Panel | Journeys in Teaching Innovation: Faculty and Instructor Stories of Idea to Impact

Um, first of all, happy celebrate learning week to everybody and welcome to journeys in teaching innovation faculty and instructors stories from idea to impact. Um, I I'm Ainsley Camps. I'm an educational consultant here at the center for teaching, learning and technology on Vancouver campus. And I'd like to welcome you to today's session and express my gratitude to to our moderator and panelists who come here to guide us through six key stages in the journey from idea to impact. So, they'll be sharing their practical insights, their lessons learned and some concrete examples to just give you a real sense of what it's like to bring one of your ideas uh, your teaching ideas to life. So, before we go further, uh, I'd like to begin by acknowledging that the Vancouver campus of UBC is located on the ancestral and unceded territories of the Musqueam people. If you're joining today from another area, I would invite you to take a moment to acknowledge where you are participating from. I'm joining from the area known as Fairview, which is on the unceded territory of Salish people, Coast Salish, uh, and that includes territory of Musqueam, Squamish, and Squamish peoples. So, this uh, a session is hopefully being recorded. I don't [laughter] know. Hopefully, uh, Audrey's turned on the recording. I didn't hear the announcement. Okay. I do see that it is being recorded now. Um, so we may take this recording and upload it onto our CTLT YouTube channel. So you should know that. If you are interested in turning on the captions on your machine, you can do so by looking at the lower toolbar of the Zoom screen and there you will either see start captions in the in the main toolbar or you may have to search for it under more with the three dots. So today's panel will be 90 minutes. Uh, panelists will respond to questions across six key stages of moving an innovative idea into a project for the first 60 minutes. In the remaining 30 minutes, we're going to invite audience Q&A and we invite you to submit your questions or upvote questions others have posted using this Padlet. So the the Padlet is can be accessed through the QR code to the left and Weaver's added the the link as well to the chat. If you'd like to take a look at that. We ask you to keep your questions concise and broadly relevant to others and to anchor your questions in one of the six columns on the Padlet wall. So I'm going to take you there now. So this is what the Padlet wall looks like. You can see there are six categories. So if I had a question, so I see already there's a question there about workload. >> [laughter] >> So if I really like that question and I would like to see it answered, then I can register my vote here. I can just add another I can add a an emoji, a little happy face or whatever it is I want and that'll let me let Weaver know that that's an important question for you. But if I had a question about sustainability, I would just press the plus sign right here, fill in my question down here, and then push publish. And it'll go under the category that I think is best represented. So, with that, I'll leave this up here, Weaver, and uh I I'd like to introduce you to Weaver Shaw from Vantage College. She's going to be our moderator today. Weaver, take it away. Hello. Thank you so much. Thanks everybody for joining this morning. I'm going to go ahead and share some slides. So, uh thanks. My name's Weaver Shaw, and I'm a lecturer at Vantage, and I will be your moderator this morning. So, let's keep our arms and legs inside of the Zoom room at all times, and we'll get started with our panelist. Uh so, I'm going to go uh by photo. If you could just take 1 minute with our panelists. Um If you could tell us your name, your area of expertise or study or interest, and very quickly your favorite grant moment. I think my favorite grant moment for me was the first time I got a large grant, and I went, "Yeah!" And then I immediately went, "Oh." And it so there was like excitement about it, and then going, "Oh, yeah, this is a big project." It's kind of my favorite mixed emotion moment for a grant. So, let's start with Karen. Karen, can you introduce yourself? Yeah, uh thanks, Weaver. Uh my name is Karen Dinh I'm an associate professor with the faculty of pharmaceutical sciences. Uh my position's a bit different. I'm a cross appointment, so I also hold a position at Vancouver General Hospital. Um a lot of my research um that's not education-based um looks at um ways pharmacists can kind of improve the health care system um and the patient's journey through it. Uh my favorite grant moment, I would have to say um was uh students as partners and uh OER. Um we ended up getting two, but it was a group of students um, that I worked with and we worked to incorporate um, uh, looking at the environmental impact of pharmaceuticals um, into our current curriculum. Um, so it was really great to see to work with the students and they were very grassroots and a very hands-on um, in terms of that whole process and I think that was uh, one of my favorite uh, moments if I were to reflect back. Some great. Thank you. Uh, we're going to go to Michael. Thanks Weaver. Um, I am a producer working at UBC Studios, so I am a staff person and uh, we are the central media production unit at UBC. People are making media in every department, but we're the one group that that's our only reason for being and we work with pretty much every department from time to time. I think we're at 170 departments, so mostly video, but also graphic design, photography, virtual tours, 3D models. We do professional production work and then we also support people that are making their own media. And we spend a lot of time doing consultation, so uh, we don't need to charge for our consultation time or we help people figure out whether they can make it themselves or whether they need professional help. I do a lot of funding support uh, application support with faculty around TLIF grants and other grants. And we so basically we come alongside the content experts, the faculty and the staff who um, know what needs to be made and we help them make it is basically what we do. Um, I've spent most of my time at UBC trying to figure out 9 years trying to figure out where the levers are to support projects that we think are important within the institutional requirements and budgets, so I'll be talking a bit about that later in response to my question. Um, and my favorite grant experience was uh, when Susie Lavallee of Forestry faculty came to us asking for us to make videos of their vertebrate ID collection skulls and uh, birds and because the specimens were getting beat up and then students could review them at their leisure and my executive producer Sizi and I looked at each other and I can't remember who asked it, but we said, "Have you thought about making 3D models of these objects?" And Sizi hadn't realized she could. So, we made a prototype of a 3D model and that turned into a large TLEF grant where we made 3D models for I think it was 15 different departments between uh uh natural specimens, soil monoliths, uh Museum of Anthropology cultural artifacts. So, that was an exciting moment for me to see what can happen within the structures of the institution and the budgets and funding grant process to meet a need that people didn't realize could be met. So. That's me. Thank you. Thank you. Um Chanel. Hi, I'm Chanel. Uh I'm student um psychology I study psychology and adult education at UBC. Uh my study mainly focus on supporting neurodivergent kids' development. And one of my favorite grant moment was that I have had a uh uh while I working with uh the sustainability project supported by the workplace sustainability fund. Uh this project I work with River and uh through this uh grant we developed a cute toolkit based on environmental practice we implemented during the Vantage Vantage College Capstone conference. Uh this experience allow me to really connect ideas to real-world impact and to think about how small world design changes can influence uh larger systems. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. All right. Andrew. Hi everyone. I'm Andrew Owen. I'm the Associate Dean Academic in the Faculty of Arts and also an Associate Professor teaching in Political Science. Um one area that I'm working working in right now is generative AI and teaching and learning, especially written assessment. And my favorite grant experience was um a project I did with four undergraduates under the students as partners um project uh where we designed a new course and it was just wonderful to spend a sustained amount of time with the same students and really engage in deep dialogue about their perspectives and my perspectives and we both learned a lot, so I almost wish every grant had some money set aside for sort of a student sounding board or partners. That's great. Thank Andrew. Uh let's go to Biz. Hello, I'm Biz Nijdam. I'm assistant professor of teaching in the Department of Central, Eastern, and Northern European Studies, but I also direct the UBC Pop Culture Cluster and Comic Studies Cluster in which the UBC Critical Play Lab is housed. Um so my research is largely in popular media, including tabletop and digital games as well as tarot, which is a new uh facet of my research and teaching. I have kind of two moments that are my favorite when it comes to grant experiences. The first was recently um we had partnered with the Arctic Winter Games International Committee as part of uh a larger project on uh indigenous storytelling uh through through visual narratives and we were in Whitehorse for the Arctic Winter Games and I got to drive a 15-seater van and it was amazing. And it was such like a proud moment to be driving this massive van with a team of six indigenous cartoonists and three game designers as well as all of our partners. Uh but a more relevant um favorite moment is is actually how grants change over time and how projects evolve if you let them. And so I'm wrapping up an open-access textbook. Um it's a Grimm's fairy tale reader and initially we wanted to collect all of the copyright-free available Grimm's Fairy Tales that were published in 1857, which is the versions that most people are familiar with, and the first versions published in 1812. And we discovered that, first of all, there are no open-access versions of 1812, and the ones that were translated into English for 1857 were translated for different audiences, different cultures, and so they really didn't honor the original language or intent of the stories as closely as I would have wanted them to, because I teach these texts. So, we hired a graduate student, and now we are retranslating all of the 1857, all or the canonical fairy princess tales, at least. Um the 1812, in addition to the 1810 versions, which were pre-publication. Um and I'm working with this graduate student who's who's very interested in translating texts from Germany from the 1900s, and so it was in partnership with the student that we identified a new strategy for uh translating these fairy tales, and I'm really excited that the project will launch this fall. Thanks, Biz. Um Jin Zhao. Hello everyone. My name is Chunxiao, Chunxiao He. I'm currently a PhD student in language and literacy education at the UBC. And my uh current research focuses are on digital literacies and English language teaching and learning. Prior to joining this uh my current PhD program, I used to work as an English language instructor and digital navigator both in Canada and my home country for around 13 years. Uh and my favorite grant moment is the moment when I joined the project of AI-assisted English language learning. I work with Weaver, uh because at that time I came across a lot of academic papers talking about students need to critically engage with AI uh in applied linguistics in uh English language learning, but critical engagement requires a good English language proficiency for L2 learners. And this project combines both English language learning and critical engagement with AI, which is really exciting. So, when I heard this project, I immediately joined. And that's my favorite moment. So, very happy to to be part of this panel and get to know everyone here. Thank you. Thanks. It's great. And David? Is David? I just heard my name in the ether. >> [clears throat] >> Sorry. It So, basically, I run the scientific literacy lab within the Michael Smith Labs and I'm a faculty there. My area of expertise sort of as a dichotomy in both the social sciences and also in the hard sciences. So, so I study things around public understanding of science and then I also study things around molecular genetics. My favorite grant moments are ones where I get to sort of divulge myself into other perspectives, whether that's a grant that allows sort of educational projects to merge scientific and humanities perspectives or grants that do capacity training within Western and indigenous perspectives of science. So, so we recently got a CIHR for capacity training with folks in the Nunavik and Quebec, which is the self-government arm of the Inuit community in Nunavik. And so, that's something I'm really looking forward to. But happy to be here. Great. Thank you. All right, we're going to jump into our questions. So, we have one question for each person and then we'll sort of open up uh for those last couple questions. Once the panel questions are done at the end of the hour, then we'll go to our Padlet. Um Okay, are ready? You've got 3 minutes to answer your question. Uh if you go over your 3 minutes, I will emoji you on the screen and if that doesn't get your attention, I will come in with my big teacher voice. Okay, ready? Here we go. So, question one. I'm going to read [clears throat] the question and then throw it to the person. So, how do you know when an idea is strong enough to pursue funding rather than something that should remain sort of smaller in a classroom or a unit experiments? And this question is going to Andrew. Thanks, Siobhan. Um Yeah, I think this is a great question. I think certainly experiments uh in your own classroom can become funded projects. Uh and I think to kind of tackle the question, uh I would say that even a little experiment in your own class can benefit from thinking in a sort of funded lens. And the particular angle I'm thinking about here is evaluation, right? We often try new things uh and then we kind of go on how it seemed to work in the classroom, but I think uh you know, talking to students, having little surveys or focus groups can really benefit our own sort of just day-to-day or term-to-term improvement in our courses. Um I think uh more generally about this distinction, um I would say for projects that are funded, one challenge is can you articulate the problem clearly and in a way that's accessible to a broad audience? If you think of the TLEF uh grants, those are reviewed by a university-wide committee of faculty and staff. And so, uh making the challenge or opportunity clear to them uh is really key first step. Another critical um one way to sort of transition the thinking from oh this I might want to try this to oh maybe there's a funding project in here is sustainability. Uh is it sort of a one-off that you're trying because there's something in the news and you want to incorporate it into class, but it won't be replicable in the future. Um that's probably not one that should head towards funding, whereas something that you think could be sustainable. And then the last principle would be sort of the breadth of impact. TLEF does um fund small projects, projects that hit a smallish number of students. There is a criteria that impact matters. And so, I think one way that people are often quite successful in that competition and others is to have an idea in your classroom and then partner with other colleagues in another unit, in your unit, or even in another faculty. Um and that's just going to ensure the sort of breadth of impact of the uh innovation or idea. Um the last point I'll make Oh, 3 seconds. Uh is uh talk to your colleagues. Say, you know, the they have a good sense a lot of them have lots of in-class experience and knowledge of the university. But most importantly, talk to the folks at CTLT, at LT, uh at other units like in Arts we have ISIT. These staff are experts in this sort of stuff and they'll you'll just almost always benefit from a conversation because they know the networks of people that you can be in touch with. They know past projects that are similar that you might want to talk to people. And so, that's the first place I'd go if I was thinking about making this step from one to the other. Amazing. Thank you. And you set the bar really high because you had 4 seconds left. >> [gasps] >> All right. So, where ideas begin question one. Uh now we're going to do question two. So, from the perspective of students or community partners, what makes an initial idea feel meaningful or urgent enough to support? And we're going to throw that question to Chanel. Well, this is the problem I was thinking while writing my proposal or I when I apply for the grant. Uh I always think about uh what is my personal connection to this project at first. And if a idea make me feel personally connected and responsible, and if I can say, "Oh, this matter to me and uh I want to do something about it." This is usually a great start. Uh and because with motivation like this, uh it become much easier for me to find meaning behind the ideas. And uh idea always feel more urgent when the consequences of not acting are visible or when there are limitation in existing support. For example, if the current uh program are not reaching certain groups or are not addressing the issue effectively or if you can clearly point out who is being affected and how things could uh get worse get worsen without uh intervention. Uh the problem could become much harder to ignore. And another thing I have learned is that the urgency is often tied to the context. And an idea can feel more compelling when it responsible to respond to uh something happening in the world right now. Uh like I'm a psychology student, so we often include how uh special and uh how special the current contact is. Uh what uh if we miss the a specific moment or context, we may lose opportunity to study the same issue in the same way, or we cannot we can no longer influence certain things at the same way. So, for example, we can never fully recreate the