Peptide Expert: What Do Peptides Actually Do? (EXPLAINED) - Dr Alex Tatem

This may be the most controversial thing we have on this table. This is peptide [music] that actually tortures belly fat at a disproportionate rate. And what we found is not only do patients lose an incredible amount of weight, but they also get the best improvements we've ever seen in their liver health. It's absolutely wild, and I think this is going to be a trillion-dollar [music] drug when it comes out. I have brought you here because you're an expert on this subject, and it's worth saying that there was some significant news about this. Correct. From the FDA saying that in July they are going to consider legalizing seven peptides. And by pharma's estimate, it might be the most dangerous thing to their entire business model. [music] So, do you think it is plausible that big pharma didn't want these in the hands of regular people because they can't patent this and it's powerful? 110% because the question isn't what can peptides do, it's what can't they do. And we've got several peptides here in front of us. I don't want to go through all of them. Let's do it. So, this is probably the most well-known peptide for skin complexion, and it improves quality of hair and nails. And then epithalon is maybe maybe not going to be the fountain of youth, but I'm very skeptical as far as that goes. Next, we've got this. And if you injected that at night, it would improve your quality of your sleep. Next, melanotan two. And this will actually end up giving you a deep tan in [music] response to just a little bit of UV sun exposure. It'll also give you some of the most impressive erections you've ever had in your life, so be warned. And what else have we got? >> Oh my gosh. There's methylene blue where people take it and they think it's going to make them live forever. Don't take this. It literally will stain your nails blue and your hair blue. These two here stimulates building muscle. This one can aid with healing after an injury. And then is this. This. This. This. It's crazy. It's wild. So, why don't I take it? Well, we need to talk about that because there are trade-offs. But also Outside of the world of peptides for a second, I've got these three vials. Do you know what those are? Yeah, this is unfortunately our future if we're not careful. Explain. So, what we've got here is representing the fertility trajectory for young men. I'm so scared. This is super to me. My team give me this report to show me how many of you that watch this show subscribe and some of you have told us according to this that you are unsubscribed from the channel randomly. So, favor to ask all of you, please could you check right now if you've hit the subscribe button if you are a regular viewer of the show and you like what we do here. We're approaching quite a significant landmark on this show in terms of a subscriber number. So, if there was one simple free thing that you could do to help us, my team, everyone here to keep this show free, to keep it improving year over year and week over week, it is just to hit that subscribe button and to double check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll ever ask of you. Do we have a deal? If you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do. I'll make sure every single week, every single month we fight harder and harder and harder and harder to bring you the guests and conversations that you want to hear. I stay true to that promise since the very beginning of The Diary of a CEO and I will not let you down. Please help us. Really appreciate it. Let's get on with the show. >> [music] >> Dr. Alex Tatem. There's this word that has exploded in society in recent times. In fact, when I look at the data, people searching this word has increased by 400% just recently and that word is peptides. I have no idea what peptides are. I'm someone that wants to be healthy, that wants to optimize my health, wants to live long, doesn't doesn't love aging. Yeah. And I'm told that this word peptides is somewhat linked to it. So, I've brought you here because you're an expert on the subject, man. I've watched your videos on YouTube. To start at the very beginning, Dr. Alex, Sure. what the hell is a peptide? Peptides are a structural class of medications. The best way to think about peptides is that just like we have small molecules which are drugs that are very small, taken in a pill, and have a wide-ranging effect throughout the body. Peptides are derived from little pieces of amino acids, which think of them as the Legos that make up the human body, the Legos that make up proteins. These are fragments of proteins that are designed to specifically target certain receptors and affect cells in a very targeted fashion. Or a best way to think about it is a very specific targeted key to unlock a very specific lock. So, instead of a small molecule that may have a wide-ranging effect throughout the body, peptides are much, much more focused. So, you've got different types of Lego cubes here. Would they be different types of peptides or are they different types of amino acids that come together to make a peptide? >> The best way to think about it is my son loves Legos, which is why I'm glad that we have these here. But, he can take the same set of Legos and he can build a rocket ship. And then, just a few minutes later, he can build a pirate ship. And then, he builds a race car. He's using the same Legos, but he's creating very, very different things that all do very, different things. And so, peptides have become incredibly popular because, yes, we have some really fascinating peptides that can help with anti-aging, with healing, and with tissue repair. We're going to talk about some of those, hopefully. But, they can do so much more than that. The first peptide that was actually isolated and used in medicine was insulin back in 1921. And then, all the way in 1985, in the world of urology, which is where I was trained, we had Lupron, which is a different peptide that, again, also a peptide like insulin, but instead of having wide-ranging metabolic effects, it had an endocrine effect. It was designed to shut down the production of testosterone for prostate cancer patients that needed to have their testosterone taken away. Interesting. Okay, so insulin's a peptide. Insulin's a peptide. Because it's a series of amino acids. >> Amino acids that are put together. Okay, so you said that the combination of amino acids forms a key. So, what is the lock? The lock could be a cellular receptor. It could actually be regulating a certain pathway within the cell. Okay, so let me repeat this back to you to make sure I understand it. So, yes. >> Yes. Peptides are like a key, Yes. which you can make by configuring amino acids in a certain way, and there's different locks in our body that these keys can go into. So, if I take, you know, we've got some peptides on the table in front of us here. >> So, a good way to think about it is this. If you've got a hammer, right? Which is what a lot of small molecules are. Like you can do a lot with that, right? Like you could hammer in a nail. But if you try to use that hammer when you're trying to put in a screw, or you're trying to put together, you know, a table that you got from IKEA, it may not always end the way that you want to. And that's the problem that we have with a lot of small molecules. It's not that they don't do what we want them to. They do a lot of other things while they're at that job that can have significant negative side effects, which is why a lot of these small molecules actually don't make it all the way through the FDA approval process, because we find something, it does what we want it to but has significant safety concerns down the line. All right? Now, what we see with peptides, for example, I've got in my hand right now a little vial labeled, you know, BPC 157. This is probably one of the most popular peptides that we're talking about right now, because BPC 157 is a synthetic version of a naturally found peptide in the gut. But what this actually does is it enhances blood vessel growth in areas of injury. And it kind of makes sense, because if you think about it, our gut, our stomach, is really just this bag of acid that sits inside of our abdomen, and yet somehow you and I are here talking to each other and our bodies aren't eating themselves. Well, how does that work? Well, it's because we've developed a lot of really robust systems to encourage healing of the gastric lining. And so the idea is like, well, if this is one of the compounds that can help do that, it's been proven in multiple animal models. For example, they have completely transected the Achilles tendon in rats and then they transected transected so they've cut across the Achilles tendon. So not just a small injury that you or I might experience in the gym where we pull it or strain it, but actually surgically cut the Achilles tendon. And then they administer it to rats and they are healing spontaneously with administration of BPC 157. If you have an Achilles tendon injury and you're a rat, BPC 157 is one of the best things that you can ever have. Now, that is not a one-to-one translation to what we might see in humans, but as we talked about earlier with our point on safety, when they are studying BPC 157, we try to look for something called the LD1 or the LD50. How much can I give this to someone until 50% of the population that receives that dose doesn't do well or dies, okay? That's called the LD50 dose. We have yet to figure out what the LD1 dose is for this, which is the amount that it would take to hurt even 1% of the population because it is so incredibly well tolerated. So, just giving you an example of this is a compound that can have profound healing effects, at least in our animal models that we've seen so far, but so far we haven't seen any precipitous negative effects in human patients when taking this, okay? But we need more data. I am mind-blown and I'm very, very excited. We've got all of the several peptides here in front of us. I want to go through all of that and understand which ones do which things. >> Sure. But there's a bigger question here. >> Yes. Which is, why now? Why have the subject of peptides suddenly exploded into society's consciousness? What's going on? What's the big picture? So, this is really interesting. In 2013, there was actually a court case in the United States. It was the It was called Myriad Genetics case. This was the company that actually patented the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes. They discovered the genes that cause breast cancer, all right? This was mind-blowing. They identified the specific genes that would predispose patients to developing both breast, ovarian, and since we've learned also prostate cancer. It was a fantastic discovery, but they patented it. And they said, "We now own this intellectual property." And then everyone else said, "No, no, no, that's that's the human body. You can't patent that." And the Supreme Court actually sided with that argument, saying that if something is natural, it's found within us, okay? I can't patent, you know, your muscle cells, right? Which is a wonderful thing. But the unintended unintentional byproduct of that is all of a sudden pharma had no incentive whatsoever to pursue really promising compounds that they could not monetize. So, that happens in 2013. At the same time, I believe it was around 2012, 2013, there was a terrible event that happened in New England where there was a compounding pharmacy that was not doing the right thing, and they ended up having a bunch of contaminated specimens that caused a fungal meningitis. Bunch of patients got really sick. It was a huge scandal. And all of a sudden the FDA stepped in and said, "Hey, historically, all right, states have been allowed to regulate compounding pharmacies themselves, but we need some federal oversight here cuz this is not acceptable." Completely agree with that. And they introduced a new set of regulations on top of compounding pharmacies, basically saying what you can and cannot make. And what they eventually said is, "Well, the only you can only make three things. You can make things that are in the USP uh United States Pharmacopoeia, okay? Things that have been, you know, well described, already published, things that are already in drugs that are already on the market. Or three, things that are on a very specific list that we're going to give you, okay? And in that list, they actually included a lot of these very promising compounds that were stuck in drug development, you know, limbo. And