Pushing The Boundaries Of Mental Toughness - Nedd Brockman

Ned Brockman welcome to the show how are you mate good thank you for coming last night thank you for having me it was uh it was a fun night I didn't know what to expect as I told you last night but it was a uh I feel like a lot of people felt a lot in that room when I saw you it felt like all the energy was on you like it's quite an intense I think environment that stuff but yeah it was really cool I loved to hear all the questions and the answers was great [ __ ] yeah thank you talk to me about what you've just finished doing recently this is the first time you've actually got to sit down on a podcast and talk about it since you completed everything yeah I'm bit bit traumatized to be honest so it's a bit um it's it's good I'm excited to talk about it's been as you said I'm just haven't really chosen to do it because I'm um I guess I wanted to process it a bit but yeah I ran a th000 miles around a track uh in what was hoping to be 10 and a half days but ended up a bit longer than that just due to a few um probably being a bit under ready for it but still uh completed it in 12 and a half days fastest person ever do it since I've been alive which is a pretty cool stat um I've only been alive for 25 years so if you guys did it before that but um yeah ended up 130k a day around at a 400 meter Athletics track for 12 and a half days why decide to do that particular event um a culmination of a few things I I ran across Australia two years ago um and kind of felt this like uh desire to want to keep doing these things and and push my body the you know the more discomfort you put yourself through the better of a person or you know more of a person you become um and off the back of that I knew I wanted to do something every one or two years and uh thought about running across length of the UK um because hear a lot of people have done that uh bit too hilly for me so I chose stupidly a thousand miles around the track um and yeah I didn't really think too much about it I don't really think too much about these things I'm I feel like anyone who takes these on are usually a bit older they're usually you know 4550 of done 25 30 years of running prior only started uh three and a half four years ago um so I think my naivity and stubbornness kind of go hand inand um but yeah then got to got to the start of this year and went well I'm going to do this going to lock it in and I do a lot of stuff with homelessness um and wanted to align the two and ended up yeah ended up finishing it in 12 and a half days which throughout the period throughout that time I've I don't think I've ever um felt as much pain as I did in that 12 and a half days talk to me about the training preparation yeah it was a lot of people ask that like the what's the physical side of things versus what's the mental preparation I think you know obviously as I said I didn't get the record so I didn't um probably wasn't physically prepared enough uh but I don't think I will be for another 15 20 years and that's why accumulating an awful lot of time and detention to get of course of course and that's like that's the the game but I feel like at 25 you're somewhat relatable to younger people and also older people um and it's not really running for me that's the thing it's just running is the tool I use to feel what I feel and I have almost an ability to get people to watch I guess and so I can then push what I want to push by doing that and so whether that be through helping homelessness or getting people up and moving inspired to do something it's like a a social change organization masquerading as a fitness Pursuit exactly exactly yeah cuz I don't like even before the OS run right the run across Australia I didn't really know why I was doing it I just wanted to I wanted like I wanted to feel what it would feel like to run across Australia I wanted to feel like what it would feel like to run 100K a day um and I'm not willing to just sit back and go I'll wait till the right time because I think in life there is no right time I think you just have to start these things um and so yeah off the back of that I didn't really know why or what was going to come of it and then I saw off the back of the Oz run that there was so many people just in Oz I guess that went I was so inspired to run my first marathon or to speak to someone on the street or to whatever it may have been I was like I want to give people something like tangible to be able to put that inspiration into after after I do something um and so off the back of this Thousand Mile Run I wanted to get people allowed to do their own thing as well so I started um Ned's uncomfortable challenge which was like uh giving them their own 10day thing that they can pick and choose to do something hard uh and feel what I feel that was kind of like the hope so the lead up to it was like quite intense because I've got this thing I'm trying to run this like almost organization that's trying to help people move and raise money for mobilize uh homelessness but then as well train really hard for this thing that you can't give anything else but your undivided attention and well didn't you do uh was it 50 marathons in 50 days while you were at work yeah yeah while you were you went to work and then did the marathons after as well I was still a Sparky yeah yeah so I don't know there's something you're right there's something relatable about doing it while you've got the other obligations because it's all well and good and very impressive still Ross Edgley swims around the UK [ __ ] unbelievable feet but he slept six hours on six hours off 6 hours on 6 hours off for you know the best part of a year yeah and he had a support crew and he had all the rest of it yeah and although it's unbelievably inspiring and obviously the Pinnacle when it comes to sort of human achievement for distance swimming another side of you discounts it because you go well that's so different to my life yeah that's not like if I had the support crew and if I had that thing maybe so the relatability I think gets pulled away so although it must have made the preparation more difficult the fact that you've got slack to answer and emails and calls and artwork to sign off or whatever the [ __ ] you need to do I think I think especially if you're talking about that there's a degree of relatability Cu everyone's got to pick the kids up everybody's got to walk the dog yeah there's always that's that was the biggest thing I've learned in the 50 marathons was like I had to go to work for eight and a half hours and everyone as you said everyone can relate to the fact that they got to go to work and then they get home and they go right now I just got to feed and and you know whatever it may be walk the dog but then I was like right I had to run 42k in the afternoon uh and then also feed myself also wash my clothes also you know clean my sheets whatever made been right um so yeah that kind of but that was like I'd only been running for 6 months at that point like I didn't run at school didn't like I only play rugan road but I never ran so doing that was like a it was a whole new world so preparation for the Thousand Miles yep how strategic are you with this you said that you kind of pull the rip cord and just jump into stuff but I know some of my friends that are training for marathons there's even free apps online that are like this is how you break down your mileage per week and this is how you do so it's relatively structured how structured are you and sort scientif evidencebased formalized with your process for this kind of phally it's evolved um very cowboy in the at the start of this kind of four years the OS run I would say still very Cowboy like I'll be fine I'll tough it out um and I learned a lot through that especially when I started this I was have a coach deal nutritionist um but I think there's something very valuable in just doing it and being like having to find out yourself what works what doesn't yes there is people who have done the research and they know so it's like you need to lean on them when you don't and haven't found what you can find throughout your own training uh but the physical I guess my leadup the biggest thing I probably did was strength training and a lot of it like you can't a lot of people try and run the case before the event and realize that they got injured throughout the process or they they tried to climb too quick cuz the almost in mountable achievement there is like too big we have to make sure we hit those C so we know we can do it uh where strength training I think gives you that time under tension but then running on heavy legs and running on you know saw cares whatever it may be allows you to kind of feel what it feels like to back toback a longer day after a longer day after a longer day but nothing can emulate or simulate what running 160k after 160k feels like it's like just Next Level okay and you can really feel that after day one all right so you decided to get to the start line and what's the process you need to break it down if you're going to try and do a thousand over whatever 10 days you've got mileage that you're trying to hit per day talk me through what a typical day was like once the races came around yeah so the goal I got actually got injured prior to the to the start got eight weeks out and had a bit of a shin overload because I um I guess probably overdid a bit the strength was up but the the ks I was trying to hit 200k a week roughly with three big strength training days and I think I just hit a little bit but I was so close to the event that I was like I've got all these sponsors this uncomfortable challenge the fundraising all these things were there and I knew I couldn't pull out so I was like never right time you must do what you said let's just try and work out the best way um a lot of physio a lot of praying uh not on not on my knees cuz that was s but and then I I would yeah got to the got to the essentially went had a pretty severe injury from the get-go um and the goal was to run 160 a day for 10 days ideally we knew that wasn't probably going to go to plan after about day three or four but that's what we deal with when it happens um got day one did it in 16 hours that was kind of the goal get it 10K done every hour mhm is that how you tried to break it up yeah and so each lap I would each lane I would do two laps in Lane one two laps in lane two two laps in Lane three all the way to Lane 8 come back to Lane 1 so that would be 12.8k oh because you accumulate a little bit more Distance by going out to the edge and it keeps variety which probably mentally exactly yeah cuz just doing 4,000 laps of Lane one y is like almost completely unachievable in my mind where like Lane one twice lane two twice Lane three 500 laps of each eight or whatever yeah it was like that was a master lap so two laps Lane one two laps lane two all the way to Lane eight and then back down again so that was one master lap I had to do 125 Master laps I know this sounds weird much more consumable yes I know this sounds funny did you have a favorite Lane as you were running was the one that you look forward to Lane four on the way out all the way back home like after the three4 of the way why so it was like Lane four in the way that the start wasn't good because you still had and like the the tiny little bit of distance each lane further out adds up