"Our Economy Is Breaking!" Andrew Yang Reveals The Biggest Threat To Money, Wealth, & Savings

Over the last number of years, we have automated away 4 million manufacturing jobs. And unfortunately, I'm here to say things are going to get much, much worse. >> Why did you decide to run for president? >> I've been trying to alleviate poverty, which I see as the most addressable major problem that we have. I have a lot of friends in Silicon Valley and I went to them and it was like, "Guys, is it just me? Are we going to eliminate millions and millions of American jobs and the response I got in private was like, "Oh yeah, what we did to the manufacturing workers, we're about to do to retail workers, fast food workers, truck drivers, and on and on through the economy." AI does not discriminate between the hardworking, conscientious truck driver or the drunk one. Like, it's going to get you either way. And so the question is what is the path for those people? We have to make America as optimistic about the future and they feel like they're included in it. If you don't do that, then you wind up with a very angry 80% that eventually gets the pitchforks out. >> Andrew Yang, thank you so much for coming on the iced coffee hour. >> Yes, I'm here. >> This >> Don't get Don't drink that coffee every day. >> This is so You have no idea. This is so exciting for me to do. I've been looking forward to this for, you know, months now at this point to try to get you on. >> You made some extremely bold statements back on Joe Rogan's podcast, predicting the future, and I recently looked back at it and everything you had said came true. How were you able to see these things before they came true? >> I've got a crystal ball, uh, my Yangstradamus crystal ball. Um I I have a lot of friends in Silicon Valley and I went to them in 2018 2019 and was like guys uh is it just me or are we going to eliminate millions and millions of American jobs? And the response I got in private was like oh yeah like that's definitely happening. And then I said are you willing to say that to the press? And like why would I say that to the press? Because all it's going to do is get me a spotlight I don't want. Um, but the folks who are conscientious were like, "Someone should do something about this." Uh, and I even said to them, it's like, "Someone should run for president on AI, fourth industrial revolution, universal basic income." And they would say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, someone should." And and then I asked, "Do any of you want to do that?" And they said, "Hell no." And then I said, "Okay, I'll do it. You guys should donate to my campaign, though." And they said, "How much?" And then I said the max at that time was only like 2,900 or something. So they So the better ones said, "Sure." Um, but that was the genesis um of both the campaign and my certainty that AI was going to eradicate a lot of American jobs. >> In which ways would you say you were most right? >> I feel pretty good about 98% of the case I laid out. The part I got wrong maybe in terms of emphasis was the sequencing where I did not talk about in 2019. Hey, we're going to eliminate all these entry- level white collar jobs and recent college grads grads aren't going to be able to get consulting jobs or whatever. Now, um that would probably have been a pretty uh lousy, unappealing political argument anyway cuz like no one cares about that population. And I would argue that they should cuz everyone's a person and everyone has professional aspirations. And if you end up uh let's say loading up a young person with tens of thousands of uh school loans and then they don't don't find a job um that's really really bad um for the individual and also for the economy and for society. But I was talking more about uh trucking jobs, call center jobs, bluecollar jobs when maybe I could have been talking more about white collar work. And so what's a career today that people think is safe but that you think is going to be replaced entirely? >> I the first thing that jumped into to my mind when you said that uh was lawyer. Um law school applications last I checked went up 21% last year. Uh and I would suggest that was um a flight to safety and that stuff's not safe at all. Uh law lawyering is highly structured. It's very processoriented. It's kind of the ideal environment for AI. And I have friends who are partners in law firms who say, "Look, I'm giving AI work that would have taken a second or third year associate a week to complete. It gives it back to me in 20 minutes. So why on earth would I hire a small army of these associates uh when you know like I can frankly keep the billables and the revenue and then go to my client and say, "Hey, great news. I got this done more cheaply." And then you had the savings because when you are a first year um law firm associate, which I was back in the um early 2000s, you're a cost center for the the first two years of your career. Um where the law firm is kind of eating cost to train you up and the incentive to do that is going to be non-existent for most of the big firms. I hate to say it, we run or at least I run a lot of the contracts through Gemini, Chachu and Grock, and it's surprisingly accurate. I still have a person reviewing everything who's a proper lawyer who could give me the the guidance, but so far the guidance that the AI gives me is almost the same as the actual lawyer who I'm spending like $300 to $400 an hour for. >> And it's slower with a lawyer. Like with Chad GBT, you could literally just upload a PDF and then immediately gets you back whatever you need to know. >> Yeah. And it's just like, what am I missing? Is this good? Is this bad? And it's called out so many red flags that I've later addressed and fixed for free. >> Yeah. Yeah. Law and accounting are two domains that are very very rules-based and really ideal for AI. Now, I'm with you. I also have a human lawyer. Um, but the what what happens is that you have relatively experienced attorneys who we're going to keep on using. Um, but the folks who are coming up now out of school are never going to get the training to become that person that you trust and that I trust to review AI's work. Um, so you're you're going to have a real chasm for law school graduates and college graduates uh starting essentially last year. >> Which jobs should young people pursue because they will be unaffected by AI? >> The jobs that are going to be unaffected. So writ large 44% of American jobs are either repetitive cognitive or repetitive manual. And those are the jobs you should uh try and steer clear of because those are the jobs that AI is going to decimate. Um so non-repetitive manual jobs um are still jobs that most people who are listening to this don't want. And the example I use is cleaning a hotel room. You're probably going to have humans cleaning hotel rooms for quite some time because having a robot recognize like a wine stain on the pillow or whatnot and then being able to manipulate all the odd-sized objects in hotel rooms a pain in the ass and the human is really inexpensive. Um, so you're going to have humans do those jobs for a long time. So if I say, "Hey, you should become a hotel cleaner." I mean, no one's going to take that advice, which, you know, I mean, that there are a bunch of jobs that resemble that that are persistent. Another one's a HVAC repair. Uh, it's very, very hard to get a robot show up to a structure and figure out what's wrong with the air conditioning unit. That's going to be a human. Uh, electrician, human for quite some time, though. Eventually, if you had a modern uh building, then it would become self monitoring and the rest of it, but you have a lot of old structures and a shortage of uh that kind of work. So, if you're handy, that stuff is a good idea. Uh the other stuff is non-repetitive cognitive, which you guys do, I do on a good day. So, so this is entrepreneurial, creative, um bossing the AI around. Um the issue is that we all like you all I mean you you have very successful uh media properties. Uh you've generated a ton of value through real estate like you know people tune in for your advice and congratulations >> to both of you for improving people's lives in this way. I'm very passionate about people's financial literacy and you guys are practitioners um which is to me awesome. Uh the question for someone again who's like 22 or 24 is like how do they get enough money together to have or audience uh to be able to uh live that kind of um create creative or enterprising or entrepreneurial journey. Um but that stuff's still going to be there. I mean there are a lot of inefficiencies still. Um so those are some of the more resilient jobs. If you look at a Microsoft report that came out a few months ago, uh this the the resilient stuff is like like sledge operators or you know uh people who have to change out the flooring or something like very gritty stuff that's very physical. Um the other jobs are jobs that interface with people all the time. Um so a teacher asked me, "Hey, do I need to worry about my job?" And I was like, "Teaching will be the last thing to go. We're not going to replace the teacher with like a screen and a >> really I don't >> why do we even need teaching? Like there's no point. I learned so much more and I can learn if I apply myself with ChadBubt to ask questions and learn. I can learn probably 10 times faster than in a classroom. People upload these entire master classes on Twitter and they spend hours just going over one specific thing that you could learn. You just got to watch the video. >> All right. So, the person who was asking me this question, this was on an NPR program that I was on a few weeks ago. It was like an eighth grade teacher, and the eighth grade social studies teacher said, "Is my job safe?" And I was like, "Your job is safe uh in so far as your uh community has budget for you and that there are still still kids. So, our birth rates going down, uh the number of kids showing up is uh is diminishing. And so eventually these um teachers unions and whatnot are going to be under downward pressure because you know it's just demographics. Um but in terms of right now um that school administrator or principal looking around that school and saying you know what you eighth grade social studies teacher I'm going to replace you with like that's just not going to happen because the incentives are not there for that uh individual administrator. Uh and there is a union in this case. So, some of the most um secure jobs are going to be unionized jobs. Now, that applies to about 10% of American workers, but you're going to see a real flight to to safety in that way. Like the law school degree is not the flight to safety. The flight to safety is, hey, is there going to be a union who demands that like for example, you know, a human radiologist needs to review this film and that it can't be AI? Um there there's going to be a lot of lobbying for uh persistent jobs. >> And how far do you think this should be allowed to go? Like can you see AI replacing people in courts or coming up with policy decisions? Because I could see a point uh you know at some level in the future where you go to court and it's just like this AI little beacon that you just you say your case to it and it processes and green or red. Red is jail. spits out a decision. >> It could be using John Cena's face or it could be using someone like very trust who would be like the arbiter of American justice >> just something but but like I know with with legal contracts it's just like I could tell when the other side is using chat GBT back to me and then I'm putting that in chat GBT. So it's just chat GBT negotiating against itself. You know what's funny is that reminds me of the the dating apps is that dating apps learn your behaviors and then so over time you could have AI to AI chatting and then they could determine your compatibility. >> We came up with this idea a while ago. It's called the perfect match. But when AI has enough information about you and your preferences, it can match you with anybody in the world who it believes is your best match. Cuz statistically there's one person in the world who's the best match from everybody. Well, they they could essentially have two folks simulating each other and then they could play out years of relationship. True. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. For just for marriage, for business partnerships. >> Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of me out there. So, AI simulating me. Like, I've seen it. It's pretty eerie. It's pretty good. The first time when I was running for president and they said, "Look, we want to write an email in your voice." I was like, you know, you can't do that. And then they did it and I was like, "Oh, it's actually pretty good." And this is even this wasn't even a AI at the time and then AI came along and then um you know the Andrew Yang simulations are are not half bad. Um so you're hitting uh something I think is very very important Graham which is uh disability decisions for example there are hundreds of thousands of them each uh year and you could have AI determine who's being um frankly like uh who who's showing flags for fraud who who's honest like you could do a lot of stuff uh and that would be much more efficient on the part of the government. Um the problem right now is that uh the government has no incentive to replace itself with AI because that would decimate their own jobs. Uh there there's no lobby for either um better decisions or better government efficiency. Um and so there there are all of these inefficiencies. The healthcare sector is going to be very similar. Highly unionized environment. Uh a lot of that money is public money. But if you go to one of these hospital environments, let's say, and I use radiology as an example, let's say AI could hypothetically do a better job than human radiologists, which arguably it could today. Um, what's happening is the uh the medical lobby's like, hey, it's all well and good, but you need a human being to review the film at the end, which then sounds reasonable to everyone. And so there's going to be legislation being like, needs to be a human at the end. No, that's a job preservation move. Um, and there are going to be tons of those sorts of moves. Uh, even if AI could theoretically do the job, this is goes back to the teaching example. Say, hey, AI could teach that group of students. As a parent myself, I know that a lot of the stuff that a teacher does is actually behavior management and regulation. Then AI would have a lot of um, difficulty with just keeping 13-year-old from running out of the room and stuff like that. Like if you had the screen, like you'd have chaos. And so you you you kind of need the human. Um but it's around organizational incentives. It's one reason why I made the predictions I made is that if I'm a uh like a corporation and I have 2,000 call center workers, it is 100% in my interest to automate those customer service uh workers. I'm going to save money and they're non-unized. So if I made a prediction, I'm like, "Look, that stuff's going to go by like that." But then you put me in a hospital or a school, I say, "Wait a minute, there are all these political pressures." And the incentive for this organization to actually deliver things cost efficiently is really low. It's one reason why everyone's frustrated with aspects of government. It's like if I were to say to you, I could deliver disability decisions at a tiny fraction of the cost, which is probably true by the way, the government would be like, "Well, whoopdedy damn do." Like like what am I going to do? Like fire all my employees who are all unionized and are there. um like I don't care if you can do a better job with the decisions. I don't care if you can save me money. Like we're just going to do it this way. Um and you can go throughout um the public sector and find examples of that. >> But that sounds very doomer mentality for the viewer there. On the flip side, if they're listening to this and just feeling completely helpless when it comes to AI and how they're going to lose their jobs, lose their significance, not make any decisions for themselves, what's the best way someone can leverage today's AI landscape for their own advantage? Now, honestly, with all that goes on in day-to-day life, nutrition can often be one of the hardest things to prioritize. Whether you're stopping for fast food or microwaving your favorite frozen meal, poor eating habits tends to lead to a whole bunch of negative side effects. That's exactly why we are so excited to be partnering with Hule. Hule eliminates the hassle of cooking without sacrificing your health or your bank account. 