condition of the COVID lockdown period to study COVID related issue in that context again. So, I think maybe this maybe this will work for your field and work across different explain as well. At the same time, I make sure my proposal include realistic past to impact. Even small scale initiative can feel meaningful if they practical and have the potential to make tangible differences. Another point I want to say is it's important that the idea demonstrate awareness of existing work when it respect that and build on what the other already doing and we you here to fill in the gap rather than duplicate it. It feel much more soulful and responsible. And when this aspect are in place, idea already feel urgent enough. So, I think if you could also bring your personality into the ideas and it could make the idea more compelling because I think most reviewer can tell the difference between an idea that's uh that someone just generated because they need a grand topic and the idea that has been genuinely living in someone's mind you know, a long time. Thank you. Great. Amazing. Right at 3 minutes. We are like so on the ball. All right. Thanks Chanel. Uh we are going to move into our environmental scans. Understanding what already exists out there and the question here is how can applicants balance innovation with respect for existing work, programs, or communities that may already be doing something similar. Great connection with Chanel and we're going to throw that to David. David, what you got? Okay. This counts against his time. Yeah, I think David's David's frozen. David, are you frozen? Oh, you. Hello. You're back. >> are. Okay, sorry. >> [laughter] >> Um, I'm guessing that cuts into my 3 minutes, but anyway, so uh let's start with the premise uh that innovation doesn't happen in a vacuum and and also I I think you know, if you're if you're looking and just sort of understand that folks are looking and evaluating these grant proposals, they will ultimately be critiquing the rationale of your ideas and your ideas arguably will be much stronger if there is an element of carefully surveying the field of existing work programs and looking at whatever evidence of effectiveness in current practices uh best or otherwise. And then from there um there might also be indication of areas that need work where elements in your grant can perhaps add value. And I think overall properly collaborating with organizations with similar goals or more important, collaborating with communities directly involved in the work uh will also make your proposal much stronger. Uh these relations um they will offer on-the-ground perspectives and critical insight that that we just don't have. And I think also the fact that uh you strive for it to be a collective effort um th- this can also signal that we're all doing the work for the right reasons. And these are all things that broadly speaking, they they just breed innovation and great ideas. Um I think to just to kind of conclude, I I'm basically a firm believer that that many projects um where innovation happens is when diversity of opinion and evidence comes in. And I guess in a way everyone works to to flatten hierarchies. Uh and as an important bonus, I can also mention that this flattening of hierarchies also results in stronger relations, right? And ends up making everything just a bit more enjoyable when you do this sort of stuff. Great. Thank you. All right. Um Let's go to Thanks, David. Let's go to uh question number four, still in the environmental scan. Um from the perspective of reviewers or community partners, what signals that somebody has done their homework and understands that landscape? That's a good one, Biz. Uh thank you. I I think this question connects a lot to what Dave just was saying and I'm going to reiterate a few of those points. Uh to to divide it into two parts, how do we signal to reviewers that we've done our homework? Well, make sure you read that grant application thoroughly you and and the mission of the program and then incorporate the language of that applica- like the application instructions and that mission into your grant application. Um you you need to also to to bring it back to what Andrew was saying, you should be able to articulate the problem in language that is perceptible just beyond your field. And this signals two things. It signals um that that your that that Well, first of all, the adjudication team can adjudicate it because they'll be able to navigate what that problem is using language that they can also use. But it also demonstrates how the how your project might have an impact beyond your classroom and how you can sort of set it in dialogue with larger problems. Um we've uh when when you're when you're drafting that grant application, you need to to show your reviewers that the project you're proposing actually fits into your career. So kind of tell a story about your career, how it led you to this project, and how it sits in your larger career trajectory. Um and then finding connecting back with Dave's finding similar projects to demonstrate that on the one hand you know how your project is different in making an important intervention, but then on the other how that you've learned from the successes and challenges of other projects that are circulating with grappling with some of the same issues. Then turning to community partners, the way to signal that you've done your homework is to like really do your homework. Read the website, know your partners' names. If you're working with indigenous communities, know how to talk about their traditional territories and the languages that they speak. Um know your partner's strategic goals and know how that your project that you're proposing can support those strategic goals. I think partnership isn't um it's relational. It's it's intended to go both ways, and I think it is even better when we know exactly how we're serving other communities. I think the university needs to be reaching out into communities and demonstrating that by articulating projects that serve our partners' goals more than our own or sometimes at the same time. Um then you also should step into a meeting already aware of the kind of concerns that they might bring to bear to the conversation, as well as like David was speaking about flattening the hierarchies that traditionally emerge in kind of university community partnerships. While you should step into the meeting in charge, you need to ensure that leadership it it's it's signaled very early on that leadership can be shared, and that we should flatten these hierarchies to ensure that partners feel that they have opportunities to step into leadership because that diversity of thought and opinions is what really makes successful projects incredibly successful and increases their impact. Oh, great. Thank you so much, Biz. All right. So, we've done our first two sections. We're going to move into purpose and value for why the work matters. So, this is question five. Many grants create opportunities for students or staff through paid positions or project experience. From your perspective, what makes these opportunities genuinely valuable rather than just temporary labor? And we're going to throw that question to Shanjiao. Thank you, Weaver. I will just share my experience working in a project of AI assistant English language learning. For me, this is a valuable experience for more than just a temporary work. First of all, the project closely aligned with my current research interest, academic study, and my previous experience in language teaching and learning. As I mentioned before, my current PhD research is AI mediated English language teaching and learning. And this course, the project I worked, combine both AI learning and language acquisition, which precisely fits into my research interests. That's why I feel this is not just a temporary work. I feel so connected to the project when I get involved into the design process. I could engage not just from the designer's perspective, but also from the researcher's viewpoint. To see how learning English can work together with developing digital literacies, especially developing the capabilities to critically evaluate the generated content and language by AI, and also reach students learning target. So, I value the experience working in the project because it aligns with my research interest and help with my academic studies. And secondly, my personality in this project as a graduate student also support the genuine engagement within this project. Uh in a it allows me to contribute to the development of the course from the student's perspective who can benefit from the course itself. Um for example, uh when I was designing the accessible document for the course, trying to copy all the content from Canvas course to the Word document, I designed it from the viewpoint of a student who is going to use uh the accessible document to walk through the course content and engage with the language and uh and the content. It involves uh where I should put my notes and which part I will do a self-reflection. All of the experience of working through the course contribute to the document design. And also uh the work in this project involved genuine and authentic participation in the research and knowledge