Predicting The Future & Dealing With Hate - Gary Vee

what do you think most people don't understand about how attention Works how many how long are we in this this this could take the entire show I I think that um there's many things I think for the corporate marketer that's watching right now or listening meaning someone that works at a company right not a like an advanced company the let's call it the fortune 50,000 not even 500 they don't realize that they're living in a Academia boardroom environment on attention they're trading on potential attention not actualized attention historic attention not actualized attention they're not day trading attention they're buying attention of the past even though I think deep down they know they're not buying it meaning for simple terms for Everyone by the way hi everyone thanks for having me on the show The Reason most companies still spend an ungod amount of money on television outdoor Billboards uh uh print ads uh banner ads or pre-rolls or you know bad digital stuff is because their internal Reports say there's attention there and so the way corporate works is based on boardroom and fake reports so I think that whole set what they don't understand is where the actual attention is do I think they know do I think the 48-year-old that works at Tesla or BMW or or or Mountain Dew do I think they know I the 62y old do I think they know I think they actually really know but I think they also know that if they buy Tik Tock media that that hasn't made its way into their media agency conglomerate their corporation and it won't show up as row as positive return on investment positive so what and I think because of that they're not practitioners when I went through covid on Zoom with hundreds of CMOS CU now we had the opportunity to do that I was not flabbergasted but I was reminded how most of my great friends and contemporaries in Corporate America marketing are so far away from being a practitioner of social media creative of what's going on with micro influencers of my belief that people like yourself with are going to really disrupt CBG because not only have you built organic audiences not only do you know how to make actual content people want to watch but then even when you do advertising you can outflank them because you understand that the first second of a video on a Tik Tok or Instagram matter that the thumbnail matters that the copy matters the slang the terminology and more importantly that you know that you'd rather spend your money on social Creative Media or influencers over so many other behaviors they do so that's where attention is completely misunderstood in private Equity Venture Capital Wall Street corporations Fortune 5000 Madison Avenue on the on the the art World side all the people that are more than half of the people that are watching right now emerging influencers creators entrepreneurs Hustlers Grinders the ambitious I don't think they understand that it's everything and then thus they're playing at a seven like the people that we all see in our feeds our circles the Austin Miami La New York the crew I think everyone's at a seven meaning they might have Instagram or Tik Tok down might be doing a podcast they might be vlogging they might know who the micro influencers are they they they've watched me from the OG OG days all the way through all the beasts and the Pauls and the demilios and the nek boys and the U's and like they've seen it all uh but I don't think on a day-to-day this is why I called it day training attention I don't think if I when I look at the best the people with millions of followers I can see that they're still doing 16 months ago tactics four months ago tactics whether it's the thumbnail the copy the Carousel and definitely for the a players why they're not A+ why they're B minus they don't with LinkedIn enough they don't they don't they either are YouTube shorts or Tik Tok or Spotlight snap or Instagram and they're not all there are very few people on Earth and I'm proud to be one of them that H is actually doing d day-to-day creative organic social on all of them and I mean all of them and takes YouTube short nuances very seriously different than what x Twitter does and so for the a players the B players the reason they're not A+ is they're not Diversified enough against enough platforms and they're not once they hit they start to get distracted about other things rightfully so they expand they start cpgs they start going to Coachella and hooking up they start doing they start thinking about other things and it doesn't allow them and every one of them knows it right like think about the Contemporary set it's fun that could CH just happened every one of them knows it that when they were 16 19 23 27 they were 24/7 obsessed with whatever they were obsessed with and then when they start winning a little bit they take a little of the pedal and they start smelling the roses and that's amazing but it means that there's opportunity and for a lot of them they've plateaued right four years ago when I was yelling about Tik Tok a lot of people wanted to stay in Instagram because they had a million followers there and it was good for their ego and so they didn't want to start at zero on Tik Tock and now what's happened is a lot of those influencers creators entrepreneurs are rushing to catch up and what I wanted to do in this book is tell everybody like attention is it it's like working out you're in great shape clearly like okay you could do it well for four years but if you take off for two years like shit's going to happen and I just want people to stay on it and so what I think that people misunderstand and the attention is very detailed like I just broke down two sets there's many more um but it's very nuanced and detailed within it seems like the two big groups there are one despite the fact that social media is almost everything that people spend their time on their phones doing it's still underpriced and undervalued by most yes and definitely corporations which is what and there's all the money up there so allows us kids that's a competitive Advantage be more agile be closer to the ground right okay and then the second side of that to be I guess like a combination of of even people whose jobs are social media still a misunderstanding of how much Leverage is available about how broad to go and about how deep to go and then this temptation to Take Your Eye Off the Ball if some success does come you know yes almost everybody is less successful than they would like to be almost everybody is a CTO Zed list player that's listening and not a b or an a grade player which means that the thing the incentive and the impetus which is going to slow down the people at the very top is the competitive Advantage for the people that are further down the ladder correct and and and the reason I framed it as day trading attention tell me about that well I think you know day trading is something not everybody knows what that is but a lot of people know what that is and that's a very different way of buying stocks than the way I buy them like I'll be like seven years ago I'm like you know what Netflix is going to win I'm GNA buy some Netflix and I'm going to go to sleep and you got Maniacs right now all over the world like so you've got like create aggressively but trade lazily yes and so for me I wanted people to understand the tension is that way too and so I'm glad that you crushed it and went from obscurity to a million YouTube subscribers and you're crushing but you're 23 and you still have huge Ambitions and you're talking to all sorts of [ __ ] that you're the next Mr Beast but guess what I know you're not because you've already taken the foot off the pedal the last month and shit's happened and by the way that's okay I'm not here to say be aing Psycho I'm just saying the game is psycho and if you want to play it you have an opportunity and you have to think of it this way because the Styles the jokes the slang the platforms the algorithms all of it's moving nanc by nanc and either you're about that life or you're not you love this so my housemate Zach is way more terminally online than I am I don't use Tik Tok personally uh but uh Z does and he is an honorary CMO of my company Chief meme officer and he will tell me six months before something becomes mainstream on Instagram what's going to be the new meta on Tik Tok and then six months after it's mainstream on Instagram it then becomes the new meta kind of it breaks out into mainstream media like at the moment the like pedestrian cucked gasoline maxing like walk pilled cities of America um you know whether it's being dialed or locking in like all of the language moves so quickly and he'll tell me about the new meta and then we'll use it in ads on new tonic and then that'll spin away and I'll need to keep checking in with him I'll need to get the weather report yesterday was in San franisco getting a coffee before my talk guy in line says oh my God Gary ve you know very flattering nice little chat guy who Rings us up is a dude has nail polish Rings us up he Taps me after we had our nice pleasantry and I took a picture with him he Taps me on his shoulder again he goes do you remember like a couple years ago you said male makeup was going to hit he's like look at the guy who just rung us up I'm seeing that everywhere I'm like yeah he's like how'd you know that I'm like I live in the dirt your buddy Z lives in the dirt the end you're either an a anr this is an old music thing back in the 80s how' you the 70s how' you discover Me Metallica or Guns and Roses you had to be up at 2 o'clock in the morning and go into the bars and that's how you discovered Nirvana you either were an a anr that not only put in the work and was out to two morning 3 in the morning in LA in Seattle and New York at hip hop clubs you also had the ear right so Zach your buddy is not only putting in the time there's a load of people putting in the time he clearly has a talent to have a sense he has a smell of what might hit yeah he's picking up Trends and okay so let's say that someone isn't toward the top of the tree where do people fall short when it comes to building relevancy and attention online now in 2024 right this Nan as we film and record this the biggest framework perspective issue in the game is people make content for selfish reasons versus selfless reasons the number one thing that I think hurts people that are not winning is because look some people are just going to be attractive enough some people are just going to be charismatic enough some people are just going to have enough experience and expertise in something that it's going to be enough you want to talk that's more reliable and scalable than that yeah I mean just like the three things I just mentioned like that's just a DNA game or a circumstance game for me I wasn't attractive enough I you know maybe I was charismatic enough but I started making business content at 34 I'd already been doing it my whole life and I'd already built a very large business on day trading attention on email search YouTube social so I had the skills I wasn't 18 I'd lived through it already and could speak to it right not that 18y old by the way for all the year olds I was hustling since I was 10 I had things to say at 18 that were right so but I had experience I think for the rest of the crew that isn't that yet there's so much opportunity but I think even for the people that have the luck of the draw or the ones that don't the big game is most people make content to become famous Rich to scratch their own Egos and insecurities it's selfish I can tell you right now no question the biggest reason I think a lot of things work for me and things I observe in others is when I post something I'm like what's in it for them one of the reasons I never post like Bouie [ __ ] is I don't understand what's in it for the audience when you show them that you're drinking champagne on a private plane once in a while when I say this I'll get a DM or text from a buddy be like no bro it's aspirational I'm like bro there's unlimited aspirational [ __ ] out there you don't need to contribute it you you're doing it to flex so for me the first thing that people need to think about is why is this good now if you're a magician that does card tricks on Tik Tok it's good because that's Entertainment it's the reason people go to Vegas shows it's why we watch TV entertainment's good humor's good King Batch what is like he brings value he makes me laugh then there's people that give information inspiration there's a lot of things you can do right and so I think the framework of what's in it for them versus what's in it for me will really help most people listening right now especially given like how sharp I think the audience that listens to you is they're thinking of it very smartly like from a business standpoint from a like it's the game right it's the game I just if if they just added a little bit of like yes I understand you're trying to figure out what will go viral what will over index what will work how do I make it happen how do I build myself up I want to be a speaker I want to have a podcast I want to be an actor I want to own a sports deal whatever just man just something of like can you say something or do something that actually will bring value to someone before we started this you're like hey mate like the book went pretty like deep on the content that how I thought about writing the book we literally had this convo right before we started the am I writing this book for because I was ready to go so detailed because I know that people that are good like winners the kids the Zachs out there that they're going to listen on audio or read the book and they're going to get their $19 worth rid of Amazon's going to sell it for because they're going to get one tactic one that tweaks it and gets them value and so I think the first thing that they need to focus on is the perspective of what's it for them I know why you're doing it you want what do they want what's good for you're talking about adding value you know but in a real fundamental way like in the same way that