Q&A | Kimberly Cummings, Andrea Heck, & Susan Heck

Hopefully your questions can be answered. If they don't get answered here, they can be answered by your pastor, pastor's wife, or a mentor, [clears throat] someone that you can have conversation with whenever you get home or on the way home. So um we are going to begin. The first question is for Susan. How can you encourage a sister who has come to you for help because her husband has viewed pornography? They are both believers and newly married. That is a huge problem not just with men but women now. Christian women as well. uh statistics now one out of every six Christian women woman has a problem with porn. So that's a it's a huge pandemic. It used to be just men that would need help and now it's women too. So just to preface what I'm going to say by that. Usually when a woman comes to me, which is quite often, and tells me that her husband has a problem with pornography, um usually I will ask her if she has lovingly spoken the truth and love to him and warned him of the danger he's in. Uh most of the time, I'd say 50% of the time, she has not done anything. She doesn't really know what to do. Uh or she's done it the wrong way. So I encourage her uh two things. If it makes a difference if he's a believer or an unbeliever, if he is a believer, I've said, "Have you lovingly gone to your husband and confronted him?" So if she has not, I tell her to do that first. And repeatedly do that. You know, in the Greek when it says, "If your brother offends you, you go and tell him his fault between you and him alone." The Greek tense there is you do it repeatedly. It's not just one time. So I would lovingly confront him and I would do it again probably in a week or two. I would ask him how, you know, whatever. So if he does not repent, I would uh tell him that you're going to follow through with Matthew 18. Uh because uh Jesus says to look at a woman uh with lust. He says, "You've heard it said of old, you shall not commit adultery. But I say to you, if you look on a woman to lust after her, you've already committed adultery." So he's committing emotional adultery. And so you lovingly go again and you say, "I'm I need to now bring in I'm going to follow the Bible and I will be bringing in one or two witnesses. Preferably the elders of your church would be the best." And uh so invite them over and say this is a situation and now if your husband becomes angry then that's a bigger reason why you need to get your leadership involved ASAP. So then let them take it on from there. Um, I also have encouraged women to uh get Heath Lambert's book, Finally Free, uh, which is a tremendous help on getting help for pornography. Um, there's other books out there as well. Now, if he's an unbeliever, uh, that's a different story. Uh, and let me preface all this by saying making sure that you're not defrauding your husband. Uh, many men have gone to pornography because their wives are violating scripture. We are not to defraud each other sexually. The Bible says in 1 Corinthians, unless it's for a short time of fasting and praying, and then you come together again so that you're not tempted. And so men have by far usually a higher sex drive than women. And so you want to make sure that you are fulfilling your wely duties uh to make sure that that's why your husband is not doing that. Uh but if he's an unbeliever, that's a different story. So you lovingly warn him, confront him, try to get help for him, ask him to get good counseling, biblical counseling preferably. But honestly, ladies, if he's an unbeliever and he doesn't have the Holy Spirit of God living in him, it is going to be very hard for him to practice self-control. But I would highly encourage him to get help. I would highly encourage you to not be a nagging wife, but to be one who loves your husband physically and emotionally and do everything you can to get him help. I will say this, usually when pornography is not put aside, there are other sins that come with that. Anger, uh even violence, abuse verbally, and it can get physical. And the problem with porn is that it's not just that one look uh of maybe what we call soft porn, but normally it goes to things that are very sadistic and evil. And so, somebody was telling me uh just this weekend, Tim, was it Tim Bundy, was that his name? That killed all those people. it it's he says Ted Bundy started with you know looking at porn. So that's if it's not put to a halt you know our lust just becomes worse and worse and worse. So sorry I know that was long answer. Okay this next question is for Andrea. In what ways did God grow you in your most recent trial of life? >> Lots of ways and he still is. Um, I would say probably first and foremost is prayer. I I found myself just desperately crying out to him all the time. Like I like I had nothing else I could do but desperately cry out to him. But with that too then was um just a heavy reliance on the word of God, on the scriptures because I often found that I I couldn't even put my words together to think straight to pray. I knew I needed to turn to God. I just didn't I couldn't even put my words together. And so the Psalms became for me prayers and I could take what was written there and I could adapt it to my situation and I could use it as a guide in helping me [clears throat] articulate the things that I was thinking and feeling and and what to even ask for because sometimes you know you need help but you don't even know. You're so weary you don't know what to help what to ask for. Um, and then I think it just really challenged me in trusting the promises and character of God's word. Um, I know a lot of scripture, but like we talked about, the trials test whether we believe those things. And so just had to wrestle with them a lot. And by God's grace and kindness, he brought a lot of scripture to my mind early on. Um, and I know that has to be the Holy Spirit just bringing it to my remembrance. And um and I would say [clears throat] some of that was scripture I had endeavored to commit to memory and some of it was scripture that just had was in my mind because I had studied it a lot. [clears throat] Women's Bible study, Sunday school classes, sitting under the preaching of the word. And so all of that in my mind the Holy Spirit then used in my time of need. And so I think my my prayer life is so much greater than it was. my reliance on the Lord and [clears throat] not trusting my feelings. And I feel like I'm still working on all that. You know, it's not like one and done, like, okay, checked off that box. I'm good. I'm still still having to learn those things and still having to rely upon him. But I have seen his faithfulness in so many ways that that has bolstered my trust in his character and his promises. >> Okay. Thank you. The next question is for Kim and this is kind of there there are two questions that are similar so we're just going to take care of them all at one time. Okay. Uh the first one is how can I soften my heart when I am a second choice being