so when you're over that and you're heading the way out it's like oh I've only got two in Lane five now which means I've only got three more Lanes which essentially if I just run for like 2 minutes I've got two laps two laps oh cool I'm done and then like at the end of each Master lap I would eat or lay down get a rub down um or just quickly turn around and go were you reversing Direction every every Master lap so I would go that way and then come back that's a really nice setup thats like a good way to mentally break it down yeah exactly but then by like by day four the master left it's like why did I choose to do this why I I don't know it was almost like this what's the movie with um oh Tom Cruz in it where he keeps getting through and then he dies he has to restart and go again oh uh [ __ ] day after tomorrow or uh tomorrow yeah yeah okay I [ __ ] love yeah he he keeps waking up in this Workshop whatever yeah so I would like finish a master lap and I'm so exhausted like after day three I I day two was 20 hours day three was 21 hours of running and then I so and to keep the record I was like right I've got to shift that to 12 hours running 2 hours resting 2 hours sleeping and in that 2 hours resting I was still getting the shower eating so I had like an hour of sleep and I'd wake up and i' be like oh that's right I've got 12 hours of running right now um and so that's what would happen I would get to the physio bed after a master lap and nothing would move like i' I'd wake up and it was the exact same theme like I just kept seeing like the my shoes there mom hadn't moved no one had like done anything and on the Oz run what was nice was like you'd see a different scene you'd see different cars you'd see different people but here it was like I'd wake up I'd see a blue track I'd see like the physio table where it was the food hasn't moved and I'm like I'm in a [ __ ] Loop here what is happening like yeah you are I was like how do I get out of this and it's like the only way out is through like the only way out is to get this thing done and the only way to get this thing done is to put one foot in front of the other but when you're like day four and you still got 1,000 kmers to go that's like terrifying so talk me through the degradation of your body and legs across this yeah I I felt quite strong up till about day three uh daylight savings changed so we went forward an hour which really [ __ ] my head up oh [ __ ] you crosslight savings yeah on day into day three so that was like oh no we've lost an hour even though we hadn't obviously it's from the beginning of the 24 hours to the end of it but you're using yeah and I'm like no no no yeah um and the idea behind the the 16 hours was I started at 4 p.m. on day one and um wanted to go throughout the night so it wasn't as hot cuz here on the track if you get a hot day it's like 5° hotter Y and so that after day one I slept throughout the day had like my my eight sleep had my um like the room was blacked out everything was great yeah and then after that I realized which I I tried to do in my training was like sleep being cooked and your heart rate being up and how do we get those things down but yeah that was that stress that built up about this whole event so like after day one I'm just like oh God I got another you know 900 miles to go and so after day one sleep just never came like I just couldn't sleep so as we discussed last night like sleep is one of if the not the most important thing for Recovery right and if you can't even get two of it a night um the wheels are going to fall off if you like it or not you can try and tough it out all you like and I was doing my best to do that but um day five was when I actually I haven't really spoken about this to anyone I except for like the immediate crew I got to end day five uh or day five 6 hours i' hit 810 km so I was over halfway pretty well on track um but I wasn't really making decisions very well and I'd started to lose that like almost Consciousness like I wasn't really there with everyone even though they were right around me and mom was like like she's like do you want to eat I couldn't even work out if I wanted to make the call to eat like I wanted someone to say You must eat you must rest you must drink you must change your shoes I just didn't have it in me and so we we got to this point where mom's like you either run or go to bed I'm going to call go to bed and I went right at 45 minutes I'm going to go to bed 45 minutes hopped in bed with my shoes on clothes on it's after like a 12-hour day I'm laying on my bed and I my heart rate was at like 110 that's me resting I'm laying there I just like feel in my throat my ears were like pulsing my eyes were like forcing out of my head and I'm like okay this could be how I how I go I reckon like genuinely thought this is it because like the sleep deprivation thing becomes gnarly but if you can nap and you can switch it off a little bit there's like little tricks you can play and you know Ultra Runners do that all the time but over that kind of period it starts to I think go the opposite way and like you start to die um and so I'm laying in bed my throat's like closing up my nose is bleeding and I go mom can you just stay out the door I'm like not sure what's going to happen here like I'm pretty concerned about like my health 20 minutes later I'm like freaking out mom mom mom she's like not there she's like left she's having crisis talks with the team cuz she's watched me go I'm going to die and go we need to get him to bed he needs to sleep and we need to like make sure this because essentially I was trying to get this record so bad I was like a wounded dog going I need to like kill or be killed right and when you're in that mode you've done what you've done already to get there you can't make that decision to say hey guys we got to quick sleepy this record's gone it's fine um so Mom comes in and goes get in this wheelchair I'm walking to the shower get in the shower you going to bed I'm like okay so thank [ __ ] for mom cuz otherwise like I don't know what would have happened I would have gone out there and just tried to death march until I couldn't and then yeah ended up getting a bit of a sleep got about two hours that night and then woke up with a bit of uh you know omph my step um and kind of like a bit of clarity that this is not about a record you're 25 it's important to go for them I think shooting and hoping and putting everything into getting it is really important but I think what you learn about yourself in continuing to finish what you set out to do is 10 times more important than a flag in the ground to say I got it did you see Ross failed his long distance swim twice before he did the one recently in um America Yukon yeah yeah yeah sorry and uh yeah with that I think he's got of all of the endurance people that I've spoken to and that I know I think he's got the best mindset around it because he's very well first he he is a freak like he's depersonalized so much of this he talks about suffering is uh resilience is suffering strategically managed I love that dude he just Smiles through the most terrifying yeah terrifying human uh but I what I like particularly about his approach is that he doesn't he doesn't tell himself a story about it it's not about him it's not about his capacity his worth as a human do make him less or more like for doing it he's just he sees himself like a science experiment he is a sports scientist at heart and um yeah it's interesting thinking about the situation that you were in where you've got the mental capacity which is the exact thing that you need to use to make good decisions is the very thing that the situation you're in is depriving you of yeah which means that your difficult decision becomes infinitely worse yes and then you can't even step in to help other people make decisions on your body you can't even tell other people that you need them to make decision you don't even have that level of self awareness yeah so I mean the sleep deprivation thing while doing these sorts of events I I think must be one of the most difficult things the reason that Ross is so good at what he does is his digestion because he can eat and then be horizontal I don't know about you if I eat I need to be upright for about half an hour I need to gravity apparently needs to help me digest [ __ ] but he can happily CH down you know best part of a lit ofri piping hot porridge that burns his throat on the way down to warm him from the inside like a [ __ ] internal edible hot water bottle and then get back to not only being horizontal but face down in Water Swimming not saying anything exactly so I wonder if I wonder if there's a a person out there who's like an elite sleeper who might be a worst Runner who might be a worst lifter who might be a worst swimmer or whatever they could win by sleeping they can just the same way Ross can digest at any point I wonder if there's something that can be done by training sleep more effectively you know what I mean yeah 100% but it's like yeah I don't know I also feel there's like a being in that mode of like CU I like I can imagine Ross's brain is quite like just constantly right but when you're in that deprived sleep State I feel like there's a lot more clarity not when you're out of it right but like in that period of like there is there's nothing else that matters other than the task at hand there's something so pure about that even though like I would wake up and go oh god I've got to I've got to go again yeah um and even when I finish the Run for the next 10 days I would I'd be in a like napping I'd finally nap and then I'd wake up from like in this Terror you got to do it again that I've got to get up and I've got to get to Lane eight and Mom's there saying it's all it's all good and and my physio it's fine mate you're not you're not out there I'm like I know what you're saying it's not Computing like I appreciate you you're telling me I'm here but I feel like I owe another 170k to the people that are watching on the live stream telling me it's you know what I mean like there was this because you're so wired to get this thing done you can't just switch that off once you're done you know what I mean you can't just go oh we're finished this is fine yeah it's like a it's a very traumatic way in other news this episode is brought to you by ag1 you are not eating enough fruit and vegetables and you know it and this is going to help I tried every Green strink I could get my hands on over the space of about 3 years and I settled on ag1 because it is the best they genuinely care about holistic health which is why I've got my mom to take it and my dad to take it and tons of my friends as well and if I found anything better I would switch but I haven't which is why I still use it best of all there is a 90day money back guaranteed so you can buy it and try it for 89 days a full three months every single day and if you don't like it for any reason they'll just give you your money back back so you can try it completely risk-free right now you can get a your free Supply vitamin D3 and K2 plus five free ag1 travel packs and that 90-day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to drink a1.com slod wisdom that's drink a1.com slod wisdom so get back to where are we now day five day sixish yep what's happening um we're we're still going essentially I said we need to I need to