co-creation, not just task completion. I personally appreciate the meeting online and in person held during the course design process, uh in which we as students um in this project work together and co-contribute ideas and offer suggestions from different perspective. Um so, which is so valuable experience when working in this project. Thank you so much, Weaver. Great. Thank you. All right. Moving along to question six. So, this question still in purpose and value is when reviewing or supporting a grant proposal, what kinds of alignment matter most? Alignment with the funding program, with institutional priorities, or with the needs of a particular audience or community? And this one's getting thrown to Michael. Thanks, Weaver. So, yeah, I have two And responses to this. One is sort of the surface technical quote reality and then the other is the the bigger picture actual reality that I've slowly learned about and a lot of other people have figured out and it's exciting to share about. So, the you know, the the surface level is that we we're a support service where we are staffed and we can work on projects that have budgets which are driven by institutional priorities. So, you know, that's the simple So, people approach us with ideas, we talk with them about ways that it could be accomplished and we ask about budget as one of one of our first questions. Um but then the reality that I've been uh slowly learning about and excited about is how the reality of UBC in particular um in my experience is that the institutional priorities are driven by people and needs and communities. And I have a particular example of that to share, but I we um as Andrew mentioned, I approaching staff such as ourselves at UBC Studios or Arts ISIT or LTIC, we've heard a lot of stories from different groups that we've worked with that we can share about potentials and possibilities and examples that people could find interesting if they're trying to figure out um what kind of alignment will help a project move forward. The example I wanted to point out is just through a project that we did where we uh supported the What I Learned in Class Today um project had did some videos interviews about this the history of that project. If you're not familiar with What I Learned in Class Today, please look it up. Um what we discovered was that it was a small group of indigenous students several years ago um were encouraged by faculty Link Kessler to record each other telling their stories of experiences at UBC. Uh very racist, difficult experiences that they had in classrooms and all of them were having. And these videos were filmed by them, uh cut down to short versions that Link Kessler shared with the Board of Governors. The Board of Governors took it to the president. Um there was a big institutional basically freak out. They spent a day with elders trying to figure out in a symposium what to do about the experience of the indigenous students. This led to the indigenous strategic initiatives um program which came out of the indigenous strategic plan several years ago, which was a ways to operationalize working toward reconciliation with the university. Um This turned into the indigenous strategic initiatives grant program, which gave $8 million to staff and faculty who had ideas about how to work toward reconciliation cultural safety within the university. And a lot of those were programs within particular departments driven by faculty and staff to work with the the environment for uh educating non-indigenous students and also supporting indigenous students. So, that's an example of a small group of students who had an idea that grew into what is now a massive uh funded uh program that faculty and staff can tap into to bring their projects to reality. So, I just want to encourage the idea that um the institutional priorities are driven by people and UBC has been very responsive. There's other examples in sustainability and accessibility that I don't have time to go into where now there is funding and people come to us with ideas and we can say, "Hey, did you know that UBC sustainability has this funding for classroom materials around climate change or accessibility?" So, um And I It was interesting because it's great to hear you focusing on the strategic goals of partners. We find ourselves looking at the strategic goals of the different parts of the organization at UBC. As I mentioned the indigenous strategic uh goals, the overall university goals, sustainability goals. And wherever you can tap into those, you can ride the momentum of uh work that a lot of other people have done to access budgets, to to open doors, to find resources, to find support. So, that's a really good strategy is to find the strategic plans that exist. But also to create new ones through the kind of activism that I described, so. Uh please look up what I'll be learning in class today if you're not familiar with that project. Thank you so much. Great. All right. Let's keep going. So, question seven, this is about work load work load, the realities of doing the work. Uh so, from the outside grants can look at very exciting, uh but they also involve significant responsibility. So, what do people often underestimate about the work load of managing a grant? And Karen, what do you think? Yeah, thank you, Weaver. Um so, uh I've been kind of reflecting and thinking back on my experiences uh with the different grants I've had in the past about what some of the challenges have been. I mean, I I think kind of like how Weaver talked at the beginning, it's very exciting when you first get that grant and you know you are going to have a bit of funding to support your work. Um some of the things I know myself I've really underestimated in the past um is that first uh piece of just setting up uh the grant itself. Um so, you know, depending on if you have a research account already set up, um if you um how complicated it is to kind of um have those funds actually transfer into that research account so you can actually start accessing the money. Um not so much with the TLEFs, but some of the other grants I have received in the past, uh there's been a bit of fine print that um say with a research grant we actually have to get ethics before we can access the money that maybe uh we weren't so aware of at the start. Um so, it's always important to kind of know that uh cuz that can all have an impact on your timeline. Um another thing uh that I found has come into play, um you know, it's really great to have that funding uh to support the work and to also give um opportunities. A lot of times the opportunities are given to our students um to help support the grant work uh and to uh work on the projects moving them forward. Um, and I think one of the things to consider in that, too, is just that time, uh, taken to supervise and to make sure that everything is on track and everyone that is working on the grant, um, has an understanding of what their responsibilities are and what the major milestones are. So, nothing is kind of, you know, delayed, um, uh, within the timeline. Um, and then kind of like the last major thing I I wanted to touch on was just that finishing within the target time. Um, you know, a lot of these TMF grants, they're 12 months. Um, a lot of other grants, too, might be just that limited time period. With the 12 months, maybe a bit longer, maybe even a bit shorter. Um, and I think sometimes, um, you know, in your application, you've laid out the milestones, everything is very nice and smooth that you're going to achieve all these and be able to write your final report and submit it all at the end. Um, but some of these kind of roadblocks, uh, that may come up along the way, may delay and affect your timeline. Um, so, one of the things I found I I do now is, um, I do see if there's a possibility, uh, when we start off, um, if there's flexibility in that timeline at the end. Um, and if there is, uh, very early on, uh, then if I have concerns about things finishing at the end, um, I do ask for an extension and I would say, you know, I think probably 100% of the time, uh, we've been granted that and that just gives us a little bit of, uh, breathing room to make sure that we do achieve everything that we have set out to do at the start. I think that's, uh, those are the main things I wanted to touch on. That's great. Thanks, Sue. Thanks so much, Karen. Uh, okay. Moving to, uh, some of more open questions. So, for our panelists, question eight. Uh, for those who have managed or reviewed grants, what advice would you give about project management issues such as hiring students, coordinating teams, and handling budgets? What do you got? Who would like to jump in with this? I I can say a few things. Oh, sorry. >> Okay, Dave. No, no, let's do Dave and then Michael. I I think um maybe this is more for folks that um don't have a lot of experience with sort of uh managing grants. Uh I'm a big believer of sort of baby steps and so sort of you know, kind of wading into this sort of work with smaller grants first and and just you know, cuz it's really sometimes hard experientially to tell you what the bandwidth suck will be exactly. So so just sort of you know, going in with maybe a a smaller grant initially so at least you get a sense of how