Public Art Commission Sep 3, 2026

Good evening everyone. My name is Angela Mills and I work for the town manager. We are beginning the meeting of the public art commission for the town of Ammerst and we're waiting to get to quum, but at this time I'd like to recognize the chair, Tom Warger, and let Tom run the meeting from here on out. >> Okay. Thank you very much, Angelo. So, I've heard from uh Matthew and uh and David within the last uh 15 minutes via email. So, um I'm pretty sure they're on their way. Uh Lynn is not able to make the meeting uh this evening. She's away on vacation. Hello, Matt. >> Hey. Sorry, I was having some internet issues. >> Hey, Matt. >> Howdy. How's everybody doing? >> Okay, not bad. Okay, so David, I believe, will be joining us. Um, we are at quorum now. So, I'll declare the meeting open. Uh, we have just a a short agenda, long meeting maybe, but short agenda today. I'd like first to um approve the minutes of the June 30th meeting. Uh I've I've sent you via email the chair's report. I was hoping that we wouldn't need to discuss it during the meeting, but if there are any urgent questions, we can do that. And then the bulk of the meeting is to be spent deliberating and deciding on artists and designs for the uh electrify Ammerst. So I'm going to share my screen Okay. So, as I just said, that was Is my screen visible? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that was the agenda. Here are the minutes. And get back to the top. Slightly different format this time. I hope this is easy to read. So, we were all here last time except Lori. call to order. We approved the May minutes. Um there's a town hall gallery update and I've sent you via email as part of the chair's report for this meeting an update to the town uh gallery. Uh good news is we're pretty much booked out through May. Okay, here we had some discussion and actions regarding percent for advisory committee and again I had an update on that as we're in the middle of interviews to fill the remaining open positions on the advisory committee. I'll tell you in passing that uh you would have been amused. Uh Lori, you especially to have seen that at the interviews yesterday, one of the candidates uh explained quite urgently and persuasively to Paul Bachelman that we would need a project manager for this uh project. Uh Paul to his credit listened to it very carefully and then winked at me and said, "Tom, does that sound convincing to you?" [laughter] >> I'm happy to hear that. >> I was curious about that, too, because I noticed it wasn't in the chair updates, but we can talk about that after >> Yeah. >> we approve the minutes. >> Okay. So this I'm this item here five was uh us finalizing the call for um artists for the electrical boxes and we did I'll note we did have a followup brief meeting for the single purpose of voting uh formally to change the fee to $650. $50. Um, that reminds me I need to do minutes for that mini meeting too, which I'll do. Um, then we had discussion on the Boltwood poetry boxes. Some next steps proposed here. Um, I had reported that the uh public artwork proposal and approval document was still pending and then it came through just a few days later and I've sent you that and included a copy in the meeting packet here. Um, and we had an brief update on website improvements, a list of some action items we intended to do, and we adjourned. Are there any modifications uh or additions to the minutes? >> Looks good to me. I make a motion that we approve as written. Okay. And can I get a second? >> I'll second. >> Okay. Thank you, Megan. Um, all in favor of approving the minutes, please raise your your hand. Okay, we have a majority there. Hello, David. Okay, we got that thrilling piece of work done. Okay. Um, I'd like to now turn to the to looking at the to our main business here dealing with the images. I've been thinking day and night for two weeks how to organize this and I'm no farther ahead than two weeks ago. I think one thing I would say is let's keep in mind that our objective is to choose three. We do not need to do art uh uh art appreciation studies of all 35. Um, but I also don't want to uh jam or restrict discussion of any of the images that people would like to um uh like to speak about or advocate for. Let me ask you whether this sounds like a reasonable way to start. What if we each uh sort of run down our a list of maybe our top five or so and then we'll sort of open it. I'd be interested almost like a I don't want to call it a straw poll, but a straw poll where we explore whether there's any early convergence on on some uh on some images. Again, I want to leave want to leave it uh open to you so you all we all have the chance to express our preferences and to change our minds and eventually uh come out with three well-considered choices. Does that sound okay? Or or does somebody have a a more sensible way to proceed? >> Hey Tom, I was kind of wondering, we have the spreadsheet that you sent. I know that not everyone got a chance to weigh in, but it maybe makes sense to to start where >> most people have already given an affirmative where there's like a cluster of