you say compounding pharmacies. You said that a few times. What is a compounding pharmacy? Just just so I'm clear on the definition. Back in the 1800s or you know early 1900s, if you ever needed a medication, you'd go see the pharmacist who had a shop down the road and he would actually make your medication in front of you. And he would do that custom for every single patient that came by, all right? It was only since the advent of modern factories that we had the modern pharmaceutical industry come about. But the truth is is that again, you know, that's kind of paint by numbers. You're creating this one pill and you know, it always seemed kind of crazy that the adult dose is one standardized dose for all adults. Like if you look at what your body composition is versus some of my patients, why is the dose in your blood pressure medicine the exact same? Like that doesn't seem to be quite right, but it is what it is. So when patients fall outside of that and they need custom medication, we still have those people who make custom formulations of medications. But instead of it being just your local pharmacist who's using a mortar and pestle and you know, he's creating something in his back office, these are now large sophisticated industrial operations that can make custom formulations for patients. I think I think the important context Yeah. for people that don't understand how drug development occurs is that to get chemicals like the ones we have in front of us on the table through FDA approval, you've got to spend millions and millions and millions of dollars. Tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars. Yeah, an incredible amount of money. And And if you know you can't protect it once you spend a hundred million dollars, you have no incentive to just do charity work. Absolutely not, okay? Because you have shareholders and you have to make payroll. And so because drug development is so expensive, there's no incentive for commercial pharmaceutical companies to pursue the development of these compounds. And then on the other side of that, well we have compounding pharmacies that you know, for them it makes sense. What if we could just make these compounds and then sell them directly to patients? We make a small margin when we sell it. This makes sense for us. Well, they could do that starting in about 2014 whenever that legislation finished, all right? What did it do? Essentially what it did is it gave a it gave a assignment to each one of these compounds. It was either going to be category one, which is you can compound this. This is on our specific list of approved compoundable drug ingredients. Number two was, "Hey, we see some negative safety signals here. You cannot make this, okay?" Something goes in category two, it's forbidden. And then we have category three, which is we just need more information. And all of these original compounds, these peptides that we're so interested in now, were originally on that first list, category one, all right? And so, they were able to be compounded. We could prescribe them patients. I prescribe them to patients, all right? From 2014 onward. But then in 2023, the FDA at that time switched all of those peptides, 19 of them that were popular, to category two, and then they were banned. Overnight, we got notifications in our email inboxes from our compounding pharmacy partners saying, "Hey, we can't make this anymore. We're sorry." So, I've got two questions there. Um the first is when you were prescribing these peptides to your patient >> Yes. were you seeing incredible results? Very much so. Very much Again, you have to use the right key for the right lock, okay? But I think a really good example, all right? So, there is a compound that is not technically a peptide. It is a small molecule, but it was lumped in with all of these and was the victim to the same process. Uh something called MK-677, also known as ibutamoren. So, this is a small molecule, but when a patient takes it, it's orally available. It binds to this receptor called ghrelin, and it actually stimulates the release of significant growth hormone. But what was really interesting is that it would actually stimulate hunger a profound amount. And all of a sudden, patients that were struggling with cachexia, okay? So, being very, very thin, very malnourished, maybe they're going through cancer treatment. >> Ghrelin's the thing that makes us feel hungry. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, they were able to stimulate the hunger response, and patients were actually able to eat more to meet caloric goals. And so, this was a medication that was fantastically effective at that. Again, it had gone through some clinical trials, but was never taken all the way to commercial. And so, it was never going to be available from CVS or Walgreens, but you could get it from a compounding pharmacy. And so, that was one that made a big difference for us. We also had other peptides. So, GHRP-2 and GHRP-6 were some of the ones we were using at that time. Those are growth hormone-releasing peptides that stimulate the release of your body's natural growth hormone, which can help with tissue repair, can also help with fat loss, and with building muscle. We also had BPC-157, and we had derivatives like thymosin beta-4. These are also compounds that can help stimulate angiogenesis, so making new blood vessels, all right, and tissue repair. So, if we have a patient that's injured themselves, maybe we could help them get back at life faster. These were all things that were used very commonplace for many years, and truthfully, they weren't super popular at the time. We were just using them, and then they were banned overnight. And they were working. And they were working. And they were working, [clears throat] and we were not seeing adverse events, which is the most important thing. What's an adverse event? >> An adverse event is a patient has a terrible side effect. They call you, they have an allergic reaction to something. They call, they've got shortness of breath, and it's a direct result of the medication that you gave them. It was working. It was working, and by all accounts, seemed to be incredibly safe. >> And then they banned it. >> And then they banned it. Why? That's a great question. So, officially, what happened is there was a meeting where they brought together the experts at the time, and they said, "There is insufficient data for us to say that these are safe." Because again, they had not gone through the full FDA approval process. And so, as a result of lacking that data, we're going to say that they're too dangerous. Now, there wasn't any evidence of any of that in the population. These were widely used at the time. Potentially, we had commercial pharmaceutical companies saying, "Well, hey, this is people spending money on a compound, on something that isn't coming to us. So, hey, like we love medicine, but maybe only when it's our medicine. Mhm. And so, there's concern that that was at at play as well. And so, there is not a great paper trail, and there's not a great explanation why. And that's something that's been iterated by our current administration, from RFK himself. You know, he himself has characterized that move done in 2023 as being illegal. With everything you know about the medical industry, do you think it is plausible that big farmer 110%. didn't want 110%. these in the hands of regular people, because they can't patent this, and it's powerful. So, ultimately, the way to think about it is this. Um pharma may not have a compound that directly competes for BPC-157. BPC-157. So, this is the medication or the peptide that can aid with healing after an injury, okay? So, it's not necessarily there's direct competition, but at the end of the day, your average patient going throughout their daily life only has so much money that they can spend on medicine. Mhm. And [clears throat] $10, $15, however much money that goes to this doesn't go to a prescription drug from a commercial pharmaceutical company. And so, there is real concern that potentially that was at play during that decision. You said 110%. Yeah, I well, you know, it's interesting because you know, I try to walk a very fine line between what I can prove versus what I suspect after being in this space for a long time. And, [clears throat] you know, ultimately, you know, I don't think it's accurate to characterize pharmaceutical companies or really any other entity as being, you know, evil or or bad. The truth is maybe a little bit more ominous. The truth is is that they are these large machines that are designed to prioritize profit over everything. >> Yeah. And that's everything. I think this is one of the really interesting observations I've had the higher I've gone in my career is that often times here we heard about the Illuminati like when I was growing up I was like oh there's this Illuminati. >> Yeah. And you think of it as these like shadow hooded people that get together and decide evil things but at the further I've gone in business the more I've realized that the Illuminati or these evil forces are actually just machines that were designed to optimize for profit. >> Correct. Correct. So like corporations are the Illuminati. Yeah and so I don't actually think that there is necessarily you know a group of maniacal individuals you know the Legion of Doom you know plotting to like take away your health but at the same time I think that there are these large organizations that really couldn't care less about your health. You know they are prioritizing what's important for them and regular people just get caught up in the mix and what's challenging is that as a physician you know I took a Hippocratic oath you know I care about my patients and so those are the people that are in front of me every single day that are seeking to improve their lives to recover from injury. I have you know fertility patients that are just dying to start their family and I have patients that are suffering from hormonal imbalances that haven't felt right in years. I I treat erectile dysfunction in men that have been struggling for years after prostate cancer treatment. I mean these are people that are broken and hurting. You want to be able to help them and so I feel that as a very strong personal calling that I have to be the advocate for that patient both in the room whenever I'm treating them and taking care of them but also when I'm talking to others and I'm you know speaking out about these issues. Like I want access to these medications because I care about the patients who benefit from them. Sweden banned these peptides that we have here. Correct. >> And we're sat here two years after the ban I believe roughly two years after that ban. >> Yeah. And suddenly everybody's talking about peptides again. Yes. Why? What's going on? So I think what we're seeing is the forbidden fruit effect because this was banned and all of a sudden oh well why'd they ban it? Well they wouldn't have banned it if it weren't working right and we're also seeing the effect of TikTok and short form content being spread very rapidly very virally and that's been going on for 2 years now, combined with new emphasis from administration leadership and HHS and then RFK. What is the most incredible impact that you've seen peptides create in a patient? Oh my gosh, I have a best story for you. So, one of the most frustrating things about my practice is treating infertility in young men that have significant metabolic dysfunction. These are young men that have a low sperm count, right? So, they can't get pregnant because they just don't have the numbers to make it happen. And you're looking at them and they're morbidly obese, okay? They have high insulin resistance, all right? And their endocrine system has been damaged by that obesity. So, they don't have have low testosterone levels and their brain is not making enough of the signals to stimulate their testicles. Now, we have medications that we can use to help stimulate that to make more of that signal stimulate the testicles, right? But, really what is eating at them, what is causing this, is not that chemical imbalance. That's the the symptom. That's not the the problem, okay? And treating symptoms doesn't really get you very far. And so, I would have patients that I would take care of and we would never see a significant improvement in their numbers because losing weight is really, really hard, you know, regardless of all of the education and resources I try to give them. But, now we have peptides in the form of GLP-1 drugs like semaglutide and tirzepatide. And I just saw a patient last