intentionally left out by friends? And then this is the followup not by the same person. I believe my family uses kindness, tender-heartedness, and is a joy to the mission ministry. But it seems like we are only ever called on to work, never to be included in the fun events or invited to them. It hurts. It's bothersome sometimes. At what point is your church family abusing the use of your spiritual gifts? What can I do to help my kids feel better about it, too? even called on by individuals within the church. We drop and go, but that person won't speak to me again until a need arises. >> There there's definitely some different facets to those questions, but there I I do feel as I was thinking about this, there's a a similarity and there's a thread. Um, one of the things that I really worked with my women this year is helping them to be providential thinkers. And by saying that, you go, "Oo, what does that mean?" Simply to think about how God is allowing a situation to come into your life for a purpose. And not only does not only for that purpose, but also when we start thinking providentially, we are going to start thinking about other characteristics of God and who he is in the process. And so it draws us to think about the Lord more and what he may be up to and resting in that. And there are a few uh scripture verses that I wanted to uh look at with you. First of all, Proverbs 18:24 says, "A man of too many friends comes to ruin, but there is a friend who sticks closer to a brother." And we know that Christ is that friend. And there there's an aspect of loneliness that's in this conversation or these questions as well. And we've all experienced loneliness. If you've been a pastor's wife for a year or less, you will experience loneliness because you're in a very unique position. But uh I love what Psalm I turned too far. Psalm 68. Let me get the reference there. I have a little heart by it. And it's verse six. It says, "God makes a home for the lonely." >> And I love that because we are to be at home and content with our relationship with the Lord first and foremost because he is enough. He is sufficient. Does that exclude us from having relationships? No. We're called to that as well, right? We've looked at that all weekend. But when you're not invited, when you're not included, if you're thinking providentially, maybe the Lord's protecting you from something, maybe they didn't invite you because they know you wouldn't want to participate in something. Maybe they're going to watch a movie and they know that your standards are such that you wouldn't want to be at that movie. And so, we can be thankful. Um and even in those lonely times we can be thankful because we know that there is one that will never leave nor forsake us. And so in that just cultivate that relationship with the Lord. Now in serving others we need to make sure we are mindful to keep the balance of managing our homes and as well as serving within the body of Christ. And if you're feeling like uh you're being asked and dropping, you know, to your everything to serve, evaluate your home life and your family life and make sure that you're not neglecting something there. Uh that's very important because it's easy to drop and go and do, right? But we need to make sure that we're also not leaving something behind in the process. And so with that, I would make sure that you remember it's a privilege to serve, but there is a season when we can say no. But in the context of the question that was asked, please guard your heart that you're not doing it in a way that is retaliating um or getting your pound of flesh, >> but that you've examined and seen that maybe you don't need uh to do everything right. We don't. We're not omnipresent. We can't do everything. With that being said, I was always known as the friend to the friendless growing up. And I would seek out those people that looked lonely. I would seek out those people that look like they needed a hug. I would seek out those needs within the body and you become that friend. >> Right? And so it's really about who we become and what we give and not so much what we get. And then that puts the focus less on us and more on others and ultimately the glory of God. Sorry that was long but it was it was like three questions. So, that was that was awesome. Very good. Very encouraging. Okay, Susan, where do you start to disciple another sister in Christ if they want to grow in knowing more about the word? Well, I have a whole booklet on that and teaching on YouTube, but basically when I'm meeting with a person for the first time, the first thing I like to do is hear her testimony of how she came to faith in Christ because having uh been thinking I was saved and I was not. Uh I understand the the mental ascent without the heart following. So I want to make sure that she has marks of a genuine believer. So, usually if there's a question in my mind after hearing her testimony, I'll ask some follow-up questions. Do you love God's word? Do you I ask her about her devotional life? Things like that. Uh, and then I go through the Titus 2 uh curriculum. I ask her if she loves her husbands, love her children, if she's pure, keep her at home, good and obedient to her own husbands. And if husband, not husbands, sorry, one husband. And uh and if she answers, you know, like if I ask about her, like I had a woman one time, I said, "On a scale of uh 1 to 10, do you love your husband?" 10 being your red hot. She goes, "No, I'm a zero. I hate him." It's like, "Oh, goody goody." So we went through the excellent wife and at the end of that three-year discipling through the excellent wife. I said, "Uh, do you on a scale of 1 to 10, do you love your husband?" And she said, "I'm a seven." I was like, "Good." So, uh, I usually ask a lot of questions. What's their greatest trial they're going through? uh what do they hope to gain from our time together and things like that. And then from there is where I usually go in wanting to uh disciple her. So it could be a myriad of things. But if it her desire is to know the word more, I try to get her to reading through the scriptures systematically. Uh three chapters a day and five on Sunday will get you through the scriptures once. That's really minimal in my opinion, but at least she's reading the scriptures. And then if it's if it's challenging for her, I'll have her uh look at things that she can report back to me, like what did you observe this week? Uh one woman recently wanted to spend more time in the word. And I said, "Every day, I'd like you to write down one thing that you'd never seen before." And then when we disciple, you can share that with me. And so that's one way. Of course, scripture memorization is another way to get them in the scriptures. Uh those are the two main ways that I know get her involved in a good lady's Bible study. But there's a myriad of books out there, but I don't have time to talk about them all that I use in disciplehip as well. So that's the beginning. >> My top two books I use, I