Phil Heath Used Less PEDs Than Everyone Thought ; Here Is the Real Story | Mind Pump 2932

Phil, welcome back to the show, man. >> Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. >> Yeah, we have the full crew now. Some fun conversation off. >> I had I had FOMO last time, dude. So, >> I know, man. For sure. [laughter] Adam wasn't here. >> I don't Where was I? I don't remember. It's not often that I wouldn't be here for >> you had to do something. No, you were sick. You were sick. >> Yeah, you were sick, bro. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah, you were really sick. Which for Adam to miss? >> I was going to say that's kind of weird. I must have been really bad. But we had a [ __ ] up. [laughter] >> But we had a great we had a great conversation. And so I was excited to have you back on off air. You mentioned that you did some USO shows. I want to hear about this. How did that start? And tell me a little bit. And then what what would you do there? Would you just Q&A or what was that about? >> So initially uh when I became an IFBB pro um >> you know one of my first two pro shows end up signing with Metrics. They would have me go to military bases in um Hawaii and uh Hickim and Scullfield I would do appearances at. And then I would go so often that I'm like man I just want to like do more of these appearances. This is really cool. So you know I was like what how can I do more? And they're like oh you can apply to be like one of the you know athletes talent guys that would go around the country if not part of the world through the USO. So I just signed up and then next thing you know I'm getting flown around everywhere. And um I've always recognized that our service members deserve you know the world you know because they defend our freedom you know they they die for it. Um, freedom comes at an ultimate price, right? [clears throat] So, it was always my honor and privilege to go do that. I've been to, you know, even bodybuilding shows through USO, like in Okinawa. [clears throat] >> Really? >> Yeah. Went to Okinawa. Watch them compete. I'm like, dang, man. These Okinawans, man, get shredded, dude. [laughter] Like, you know, they living off of seafood all the time, right? So, that was cool. Even went to Gitmo. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I went to Gitmo. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It was myself and uh the most interesting man in the world, you know, Jonathan Goldmith, the Dosekis guy. >> Oh, wow. No way. >> So, he and I did an appearance together. >> Oh, that's cool. >> Random. Yeah. >> Is he really that interesting? >> He was. He [laughter] was so adamant about ripping in to the lieutenant about like the old jail and the new jail and how we like supposedly waterboard everybody and all this stuff. [laughter] And I'm like at lunch like dude like I'm just trying to like get through the day. I got this meet and greet. I'm just trying to keep it cool >> and I just want to see some stuff. But yeah, I was able to go to Gitmo actually. Uh saw the old jail, >> saw like where the minefield is. Like there's like a minefield that still went off at the time. >> Yeah. You're like, "What's that?" And you're like, "Oh, yeah. Um somebody >> might be iguana. I don't know." >> Wow. >> I'm like, "Okay." um got to see there's like a there's like a line where our skipper and Castro would like greet each other with gifts um a gate essentially and then we what the crazy part about that trip was that we went into um uh their boats and then drove over by where people would defect >> and they'd have to do we would have to do catch and release. So the problem that I had was when they would tell me cuz I didn't see this firsthand, thank goodness, is that we would catch them, we would release them back on their beaches and they would execute them just like that. >> Whoa. >> As a point, >> you know, so >> for getting caught, is that like what defecting for defecting? It's like, oh yeah, you want to be over there. Okay, this is what we do to you. >> Wow. So I was able to see that, you know, like hear that those stories, but um you know did a lot of different appearances, got to a chance to even go to some of the awards ceremonies like the USO gala in DC um where I was um basically handing out the awards for each uh branch of military for excellence. So like the best coast guard, best air force, best person for each branch. So that was neat. And then even ended up doing what's it called? The it was a medal of honor ceremony through American American Airlines Air Power Air Power Foundation. It's called Skyball. That's what it was. Skyball. So, I went to Skyball and um I was on stage with uh my good friend uh Chef Robert Irvine >> and he would do all the meals for everyone there. And then Gary Senise um has his Lieutenant Dan band you know play >> and they had us all three of us on stage with all the chefs every you know all these different dignitaries of military and we ended up doing this thing called the grog and the grog is supposed to I I believe it's supposed to simulate the muddy waters of like you know uh was it Vietnam or whatever and they take like a bucket and you're supposed to throw like whatever you want in it. So it can be alcohol, it could be ice cream, it could be hot sauce, it could be everything. They stir it up and everybody has to drink it. >> Oh gosh. [laughter] >> I drink it three times. >> So this is in front of a bunch of, you know, one star, two star, three star generals and stuff and I'm just trying to, you know, bro it up. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> My wife is down there like, "Oh my god, like you're going to get hammered, you know." And >> did you >> I was feeling myself, [laughter] you know, and so Robert is actually um closing the show and uh says, "Hey, you know, I brought my, you know, really good friend, Mr. Olympia, Phil Heath. This uh this event is being publicized all throughout the world on all the different bases." And Phil is going to close the show and hands me the microphone [laughter] >> after you had a bunch of grog or whatever. >> Oh god. Probably had one of the best speeches of my life. >> So loose. Like it was way too loose, but like happy, excited, no ums or like every synapse in my brain was just on point. My wife was like, "You're freaking lucky [laughter] >> cuz I was going to kill you." But yeah, so I've done a lot of those things and um I will do them again. >> I'm assuming there's a lot of lot of lot of questions about training and stuff and stuff like that. >> So my biggest thing is to always like when I get on base, you know, I put my bags down and I go straight to the gym. >> Oh wow. >> Cuz I want to train with the Marines, the Army guys. cuz I usually train with them first and then um go hit up guys from Air Force later, but I remember a few times where I would go into the gym and there'd be a marine like doing bench and I'd just stand right over him. He's like, "Oh my god, let's go." I'm like, "Keep going." >> Yeah, that's spot him and like hang out and do [clears throat] all that stuff cuz you know PT is a big deal. >> Um yeah, and their nutrition of course has to be on point. >> I I imagine there's a lot of bodybuilding fans. >> Oh yeah. Yeah, you know, I would say >> there is primarily because back when I was competing um even at the beginning of my career, you know, working with Flex Magazine, Muscle and Fitness, we would send uh care packages of like um uh magazines and stuff like that. So, I would sign some Yeah. >> and they would ship them out. >> And I always thought that was really cool that um Flex Magazine did that. >> Yeah. >> Because it just gives them, you know, like, "Hey, we see you. >> We see you and we appreciate you." And I imagine too, just especially when you're um on a base overseas, it's like this is the time that I get to go do my thing and I want to lift. And I love the pictures I'll see sometimes of like some of these gyms. >> Yeah. >> And some of the equipment that they actually make. >> Yeah. Little makeshift gyms. >> Yeah, dude. And I'm, you know, and part of me is kind of like that would be a sick workout. Just kind of that basics and just, you know, you're out there and >> Well, you actually know it's 45 lbs. Or maybe don't know it's 45. [laughter] There's no fake weights out there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good time. [laughter] So you're you're you're you've been maintaining your your size and shape like really really well. Are you training a lot or last time I talked to you like well I kind of train which is always to a guy like me like damn [laughter] >> it's been kind of the same to be honest. Yeah, I I I went through spurts, right? So, my whole thing was every time I would go into the gym and be very regimented, right? In my mind, I would think of doing a show. And it's just how I've been wired. I see. >> And I got so upset at that that I thought, I just won't go to the gym anymore. I'll just go a couple days a week just to kind of get away. It was almost like it's tugging me back in a disconnect. Mhm. And you know it it wasn't good. It wasn't healthy, I don't think. So then I would literally have to pray about it and be like, "Okay, like I need the gym to mean something different now." >> So it dawned on me. I was like, "All right, Phil, like you're 46. [snorts] Why don't you just be the most in shape 46 year old you can be? Mhm. >> be the evidence that you could actually compete at a extremely high level, win all these shows, still be able to be mobile, functional, but look and feel healthy and share [snorts] that story. So, that's really where I'm at now is to prove that, you know, a 25-year-old is going to hear me speak and they may listen, they probably won't, but the 35-year-old will because they know that they're closer to 40 than ever before and they want to have that confidence like, hey, >> am I going to be okay? >> You know, am I going to be all right? Well, Phil did, you know, yeah, he had a couple injuries, but like he was also Mr. Olympia seven times. >> So, really, the way I define it now is just I'm in that gym three to four days a week. >> Okay. The eating I'm still like having too much fun with [laughter] this episode is brought to you by a sponsor mp hormones.com. So check this out. You've probably heard about hormone therapy and peptides. They can do amazing things if you need them, but how do you know if you need especially hormone therapy? Well, you get tested. Hormone therapy isn't for everybody, but when it's for you, it is absolutely lifechanging. So, here's what we did. If you go to npor hormones.com, you can book a complimentary 10-minute consultation to find out if it's right for you. Talk with somebody that knows what they're talking about. Ask them questions about hormone replacement therapy. Ask them questions about peptide therapy. And then, if you decide to work with them, you can get yourself a big discount through our partners. So, go to mpormones.com and then use the code mindpump365 and that'll hook you up with a discount on your membership and you'll receive a free blood panel and a gift. Also happening right now, buy any one of our top 10 most popular MAPS workout programs. Get any one of the other MAPS workout programs for free. It's a buy one get one free. It's happening right now. Go to mapsbogo.com. All right, real quick. If you love us like we love you, why not show it by rocking one of our shirts, hats, mugs, or training gear over at mypumpstore.com. I'm talking right now. Hit pause. Head on over to mypumpstore.com. That's [music] it. Enjoy the rest of the show. [snorts] I love my pasta. I love my carbs. And I love sweets, man. So, it's like >> uh but I'm toning that down as well because this summer I'm actually going to do a little prep for myself, you know? >> Talk about how Oh, go ahead. No, I just I'm curious about that that balance for you because I love all those things too. I'm a big sweet eater. Love pastas. Love all that stuff. >> What does that balance uh look like for you? Because I know that's changed for me over years like what I've learned to do cuz I still enjoy that. I still enjoy my ice cream. I still do things like that, but I've also had to in moderation, right? So, how have you how have you changed that? And do you allow that into the diet and then you go, "Okay, >> I still buy it." >> Okay. Okay. So, that's how you have to deal. >> Cuz if I go to the grocery store and buy it or if my wife thinks like, "Oh, I'm going to just surprise him cuz I know he loves ice cream and I know he loves this." I just don't like just don't buy it. >> That's how I am, >> you know? Just because if it's in the house, I can't let it spoil. I can't let it get freezer burnt. Like, I'm [laughter] going to be having at it. And then now that we live uh in North Austin, barbecue is like I have to have it. >> I feel like that would be a sin. I have to have it. Right. So that's like [clears throat] the one thing that I will make sure I have like maybe once every other week. >> What's your favorite spot there? >> Oh, La. Not yet. Like cuz I haven't been to all of them yet. >> I think it was La Barbecue, right? The one with >> Yeah, Law Barbecue was I like that one. I like that one. >> Black. Law Barbecue. >> Black is good, but like I think it might be >> I don't want to say I don't think it's overrated. I just think they go at a certain time. >> I agree. I like my have family that live there and they say blacks all the time. Law Barbecue is our favorite and I don't think that lands on everybody's top five list. I think that's one of the best places. >> I haven't been to Salt Lake. Have you been to Salt Lake? >> I don't think we've been to Salt Lake. Yeah, >> we've been to a lot. >> We got to go back. We haven't been in a while. Yeah. >> Talk about how how uh easy or hard it was probably easy how easy it is to keep to maintain muscle versus how how maybe hard it was to build cuz I'm looking at you three four days a week. I'm kind of whatever. >> Y >> uh but you've kept a lot of your I mean how different how what's your body weight difference now versus when you were >> like pushing it? How what is it? What is the difference? >> 40 lb difference. >> Okay. So, there's a big difference, but you still got so much muscle on your body. >> Yep. >> How is it is it easy to kind of keep? Uh >> I'd say it's easy to keep as long as I'm I mean, look, I can literally, as of right now, I can literally eat twice a day and be fine. And >> that's so wild. >> I'm more on on, you know, fertility protocol because I'm trying to have a kid. So, I can't be running a bunch of tests and all that stuff. So, >> um >> So, you're like TRT, go to the gym two days a week. >> Yep. just a you know a little cipionate and you know all the other stuff that he's got me taking just to >> probably hcg to keep you >> producing. Yeah. >> ACG FSH. That's really it for now. >> Yeah. >> And then uh get bloods done here I think in the next two weeks. >> And figure out that baseline. >> Yeah. >> To say like okay Phil like you're cuz my wife is fertile like she's already ready to rock and roll. I got to make sure I am. >> Yeah. So, I'm curious to see what those numbers will look like and then based off of that, we'll know what to increase or dial back or change up. Um, [clears throat] but yeah, I'm at that point now where if I was to if I was to actually eat four or five times a day, >> that's the big one. That would make a huge difference. >> I would gain probably easily 10 pounds in like a month easily. >> Yeah. >> So, it's weird like how my body wants to It's like my cells are like, "No, no, no, no. We we you're basically I'm a hyperresponder essentially through food, exercise, you know, PDS, you name it. To answer your question, like yes, it was hard to build, you know, when I first started competing. I was natural competing a couple shows and it was just always hard to go from like 175 lbs just to 200 lb in an off season. Um but then, you know, you get enhanced. I was I didn't have like those big jumps like you see like on social media like oh I'm going to gain 20 pounds in one year. I'm like I never really had