work on an 18h hour 6 hour rest so in that 6 hours try and get four or three or two is this because of the pace that if you were to push the pace much more quickly it would be too fatiguing yeah it was more just the the fact that this the lack of sleep thing was was there was no way I was finishing if I wasn't sleeping I I just you can't tough that out um what was the original time on time off plan it was well the first few days 168 and in that eight there'd be six or S hours I'm usually a pretty good sleeper but for some reason it just was the stress of the thing and and yeah and you can't you can't fight it otherwise you're just sitting there going and then I would get out earlier and go again and that's just like not a not a thing to do so yeah ended up 18 hours um and I was probably that's when the average dropped down a little bit on those days where I was like we've just got to get this thing done but um I was pretty proud of the fact that I got through those next you know five days still averaging over 120 130k and then I just what I found and what I usually in these kind of events is like I have some sort of fun like I have some sort of reprieve with family or with friends or with you know at dinner we might be laughing about what happened or what I said or what someone did this time around I didn't have one freaking second of it and for me as someone who really like uh laughs about the crap that's going on and like really Smiles about the crappy things I just didn't even have that at all and so I like that was really hard for me and so majority of the time like even when we we raised a million dollars on Day N and I looked up and I was like it was the first time I went oh my God like you're actually doing something important and and valuable to society and people are clearly inspired so they're they're donating and it was the first time I actually like took a breath and going oh this is what you're doing is insane you hadn't found any joy in the suffering up until that point none of it like not one bit and then the even the night before we finished we raised like 700,000 that night we were I was 2.6 million before I'd finished and then I I just like took a breath in there was I don't know how many people in this Stadium just there to watch and I was like you've got to kind of appreciate this because these moments don't happen all the time and you know I might get it five or six more times in my life or I die like I want to enjoy these moments and then even after that I'd seen all this all this money raise and I still was like I've got another 100K to go and I had to like just crit the teeth that final day was a uh 26 hours non-stop 160k done and I crossed the line and I punched that [ __ ] banner I was just so angry it was so um disheartening because I with the O run like I just had so much joy throughout it as as much as I had the suffering I also had so much joy um but I think off the back of this I'm actually going to find out so much more about myself and like things I've leared throughout going through something so hard and so lack of Joy um yeah I'm like excited again I'm yet to work what that is out yet but I'm sure eventually I'll I'll have that lesson what were you angry about I think I lost like I just lost who I was in it cuz I'm I am that happy jovial person and I'm I'm usually bringing everyone up and when when I'm up everyone's up in especially in the support team and I think I found that like I was putting a lot more pressure on the crew than I needed to because of how much pain I was in so that I was angry that like it wasn't as fun for everyone else involved where like I feel like the ozun was much more like that um yeah and then just I I think I was also extremely proud to have finished it but I think that was masked a bit more by the that it was just so [ __ ] hard yeah it was just so violently hard talk to me about physical pains challenges such going through it yeah I had uh so I had tenos ofius in both shins which is just like fluid around the tendon sheath uh anterior tibialis muscle um so essentially had that before right yeah I had it in the OS run probably like 20 days in um I had a day three on my right leg and had to have a a dict to span on that one for the rest of the run a what addictus band So for people with drop foot when they um like walk into the bus or they can't pull their Shin up essentially their foot up um it's just a device goes around the ankle and then a rubber band goes through your laces and so when you lift your hip up your foot comes up oh right and then you yeah and so essentially we found that that worked on the because it takes the pressure off exactly when you press off footwise your CF explodes and then it's down and that rubber band essentially just pulls your foot up yep pulls your foot up and I felt that like that worked on the Oz run it's a it's something if it does go to crap I can utilize this as a as a plan to keep moving um we packed another one because we thought maybe my shin will go on the left side and it did on day day eight or nine um so I'm running with like two big dictus bands rubber bands people like what's going on with these legs um I just have weak Shins apparently and again that's another thing that just over time you get stronger shins you do these things um and then my right knee which I'm still dealing with a little bit um essentially I'd lost hip mobility and so my gate was off all of you know 2 cm so when I'd land my knee would land in every step so about 400k to go I had that pain so I had to walk 200 M run 200 M cuz at the end of the running of 200 m i the pain was just so immense that I had like walk to ease it so for the next 400k it was just a walk run walk run um and yeah it was quite funny when people came to run with me I'm like I've just got to explain this scenario like e isna flew in from Oakland the second last night he's like ready to run with me fully came I'm like just so you know mate we're walking and running every 200 me he's like yep all good mate no worries um but yeah that that I've had a like injection in that now just to kind of ease it um but it's all nothing structural which is good Bloods were all fine um apart from like a bit of a uh gluten response just because of the high amount of carb you're eating and the inflammation in the body uh those markers were a bit high but iron was good everything was good I was uh pretty cortisol fine liver liver bit high from pain meds but what do you think that's really interesting cuz I would have expected hormonally something to have been going on if you're lying in a bed and your resting heart rate's at 110 and you're only getting half an hour or an hour's sleep and you've got to do all of this work I think a lot of the time because the only thing that we have access to are our thoughts right so we know what the uh in a world is for us I can't detect what my hormone and estrogen and progesterone levels are uh but if your Bloods have come back and they're normal what relatively normal what that show shows is the power of the framing that you've got inside of you because it's not something systemic that's going on or at least not something that could be measured free radicals other like blah blah blah in the blood I'm sure that there will be areas that weren't fully tested but it just really shows what power you have mentally to be able to make a relatively okay performing physiology totally [ __ ] yeah yeah yeah it's it's quite it's quite an interesting thing isn't it I um yeah I was I was bit perplexed we only we took them seven days later so I reckon in that period there probably would have been a bit but like I kind of guess you don't want to take them right then there cuz you know it's going to be another source of stress for you as well by the way get in let's let's pin you blah blah of course may I would been intrigued to take them throughout and seeing what well they can do I think they can do little ear for lactate and um yeah I mean it is always interesting but again I I just like it for the uh just cuz I said I was going to do it I don't there's no like I'm not trying to prove anything to anyone it's like one of those ones where it's like this is something I want to attack life is you don't know what's coming tomorrow so let's set this thing up let's do it let's get it done what does the ultra running Community think of you that's a good question um I want to dance no I'm not going to dance around this because it's like something that's again being 25 is something I never thought I would have uh dealt with as much um there's purists in everything and I know for a fact that people in boxing and swimming and all those things that take on these events without the I guess resume of mhh what is supposedly supposed to do uh in order to attack a thousand M saying that you're the Jake Paul of urance racing there you go perfect [ __ ] God that on me he's got a mullet too yeah yep um yeah I I I was shocked when I first copped a bit of flack for a few things but I'm always like even your talk last night talking about um like anyone who's spreading negativity it is funny when you've never coped it that you think they are they so oh my God they must be right because you know I'm this this lack of this person I'm I'm not capable but that person he's he's got it he knows yeah that that person's assessment of me is is bang on like all your close people around you tell you love you no they can't be right no you're fine mate what you did no not a chance who know you so well but then the the nuffy that said oh how dare you pause your watch for this amount of time because it doesn't reflect exactly what it is oh yeah no he's he knows me in and out it's interesting I think we're just so naturally drawn to to make sure I think innately that's us to want people to love us and want people to approve us and welcome us with open arms but so you find the people that don't and work out a way to try and do the thing that will make them love you yeah I I when I first went through that I was like I'm I'm going oh [ __ ] how do I'm you just lose so much of yourself by doing that like you become the most broad have no backbone stand for nothing if you're trying to be General and please everyone MH so it's it's good that you have people that don't like you but if you're yourself and you have those people that violently love you and can't support you enough uh like as long as you can say it for that and and exactly as you said these people are so insecure about themselves and so worried about what people think of them too that they prefer to spit hate and anger in saying that in the in the running world I would say majority of people accept me and um appreciate that what I'm doing is you know probably bit a bit dumb and not the the road to take but it's also one that I would not change for the world I would I would do the OS run again 10 times over at 22 years old to continue to like I I just want people to I've I've said it for like the last probably three years any keyote I've done any speaking to anyone I want people to live like live just make the most of it stop waiting stop getting on your phone stop just go and do the thing you've always wanted to do give so give without wanting anything in return I think there's a lot of that where it's like people want something from an exchange or want something from doing something I feel like if you can just give