would say definitely Martha's The Excellent Wife. Most women have struggles in their marriage. Oh goodness. Outside of that, it it used to be Trusting God by Jerry Bridges. I am use I had just finished Consider the Lilies by Jotty Artanis, which I think is excellent on anxiety and worry and fear. maybe maybe better than Jerry's. I don't know. It's hard to compare. So, uh I also like Thomas Watson, The Art of Divine Contentment. I'm sorry that's three and not two, but that changed my life. >> Teaching women to be content. Yep. >> Very good. Thank you, Andrea. How do you feel about Christian contemporary music? For example, Brandon Lake, Chris Tomlin, Phil Wickham, CC Winon, [clears throat] [laughter] ask the musician up here. Um, well, I will say off the top of my head, I don't I don't necessarily know anything that Brandon Lakes sings. So, I, you know, I'm actually not going to focus in on the individual artists. I will say this, music is a gift from the Lord. He has made us in his image. And one of the ways that we reflect that image is in our creativity. We have numerous psalms where we're told to sing a new song. [snorts] One of the ways that we glorify God is by writing new music. And every time we create music, we reflect the creative genius of our s of our creator. So [clears throat] contemporary music well the word contemporary just means recent. But I think what's being asked by the question is the contemporary music industry and what it is producing. And I will say that's a very very very broad category. Um we have some modernday hymn writers who are writing phenomenally sound theologically rich uh lyrics beautiful music. We also have some contemporary songwriters that are writing things that are heretical and man centered. And so I would say I'm not going to give you a checklist of which artists are okay and which artists are not. Although if you want to talk privately, I'd be happy to, you know, we can we can discuss some of that. But I will say this, [clears throat] because it's new doesn't necessarily make it good or bad. The newness of the music is not what we should use to discern whether it is good or bad. Likewise, the oldness of the music does not mean that it is good or bad. There are some very old hymns that are in our himynelss that are terrible. And there are some that are wonderful. [laughter] Just because it's old doesn't mean that it's good. Now, many many good hymns have stood the test of time because they are excellent. The lyrics are excellent. the music is excellent. So, we've got to use better um criteria to determine um the music that we listen to. First and foremost, the lyrics have to be biblically sound. It has to reflect the truths of God's word. Now, that doesn't mean it has to be full of big fat theological words. We can use very simple language. Um some of our children's songs are very simple but they they communicate profound theological truths. Secondly, the music needs to be such uh if we're talking about Christian music, most of the music that um like the music that we've done this week, we have chosen not just it's theologically sound. Yes, it's by artists who are theologically sound. So they are not heretics or associated with heretics. But also it is singable. Some of the music that's on the radio um is very entertaining, but the purpose of music is to glorify God, not to entertain. It's a joy that it's entertaining, but that's not its primary purpose. And so, we choose music that has a melodic line that we can sing. Um it should be within a range that the the common folk in the audience can sing. Um, now you know the person asking the question might be wondering about the radio station. You know what's on the radio? Um, personally I have found that most of what is on the radio. Um, just in our area it's called K Love. I don't know what you guys have here. Um, most of what's on there I don't find to be theologically sound and produced by artists that are theologically sound and singable. And so I tend [clears throat] to avoid that. I tend to use things like Pandora and Spotify to curate my own playlists, my own songs. So I can thumbs up, thumbs down, you know, add a song, take a song out, I can curate it, right? And so the algorithm, whatever that is, you know, it decides, oo, is this song a song she's going to like? And every now and then it gives me one that's terrible and I'm like, thumbs down, you know? Um and um and over time you begin to identify artists. And then of course as we learn about artists, who are they affiliated with? What churches are they affiliated with? Things like that. But something that we should probably keep in mind is that when we listen to a song, whether it's on Pandora or Spotify or even at your church, if you sing it, every song you sing has to be reported to uh CCLI. I can't remember what that stands for. Christian contemporary licensing something I don't remember anyway and those artists get royalties for those songs. So when we listen to artists and songs that are not god-honoring we are whether we intend to or not financially supporting those artists. [snorts] I don't want to be furthering heretical teaching by the music that I listen to. So I am looking for theologically sound lyrics. And if you don't know if if you don't know the word well enough, find a sister who does or you're maybe you have a worship pastor at your church or a worship director or somebody or maybe your pastor and you can sit down and say, "I really like this artist. What do you know about them? Are these lyrics sound?" It's a great disciplehip opportunity and then you can over time build your own discernment and and then you can learn to identify which artists are sound and which are not. Okay, Kim, is living in sin a terrible sin? And why? So, there's two ways that this question could be interpreted. Living in sin could be um I'm living a gluttonous lifestyle. Well, yes, that is terrible. But I think that what is being asked here is living in sin being meaning cohabitating a guy and a girl living together before marriage a sin. And that's what I'm gonna run with [laughter] because the first the first assumption living in sin means that you don't hate your sin and that you're going to to reside in that you're going to keep doing it instead of putting off a sin. Do do we do that perfectly every time? No. We'll fall back into a sin possibly and then we repent again. We are to live a life of repentance. Repentance does not just exist upon salvation. We are continually repenting. So now, if you're speaking of living in sin as two people living together prior to marriage, scripture is very clear with that as well. We see that in one of my favorite verses, which is going to sound really weird when I read it, but [laughter] uh it's 1 Corinthians 6:9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, which would be what we're talking about here if living in sin is what you're talking about. um fornicators, nor idolattors, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. But here's the