“Osama Bin Laden Is Dead” - Robert J. O’Neill TELLS ALL: SEAL Team Six | PBD Podcast | Ep. 646

Osam Bin Lan's dead. >> So that one you know for a fact cuz you looked at his face. >> Yeah, I looked at him and then killed him. I looked at his dead face and then when the picture that was taken that wasn't released, those are my gloves holding his head together. >> Was there an initial shock like, "Oh [ __ ] we actually found him." Was it like boom boom boom boom? >> No, he went this way. I turn here. Here's Bin Laden. Damn it. I see him. I blast him. Shoot him again. Because with a suicide bomber, especially as a sniper, you aim for the mouth, aim for the forehead. You got to cut him down. And that's just what I did with him. And then moved the wife out of the way. And I looked down and his 2-year-old son, Hussein, was there. And I'm a father. My first thought was this poor kid has nothing to do with this. >> Who is the current Osama bin Laden? >> Well, I think the current Osama bin Laden is actually Hamza bin Laden. >> Well, you hear about the fact that he was killed in 2019, right? >> We said we killed him. I don't think he's dead. I think he's running camps in Afghanistan now. It's just sort of one of the things we don't really want to talk about because of the withdrawal and how bad it was in 2021. >> Then why would the president announce that he was taken out in 2019? >> Well, that I don't understand either. >> Do we know where he's at? >> I don't. We think Msad knows where he's at. Cuz Msad seems to know where everything. >> Massage surprises me cuz I think they know everything. They've proven it with the thing with the with the pagers. It's in their interest to know. And then you got to figure is it in their interest to tell us where they are. First you have to admit he's still alive. >> You're saying he's not dead. You still think he's alive? >> As far as I know, he's alive. It just kind of sucks that 25 years later we're right back where we started. [Music] Be advised, your transmission is broken. >> Did you ever think again? [Applause] >> Adam, what's your point? The future looks bright. >> My handshake is better than anything I ever signed right here. You >> are one of my Wrong Missy. >> The wrong Missy. No, >> that's a good one. David Spades in that. It's a It's >> wrong Missy. >> The wrong Missy. Yeah. >> Comedy. >> Yes. Ridiculous comedy. And he Yeah. He met He met a a really annoying Missy and then he met a really hot Missy and then they were texting, but he was the wrong one. He took her on on a retreat to Hawaii for his company, but it was the wrong one. >> Have you seen this, Rob? >> I have. That's pretty funny. She's really good. The actress. >> Oh, she's incredible. >> Can you text it to me? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz last night the Greek kids are like, "Can we watch uh what is the hangover version for the girls?" Uh Jennifer said Bridesmaids. >> Bridesmaid. >> Oh, that's excellent. >> We open up the movie in the first 10 seconds. I'm like, "Babe, what kind of a movie are you recommending?" >> Oh, yeah. The opening. Do you know the opening scene? Starts >> out pretty You got kids sitting here watching like, "Babe, I forgot it starts like this." Anyways, quick shout out to the wife for recommending Bridesmaids. Anyways, >> uh it's great to have you here, man. I appreciate having me. Thank you. >> Thank you for your service. An honor and uh at the highest level >> and uh you know for the folks who know you, they know who you are. For those who don't, >> you are famous for taking out Osama bin Laden with your team, you know, Seal Team Six. >> So, let's start off with a basic question. Who is the current Osama bin Laden days? >> I Well, I think the current Osama bin Laden is actually Hamza bin Laden. They we we said we killed him uh in, you know, obviously before the bin Laden raid. I don't think he's dead. I think he's running camps in Afghanistan now. I think there's 27 camps that he's running in cahoots with pretty much everybody. Um I mean even over there when they say, "Well, it's ISIS." It's pretty much the same dudes. They're just saying they're ISIS now waving the new flag. But uh because of the withdrawal and how bad it was in 2021, um they they've got a lot of camps there. And I think Homs is alive. I think he's running it. I think he's in in cahoots with the Hakani network. And uh it's just sort of one of the things we don't really want to talk about because you know Afghanistan is one of those things that we I think we had it one after operation Anakonda pretty much after Tora where they all ran to Pakistan and we were really good at keeping people there and watching the border. So eventually we you know we'd run sources in and out try to find out where Bin Laden is because they're all in Pakistan. And the whole thing with you're either with us you're with the terrorists was wrong because Afghanistan was fine. My my when I was there in 2005 living in Jalalabad, Afghanistan in a safe house, which would be unheard of now. We had a a small airfield that the Russians built and there was even some hind helicopters still there been shot down with Americanmade stingers. You could drive a motorbike out in town and and uh eat eat the local food. You could buy rugs from local vendors and it was okay. But there was no such thing as IEDs, no suicide bombers until we decided to surge the first surge which was under George Bush. And we were even saying to them, uh, why would you surge now? And that's just the the broad brush stroke of how to win anything. And we were even as operators on the ground explaining to them, this is going to be bad because right now we can go out in town and we get along with the locals and with our safe house. We're hiring local plumbers, electricians, local security. Um, the the there's safety and security here. But if you move us out of here uh and build a big base, bring in thousands of troops. The only ones going outside are scared 20-year-olds driving MR wraps running over people. Uh, you only let in five vendors instead of the the rest of them. They're going to get rich by raising their prices by 800%. They're not. What do you think's going to happen? And they didn't buy it. And their answer was, well, no, it's there's no there's no suicide bombers here. There's no IEDs. And what happened happened? So, I don't think a lot of senior leaders, they're more political than want to know what's actually going on. So, uh, I think right now because of what we did and how we're we're we're probably still funding the Taliban. Uh, and we're funding their camp. So, I think it's Hamza. Short answer is Hamza bin Laden. >> Hamza Bin Laden. So, and do we know where he's at? >> Uh, I don't. Um, and I think it's been tough because we don't have very good human intelligence there. We have signal sort of everywhere, but it's hard to get there. >> Do you think MSAD knows where he's at? Because MSAD seems to know where >> Msad surprises me because I think they know everything. Uh, you know, they've proven it with putting IEDs in places in Iran where they're meeting the thing with the with the pagers. >> So, yes, I think they do. Um, it's in their interest to know and then you got to figure what their interest is. Is is it in their interest to tell us where they are? And then we have our agencies that probably I I don't know. Uh, we might and if we do, I'm first you have to admit he's still alive and that we did we put out counter intelligence, bad intelligence, or is he dead? As far as I know, he's alive. And there there are people that I still talk to that are sources, but you know, we're all getting old, so no boots on the ground right now. >> But you hear about the fact that he was killed in 2019, right? So on September 14, 2019, President Trump announced that he was killed in US counterterrorism operation on Afghanistan Pakistan border. You're saying he's not dead. You still think he's alive, >> right? And so I I might have misspoken. One of the brothers was killed before the raid. We killed one of the brothers on the raid and then yeah, 2019 they said Hamza was dead. I was out then, but my sources have said he's still alive. But it's one of the things they don't want to admit. And it's different than right and wrong. It's political at this point because there would be people that say, "Well, Trump said it, so it's got to be wrong." Or people that say, "Trump said it, so it's got to be right." Uh I I personally, it makes sense that he's alive. It makes sense to have camps and it it just kind of sucks that 25 years later, we're right back where we started. >> What is that? Right. September 2024, National Mobilization Front, a resistant group fighting against the Afghan Taliban, claimed that Bin Laden was still alive. Bin Laden or Hamza? >> Hamza. >> Hamza. Bin Laden still alive. >> Osama bin Bad's dead. >> Okay. So, that one you know for a fact cuz you looked at his face. >> Yeah, I looked at him and then killed him. I looked at his dead face and then when the picture that was taken that wasn't released, those are my gloves holding his head together. So, he's he's gone. But there's uh Sarah Adams, I think is her name, is a follow that she knows a lot about it. She's at a former agency. >> She's phenomenal. She she >> I don't know if you've had her on here. I haven't had her on if you want. She's the one that like I can pretend I know what I'm talking about because I've listened to her, but uh she's the one that would know. And I think she thinks Hamza is alive still. >> So, she also thinks Hamza is alive and she's she has she said that publicly or Okay. She I mean she screams it from the rooftops publicly. >> So if we know where he's alive then then then why would the president announced that he was taken out in 2019? >> Well that I don't understand either. Um it's almost like with the uh body double thing or we Seymour Hurst said that we were mutilating Ban's body and we threw him over the Hindu cush and that he was never you know I I don't and President Trump retweeted that and he said he just retweeted it to say it's out there yet sitting in that office a retweet's a lot more uh has a lot more leverage than not. So I for that too I don't know why but I think he's alive. >> Yeah. So you're talking about how you're talking about you conf you're isolate each one of them. Are you talking about a tweet many years ago when president said that Osama bin Laden was never killed. So that's what you're talking about. >> No, there was something about a Seymour Hurst article that said he he was dead but he was mutilated. I'd have to look up the >> He retweeted the president. >> He retweeted he retweeted something. Yeah. And I'd have to look. >> Can you pull that up, Rob? >> I'm looking right now. He retweeted something that at the time they said, you know, President Trump retweeted at a QAnon claim >> that uh bin Laden I think it's 200 what what year would this be? >> That would have been >> 12. No, not 12. What year would it be? I want to say October of 12. Maybe I'm wrong. So, if you can kind of pull up when >> No, I think he was president when he he tweeted something out cuz I was at a pool in Phoenix and I asked because they Oh, and it was something along the lines of this with the the Seal Team Six operators being killed on Extortion 17 which happened but it wasn't the Bin Laden team if that makes any sense. >> Yeah. So, so >> and I'm kind of mixing this up a little bit too. I'm just I'm thinking back to it. >> So, so let's let's let's isolate it. Let's let's kind of focus on each one of one end. You're saying Hamza the son is still alive. Yes. And President Trump said he died in, you know, in 2019. He says, "No, he's still alive." You're he's he died. You're saying he's still alive. Okay. >> Osama bin Laden, that that whole conversation with that one was a different story because, you know, himself, President Trump, and some others are like, why would he be dead? I had DJ Shipley and Co-factor, which Co-factor, I think he said he was there with you on the mission or >> one of the 90 guys that was working on the mission. Yes, he would have been one of the guy the guys the that don't get credit for being heroes that came in because Seal Team 6 and the army rescued Seal Team S and and people people are always caught up around who shot lot. It's like well think about the pilots and the air crew that came in and we went in on stealth helicopters lost one. Imagine the guys coming in on a shinook that's not stealth and so Cole would have been one of those guys. >> Yeah, he was Seal Team 10 if I'm not mistaken. >> Oh, at the Well, I think he was six too. >> Was he six? >> I I'd have to I'd have to call him. You you you you could be right >> because DJ was at my squad and he was actually in my team. I was his team. Yes. Okay. So, Shipley was I was his team leader. He was not on the mission. Should have been. He was one of the best ever. Um and then Cole also I if >> there was a lot of moving parts. We initially started with 23 guys and the the two air crews and just because the well, President Obama wanted to beef it up. He gave us what's called the gorilla package. So we had more seals on more birds and then we had more rangers as well. Uh further back to the border and then into a place called FOB Solerno. So Cole po probably was there. I can't I wasn't with him. I don't know. >> Okay. So So okay. So Cole could have been Seal Team 6. I think he was Seal Team 10, but uh you know so he's CEO. We're sitting there talking and I asked him a question. This my challenge with it and you're the main guy that can push back on this. So please do sir. So for me, I sit there and here's how I think about it. We hear about the kidney failure Osama was having back in O2, right? When they're saying these types of kidney failures, you're lucky if you live 6 to 12 months. Best case scenario, 5 years. The guy lives nine more years. Okay. So there's one camp that says the guy was already dead. Then you have the second camp that says well you know where he was stationed at in Pakistan was8 miles away from the west point of Pakistan which they call a cackle or what a k a k phenomenal name it's like a military training camp base that they have there and so that's point8 miles so Pakistan always knew where he was and that was their way of keeping him control and that was intentional if anybody wanted to take him out they had him under control and that's the Pakistan Okay. Third one is when you sit there and think about it and say, "All right, we took him out and then we decide to dump him in the middle of the ocean." If we decide to dump him in the middle of the ocean, the history of America that's never happened. The only place that's ever happened to is in the movie uh Optimus where Megatron is dropped dropped in the middle of the ocean and I think that