that. Mine was always like five to seven pounds and then it was just more refine refinement. I won my first Olympia like I want to say like 232 235 and then the heaviest I weighed at the Olympia was like 248. >> So I stayed and I and I stayed >> But you looked uh I mean you look like you added way more muscle than that. >> Yeah, especially in your back. Yeah, more muscle per square inch just due to the fact that I was willing to dive for it, right? Like I think the way I prepared for it with my trainer Holly Rambod is to make sure that your offseason isn't too crazy where you're just, you know, eating everything, but you're actually training very very well. Like I would train very very well. Like when I say well that doesn't mean that I'm lifting the the roof cuz I wasn't that type of lifter but I was always very consistent and very structured. >> You seem you were you were I would say I would classify as a smart lifter where you were going in and being real smart with your lifting whereas some other guys >> go nuts but then they pay for it with >> you know injuries and stuff like that. >> Yeah. I mean we've all seen it right. Yeah. And although you want to, you know, go crazy, um, you have to think, well, I have an opportunity to to have a long, healthy, and prosperous career. So, um, Han and I would talk about it like, oh man, like it would be really cool to like, you know, squat 5, 600 lb and do that and do all this cool stuff. And back then it wasn't social media driven. So, I'm glad I didn't have it back then cuz maybe I would have pushed the envelope. >> The temptation, >> just the temptation of wanting to get something filmed. Um, for me it was just like >> make them think that you could lift that just by how you look >> and how separated I could get, the cartoonish uh muscles that I could carry and just the illusion, right? I'm going against guys that were well over 260 to 300 lb. You know, Ramy was over 300 lb when I competed against him before. So, it's like, >> how do I nullify that? Well, [clears throat] be be more separated and conditioned than the next guy and you'll stand out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Talk a little bit about uh being a hyperresponder because um you hear a lot of guys, they don't realize just how big of a difference there is uh between individuals and how they can respond. Everybody will build muscle. Everybody will respond. >> Mh. >> But it's funny like the first time this really dawned on me because I knew this the the difference, but the first time this really dawned on me, we interviewed Ben Pakowski years ago. >> Yeah. [snorts] And I remember him saying to me, uh, yeah, I'm I'm trying to lose 100 pounds of muscle. I was like, what do you mean trying? >> He's like, well, I can't. I eat once a day. I barely work out and it's just not coming off my body. I could lose [laughter] I could lose muscle just by not missing a few weeks >> and if I eat once a day, it would come off my body very quickly. >> Talk a little bit about that hyper resppon. You mentioned peeds even. I think everybody thinks >> at that level you take the most peeds. That is not the case. >> No, no, it wasn't. And I think it was based on how I started my career. I think what people don't realize is I was already an athlete, you know, prior to bodybuilding, you know, playing division one basketball. >> You look jacked as a basketball player. >> So, I kind of had a base, you know, just with that. And that was just doing like the old school Hershel Walker workouts, like no waste, just body weight stuff. >> Um, growing up in the 80s was great for me, by the way. Like, it was just awesome. Like you, it was always about like how many push-ups, sit-ups, and, you know, pull-ups you could do. Um, but being able to do like my first couple, you know, NPC shows and actually beat guys that were on gear, um, that gave me a lot of confidence to know that like >> the >> if I'm able to go against a guy that's been doing this for 5 [snorts] to 10 years and he's been using and I'm already better than him, that doesn't mean that I should start. And if I do start, how about we just start with just like one compound? >> Yeah, >> just one. And so I would do that and then I would journal it. this is how I looked off. >> Oh, you were pretty meticulous. >> Yeah, because you know I have like an IT background as well. So I'm like everything has to kind of make sense so I can look back and say, "Okay, you were 200 lb, you're taking this many grams of protein, this many grams of carbs, you know, and you decided to hop on something. You did that for 8 weeks. Were you and then also were you still consistent on your eating habits?" Because I think what happens is guys just start taking gear and then they just eat like crap. >> Yeah. because they're think that's going to do all the work. >> Yeah, it'll do all the work and they're young too, so like they don't realize they already have a lot of testosterone. So now they just threw some nitrous on that thing and they they can go lift, but when they come off it's just like snarf, you know, like so I also learned through, you know, people like even Ronnie Coleman, I would ask him questions when I first turned pro. >> Good example cuz he was natural for a long time. >> Yeah. So I asked him, I was like, "Hey, after you [clears throat] win the Olympia, what do you do? Like do you still go to the gym? like, "Do you still like walk me through it?" And he was like, "Yeah, um I basically do the Grand Prix, got some guest posing, but then after that I shut it down." I like what does that mean? You know, he's like, "Well, I'm off everything and he would not go to the gym for like a month." And you were like, "Man, you're Mr. Olympia. You're supposed to go to the gym every day." He's like, "No, I give my body a chance to heal." >> And then I was asked more about the PD stuff. his era. There were guys like him at the time, and people won't even want to believe this, but he was telling me, he was like, "Yeah, I come off for like three months." He's like, "I don't need to be on gear all year round cuz my body needs to, >> you know, those receptors >> can get fried essentially." And, you know, so therefore, I did that. And I think that's why my body was able to go from being a super saiyan to actually just a normal, you know, Saiyan and know how to figure out that base form. And that really helped me with my confidence because you start to see guys that you're competing against on tour like let's say Kai Green for instance. I would see Kai >> around this time of the year 305 lbs shredded going to the Pittsburgh Pro to go guest post. I'm like, geez, man. I'm really just now hopping on like a little bit of something and I'm kind of like flabby a little bit, you know? I'm not hard and I'm only like 250 and I'm, you know, I'm going to have the internet think that I'm going to lose this year's Olympia. But then it was like, are you running his race or you running your own? >> Yeah, >> you're already beating him, >> so just run yours. And that insecurity, although it got heightened at some point, the injections didn't >> because I knew that the plan I had was just to be able to walk away from it with my health and have some real muscle maturity along with it. So yeah, now like I can, you know, kind of eat what I want and I feel like I did build a lot of mature muscle and that was because of the fact that it was a lot of my effort obviously combined with the diet and the recovery. Um, but I also have learned most recently, you know, just you can't throw a bunch of gear when you're like, you know, gut microbiome is jacked, when you have inflammation problems elsewhere, um, >> mitochondria function is, you know, not good, all those things. And I feel like I I did have that by proxy of doing the modalities such as the I was doing red light. I was I owned a Fataris 320 back in 2010. >> Oh, wow. So, I was doing that. I just didn't broadcast it. I was doing acupuncture. I was doing all these things, the red light saunas, you know, the the infrared saunas, you know, plunges. I was doing that way before it became popular. So, that was always my go-to of like you can't just focus on the gear and you can't just slam a bunch of food. You have to train and you have to know how to recover faster. And I would invest more money and time for that and which gave me more quality. I think >> I think people I think this is always a speculation but um because of social media and my algorithm now shows this cuz I'll click on these videos cuz they're so crazy >> and it's these fitness influencers but they're like >> peed influencers. >> Yeah. >> And the recommendations they're making are crazy. Like I'm hearing some crazy stuff. Like I saw one the other day where a guy's like 500 milligrams of testo. You're not going to grow off that. You need at least a gram. You know >> that's crazy. >> Yeah. And I'm like whoa whoa whoa whoa. Like from what I knew from the gym industry, I never, you know, was in the bodybuilding world, but I'm like >> that's a cycle. And you're telling these kids, >> that's a real cycle. >> And you're telling kids that they're not going to grow on that. They take a gram >> of testosterone and then like nothing. >> And what they're talking about like with with Trembolone. No, you need at least 500 milligram. Like oh my god. Like >> I'd be coughing like crazy. [laughter] I'm just being honest. Like I'm just going to keep it real. Like go ahead. I'm sorry. >> Yo, no. I'm just I'm just blown away. I think it's getting crazy. It's not producing better physiques, by the way, cuz you're getting just a bunch of regular Joe's that are taking this crazy stuff. >> That's exactly what's happening. It's It's >> It irritates me. I I'm just going to say it. >> Like, I've been very irritated over the past few years, especially most recently, because these are things that should not be talked about as freely as they should as they are. It's >> dangerous. >> These are these are dangerous compounds. And people say, "Well, Phil, you did it." It's like, "Dude, but I also had a foundation. I also was doing I didn't take growth hormone until my second Arnold Classic." >> Oh, wow. Wow. >> So, I think it comes down to the fact that majority of people that choose to do these PEDs have heavy insecurity issues. >> Oh, no doubt. >> And it pours into, well, I'll just do gear. And we're talking about like 16-year-olds now >> cuz And they'll openly talk to me about it at events. >> So, you got kids coming up to telling you. >> Oh, for sure. Like with their You know what's crazy with their parents? I'm to the point now. Oh, yeah. I was in I was in freaking Idaho this year. No, no, last year. I'm sorry. At a nutrition shop and this kid comes up and his mom is there and she's like, "Yeah, you know, he's really into this bodybuilding stuff." And I was like, "Yeah." Uh I was like, "Oh, okay." And uh so I look at him, I was like, "So what year are you in college?" You know, and he was like, "Oh, I'm 16." I was like, "Oh, man. I would have gave you 20 easily, you know, whatever." Especially with that type of physique. He was like, "Oh yeah, thanks, man. I'm running this this." And I was like, "Whoa." >> In front of his mom. >> In front of his mom. And I'm looking at the mom and she goes, "Yeah, his dad's not around and this and that. What can I do? He's going to do what he wants." And I'm like, "Whoa." So it comes to that as well. So as much as we can kind of [ __ ] and moan about these kids, you know, talking about these compounds on social, which I think is wild cuz back in the day, if you mentioned anything, you were afraid that the DA would be arrested. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Like don't even know. Like we had to like be like like >> oh they're posting videos of themselves using it >> dude [laughter] the guy on the airplane like they can literally take in a syringe and be like yeah this is what I'm doing today. I'm like >> whoa. So >> yeah I think it's just I think it's the devil man. I think that social media oh man it gives us such a skewed view of reality man. Like they're not talking about the side effects. They're not talking about the guy that >> you know I just think it's real drug addiction and I think where they're getting it from. >> Great great point. I think it's I think it's a different type of drug addiction. As you know, you guys know this. You this is mind pump, man. You guys know all this data. How many kids are out there, you know, smoking weed like they used to or drinking? You don't hear about alcoholism with kids anymore. They don't do it. They'll do steroids, though. They'll do PEDs. They'll do SARMs. They'll do all that stuff >> because they're so vanity based off of a freaking algorithm that I believe right here, right now. >> If [snorts] social media was blank for a week, we'd have severe mental illness. And if it was gone for a month for everyone, including myself, >> I would be fine. They wouldn't even go to the gym. >> Yeah. >> If social media was not around, I don't think these kids would care less about going to the gym anymore. They're not real gym goers. They're just And this is not all of them. >> It's just fueling insecurity. >> But it's fueling the insec. Exactly. Like I just And >> I see it. you know, I'm old enough to know some personality disorders. And I'm like, if this guy wasn't doing peeds, he'd probably be drinking. He'd probably be smoking, probably doing other things. So, of course, this is a call to action. All the parents out there, mind, be mindful of what your kids are doing. Where are your kids? Where are your kids? Where are your kids? And search their room. And if you see your kid gaining, you know, mass, you know what I'm saying? And crushing food, >> it's not bad to ask, "Hey, what are you doing?" >> Yeah. And you should be and these parents know, man. But I think sometimes they don't know how to talk to their own kids because they're soft >> and they want their kids to be on YouTube. They really do. You know, like cuz little bit of living vicariously. >> We wanted to be I wanted to be a basketball player. You know, [snorts] a lot of people want to be athletes and stuff. These kids, they don't care about none of that. They want to be on YouTube. That's it. And if they can go ahead and take a drug or if they can get some implants on some boobs or some butt cheeks, they'll go do it. like they'll lit like that's the world I believe. >> No, the algorithm is feeding into it and the more crazy stacks to your point they do the more likes and views and like so it's just it's pushing >> and they think it's funny. >> Yeah. >> Oh man, bro like I'm on trend. Haha. And I'm like >> you do realize like I don't even let me ask you guys a question. Do you even think they have like the you know like >> like back when I first started competing, you know, you had the supplement review guide, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then you had like Anabox 2000. >> You think these guys even have that? No, they're just going on the they're just on social media. Watch Tik Tok. >> People don't realize when when Trenbolone was being used first, it was I think it was Parabolan was the name of it. It was like a French st. It was the pros were using 75 milligrams a week. >> Yep. That it was 76 milligrams or 1.5 ampule cc ampu. >> Yeah. And they use that once a week. >> These kids are like 400 500 milligram. [laughter] I don't know how there's more like >> destruction in the world because >> I was able to get my hands on that once and I literally wanted to like >> I I didn't want to leave the gym >> and that's not me advocating for it. It was just like it made that was the one compound that made me like rage. >> Well, it's the one that's most uh closely connected to uh mental health issues, anxiety, uh sexual dysfunction. like these kids are getting on there saying weird stuff about their sexual function and desires and weird stuff. >> Yeah, I actually came off of it. I remember doing it for like two weeks and I was like, I can't take this. It's just this is something that is too strong that >> I don't trust myself on >> as just a it's