Quién mantiene los bosques tropicales en pie Diálogo sobre la Tierra en la Semana Climática Londres

to discuss this in order to understand that governance does not begin without recognition. The recognition of tenure is key; it can protect territories, as well as strengthen and improve the ability of indigenous peoples in communities to make decisions, and create good conditions to improve this. But it does not create governance. Governance is not created from nothing. In many places, governance systems have existed for generations, even before those forests were recognized. The systems you're going to hear about today are practical, they're alive, they include territorial rules, community meetings and decisions, collective decision-making processes . They also demonstrate intergenerational leadership, as well as practical monitoring and responses to threats, and they also show how communities care for and use forests. It also shows how decisions are made over time. This connection is at the heart of what we're going to talk about today. So let's have the communities; the communities will continue to do this appropriately depending on how we can support their work. What is done in the communities, any kind of task that is carried out in those places where we are not and do not see what it is, is a way of protecting the forests, advancing the benefits of the territories. We are preparing for this conversation. We often ask ourselves, what do communities need to protect forests? But perhaps for us one of the questions today would be, what does it cost him? What does it cost to support governance systems for this? Perhaps providing long-term benefits that we have already experienced. Well, today we're going to hear experiences from the Amazon, the Congo, as well as Southeast Asia. I hope this conversation gives us the opportunity not only to discuss keeping forests standing, but to listen carefully to the people who have lived and worked on these decisions every day. I would like to thank you today for being here listening to this discussion, this conversation. So please pay attention to those who have practical experience in keeping forests alive. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Margaret. Just to remind you, when we talk about tropical forests, we talk about climate action, but it is true, as Marga has said, we have indigenous peoples, Afro-descendants, local communities that have always sought to maintain and govern without any adequate support, without legal recognition and always with extreme expression. How can we support them? It's not just that there is no governance; there is, it exists. The problem is that we don't know, we haven't been able to see it. We wanted to explain a little bit about how the session is going to work because it's going to be a little different from the different conversations you've already participated in. We're going to use a dialogue called fishball or circle dialogue. Some of you are already familiar with this Fishball format, a dialogue in a circle. Please raise your hand if you know him. The dialogue in a circle, Fish Ball. Well, for those who don't know it, the idea behind this format is good, as it goes beyond the limits of a conversation and would be a closer conversation. Normally, we would have panelists sitting in a circle in the center of the room, and the idea is for them to experience the conversation up close. It would be a close conversation, almost like observing fish in a fishbowl, which is a different format. So we're going to have the panelists here on stage, but the spirit will still be exactly the same as a deep conversation. We'll have time to talk and the panelists will change. We're going to rotate. We also have online participants so that both those who are here in person and those who are online can contribute. Does it make sense? Understood? Perfect. For this session we will be working with this format. First, we will have a more traditional format, with three panelists on stage who will share stories about their territories and their way of working. Afterwards, you can ask them questions, then you will sit back in your places, and we will invite another group of panelists to hear their voices. They will be territorial leaders and we will invite two territorial leaders or leaders from leadership organizations. We will listen to all these panelists, and we will leave an empty chair for any person, leader, or leader of an indigenous organization who would like to participate. There are also donors and supporting organizations that could also reflect on what they have heard and support if they so choose. Is that clear? OK. There will also be a little movement, a little flow, maybe a little chaos at some point, but we 'll adapt, okay? Before we begin, one last thing, well, I wanted to maintain a sense of what it means to know more or less who is present in the room. To get an idea, please raise your hand if you work directly with or for indigenous peoples and local communities. Raise your hand. Good. And those founders, donors who may have the ability to direct capital, raise your hand. Great, fantastic. And those perhaps from policies, governance, governments, uh contexts of influence. Okay, fine, there are some. And someone new to all this, still exploring this new context of territorial governance, someone new to this world? Welcome. Welcome. Okay, now that we know more or less what kind of profiles we have in the room, let's start the conversation. When we ask who keeps the forests standing, what we are really asking is who is managing these forests on a day-to-day basis, who makes the decisions about them, and how we can ensure that these decisions take into account Indigenous, local, and Afro-descendant communities, even when external pressures arise . We will be answering these questions. We are going to introduce them, to call them in alphabetical order. Professor Alfons Mindo is the director of Tretendos DR in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Please, a round of applause. He has held positions since 2017. Alfonso has been a human rights activist since the early 1990s and has more than 30 years of experience working with national and international organizations. Next we have Patricia Suárez Torres, who is an advisor to the National Organization of Indigenous Peoples of the Colombian Amazon or PIAC. They've already heard it. She is a leader and defender of human and territorial rights and comes from an indigenous village, called Murui, in the Amazonas department of Colombia. And last but not least , we have Ruca Sonolingui, general