hope, ladies, because you might have fallen under not just fornicator here, right? And since we're talking about living in sin in a broader context as well. So, I love this because verse 11 says, "Such were some of you, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and in the spirit of our God." And so, once you have been saved, you look differently and you will have a hatred for those sins that are mentioned. and all of the sin that is mentioned in the Bible, whether it is a sin of omission or commission. Very good. Okay, this next uh these are two questions that are very similar, so we're going to combine them for Susan. What does biblical courtship look like? And how can I biblically examine my heart to see if someone is a potential courtship or just a brother in Christ? Well, I'm not the courtship expert even though Dr. Kurt and I we courted dated whatever that is. But um I do know one of my children um dated, the other one courted because her fam her her uh boyfriend's family believed in courtship. So I got to see a little bit of both. So thankfully Charles chose her and that was good. So, the one he liked before her, I said, "Run as fast as you can like a gingerbread man. Get away from her." And uh he did why he chose Annie cuz he said, "She reminds me of you, Mom." So, um but anyway, he uh he listened to me and he fled from the other one, which I'm so thankful for because I hear she still does not follow the Lord. So, um anyway, and we grilled Andy for two weeks before. So, so Andrea came to Oklahoma for two weeks. And my husband and I, we we grilled we talked. Yeah. And then he had to go out there and live in Washington for three months. And your parents really uh Yeah. grilled him, too. Her father, you know, worked for the sheriff's department. So, they checked out his background, everything. But that was dating. Uh my daughter, she courted with her uh now husband. And uh so we we I wasn't really even familiar with what courtship was. But um anyway, they had definite boundaries. They were never to be alone, if they were at her house, you know, of course, we didn't allow that anyway to be back in a bedroom or anything. But I will say with Dr. Kurt, he called it courting. And uh when we first met, I had some questions to ask before he would go further. And then uh when we got together our second time, I had four pages of questions before I would go further. theological uh practical, how do you practice your faith? And then just simple things like who have you dated and why did it end? I had ask him tons of questions. He also had tons of questions. So after uh our tons of questions, then we decided we'd start quote courting. That was a little bit different because I lived in Oklahoma and he lived in Illinois. So most of our courting was on Skype at that time. So, I'm not really that familiar with quote the courtship that is termed today because I didn't do it. Neither did my children except for the daughter who was courting uh her husband. Um I would say this one book that I would highly recommend if you're going to begin to date someone is uh five questions to ask before you get engaged by David Palson which is very very good. Uh it asks five questions but has a tons of tons of questions after each question. Uh if you're a young woman, I would certainly encourage you to read Elizabeth Elliot's Passion and Purity uh on remaining pure during your dating courting time. So if either one of these girls have more on courtship, I will hand the mic to them. So um anyway, that's what I did. I also interviewed all of Kurt's elders about his reputation. I interviewed three pastors that had known him for 20 to 30 years. And I also got counsel from three pastors before I said I do. I do. So >> okay. >> Did you answer the second part? >> I think so. I don't know. What was the second? >> Um Oh, how do you tell the difference between is it somewhat potential courtship? Is it a potential courtship or is it just a brother in Christ? Like you know what? >> I think asking those five questions by David Palson, you guys agree. Those are very good. Uh just to see if you would be even want to go a step further. So I was I would go to those for sure. But I think you can tell I mean I have to be honest. I was not looking for a husband at all till Justin Peters called me and said, "I think I have someone for you." And I said, "Justin, what is your problem?" And uh so anyway, Debbie and I met him and uh I made Debbie talk to him the whole time and I just looked like this the whole time like I I am not interested in you. Don't worry, that'll be fine. And uh so then we met the next morning and then two weeks later we met again. I was speaking somewhere near where he was at a founders conference. So but after two days of grilling him with my 40 questions, I was smitten. So uh for someone who said, "What are you doing?" Oh, I'll follow you wherever you go. So it was pretty pretty I fell pretty fast I have to say. So [laughter] I knew he was going to be more than a brother after two meetings. So yeah, [laughter] but I would say it's those questions, right? It's in the process of getting to know that person, asking those hard questions that you'll you'll discern, is this someone that I can continue courting, dating, whatever you want to call it, or he's just a brother in Christ and I'm going to love him as a brother in Christ and that's all. Be objective. [laughter] Very good. [clears throat] That's really a good topic for like a breakout session or a plenary session. I need to remember that. I don't know where Leela is, but help me remember that. Write that down, Leela. Um, okay. Andrea, what is the difference between a good communicator and a good teacher? And how can I guard my heart to what I hear? That's a good question. I would say communication is a very broad category that includes many different forms of communication. Teaching is one of those forms of communication. So a person might be a good communicator in another form of communication but not as a teacher. Now all teachers are good communicators um in whatever specific capacity the Lord has gifted them equipped them. Um, for example, so an example of good communication, an actor on a stage is a good communicator, but that's not the same as teaching, right? To be a good or effective communicator, you are going to be successful in transmitting to your audience what you want them to come away with, right? So if you want to communicate a particular emotion to be good at it, to be effective at it, you will be successful in that audience member, whoever's hearing you, they're going to perceive that emotion. They're going to you're going to elicit that emotion in them. as a teacher and I'm going to define it very narrowly as a teacher of God's word. For me to be a good teacher, I have to be effective in imparting to my audience what the word of God has to say. Not my opinions. It's not my oh what what does it mean to me? That's not No, it's what does God say in his word? what did he intend when he wrote these