last week who increased his sperm count 10 times over and is now in a normal range because he's lost 100 lb due to using tirzepatide, exercising, and improving his diet. And he has totally changed his life. >> And that started with a peptide. Started with a peptide. So, I we've got lots of peptides on the table in front of you. We will go to the into them individually, but just can you give me a a high-level view of the types of areas in our health and life that these peptides can help with? So, So, talked there about infertility Correct. as a downstream consequence of the like weight loss and fixing the metabolic health. What are What other parts of the body the peptides touch? The best way to think about it is like this. So, peptides are almost like an app on your phone. So, imagine before we had apps. I'm old enough to remember trying to log on and do my banking online before we had apps and gosh, it was so painful, right? Like there were ways to accomplish things, but they were very inconvenient and a roundabout way. And now all of a sudden we have these apps on our phone that can do just about anything except fold your laundry, right? You know, there's some limits to it, but I mean really the sky's the limit from an electronic standpoint. And really that's what peptides are. So, the thing is is that we have peptides that can help you lose weight like the GLP-1 drugs. We have peptides that can improve skin quality like GHK-Cu. We have peptides that can help heal your gut like BPC-157, particularly effective in ulcerative colitis, which is something that's being investigated with the FDA's planned upcoming meeting on it. We also have peptides that can help with sleep and with recovering the gland in your brain that's responsible for melatonin and regulating your sleep-wake cycles. So, the question isn't, you know, what can peptides do? It's kind of, well, what can't they do? And if they can't do that yet, can we develop a peptide that can accomplish that task? And the answer is probably and simultaneously while there may be resistance from pharmaceutical industry in these peptides, the ones that were most interested right now, they have signed multi-billion dollar deals with other pharmaceutical companies that are involved in peptide development aided by AI to try and fast-track their own peptide products. Interesting. >> And so, we are going to see exponentially more of these products come down the pipeline from pharmaceutical companies in the form of commercial products. And it's worth saying that there was some significant news today. Correct. What happened today, but also what's going on? And just for anyone that doesn't know, it's April the 15th. Yes. So, today we got a really press release from the FDA saying that in July they are going to consider seven peptides for removing from category two back to category one. >> Legalizing them. Legalizing them, okay? And some of the heavy hitters from that list include BPC 157. Which is the one we talked about to do with like repair and injury. Absolutely, okay? And then we have the brother to that which is TB 500, this vial over here. This improves blood flow to an injured area. You could think of this as sending the soldiers, as sending the cells that are required for rebuilding that tissue matrix that was damaged by a tear or a cut, all right? On top of that, we're also getting something called KPV. May not have it here, but that is another peptide that has been linked to angiogenesis and tissue repair. We're also getting MOTS-c and you know, some people just will call it exercise in a vial. It improves your VO2 max and your exercise tolerance and by up regulating the energy pathway, basically making more ATP, the energy that we all use to move, it makes more of that available, all right? We're also going to get DSIP, epithalon, and C-max which are all peptides that affect cognitive function. So, improving thinking, like C-max is a great option for that. And then DSIP and epithalon both have roles in regulating sleep and recovery. Wow. Yeah, [clears throat] pretty wild. And I've got to say, how does So, some of them are becoming legalized, but even the ones that aren't legal right now, a lot of people are taking them anyway. Correct. So, my my question is, how are people getting them? Listen, I don't want to promote illegal drugs here. This is not that kind of But, I just want to know what's going on. No, this is Well, this is important to talk about, right? Cuz we have to understand like what's going on in the marketplace. The moment that these drugs were banned or these medications were banned in 2023, It's kind of like the United States experimented banning alcohol. It didn't go very well, right? All of a sudden, you know, they you know, the mob came around and we started, you know, seeing unregulated uh saloons and unregulated alcohol production and it was contaminated with all the stuff that you didn't want. And so like people were trafficking. Yeah, exactly. It's just it's not a good idea, right? And so what happened is we banned these and the gray market stepped in. And so these are companies that will sell peptides that have on the label for research use only, all right? And the idea is that that takes them out of the FDA's jurisdiction because they're not selling it for people to inject into themselves out of the FDA's hands. I'm just creating a vial of this magical juice that you can use for your rat, okay? That's the idea. We all know that's not what's really happening. But because there isn't any quality control, it's kind of like getting gas station sushi. Like yeah, you can do it, but you don't really know if it's sushi and it may not end very well for you. And so again, not saying that there aren't some people who have gotten good results with research use only peptides, but again, it's not standardized, which is why I think moving this back into the 503A compounding world is the best thing for everyone. Which is the legal framework. Okay, so how does one take a peptide? That's a great question. So what's interesting is that as we mentioned, you know, peptides are just made up of building blocks of amino acids. And you know, if you were to go make yourself a protein shake, you know, what is that going to look like from a Lego standpoint? It just looks like this, a handful of Legos in your hand, right? All sort of like ground up. All ground up in individual pieces, right? But the thing is is that your gut is designed to break up any sort of protein that you ingest orally into these little pieces. And so if you were to say, I don't know, drink some of, you know, this TB-500, your body wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and a piece of chicken cuz it would it would break it all apart. It'd break it all apart. Now, there are some very unique exceptions to that. There's a form of BPC-157 that actually is tolerated in the gut, but by and large the overwhelming majority of these have to be injected either subcutaneously or into the muscle, and that's usually a preference. Subcutaneous being my belly. >> Under Just underneath the skin. You know, as I tell patients, just pinch an inch, inject under the skin. We do that for a lot of other medications as well. >> Isn't that what this is? Yeah, so this is a prescription Mounjaro pen. So, Mounjaro is the brand name for tirzepatide, all right? Tirzepatide being the leading GLP-1 product right now from Lilly. So, this produces more weight loss per milligram than any other product that we've got out right now. Is this the mechanism in which people inject peptides? No, a little bit different. So, this is an auto-injector pen. And so, what you do is you're able to actually ratchet the dose there on the right side, and then you pinch an inch in your skin, and then push it up against and it'll auto-deploy. And so, there's nothing that you need to do. You don't have to learn how to drop medication and inject. Whenever you're administering peptides at home, especially for patients that have obtained them from research use only markets, they usually come in just little vials that need to be drawn up with a needle, okay? Now, the benefit of that is that you can do custom dosing, all right? But, the drawback is is that, well, you have to know how to calculate that and put it together. This may be the most controversial thing we have on this table. And by Pharma's estimate, it might be the most dangerous thing to their entire business model. Because this is tirzepatide, the exact same thing that you had in that pen. But, this is made by a high-quality 503A compounding pharmacy. And the reason why this is uh so controversial right now is because it offers an incredible amount of flexibility because what you have in your hand there is very standardized, and you administer it once a week cuz that's what's approved by interest. >> This is like the Ozempic thing everyone's been talking about. >> Exactly, right? But, think of that as paint by numbers, okay? You are This co- This section is this color, this section is that color, all right? Think of this as the thing you've got in your hand right now. Yeah, exactly. Just a vial of tirzepatide as being a having infinite permutations and dosing ability because you can draw this up with a small syringe and do microdosing. So, instead of one large dose once a week because what many patients will experience is they'll have a return of their hunger by the end of the week and they end up losing ground, you can actually, instead of doing a full dose once a week, you could do multiple mini doses throughout the week with this formulation and with this presentation of the medication. All right? But, the challenge is is that that is the benefit that allows us to be compounded by compounding pharmacies because they are able to provide something that is similar to what's in your hand, all right, but it offers more flexibility that may be the right choice for some patients. So, personal is personalization of medicine, okay? But, the challenge is is that if you spend however much money on this, you're not giving it to Lilly. And so, as a result, we have seen an unprecedented crackdown in the United States from the FDA in trying to shut down compounding pharmacies and prevent them from making these medications even though that ability to customize, the fact that this is not an exact copy of what's in your hand right now, should protect it under current legislation. But, there is now enough pressure from the powers that be and from lobbyists from both Lilly and Novo Nordisk that, which are the two companies that make the GLP-1 medications, that we're seeing Marty Makary, the FDA commissioner, has now tweeted more about cracking down on compounded GLP-1 medications than he's tweeted about diabetes or heart disease in his entire time in office. And just so I understand, I want to play this back to you to make sure I understand. >> Sure. In my hand here, I have tirzepatide on my left. >> And this is made by Lilly, which is a corporate company who's patented it so they can make lots of money from it. >> Correct. In In right hand, I have tirzepatide. >> Tirzepatide with niacinamide. With niacinamide. >> Yep. And this is not patentable. So, Lilly has a patent on the tirzepatide molecule in that formulation in your hand. Okay? >> [clears throat] >> And if anyone violates a patent, that can be pursued in US court. Yep. Patent law, right? But what's interesting is that Lilly and Novo Nordisk know that that's different in your right hand. It doesn't look the same. You can dose it differently. And they know that if they were going to fight that in court, it would cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. So, you know what's a lot easier? Calling your friend at the FDA and getting him to step on the competition so you don't have to. And then who's paying for that enforcement? It's not the lawyers that the pharma company is paying for. Uh it's the taxpayer paying for the FDA through taxes. And you seem to imply that this was actually better because you could take it in a more flexible dose. You could take a little bit, a lot. You can take it when you want, whereas this is kind of once a once a week. Well, I mean, you know, what is better, right? So, I like this option for many of my patients because it's flexible. All right? So, that is something that works for most patients. All right? But then then again, this works great for patients, too. Okay. But what you want is you want an ecosystem where you have choice so you can make the right choice for the right patient. For a lot of patients, they're going to do exceedingly well on this and there's so much data to support that. But I also have a lot of patients who get really ill after they do a large dose of Mounjaro or of GLP-1 men. And if we take that same dose and we just cut it into multiple doses within a week, we can avoid those side effects. So, you've told me that these peptides we have on the table in front of us can improve your skin, weight loss, muscle, energy, chronic illnesses. You talked about the cognitive upsides. And you talk about it very passionately. Yeah. So, one should ask you presumably you're taking some peptides. I am. Yeah. So, >> do you take? So, I will tell you that as of right now, the only peptide I'm taking is a small dose of tirzepatide, all right? Which is the one we were just talking about. >> Yeah. Because uh back uh couple of couple of months ago, I was probably close to about 240 or so, and I was into powerlifting, you know, I still am. But, you know, it's really great to be able to deadlift 500 lb, but then stairs become really hard when you're trying to walk up. You're like, I don't know. I kind of like uh being able to not take a break after two or three flights of stairs. And so, I was like, okay, all right, longevity is a priority of mine. I'm going to slim down a little bit. I was like, let me just try this for a little bit. And what I found is that it is incredibly potent and at a very low dose, very, very tolerable. Why didn't you take some of the others? Honestly, because right now there is not a legal framework for me to obtain them. And the truth is is that I want to be an example for my patients. And that's why I'm out here advocating that we get access to these peptides in a legal, safe way again, all right? And cuz it's it's the best thing for everyone. If they were legal, which ones might you consider? Oh, man, I will tell you this. As some like I I don't know how old you are, so even but I'm in my >> 33. 