like, hey, if you know tequila don't make you a happy person, man, you probably shouldn't drink it, you know? And [clears throat] >> and Dball both were like that for me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. both and I think having a level of discernment is important too like but that comes with age >> I think as well you know >> what what are the big mistakes you're seeing with uh people these days with just their their strength training uh are there is there trends that you're seeing now that need to be reversed or mistakes >> I mean I see the same mistakes as far as like not slowing things down no one really works on the eentric movements as they should um I think it's just like you know lift as heavy as you can as fast as you can make as much noise as you And >> and that probably goes back to what we've been talking about this whole theme of social media. Uh nothing looks sensational if you're slowly contracting something. >> It just doesn't look as cool. >> It's definitely a skill. Uh and I give all the credit to bodybuilders because you have a lot of strength sports, right? You got power lifting, Olympic lifting, you got strongman, [snorts] >> but bodybuilders uh really are the experts at making a weight feel heavy. >> Yep. >> Uh good ones, right? like like rather than lifting heavier, which I think is important when you're a beginner, just get stronger. >> But at some point, uh the risk versus reward isn't very good. You're not going to get more gains from adding 50 lbs to your squat anymore. >> No. >> But you're probably better better off slowing down and making it feel heavier. >> Uh yeah. Or just repping the hell out of it, you know? Like, >> you know, I could uh I could back squat pretty heavy, but I could front squat even better. So, in order to get bigger quads, my my coach was like, Hanie was like, "Phil, we'll do pre-exhaust and then you're going to do five sets of 315 squats for 20 reps." I'm like, "Oh, God. >> Oh, boy." [laughter] >> And you know, I'm living in Denver. >> So, let's go with the altitude. >> Wow. >> And we're doing that twice a week. >> Wow. >> Plus lunges, plus hack squats, plus leg press. And if he really wants to piss me off, he's throwing some vertical leg presses in there as well. So, >> oh, those are gnarly. >> You know, so that's a long day where I wasn't a person that ever like puked during a workout, but I sure as hell passed out many times. Like I I just got to lay down. >> But that volume really helped. I really feel like you start getting to that risk versus reward, you know, aspect. And I train by myself. So, we always designed a workout where I could handle that weight and if I did fail, I'm not going to die. [laughter] >> You know, you know what I mean? >> What was the value of working with a coach? Cuz he's so experienced. >> What What point in your career did you did get you? What What point? >> After I turned pro? >> After you turned pro? >> Yeah, I turned. >> So, before Olympia? >> No, no, no. Before like So, after I after I won my pro card? Yeah, >> that was when I was searching for a coach. >> Okay. >> I was kind of looking for a coach uh when I was doing the NPC Junior Nationals. >> Yeah. But that was only because I was told that I needed one. Yeah. >> Cuz I was already getting um calls from Steve Blackman over at Muscular Development and the late Peter McGuff over at Flex. So they had like this bidding war to try to get me to be exclusive athlete. So >> Peter McGuff was like, I want you to work with Chris Aceto. I like Chris Aceto. He's and he was obviously a contributor to the magazine as well. And he was working with Jay. So you know Jay was their guy. >> Yep. And then uh Steve Bleman was like, "Well, I have Chad Nichols and he works with freaking Ronnie Coleman and he and he's worked with Flex Wheeler. He's worked with these guys. [snorts] So I end up hitting up Chad um the week of the Junior Nationals in '05 and he probably just didn't recognize the number and didn't call, you know, call me back. >> So then after I got my pro card a month later, I ran into Hanie uh then in August at the uh the IPB North Americans. >> Okay. And then I met him and I was like, I I recognize you from the magazine and MD. You have a column and this and that. So then I watched him I basically job shadowed him when he was training uh Charles Ray Arti and Bill Wilmore for the NPC nationals that same year. And based off of his interaction with his clients and also the client's girlfriends and family, I was like, "Okay, I I think I can um give him autonomy over this physique because >> I like the way he coaches his clients, >> but I also like how he handles the the people around him as well, like asking them questions like how has his training been? What has he gone to the bathroom? Like is he stressed? Is he this? Is he that?" He's very meticulous on all these different things. And um it but for us it had to start off at kind of like a friendship um I had to know that if we're going to be on the phone for like 30 minutes to to an hour, I got to I got to know that I like actually being around you, you know, cuz I don't want to just be with someone that is very rigid and, you know, very rude and that I didn't vibe with, but we vibed on various other things. So I would fly out here to go meet up with him. And one day he was like, "All right, man. We're both talking on the phone way too much, man. and we're going to work together or not. So, we're like, "All right, let's do it." So, we did the 2006 Shawn Ray Prom and that's where we really got down and dirty and did our first approach. >> Now, he's local. So, when you would fly in, where would you guys train at? >> Over at uh the Golds in Campbell. >> Oh, Campell. >> Really? >> So, we train that. What was the value of uh working with a coach? What did What did that help you just get like, "Okay, I'm going to give this to someone else and just >> Yeah. Ronnie was the one that told me I needed a coach." Really? really told me that. I mean, everybody else did, like I told you about Steve Blackman and Peter McGuff, but like I felt like that was more agenda based based on working. >> Of course, they want you to get a coach, >> right? Um, but [clears throat] with Ronnie, I was like, "Well, who do you think?" And he said, "Well, Hanie's really good." >> And it was funny cuz I was like, "All right, that makes sense." So, the value of it was Ronnie said, "You need a second set of eyes. You really," he was like, "You don't need to be stressed about all this stuff getting ready for a show the last week. um it gets really gnarly and you just need someone with a good eye and really good communication skills. >> I was like that makes sense because that's what a coach really has to do. And >> Mhm. >> Um but as far as the value, oh man, I mean he he was able to push me um without being in the room, if that makes sense. We did everything pretty much remote. >> Um we probably trained together like handful of times throughout each year. any things you changed because of his coaching like with your training or technique? >> Um, just knowing like when when to push a little bit further past my limit and when to kind of like back off, especially cardio >> because I can get on cardio like nobody's business. >> Well, you were a basketball player, so >> yeah, so it was nothing. >> But >> did you have a tendency to overdo cardio before? >> I would want to, but then I realized like he would pull the reins back on that and be like, you don't need all that or you need to do more. um his whole thing was like, "Let's see how further we can push my physique without a ton of carbohydrates." >> So, I hated that. I ain't going to lie. Like, that was something that was extremely difficult. You know, I remember doing my first show as a pro and I was doing like for eight weeks no more than 125, 130 grams of carbs. >> Wow. >> Like no cheat meals, no nothing. >> And like all white fish. >> Like all white fish. >> Brutal. It was brutal, but I came out shredded, so I didn't, you know, so in your mind you're like, I don't care. >> Yeah. >> Um, but the coaching aspect, I'd say as we got closer to like when I was training for the Olympia, >> um, handling the noise and knowing like um I needed him, you know, there to kind of give me >> an understanding cuz he would sit [clears throat] like third row or fourth row and he would um text me backstage cuz they wouldn't let him backstage. Um, I don't even know why. Personally, I believe that they probably thought it was an unfair advantage because they knew I was coming >> cuz they let Neil Hill, they let all these other guys back there with their clients, but they always made Hanie like, you know, have >> Mhm. >> Wow. >> Oh, interesting. You have a uh what's the most memorable Olympia for you? Hm. You know, you would think it would be the first one and I think as I've done more interviews, yeah, the first one, but man, like the third one and the seventh one were like, >> well, it's cuz you got pushed in those ones. >> The third one was because of the fact that everything was clicking. That was the heaviest I ever on Olympia stage and I did one call out in that Friday night. >> Were you battling Jay or Kai at that time? >> Kai at that time. Kai at time. Okay. >> Yeah. So I did the I did literally one call out after I had my individuals which was insane because they called me back out to do the last call out and and then Steve Arber was like Phil Heath back in line >> and I was like that's respect right there like I just you know gave someone the the Tyson uppercut man. You [laughter] know what I'm saying? Knocked him out. >> Not even close. >> It's not even close. I mean it hasn't been done since. Right. I think it was only done one other time. >> I didn't realize that. Oh wow. >> Yeah. I think the last time that happened was I was told I think it was Jay Emanuel that told me it was like Lee Haney had done that one year. I think it was like an 88 or something like that. So, it's not something that judges are going to do, especially in a two-day show. >> Yeah. >> A two-day show. Like, okay, you go there for two days, you see you see me up there with everybody else and I only do one full call out. That means, you know, I whooped. >> It's not even Yeah. It's not even close. >> That's They're fighting for second. >> It's like he can go eat a cheeseburger tonight. >> I also think it was because of the fact that why are we we've seen enough. If anything, we're just gonna pose him to death to see something worse. >> Wow. >> This is the best that we've seen in a very long time. We're going to give him the respect, give him his flowers. It's game over. Next 2017, I'd say close second. Um, the intention behind it was the fact that uh I needed to really Oh, man. 2017 man is like the seven Mr. Olympia you have the opportunity to tie Schwarzenegger man. >> Yeah. >> And I saw Arnold at that at his Arnold Classic and I asked him to I was like hey can you come over here for a second after we're taking pictures and cuz he came by my booth and I was like it would be an honor to be tied with you. That's just the short version. And he just looked at me and kind of gave me like the the dad nod >> and he hugged me and I was like okay. I was like, "You got to make this happen now." Because, you know, no one's getting the nod. And when you get the nod from the person that you highly respect, you have to do the work. So, I went through absolute madness in the gym to get ready for that one. So, that's I mean, that's what I ended with, right? Seven. So, and that number was just so special. So, yeah, that one was probably the most memorable. And it didn't hurt the fact that The Rock was there announcing it. >> Oh, that's right. you know, so that was pretty cool, too. >> That's right. What what what did you do because there was uh I mean your body progressed uh throughout the years, but your back made this huge like transformation. It was not a bad body part then became one of the best. >> What was the difference in your training uh or what did you do that really that made the difference with your back training? >> I think um cuz you just brought like another level of like thickness is what it >> I think it was more of like the barbell rows. um not dumbbell rows, but more barbell like overhand and underhand barbell rows. That was really a strong point for me, especially the underhand ones, cuz I felt like I could pull my elbows back so much deeper, >> like the Yates row, basically. >> Yeah. >> And um anything was good for him, it was definitely good for me, right? So, um and then just the volume. I was doing so much volume for back. I was training back and legs twice a week for those shows cuz I knew that those were areas that if I could get them up >> Mhm. >> I would be a force to be reckoned with. Um but a lot of rowing movements. Uh initially when I got into bodybuilding, it was always like, "Oh, Phil's narrow. I'm too narrow." So you're going So I was thinking, well, all right, I'll do width just from pull-ups and pull downs and all that stuff. And I got some width off of that. But then I was like, if I can get round like how I do in the chest and the arms and shoulders, I'll get round if I get round here. >> Yeah. >> Oh man, it's going to be really nutty. So, um, >> did anybody coach you to really throw those rows in? Was it another competitor or was it just you saying, "Okay, I know these are good for >> I would probably say I mean watching those, you know, Blood and Gus Dorian Gay videos and then watching Ronnie the Unbelievable video like that. >> I can't watch those and work out cuz I'll hurt myself." There you go. [laughter] Yeah, right. >> Yeah, buddy. >> You start going crazy. But yeah, I'd say those videos and then the old school Murro Kabi videos of Battle for the Olympia. Oh, yeah. >> You know, watching Jay at, you know, Gold Flamingo and, you know, doing back and stuff saying he's going to chase Ronnie to go beat him. >> You know, it was always back. >> Y >> and that was the era, right? If you didn't have a back, you weren't going to win the Olympia. So, I just thought, well, then back it is. >> The other one would be you were known for your delts as well. Um, was that always a focus because of the narrow criticism or whatever? >> 100%. Because >> you got to create an illusion. So, if you can cap your shoulders, >> yeah, >> you're just going to and you're going to look great in a quarter turns because a lot of people don't realize like when you train arms non-stop and you have these big biceps and then your triceps stick out, your rear delts are tiny. >> Yeah. >> And it hurts your most muscular. >> It really hurts. Like when you do a crab and you don't have that, it's it's not going to look right. So like you look at Kevin Levrone like >> I was just gonna I was just going to say your your delts remind me of his like like and his are just some of the best. >> It's just phenomenal dude. So I always looked at his videos and his magazines. >> So delt training was you know I say like 2010 was the year that like I started really noticing a change. And that was also because of the fact that I stopped training arms once a week. I would train them every other week >> because they were just too >> it would just throw off the symmetry. It's just throw off the balance. And we Honey and I talked about it. He had to coers me big time to who doesn't want to train arms. >> I was just going to say, how did you convince yourself? Uh >> do you want to win or not? >> Yeah. >> Do you trust your coach or not? And if I say yes, then that means be coachable. And if the results aren't what you want, then I can always fire him. I mean, that's just the honest to god truth, right? >> But it worked. and the quality that I had like 2010 Arnold I think is one of my best physiques as well like that was nasty but it it was like I was so full and it was in the delts and the upper chest that really made that difference. Um >> what about the training? What were the did you do any specific extras? You said rear delts. I think a lot of people don't realize how big of a role the rear delt plays in the roundness. >> You got to do that reverse pec