secretary of the global alliance of territorial communities of the Alliance of Indigenous Peoples of the Archipelago, Amman. And Ruca comes from the indigenous Toraya people of Sulawesi, Indonesia. The first question I have for you is more or less similar to the previous one. We have 5 minutes to answer this question. I would like you to describe to us what forest governance looks like in practice, on the ground, in the territory. Share a story from your territory, from the territories that your organizations support or in which you work, that shows us who makes decisions about forest governance and how. Who makes the decisions? Who sits at the conversation tables? How can one ensure that good decisions are being made? Patricia, can you take me up on this ? Well, good morning to everyone. Thank you so much for inviting us to participate in this space. Warm greetings from the 64 indigenous peoples who live in the Colombian Amazon. It is an honor for me to be in this space. In my community they say that there are people who are born to speak, to contribute through words, other people who are born to contribute by doing, and I was born to contribute by doing, and something is happening in my territory because today those of us who have to do things are arriving in these spaces to join those voices that need to connect the Amazon. I mean, Margar said everything I wanted to say. So, that's very important and valuable because it reminds us that indigenous peoples are connected regardless of the territories where we are located. To say that governance did not arrive with the State or with protected areas to the territories of the indigenous peoples of the Colombian Amazon. We have always been there, imagine, right now, those indigenous peoples in these forest regions of the Colombian Amazon, where there are traditional authorities, where there are wise elders who have a system of knowledge and a system of governance from where they have been taking care of life, which is the purpose. with which indigenous peoples were born and that is why we are here. to say that this system of governance that we indigenous peoples create from these spaces has allowed the Colombian Amazon to be a green territory today. You are looking at the map of the Colombian Amazon. These are territories where 93% of the forests and green jungle exist, and the majority of that in Colombia as well, where we, with the support of many of you, are protecting more than millions of hectares under the figure of indigenous reserves. In response to the question, who makes the decisions? In the case of indigenous peoples, the decision does not fall on a single person; it falls on a process and a series of roles that have been established from a cultural perspective and now also from a political one. So, we believe that the decisions that have been made in the Amazon by indigenous peoples have worked, and that's why we have a green jungle, a standing forest. In these territories, decision-making involves roles that are designated as traditional authorities, roles in administrative authorities, and knowledgeable people who have specific defined roles, and the absence of one of them causes governance to begin to falter. But at this moment we still have these roles in the territory and each of them contributes to that protection and maintenance of the standing forest. The story I wanted to share with you here is not a story, it's what we do in many of the Amazonian territories. This is what happens when we go to do a dance in the community. To create a dance, there is a process that must be followed; there is a preparation that each member of the family, the members of the community, and the members of other communities must develop. Each of us plays a specific role to make that dance happen . And that dance doesn't just happen from the moment of going to dance, but it happens before the preparation, from when the chakra is made, the food is planted, then the food is prepared and then the dancing takes place. And that dance also has an evaluation process that shows us how we did and how we will do. So, time is very short and I think I've run out. Uh, I wanted to tell you that, uh, what's the message? I wrote it because I didn't want to forget it. The Amazon rainforests are still standing because there are indigenous peoples, because there are systems of knowledge and governance that we, the indigenous peoples, possess. If the world wants to protect the forest, it has to protect indigenous peoples, those knowledge systems, and those systems that are keeping the forest standing and that are currently at risk. Thank you so much. In fact, Patricia, I have another question for you, but thank you very much for your answer. I'd love to know more about the dance, but maybe I'll say so after this panel . Well, the second question I have has to do with territorial and identity entities or ETIs and I understand that in Colombia there is a formal recognition of these entities. Could you tell me what this means for those working on the ground? This formal recognition changes the game a bit. Um, I wonder if the people now have more control over the decisions that are made, or if it's more of an administrative milestone. Well, this second question you ask us is also an opportunity to talk with many of you here, because this is a topic that came to the forefront last year within the framework of a process, when the recognition was granted under a decree, Decree 488, of the territorial entities, but it didn't originate there. We, the indigenous peoples of the Amazon, have been fighting for more than 30 years for the recognition of our territories as territorial entities. Although the 1991 Constitution in Colombia established the existence of departments, municipalities, and territorial entities, the political will of the governments did not make this materialize. So, for many years, including in 2018, we managed to get a decree issued, Decree 632, which allowed us to move forward in putting our territories into operation as territorial entities, but it depended a lot on the political will of those advances, the external ones, but internally we, the indigenous peoples, had been carrying out that administration of the territory. In Colombia, we say that beyond talking about the administration of economic resources, which many people put us in that scenario, we say, let's talk first about how the territory is administered and then we'll look at what is needed to contribute to that administration, and that's how it was done. The territorial entities, because in the year 2025 with this decree they are