those corporate know they're buying [ __ ] and not social I'm asking all the hustlers all the winners you know you're doing this for you just add a little something for them how can you judge that because it's very difficult to extract our own ego from the desire to grow our online platform we want to be validated by the world around us even the most delusional the most not conscious of us I just believe in the human Spirit when I say this I think even the ones that are Le the least in touch with our feelings the ones that have done the least amount of mental work the ones that are most cynical even those people I think as they're listening to us right now can have a sense of when they post something are they trying to bring value to the person on the other side of but have you got a more hard and fast rule than that no I don't I think so do you know here's one from a friend George ma he is Max content razor would you consume your own content if not don't post it yeah I think I think that's wonderful I think we the reason I say no I don't and why I think that's wonderful I think it all sits in the same cousin tree of analogies that one can use in this moment I it's not super complicated what's in it for them is this good did you say something that brings value whether you're being vulnerable and creating a connect vulnerability is a powerful one there's a lot of people winning out there uh last this was interesting literally when I landed last night late last night I've been traveling like crazy this week I literally tweeted man it's been a week and I was I saw the photo of you in the back of the car yeah exactly and I was like this has just like been I was without context and this is why written word has no context I was really like I didn't want to spell it all out I just kind of wanted to go with a quick tweet I was talking from the lens of like man this feels like 2016 right it was like New York to Miami Miami to West Palm West Palm to Miami Miami to San Francisco San Francisco to Austin and back to New York to like at midnight tonight then Saturday Utah back to you back to New York all one day like I'm like ooh this is 2015 life but I had a lot of people hit me up on DM on Instagram be like you cool because they're not used to they interpret it as like maybe I'm struggling or having a pothole or something and that was very very lovely and it reminded me how much vulnerability stops people in their tracks provides values allows people to be compassionate towards you and so there's a lot of ways to bring value I think Max rule is absolutely right like would you consume it like what I'm always like what's in it for them that's the one I go into my brand what's in it for them talk to me about the role of authenticity online now look I think people talk a lot about this and I think it's obviously very important uh and I the reason I think about it from importance is I I don't think it's very important short term I think it's incredibly important long term let me explain authenticity is something that gets exposed out over time you know that this I think is going to really land for you and a lot of listeners lots of people are tricking lots of people in the short term correct so the reason I like authenticity is why I'm on book Seven why I'm still here why in the 2007 89 social media world of just Twitter and a little bit of Facebook there was a lot of personalities and by the way I was probably the front runner to not be around a year later because I came out and I'm so loud I'm so over the top I'm so ridiculous and in 200 seven cursing and Casual dressing was so not invogue and I Remember The Whispers in the backstages I read the tweets of like oh the wine guy from Jersey Gary ve or whatever his name is he'll be gone in a year that's clearly just Sizzle and so for me authenticity speaks to like why I'm still here in 24 and why almost everybody I met in 2007 is not here and I think you know what is the importance of it I think it's a it's an incredible indicator of longevity I think in the short term it's hard to dissect most people don't really know people people pop out they get hot for their looks they're smarts they're what have you what I like about authenticity is I think it is incredibly grounded in the marathon more than the Sprint so I think for all the kids that are listening good news you can win in the short term with not being authentic you can fake the funk you can trick people to at scale especially with AI coming all sorts of [ __ ] you'll be able to trick the out of people for a little while and then you'll be exposed and then what are you going to do with the rest of your 90 years of life yeah well hypocrisy on the Internet is like catnip for people because do you remember you ever play you might not have been to a British pub in sort of the 2000s um there were these touchscreen games that would Spot the Difference and it was done with a timer and you had to hit the differences between the two things hypocrisy is basically like an ideological equivalent of that game you said this thing in the past you did this thing in the future I can compare what you stated from what you did or what you said and what you said and I see there's a discordance here and I'm going to bring it to bear because it's so perfectly designed for social media because I have the screenshot of the thing that happened before or the video and I have the video of now and people can compare and contrast yes two Dynamics on that one for everyone who's listening that doesn't mean you you're not allowed to change your mind of course right I think that's one of the most powerful wonderful things of a human and to your point if one then goes and owns that speaks to losses says hey I used to now I so a you're in control of that to your point when you're trying to say you didn't that starts to kill the lack of auth to see the other thing that's interesting about what you just said is man deep fake videos what a what a gamechanging reality we're about to walk into like you know one of the things I think a lot about is that people find what they're looking for so if you're looking for negativity you're going to find it if you're looking for positivity loves its company y I think with all these fake video I mean the amount of videos of you and I that will be on the internet in the next seven years next 10 years of things we never said literally in a decade from today most people will not believe any of the videos they see on the internet because there'll be more fake ones than real ones we're going into such a wild era that is going to reset so many things of Truth hypocrisy things of that nature but yes I have enjoyed that I'm I'm with you on what you just said it's been interesting to watch that I have a I got asked by a friend probably about a year ago can I give you I apologize can I give you a great example because I don't think a lot of people sit in both the Creator influencer entrepreneur world and in the Fortune 500 marketing world my favorite hypocrisy happens in Corporate America when you're the CEO of an old Media Company you're like Print TV it's awesome and then they go and get a job at Facebook or Twitter or Snapchat and they're like social media is number one but I'm like two weeks ago you just said that TV was number one yeah the hypocrisy of corporate animals based on what they're selling is at the highest what's funny about that is that's a such a vaulted world that very few of us are going to see you I can see what people LinkedIn post or tweet or or Instagram story or whatever but that thing that you maybe get to see in boardrooms and and SE Suites and stuff like that or if you just you know most of the people listening don't read ad age or ad week or PR week that's right right and so this little industry that spends all of the $70 billion do on television all the crazy [ __ ] that goes on in the world in marketing this goes back to the really exciting part of this conversation and this book to me is the biggest companies in the world are blowing it and individual little human beings like you and I yeah have the ability to get market share in a way that has never existed in the history of mankind in other news this episode is brought to you by nomatic their travel pack is my favorite backpack of all time you can tell this one is a bit worn because I actually use it every single day it is a complete Game Changer if you're someone that carries your stuff regularly you need a good quality backpack I cannot tell you how big of a change of quality of life it is when you have a properly engineered well-designed backpack that helps you to organize your life when you're on the move I even survived a full month on tour using a travel pack and a carryon because hold luggage is a scop meant to keep you poor and late and you can defeat them by getting better quality luggage nomatic has got thousands of five-star reviews from customers who love their product and everything comes with a lifetime warranty so if it breaks for any reason they will replace it for free right now you can get 20% off everything sitewide by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to Nom matic.com slod wisdom that's nomatic /od wisdom just to round out the authenticity piece please I think I heard this sentence a couple of years ago and I haven't been able to stop thinking about it speedrunning authenticity people trying to do that and that's what you were talking about before like how can I growth hack my way to seeming like I'm telling the truth seeming like I'm actually putting me into my content so I've been working very hard on this over the last six months or so when I first started the show I wanted to be seen as a um justifiable verifiable reliable intellect I wanted to have I was coming out of a time being reality TV person model club promoter professional party boy and I wanted to signal I am someone with real intellectual chops right so I almost sort of counter signaled from opening up I thought that that was sort of unrationed you know if my hero is someone like a Jordan Peterson or a Sam Harris you know I'm not seeing them getting super emotional Al some of that changes now um anyway recently I I've tried to put more of myself into the content two things has happened first thing is when I get uh compliments about it when I'm recording it I feel better when I get compliments about it they genuinely land because I invested some of myself into it but the other part is I actually think that I think that people see the humanity on the other side of that like the the way that it makes people feel when you put some of you into it not just playing the role anyone can win by saying the right mouth noises it's can you do that and it actually be you that's the question and there is a way you're right over a long enough time scale you're rolling the dice of playing a role eventually you might get rumbled you might thread the needle and dance through the Minefield and get out the other side fine but none of that success is going to land with you in any case it's going to be Hollow because on the other side of that it's going to be you looking back on this illustrious history of you being somebody else is that success that doesn't look like success to me I think that was extremely well said and it was funny I wanted to let you roll but I all my urges cuz I love to jump in and I know I get rased for that at times but it's just how I I my brain process is the way you started that whole Salo is uh was the most interesting part everyone is Dead on Arrival on authenticity when they start a sentence with I want it to be seen as it was crazy how my Spidey senses went off when you started that cuz what I realized when you said that was like right that's why this has always worked for me I I've never had the ability to be seen as you know I there was just something that triggered me so early in my life is what why I was such a poor student I never I never valued being seen as I I I didn't have that gear like I went through high school without feeling peer pressure which in hindsight now is like insanity like that is that's almost like robotic sometimes I even like Ras myself or like do you have feelings are you a robot like that's not right and of course I do and of course there was micro moments of it but yeah I think I think it's a a beautifully well said thing brother and I think for if you're sitting at home right now and saying I want to be seen as you're going to put yourself in a vulnerable spot because you're putting the weight of subjective opinions on the outside over your own Peace of Mind of navigating your game well ultimately if I look at a lot of the creators that I really love personally for me that I actually care about and I have a lot of faith in uh Mike isrel is a good example of this he's been on the show he's the um founder of Renaissance periodization Big Jim bro all he does is make incredibly sus jokes and break down exercise signs better than anybody else on the internet and that's him and I've hung out with him on camera and off camera and we've had phone calls and he is the same guy on and off and that's him and as he changes his content will change but it's not like his content changes and then he changes to catch up with it like he is leading from the front personally and yeah I I think that I think that trying to realize Here's the final thing as well just the point on authenticity if you do you you can never get it wrong of course not because the only game in life is to mitigate regret and if you live a fake life you could have a trillion all the all the girls all the guys all the trips all the handbags all the Lamborghinis I promise you I know unlimited 70 to 90 year olds that have all the stuff who are not living happy Lives who feel empty who have deep regrets and so yes of course what have been the biggest changes in the type of content that works online across the uh life cycle trajectory since you started creating to now wow you know I started creating February 20th or 21st 2006 that's when I did my first episode of Wine Library TV um and so a lot has changed you know it's funny my