three plus. >> Okay. >> And then work backward from there and then possibly leave leave open the floor for um someone with like a really strong conviction where there's like a two or a one vote. >> Okay. Um, I don't know if that's going to get us there any faster, but I just thought it might surface the ones that we feel stronger about sooner. >> Okay. Um, I'm going to take that suggestion if unless anybody has a different uh a different u direction they'd like to suggest. >> Yeah. And I um apologies. I I wasn't I think because I missed the last meeting, I didn't >> participate in the spreadsheet. So, thank you to all who did. >> Mhm. Well, uh it's it's never too late here, Lori. >> Okay. Uh no problem. We This This just sort of bubbled up recently. Uh you're missing the last meeting. Didn't handicap you in any way there, >> okay? Um so if we if we look here we've got um of the of the four people who whose uh opinions are registered here. We've got got some interest in Aguilar up up there at the top. We've got three down here for Libraser. We've got three also for Ponuchi. Three down here for Zirine. So those are some some initial uh groupings. Okay. Um, >> sorry, I also missed out these >> Yeah, >> the sheet here it was sent. I don't remember getting it, but >> So, me Megan or or Lori, do do either of you have at your fingertips um some some images that um that stood out for you that you would put in this um initial ranking? Yeah, definitely. Um, >> yeah, just call them out. >> Agular. I liked that one also. >> Um, Alice or Alice. Alice. Mhm. >> I was into that. Um, but you guys you guys don't have to wait for me for sure. >> Um, it looks like I I'm pretty much on the same page with everybody uh else who filled out the Mhm. >> Yeah. And I'm just looking through them again. >> Um But while we're thinking and looking, I I'll say that um there were there were one or two that looked like they were they were AI generated. And without getting into that argument, um um for me um I am looking for original and uh uh Ammerst related kinds of contents. also a little bit leery when somebody has cartoon figures that more or less um suggest figures that we know to be copyrighted and where that boundary is again is a tricky thing. >> I think there was a yes on Bonila and Manila and I'm kind of interested in that one. Uh, vanilla. >> Yeah, >> I had a yes on that one initially, too, but I limited myself per Tom's direction because I gave a lot of wise. >> Um, >> and Lori, the reason I kind of chose that one to withdraw my yes was kind of the succinctness of the statement. I I felt like I was trying to balance the criteria of like something that's unique to the electrical boxes we have now that >> um >> conceptually interesting and then also supported with a statement that I was like, "Oh, yeah. I I get it and feel >> confident about it." >> Um but I really liked that piece. >> Yeah. Lori, did you say Miller was one of the others? >> Um I didn't, but let me >> I'm sorry. which I I I marked uh Bonia, but I didn't catch I didn't remember the other names you mentioned. >> I didn't >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> Say much. I mean, I >> Yeah, Miller was not one. Um although I mean I it is there are ones that I you know might like less but sort of meet the kind of things that we're looking for. >> So that's also kind of in my mind as I look at them. You know personally I may not be as drawn to them but they speak to Ammerst or something connected to Ammerst. >> Okay. Okay. Good. Well, I don't want to continue to put put you uh and and Megan on the spot. So, um as a next pass, should we should we dwell for a moment on each of the ones that has, you know, three or four or five? We start up here with Aguilar. Can people say what they liked about about this this one? >> It's such an iconic image for for the valley. Um >> so I I think that will you know is is part of its appeal. Mhm. She by the way did paint a box I think two years ago. Uh very very nicely done. So she has track record of uh doing these well. >> Mhm. I mean, in addition to the subject matter, I, you know, in thinking about my favorites and wanting to have kind of a a range of different styles, that was one thing I was thinking about of >> the more kind of painterly ones, I thought that this one stood out and that >> it works in terms of, you know, the detail, but also especially that big panel. I can see like just really bold colors um also kind of attracting the eye um from a distance. >> Mhm. Okay. >> I felt pretty much the same. I think as far as style and concept, I think people are going to love it. Um, I love the idea of all new artists, but I also understand the value of someone who's done it before and we feel really good about the execution. Um, but just thought I would mention that detail. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Sure. >> Yeah. from from my standpoint, uh I I agree with I I think David said this. There's it it does double duty as having a good finished artistic quality to it and also I think works well in a kind of mural or big outdoor kind of presentation too. There were a number of of others in the list here where I thought they were beautifully artistic, but wasn't quite so convinced that they would work um in the context that we're looking at. I wish that I should invite them to come and paint walls in my house. Actually, [laughter] >> I love that's like a little bit moody, too. like has an edge to it >> even though it's it's really beautiful and really well done. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's not pure sugar. >> Not to put words in your mouth. Sorry. [laughter] >> Was that a pun, Tom? >> Uh, no, not at all. Not at all. [sighs] >> Okay. Um, so I think we're I think we're feeling pretty pretty well united on that one. >> Hey Tom, I don't know if it's easier for you. I created a duplicate of the sheet down below that says short list and I organized the top ones in order of how many votes. Um, it it would be like a separate tab at the bottom of your >> Oh, tab. Yeah. >> List. Yeah, got it. Okay. All right. Oh, that's that's very helpful. Okay. Um, thanks for doing that. I um I can barely chew gum and uh conduct a meeting at the same time, let alone do anything with Zoom while chewing gum or conducting a meeting. >> That's quite all right. And I was doing this as people might have still looked. So, if you're seeing something missing, just Yeah, speak up. >> Okay. All right. Let's maybe jump down to LRAS and let me pull up that the pictures there. [clears throat] Okay. Comments. Um, in the same vein that we've been doing comments people have about about this one. I love I just love that it's thinking about the three-dimensionality and and matching the the structure of the box with this toy and object and I think would be it's really playful and I think can be enjoyed from a lot of different angles. I think like thinking about it as an object. I like this one and I can't remember the other name, the one that starts with the letter P with the um kind of draped um weaving over it. I just um >> I like them for similar reasons to the extent that they're like playing with the box and the materiality of and structure of the box. But >> was this the other one you were thinking? >> Yeah. Um, I I didn't follow up, but Lynn Lynn Thompson said that this this artist Barbara Ponucci [snorts] has pictures on her website where she's done quite a few boxes with this kind of draping >> uh very active color scheme. >> I really love this one because it just seems really different um for for the town of Ammerst. Mhm. >> I mean, I feel like >> when you go to a lot of cities, there's a lot of I don't know, it's like more graphic street art. >> And I think this one is just Yeah, it's really playful and different for us. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> I would just add um onto your note, Tom, I went to Ron's website just now and he also has quite a few electrical boxes on his portfolio. >> And I wasn't a yes on this one. I think it was another one that I kind of eliminated as I was giving yeses to too many. Um but I really I like this concept as well. >> Yeah. Um I I liked it right from the start. But I [clears throat] liked it even more when I was thinking about, well, let's kind of balance the styles that we select here. I would see this one, just personally, as ideal for that box across from CVS because it's it's right on the sidewalk and and more kids are going to see it, little kids, preschool age kids and such. So, I think this one's going to have an if we put it there, if we select it and if we put it there, it's going to have a a special additional audience that who may not look at things that are more distant or whatever. Okay. What's a Um, so Matt, looking back at your at your list, what's where are we at another cluster? Um, so I changed myself back to a yes on lumbers. So that puts those Agular and Lur. Well, Agular's at five. >> At four, and then we're into threes, which is Alice, Ponucci, and Seir Lane. Now, let's let's go to Alice. >> There we go. >> I like this one a lot. I can really see. I'm not sure like how they want to have it go across the whole box, but if they were just to even blow this up, like those small little detailed pieces >> enlarged, I think would just like look really cool. >> Mhm. >> Um Yeah. I don't know. I'm like into this. >> Yeah. when the in the in the statement um they're saying they envisioned it sort of continuing like this wrapping the different sides of the box if I'm if I'm understanding correctly. >> Yeah. I Tom, something you said about um the robot is the reason I was interested in this one. It's so wholly different than anything else we have. Um the colors are really vibrant. Um it's jumped out at me for that reason. Mhm. Anybody else like to comment on this one? >> I'll just echo what others have said. I again I love I it doesn't look like any of the other proposals. I love kind of the the action painting and the splatter effect >> and it's like very eye-catching because of the colors um and that technique. But again, just thinking about who's going to be curious and interested about in this I I could see like again the kids really being drawn to it. Um and it's a little kind of got a little edge