movie was like right around the time where that movie where the whole scene happens. Then while you're talking about all this stuff, which is really the craziest thing is after Osama bin Laden uh dies, you know, when that event takes place, within 18 months, uh uh Zero Dark 30 comes out. Yeah. 18 and a half months, Zero Dark 30 comes out. So I go in there and I look into Zero Dark 30. Of all the movies that they've done, the producers, it's Anna Porna production company and out of all the movies they've done, they've done Hurt Locker, >> they've done uh Fox Catcher, The Wrestler Story, they've done her, they've done so many big movies that you can go American Hustle, there's Joy, they've done so many great movies, you know, they've also done The Sausage Party, which I don't know if you know what that is. If you do, you have a certain sense of humor. >> I think that's the only one of those I've seen. Vice is also one. You may have seen Vice as well with Dick Cheney. >> Do you know out of all the movies they've ever done, >> out of all the movies they've ever done? I I researched to see what was the fastest movie they ever made. >> The fastest movie they ever made in 18 months was Zero Dark 30. So Osama bin Laden dies >> May of uh uh uh 01 if I'm not mistaken. May May of 2011. Uh >> May of 2011. >> May uh 2nd 2011 if I'm not mistaken. Then a movie comes out December of next year, 2012. So you're talking 19 monthsish, year and a half. They've never made a movie faster than that. So I sit there and I say, "What? What did they know? What?" And then there's just too many things for a regular guy like me to question and say, "Did we really kill this guy? If we did, why would we dump his body in the middle of the ocean?" I don't know. So what do you say to that? >> I disagreed with that off the bat because they did tell us even before we went on the mission that was the plan. And again going back to leaders not really understanding how stuff works. They said they don't want a shrine for Osama bin Laden for people to go worship. Not understanding that hardcore Sunni Muslims are not going to go worship a shrine because that's a you worship Allah. That's it. That way you don't draw pictures of >> and I've read that as well. So I agree with you. >> So I disagree. Um uh we I didn't dump him in I didn't see him get dumped in. I get asked now people will say how do we know his body's not at the agency in a vat of Betadine? I don't know that. When we got we brought his body to Jalalabet, Afghanistan. We showed Admiral McCraven who was in charge of joint special operations command and the CIA team especially the woman that zero dark 30 was about. Showed them the body there. We had a quick debrief around the body discussing exactly what happened. Then we brought his body up to Bramfield where the threeletter agencies did their stuff and then we handed him over to the army and they were Green Berets maybe Delta. They took his body. That's the last I saw him. I've been told like everyone else they dumped his body in the ocean. wasn't there. So, I can't confirm it, but that's that's what happened there. Um, with uh what? Let's see. Oh, with as far as the uh the kidney uh dialysis stuff, I think >> O2 O2 was when they CIA started reporting he's got kidney issues, he's got maybe 5 to 10 months left. >> That's counter intelligence, right? >> Because sources get paid and they're smart enough to know to tell people enough just to get paid. And I don't want to give too much up because this is my source of income. I come in, I tell them stuff, I get paid, tell them more stuff. If someone comes in and says, "Yeah, this has definitely bin Laden. I saw I saw the dialysis." The targeter would know, "No, you didn't because he didn't have one." So he was his kidneys were fine. >> Okay. So the kidneys are fine. And this is report that came from who? What's this one? Kidney comes Gardner. The president of Pakistan, General Pereves Musharov said yesterday he thinks Osam Ban had probably died from an untreated kidney disease. I think now frankly he is dead for the reason he is a patient kidney patient. General continued to tell CNN contradicting US intelligence officials that say they do not know if Bin Laden has suffered from kidney problems. He said he knew the al-Qaeda leader had taken two diialysis machines into Afghanistan. One was specifically for his own personal use. I don't know if he has been getting all the treatment in Afghanistan. So you're saying this isn't true. >> Yeah. I'm saying it's counter intelligence. And then again, as we've seen, especially recently, a lot of media outlets are are just uh an extension of intel agencies. So, and again, I I like to just speak from what I've seen. Um, like I wasn't on the moon, so I can't say they landed there. I was in Bin Lad's bedroom. There was no dialysis and he seemed fine. He was walking when I met him and uh there, you know, there was nothing in there to indicate that at all. Then you start getting into Pakistan, they have every reason to because that's the center of the universe in that part of the universe. They have every reason to not necessarily piss off al-Qaeda too much. So, being close to the academy, yeah, I mean, the ISI knew he was there. Parts of it did parts of the intell, not all of the military, I doubt, but even when we were presented with we were there was a couple of options to get bin Laden and we had the the team they picked in a room when they were naming the options and one of them was uh a multilateral mission with the Pakistanis and we're like, "Yeah, try that and he'll be gone before we even get in the helicopters." Uh so but so Pakistan knows he's there and and again too when people ask about the the response, we're that close to their West Point. You got to figure up in New York if we were invaded near West Point, it wouldn't be the cadet showing up. It would be the local police. Uh so the cadetses aren't showing up. It doesn't I mean, yeah, they know he's there, but there's not going to be an assault force. And my bigger I had a bigger concern going into Abadabad Pakistan was wasn't dealing with the Pakistan army. I didn't want to kill a Pakistani policeman because we're in his country, not at war. He doesn't know why we're there. He's doing his job and I want to I want to be very sensitive. I'm not going to go blast some policemen in in Pakistan. Um so uh uh so many different moving parts. A lot of them I have theories on. Some of them I've seen which is what I believe but the rest is sort of just hearsay. >> Got it. So the Pakistan now was Pakistan working with you guys as a team did they want him to be taken out or no? >> I don't know. Um I know one of their colonels was living across like the like couple hundred meters away and I I mean they could have told us I don't even know how the intel worked but he was definitely there and to the point I think the Pakistani intel service was working with him so tight. That's why even like Khaled Bin Laden was confused on the stairs. They heard something in the front yard. They're not quite sure who's here. Is it the Pakistan military coming in to move us? Maybe, maybe not. Are our tactics that good that we're so quiet? That's also true because we were that good. But I mean, Khaled Bin Laden got killed on the stairs because the guy in front of me confused him. Just whispered to him, you know? So, they're not necessar like the in the guest house guys got shot at. Then there were other shots. But like even going up the stairs, Khaled was armed but he wasn't shooting down the stairs like a lot of guys have places where I've been in urban combat fighting up in a house is very dangerous and he was kind of waiting not shooting and there was confusion. So what they knew what the Pakistanis knew and then I mean just the way that Pakistan was pissed off and and embarrassed kind of tells you they knew what was happening and if if I mean who knows maybe the Taliban would have given us bin Laden even though they said they wouldn't and then Pakistan might have but there's a lot of stuff going on. I mean, everything from uh saving face to the military-industrial complex. You know, who's who whose pockets aren't getting lined if we kill them in Tora Bora in 2002 as opposed to fighting a 20-year war. You know, it's there's a lot there that uh you know, I'm at a point now since after co and the lockdown, it's like, you know, get get multiple sources before I believe anything. >> Okay. So, so you're there, you're walking in, you've said this before. You've said he looked like a coward when he took him out. Yeah. Right. I think you said he he was a coward. He acted like a coward. It reminds me of the speech President Trump gave after who was it? Albaghdadi. Yes. >> He died like a dog. >> Died like a dog. >> Like a nice little dog. But he was crying. He was doing this. He died like a coward, you know, and he kept going and going and going, right? With this whole >> the video that many of us have seen hundreds of times. It's almost comical when he when they do it, right? >> Yeah. When they do it side by side. >> Yeah. When they do and they say, "This is how Obama announced the person died and this is how Trump Trump in 48 minutes. Obama went like 8 minutes or whatever it was and he moves on. Right. For you >> when you're there. I've heard the stories many different times. I've watched, you know, the podcast that you've done. How much training did you guys do going up into this where the preparation of going in was role played so many times or because you don't know if the guy's moving that many times, it's a lot of audibles you have to call last minute. >> It's it's more audibles reading off of each other. Like when I get asked, "How did you guys clear a compound that big?" Because we mastered the basics. If you get really good at the easy stuff, you're going to be fine. And there's no need to talk yourself into an ass kicking. So when I get asked that question, how'd you do it? I'm like, "Well, the guy in front of me went left, I went right." And we just did that over and over. So we were just because of the combat when we first started going to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. We just changed our tactics because basically before 911 there was fighting, you know, Grenada and and Panama and then a little bit in Desert Storm, but we were using Vietnam tactics. Once we started getting shot at by real people in mountains and deserts, you got to change everything up. But when we were told this team, who'd been probably 400 combat missions each, but we'd all been working together at least for 10 years each. When they said when the commanding officer of Seal Team Six had us in a room and finally said, "Uh, the reason you guys are here, this is as is because this is as close as we've ever been to Osama bin Laden." The common answer was, "Cool. Are we can we go right now?" We cuz we didn't need to train for it. Like, we're just we're ready to go. We know what we're doing. It's uh obviously the pilots are going to need to know the routes or they're going to design the routes. They need to know where we're going, what the mountains are. But yeah, we were completely ready for it. And it wasn't we we trained on the outside. They they had constructed a compound that looked like the outside so we could get used to seeing what the exterior looked like. But the second anyone tried to say, "Well, here's what the inside, don't tell me what you think it looks like, cuz it won't. Don't tell me how many men, women, and children are there. Tell me how many people you've seen, and I will figure it out when I get there." It's like, if you keep telling me when we go in the front of his house, there's immediately going to be a lefthand turn. That's probably not the case. It'll be a righthand turn. I don't want to don't I don't want to get into a situation >> right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. So we we wanted to know that and that worked out well because we were supposed to drop part of my team off outside on the north end and then we were going to the rooftop but because of the complications with the weather with the updraft our pilot just put us off with the snipers again. And we knew from training off to our left is a double door. We'll just go through there and start the war from here. Uh but don't I I if I don't want uh um you to tell don't assume anything. My tactics are good. My team is great and we'll figure it out when we get there. Uh but we you know we trained a lot and that that was more of to show the powers that be this is what we offer because there were uh different kinds of bombing campaigns. There was thing called a hammer throw where we've seen a pacer. We can throw one bomb at him and hit him but you know that's never going to work because bombs and grenades aren't like Hollywood where one blows up and the whole house comes down and 50 people fly into the ditch. It's like you're going to miss he's going to run. Uh so just send and even President Obama was so cool. He said, "Uh, I was never 100% convinced Bin Laden was there, but after seeing you, I knew you could show up, find out, and come back." >> He told you that. >> He didn't tell me personally. He told us, uh, in, um, in a in a room at Fort Campbell, Kentucky after the raid. >> And that was just cool. Um, that that he had that faith. Just go find out and come back safely. >> How many people were in that Fort Campbell meeting? >> Uh, well, they had the 23 shooters. Um, the the air crews, most of the cabinet, uh, Hillary Clinton did not show up. >> This is post. >> Yeah, this is after the like a week later. A week later, you're all in Fort Campbell, Kentucky. >> Yeah. Turn, it was kind of awkward because a lot of these dudes to this day will never talk. You'll never hear from them. They want to live on a farm and whatever. And then it's, you know, even that night, we're there and it says, "Steal team six kills Osan bin Laden." A lot of guys are uncomfortable. And then all of a sudden, we're doing these dog and pony shows going everywhere to meet uh uh politicians and admirals and generals and uh we had an award ceremony in in Florida in front of a bunch of people and guys are kind of like this isn't good. Uh yeah. So it was uh and then we met President Obama which at Fort Campbell after a unit from the army just got back probably the 101st up in Campbell and and he you know he met with them talked to them and secretively he could come to a room where we were and and that's when he told us that which is kind of I mean he he made some good calls that were uh uh they weren't political at all and he it wasn't left or right because like Secretary Gates is Republican obviously more Democrats than Republicans but they made a decision based on what what is the right thing to do and and it was before an election and