33? God bless you. I will tell you, once you get over 35, man, that is brutal, all right? I sleep on my neck in a wrong way, and I need like a freaking brace for like 2 weeks. And so, as someone who spends a lot of time in the gym, you know, working out, like you start to accumulate all these little aches and pains. And so, the idea of, for example, I have a very finicky right shoulder. If I try to do a really heavy bench and I haven't warmed up, I can tweak this, and it takes me out of the fight for at least a month, okay? And I have to do other things. You know, I would have killed at various points in time over the past 2 years to have had BPC and TB-500 to hopefully speed that sort of healing, all right? Um also, for example, I suffer from really bad uh rosacea. It flares constantly. >> What's that? So, just redness of the face, okay? That, you know, it makes me look like I'm sunburnt. And then I come in on the office on like a Tuesday and then my staff's like, "Oh my gosh, you got in the yard and do some work this week?" I'm like, "It's just my face." Um you know, for example, that's something that a lot of people have reported benefits from GH KCU from. So, again, another compound, another peptide that could be beneficial for a patient like myself. What about muscle mass and gaining muscle? Yeah, so that is an interesting misnomer because that has been a common selling point that you'll see on social media, but as of right now, the only peptide that you might construe that way would be this guy right here in my hand, IGF-1 LR3, okay? Now, IGF-1 LR3 is basically the longer-lasting version of IGF-1, which is the downstream effect of growth hormone. I'm sure you've heard of bodybuilders taking growth hormone to increase size and you know, lose fat. In higher doses, it can help contribute to muscle uh mass, all right? But truthfully, if you're trying to gain significant muscle mass, this is this is not the way to do it. And so, the right now, one of the things that peptides can't do for you is independently put on significant amounts of lean mass. You still have to go to the gym. You still have to go to the gym, believe it or not. And guess what? >> that's the end of the podcast. I I tell you and but something that blows my mind is that I have so many patients that think that they can just take testosterone and just put on muscle naturally. And it doesn't work that way. You might get a tiny little bit, but you still have to have stimulus. You still have to get in the gym, you still have to put the work in. And so, I tell patients that I am not a replacement for a personal trainer. I'm your doctor, you also need your personal trainer, and most of you need a nutritionist, man. And so, I'm lucky to work with some great people in the community who partner with me on that. But, you know, it's a it's a full court press when you're trying to get people to you know, live the highest quality life. What about some of these metabolic disorders and diseases in terms of like insulin Yeah. >> resistance. People in the data we see of the audience uh very interested to learn about insulin. I see that a lot in the comment section and a lot of at Yeah. So, how can if someone's struggling with their insulin levels or their you know their glucose response, how does these peptides help? Honestly, the best peptides for that right now are the GLP-1 drugs. Okay, hands down. Because what you're doing is you are slowing gastric emptying and so you have a slower absorption of that bolus of food that you've eaten, so your glucose doesn't spike. And so, as a result, that increases insulin sensitivity significantly. Now, again, you have to be [clears throat] careful about what peptide you're using for what. A lot of these peptides that boost growth hormone and boost, let's say, IGF-1, those can actually increase serum glucose and that may not be what you want if you are someone that is trying to work on your insulin sensitivity. And do any of these peptides come as like creams or as pills or anything like that? If you look online, you can probably find a version of everything. But if we're talking about actual legitimate formulations, the best example of a topical cream is going to be GHK-Cu. And this is interesting because this is a copper tripeptide that has been found to decrease in expression and concentration as we age. But when it is applied topically, it's highly effective. Topically, so putting on a cream on your face, all right? It's been found to be extremely beneficial in regenerating the quality of skin. So, complexion, all right? Increasing the amount of collagen and elastin, the things that we need to keep our faces taut and youthful, the things that people will pay lots of money to go get laser to get improvements. Not that it's a replacement for that, but that's a topical form that, believe it or not, you could go out and buy today because topical GHK-Cu is regulated very differently than the injectable form. Is it expensive? Usually. You know, growing up, I thought well, these sort of anti-aging creams were But but you're telling me that this has actually been associated with improving signs of aging. I will tell you this, when I was going through college and medical school, I was the biggest skeptic. Like I did not believe any of the health or wellness claims that we saw coming out at the time. And again, you know, that was at a time where we were getting bombarded with stuff about the Atkins diet and this, that, and the other. But then all of a sudden, you start having patients come back to you and they're testifying as the benefits they've seen from these things. You start to actually look at the biochemistry behind them and you're like, there's a lot of science backing this up. This isn't just mumbo jumbo. And so, believe it or not, yeah, there are creams that can slow the process of aging, at least from a visual standpoint, when it comes to your skin. I have yet to figure out anything that, uh, you know, makes me as energetic as I was in my early 20s, but you know, I'm working on it. But on that point of energy and cognition, if I wanted to become a better podcaster, >> Yeah. and you know, I sit here sometimes. Sometimes we do two in a day, which means I might sit here for hours. Once we do, I think a couple of times we've done three in a day. That's brutal. >> 12 hours of recording. But what would you recommend if I was trying to improve my cognitive performance? >> So, again, as a physician who likes keeping my license, I wouldn't say necessarily recommend, but I would say if we're looking at how these medications have been used, and potentially one that may be legal again coming this July, pending what the FDA says, intranasal C-Max. And this is one that was originally studied actually in Russia many years ago. And what they found is that this seven-amino acid peptide, when it was administered after a, uh, TBI, so a traumatic brain injury, all right, or acute injury, that patients tended to bounce back faster. Also, they saw evidence of it improving outcomes after stroke. And it also seems to upregulate the same sort of factors that help with cognition and with, you know, connecting sentences and bits of data in your brain. And so, it's also one of the, interestingly enough, one of the ones that is available, you know, intranasally, because it goes through the mucus membranes and gets right where you need it. And so, that's going to be a really, really fascinating, uh, compound to see back on the market, and then we can actually get more data regarding efficacy and, you know, across a wide population. So interesting. And you you you sniff that through your nose. >> Sniff through like like you would for any nasal decongestant, right? And if you have allergies or something like that. Also, for someone like yourself, you travel a lot. You know, you're going in between different time zones. You're balancing multiple obligations at different odd times of the day. I I shudder to think what your circadian rhythm looks like, my friend. Um but, you know, that is what we have some of these other compounds that are coming going to be available for. So, if we look at uh D sip, okay? That has been shown to be helpful with regulating your circadian rhythm. All right? That is one of the ones that's going to be approved, hopefully, here soon. Again, in July, right? And then, you know, on top of that, um you've got, you know, things like Selank, which is another one that can help calm you as you're going to sleep about an hour ahead of time. And again, hope help those, you know, deep delta wave brain waves that are so restorative whenever you actually are, you know, resting. Where will we be able to buy these when and if they are legalized? So, from >> [clears throat] >> uh 503A compounders here in the United States with a prescription from a physician. So, you still need a prescription? >> Still need a prescription, correct. Could be quite crazy world when everybody seem is going to be in injecting themselves every every day. I mean, we're already getting to that point now with this Empatic where I've got loads of people in my my friendship group that are Yeah. And they're Yeah, and they're doing great. Yeah, they're doing great. >> doing great. And that's what I like about, you know, the advent of these GLP-1s is they're removing the stigma of a needle. And I look at some of my friends who have been on it. I can't recognize them. They look awesome. Are you concerned with with any of them? You know, I've got a couple of friends in my circle where I'm I'm a little bit concerned. I I don't even know if I should be concerned, but it's just when you see someone you know change so dramatically so quickly, Yeah. I think there's something in us which something prehistoric in us which goes, "Oh my god, there's a problem." Yeah. One thing I'm I am concerned about is the rapid weight loss with GLP-1 medications. Because the problem is is that when you go into such a radical caloric deficit, your body goes into catabolism, which is breaking down tissue. And you want to break down fat, right? But your body isn't that judicious. It's going to break down muscle. And muscle is the most metabolically important tissue that any of us have. And so if you really want to optimize your insulin sensitivity, well, you need to maintain your muscle. And right now, really the only compounds that we have that are really good at preserving muscle with resistance training is testosterone, right? But that isn't going to be a good option for our male patients that want to get pregnant cuz testosterone turns off fertility in men, all right? It's also not a great idea for our female patients, all right? Depending on their age, testosterone TRT is a thing in