deck. You got to do the face pulls. You got to do the dumbbells. You know, you got to do everything. [snorts] I would do them like even on back day too >> just add a little extra. >> Yeah, why not? You can keep them full or you know just keep them activated, >> you know. Um behind the neck presses was something that I like to do as well. >> So that's rad because those that controversial that was the way bodybuilders shoulder press in the '90s. Everybody did behind the neck. >> Yep. >> Then it was like these are dangerous, they're not good for you type of deal. >> Yeah. you're doing like three plates. I mean, technique is bad. You know, the mobility >> for talk about talk about why you like them because I when I do them, they feel totally different than a traditional >> I liked them because they were difficult because I knew I couldn't, you know, throw up more than a plate at first. >> Mhm. >> You know, doing them from the front, you can throw two plates on there and, you know, Yeah, it's heavy, >> but you can get through it. Try doing that from the rear. Like, like you said, mobility, you realize there's a hole, there's a real gap here of strength. >> So, if I could If I can get stronger back there, then how my physique is going to look better. So, doing those and also standing military presses. I was doing those a lot, too. >> That's so great. Okay, so this is also great to hear because uh uh especially with bodybuilding or when people talk about just hypertrophy training. >> Oh, it's the same thing. Standing, seated, it's not the same thing. It doesn't feel the same. There's way more stability involved. >> I've always gotten better results from standing. I did with my clients cuz my clients weren't bodybuilders. They were just everyday people and it was more functional. >> Yes. Uh, but why would you, a pro bodybuilder, choose to do them standing? What did you notice from doing >> Well, we did we did those when I played basketball in college, you know, just push presses. Yeah. Just because you got ready for like clean and jerk, you know, >> but then um I saw Jay Cutler do it >> and I trained with him one time. We were in Hawaii actually. >> We're guest posing at Mr. Okab's uh Hawaii Islands uh competition. I think Shawn Ray runs that now. Um, and he was like, "Let's go to the gym." And he's just loading up the plates, man. He's got two plates on here. Just ra I was like, "Dude, let me try that." [laughter] And then you realize like you're just not as strong as you think. >> Yeah. >> But I thought, "Oh, core stability is going to be a big deal here. >> My mid- thoracic spine is aching from doing this. Low back is aching. Legs are twitching. Like, >> that means I don't there's a hole in this physique. So, how about I just start with a plate? Let's start with hell, like let's just start with 225s on each side and just really get the motion going. This is what I'm supposed to feel. Okay, throw a plate on and then just master that. That was something I feel like I did better than most people, even people that don't compete, is that I knew that I have to start somewhere and I need to master the smallest weight before I go up to the bigger weight. >> Do you think your experience as an athlete played a role in that? because you're you're talking like um >> Sounds like it. >> Yeah, cuz um strength training is a skill. Exercises are all skills. They're all techniques. >> Um and athletes get that. You know, when you play basketball, it's not about uh just going as hard as you can. >> You got to practice it. >> It's about like you got to perfect the skill, >> right? >> Do you think that played a role in how you approach your workouts where you're like, "Okay, this is a skill. It's not just hit my delts." It's also Do you think that played a role in that? I think so because inherently like what do you do when you're shooting hoops? Like you start like 2 feet away from the basket, >> take a step back, do the same thing. >> I mean that's how I learned how to shoot, >> you know. >> And you also have to visualize it, you know. I used to visualize the basket the the ball going through the basket. So you sit under stand underneath it and you have your friend just shoot it or you just shoot it, you know, you just go like that and watch it go through through through and then that now you know what that sounds like. you know what it's supposed to look like and then you start making it happen. For me, it was like, okay, I should have the fundamentals with shooting a basketball with one hand and then take a step back. Take a step back. Now you're shooting threes with one hand with no problem. Now this is just guide hand. So yeah, you're starting to get those reps and then you realize like, okay, if I'm doing alternating dumbbell curls, why don't I just stay on one side and make sure that I get all these done correctly? Because when I start doing this, I start leaning and I start doing this. Why am I doing this? Why can't I just stand like this? And then as it gets heavier, maybe I throw a little bit of English toward the end. >> But um and then just checking your insecurity, man. Like I've done videos where I'm like curling 35s and stuff and people are like, "Oh man, I could do that." And I'm like, "Yeah, but you don't look like me." >> Yeah. >> And they're like, "Oh, well, I'm not on gear." And I'm like, "Okay, I was in high school looking better than you. What are you talking about?" >> You know, "Oh, we just got genetics." Like, "No, dude. I'm willing to really focus on supernating the wrist, squeezing at the peak contraction and being able to hold it. That's real strength. And then also um doing photo shoots early in my career back when photo shoots were a thing. You would have to Chris Lond, >> he would make us I mean hold those dumbbells, those barbells for like seconds. It felt like minutes, but they're like, you know, you had to hold that peak contraction. This is the money shot. this is the best shot in the world. [laughter] You still cover right here and you're like, "No." He's like, "Yes, he has the teeth." Yeah. You know, [laughter] >> and then I remember him telling me right before I turned pro, he says, "Um, if you train like that every so often, you're going to get really strong." I was like, "What?" He's like, "Holding the dumbbell pre-contractions just like what you did." >> Mhm. >> So then I started throwing that into my routines and like when I'm doing presses and just knowing talk about mind muscle connection. How you gonna have my muscle connection when you go in super fast? Like just it's not going to happen. So, I just again training by myself, uh, knowing myself, not being afraid to go up a little bit and not being concerned with what everybody else is doing. I still go through that. Like, I'll go to the gym tomorrow and I'll see somebody training and I'm like, man, I want to lift I want to lift that 400 lb bench. I'm like, that but you you can't, dude. Like, that's not you. That's just not you. But you're at 315 or you're right at 275. >> How can you make that work for you? How does that feel for you? Oh, that feels really good. Do you feel it in your shoulders? Do you feel it in any other places? No. Then how's your pump? Pump's way better than him. Well, then why are you tripping then? Why are you focusing on their race? Run yours. >> Yeah, I think that's so important. Uh it's it's important for people to understand because it also reduces risk of injury. >> And again, you're treating the exercises like their skills, not just uh a way to, you know, make my quad sore or whatever. >> Yeah. I I mean, yeah, you don't want to be on gym fails. That's for sure. [laughter] You don't want to be on that. And And look, I've I've luckily I've only had like a couple times where I've had like a twinge, you know, about benching or something like that where I'm like, "Oh man, like that could be like a partial tear >> or um but for me it was always like trying to train too hard or too heavy or so much volume toward the end of a prep because I'm probably a little too lean to be going that hard." >> Yeah. That's when the risk is high cuz that's where I noticed like okay >> you're taking a vaso constrictor with a vaso dilator and you're lean and you're pushing all this blood into this area. You don't think you're ever going to cramp up. You don't think that you're tearing anything, dude. Like yeah, something's going to happen one day. >> Yeah. Speaking of prep, uh now that GLPS are so widely available, how uh prevalent are they in pre-contest prep? Are bodybuilders using them like crazy? I've heard everyone's doing I mean when I say everyone I mean probably over 90% of people I've heard a lot of guys talk about it. [snorts] Um I mean I have my opinions about it. I just think that >> Well, does it feel to you cuz to me when I look at bodybuilding before GLP's discipline's crazy, >> right? But the diet discipline is the craziest. Like like like you know 12 weeks of diet >> and what you hear the that these guys are eating and the the just the discipline around it's insane. >> Yep. >> To me it's almost like I mean cheating is the wrong word but it's like >> kind of you earn it. >> I mean I I I kind of feel what you're saying though. Like >> it's like they'll suffer. I guess you're not really suffering. >> Yes. I don't think they're willing to suffer. And I think the the physiques are I think you're seeing more athletes now that can't peak for more than one event. Oh, >> because of it. >> Say it's work ethic. I also think it's because of what they're taking. >> Interesting. >> Um, why are we not seeing people peak? >> I was going to ask you, you're a pro bodybuilder and you for real. Like we're talking about open guys cuz the classic guys I think are doing really good job. >> Yeah. >> You know, men physique I think they're doing a really good job. >> Pro bodybuilders carry open class guys carry more muscle, right? But why are they off? [snorts] Like there's no freaking reason. God's green earth like why you should be like I'm talking about like way off. We're talking about like over 10%. >> Wow. >> Like that's a lack of dedication and discipline and oh it's not like if someone says well it's not my lack of discipline. It's like well then what's your where's your discipline with how you end up saying I'm going to take this drug then that you really don't need. >> So when it comes to GOPs I don't think anyone should do them because so they're supposed to what? slow things down, right? Like, >> yeah, >> gastric emptying or whatever. >> But aren't you trying to eat over 3500 calories a day? >> You go on GOPS, man. You ain't going to >> I've been on GOP. You know, >> I don't want to eat no 3500 calories. The food noise is like, uh-uh. Like, I don't want to eat anything. If anything, I want to throw up. Like, you know, so I don't see. >> So, that's the thing. It's like, so I'm going to do a GOP1, but I'm going to take GHRP6. That's gonna That's a weird stupid, but I've heard these things. I'm like, you're you're trying to over complicate a simple solution, which is >> simply do your cardio, [snorts] >> go do your diet, don't throw and don't think that you're running home and you can throw a Casey Masterpiece on your freaking chicken [laughter] and and you know, you can't throw barbecue sauce on your chicken and you just because you're on insulin and all other stuff. You know what I'm saying? You hear these stories, right? Like everybody thinks they're Coleman or someone like that. [laughter] You know, I had a friend that did that once. I go to his house and I see him meal prep and I was like, "Dude, like how much barbecue sauce you put on this? You're in offseason, right?" He's like, "No, man. I'm pre-contest." I was like, "Oh, that's tasty though." I was like, "How [laughter] are you how are you really dieting if that's what you're doing?" Well, in my my opinion, cuz I know people will point to peed use, but with peeds, you still have to work out. >> Okay. >> You got to you still got to lift and you got to make it work. >> Yeah. But there's like synthol, which is cheating. That's just putting oil in your muscle. And we got a lot of that or at least a derivative deriv derivative of that, right? >> And I almost feel like GLP is in the same category. It's like I'm going to pre-contest, >> but I'm going to crush my appetite with as a bodybuilder, right? I get the use for people who are obese. So, but I'm a bodybuilder. I got 12 weeks out. I'm just going to use this >> reaire. You're skipping one of the two main things that make it make it a sport. Exactly. Right. Like the sport of bodybuilding is the lifting portion of it and the diet. Those are the two parts that make >> struggles to get Adam. How do you do it when all your friends are doing it, >> you know? >> But hey, this guy's over there. >> But like you said, I think it's showing up on stage. I think it's that the person who's willing to take those shortcuts, not do those things, it's probably showing up in other other factors. >> I think so, too. I think that's why we're seeing no one with diet face anymore. >> No one's sucked in. [laughter] >> Like, no one sucked in in the face. Like, >> you got guys winning shows that still got fat faces. It's because they're freaking inflamed. Why are they inflamed? >> [clears throat] >> probably it ain't from the inflammatory foods because they because we see them all eat on YouTube, right? >> It's probably from the compounds, whether it's too much of the PED side or the anabolics or it could be other things. You throw a bunch of peptides at it. This is still stuff that I get it, it works, but I think majority of that stuff should be used more offseason or left out during contest prep because unless if you have a real injury, I don't really think you know or we have enough data to say like oh this can cause water retention. This like I know that taking growth hormone during prep like at some point in time you got to cut that out because you are going to hold water. >> Yeah. It's also I I remember we had Dr. seeds on a couple times and he's like one of the leading uh doctors and researchers and I think I know bodybuilder mentality and I respect it. Uh they're the kamicazis. They figure this stuff out and they risk their their lives >> and I get it but the mentality with bodybuilding is if some is good more is better. >> And I remember Dr. Seed saying that that's not how you want to do with peptides. He's like you're not trying to throw 15 peptides at yourself because uh the way they interact with the body uh they're not going to work so well together. We're going to focus on this do that for a while. Maybe it's mitochondrial health, then we'll pull that out, then we're going to work on this. Or maybe we'll work on this part of mitochondrial health, then we pull that out, then we work on this other part of mitochondrial health, rather than throwing everything in your kitchen sink at yourself. >> I think that's the problem. Like you said, I mean, they're just willing to because they have access to it as well. >> You you I mean, look, like we used to talk about the guys that used to travel over to Kuwait to go to oxygen gym and stuff like that because they had the best equipment. >> Is that still happening? Is that still a big thing? >> I don't know. >> It was like a big thing for a while. They come back. Yeah. >> I so I when I >> Who was it that told us? They said, "Well, the difference is they just go there and that's just eat, sleep, and train." >> Just Yeah. >> Well, there was that part. I mean, yeah, I'm not throwing shade at that part, but they had a lot of things more readily available. >> They had like a straight pharmacy for all of them when it got [laughter] >> Yeah. Like like, oh, if there was a drought in the States, they ain't got no drought of that, you know? They they had that on, you know, really available. But I agree. I think it just ju should just come down to how dedicated can you be with your diet and training. >> Um reduce inflammation at all cost. >> Yeah. And a lot of those compounds you like you said you take more side effects come and no one really has the data to say like oh yeah you should take