch there people came up and said interview uh Native India this is in places like Kish and this is ND India and we just about started and I'm hardly even coming on air and anchoring that is how deeply penetrated the idea of NDTV is these aren't this is not a normal news brand these are four magical letters Roel NDTV What some jealous competitor sitting in a rival newsroom thinks of our editorial impact is completely inconsequential. What those who matter from the white house in Washington to Kartavhan in New Delhi to the corridors of power in Chennai, Rajasthan, West Bengal and to the streets villages of India what they think of our editorial impact that is what I'm concerned about. Rivals are welcome to think whatever they want. >> You know connecting editorial impact to also revenue. I want to understand you've announced the slate of new ventures which is from auto lifestyle u datadriven journalism all of that I want to understand how are you prioritizing in such a way that you're not spreading out your resources too thin when there is revenue pressure already and how will you make sure that your core journalism is not sacrificed when you know advance into all of these uh different platforms >> so the first thing that we're trying to do is strengthen the core of our journalism invest in storytelling in Hindi in English on our regional channels in business news that is core and that is most important that's what takes up the bulk of our resources that takes up the bulk of our energy and effort and that is more important than anything else but given the fact that linear television is under pressure and that is uh headwind you can't deny >> and given the fact that AI is eating up a lot of Google search and discover traffic and that again is a reality that you can't deny how do you build a sustainable business which keeps in uh mind these realities. It is there that I think Nita that we need to build up an NDTV multiverse. So we've got NDTV world. I think this is my biggest passion project. >> It's our it it defines the scale of our ambition. >> India doesn't have a global media brand. India doesn't have the equivalent of a CNN or an Aljazer or a TRT or even a CGTN. There is only one Indian media brand that is capable of being India's voice to the world and the world's window to India that is NDTV. When you travel abroad, wherever you go, Europe, Africa, the Middle East, America, they know of NDTV. and you currently have the resources, you have the wherewithal, you have the ambition and the appetite to build out India's media window to the rest of the world. That's what we're building on. It also makes uh sense from a business perspective because whatever eyeballs you get uh they're all international. So, it's dollar denominated. It's not in Indian rupees. That's the advantage in terms of building that out. But outside of uh just the revenue that comes with it, this signals the ambition and the determination of the new NDTV to build a global media platform. It won't happen in one year. It may not even happen in two. It'll take time. But that is something that we're committed to. You know having you know this is almost one sixth of uh humanity. And therefore what do these people think? What's happening inside India? What does the diaspora think? How is the world looking at India? How is India looking at the world? This is a central idea to what we're hoping to build in any TV and we're taking steps in that direction. We're not going headlong and you know booking all the investments in the first few months. We're doing it step by step by and by. But this is very important. Similarly, NTV good times um movies, entertainment, lifestyle. We had a fantastic show called Band Baja Bride which was how Sabisachi became Sabisachi. I mean he was on Band Baja Bride. was on the jury of uh the NDTV art awards recently and he says I hope you know I said of course I do but he said I hope you know that I used to do band baja bride and that's how people got to know of uh the legend of sabisachi we're bringing that back there's highway on my plate the food awards uh the the idea nita is to build strong communities they can be big communities they can be small they can be small like golf they can be even smaller niche like art and photography but these are important communities News organizations need to build strong communities because you're not going to get anything from Google search and discover. You have to have some value proposition that brings people to you. That is very very important. Anika Aker Anviksha uh is inquiry. It's thought, it's dialogue, it's deliberation. We'll take Anviksha to uh Dubai, we'll take it to Europe, we'll take it to America, we'll take it to New Zealand, we'll take it to Australia and we'll talk about what India is doing globally and how the world is looking at India and yes, we will make money. But it's also about thought, it's about leadership, it's about ideas, it's about deliberation. So there are different things that you can do to make money through legitimate means. I think that is important at the core. I mean if you wanted to get a pure play CEO, you can find somebody who comes from a sales background. You got somebody who comes from a journalism background. My job is to ensure the news stays clean and I will do as much as I can to the best of my ability to ensure it stays that way. >> Right. I I I want to quickly ask two quick questions because uh time I don't want to miss any question. One is 16 months almost and um how do you rate your outcomes? >> Certificate that is meaningless. I mean what would you say are your biggest highs and lows if you have to say? >> I think the high is that NDTV matters. NDTV has mind space. It's being spoken of. Uh nobody can deny the strength that they're seeing in the brand. The vitality that they're seeing in the brand, the ideas, the coverage of news, the coverage of elections, the coverage of budget Davos. In some ways because of problems beyond any professional's control had fallen off people's mind space right the fact that you've penetrated mind space that people are looking at you engaging with you caring about what you do that I think is most important everything else is building on it all of what I just mentioned