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You got the powder for more flexible or customized meals, and they're ready to drink for busier days. Honestly, it's just a super simple way of staying on track with protein and overall nutrition without needing to plan every single meal. I kid you not. Every single morning I go for a walk, I drink my Hule. Every single morning without fail, I get in protein, vitamins, minerals, it tastes great, and I feel amazing. Now, if you want to try it for yourself, you can get 15% off at hule by using our code iced5 at hule.com/ic15. This offer is for new customers. Thanks again to Hule for partnering with us and supporting our episode. What's the best way someone can leverage today's AI landscape for their own advantage? I think you guys are an example of it again. Now, if you were to say to someone watching this like, you know, would I trade places with the two of you that they, you know, 99% of them, I'm sure, would like that. Same with me. The people who who hang who follow me, I think, are hoping that, you know, like I'll help them um in inform their futures. Uh what you want to do is the the simplest way to think about what's happening, and you've actually written about this, Graham, um where you have this K-shaped economy. Yeah. So you have the top 20% are then taking off to the right and that crew is going to be the crew that leverages AI in various ways. um whether that's through their media and getting a following whether it's through a business um whether it's through real estate investment or anything else like if you can use the tools the three things I think of it's AI it's money it's attention uh and if you have a combination of those three things then you can become superowered if you're absent any all of or absent all of those things and it's like a real struggle. Now, when you ask what someone should be doing, uh to me, they need to try to uh adopt many of the financial principles you guys talk about to try and put enough money together so that they wind up one of the beneficiaries uh of the AI wave. >> So, if we're going to break that down, you said money. How much money do you need? >> Well, you I mean, you you know, you know what it takes to be in the top 20% of Americans. Um so, that should be the goal. Now, that that may or may not be realistic, but at every life stage, you can try and position yourself in that direction. It's one reason why I think you guys do what you do and I do what I do. Um, and I I'm sure we because we have a lot of time to talk, but like I I can talk about um what I'm doing right now with Noble Mobile, which I think will save people, you know, $500 to $1,000 a year, which then if you extrapolate that over >> compound interest. Yeah. But what do you think about Elon Musk's statement that money is not going to matter because we're going to become so efficient at things that you're not going to need money in the future? >> So, uh, I if you look at the top line, Elon may be correct. The issue is how all of this value gets transferred to the people who are watching this at home, uh, to the former Uber driver, to the former customer service worker, to the 22-year-old who's coming out of college and is like, "Hey, no one wants to hire me." like how does that person enjoy the bounty? And to me, the logical way that that person enjoys the bounty is some sort of public policy. Um, now there there are issues with different um methods. When I ran for president, I said, "Look, let's just give everyone a,000 bucks a month, no questions asked. Call it a day." I mean, not even call it a day. It's like, you make that a starting point. Uh and in my mind um all of the things that work uh provides around um community, training, structure, purpose, fulfillment, that is not replaced by a,000 bucks or whatnot. You know what I mean? Like the thousand bucks is enough so you can u make ends meet. Actually now it would probably be higher because uh 1,000 bucks is what it 2,000 a month. >> It probably would be 2,000 a month. Wait, so explain the $1,000 a month for skeptics who just think it's free money. >> My argument uh is that capitalism functions best when people can actually participate in the consumer marketplace. And so this is capitalism where income doesn't start at zero. I came up with $1,000 a month uh one because it was simple and at that time the poverty level was maybe um $17,000 ahead. And so it's like look, we get you like twothirds of the way there. Um something along those lines. cuz I also did the math and thought $1,000 a month was feasible given uh the budget of the government, the size of the economy, like a bunch of other things. Uh so Elon's argument is look uh AI is going to create trillions of dollars of commercial value, which it surely will. >> Um now again, what I would like to suggest to folks is like right now who's going to get those trillions of dollars? it's acrewing to the stock value of OpenAI and Alphabet uh and Nvidia and the other major players. >> And so there's like a narrow band of Americans who might be shareholders uh in those companies who right now are seeing their stock portfolios go up and up and up. >> Um but that does not describe the 22-year-old or the former customer service uh representative or or all those people. So what I was saying is like look, let's take some of the bounty from AI and transfer it quickly and broadly to the general public in a way that doesn't differentiate, doesn't stigmatize, doesn't means tests. Like look, we're we're transitioning from scarcity to abundance. And we need to make people feel included as quickly as possible because if you don't do that then you wind up with a very angry 80% that eventually gets the pitchforks out um and gets really really angry at whoever the winners are in the new world. >> Seems like that's already happening though. It seems like right now wealth is considered bad. >> Yeah. And it makes me super sad. Um so my parents immigrated to this country. I'm the the child of Taiwanese immigrants and uh they believed that you know America was the land of opportunity and it's the American dream and they came here for a better future for me and my brother and it worked. Um and so I thought you know America is awesome. We can just uh roll up our sleeves and work hard and like make a good life. Um, and now people feel like the system's rigged in a way that, um, uh, stigmatizes folks who have made a lot of money. And that makes me very, very sad. Um, because if you don't think you have a shot, don't think the system's fair, um, then it uh, it takes the American dream and makes it seem out of reach for most people. And I'm a numbers guy, so I get it. I mean, if the average age of a home buyer is uh what is it now? >> I hear different statistics now. I thought it was like home buyers over the age of 70 outnumber those at 35. >> Yeah. And like I I saw like the average age of a first-time home buyer was like way too old to make sense. It might have been like 42 or something. You're like, "Well, that's not cool." >> Um and so if a young person looks up and says, "You know what? >> American dream is It's out of reach for me. Like I can work hard. I cannot work hard. It doesn't make a difference." Like that is super um the opposite of what you want. Like you want an environment where someone's like look if I kick ass and work hard uh and adopt um you know sound financial principles in my own life. Like you know I can make it whatever making it means um for most Americans making it probably involves owning a home. Um which you know it's like I know you guys might have different advice on that. I was a renter for a long time, so I was like cool with that. >> I was living in New York and I guess that's, >> you know, pretty standard. >> I mean, that's a whole different vein that I'm sure Graham would love to go down. But first, I'm curious to how much of that is mentality versus actual reality? Because the way I see it is there's more opportunity right now than there's ever been in American history. But more people feel like the odds are stacked against them now than they ever did in American history. So, it makes me wonder like what is the reality? the way I see it and from all of the people I talk to, everyone's saying it is as easy as it's ever been to get rich. >> You know, again, I I look at the numbers uh and if you were born in the ' 60s or 70s, the odds of you doing better than your parents were, you know, like 80%. I think it was like 94% if you were born in the 60s. I mean, skyhigh. And then you start getting into the '9s and then it gets to 50% and then starts going below. So statistically the odds of a kid doing better than their parents are are now sub 50%. In a way that was not true when I was growing up. Um so uh in my mind you should have an attitude like look you could give me any% and I'm going to make it. Like you tell me the top you know 30% going to make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it I'll be in the top 30%. You tell me it's 20 I'll be in the top 20. you know, because there's no upside to putting yourself in like the bucket where you're not going to make it or the deck is stacked against you. I mean, that that that stuff is >> um it's not uh helpful, you know? You know, you just want to I mean, um one of the things uh that I took to heart when I was younger, it's like look, if you believe you can succeed or you believe you can fail, you're probably right. >> That's 100% true. 100% true. It seems like from my perspective though, anyone can make it, but it seems like the people who do have a smaller chance of making it, but when they do, they can make way more money. >> Well, that that's the truth. I mean, shoot, we might wind up with the first trillionaire in human history. Uh, >> I think Elon Musk has so many incentives to hit the 1 trillion net worth. >> Yeah, which is a crazy number that you would have thought. I mean, heck, a billionaire seemed like a crazy number not that long ago. And then now you might have have um it's probably Elon or Jeff Bezos would be the two candidates for it. So you have these extreme outcomes. By the way, in my mind, this is a real problem for young people adopting sound financial principles because you look at it and you say, "Okay, I need like a higher variance strategy in order to get into the winner circle." And so then you start seeing more aggressive behaviors and more speculative behaviors because it's like if I make >> 12% like I'm not going to pat myself in the back. I got I got to roll the dice for something higher. Um whereas you know for me it's like you made 12% like >> well that's why young people are taking significantly more risk because they see it as their only viable option out of just mediocrity or that middle and they feel like they have to take extreme risk to get to the top. >> And that's it's a narrative. It's not reality. Like technically speaking in the middle is way more comfortable than it was to be in the middle 50 years ago. >> Yeah. I I think you're right that what is it? Uh comparison is the death of joy or something like that. Your thief of joy. You have you have uh >> social media obviously bombarding you with images of what success um looks like. >> And then you have people advertising their outsized winnings all the time, whether it's uh crypto or some investment or even some sports bet I made. You know, like I mean like that sounds pervasive. I mean, it it makes me sad and a little bit angry that I can't watch ESPN or any of the sports programs without someone telling me how to bet. And I'm just like, come on, man. I mean, like, and by the way, the numbers show that >> uh when you legalize online sports betting in a state, um in like uh investment behaviors go down because when I gamble, I actually invest and save less. And also, this is going to be super depressing, but domestic violence goes up by I think it's um 12%, 15%, something along those lines. And we all know what that chain of events was, which is that someone made a bet on a game or a parlay or something and then it doesn't go right and then they get super mad. Um, so you you can tell that there are negative um macro effects um from the legalization of online sports betting, but then if I go on social media or turn on ESPN uh like I just see it's like oh shoot like you know DraftKings, FanDuel and the rest of it. Um so there are all these forces that I think are pushing higher variance. What's interesting is that uh we have