like 10 different uh PDs and you know like you know anabolics and you should do 10 freaking different peptides is I would probably now that I'm thinking about it because I try to gify this for myself. I'm like if you were to you know do that I'm like well I probably want to make sure that I'm I have zero issues with my gut microbiome. So, I'm thinking of like, you know, maybe like some KPVs, PPC, stuff like that. >> Especially in the offseason when you're eating a lot of food. >> Yeah. And like mitochondria health. Yeah. >> Cuz without that, your system's wrecked already and then you're just throwing a bunch of stuff at it. It doesn't make sense. Um I I think that maybe, you know, IGF, you know, IGF-1, I think that's pretty good. But I just think still it comes down to the the grittiness of just training and just really getting after it and making sure that you know how to use food as your as your ally >> to go get how you want to look and it and you have to be building hard grainy muscle at some point. Like if you've been in this game for 10 plus years and you don't have any type of striations even in your offseason, there's a problem. >> There's an issue. Like I know genetically there's probably some data that says that yeah, you can train as hard as you want, but you might not have strided glutes or or let's just say strided quads or something like that better than the next guy, but I still think you should have something like there should be a body part, especially like the delts and the chest and the arms. Like you should have and and I don't see that as much in the open division. >> I do see it in like lower divisions as far as like weight is concerned because they're not above like you know 240 250 >> and that's usually because maybe they are injecting some oil or whatever. I don't know. >> Yeah. I think it's just taking too much stuff. I just like you said, I think that their body's inflamed. They're just taking so much stuff to just be there. >> Probably leading into the show, too, cuz I've asked guys like, "Hey, so when do you start peeling this back?" And they kind of look at you like, "What?" >> Peel [laughter] back. >> There's a peel back. >> Cuz like at some point, you have to think like that's oil. Like it's still oil, right? With benzo, alcohol, whatever. >> It's anabolic compound. It needs to get through that. It needs to get through your system. And that at least that's what I did. Yeah, >> because I because I was a big stickler on skin texture >> and being light-kinned and all that stuff like you want to like I have an advantage so to speak, but I want to make sure that I'm dying away all the fat and really all I have left is just water and I'll just peel it back just enough. But it's because of the fact that I might mine have overded just a little bit during prep so that we can do the carb up more flawlessly without having to rely on blood pressure meds because I think through the diuretic usage on top of all that that's where really people you know crap the bed >> because they're they're thinking like all right well I'll just take I'll just you know cut the water and I'll just take more pills and I'm like >> and then you're wondering why you're flat you know [laughter] like you're taking blood pressure meds, dude. Like your blood pressure is down here and you're trying to have it up here so you can get a pump. It's not going to work like that. So, again, you can't be throwing all this stuff [laughter] into this machine and expect it to be perfect. >> Yeah, I've heard some horror stories, some pre-contest horror stories, or you know, Dave, you did you ever have any leading up to your show? You're like, man, I ain't feeling good. This is not >> The only time I had an issue was in '09 when I had food poisoning. That was it. >> I had food poisoning the after meet the Olympians. I wasn't feeling right and I had noticed like I was tracking my weight leading up to the show and I was like man you're like losing like five pounds every other day and like what's going on and I think I caught like a stomach bug and then that Thursday night after meeting the Olympians I was puking for like hours dude and I had the EMTs coming in my room >> like early early Friday morning they didn't leave until like five almost 6:00 in the morning and I was not gonna compete and that's when I was like okay can Please, God, please. You know, like I I mean, and the EMTs were like, "You throw it one more time. We're taking you in. There's no show for you. We got to run fluids and your show's done." And I was like, "I will hold that in for real." I was like, "I'm just not going to say anything. I'm just going to meditate and I'm just going to be like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine." You know what I'm saying? Cuz I was like, >> you got to think that was a year after my first Mr. Olympia where I placed third. So, I'm thinking, well, I have a chance to place top three again. Yeah. >> Um it didn't work out that way. But yeah, that was the only real I would say as far as like an illness. Um yeah, that was the only year I ever had anything. Do you do you think uh the judges ever got to see your best physique? I know almost every one of my pro buddies when we talk about peing on stage, most all of us have said, "I never brought the best." Like best me was either hours later, the next day, two days before. or do you feel like you've you've presented the best? >> I think well I could say no but for probably a different reason. Okay. >> Is because >> um I end up getting a hernas. >> So if I'd have never got that winning 10 Mr. Olympias would have not been a problem. >> They would have seen something. I mean they've already seen some stuff from me that was never I don't think will be duplicated in some way. >> You know I'm the only Mr. Olympia, whoever win seven consecutive in a two-day show format. No one's ever done that. >> And do you feel on all those like on when you hit stage, this was best you? >> No, I think like every year had his own story. >> Right. Right. Cuz I feel like that's a common theme. You are the most winning guy though I've talked to. So I was really curious. >> 11. So 11. Yeah. That was like the both the best balance on Friday Saturday. uh 12 I believe like it was a different physique because I was going after more uh density knowing knowing that I was only thinking about Kai >> and he was a very dense bodybuilder. So I was like well my shape and conditioning is always going to carry me through. But if I can train with more eccentric movements like he did and I can just get a little bit more thickness like in the back I'm going to be just fine. So that's what happened there. 2013 I basically took 2011 and 2012 had them merged together and it was in perfect harmony and that was fantastic. 2014 um what happened 2014? Oh, I end up eating uh there was a recall on freaking almond butter and I was eating it for 3 months and didn't know it cuz I already had it stocked up in the house. So I had um I end up taking calc what's it called? Magnesium whatever citrate. >> Yeah. and it created like a rock in my stomach and I didn't realize like oh I need to now hydrate. Oh man, this is not going to be good. So I couldn't go to the bathroom. So I just had like you know water like on me in 2014. Thank goodness Kai didn't look that great in Friday because I probably would have lost cuz by Saturday I fixed it. >> But Friday I was like not well. But that was also the year that he and I got into it. 2015 I came in more streamlined because I was so afraid that you know I was like I was getting too big and I was like and and I'm honestly I'm listening to too many people. That's when the internet was like oh yeah you know he's got this you know problem with his stomach and this and that and judges were like hey let's keep it together. So I was like, "All right, bet." 2015, I just came out there. If you look at prejudging, came out there Red Pros and Dresses. I just go like, "Now what? That means I should win." Because I lost probably like a good eight pounds of muscle just to go make sure that I was shredded. Shredded. And the only person I was going against really at the time was Dexter and the late Shawn Rhoden. >> So I kind of picked the way I wanted to look based on the field. >> Yeah. >> Because in 2016, I I told I was like, "Let's just go for broke." And that means Friday. like let's not wait till Saturday, let's just go. And that was like the hardest like grainiest version of myself on Friday. And then um 2017, you know, I thought we did really good. I think the problem is again that's when the hernas really came into play in 2017. And in 2018, of course, you know, I tore my incisions, didn't really get to showcase how I wanted. 2020 when I came back. [snorts] I will say this, if I was to ever release the contest pictures for 2020, which everybody says that, oh yeah, if I show you the pictures, man, listen, that year, even though cuz I didn't do 2019. >> Mhm. >> If I would have came in, right, we totally missed our mark. Like we did something stupid, you know, going like two weeks out, I would never advise it. I basically did a different diuretic than I ever did in my career. And um [snorts] you know it was my body, my choice type of thing. You know, you can get advice, but I'm not going to blame anybody. I raised my hand to that. It just didn't work. And um I came in more flat and not myself. My electrolyte balance was completely off. And um I felt like I had like two chins, you know, because I was running a different diuretic that time and I wasn't getting the same type of food and it was just recipe for disaster. But two weeks out I was probably like I think I was still like 260 like 262. >> Yeah. >> And hard like and you know how I get hard like grill marks in the glutes like I was like to the point where I was having to eat like no BS like every day steak and eggs every day. I had to have it with hash browns and a biscuit. Like I'm not even playing like it wasn't because of we had no GOP ones. wasn't because of anything but just a basic ass fat burner, LC carnitine, coffee for, you know, that was the cardio mix and literally just like I was running hard like my metabolism was on fire and I think from the muscle maturity like I learned as I got older because of real muscle you needed to feed the muscle more like you could get away and that's probably why Ronnie was able to eat the way he did because he had so much muscle like he had to feed it some extra calories whereas other people, they don't have that quality of muscle to even substantiate that. >> But yeah, I don't think the judges really got to see the best version because I got hurt and then I missed my peak in 2020. But man, those are those nightmares I'll probably have for the rest of >> You're the first person I've actually heard come to stage like with that mentality. That was really interesting to hear you talk about because most guys are just competing against themselves. They're trying to bring the better version of them where you actually took into consideration like I'm going to be going up against this guy. >> Yeah, I know what I know who I'm going against. Like if I say I'm going against Kai. I got to I got to assess what his strengths and weaknesses are. Okay, he's more dense. I don't need to be as big. I just need to be a better version of me in these particular areas. >> Yeah. I've never heard anyone else go at it like that >> because it because it's like fighting. Counter punches are massive in a fight, right? >> But a guy like like I feel like uh only you could kind of get to do that because you know you're going to be in the top two. Everybody else is just like I got to get better. I get better. I'll be hope I'll be glad if I make top 10 or whatever where you know like I know I'm going to be battling for probably the top three spots. This is who I'm going after. This is how they're going to look. I already know I got them beat >> with fullness. Uh yeah, I think I knew like early on that I would be a bigger version of a Dexter Jackson cuz he and I had like similar conditioning. >> Um so I always told myself like if he's going to be the most condition, I got to be right there >> because I ain't going to be no Jay Cutler. I'm not I'm not structurally wide like that. I'm going to be who I am. >> So I always looked at myself like more like a combination of like >> Flex, Kevin, and Chris, you know, Cormier, like somewhere around there. So, let me let me let me like let me look at those three physiques and pick and choose like where I feel like my physique lies. And really, it was just conditioning. I was like, I can get round like them. I can have no weakness really like them. I just got to make sure that when I'm dieted down, I don't lose my legs. Cuz that's a big thing um for me that was like make sure because I did so much cardio, like I was so cardio heavy that you know your legs got to survive, you know. Um, and then just knowing that don't do anything that you consider 5% better, getting 5% better because you'd be 20% worse. So none of that crazy stuff you read online like, oh yeah, eat pie filling before the show and like have like three burgers and it's like, >> yeah, that might work for one show and then the next one you're going to look like ass, you know? So I kept a journal actually for every contest. I kept a journal and I'm talking about a journal like not just food but like even when I went to the bathroom and >> Oh wow. And like how often was it number one or number two was it you know like all that. I kept journals on all that and I would bring it to Vegas. So I'd [snorts] be there for like 10 days and I would give it to Haunting. We'd look at it and we like okay we're kind of ahead of schedule. Oh yeah. What did we do last year? Okay we did this. >> Okay that didn't work last year. Let's do this. You know. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And but at least we had kind of like a guide. >> Yeah. >> But Yeah. Who gave you the uh nickname? >> An old roommate. >> What? So, yeah. When is that college or when? >> No, like post college. He was like, "Yeah, your nickname is the gift, man." Cuz um not because of just people are going to get messed up. They're going to think like, "Oh, you're calling yourself the gift." Like, you know, I'm like, "No, no, no. It's more like everybody has one, but mine is like different because I'm going to be able to come from a different sport in basketball, going to be articulate, going to have a different type of swagger, and I'm going to connect with people differently through that. And I just was like, bro, like that ain't going to sound right initially. So, [laughter] we're just going to run with the most arrogant one, and we're just going to let people make define it however they want because that just sounds too scientific. >> Yeah. >> But really, that's what it is. It was really like I have a gift. It's really like back in what ' 05? What were bodybuilders considered? >> You know, freaks, you know, meattheads. Everything negative. Like everything was negative. >> Yeah. >> And mine was more like, no, man. Like, I'm just taking the gift that I have. I'm cultivating it just like any superhero would. The f the first Matrix, he don't even know who he is. Then the second one, he does. Then the third one, he's ready to go dominate. Same with Luke Skywalker. Same thing. So, it's like taking her gift. Now that I'm winning, now I get to tell people, you have a gift. You go find that niche. Figure it out. Learn it. Face yourself over and over again. Do the work. And then when it's your turn, you share it. >> How how hard is it to transition because you're so meticulous as a pro competing for years, uh, counting, you're journaling your bowel movements, your diet. Yeah. And then no no [laughter] like how much >> I have people collect it you know like right like how they collect Putin stuff you know can't give out all the secrets you know [laughter] >> you go from tracking everything >> y >> to regular life >> what is that like >> you know it's so bad cuz now you're calling me out I feel attacked I mean I mean but it's got to be a hard transition be weird >> cuz you just be like all right I don't need that notebook anymore >> hobbies did you pick up new hobbies or go back to hobbies >> I was in depression for 4 and 1/2 years. >> Four and a half, bro. >> Four and a half. >> That's tough. >> No [ __ ] >> Damn. >> Wow. >> No, no BS, man. Like, >> well, you're so driven towards something and then it's gone. >> I mean, it's it's normal to go through four and a half. >> Four and a half, man. >> Yeah, it hit everything. You know, CO didn't help me any Well, any, you know, bad was bad timing. And then, you know, I was I did the 2020 Olympia. I had already been finishing up our documentary, Breaking Olympia. And then after that, you know, I was being managed by Danny Garcia at the time, the Garcia companies, Seven Bucks, because they were a part of the dock. And then my whole transition was to try to go into Hollywood. Well, I had to stay in shape past the Olympia. >> So that late spring, I got a call to be in the through Warner Brothers to be in Black Adom. >> Mhm. >> That never came into fruition. Still got paid, but didn't happen. But yet, I'm still having to get lean. And you know, I got down to like 226, which was like obviously I ain't on nothing, [laughter] you know, I'm on Pelaton twice a day and I'm like emaciated where people are like, "Dude, you're doing a show again and I thought you retired." And I was like, "No, man." So I think after that and I realized like the way I view it, the Hollywood thing wasn't going to pan out because I just was not going to take that shot. I was not [snorts] going to take that jab, dude. And I think that that and that's just my opinion. And I just felt like that alone was probably making people feel nervous. So none of that really came into fruition in the other films that I was offered. I was like it was overly sexualized and I was like I'm not going to be just some sex dude and >> you know just some weirdo and you know >> shout outs to anybody. >> Why do they do why do they do that to the bodybuilder guys? >> Yeah. >> Cuz they cuz they want to see >> go. I mean, to their point, you got to think like some directors probably like >> I'm getting to see like the one of the best physiques [laughter] of all time and I can't get him to take a shirt off. >> Take your clothes off. That's your >> take your clothes off. >> You know, it' be like seeing like Pamela Anderson. You don't want to see her to take her clothes off. Like as a director, they're probably like, "No, I want to see your clothes." >> That's like your thing, right? You're a bodybuilder. Take your clothes off. >> Yeah. Like, why are you so weird about it? Wink wink. Why are you so weird about it? It's like, [laughter] so I'm like, "No, I want to be there for my artistic ability." And you know, >> did you see Mike's? >> Yeah, man. [laughter] >> Hey, bro. Hey, listen. Listen. We have You didn't warn us about bro. I know he's home. Hey, listen. He comes on the show. He comes on the show. We have a great He's a boy [laughter] and he's promoting it and like, "Hey, not one time you're going to give me a heads up on what I'm going to watch." No, he didn't TELL US [ __ ] BRO. HE DIDN'T TELL us nothing. >> He didn't say like, "Hey, prepare yourself." Nothing. He could He could have been like, "Hey, just >> just a homie nod." Just off air you go. Hey, just so you know, you know what I'm saying? Give me but didn't say nothing. >> You seen a theater or at home? >> I saw at home. Thank God. Yeah, I'm watching. I watch. No, I watch it first. These guys haven't watched it yet. And I'm like, >> you're just as bad as him cuz you didn't tell them. >> Oh, I know. I told him. I text him right. I was like, "Dude, you still made us watch it." >> I said, "You have to watch this." And I was like because he I can't believe he came on the show, talked all this whole time about it and then even off air never once gave us like a like a plot. >> Boy. >> Yeah, dude. >> I I mean, good for him, man. I I love him, man. Him and Mona, you know, >> they're great. >> They are great. We got nothing but love for him. But to not to but not give us a heads up on like >> I just couldn't do it. So, >> I couldn't either. I wouldn't be able to do it. >> Yeah. that that really led into like a lot of like where's my identity >> cuz I put it so much into sports my whole life from childhood to you know everybody majority of people their last high school football game and that's it basketball game that's it >> for me I [snorts] got to go to college now I wasn't no star or anything but I still was on a team >> you got you got to take me through you take first before we move on cuz I'm still stuck on the mic [laughter] so and the fact that you cuz I just I never thought that like this is probably a thing that they they poach Buck breaking. Look it up. Buck breaking. Like they are like, "No, we want to know what we can get away with." >> And that is not something that's told to you. >> [ __ ] that. >> Refers to historical content of the sexual brutalization, humiliation, black men. Oh, >> wow. >> [ __ ] >> Yeah. I did not even know this is a thing. >> Think about most black dudes and I mean you see on TV like have they either worn a dress or they're out there being like a sex symbol like like overly sexualized. Not like I didn't even know. >> I think that part of that too is their their little uh the satanic initiation. That's what I think% humiliation rituals. >> So I think yeah [laughter and clears throat] they would get away with >> are they are they offering good money even cuz I I'm sure >> I wouldn't have known. >> Okay. So you didn't even enterain that point. >> You didn't even entertain it. No, because when you're reading a script and it was, for all I know, the script that I was reading, to be to be completely honest, might have been for that same film [laughter] because it sounded very No, like the first scene was like me in like a freaking truck driving to a gym and I'm kind of like just like staring off into the world just like again and a girl's head pops up and it's like really that's [laughter] the first that's the first scene like you know what I'm saying? And you know what's funny? I'll never forget like, hey, props to you, man. My wife and I are reading. We're reading this like >> like I'm and I shouldn't have been doing this, but you know, you texting and driving and I'm reading the text while I'm driving and she's reading it and I was like waiting for her response and I was like, nah. Text them back and say that's just not what I'm looking for. I wanted to be like, you know, a coach Carter or like Denzel and like remember the Titans, [laughter] you know, the rocking like grid iron gang, something like that. You know what I'm saying? where I'm helping out youth or something like that to pull from like my old >> DNA of like being in sport. Not that part. >> Good for you though because I bet a lot of guys are want to be in Hollywood so bad that they're tempted by that. That they're like, "Hey, I got to pay my dues." >> I mean, I get like if you're an actor and that's all you and if that's your thing and and granted like I would say this, [clears throat] >> you're an artist that is not your identity. >> You're playing a different identity. So if you're if I'm an actor and they say, "Hey, Phil, you got to be an axe murderer." And I'm like, >> "Hell no, you know, but if I'm that, I got to act." >> Yeah. >> So they're probably thinking the same thing. This is just a role that I'm acting with this and that. >> I'm not really that person. >> But my whole thing is, but what if I like it? >> How is that going to sit? And really, do I need to have this conversation with my wife and be like, "Hey, like I'm about to do this film. I'm going to have this love scene, this and that. Are we cool? >> We don't fly like that. >> And we had this conversation like long before. >> So, >> you know, we just have some standards and it's not to, you know, poke at anybody else. I mean, they live their life. It was just not for me. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, I'm fortunate enough to have things to quote unquote fall back on or fall into. And look, I would still entertain doing a film. It would just have to be something that I would like to do. >> Yeah. that would I think ethically and morally would make sense because I'd also have to be good at what I'm you know portraying. So then if you guys are watching it, you can say, "Well, that's not Phil. That's >> Jake. You know, that's whoever I'm playing cuz otherwise >> you guys would read right through that." You know, >> at this point when you were going through this like identity thing and you're looking at Hollywood, which by the way, kudos to you for for you know, sticking to your guns. At that point, was your faith strong like it is now or was that later? Did that >> start? That was like the start, I think, cuz that was when we were living in Florida. And >> I think [clears throat] >> being out there, >> man, I just felt like there was no like although the state was free, you know, especially postco and all that stuff. >> You there was no faith. >> Yeah. >> You never saw that. Like there was no one I met at the gym or anything that was like, "Oh yeah, man. Me and the guys were about to go to Bible study or about to go to the gym, you know, about to go do this, that, and the other. But I would hear that even when I was in Denver, I was just like, I'm fixated on this Olympia stuff. >> So, I just felt like everything when I was living when we were living in South Florida was like, how much money do you have, what kind of car you drive, like where are you going out to dinner tonight? >> It was like flashy culture. And I'll be honest, like there was a point in time in my life where I was very flashy. But at this point, you know, some things got stripped away due to co, you know. Um, so I started having a bigger faith walk just out of the necessity of wanting something bigger than myself and then trying to figure out, okay, I'm clearly troubled because I've focused on the validation of the world. There I said it. >> Yeah. >> Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. And then you're having the conflict of saying but but look what I got from it. traveling the world, meeting people, becoming somebody, and it's like, well, who you think got you through it? >> And who you think is gonna get you through this one now? So, that's when you're on your knees screaming, hollering, like, you know, not knowing who you are, but just crying out saying, "Lord, please." Like, it ain't just a DMX song and Lord, give me a sign. It's like for real. Like, tears in your eyes of like I just need to know what it is that I'm supposed to be doing. and I'll and I'll just wait. [clears throat] I'll just wait and next thing you know um you know better deals came and you know things that I really wanted to do came and yeah you know you make a deal here to go bad you know that's just the way of being an entrepreneur you know it happens but I started feeling like more discernment and I'd say through that walk I started realizing that the re even as I'm talking about it like the gym the gym served a different purpose back then and then having to start from zero and going through that depression, I had to recreate it for something for the next for the next nine holes of this golf course. So now I'm at a point where yeah, the depression was real. Um to the point where, you know, I got three different types of sand out trophies in my house. That alone should make me happy, right? But no, because I had a hollow victory every one of them [snorts] >> because I was able to leverage all my small and big trauma. M >> all my pain went to that people. I was probably the best at training angry. >> But it yielded something that the world wanted. >> Yeah. >> That I believe God gave me an opportunity. He gave me a platform, but now I get to use it for something else. And I just didn't know what that was. Now I feel like I'm learning like, >> no, you're the evidence, Phil. Like you were able to get through this. And if you're on the other side healthy and strong and you can motivate people to live a better life and give a damn about their success and but then also enjoy it. >> [clears throat] >> because I can't remember like more than 10 instances where I was really enjoying >> I this I got a question for you so I don't know if this if this is similar experience for you but um I always used to train angry >> that's just how I worked out always as a kid angry angry music death metal let's go >> and uh the more angry the better and don't approach me you know while I'm working out >> and um then I become a Christian >> and uh this wasn't on my doing this was just a gift that It was just a blessing. Uh, my music changed and I work out joyful now, which is very [laughter] >> It's better. >> I'm laughing cuz I'm like, "Yeah, >> is this okay?" So, it's better. It's weird because you I would have never said that before. It was like I'm at war and now I'm like smiling. I'm singing worship music and I'm joyful. It's very different experience. It's a better experience. Are you finding any of that? Is it work? >> I'm laughing because I have found that and I think when people have seen me >> like the best compliment I've received is Phil, you look so happy. >> Oh, okay. >> And I think that's why >> that's cool >> because they probably saw me. I mean, people live through YouTube, right? So, they seen like all these videos and stuff of like >> Phil's the freaking dream killer and this and that and it's like, yeah, I was, dude. And I can't lie, man. That that ego got me through life. >> Yeah. >> That ego kept me alive in certain instances. that ego got me those titles, you know, through the pain and this and that, but what's I don't need him anymore. It's not a life or death situation. I don't have to live in fight or flight. And I do the same thing. And as a matter of fact, I um I post a lot of Christian hiphop, >> you know, a lot of Christian rap >> and it's funny because you have like your your playlist and I started looking through my playlist and I'm like, >> I can't really vibe with that no more. And I started deleting some of those playlists. >> Isn't that wild? >> Yeah, it it has been wild. Like, so wait a minute. I used to and I, you know, on I use like Spotify so I can see like the lyrics. I started reading them and I was like, >> it's preaching to you. >> This don't No, but the the other stuff that's the old stuff will preach to you. You got to make sure this is bad, bro. Like what are we talking about? Like the things that we're saying >> and I'm thinking, >> yeah, I don't like that anymore. So when I hear like a bunch of, you know, >> like really nasty derogatory language, like foul language at the gyms, I literally have to make sure that my earbuds are like charged up, ready to roll cuz um I just don't vibe with it. And yeah, I listen to praise and worship while I train. I'm happier when I train. People are probably, you know, they see me at the gym and I'm I I think when I'm training I I'm very stoic, so you don't know. I'm a very hard person to read. So they don't know if I'm approachable or not. And I'm like, "No, no mama. Come on over, take a picture." This and that. You know, they're like, "Are you sure?" I'm like, "I am not competing. I'm not getting you know what I'm saying? Like, you want to get a selfie? That's cool. >> I'm not getting ready for the Olympia anymore." Um, but yeah, I do believe the things that we read, the thing the people who we hang out with, but most importantly, the things that we listen to. >> Yeah. I had that huge, >> I had a weird experience the other day. I'm in here filming and I film the the faith series, the one that you were on, and I had worship music on, but we have trainers with clients in here. very aware of the clients and I want to make sure this is their gym, not mine. Even though I'm doing my thing, this is your gym. >> Lady comes in, she's working out. I got my music on and I'm like, "Hey, what do you like to listen to?" This is your gym. Oh, I like hip-hop. So, I put on 90s hip-hop. Okay, old gangster rap. >> And I'm working. I