Planned Giving for Small Nonprofits: 3 Simple Steps To Start

Welcome back everybody. It's another episode of the nonprofit show. We have a huge show and a huge topic today. Um we are welcoming our guest Tony Martinetti and he's going to be talking to us about the three steps to a oneweek giving plan a planned giving launch. Yeah, you heard that right. And so we want to get into this. Um I am joined today by the amazing Tim San Antonio. He is our co-host and um we are here because we have amazing partners. They include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, your part-time controller, Third Sector Company, and JMT Consulting. Again, I am Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Tim San Antonio has just launched a super super cool thing that's going to revolutionize the way we talk about the nonprofit sector. Um, and you've got to check it out. Tim, where can we learn more about your new board game? >> Uh, generosityspectrum.org. If you want to nerd out, you can go to launch.generosspectctrum.org. But that's that's the place to be for this new peer learning network and the educational gaming system built around it. It it's I got a lot of stuff that I want to ask Tony because I'm viewing it through that lens too, right? So, it's thought about motivation, identity, right? So, nothing like that like plan giving. >> I love it. Well, Tony Martini, you've you've been on the show before. You've got a great podcast, the Tony Martini Nonprofit Radio, but we're here to talk about a new book that's coming out, Planned Giving Accelerated. Talk to us about this, Tony. First, Julia and Tim, thank you very much for hosting. Uh, and I will give a shout out also to Tim's generosity spectrum. I he spent a lot of time with me at the bridge conference showing me the game, the board, the beautiful wood box it's in, the concept of it. So, I I got I got to give a shout out to >> my my my friend Tim for developing the generosity spectrum. >> Julia, the I wrote the book for small and mid-size nonprofits. Um, I I I shout them out in the subtitle of the book. U, it's it's a it's a good lengthy title, but it makes a lot of promises to small and mid-size nonprofits that they can launch planned giving fundraising in three steps and one week. And I wrote it for small and mid-size shops because they are way way off their mindsets are are negative about planned giving fundraising. And I want to I want to shift that to them recognizing how successful they can be with planned giving fundraising. >> I love it. Well, Tim and I were talking in the green room and we were we were chatting with you. Um, of course, Tony, can you start us off by level setting and defining what planned giving is because I think that everybody has a different sense of it. And so, can you just start us with that that that description? >> Yeah, really simple explanation. These are long-term gifts to your nonprofit that come in someone's estate plan or retirement plan. Period. That's the definition. That's my explanation of planned giving. And the simplest example and the one that I focus on in the book and the one that I urge small and mid-size nonprofits to launch with is the very simple gifts in wills, also called charitable bequests. Those two mean the exact same thing. And that's the easiest example of a planned gift. Well, one of the things that I love because you have a dedicated chapter on that and you actually have a nice com throughout the whole book. There's a nice combination of like dispelling myths and also, you know, kind of addressing some really concrete reasons if you need to make a uh a case to your board, for instance, which, you know, sometimes you got to do. They got to give you the resources and the flow. Um, can you name some of the reasons? And we actually flashed kind of one of them related to size for instance on why bequests in particular gifts in will um I have one in particular that I'm going to call out which is number seven Tony but but why don't you you know what are the top ones on why >> absolutely uh as I mentioned they are the most popular planned gift the by far you could expect 75% minimum of of all the planned gifts in your planned giving program because you're going to launch very soon after reading the book. And when you're doing planned giving 20 years from now, minimum 75% of your gifts are going to be simple gifts and wills. And I've seen it as high as 90%. So that's one reason, Tim, they're they're the lowhanging fruit. They're simple for everybody to understand. Everybody knows all all American adults understand three things about wills. what a will is, how wills work, which is very simply, and that they need to have a will. >> So those three things are in your favor. You don't have to spend a lot of marketing time and money educating folks on the nuances of a charitable remainder unit trust with net income makeup provisions, which is a actually does exist. It's a real thing. Uh you don't have to you don't have to deal with that. Um, they're ideal for small donors, folks who make small, modest gifts to your nonprofit, because there's no lifetime cost. There, I just I just conflated two of the 18 reasons. I've got the I've got the Martinetti 18 reasons why. >> Yes. >> Gifts in wills are the place to launch your planned giving, which you're very graciously alluding to. Um, I just put two together that they're they're they're simple for your donors to understand and you don't have to you don't have to train your staff >> and people people can read the book if they want the itemized one, but I'm going to >> number seven. I don't I don't have them memorized by >> I mean look and I'm I'm not folks sometimes I love and have these facts on recall the 75% did stick out in my mind that's kind of how