early instincts ended up becoming the game one of the reasons I had a lot of eyes on me back in 20067 was I was doing long form video on YouTube uh and then I started doing it on a site called viddler that was a big early mistake of my career there was this competitor to YouTube called viddler that had tagging and I was doing such long videos and people wanted to see the third wine I was reviewing so the lagging at the bottom you could click the little button and get to the third wine was like this profounding it didn't exist then how interesting yeah anyway nonetheless I so much has changed um first of all all of social media content in 20067 8 as public creators and influencers was only Silicon Valley Elite there was no normal people on it going back to Club life so many of my New York friends and La friends that are of my age who I didn't know because I was working in the liquor store and I was working all the time I didn't do as much nightlife but a lot of them I know now and they built their careers and everyone's kind of un you know found each other they talk often about the 2006 78 era of like these social media people myself included Zuckerberg eban Williams Travis from Uber of like oh we thought those people were nerds like that wasn't cool so the 206789 creators influencers content was more intellect more business more so more uh Innovation more techie there was no nobody was cool there was there was nothing cool about it and so a lot of it was if you go look back at I mean if I bet you if you read the first 10 million tweets which I assume from 2006 to 2 I don't know how long it took him to get there it is nerd it's Engineers it's front-end designers it's Python and Ruby on Rails Engineers it's startup Founders it's VC's and it's not VCS today which is like cool bro gim Bros that are also VCS it was Finance it was coders it was nerds I was when I tell you I was like a charity product I was like the industry the Web 2.0 Silicon Valley industry would point to me a lot in 2006 7 89 cuz I was a wine store owner in New Jersey of like see this isn't just San Francisco I was like an enigma so that was that also nobody thought in what I played out here nobody was thinking about this in like deep strategy first of all the biggest thing that changed is social media for the first decade was email marketing amass as many followers as you can and a certain percentage of them will see it every time you post now in the last three years we've lived through the tiktock ification of all social media now what you mean when you say that we now live in a social media world where somebody listening right now that's 17-year-old you and I does not even have a profile starts a Tik Tok account and her or his third post gets 2 million views that didn't exist ever for the first decade it couldn't happen she would have only had 11 followers now the Tik Tock of vacation the for you page of vacation of every platform the AI algorithms the it is now around interests not around who you follow means that every individual piece of content now has the potential to reach a level of awareness that is far outreaching the effort you've put it into it it's the OIC and steroids of social media well it's made it's made social media much more egalitarian and go the meritocracy that we're living in right now I mean like I'm getting I always know when I like like we're talking about something important right now this is how I'm always right the Goosebumps are it's the animalistic attraction as well the the [ __ ] you mean to you yes you are very handsome uh no when I when I know I'm talking about something that matters I get goosebumps which is why we you know some people you know Bartley talks about AI or pressing a but I just look at my Goosebumps so like dust and make sure we clip this um the Merit of this game right now and it intoxicates me and I got the gray hairs and the wrinkles I've put in the work for the last 20 years and I'm pumped that I've been commoditized on the Merit of the it it's the lion eats lion it's the there Sports you can't cheat like what I love about social media right now is it's Merit based you're only as good as your next post when I tell you I want to eat this I'm that excites the out of me and I love that for everyone who is sitting right now I mean talk about something inspirational you're listening right now because you motivate them and they see me on it I'm like yeah either I like that guy or that guy but they're listening right they're sitting right now and they're not in a good place they're like man I blew it or I missed it or It's s the fact that if they believe me because it's 100% true if they're sitting there and be like wait a minute my single post about what I know about Zelda my individual post back to UK culture of like wait if I nerd out about darts in detail is that what these two love it like I think like what do I think about British culture darts like that's where you go it's darts fish and Chi and tea um you know if we if we if you really if you really think about that you know going global like wait my unbelievable knowledge of cricket if I break that down in a green screen or do this like knitting right or like uh Nick morus one of my top dogs at Vayner media because he finally heard me and he wanted to be a practitioner not just an executive he flips egg omelets flips them you might have seen him he's the guy who takes an egg like just egg flips in ear and catches it he has a Tik Tock or Instagram I think that has more views than I've ever had in my career that's amazing like to me I just love the opportunities of back to finding what you're looking for for everyone who's listening right now who still has either a lot or a glimpse of optimism left please listen one more time because I'm going to repeat it for the in the back the fact that tomorrow you can start you decide to go after something you either really know or you really love how going back to what's changed the day before I started Wine Library TV I can't believe I'm saying this 18 years lat later because I lived in I sat there and said I'm doing this YouTube thing and I debated two things will I do a wine show because I know more about that than anything or will I do a show about the New York Jets because it's the thing I love the most I almost did a jet show and I ended up doing a wine show and I want everyone listening right now about their content on social am I going to talk about something I know the most I'm an accountant I don't love it I don't hate it because if you hate it you'll be dead I don't hate it but I don't love it but mother I know accounting and I also know I'm silly and I'm a bro or silly girl and I'm just going to make it a little more entertaining y or I'm an obsessed with Avatar and I'm just going to make unlimited Avatar movie content I don't think people realize that most people if they go hard for a couple of years on what I'm saying that on a bad day they're making 80 to 150,000 a year in merch and a couple brand deals in pre-roll right and for a lot of people on earth making 150 talking about proper football instead of making 230 being an executive in the state organization doing landscaping is a much better life or even better because I actually believe the even more extreme I think over time everybody will make more than if they hate their job of making social media content around their passions or expertise and I think that's a level of Merit longtail entrepreneurship cuz we think about this [ __ ] from a Mr Beast from a Logan Paul standpoint most people are not going to make millions of dollars a year in Social but most people have the opportunity to make hundreds of thousands and that longtail is misunderstood right now talk to me about when it comes to the specifics of content style what do you what do you think have got the greatest upside at the moment everyone's talking about vertical video about face to camera uh substack I think has got like tremend it's one of my favorite I don't know whether you'd call it social media I guess it's kind of what medium should have been yeah that's exactly right it's content subscription I think medium [ __ ] the bed there and absolutely I mean they had it they absolutely had it E Williams is probably one of my three favorite uh is that the dude behind medium right Willam he's also the dude behind Twitter I Know Jack gets a lot of the credit now okay in 2006 S8 Jack invented the concept EV ran the company EV EV was EV was this was the guy at bare minimum they were the co- guys but the6 789 era of Twitter was at Williams he also was bibo which he like he he's like not bibo excuse me um blug spot he sold something to Google I apologize it definitely wasn't bibo it was something else he I think blog spot or something of that nature if I and he also then did a pot after he sold a big company to Google he was about to build a podcast company and then Apple podcast came out he was smart he was like this is going to lose shut it down very smart and then Twitter um he did Medium you're right they were very close I was so I was so bullish on medium uh and substack I think innovated that same similar to dig and Reddit right dig was Reddit Y and then blogger thank you blogger is what Ed Williams did from content strategy side um someone says Gary I found my thing or I have an idea what my thing might be it's going to be Cricket or te or dots um what should somebody be thinking about I think a lot of people get stuck in the to make mechanisms yes let's go into it let's go nerdy first it's a self-awareness game there is multiple mediums that work in communicating I'm glad you brought up suback sub substack because it allows me to go there there is the written word there are people listening right now who know more about video game 1980s culture than anybody in the world however they're very self-aware and they're like this [ __ ] I'm not going on camera I don't have the Gift of Gab I'm incredibly awkward with my words I'm shy I don't like it good news do you like to write huh I'm a little bit more there or they have great Gift of Gab but the camera makes them it kills them great you got video you've got audio and you've got the written word if you want to go to the extremes you could even animate and cartoon it you could even go that far but that's a little bit of a further putt but what would I say first you have to know your medium the preference is video cuz video is a starting point to everything else I do audio and written word without doing it because everything's extracted from my video so video is the Holy Grail no question Video Killed the Radio start like that's right however it is not required that's very important for people to hear number two once you decide to do it you have to decide your medium so for example if somebody who's listening is really into modern IP law with AI coming with nft culture with Disney with Pokemon LinkedIn and YouTube are going to be much better mediums for them potentially than let's say Facebook right but if you're into parenting Dr Becky big shout out she's getting a lot of momentum Facebook's a dream so you have to know where your audiences are you have to know what mediums and then per medium becomes the creative variable meaning Linkin is a monster for the written word you write a epic for stack like New York Times opend blogging medium you write 12 a newsletter person you write 12 paragraphs of fire about something B2B or business oriented and you post that on LinkedIn with a good picture they're now for you page up will get you lots of views lots of reads and and Linkedin is a very different audience you get one proper to read that you're getting a message on LinkedIn that's going to make you money B2B and like andc like grownup business LinkedIn is one of the biggest opportunities that people Miss because for example this iconic cpg brand you're building if you write four paragraphs on your strategy of something you see on LinkedIn that may lead to a business development deal that will never happen on Instagram where you're building consumer the distributor from Walmart happens to come across it you got it y right and Linkedin is so Global it could even be a small you know C uh live shopping player in China like it people don't under understand what's going on so to answer the question is they'll all work when you go into them it starts getting into real culture when you're writing something your headline matters it's good old newspaper if that link didn't post the variable is going to be your opening headline what do you think about when it comes to copy for a headline I think about like what is unique can you say it different um what can and I I'll tell you the biggest thing I actually thank you for being so good at interviewing you're pushing me in a good place um when I think about social media creative I think about it in consumer segmentations something I call cohorts so when I make content I'll make content for I'll think like okay I'm making this for 48 to 55y Old parents of a 21-year-old and it's a wealthy family and the kid is lazy but they were the parents that made all the money because they grew up poor and they have anxiety that their kids's lazy but they're the ones that created the nepotism because they pay them money that's the content being made for cohorts with teeth that was a very narrow thing I wasn't saying parents so I think when I think in headlines I'm like what narrow group am I writing this for I'm going to write this article and this headline is going to be written for the buyers of the biggest retailers in America Title what big box retailers don't know about beverages you see what I just did improv that my brother uhoh that my brother that's that's why I wrote this book that's what I know is missing right now people are trying to hack the alos they're looking for best practice that's wonderful that's called P platform strategy but then there's the C I call it pack platforms and culture and then you have to have consumer cohorts so you have to know the platforms absolutely vertical this Carousel that live stream this like best practices as you know this Tik