even though zero our 30 was fast. It was after the election. Uh and if we screwed that up like President Carter did, Desert One, >> you're not getting elected. >> And so it wasn't this was not a political choice. >> Yeah. I mean, listen, the movie is a little too fast to to think about how quickly you produce something. Movies take three years, three to five years to make. >> In 18, 19 months, you have it ready to go and you got clearance from CI from everybody use some of those uh uh you know, stories. Who knows what what >> I never I never thought of that either that I mean do they have stuff in place they're written already have they recorded >> well apparently they'll say it was rewritten and they had to change the ending and they had they were already working on it and they bumped it up as their number one priority of a movie to make. Who knows? It's just it's a lot of things that makes you question. But walk me through, you know, when you when you go in the room and you finally see him. Okay. Was there an initial shock like oh [ __ ] we actually found him? Was it like boom boom boom boom? >> No, it was uh super fast. started below the the last set of stairs. The woman that found Bin Laden was 100% right on every single person in there, even though no one at the agency believed her, which is crazy. But we're at the last set. The guy in front of me, >> who was the woman with CIA? >> Uh yeah, the one the movie was based on. They called her Maya in the movie. >> In real life, her name is not Maya. >> I Yeah, I promise I would never describe her or say what her name is, but she was that cool. Like that good. Uh um >> why was she that good? >> I don't know. uh when the best part of the movie Zero Dark 30 Jessica Chastain nailed it when she sat down to lunch with the director Leon Petta played by James Gandalfini and he said what else do you do for us and she said nothing I do this that that was just cool that that's kind of describes what she was like she was there >> did you ever meet her >> oh yeah she was she was uh the first person that we met when they told us it was been live >> what was her personality like >> uh serious um I didn't want you guys anyway I wanted to bomb this I know he's there 100% we we'd get done training on that site for 12 hours. Then we'd go back to our rooms and we'd all stand around a two-scale model that someone had built of Bin Laden's house. We would talk about the perfect plan. We'd discuss contingencies and every night she would say something similar to, "Okay, guys. Uh, right now Assam Bin Laden is on the third floor of this house. I don't understand why we're not going. Have a good night. See you tomorrow." >> No [ __ ] >> Yep. She knew it. And it was the whole uh >> Who told her what gave her that kind of confidence? Her team or was it was she a oneman show or was she like a >> No, it was a team. There was there was it was actually a team mostly of women and uh they were working everything from Pakistan, from Afghanistan, from from the states. I I ran a um I was running the outstand. So we had all these stations on the border to run sources in early of 2011, my 12th deployment at an agency base. I think the targeting team for Bin Laden was there and I didn't even know they were there to we were at a point there like I would do battlefield interrogations on al-Qaeda guys on target and in between like uh who were the men in the house, what are their names, what are they doing blah blah I would just sneak in, where's Osama bin Laden? And we would both laugh at each other. Both of them, me and a terrorist, because like no one knows. He's gone. And the agency women are right there and they know it. They're just not saying anything. Like it was almost to the point where the problem with a lot of these like Seal Team 6 and and and the agency is that they make too many movies about us making us look cool. We're not that cool. Well, this team was that cool. The the agency team, they were that cool. So when we met her, she just she every night she would say stuff like that. She wanted to kill them. And like cuz if we hit them with the Air Force's plan like 22 Jams, joint direct action munitions, 2,000lb bombs, no one's ever going to find out. She was like, "We don't need the DNA. I'm telling you, who's there? We can kill him." And um so she like she got to the point where the very first day after she was introduced, she had a PowerPoint brief explaining to us how she and the team found him. And it got to the point we're like, "Look, we just believe you. I don't need to hear this anymore. I'm He's there." And so we were we were I was 100% sure. So at the end going up the last set of stairs with one guy in front of me. It wasn't a bravery thing on my part. It's cuz the point the guy in front of me had taken a shot before I got there and I got there as a two man. >> How many seconds before you heard a shot you got up there? >> Um oh cuz I when we went up the >> boom boom boom you go up. >> Well no he he he took the shots before >> I know what I'm saying is he takes the shot. You're automatically why is he shooting? Let me go to where he's at. >> Uh the guy's behind him. I was about eight back, seven back. They started clearing the second floor. He's His job as the number one man is pointing up. So, he shot before I got to him. >> Why did he shoot? What did he shoot? >> He saw some faces behind a curtain at the top of the stairs. He saw something. >> And you were instructed if you see it, take the shot. >> Well, I mean, if you see Bin Laden, we're going to shoot. Uh, unless he came out of the shower, hands up like naked. We're going to kill him. He's a suicide bomb. He's got to be. So, he I got to him and my job is to I want more because he Bin Laden's up there and I want two more dude. I want four dudes. I'll take two. And I'm ready to squeeze and he started saying to me, didn't know it was me, knows it was one of his guys, like we got to get up there, not talking so much, but these movements because th those are the suicide bombers. We got we can beat him. We got to go now. And I for me it wasn't bravery. It was like, I want to get this over with. I'm [ __ ] tired of thinking about this. And I squeeze him and we went through the stairs. And and he he ended up tackling two people that he thought were suicide bombers, which to me is amazing. The guy >> the guy in front of me. So he uh he jumped on I mean this is Medal of Honor [ __ ] right here. He he because I know we're going to blow up in the room. He jumps on people he assumes are putting on vest and because again left right he went this way. I turn here. Here's Bin Laden standing there >> and he's holding >> he's holding his wife up. She was wounded >> and uh I saw him and I was like uh he's taller than I thought. He's skinnier than his beard's white. That's his nose. He's not surrendering. And and all you need to do for uh to set off a suicide vest that you're wearing is have the leads right here and just touch them. So you can do the whole yeah I surrender. Boom. And it's fast. I've seen suicide bombers and they're very fast, very permanent and scary and loud and I'm not dealing with that. Like when I went up there I was like let's get it over with. I see him. I blast them. Shoot him again because again not like the movies shooting someone in the chest. They have a will to live and they'll they might survive. With a suicide bomber, especially as a sniper, you aim for the mouth, aim for the forehead. You got to cut them down. And that's just what I did with him. and then move the the wife out of the way. And Bin Lad's at the at the uh at the bottom of the bed, too. And and even with, you know, I'm kind of going off uh off uh the story here. I love to talk about the humanity of people everywhere. Uh most people in a combat zone are not combatants. Um at this moment after I shot Bin Laden and moved his wife, I looked down and his two-year-old son Hussein was there. and I'm a father and I'm I remember my first thought in Bin Laden's house was this poor kid has nothing to do with this, you know? It's like almost like what is going on here? Then I move them and I I turn around. I'm going to go back and get the pictures, but I sort of hesitate just for a second because we're going to die, but [ __ ] And one of my guys, the other cos I was the only guy in his room for a a couple of seconds. Other guys were coming in and one of my guys stopped me and he goes, "Hey, you good?" And I said, "Uh, what do we do now?" And he said, "Now we find the computers. We do this every night, man. hundreds of times. I said, "You're right. Holy shit." And he goes, "Yeah, you just killed Osama bin Laden. Your life just changed. Get to work." >> Is he the commander? >> Uh, no. >> Were you reporting to him or >> uh No, no, no. He was another dude coming in the room there. So, I'm assuming most guys got into the room eventually. So, um, this was one of the guys from my team. Uh, obviously I'm not going to say who, but >> but he's a SEAL team six. >> Yeah. Yeah. These were all at this point. These are all Seal Team Six. >> Everybody that went in, you guys are all Seal Team Six. >> Yeah. >> Okay. That's the 8990 or or how many how many people total was that >> in on the mission? 23. 23. >> 23. And then there's another >> Well, we had one guy that wasn't and I still don't know who he was, but he spoke fluent Erdo without an accent, which I think is just badass. Here's some dude that he can carry a gun. He's really good. He's a shooter. He speaks Erdo. He's an American. It's like I want to know who this dude is cuz that's like here's a guy that it shouldn't be talking about the guys that killed in line. That was easy. Go shoot a guy. Who's this dude? That's awesome. >> So, you kill him. The wife is not dead yet. The wife is not She didn't die. The son is how old then? >> He was two. Uh I think Khaled on the stairs was 19 or 20. >> Khaled on the stairs were 19 or 20. >> The son is two. That son today is 16 years old. >> Do you ever have nightmares of thinking about that kid coming after you? >> I don't have nightmares about him. I uh I honest and again this is me being an optimist. I hope he has learned like this is not the way to go. Uh I mean and again like I'm not looking for it and you know if they come looking for me the next guy I kill will be in my own house. I don't want it to come to that. Uh but I know how to deal with them and it's just it is what it is. Uh I I mean cuz I'd heard again rumors. I'd heard that bin Laden was even talking to his his kids about don't get into this line of work. I've heard Nur Bin Laden I think who was his cousin who said something similar to uh well if you line up 10 members of any family there's going to be an [ __ ] He was ours. So I I don't know. I mean, I I don't want a bin Laden showing up in New York, but it is what it is. >> What is What is the kid's name? The the two-year-old at the time. >> I think it's Hussein. >> Hussein Bin Laden, >> I believe. So, >> so Hussein Bin Laden, can you pull him up? Hussein Bin Laden, he he is u born in 2008, which makes sense. Wife. So, Hussein Bad, can you go on his account on his profile? If we go to him, what did the FBI say about him? FBI said nothing. It's just Osama bin Laden family background and sim was feminist and known as elder brothers or something. No, that's a different one. That's that's a different one that they were talking about the one that was there. Okay. And and let me ask at the time when this happened and you took out Bin Laden. Is he the first 10 people you've killed in your No. Or you've been there many times. >> Oh. Yeah. A lot. He wasn't the last guy I killed with that gun. >> He wasn't the last. >> No. I I did another deployment because we we did the Bin Laden raid on May 1st, May 2nd, 2011. And we, you know, we went through an emotional roller coaster with, hey, we did it. Then our names, not our names, but the shielding six is out. Then, uh, but it's a high because we chopped the head off the snake. And then in August, uh, extortion 17 was shot down. We lost uh, 30 guys, 30 Americans. Um, >> what was that all about? That's a very weird story, >> right? And that's where the that's where the conspiracies come in. People because people don't it was months apart and they say, well, Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had Seal Team Six killed to shut them up, which is ridiculous. But but but if you don't mind kind of going through this because it was it was it was uh the the single biggest event of the most >> you know >> people getting killed not tier one. >> Oh yeah. >> You know soldiers getting killed on an operation and it was uh the the shots fired came down from who? >> The bad guys. >> The resulting killed 38 people. Yeah. and a military working dog on board including 17 new US Navy Seal, >> two US Air Force Par rescue. >> He had a couple combat uh patrol. I mean, this was >> huge. >> This was huge. >> Well, I I talked to some of the guys involved. Actually, we backfilled them at Ford operating operating base Shank where they took off from and uh there was a conversation between I want to say Jonas Kelsaw who was a commanding officer and Lou Langas who was the master chief. Uh, and because they're going in on a quick reaction force, which is dangerous, and they knew where they were going in the Tangi Valley, and they they normally have two helicopters, but they said something along the lines of the second one's definitely going to get shot down. The first one might not. So, they put everybody on one helicopter, and it had nothing to do with the Bin Laden race. Uh, but people want to just because it was Seal Team 6, everyone from the Ban still alive. And then these I But we lost the best guys we had on Extortion 17. Like, we look at those dudes. That's a I mean, not quite a thousand years, but hundreds of years of combat experience. you can't get back. And but so then anyway, uh I did go back to back with them with a different squadron and we I finished up in in Afghanistan uh 2012. >> Okay. So when when it was Osama bin Laden, I think the government put a $25 million bounty on him. We put another $25 million was on uh Saddam Hussein, if I'm not mistaken. >> Trump just announced, President Trump just announced $50 million on Maduro. Why would Maduro be the same as Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden combined? Is it just inflation or is he that much more dangerous than those two? >> Well, I think that that President Trump's looking at the the drugs coming in, the fentanyl coming in. We have new opioids coming in now that's uh doesn't even respond to any treatment. Uh people dying from that stuff, too. So, I'm assuming coming through Maduro. Uh that's got to be something to do with it. The cartels. Um, I think that they're considering a lot of the narotic terrorism and they're I