my brain works but I I wrote it down Tony I wrote it down >> what's number seven was my number seven >> they don't have to tell you and and explain this one because this gets into a little bit of the the work that I do and I and and things that I love talking about with Julia on this show, which is about identity and trust, right? It's not about just generosity. Why is a reason that they don't have to tell you they even made the gift a positive thing? >> Because it's a comfort to your donors. >> Yeah. >> Um, look, you're going to give them lots of opportunities to self-identify that they have done this. They can they can check a box. They can pull you aside at an event. Uh, Whether it's a newsletter or a sidebar, you know, or or a print piece or digital, you're going to give folks a lot of opportunities to check the box that says, "I have included you in my will." >> Regardless of all those efforts that you're going to make, there's always going to be, and in the US, the the statistic is uh seven to eight people who won't tell you that they've included you in their will for every one that does tell you. and and yeah, there's so many folks and and there are a lot of reasons why because it's so private, it's so personal, but I think Tim, the one you want to get to is >> they are comforted knowing that they don't have to tell you >> because they might have to change their mind. >> And if they have to change their mind, they don't want to go back on their promise by having told you. You know, we we all understand you can change your will 30 minutes after you've written it. You can you can line it out. You can go back to your attorney. You can go back online and change it. Yeah, >> but but knowing that they can change their mind because they haven't informed you gets to, you know, the the the value for the donors and and keeping the trust with you that you were you just mentioned, Tim, keeping the trust with this nonprofit that they love because they feel if they do tell you then they can't change their mind even though, you know, legally they can, but morally morally they feel they've made a commitment to you and they can't change their mind. So that's another reason a lot of folks are not going to tell you. It's just a comfort to them and it keeps up the trust. >> Yeah. I think that's riveting and that really speaks Tim to the identity of a donor and how they how they feel about that because I think also too people can get torqued off by something that the nonprofit does. Maybe they maybe they do something or change the the direction of their mission and that donor is like, "Whoa, that's not what I signed up for, you know, and uh it's a really an interesting aspect." Okay, so we've kind of given you've given us an idea about what this looks like. Tony, let's talk about your three-step oneweek planned giving launch. Yeah. >> What would we be thinking about? I know and I know we don't have a lot of time but if you could just kind of give us this overview so that we can understand that this is something that as a small to medium-siz nonprofit we can do. >> Yeah, Julia, this is very digestible because it's only three steps and and I I thank you for shouting out the Martinetti three-step oneweek planned giving launch. The first three chapters of the book are the three steps. Now there are more chap it's not just a three chapter book like it's only got 21 pages to the whole book. No, there are more chapters, but the only ones you need to launch planned giving, chapter one is step one, identify your top prospects. Chapter two, step two, start with gifts and wills. Chapter three, step three, cultivate and solicit your top prospects, those folks you just identified in step one. And those are the first three steps. And I promise you, I guarantee you that within a within a week, a week of reading the first three chapters of the book, the first those three steps, you can launch planned giving fundraising. Because Julia, launching planned giving fundraising means you've had your very first conversation with a planned giving donor or prospect. That's it. That's your launch. You don't need a You don't need a campaign. You don't need a press release. You don't need a website. You don't even need a web page. You don't need a mass mailing. You don't need a digital campaign. Just a conversation. That's your launch. You've had your very first conversation with your very first top prospect for planned giving. Celebrate that. Celebrate it. You have launched planned giving fundraising at your smaller mid-size nonprofit. >> I I I because I saw Tony give this talk at the Bridge Conference, too, and so it was just as as as tight as this. Julia, so when you were like, "We got limited time. I know we can fit it in." So it it is something that I I I do want us to live in a little bit more of an uncomfortable question within that, Tony, because I think it gets to the heart of the work that I'm I'm passionate about here, which is like building the confidence for these conversations, >> right? How do you have that first conversation in a way that like like for somebody like you, it's like we're talking about the thing, but somebody who's a maybe a little bit more symbolic in how they're thinking or just kind of a little bit more existential, they might be like, "But we're talking about death and that makes me uncomfortable to bring up." >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was thinking the same, >> how do you how do you address the death question? Basically, >> literally, that was going to be my question. That was gonna be my question. Yes. Great. >> Yeah. So, go go go with that, Tony, because it's it's where the uncomfortableness lives. >> In the book, I have Tony's top six myths of planned giving. >> Yes. >> I've