words? And I have to be faithful to the text and then communicate it in such a way that my uh listener understands and is then able to take what they have heard and appropriate it as their own. Now I will say as teachers of God's word, we are entirely dependent upon the Holy Spirit working in the hearts of those we teach. So those who are in our audience who do not possess the Holy Spirit because they are not saved do not yet possess the ability to understand the word. And so there will be some ineffectiveness if you will not because of what the teacher is or is not doing but because of the listener's capacity to receive it. But my job is to faithfully communicate what is in the text and rely upon the Holy Spirit to do his work in the hearts of those who hear. And so the Holy Spirit can take even my fumbling mess when I when I don't always do a good job and can use that in the hearts of the listener. But broadly communication is a huge category with lots of forms of communication. Teaching is one form of communication. And to be good at it, you have to be effective um successful in imparting whatever it is you're imparting to your audience. >> Very good. Thank you. Kim, how do you best serve the church when you have little ones? How do you make sure, [clears throat] sorry, how do you make sure you are fulfilling your ministry at home while also participating in the body of Christ? >> That's a really good question. I think often times we allow the pendulum to swing too far one way or the other and we and I want to be careful how I word this. We say our family is our ministry and that is true but we also have our ministry to the body of Christ. So how do we balance that when we have littles? Because the one anothers in scripture are particular to the edification of the saints within the body of Christ. Well, your ministry in your home to littles, they're not the body of Christ yet. So there's there's a se there is a separation to the best that I can see. So what you want to do is first of all look at your priorities. the Lord first, your husband, your children, your home, and then your ministry, right? And so, you want to constantly be evaluating the season of life that you're in. And if you have littles, my best counsel to you is as you are training them is that you train them by letting them see you do the one anothers. and so do one another that they can participate uh with you in. So I learned that from my mother in the most excellent way. I saw her serving over and over and over because she took us with her and we loved it. I like going to the nursing home. Why? because my mom took me to the nursing home and then I would ask to go to the nursing home when she didn't have time to go to the nursing home because she developed that love in me. When my children were little and I started taking them to the nursing home, I realized what a job that was because and things that they were having to learn. They had to learn to sit and be a good listener in a nursing home because these sweet souls are sharing their burdens. And these little kids are wanting to wiggle and run around and so there's training that takes place while you want another. We can do kill two birds with one stone sometimes, right? So, uh there were other things that my mother uh showed me to do. taking meals. She didn't just cook the meal. She let us participate in cooking the meal and take the meal to the family and see that family in need. And so I'm a visual learner. I was seeing all this and I was taking it in and the Lord has used that in my life to this day. So there are things that you can do with your family that don't just aren't neglecting them, but yet are training them in the way that they need to go. Um, there are just different seasons of life. There are seasons of life when I cannot do the things that I could do. When I'm my most healthy, uh, if I've had surgery, I'm going to step back. if I've had a loss in my family, someone else is going to maybe teach Bible study for a little bit. You know, there's just things that we have seasons. Um, we have a pretty empty nest and so we have we have a 91year-old in our home. [laughter] So, so it it we don't have children. Let's just put it that way. Um, so we are freed up in the evenings to do a lot. When our children were little, our evenings looked different. Uh, they centered more around the time that we had when they were home. And we weren't leaving them at home to go and do ministry. Um, because we needed to be at home with them because that was our time to spend training and encouraging and all of those things. Did I answer all? Okay, Susan, how do I live my life knowing my daughter who is 21 does not love the Lord? I pray for her heart to soften every day. Is there anything else I can do for her? That's a good question. Very common question, especially in our day, which I think it's over 50% now of adult children have canceled their parents. Now, this one that's asking the question, her daughter still, I'm assuming, speaking to her mother. Count that as a blessing. I don't think a week goes by now that I don't counsel or disciple someone whose adult child will no longer have anything to do with them. So heartbreaking. Um, one of the things I would encourage you to do besides praying is fasting and praying. I would also encourage you to just shower her with love. uh be with her as much as you can. Let her see Christ in you. Uh spend as much time with her as she will allow. Uh I also think a very good book is by Jim Newheiser on how to parent your adult children. Uh that's a very helpful book on uh reaching out to your adult children and how to parent them because it is a challenge once they leave home and what is our uh biblical responsibility. They're no longer under our authority. uh but they still are our children. And so how do we parent them? And that's a very good book. Um other than that, I would just say don't ever lose hope. Do not ever lose hope. Um it may not happen now that she comes to faith, but you never know. Um I have a friend, one of my mentors, and her son still has not embraced Christ, but every year on his birthday, she writes him a letter. She puts it in a box and upon her death um she wants him to read all of them. And I know another lady who prayed fervently for her daughter and uh she finally passed away but through her mother's death she came to faith in Christ. So and she's now serving the Lord. So don't ever lose hope. There is always hope. And one thing I want to add to what Kim said about children. Uh Charles told me one time, he said, "Mom, the reason I'm in ministry is because I saw how much you and dad loved it." And so I do agree with her 100%. Take your kids with you. Uh they they will learn to love all of it. And uh so it just does mean that's part of our parenting and training with our children. I I will add to that, too. I was talking with my middle son, Josiah, uh just recently, and and someone was asking him, "Why do you want to go into ministry and and when did you decide that?" And