Tok and Instagram are now littered with characters that do the Gary ve thing and tell people what the best platform things are but the platforms tell you the Instagram guys making content every day like this is what Instagram cares about you just follow every time Tik Tok puts out an announcement that's what they're going to do it doesn't take a superhero to understand if if meta says we now care about carousels go make Carousel like Jesus the culture the strategy the headlight like the the way I'm thinking here like who are you making it for why are you bringing let's go back to something I said earlier okay so now you're writing a LinkedIn post what big box retailers don't know about the beverage Market if you write this as a press release for you you're being selfish with the hope that the Walmart bias said that article is not going to hit if you really take a step back and spend 30 hours analyzing what's happening at big box retailer with drinks and understanding something that they're overestimating you can now say you could start it with like one of the biggest mistakes about how big box retailers think about their relationships with Coca-Cola and Dr Pepper is they overvalue what poppy was a what prime was able got it liquid death got it that [ __ ] love that [ __ ] that level of depth is missing in the game right now and that goes for everything you want to be a fashion brand what's the micro influencer strategy do you go to Coachella not to be at Coachella but to film everything for you to post- produce it for your social content because no photo shoot in a studio like this could ever replicate the actual energy of a festival where the cool kids are cooling out things like that in other news this episode is brought to you by netsuite the less your business spends on operations on multiple systems on delivering your product or service the more margin you have and the more money that you keep but with higher expenses on materials employees distribution and borrowing everything costs more so to reduce costs and headaches smart businesses are graduating to Nets Suite by Oracle netw Suite is the number one Cloud Financial system bringing accounting financial management inventory and HR into one platform with netsuite you reduce it costs because netsuite lives in the cloud with no Hardware required and access from anywhere you cut the cost of maintaining multiple systems because you've got one unified business management suite and you're improving efficiency by bringing all of your major business processes into one platform over 37,000 companies have already made the move net Suite has extended its one-of-a-kind flexible financing program for a few more weeks so right now you can get that by following the link in the show notes below or heading to netsuite.com slod that's netsuite.com slod talk to me from a platform perspective a lot lot of people are going to be asking this question okay so I have a number that are in front of me I can do written word on LinkedIn I can do written word on substack I can do vertical video Tik to Instagram I can even do that on Facebook I can just simal post it from Instagram across on the Facebook can do YouTube shorts Etc what are the platforms over the next three to five years that you're the most bullish and bearish on I can't answer that question cuz not my brain thinks let me explain what I mean day trading attention is don't romanticized about yesterday Instagram and don't try to get too excited about tomorrow Elon posts yesterday Vine question mark right so Vines come don't overthink today I don't know what's going to be there in three to five years I definitely wouldn't like the reason I'm good at my game is when it happens I'm all in so I can only speak about today and anybody worried about three to five and people ask me all the time what's next three to five years I don't know I know that meta and Google are not going to disappear so I continue to think they'll innovate or m&a and be in game as macro companies but YouTube shorts was not in the cards for me three years ago right but then Tik tok's pressure made them go there I think Vine is going to be massively interesting to watch when they reboot is that coming back 100% I'd be it would make it would be elon's too smart to not do it does Twitter own Vine yes right okay and that was part of the deal yes once you know but they shut it down but it's still there right and they own the IP and you know I mean Vine is the absolute seed of this generation short phone video started online it was a profound thing when it hit I remember looking at it day one I was like o this is different different and it just completely captured youth culture at that time and I was very serious about it as a matter of fact I launched you can Google this right now everyone listening I launched probably I mean the article said it like the first influencer agency called grape story with Jerome jar one of the first celebrities on Vine and we signed Logan Paul Rudy monus like all of these characters Britney Furlong like King like we were talking to all of them so I to answer your question directly and not get too scattered here I I don't know what 3 to 5 years is going to bring I know that for everyone who's listening the answer is more and yes and and meaning my argument with everyone here today is every minute that you don't spend on Gathering more attention is a minute that you're potentially declining on your long-term opportunity there's times to cash in on your attention there's times to do other things but I feel like a lot of people will go you know we talked earlier about regret the only things I regret as a businessman is not going harder on my thumb on the scale every time where I knew the attention was I should have made more Tik Tok videos six years ago I should have done more Google ads in 2001 I should have sent more emails in 96 I should have done more Tweets in 2007 and so whether it's you know we haven't talked about live streaming I mean there's so much going on with twitch and all these live streaming platforms t T Tok live is very important look we don't 3 to 5 years what if Tik Tok gets banned by America in seven months where does all that attention go right I mean to me that's a huge opportunity for Vine if I'm Elon I'm sitting like okay if I time this perfectly and I'm Elon right like I'm that guy if I announce Vine the day to like I could probably get every like it could happen in that would be insane what a strategy you know and so I don't know I know that as I sit here today write this Nano second Instagram's harder than ever because the supply and demand curve on Instagram is hard more content was made on Instagram yesterday than ever in the history of Instagram but the attention has been fragmented into YouTube shorts into Tik Tok so how can Instagram be as good as it was four years ago it's not supply and demand supply and demand supply and demand of attention I know that YouTube shorts has a longer tail on its views than anything else because YouTube's the second biggest search engine in the world so I know when I make a short on YouTube I title it in a way that more matches search than I would on Tik Tok because I want somebody in four months to search how do I do and I show up right these are the things I obsess over this is why I went so nerdy in this book I went so [ __ ] detailed that was only a recent update with regards to shorts that they were using keywords in title for search it it it is only been a recent thing more people have talked about but from the day it started was showing up in result yeah something we've it's something that we've certainly uh used on the channel that we'll put if there's a short that comes up from this it'll be whatever the title of it is line Gary ve Gary Van CH whichever is based on higher for search volume um okay so is there room in your opinion actually even better question than that Naval released Air chat yes this week what's your thoughts I love it I'm really enjoying it I went ham this weekend this has been a crazy week for me so I've been a little bit sad that I haven't been able to jam with it as much first of all I love the beginning stages of seeing AI so integrated into native social right so for everybody who doesn't know chat you know it's ironic you may know this it's been around for almost four years MH they keep iterating it and the latest version of it has really caught fire last week with by the way all those nerds from 20067 the Josh elans the mazios like all my favorite homies from back in the day they're all there it's way it always works the Nerds are always a few minutes before the cool kids so air but now you see a blend back to cool kids being on there over the weekend in a way that we've never seen before not even Clubhouse It's usually the Nerds now for air chat to not become Clubhouse or other things AKA a feature right because Twitter SPAC is his Clubhouse it needs to keep innovating but it's really cool right so for everybody doesn't know it's it it's very much like Twitter but the difference is it's all audio so you record your Tweet but then it trans inscribes it into the written word but when you consume it you can read it or listen to it and when there's a conversation or a thread of tweets it will just play almost like a podcast it's really neat there's a lot of cool things in it um so the way I think about things are are they features or are they permanent platforms so is this going to get gobbled up by some existing larger platform and just get folded into the correct feature list that's right so obviously Twitter would be a natural because it's it looks most like Twitter um but this might have too much friction for that the answer is the verdict still out but when I think about the things that people have asked me about in the last several years uh Dustin is filming in the background right now you remember I was really on it with B real people are like B Real's next I'm like I think it's going to be a feature right like I don't see like now be real could have built on top of it snaap did snap early could have been a feature and then they built more things into it and then obviously their killer feature stories became foundational to every platform so you know I'm always paying attention when new platforms pop uh recp I don't know if you've seen this this one's on my mind a little bit again I've been watching it for several months it hasn't popped yet it's it's on your phone it's recording everything that you're talking it's it's a recorder of everything oh it's Amazon yeah it's like it's what people are scared of thinking what Alexa is talk about conspiracy theorists uh but here's the interesting part it's it's only recording the last 2 minutes so it doesn't record everything it's a rolling last two minutes you know what that allows to happen when you're oh we just said that thing oh that's very smart that's cool very that's cool the reason I thought Tik Tok was going to explode musically was I'm like oh my God this is social media or training wheels they're giving people music they're giving people all these edits it's going to help non-c creators be better creators yeah the reason I like reclip it allows everybody in the world to be an audio content creator or video cuz then when you when you're done with the reclip you can like add features to it and it becomes like a Tik Tok I think they're on to something again these are I'm always watching but I don't anoint it's even rare for me to mention something like reclip in such a prominent platform like this podcast because I don't want I don't I on the record airack recp I don't know but I'm always in the lab watching I'm always refining my day-to-day social back to day trading attention and I'm always watching for the next wave and sometimes something I'll I'll tell you this what I learned on social cam social cam was a social network I think in 2011 or 12 that was hot for I don't know 48 seconds AKA a summer but I'm created on it that helped me understand what to do on Vine it was even like Vine actually hit social cam didn't but it was short form video and so when vine came I was like wait a minute and then obviously when the whole next era came I was ready for short form video talk to me about long form content versus short form and we can fold into that conversation uh volume versus quality depth of content as well I think uh a lot to talk about there yes to your first question they both work people watch a three-hour movie if they love it or a 45 minute Vlog I did very well with daily B they were long and people watch 7c videos that crush and people will not watch 7c videos because they're garbage and people will definitely not watch 25-minute videos if they're garbage so that goes back to self-awareness like are you capable of doing a vlog or a you know like or a great video series or you not same with short form quantity quality quantity is not debatable you either make 97 pieces of content in a month or you don't quality is completely subjective either this person's attractive funny insightful or not I'm very high on that however I do think that people I think I didn't do a good enough job contextualizing when I would you know I've been screaming on social for seven years volume volume volume volume the reality is is it's a quality quantity ratio volume if you're capable if you have a lot to say if you have a lot of jokes if you have a lot of good looks if you have a lot of techniques if you have what if you have [ __ ] to say go go go go go different ways edits different you know if you don't of course not this goes back to earlier why I'm obsessed with passion or expertise you're dead if you're not doing passion or expertise you just won't have enough juice there's not enough fuel in it passion will take you forever which is why I like that actually more but expertise especially if you don't hate it I always get worried about expertise because a lot of people think that they know because it's their profession they don't like and I do think that fuel will run out as well but to answer your question one more time to recap for everybody both long