these things sort of go. And maybe just as importantly because you're baby stepping into it, you'll you'll start to to build a community of expertise around the things that you are interested in and the people that you want to work with and those will think those will be things that will will kind of help with the bandwidth as you kind of think bigger and and be a little bit more ambitious with some of the projects that you have in the future. So so those are the the kind of things I would mention like if if you step into a a a giant tri-council grant all of a sudden and that that's going to it's going to be really tough with Yeah, if I can jump in. Yeah. Um yeah, Dave, that's uh really great advice. We often suggest scaffolding and scaling trying You want to make 20 videos? Why don't we start with one video and see how that goes and then if it works well, we'll do 20. And um also finding people that have done it before. Uh we we do a lot of planning and budgeting around videos and graphic design. So, if you haven't done that before, you can talk to us about that and we can help and CTLT can help around Canvas structures and there are a lot of experts at UBC and asking around you'll save yourself a lot of hassle and confusion and um hiring students as well. This This is all being done UBC's a big place and a lot of this is being being done. So, great to plug into people who have done it before and discovered things the hard way that can save you a lot of trouble. That'll be my main advice. Thanks, Michael. I will second that and go to Biz. Part of the language here says for those who have managed and or reviewed grants and and so here I wanted to step in and encourage people to step onto adjudication committees for grants because it gives you such a breadth of insight into how people run grants, the kind of research methodologies that can be incorporated, also how that team reviews grants. And so, it's this uh invaluable experience that you can directly apply to grant writing either for that funding program or for others. And then also with regards to not step like stepping into immediately overseeing a large tri-council grant, um being a collaborator on a large, for example, partnership grant really helps you understand the challenges that exist in overseeing and managing a lot of funds and these huge teams. And you get to be exposed to variety of of like structures and how that can be managed, how people are consulted, what the executive committee looks like, how people communicate, and then you can you can learn from that and learn exactly how you might want to execute something similar either very similar or very different from that experience. So, watching before you do, I think is part of that scaffolding. Great. Thanks. All right, that was great for question eight. Um I wish I had come to this panel 10 years ago. Uh, question nine. Many projects are funded for a short period, but their outputs are expected to last much longer. So, what makes a grant project sustainable over time? We've touched on that a little bit, but if there's anyone who would like to say more about that? Yeah, Beth. I only have one tip, and this is for like sustainability for digital spaces. Use a UBC domain. I don't care how clever whatever domain that you might be able to access to is, just reroute that URL URL to a stable UBC domain, so you don't lose access accidentally, intentionally. You just always know it's going to continue to be housed on UBC servers, and that will also ensure that um, for years to come, even when you're not paying attention, there is there is that legacy. I think I have another Yeah, Karen. comment too, cuz uh, like some of my earlier um, like TLEF based ones were, you know, incorporating new curriculum. I think it's important to get buy-in uh, from other faculty where you envision this, if it's not exactly always going to be your course or your what you're overseeing. Um, I think the more buy-in and integration uh, you get, the more sustainable it'll be. It's when it's those one-off extras, I think those are more difficult um, to kind of continue on after the funding is gone. Great. Thank you. Anyone else want to chime in before we go to question 10? All right. So, question 10. Uh, kind of building on that. In rapidly changing areas such as digital media or AI-based resources, how can teams design projects that will not become outdated when I wake up in the morning. Michael. Uh yeah, it's particularly challenging right now as AI changes overnight, literally, as we are all discovering. And uh it's something that it's it's there's no simple answer. We at UBC Studios have watched patterns over a long period of time, so we can give some advice about best practices about formats and software and and ways of delivering content, but it really is tricky. And uh but yeah, as Biz mentioned, having having a UBC-based uh URL and also any any support like there's uh H5P interactive video support from UBC now, and there's some beautiful flashy ones out in the world, but we don't know if they'll be there tomorrow. So, yeah. Trying to have things on a platform that you know will be there tomorrow, if you can figure that out. But again, that changes constantly. So, best to talk to people that are working in that realm every day is a really good way to try to get a clearer answer on those questions that keep changing. Great. Andy? Yeah, I think uh for things like this, you have to build in the fact of change into how you design what you're doing. Um obviously, without being an AI expert, you can't really anticipate where things are going to go, but it's helpful to sort of draw a line between what are the principles and what are the like the principles that may be more enduring as the technology changes and develops, as opposed to what are the like characteristics of the intervention or thing you've created that are unique to the technology to a certain point in time. Uh so, like for instance, if you ask AI, it still recommends for AI-resistant projects. It's like, "Oh, you do uh ask about a local issue." cuz AI is not so good at that. It's like, "Well, that's not true." Um but there is something about the local issue, right? Like, why did that work in the past? Uh possibly in part for relevance for students uh and the uniqueness of like giving them choice or control over their own uh learning path. Um and so yeah, my basic point is try to separate the principles that should endure even as the technology changes from the concrete things that uh speak to the technology at current point in time. Great. Anyone else like to chime in before we do our last two questions? No. All right. Going, going. All right, let's see our next question question 11. What difference the works makes? What difference the work makes? When people talk about impact in grant work, what does that actually mean? Is the impact about the project itself, the team, the institution, the broader community? What we got? Okay, Biz. Uh for me personally, the impact is about the reach. And so how many different audiences are you imagining interacting with whatever with with the data or the outputs of your project? And having that those audience be audiences be as diverse as possible really extends that impact. So having diverse outcomes or diverse outputs, so you speak to these different audiences, translating the data into several different uh means or or translating the curriculum development into several different platforms. So my OER project has a pressbook. It has like a series of videos that are uploaded on Canvas. We're also creating a YouTube channel. And so having these many different places where diverse audiences can engage is is increasing the impact. And I just want to say when people are trying to assess their impact, the numbers really do matter. So, collect the numbers of the places it's being circulated, the number of media outlets that have shared your conversation article. Um for example, we have uh one of the projects that I was on um that was creating comics about uh children with extreme behavioral issues and complex communication needs. It was circulated in a newsletter in Ontario and it's now being used to train clinicians and health care providers on how on these children's experience of health care. And so, knowing that a specific example, it's not just like, "Okay, we've reached a public audience." But, how we've reached a public audience, how it's having an impact, I think that really matters when we when people are reading the narratives of our UBCVs. And and when we're also advocating for new kinds of funding, uh knowing exactly where that impact place. Great. Thanks, Biz. And Michael. Um yeah, this is something we talk about a lot in our team because we do a lot of work in the social media realm with uh branding marketing and alumni engagement. And there are ways to find out not only how many people are watching a video, but how far they got in the video, where they build out, how many times they watched it. And that's really meaningful in terms of where do we put our resources next time. So, uh that's something to really look into for learning materials. And you think we um we did a series of plant identification videos with Patrick Colbert from forestry several years ago and they went out