he said, "I went with my dad to visit a child in the hospital and I watched him and I thought, my dad has the coolest job in the world. He gets to take care of people." He said that was the moment he was like, "Why would I do anything else but take care of people?" And and that just that it it was watching his dad just love people and love the ministry. Just love it. >> Was beautiful. Okay, Andrea, how do you really feel about our president? [laughter] >> Your mother-in-law gave you this question. I feel >> No, I actually asked I said I I want to do this question. I want this question. >> Okay. Okay, good. >> Yeah. So, how do I really feel about our president? Okay, I'm going to answer this in a roundabout way. So in Romans 13 we are directed uh every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities for there is no authority except from God and those which exist have been appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists that authority has opposed the ordinance of God and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of that authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same, for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword in vain, for it is a minister of God twice. Those who are in authority are called ministers of God. An avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. Therefore, it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of that wrath, but also because of conscience. And then he goes on to talk about paying your taxes, rendering to whom taxes to whom taxes are due, honor to whom honor is due. And then in first Peter, [clears throat] the portion just before what I taught um excuse me, let me find Peter here uh in chapter 2. He says, "Be subject to the uh for the sake of the Lord to every human institution, whether as to a king as one in authority or to governors as sent by the king for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do good. For such is the will of God, that by doing good you may silence the ignorance of foolish men. Act as free people, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as slaves of God. Honor all people, love the brethren, fear God, honor the king. Now, bear in mind that when Paul was writing to the Romans and Peter is writing to these pilgrims dispersed all over um what is now Europe, Nero was the king. Nero >> like utterly wicked. Um on par with Hitler. I I mean it like utterly wicked, deranged. And Paul and Peter are saying, "Honor the king." in uh first Timothy uh Paul says if I can find my way there. I'll find my spot. I'm in the wrong letter. [laughter] That's why. Okay. Um, okay. Chapter 2. He says, "First of all, then I exhort that petitions and prayers, requests, and thanksgiving be made for all men, for kings, and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity." So, we know from the scriptures that, and this is just three scriptures, but there's plenty more, that God appoints the men and women who are in leadership over us. And we are told to honor them whether they are godly or they are wicked. It's the same concept we talked about in my lesson. We treat our masters with respect even if they're crooked. At the end of the day, it does not matter what I think of our president. It matters that I obey God's word, that I be respectful, that I treat him with honor, and that I pray for him. I pray that our president will be wise and not foolish. That he will speak with wisdom and not foolishness. That he will make decisions that are for the welfare of the country and not our detriment. When the Israelites went into captivity in Babylon, they were told to stay there, to plant themselves there, and to work for the welfare of that nation. So, I know that the question is probably asking my opinion about President Trump. It doesn't matter what my opinion is. It matters what God's word says and I am to treat him with honor and respect. I can be honest. I can say when he has made a foolish decision or spoken foolishly. I can also commend him when he does something that is righteous and just. But I also know, and I don't think it takes a whole lot of discernment to say he does not know the Lord. His greatest need is salvation. And if he does not turn to Christ for salvation, he will spend eternity in hell. And that ought to crush me. It ought to elicit compassion for him. He does not have the Holy Spirit guiding his decisions. It's hard to make wise, righteous decisions when you don't have the Lord guiding you. And so I pray for him. Sometimes I'm deeply saddened by the decisions that he makes and the things that he says. Sometimes I'm very thankful. But my responsibility and all of ours is to honor him, to show respect, to speak respectfully. We we have freedom of speech in the Bill of Rights, but we do not have freedom of speech in scripture. The scripture restricts our speech and we are told to honor and show respect. Very good. Okay. Kim, what is your opinion on this statement? Jesus is a feminist. Short answer, no. [laughter] a little more thoughtful of an answer. Um, Christ's care and love for women in the scripture is so beautiful and a feminist will not see it unless the Lord redeems them. I think of the woman that was caught in the act of adultery. Where was the guy that was having adultery with her? But look what Jesus did. He came after the leaders, right? And he protected her. He protected her. I think of the woman at the well. I mean that we I could go on all day. There's lots of pictures there. And what we see is in his love for women as Christ is God, he is also a God of order. And God beginning in Genesis created a an order that is complimentarian. And so it is not feminist but instead what you see there is that women were created for a purpose and that is the complimentarian picture that is given in the very first couple and marriage. we see that the woman is the helper that is suitable. And I love that word helper because it's the same word that's used for the character of God and helping us in our times of need. >> It's not a bad thing, but is he a feminist? No. Very good. Okay, we have two questions left. Uh Andrea, this one is for you. Can I lose my salvation? >> That's a very important question. There are a lot of places in the word of God that we could go to uh to address this. Uh one that just comes to my mind right away is in John 10. Uh Jesus is um he's in in Jerusalem. It's the feast of the dedication. He's walking around in the temple area and um and the Jews gather around him and they say to him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you're the Christ, tell us openly." And Jesus answered them and said, "I told you and you do not believe me. The works that I do in my father's name. These bear witness of me." He says, "But you don't believe because you're not of my sheep. My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me and I give them I give eternal life to them and they will never perish ever and no one will snatch them out of my hand. No one. So that includes Satan, that