got I've got five of those myths in one chapter. And then the sixth myth is this one. I It's so It's so ugly to me. Distasteful is not even an adequate word. I loathe. I despise this what I call the sixth myth of planned giving which is >> it's a death conversation. No, absolutely not. I I know our our producer Kevin put my face up in the frame when I was objecting when I was objecting so vehemently. I was shaking my head. No. As Julia said the death board. No, I turned that myth on its head. This is a conversation about life. And and Tim, this gets to exactly what you're asking. How do you get into the conversation? >> You have a conversation with folks about the one thing that you know your top prospects for planned giving and you have in common. Now, your top prospects and of course there's a lot of detail in the book. Your top prospects are your most loyal committed donors. These are folks who've been giving to you for 20, 25, maybe even 30 years in some cases. That's not unheard of at all. >> So, they love your work. Now, you also love your work because you're fundraising for it. And that is the one thing that you have in common with with any donor with across all the things that divide us in the country. Whether it's age, geography, politics, race, gender, identity, you have in common with every top planned giving prospect the love of your work. So why is this not a death conversation? Actually, we turn that on its head because it's a conversation about life, the life, longevity, and sustainability of your work, your mission, and your values in your community. >> You're talking to somebody who loves it, who supported it for a long time, otherwise they would not be a top prospect for Play of Giving. And you love it. This is what you have in common. And that's why by no means it's actually the opposite of a death conversation. It's a conversation about life sustainability and longevity of your work in your community. >> So on that note, you actually do something that I think is very practical but also very funny to me which is you list all the eupheanisms for death in the book. So there's a dedicated thing. So instead of using the word death, folks, you could say departed, exhausted, expired, transitioned, entered the pearly gates of heaven, left the scene, kicked the bucket, snapped the twig, moved to the ex floor, snuffed it, cooled it, shuffled off this mortal coil. The only one that I would like to add to help our animal rights friends is crossed the rainbow bridge. >> Okay, I'll add that to my I on my phone. I keep my euphemism list. Now, >> yes. >> Now, you have to say though, I I list those all out >> because I I don't really like the euphemisms of death. >> Yeah. >> I because when you're talking to older folks, which you're most likely to be doing, talking to folks in their 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s even, >> um they're they are not uh they are not afraid of the death, the dword. They're not afraid of death and dying. So, I actually don't like the euphemisms. I don't use them. I don't say passed on and of course we know this is not part of your plan giving conversation because you're not talking about death as we just as we just explained life but but in general exactly we're talking about life but in general I don't like the euphemisms when I'm when I'm giving condolences to someone I say I'm sorry to hear that your mom died. I don't say that she passed or you lost her or she went to the you say went went to the X floor. That's a medical one where where they're in a I learned that one from a doctor. If they're in a 14th, if they're in a 14story building, they say the person went to the 15th floor. >> It's like X is one more than the top floor of the building. So, um, yeah, I I avoid the euphemisms in my own personal life and and in professional life, too. But, but I do have fun listing them out. Thank you for Thank you for that shout out. I know that we're going to kind of keep keep the conversation rolling, but I do there's kind of like a meta way that you've written this book, too, that it's very conversational. like it makes the com the topic a little bit more accessible. Even like like you know when you talk about meal I know we might talk about meal uh the acronym meal for a bit but uh even little like footnotes on like I did standup don't go looking for it but here's the playlist right like that that type of stuff it just makes it where you look at a footnote and you're expecting to see an extremely long like here's Russell James's like citation on that stuff and you have those things but you also use it to say like you shouldn't scared of this topic and from a learning standpoint because that's what I care about now especially is how people digest. I think this is just it's a fun way to write the book too. >> Thank you very much. And and Russell James, thank you for shouting out him because he wrote the forward for the book. >> Yes, he did. >> So the the book is easy, accessible, approachable, humorous. I hope it's humorous. Sounds like you you got the humor about it. It's the humor starts in the lengthy title, so you you can't really miss it. But but Russell James, the the preeminent >> planned giving fundraising researcher at Texas Tech University, wrote the forward for the book. So he's signed on with easy, accessible, and affordable planned giving for small and mid-size nonprofits. >> I love it. Well, let's get into that. Martinelli meal plan. What is that? Because, you know, I'm fascinated to hear how we take this process and what this might look like. >> Uh, thank you, Julia. the Martinetti meal plan. Uh, MEAL is an acronym for meals expertly allow learning because I believe that the shared space of a meal, a a lunch table or a dining