into the world and have a much bigger audience than they do within UBC as well as the UBC audience. And so, there's real opportunities that way. And you can track and see. There are ways to find out. So, and those ways to find out change a lot. The metrics and the way to access them change. So, it's good to talk to someone who lives in that realm if you're curious about how to do that even on Kaltura or other platforms. That's great. Thank you, Dave. Oop, he might have frozen. We can defrost him. Come on. To Oh, hello. Hello. >> Oh, am I better? Okay, it must be my internet. Sorry. >> [clears throat] >> Anyway, I just wanted to to add on to those two excellent comments and just sort of say um that I feel like in many ways when you talk about impact here, um all of the above kind of comes into play. Um obviously on a on a personal level, the the thing that that sort of drives you forward is sort of um the the metrics associated with the broader community. Like what what is a service that that that you're adding to uh the goal that you aspire to, but the reality is is that, you know, just being involved in these projects, um you know, it it all adds up uh to itself, right? So, so the fact that that you're able to manage uh a project itself will lend credibility to you um to continue doing this work, like to be more successful in future grant proposals. Uh the fact that you did this project and you've assembled a team that you worked with closely, you built that level of expertise and perhaps that team can engage uh whether it's directly or through networks that they build as well. And of course, the institution, that that's also a great thing because there's there's a huge body of Yodas, you know, just locally in terms of uh what's going on, you know, at EBC. Um and so so just, you know, kind of going through the motions of doing these sorts of projects will kind of lend to a broadening of that as well. So, so yeah, I think overall this there's like these hard impacts when you've got your metrics that, you know, look good for the report that you kind of signed in and also feel good because you're, you know, hopefully helping that broader community, but there's also these soft impacts that are kind of really immeasurable, but play a big role in in your future endeavors. Great. Thank you. All right, we're going to head into our last question. And uh question 12 for our panel. How do different stakeholders define success differently? For example, what does it mean for students, administrators, reviewers, or community partners? All right, Biz. I'm sorry. I just always have a lot to say. >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Um for me personally, success for me means or feels like partnerships wanting to continue. So, when the students want to keep working with me, when the community partners want to start a second project, um this is is success. That's my own metric. For uh students, I think success really is how how the project has supported to advance their own personal or professional goals. Uh for example, how has working with the student helped set them up for success for the next thing they want to do. Is it that they want to go into the public humanities? They want to be a podcaster? They want to do or they want to do research for the government, or they want to go to graduate school. There are so many different goals that our graduate students and our undergraduate students bring to the work they do with us, and I think that success for me when we're having a student partners is ensuring that we push them further along that particular trajectory. For community partners, it it comes back to impact. Like, how well have they been able to uh meet some of their strategic goals? How well have they been able to communicate with new audiences, how well have they advanced the kind of teaching that they've wanted to do. Um and then for administrators and reviewers, I'm going to let somebody else take that. Who would like to do that? Maybe I can um add to that. Like I think for um success for administrators would be seeing kind of like that overall improvement or impact of these different initiatives, like whatever the grant was trying to achieve. Um for reviewers, I think having probably is more a little bit about that um you know, the feedback that they've given or what recommendations they made to um have that grant be a success um in terms of the competition itself. Um I think seeing it in actuality after would be very satisfying. Um community partners, I guess depending on what impact was originally set out um you know, it when when whatever was designed, um what was it um what was going to be the benefit to uh the community partners. I think it'd be very specific um and I think you've heard over the course of the last hour like some examples of some different um projects that came out and that did have a huge impact. I'm thinking of the one Michael talked about uh with uh um the videos and had a huge impact on you know, outside community partners and and on the community itself. Um Great. Any last thoughts on question 12? Yeah, Michael. Uh yeah, it's interesting to think of the assessment and evaluation. At our end, we're producing a material that we then hand off, but we always start a project when we first start and talk with people, we'll go through a creative brief process. So one of the big questions is what's what do you want to happen because of this thing that we're making. So who's the audience? What do you want the to be? And then tracking that and trying to figure out whether it happened at the end. And there are times where uh often built into TLEF grants, there is assessment and evaluation by learning designers and other staff, and we're always excited to hear about that. But um it's it's so powerful to to get operational about that and concrete about what Is it about views? Is it about some kind of behavior that will come out of viewing? Those kinds of questions are really uh important and and can really help us to know that we're being efficient in accomplishing what we're setting out to accomplish. Great. All right. Um so, I would just like to say that we are within 15 seconds of our 1-hour timing, which just is amazing for us. Um so, uh we wanted to leave the last 30 minutes to gather some questions on the Padlet. Okay, well, everyone is uh maybe still putting their questions up on Padlets. Uh I'm just going to look at the chat for a second. So, we have uh Will has posted to everyone to make a plug around project evaluation. CTLT's evaluation and research team is hosting an upcoming OER and TLEF evaluation workshop, uh but would be applicable for any teaching learning project regardless. And then they uh Will has dropped a link there. Thanks, Will. Okay, so uh I'm going to Let's Let's pick some questions off the Padlet. Let's go with uh We've got three upvotes for the question. Okay, you ready, panel? Tenure and promotion. Tenure and promotion are based upon evidence of impact, not activity. Grant dollars, student numbers, workshops put on, etc., all just show activity, but it's up to us to prove impact of that activity. What are the primary measures of impact that the grant dollars are gone, that they're used in the tenure and promotion process? If it is publishable in a journal, then there are traditional measures of citation, etc. Uh at what stage in the project should we determine impact measure that we will track? I think this uh is also dependent on what track you are, if you're teaching versus research track, right? Cuz there's different um maybe parameters around that, cuz I could see teaching track with your teaching portfolio, maybe some of this project work would be uh you could capture in there um versus research track. And and I'm not an expert at this, so I think Andrew probably is needed and probably better to answer. I'm [clears throat] not an expert at all. Um but I think the you know, demonstrating impact is is very difficult. Um uh but some of the things mentioned I think are impact. So, students that have engaged with something you've done is impact. Uh we can't, you know, it'd be great to show that if they hadn't received it, there would be some worse set of outcomes. That's extremely hard to demonstrate, uh I've learned, um but I do think that the number of students affected uh I think um joining panels and doing workshops and getting your work out there is also impact. I appreciate the question is like, is it really? Um but I think that's my understanding of the conception for educational leadership is that those do count. Um and that the ultimate impact on student learning uh and experience is exceptionally difficult to show. So, we kind of have to rely on these intermediate measures. Great. Thanks, Sandi and Dave. Yeah, I think for tenure and promotion, this is where like leaning a little bit on your colleagues, especially in the department that you're that you're with, because depending on your field, whether you're in the EL stream or research stream, those criteria are like really really different, right? So, I know in most cases, at least in sort of the departments that I've been affiliated with over the years, usually as you kind of progress in your career, you have the mentorship committee that can kind of