and give your time or energy or smile or money to someone or to whatever it is um that is a very rewarding existence and then to get uncomfortable I love the fact that you can intentionally put yourself in really hard scenarios and you'll find out things about yourself that you'll never have learned unless you did those things if you did hard things um and so yeah live give get uncomfortable that's all I want that's all my message is and if I can get people to hear that through what I do regardless of that being running swimming kaying rock climbing whatever I decide to do next and I'm sure I'll keep ruffling feathers with the purest of the sport who can't stand that the sponsors paying me what they're paying me or can't stand that I'm getting to speak at these events where they're like but it should be this guy cuz he's can run this really fast marathon time it's like I appreciate that and those people are incredible those I I I could never match it with the elites of the Elites in the marathon world or the ultramarathon world it might take me years to get there but I hope that I have a message that people can go yeah that's cool I like that I appreciate that for what he is and yeah I I don't want to get that mixed up with me being I've never gone I'm the I'm just attacking this thing cuz it's there and I feel like I'm capable of doing it and off the run I did I it definitely shows that I am capable I just have to do the years and years and years but by the time I'm able to do it I'll probably want to do something else so yeah do you know will G I do I do he's a he's a good friend yeah so will I've known will for years and uh you know he did his thing America Across America he did a an interesting UK one before that was the counties different counties different The Three Peaks or five PS no no so this was maybe even before that um where he ran I think it's a marathon in each County in the UK maybe every day it was like the 6055 or something 4030 4830 you're in 48 Marathon 30 days yeah yeah I do and um before that yeah and then he did the thing where he ran across America and not too dissimilar he's probably maybe like 30 only few years older than you something like that uh for the people that don't know him [ __ ] good-looking kid uh hot handsome big dick uh anyway I haven't seen the de yeah it's uh you're not British um and uh he doesn't I was talking to Rich Ro about this and he said what did he refer to it as he said that the endurance races are a bit of a granola crowd they're sort of a bit crusty and uh you've got will who's trendy and he wears flares yeah exactly you know like skincare routine and um he ends up doing really well on a number of like pretty [ __ ] extreme events but it Ruffles some feathers it people just want to hate it and it's like it's just such a odd way to look at the world and it's sad and I think if you can look it from that pity point of view it's like it's actually sad that you can't go you know what this bike's been running he's ex-rugby player he's hot as [ __ ] he's getting deals from a freaking you know whatever it may be and they can't just go you know what good on you you ran across America in 55 days that [ __ ] incredible like give the man's flowers like let's not hate on people for what's the response been to Russ Cook I think um relatively positive I I and I'm sure he's cop it and as do you think his grany beard has helped him with that I'm being serious he's so likable he's he's just such a you can't not like the guy there's something wrong with you if you can't not like him you have to like him he's too just bubbly and funny and like you don't know what's going to come out and it's I remember this is the guy again for the people that didn't know that he ran the length of Africa first person ever I think to to the the full length so from b top of Tunisia yeah wherever the [ __ ] it is yeah and uh I remember I was watching him on his Instagram stories halfway through it and I think he managed to get some sort of food poisoning yeah and he was running down the road with [ __ ] pouring out of his shorts throwing up and videoing himself just saying that they're trying to stop me like they they're trying they're trying they're trying to stop me but I'm just too [ __ ] Fierce I'm just still here chewing pav yeah chewing Tac eating asphal and uh I I don't know it's not I really wish that that was the way that I'm built in those situations and maybe if I dedicated myself to it there's something that I could activate but [ __ ] me I love seeing someone that is like seeing somebody that is dealing with suffering with a smile and uh I don't know it's Noble and like cool it is and that's why they how many people love Russ like they just want to just give me more Russ like when he was posting you know day 300 oh run he's got his goggles on to the Sahara like that is that's just you know what that is that's authenticity that's him being him and I think so many people want to be themselves but don't know how Y and you've got this guy who's just so unapologetically himself and that is that's attractive and and draws you in and I feel like if we can all do that that's where you don't have these people that are sad and miserable about their lives but that's just that's the way the world is you're never going to change them they they've got to change themselves and I wonder if uh I wonder if that's part of the reason that you were maybe a bit angry when you finished the race as well that you have this opportunity to like not only be you for your own experience but also like this is what I want to put out like the whole one of the big reasons of doing this is to set the example like this is how you can deal with suffering with a smile this is how you can go through some and Beal and and levity and and maybe that was a as much of a missed opportunity as not completing the race would have been not just doing the thing but how you do the thing yeah I guess there a part of that but I still feel it it uh grabbed a a lot of people and went oh Jesus we've got a like this how is he still going how is you know we've been drawn on live Tik Tok at 3:00 a.m. going he's still moving he's still moving like I know I know it got it definitely got through the message I wanted but I think yeah potentially Crossing and when yeah maybe maybe if I got the record it still wouldn't have been as important as the what happened anyway if I did I still don't believe I would be going I got this like I don't think that would be the message I hope it wouldn't be that if because as you said at the start it's like Ross isn't better or worse than anyone because he's done something he's a human being that's living his life the way he wants to live it and that's what's quite applied himself in a very specific way yeah and it's it's just cool and people in other news this episode is brought to you by function I partnered with function because I wanted a smarter and more comprehensive way to understand what's happening inside of my body function has been an absolute GameChanger they run lab tests twice a year that monitor everything from your heart health and your hormone levels to nutrient deficiency and stuff like thyroid function they even screen for 50 types of cancer at stage one which is five times more data than you get on a typical annual physical testosterone levels play a massive role in your energy and performance and being able to see them charted over the course of a year with actionable insights to actually improve them gives you a clear path to making your life better lab testing like this would usually cost thousands but with function it is only $500 function has a 300,000 person waiting list but every monay they open a few spots for modern wisdom listeners and you can get your expert blood work analysis and bypass that 300,000 person wait list by heading to the link in the description below or going to function health.com wisdom that's function health.com slod wisdom you were you were saying before this is something I've been thinking about an awful lot especially you know I'm here in Australia I've been on tour uh the first night I've done three shows very in very close succession and each one was the small show of this tour and also the biggest show I'd ever done each time so it was like thousand people then 1,700 people then two and a bit thousand people to each one had escalated up and [Music] um I especially at the first show there was a lot of like gripping from me to make sure that I didn't mess up and it went great all of the shows went really perfect you know I couldn't have asked for them to have gone any better how much preper you done for those like what sorry no not at all what like how long was your your preparation for a show of that like cuz you're so refined and so uh clear with what you were for two hours yeah yeah but incredible except for the um Arthur Shackleton oh yeah me Arthur Shackleton but it's the problem is Ernest Shackleton is the guy that did uh uh went across Antarctica but Alfred Lancing is the guy that wrote the book Jance and I managed to split the difference between Shackleton and [ __ ] anyway so sorry no no at all uh quite a lot of prep um you know I ran half of the show last year maybe 20 times okay I did work in progress shows this year in Austin so I did the in front of 40 people like comedian would do working different bits and What story do I want to keep in and which story I want to get rid of and stuff exactly yeah what did people like what didn't they which jokes landed well which didn't and refined it and refined it and refined it and then went through this run but I realized especially after the first one that I was gripping very tightly to the experience um very not fearful but very on edge you know I just wanted to make sure it was very precise of laser focused on the thing but it's very difficult I think to kind of be taking in what's happening whilst focusing on the thing that you're doing right it's very difficult to hold those two positions at once in your mind like with maybe your most recent race that you're so laser focused and obsessed on what is this particular thing you know the type of race that you're doing is so unvaried there's no novelty um it's very constricted and constrained right it's like running in a l you might as well [ __ ] run it on a treadmill yeah yeah and um I realized Chris bumpstead talked to me about it's not just about winning it's about how you win and the story that you tell yourself and the experience that you go through so not just winning and being a gracious Victor or losing and being a gracious loser or whatever it's like and how did you feel when you did this because when you look back yeah sure you can say I TI the box I did the tour I completed the race I did the whatever but really what was the reason for doing the thing it was for the experience it was for the way that you felt the energy the vibe right the intensity yeah all of that yes so um one of my friends before I did the show in Melbourne was like how you feeling for tonight I'm a bit nervous I've got some uh propanalol if you want some beater blockers and uh I thought I could use those but I really want to like I've got myself here like the entire reward is to feel the terror of of hearing a few thousand people outside murmuring murmuring murmuring murmuring and then the music comes on and you have to walk out so yeah I just