Video summary
The video explores the often overlooked mental health challenges faced by new fathers, specifically focusing on the prevalence of depression during the perinatal period. While there is significant controversy regarding whether to label this condition "postpartum" or "perinatal" depression for men due to societal associations with childbirth trauma in mothers, experts argue that the term should be inclusive because it simply refers to the time after a baby's birth. The physiological and psychological risk factors are largely shared between parents; both experience stress, sleep disruption, relationship conflicts, identity crises, and hormonal or brain changes. Despite these similarities, men often face skepticism when claiming they suffer from similar conditions, leading many cases of paternal depression to go undiagnosed because screening protocols currently focus primarily on mothers.
A significant portion of the discussion addresses the social friction that arises when fathers seek recognition for their struggles, which can be perceived by some as "gatekeeping" or diminishing maternal experiences. The transcript highlights a common sentiment among women who feel they have fought hard to get postpartum depression recognized and funded, leading them to view men's claims with suspicion. However, the video argues that this perspective creates a false zero-sum game where supporting one parent's mental health is seen as detracting from the other's needs. The speaker emphasizes that pitting fathers against mothers or denying their vulnerability hinders the goal of having fully participating primary caregivers in families. If society expects men to take on heavy caregiving roles without acknowledging the accompanying emotional toll, it sets them up for failure and isolation rather than support.
To illustrate these points, the video features a personal account from a father named Jared who struggled with an inability to bond with his newborn daughter initially, experiencing shame and disconnection before seeking therapy and finding relief once he learned about paternal postpartum depression. His story underscores that approximately 10% of new dads experience depressive symptoms in the first year after birth, yet they are rarely screened for it by medical professionals. The narrative contrasts this with a TikTok comment section where users debate whether men's feelings stem from actual clinical depression or simply discomfort and uncertainty about shifting family dynamics. This real-world example reinforces the idea that dismissing fathers' mental health issues not only harms them but also negatively impacts their partners, as a father's well-being is a critical predictor of his partner's mental stability and the overall health of the child.
Ultimately, the video concludes by challenging the cultural narrative that frames maternal depression as an inherent biological crisis while treating paternal distress as merely "baby blues" or hormonal fluctuations unrelated to childbirth. The speaker suggests that if men are encouraged to be primary caregivers, their vulnerability must be respected rather than ignored under the guise of protecting mothers' status in healthcare discourse. By rejecting the idea that empathy and mental health resources are a finite pie where one parent's gain is another's loss, families can build better support systems for everyone involved. The discussion ends with a call to action for society to recognize that treating fathers' mental health is not just about fairness but is essential for ensuring healthy outcomes for mothers, babies, and the family unit as a whole.
Read the full video transcript
What are the downsides of fatherhood for
men?
>> Well, we talked about already, you know,
weight gain.
We talked about testosterone changes.
There are also increased vulnerability
to mood disorders. So, the prevalence of
depression in new dads is about twice
that of the general population. There's
a lot of controversy about whether we
call it postpartum depression in dads. A
lot of
>> I've observed this. In In your opinion,
>> Yes.
>> do dads get postpartum depression?
>> So, in the book, I say I think perinatal
depression is a better word. That just
means around the birth of a baby.
>> Okay.
>> But, to me, it's semantic. It doesn't
matter that much whether we call it
postpartum or perinatal. I think some
people really are attached the idea of
postpartum really means having given
birth. That's not really what the term
means. It just means occurring after the
birth of a baby. And the fact is that a
lot of the risk factors for depression
are shared by new moms and new dads.
You've got stress, you've got disrupted
sleep, you've got relationship conflict,
you've got new responsibilities,
identity crisis,
hormone changes, brain changes. So, even
though you're not the person that's
physically delivered an infant, you are
still experiencing a lot of the same
overlapping risks.
>> What does postpartum mean?
>> So, it just means after the birth of a
baby. The time period
>> your birth of a baby.
>> Yeah, it doesn't necessarily mean
>> is a gender neutral term.
>> Yeah, it's a gender neutral term. It
doesn't necessarily mean that you
birthed the baby. It just means the time
period that falls after the birth of a
baby. That said, I don't want to
antagonize the moms who keep coming into
my Instagram comments to get mad at me
for talking about postpartum depression
cuz I understand, you know, I
>> What are they mad about? Are they mad
about the fact that this is our term?