and short form work and don't work it's based on how good are you I think quantity matters in future AI word world you're going to get drowned out by the qual quantity of content if you are not commited to quantity but yes of course it's predicate on the quality of that quantity I just think you should have more at bats many of the posts I put out with all this 20 years of expertise and writing the book and being that guy I miss all the time but I love that feeling like I'm trying to learn I saw somebody uh the other day in a piece of content making fun of me and my team for doing all sorts of different [ __ ] and I was laughing cuz I'm like no no that's the game the point I think he was trying to make is like he's lost his way he doesn't know what he's doing he's just thrown we're not thrown against a wall see what sticks we're exploring different features and things to try to learn what's next and I have the humility for it to not do well do you know that the reason most people suck at social media is they're scared to not get as many views as their little fragile ego needs to go through the day I don't give a I'm I'm streaming on Twitch on mute in my office 83 people watching I don't give a that doesn't take away from everything I'm doing do you not think that there's a degree of Optics like people uh naturally use popularity as a proxy for quality of course uh so to a degree if there is if you're consistently posting in a way that isn't getting not saying that this is what you're doing but if you're consistently posting in a way and it's like 83 likes nine likes like that Sav something to your audience about you know when you look at YouTube and you see thumbnail you see title you see the name of the Creator you see how long it is like those are important metric but when you go on you see how many people have viewed that video you it depends on what if you're trading for popularity sure or the perception of popularity sure depends on what you're trading on for me if 80 people are watching me on Twitch while I'm on mute all day there's really no reason to watch it but I'm just experimenting if someone then decides like Gary ve fell off or sucks that person is incredibly not smart I'm not all I'm not super worried about losing with losing players yeah that's an interesting way I think a lot about the time of uh cultivating the audience that you want uh and being very careful about the sort of people that you attract you know you can throw red meat and you can do the audience capture thing and you can be predictable there's something I can get a 100 million views tomorrow if I decide to go crazy on something I don't believe on that will go the entire audience into watching who the wants that like it depends on what you're playing for too many people are trying to win with losing players and too many people are not trying to win with winning players one of the things I tell a lot of kids that fake the funk when they pitch me businesses I see you're Gathering your thoughts because I want you to hear this I think you really like this no no I totally get it um one of my favorite meetings to have is a kid that comes in that's got it you know the juice but I'm like listening I love listening to a pitch and I realized that she or he just pitched me and it would work on 99% but not the 1% and what I mean by that is I'll go into something specific they go where I know they're embellishing and I'll go very narrow if it's a place I'm comfortable I know what I'm talking about and I know a lot about a lot of stuff this is why I started Vayner media the main reason I started Vayner media was to know as many different things about as many different businesses as possible and build the biggest marketing Communications company in the world that I could deploy against my other behaviors when I got older for me it's always been about 60 to 70 like that's when I'm going to strike like a cobra this right now is a just foreplay this is just a setup this the jab anyway when I'm in a meeting like that I had this happen the other day with a kid and I went deep and I was like and I could see the kid was a little bit like because I was like calling him out and he by the way he crushed it like would I'm like this kid's going to win you know that Charisma that salesmanship and there was a lot of good stuff but he was full of [ __ ] on like three or four things but that was complicated to know it but it just happened to be in a space that I knew enough to be able to go there he really took it well which was what I wanted to see which I which gave me even more confidence that he's just 24 and he's going to get there and then I said something to him that I really I say a lot of [ __ ] and I'm into this [ __ ] but I I like those moments where I'm like I think this person just internalize this and it's going to be like a thing and I can't wait for them to dominate and I'm going to be old and they're going to be like car V want said to me 30 I like that stuff and I like it for him I said brother you're going to win with 99% of losing players the problem is you do that pitch again to the 1% winners you're going to lose with all of them and they're the only people that matter and this is that Recaps what we just talked about so yes do I think perception is reality yes I do do I think brand matters over everything I sure do but I think that if people the biggest issue with the world right now is people want to take everything out of context have no con AC of we've eliminated intent people trying to cancel everybody cancel culture was a disaster cuz it tried to cancel people without understanding their intent if somebody is a beautiful person they just didn't know the proper slang or didn't know and they just had no ill will the trying to get them fired for yeah similar to somebody seeing a video of like Mr Beast on a post on Snap only have 80,000 views and be like oh he fell that that's not smart that's not understanding what people and by the way back to your journey and his journey and the journey that I had with empathy wines and kind of new cpg was next and why I talked about it forever and why I built rner media to be in cpg a lot of creators are going to care less about how many maximizing views they're going to care about views that translate into cpg sales or hours allocated to meetings in Bonville or hours allocated to being on Tik Tock live like shit's going to change [ __ ] changes but the lack of courage and curiosity of the A-list to try new [ __ ] because they're worried about what we just talked about is why a lot of those people are going to end up in the b list in other news this episode is brought to you by ag1 it's important to me that the supplements I take are of the highest quality and that is why for over 3 years now I've been taking ag1 they conduct Relentless testing to set the standard for Purity and potency everything that they make is the highest quality it's NSF certified meaning that even Olympic athletes can use it and they've updated the recipe 52 times over the last decade as new research and sourcing has come in I'm massively focused on gut health at the moment and a1's ingredients are insanely heavily researched for efficacy and quality and I love the fact that they've got Pro and prebiotics plus digestive enzymes to help support my gut best of all there is a 90-day moneyback guarantee so you can buy it and try it every single day for 89 days and if you do not like it they will give you your money back you can get that 90-day money back guarantee and try ag1 with a Year's free Supply vitamin D and five free ag1 travel packs by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to drink a1.com wisdom that's drink a1.com wisdom give me a handful of creators that if you could bet on them somehow over the next couple of years you would think about or it could just be the ones that you find yourself coming back to like you can't wait when you see the their videos top of your suggested love you for adjusting based on my facial reaction that's not why I made that face I'm very weird when it comes let me let me explain what I mean by this I don't consume like let me give you an example I don't know if I'm betting on her Nick Dio hit me up with um with someone yesterday and I I spent like I loved it um it's not that I'm betting on her let me see if I can find this um she's like an in like an intern like this she's got 37 followers on Instagram or 137 and and Dio said I bet she has 50,000 in a month and I'm like you're right and what why I'm let me tell you where I'm going with this I don't go deep on people or influencers or content creators I go very wide I'm looking for macro Trends and and things that I think I can contribute to the conversation in podcasts like this so for me I don't actually cons consume anything I cons and I consume everything I'm trying to like really the reason I said I'm weird and like I'm trying to figure out how I can break this down I am seven years ago would answered Mr Beast yet I've never watched a Mr Beast video in my life like Charlie demilio was in my office for her first business meeting I might have watched one full 8C dance video of hers to know like I'm going so broad right 310 baby as a rapper of like do I think like I I'll listen to a song first minute there's something in the way that I because I'm trying to consume everything it's almost like I don't have the time to go deep enough and so I'm not great I'm disappo in a weird way I'm disappointed in myself to not be able to answer your question cuz I've seen 50 of them in the last 50 weeks but I a I have some form of reading comprehension issues and dyslexia where like words are hard for me so like I could tell someone that I saw them in an airport in Dubai for and I could tell them we talked about peanuts 13 years ago and I could have seen their social media 90 times and they they could say what's my name and I'm like I don't know yeah yeah it's kind of I guess so I guess I've got it in my head that you're like a a meteorologist but for social media you're trying to be the weather report you're trying to take the big macro Trends what's going and and I'll see things and I like like but it it's very hard for me to say like especially because I like being historically correct so I'm not going to sit here and say like you know I think I can tell you the profile because this might help a lot of people yeah what's the kind of person that will succeed over the next few years on social media the the ones that can get the noise out the biggest reason people won't win in social media is people don't have the stomach to handle the feedback people won't have the stomach for The Changing Winds of day trading they'll be on a pedestal on Tik all these Tik Tok [ __ ] and I say F like I'm one of them like the people that are winning on Tik Tok right now their day will come their day will come where the attention shifts and they won't be ready and will they be ready after having four years of being on to do it again do you have the intestinal Force itude to be in perfect you you're in such great shape if you go through a period of your life for 3 years where you do all the wrong things and you wake up three years later and say I'm getting back to this dude do you have the strength because once you know the hardest thing is once you were there when you lose it to get back right if you if you were making five million a year let's say you were making 40,000 a year and then you blew up on social and you had two years where you made three million a year but then you're not popping on social anymore do you have the strength to go back and put the work in to get back to that place that do you have the emotional capability to take one step backwards to then take two steps forward do you have the grit do you have the self-esteem do you have the ability to deal with the EB and flow do you have think about the people that get trolled are you going to cry and disappear or you going to be Logan Paul and become a WWE Superstar like do you have the strength to deal with criticism at scale do you have the strength to deal with the toe bumps the biggest reason people aren't entrepreneurs is entrepreneurship is losing constantly with the occasional win it looks cool but people don't love eating [ __ ] talk to me about how you deal with criticism and the inevitable ups and downs of success you're someone that has got both by being empathetic to it being a reality of life it's inconceivable that you want attention and you're not going to have judgment in a world that is obsessed with taking things out of context and only headline reading there's no common sense to that I don't take it personal I care about the Judgment of the most inner circles that I have family and friends employees inner circles acquaintances that became friends like I can't be upset if Johnny 97 thinks I'm a dick f because my energy is too much I'm also empathetic I know that my Alpha competitive high energy Jersey like I know what this is that's not for everybody some people want to Zen out if you want to Zen the out I'm not your guy and so I'm just too empathetic I also think it's humility at the end of the day I'm like who the am I gives a if I die tomorrow what's going to happen I'll get 24 hours of Love on social right people will be like oh man this what the like you know like and then a year later do you remember Gary Vee 100% and luckily we live in an era where we're more like all of us are more like the most famous people in the world like we'll live forever like a clip from this like do you know how cool it is that our great do you know how fun it will be this is insane your and my great great great grandchildren will somehow realize because last names things will change but somehow if they became great friends would somehow family tree it and be like holy [ __ ] and they're gonna hey hey Jeremiah 794 like they will literally watch this do you know how cool that is but at the end of the day how do I handle it humility and empathy talk to me about just that immediate emotional reaction I think that overcoming that is something that a lot of people