Rohil the art awards the photography awards the food awards or even the coverage that we do we did an India Japan summit recently these are things that take time to build You know the Indian day conclave for example wasn't built in one day. Year after year when you do what you do people get some confidence in your team's ability to pull it off. That's when it really becomes a big deal. We did golf for example last year with PGTI. Um we probably didn't make as much money as we could have or should have on that IP. That's because people didn't know yeah maybe 20 years ago ND used to do golf. Can they do it now? Are they capable of pulling it off? It is when they see that they start to believe. My job is to ensure that they like what they see. Once they have faith in your ability to deliver, everything else follows. You build the content, you deliver like we did the business leadership awards this year. Uh the who's who of corporate India was there, the finance minister was there. Once you've seen that, next year when our teams go out and say we're back again with the business leadership awards, people will take that much more seriously. This year and it's true, it's legitimate. I mean, how can you take away those concerns? Those are real concerns. Therefore, I say it's not what I say, it's what team NDTV does and people will form their opinion not on the basis of what our critics on as say, but on the basis of what they see. You spoke about uh India today and that's a company that you worked with for several years and recently they laid off about 120 employees and this is one of those firms which is not seeing red in their balance sheets yet now with uh declining TV news viewership mounting losses are such layoffs going to be a reality across TV channels soon is that happening at NDTV >> I can't comment on what India today has done uh that newsroom is very dear to me I've spent two plus decades over there. From the promoters to the drivers to the housekeeping staff, these are people who've been part of my family and part of my ecosystem. I care for them very deeply and I uh am very close to them emotionally even now. It's very sad that they had to let some people go. I can't comment on that at all. It's a decision that the management has to take. The difference with NDTV at this time Nita is that um we're coming from a low base given how big this brand is uh in revenue NDTV really fallen off the cliff for the TV channels whether it's in Hindi or English or business as we build our editorial muscle as we build our sales machine we can what we're trying to do is win business back win back what is legitimate legitimately uh worthy of being with NDTV the other big media brands are making much more money at this time because they have stronger muscles. Like we didn't have a connected TV team. We didn't have a YouTube sales team. We didn't have an international sales channel. So as we build that sales machine out, you start monetizing the presence of those uh you know sales resources in these functions. So that's that's how it's growing. But yes, you're absolutely right. Times are tough. uh media economics are deeply flawed not just in India but internationally and the jobs uh of people in management in any of these organizations is to be extremely careful about how they spend money what they spend on to try and ensure that each rupee that is spent is stretched as much as is possible that it delivers the maximum possible return on investment >> and that we're able to chart out a viable path to profitability at the earliest possible. We'll do this the right way. We'll put in the hard yards to try and make it happen and we will work towards ensuring that we're financially independent and viable. >> But realistically, how many years are you giving yourself for this turnaround? >> You know, that's an internal conversation and uh I realized that we I'll ultimately be judged as chief executive not by what I say in this interview but by the financial returns our organization delivers quarter after quarter in the quarters ahead. That is the ultimate litmos test. It's a test that I am uh committed to deliver on and we're working extremely hard across a whole bunch of ideas, some of which we've discussed and some of which we haven't to try and build out alternate revenue streams. >> It's not about blackmail that if you want this interview, pay me money. If you don't pay me, I won't do this. That's not the way to do it. There are proper ways of making money legitimately by building out these kind of uh ecosystems that I spoke about, communities that I spoke about, IPs that I spoke of. That's how you build your business. Prof. talented professionals. anchor equal playing field level playing field. for camera. >> [snorts] >> I So, um, Rahul, tell me, is there anything that bothers you the most? What is that thing that bothers you as editor and CEO of NDTV the most? I think the fact that uh AI is playing the kind of role that it is Roel and that Google search and discover traffic is coming down almost week after week not just month on month uh is a huge concern for all digital news publishers. NDTV is luckier than most in the sense that we have a lot of direct uh traffic that comes straight to the page whether it's our homepage or it's uh the app and a lot of people come directly and engage with the website but that's not that's not something that we take for granted. the fact that there is a massive downturn in uh Google search traffic and discover traffic and that this is upending all notions of uh you know the digital business as we know it that's of concern. So moving to build the kind of multiverse that I described earlier with speed and purpose so that before you get to a Google zero world, you've built out a multiverse which can sustain you because when algorithms decide where brands go or where news goes or where users go, the only thing a media organization has is trust. It has credibility. It has the belief of its consumers that bring those consumers back to the brand's homepage or app. that is all that you have building that is uh what is of um you know immense important importance to us I know it's like time is running out we're heading towards Google zero we're trying to rebuild