think it's really interesting hearing you talk about this experience as one where you maybe did this incredible achievement and raised all of this money and stuff but internally the experience maybe that you had left something to be desired from your presence from the way that you Tu it in from all the rest of it and I think that you know that's another Frontier uh to try and Conquer too yeah and to talk about that and to say heyy look it's not necessarily just about winning or losing or completing it or not completing it it's also about how you do it outwardly and inwardly as well I think as well I took on this I love that whole just talked about the I reckon I took on this probably because I felt I almost had to not not for anything but like I've told myself I'm doing this every two years and then I did it or i' set up that I was going to do it and so when I'm in it I'm like why am I doing this even though I know like I I'm there's intention behind it to do good and get people to move and for myself to experience what I experienced but like in those moment moments of being in it you being able to have that almost um you talked about last night being just like be and to sit in it and be like how on Earth after you know all I've been through or whatever I've done how I got to this point where I'm running around a track where it's live streamed where people are fundraising where people like I find that a really cool thing in itself is like you've gotten yourself to a point in this life where you've chosen this road this this this and this you're here and there was like a few moments there where Tom who met last night he's next to me and I'm like why are we like what is happening like what what on Earth have I done in my life to get me to a point where I'm going I'm [ __ ] doing this thing regardless of what happens um and that in itself by finishing that and having those questions like why are we here why are we doing this still finishing that and still having those you know being angry like again as you said it's like maybe something in that next time is like well the next thing I do whatever it may be it's like you've got an ability to then make the people around you enjoy it and you try and break it down so that each five hours you have a moment of reflection and go well you know what this is actually MH but you never ever get to that by not experiencing this really this is how bad it could have gone yeah and this is how good I want it to be of course and like you know if I did that if I broke the record and I did it in 10 days and it was a seamless event I did 16 hours of running I got 160 done each 16 hours got eight 7 hours sleep beautiful meal woke up every day and went again it just wouldn't be what it is now right like it just wouldn't be the um I guess message of like how to not give in and I think that's what I hope I can continue to show is that like it's not about necessarily you know being I'm better or worse it's about going commit and see the damn thing through because life on the other side of that I think is with a perspective of something really cool well it's not just within events you'll have ups and downs I'm sure even on the Australia run even on the the marathon after work yeah competition uh even within those you've got good days bad days but I think if you broaden the time horiz and you know we talked about this last night as well that okay well maybe across events there going to be some that are better and some that are worse and some of the worse days within events will make the better days feel better and some of the worse events across events will make the better events feel better but what can I take from this because [ __ ] knows what the next reason is that you need to Galvanize yourself and steal yourself against some sort of a challenge maybe it's something in your personal life maybe it's something that happens professionally maybe it's some [ __ ] press story that comes out maybe it's the next physical event that you do or one down the line and you need to draw on that and without that without the bad without it going bad or Worse maybe than would have been ideal the next one actually you can't survive yeah and it's that odd thing where ironic tragedy that life has to be lived forward but only makes sense in Reverse yeah of course and you don't know the lessons from exactly what you're doing until you've done the next precisely it's why you know you'll have heard that story about the uh Farmer's son who gets a horse finds a horse runs away it comes back it breaks his leg the soldiers arrive and then they say how how unfortunate the horses run away how fortunate it to come back with a heard of them how unfortunate it's broken your son's leg how fortunate it means he doesn't get conscripted into the army yeah it's like well what's the way you Perce exactly and over a broad enough time Horizon I think people generally get what they deserve like yeah you don't need Karma or spiritual energy to deliver Justice to people they just need to keep repeating their patterns and habits over and over until reality just gives them what they deserve yeah and uh I think that's kind of that's why ultimately I I have so much faith that good people end up out on top completely agree what um what's what's your goal with not necessarily the podcast but like more broadly when you started I know it's definitely evolved in what you I'm assuming from when you started to now and what you hope with it all but like what is the Hope where does it not end but where does it go for you with the because I like I'm in this not uh I wouldn't say it's definitely not lonely chapter but it's like one of those you've kind of got a a open door where you go what where do we take this because I have an ability to potentially inspire a heap of people or is it is it to double down on something else is it business is it whatever like how do you do you just go with it or do you you have an intention behind where you want to go or what's the a great question you know very few uh bits of sympathy are given to people who have lots of options y right because most people have fewer options than they want and when somebody says well there's lots of different directions that I could go down oh what what also made them through a lot of work of course of course but still I know you're saying said it last night problems of abundance are always going to be given less sympathy than ones of scarcity of course right um so in some ways you think W what what a luxurious position to be in how great that you've got that but then on the flip side you have all of this optionality which means that you the pressure is on you to go down is it more virtuous for me to spend all of my time fundraising for homeless people or is homelessness even the best charity that I should be doing this for I could be raising it for a more worthy cause maybe I should be swimming instead of running or maybe I should be doing whatever so in my experience I've always been bad at long-term planning and I kind of came out of the productivity bro world at least initially so in that world you know you have a you write your Epitaph and you've got what's on your headstone and what's written in your obituary then you break that down into you know 10e like chunks periods into threeyear sets into oneyear goals into 90day Sprints into daily actions and you you know you have this perfectly coordinated this is how I'm going to get there I I always struggled with that naturally and then laid on top any sufficiently quickly growing situation means that optionality breaks out in ways that you couldn't have ever imagined so for you five years ago you didn't even know that things that you could be doing were things that you could say yes to that even existed no no no right yeah so in my experience it's very difficult to have rigid long-term plans which is why principles and rules are much easier so for me I just try and follow my curiosity I want to keep on learning about stuff I think is important want to follow my instinct I like I like how much you are clearly inquisitive of so many people that's it's a really cool trait thank you yeah it's honestly man I I everybody is idiosyncratic and varied and they're into distance running and [ __ ] 80s Jazz I hate distance running by the way War Warhammer 40K yeah and blah blah blah you know they're into like they've got all of these different things that they've got going on and uh I kind of get the sense that people like uh in interested curious people like life is a intellectual Buffet right and sometimes they want to hear Mark Norman [ __ ] talking doing gay jokes sometimes they want to hear about this really intense War Story sometimes they want to hear about the psychology female serial killers whatever blah blah blah and uh yeah the job that I have is just to keep satisfying my own osity and if I keep doing that I think Downstream from that everything will go well um yeah that's the only guiding principle at the moment is like just trying to do stuff that I think's interesting yeah that that that's interesting to me and uh I think next year I'm going to start doing some stuff on bullying interventions cool um so I happen to have a couple of friends Tracy Vine cor who's the head of the Canadian anti-bullying Association um and Tony vul as well who's another evidence-based bullying intervention guy I really want to see I I don't know of anybody that's talking about bullying very much like as in like kids or as in yes so um specifically for kids because most bullying occurs in school the reason that most bullying occurs in school is that for bullying to happen you need social networks to aify for a while and in the workplace especially with remote work now people come and go from jobs so much they don't spend that much time in the office around the same people but in class you see the same people every single day 5 years or for 11 years right if you follow them through like one big school or whatever so that's how you get locked into these hierarchies and the pecking orders occur so it's easy to do the intervention there but really interesting thing that no one is talking about and there are interventions for is um helping ex bullied adults to overcome that bullying we heard about it last night in some of the q&as that some of the people have got chips on their shoulder about people that didn't believe in them when they were kids or people that were mean to them whatever in school and trying to liberate adults from that because it's very shameful to you know to be in your 20s your 30s your 40s and still realize that you're driven by this thing that this devil on your shoulder this kid that probably maybe doesn't even remember doing it and for you it's still something that [ __ ] crushes you so were you bullied yeah badly in school okay yeah for long like whole schooling uh I think when you're in primary school when you're super young kids are just they're just blobs do you know what I mean so they're not really doing bullying but then when we got into Secondary School uh it was never extreme physical violence but it was that this sort of very mundane social exclusion that in some ways I think sticks with you for longer because it tells you a story about your position in the world socially about how you get the love of other people about how safe you should feel around other people as well can you trust other