struggle with well I think that's right you know look I I I think you know it's nice in the in the the the stark contrast with with the nice perspective and I I don't disagree um price it in is the cost of doing business cost of doing business business you put things on the internet people are going to say mean stuff to you and fighting against that is like King canut trying to stop the tide but that do you know fighting yes okay you know some people like like getting punched in the face yes friends with Tim Kennedy yes I like getting punched in the face that's my answer I don't know what else to tell you yep it's part of your nature it's my nature I was [ __ ] on my whole life I was a Russian immigrant I came over here Russia was the bad guys when I came here so I got [ __ ] on grade school I didn't speak English when I move I this is a story I tell very rarely very rarely I think I've done it once or twice I'm going there I often talk about I lived in people that really know me my story is I went from Queens to Edison New Jersey Edison New Jersey where I became a Jets fan and entrepreneur but it's not fully true Queens to Dover for a year then Edison Dover doesn't make my story I never understood why but I'm starting to tap into it it was bad because I didn't speak English and because I went out outside a lot I got picked on a lot and it was a rough neighborhood I remember one story that's the main story I remember of that era where I saw the kid pee in the Pepsi cup like by the tree and they came over and the seven of them bullied me to drink it I was five five and I kind of like tried like if I I don't it's very blurry I mean it's 43 years ago but like I didn't speak English obviously when you're an animal like a human at 5 you know what's happening but like then I was a terrible student I was D's and Fs and this was the 80s there was no political correctness my teachers literally would look me in the face these are grown-ups they're your teachers you look up to them they're like you are a loser you're dumb you're gonna fail you're going to be a garbage man then I also love sports I played Sports all the time do you know what happens when you play sports you lose a lot you win sometimes but you lose a lot video games this and I sold stuff I did lemonade stands I would sit on tingly Lane in Edison New Jersey as a nine-year-old and I would watch Millions let's take a step back I would see hundreds of cars drop by and not stop for my sign and occasionally get one I live life under the mindset of it's all [ __ ] but it doesn't matter the [ __ ] doesn't matter it's the sunshine the occasional sunshines that is everything and I think people live the reverse little ounce of poopy makes them cry because they're soft because they're not hard enough because they're not loving themselves I love myself too much to give up about you I don't know what else to tell you I don't want to be delusional I don't want to be living in my own EOS I respect other opinions I internalize for processing other opinions but I have no interest in putting your subjective opinion about me above my opinion above me that's how I deal with it neediness occurs when you place someone else's opinion of you above your opinion of you period I don't put my parents' opinion above me I don't even if I'm not going to do that my parents who I love the most who built me if I'm not putting my mom's opinion about me above me on me how the am I going to do that about Charlie or Rick or Susan or hassim you I'm interested in what drives you now I get when there's a point to prove that when you're an immigrant that when you've been picked on that when you've been told you know what's funny my my my spirit doesn't come from that chip on the shoulder even though I just spoke with passion about it mine's about curiosity of I like the game I'm curious in a wild I would have loved to have been a professional athlete I'm so sad I wasn't that would have really really satisfied me because the data was there if I was a running back in the NFL I would have been it would have been over and I would have ranked 97th in career rushing yards 400th in career touchdowns right uh 18th in receptions by a running back and I could have like I would have enjoyed that I would have been like ah good for Barry Sanders he was better than me and like you uh Ricky Williams I was better than you that's what drives the [ __ ] out of me and Entrepreneurship ship I love this game of brand building and business building it you know as a I'm talking what drives me as a as a professional as a human what drives me is to be happy as often as possible and and interact with the people I like the most as often as possible but so much of what I love and what makes me smile is the friendships I make through the process of business the family I make through business it's so for me and I'm curious I love where I'm at right now I've done well but there are unlimited people on stats that have done better than me but I have a sneaky feeling that I'm going to catch up and so what drives me is I think I've been built for the fourth quarter of my whole life I alluded to it earlier everything I've been building is for 60 to 70 so do you still want to be working and grinding when you're 60 and 70 of course cuz it's my hobby I don't want to do anything that I don't like I was a d student CU I didn't like it I was smart enough to get B's and C's but I didn't even have that gear in me if you said to me hey can you hey great interview do me a favor could you help me H hang this picture real quick I'd be dead i' I'd ra literally rather give you like lots of money or like do any like I would go on a conference call to all of your employees for 14 hours that I don't have sooner than help you hang that picture so of course I want to do that because I don't think of it as grinding I don't think of it as hustle porn I think of it as doing the thing that brings me the most Joy I would rather be in a business meeting than on a golf course I would rather be in a business meeting than sailing I would rather be in a business meeting than cooking I'd rather be in a business meeting than watching a movie I'd rather be really watching the Jets having dinner with my family love dinners with people love Jam sessions it's so fun to be in Austin this is where I learned to love it South by Southwest on the ground in hotel rooms give me 257 198 13 smart people clever people thinking people thoughtful people and just Jam about it I'll take that over bu working every day the week but there's just not a lot of garage sailing I know that's like a funny like people like a lot of the kids because my Tik Tok videos go a lot of the kids think of me as the garage sale guy because my Tik Tok videos do like I just but even that's business marketing buy sell trade you know I really love it and so of course I want to be doing like I I I mean I you know there you hear these stories I'm sure this has cross your path of the people who retire at 81 and then die at 82 I know why they thought it was what they were supposed to do and it took the life out of them I I have two important things to say about this one I'll do this forever and I really hope to live to at least 100 doing it two I'm incredibly excited of making my last social media post a split screen of this where I just ranted here and now 71 yearold me is making a video and saying today's the day I'm retiring both from running businesses and making content this has been the great joy of my life I love all of you I hope that all the archives of everything I've put out can bring value to all of you but today was the day I woke up and I said I don't like this anymore so you're open to this trajectory not continuing in the way that you see it right now in a way that would make your head spin in equal visceral high energy of like the day I wake up and like this [ __ ] I'm out in the in the same way that I full conviction as I sit here right now that that day will never come we'll get back to talking to Gary in one minute but first I need to tell you about Shopify Shopify Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States including huge Brands like gym shark and all birds and neonic they are the global Commerce platform that helps you sell at every stage of your business look you do not want to learn to code to start your business you don't want to learn how to build a website or how to do inventory management or web hosting or to design stuff you want to get all of out of the way so you can get on with what you're here to do which is to build and sell cool stuff that's what Shopify helps you do and that's why we use them for newtonic they're literally your no excuses business partner you can sell without learning to code or design you just bring your best ideas and Shopify will help you to sell immediately plus shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way right now you can sign up for a $1 per month trial period by going to the link in the show notes below or heading to shopify.com slod wisdom or lowercase that's shopify.com wisdom to grow your business now no matter what stage you're in how will you or do you think about the myth of identity at all the fact that you can so much of you and who you are is wrapped up in being that guy and letting go not for not for me I'm aware not for me I one of the reasons humility is my part is I don't give a about Gary B I'm proud of it but it is not who I think I am it is not my identity what do you take that from that Detachment of it no where do you take who you are from if it's not from the things that you spend you know you you evidently take pride in being successful in grinding in order starting with my mom and dad then my sister then my brother in order probably the top 100 people that have spent the most minutes with me in my life and what they think about me so for people who are wanting to go on a path of success and exposure to the real world is that a prophylactic having a a circle of people that you trust that you have faith have their best faith in you and care about you beyond not just what you do but who you are the reverse the having those 100 people be someone that you want to do the best for mhm mhm right like to me like you become sustainable and unbeatable if your framework is giving not taking and if you do that with those 100 people of course the outcome of them caring about you will happen you've been giving them deposits of love and emotional strength Financial strength whatever you're providing for them and so yeah I think Simplicity is a big game it's really cool how this all worked out for me I could have been born in any era the fact that I'm born in the era where the Merit of attention and business is all based on the internet now no Gatekeepers good for me I'm good with that two the era of Judgment at scale that will disintegrate the most insecure and allow the most confident to shine leave impact Inspire the Next Generation to get to True self-esteem not fake self-esteem and be able to navigate these choppy Waters good for me I read a read interesting uh Twitter thread last week about I I've thought about this for ages I called it the uh uh elderly clout Paradox which is we're often told about the Perils of Fame too young the mcau Culkin of the world the Britney Spears of the world and that if you have never known life as anything other than private jets and screaming fans and Paparazzi it can be disquieting because you don't actually know what life is for most people and if that ever gets taken away from you who are you what's your identity but no one ever talks about the Perils of Fame too old and what does it mean if you're some let's say dusty Canadian psychologist working in the annals of Toronto University and then a BAL MMA commentator plucks you out of obscurity and puts you on one of the biggest world tours that any speaking tour has ever maybe one of the biggest speaking tours in history and sell 20 million 30 million 40 million bucks and now so many people criticizing you and all the rest of the stuff no one talks about that uh because I feel way better for Jordan than I feel for Charlie Jordan Peterson was a grown man and has built foundational abilities to have a relationship right so this is why the only thing that I don't quite know about that M it's difficult to be thrust into the world and never know what it's like to be normal before you've got a sense of who you are as a person I don't disagree I don't disagree that that's something that's tough but what about when you're ripped from your Moorings and you thought you knew who you were you well the good news is for both those people you're fundamentally in control M both Charlie demilio and Jordan Peterson are fully allowed to disappear would they be how would they be able to hide they're going to be noticed every single place that they go the most famous people in the world over time once they stopped feeding them system can disappear Into Obscurity do you know how not relevant Jordan Peterson and Charlie demilo are in 10 years if they never show up again day trading attention yeah the the pace of the news cycle means that if you You're only as good as your next video and if you stop producing you'll become obsolete very quickly 100 it happens all the time yeah do you know how famous TV stars were 15 years ago like Tom celic was the most famous 1980s like you know what my mom fancies Tom celic she was like his I mean yeah like what a stud he's my crush as every I literally half the dudes in the world and every girl did in 1983 but not now like you know no I Tom you know and listen that's a legend it's different and it's like played but like I mean it happens all the time like lonely girl 15 was the most famous person on YouTube in 2006 right like like it happens all the time all Jerome jar I mentioned him earlier Jerome jar was the most famous person on Vine he represented what who take whoever you think is the single hottest young person right now on Tik Tok is he represented that and then he went to Africa and disappeared off the face of the Earth this is the best part of life you are in control you want