all that we're trying to build uh and we're trying to do it really quickly so before we get to a Google zero world what have you got which can last in a Google zero scenario okayredility News. Uh, news processes, text, graphic, editing, Finance, HR, legal, anchor. [laughter] Mhm. Morning machine. Philosophically, ideologically, I'm opposed to AI anchors. I believe that there's a lot of use for AI at the back end in news processes, production, graphics, uh automation, finance, HR, legal. So that's where we're using AI, you know, on the app, creating more content, etc. But then you you want to see Pankage faces. If you see a Shivar, you know about him. You know what he does, you know what kind of food he eats, what he likes, what he doesn't like. you know his biases, you know his strengths and you process it keeping him in mind. Same is the case with say soil take anybody padma. You want to feel human beings. You don't want to be talking to a machine when you're consuming the news and that is really important. So your the ultimate person who delivers and presents the news has to be human. I think that is very important. A human connection with your audience is extremely important. AI has a lot of use. The use is largely at the back end. M >> the moment you have fake anchors and AI anchors presenting the news, you've lost your connection to the audience. Then what's the difference between your marquee media brand and somebody else? It's ultimately just a machine that's talking. You've programmed a machine, some kid sitting in some school, university, he can program another machine. What's the difference? >> I I I think it's a bad idea. >> So we will never see a Rahul Kawal AI avar on screen. >> We're [laughter] not even seeing you anchor the main show. I mean so [snorts] I mean are you coming back >> ro you know this is a question that I get asked very often are you >> do you miss because there's so much news happening do you really miss >> you know this is a conscious call that I took Rohill because you can't be coach of the team and captain and want to bat yourself the moment an editor-inchief is also anchoring a daily prime time show a lot of the energy of the newsroom >> gets concentrated around trying to make that person's show shine >> you have to ultimately make a choice Do you want to be uh on the field or do you be you want to be off it? And you have to be okay with letting other brands outshine you. Let them become bigger. I think one of the best things about Prano Royoy was the fact that he was comfortable with the stardom of Rajep Barka and Orno and everybody else in that fantastic newsroom back then that he was okay with other people being more famous with him. Same is the case with Mr. Arun Puri. uh the fact that you had Punka, you had Prabhu Chavla, Shakhar Gupta, you I don't want to take any one odd name, but he that was a legion of stars. It's a galaxy of editorial talent and they're okay with it. You got people I try and hire people who are much smarter than me. It's one of the things that I'm most determined to do. You have to get people across functions who are smarter than you. They are better than you and they add value to what you do. That's how you build something of value. If you try and if you are insecure and you're constantly trying to hire people who are less competent than you are, you'll never be able to build a great institution. And if you see all the people that we've seen recently, >> uh whether it is a Ragaval at network 18, whether it is an Arun Puri at India today or it is Dr. Poyoi at NDV, they were comfortable in their skin. They were okay with others outshining them. >> I think that is very important. I can't be in the middle of this interview, any other review, sales review, uh, board meeting, etc., and running away to try and record an interview for my prime time show. That's not fair. You're not doing justice to your audience. You're not doing because it takes a lot of effort. It takes research. It takes practice. It takes thinking. What are you thinking about? Are you thinking about your show tonight? What you're going to say? Or are you thinking about uh what we're doing with the app? Are you thinking about what you're doing with the website? you're thinking about what we're doing in Nepal or what we're going to do at the World Summit in October. >> So you have to be you have to be very clear in your head and this is not something new. I was um 27 years old. I used to anchor the 9:00 p.m. news and aching to talk and do photos etc etc. I gave that up when I got the opportunity to run headlines today. I just gave it up. And many people Head newsmire stories guide shape. you know from that same CEO lens you know ratings have been suspended uh do you think that is going to further impact the revenues of news channels considering the festive season also the new TV uh rating policy opens the door for uh multiple rating agencies. >> Do you think that is a good idea? The ele the monopoly should be eliminated. >> The rating system, Nita, as you know well and you report on this closely is deeply flawed and a lot of the critique that is directed towards Bark and towards the way ratings are collected and presented uh is valid. But there is one mechanism. The election commission has limitations. the process is not as fair as it should be. But we saw in the bipoles recently, we saw in Chennai, we've seen elsewhere when people make up their minds, results are visible and uh the vote talks. I think this is extremely important that there has to be some mechanism >> which allows for us to determine who's watching how much. >> Mhm. >> You can't say that there is no bark >> and that there is no alternate either. >> Mhm. And there is so much delusion and ego in newsrooms that everyone is convinced that they're the best. You speak to any of the anchors or editors or editors and chief of other organizations, there has to be some yard stick which determines who is being watched by how many people and it has to be a yard stick you don't control. So I am very keen that the Bach rating system comes back at the earliest possible. M >> I'm also keen that there be multiple sources of ratings. It shouldn't just be one. So the government has encouraged other