includes other people, it even includes ourselves. We if we are in the father's hand cannot snatch ourselves out of the father's hand. Now it is true that um we've this has come up a number of times right that where there is genuine salvation there will be fruit there will be a life of obedience not perfect obedience surely but there will be where there's life there's growth right there's there's something being growing and producing and bearing fruit and there's evidence of life right and so [clears throat] I think to myself you know the John 15 is, you know, fabulous for that. You know, where there's where there's fruit, there's evidence that genuine salvation exists. And where there's no fruit, there's no evidence of salvation because salvation does not exist. And I think of like in in um first John um you know, John's talking about um you know, the whole point of the letter is so you can know if you know Christ. And he says in um uh chapter 2 um lost my place. They went out from us. Where are we? >> Oh 19. Thank you. He says uh they went out from us. And so he's talking about people who once associated themselves with the church, called themselves Christians, but they've since left. They have we we might call it going apostate, right? He says, "They went out from us, but they weren't really of us. For if they were of us, they would have remained with us, but they went out so that it would be made manifest that they were not of us." Those who belong to Christ cannot be snatched out of his hand. They bear fruit. They remain. Um, theologians call that the perseverance of the saints or the preservation of the saints. genuine believers in Christ do not fall away from him. We might fall into sin for a time, but there will be repentance and we will be renewed again. And so if we're considering our profession of faith and thinking, I think I've lost my salvation, we need to ask whether there was salvation there in the first place. We cannot lose it. So if we don't think we're saved, we never were saved. But it's also possible that maybe we're in a season where we're not living in obedience. Well, we're really going to doubt our salvation if we're not living in obedience, right? Because we're not bearing fruit, right? If we're really his, we're going to repent of that and start bearing fruit. He's going to prune us, right? So that we bear fruit. And we're going to remain. We're going to continue. We're going to persevere in the faith. It might be hard. It might be rocky. We might be taken three steps forward and two steps back as we figure all of this out. But there will be evidence of life if there is spiritual life and we we cannot be snatched from the father's hand. >> Thank you. Okay, last question. This one is for Kim. What are some practical ways to come alongside a suffering sister? I should have asked you this question. Uh well, I just lost my brother in February. Uh very tragic, very unexpected. And it was really sweet to see the the body come alongside, especially as a pastor's wife, right? Because you're the one doing for others. And uh I'm not saying that in a like I'm a martyr or anything. It's just this is what we love to do. to serve and and uh people offered to take my laundry. People offered to uh just come over for dinner, cook me a meal. Uh people just sat and listened to me so tell the tears and just see the real Kim, you know. Um but there were things like just that I've done for others like you know run errands of course bring meals um that will accommodate their needs which may mean a special sacrifice on the body of Christ. Um the cards to me were precious. The cards and almost every one of them had had lost someone recently. Um, and just one of them was hand painted and the words in them were so precious. I put them away and saved them. Um, because they were so encouraging to me. But, um, one of the things that I have found when you're in a deep sorrow or a really deep trial, like I remember saying, "I'm going to go put a load of laundry in the refrigerator now." And my husband looked at me and he said, "Well, I don't know much about those machines, but I don't think [laughter] that's what you mean." And so there there is uh just a lack of clarity when mourning is taking place. And so just having the body there if it means just taking over the simplest of task and and because as pastors wives we're used to doing for others we may not ask. So, what I've learned to do is to say, "I'm coming over uh on Tuesday at 2:00, and why don't you have a list of about three or four things that I can do while I'm there?" And then they're kind of like, they're like, "Okay, she's coming, so I I'm gonna, you know, and then just be honest. If there is something that is lacking, be humble and and don't be afraid to to ask. But just be very practical. Just super super practical. You've got to eat. You've got to stay clean and keep an eye on them. Look for signs of depression. Uh look for signs of isolation. and um set a timer for an off day that's like 3 weeks down the road, 6 weeks down the road, you know, and not on a day that you would already see them on a day maybe that you don't have church activities where it may be a little more lonely or quiet in the house. Um because it just it's the most bizarre thing. Your sorrow will hit in the most unexpected times. And so it won't necessarily be at those times where they're preparing and gearing up to respond well. And so just those like I think you said the day Tuesday, right? There's not typically church on Tuesdays, you know? So that day, you know, send a message or have I I've done where I've written cards for uh to mail every every day of a week and then they just each day they go to the mail, they would get a card and for a set amount of time picking up toothbrushes for the family because someone that came to be with the family in their morning forgot their toothbrush. It can look like anything. Just be practical and be available. Can I add a few things? >> Um, I would say don't say if you need anything, call me. >> Um, I know we say that and we mean well, and I really do believe when we say that we mean well. Um, but in in in the midst of grief, that person will not remember that you said that. And like in my case, I probably had a thousand people say that to me, and I'm not exaggerating. Well, the people I'm going to call are the people who keep showing up or keep saying, "Hey, is there a task that you are uh putting off that you really need to get done this week or something that's especially hard for you emotionally?" Or, "What's the hardest part of the day for you?" And so, um, we had friends that said, "You know what?" And I I said, "I keep forgetting to water the lawn. [laughter] It's dying." Charles would be mortified. And so I was like, "Okay, well, we'll come over and mow your lawn and water it once a week." And um I have boys that could do it, but also they're grieving, too. So, um or someone u I had a friend that would just text and say, "I'm headed to the grocery store right