Like, we want it to be It needs to be
like paternal postpartum depression.
Also, it needs some sort of a qualifier
on it. It sounds to me like, and I saw a
bunch of comments on Instagram talking
about the same thing. Uh
It's not about this is a term that we
care about. It
My best reading of it, right? And this
is me trying to steel man it as best I
can.
>> Yeah.
>> The process of childbirth for a woman is
so
arduous and traumatic and scary
that any man who appears to be flippant
or dismissive or to kind of
liken the challenge that he goes through
to the one that the mom goes through.
>> Mhm.
>> That is seen as being very callous and
and
it doesn't fully appreciate or
understand the sacrifice of a of a mom.
I think that's the best reading of it.
>> Yeah, I think that's a good reading. I
think another piece of that
>> That's me with my peaceful hat on.
>> Yes, where's your peaceful hat? You're
missing that prop. You need to You need
a new prop.
>> Yeah.
>> I would say that a lot of women
legitimately feel like they've had to
work very hard to get postpartum
depression recognized. There's
inadequate funding, there's inadequate
attention paid to reproductive health
and mood disorders in moms. And so if
they're fighting to get access to
treatment and to get education about
their mental health, they feel like how
can dads just sort of show up and make
it all about them? That seems very
unfair. And I'm totally sympathetic to
that argument. I mean, I talked to a
psychotherapist who works with new dads
for my book who's done a lot of advocacy
for postpartum mental health in men and
she says a lot of the women's health
advocates are just like, "Can't we have
this one thing? Can't we have the
postpartum period? This is ours."
>> Right, but I mean that my peaceful hat's
got taken off now. That is [ __ ]
stupid. But because what you're saying
is, "Can we not not support men because
we want women to have most of the
attention?" You go, "Well, hang on a
second. Are you most concerned about
owning this area with cognitive real
estate like it's some sort of cultural
appropriation by men, or do you care
about the outcome of the kid and of the
mom?" Because if you don't treat the
mental health of the father, how do you
think the mom's going to feel? And how
do you think the child's going to grow
up? So, what you're saying is you would
rather be intellectually superior,
but in the real world have negative side
effects. Like that is the outcome.
Whether that's what they know or what
they mean doesn't matter. Like it's not
my job to sugarcoat the fact that you
trying to own some area of cognitive
real estate
is having a negative impact on men.
That should be enough, but also on mom
if the men thing wasn't enough. And if
that's not enough, on baby, too. So,
like
not recognizing And if you did this in
reverse, right? And this is true. For a
very, very, very long time there was all
research was done on men. It was just
the male body standard inside of the
medical industry.
No one said, "Well, this is
cancer. That's men's thing." You go,
"No, this is not a [ __ ] gendered
issue." So, I mean, I've got I got a
video to show you. I got video from the
times that you've probably seen that I
think is very interesting. And
the video's interesting and the comments
are way more interesting. So, it's this
one. It's this one on TikTok, Jared.
>> I had postnatal depression. Yes, dads
can get it, too.
>> [music]
>> In 2021 when my daughter Aurelia was
about a month old, my wife turned to me
in bed one morning [music] and she
asked, "How much do you love her?" I
froze. I kind of grit my teeth and said,
[music] "Yeah, I really love her, but
inside I knew it wasn't there yet." I
struggled to bond with my baby. Felt
disconnected [music] and had growing
shame that I was not being the natural
father I thought I would be. [music]
About 6 months into fatherhood, I opened
up to my wife. I wanted to be a rock to
Chessie who had had a complicated
pregnancy. Eventually, [music] I got
therapy, but postnatal depression was
never raised. It wasn't until Aurelia
was a year old that I came across an
article [music] about men's PND that
everything started to make sense. About
10% of new [music] dads will experience
depressive symptoms during the perinatal
period and first year of a child's life.
For me and my wife, it was a eureka
moment. Men are not routinely screened
[music] for PND. So many cases go
undiagnosed. I think the system is not
changing quickly enough to offer support
and spot the signs of depression in
dads. My bond with Aurelia is now
incredible. And with new [music]
understanding and support, I hope I
won't suffer from PND again, but I think
new dads should know they might not have
that emotional bond straight away.