recognized and it is more a recognition of what we were already doing as a government. What's new? That's good, there's legal recognition, but it's also that , let's say, now we assume some powers that we didn't have before because there was that reception that there is. We are in the process of transitioning to assume those governmental and resource management responsibilities that previously reached the national level. I should also mention that this process of territorial entities began with this decree; we had been working on it for a very long time. What do we have at this moment? There are 22 indigenous territories that are moving towards this political stance. Ten of them are already in the process of centralization through administrative acts. Uh, another 12 are in the process of being put into operation, but these two are suffering from difficult situations because the distances and the locations where they are and the different political situations, but also security issues are affecting their progress towards becoming operational very quickly . To say that this is an opportunity for indigenous peoples and a very beautiful experience for those who would like to know because it allows indigenous governments to strengthen the exercise of government and self-determination as peoples, but it also allows that articulation and coordination with the entities of the national government and also allows us, the indigenous peoples, to reach those spaces where decisions are made for us. Well, perhaps those decisions that were previously made about our territories didn't work because those who were supposed to make the decisions were simply not there. So, the message, since I saw that the little sign came out, the message I want you to take away is that CETI is not something to be believed. Indigenous governance has always been recognized and strengthened through this political commitment . It is also an opportunity to continue keeping the forest standing because we are going to decide how and when we want to take action to protect life and the territory. Thank you so much. Excellent. Thank you so much, Alfonsia. Now, could you share a story about how territorial governments work in your region? Yes, thank you very much. If I think about forest governance in the DRC, in the region where we are working right now, I see that in terms of regulation there is a double system, a double legal system. So, we have, uh, ancestral laws and modern laws. According to ancestral laws, traditional communities normally have elders who make decisions together, but this process has been destroyed since the arrival of colonialism and the imposition of this centralized system of state governance. So, often the people who make the decisions regarding the forests are, on the one hand, the traditional chiefs and on the other hand, the state officials. And officials often leave us out of their decision-making processes, and we also have areas and lands where people are being evicted from their homes, from their lands where they have lived for years, generations. And to complicate matters further, according to the DRC law, the forest is an area of shared competence between the State, the provinces and the decentralized entities. So, there are three entities competing to manage the forests. So this ends up in a situation where there is the National Forestry Ministry making decisions, then you see that there is the central government making another decision. So, all of this results in a conflict. So, communities are often surprised to see that their forest has been assigned to someone else, to a private company. Well, then it's a very complex situation. And I would also say that under ancestral or customary laws, the only people who dominate the decision-making process are the traditional chiefs, the elites, let's say, of the communities, but some of them no longer live in the communities, but live in the cities. but they continue to collaborate with the traditional chiefs. So, regarding this form of governance, I wouldn't call it governance because governance means legitimacy, it means accountability, and if you think about what I just described, none of those criteria are met. Uh, we could call it management, not top-down management. So, that's what I would say. Yes, if you think about the governance system that is in place today. That's how it is. Well, you talked about the ordinance with three factors: legitimacy, inclusiveness, and accountability. And you also talked about how people are taken out of their communities. Now I would like to talk about the concessionaires because many times when we talk about the protection of forests we see that they are turned into national parks and the communities are displaced. But from what I understand, the concessionaires are like the opposite; they put the communities that live there in charge. Could you please tell us about these concessionaires and the long-term benefits for the forests and communities? Yes, thank you very much. Well, before, when the state arrived, they looted the properties of nature, including the lands and soils, and now the state owns the forests. But now, with these concessions, ownership is being returned to the communities. This means that the communities take control. We have seen a change, a transfer of power; power has been transferred back to the communities. And this is now permanent, because according to this reform that was done a couple of years ago, it is said that the concessions are given to the communities up to 50,000 hectares forever and free of charge. So, when these concessions are granted to the communities, they become the owners of the forests. They can make management plans for their forests and make decisions about their forests. And the other thing, well, it has to do with governance. The chiefs in charge of the governance of these concessions have local community committees, sorry, that are also in charge. And the members of these committees are elected by the members of the community. The community members elect the committee members. which is very good and that means that during this process, it looks good, you see social people, cadets being chosen. Um, we have women presiding over some of these committees, we also have young people presiding over these committees and they are accountable to the communities. So, community leaders are no longer the only people making decisions about forests, but what we see now are collective decisions, which provides more legitimacy and more transparency. And many things change because now the forest is not something external, they are part of the forest. So now, by taking control of the forest, everything improves. It's not just about protecting the forest now, but about protecting themselves too, because they are part of the forests. So, thanks to the concessions, we can now see that biodiversity is returning, the forests are now better protected, and we have also seen that at least 70% of the concessions have been allocated for conservation purposes. But they are also given for ritual purposes. I see that my time has run out, so I'll end here. Ruca, I'll give you the floor again to hear a little history about territorial governance in this area. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I'm going to speak in Indonesian. It is a foreign language. I speak my native language Toraya, but we don't have Toraya interpreters here, so well , yesterday we showed a documentary, a video, I think many of you remember, we talked about children, we saw children swimming in the river. The history of this river shows how indigenous peoples protect nature. How do people protect the future? We have several friends who are here and who have actually bathed in this river. We have Juan Martinez who traveled to the river in 2012, saw the river, bathed in it, and I would actually like to inform you all that my sister Jin Corpus is a member of the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Issues . Yes, she is Jin Corpus from Asia. And also to tell you that we have Kevin. Kevin, Kevin is here. Kevin has also visited this river, the Futis River, and now experienced this indigenous governance system; this legacy is real and this is not something to be romanticized or anything. It's real, it's something real. Because? Because in our livelihoods as indigenous peoples and local communities, we do not see the social, political, economic, etc. differences. Everything is communal, integrated, interconnected. The legal and indigenous system is not only regulated by human rights, but also by the relationship with nature, with other human beings, animals, trees, plants, and also regulates the relationship between those who continue to live and the spirits. In Jin Tim, this river, just one of seven indigenous peoples' governance systems are located in 15,000 5,000 50,000 hectares where there are indigenous peoples. In addition, for more than 40 years there has been pressure from mining companies, pressure from the government, oil companies and others. And now there are many people who come with restoration systems, we do n't know what they want, they come with projects that we don't know what they want to offer and they do restoration and compete against carbon projects. The most challenging ones now are those people who come and promise us that if we accept carbon markets, the money will flow, it will fall from the sky, like leaves or fruit falling from a tree. Everyone needs money. Hey, we also need money for school . Of course. There is more than a million carbon zones in this river. I don't know . about the emissions of a small country, but it is important not to forget the river. It's not just about protecting the river, but also the villages, including farming systems that use fire but don't create problems beyond it. Cultivation, for example, sometimes has a ritual where people can smell the plants and experience, feel the moisture using their fingers, their footprints, because they are connected to the ancestors. So governance regulates when the ritual begins. When to go to the forest, for example, including which river can be used for a shower, which one can be used for drinking water, and also when can a plantation be visited? Because there is a system on the part provided by our ancestors. We can get sick if it's not about systems brought by our ancestors. This is what makes indigenous systems think, including livelihoods for generations and intervening in around 5000-50,000 hectares of forest that could still be enjoyed by the community. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Roca. It is a worrying situation in your area, as you have described, and I would like to follow up with a question along the lines of yes, an independent forest in Indonesia can have different governance systems and jurisdictions, right? So, different systems. We talk about districts, conservation, conventional governance systems , and how indigenous peoples navigate this overlapping system. How can they ensure they retain authority in their territories? Look, yes, these are there is a cartography, in fact, from the 80s to the 90s it creates a system in which the bad influence of technology is used, it is taken into account . that make us fight against modernity. In Indonesia we have always used technology as our weapon, including digital mapping, remote sensors, it is what we have created in it, since the beginning, during the last 40 years. That is why all these memories, the history of their territories, can be shared and remembered. Furthermore, yes, this is how indigenous peoples work, how spaces are managed and considered sacred secrets for the ancestors. It's something we should continue to follow. In August 2000, we worked with a group of young people from all over the world, including from Nepal, Russia, and all regions, to visit this river. And on the last night they were outside saying that if all indigenous peoples lived like this, everyone would be in a more peaceful and tranquil world. The government brings problems, and that's what happens. This Gutik River. Well, it's not just about forest governance, which is complicated in Indonesia. Indonesia is divided into only two areas, uh, forest area and non- forest area. So we have a national conservation work park, one that can also be used for the non-forest area. In that river, that river is located in that area where there are four governances based on the instructions of the government. Some are considered non-forest areas, one is considered and divided into protected forests, and they continue to change. Everything can change. Why is it important? Because there was a map from the beginning. Every time they come they say, "No, we don't want to." All they want is to know how to be independent. That's why in Amman our job is to ensure that the maps are respected and that governments recognize them so that the forests continue to have traditional laws. There has been a constitutional decision stating that forests belong to indigenous peoples and there is only one traditional law that applies to this. That is why half of the lintan areas are returned as forests with traditional law, since some are under threat due to a lack