mean, we'll see if it works. We've never really, it's hard to say what we've never done, but putting political and military pressure on them. There's a lot of, you know, stirring the pot with a lot of this stuff, too. Everything from international law to, you know, we we've got ships down there now, probably subs, you know, you got to be careful where are we going to put guys. You know, it's been shifty in the past, but I mean, if they consider him a terrorist, just like the uh the cartels, they're they're going to be able they're going to be able to do what they did in Iran and hit him with bombs. >> You think it's going to be harder to catch him or harder to catch Osama bin Laden? >> Uh probably Maduro. Probably harder to get him. >> Really? Tell me why. >> Unless Well, if you want to hit where he's living, hit him with a bomb. That's probably not that hard. But then you're tiptoeing the line of Okay. His election is is not necessarily the cleanest one ever. He's still an elected official in a sovereign nation, right? So, can you just go bomb him because you don't like him? We've tried it a lot and it hasn't ended. Well, what what do we do then after that? Because we've tried to instill our own guys there, too. Uh we've done it before. Try to uh put freedom places that they don't want it. It's is it our job to do that? You know, stop this [ __ ] at the border, which I think they're doing. It's there's a lot going on. I again, I'm not privy to all of it right now. I know the Secretary of Defense I I know a lot of the guys in the cabinet, but they haven't asked for my opinion. If if you were handed $10 million to go get him, would you be able to know how to get them? Like, you think you can put a team together to get them? >> Uh $10 million? Oh, I don't know. I mean, I have to get I'd have to find my best Spanish speaking friends and then I'd look at the private sector with some of their stealth submarine technology. Uh you need to find a way to get inside of someone. So, you need human intelligence inside. You got to get them with a coup, which I think would be I think that's is that happening in Iran right now? What are they doing with the uh >> That's a That's what they did in 79. They're trying to do it again. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's not something as as uh crazy as the Islamic Revolution, but you're going to need to get him inside. I mean, even with like one of the biggest mistakes we made in Iraq was uh get rid of the bath party. U his generals and leadership are not they don't necessarily believe everything Saddam is doing, but we've seen what Saddam does to people that that even cross him a little bit. It's like a a vote in North Korea, like they're having a competition who can clap their hands the fastest. Um, but I think if you get inspire, if we had the bath party and just kept him in power, there wouldn't have been a lot of the looting and stuff. There certainly would have been that bad of a civil uh war between the Sunni and Shia. But again, we just didn't understand it. So, what do you do in Venezuela? H how do you get a coup in in Iran? You um you don't want to insert the Sha's son. I don't think you know more about it obviously than I do. But I somehow you got to find the will of the people. But we've shown before that the people will rise up to a point then we just stop supporting him. We did it in early 90s with uh with the Shia in in in Iraq. You just we'll come in. We'll get them out of Kuwait and then we'll march back. Well, we just backed out. Uh look what we did in Afghanistan. Let's leave everything there. We're leaving our allies in central Afghanistan. And you get to the point where who's going to trust us? Like if they're willing to go and they're all in. Are we all in? Have we been all in? So it's I don't $10 million. I don't I don't know if it'd be enough. >> You don't think 10 million? >> Well, it depends on how many guys and and now we're talking about the private sector like Blackwater type [ __ ] They're going to want to get paid. So, so if it's dead or alive, if it's dead or alive, you're saying 10 million. You don't think you could do it? >> Well, based on the budgets that we spend with the military, I don't think 10 million is enough. >> What do you think it would take? >> Uh, I'd have to break it down. I don't know. Um, uh, >> what do you need like right off the bat? Like, >> you need you need sources. >> So, you need like a Maya. >> Yeah, >> probably like that on the private PMC side. How much do they run you? Oh, I don't I wouldn't even know there because they're betting their lives on it. I don't even know what it's worth to them. I think 25 million was a was short on. And then if you get someone like that too, if you're a true believer, uh are you going to give it all up for a little bit of money? You need to pay them more. You need make you need to make it like lifealtering for their family money, which I mean 10 million is a good start, but if you talk about the logistics that go into it, well, how are you going to do it? I mean, ideally, internally without dropping bombs, but if you start dropping bombs, how expensive they are. And do you have 10 million for a military operation? Absolutely not. We We wouldn't even get the door closed at the Pentagon for $10 million. I mean, toilet seats are 700 bucks a piece. But I'm telling if the PMC, if you started a PMC right now, somebody came in and said, "Look, I'm going to fund the PMC. I'm going to run it. You tell me a team to put together. Can you get the job done with a $10 million contract? We'll go get some private military guys." >> You were saying you couldn't do it. >> No. 50 million probably. >> 50 million. Mhm. >> So then the bounty's right on the point. Right on. >> You know what? That's a That's a great point right there because I'm sure they did a little bit of math and that's what they came up with. >> Well, Eric Prince was on the podcast. I I don't know when this was a year year and a half ago and we're talking about Venezuela and by that time there was no bounty on uh on him. Is that it, Rob? Where it's at? >> I'm still looking for it. >> Okay. And and he said for $40 million he could topple the regime in Venezuela. That's what Eric Prince says. And Beric Prince is >> Yeah. He's he's got the background, too. He would know more than I do. Uh, and if I said 40 million, I'm keeping 10 myself, obviously. >> That's exactly the the the number. >> So, you're saying 4050 million bucks to get the job done in Maduro. >> Mhm. But yeah, I mean, how much is it going to cost to find out where he is? And then you've got to vet your sources. Uh, is it one guy telling me or do I have five? And what what's what do they want out of it? Where do they live? Do they know each other? Um, and and we need to have confidence in where he's at. So, we need proof of life a few times. And then how often does he move? He's not going to be doing the same patterns. He's not going to be taking this if anywhere. Who like does like who are his food tasters? Are they family? You know what? What do you poison him? Do you do you talk him out of it? Uh do you make him a source? Probably not. I bet they've tried that. >> What do you do if you do that? You He's going to have to come up here and hey, what where you going to let me let me live? >> Yeah. >> How am I going to live? You're going to put me somewhere in the city of DC with all the other informants? >> No, I think we'd offer Dubai at that point just cuz it's nice. Is that how is that is that a model or is that just a you know I think we should off from Dubai. Have we done this in the past with other people? >> I don't know. Well, I'm just seeing what's happening in Europe and what's happening in parts of the Middle East. They're turning the Middle East into what Europe used to be like. And it almost seems like Yeah. Don't don't mess around here now. Like I would feel safe going to Dubai. Uh I wouldn't go to London. So >> no, there's no question. But but why not London? What do you not feel safe about London? >> Uh just the it just seems Well, the first thing would be because of my Twitter handle. Maybe I've said something they don't like uh about anything from open borders, mass migration to uh men and girls sports. We just had a dude arrested at at Heathrow for his Twitter. He was a comedian at Twitter handle arrested jail. Like they had to bring him to the hospital because of stress levels. I wouldn't go there for that. Um I don't want to get in a knife fight. That would happen in London. >> Easy. >> So, uh but Dubai, like we would say Dubai is great because uh they're not going to tolerate it. >> It's one of the safest places by the way. >> Right. Yeah. And it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Mhm. >> It's beautiful. Nothing like it. So, okay. So, Maduro 50 million. Not not only does the number sound like pretty accurate, but for you, you don't even know the motive of going after a guy like that. >> No, I mean, it's it's the it's the drugs coming in and out, but there's I think there's probably different ways of dealing with it. You you got to start with the Mexican government and what what are you know, what are they getting out of it? Why aren't they stopping it? I mean, look how quick they shut the border down between open borders to now we're shutting it down. Uh now, I mean, now we're at a point now. I think I think even with uh with marijuana like we're smug we're smuggling it into Mexico now because we're growing better stuff in California. So I I guess you got to it's one of those uh put yourself in someone else's shoes and what's their motive for being here? Uh is it because of the drugs? Yeah. Um is it because of the violence? Possibly. But the violence come with the drugs. So I mean it's everything from the legalization. Do you make stuff legal? So the demand uh uh there's not a reason to kill each other over it. There's a lot involved with this and and as we've seen with everything from like USA ID, where's the money actually going? What are people's motives? >> How much of your confidence of going and taking him out was in your training preparation? And how much of it was in Maya and her team that was able to tell you, you know, I know exactly where he's at. He's here right now, third floor. I don't know why you guys are not going right now. How much of it was that? Because when I asked you to go get him, what would you need? The first thing you said is, "How am I going to get my intel?" >> Well, yeah. If we had a team, which they probably do, I'd want to talk to them first because like I was saying months before that I was joking with terrorists about where's Bin Laden, knowing we're never going to find him, but they knew. So, right now, someone probably does. It's a question of when do you pull the trigger and how? Cuz I mean, even with us at I mean, we were told a two, three weeks before they already had five options. They let us know about maybe there was more. What else? You know, how else are they are they going to do it? Um, so, so there's there's just so there's so much to consider. >> Do you automatically see when they put if if you think about the history of us putting bounty on different people so far bounty we put on two people at that number they're gone. Do you think the fact that the US government put 50 this guy's days are numbered he's going to be done out in no time? >> I think the bounty is more of a guys that are close to him and realize they can get the bounty just for for information leading to his death. That's I think that's the money >> insider turns against them to get the 50. >> We've seen it before with uh I think with U and and Kus Hussein. I think it was a relative that realized there was like 20 million or something like that on both and they're both in the same place. Yeah. It's like wait a minute, I can just tell them where he is and then I can get both paychecks >> and that and then you know if they get some sort of agreement in monetary value maybe. So uh because when you start talking about the the budget to kill someone use the military they don't really care. It's it's the incentive. What would that look like if if I'm a if I'm a guy to him where I'm sick of it myself, Venezuela, do I find a way through signal to get a hold of somebody and say, "Hey, I know where he's at. I'm an insider. What can you guarantee for me to be safe?" >> Yes. >> And then does somebody say, "Take them out. We'll pay it to you and go." H how does that communication work? >> Uh that's a good one, too, because as we've seen, signal can get I mean, I don't think anything's really secure when you get down to it. Someone's listening to something, especially with AI now the way it is. I think that you have to get your team inside who's willing to take the spot on the throne and then we have to discuss how do we get this out and then what do we do as soon as it's over type stuff because because you're making a big announcement of $50 million people see that and then the realization this is closer than I think. So what can the three of us here do >> to take him out and even plausible deniability but now but then with them how do I get a source is that a double or triple agent? Who am I talking to about this? And then Maduro, I've never met him, but it strikes me as a guy that you don't want to be in a room with him and his henchmen when he finds out you double crossed him. >> No. >> So, there's a lot of uh personal risk there, too. And and again, it comes back to trust. Who uh who do you trust, especially in the US government? >> Who does he trust? >> That's it. >> I mean, you know, >> well, he's paying his guys off, too. >> I know. But 50 million once they announce something like that, you paying your guys that kind of money? I don't think so. They just seized $700 million of his assets. By the way, his plane is 500 yards this way. No kidding. No, I'm telling you, 500 yard. This airport right behind you, there's a part where it's about, you know, probably quarter of a mile. All the planes that is there is planes that the government has seized from individuals. They seize $700 million of the guy's assets. Multiple private jets. One of them is right here. >> No kidding. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I know he had a lot of assets. And it's another thing, too, with how uh how much does Oh, wow. >> $700 million. Now, does that put a uh put a big damper in what he's got going on? Because I mean, when we hear uh uh Elon Musk is the richest person in the world, I I bet Vladimir Putin has more money than he does. >> You're you're in that mindset. You think he's got more money? >> Oh, yeah. There are dudes in Saudi Arabia having uh you know 747 competitions who can buy one for their buddies type. Like there's people with a lot more money than Elon Musk. I is he one of them? He's in the drug trade. He's in a right spot, a country that he he runs. What's his GDP? >> I guess if but but even if he got 700 million, >> that's a chunk of change. If they're trying to give $50 million, $700 million is not a lot of money to keep all your guys happy. So if the US government really wanted to divide and conquer the 50 million creates such a distrust in your team, what do you do next? >> Well, that's it, too. It does. It creates distrust. That's why I guess you got to keep your keep your circle small. >> Yeah. >> But then who I mean, who are you dealing with with the United States? Like you have a source that tells you they're going to pay this money or get it to. Who are they for? I mean, is it is it a test of loyalty? And again, that's that's back to the whole thing of uh once we get rid of them, don't necessarily get rid of the entire regime because they do know the uh chain of command. >> Rob, how many big bounties has the US government ever put on someone's head? Like, think about the big bounties. I'm actually curious. We know about three of them so far. >> I know. I know Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, uh I don't think they even put one in Iran. Uh Maduro, and then I I'd have to look that up. I don't know. >> Rob, are you are you looking it up? I'm talking about Rob and uh um it balan. I'm I'm actually curious because what I'm trying to find out is, you know, who who has survived it, who has made it, you know, who has been able to Osama had 25, Saddam had 25. Immad Mi had 15, Race of 25. Usain Hussein Hussein 15 million a piece. Maduro's got the 50. Now what is the like you know when would put a uh fatwa on different people? He put on a salon rushi. Yeah. >> When he wrote that book satanic versus nothing happened to him at the beginning. Later on he was stabbed on stage. Yeah. >> Um who was that? Faustoidro messa flores el chapoidro. Rob can you check how many of these people are alive? Because a lot of them we mentioned were eventually taken out by the military. >> Well, that's what I'm thinking. What I'm trying to think is the ultimate fatwa is when the US government puts it on you if you think about it, right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> So, what's the likelihood you're going to make it? >> Yeah. I don't know. I mean, some of the ones we were there, we were at war in the country or a country nearby. Uh, but again, Udus, even Saddam in the hidey-hole, like someone someone knew he was there so they can get paid. So, the the monetary aspect works. And I think with Maduro it's going to be different because you you know um not so much Saddam but Osama bin Laden surrounded himself with true believers so the money doesn't matter to them and they you know they want to be martyrs anyway. So the money means nothing. Um but yeah with him I mean it's going to be the guys around that want to get paid. It's going to be that simple. But it's a question of how do we do it? Yeah. I mean, if we that that could be the reason that we have uh so many milit not so many but the the military assets that we have around South America right now are are enough to launch. >> Yeah. But if if you work for Maduro and you know Maduro's got $700 million of assets that was seized of taking money away from its people and you yourself are making three grand a month and you're kind of like, "Wait a minute. You you you stole from the people and you haven't taken care of me and my family and I'm working like a slave. Wait a minute. Why am I going to do this for you? You stole. It's not like you made this money the right way. I'm willing to take the 50 million." Handful of people round up. Boom. They go in. So who knows? I don't know what's going to happen here. By the way, going back to Osama bin Laden, the story about when I don't know who it was that came out and said, "Hey, I I they went to the government. They said, "We'd like you to release the 59 pictures you took of Osama bin Laden and the one video." >> And then they came back and what did they say? There's two reasons why we don't want to release them. One of them is the what it's going to do to increase the temperature because that pictures those pictures are going to be used to create hate and anger against and there was another reason why they didn't want to release it. Did you agree with them when they didn't want to release the pictures and the in the video? >> No, I think they should release them just for the the argument of of we didn't kill him or we killed a body double and now I mean even if we showed people it's going to be well that's AI generated so it's fake. people that don't believe aren't they don't want to believe. And then the I mean it is true that it's violent like it's not like a video game and his face was destroyed uh literally holding it together to get a picture. So we do have the ones taken from his bedroom and then we have the professional ones taken after at Bongam airfield. Um I and I don't know why they haven't released them. I don't know why they like I said you should hang them from the Brooklyn Bridge and let the vultures take care of them. That's that's the solution. Everybody can look but they don't want to. They didn't want to. They said about the shrine but then the videos as far as I know I mean I didn't carry a camera. I don't know anyone anyone that did. We We're not big into carrying uh video cameras the same reason, you know, for the same reason cops do it. They get busted later. And I've even seen from personal experience with Monday morning quarterbacks who were 5,000 miles away from his bedroom, but they know everything that happened. So, it's uh it's it's we I would rather not have video than have guys end up in prison if something bad went down that at the time because you're making life and death decisions in the blink of an eye. And if you have months or years to analyze movement, that's that's the problem. So, I don't know anything about the video. Yeah, that's the one right there. Risk of inflaming anti-American sentiment and threats to national security if the photos were used as propaganda by terrorist groups. So, as of 2025, photos remember CIA and >> Pentagon classified archives and I've never been released to the public and 2012 Judicial Watch filed the Freedom Act, but nothing happened to it. So, when you're there, did you guys have cell phones or No, >> I did not. Um I I don't know if anyone did. We we I I did have a camera and it but it was you know 2011 so it was just it wasn't an iPhone. It was a little camera. Other guys had cameras too as far as I know. >> People taking pictures at the time or >> uh just the official ones in his bedroom. >> Just the official ones in a bedroom. >> Well, not they weren't official but they were from the shooters cuz a lot of us carried cameras just based on the amount of shooting and killing we did. They would like pictures almost like a crime scene. Can you get a picture please of what went down when you went in the room which is kind of a pain in the ass but fine. Uh so we all had and we knew we wanted to get pictures back. God forbid one of the helicopters with his body gets shot down. We had redundancy with DNA a body and then different pictures were taken. >> How do they know? How would they know that some of you guys didn't keep those pictures yourself? >> We I don't >> Oh, no. Not I'm not saying that. But I'm saying say somebody's like, "Dude, I'm going to keep this and one day I'm going to give it to my grandson. Someone who doesn't believe it, I'm going to keep it." How How do they know what they some guys didn't take their own pictures? They don't, right? >> No. I mean, it must have been a trust thing, I guess. I know me personally, and I can't speak for everyone, uh, it was more of a get in, get him, and then let's see if we can live. I don't have time for all this other [ __ ] Like, I will get the evidence. I will get the body. I will find the intelligence. We got 23 minutes. It took us 47 minutes. We got to get out of here. We got to blow up that helicopter. Let's go. I want to see my kids again. Hey, what is up? This is Robert J. O'Neal, former SEAL Team 6 operators. I was fortunate to be on some of the most high-profile missions in our very long war on terror. But I am now on MCT and you can connect with me there and we can literally talk about anything. Uh you can you can text, we can do video calls, I can give you messages and uh you know go to Man, find me. Literally nothing is off limits. Any crazy questions you have that you may or may not want the answers to, I am more than happy to do it. So find me on Man again. This is Robert J. O'Neal. See you there. >> Okay, that's interesting. So, you know, when did you feel comfortable yourself publicly talking about this? Because, you know, you know, this isn't the first time you've been asked this wherein the community, especially when you're, you know, Seal Team Six >> to openly come out and talk about it. It's a little bit of a risk you have, not from anybody like us, but it's from your own peers that may say, "Hey, Rob, what are you doing? Why are you talking about this?" >> Yeah. Um it started immediately it with uh because some of the guys on the mission weren't in the on the third floor. They were on the second floor, first floor outside rooftops. The first question they got asked uh that that they asked when they hey Geronimo Ekka who got them and they would say they would people said I got that I got it was actually kind of funny to me. I'm known for like keeping morale up telling jokes and stuff like that. And my nickname was actually Nisro. NSRO stood for Navy Seal Rob O'Neal. Nisro and the most common thing was Nisro got him and I guess they would say [ __ ] we're never going to hear the end of this kind of joking but that happened and then so on the way though people knew we got picked up guys on the helicopters were asking guys on helicopters we landed at Bram uh there were air crew guys mechanics they're pointing at me everyone knows we had we we all stood around uh the his body when we landed the command the ground force commander I won't say his name he's still in he went to Admiral McCraven who was there said do you want to meet the guy who killed him and he said yes. He brought him over to me in front of the whole team. Admiral McCraven said to me, "Your life just changed like that." And it's and and then from there, guys got emails. They went home to Virginia Beach. We know guys in DC, New York, and Coronado. Guys are calling me because hey, don't tell anybody, but because they all ask who got them. So now bartenders know, everyone knows to the point where to me it's almost like look, the team got him. I turned right because of the guy in front of me. I don't need this [ __ ] And it just it it did turn awkward. So you're not getting the toothpaste back in the tube on this one. And then it just it slowly just came out. Even to the point when uh I did go back to Afghanistan, I did another deployment, gotten more gunfights. But when even when I left, um it just it I don't the first time I talked like talked about it publicly was when I donated my the shirt that I wore and the the flag that I wore into Bin Lad's bedroom anonymously. Like it's there at the 911 memorial still anonymously. I'm not taking credit for this. Um Carolyn Maloney, who's a who's a Democrat uh representative from New York, she helped me get the thing in the museum, but then we went back to a back room and there was 30 so families of people who lost family members on 9/11 and she asked me just to say a few words. So I told the story of Bin Laden going into his room, seeing him killing him. Uh you know, there was even firefighters in there. I had the FDNY patch here just so that you're going to see this if I aim my gun at you. And they just the response was mainly there will be no healing, but this is closure having a face with a name. And I was like, you know, my name's already out. I have written journals. I'm going to try to get it authorized by the Pentagon, which is the way to go. The Pentagon then gives it to the other agencies for the um the official version. And and they signed off on it. And I just thought if I can help 30 families with healing, I can help a couple hundred thousand just with a face and a name. So, you know, long long story short, that's that's how it came out. But, you know, my my plan was to stay in the Navy for 30 years, grow a kick-ass mustache, and be an instructor in Cornado. That's it. But, you know, you want to make God laugh, tell him what your plan is. So, it's it was not like I just, you know, killed him and then got on got on Fox News and started saying, "Look at me, everyone." >> The the book, the operator, um, how long did the approval process of the book take? >> That only took about eight months for me, and that was surprising. I thought that I thought it would still be there. Yeah, because it has to get approval from everyone involved. And uh I'm assuming like Seal Team 6 would see it and just throw it right in the trash or someone at the agency. But it was it I mean I think it was well written and and it wasn't a political bias. I started taking my notes because in 1996 when I checked into SEAL training my father who thinks I'm involved with everything he said take like even before I got there he said there's a picture of drown proofing in Life magazine with these SEAL candidates tied up in a pool and he goes see I I see the calves on that guy with his back turned. That's you. I can tell. And I'm like, "Dad, I'm literally not even in the Navy yet. That is not me." But uh he told me, "Is he a military guy?" >> No, no, no. Just uh he's he's my I grew up playing basketball with obviously grew up with him. Uh but uh um >> your dream was to go into college basketball and work with him. Yeah. But uh uh um yeah, it just uh um he said, "Start writing a journal. Someone's going to want to read your This is back in 96. Start writing a journal. Someone's going to want to read it." And my response to him was, "Who was gonna want to read my book? No one." But I did that. And so I had a manuscript and then I just put the extra chapters in. I was like, you know what, I'll get it edited and we'll just see what happens. And they approved it. They the only thing they took out was the letter six and they made me say special forces instead of Delta >> to say what and my years as a SEAL team six warrior. >> Uh firing uh it doesn't they took Seal Team Six off there. My years as a SEAL team warrior. >> Got it. >> And so you'll see >> why did they want that? >> I don't know. because they had to. Cuz if you read the book, it says spent eight years at Seal Team 2 and then at Seal Team 4 and then eight years at Seal Team edited. It's like that's kind of cool. I guess >> that was them. That's them telling you this. >> Yeah. They