>> All right.
I think we'll pause it there, Jared.
>> that.
>> Just look at the com- just press on the
comments on the right-hand side for me.
>> to go on. I want to see the comments.
>> Uh Matt, please. I already had a long
day. How do I make this about myself?
Thank you for telling us that's Tom
Scarvo. Oh Matt, it's not the same
thing. This isn't depression. It's
discomfort and uncertainty. Postpartum
depression is linked to the dramatic
hormonal changes that happen after
childbirth, such as sudden drops in
estrogen and progesterone. Not sure how
this affects the father. Time of
irritation, 1:41 p.m. Playing on my
device. Yes, however, calling it
postnatal depression isn't the right
phase. Think he ultimately just didn't
like all the attention in the
relationship shifting to the baby.
Please, I'm already annoyed today. How
can I make this about me, too? I feel
left out. Is there poo in my AirPods?
>> My gosh.
>> Like
>> Yeah, I've been I've been fighting in
the comments sections like these for a
while now and uh
you know, people really come out of the
woodwork to be frustrated with this kind
of material and I think there's a
gatekeeping around perinatal depression
that is unfortunate because mental
health is a family system. You need the
best possible team around a baby. And
the best predictor actually of mom's
mental health is the support that she
gets from her partner. So if dad is not
well, dad
>> is not showing up mom's mental health
either. I think the idea that this is a
fixed pie or that it's a zero-sum game,
like there's a finite amount of
resources that are going to go to a
parent's mental health and they need to
be directed solely to mom, I think is
really limited. We need to be thinking
about how do moms work together with
dads to make sure that the baby is
getting well cared for and that
everybody's mental health needs are
getting met.
>> I think a zero-sum view of empathy is
like one of the dumbest, especially with
something like this. It's just a guy
going, "I went through this really hard
thing."
And people going, "No, you didn't. No,
you didn't. Or I went through something
that was way worse than that."
>> Yeah, why are we gaslighting dads? And
why are we pitting dads against moms?
And my response to that is, if we want
to have a society where men are stepping
up as parents and they're fully
participating in caretaking, they're
waking up with the baby, they're doing
the hard parts of care, we need to
recognize that that's going to have
mental health consequences. It's going
to be taxing. It's going to be
isolating. It's going to be draining.
And if we really want men to
participate, we have to respect that
their mental health matters, too. We
can't guard it as though it's the sole
domain of new moms because we want dads
to act more like primary caregivers, but
we're not willing to accept that they're
going to have vulnerability tied to
that.
>> Bingo. Yeah.
You're saying the same thing
in two different breaths or saying
different things in the same breath,
which is we want dads to be fully
involved, but we don't believe that they
can have the negative outcomes that
other people who've been fully involved
for all of history have.
>> Right.
>> What's the rate of post
postnatal depression in women?
>> It's a little higher in new moms than it
is in new dads. I think it's a it ranges
across studies, but like 19 to 21%.
>> about double.
>> 10%.
>> Which is nearly the same as the change
in brain.
1% to two two and a half.
>> Yes. And I think important context is
that women have about twice the rate of
anxiety and depression in the general
population. So, it tracks with that
overall base rate.
>> Wow, that's
a spicy realization. But, it could just
be an increase in whatever your
predisposition was, and that dads are
actually getting it at the same rate as
moms.
And now that we've got more involved
caregiving, which is the primary
enforcement mechanism for the the
change, I'm going to guess postpartum
depression in fathers is mediated by the
amount of caregiving that they do.
>> Right, and that's the other thing
>> So, you're telling me like that that's
brutal. That any dad that's listening to
this now knows the more that I care for
my baby, the higher my likelihood of
getting postnatal depression is.
Jared,
have you ever considered that you might
have a drinking problem?
>> I don't consider a lot, Chris.
>> Well, you drank an entire case of
Athletic Brewing Co. last night.
>> But, they're non-alcoholic.
>> And that's not a problem?
>> Sorry, man. I I just kept chugging,
waiting for the regret to creep in.
Never happened.
See, most people, like Jared, don't want
to change what they drink. They just
don't want the next day to be a complete
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>> [laughter]
>> Congratulations, you made it to the end
of a clip, and the full-length episode
is available
right here.
Go on.