help you guide these sorts of criteria and they will kind of highlight what might be um classified as the sorts of things you should be looking at for your particular area of teaching or research or what have you. So, I think that's kind of, you know, and especially these days, I think that the EL stream, that criteria and benchmarks, they're getting a more and more defined as time goes on. So, you hopefully might be able to to to think ahead about what what sort of rubrics you need to to kind of meet those those things. Great. Thanks, Dave. Biz? Yeah, and to build upon that, specifically having this conversation with your department head for your 502 meeting. So, that's the meeting that you have to make sure that you're on track for tenure and promotion. And when you're in that meeting, articulating to the head of your department what exactly your impact is, so that they can put the language of that into your letter to track what how you're being effective in exactly that regard. So, you defining your own impact, having your head reinforce that in those letters, and then demonstrating that you've met those expectations, I think can go a long way to ensure that some of the amorphous impact that we have is articulated in some way. Great. Thanks, Biz. >> [clears throat] >> Okay. Um so, let's move to a question. Uh how do you allocate your energy in sustaining past projects and starting shiny new ones? This This is This may seem like the bright time for this question. I can I I will take a crack at part of the question. Um I think it's natural to see the end of the granting period as the end of the project. Um but I think it's helpful not to see it that way. Obviously, there's always the "Can you extend the money a little bit?" But even setting that aside, um I think that the the impact part, right? The spreading what you've learned, even if you've learned from a failure, right? I still think that's extremely useful information. Um so, as much as the shiny new you should absolutely pursue, you want to keep a little wedge of time for a project that you've completed or have a check-in every 6 months to think, "Oh, is there more to do here? Uh more to share? Is there something to build on?" I I think that's a key point, too, about the building on it, cuz I think it's you might have had that one that uh you're wrapping up for that phase, and then you have the knowledge translation phase, but there also may be a potential spin-off or branching from that one that you have. So, I think it's you know, like it's not often one and done. It's often like you do one, and then there's something related that may come up. So, you can kind of slowly build. So, there's a lot of overlap thinking in terms of some of these grants and projects that I know for myself that I've worked on. Great, Dave. Um I I don't have an answer for this one. I think the the only thing I can advise is protect your bandwidth because so so really think hard about just sort of how full your plate is because if if you're if you're being overstretched and overwhelmed, that's going to affect how good you are. Yep. >> [laughter] >> And to jump in here on freezes. Oh, are you unfrozen, Dave? No? I think sorry. Hello? Did you Did you hear what I say? I don't know why. Did you hear what I say? The first part. Not the last part. The last 15 seconds, repeat. Last 15 seconds. Okay. I was just saying that if you're if you're if you're inadvertently overwhelmed because I I I suffer from the shiny new object issue as well, but ultimately if you're overwhelmed, that's going to affect your success in sort of going through these projects and and that has that trickle-down effect on the team and and the project itself. So, so it's it's not easy to do, but I I feel like I'm getting better at it as time goes on, but that that's a learned skill, just protecting your bandwidth. Yeah, for for me this came in the form of having a recent grant rejected and I actually felt like that was a bit of a gift and I was like, "Oh, thank goodness." And having that sort of shift take place where it's not that I'm always funded. I'm always applying for things and I get stuff because I'm constantly writing grant applications. I jokingly said to friend of mine that writing grant applications is my love language and it was just really true because I have all these community partnerships and I get really excited about them and then I want to write grants. But then when it's not funded, see like reframing that as as an opportunity to not spread yourself thinner, it really helped me rethink my capacity and bandwidth when it was a sign of when it was a relief that I didn't get funded. Thanks. Did anybody else want to jump in before we go to another question? Michael? Just one shot on the one thought on the shiny new thing. We really encourage people to in terms of new technology we've seen a lot of waves of new technologies over the years and and being really careful about choosing to move into new technology when there's a reason for it driven pedagogically and for in terms of your goals and not getting caught up in the shiny new thing in and of itself is something that comes to mind for me. So and best way to figure that out is to talk to people that have been working with the shiny new thing and see if it actually would accomplish what you're after or if it's really not going to be fruitful that way. It's one one factor to have in mind. Yeah, sometimes not so shiny in reality. Yeah. Right. Uh Or just uh it has a different effect than you would expect. You might think it's going to help you with a certain thing. Mhm. Okay, let's grab another Padlet question. So we have a question about resurrecting previous grant programs. So any suggestions for resurrecting previous grant programs that were finished years ago but are still relevant and could have impact. Usually they no longer have funding or specific staff associated with them anymore. I guess I'm unclear for this question if it's like a grant that was funded and then completed or or um I think it sounds like that, yeah. So maybe it's how to how to build on previous grant work, maybe continuing forward. I guess it's kind of like you almost need to go back to some of that earlier um elements we spoke about like in terms of sustainability um and doing that environmental scan. Um so I'd wonder, you know, like I guess if the project had been complete and was funded at the time um but then has kind of stagnated, I'd wonder what the original project was um you know, if it was educational innovation based like that didn't get it uh to be sustainable over time. Um so I think you know, like um you'd have to kind of reassess uh the current landscape and where it would fit in and if you were to do it um if there was a way to make it more sustainable. Um within our faculty we do have means I think to move projects forward that don't require funding. Um you know, we offer um you know, like the directed studies projects uh for our students so that they get course credit and get a bit of research or educational project experience. So that's an opportunity for them to take as an elective. Um so you know, there are kind of like opportunities like that to to do those to support them even if there is no funding available. Great. Thanks, Karen. Biz? Uh when it when it comes to uh scholarship on teaching and learning, I think this is a really exciting avenue to be to be revisiting um projects that have since concluded because as we're seeing with the uh with AI being adopted across the board and and how we have to teach change our teaching in the face of technologies emerging even within the classroom space where some of us are turning back to older pedagogical strategies that um were considered sort of outdated and defunct until this particular moment in time. So, I think that uh returning to some projects on teaching and learning that that that were outdated up until 2 years ago might be a really exciting avenue for advancing our teaching at this moment in time. Looking at how that context has changed, but what we can learn from teaching 30 years ago that we can then apply today. And so, I I I think that this moment where technology has evolved so much that we might actually have to revisit older ways of teaching. Um I that isn't quite your question, but it made me excited to think about those particular opportunities. That's awesome. Thanks, Biz. I do not want to go back to drawing drawing crossword puzzles by hand though. That would That's too far back. Um so, uh Michael, I might throw this one to you. There's a comment on the Padlet that says an example of this might be updating the look and feel of some media built say 10 years ago. Did you want >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's uh that comes up pretty often. We often the content is still fresh and relevant and important and the look and feel are dated and make it hard for students to take it seriously sometimes or just access it and yeah, it's a tricky one. I mean, there are times where all you can really do is just remake it. So, cuz video being what it is, you can't really refresh the look of an interview from too long ago, but um yeah, we we often get approached about this and we're always looking for creative ways to try to bring meaningful