older, you know, women, menopausal, won't go into that. But truthfully, testosterone is not the right answer for everybody. And so what we are going to see come down the pipe very soon is kind of the older brother of peptides, the more complex form, biologics, called monoclonal antibodies, that are specifically designed to inhibit the enzymes that break down muscle. So these are specifically called myostatin inhibitors. There are three that are coming down the pipeline. There is one called bimagrumab, which is owned by Lilly. That is going to bind to the peanut butter to myostatin's jelly, which is called activin. And then you have roledumab and trevogrumab, which are two other compounds owned by different pharmaceutical company that are all designed to maintain muscle even in a significant caloric deficit. This is getting interesting now. >> Yeah. Yeah. So you're you're telling me I'm going to be able to inject myself with this peptide to lose the fat and then inject myself with something else to keep the muscle. It's wild. It's wild. And and I'll tell you, you know, one of the hardest things that I'm sure you've heard being on the receiving end of this is just the complexity of it. And there are so many levers that are moving at once. And trying to get your head around it and balance it all. Like it requires nuance and it requires a thoughtful discussion with your doctor who is well educated on them. And that's one of the challenges is that there isn't broad great education on these products right now in the medical space. And so, that's something that I'm very passionate about is improving education across my colleagues so that they're not afraid of these anymore. What do you say to people who are listening to this now who are out, why don't you just like eat your greens and go to the gym? Yeah. And just be more human and you'll be fine. I love that. I love eating your greens and going to the gym, okay? Um but the unfortunate reality is that here in the United States uh it depends on what database you look at, but obesity rates are estimated to be 40 to 70%, okay? Whether you depending on what BMI cutoff you're using, okay? BMI's not perfect, but it is what it is. And so, the thing is is that well, eating greens and going to the gym are not working for us as a society. And we could talk about how we don't have real food anymore, we have food deserts, we have this nut- calorically dense but nutritionally poor food. I'll tell you the most disturbing thing I see as a surgeon is I'll see a patient come in the door and they're morbidly obese. They're a large individual, but I have to do surgery on them, but the connective tissue, the stuff that's made up of protein that makes them them that literally holds them together is paper paper thin because they're eating an incredible amount of calories, they're gaining fat, but they don't have any protein in their diet. And that's not something that's rare. I see that on a daily basis. And so, the truth is is that, you know, we're talking about this from the angle of biohackers and people that are super engaged in our health, but the truth is is that this is going to be able to be used to help our population at large and, you know, ultimately hopefully avoid a lot of the terrible disease states that we're seeing overwhelm the medical system right now. How big is the peptide industry right now? If we look at the top four large language models companies, all right? So, all the heavy hitters and how much revenue they're generating, it's estimated between be between 58 billion up to maybe 62 billion. Yet the income and the revenue from just semaglutide and tirzepatide alone is going to be over 55 billion this year. And so, what we have is peptides without even considering all of this happening in the research space or the research use only space. Without even considering the peptides that we'll see come from compounding pharmacies, we're already approaching parity with what we're seeing in AI as far as revenue goes. That is the demand that we're seeing in the marketplace. I run multiple companies that have multiple sales teams. And one of the things as a founder of a company that's often confusing is you find it hard to figure out where sales are. So, about 10 years ago, I started using Pipedrive in my former company, and it's also the reason why I switched over all of my commercial teams in my current media company called steven.com to use Pipedrive as well. Not only do they sponsor this show, but they've been an incredibly effective way of scaling our sales engine over the years. Pipedrive is an easy-to-use intelligent CRM, and at its very core, it makes your sales process visible through one dashboard, a visual pipeline showing every deal, what stage it's in, what needs to happen next, and it's all in real time with no delay. It doesn't magically close the deal for you, of course, but it does replace complexity with clarity. If you want to join over 100,000 companies already using Pipedrive, you can use my link for a 30-day free trial with no credit card payment needed. Head to pipedrive.com/ceo to get started. That's pipedrive.com/ceo. I'll see you over there. When your patients come and see you, Dr. Alex, what are they asking you most frequently as it relates to peptides? What are like the top three questions you get asked the most? The first thing I get asked is what peptides do I need? And then I just look at them. I'm like, well, what's your problem? You [laughter] know, like, what what's bothering you? And what do they say? You know, and then they'll come in and they'll start talking about energy, sex drive, and that sort of things. And I'm like, okay, if that's it, well, we need to check your testosterone levels, brother. Okay? So, instead of looking for peptides, right? You know, you don't walk into a Home Depot or a Lowe's, you know, and be like, "What tools do I do I need?" And you're like, "What are you trying to do, right?" And then you start to talk to someone there like, "Well, I'm trying to build this." Okay, you need a saw, you need a screwdriver, you need this. And some of those tools might be peptides, all right? But some of them may be hormones. You know, some of it may be diet and exercise. And so, peptides are just another type of tool that we can use. >> want a shortcut, though, doctor. We all want a quick way to to be better, and ideally not have to do hard work. That's like what most people, you know, the average person is looking for. And we hear about these peptides, we hear other people are taking them, we hear they're fantastic results in skin, hair, muscle, and we go, "Fucking, what about me?" You know what I tell patients? I'm like, "Me, too, man." You know, but my alarm still went off at 4:45 this morning so I could hit the gym before I made it to clinic because there are no real shortcuts. There are things that can help, right? GLP-1s are the best example of that, right? Okay, this is the closest thing to a shortcut you're going to get. But the truth is is that this isn't going to go to the gym for you, and it's not going to lift the weights so you can maintain that muscle mass so you get the best possible result. Try to hold on to your muscle while losing the fat. One thing I've learned from doing this podcast that that has really grown with me over time. People ask me all the time, like, "What's the one thing you've learned from the podcast?" One of the answers that I've never given that I'm going to give now is that I've learned that there's no such thing in life as a free lunch. No, >> [clears throat] >> absolutely not. And what I mean by that is like everything is a trade-off. And if you ever hear on a podcast or in any medium that something has tremendous upsides, the first question one should ask is what's the trade? And like just with everything, you can apply this to having a relationship with a partner. Huge upsides. Also, trade-off. Trade-off. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Kids, like I love my children. I haven't slept in years, right? >> [laughter] >> You know, like this is just this is this is life, right? There are trade-offs. And even with great tools, there are trade-offs. >> So, what are the trade-offs of these peptides? The biggest trade-off right now is you don't know if you're even getting what you're what you want, right? Because you're ordering this from some research, you know, compound only. You don't know whether or not they've gotten out all the appropriate endotoxins. You don't know if you're getting what you actually paid for. So, that's the biggest thing. And also, the thing is is that, well, all right, I these have a good example of, okay, preventing or helping heal injury. But, the thing is that, well, we've got other compounds over here, you know, let's go ahead and like let's just pull tesamorelin as an example. So, this is actually interesting. It's a peptide that is commercially available right now. I could write the script for you. You could go pick it up from CVS or Walgreens, okay? This is available as a commercial product. And people really like it because it'll help boost growth hormone, and it happens to be uniquely good at stripping abdominal fat, okay? Or visceral fat. But, the thing is is that, you know, the moment you stop taking it for a brief period of time, well, if you haven't changed anything about your lifestyle, you're going to go right back to where you were. >> It's good at stripping abdominal fat, belly The belly fat. This is what it's known for. Yeah. It's good at stripping belly fat. >> Stripping belly fat specifically. So, bodybuilders actually really like it for that particular application. >> [clears throat] >> I had no idea there was a a peptide for stripping belly fat. There you go, man. You know, and like for example here, we've got another one. So, this is melanotan II, right? So, this is a melanocortin receptor agonist. So, melanocortin's this what makes you tan, right? So, you could administer this, all right? And it will actually end up giving you a deep tan in response to just a little bit of UV sun exposure, all right? Now, I know, right? Um listen, I've embraced my pasty whiteness, so I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily my my bag, but it it's real. Now, again, there are some safety concerns with this because again, could that potentially stimulate a melanoma or something like that? But, this is something again, it's a peptide that gives a wildly different result than tesamorelin, right? Because it's a different application. >> It does. Yeah, it does. It'll also give you um some of the most impressive erections you've ever had in your life, so uh be warned. Um >> Wait, it's literally turning you into A BLACK GUY. >> [laughter] >> FINALLY. YEAH, RIGHT? AND IT'S WILD. SO, there's actually and there's even a derivative of melanotan II called PT-141 uh bremelanotide that is a commercial product right now that you can write as a prescription, okay? But it that doesn't have the tanning benefit, but has the sexual, you know, benefits. Oh, wow. Yeah. Keep those ones over here. We have to talk about this. Another really interesting thing that phenomenon that we've seen, right? Is that now we've got all of these companies that are making these research use only compounds, right? It used to be that you would have a compound that's in drug development and you're seeing all the advertisements for it, you know, maybe if you follow these sorts of things like I do cuz I'm a nerd, right? You get excited about it, but you don't get access to it, right? Well, believe it or not, the next blockbuster drug that Lilly is going to come out with probably in the next couple of months is this guy called retatrutide, all right? And retatrutide is fantastic in that it is the first three receptor agonist GLP-1 drug. So, the GLP-1 drugs, okay? Whenever you're talking about semaglutide and tirzepatide, they have slightly different profiles. >> This is the Ozempic category. Correct, right? So, GLP-1 is the primary receptor that they work on and what that will do is it slows gastric emptying and it limits caloric intake, all right? But then in tirzepatide, not semaglutide, but tirzepatide is a dual agonist. So, it has effect on GIP, which is a different receptor. Well, retatrutide adds in glucagon receptor activation. And so, believe it or not, your liver actually acts like a repository of energy where it stores glycogen and fat that your body can use as energy. But that's a problem, right? If you get too much fat there, if you have a caloric excess, then you can end up having what's called NASH cirrhosis, but non-alcoholic