a mastermind group called the index and we meet every quarter and we met a few days ago and we were talking about why certain items are going up in price so much. I'm talking like Rolexes, Pokemon cards, certain cars and one of the theories was that because young people are not buying houses and they feel like certain things are out of reach like buying a house, something price less is more attainable. And that might be buying a Rolex, spending the money on a car instead because for them a house isn't even an option. But they could get that brand new Corvette or they could buy that $15,000 Rolex and for them that's the new signal of success than buying a house. >> Yeah. I generally think that um most people are rational and when they're doing things that seem aggressive or irrational um I try and figure out why they're doing it. uh and um and I think um there's actually some hidden rationality in the risk-seeking behaviors because the conventional u method um maybe they don't believe in it anymore or the timing doesn't work out for them and so they do things that uh you know like I wouldn't have done when I was their age but then when I look at it um because when I was coming up too so I don't know how much about my background you guys know but uh I uh sold a company when I was in my um early to mid-30s and and made seven figures. And so at that point I was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm like a 34 year old millionaire. I can do no wrong." >> And then um decided to become a bit of a dogoodter. Um started an entrepreneurship organization. It's one reason why I love what you guys do in terms of trying to help >> um people live better financial lives. Uh I became convinced that entrepreneurship was what was going to get America um out of its mess. But um I I so my income might have been like you know low middle low middle low like high like zero like it like my income varied wildly from year to year. So I I always acted like whatever money I was making might disappear tomorrow. Um, and uh, I should be swinging for uh, significant wins as opposed to um, you know, like worrying about um, this expense or that expense. So, it's kind of easy come easy go. Um, I you guys read Nate Silver? >> Mm-m. No, >> you you'd like him. Um so he he wrote a book called On the Edge um about risk-taking and he talked about people who gotten lucky, gamblers who got lucky and then they sort of gamble assuming they're they're going to be fortunate. Um you guys are an example of this in my opinion where there's this um experience of abundance where like you have a bet then it works out and you have a bet it works out and you invest in the business it grows you like do this the audience get gets bigger you know just keep on growing. Um for you it probably started out with um real estate sales. >> It did. >> Yeah. And then you know the first thing you sold maybe was like you know x00,000 and then like eventually got to a million. The first million sale you were like oh crazy. >> Yeah. My first sale was $3,550. >> Well I guess maybe your first thing was crazy. Yeah. That's that's that's way high. Yeah. >> So, um so you wind up taking um these bets and these risks because enough of them have worked out where then you can just keep on progressing. Uh and um that that's a very different set of behaviors than um a lot of folks who are hoping for you know a 4% raise from year to year and like are are just trying to put a little bit of money away. So what Nate differentiates uh between is the the river which is what I'm describing. It's entrepreneurs, investors, financeers, also gamblers. And then there's the village which is uh I'm a teacher. I'm a I work for the government. Um you know um postal worker like where it's like a stable environment and I might make a smidgen more next year than I do. and and um he said that these two groups are kind of at odds with each other culturally and increasingly politically. Um anyway, so uh I realized from reading Nate's book, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm like a river person because I took a bet on my business doing well in my early 30s and then when it did do well, then all of a sudden, you know, you get this windfall that um most people will never experience. 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So, again, I'm a numbers guy and when you put money into people's hands in various environments, uh, and so there there was like a Native American tribe that had a natural experiment because they had a casino and some families got money and then some families didn't. And so then you look to see what happened to the families that got money. Uh and you had very very uh low rates of um well so what did they spend the money on? It was food and um education and uh like uh in some cases socking away for the future. Um, but the most positive things you could identify were that families in the that got the money, their kids grow up with much higher levels of two traits, conscientiousness and agreeableness. And so those traits map to if I do the right thing at home, something good happens. Um, if you're in a home environment where doing something good bad doesn't really matter to your outcome, you know, like you don't get rewarded, your allowance doesn't go up, your parent doesn't say good job or whatever, then so conscientiousness and agreeableness correspond to success in life. Um, they they correspond to successful marriages. They correspond to being a decent worker. You show up and like you actually expect to have to to do the work. And if you don't do the work, then you know then there'll be consequences. Um so studies have have consistently shown that's the kind of thing that the money enables. Um would more people start businesses if everyone had a,000 bucks a month? Of course in in part because you just have more middle classish customers uh to be able to cater to. Right now businesses are bifurcating where you have the K-shaped economy and it's like look if I cater to the top 20% um I could have a good business and then if I cater to like the you know the bottom um whatever 50% maybe I can have a good business. I want to share an example and this might be very specific but I have some friends of extended family in Canada and they practically live off the welfare system there and they don't work and they hang out all day. They smoke weed, they play video games, they get drunk and I've talked to them about this before like, "Hey, why don't you work?" "Oh, because if I work I lose these benefits or if I make a certain amount I don't get all this free stuff. So, it's actually better for me not to work and just live off this. It was probably like 1,300 a month of like what they were getting, but that was plenty for like a rural part of Canada. How do you prevent that not from happening here? Or do you just accept that some people will fall into that and that's okay because at least they're happy. They're staying to themselves. They're not hurting anybody. Let them be. >> I would say two things. Um the first is that um you should not have a system that ever discourages someone from going out, kicking ass, baking money. And right now you do have that system in the US. Sounds like in Canada where um when I was running for president, a woman came to me in Iowa and said, "Hey, I'm disabled. Uh I want to volunteer in my community, but I'm afraid to because I'm afraid that I'm going to lose my disability benefits as a result." Uh there are millions of Americans who are in some kind of situation like that where if I make a certain amount of money, you'll take the benefits away. If I show that I'm able-bodied, you'll take the benefits away. I'm going to suggest that that is terrible and messed up and that woman should be able to go have a bake sale or whatever the heck and not be concerned we're going to take money away. >> So that that's why you need uh a less negative um incentive structure. like what I was um campaigning on the freedom dividend was like look I'm going to give you a thousand bucks you make more money sure you know like I'm I'm not it's like like I don't want to punish you for being successful and right now a lot of the way government programs are designed do have this perverse incentive where if you do better you get less um if you if I give this to you into the second point so if I give this to you I personally Andrew Yang would love it if you went out there and used it to start a business and kick some ass and like you know you don't just chill out at home playing video games all day. But um I think that is up to you. Uh you know my hope is that you'll want to get a girlfriend and you know like do good things and most girls aren't that into it if if you're at home in the basement playing video games all day. Um, I tell tell, by the way, I have a 13-year-old and a 10-year-old and I tell them all the time like, "This is not a path to, you know, getting girls." That one of them will be like, "What if I beat a girl who just loves playing video games all day?" I was like, "Yeah, good luck with that." Like, that's unlikely. Um so uh part of it is that we've all contributed to the development of AI in some minute fashion where the um the data that's getting sold and resold every year if you had to put a dollar value on it even um putting aside the the value of AI the direct market value of the data that gets sold and resold in America every year is in the hundreds of billions of dollars a year and that most Americans don't see a dime of that obviously. because it's just, you know, getting siphoned off the top. Then if you include AI, then you could ratchet that value up significantly if you play out the value of AI over time. And so that person in rural um North Dakota or whatnot, >> Canada. >> Yeah, Canada. I was picking American but >> like and that's why um I called it the freedom dividend is like look this is your dividend from all the awesome progress that we're making here in the states and I would like you to do certain things but hey it's yours like one of one of the comparisons I made was that most major companies let's say Microsoft um they pay a dividend every 3 months to their shareholders you guys because you're experienced investors actually enjoy the dividending income that that various companies send you. And not once has one of those companies turned to you and been like, "Hey, I really hope you don't use that money uh to like get a hot tub >> or whatever." Like, you know, you're a shareholder, you get the money, like get yourself a hot tub, do whatever. I mean like I I what I was trying to say was that we should apply that kind of ownership model to our data to being an American um societywide. >> Sure. But isn't wealth technically only significant due to how wealth is relative? Like for example, it's all about buying power. If you have more wealth, you technically only have more buying power because you have more wealth than those beneath you that have less wealth. Not beneath, but like So, if you give if you give everyone $1,000, then doesn't no one have $1,000 effectively? Like, how are you going to ensure that that doesn't just cause massive inflation and then everything just goes up 10 15%. Why would a landlord not just charge more money if he knows his tenants getting an extra thousand? So that this is um this is uh an in-depth conversation that I I enjoy um where if you look at uh inflation in American life, it tends to be centered uh in a few sectors. Um and those sectors are you probably can guess them all. Um housing, education, healthcare, and you use landlords for a reason. And then you have things like clothing, media, electronics like that are getting cheaper in some cases or the same. And and so when you start digging in, you think, okay, why is it that um insurance is always more expensive? Like no one listening to this has ever gotten a note from their insurance company being like, great news, your insurance policy is less this year. It's one reason why like health care is is eating the economy is because the entire business model is like, I'm going to charge you more this year. I'm going to charge you more. I'm going to charge you more and and then you know makes employers be like, "Oh shoot, if I give you healthcare, it's going to end up breaking breaking my back in various ways." So you have certain parts of the economy that are allowed to ratchet up prices all the time because you're captive. You have no choice. Uh colleges have been like that for a long time. Um because it wasn't the family necessarily paying out of pocket. It was that you had this giant government program. It's like look, I'm going to put this money out and then I'm also going to convince you that whatever you pay, this is good debt. you you can pay what whatever for this college degree and it's going to work out. Obviously that is now um being questioned rightfully. Uh and so the things you'd have to separate really it's like look if I put money into your hands certain things certain sellers are going to be like you have more money let me try and ratchet up the price but then there are other um other industries where it's still super competitive where um if you know like the cost of McNuggets for example might not shoot up by thousand bucks because it's like a highly competitive marketplace and so what you'd want to do is you'd want to try and introduce market dynamics and discipline into the really dysfunctional um segments that you've seeing you're seeing mostly inflation in. Um and so then that leads you to like okay why is it that the cost of healthare keeps going up and up regardless of what happens. Why does the cost of college keep going up? Why does the cost of housing keep going up? And then you realize that there are different things that are making those things more expensive than than money in people's pockets. >> I would argue that government intervention is causing those prices to go up. And when you look at housing, as soon as the government got involved and subsidized mortgages, people were able to access bigger mortgages at lower rates to buy more house, which increased mortgage rates and increased the mortgage size. >> Also, to housing and making it difficult to build. If it was easier to build, you'd have a much larger supply. Also with student loans, as soon as the Department of Education got involved, you see admin just go through the roof and then colleges charged exactly the amount that the government would subsidize and it just seemed like that pushed it up. So if government intervention >> that is my that is my my big point which is that the things that are driving