of legal recognition. There are also problems on the part of some organizations in the forestry sector, so they belong to indigenous peoples, but there are also carbon projects. These are some of the problems in the river and in the area where you are located. Thank you so much. A big round of applause, please, for all our panelists. Please, you can return to your sites. Please leave the microphone here. Thank you so much. We have heard different perspectives from three different regions of the world. Amazon, the Amazon, Southeast Asia and the Congo. We have different systems that require; there is no one leader or one specific law that maintains this system of governance. There are many layers and different challenges, so that's what we'll be talking about in the second part. We're not just going to talk about how decisions are made in these systems, but also how they are supported. We're going to ask territorial leaders to come here and talk to us about it. I would like to invite our second group of panelists. I would like to invite Diel Moschier, who is from an indigenous people and a network of indigenous and local peoples for the management of forest ecosystems in Central Africa. Thank you, Diel. Yel is from the Bambuchi community and we also have Levis Romero, co-present, co-chair of the Global Alliance of Territorial Communities, the GATC, and general director of the Mesoamerican Alliance of Peoples and Forests. Devi comes from the Brivamanca indigenous community of Costa Rica. We already know that one person is missing from this chair. Is anyone in this room? Perhaps a woman, a young person who is part of a territorial leadership or a territorial or leadership organization who would like to share their experiences and answer some of the questions we have. There's one more seat. If anyone wanted to approach the stage. Yes, if there are no leaders or anyone else. Yes, it's an opportunity. Okay, go ahead. The question I have for you is, when we think about communities, we think about how decisions are made, but when we see communities where there is strong territorial governance year after year, not just one year, but when we think about this that is created over the years, what is the secret ingredient of this governance? What is it that helps this community to be strong, to stay strong? Diel, may I start with you to answer the question? Thank you so much. I come from Central Africa, from the Congo Basin and particularly from the Democratic Republic of Congo. The question, in truth, is very profound. To the extent that the decision is ours, it is centered on our own life. When we make a decision, it is directly related to our independence, to our own life. In Africa, for example. Well, if you've understood our colleagues, the legal decision-making mechanisms are key, aren't they? My opinion has an impact on the decision-making processes related to indigenous systems. For years I would like to say, well, I can say that I can confirm that we have found ourselves in situations where others made decisions for us through states that decided on our behalf about our own lives without consulting us, but with the current systems of community forestry, we talk about the law, exploitation, and so on. We are there to see how to internalize these traditional mechanisms, how to integrate them into decision-making. Where I come from we do it orally, the oral visual transmission that also touches us, that reaches our sensitivity, which is related to our life, it also means the land, the forest that constitutes our identity for its safeguarding. governance. We have traditional institutions that are also there to ensure the mechanisms for implementing the decisions made by the community. And this is done through community rules and traditional rules established and known by everyone. This is what I wanted to say regarding sustainability. This also ensures the intergenerational transmission of our traditional knowledge. Thank you so much. Thank you very much, Diel. Apologies for this. Thanks a lot. I know he mentioned it. The issue is complicated, he said. A great pleasure. The question was complicated. Levi, we're continuing with you, Levi. Thank you so much. Well, I agree with Diel that the question is quite profound, and to answer it I would like you all to help us answer it as well. And for that reason, I want to ask you a question , so that you understand my answer. Which of you would destroy the only home you have to live in? Think about that. For us, we believe that forests will remain preserved if people live well. If you analyze the three commitments made at the COP, this concept or reality that if forests are conserved, if people live well, is still invisible in international dialogues and commitments. If you analyze the three pledgf, the FCLP, the TFF, and my presence at COP 30, their metric, their measure is how many hectares of forest we conserve and where the people are. We must acknowledge that the TFF timidly recognizes the role of communities by acknowledging 20% ​​of direct territorial investment. It doesn't say it's because of the knowledge, the work of the community, at least it recognizes that direct investment is necessary to maintain this relationship between communities and forests. That's why we, from the global alliance through the Chanda mechanism, are already working on how to measure that 20%, the impact of that 20% on people, on our communities. Because we don't just want to know about it for ourselves, we want to share it with you, because it is necessary that the next few years' plans not only measure the quantity of forests, but how many communities live well around those forests. So, how do we do it in the communities? That's the answer. And here I share with Diel the depth of the topic and I will perhaps summarize it in four points. What's the secret? Our panel facilitator said. I believe that the first point is from the daily practice of our ancestral knowledge in our communities. Point two is the inclusive dialogue of our leaders with young people, with women, with the elderly in our territories. And that's what we do, that's what allows us to have a governance beyond the systems imposed on us by presidential laws, boards of directors, and legal representatives. Dialogues are what shape communities to carry out this governance. Number three also refers to our ancestral practices in our production. You will not find chemical-filled monocultures in our indigenous villages . And from a very important point that is not ancestral, that does not come from nature, but from the dialogue that we try to have with our governments day after day, time and time again. We try today, let's go, tomorrow we try again, and that's daily, time passes, years go by and that allows communities to fulfill this function. So, I would say that by delving deeper into those four points, we can get a concrete answer to your question. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thanks a lot. And yes, this was a very tangible set of ingredients that you mentioned and you gave us concrete things to think about when we think about how to strengthen territorial governance. I'd like to ask you if you have any other secret ingredients that you'd like to share with us. Hello, my name is Freddy Cató. I come from the south of the bay of the municipality of Porto Seguro, where the first table in Brazil took place in principle regarding indigenous peoples. We managed the indigenous peoples despite the colonialism in our country in which all management was forcibly removed . bringing us customs and traditions that were not ours, making us, throwing us out, forcing us into our homes, taking away our language, our dialect, wanting us to stop practicing our traditions and forcing us to speak a language that was not ours, taking away our right to maintain our belief of our people and our cultural affirmation. Speaking of the time period in the south of Batayó Bay. We do not live, but we survive discrimination, massacre, and political corruption within our territories, within our homes. Even now, with this revaluation and revitalization of our youth, the opportunity and capacity are there, seeking knowledge of our constitutional rights within the law. This encourages us and invites us to regain autonomy within the territories of our political and self-sustaining management for our peoples. Furthermore, in our community, as my colleagues have mentioned , the forest is our home, the forest is our life. Without that, the forest there protected, cared for, the river, the sea, the house, the flowers, the fauna, the flora, all of that, nothing, nothing could be built without a well-cared-for forest. We have an environmental preservation area of ​​827 hectares of forest scrub. It is the only place in the country where there is a forest inhabited by Indians, traditional peoples who recognize the value of life. And I have scientifically proven that our traditional peoples, our native peoples, are the ones who promote a future of maintaining life in the world thanks to 100% natural oxygen. Otherwise, there could be no inhabitants without this indigenous culture because through the forest we seek medicine, remedies, the cure. spiritual for our people. Thanks to that, we still use the forest today for self-sufficiency without degrading it. Our livelihood comes from ecotourism and experiences within the traditional territory of our indigenous peoples in Patashú, in southern Bahia. We have been here for 26 years, surviving, for much longer, surviving colonization to maintain our home, which is our life, which are our preserved demarcation territories. Well, thank you very much. Thank you so much for all your contributions. I invite you to return to your seats. Please put down the microphones. Well, we've just heard from people working with different types of governance systems, and we've heard that much of it is built over generations and is built on relationships, institutions, and trust. And it's very difficult to replicate, but I think there are many ways that exist to support this continuous building of trust and relationships. So, I'm going to open a new round, but before I begin I'd like to read some of the thoughts we've received so far. We have over 100 people following us online and I'd like to read a couple of their thoughts. One is very short. Alfons, someone has reflected on your words. He said, it's a sadly common experience in India, in India too. So it seems that, well, that's the reality, some very far from ideal experiences. Well, other comments from one of Serbat's in response to Alfons on my experience in the east of the DRC. Although forestry concessions are free, it is actually very expensive to apply for them, and that is why each forestry concession has been created in collaboration with an NGO. However, sometimes the NGOs play a somewhat problematic role in the concessions because they control the information that reaches the communities, and that is why I have seen that the NGOs sometimes have more decision-making power than the communities themselves, which is not ideal at all. There is a question, although we are not going to do a question and answer, but anyway, what are some of the interests of the communities that are responsible for an active participation in forest conservation? Well, it's something to think about. Well, we've heard from people who participate in governance systems, and now in this round we're going to invite funders and researchers who work in this space, and we have several questions, and that's based on everything you've heard, what are the things you believe really strengthen local governance and what else we can do to support it. From here on , to answer this question, I would like to invite one person I have already invited and two more people in this room. First, I would like to invite Sergio Guzmán. Forward. Guatemala, he is from Guatemala and from Aquapoc. Um, I'd like to invite two more people from the audience who are funders. Ah, excellent. Whether you are a researcher or simply a conservation partner. Here's an opportunity for you to share your thoughts. I would love to have a female panelist. Excellent. Thank you. Okay, I'm going to repeat the question one more time . Based on everything we've heard so far, what do you think truly strengthens local governance, and what should we do more of going forward? Sergio, I invite you to answer first and I invite you to introduce yourself as well. Hello, everyone. Uh, I come from the Association of Forest Communities of Petén in Guatemala, uh, which is made up of 24 community forestry organizations. We are members of the Mesoamerican Forest Alliance, AMPB. Uh, we have a community forest governance model that has been supported by several donors. Well, today's event is hosted by the Tenior Facility for Foundation, and there are several, many more, that have supported the development of this model for 25 years. So, what has been done through these support programs? Uh, several of the brothers here have talked about how the forest is where the people are. The case of Guatemala is similar; if we look at a world map and satellite images, where is the forest? Where is the green? It is where