now. Is there anything you can think of that you just need right now?" Um I had um you know Josh and Christie were with me for about a week after Charles died and they just started noticing things around the house that needed done and started taking care of them and making a list of the things that maybe they wouldn't be able to get to but needed done because they knew I wouldn't remember those things but they would need to be addressed at some point and my memory would not you know I wouldn't have the capacity to keep that in my memory. Um, I would say the the most helpful were the people that just kept persistently showing up. Sometimes it was just a text. I have a friend that will text me all the time and she texts me specifically what she's praying for me. Sometimes the specific scripture that she's praying. Um, I have other friends that check in about every six weeks or maybe every 3 months. Uh, but they just keep showing up. Um, I had one friend that um, actually I didn't even know her really. Uh, we had met a couple of times, but I didn't know her. She just asked me a couple weeks after Charles died. She said, "What's the hardest time of day for you?" And I said, "Oh, by far nighttime. Like, I don't want to climb into that bed alone." And she said, "Okay, I'm going to I'm going to text you tonight." And every day for a year, she texted me and just said, "Good night." And sometimes she would share a funny story of something that happened with the kids. they homeschool or she would invite me, hey, we're going to go visit this museum next Tuesday. Would you like to come with us um or she would um share a scripture or just something that was on her heart? And she changed it up deliberately. It wasn't this just wrote thing. It was just, you know, she put some thought into it. Um and she just kept showing up. And today I count her a dear friend because she has been by my side through through that. And so you don't have to minister in the same way that someone else did. But you can think very practically what are the specific needs if I were going through a stressful period of time. Um what would I need? I had a lot of people drop off paper goods and toilet paper so that I wouldn't run out because goodness you don't want to [laughter] run out of those things. But you really are very forgetful in your grief. And so, and >> you have a lot of people in your home. >> Yes. And there are lots of people. And so, not having to do the dishes, I don't think we ran the dishwasher for months because we just kept people were bringing us meals and we were using paper plates. But that meant one less task to do. And um that little practical help. I mean, I think I still have spoons from two years ago. [laughter] It's grand. I think I'm going to pull out a box of spoons and I think of the people who loved on us and brought us things. Um, and then I would just say don't assume someone else is taking care of that hurting person. Don't assume um that people are checking on them. Don't assume that they have the help that they need. I've had a lot of people say, "Well, I see you on Sunday morning and you're surrounded by people." And I'll say, "Yeah, but the rest of the week I'm not." And so, I love Sunday mornings because I am surrounded by my brothers and sisters in Christ. And I love coming to conferences like this because I'm surrounded by all of you. But then I go home and the house is really quiet and it feels very lonely. So it's that random Tuesday morning or you know Wednesday afternoon or Thursday evening or whatever. Uh check on your friend. Just keep doing it. Don't assume somebody else is doing it. Just keep doing it. >> Very wise words. Thank you. Um I want to say a special thank you to all three of you. You are near and dear to me personally as well as many of these other ladies. >> [applause] >> Thank you for your time, your labor. Um the Lord will um use you mightily. I I have no doubt. Um I also want to thank their travel companions for taking time away from their lives to come alongside them and take care of them. [applause] Yes. I want to say a special thank you to Metro Life Church for allowing us to have it here at this venue. [applause] And then for my precious sisters in Christ at Cornerstone and Christ the King, thank you so very much. It really it takes a lot of people to make this type of event happen and we want to do it well. We want to be diligent in our work unto the Lord. So thank you very much for that. Uh, just please remember to mark your calendars for next year, July 15th through the 17th, 2027. Um, I am going to be checking in uh next week, but I'm pretty sure if the Lord blues, we'll have it here again at this facility. So, go ahead and mark your calendars for that, and more information will be forthcoming. Uh, please [clears throat] as you leave today, look around your surroundings and take your trash and all your belongings with you. And I believe that is everything. Um, I don't I don't I can't think of anything else I'm forgetting. Uh, Kelme, will you come real quick? She's going to come and she's one of our deacons wives and my dear sister. Um, she's going to close us in prayer and then you will be dismissed. Okay, we've been sitting for a while now. So, let's get up. [laughter] That's good. >> And let's go to the Lord in prayer. Heavenly Father, King of Kings and Lord of Lords. We come before you with a heart of gratitude. You are a good God and you are the God who gives. Gives so much. We just want to thank you so much, Lord, for giving us your word. How precious it is, Lord, to be able to come here for the weekend, to hear your word being spoken unto us over and over again. We praise you for these precious ladies. Thank you for gifted them with the gift of teaching. What a blessing they are to us. Father, we know we have learned so much. And I know there's so there is so much out there in our minds as we go back to our regular routines. There's so much that is ready to fill up our little brains. How I pray that you would take your truths and you will plant it deep in us and you will shape and fashion us into your likeness. We pray for the many young people who are amongst us this um this weekend. We pray father God if they are not in you and that they would taste and see that the Lord is good and you would bring them home. We pray that you would save them young and that they would have many, many years to serve you. We pray for the older ones amongst us, Lord, who don't know you. I pray that you would help them to see how fragile that life is and there is only peace in you. Thank you again for this great time that we have together. We pray, oh God, as we um as we depart from here and each one of us going our separate ways, we pray for protection. you would help us to get to our destination safely. And also we pray, oh Lord, that as we prepare our hearts to worship you in the morning that we would remember that everything that we do, everything that we are Lord is to the praise of your glory. In Christ's name we pray. Amen.