the costs in these sectors are um often born of the government and policies and those are the things you want to attack and get to the root of um as to why certain costs are going out of control. Um but then they're two different issues. It's like those things didn't get super expensive because everyone got rich uh you know like they got just distorted. Um, and so you want to like I'm all for loosening zoning restrictions, for example, because like that might make the housing market like I'm all for trying to figure out like, hey, what are the I mean, what was Trump's idea? 50-year mortgage and like >> 50 mortgage that didn't make it made zero sense. So, by the way, I I know you I mean you and I and you know, the three of us knew that immediately. I actually put out a tweet making fun of it where I was like, "A 50-year mortgage is a good idea. You know what's an even better idea? Aundred-year mortgage." You know, but you know what's crazy is reading the comments, how many comments were for the 50-year mortgage and said, "Thank you. Finally, this is a solution. This is exactly what we've needed. Finally, big W. Trump." And then when he said you could pull out money from a 401k to buy, everybody was for it. And it just seems like why is there such a a a distance between like what's factually and mathematically correct and what people think? And it seems like you threw out ideas that sound great and people just go for it. >> Oh, yeah. that that's that's this era. And I, by the way, like and I I've put this out there too. I love when anyone in power, Trump included, is doing something uh trying to make life more affordable or like like reducing the cost of various things. I love uh the Trump um savings accounts for newborns. It's like, you know, you argue against that and people be like, "Oh, it's not It's like, you know, sure, shoot, it's something like, you know, thousand thousand bucks per kid and then Michael Dell threw in another 250 for, you know, like a bunch of kids in Texas. Yeah. It's like, well, you know, no, you can't be mad at that stuff. >> Um, so he's uh taking swings at trying to make housing more affordable and we're seeing what is and is not possible. I mean, 50 mage, dumb idea. 401k stuff, you know, also it's like, you know, like I >> risky but Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like taking a different risk >> risky. >> Yeah. It's like I mean that one was a chin scratcher. I was like how do I feel about this? >> I said the coin flip. >> Yeah. But but so you um so I'm enjoying that aspect. Um like the the >> actual problems have been allowed to fester over you know years and years where like when when you um adopt certain policies and then you come back 30 years later you know things have got >> um very distorted. And so when you're trying to undistort them, then some of the um solutions like you know like the things he's doing like some of them aren't awesome. But what you would actually need is a time machine. You would actually need to go back in time and be like, "Hey guys, like maybe we shouldn't be subsidizing certain things so much or we should be loosening housing um uh production. Uh and I know I think Austin has been a real success story where they they've built and then rents have gone down. Um so it shows that good leadership and policy could actually make a difference. What did you think about Doge? Were you optimistic going into it? You said that you loved targeting those really expensive government programs that waste a lot of money. And I feel like that was kind of the idea going in. >> Yeah. I mean, I I I think I'm someone who was sympathetic to the goals of Doge and then was like very unhappy with the actual implementation. And I I think that describes a whole lot of people. Uh you know, I think a lot of business people were like, "Wow, this is interesting." Like I I do sense that there's a lot of bloat and excess in there. And then it's like, "Wait a like you know the the way they went about it I thought was um not the right way and it made me sad because uh you know some of the goals I think Americans uh are on board with including even earlier Democratic administrations who you know you can find clips of um Bill Clinton or Obama being like you know we need to root out waste I mean who likes waste there's a lot of waste I mean we all all know that >> do you think they could ever fix waste in the government >> I've looked at this in in some detail >> yeah it just it just seems like this would be the highest highest ROI activity. Like we talk about cancelling income tax and when you look at how much the US makes from income tax and the amount that's allegedly lost to fraud, you could practically cancel out a lot of income tax and be a net the same. >> It was like 0 to $600,000. >> $650,000 zero taxes >> if you got rid of fraud. >> Yeah. I mean that that's something Americans should get on board with. >> At this point, we should be able to at least knock out like half. I'm I'm going to say I'm going to say something that people are are going to dislike intensely as someone who looked at this. So, check it out. >> I've run private businesses. Um, and so some people who run for president who have a business background like me might say, "I'm going to run government like a business." Uh, and that sounds good to business people, but they're very different things. They have like different goals and and um um different structures. And so if you were to be in charge of government and run it like a business, you know what you would do pretty quickly? You would increase uh the the size and efficiency of the IRS because you know you invest a billion in IRS agents, you probably goose um receivables and by the way reduce fraud. Like if I were to spend a you know like and I could have a bounty system. I could have like a you know like by the way you could also have a tax holiday which I totally would have done. It's like, look, if you've been playing fast and loose for a number of years, it's cool. Just come clean and then we'll like divvy it up. We're not going to throw you in jail. We're just going to like, you know, true size it like, you know, like give you like a slap on the wrist and like take 30%. Like I was going to do I wanted to do things like that because like, you know, I'm not look we we're not going to change the rules on you retroactively. I'm not going to like shaft anyone. But if you were to run it like a business, that would be a phenomenal investment just because >> that's what a lot of people say because I've seen that point and I agree with you. But at the same time, people say, "Well, why should I be paying taxes when all that money is going to this waste?" Like, why target me who's like trying to work and make money when like these people over here are basically just stealing it and wasting it? >> I would a thousand% agree with that. And I I would have been the first person to be like, "Hey, look, um, and by the way, I've been on Capitol Hill. I've hung out with, you know, senators and presidents, next presidents and whatnot. As soon as they get in there, their actual desire to try and um, uh, shrink government. It's like, you know, it it's very, um, minimal like they they don't care that, you know, like that they become enscconced in this circuit of fundraising, dinners, and like the the rest of it." like the and the money becomes an abstraction as soon as you're in Capitol Hill in part because the numbers are so big. But I would have taken joy and been like, look, here's here's what we're going to do. We're going to ratchet up um the uh ability for our government to catch fraudsters. And that includes people who are right now wasting government money in like a whole million ways. And we all know that exists that it's coming out in dramatic fashion. Yeah. You know, right now in various quarters. Um and I I would have said like that's my responsibility. Go dollar for dollar. It's like anything I ask you to do, I'm going to ask us to do. Um and then I'd like to beat it because I have like a you know a huge bloated budget to work with. And anyone who's realistically taking a shot at this, and this is one reason why we're so lost, anyone who's really taking a look at this would also include the military in this. Um, and I have a high school buddy who was an Air Force Academy graduate and he said like his worst day of the year is was when he flew over the ocean just dumping um uh oil and gas into the ocean because and then I asked like any normal person would just like why the do you do that and he was like well because if we spent less on fuel in any given year then our budget would shrink the next year so we're going to use the amount of fuel that's budgeted. We've heard so many stories of basically exactly that of waste within the military of of just purposely going and spending money on things you don't need just to be able to get that budget and more the next year and if they didn't hit that they just get a lower amount and they may as well just waste the money and get a higher amount. >> Yes. So you have the biggest efficiency zars um in DC but then be like oh I can't touch the military. >> Why does it why does it work like that? Because in any other business, it wouldn't be like, you know, hey, if I don't spend all of my money this year, I'm not getting more. Why does it work like that for the government? >> So, the the big thing, the the big yang word I want to leave everyone with from this conversation is incentives. That like that that's what is driving us crazy. That's what's making government not work is that you have very very powerful incentives um for let's say each member of Congress. The military, shockingly, has a base uh or some kind of um like uh economically um generative thing in every congressional district in the country. Now, why is that? Does it just make sense to have 435 different, you know, factories or bases, they do it so that every single member of Congress benefits from military expenditures in terms of jobs they can point to. Um, so if you have an incentive structure, let's say I, President Yang, would be like, "Look guys, I love this country. We ought to be able to defend it. We got to be able to do awesome stuff, but there is a ton of bloat in the military and uh, let's take a look at it. Let's try and like get some expenses out. Like these things don't make us safer, for example. Maybe I can find, by the way, you any reasonable person could find a whole host of things that we're doing that have nothing to do with our actual readiness or effectiveness, etc., etc. Uh but then the incentives are like I'm going to reduce the spend in someone's district and then that person then is like why am I I have to fight this because you know like you're going to reduce jobs at my base. You can reduce jobs at that munitions factory. You're going to reduce jobs at at X and Y. So as soon as you end up running a foul of someone's political interests, then they they'll fight you tooth and nail. Um, and and if I go to the American public too and say, "Hey, I'm going to reduce military spend." Like 50% of Americans would be like, "Screw you." Like that's terrible. I'm like promilitary. I can be like, "Look, I'm promilitary, too. I'm, you know, I'm like not, you know, I'm like I Anyway, I can stop there. But people get it like that. There's like a um there's if you were serious about trying to curb excess spending, like military would be included." So, here's a theory that we've always joked about on the podcast, and I love mentioning this to anybody in office because hopefully one day we'll actually get done. 10,000 accountants all auditing the IRS and also the government budget, seeing where the money goes. If we had some sort of registry or forum database where you could go in, see how much money is actually going into the IRS and then line item where is it being spent. If some random agency in some department in some state and whatever needs to buy some televisions, I want to be able to see where our money is going and which televisions we're buying. And are we paying way above MSRP? Because realistically, we all know that there's some extra fee, extra buffer. We've heard of like the $22 muffins or cupcakes that was served at this one bathroom and the $20 per ounce Starbucks coffee that was being provided at some random government agency party. And so if we actually had some sort of database where you could see line by line what is being spent, then you have a million YouTube journalists that are all going to look through it and find a bunch of stuff and expose a bunch of fraud, a bunch of waste. And I think that that would be perfect. Once you have that, then you could have someone who runs for office campaigns on the idea of I'm going to just go in and just cut out all of these things that we all agree is wasteful. Like if you just actually we give our money to the government, their job is transparency to us. they're supposed to serve us, but if they just spend our money willy-nilly, then it's like, >> uh, I would enjoy that, too. I would. I mean, there's a lot of ridiculousness going on, and we all know it. Uh, and, um, it's not in anyone's interest really to go against it to uncover it because one person's cost is another person's job. You know what I mean? Like, like I could find all sorts of like crazy expenses and then like there are like a thousand people who were barnacles on that. Now, let me say I'm also, you know, like a conscientious human where it's like, is it your fault that your job relies upon this inefficiency? >> Uh, you know, like I I would argue no. I mean, just like it's not some >> but there's a negative economic multiplier on their job. So, what is the purpose at the end of the day? It's like just give them welfare instead of having them like continue to an inefficient system. >> That that would be my >> at the very least, you know, >> that that would be my argument. It would be look uh in like in a way um and this was one of the ideas um I think Doge was working with. It's like look if I buy you out like we still win. >> You know what I mean? Like I'm I don't want to be um like uh like a total jackass because like if someone got hired in some capacity. I mean they were just like a random schmo who ended up working at this thing and they you know they're doing their thing. Um, and I say this in part, so my parents were immigrants to this country. My mom worked at a state university in New York. Um, and so like I I worked summers there. And so like you get a sense of like, you know, various departments and and employees. Um, my aunt then worked for the state