players to come on board and I think the more players we have the better because if you're doing well on one it can be called a fluke but if there three or four rating mechanisms and NDTV is doing really well on all and you can feel how NDTV is doing you can see it in the data then it's probably you and everyone else we'll have to accept that yeah there's something happening here. So we want ratings to come back. It's like fighting an election and not knowing whether you won because you worked hard you know your people went out your pana promotes and brutar this that and you really tried very hard and then they won't tell you who won I think that's terrible we want elections to be held fairly freely and we want to know who won so we want similarly for ratings to come back it's very important because NDTV at this moment is being priced at last year's ratings which is very unfair because it's grown a lot since then >> to what extent has it grown how much has it grown we know only once ratings come back. So, we're keen that ratings come back and we're looking forward to this issue getting resolved as quickly as possible so people can see what's happening. Nice influencers. influencity. market influenc mainstream medals, likes, subscribers. balance. Good sense. interview. You're just slipping towards extremes. When you joined NDTV, it was famously said by someone, you know, I know that NDTV is now dead. What do you make of those comments? You know, I don't think any one person can determine whether NDTV lives or dies. You know, for three decades, a legion of fabulous journalists, editors, anchors, producers, videographers have worked on building this brand. The connect it has with audiences in India internationally is very deep. It is the work that we will do that will determine how this brand stands, thrives, and heads into the future. I know that there are people in multiple newsrooms that would like nothing better than for NDTV to die because an NDV which is alive, an NDTV which is kicking, an NDTV which is breaking news in Davos during the budget uh during elections is their worst nightmare. You don't want a competition and you know who can compete with you. You know who can beat you? You know who can outthink you. And naturally if I have a competitor I'm really worried about. I'd like that competitor to die. It's the most obvious instinctive human reaction. And that's fine. I mean I don't think anybody can kill NDTV. The idea of NDTV is an idea that's very deeply rooted in the fabric of the minds of our consumers. My responsibility is to keep that idea alive to build on it to give it a manifestation in its new aftar which people connect with they like they watch they appreciate and that's what we're working towards and that is what will determine Roel whether NDTV lives thrives or dies and no one person's like or dislike >> has anything to do with that now >> news8 India has a tagline dish republic bharat says nam and ndtb India recently rebranded itself to Bharatka Vishwas. Uh and of course overall you're come getting a new face. Uh tell me what editorial standards and measurable outcomes do you have to determine that uh the channel and the network has actually earned Batka Vishwas and it's not just a rebranding process around the tagline. >> It's very important for indie TV to be a big tent of ideas of thought of shades of opinion. It's not just one particular ideology or one point of view that prevails. That to me is very important. If there's something good that is happening, you should be able to appreciate it. If something is going wrong, you should be fearless and able to question it. >> The idea that you've already taken a side like there are certain anchors or news organizations where you don't even turn up their audio because you already know what they're going to say. It's so predictable. I think that's wrong. There has to be a certain amount of thought applied to every issue, >> every topic >> which is where your views emerge from which is what shapes your report arch. That is very important when things are going wrong >> in our country abroad. When >> uh there's a fire that is burning and you're confused, you don't know what's happening. You know what is the platform that you turn to? >> Mhm. If that is NDTV, then we've earned your trust because that is what really matters to us at NDTV. That when you don't know what's happening, you know, you're hearing different points of view even on Instagram, on X, everywhere. You're hearing a particular point of view. You want the full picture. You want to know what's right. You want to know what's wrong. You want the full 360 perspective. That's when you come to NDTV. That's why the new NDTV uh tagline is Bhat Kaveshwas. So, we've done two things. Nita, we won dropped the 24/7 suffix to NDTV. It's just NDTV >> because when NDTV was launched a couple of decades ago, that time live television news was a big thing. >> Now it's all uh on people's phones, right? You're you're watching TV, you could be on the app, you could be digital, you could be social, you could be on our LinkedIn, you could be on our Instagram. Anyway, it's just one NDTV. >> So the idea is that it's just one brand, one identity, one thought. And that's why it's just NDTV. It's no longer NDTV 24/7. That's one idea. The other is that the moto for the channel is when it really matters. You know, when you when there's elections or there's budget or something really big, there's big breaking news. Where do you go? There's so much synthetic AIdriven >> content generated by AI engines. >> You read that, it looks good, it's well written, but is it true? >> Is there meaning? Is there purpose? >> So where do you go at that time? Our hope is audiences will come to us when it really matters. And therefore, that's the idea that we're pushing out NDTV when it really matters. Come watch us. Be with us. Be on our app. Come to our website, watch us on TV, >> see us on Instagram, wherever. Because when it really matters, India turns to NDTV. That's the idea. >> Fantastic. Thank you so much Rahul for speaking to all of us and patiently asking answering all the questions. >> Thank you. Thank you. Nice having you. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> [laughter]