the indigenous peoples and local communities are. Guatemala is no exception. We have 500,000 hectares of forest, which sounds small, because my sister just spoke here about Colombia having 4 million hectares, there are 7 million in Peru, there are many millions of hectares in Bolivia, but in Central America, since we are so small, 500,000 hectares is quite a lot . The community forest governance model has been successful thanks to the support of several donors . One, to strengthen community forestry organizations, right? in using technologies, satellite images, drones to protect and care for the forest. Second, supporting the land tenure model , because when you don't have land tenure, you often have difficulties in continuing to protect it with that uncertainty of whether I will be there tomorrow or not. Furthermore, when you want to access certain credits or certain market opportunities such as carbon credits, in many cases it is very difficult if you do not have land ownership. So, uh, how do donors help the community forest governance model ? They help to justify all these issues of land tenure. to make better use of technology. And you know what else? We have to work with the government, whether we like it or not , right? Governments are governments; they manage territories at a political level, but those who manage territories at the territorial level are the indigenous peoples and local communities. And when they're distanced, right?, you can't work. I believe that the role of donors should also be more about strengthening those ties, because many times we talk about political advocacy and many donors don't like that. Among the commitments is that these resources cannot be used to influence political decisions, but then if political decisions are what give us power, then this political influence is very important and sometimes not. Meetings can only be held, certain things can only be done within limits, but political advocacy is excluded and we believe it is very important to maintain it. Another thing that has helped this model of forest governance, and that I believe should help others, is sustainability. Where we support communities, sustainable forest management is practiced. What is sustainable management? It involves using one tree per hectare per year and returning to the same place after 30 years. I know that in many places they don't want to use the forest because I know that the ancestral ways of managing the forest and letting it take care of itself are also very good, but when we make a sustainable, low-impact use, using one tree per hectare per year and returning after 30 or 40 years, we no longer see the impact. In the case of the forest communities of Petén, one returns after two years; there is no sign of where that tree was taken from that hectare. It's there because we have GPS records of where the trees are. So I think that sustainable management is also important in the environment, socially, because it generates jobs, and financially, because it gives some funds to the communities to manage that forest, because who pays for the management of the forest? Who pays for it? The communities do the work. Yes. And in this case they can obtain a management, a profit from the timber and the non-timber. We use wood and we use non-timber forest resources such as palm trees. And the last thing is something recent in climate finance that several donors have supported, right? And they have helped us enter the process of net emissions reductions. Biodiversity credits are coming soon, and more things are coming. So, I think that support should also go towards those points, but as Levi said, not just the technicalities, but the people. There's talk about emissions reductions, there's talk about carbon, and there's talk about how to measure it, but there's no talk about how people can be involved, how the success of those people is measured. So, there are several. Those are the things I wanted to talk about. Thank you so much. Please introduce yourself. Yes, the microphone works. Hello everyone. Good morning everyone. I'm going to talk to you. My name is Parlan. I am the national facilitator for the Forest Initiative in Indonesia. Regarding the first question about what we should do, I would like to reflect on the fact that in the struggle of indigenous peoples in Indonesia and of local peoples and communities, we face many challenges, and these are not only related to what we are facing on the ground and the different companies; indigenous peoples and local communities are evicted from their own territories to carry out mining or energy projects, among others, leaving behind all the development achieved. And on the other hand, they want to build residences, hotels, or buildings. Those are some of the challenges, the development. We must help them to redefine this situation. It's not easy, as the government says, they say, "Oh, this is for the Indonesian people because it's better for development," but they don't show the destructive side to the environment that affects us now and in the future. Furthermore, the livelihoods of indigenous peoples and local communities are also being destroyed. That's the first thing I want to say. Welcome, Ruca. Secondly, in these struggles , we reflect on the fact that Indonesia has around 300 million people spread across several islands . It's not easy, it's not easy to do this. If we want to fight for and on behalf of the poor indigenous peoples and local communities, we can't do it independently. That's why we have some examples of how to develop life. Indigenous peoples working together in a coalition. We have more than 50 organizations, but it's not enough. This coalition comprises 50 organizations, but it's not enough. There's a communication mechanism for how we can communicate with each other. Everything is shared. In fact, Ruca has shared this before, for example, regarding the social and forestry aspects. We've also talked about traditional law. The forests belong to Indigenous peoples and local communities. How do we communicate the terminology? The terminology must respect their interests and policies. It cannot reflect the interests of others. It must be terminology adapted to the values ​​of Indigenous peoples and local communities. Of course, this isn't easy. It's a complicated process, but it's not impossible. Working together makes it possible. These are the points I wanted to mention because, well, I have five key points. The fourth point is about how we can work not only in a formal format, but more powerfully, more intensively, with a good mechanism in the communities, because out of 300,000 people in 300 villages, 96% are religious. There are Buddhists, Catholics, and there is repression in Indonesia. Those who support us are, for the most part (96%), not part of NGOs and receiving legal aid from a religious institution. If they don't practice that same religion, it's more complicated. We must work together to Issues of impact that can include the entire public so that the public and society understand. That 's what I wanted to say. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Hello everyone. I apologize for being here with such a different face. Well, that's based on a spiritual context, I'm sure . My name is Patrick Corn, and I'm from a third, first, part of an Indigenous peoples' organization based in Brazil, SNG. I'd like to mention that, well, what we were saying earlier about governance, governance depends on a variety of things. For example, the first is the formal structure, but perhaps equally important, perhaps even more so, is the power structure that exists within those formal structures. I think it's also very important that Indigenous peoples and their positioning be recognized in terms of the very low power that currently exists, right? That work is done. And that is in fact due to the low percentage of supporting funding. We must continue to reassess power by helping Indigenous peoples and local communities be on the front lines to fight. I think we could have done better a long time ago because I think This is very important. We already have a delivery structure—well, supposedly a delivery structure—for financing for Indigenous peoples, who are on the front lines, but it doesn't work. For example, in the COPs or in those more formal or high-level spaces, those conversations where commitments are made by players with millions and billions of dollars for climate action. Sometimes, much less than 1% of those billions actually reaches the communities, and that's mainly due to a lack of formal structure and also because there are many systems, many intermediaries through which the money passes from one to another—international, national, banks, NGOs—and finally, what's left over reaches the communities in a small percentage . It's a desperate situation that we must address from the top down so that the money reaches the bottom, in direct consultation with grassroots organizations. Building capacity, strengthening capacities for this, to know how to manage this format, is key. Financing is crucial for the process, to deliver the necessary funding for the relevant change that must reach Indigenous organizations so that the money gets where it needs to go. I'll finish with this. Thank you very much. Yes. Please, you may return to your seats. Thank you very much. We will be closing the session soon. I wanted to read one last reflection we have online, and well, just because the session is over now does n't mean we should stop talking. You can continue the conversation outside. Time for Patrick has been very limited, but he shared a key idea. I'm going to read some of the reflections from some of the colleagues who are online. Patrick has three specific reflections. The first is that the knowledge , values, and spiritual practices of Indigenous peoples, as well as territorial maps, must be documented and formally recognized as essential rights that support Indigenous sovereignty. Second, special attention should be given to nomadic and coastal Indigenous peoples because their identities are often difficult to recognize through conventional systems. This is a very important point, and sometimes we forget it. These communities exist— coastal communities. And finally, research in digital technologies is key to supporting Indigenous peoples' knowledge systems, as well as their ownership of the and their rights . It's very important that technology is used usefully, but also who controls it, who owns it. This is a very good way to continue and, rather, to conclude the conversation. A round of applause, please, for all of us, for all of you, and also for the panelists and our colleagues who are online. Now I'm going to give the floor to Juan Carlos Cinta to close this session with a few comments. Juan Carlos, please. Yes, Juan Carlos unfortunately had to leave. Margaret, could you speak, close with a few words very briefly and reflect on the conversations we've heard? Thank you very much. First of all, I want to thank you for this lively discussion we've had today. A few things I'd like to highlight. Well, to conclude, I think it's been very clear to all the panelists that traditional governance systems exist and will continue to exist. What we do and how we strengthen them is essential and will be essential to keeping forests standing. Governance that is not inclusive has no place and will not contribute to a better future. What What we support must be related to progress and inclusion. Recognizing that traditional practices and actions have a spiritual basis and phases for moving forward, because this shapes knowledge, values, and the essential recognition of forests as houses, as homes. And nobody is interested, of course, in tearing down the house they live in, right? We have to make sure that this home is maintained and preserved for the future. And finally, technology and science are our partners, not our enemies. We are here to use them, bring them in, and integrate them into how we monitor, live with, and work with forests. This is essential for the sustainability of forests in the future. Thank you so much to everyone, to all the participants, and thank you to the audience. What a wonderful audience. Thank you to the facilitator. Thank you so much. Thank you, Margaret, for your last words. What we have heard here today is that when we have governance in practice, it is key. When decisions are made, they should not be made only with formal authorities, but in conjunction with the People who live in the places we've been talking about. Decisions are made in the valleys, in community meetings. You can also see the organizers of this event here. You can see their logos here: Global Alliance of Territorial Communities , Land Portal Senior Facility for Foundation. There will be another portal, another event. If you'd like to participate, see the details. We've finished the session, and I hope this isn't the end of the conversation. I hope you'll continue talking outside over some refreshments. We have a lot to do in these coming years to see how we can improve and protect the systems we have and move forward together to support them . Thank you so much for participating in this session.