well could be breakfast, lunch or dinner table that shared space that puts us in community with the donor or maybe it's a donor couple who we're meeting, right? It might be two two folks and and you alone or it might be one-on-one. Either way, it's a communion community. We're sharing a space that table. And then also the the other value of donor meetings over meals. That's that's why I introduced the Martinetti meal plan because I I recommend donor meals over donor meetings over meals. The other the other advantage besides being in community in that shared space, the regular cadence, the the pace. There's a shout out to your producer Kevin Pace. the the timing, the cadence, the pace of a restaurant meal. Everybody knows what it is. We don't have to explain it. We don't have to say that, oh, now we've got 15 minutes because the entre just dropped at the table. Now we've got only five minutes because we just gave our drink order. Everybody knows the cadence and the pace and you can time your conversations around that shared understanding of cadence and and and timing. So now I I do have to add for folks who are not comfortable with a meal meetings because maybe they they don't well if if if my donor orders alcohol then do I have to have alcohol but I don't drink or I don't want to drink while I'm having this having a business meeting uh who picks up the check you know if I don't want to do these meetings in public if if these things don't don't uh resonate with you then please you do you have your donor and prospect meetings wherever you are comfortable but I do put forward the Martinetti meal I am because look, I'm Italian too. Food is important. Food is We're not sharing the plate. So, I'm not sharing my meal with you, the donor or prospect, but I am sharing the table with you. And and I I think there's an advantage to having these meetings over over meals. So, thank you, Julia, for asking about that. >> So, do you get a big plate of spaghetti though? Because you might get like sauce all over. Like, this happens to me all the time. Like, let's I actually want to talk about the meal for a moment. like like what do we order? What type of place is a good place to go to versus don't bring them to this don't go to Buffalo Wild Wings for your plan giving conversation for instance, >> right? That's sticky, messy finger food. But I I believe there's a footnote that that has a pro tip. If you're in an Italian restaurant, don't get fetuccini, spaghetti, linguini. Don't get the long ones because you're going to curl them up and you're going to get a spot on your shirt. >> Always. >> Get get the rietoni, the pen, the radiator. Get the Get the Get the little Get the little pastas. Don't go for the long ones. The bukatini. That's another mistake. That's the long tubes. The long skinny tubes. Don't get those long skinny ones. Get the little Get the little pastas and then you don't have to worry about splashing on yourself. >> You guys are making me hungry. I totally making >> my lunch sitting over there. >> You got the two Italians. We're going to talk about food. >> I know. >> I'm loving it. You know, I would say Tony um I live in a community. It's the fifth largest city in America, but it's still a small community in many ways. And I'm always uncomfortable about going to public places where I feel like those conversations can be overheard or somebody sees like, oh, Mr. and Mrs. Smith are meeting with the development director from this organization. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. I mean, should should we just look for a place that's a little bit more quiet or how do we resolve that situation? >> Where where do you live, Julia? What's the fifth largest city in the country? >> Phoenix, Arizona. >> Phoenix. Okay. Um, yeah, that's why I hasten to add, you know, if you're not comfortable in a restaurant >> setting, then then don't do it. Then you you you do it the way you are most comfortable. Um, you know, I I know the restaurants that I invite people to. I don't I would never take someone invite someone to a restaurant I haven't been to before because I know what kind of table. I know where to sit. Uh a little quieter space. Um but again, you know, if if you're not comfortable in that setting, then by all means, you go to the donor's home, their office. Look, being in their office, that's lots of cues. You have infinite, not literally, you have figuratively infinite items of conversation around pictures and certificates and items on their desk and on their credenza and all kinds of things you can ask about or you bring them to your site and you can have great donor meetings in in your own office. So, um you know, I I know the places I'm taking people or bringing inviting people to come to uh in advance. So, I I you know, you're you're right. The privacy is a bit of a concern. Well, >> it's interest. It's interesting the pacing. I I never ever ever thought about that until you brought that up, but absolutely there is a I almost want to say a universal cadence >> to what's going to happen and it and it helps you keep on track or know what you have to say. That to me was super powerful because I've been a part of that, but I don't think I ever realized that I was a part of that. Right. And the other advantage, the other advantage to a restaurant is you're not in the donor's office where they might get distracted. Something urgent might come across their desk, all of a sudden your meeting is cut short and the the agenda's well the agenda's ended because the meeting got cut short. Likewise in your office, you know, there could be office distraction. So, um it's a neutral neutral space. Uh that's another advantage. >> Yeah, Tim, I interrupted you. >> Oh, no. It's just I mean I like my roundt