to [ __ ] about the president either side leave America you want to say that your mom is toxic stop talking to her you want to like like you you your buddies are dragging you down leave your friends you don't you know Europe is not entrepreneurial enough come here like stop crying like I'm not gonna cry for Charlie or Jordan or me or you because I genuinely believe we have the capacity to make change you mentioned earlier on about how um there is a Temptation for creators to try and cash in too quickly that they can continue to put the thumb on the scale I think you said I was saying like extracting attention you know when you have this competitive advantage of like you know that this music video style works and you only made 13 of them not 700 correct I understand that's less cashing in that's more like extracting the most value out of the moment so it's the inverse that I'm talking about so someone has a competitive Advantage at the moment they continue to place their thumb on the scale they continue to rinse and repeat with authenticity and originality and quality and quantity this thing that is going to continue to spin the wheels and get the engine moving how do you know when it is time to cash in because if as you say I am worried for these Tik Tok [ __ ] how do you know how do you know when to get married you make an emotional in your body things start to happen you like can feel subjectively you feel like you're making a subjective decision people I I don't know whether people should be making business decisions with as much emotion as they do for getting married though would you not be more strategic than that like well couple things I think there's a lot of validity in that sentence I I think I'm making a slightly different parallel which is no nobody will know you never actually really know if you made the right decision until the postgame so when should someone cash in where I was trying to go with that and maybe I was going down a bad path or maybe I'm still there I'm going to hold on to it for a second is you need to just kind of make a call like you you know there's been many people that sold too soon and there's many people that sold too late right so that happens all the time Instagram universally people thought Facebook was stupid and they were they thought Instagram pulled one off they were wrong one billion was one of the great m&a steals of all time right on the flip side there's been many companies I me the amount of entrepreneurs that are listening right now that had a $30 million offer on their business they're like you I'm Bezos mother and then a year later have zero happen you know that right you you've you've been around enough already to know unlimited especially that notice what number I used that nice little 153 for the and they're just and they and they're dead inside they're dead inside this goes back to who's going to win the one that could say let I sit here when I tell you it is insane that I did not invest in Uber's Angel round there's no logic behind it he was my best bud I was investing constantly in that era and the Serendipity of me playing Just Enough defense because I just bought my first real apartment in New York it was just a little less liquid than the ideology I had me on an investment that I could have made $500 million on and I love it I love it but for a lot of people that's the death blow that's why most people get the out of this game they can't deal with like the what if what if there only is so when should people cash in I don't know I think they need to make a decision on what feels right and when they go to sell something or when they go to sell it or when they Never monetized Their audience but now they want to sell their first sneaker or wine or book or collectable digital aspect like you just got to go with it when you got to go with it there there's you can feel Crescendo you by the way you might here's a let me give you a let me go actually detailed instead of macro let me go micro here's a good reason to sell something or cash in you're tired you've been going really hard for six years you didn't come for much you're watching your single your your father passed away when you were nine you're watching your mom grind she's 61 you just went over for dinner and she looks tired as and you're like you know what even though I want to keep building more Equity with my audience before I cash in I'm going to go in for a cash in right now because you know what a couple million bucks right now I can get my mom to retire I'm going to buy her little house her sisters live down in the middle of nowhere North Carolina I could buy a house for 200,000 180,000 she'll be happy I could use a vacation actually I'm doing too many things I could use a couple of those bucks to add two teammates to I don't need to edit anymore right there's there's there's that's a for instance what's your perspective on uh continuing to ladder up as you're growing continuing to just do little bits little bits little bits as opposed to waiting until you have a huge amount of latent both work right both can work I look I view this as a value exchange framework if you're bringing value one of the reasons I like selling stuff is I believe in what I sell I have a funny feeling you believe in that drink mhm I don't think you mailed that in no we were involved every single step of the way 12 months of development six months of taste testing when I tell you you know I don't you know how Amazon works until it comes out you don't actually know the price because they keep lowering it B what this whatever the price is it's not $27 worth of thinking like I believe in this more than my life I know that I'm one of the few people the do hundreds but that's not a lot of 8 billion I'm one of the hundreds of people that could have wrote this book cuz I'm that much of a practitioner on every platform there are very few people on Earth that give as much about LinkedIn as they do about Tik Tok and everything in between as I do who also have a 2,000 person $350 million agency that works with all spends billions of dollars in media on social like I got it you know how good I feel like you know how nice it is to sell this if you believe in what you're selling there is no better thing if you don't believe in what you're selling there is no worse thing literally nothing was yeah I mean that nval quote you're doing sales because you sucked at marketing you're doing marketing because you sucked at product yeah and I think authenticity is a word that comes up a lot in the book yeah and I think rightly so people are so concerned in an age of high mistrust of messaging from mainstream media from Independent Media all of the guard rails are off so the Independent Media can talk about whatever they want apparently the guard RS don't even exist for mainstream media anymore now ai deep f autom all of this I think the more that you can signal I am a person of trustworthy verifiable authentic real relatable aspirational and then back up the signal yes yes and here is some proof here is some proof and you know how proof happens correct these kids hate me for pushing patients like it's the Cure but [ __ ] I know all these Alpha A and B winners that I see I see them every day I read all their DMs I watch them I may not remember their name but I can tell you the joke they made Nikki Cass right I know that kid is funny as and he's got fire in his belly and I like I can do [ __ ] like that and I'm telling you right now the number one Kryptonite for all these Supermen and women is patience they want this [ __ ] so fast cuz they're insecure they want to show everybody they already won cuz they play for them not themselves could you imagine if athletes played for the audience can you imagine if athletes cried when they when the home the Knicks get booted I'm so pumped about the Knicks right now finally the Knicks get booed every single game every single basketball team that plays in a major city if they're down 11 nothing and have to call a timeout because they came out shitty Philly New York L they get booed could you imagine if they're like I'm not going back out there I just got booed that's literally like being a content creator when somebody shits on you or you have a bad day and you don't want to post again people don't have Inner Strength because they're insecure that is what I'm obsessed about 80% of my content to find different ways to get people into self-love because it unlocks everything you can't play If You're Not Strong what do you make of the culture of cynicism on the internet that to me seems to be kind of the set point ground zero for the way that people behave online is this cutting sardonic very cynical zero some mentality I think the internet and social media doesn't exist I think they're a mirror of human truth so when I hear you say what do I think about the cynicism of the internet I I take out the word internet and put in society AR people that cynical because they don't seem to behave that same way in the real world that's because it's scarier to do it you might get punched in the face keyboard warriorship is real fun people do it in their own minds they don't say it to your face because they're weak the ciis is happening in the airport right now they're like look at her who does the she think she is dressing that way they just say it in their head the greatest thing that ever happened to the human being is social media it exposed the living out of us and it will allow us over this next decade or two to take one step backwards to reassess to take two steps forward I believe this era of social media will create the great Renaissance Era of having real conversations around insecurity and self-esteem why because I think there's a lot of pressure because I think the conversation you and I are having right now because I think it's in everyone's face because I think people are scared because I think suicide and insecurity and and unhappiness is really feeling it but the silly thing is is there's much more negativity in mainstream media than there is in social media you can't find positivity on mainstream media you can find unlimited come hang with me you can find unlimited positivity and and answers and things that have Merit and trying to figure it out with optimism that is practical so I I I laugh about where we're at right now on the [ __ ] on social I laugh because this is another cliche example of the world not understanding we did this with alcohol in 1930s in this country of America we banned alcohol I love when people are like we need to ban social media I'm like knock yourself out can't wait to see how that works out like people are so naive as if you need to ban the whole internet if you don't want to deal with what we're dealing what do you think happens if we banned all social media Reddit would be a Cess pull even more than it is now forums comments on blog like humans are going to talk now on the internet because you can hide the [ __ ] we used to think in our own heads or only talk to our one friend about or sit in our dinner table and talk about we now talk about out loud that's I've never even thought about that before that's a very interesting Insight that there was no Outlet previously that permitted humans to say the fleeting negative things that came to their mind because the repercussions were too great and the effort of saying them was too high and the platform did not exist mhm so unless you were going to Chisel it into a wall in Ancient Rome or something go yes and so there you have it so friends nothing's changed as a matter of fact I would argue the world is happier than it's been historically overall the Dark Ages were as bad world wars what do you think would be happening on social media if we were in World War II right now like I don't understand how people don't understand this they're like it's never been worse I'm like you know nothing about history if it was World War II right now the do you think would be going on on social media you think you like you think Americans would be like not saying bad things about Japanese people like we put Japanese people in camps in America do you know your history the do you think the the only difference is it exists and by the way it's going to be way crazier in VR and other like people don't get what what country lines matter if we spend 24 hours a day in VR how should people protect themselves uh if so much of our time is spent online and so much of our interactions with other people is mediated through the internet and social media and social media enables people to be the worst versions of themselves or best and best ofs like they mediate through thoughtfulness we have to get smarter discipline that's a um do you know how much of a drug sugar is do you know that my body every time I see a piece of candy loses its mind do you know hard it is to me for fight I was a gap Ink company the other day I'm I'm having a pretty good week with nutrition I'm pretty happy with myself uh and these little you know no you know those Peach gummies the the ring those I had to grab one and I was like you Gary but but I've been able to win most of this week and most you're allow a peach ring let yourself have a peach ring that and that's what I and I'm glad you said that that's where I was going and you're allowed to go on social media do frivolous [ __ ] and look at bikinis or look at sports or even leave a negative comment it's okay but not in sustained format it's not okay to live your life going around the internet saying negative things because all it's doing is exposing that you're a piece of [ __ ] to yourself you're not happy misery loves company you need to get it out do you know how honestly the way I deal with negative comments is empathy and compassion and sympathy they're not in a good place yeah I feel bad I don't feel bad for me I take it in to make sure I'm again I'll say it again I never want to be delusional I never want to get high on my own Supply I never want to buy into me I try that's why I stay away from me I'm Gary Vayner Juck I know what Gary ve is it's me doing content publicly it's it's like me being a