of New Jersey as a as a researcher. And so like I I kind of visualize people in these random offices. Um, and uh, you know, it's like like I if what they're doing doesn't actually create any value and it's all like a giant um, bureaucratic mess and waste and it's like we should find something else for you to do. But like, you know, I don't want to be like cruel where it's like if there are, you know, like office parks full of these people, you know, you don't want to be a dick and be like, "Hey, like everyone get lost yesterday." >> Give them a year of their income and then tell them to figure it out. some kind of by the way everything I'm describing um might not just apply to these government workers I mean at this point going back to the earlier part of our conversation um is like AI is going to do that to like people who work in call centers right now AI is going to do that pretty soon to people who work in warehouses right now so like like my passion in life in many ways is to enable humane effective realistic transitions for millions of people that are going to be displaced. And you can see now the system is kind of tremoring or whipsawing like the ground is shaking beneath our feet. You know, people who never thought they'd have an issue. All of a sudden it's like, "Oh my god." like you know and some of that I get and it's appropriate because there are millions of manufacturing workers who got kicked to the curb in this last generation and our political system treated them like and ignored them and that was totally wrong slash like you know I mean the word that popped into my mind was actually evil. It's like you you decimated communities. People went home and like uh you know often drank themselves to death. Like very very bad things happen in these in these towns. Uh and now we're that's playing out in more and more sectors. Um and AI does not discriminate between the hardworking conscientious truck driver or the you know the drunk one or whatever. Like it's going to get you either way. Um, and so the question is, what is the path for those people? >> And why did you decide to run for president? This episode is in partnership with Airbnb. So Graham and I just got back from a trip to Austin and Puerto Rico. 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Relay also connects directly with Zero and QuickBooks, which keeps everything organized and your books tidy without any extra work. For a lot of business owners, getting this sorted means you finally stop putting out fires and actually have room to grow. So, if you want a system that supports your business, scan the QR code on the screen or click the link down below in the description to learn more about Relay. Thanks so much. And now, let's get back to the episode. And why did you decide to run for president? >> Isn't it obvious? No, I'm kidding. Um, so I I ran for president because I wanted to educate the American public about AI and the fourth industrial revolution and what was going to happen and accelerate the end of poverty. Right now as we're having this conversation, GDP per person is around 83,000 ahead, which I'm and that's going to shoot up because of AI. So at what level do you get to where you look around and be like, you know what, that's actually enough so we can alleviate gross poverty in this society. And if we don't make a move like that, in my opinion, we end up disintegrating and turning on each other and like all sorts of terrible stuff happens. So I thought to myself, if I run for president, I estimate that I have a 15% chance of accelerating the addressing of poverty in this society. Uh, and that seemed like a fine way to spend, you know, 3 years of my life. It's like if I told you you had a 15% chance of um speeding up the end of poverty. >> Yeah. >> And you I might like to think more people would would take that um mission on if like if I said that to each of you. I don't know if my estimation of my probability of of accelerating was correct. >> Yeah. >> Um but that's what I I thought. >> What was the most surprising thing about politics? >> No, I I was surprised at how uh big was. I suppose I mean I'd say like if you want to >> in what way like what exact cuz I hear all the time that politics like dirty like they try to like bind some dirt on you or someone's like hey tell us everything about like your life in case something comes out we know how to handle it. How true is that? >> There's some reality to all of that for sure. Uh now I I led a fairly boring civilian life prior to running for president. Um, and I, um, the closer you get to being a threat, um, the nastier it gets. And so I was the likable upstart presidential candidate for most of the campaign. And the folks above me, you could tell, had very strict instructions. Do not waste any time tangling with Yang. Like, it's all downside, no upside. So what happens is every candidate in that environment has instructions from our teams like who to try and attack and nine times out of 10 that person's above you. Um and so if you remember the race like and we joked with my team that I was like the grim reaper of presidential candidates where as soon as I passed you you dropped out. It's like the joke was it's all fun in games until Andrew Yang catches you in the polls and then like you're out. And did I catch up to Kla Harris and have her drop out? Yeah. Like I mean, yes, that did happen if you rewind the tape in the presidential primary in 2020. Um, but Joe Biden, Bernie Sanders, like all those folks, like anytime we had any reaction, they just like cut it off immediately cuz they were like, I do not like my team has told me like waste no time on Yang. And so because of that um I had in some ways a fairly benign experience um because uh you know candidates didn't want to like and you like um engage um but the press was bizarre where one thing that came out as an example is an MSNBC producer named Ariana Picari um after she left she said I was given a list of candidates never to have on air and Andrew Yang was one of those candidates. So, like there there's stuff like that going around where the media um that was like something that I'm wouldn't have necessarily believed. >> How did you single-handedly prevent Kla Harris from winning the primaries in 2020? >> No, I I did not. It was just that I did better than her and then she dropped out. The two major arbiters of um viability in that environment were donors and the press. Uh, and so if either or both of those groups turned on you, um, then you ended your campaign. >> Do you think though that maybe the press was a thing five, six years ago and now it's all social media and algorithms? >> Yeah, that's a big deal. You know, so by the way, it is asymmetrical where um, if you look at confidence in national media as an example, it's maybe twice as high among Democratic primary voters as it is among Republican primary voters. So, there's the holy trinity of democratic media institutions that let Democratic primary voters know who is good to vote for. Um, and that trinity is the New York Times, MSNBC, and CNN. So now the average person listening to this, maybe you don't care about what those um media organizations are saying, but you know who cares are Democratic primary voters in New Hampshire, South Carolina, um Michigan, Nevada. >> Who owns and controls those outlets? Like who's at the top making the decision? How do you Is it just like these people cozing up to those people? >> Yeah. So, if if you rewind the tape again, um when Joe Biden launched his campaign, um the people that had the his first fundraiser event for him were the owners of Comcast, um which also own MSNBC at the time. And so, uh there was like a fairly hostile, um coverage environment for Joe Biden's primary rivals out of MSNBC. And is that stuff real? And and again, as someone who who like coming in was like, ah, you know, like professionals, they do their jobs. I experienced some things that made me understand why some people just think it's fake news, like think they're full of Um, I got it. I was like, "Oh my god, like some of that stuff is definitely happening." >> What did you experience? >> Well, again, like some producers being like, "Hey, not allowed to have you on." Um, like the the biggest thing was MSNBC um was actively hostile towards me at different times. Um, and then at some point I was like, I I'm boycotting MSNBC until they like acknowledged that they've um covered me. >> What do you mean actively hostile? Like what did that look like? What do they say about you? >> They like there would be a fundraising graphic being like, "Hey, these are the candidates that raise the most. I would just be omitted from that graphic." Like let's say I was supposed to be like fourth in that graphic. It would just skip me. Um, >> so it go from like third and fifth. >> And would you tweet about them? Like >> I'd be like, "Hey guys, like FYI, like I should have been fourth in that graphic." What would they would they respond to you? >> No. Um >> so they truly acted like you just did not exist. >> Yes. And so then I I came out and I came out and was like, "Hey guys, like what the hell?" >> Um and then it got even wor instead of being like, "Oh yeah, like by the way, some of the the things that >> um the New York Times actually shrunk me visually by several inches in a photo. >> I didn't know they did that." >> Um well because I saw the photo and it's like I'm not the same height as Amy Clolobachar or whatever the hell. And then they actually had to print a retraction being like, "Oh yeah, sorry. We we like shrank Yang." >> Was it just editor? Was it just like a random person? >> By the way, so my team got livid about this stuff. I like I would just be like I just blew off most of them. It's like who knows? But like some of the things you were like, well, there was one time CNBC actually put a different Asian guy that was not me like for >> CNBC. >> It was I'm 90% sure it was CNBC like had a picture of a guy named Jeff Yang. It said like Andrew Yang, like presidential candidates, >> you know, and and so by the way, the subtitle of my book that you have up there, um, Hey Yang, where's my thousand bucks? Uh, the alternate title was, "Hey, am I racist or are you Andrew Yang?" Which I which I have been asked. That's um so uh so MSNBC like eventually I was like look guys like I don't know why you guys are being such jackasses but like like if you just acknowledge that you've covered us like uh in a way that you know is not great. By the way they already apologized for a couple things. So I was like just acknowledge that you you've covered us um unfairly and then we can move on. And their response to that was instead just to completely black me out for the entirety of the rest of the campaign. Even when I made the seventh presidential debate, it as in the primary um and people making the debate stage was like, you know, a news item where every press outlet would be like, "Hey, like, you know, Yang just made the debate. MSNBC wouldn't even cover that. Wouldn't even cover the fact that I made >> Why wouldn't you just sue him? I feel like that's the like the fact that they intentionally went in and shortened you. That sounds like you could easily sue them. Oh, you know, I mean, that that was the times like there there was there was no upside, by the way, for a Democratic candidate, which I was at that time. I'm now an independent. I co-founded a new political party, the Forward Party. We're the third biggest party in the country, My Resources. Congratulations to us. >> Um, by the time I was a Democratic primary candidate, and there was tons of downside and no upside to getting into a food fight with the holy trinity of Democratic voting opinion makers. And if you fast forward to 2028, this this upcoming primary, these three opinion makers are diminished from where they were, but they're still powerful, particularly the New York Times and MSNBC among this Democratic primary electorate that I'm going to suggest to you all. By the way, the average age of a Democratic primary voter might be something like 55 and the average age of an MSNBC viewer 57, something along those lines. So, you might think, "Who the hell's watching these things? Why does anyone care?" And people care less than they did, but they still can put their finger on it for a Democratic primary. >> Did anyone go and try to like ruin your reputation or anything else beyond just getting excluded from media? >> You know, there was some very, very negative stuff um that um but it was, you know, I mean, anyone looking at it was like what like Yang made his employees sing karaoke at like a company event. I mean, there was just some stuff where it like it it it like uh Yeah. I mean, cuz cuz Kaki is fun and awesome. Um but >> um >> So that was actually something they said you did. >> Yes. Yeah. >> And what was the bad part about that? >> No, I mean that's what I said, but it it was that uh >> you had they had to listen to his singing. I didn't >> ears were bleeding and >> Yeah, that's really what they should have called out. Uh I will say that uh wasn't for lack of trying in that um I had uh family members, friends, neighbors who uh all received this sort of in interrogation if they would sit for it. Oh yeah. Like that there there was all sorts of um effort um to try to unearth skeletons. Um >> and what do they do? Do they offer money? Do they say like, "Hey, here's a $50,000 reward if you give us some some dirt." >> That there was um you know, there was a lot of cajoling or there were a lot of efforts and elbow grease put in. And one thing I will say to you guys is that um some people just find talking to the press really appealing um because you end up um maybe quoted in the New York Times or whatever, but you also end up with a relationship with a reporter which is currency in certain circles certainly in political circles. I mean there's a layer of professionals who actually interface with these reporters and like feed them stuff and then they they get that you can hire them um for access. So, so what were they? So, explain to me like boots on the ground. What was happening? They were showing up and they were like knocking on doors like, "Hey, you know, Andrew Yang just acting as what? What were they acting as a a journalist?" >> Be like, "Hey, yeah, this is um you know, journalist X from um from the New York Times." Let's use them as an example. Be like, you know, uh have you had any contact with Andrea? You worked with him x years ago. You are his neighbor. you you know are like this stuff would happen um dozens and dozens of times and then if someone