to it too. But um >> Mhm. >> Yeah. I think um if it comes down to it, I think the things that I loved about the uh the robot, I also I know that they're very different in terms of how they >> how they look, but I think I like them for the same sense of like >> play. >> This this one was in my original list of 10 and I I still do like it and could be convinced to see it be a finalist. So, >> I could see it being a finalist. I like it, but I like if it came down to >> between this and the robot one, I would go with the other one. I feel more confident that >> the finalized version >> would be something that >> really works. >> Mhm. Okay. This is on a It's not on a background necessarily. So, I'm curious how this would be painted on the box. If it would just be directly on the box or if there's a flat, you know, this color background and then painted on that. Lori, one one of the Lori, two of the boxes are so badly covered with stickers and um paint graffiti that um they're these are the ones on uh North Pleasant Street across from CVS and on the Commons. So, they're they're going to need a a a base background paint. Anyway, the box across from the Jones Library uh by the parking lot in front of the parking lot is uh a fresh fresh looking metal box. I don't think it's been uh defaced, but uh it's it's it's just sort of a raw steel color. >> I mean, I'm assuming the artist would paint the background. I just >> Yeah, >> there's just a little bit of missing information here. Mhm. Okay. Okay. >> But I'm I'm you know I I like it. >> Okay. So Matt, take us to the next. I was on mute. Ponucci is next in the group of three, which I think is the quilt style. >> Yeah. There we are. Comments on this one. >> I'm totally into this one. I love a pattern though. Like all about a all about a pattern. Was [clears throat] this the one you said there was more on the website? >> Uh, yeah. I recalled in an email from Lynn when she sent in her selections that uh that the artist has a website where there are more of these. >> I want to take a look at that. P. What is it? P N U C. Uh, >> PN and N C's. Bonucci. Uhhuh. I'm um I think I'm less of a fan of this one, but I could be convinced. It was certainly, I think, be the um I don't want to say loudest, but the the most colorbrite and um arresting maybe of of the of all the boxes in town. Having said that, I'm not not a great fan of it compared to the others, and I don't think I'd have a wall in my house painted this way. So, I'm going to I'm just I think like in terms of those big bold graphics and the color, we'll get to it later, but if we have to choose either or again, I love the I can't I don't know how to pronounce it, but the Z uh >> Zerline >> Zerine, which is big, bold, will grab the eye. Um, and does I Yeah, in my mind, those two >> are going to are in the same boat. I feel like there's a really strong graphic design >> element to this. I love that. I know we're not supposed to be talking about it, but again, thinking about that representation of different styles and how we would group them. >> Yeah. I guess I'm just I'm enamored of the little uh Trump loyal uh pardon my French, but like with the folds, I think that that was the part that appealed to me about the Ponucci. >> I hadn't seen that. I hadn't seen that. And I know that like knitting objects is a big fad in street art. And I I have a soft spot in my heart for that fad, but this kind of nodding to it with the paint. >> Um, but yeah, I I don't feel super like strongly for this one either. One thing I was thinking about with the fold concept is does this require like a couple of mostly flat faces to make that like illusion work correctly? Like because I know I don't know if Tom you have the inventory of what boxes we're even discussing, but some of them are a little bit more multiaceted. >> Yeah. Um, let me uh I was doing this just before we went on the air. Let me jump out to Come on. I hate it the way this interface gets in the way. Okay, I'm going to go to Google uh maps and look at street level. It's actually a really good point, Matt. And also, when the shadows in that area hit that piece, I wonder what that'll do to it also. >> Yeah. I the reason kind of made me think about it was the theater lane piece is intentionally segmented by like surface and I was looking at the other he he has a lot of them on his portfolio as well and it's like clear that that's like an intention um and I wonder if forcing an illusion onto a fractured surface is maybe not going to translate as cleanly unless it's the perfect box. I don't know. Okay. So, this this is the box uh [clears throat] uh on AMD Street. That's the one I was saying was, you know, sort of raw metal. So, you you know, all of these boxes are a little bit narrower. What did I do? A little bit narrower than we told the the the artists. Uh, I I'm sure they can adapt to it, but it it could it could have a bearing on uh on our choices as to Matt's point. All right, there's a here's one flat surface. Then boom, that that surface [sighs] that's tough going to be tough to work with. But you can see from the dimensions that at best the surface off to