discussions obviously right it's like you know leave the pledge take the canoli but uh it's um sorry I had to throw it in there so you know Tony one of the chapters also did talk about this but I'm also you know nerding out a little bit in the later chapters in the book looking at what appears to potentially be a database interface for prospecting right so let's maybe touch on a little bit on prospecting and marketing to these types of folks, right? Like what do you hand them? You know, how do you find them? Basic stuff like that, right? And I know you could touch on this pretty quickly. You did this in bridge as well, but uh you know, touch on that. Where where do you find a plan giving prospect in your database? >> Yeah, you have, thank you for saying it exactly that way, Tim. That's exactly right. Perfect. You have all the data you need. Don't spend money on a wealth screen. Don't spend money on a a planned giving propensity screening. Loyalty. Loyalty. Long-term giving. That's, you know, I lay it out in chapter one, which is step one. Identify your top prospects. I give you the queries for loyalty, for longevity of giving. Look, they may have lapsed for a couple of years in the past, but they came back. As long as they're current donor, >> streak giving. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> As long as they're not currently lapsed. Yeah. If they're not, you know, a 30-year streak, I mean, you might lapse a year or two in there. As long as they're current donors, that's how you find your plan giving prospects. that longevity of giving. And for top prospects, at least one person in your nonprofit has a good relationship with them, takes their calls, responds to the event invitations, comes to the events, answer the emails, replies. So, so that's the person who's going to end up having the cultivation and solicitation meetings ideally with the uh with with that particular top prospect. So, that's easy. You know, you have all the info you need in your database and among your relationships. And I like what Tim asked, what is it that you hand them? Like what what is a a document or brochure as as part of your solicitation package? What should that include when you're meeting with with this type of donor? >> Yeah, Julia, to start these plan giving conversations with your top prospects, you don't need to leave behind that. That that becomes an obstacle. Remember, step one, identify your top prospects. Step two, start with gifts and wills. And step three, o open conversations. Have the cultivation and solicitation uh conversations. We don't need the brochure because that becomes a that becomes a a bit of an obstacle, a burden. Now we got to do the fourcolor brochure. Oh, now we got to get somebody to write the plan giving text or we don't have anybody. Oh, now we got to hire somebody. No, no, that's all sort of antithetical to step the Martini three-step oneweek plan giving launch. Look, if you want a brochure later on, you can you can develop that. You want a plan giving page later on. And again, you don't need a plan giving website. A page will suffice. Um, you know, those are the things that you can do later on in your program. I want you to get into conversations with your top plan giving prospects. And so, you don't need to leave behind this. The conversation is serious enough. You're only talking about gifts and wills because that's the place to focus your launch. You won't need to leave behind. Your donors aren't going to forget these meetings and you're the professional fundraiser. You're going to follow up. >> Right. Well, this has been an amazing conversation that I don't want to leave behind, but our time is almost up. >> Um, this has been fabulous. Tim, I loved that not only did you get to hear Tony um speak about this in person at the Bridges Conference, but that you've read the book and and made notes. It was really cool to have that type of um engagement. Tony Martinetti, Martinetti, Planned Giving Advisors. You can go to plannedgiving accelerated.com. Tony, when does this book come out and where will we be able to find Planned Giving Accelerated? >> It comes out on September 15th. It'll be in Amazon. It'll be in Barnes & Noble. And all the book info is at plannedgiving accelerated.com, including the weight list. So before September 15th, you can join the weight list at that site. >> Love it. It's really cool. I I've really enjoyed this conversation. I think it's super powerful. Um super powerful at this point in time when we know we're going through the great wealth transfer. We're at the midpoint basically. This is an opportunity not to be missed. And I love Tim your comments about being fearful about talking about death and Tony got right on it. No, it's about life. I love that. And if >> yeah I mean if you needed um a conversation about confidence and why we need to be doing this in our sector for me that was the golden point uh because it just immediately switched you know my brain into thinking about what a great opportunity this is for somebody. Um and so Tony thank you for coming back and talking with us. >> Julia thank you very much for hosting me and and Tim thank you for spending time with the book too. Thanks to both of you. My pleasure. >> Yeah, really a lot of fun. Um, you know, we just celebrated our 1,600th episode last Friday and that's because we have these amazing partners. Most of them have been with us from the very beginning and they include Bloomerang, American Nonprofit Academy, Staffing Boutique, your part-time controller, Third Sector Company, and JMT Consulting. These are the folks that allow us to come to you each and every day. As we leave, we leave with this message and it goes like this. To stay well so you can do well. We'll see you again.