was working out before and then I was working out again with the music and I found I felt prideful. It totally changed how I felt. And I'm like, man, music preaches to you. You got to choose what you want preach to you. >> But it changed my vibe. I was like before I was happy. Now I'm like look in the mirror like I'm the [ __ ] >> I'm like uhoh that is very interesting. >> What are we doing? >> Yeah. Very very interesting. >> And especially when you when you you know just say it when you give your life to Christ right like you start saying like all right >> well I'm not going to do the same things I was doing before even though they served a purpose. uh like and and I'm look I'm not going to say that you know I'm friends like I'm friendly with some of these major artists like hip-hop artists I know some of their DJs I know some of their producers they've sent me beats they've sent me early releases and I'm like can you just send me the instrumentals bro like I just [laughter] you know you're being nice no you're being nice like you're not trying to like you know crap [clears throat] on them or anything because this is their artistic you know stuff so I'm like Hey, I just want to hear the beats, you know, man. I can see so and so singing on this. I can see this. And I text them back. They're like, "Oh, yeah, man. Wait till it come out next week." And I hear it and I'm like, >> man, it just don't it don't hit me the same. >> Do you ever feel like this this is a question for you because of uh you had such a um successful from a worldly sense uh successful past. Do you ever feel like Lot's wife where you're like, "Don't turn around. Don't look back. You're going to turn into a pillar." Do you ever find yourself in those moments where you're looking back kind of fondly, but then like, "Wait a minute. >> I've been here before." >> Yeah. >> Or I can see my friends or I can see like the younger guys >> and I'm like literally don't touch that. Don't touch that hot stove. >> Yeah. >> You know, or Phil like I mean, you know, you're in the world of health and fitness, right? So, you're going to see, you know, a lot of women. So, you have to be very mindful. >> Can't have a lustful heart and all this other stuff. you know, checking out chicks all day and then you have your friends being like like back in the day like, "Hey man, look at that." Now you got like competitions like wellness and stuff and every girl's got glutes, you know, so you're like, "Okay, can I just appreciate someone's hard work without gawking?" >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? And not be a creep. This and that. The answer is yes. It is just or if you notice a pattern of how people approach you with certain conversations where you know that it could become very toxic, highly gossip driven or even you know that one guy, he is the playboy of playboys. He's going to talk about women non-stop and I'm just like I'm out. >> Yeah. >> I just shut it down. I'm like all right man I'm not really here for that. You know you got anything else you want to talk about? And it's literally just being more bold about it and they're like what's your deal? I'm like, cuz I'm married and I'm trying to have kids and I really don't care about that. And I've been there, done that, bro. And I'm >> this way. That was behind me. I don't need to do that. >> Talk about your path to fatherhood right now. I mean, what's that? What's going through? Like, what are you thinking? Are you like excited, nervous? >> I mean, that I'm going to be nervous when she comes home and says, "Hey, I'm, you know, we're doing this. You know, we're pregnant." >> Um, but I think at my age now, like, you know, my first marriage, I was uh fathering her son at 12 at Yeah. like 11, 12 years old. Um, so I know what that's like. >> But to hold your own. >> Yeah. An infant. >> An infant. I don't know what that's like. And especially in this day, that's something that I've realized now. I really need to know who I am. And I have to be building up um I'm having to evolve more as a better human, a better man. Because if I say, "Oh, yeah, I want to have kids." It's like, but you have to be a better man to be a better father and a better husband. So, shouldn't that be your goal, Phil? Shouldn't that be your eighth, ninth, 10th sandal? You know what I'm saying? Like, you gave majority of your adult years to a sport that still loves you and all this other stuff. But, man, >> having your own, like, that would be sick. And, you know, my wife and I have talked about it. If that's not God's will, like we would probably try to, you know, foster a child, you know, like we would be willing to do that because [clears throat] >> we just have that in us. My wife is so awesome. Like she definitely is. >> She deserves to be a mom. Like she is so cool. Like like she just knows how to take care of our house. Like like I could be traveling, you know, I travel the world, right? And she's at home. Like I could just imagine like what it would be like her, you know, taking care of a child if I'm traveling. You know, I could be doing my own form of ministry, you know, like doing a meet and greets and actually having quality conversations and, you know, promoting sport and all that stuff while she's at home with our kids. You know, helping them be straight. And then when I come home, just I would love to have a son or a daughter. You know, I know it would be very difficult at times, but to run up and grab your leg. >> Oh, it's the best. It it would probably get me teared up a lot, but I would be so like I I've always heard this from all my guy friends. You guys tell me different. It's like you have an extra gear now. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh yeah. So I would love to know what that's like >> because I [clears throat] know how protective I am over my family and also my friends. >> When you say you die for them and you do anything for them, it's like I know there would be another level. And I feel like completeness as far as legacy would be fulfilled if I can with the assistance of my wife and having some, you know, a tribe, you know, cuz it does take a village. I do know that. >> But it would just be so freaking dope just to look at them and even if they're acting like gremlins at the freaking movie theater, you know, acting cool, right? They will. >> I would probably be like, "Yep, that's me. >> I can't even get mad. I'm gonna discipline him, but I'm like, "Hey, come here." >> Yeah. >> Don't do that. You know, >> that's right. >> You know, so yeah. >> You said kids, too. Sounds like you want more than one. >> Well, if if I could have two, I mean, why not? You know, I was raised as an only child, so, >> you know, making friends. I wouldn't say it was difficult, but it was something that I wanted. You know, I always wanted to be around. And I was fortunate like I had, you know, three friends that had a household of four boys. >> Wow. All three of them. >> All three of them. >> Oh, wow. Yeah. >> Yeah. The Washingtons, the Burles's, and the Wheelers. So, it's like And one of the the Burles, they're like, >> they like to see the food. >> The Burles, they played sports. Uh, Nathaniel Burles. >> Nate Burlson. >> Yeah. Nate. That was my childhood friend. >> Oh, no kidding. >> Yeah. So, I grew up with his, you know, around them. Went to elementary school with with Nate. I'm a year older than Nate. his brother Kevin and I, we were like, you know, good friends. His brother, Kevin actually, I believe he's still there. He's assistant coach for Detroit Pistons. And uh yeah, man. So, I mean, imagine our sand lot, you know, basketball games, football games, all that stuff. So, I would love to have, you know, more than one. I would love to have a boy and a girl. Lord, help me if I have two girls. [laughter] >> I just think of that sometimes. I'm like, "Oh, boy." >> I got both. It was meant to be. If so, right? >> I'm like, it's meant to be, but man, Lord, help me, man. >> I got I'll pray for I got boys and girls. >> I'll be outnumbered. >> Hey, nothing melts. Nothing will melt you like a little daughter. >> I know. >> Nothing. I got both. I got boys and girls. I love them. And they're different. >> But my daughters melt me like >> That's what I'm saying. I'm like, >> screwed. >> I'm I'm looking at Sheree right now. I'm like >> a little her. >> Oh, [laughter] all day. And I I you know, she's like, "Oh my gosh, you're going to have a girl cuz you were crazy and this that." I was like, man, >> that's true. By the way, we got friends. We know, [laughter] bro. >> I was like, she's not all over the place. I'm like, >> oops. [laughter] >> If she's got both of us, oh my gosh, world better watch out cuz she has a man she I mean, Shri is amazing, but just, you know, even aesthetically, I'm like, are they going to have muscles? Are they going to have you know what I mean? Like, you know, cuz when I I look at baby pictures of myself, I'm like, I had little calves and stuff. [laughter] Oh, it was. >> And I'm like, man, if I got calves and legs, Shereice got calves >> and she got glutes. And I'm like, >> uhoh, >> no. No. [laughter] Like, no. No, >> Dad. I want to go play volleyball. No, no. Here's a piano. Just be skinny. Just [laughter] no. I don't want some kid coming over being like, "Hey man, your daughter looking hot." Or I'll be like, "Oh my gosh." Like, I'm I'm going to be having to stay swole till I'm like 65. That [laughter] was easy, right? You're going to you're going to crush being an older I was an older dad. So being an older dad like you're just at a different place way more mature that you even the way you talk about ego and everything you've been through like imagine raising a kid at 20. >> Oh impossible. >> And having to go through all >> so the fact that you've been through all of that and then having a kid like you'll be patient you'll be you'll be calm you'll you have so much more wisdom like Yeah. I think I was like that when like when I was married the first time and I was dealing with, you know, my stepson >> and he was big into um Oh man, this is dating us all. He was big into like UFC. >> Yeah. >> So he liked GSP cuz you know he was a champion at the time. So I bought him that that DVD set of Rushfit >> and he would like work out in his room. Now he's like a freaking black belt and Muay Thai. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. So it's like neat to see how that turned out for him. >> [clears throat] >> But psychologically like what these kids go through, you know, like in middle school and stuff like that. And I and I got to experience that and kind of be that voice of reason like >> the reason why you got in trouble, son, is because this, this, and this. The reason why we tell you not to do this is to protect you, not to make you hate us. You know, it's just so those conversations, I think it would be quite easier because, yeah, again, I mean, I was like in my mid-30s during that time and of course I have more life to me. I think it would be how do I navigate this world to where the kid knows that no matter what happens they are always to come to me and wife >> they're always supposed to come to us because we love them and we cherish them and they don't have to look to these teachers or whatever first because you know you start seeing like how schools are >> they get a hold of your kids they could be poisoning your kids >> and that's another reason why I want to still still be jacked because I would walking through that school and be like Hey, this is my kid. >> Yeah, you're going to be all right, bro. >> This [laughter] is my kid. I don't care what you do with them. >> They're going to scare the hell out of all the followers. >> I know. I I know where you go get your laundry. I know everything, man. Like, >> well, if any if this helps you at all, there's this really big study on uh adolescence and teenagers and they were trying to look at what because they've been depressed and anxious and this is the first time in history when that generation is the most depressed and anxious typically is people in middle age. And what they found the be best predict predictor of of of good health like no anxiety like almost completely nullified the effects of social media and stuff was were the kids active in church. >> So that that gives you a little bit of you know so when the kids active in church and was dad active in the church and it made and it's like the kids were protected completely. Yeah. >> From some of those issues. So >> well you got to be able to do that. I mean, you know, I was raised Southern Baptist originally and my, you know, my mom's from the deep south, so is my dad. >> And, uh, that makes a lot of sense. I mean, there's certain things that have to be in order. >> Yeah. Good community. >> Keep them off tech as long as you can. >> And keep them off tech. >> Prolong that as long as you can. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, the beautiful Pandora's box. >> The beautiful thing is that I got friends like y'all be like, "Hey, what y'all do?" [laughter] cuz you know it is it is interesting when you go out to dinner and you see everybody with the handhelds. >> Yeah, it's crazy. >> It's you know from >> you know you it's depressing. >> You can go to a Michelin star and still see someone on a date with a handheld. >> It's like can we not just put that down and all just enjoy this little tiny piece of food and just enjoy each other's company. That's why I really like traveling overseas. Um I'll be going to Italy. I usually go to Italy once a year and to go to restaurants, you know, they eat late. >> They're just laughing. >> Yeah. Culture is different. 3 hours long conversations. >> They're hanging out. And I'm like, >> no tech, >> no kid with the headphones on. And I get it. Like some kids, you know, they have auditory issues, maybe a little bit of autism, asberers, and stuff like that. Totally understand. >> Um, but yeah, like you shouldn't have to just throw them an iPad. >> Yeah. They should learn like how to sit there and >> Yeah. >> be quiet, >> you know. Yeah. >> I mean, I didn't have, you know, my mom didn't I mean, we didn't have a Game Boy and, you know, on a phone back then, but my mom wasn't just saying like, "Here's some Legos, like go do this while I'm at we're at dinner." Like, no. Like, it was be quiet or just engage in conversation or or just sit there and eat your food and listen. Mhm. >> I think we all should have a >> a a chance to just be >> connect. >> You're going to do great, dude. You're going to be a great dad for sure. >> Be fun, man. I know that. >> Well, good luck with that, dude. We'll be I'll be praying for you, brother. That happens and and you healthy. >> Oh, man. I would love to be able to I just like you, you know, you see >> and I really appreciate that you guys um you see like how Michael Hearn is with Titan, you know? >> Yeah. And I look at that, I was like, >> that would be so dope. You know, I have like certain plans and and stuff and just again, I just want to take what my father did and what my stepdad did and what my mom's did and just be like, "Okay, >> this is how we can make this really fun and cool." And just the first sporting event and I I'll never forget like going to the first baseball game, you know, like stuff like that. Like >> I got to see I got to see Ken Griffy Jr. hit his first home run. in the really in the kingdom. >> That's a cool memory. >> You know, my stepdad, he used to work for the NBC affiliate and he used to get tickets. >> So sick. >> And we got to see it and he would bring the radio to [snorts] listen to the playbyplay. >> Wow. >> Mhm. >> And that was back in the day, man. Dave knee house, man. He used to uh be the uh announcer and man, Belg, you know, what a cool memory. >> Oh my gosh. Like I'm a huge Griffy fan. Like hum awesome. Best swing ever in my opinion. Bonds probably him and Bonds probably had the best. I think >> Griffy's prettier stealing record. >> Oh, dude. That's insane. >> It was insane. Yeah, >> he's Man, he was >> one of my favorites of all time. Yeah. >> What a what a great era of athletes. >> I know. We had the best, dude. >> They would all