the left in this view, the narrow side uh is going to be, you know, less than 2 ft deep. And then at best on the back you have a uh the same as same as the as the front. Then if we go down here two. Think I'm not quite the right place. Wrong side of the street. All right. So here's this box has got a different problem actually and that is that it's right up against the vegetation uh on one of its sides. The back side here is right up against this bush. So this is essentially just um the the front side which faces the walkway here and then you've got about two foot side there and then that other big surface is buried in the bush. So, that's only going to be three. Um, and also, incidentally, it's right up against another ugly box, which is a transformer, and that is also covered with um bumper stickers and things here. And we can't do anything with that. the electric company won't let the town do anything with those um transformer boxes even though they're they can be quite ugly. All right, so that's a second. Um, and then the the third box. Got to go down here to Spring Street Lot and turn around. And there's that. There's the the third box. It's a wonderful location, but It's one again a smalish box. The one side, this is sort of nominally the back side of it. Got a lot of area we can't paint. And the front side, I don't think I have a well not going to get a street view picture of it. But the other side is again plastered with uh with stuff that's going to have to be removed and then painted over. Okay. So, do we have any further comments on the on the ponucci on the quilt here? Okay, Matt, you want to take us down to the next whatever the next one is? >> Yeah, it's all the way at the bottom for zero line. >> Okay. Yeah, there we go. This one I noted too. I didn't realize it. I couldn't figure out why I recognized his name. Um, he painted a box previously. The one I don't know street names. >> Is it the one on Main Street next to like center dance and stuff? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. Okay. I knew it looked familiar. >> Um, is that the one with the with the dog? >> Oh, yeah. That might be my favorite of them of the ones exist existing in town. >> Yeah, I really like that one, too. And I like this design for the same reason. It's really vibrant. It's >> Yeah. >> kind of an interesting shape figure. So, >> I just thought I'd mention it that I I realized that was another repeat artist. I'll say that in past years we've really not come to any position on repeat artists other than we allow it but we've never discussed whether we uh weigh them more or less. Um same thing for whether a person lives in Ammerst or close by or not. we've not raised that as a topic to discuss. Um so I would I I I mentioned those two things. Um I think just to encourage us to focus on our um appreciation and evaluation of the art as on all the other criteria. Other other thoughts or comments? Does anybody hate this one? >> No, I like this one a lot. Um, graphically it's it's really cool. >> Mhm. >> Lori, any thoughts on this one? >> Um, I I like it too. I think graphically it's really strong and um it's fun. I So I think it's definitely in the running. >> Mhm. Okay, let's let's jump back and look at um at the short list. Is this a short list? >> Yep, >> you're on it. Okay, >> I moved all the twos and ones in order as well in case we wanted to open >> a discussion for anyone who felt really strongly about a particular >> Yeah, I think that's our next step. Have we have we neglected a design that somebody anybody really likes and would like to say some some things about. I think the only one I would mention at this point is the Welden one, which was the houses. Um, I love the colors. I liked the kind of graphic nature of it, and I thought it'd be really interesting on, you know, the multi-urface of the box, but >> I also want to respect the process of only two of us having selected it. >> Mhm. Okay. Well, I al I also do like that one. So, we can add three. [laughter] We can have three there. I like that one. And then I have a few that I would have just put one on where I would be the only one. So, >> yeah. So, if you feel if you feel strongly about any of those, >> no, I'm good to be going with the with ones where we already have people. But I I also do like that one. >> Okay. I like the houses as well. >> Are you saying you like it enough for me to put a yes in your column? >> Heck yeah. [sighs] >> Mhm. [clears throat] And I would put a yes in the column for me on Oh, you already have it on vanilla. Okay. Right. Does it make sense to kind of go ahead and lock in Agular as the one with the most? >> Yeah, I I think so. >> Okay. Right. So, we'll do that if you let's let's say we've got one and we're now we're looking for for two more. >> So, the next Lassaur and Weldon >> are the fours. Well, then >> um but I would add and Lori, I'm not trying to parse your words here. You had also said you like the zero line one. Uh but we didn't put a yes in your column. So I don't know if that one also gets a >> um you could put a yes on the uh labasor in my column. Okay. Um, let me go back to down to