people do you need to offer them something in order for them to accept you or want you or or or be friends with you uh do you have a um backup like do you have a reinforcements ever do you feel like you're like do you feel like some I know kids should never be bullied but for you potentially it may have aided in your Pursuit now I'm assuming oh absolutely yeah so is there an argument not saying bu this is a great but like hard love and hard being uh like on to that I don't know there's something in it because I know so many I'm myself included there was definitely bullying at school where I've you know you feel like ostracized or not a part of something or um laughed at because of a certain thing it's like that it 100% sticks with you but I also feel that like I was never I was never badly but it was also enough where you're like well maybe this will help me in in some I do I don't disagree and this is one of the ruthless things about anything difficult that you go through again what I spoke about last night right like the all of your greatest growth has germinated from your lowest points and that but you can't tell someone that when they're in it likey you're going to really appreciate this in in 10 years time this is going to be the thing that's going to propel you to actually to do whatever to you know to be the strongest person that stands up at your father's funeral you're like that's not but it sucks yeah exactly because in the moment people don't feel good about it so yeah this is one of the most ruthless things I think about difficult life experiences which is that lots of the things that you're most ashamed of the dark sides of your personality your insecurities your fears are just the other edge of the strength that you love most in yourself yeah so for me Solitude hard work my ability to keep going and and not need support of other people all of that sort of resilience and agency and intentionality is definitely born out of the fact that I needed to I didn't have anybody else to rely on yeah yeah so in some weird way and I think this is to be honest how most of the chips or maybe even all of the chips from my shoulder at least the conscious ones I'm sure the subconscious ones are still [ __ ] running ramp yeah yeah but the uh unconscious chips on my shoulder I realized well if the things I'm proud of are the light side of the dark stuff and the dark stuff wouldn't have come about had I not gone through the difficult stuff that means I need to be grateful that I went through those things which maybe means in a weird roundabout way I actually need to be grateful for the people that did it to me or for the situations that I was in because if I take so much pride and value in those but the the only other element that I'd add in here I always had a problem with people who said um uh it was meant to be like this sort of retrospective storytelling of and the reason I don't like it is let's say that you're in a a car accident and and you break a leg and in the hospital bed despite the fact that you're on a ton of morphine and you're supposed to be miserable and life sucks and loads of bad stuff's going on you meet your future partner and they're the nurse that's caring for you or something like that and you go see it was meant to be I was meant to break my leg I'm like okay that's one story another story is you were in a [ __ ] [ __ ] situation and you alchemized it into something amazing like I think when we retrospectively say it was meant to be yeah it removes the agency that we had from that situation which is exactly where we should take all of the lessons and all of the what's the lesson that you take from it was meant to be just doing things keep doing things until it keeps me me to be [ __ ] off no it's like I can find this out by doing itct you through something hard yeah and you made something good out of it congratulations that's this is I I've got whole body Goose this is my whole in desire behind this uncomfortable challenge thing I said at the start is like I don't like we don't need to be bullied to feel something hard to then go oh I'll overcome that we can bully ourselves yeah we can bul I mean that in in the purest way we should be throwing ourselves in these harder things in order to you know learn those lessons and if you have throw do that it's going to be you're GNA learn these things about yourself without you know being told you haircut [ __ ] oh yeah no I like that hair yeah that's a bit wild um you might have heard me say that I took that testosterone level from 495 to 1006 last year and one of the supplements I used throughout that was tonat Ali I first heard Dr Andrew hman talk about the really impressive effects that t of research was showing which sounds great Until you realize that most supplements don't actually contain what they're advertising momentus makes the only NSF certified tonat Ali on the planet which means it's tested so rigorously that even Olympic athletes can use it and that is why I partnered with them because they make the most carefully tested highest quality supplements on Earth so if you're not performing in the gym or the bedroom the way that you would like or if you just want to improve your testost run naturally tonat Ali is a fantastic research back place to start best of all there is a 30-day money back guarantee so you can buy it completely risk-free and if you do not like it for any reason they will give you your money back plus they ship internationally right now you can get a 20% discount of all their products by going to the link in the description below or heading to liv.com /od wisdom using the code modern wisdom a checkout that's l i v m oent us.com wisdom and modern wisdom a checkout yeah I I really want to just Linger on that how you're doing the thing not just doing the thing um that you have the opportunity to get the promotion get the new car have the marriage do the whatever and in retrospect sure you will be able to maybe have the photos and all the rest of it but the only person that could have experienced whatever it is that you're going through the only person that could have been on that track that was going to do all of those laps and all of those miles was you the only person that was going to run across Australia or was going to swim around the UK or was going to run across America or the [ __ ] length of Africa you go anybody can watch the videos even you can watch the videos of you but only you gets to experience what it's like to do that and it's this odd blend between do you want to be the absolute best in the world at a thing which I do think can cause you to need it if you want to be the best all sacrifices are on the table everything [ __ ] Health life enjoyment of the event relationships yeah exactly family bank accounts reputation everything right it's one thing but if you are doing something for not being the fastest in the world if it's not a sports competition or it's not a zero sum game where there's only one winner and you want to just be that one winner I feel like there's a little bit of Tolerance just a bit of give at the top and it's like where can I sneak in something there can I sacrifice five 0.5% performance to gain 50% presence yeah and that's what I think is [ __ ] interesting about all of this stuff that you guys are doing whether it's Russ whether it's Ross whether it's yourself whether it's will very well put I was almost I was like when you said come on the Pod I was excited initially and then I went oh I don't know if I'm like I had this it wasn't that I wasn't uh ready or worthy it was that I was like am I ready to talk about what I feel or think because of the only I know what I felt in that thing so to sit and talk with you who you are would be one of the best people to try and get it out like get it out of me but that is like again you can only asso with something you've ever you've done and so then I'm like oh do I do I really want to do this because I want to be able to get to a point where I can explain it to people in the best way possible so that to me is like it's a lot of writing that's a lot of um speaking to people it's a lot of like hearing how same with a a keynote or a speaking GE is like well that didn't work well so I'm going to say it this way and so I was a bit like nervous about the fact that I might come off as like it's like it might go straight over people's heads but I'm like it's a really cool digital Diary of my where were you at that time yeah and so in 5 years time I might laugh about some of the things I've said because I'm what the [ __ ] was that I'm sure your first bu podcast you're going what on Earth was I saying but I think that's what's really freaking cool about this is like if I do look back at it and I do look and go well that's what I was thinking at the time and that's what I felt and that's what accurate yeah it was exactly right there's nothing I'm not hiding anything here I'm not trying to say I'm something else it's like it is just what I am and I think that's a really cool isn't it strange that authenticity is something you need to practice like you need to work at being authentic there's so many yeah that yes in this yes 100% like how can you yeah why is it easier to not be you than it is to be you to file in line and just go oh well I'll do what they do exactly yeah but you know so much of what we do our social lives especially people that you don't have to have long conversations like when you I don't know I would love to know what the longest average conversation a person who doesn't need to record it and put it on the internet has apart from outside of work maybe like stolen 20 minutes here and there over dinner with the the kids or the partner like little bits here and there just the opportunity to ask yourself question I I had this like um prescription my equivalent of Ned's uncomfortable challenge was record a fake podcast with a friend once a week so you put a phone on record it put it on the recorder mod pop it in the middle because a lot of people want to become better communicators they want to really understand themselves don't want if you're a fan of a podcast you probably like having interesting conversations anyway but you don't need to go and [ __ ] publish one not everyone's got the time or the the inclination to go do it I was like if you record it then you're forced to be rigorous in the way that you think be precise with these things but authenticity oddly enough is something that has to be discovered because you've got to dig away all of the [ __ ] layers of social expectation and [ __ ] and decorum and politeness and bullying and past [ __ ] traas and pattern and tiredness and caffeine and all of that you got to like get rid of all of that to be like dig dig dig dig dig and then finally you hit something you hit something solid you're like oh [ __ ] that feels like me that feels really true yeah and it's weird cuz it's like how is it easier to not be truthful or authentic or honest than it is to do the other thing well because of all of the social expectations it's not as jarring it's not as like oh why is he why is he posting about this exactly yeah yeah I think that's the other thing with the running thing is like I don't running is just the tool I use it's not like and so when I'm doing this thing and being myself I think that's why it's so jarring for some people cuz they're like this is not how you