were to say to them it's like yeah yeah you know been his neighbor um he like nice guy like fine whatever and then they would like ask him like five negative questions and being like has he ever um stirred has there been arguments from like and after the person was like no none of the above then they were just like okay nothing click >> but then if the person was like well there was this one time but I don't even know if it was you know and then they're like might have You know what I mean? >> Yes. And and so they would call all of the people that I'd worked with over the last 20 years of my life to try and find that's why they got the karaoke story. But like they they would call >> I mean >> did we have a karaoke event at my old company? Yes, we did. Like you know did I give someone a microphone that maybe it was like >> so they felt pressured to do karaoke and perform. >> I don't even know if we can post this anymore. We might get too much >> hand thing. If you handed an employee a microphone and they felt pressured that they couldn't hand it back because their job was on the line and then they're like, "Oh, I have to sing and I don't sing and I feel self-conscious and >> so that means that you should not be able to run for president." >> Correct. Okay. >> Well, no. Well, so but that is the level of detail, you know, and you imagine what it would take to get that particular anecdote. It's like call everyone that has worked and there are, you know, I've worked with a lot of people over my career. So you like call hundreds of people and then if 80 of them are like Yang's Yang is good, Yang's fine. Enjoyed working with him. They're like h nothing here. But then you find like a few people who might have like some ax grind or ambiguous or like blah blah blah blah blah. Um then they'll be like oo. And then there was one disgruntled person that I let go or whatever that they had like stories for days out of. Um you know and so that that stuff is like >> that was like everything. >> But there's news. Here's what I feel. You have it easy in the sense that you growing up didn't have social media and things that you posted to, you know, MySpace back in like 2006 that people I'm sure could unearth and people who are our age who posted everything to Facebook when they're like 13 to 16 years old. I'm sure there's stuff out there that you just would look back and cringe at that a president 40 years from now, they're going to have their entire life. >> I think every every single buddy is going to have that though. That's the thing. >> No, you're right because uh I'm a Gen Xer. >> Um and so social media did not exist when I was a teenager. Uh and so my record is fairly clean, you know, like social media or or otherwise cuz again I'm a pretty boring individual. Um, and it's going to be very very hard for lots of people of a certain generation um, to take on any public facing role because I can find some really rancid things you said when you were 14 years old. And by the way, I don't think you should be judged for that because like you know our brains aren't even complete at 14 and if I trash talk on you know >> and I mean one thing that really distresses me is when people unearth various texts. I mean, who hasn't texted like frankly, you know, like offcolor stuff um to your and so so a social media post I I don't even think most of that should be held against you until you're a fullyfledged adult, your brain is complete, the age of 25 and you have a position of authority because if even if you're like a civilian spouting off, it's like I don't freaking care. >> That's Uncle Joe. Everybody said something 100%. And that's another thing. It's like obviously, you know, not to harp on it, but like the the locker room talk that everyone was freaking out of. Obviously, what he said was not acceptable, but also >> every guy Sorry. And most girls, I know most girls say stuff that's just crazy for the sake of saying something that's probably just as rancor. >> Yeah, 100% worse. I've never said anything. the the take I want to share and one reason why I think you guys are very very um important is that you guys have created your own audience and institution and you're trying to help people it's positive like I find you to be very balanced um the the the way that our politics have gotten divvied up is that you essentially have the folks who believe in institutions like some of these press organizations I was talking about and then you have the folks who don't many of whom have built up their own independent followings and voices is and these two um worlds have been um sort of naturally oppositional because if for example you're independent media, one of your natural things is like oh like legacy media dumb slow like you know kind of full of it maybe um politically compromised like all of the above. Now, you look at this independent universe and I think that there are good actors and not so good actors. And then if you're a good actor within this universe, fantastic. You know, you're like doing people a lot of good and young people are going to actually be seeing your stuff more much more than they're going to see um some clip on cable TV or or whatnot. So, I I think I'm pro like, you know, someone jokingly called me uh you know, it's like I'm somewhere in this zone. Um, and I'm someone who understands, look, these institutions are um, disintegrating and faltering and somewhat compromised and corrupt. Um, and my goal is to try and get them to modernize and be better and do better and help solve some of the problems that are on the ground. Um, which I I do think you're going to need government to do um, at scale. What's been your experience with lobbying? So like on the receiving end have people came to you with a bunch of money saying hey if you could pass this one bill that makes it so gambling is one you know gambling loss is 100% write off >> that >> bring the gambling age down to >> bring the gambling >> um so first uh you know I'm um not presently in control of government so uh if anyone wants to send me money to lobby government feel free to send on over. Um, that said, uh, I've actually had breakfast with a with like, you know, as an example, a US senator who was there to get lobbyed. And so each person at the breakfast, myself accepted, um, had donated between5 and $10,000 to have breakfast with the senator. And each person went around one of the tables like, "Hey, um, you know, like we're trying to get like what the the export tax lower." It's like, "Hey, we're trying to get a subsidy for this." And the senator was bored out of his mind. He was like, "Oh my god, this breakfast sucks." And then I and then I was there lobbying for, you know, like anti-poverty measures and he perked up. He was like, "Oh, I actually don't mind talking about this." Um, but there there's this uh lobbying industrial complex in DC and lobbying pays off huge. I think someone did a study and found that the return on lobbying investment is something like 1,700%. In other words, if I put, you know, 20 million into lobbying, I'm going to get 17x. Um, I'm gonna suggest that everyone here would make that investment five ways from Sunday. >> That's crazy. So, so smart companies are lobbying and our um political system right now is highly subject to it. Highly subject to it. Any other experience though? Because I like this is the type of stuff that everyone, you know, if they think about the conspiracy theories and how there's some rooms that they don't have access to and it's what all the powerful people are doing and there's massive, you know, seven-digit numbers being wired from one person to another through where they just say, "Hey, this was their salary." And then all of a sudden they buy like a $9 million house and like how did this person go from zero to like $9 million house and these bills passed? >> Yeah. I mean that there's there's a lot of um stuff going on. Uh and am I you know like um have I been in rooms where I'm like you know like I have a have a feeling and I I I also will say too um you have these members of Congress and senators who everyone they hang out with is loaded. That's one of the things I will say too. And then they're the center of attention. And so then the people that are around them that are loaded, it's like hey but get you in on this deal. Hey, like I' I've got this tip for you. And then the member's like, "Ooh, like you know, like I have all these fancy friends who want to help elevate my way of life." Um some of them on private planes be like, "Hey, you want to take this trip to like blah blah blah." And so that is pervasive. It's all the time. Uh and uh the American people have picked up on that. But then how does the money end up in the government officials pocket? Because there's a difference donating to a campaign where the money has to be spent on campaigning, but then how come everyone goes into office, they come out a few years later and they're worth $50 million. >> So the the member all the time is getting pitched various deals and it's like look this like a special insider deal and I just want you to reverse position. Let's say I was like a big shot real estate investor. I had some sweet sweet real estate investment where I'm like oo this thing's going to yield you know 500,000%. I'm pretty confident in it. And you knew a member of Congress, would you be like, "Look, just put a bit of money into this deal and you're going to get 5 to 10x." You probably would because you know that member of Congress is going to love you and take your calls forever and thank you. And so that's what's happening is that the the member is getting access to all sorts of sweetheart deals because on the other end, someone wants access and influence. >> But then why is that not made public? Like that seems like if if you pulled all Americans, let's say we have 400 million Americans, I would say maybe less than 10% would disagree with making all that information public. >> Yeah, totally. I mean, so 80 uh you know, 75% of Americans are for something called term limits as an example, >> you know, because we think people should maybe do their job and come home and not just make a you know, perma career out of it. Um 83% of Americans are for trying to get some money out of politics because we can sense that everyone's getting bought and sold. Um the the problem and I have I've actually given a TED talk on this topic. I don't know if it was part of your research. Um that popular will is now getting refracted in a way that we're not actually getting any of those things. Like I can give you like a bunch of things that 75 to 85% of Americans are for and we're not getting >> them. Um, so, uh, but what you're saying is totally correct. I mean, everyone would love transparency and everyone would love to go through both members, uh, investment deals and government expenditures with a fine tooth comb. We'd find all sorts of crazy stuff. >> How common is insider trading? I love these accounts that break down like Poly Market and Kali and they say like, "Hey, this trader has a 100% success rate and just put like $50,000 on this obscure thing to happen." >> Yeah. Again, they're they're getting So, I'm, you know, I'm not going to pretend I have all the access that, you know, a senator has or whatnot, but even I sometimes catch wind of various things that are going to happen before they happen. Like my joke is I don't know if you guys play basketball, but like one of the things people say is like just be around the hoop. Be around the hoop that sometimes the ball comes to like you know >> get get a cheap two. Um so I I would describe myself as being sort of hoop adjacent but but there are um various officials who are just like standing underneath the hoop and they catch wind of everything. I mean if you're on certain committees like you see all these deals that are uh you know happening before they happen before they get announced like all the time and then the very natural thing is to be like hey you know I hear this deal's happening and then and then and it could be your wife it could be you know a family member just elbow I mean that stuff's I'm sure >> you can just let us know you know we will not take advantage of it if you tell us you know you got information about something's going to happen Cool. >> We're not We're not going to take advantage of it. You know, >> I'm sure you would never do such a thing. And you would never then share it with your listeners. Another reason to tune in >> behind the pay wall, of course. So, you got to pay content. That's the definition of premium content. >> We do have a membership. >> We have a membership. We have a membership, which is great. It really helps us out a lot and supports our editor Mikey. >> So, did you ever get one crazy lobbying offer where they were like, "Hey, we'll take you on a private jet, you know, first class vacation." I guess that's we're going to take you over here. private jet first class. They wanted to offer you a bunch of money in order to slip something through the bill. >> I have been asked I I've been offered like all expense paid uh luxury trips uh and things of that nature um for people that wanted to get me on board with um you know their interests or cause like that sort of thing has happened. Um, but no one's ever gone so blatant and just been like, "Here's a check for like XIS for for you to um do our bidding." Um, it hasn't gone to that point. It's possible if id said yes to the luxury trip, that check would have been waiting for me. But, you know, on the flip side too, it's like I am married. I have two kids. Um, like I I say no to a lot of things. Um, uh, particularly international travel because, you know, it's like, um, it needs to drive one of my goals. Um, and I since I ran for president, uh, thank you to everyone who supported me. If you didn't, missed your chance. Maybe, you know, maybe we'll get another one. Um, I've been trying to alleviate poverty, which I see as the most addressable major problem that we have. Um, because again, 83,000 uh, per capita GDP and a big up arrow attached to it. AI's uh you know separating now the the fiction between like hey if you're a good person you're on the good side of the curve and if you're like a a lazy dumb person you're on the bad side of the curve. It's like ah the curve the curve doesn't matter you know it doesn't care doesn't care how moral you are. Um so my efforts in that direction have been um political through humanity forward um which super proud that um we increase the the child tax credit by 80 billion per year um and that's going to go to poor American families with kids. So to the extent I have one crowning achievement uh 80 billion a year I mean that's like you know it's pretty good career >> accomplishment now you know and you like if you want you can dig into um you know I wrote something about it called like fewer poor kids um on my blog a number of months ago um and then I I co-founded this political party the forward party which now has 79 elected officials and I'm convinced that the two-party system is not going to address >> any of the things that we we talked out um because both of them are you know I mean they're doing their thing and um one one of the things I I point out what do you guys think the approval rating for US Congress is as we're having this conversation >> 45%. >> I'm going to say 50 >> 15%ow 17% um like if you look at >> is that historic low? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it might have been that high like you know x years ago when you were in high school or whatever. But now it's 30 years ago. >> Now let's call it um >> 15%. >> What is the reelection rate for incumbent members of Congress? >> It's like probably like 80%. >> Oh yeah, I would say 90. >> 94%. >> Wow. >> So you have the biggest gulf any of us can imagine. And one of my jokes is like, hey, what if 85% of your customers were unhappy, but you changed absolutely nothing uh year of year? I mean, that's how American politics feels to the vast majority of Americans. That's one reason why most of the people who are watching this try to avoid politics really, which I get. >> Um, and so, um, so I've been trying to cure the political system, um, with through the Forward Party. And then the third thing I'm doing because I'm a cool entrepreneur like you guys, maybe not as cool, whatever, is I looked at the average American's cost structure and said, "How can I get more money into your hands without waiting for DC to do it?" Um, so do you guys know Mark Cuban? >> Oh, no, not personally. >> We've tal I've talked to him on Instagram. >> See, there you go. So Mark and I are uh friends and he started a company called Cost Plus Drugs I know over years ago which I think is awesome. And so we've been talking about a lot of broken marketplaces and public policy problems. So Mark being a baller was like hey what if I just buy generic drugs in bulk and then make them available to the American consumer at a 15% markup which is enough for me to like build a business but not like gouge everyone. And so I saw that and was like, "Oh my god, Mark Cuban is saving hundreds, maybe thousands of lives every quarter because some people are able to get drugs that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise." So I looked at Mark and then I said, "Um, is there anything else we can cost plus in American life?" Um, so the average American household's cost structure goes housing, healthcare, education, food, fuel, transportation, fuel, heating, too, transportation, media. It's where you guys come in. >> Yeah. >> And then, uh, wireless data and connectivity. So, I'm now going to ask you a question that I'm deeply interested in, but you know, maybe no one cares. Um, who is your wireless carrier? >> AT&T Boost. The average American is spending $83 a month on their wireless connection. So, everyone listening to this can like, you know, calibrate against that. >> Guess how much the average European is spending. >> 25 bucks. Yeah, I'm going to guess 20 something. >> It's uh 35. So, it's a little bit higher. But that $48 a month difference times 12 months, uh, it's like, let's call it, you know, 6. Yeah, it's it's closer to 600. um times the hundreds of millions of Americans with a wireless plan comes to a hundred billion dollars a year that Americans are spending on their wireless in excess of what Europeans are spending. And if you look at where the money is going, so you have this extra hundred billion in wireless spend. Verizon is paying its shareholders 11 billion a year in dividends. It has a six I think it's like a 6.4% dividend, which if you give people investment advice, you're like 6.4% 4% dividend is freaking dope. You know, >> stock price just keeps going down though. >> Yes. But AT&T 4.7% dividend. Both of these companies, the primary appeal to shareholders now is the cash. These two businesses are now taking money from consumers. So, who are spending on average, let's say like it's probably higher than 83, it's actually more like 90. And then giving it to their shareholders to the tune of 18 billion a year that you can identify just in dividends. Then you have marketing spend a bunch of other stuff. So, I looked at this and said, "Wait a minute. If I can get you to 35 uh a month or close to it, I could save the average American 600 bucks a month directly times all the years you're going to be a wireless subscriber, which is like let's say 40 years minimum. 40 * 600 is 24,000 and then you put any interest rate on it and compound it like what is that? >> It'll make you a millionaire probably or something. Maybe >> make a lot of money. 100 grand. >> With Noble Mobile, we the average Noble Mobile user is paying 42 a month. When you go abroad, we charge you $5 a day and then cap it at 10 days. So, the most you could pay is 50. Plus, we'll discount you on domestic data where we'll rebate you up to $20 a month based on data you don't use. So, um so when I went to Europe, like I didn't get charged for domestic data cuz I didn't use any. So, what we've done is we've cost plused the data that Americans are using in order to try and get more money back into your hands and then reward you if you use less data. The the point though is that we're going to cut the average American's wireless bill in half. Um and then any money that you save on this data rebate, which we call the data dividend, we pay a 5 and a half% interest rate. >> So it becomes this set it and forget it savings plan. That's cool. >> Um that also has the upside of getting you to doomcroll a little bit less. The average Noble mobile user spends 17% less screen time in subsequent months because the less screen time you use, the more money we give you at the end of the month. So, our hook is like get paid to use your phone less. Um, now that only applies to data you use when you're outside of like Wi-Fi in the house and office. So, this is like when you're out to dinner with your friends. Um, but it's, you know, so that's my my big commercial effort to try and get billions of dollars back into American consumers hands. Why can't you just offer free phones, free service, but just sporadically you have to watch an ad to like open your phone or like you're in the middle of texting and just a 5second ad comes up and you say, "Hey, in a day you're going to get x number of ads, but everything is free." There are ad supported models out there. We looked at it. Um I didn't hate it like I was trying to get things as uh value priced as possible. um where we landed was that most people um wanted enough data where it would have been tough to do with just pure ad support um just by the math. Like we probably could have gotten your bill down somewhat. Um but uh it it we don't think we could have zeroed it out if it was purely ad supported. >> I bet you could do crazy ads if you allow them to share their data and what they're browsing online and let's say they're looking for a mortgage. That is worth so much money. >> It Yeah. So there's probably a business to be built around what you're describing. We actually went the other direction where we pledged never to share your data. Uh like we're um so when I ran for president I was like look your data should be yours and like you know we should pay you for it and stuff like that. Um so with Noble we said look we we we don't even have data of yours that we can share. Uh, and so that would diminish the upside for an adupported model because you'd need to know a lot about a consumer in order to yeah monetize effectively. But there's probably a business there. >> In terms of running for president, I'm curious, does it matter and to what degree if you run as a Democrat or a Republican? Like how much strategy goes into choosing a side? >> Uh, it'd be a lot um depending upon what's going on in a particular cycle. Um, so I'm just going to call out um RFK ran for president as a Democrat in 24 and then the Democrat said we're not going to have a primary and then he switched to independent and he wound up um endorsing Trump down the stretch. So I ran in the Democratic primary in 2020. Um and the party with an incumbent for the last couple cycles has essentially shut down their primary entirely. You guys might not remember this. No one does. But in 2020, Donald Trump was the incumbent and there were a couple of Republicans who tried to run against him in the Republican primary and the Republican party was like, "Yeah, we're not going to have a primary." And then the Democrats did the same thing in 24. So the first thing you have to make a determination of is like which party will actually h have a contest. Um, if you were to decide to run for president as a Republican and let's say I mean Trump theoretically will not be back on the ballot in 28, but Um but uh you know like they they they wouldn't actually count votes and like uh hold debates and any of that stuff whereas the Democrats 100% will in uh 2728 like I think on the 28 side Republicans it's going to be JD Vance and I do not think there there's going to be like uh a robust genuine primary. >> Who do you who do you think is going to run against JD Vance? Well, this is this is the point is that um the parties have become less and less interested in having a genuine contest. And so uh if JD Vance becomes let's say even he becomes act like he becomes president before 2028 he would truly be running as the incumbent. Um and so I'm not sure the Republican party will have a genuine primary against him. I think it might >> on the other side it's going to be everybody. It's going to be dozens of candidates. Uh, and I know a bunch of those folks. But every >> If you were to make a prediction though and say, "Hey, I think it's going to be this." Who would you say? >> You mean like you want me to list dozens of names or do you want me to list the front runners? >> I want you to list the front runner who you think has a good chance to go up against JD Vance. >> Well, right now, if you were to look at Poly Market or Cal, any of those things, I think that they'd have Gavin Newsome as the front runner. >> That's what I think. >> And uh, he is taking advantage of the current media environment to um, to stake a claim. I will say I've met the vast majority of these human beings and Gavin commands a room and then is a better political athlete um than the vast majority of other Democrats that are going to be running. He's just really really good in a room. He's tall, he's good-looking, he's got good hair, like I mean the dude I it it's been a fascinating experience because I've been in these rooms now. >> Um the guy does have like that kind of um >> president factor. No, I mean you tell him when he's in the room. There are various candidates that don't have that. >> Is that important to have? Do you think you need to have that IT factor and that presence? >> That it factor makes a big difference. Um particularly now in this media environment. It helps on the ground in these states. It helps with social media. It helps with all that stuff. >> What do you think about Zoron Manni? Cuz he clearly had the IT factor. He got so many people just completely obsessed with the idea of him winning the mayoral election of New York. >> I haven't seen someone capture a mayor election like M Donnie. >> His engagement just alone on Instagram is insane. It's millions of likes. >> Even Even people in LA were like, I wish mom Donnie would come here. I've never seen someone captivate a young audience like him. What do you think of his rent control policy slashfiscally very liberal policy or fiscally progressive policy I should say? >> Um so Zor Zoron and I are friendly. We've known each other for um a while. Uh and he's young himself. It's one reason why uh his stuff clicks online because he's actually native to it. >> Um so I Andrew Cuomo might have been 60 years old and Zoron might have been 35. Um, so when you talk about who's going to be using Instagram and Tik Tok and right now that stuff is a a huge advantage u in terms of your ability to movement build with these tools. Now Zoron's policies um some of them I don't like at all. Some of them I, you know, like am very very uh amendable to like do I do I like the idea of um subsidizing child care for uh for working families in New York? Yeah, I I do. It's like childcare is really expensive and if you can like make it uh you know less of a burden, great. You know, the probably means like the parents will be able to get to work more and like you don't have someone who has to stay at home like that's a win. I thought the government grocery stores was a terrible idea. And so like you know like I I I think he's backed away from that one because enough people have gone to him and been like yo man like like that's dumb. Um, so there, um, and you know, like I I think I wrote something up to this effect trying to differentiate between some of these policies. Like I think free buses is a really bad idea because there are folks who are going to be really poor homeless adjacent who are just going to use them as moving shelters and then like the workingass New Yorkers trying to get to work will be like, "Yo, like this bus is much worse than it was when I was paying a couple bucks for it." So some of these things uh you know we're going to we're going to see like I I will say as someone who spent time with Zoran he's a smart dude he's adaptable and so if something isn't working like he'll be like hey this is this turns out it's not working the way I want >> sometimes what I feel is that you get a person who has that it factor who is just charismatic good with people understands how to read someone knows kind of what to say and has just I think complete confidence you take that person and then you apply certain policies to a voting base that let's just say is like 52%. And let's just say in New York City it's renters. As long as you could just appeal to that 52%, you're going to get voted in. Not because the ideas are better, but just because you you have appeased the the 52%. >> Graham is a very strong proponent of having some sort of like IQ test for people to vote. Like Graham says that like we should disqualify some of like the uneducated >> because sometimes you just throw out ideas and I'm not