Zerine. Um, I like it. I I don't know if I >> Yeah, I I do like it. >> I'm not going to tell you how to put your put your wise in. I think [laughter] that >> I do like it. Um, I think it would look great. I'm kind of thinking about when I It's Do I like it more? Do I like it enough to put a check there or is there somewhere else that I would >> go? What are our other ones to choose from? It was definitely liberasaur. I think that one is that how many does that have? Because that to me is something we've decided. Yes. >> That's a five now, too. So, I think it's promoted to to green. Okay. >> Okay. And then what are the ones after that to choose between because we're on our last one then, right? >> Yeah. Welden, Alice, Ponucci, and Zerine are the the top rated by the group. >> Okay. So, >> back to we'll go back to again. I'm just going to to refresh our eyeballs here. >> Yeah. >> I'm going to put these in alphabetical order because it makes me feel good. >> Zorine. And what was the And >> so here's Alice. Weldon and Zirine were the other two. >> Uh Ponucci and Ponucci and Weldon. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we had Alice is the we just saw M Penucci. Yeah. Let's put the press there. Okay. This is Ponucci. And then we have a sphere line. >> Yeah, >> down here. >> We could I don't know if I'm not I'm not great at math, but this might be helpful is if So, we have four. What if we cleared votes on all of them and you're allowed to pick two? That one would jump out then, right? >> Mhm. And we can leave Lynn's vote as is because she only had one in there. >> So, we're picking two of these >> of the of the four that have three votes. >> Okay. >> So, I can actually just create another duplicate sheet >> or you could just clear them and those rows All right, I'll do that for the sake of our little brains here. Okay. And now you get two votes for those four or Oh, well, you're going to be surprised at what I do [laughter] after what I've said because in some ways I like I I'm not sure yet, but I'm I'm leaning towards Alice as one of my votes. I think I realized that this could also just end up in another interesting tie. Okay, I'm going to vote for Zerine and Alice. That's in the spirit of uh Matt's uh um effort to help break the tie. I can I can still be I'm I haven't locked the door in my own mind, but those are where I've come down at this stage. >> Um I Me too. Same with you, Zerine and and Alice. So, everyone redid it and I think we knit it out identically. Is that what happened? >> It looks that way. [laughter] [snorts] >> Hey, no, no good deed goes unpas. >> You know that. Well, no. >> So, where are we now? Did we Is Weldon out? I think so cuz there's Well, the zerine has four now. >> Oh, can you put me for zerine? >> Yes, but that would give you three votes in [clears throat] >> take me off. Well, then >> okay. Just want to make sure that we're all being held accountable to our actions here. [snorts] Now remember this this record the recording of this meeting is gonna last forever. [laughter] >> Yep. >> Does anyone ever listen to these? We'll see. >> No. No, I don't. >> Wait, but did Lynn Lynn didn't vote for all of these? Did she? >> Um, if she did, that would be amusing. Um, Pernucci, Zerline, and Weldon, but not Alice. Yeah. Okay, that's correct. So, four, I mean, I think that means Perucci is out of the running and it's between Zerline and Alice, but with Lynn's vote. Uh it appears that Zerine would take it. >> So that did work. >> Yeah. >> Unless we want to have more discussion about it. >> I think that's good. >> Mhm. I have a [clears throat] a follow-up question, which is, you know, I I have mixed feelings about having a couple of folks who have already done ones um in the town. It would we ever invite someone to apply again next time or like hold on to a submission because, you know, we just didn't have enough boxes. Well, and I'll add um yeah, I've wrestled with those questions over the last weeks, too. And I'll I'll throw another one in there, and that is what if one of our artists either disappears that happened last year. We sent the good news, you know, you you're you're a winner. Never heard from him again. The year before that, um, when I think we had five boxes and one of them refused to sign the artist contract because that person insisted on keeping the copyright to it. So, we have had recent at least, you know, two instances where we wished we had an alternate And and I would say that, you know, if I look at these without knowing that someone had done one before, these would be the top that we'd come up with. But if we were weighing that someone had done one before, then, you know, they're two here. And and that does give me some pause. >> Mhm. >> But I But we don't have anything. We've we haven't discussed any restrictions on that. So, >> no. No, we haven't. >> So, I I So, when I was choosing in this round, I just put that out of my head that I knew they did it before. >> Mhm. >> And I don't know if that's what we wanted to do or not, but I it is something to think about. >> Mhm. I mean, do we is that something we would want to say in the future? And