meant to be running around a track for a Thousand Mile you meant to be doing it like this this is how they've always done it and it's like well it's not really me and to find I think exactly right you have to remove everything and find out like I don't want to be a Sparky this is [ __ ] me like I want to do this I want to find this and and that's why I think it will change over time it's like this will come I will be really excited and that's what I will start pushing like you mentioned the PTSD mhm talk me through we've got up to the end of the race now yep finishing at least punching the uh [ __ ] thing was a little bit angry yep recovery next few days psychologically physically all the rest of the stuff what was that like I uh I drove home from the track so I'd been that whole 26 hours because my old man is farmer like through and through he's like we live 6 hours from him the the family farm and he has no idea about directions around the city and I'm like wheeling in my wheelchair up to my up to my Ute hop in he starts going to the driver SE like no no no I ho in I just knew he'd asked me for freaking directions the hall way home so I was like I'm driving turned ACDC on and dve um six hours no no no no back to into Sydney from where I where I did the track run was like 30 minute drive into the east of Sydney where where you are um and yeah but when I got home I was like I was just in shock like I sat for about 2 hours after the run in the room that we got ready for each day I'm just like staring at so you've not been awake like 28 hours 28 hours yeah from 4:00 a.m. it was now like yeah 8:00 a.m. the next morning I'm sitting there just like got this massive blister on my car from all the tape because my leg was essentially strapped up to be like a a um like a crutch cuz I was just like Stumpy like couldn't move it and then uh my knee was cooked everything I'm just sitting there like first breath I took over the whole 12 and a half days of like sigh of relief the sigh of like it wasn't even it was no post run in orphin there was no like it was just pure and utter relief that it was over and that I could take a moment to go oh my God what just happened guys um so then went home laid on the couch and I just was in this like tweaking out stage for like 12 hours I reckon just like in and out in and out and there'd be food in front of me and I'd go to sleep and i' be like L eight um and then I I did not sleep well for the next seven days I would I would nap a lot um and I'm very like I have to move every day like I have to get my body up and do an hour of something otherwise I'm like you know it's not good yet if I see in the afternoon I haven't done something I'm like this is this is nasty I don't know why it's just it's just me it's not like a like I I can you know control it but I I feel much better for doing it so I'm like now 3 four days of not doing any exercise and I've just done so much to get in to turn off is is near impossible um so in bed yeah i' just be up all night staring at the ceiling and then I'd finally get a sleep on the couch and that's when I'd wake up just like it's a really really hard thing to explain because you're like you know it's all okay and everyone right around you saying it is fine it is fine yet you're like I don't trust you like I'm a I'm literally trying to do this thing and it's not done i' had on the osun where I had like road trains cuz they were constantly on the like trucks big trucks big trailers um they were constantly on the highway and I'd I reckon I'd run past a 100 of them each day over the 100K and we get into one of the roadh houses where I'd sleep for the night and the whole night I just have these road trains coming at me and I'd be like spitting at the wall because I was spitting so much because there so much dust in my mouth throughout the whole run so I'd be like traumatized like Road train i' jump and then I'd like spit at the wall and I'm like I'm in a I'm in a room I can't spit at walls or like I'd wake up in like a panic like and so I kind of knew what to expect this time around I knew that this would happen and I kind of like weirdly enjoyed it like when do you get to that point where you actually get to feel those things because of what you've done to yourself and then that's what I really like in this period now is that I know I'm going to crash for certain I know there'll be a point where I'm I'm a bit lost I've you know devoted my life to this pursuit of this thing with no real plans after it and I kind of give myself that time now because you can't have UPS without Downs you can't have Downs without UPS I love feeling those Downs like I love feeling that because I know when I do process what just happened I'll be so much prouder and so much more grateful about the $5 million we raised you know like it's those things I don't think you can feel the beauty of those without this kind of really downtime and I'm I'm okay I know how to deal with those but it is it is one of those things that I think people kind of push away is like oh I can't feel terrible I need to like like I think lean into it the way you lean into feeling good and finishing you should lean into like why is my head like this why am I feeling these things what's this emotion I I love those like more than anything in other news this episode is brought to you by Shopify look you're not going into business to learn about how to code or build a website or do backend inventory management Shopify takes all of that off your hands and allows you to focus on the job that you came here to do which is designing and selling a cool product businesses that sell more sell on Shopify and that is why they're the global force behind gym shock and skims and aloe and neonic when it comes to converting browsers into buyers they are Best in Class their checkout is 36% better on average compared to other leading Commerce platforms and with shop pay you can also boost conversions by up to 50% best of all their award-winning support is there to help you every step of the way so upgrade your business today and get the exact same checkout that we use at newtonic on Shopify sign up for a $1 per month trial period at the link in the description below or shopify.com mowis or lowercase that's shopify.com modern wisdom to upgrade your selling today I started realizing this to do with meditation a little while ago that um do you do every day uh I try to it's difficult when I'm on tour uh but yeah I try to and um I just can't I mean I can if I if I get if I intentionally wanted to do it i' would be able to do it but I just I just haven't given myself the I think it seems like running might be a a pretty good proxy for that for you Rel um but what I realized was people have a variety of modalities maybe it's [ __ ] weightlifting maybe it's running maybe it's meditation maybe it's breath work maybe it's whatever A lot of the time when you feel an emotion that arises inside of you especially one that you don't like you have some sort of coping mechanism that makes it go away now you can alchemize it into something beautiful right you know running a thousand miles around a track or do you know doing whatever Ross did you know that I feel something and I'm going to lean in and I'm going to grip my teeth and I'm going to do this really [ __ ] phenomenal great way to turn something like pretty bad and useless into something that's really magnificent but the same thing with meditation emotion arises inside of you release and allow it okay you still haven't actually got to the root of whe that [ __ ] emotion's coming from and this is only something I learned since doing therapy over the last year that it's like you can keep doing that and you can have really beautiful coping mechanisms the one that makes you run the one that makes you lift the weights the one that makes you swim around the UK the one that helps you to be more mindful or a peaceful person but it still doesn't get to the actual core at no point are you going you're finding a way to get it up and out of you but at no point you actually looking inside and going yeah but why does that keep coming up like why is that thing there and um not everything actually needs assessment in that way there's some stuff that just I think there's a lot way too much getting assessed yes there's stuff that just is you do this very intense thing you dedicate yourself to something for a long time out the other side of it what the [ __ ] did you expect of course you've been single you've been like monom maniacally focused on this one thing for months and months and months and then you finally do it there's a [ __ ] existential crisis coming like it's going to happen always going to happen to every person that does that sort of a thing but on the other side the stuff that's oddly like more mundane I think the patterns the assumptions you have about yourself and about the world your relationship your place in it it's like hey if that thing keeps coming up even if you've got a great beautiful coping strategy like you can either continue to keep on coping and coping and coping and coping for the rest of your life or you get rid but here's the [ __ ] dangerous thing that a lot of people probably think which is well if I get rid of the emotion what about the useful coping what if my desire to go to the gym or to run the races or to be mindful or to be peaceful what if goes away what if that goes away because what if the only reason I do the good things is because the bad thing that's motivating it and that's sort of honestly like a fear of Peace it's very much a fear of novelty it's like well I've kind of got some kind of stasis here and even if it's like a little bit out of balance I managed to get it back into balance and if I take something away even if it makes life better I'm now out of balance again I've got it all compensate so do you feel like you've got like a just you need to do things or do you feel like you're at peace with whatever happens this way we go Life's good no I have very much a need for control in my life I'm very sort of structured very organized very routinized yeah yeah uh and getting more used to being sort of free flowing in that way might be useful but then on the flip side people are constructed differently and we find solutions that work for us and this is one of the reasons why I'm so hesitant about anybody that gives one size fits all answers to success or or mindfulness or what you should do in life and stuff because what most people have done that are successful is they have found a very specific way that works for their mental pathology and their [ __ ] construction who's exactly what their environments were what exactly so Matthew sad sports reporter uh in the tennis world really interesting jovic and AD Daran federa all were world champions at the same time but all of them have massively different training Styles one's super aggressive one's super fun one's super robotic but all of them traded places so you go if I want to be a tennis chion which one do I do and you go well it depends who you [ __ ] are every one of them has been a [ __ ] tennis champion yeah and all of them have different approaches that's what I love about that I don't know who it was on your pod when you talk about the you know you might be 98% right Rich re yeah so and then that the 2% right is something that you should still listen to like people being certain