edited that out, put special forces and then even my publisher said, "I think we have a book." Like this is ready to go. So, so h after the book was released, your peers, the guys that were there, the guys that are in the game, the guys from, you know, prior to you, post you, how many of these guys called and were supportive. How many were like, "Dude, what are you doing?" >> Well, it's it was explained to me when I got two things were said to me. I'll never forget the day I checked checked in. Like, so I finished selection that we called green team, checked into red squadron. The two things that were said to me were when we all retire and get out, if we all work together, we'll be millionaires, but that's never going to happen. Didn't make sense to me. And then they also said my commanding officer at Red Squatter, who's a great guy. I don't want to say his name because he's not here. Great guy. He's out now. I think he retired as an admiral, which is very cool. And then the other thing was this is you're on a a a freight train right now that's going 200 miles an hour that way and you can stay on as long as you like. Once you jump off, it's going to keep going. So, um I there's guys I haven't talked to since. There's guys I've heard from uh that are fine that are supportive. Uh just because I did it the right way and and there are other dudes not so much, but face to face everyone's been cool. I've had guys say, "Don't quite understand why you wrote a book." Which is cool. Um and then, you know, my comeback to them is like, "Well, you know, we don't write books." I'm like, "Yeah, I saw that. I read that in a bunch of uh books written by Vietnam SEALs. I've seen it at Barnes & Noble in the military history section. No one writes books." But I'm happy that people at le I wish everyone on that raid would write a book, including the air crew, because I'm very happy that George Washington had a biographer when he crossed the Delaware. Well, I know what happened that night. You know, I doubt he was standing up in the icy conditions, but I want to know that brave men went to do that to build the nation. And I want to know like I people now are more interested in the training to get there and the helicopter ride in and the helicopter ride out than they are what happened on the target. Cuz who gives a [ __ ] Bin Laden's dead. The team got them. But what were, like I said, the humanity riding in, one of my best stories is when we're riding in 90 minutes, the these pilots have been flying these helicopters for a week and a half. They're the best in the world, thank God. But we don't know if they work. We don't know if there's a a a private first class in the Pakistani armor looking that way with his finger on a red button waiting for helicopters instead of watching India. We don't know that. We could get shot down 90 minutes. We got to live. So don't if you're worried about something, your worry is not going to affect. you're wasting your energy. So on the right, I'm with dudes. I've, you know, I I've known everything about him. We we train together. We shoot together, war together, skydive together, all this stuff together. And I'm looking around the helicopter on the flight in as I'm counting to keep my mind off it, counting to the thousand and back. And the funniest like I laughed at this. I looked down and one of my guys had put his headphones on listening to music and he fell asleep. And my thoughts to him were, "You're asleep literally on the ride to Osama bin Laden's house. Wow, >> you have eyes in your veins and I see why women find you attractive. This is just awesome. That I remember thinking that then laughing. I'm like, "What the [ __ ] are we thinking about?" And then we get further in and I don't know how I remembered it, but I had the tattoo. Um I was counting. >> Is he still alive? >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. >> And I I said to myself as I'm counting 556, 558, freedom itself was attacked this morning by a faceless coward and freedom will be defended. >> And I don't know, that's what President Bush said on 911. And that's like the realization, holy [ __ ] this is the team, man. We're going to kill him. And if we if we die together tonight, what a [ __ ] ending, but he's gonna die and we might die with him. But that's that's why they sent us. Like there there's I mean there's no we're not taking him alive. >> If you go like this, you said what? >> Well, yeah. Yeah. And it's Well, and my my joke, too, is like uh if they Seal Team Six, we we we were like dropping a we're like dropping a bomb. We're just going to tell you that uh uh we're going to tell you what happened on board. Pretty much everyone's going to die inside if they're bad guys. uh if if they if they want him captured, there are nicer guys in the military than us. >> How many people got killed in that >> on our guys or their guys? >> Uh four dudes and one wife because and that was even something weird too that tells you about rules of engagement and how they're ridiculous. Why would you hamstring, you know, the middle linebacker on the first play on defense? Uh when I got in because they dropped us off, we blew a a a door that didn't work, came in through this way. There was already a gunfight in the guest house in the front and one of my guys had shot through from the outside through and he killed um the courier and his wife and he's a team leader like he's a senior chief in the Navy very experienced and I came in and he goes uh [ __ ] she just jumped in front of him am I in trouble and I'm like dude forget why let's go find Osan bin Laden [ __ ] the rules it's like she jumped up she's a martyr that's a good sign she's martyring herself yes he's in here come on why why what lawyer told you you should be worried about shooting the wrong person. That that's why you don't carry cameras. Whatever. We're we're here to kill Assam Bin Laden. We're in Pakistan. I think that's illegal anyway. Well, like we're under Title 50 right now. >> Nobody got in trouble, right? Nothing. >> No, no, no, no, no. And we're really good at this isn't okay, this I don't want this to sound wrong. We are really really good at compartmentalizing what happens. And I would even tell my guy my my because you got officers outside enlistic inside. And I don't want to put you in a position where you report to your commanding officer. I don't want you to be full of [ __ ] either. You tell the truth, but we're going to tell you what the truth was. And I'm serious because I don't want that Monday morning [ __ ] coming around. The best the best example of >> I'm going to tell you what the truth >> and it's going to sound exactly the way they're going to write the movie like three shots on the on this on the Somali pirates. Sure. Um but what one of the um one of the examples I have is Iraq. One of the best summers of my life was 2007 in Iraq because I'm a young Navy Seal, Seal Team Six. I'm here to hunt people and I want to. So, it was a we were I mean, we were we were the gloves were taken off. We're on kill missions to kill al-Qaeda because they're torturing the Sunnis. Like, they'll show up in town so we're going to find them and kill them and then the Sunnis started helping us. But like we would do target if we only killed 11 guys in one night. We're like why' we waste our night? Like there's more out there. But we're on We would hit a target. It's your target or not. But you find intelligence. Oh [ __ ] the neighbor he's got back. So, you run over there, hit the target, whatever. And we were really good. Like, we're not killing everyone. We're The more latitude, like when I bring up uh uh lawyers, the more latitude you give us, the better we're going to be. We're going to place shot. I'm not going to hurt these people. We're the good guys like the 2-year-old son. Al-Qaeda wouldn't have done that for us, but we're going to do this, whatever. But it's so fast because you we want to leave before the sun comes up with our our helicopter pilots can handle it, but I want I don't want to put them in danger. Daytime [ __ ] So, and we would wear our our um those like those quarterback things they wear and we'd keep our maps and [ __ ] >> and uh one of my officers kind of came in. So, he's a he's the commanding officer. We're doing our thing. And I was like, "Hey, we found this here. We're we're in building 211. I want to hit building 370. So, we're going to go over there right now." And I look at him and my boss and I said, "Shit, sir. You know what? You're in charge." And he looked at me and said, "Oh, make no mistake. I'm not in charge. I'm responsible. You're in charge. don't [ __ ] me. And then uh you know he's like I got the macro, you got the micro. So we would do that and even when he was >> that's the truth. >> Yes. Because he could get in like if if we did something maybe a general would be pissed about. >> I don't want him to know that happened. I will tell them it was very clean. We went in. Boom. Bad guy. Here's his gun. There's a picture. >> So is it kind of how your kids eventually get to a point where they sit down together and have a meeting and say, "Look guys, we're going to have each other's back. No one's going to snitch on anybody. And if mom and dad ask what happened, we're all going to say the same thing. We will solve it together here, but we're not going to tell them everything that happened. Is it Is it a little bit like that? It >> I think so. And if my kids >> depends on kids, I'm just saying I know some kids, maybe four of them, but >> if they if they were doing it for the right reasons and didn't hurt anybody, I can appreciate their loyalty to each other. >> Yeah. >> Uh if they hurt someone, I have a problem with that. It's like it's, you know, uh don't just lie to me because you're trying to get it. I would rather have uh you know deal with the consequences now because I screwed up and admit it. Yeah. Like some of the best bosses I've ever had. Uh cuz I if anyone says they don't screw up every day, they're just lying. I would screw up all the time and every and my one some of my best bosses would uh would two I remember two in particular, they wouldn't come up to fight because I'm ready. I'm I'll get defensive. I I'm going to defend my position or whatever. They would just say, "Uh, you're just so much better than that." And leave. It's like, "Oh, I'm never going to let you down. I'm better than that [ __ ] I was ready to fist fight, get my ass kicked, too, but you expected more out of me. >> When's your birthday? >> April 10th. >> My dad's April 10th. You're always like your your mind is always like this fast. How did you adjust from that to civilian where everything slows down? >> Oh, really difficult. Uh >> is that why the whole DMT thing you got on? Like is that's what helps you slow down a little bit or >> No. Uh no, DMT helps with the post-traumatic issues. >> That's what I'm because >> Yeah. But even you like there's some SEAL team guys you talk to they're not as you're >> I just I talk really fast >> but that that's because this is going very fast right so that that translates into this >> how do you how do you slow yourself down are you able to or >> well I quit drinking so that helps >> you make better choices >> oh absolutely yeah I've never you know what I like about that is I have to apologize less like check my Twitter and then like I got a bunch of phone calls to make on this They By the way, you know what Twitter needs to do? They need to almost say every tweet and put your alcohol level next. >> I was going to say that 18. >> There were years where I wish I had a breathalyzer on both my my phone and my and my steering wheel. Like, okay, we're good. Um, no, the DMT thing because uh again, the humanity, the realization. I'm fortunate that I've never killed anyone on accident and and this is weird too, especially out the combat. I've never seen one of my friends get wounded or killed in front of me. So, I'm fortunate, but I do often wonder about some of the guys I've killed and and because at Seal Team Six, like the furthest kill that I've ever had was outside, it might have been 20 yards away. Uh the most of most of them were in rooms and a lot of them were in front of family members. And like there was one house in particular, one guy in particular I think of every day because I I remember in Iraq I think Ramani coming into a room as a oneman. There's a guy in the in the main room and blast him and then I had to do a I did a oneman entry on a room that was open cuz there's levels of threats. One is an open door. You got to get the open door and there's unknowns and [ __ ] like that. So I went in kind of on a oneman entry which is not you don't want to do that. You want a buddy never want to go alone. Uh, but I went into a room and there's this dude um laying next to his wife and it's two in the morning and I go in there and he's got a an AK-47 right there and he, you know, he wakes up. He starts throwing these kicks and I'm thinking, "Okay, I just woke you up. I'm going to give you a calm down. Okay, come on. Whatever." And he starts going for his gun and I'm saying to him, I don't know if he speaks English, but I'm like, "No, no, no, no. Don't don't don't don't go." And he goes for it. Blah, I kill him. and his wife sees it and his kids are there and I start so one thing I wonder is now did I just kill a terrorist or did I just make three more >> then I start wondering well why did I this is later on this like seven years later it's like why did I shoot that guy it's like well because he went for his gun but why did he go for his gun well because I'm in his room at 2 in the morning why am I in his room at two in the morning well George Bush decided on a personal vendetta that we should just invade Iraq now he's dead and then you start to get further into it if I'd met this dude over coffee somewhere else in a different country did he know a joke. Was he cool? Probably not. Terrorist, but you start that your mind starts to wonder about [ __ ] like that and then it's like uh depression comes with that a little anxiety, sleeplessness. Like I there were times when I'd have to lay in bed and turn something on or green noise on my phone just I can't let my mind wander into this space. So I got into like DMT and stuff like that. I especially because it helps with the PTSD. But PTSD is not like a uh I saw I saw a funny one uh um not funny, but they talk about PTSD like uh yeah, Fourth of July sucks because it you know it reminds me of you know my wife had sex with someone else and now I'm afraid of fireworks like that. It's not the loud bang, but it's the it's when you get in your own head and I I just had two guys go down we have to go to Mexico for psychedelics because it's not legal in the country because it works. Um, and they went down and like I'm talking I had a buddy's wife call