be like people would obviously say that these guys are using >> like they'd be like, "He can't be that fast." Like a Bo Jacksonh. >> They'd be like, "No way." Like people would understand. What's crazy about him was how effortless it was. Like he didn't even care. >> I know how you break a bat like that, >> bro. You You hear I don't [laughter] know. >> You know how I out like I'm frustrated. >> Yeah. I've listened to a lot of his interviews and stuff like that and he just talks about like he he talks about too like uh when you go in the weight room he he'd go in and then he would sneak out the back and not lift. Like I mean he just was a freak of nature. >> He's freaks, dude. >> You guys ever wonder where the next one of those is? >> Right here, dude. Right here. Yeah, >> that's this is this is this is I think the next uh freak athlete that we're watching right now. To see him at 21 years old handling the way he's handling the ball handle. >> Oh, the way he's handling I mean he the last two games he broke broke back toback records. His he had >> he had 12 blocks in one game in a playoff. He just had 35 points, 12 rebounds, like five blocks. >> You have no answer for him. >> No answer. He's just he's he can do it all. He can shoot. He can defend. He can I mean dribble. He can Yeah. He's And he's humble. He's like a good teammate. Yeah. >> Who would you want to see like as far as like the current guys that are playing who like really break out like as far as like >> he's probably on the I'm the most pro him. Um I like I like Sha's game. I mean what we're seeing right now with uh Otani too is is crazy. >> That's crazy. >> First time we ever seen a pitcher that hits home runs like that. So that's you know. >> You know what I'd like to see is freaking Zion. It's he's a he's a sad story, dude. Like he had so much >> Yeah. I just want to see like I would love to see this guy really hunker down. >> I I Me, too. But I think it's I think his time has passed. I think he he I mean, if he were to come back and turn it around now, it would be unbelievable because what is he now in his >> fourth year? Oh, no. He's further than that. He's like >> Oh, cuz he didn't really play. >> Yeah, he's this is like year five or six now with him and he's just never completes a full season and >> Yeah. Yeah. No, he I I would have He was so crazy in in college. Everyone thought he was going to be the next, you know, freakish to watch. >> For sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I look at him, I'm like, >> "Oh, man. Why can't these guys just really hire >> like one of us?" >> I know. That's the part that's trips trips me. We I mean, we've had some great uh you know uh athletic coaches on here, but for the most part, >> a lot of people think that because you're a pro athlete, you have like these great co like a lot of them are network. They're wor like some homie they went to school with and that just like one one certification he's just and like the stuff that they're doing all the best coaches. Yeah, there's like five of them. >> Yeah. Put them on payroll and then they don't get to work out with like the actual strength and conditioning coach of the team. They'll bring in their own guy and because >> they all want to be their own man. Yeah. You know, but then again, you can't pay someone 20 plus million and think that he's not going to tell you to go f off. He's going to be like, "Well, then make me." [laughter] >> He's coming or I'm not coming. >> Yeah. I I I look at that. I'm like, "How are these guys not?" >> Like, we can get a whole another conversation ahead of time about load management, all this other crap, but like I just don't understand. I'll never get it as to why you're being paid that much money [clears throat] and you are having soft tissue injuries non-stop. It's >> or you just being a wuss. >> Well, we see the ones that do get it. And actually, I mean, you talk about people like LeBron, the reason why he's been able to go for as long as he has. He's spending a million dollars a year on recovery alone and like those guys have. Those ones have figured Tom Brady. I mean, there there's there's a few that have figured it out and have gotten the right people in their corner, but the the bulk of them don't. The bulk of them, like you said, >> I'd love to see someone play an 82 game season, though. With with the technology that they have today, I don't see why you couldn't. >> And I think it's selective. And I think part of it is the fact that they're like, "Well, I can gify the system." And what are they going to do? >> You got to adjust the training once you get there, man. You got to preserve. >> Yeah. Well, they're like long term. They can preserve my career and still and they're [clears throat] still willing to pay me 10 plus million if I don't go as hard. >> Well, that's one of the biggest controversies right now in basketball is the guys taking so many games off and you have some kid who >> bought tickets a month in advance to come see his superstar player. Oh, I've seen it, bro. You know, it's It's unfortunate. >> He's effed up, dude. Like it's like >> I just think I think that's the only reason why I always stick to like the Jordan era as being like the best is because those guys did play >> in as many games as possible and yeah, their careers might have got cut short. >> Mhm. >> But with today's technology and everything, why wouldn't you want to play? I don't know. Maybe cuz I never played in college really, you know, like I didn't, you know, like I had hoped. But I can only imagine like it would be like bodybuilding like okay, you know, I got I got I got a little bit of flack for not doing multiple shows throughout the year, but I was like, well, I'm already doing like the Arnold and the Olympia. >> I tell you what, if that money at the Arnold was, you know, where it was, you know, the and the Olympia was, I would do both those shows. >> How much is that scale, by the way? I don't I don't follow where where where it was 20 years ago where it is now. >> So the Arnold back in the day was like a hundred grand plus. It was really cool, though. They had the the check. You got a H2 Hummer. >> Okay. >> And a custom AP watch. >> Oh, I didn't know that. >> So, like when Jay Cutler won, he would get all three, which I thought was dope. You know, you get a car, you then eventually people were like, I don't want the car. I just want the cash, you know? It's like, yeah, but dude, like you go from that to like they're going to give you cash for like 35 grand. Why do that? Just get the car and drive it and wrap it, you know, do something else with it, >> right? the Olympia at the same time. I remember seeing like Ronnie [snorts] would win the Olympia. They would have like a Cadillac Escalade, you know, you know, SUV, you know, on the Olympic stage, you know, to go win. So, it was usually just like 100,000. Then it went then the Arnold stayed at like 130 for years. >> Yeah. >> Got up to 130K then with no car, no watch, just a check. >> The Olympia went up from 100 to 110 to 120. I think it went to like 200. And then by the time I won, I think it was like 250. So, I wanted at believe I think the first time I wanted it was either 200, 250, then it went to um 300 to 400 and then it it stayed there and then most recently Arnold was like, I don't want to play this game anymore. I honored this whole agreement because of Joe and Ben to keep the Arnold prize money below the Olympia. And then he said, screw it. I'm just going to do what I want. I'll break the rules. I'm gonna do I think he said he was gonna do 500,000 and that's when the Olympia was like we'll do 600,000. >> Then Arnold's like do you know who I am? >> 750. >> Wow. >> It's 750. >> I didn't realize it shot up that high. >> Dude, the Arnold this year was 750,000. Uh Andrew Jack won that >> and then he went over to the Arnold UK and picked up another 250. >> So he made a million in a month. >> Wow. Wow. So imagine Ronnie Coleman >> basically all the sandals that he won was probably still less than what someone won in one month. >> Wow. >> So it's changed dramatically. I'm happy that the athletes have the opportunity. >> Totally. Exactly. >> But I think now it's like, >> you know, you got that I think I think the Pittsburgh Pro is like 100 grand. >> I didn't know that. >> Pittsburgh Pro is now Yeah. 100,000. So you got multiple shows in six figures. And I think if they would have had to I don't know if they're having to do buy pro this year but I believe that's 100 grand as well. So I mean man like I see some guys not even want to leave the house to go compete and then they're like well I'm not going to win so I'm not going to I'm like dude second place still you know like Brandon Curry went to the Arnold UK. He I think he was he he was like fifth or sixth at the Arnold Ohio picked up second place still walked out with over 100 grand. >> Yeah. Wow. I'm like at his age in this sport like he's still able to, you know, place high, >> walk away with some good cash price. So, I think um I'm assuming the Olympia is going to probably go up in prize money, too, cuz they're not, you know, it's going to be a a game now. >> Yeah. >> Eventually, it'll hit a million, I think. >> Wow. >> Which a what a what a turn on that big time. >> Yeah. >> That'll I mean, >> and that's just for the open division. The other categories, I mean, the prize money does go up, but not as significant. >> Did you keep uh post all this? Did you keep a lot of sponsors? Do you still get uh good revenue from that or are you done with a lot of sponsorships? >> A lot of the sponsorships are done. They're much different. Yeah. >> Um you know, because before, you know, I was doing like the supplement stuff. Now I'm doing my own uh brand that'll be launching this summer. Like we had like a rebrand. >> Um so I'll be doing that. >> And you know, I didn't have a clothing sponsor when I was getting ready for Olympias back then, but now I do. I'm with Young LA. >> Oh, cool. >> I was pre previously with Gym Shark now with Young LA. I've been with them since the beginning of this year. Um and then just the the partnership deals are obviously different nowadays. You know, it's just >> it's some of it's data driven, some of it's legacy driven, some of it's a little bit of both. >> Yeah. >> Um >> you know, we definitely didn't have, you know, like tellaalth back then. >> You know, so there's the different component, you know, energy drink campaigns weren't going around back then. [clears throat] >> Um those are things that I'm the thing for me is like I always am very particular as to who I want to partner with. um because of what I built as a rep, you know, reputation, you know, and my legacy within the sport of bodybuilding. You don't just >> just because someone is willing to pay you doesn't mean that it's good money long term. >> And some of the stuff that you would want to do, maybe that only should be shortterm because maybe it's just like a cool ad campaign, you know, like it could just be something fun. >> Whereas other ones you think, well, this should be for at least two years. But then some companies are like, "Well, we only want like six months to 12 months." Because they're like again, they're looking at data driven things. So sometimes I just take myself out the equation, say, "How about I just not do it at all and just focus on other things like I do public speaking. You know, I work with different sports teams, uh, both, you know, amateur and, uh, non-professional right now, but some I almost wanted to say college is professional, but it pretty much is now." You know, so I guess I work with professionals, you know, so I've done that. So, I really I really do like working with um you know, high school and some uh collegiate sports programs because of the NIL deals. Yeah. Because that's a different layer, you know, of uh pressure. >> Got a 17-year-old, 18-year-old kid being told that they're all world and they're going to get all world money. >> And >> but their kids, >> but their kids and their parents are really driving those decisions. >> And if the kid isn't getting a certain amount of playing time or if the kid is playing well enough to go to a different school, they're going to hit that portal. It's not because it's not because of what the kid wants to do. It's because what the parents want them to do. Because now imagine the mom, the dad, if they're together, if they're not together, the mom may say or the dad may say, you know, uh, >> you know, you got to take after your younger brothers and sisters, you know. >> Yep. >> You know, this is generational wealth. Like this is what we this is why we, you know, took you to those AA tournaments and stuff like that. You don't think these parents are talking to their kids? Course they are they are ruthless. Have you have you heard of some of these crazy portal stories of like a whole team getting like wiped out in like a summer and stuff like that? Insane. >> Yep. >> You got your hands in so many things. What uh what's most consistent revenue for you and what's your favorite to do? >> My favorite is probably coaching, >> you know, and I do a lot of it privately. I get DMs, you know, people say, "Hey, would you like to be a keynote speaker here or there?" And then after I do that, people will want to hire me um to do other things. Oh, cool. That's that's always been something that um I I enjoy because it's it doesn't have to be heavily broadcasted, but it could be a lot more intimate. I plan on doing more of that. Actually, I'm doing a launching a fitness app here pretty soon. >> So, that'll enable more people to get um reps with me. >> Yeah. >> You know, because a lot of people have hit me up and say like, "Hey, how do you deal with performance anxiety? How do you go from being amateur to pro? And how do you go from pro to being a good one? And how do you even deal with like contracts and stuff within this crazy sport? >> Yeah. >> You know, a lot of them don't even know the pure structure of filing LLC's and and gaining trademarks. >> You know, having your own IP is a huge thing that a lot of people in in our industry do not have. >> They'll say, "Oh, well, I got a website or I've got a blue check mark." It's like, dude, you don't even own your freaking name. >> Yep. >> And you don't even have a war fund just in case someone wants to misrepresent it. So, you know, I really like to focus on those things because those things are universal. But yeah, that and um some other things I'll be able to launch here pretty soon. So, that's it for right now. But yeah, uh to be continued. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Exciting. >> Yeah. Good stuff, man. >> Awesome conversation again, bro. >> Thank you. >> Appreciate you coming on, man. >> Oh, of course. Anytime, man. >> Yeah. >> When I saw you text, I was like [snorts and sighs] >> I was about to screw with you and be like, "No, man. I just didn't [laughter] I didn't have fun last time. Too busy. Didn't show up, you know? Like, >> yeah, you really ruined it. >> Yeah, he was like such a jerk, man. Like he canled last minute. >> No, no, that was great. I I hope I can do it again, man. >> We will. Well, I tell you what, that's why I'm curious about the business stuff. So, when you have a big love to have you on and uh I'll kick it off, dude. Appreciate it. Of course. Appreciate it. >> You got to get my number, dude. Thanks for coming on, man. Awesome. Yeah. And I'll for sure be sending you guys some stuff, too. That's for sure. [laughter] >> All right. I know you like that episode. If you did, check this one out. One of the keys to fat loss is protein. It's true. If you're not eating in a high protein diet, you're not going to burn as much [music] body fat as you can. So, today's episode, we're going to talk about the smartest ways to use protein for fat burn and to build muscle. You got to watch this. I [music] wish I understood this earlier in my career. I think it was probably almost 10 years in when I started to just [music] focus on this with clients. >> I knew it was important, but I don't know how important. >> Yeah, I also did. I knew what was important and but I also