saying you but I'm just saying like people throw out ideas that just sound great on paper but would never work that don't actually apply but they sound good and people who don't know the difference just say yeah I want that >> like rent control get upset >> freeze the rent make grocery stores free you may as well just say hey everyone gets a Lamborghini a Lamborghini you should never cost more than $15,000. Everyone should have a Lambo. Everyone should have a parking spot. And then people say, "Wow, that sounds awesome." But they don't think, "Okay, well, who's going to pay for that? How's that actually going to work?" But then they get elected cuz they have every other characteristic. More of what you're describing is definitely going to happen now. Um because we're in an age of social media fueled charismatic uh leaders and candidates and hundreds maybe thousands of people saw what Zoran did and were like oh my gosh like I have to try and do that and now most people are not as talented as him and there's not going to be as much oxygen and a lot of other races that are not the New York City Maril which is sort of a sexy like high visibility race but there are going to be a lot of people cripping from his playbook that are going to try and make similar uh appeals. Yeah. So, I'm going to make a prediction. Here's what I think is going to happen. I think we've swung so far into the realm of capitalism that it's alienated 90% of people that weren't able to get on that roller coaster ride and participate. And because of that, we're going to swing so far to the other side that I think we're going to see a similar person, if not mom Donnie, running for president who is going to significantly raise taxes, stifle innovation, limit business, implement wealth taxes. is I I think it's going the so far in the opposite direction because again the 90% of people that weren't able to participate in capitalism are now left behind and the only thing they could do is let's go for these 10% that have gotten ahead and we deserve some of that and let's let's tax out the wazoo and since we're not going to cut social security, we're not going to cut government spending, we're not going to cut the national debt, the only way out of it is to either print more which impacts the 90% or it's to tax the people at the top. That's what I think >> that is what I was trying to avoid when I ran for president in 2020. And I would say to very wealthy friends of mine in Silicon Valley, guys, this is enlightened self-interest because if you don't make the system work for, you know, like the bottom 80% or whatever the number is, like the pendulum is going to swing in a way that is really, really bad for innovation. Um and so a number of years ago around that time frame actually um I was approached about doing a TV show called the future of with Andrew Yang future of transportation future of healthcare and they pul they market tested and said hey Andrew bad news Americans don't like the future you know and and so I was like and they were like hey you tested well but like future people are scared of it. Um, and so my argument to my my friends uh who are entrepreneurs and whatnot is like guys, we have to make America as optimistic about the future and they feel like they're included in it or they're going to turn on the system and all the people that have been successful within it and castigate everyone and like that's what you have to avoid. So, I'm not disagreeing with your characterization of where the winds are going to blow and where the pendulum's going to swing because there's a lot of frustration. >> Yeah. I've spoken with a few really wealthy people too who have said that they want to start taking their money out of the United States and setting up accounts elsewhere or putting it in gold, silver, certain other assets that could easily be moved, Bitcoin because they feel like at some point there's going to be a substantial wealth tax or a penalty for being successful saving money. By the way, when I ran and even I think like last month or whatever, I think wealth taxes uh are a disaster because um wealth is portable. >> Yeah. You saw what happened in California is wild. All the people that left. >> And and so I joke with people was like, "Guys, you cannot think that rich people are rancid Um but that they'll stick around if you decide to like tax it. It's like those two things don't exist in conjunction." But it's but it's but again but that goes back to my point that it's popular that people uh the the the the 90% that didn't participate. It's easy to to have a scapegoat of like this is the problem and it's a person or it's this entity. It's this corporation. They're the reason. And it's so easy to explain. People grab grab their mind around like oh it's oh it's that it's that person. It's Jack. >> Yeah. It it's one reason why I loved what Michael Dell and um Ray Dalio and his wife did with like the Trump accounts where it's like super wealthy people if you take the government out as a middleman will they give billions of dollars to poor kids >> apparently. Yeah. Like they're more interested in that than giving it to the government who they think is going to end up like you know wasting a certain percent of it and like Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's like if I can just give it straight to the kids and I know it's getting to the kids I am down. Yeah. >> And that would that should be like the the vision is you go around to people and be like, "Look, I get it. You don't trust the government to do it right, to administer it. They're going to hire a bunch of people, bloat, all sorts of weirdness. Let's just get it straight to the poor kids." You know, like then then and then you could go to Americans and be like, "See, like look, like there there's like a real effort." >> This is kind of a broad question, but on the topic of progressive tax policy, how much tax is too much? I mean, I'm I'm a numbers guy where it's like you want to uh you don't want to discourage things that you want more of. Um, so one of the things, by the way, I I'm actually pro people working. Um, and so having income taxes on people's jobs, it's like in some ways like not very smart. Like if you can find other ways to get the money you need. Um, when people ask me it's like, "Hey, Yang, how do you want to fund a lot of things you want to fund?" It's like look, do I think there should be like an AI robots compute tax? Like I do. Uh and some people will be like, oh, you can't do that because then we're going to lose to China. It's like I do not. The CEO of anthropic, Dario Amade said, look, we're going to gut the the entry-le white collar workforce. And when asked what we should do, he said you should tax us. Um and I agree with him. It's like like the the AI competition with China in my mind is going to be determined by a number of things, but it's not going to be determined by like the last 10 cents on the dollar. You know what I mean? >> Like if um and uh and again, you want to avoid an environment where everyone's turning on each other and and so I I think Dario's making the right case. Like I'm more interested in taxing that than I am taxing labor cuz I like labor. Like I like people going to work. I like all that stuff. Um, you know, like my joke was um, you know, when I was running for president, it's like I don't care what the town dentist is paying. Like I care what um, you know, what AI is is paying. >> Yeah. Are you going to run again for president? >> I know. I I say to folks like I'm almost too young to um, uh, where you know uh, like love this country dearly. Like we'll probably run again. Sure. I mean it it's >> I think you're too young to do it. I think you need to get like 40 more years on you if you want more years of experience. >> Yeah. >> When you're 80, >> I'll be right there. Uh, you know, I I will say I get asked all the time and it's very encouraging. Um, you know, so thank you to those of you who supported me. If you didn't support me, you know, again, you'll probably have another chance at it. >> And if you do run for president, it would be amazing if then we could have you back on the show. Also, also >> I before and after. >> I truly believe because we just had Rick Caruso on the podcast and he's >> really like Rick. >> Yeah. >> And we were telling him that everyone runs their campaigns so poorly and obviously during this last election getting on podcasts and utilizing social media in an effective way kind of determined the election in a lot of people's eyes. So, we're happy if you do run for president, reach out to us and we will 100% bounce any ideas back and forth with you because we know like the social media landscape very well. >> Well, guys, I would love that. You will be among the first people I call. Thank you for that. That means a lot. >> I would be so into this. We were talking too uh before we even did a podcast with Rick and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, if Rick just does like XYZ and goes on this podcast and does this thing and makes these Tik Tok posts and posts this like I'm like it's so easy to Yeah. I am sorely disappointed that he did not decide to run for >> I thought I thought for sure. I was I was uh thinking he would make a bid for governor. I was so hoping that um I don't know if I saw that post. It was disappointing. I mean, I would love for him to run because it's just like if he could run California like he does the Grove and his malls, he would be running the whole state like Disneyland. You would show up in California and it would be like you thought it was in the movies in the '9s with palm trees everywhere and girls in bikinis running around and everyone is a tan. >> When when I sat with him, it really seemed like he was going to run. So, I'm I'm genuinely wondering what changed. I mean, you guys probably got the same vibe when you sat >> 100%. Yeah, that message came out of the blue. >> Yeah. Well, Rick, not too late. You could always change your mind. Um on on my side, for your listeners, uh we're offering three free months, our best offer for frankly people who um follow me. But it's noblemobile.com/yang for 3 months off your wireless bill, which would save the average American household 250 bucks or so. Um, you guys do awesome work trying to educate people as to how they can uh, you know, strengthen uh, their own futures. Uh, and I'm thrilled that we've had this long overdue conversation. I feel like we should have done this a long time ago. >> I would have loved to. Last question I have for you. In 2019, you made a series of predictions. I want to say pretty much all of those came true. What is your prediction for 2026 and beyond? >> Wow. Um, so I I did write a column 10 predictions for 2026. And so I'm like thinking which one your people want to hear about most right now. >> Probably stocks, housing, AI. >> Yeah. Yeah. That that it was those. I think that uh the AI investment um environment has gotten ahead of itself and is overblown. Um so I I think we're going to see a downdraft uh over there. Um and two things can be true at the same time. you could have a bit of a bubble um in terms of valuations and also have the underlying reality u be real. Um so I'm old enough to remember something called the.com bubble. I don't know where where you guys were at that point. >> I was 11 years old. >> Yeah. >> And so uh this reminds me of that where Pets.com and like all the dotcoms were like we're going to take over the world and they got ahead of themselves but then the internet did change everything. Yeah. >> It just took a little bit longer and some of the initial investors lost their shirts. Um, I feel the same way about AI right now where it's like AI is going to change everything, but um, some of these valuations are out of whack. >> Does that mean to short the market or does that mean that we could be going >> to short AT&T because there's a new new name in town, new boss in town? >> Yeah. Yeah. Should that I mean, don't do it for the dividend. They might have to cut that thing. Um, so that the problem in all of these stories is the timing >> is that you just don't know how long it's going to go on for. So, I, as you can tell, am um pessimistic, but like you know, like you can't figure out when um to retrench. Um but I will say that right now I'm >> um fairly negative on some of the like most famous companies in in the space. >> One thing I will say before we wrap up is that they were calling for a dot bubble. 1997. >> Yeah, exactly. >> 1998. Exactly. 1999. three and a half to four years before it burst. They were saying this is a bubble and it kept going up higher. And what's funny is that you see where they called it a bubble and where it actually popped was so much higher. Like you just see these year-long green candlesticks and it's like bubble at the very bottom and then green candlestick and then green candle and then big green candlestick and then it pops. >> You just can't know. So, if you had sold out when they had first said it's a bubble, even the place that it fell was higher than the first bubble. >> Completely agree. Cuz I was there. >> Yeah. >> Uh and uh yeah, like you you didn't want to get in the way of it. No. >> Um but then when it it did pop, it popped pretty hard. It was um you know I had an anecdote where I attended a launch party for a do and then the closing down party um within like 15 months of each other. I mean th those things did happen um back then and when I started Noble VC said look if you just put AI in the name and the thesis like I'll cut you a check right now. Um, in a way I was like, "Okay, I I sense a theme going on." Um, so you know, you can take that for what it's worth. >> Cool. >> Well, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. That was an amazing conversation. Thank you guys so much for watching. Of course, at the end of the day, we would not be here if not for you. How cool is this? Okay, >> this is unreal. >> So cool. >> Yeah. If you had told me this in 2019, I wouldn't have believed it. >> No. >> Oh, well, thanks guys. Really, I'll come back anytime and keep listening to these guys. They're very, very savvy. >> Come to Vegas. Come see us there. Crap. Yeah, we're going to have a freaking party in Vegas. >> If you guys want to go to the party, you can hang out with us there. That'd be great. Some sort of link in the description. Till next time. >> See you. By the way, if you enjoy this episode, we just posted our next one early for members. So, if you click the join button, you could literally begin watching our next episode right now. Really hope you enjoy it.