me and say, "Yeah, he's drinking heavily and I need something to happen. Go to go to Mexico, take Ibane, do DMT, and then they're just different people." So, it's the PTSD though is a weird It's a It's It seems for everyone it's seven years later. >> Yeah. I had a friend of mine who was Delta when he was uh he got my orders. So, he ended up doing 20 years. We met at Fort Campbell, Kentucky. Missing for 12 years. Can't find him. Finally find him. He's doing his 20. He's getting out. Hey, let's meet up. What's going on with you? I'm having really hard time. Where are you? Somewhere in Europe. I'm going to come visit you. I go to Europe to visit him. Sitting down. He is really going through it. Good guy. I think he's been married two or three times. Didn't work out. The type of guy that you want as your buddy. Like that kind of a guy. >> Came out, went through it very hard for about four or five years and eventually was able to find a way to enjoy his life and he's back to being a civilian. Doesn't live in the States. He's out. is completely he he told me something he says Pat anything I saw on the news I know what we did and we gave the truth like I'm there t I'm I'm all the major things of what happened I was involved in many of these things I don't believe anything the media tells were you ever at a point where you're in there and you're seeing how it's being reported to the media you're like yeah that's wrong that's wrong they're full of [ __ ] n okay great I don't trust nobody >> did that happen to Yeah, it did. Um, I wanted to believe Well, I when I got out too, I I went I went and worked for Fox News for a while. I I was interviewed on major media stations and to be fair, I I had positive experiences with everyone except PBS. They were horrible. Um, but yeah, now just seeing the just having seen, and I'm not picking on Fox at all of them, having seen like the the 7 a.m. meetings with the senior producers, here's a here here's the narrative we're going to push. Here's what you're not allowed to say. We are going to push this and say whatever. And then even so far up the chamber, >> that's what Fox would No, not Fox. Uh, I've been in the meetings, but I've seen similar stuff. I'm not trying to I just worked there, so I'm not trying to I'm not trying to pick on anybody. They're Fox has been great to me. Um, and CNN's been great to me, but they all have those meetings. They all have the agenda. They're all supposed to push something. And a lot of it's not true. A lot of it political agenda. And why? Who's getting paid for what? There are there are smart people on every network that have said [ __ ] that it's like, you know, that's not true. What's your agenda? You know, why are you getting paid for that? There's I mean, you know, everything from the, you know, I was banned from Delta Airlines for not wearing a mask, but you're not allowed to say masks don't work. because if they don't work. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't a lot of this [ __ ] coming out. That's why I'm glad Elon Musk bought X because that's a that's the fastest breaking news we're going to get. Is it always true? Probably not. The algorithm is going to push the agenda that uh you know one minute you're looking at breaking news and then all of a sudden there's a [ __ ] wrestling, whatever. Whatever. Um >> I mean some people like that though. >> Well yeah [ __ ] wrestling is entertaining for some people. >> Anyone getting in the ring beating each other up, you got to you know respect. >> Yeah. There's a business model for it. And but the Delta guys too like the like your like your buddy when they they they were in some [ __ ] over there. >> They saw the worst of it. So it it is uh to hear guys talk about it though and just acknowledge the >> they asked a lot out of all of us. And it's not even the CLTM 6 or the Delta guys. Think about the dude that no one knows about who was an E5 in the army and just drove around like Route Irish in in in in Iraq and all you're thinking you don't even have have to have been blown up but thinking am I going to blow up now or now or now? Am I going to blow up now? Like just the stress on you and then it happens. Um I know I I've heard of guys didn't know that died leaving the [ __ ] from a mortar. >> Wow. >> There's no front lines. We're not fighting in trenches. They are now god forbid with those drones. But there's so much stress there too. I mean just guys admitting it is is is incredible. But like for me >> dying like you're in the [ __ ] or you're leaving to get blown up >> like with a magazine going to the talk to get a brief boom just random random [ __ ] But what >> smelly everything and you're going to heaven. It's like, hey, >> life can't get any worse. >> Let me tell you, am I making it to heaven or no? >> That's not the way you want to go. >> Speaking of that though, going to heaven and psychedelics. The medicine talks to you. It's you talking to you. Your brain opens. One of the coolest things, especially 5me DMT said to me was the only people who go to hell are people who think they deserve to. And it sort of told me about healing and forgiveness. Right there, he said you think you're good. If you can love yourself and forgive yourself, then you're going to be okay. Do you see what Trump said recently? He says, "Uh, if I'm able to broker a peace deal," Did you see this one or no? >> Depends. >> You have to see this one. Rob, do you know which one I'm talking about? >> Ukraine? >> No. He says, "If I'm able to go break a a peace deal between these guys, I think I'm going to heaven." Have you seen this one? Oh, you have to see this. You have to see this. I can't believe he said this. I thought at first it was a joke, but he's being interviewed. Do you have one of those clips say, Rob, you have it somewhere. So he says, "Look, I think this is going to lock in a spot for me to go to heaven >> if I can broker a peace deal between uh um you have it somewhere, Bob. Is this the one? >> Yes. >> I want to end it. You know, we're not losing American lives. We're not losing American soldiers. We're losing Russian and Ukrainian, mostly soldiers. Some people as missiles hit wrong spots or get lobbed into cities like Kiev and towns. But uh you know when if I can save 7,000 people a week from being killed, I think that's a pretty I want to try and get to heaven if possible. I I'm hearing I'm not doing well. I really at the bottom of the totem pole, >> but if I can get to heaven, this will be one of the reasons. Well, I think I saved a lot of lives with India. >> Yeah, >> Pakistan. They were going at it. They were the planes were being shot down. That was going to be maybe a nuclear war if I let that go. And I did that through trade. I was >> his sense of humor. He's funny. He uh I he showed me the Lincoln bedroom in his first term. We went to dinner at the White House. It was actually me and Pete Hexth and my wife Jessica and his wife Jen and we went well it was funny too cuz my wife Jessica gets starruck and I I like we found out and I said hey pack a bag we're going to the White House and she said uh oh man is is going to be big dinner and I said no intimate and he goes she said am I going to be sitting near him? I said you're going to be sitting right next to him. And she said oh my god what do I say? And I said well that's the good news you don't need to say [ __ ] cuz he won't shut up the whole time. Uh, and he's funny, but he said with the Lincoln bedroom, we went up there to see it and and that was one of those moments looking at Lincoln's bed where his son died. Yeah, that's Well, that's before he ran, too. That's in in the tower. There's one of in the White House. >> How what was he like for you? What was >> He's awesome. He's cuz I the first time I met him is when he was judging or running the MissUSA pageantss and I was a judge. So, I met him. Yeah. Weird. I My first job was in DC, so I got to see behind the curtain a little bit. Uh, very up and up. I I wasn't I wasn't aware of uh the filth that goes on there yet. I believe cuz I came from a team and I believed in stuff. Yeah, if you look up the White House dinner, it's on there. But uh um no, he's his sense of humor is awesome. He's just a funny dude. He's big heart. But when we went to Lincoln's bedroom to see Lincoln's bed, Lincoln's desk where he famously wrote those like he's pissed off. Write a letter but not send it. >> Yeah. >> And then and then uh looking at the south lawn at night uh and then there was a desk with underneath his glass on the desk was the Gettysburg address signed by Abe Lincoln. And I'm having this out-of- body like I've seen a lot of [ __ ] but this is one of and I turn around and he said something along the lines of Yeah. He said something along the lines of uh you know not everybody gets to see this unless of course you donate to the Clinton Foundation and I'm like you you just can't stop like you you can't even let but it was just funny the way he said it. Yeah. He's I mean he's a good dude. He's look he didn't need to do this. He he has a good life. You know if you like being a billionaire and married to a supermodel that's a pretty good life. >> Did he ask you did he ask you a question and say hey so tell me did it really happen or not? I don't believe it happened. No, that never was brought up. So, what was the occasion? What was the purpose of the dinner? Why did he invite you? >> Well, I met him at first because he said he was thinking about running for president. So, and I was in Dallas, which is f I'm single in Dallas and I'm like, I got nothing going on. I'll fly up to New York and go to Trump Tower. So, we met there and then uh um >> uh and then he was elected and and uh I knew Pete Hexath from Fox. We were both working at Fox and and I don't even know. Well, it was his first term. So, Pete probably wasn't even consideration for SEC defe. So, he just said, "You want to go to dinner at the White House with Donald Trump?" I'm like, "Well, yeah, I want to go. I'm I'll grab my wife. If she wants to come, I'm coming. I'll be there." And it was and it was even even to the point where >> Were you a Trump were you was supportive of him at the time? >> Yes. Um when I I had just gotten out of the military. >> So, I know in 2018 you said something like the parade was [ __ ] or >> No. No. Yeah. Well, there was different Well, I don't I'm not a yes man. I'm I'm just going to tell him what I think. >> Uh well, the parade and I said because you're not I didn't tell him personally, but my thought was uh what you're not considering. >> Was that one of those breathalyzer tweets? Is that >> No, this was sober. >> The the breathalyzer tweets usually come with a mug shot. Uh uh no it was it was what you're not considering again is the human element because we were still had guys in Afghanistan and it's like do now should these troops should they be at home with their families or do you want them practicing marching for a few weeks? They don't need to do this. We our Abrams tanks were not designed to go down Constitution Avenue. They're designed to invade Iraq. This is a bad idea. Now the way they did it now was kind of cool with the with the I think it was the army's anniversary. It's kind of neat. But again, did those troops want to be there? Even one of my guys, one of my uh Green Bray I went to to treatment with, he said, "You see how shitty those guys were marching?" I'm like, "They didn't practice cuz they don't care. They shouldn't be marching. Just let him go out there and why." And you stop critiquing him, master Sergeant. What the But I mean, at first, yeah, it was a bad I think it was a bad idea. I still don't agree with that in DC. But >> sitting down with Obama and Fort Campbell, sitting down with the president, what did you notice a a similarity? Any similarities between charisma, charm, >> charismatic as hell, both of both of them. >> And you know, I met I've met President Bush, too. I met President Biden. Um I met President Biden before President I met him as a vice president, so he still had his uh >> charisma is cool. Uh to get to that level, you have to have a certain >> something, a certain aura. Uh President Obama is a lot more polished. >> Uh and cool. He's just cool. When he when he came in the room when we were at Campbell, we were all in good moods cuz we're alive. But just to hear, hey everybody, like President Obama's there with his tie and whatnot and uh uh President Biden is there. That was just cool. Trump is Trump's different because he's more of a uh he's more of a a dude. He's a he's he's more I mean not and I don't I know President Trump better than President Obama, but like um I think you could have a beer with Obama. My buddy Dakota Myers Medal of Honor recipient did what? You know, he finished half. He's like I got to give a speech. Trump doesn't drink, but but he'd be just cool as [ __ ] to hang out with. Um Trump Trump's a Trump's a guys guy. >> Yeah. Can you imagine? The guy doesn't drink, doesn't do drugs, doesn't do any of that stuff, but he's a guy's guy. >> Yeah, he is. >> And he really is a guy's guy. >> Yeah. and he gets out there like he was playing in the Rose Garden, his new sound system, and he's out there and he's kind of doing the dance up on the rooftop. But my thought was, well, here's a dude that runs these like his hotels are the best I've stayed in. Here's a guy that knows what he's talking about. He knows what music to play. He knows the ambiance. He knows everything and just and he knows how to troll. Like the media hates him, but he just always messes. >> He's one of a kind. He's one of a kind. I mean, the the the these influencers with what's going on with these military influencers, how do you process that yourself where guys are coming out, you know, for the longest time, you're watching Tim Kennedy. >> Yeah. >> And Tim Kennedy freaking he's a man's man. Whatever they want to say about the >> Medal of Honor or whatever the the the challenge was with that, he's a man's man. He fought in the UFC. Any guy that wants to sit there and say you're a tough guy, go ahead and sit up against him, see what he says. What do you h how how much how much criticism and pressure is there from the actual community, the fraternity of guys that went at that level to hold each other accountable and be like, "No, you never got that medal. Why are you saying that? Why are you overexaggerated? Why are you doing this? Why are you doing that?" >> How much how do you process that yourself? >> Well, with Tim, uh simp not simply, if you're a black belt in jiu-jitsu and you won fights in the UFC, you've you're very accomplished. That's badass. Um, his was a bronze star. Okay, there's there's two different bronze stars you can get. You can get a bronze star as an admin ward. You get a bronze star with valor for combat against the enemy. He's got a