on something that is potentially not certain is a is an oddd way share the truth between us yeah I love that so much it was um a really good way to be what did you make of that Jill Stark article that was written about you uh I haven't really spoken about too many people um I think it has evoked uh it's allowed people to start conversation about um this topic and I'm the least uh I would like to say toxic human being I'm not at all and the fact that you know my mother was my immediate support person shows that like I can't really like she is I would love Jill to speak to my mother like that would be amazing um I think it was quite opportunistic I think it was like a bit of a click baity kind of article but uh yeah I think it's allowed people to question and there is the the Jim bro uh I must be tough I must not deal with emotions I must be stoic and no one you know do not talk about emotions there's that side of things that's that needs to probably be addressed a bit more but then there's the like we also don't need to be too aware of our emotions all the time I think you need to be aware but use them to your benefit and and be um yeah I I mean I don't I just don't want I want get two yeah but I just think um I got nothing against Jill I'm sure she's amazing I didn't read too much of the article I just saw I just knew it was a tainted a really it was just not needed yeah because it didn't do that for the people that didn't uh read it men's mental toughness is just toxic masculinity rebranded cult hero Ned brockman's grueling 1600 kilm charity run as A's talking but now everybody sees it in a positive light basically that uh Doing Hard physical things denies you of tapping into your emotions in a way it's a coping mechanism etc etc look I think that the modern world has a multiplicity of problems one of them is victimhood one of them is people um needing more resilience they need goggin screaming in their face another group of people are the ones who do push too hard yeah and that do need someone to say hey man maybe you should slow down like read some poetry outside or go for a walk or do whatever and uh I think horses for courses with regards to this if you are someone that is doing something very very good and very very hard and very very inspiring [ __ ] Hells like yeah it's very very different and very difficult there's a really interesting study out of the US and Taiwan that showed men who suppress positive emotions have worse mental health outcomes than ones who suppress negative emotions so you know when we're talking about all of the dangers of men not opening up and all the rest of it I spend a [ __ ] ton of time in the live show that I've done here talking about opening up and opening up on stage but very few people are saying what about helping yourself to achieve some glory and some pride and to conquer something and get Mastery and feel really [ __ ] good and positive what about like oh guys listen I'm sure that there's an article out there that says this guys listening to heavy metal music in the car whilst on caffeine is like rightwing coded or what you know there all of this like silly like Fitness is rightwing and um you go yeah but what if it makes them feel happy and [ __ ] full for the day what if that's their favorite part of the day yeah and they Rock up to their family and they're inspired and ready to go like yeah I think it's I just there was a a friend of mine shared an article that talked about the Gill Stark article and me and then just framed it a really like well what a what is different to Ned Brockman running a th000 miles and screaming cuz he's in pain or Y being happy because he finished another day to to Jessica Watson who sailed around the world and being excited it like what's the difference we we men and women we're pursuing something hard and we're showing ourselves I'm not I'm not saying be tough be a man I'm saying be tough do do an uncomfortable challenge go and sleep on the street speak to someone on the street this is not gender toxic masculinity related at all this is do hard things because you will grow and to to paint it with that brush is just so out of context what's the sleeping on the street thing oh we like just as part of the uncomfortable challenge people signed up and said well I'm going to go on Street sleep on the street and see what it feels like for 10 days wow that's one of the yeah yeah yeah and and speaking to people on the street for 10 days or um no like all those things but that was yeah someone did why is uh homelessness such a big thing for me yes um the fact that we're all human beings and I feel like no one ever wants to be homeless no one's chosen to be homeless there whatever for whatever reason they've ended up there a lot of homelessness is a lot out of their control um I've been fortunate enough to have the backing like my family there and if something goes wrong I can always rely on them a lot of people don't have anyone to rely on and then they go down a path of um you know it just for me I feel for these people because they didn't have the same access to things that I had throughout my upbringing and even the education or yeah you know all those things that I just feel we all should have the ability to know we have a roof over our head a shower at night and a good good bit of Tua to eat every day so that for me I just like I want to bring awareness to it I don't know how to fix it I don't know how to solve so homelessness but what I do know is if we can make enough noise about it and get people saying each other regardless of status wealth all those things seeing each other as human beings I think that's why I chose homelessness because I think by being in the front of the public eye and having that voice you can get everyone involved and go oh is is something we can we can help is is it a big problem in Australia uh it's nowhere near as a state when I went over there I was like blown away it was in LA and yeah it's I I was I was crying all the time I was like this is [ __ ] up like this is sad but uh there's 126,000 in Australia every sleeping rough yeah so that that doesn't mean on the street but that means car U couch surfing um yeah I mean I'm just I'm compassionate for that because I don't like I would hate to see someone I know personally in that scenario and I as I said we're all just human beings we all have we all should have the same access to things and I think um we're also we have access to so much so why can't we help those people there was a Prince William documentary homelessness do you see this I haven't seen it I've seen it Prince William was criticized for a big new documentary saying he will show the UK how to prevent homelessness the main critic said that he should leave it to the experts and non-government movement needers aren't needed very strange yeah and I think like with mobilize the the charity I'm working with it's really exciting we're seeing like the noise created from this that it's now going oh government's got to get involved because it's almost too loud to not take take on so they're getting behind it now because of what we've done and the funding and it's going to become this hopefully it's like we've started something that gos people off the street and gets people um into safe housing into kids into school things like that where you know you're seeing a mother with a child who's living out of a car or like that stuff is it's interesting man bottom up social change campaigns for stuff that everybody broadly already agrees with it's like well why did we need this much motivation to get this thing moving in any case like no one wants more homelessness no you know like the homeless people don't want it and the housed people don't want it yeah like no one wants more yeah exactly but I don't know it kind of makes me think well maybe that was a it's evidently a a worthwhile effort if it takes still a lot of work of course but relatively like a minimal amount of work in order to cause this big sort of snowball moving downhill you know what I mean yeah it's very cool yeah it is cool what else would you be interested in looking at is homelessness just the entirety of your um I it's not not necessarily like this is it right it's like I would say the through what I've done now my passion is definitely getting people moving and um live give and get uncomfortable I think that's the big message but um right now the homelessness thing I want to I want to end it I want to get people like I want to see the change happen in real time so that's why I want I don't I don't want to be um an ultra Runner that goes I'm going to raise for this one this time because it's FL of the month like I'm I genuinely care about homelessness um and the thing with these guys too is they work with everyone it's not them trying to fix it it's them going we want to work with everyone who's already so it's like whether it's orange sky like people who clean clothes or haircuts or all these things are already they sit at the top and yeah and they go here's we've got the funding here you go let's help Let's Help let's do this that's awesome yeah it's really really cool so it's not about them being the ones who've done it it's them helping and facilitating everyone else who's helping as well wow um and the funding because of the there's no red tape it's not caught up in government stuff it's this is funding from the 55,000 people who donated and the big cpies who got behind it it's like here we go go nuts and hopefully that through the uncomfortable challenge every year people just like movember right that's the goal I want it to be I want everyone doing it in in October I want everyone doing an uncomfortable challenge because it's like that time of the year where we go oh yeah that's why we do this hard thing and we raise money for people who need it it's like this is going to be an October thing annually call it noctober needs uncomfortable challenge October oh very nice yeah yeah I want it I want it like that's my goal and that's again that might be the next thing I go into is like let's build this thing out so it becomes this ingrained in the nation psyche like and I love shooting for the stars I love like taking on a challenge it might be impossible but in the pursuit of it I think is a pretty cool whatever happens it can't it can't be bad the result dude I love it I appreciate the [ __ ] out of you and uh I'm really excited to see what you do next appreciate it manate I've I've really really enjoyed today and I appreciate you thanks for last night and yeah you're a good man my pleasure where should people go keep up today with the charities stuff your stuff everything else yeah just Ned Brockman Ned's uncomfortable Challenge on Instagram um I mean social media is a necessary evil for these things I uh if I could I do mean this if I could not be on social media um and still raise the money Inspire and you know there's a commercial aspect of things so you have to um do what you have to do but if I could do that without social media no one would [ __ ] know who I was but it's a necessary evil and it's the game we all play the ultimate price that you have to pay exactly being on inst well worth it appreciate you um appreciate it mate good man thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode with Ned you will love the full length conversation with the one and only David Goggins right there come on press it