steatohepatitis. Basically, inflammation of your liver due to accumulating too much fat. It's a problem. But by stimulating the glucagon receptor while simultaneously hitting GLP-1 and GIP, what we found is not only do patients lose an incredible amount of weight, but they also get the best improvements we've ever seen in their liver liver health that we've ever seen. And people have been buying that from research use only websites and using it for about 2 years now. And bodybuilders have already made this the standard in their protocol when it comes to cutting for a show. And it is wildly effective. And we're now seeing the population using a drug at scale that hasn't even made it through commercialization yet. What are you smoking? You using it? No. >> [laughter] >> I have not I can honestly say I have not used Retta. But I find it fascinating though. It's absolutely wild. Yeah, and talk about power to the people, right? What about these others then? What else have we got here that you think's interesting? >> So, um we've got these two here that I think are really interesting. So, CJC-1295 and Ipamorelin. So, the whole idea is that, you know, can we stimulate growth hormone? And there's an interesting story behind that. You know, actually growth hormone itself was very very popular for many many years as an anti-aging compound, but then we changed some laws here in the 19 in 1990, okay? That made it a little dicey to prescribe growth hormone. And also, you know, it's kind of a blunt instrument. We wanted something to stimulate more natural growth hormone release. So, we have this entire class of medications called secretagogues that help stimulate natural growth hormone release. And these are two of the most potent ones that are often combined together. And when we say growth hormone Yes. what does growth hormone do? So, growth hormone acts like a signal that tells your liver to make more of another compound we talked about, IGF-1. What growth hormone does is growth hormone actually stimulates building muscle, okay? It also strips fat, okay? And it's also been found to help with tissue healing. Okay. And so, there's a significant benefit in that regard. And so, people want to boost their growth hormone. Improves quality of skin, improves quality of hair and nails and that sort of thing. And so, these two compounds together are particularly potent. CJC-1295 being a growth hormone-releasing hormone derivative. And then we have Ipamorelin, which is a ghrelin receptor agonist. So again, release improving the release of growth hormone through two different synergistic mechanisms. And so, that one is really really interesting, or these two together. And then, on top of that, so this one, somatotropin, another word for growth hormone. Okay, so this is growth hormone, okay? Just a different word for it. So, what would happen? Let's just take this one. Sure. Somatotropin. Yeah. Somatotropin. Yeah. If I bought this for research purposes, Research purposes only. and I started injecting some of this into me, what would change? So, it depends on how much you do and when you do it. So, the idea is that if you injected that at night, it would improve your quality of sleep, okay? You would get a boost in your quality of your hair, your skin, nails. Theoretically, it'd be easier for you to recover from injuries, hopefully put on a little bit more muscle a little bit easier, maybe lose a little bit of fat. So, why don't I take it? Well, because if you take a little bit too much, you can actually get insulin resistance because your glucose levels will go too high for too long, all right? You abuse too much for too long, you will actually get acromegaly, so that's development of the your bones continue to grow, but not alongs, only in certain junctures. And so, there's a very specific look that bodybuilders who abuse growth hormone at high amounts will get to them, all right? Which is an irreversible change to the facial bone structure. You can also, theoretically, if you had a cancer, maybe it could make it worse, all right? We've never shown it that it causes new cancers, but that could be a concern. And, you know, on top of that, it could give you insulin resistance because, Okay. you know, you're again, Yeah, exactly, right? Um, and if you take too much, it could potentially make your hands numb in the morning because you get effusions into the joint space. And so, bodybuilders will talk about lifting a dumbbell and having to drop it because their hand goes numb temporarily if they're taking too much growth hormone too soon. And what else have we got here? Oh my gosh. So, epithalon, so this is the medication that is theoretically going to be available to us in July, okay? And so, uh the hope is that, you know, this is going to uh expand cell life. So, epithalon, the uh purpose of it is it works to enhance uh telomerase. So, at the end of your cells, imagine it this way, you're trying to copy the genome, but the little copier that uh copies it, it takes up space enough itself, so it's kind of like it cuts off the last couple letters every single time. This is when you're aging, right? When you're aging. You're creating new cells, right? Cells divide through this process called mitosis, where they split, all right? Well, if you got to make an exact copy, well, you've got to read through all these lines of code, but because of the way that we're built, we always end up cutting off the last little bit of code. Which is what how we age. Which is how we age. It is one of the things that contributes to aging, all right? Now, that is considered to be {quote} {unquote} junk information. It's at the very end called the telomere, all right? But, we know that shorter telomeres are associated with aging, potentially worse health outcomes. Then, there's an enzyme that can help heal or repair the telomere called telomerase. Epithalon helps encourage that. And so, some people are looking at that as being one of the fountain of youth uh compounds. I'm very skeptical as far as that goes, but it does show some benefits when it comes to uh you know, healing parts of your brain that are, you know, associated with uh regulating your circadian rhythm. So, the average person listening now, they've heard a lot of stuff about a lot of things. How do they know if they should pursue getting and taking peptides? Like, how do they know? What are they looking for? So, what I will say is that think of peptides as falling into three categories, all right? You got category one, which are peptides that you can prescribe right now, legal from, you know, a commercial pharmacy. That includes the GLP-1s, PT-141, uh bremelanotide I mentioned to you earlier, oxytocin is another one. We have these different compounds that are available. And then we have what we call category two, which we don't have anything in right now, but that will consist of the seven peptides that are hopefully going to be approved in July whenever they get moved from category two cannot compound to category one can compound. All right? And then everything else is kind of in this category three where it's only available for research use only. And so my recommendation for patients is don't go out and buy research use only compounds. All right? You don't know what you're getting and you don't know if you're dosing it right, you don't know if it's contaminated. So really what the public should be doing is educating themselves on this and then going and talking to their doctors about what problems they have and then potentially when those options become available a peptide might be part of the answer for their problem. Okay, so speak to doctor. Yeah. Consult with your doctor. And make it a convers- conversation with whoever your medical professional is about your symptoms and what might be useful and what the range, the toolbox, the options are Correct. To attack those symptoms. Yes. Absolutely. Talk collaborate with your doctor. Your doctor should be your partner in you getting as healthy as humanly possible. We talked about um trizepatide, Ozempic, semaglutide. One of the questions that's front of mind for everybody whether they're taking them or watching others take them is what happens when you stop. We've looked at that. You actually regain the weight. And so cuz the truth is is that you have introduced something into your life that has moved the needle in one direction. But if you don't change anything else, well, you take that back out. Well, you're going to go back to where you were. And so if you're going to maintain that weight loss, you have to make lifestyle changes associated with that. And what we found is that people do regain if they do make lifestyle changes, they do regain some of the weight but not necessarily all of the weight. And there's also data showing that you could potentially stay on that medication but at a much lower dose and then maintain your weight, okay? So there are options to minimize your medication burden long term. And of all the things we've talked about today, if you had to just pick one thing that excites you the most that's either coming down the pipe or here already, Yeah. what is the thing you're most excited about? I I your eyes wondering. >> Uh hands down it's that one over there, retatrutide. Because the changes in body composition that we have seen both in clinical trials, okay, and in anecdotal reports from users who have obtained on their own are wild. We're talking losing 20 to 25% of total body weight within a relatively short period of time. And I think that this is going to be basically the Ferrari of GLP-1 medications when it comes out. It's not for everybody, right? It's going to go faster than everything else, but it's going to change the game. I think this is going to be a trillion-dollar drug when it comes out. And no one's going to own the patent, so everybody will be able to access it. Is that right? No, no, that is going to belong solely to Lilly. And so you are going to see and they are going to enforce it, you know, uh, as aggressively as they've ever enforced anything. But you will see profound results in patients. People are referring to peptides as Silicon Valley's miracle drug. And I I wondered why that was, why it's been associated with Silicon Valley. Have you heard that at all? I have and I'll tell you I've seen some, uh, peptide stacks from, you know, Silicon Valley, you know, uh, founders and, uh, you know, uh, individuals that blow my mind. I'm like, oh man, even I think that's a lot. Why would peo- people in Silicon Valley, why would founders be interested in peptides? Well, I think it's because we all want to live our, you know, best version of our own lives, right? We want to perform at the highest level. And so, you know, people will do whatever they can. They'll drink caffeine, you know, they'll, you know, pop a Zyn in their mouth, you know, and they'll try to tweak whatever variable they possibly can to get the best possible performance. And thing is is that anabolic steroids come with, you know, significant side effects. And that's not everybody's cup of tea, right? And the health consequences from high-dose androgens dwarf anything that you might experience with peptides. And so peptides offer a lot of flexibility in pulling many different levers that are interesting to like your regular average, you know, person. And honestly, you know, it requires a little bit of DIY right now because of the nature of these peptides. And, I think you combine that with the kind of rogue, you know, uh founder uh spirit that is common in Silicon Valley, and I think it's a perfect fit. I asked you a second ago, what are the three questions that people come to you and ask you as as a doctor? The first one as it related to peptides was, which peptide should I be taking? Yeah. Are there any other questions we haven't covered off that are commonplace in your practice? The second one is, you know, can you prescribe me? And then I have to explain to them the regulatory environment, you know, surrounding peptides that, you know, as of right now, the only peptides that I can prescribe are the ones you can get from CVS or Walgreens, which is going to be your GLP-1 medications and a handful of others that usually aren't applying to the young men that I see in my practice. I've had so many founders speak to me and say, why didn't this particular ad that I ran on this platform work for me? Maybe the copy wasn't good, the creative wasn't strong, but usually the problem is they're not having the right conversation because that ad never reached the right person. And if you're in B2B marketing, that is much of the