and I guess one question as I'm not familiar [clears throat] enough with the boxes, are there artists who've done more than one already >> in in in our collection? >> Uh, yes. I think there are, again, just going back to the time I've been on the committee, I think we've had I I know we've had two repeats So that's like two out of seven or eight uh boxes. >> But the these artists won't be like a third time, will they? >> No. >> Mhm. >> I think I feel comfortable with it and it might be worth having a longer discussion about it um as more opportunities come up. But >> going kind of purely like Lori said with how we selected it, maybe it makes sense to go with um you know the most check boxes here and then have two runner or alternate or I don't know I forget the word you use Tom but just >> you know backups in case >> alternate. Yeah. Yeah. >> I I feel like alternate could be an official designation to to be like next in line for >> Yeah. the next round of boxes. >> Yeah, I think we can do that. So, let me let me just query uh for everybody. Um, how do you feel about selecting three as awards uh and then one or even two as alternates? >> Mhm. >> Thoughts on that? >> To me? >> Yeah. Going back going back to the question about whether we could say anything to anybody other than an awardee about the future. Um, [clears throat] I think there's a this is stepping outside our current um focus here, but uh the the town the town's um director of recreation would like a mural on the bath house at the pool. And um uh the DPW has told me they have a big white truck they'd like to have muralized. It delivers, you know, tables and chairs to events around town, that kind of thing. So, there will be opportunities and maybe, you know, we can we can send a a mailing. I'm just speculating here. uh could send a a mailing alerting people we've con we've been in contact with before that there will be a call when there is a call that there is a call for for for those trying to balance fairness um on the so on the one hand we give artists equal chance to apply and as it were compete for awards here on the other hand not to uh not to waste talent that we've encountered. >> Okay. Okay. So, do we want do we want to again not not to hold our feet to the fire, but uh do do we want to do we want to select one or two alternates? People who would be notified that they were alternates. um you know you can on on this list I think put the Agular uh put a yes in my column so that we can see that it's kind of unanimous. >> Okay >> would be great. Um then I think you see that those really stand out and then >> Mhm. Um yeah. So in terms of alternates do we we have these two right? >> Mhm. >> And are we trying to rank those then? Is that the >> Well, that's one approach would be to say that let's take a look at the people who are sort of, you know, just just behind the three we've chosen, which is what we've got here at the top of Matt's chart. Uh, alternatively, you know, we could throw the whole thing wide open to say, you know, we can look at the whole list to see. I mean I would but you wouldn't necessarily be notifying these people. This is just for us in case someone drops out. >> Well, I have to um I kind of have to say something one way or the other to everybody. >> Um you know either you got an award or you didn't. We So the question here really the nub of this is whether we want to create a third category which is you know you didn't win an award but you're an alternate and of course they're going to write back and say what does it mean to be an alternate >> at which point I suppose I'd have to say that well if for some reason a person who was uh outright awarded a box to paint for whatever reason is not going to paint it then we go to an alternate. >> Okay. So then I mean and the way I'm seeing it it would be one of these two. I I don't think I would open it back up again because unless someone feels strongly about another one that didn't make it to the top. I think this is the right approach. We've we sort of done the ranking and struggled with the last three anyway. So, >> yeah, feel good about that. >> Okay. All right. So, are we It sounds like we're tipping in the direction of saying we'll do this the alternate. So, then let me sharpen the question to say, do we want one or two? I think one is probably useful enough for a batch of three. I think any more than three probably want to be talking about one to two instead. >> I agree. Plus, there's a pretty sharp difference between the votes there between the fourth and the fifth. >> Okay. Yeah, I'll I'll join that view. Okay. So, on uh it sounds like we're closing in on a consensus that Alice will be offered the alternate designation. Okay. All right. U uh let me have a motion to vote that Aguilar Liberaser and Zerline uh are the awardees and that Alice is the one alternate that we have selected. Um, I I make a motion that we um approve our selection of uh Agular Labraasor Zerine with Alice as the alternate or the electrify Ammerst. Next round of boxes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Seconded. >> Second. Any further discussion? Okay, let's