content into a a more current format that students find accessible. We talk about production quality as part of accessibility. Um my uh super our executive producer Saeed De Natkar [clears throat] said that to me years ago that part of accessibility is production quality. If it if it doesn't sound good or look good, students can't bear to get through it, especially now when the expectations are pretty high for video. So, that becomes a problem when there's content that's older and still relevant and necessary. So, um but yeah, it's also getting easier to make videos. So, remaking something is a lot easier than it was 10 years ago. So, that's something we'd be happy to explore with people. We have a lot of do-it-yourself studios that are sometimes a free and easy option or even just making a professional video is a lot easier and quicker and less expensive than it used to be. But yeah, it's a challenge. There's no simple answer except exploring what needs to be redone and how to do it. So, I did not have a quick answer to that. No, that's great. >> [laughter] >> Thanks. Um okay, let's take uh another question off the padlet. So, the question is um actually before we do this question, I'm just going to read out the chat. Um so, Jeff Miller says we had a TLEF project in pharmacy that was built upon previously funded project for virtual patients using GenAI approaches rather than descriptive virtual patient interactions. Materials from the previous year has been used in the project. Great. Thanks, Steph. It's a good example. Uh so, let's see on our padlet we have any advice on how to push innovations from a specific funded project towards broader university uptake, adoption, and use. Ooh, that's a million-dollar question. All right, panel, what do we got? I think um partnering with CTLT or ISIT or LTec or I'm sorry. I [clears throat] just said three acronyms, but I was assuming everyone knew them, but let's just say CTLT cuz we all know that one. That's the mechanism that I've seen be most successful, that they become resources that are sort of centrally supported or you know, software that becomes available to all UBC instructors. Um I think that that's not going to happen for every project, right? And and so it and it doesn't mean that the project isn't wasn't a good one or wasn't a success. There's capacity issues in all these units as well as the sort of breadth of applicability of a lot of the work we do. All right, thanks, Andrew. Michael? I'd come back to something that a few people have mentioned around just paying attention to the strategic goals of different parts of the university is really helpful. If you can find a way that it integrates or supports, then you're working with the momentum of something that's already happening instead of trying to forge a new path. And also just other programs, you know, is this already being done? Often UBC is such a big place. It might actually already be happening and you don't realize it. You may want to partner with what somebody else is doing. Great, thanks, Michael. Biz, did you want to read yours? Um Um I've seen this happen where people who are trying to get more uptake of their projects and asked to be invited to various meetings across campus. And so to like slowly grow your audience. So various departmental meetings, I think we had somebody come pitch a certain project to our department. Then there's the heads and directors meetings in the faculty of arts. If there's a kind of resource that might be really valuable for for that audience, you can sometimes get an opportunity to speak to them. Sometimes I see in the Faculty of Arts, the larger meetings, there's even um some sharing around different initiatives. So, just slowly build your audiences till you get enough buy-in. Um what would be one of my suggestions. Great. Thanks for that. I That was really helpful, Biz, and I I remember being a new faculty member and people would talk about networks and presenting your work and stuff and I thought, I know the four people in my department really well, the rest of them know me, and that's it, right? Like I had no awareness outside my department and that's normal and the notion of these networks, they do just kind of happen. You have to put yourself out there a little, but like it's not it sounds I think it for when you're new, it sounds really difficult and I think it's just happens with time and a bit of effort. So, don't feel thrown off if you're like, I don't have a network to share my stuff with. Yeah. Thanks, Andrew. Um Karen, can I have you speak to uh your your post there? Oh, yeah. No, I saw Jeff had um indicated our pharmacy project. So, um my uh first two TLEF uh grants, they were small a small ones, uh was incorporating virtual patients um into our pharmacy curriculum. Um so, we those are were kind of like interactive and at the time, like not compared to what you can do now, but at the time it was like very innovative um to allow the students to kind of practice their critical thinking skills. Um so, that was like years ago, probably I don't know, 5 or 10 years ago, like quite some time ago. Um and those become became integrated into our curriculum over the various years. Um so, when AI came out, um some of the instructors that had continued to use the virtual patients um ended up looking at uh ways that we could update that interface um with AI. Um so they uh led and I'm on that uh TLEAP and those are two large uh TLEAPs that the fact that um pharmacy obtained um creating these AI I guess like an AI bot. Um so they're using the um base of those virtual patients that we created and now putting them into like an AI so it's more um uh responsive I guess so the students can kind of like ask it questions and then it will respond and it's not as you know uh I can't I don't I don't know the technology enough like to like really you know explain it but you know like before it was like very set uh with the virtual patient interface the students might could click on different things if they were thinking task but now this is a bit more free form so the students may ask it a question um and then the bot will respond back uh with an answer. So it's quite innovative and really cool and it's nice to see um something that was incorporated before that has that potential to just be lost with the new technology coming out is instead um being kind of updated um so that we can continue to use it um in the curriculum. Right. Thank you. So if I'm correct I think we hit all of the Padlet questions. Um so we have about five minutes left. There there are some good comments in there some um acronyms. The uh so what we say we have arts instructional support and information technology. We've got learning technology and information center. Um so those are in there. Andrew. Um I we've touched on this a couple times but I just really want to highlight um when you get to the point where you're preparing a grant proposal uh and hopefully it's not the night before. Um it's really helpful to share it with someone outside your immediate field because when I was reviewing grants, there would be jargon that's really impenetrable and it would be for for an outsider and so then it would be an effort to like try and what are they actually talking about here and we'd have discussions on the committee. I think they mean this and that's just going to like some of those get funded but I think making the project as accessible to non-experts as possible um and I think we all struggle with we when we write something we look at it and we're like, well, that makes sense to me cuz I wrote it. So just getting a couple different eyes on it is really helpful and if you go to the TLEF page, there's past projects. You can probably find people that are have worked in that area before and I find most of our UBC colleagues very willing to share their expertise given chunk of time and not a panicked Agreed. Yeah. Good points. Any other um Let's see, Jeff Miller has put a link in for Oh, it's a TLEF. Great. So there's a link in the chat for that. Um for our just last couple minutes here, any other last thoughts anybody would like to share? Ainslie, did you have Can I just echo Andrew's the part of Andrew's response there. I've been amazed at how collaborative everyone at every level and aspect of the university is. So many times I've reached out just blindly and always been amazed at how generous people are with their knowledge and their time. It's very collaborative environment in a surprising way. So yeah, it's so worthwhile to just reach out and just ask questions and ask if you don't know the answer to this, do you know who might? You'll be amazed where you can land with that. Um so that was amazing. Well, I mean this has been an amazing panel. Thank you very much panelists and and Weaver. Um, these are we've we've added everyone here except me. Um, >> [laughter] >> which is fine. But if you do want to get in contact with CTLT, um, please feel free to email me and I can send you out to whomever uh, your question is about. Um, it's ainsley.camps@ubc.ca. And with that, um, I will say thank you for attending. And uh, we hope you will uh, attend more sessions this Celebrate Learning Week. And uh, thanks again everyone. Thank you so much for the panel. Thank you.