game. And this is where LinkedIn ads solves that problem for you. Their targeting is ridiculously specific. You can target by job title, seniority, company size, industry, and even someone's skill set. And their network includes over a billion professionals. About 130 million of them are decision makers. So, when you use LinkedIn ads, you're putting your brand in front of the right people. And LinkedIn ads also drive the highest B2B return on ad spend across all ad networks in my experience. If you want to give them a try, head over to linkedin.com/diary. And when you spend $250 on your first LinkedIn ads campaign, you'll get an extra $250 credit from me for the next one. That's linkedin.com/diary. Terms and conditions apply. We have finally caved in. So many of you have asked us if we could bundle the conversation cards with the 1% diary. For those of you that don't know, every single time a guest sits here with me in the chair, they leave a question in the Diary of a CEO, and then I ask that question to the next guest. We don't release those questions in any environment other than on these incredible conversation cards. These have become a fantastic tool for people in relationships, people in teams, in big corporations, and also family members to connect with each other. With that, we also have the 1% diary, which is this incredible tool to change habits in your life. So many of you have asked if it was possible to buy both at the same time, especially people in big companies. So what we've done is we've bundled them together, and you can buy both at the same time. And if you want to drive connection and instill habit change in your company, head to the diary.com to inquire, and our team will be in touch. Is there a super peptide for anti-aging in skin and some of those issues? Oh, for skin, GHK-Cu. GHK-Cu? Yeah. So this is, you know, probably the most well-known peptide for uh use for skin complexion, and I mean, really, it may have some small benefits when it comes to hair, all right? But the those reports are a little bit more spotty. Okay. Yeah. And then so outside of the world of peptides for a second. Yeah. I've got these three vials in my hand. I'm so scared. All right. Do you know what those are? Oh, yeah. Uh this is unfortunately our future if we're not careful. Explain. So, you know, what we've got here is we have uh three different uh canisters containing water that has a a little bit of coloring in it. And what you can see is that all the way back in 1973, this is pretty opaque, all right? Like, you know, this is not uh what you would You can't see through it. And then 2026 has a little bit of color to it. And then we've got over here 2045, which is totally uh clear. Uh and this unfortunately is actually representing the fertility trajectory for young men, because what we're seeing is that back in 1973, total modal sperm count, so how many healthy swimming sperm do we have in each ejaculation, is exponentially higher and more dense than what we're seeing today. And so what we're seeing is a progressive decline in male fertility over time. And that's been demonstrated in multiple studies. We've debated this at multiple meetings. People have tried to argue that it's a measuring difference, but as we give it more time and as we give it more scrutiny, this is real. We're experiencing a significant decline in uh sperm quality and motility and concentration. >> [clears throat] >> Why? So, the leading culprits are going to be, yes, microplastics and environmental toxins. Okay, things that are put in our environment that we have been exposed to that we can't help. But again, the biggest modifiable risk factor is insulin resistance and metabolic disease. Obesity. >> Obesity. And so, a downstream effect that we may see from peptides like we discussed before is we may be able to help reverse this for the first time in history by trying to prevent the development of metabolic disease. Using some of the peptides we talked about earlier. Exactly. I gave you the example of a patient that I saw in clinic this past week that increased his sperm count 10 times over. Imagine if we had given that to him before he even got that obese, when he just started to get a little bit overweight and at a lower dose. Well, he may have never ended up in my office, right? Because his primary care doctor would have identified that, treated it, and he never would have needed the specialist. Mhm. It's crazy. It's wild. So, ultimately, you know, if you look at what are the ills that are affecting healthcare in, you know, any first-world nation, the number one offender is metabolic disease and metabolic dysfunction. And this is something that was actually hinted at, you know, by, you know, RFK whenever he was talking about uh root cause of disease. Well, yes, we have many many diseases and many many infections that don't stem necessarily from insulin resistance, but if we look at cardiac disease, if we look at issues with lack of perfusion, my my specialty, erectile dysfunction, right? We look at cancer. All of this is related back to obesity and metabolic dysfunction. And so, if we can eliminate that, you know, as a society or we can minimize it to as little as possible, well, I mean, man, maybe I'd finally work myself out of a job. Your specialty is these erectile dysfunction. Yeah, so my specialty is this branch off of urology that we broadly call men's health, okay? And so, what that incorporates for us is going to be low testosterone, advanced hormone management. I take that a little bit further than most people. That's totally cool. And then also uh erectile dysfunction, Peyronie's disease, which is damage to the penis that causes curvature, and then uh male fertility on top of that. And I do a little other thing uh treating leakage after uh prostate cancer treatment. And that's basically it. like five things maybe, and you know, that's it. So, I'm very very specialized because I was the kid that, you know, like to take my sandwiches apart and eat it one at a time. I was very precise. And I figured, you know, you can do a lot of things in this world and be okay at them, or you can pick like, I don't know, four or five and get pretty good at them. So, that seemed to work for me. I was looking at a at a photo of you of you 5 years ago and you were very different. Yeah. You've changed a lot. So, I will I will tell you this. Um medical training >> [clears throat] >> in the United States has gotten better. But it is grueling. It's absolutely grueling. For 5 years, I worked anywhere from 80 to 100 hours a week in a hospital. No eating, very little sleep. Did not care for yourself at all. Um and again, we can argue whether or not that's necessary all day long. But the truth is is that it really beat me down. It absolutely took me apart physically and psychologically. In part it's designed to do that cuz the idea is that as a surgeon you have to be able to perform when all the lights are on, when everything is against you, you have to be the one to hold it together in the operating room and command that ship and save that patient. And I remember being totally devastated towards the end of training. And I did a very challenging surgery on a very needy patient. Gentleman was about to go into renal failure, did not have a lot of kidney left. And he had a very challenging kidney tumor that was in a very treacherous location. It was in a location where he should have lost that kidney by all measure if we were going to take out that cancer. And he was at a county hospital, he had no insurance, you know, and we swung for the fences and did a very, very challenging operation on him. And against our best efforts with having everybody there, he ended up having a bleed postoperatively that night. And I remember getting the call, I was on call, and that his blood pressure had dropped and that he did not look well and I knew exactly what it was because again this was a very treacherous surgery. And I went in in the middle of the night with my attending who was a different attending than the one I did the initial surgery with. And I remember just opening him up and just being covered in blood that we were taking out of the abdominal field, that we were evacuating, eventually identifying the area of the bleed, and there was no way that it could have been avoided. I remember my attending yelling at me and we ultimately had to take that guy's kidney. And I remember walking out of there just being totally shattered, covered in blood, crying in a hallway by myself, wondering if you know, like what what was the point? Like is there going to be a Is there a tomorrow after this? Like I spent all this time in this training, like am I good enough? Am I going to be able to make this? And, you know, I wasn't well put together, wasn't healthy, uh and I ended up spending a lot of time with that patient, literally held his hand throughout the rest of his hospital stay. And he ended up recovering uh and against all odds. But, you know, afterwards, I took a strong interest in not only taking care of my patients, but also practicing what I preach, taking care of myself, and prioritizing my own health. I got evaluated. I was diagnosed with low testosterone myself. Turns out not eating or sleeping for 5 years will do a number on you, you know. >> his old stress? Through the roof, 24/7. I cannot even imagine what, you know, there's a part in the brain called the hippocampus that they when they do MRIs on soldiers that come back from war, that'll be degenerated in them. I wonder if we did that in surgical trainees, what that would look like. But, I made a commitment to take care of my patients, to take care of myself, and make that a priority, and to be, you know, simultaneously the best doctor and you know, the best father and you know, husband I could be. Not perfect, made a lot of mistakes along the way, but you know, what you're seeing from 5 years ago is where I was, you know, I've been in training now for 7 years, so it took a while to kind of recover from that. But, what you're seeing is, you know, what focusing on health and wellness can potentially look like. The emotion in you is palpable when you talk about this. And I'm wondering where that comes from. What is it? Cuz you're looking off into the distance at something. I don't know what you're looking at. Yeah. I mean, I when I'm caring for my patients and I see a young man that is struggling with his fertility and he wants to be a father. I was that guy. Me and my wife couldn't get pregnant when we first tried. We ended up having to do in vitro fertilization and IVF. I remember feeling like I wasn't a man because I was sitting in that room holding her hand and not having any answers to why things weren't working. Um when I see my patients who come in that are, [clears throat] you know, struggling because their hormones are out of whack and no matter how they try to take care of themselves, something just isn't clicking. I've been that guy. And then when I see my other patients, you know, that are further on in life and struggling with things like, you know, prostate cancer or erectile dysfunction, whatever the case may be, I see like I see my my my father, my uncle, my grandfather. I like these but and they are someone's father, grandfather, and uncle. Like these are our brothers and this is who I have been called to care for. And I care for my patients deeply. And it's because I care for the my patients and like this is a calling for me that I care about stuff like this because I want my patients to have every tool physically possible to live their best quality of life so that they can be whole and they can be happy and so that they can be the best version of themselves for their loved ones. Well, thank you for caring. Cuz it matters. And uh a lot of this stuff is quite opaque and confusing to an average person like me, but it's going to I'm so glad that we have people like there in the world like you that are demystifying all of this for us and explaining it in simple terms, but also championing it because, you know, one of the thing other things I've learned from listening to this podcast is solutions to problems that a lot of people are suffering with are often right in front of us, but they need voices and educators like yourself out there um leading the charge so that these types of things are available to everyone, not just the few. Absolutely. Not just the billionaires who can get whatever they want straight away any day. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a one thing I I love is that I've I've been very blessed in my practice to take care of people that are much fancier than I am and sit in boardrooms and that sort of thing. But, you know what? I love taking care of my my regular patients who are, you know, farmers, ironworkers, you know, tradesmen, guys that, you know, truthfully, I have more in common with than anyone else. You know, I joke with my patients, I'm just an over educated plumber at the end of the day, right? Urologist. And so, um it's uh health is for everyone, not just for the fortunate. The last thing I wanted to talk to you about is linked but random. Yes. It's the Enhanced Games. Let's do it. >> [laughter] >> I I am so excited about these. So, >> Do you know them? I do, very well. So, for those of you or for for those who may not know, the Enhanced Games is a project based off of the World Anti-Doping Agency's own data. Potentially up to 40% of athletes that are competing at the Olympic level have either are currently using or have used banned substances at some point in time, all right? And also, we know that a lot of the compounds that are used for enhancement maybe aren't quite so dangerous if they're being administered by a trained medical professional with proper oversight. And as of right now, that's not happening. Also, at the same time, we know that Olympic athletes aren't paid enough, right? These are the best of the best of the best and they're not even making the poverty line a lot of years. And so, the idea is this, well, what if we go ahead and we strip away those rules, okay? We allow athletes to use medications that can enhance performance. We watch them very closely and we have a team of doctors and medical medical professionals watching them. And then, let's see what they can do at these traditional Olympic events and see if they smash world records. Oh, and they're going to give 250 grand to any first place winners and a million dollars to anyone that hits a world record. And just for comparison, how much are Olympic athletes getting paid? They don't get paid to compete at all, okay? So, they don't get paid to be an Olympic athlete. They uh end up getting sponsorship deals and that's potentially the money that they can make. So, yeah. Interesting. So, it's [clears throat] basically the doping Olympics where everyone's allowed to dope. That's the idea. There are some caveats in there. They're trying to say that only FDA approved medications can be used, okay? So, you couldn't use something like trenbolone, which is for veterinary use only, um or theoretically any of the compounds we've talked about today cuz they're not FDA approved. But also at the same time, they've said that they're not going to test for those things and one of their athletes uh Magnusson has openly admitted to taking BPC 157 and that sort of thing. So, I think we can kind of figure out that it may just be a wide open playing field, maybe. So, The International Olympic Committee does not pay athletes a single cent for winning a gold medal. Yep. Just crazy. How many billions do you think they make off of those with all the advertisement? So much money. Right? Yeah. And this is taking place in Las Vegas. May 21st through the 24th, I believe. Are you going to go? I'm going to be watching, that's for sure. Do you want to go? I would love to go. That would be incredible. Well, if you want to go, I know a few people that are that are putting the event on, so do let me know. I'm there, man. I'm already interested. You got my got my attention. Is there anything else we should have talked about that we didn't talk about as it relates to this subject we've discussed today? I mean, honestly, I think that we've gone pretty deep on peptides and so I think we've, you know, uh covered uh that. But one thing that I did want to just uh leave with you cuz I think it's pretty humorous. I think you've talked to some of my colleagues about this before. But, you know, one of the things that I deal with as a surgical specialist is the end stage of vascular disease, the end stage of diabetes, which is going to be erectile dysfunction, all right? And, you know, believe it or not, whenever we're dealing with that in male patients, they eventually get to a point where things like Viagra and Cialis do not work. All right? And that is a dark place to be as a guy. And so, you're taking these medications, all you're getting is a headache and nothing else. And then, maybe you have other options. There are actually injections you can do in the penis, which is about as appetizing as you might imagine. But, men want a better solution, and they'll come to us as sexual medicine specialists, you know, seeking that. And that's what I do. So, the bulk of my surgical practice is actually fixing erectile dysfunction with a procedure called implant placement, okay? >> Oh, no. Absolutely. So, now, I think did Rena show you one of these last time? She brought out I didn't I didn't ask her. It She It makes me like I get full body shudders when I hear about this stuff. Yeah. The thought of putting that up my penis. Well, so You can show me. No, you can show me. Well, I would tell you the good news is you don't have to, okay? Like, that's that's what what we have a job for, okay? But, the way I explain to patients is like this. So, take this out of out of the picture, okay? Ultimately, like the male erection is just two inflatable tubes that start in the pelvis and go out the shaft of the penis. It makes sense, right? It is a hydraulic motion. What happens is you get stimulated, get a rush of blood into those tubes, get a rigid erection, able to use that for intimacy, and then when you climax, pop-off valve opens back up and everything drains out, all right? So, if you can understand brakes on a car, you can understand erections. But, the problem is that when you have long-term metabolic and vascular dysfunction, the brake lines, the blood vessels that feed those erections, they fail. And all of a sudden, you can't get enough blood flow for it to work. And believe it or not, you can actually get atrophy of the penis over time, and you actually lose size, all right? Which no man is eager to see, all right? But, whenever the easy things, like oral medications, Viagra and Cialis, don't work anymore, the next best option, if we're looking at patient satisfaction, durability, concealability, is this little thing that I do, which is what if we took our own tubes, okay? And we put them inside your body's natural ones. It's invisible. Nobody looking at you could ever tell that you've ever had anything done. But all of a sudden when you want to get an erection, instead of having to rely on pills that don't work or putting a needle in there, right? You could reach down and there's a small pump that we hide underneath the skin down in the scrotum. Okay, so I joke it's like a third testicle, but again, nothing external, nothing you can see. And all of a sudden, whenever you squeeze this, what it does is it moves saline that we hide in a little reservoir that goes in the belly. You never feel that. Into the cylinders and all of a sudden men are able to get a firm, rigid erection that looks natural, feels natural, and they can use it as long as they want or until their partner's sick of them. And then press a button and it goes back down. Do they still feel the same pleasure? Yeah. So it does not affect sensation. And so the nerves that affect sensation run along the top of the penis. If you're looking at a clock, at the 12:00 position, and we stay totally away from those. So this is surgically put inside the penis. All internal. And believe it or not, that takes me about 13 minutes to do. How many people have these? Well, uh I've put in about 11 or 1,200 personally, but >> 1,100 or 1,200? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> quite a lot of people. There'll be people listening now that have these. Well, you know, this is what's interesting. If you look at in the United States right now, okay, there are 30 million men with erectile dysfunction in the United States right now. That's more than the population of Australia, all right? >> And if you look at statistics, the oral medications are going to fail in 15% of those men the first time they feel that. And so you're talking about millions and millions of men who aren't responding to oral medications and need a better option. So where's the button to get rid of the erection? >> those two little bars right there? These two? Yep, go ahead and put your thumb on I yep, do that and then squeeze from the end of the device back towards the pump. So squeeze squeeze. Yep. Right there. There you go. It's down. And then you would have the weight of your natural tissue push things down. Okay, and then you Okay. There you go. Okay. Hm. Okay. Well, you know, I'm I'm happy people have the options because I can imagine what that would be like to not be able to get an erection. It would be devastating, frankly. Well, I'll tell you this. I get more hugs and high fives than anybody else in my practice, and that includes the guys that treat kidney stones and cancer. So, I feel like I'm doing some doing some good work here. >> Until peptides put me out of business. >> [laughter] >> I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. And you have a great YouTube channel. Thank you. I appreciate that. >> Which I think everybody should go check out because you really are great at at explaining all this stuff in simple terms. So, I'm going to link uh Dr. Alex's YouTube channel down below. We'll try and collab. So, if you just click on the Drive for CEO icon now, you'll see Alex's channel. And I highly recommend you go check out his content cuz he's really really leading the charge on the subject of peptides. When I spoke to my team and said I want to have a conversation about peptides, they gave me lots of options of lots of different types of doctors, and uh you were by far and away uh our preference because of the very fact that you're very very good at communicating. You understand people. And as you've demonstrated today, you have a very big heart. I appreciate that. >> And you're clearly it's it was wonderful to see what's actually driving you. Um and you did that in a way which um is irrefutably authentic. So, please go check out Alex's channel. Um he's around You're around 100,000 subscribers on that channel now? Um so close. We're at like 98, 99. Any minute now. Okay. So, hopefully we can help push you over um that that milestone. Yeah. We have a a closing tradition, Alex, on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next, not knowing who they're leaving it for. Okay. Question left for you is if you could give $1 billion to one person you don't know personally, who is it and what do they have to spend it on? Uh Honestly, I would give it to Elon Musk. Okay. And it's not because I think that he's hurting for a billion dollars right now. But, if you look at what he is working on to accomplish for us as a human race, right? He I truly believe from what I've seen that he has a similar heart for humanity that I've seen with a lot of physicians, but on a macro scale as an engineer and an entrepreneur, he's trying to solve some of the greatest problems that are facing us today. And I think that what we are going to see, hopefully coming from the uh Terafab down in Austin, is going to be wild with recursive uh feedback and engineering on AI chips that are going to get better and better and better in a short period of time and increasing, you know, independence when it comes to, you know, chip foundries for the United States. Like, it's wild and I think that that billion dollars would go further and do more for more people than anywhere else I could put it. And he's also working on Neuralink, which is a really interesting company which puts a sort of brain chip interfaces to allow people to hear again, see again, allow paraplegics to walk again, um which is really, really incredible. Dr. Alex, thank you so much. It's so illuminating and I can't wait to have you back again sometime soon to talk about all the other things we could have talked about today. We focused on peptides predominantly, but I know that over on your YouTube channel you talk about a lot more than that. So, highly recommend everybody go check out Dr. Alex's YouTube channel and uh it's been a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. YouTube have this new crazy algorithm where they know exactly what video you would like to watch next based on AI and all of your viewing behavior. And the algorithm says that this video is the perfect video for you. It's different for everybody looking right now. Check this video out and I bet you you might love it.