vote. All in favor, please raise a paw. Okay, it's unanimous. Let the record reflect that it was a unanimous vote. Okay. Um All right. So, it's it's um it's 7 minutes after 6. Um, do we have Matt [clears throat] had re had voiced an interest in asking a further question about the the chair's report? I think with regard to the project manager, was it Matt? >> Yeah, I was just curious. I when I read the notes, I was just curious what the latest was on that. And if there's not more than what you already shared, Tom, that's quite all right. I was just kind of wondering >> there's not more, but I will recall uh from a meeting with Paul maybe maybe a year ago [clears throat] that he at that time said something to the effect that he might prefer to have the uh advisory committee be formed, convened and then hear their take on whether there would be uh whether they would recommend a project manager. My own opinion, this is just my own opinion here is that I I believe ever since then all his comments have been positive about having a project manager. Um I can pro I can propose that uh that I will send him an email asking him uh in fact I can do this tomorrow uh there'll be a part of the zoom interview session where the three of us who've interviewed for the interviewed the candidates for the uh um advisory committee. Uh so there'll be a chance there for me as that concludes to say, "Okay, now Paul, what what's next? What's our next step in getting getting a project manager?" Ask him that question right there and report that back to you all. >> And we have two um two members of this committee will be on that advisory committee. So I >> Lynn will be will be a member and David is going to be a member with uh Megan um as alternate here. So if if the workload gets too heavy or if David is not able to David had expressed some concern about what the workload might be and Megan Megan had volunteered and we voted we voted this at the June 30th meeting. >> So um >> so we have two from here. Yeah. Go ahead, Lori. >> Yeah. So, just one thing. Can you put uh do the stop share and then we can see each other, which would be nice. >> Oh, sure. >> Um also, um hi everyone again. Um I so knowing that we have these representatives and we especially Lynn who was was on board when we were doing all the research around how to um present [gasps] uh how to do this you know where we really came up it just came up very clear uh from our research that we would were really recommending a project manager. So I trust that she will represent that to the others on the advisory committee >> if if it comes to um up as the advisory committee being assigned to make that decision. >> So I I think that's just important that we we stand by what >> the APAC is recommending. Yeah, I think >> Yeah, Lori, I think one of the things that is accomplished by having two of our members on the [clears throat] uh on the um advisory committee is that they're perfectly situated obviously to alert us as >> Apac >> if they are concerned about well anything that transpires in in that uh format. My view has always been and again this is sort of half personal and half executive. This this view is that our role is to frame and monitor process and that the advisory committee has the lead for making decisions on for what for lack of a better term I'll say content and values. Mhm. >> Now, I'll remind everybody that whatever recommendation the advisory committee comes down to at the end comes back to us before it goes to the town manager. Now, I would not anticipate that we're just going to weigh it in and make our own value judgment. Um but if we are concerned about anything any aspect of how the process was con was conducted that would be our final chance to flag it. I would think that we would want to nip any problem and I don't anticipate that there would be. I'm just saying abstractly that if we got concerned about something procedural halfway through that committee's work that we'd have the chance to raise it and resolve help resolve it. We we went through a lot of this goes back to your original point uh Lori that Apac went through a lot of hand ringing about what's our role, what's the advisory committee's role. That's my distillation of how it comes down. Okay. Okay. So, I will um we'll put it to to Paul directly tomorrow to ask, okay, when and how do we move on getting this project manager hired? And uh I'll add to that that it's Apac sense that this this really needs to move ahead now. >> Great. Thank you. >> Okay. All right. Have we uh other other topics or um things to say, things to request for agenda coming up? >> Well, I just want to uh thank you, Tom, for how much work you've put in >> to everything that you've been working on and to lead this um committee. So, I just commission I just want to thank you. >> Thank you. Thank you. I do appreciate that. I in retirement, I work for thanks. Okay. >> That's what I tell the town. That's what I tell Castro Land Trust. You say thank you, I'll keep working. >> Thank you, Lori. Thank you all. >> Thank you, Tom. >> Okay. I I'll work for you, too. You need a room painted. [laughter] Okay. All right. Bye now.