comedian on stage or me being like I love it like I love it I it's I'm not playing a character it's still me but it's not my identity and I could stay away from it because I also don't want to buy into it's also going well I don't want to think that I'm better than my favorite feeling is to not think that I'm better than but want to be better than I don't think I'm better than but I strive to be better then you know it's a really cool relationship grap but anyway nonetheless um I'm so pumped about these last three four five minutes I hope people rewind to the beginning of this again this this is going to be a great era everyone has decided this is the worst I just decided that this is the era where this had to be part of the equation there used to be a world without guns without atomic bombs without written word without like without do you know how demonized electricity was when it first was invented it had demons in it literally demonized [ __ ] happens everyone's like oh we used to be awesome I'm like no no we weren't the Holocaust wasn't awesome slavery wasn't awesome like the black plague wasn't awesome World War I and two weren't awesome like Vietnam sucked like like the Civil War was bad you want you think social media is bad you think the Democratic Republican thing is bad now could you imagine if Twitter was popping during the Civil War I mean what the the matter with everybody it's so funny it's like everybody got an F in history that's how everyone's talking right now like as if everyone got an F in hist or people aren good at critically thinking people are not willing to be thoughtful I think a combination of the two one of my smartest friends has a question which is what is currently ignored by the media but will be studied by historians um God that's such a great thing there's so much um I you know I'm trying to think about my knowledge of what the media is paying attention to right now um you know one thing I'm very fascinated by is much of Africa China owns yes yes I'm obsessed with Africa they've basically made liquid they've capitalized so much and I'm obsessed with Africa I think Africa's the next great continent of talent of ideas of impact of culture of pop culture like I know pretty much as I sit here today as a 48-year old man that every day between now and my next 52 years I really like to get to 100 I'll take anything after that I'd be pissed in heaven for or anything less that Africa will every day that goes by the content continent of Africa will be more and more important and so I don't feel like the mainstream media covers enough of like how great of a job China has done in very similar to what America did around the whole world that's what America did from you know 1920 to 2000 really was able to influence and infastructure so many parts of the world the English language like why do we all talk English you know between the UK and the US and so you know I think that's fascinating I think about that um you know I think but I actually I wonder if you asked this question because of what I just said I believe what the media has wrong and what Society has wrong about social media they think it's changed us and I believe that social media has exposed us and I think the only way an alcoholic the only way uh uh an abusive uh uh SP house the only way someone that's really struggling with something dark can actually fix it is the day he or she says I am and then they start the process of fixing it right I am not by the way I did this on a plane at 38 and a half years old in Houston in this great state of Texas my head on the window 30 and a half years old I use a half because I'm 11 years old and I say I'm going to die before a 100 if I don't start taking care of my myself what were you doing I just wasn't exercising or eating well and I could feel it and I said when I'm 40 I'm going to start taking care of myself and by the time that's literally what I said to myself and by the time I landed in New York three hours later I said the my waiting to 40 and I called Mike vcan who was my last trainer that I only showed up three times out of 14 sessions but paid for them all said Mike do you know a young person that can travel with me because I've real I've also figured out what I need I need a babysitter I'm very accountable to others to my family to my employees I'm good but to myself I'm like what up bro you know and so me too and he said what about me and I literally worked out with him this morning 10 years later on he's moved to Minnesota now he doesn't travel with me full-time but he was on my FaceTime this morning in the hotel in Austin and we worked out and it changed my life but I knew it for a decade the first inklings of 38 was 28 but it took me 10 years of subconscious and conscious talk with myself to finally have the Tipping Point moment I believe a lot of people know that I'm right that social media is exposed us not changed us but we're not there yet collectively as 8 billion people but when we get there we will look back in 70 years as social media on top of the internet was a great thing that happened to man it just was super painful for 25 years getting to the next place I I wonder how much of the reticence we have around around not blaming social media for the way that we behave is that without social media we need to accept that fact I love you so much accountability is the most interesting conversation on Earth right now we have become obsessed with fingers Trump sucks Biden sucks America sucks China sucks my mom sucks my dad sucks my spouse sucks my boss sucks everyone sucks but you everyone sucks but you our lack of accountability on the of atrociously bad parenting that was well- intended last 30 to 40 years we over coddled kids we made eighth place trophies we did a bunch of dumb [ __ ] we became friends with our kids not parents that are friendly to our kids we've lost our way it was well- intended I have no judgment as a parent myself it's impossible it is the hardest however it still is true and we have become incredible of course we blame everybody we this we so many of us grew up with parents that fought our fights they ran to the school and yelled at the teacher How concerned are you about the relationship between teenagers and young kids and their use of social media I'm concerned if they have parents that didn't create boundaries and created self-esteem so I'm concerned about the most insecure but I also see it another way that people don't see it the 14-year-old that is getting bullied online was also the 14-year-old that was get bulled bullied at school when I was growing up I saw all of them but they had no Outlet the 14-year-old today that's getting bullied online can move from Tik Tok and delete it and start a twitch stream and hang out with 12 new friends playing a new game and create a beautiful life for themselves I see that all the time the kid that I was bulli that I saw bullied I'm thinking about one kid right now in Ethel hopo Middle School in Asbury New Jersey in 1989 when I think about him and then what he did in North hunon cuz I watched him for those four years he had no Outlet there was no internet he was the most lonely we have decided that this is bad when it's good these kids can find their friends in other places on fortnite do do you know how many kids that I know that are not socially winning in school are winning on fortnite with other kids why are we not focusing on that the reason we're not focusing on that is something atrocious happened world leaders in politics have become incredibly not Noble the the the way that politicians around the world talk to each other is more similar to the way fifth graders talk to each other than grown-ups the lack of Civility in our society by world leaders is extraordinary I mean it's Insanity it's not Statesman like it you know what's so funny it's not even human like thank you my brother Statesman like I can deal with at that just go even look at like 5 minutes ago just go look at George Bush two not even one that's five minutes ago we have completely on both sides of the aisle on the bricks Alliance and the and the US and NATO Alli everyone's a piece of [ __ ] and I say that with respect but I say it because they've earned it they do not speak and America's a cesspool American politicians for the way they talk to each other it's made everyone feel bad it's just angst fear is being pedal on us at scale it's super juvenile you know I'm not to say it's juvenile I'm not to say that the UK is that much better but uh if you're thinking these are the people that are supposed to be the leaders of the country they're the ones that are supposed to be behaving in the of course nobody feels good no and then you know what trickles down then teachers do it then parents do it well it's legitimated by the people that are in charge that's right and even if you know you can say that in the same breath as having the rebellious American Spirit and saying I am not beholden to anybody brother I don't agree with most things that are accepted but there's a way to do it I don't I may not agree with you but I don't think you're a piece of [ __ ] and deserve to die what the [ __ ] matter with people talk to me about the future of pickle ball you know I fell in love with pickle ball here the video back to videoing everything it's pretty cool I did a daily V it's probably six years old it was me and Ryan Harwood playing with Andre agasse and Andy Ro here in Austin Texas uh you know pickle ball Esports padell darts um uh tag there's a World Tag League I'm very fascinated by Sports in this way the first Super Bowl did not sell out the tickets to the game couldn't sell it out the 1982 NBA Finals one of the games was not even a live in America it was on tape delay UFC I watched UFC one with my high school college buddies was like human cage fighting and would never make it another year and was going to be banned and our parents like of course we watched it because our parents didn't want us to watch it I'm fascinated by how Sports emerge and how when I think about pickleball and why I like it tennis didn't exist all the time ping pong didn't exist all the time I don't like the establishment so much and I like consumer Behavior and the truth and what people like so the future pickle ball is brightish it's early it could fall off but slam ball and all this other stuff I know just like UFC in a 30-year window went from non-existent to I just watched UFC 300 and Max's knockout of Justin is one of the five best moments I've ever seen in sports and I'm sad because I love I love them both UFC me because I love all these dudes so much and they bash you you know I don't it's not like wrestling wrestling's fun like I love Macho Man Co Hogan like like UFC with me heavy because literally 93.7% of these guys and gals I adore who they are outside the cage who they are in the cage it was iconic and I'll be honest with you and everyone's going ham on it every moment I'm like man I just have a lot of love for Justin you know what I mean and I know Justin I don't know him I know Justin is such a beast I'm sure he like he know he's I mean he did that to Dustin like but it like it is what it is but um the future of pickle ball I'll go macro on it I have no idea where it plays out I hope it's a huge League because obviously I own a team the New Jersey fives which means a lot to me um if you go to BU Instagram Gary ve you can see my first pinned post you'll see why the number five means so much to me why I name my pickleball team after it 76ers who now I hate because Nicks are playing in the first round fives but um I know in 30 years you and I will be out of dinner and I know there'll be a new sport that none of us see back to Media what it's not covering that has the complete attention of the world yeah is the coolest thing sitting there with basketball and proper football and American football and UFC and I'll be like hey and for some reason my brain will recall this micro moment I like remember you remember it remember and and but I didn't call it it's just it's just history like there's always going to be a new sport every 30 50 years that comes along and and I want you know esport seems very real but there's so many different games like what's it going to be VR will be real VR is a good bet look look it's hard to see a world in 30 years out that VR isn't a big part of our Lives we're starting to see the previews now with apple and meta like and it's going to work like it's just like zooms worked zooms changed the world private Aviation with zoom have created a complete new framework I mean the US government's going to have to figure out tax law because of zoom and private Aviation it's not sustainable states are going to have to compete with each other in a way that is like really intense Civil War like you know Gary ve ladies and gentlemen Gary I appreciate you your energy is very infectious I I really really was looking forward to speaking to you and uh I like the fact that you're positive about the future I also think to kind of summarize what I've learned the only other person that I know that's similar to yourself is Alex hosi and he is someone for whom play and work the same thing and that's the fundamental misunderstanding that people have I think that if they realize that what you do for work is what you do for fun that the work and fun question the life balance question goes out of the window and and life balance questions out the window for everyone because like the concept of bearing your work for 10 20 30 40 50 years is not a good concept I love people like I work N9 to five but I have like great work life balance I'm like you sure don't you hate 40 hours a week hell yeah where should people go they want to pick up the book they want to keep in touch with all the stuff that you're doing at this you know what knock on wood at this point I have a very good feeling that everybody can uh find it if they want to H Gary I appreciate cheers thank you very much for tuning in if you enjoyed that episode with Gary you will love my 3our long conversation with the one and only Alex homoi and it's right here so tap it