bron without valor. And I think on one podcast or two, he he sort of said he had a bron with valor, which to me doesn't matter. I have four of those. I don't give a [ __ ] Um, but they started making a big deal out of it. He started fighting back and then the book he wrote and other guys. I took him at face value. I've never worked with him. I know him well and I think the world of him. I think he's a great guy with a big heart family guy. UFC. I'm certainly not going to tell him face to face, hey, you're you're you're not a tough guy. Um but yeah, I mean I've heard stories that there are dudes in his unit saying, "Hey, you need to just chill out a little bit with this because it seems I wasn't with him at all." Um it seems that kind of a fishing story came about like he's sitting down talking like we are and kind of embellished a little bit and then you know you write about in a book that gets approved and if you're if guys are telling you you need to knock it off, you should probably knock it off if you're not telling the truth. So, but the vet onvet hate I think can be handled with a phone call and a face tof face meeting instead of online is a horrible idea to trash each other. I I think that's the worst thing you can do. >> How did was it was this the one with maybe I'm mistaken it was somebody else where three guys sat there they were calling somebody was that about Kennedy where they said oh okay yeah I remember that. So because I know there's a handful of these guys that uh there's one channel just flat out sister and calls people out. What's this one say? I don't even want to give him a platform former call that under investigation for false clement and blind receive bronson controversy came to light July 2 after military community members screw nights. Okay, that's the one that we're talking about. >> Yeah. So these three guys came out and they said he didn't and I think Kennedy did apologize if I'm not a but see that's not enough to when you're dealing with vultures like this who have probably survivors guilt because they never did anything. They're going to do everything they can. It's like the whole uh uh crabs in a pot type thing. You pull one out, the rest try to drag you down. And I mean, unfortunately, if you're not telling the truth, you got to remember a bunch of [ __ ] And that just seems the case here. And then with these D, again, I'm thinking the long term here, whatever. We have a problem. Like, we're 50-year-old combat vets. We have our issues. Think about the 16-year-old kid who's going to graduate college in a few years and wants to join the military. He sees [ __ ] like this online. That's not going to say, "Oh, yeah. I definitely want to be a part of that community." It's like, dude, you don't need to make it public. And certainly, just because you're trying to get famous off trashing someone who is famous, that just it doesn't make sense to It doesn't register. >> Yeah. I uh uh I I think they've gone after a few guys. They have. I'm one of them. >> He's one of them. You're one of them. Uh >> Latrell, I believe they did at one point. Which one was that one? That one was uh what movie was that? >> Lone Survivor. >> Lone Survivor with Mark Wahlberg, right? I think it was. >> And you got to figure too, the guys that are trashing him, they weren't even in the army yet when uh Lone Survivor I was on the mountain. I was there for that one, too. And uh simply saying his story is wrong. I would challenge uh without a gunfight. You go to the Corangal Valley in the summer just by yourself like he was. See how you handle it. Is the story not 100% like the movie? Probably not because it's Hollywood. That is a scary place to be. And just Marcus broke his back and was buried alive for two days. Don't say he's a liar if you have no frame of reference. I was I mean I wasn't even there with Marcus, but I was there at the time. I was awake for three days looking for him. And that's a hell of a mission. So >> you were looking for him for three days? >> Yeah. I was actually one of the guys to to one of the last guys to see most of those dudes alive. Because I was at at that safe house in Jalalabet, Afghanistan. This is June of 2005. And we had heard that that the SEAL team 10 and SEAL delivery vehicle team one had guys there. They were inserting in the Coronal to look for Amad Shaw. And my initial reaction as a young shooter like, well [ __ ] I'm going to get on this mission. So we drove over plus I know the guys. They had already inserted the snipers and I remember talking to the team that eventually got killed on Turbine 33. I talked to Dan Healey, uh, who's a senior chief at the time. I went to sniper school with him in 1998 and he's from New Hampshire and we [ __ ] good to see hey uh how about Sam Adams how great is that beer [ __ ] like that and we tried to get on the Hilo whatever and our command said no we're not you whatever however happens so we took the motorbikes back to the safe house have a good fight guys we'll see you uh later and then the sun came up and uh one of our bosses who was a ranger major at the time said hey your boys just got [ __ ] up and we got to go find them and we found out a Hilo was shot down um they don't know if anyone survived. They gave us they thought Matt Axelson and Marcus the Trail Railroad live. We got their cards that have like a picture and three sentences like uh my first car was a a Ford pickup that was blue so that when you see him he can you were going to know it's him and then they wouldn't even fly us in. We had to find vehicles that we could steal, Humvees, donkeys, maybe some water and drive as far as we can then walk up to the crash site. And so we got up a certain place and it was I mean it's hot, it's humid, it's June in Afghanistan and everyone around you wants to kill you. They eventually flew guys into the crash site. We turned around went to Assadabad. The note came in like even talking to the agency cuz we got a note and they said, "Well, we're not sure this is the trail. It might be a setup because he didn't cross the T's in his name." And we're like, "Yeah, but he got a social right. This is him. We got to go back." So we went back in climbing these mountains that are just ridiculous. Like my only complaint about the movie is the mountains weren't steep enough because you're in New Mexico, not the western Himalaya. So then we get up to the top, we're going back down, rangers come in, got Marcus, flew out, and we're in a spot like this is why train because we still got to leave and we're this is why training is so hard because if we wanted to quit right now, where the [ __ ] are we going to go? We're just here, man. We're just here. This is it. And so and then to see guys that maybe join the later three, four years after that criticize him. It's like, why don't we talk about what you did instead of what he didn't be proud of yourself. Don't bash this guy. I mean, he's going through enough. His friends died right in front of him. That's a lot. >> Yeah. It's a It's a It's a wild story. >> Oh, it's incredible. And no one knows what happened unless you were there, >> right? It's the thing with this, you know, with military, you know, for guys that serve. It's you you get, you know, you get I remember um when I'm talking to same guy I'm talking to about Delta. I'm like, "Hey, why don't you why don't you tell the story?" I can't. Why not? I don't even want anybody to know I served. Why? >> Well, because you know, we made a pack. >> Yes, they did. >> So, you you don't want It says, "Pat, I'm telling you nothing. Write a book." No. What if you you know, you can make some No, nothing. He didn't want to do anything about it. He didn't want to talk about it. You know, >> Delta's the best in the world about that. They I mean, >> why is that, though? >> They they are just really good. They're very prideful um about the the their their secrets of their mission and what they do together. They don't want anyone to know why they're I don't know. They just respect it. Like even I've been to their compound and they've got uh trophy cases and whatnot, but there's there's um curtains over them. No one can see them unless you're a guest specifically like from another unit and then when everything's secure, they'll bring them up and you can see like Saddam's guns and [ __ ] like that stuff they did in Colombia. Uh but then they put the curtains back. They don't tell anyone anything. Get out of here. No. And people say to me like they're like, "Yeah, silent professional make Navy Seals." No, we're not. Delta is the silent professionals. Not us. We're, you know, I mean, granted, there are stuff I I don't say, but SEALs are not exactly known for being the silent professional. Delta is and they're really good about it and they're very professional. Where does that come from though? That has to be top in training, right? So, >> history. Didn't the founder of Delta write a book about Didn't Didn't >> Charlie Beckwith is that his name? >> I something like that. inside Delta for Yeah, he did. >> But he wrote a book about it, right? So >> if the founder did that, then the rest of the guys don't >> Who at one point said guys I don't get if the founder Yeah. >> I thought he wrote a book about it if I'm not mistaken. >> I think he wrote Inside Delta Force at Didn't he live in Frisco, Texas or somewhere in I thought he moved to like Frisco. >> Yep. He died in Austin. >> But he used to Did he ever live in Fris, Texas or Dallas, Texas? Can you see Dallas, Texas or Frisco? Nothing. >> No. >> Interesting. Yeah. Everybody would talk about how this guy wrote a book. Um, but the Delta guys, you can't >> they didn't they didn't like that. And I mean to to my friends who were at Delta or veterans from Delta, they were not happy with his book. >> Well, we've seen it with Richard DeMarco. He'd founded Seal Team 6 and he wrote a book. It was he couldn't get it approved, so he wrote it based on fiction. Uh, and he was like, they would say, well, people up top would say bad things about him, but shooters loved him because he got in trouble for doing the right thing for his guys. getting the guns you need, getting you the the plane tickets you need, doing the job you need to do. And he was he was loved. I don't I don't really know. Well, Delta's so secretive, I don't really know what they think about him either. I'd worked with Delta. Um, and they're fantastic. >> So, what was the biggest thing that you sensed about them? You got Air Force, you got the paratrooper, you got all these other guys. What was about Delta that was different than >> My initial My initial reaction to Delta, this is no [ __ ] The first time I worked with them was I when I would just checked into Seal Team 6. My initial reaction was that's Delta. I really hope I meet the guy who eventually kills Osama bin Laden. That would be so cool >> cuz you thought it would be >> Delta's of course they're going to get it and it's going to be in a landlock country. Why would Seal Team Six get it? >> Delta's going to get it. I think we got it because uh they concentrated on Iraq and we stayed in Afghanistan. >> Does everybody know like does is the consensus like you know how in the NBA you ask the current players who's the greatest player of all time? Young kids will say LeBron, but a lot of guys will say, "Michael, does everybody know tier one that Delta is the way to go?" >> I probably shouldn't say this. Um, but you can tell Michael Jordan's the best because he's never said he is. And I'm not saying Delta's the best because they don't say they are. Cuz I mean, if you ask me right now, we're we're better. Our tactics are better. We operated better. But pull a Delta guy if you can get him here, he'll tell you the same thing about them. And they were just I mean, they were awesome. It's >> But if somebody watches this right now, you're the way you describe Delta is that Delta's better than Seal Team. >> No, I didn't say that. No, we're better. Let's I'm gonna make that clear. Our tactics were better. I think I think we're I think we are tactically. >> Yes. Tactically, but they're gonna they're gonna pick us apart, too. Because our tactics were different. We It's hard to say. They were awesome. Uh well, and and could could be jealousy for me because they have this mission called vehicle interdictions, the VIS in Iraq on Little Birds, and you're just sitting on the like sitting on a bench on the outside of a helicopter that's so small. When you want to take off, you just put your thumb here and the pilot squeezes it and then you're hunting people. That's cool. I was jealous. Like, why don't we get that? Come on, man. And that's where even some of the animosity. Well, they're not that good. Yeah, they are. But again, but I mean, even working with him, it was such a good even with with Delta and with Seal Team 6, what I loved about it was every single day I get to go to work with people who were better than me. And there was no undermining like I'm going to take his position by [ __ ] him. I'm going to find out like even with guys that would outshoot me, which is rare. Uh I I didn't want to try to screw with him. I I would find out why did you move that pouch from here to here? What time do you wake up and when do you work out? Do you go to the range first or do you go to the gym? What what are you doing? What do you eat when you go to bed? What's making you shoot faster? Are you concentrating on from here to here and that's slow? Cuz slow is smooth, smooth is fast. Why are you so fast? And everyone did that. And so I mean, so we'd work with Delta, have different styles of training, but then we'd cross it and find the better way. And we were good at because we're in eastern Afghanistan, they're in Western Iraq. We would compare, well, here was the standard operating procedures. Al-Qaeda knows what we're doing sort of. How did they adjust and how did you readjust? And I got to tell my guys. So what's just to be prepared to get there. What what worked? What didn't? Delta got hit really hard because one of our Vietnam tactics was when there's an open door wide open. Run in there. We got to sol solve the problem. Al-Qaeda knew that from whatever they read. So they would have doors open. Some guys would run in all of a sudden there's two PKMs and they're shooting at them. So that then that's when we all figured out, okay, we got to slow the [ __ ] down. >> Who was most impressive in that with speed? Who did you see where you're like, holy [ __ ] Well, when I first checked into Red Squad, because we finished selection for Seal Team Six, and close quarters battle was our bread and butter. We're going to For us, combat comes down to an entry point. We're going to go here and we're fighting right there. Um, so uh um we were just when I we finished selection all based on close quarters battle, six, nine months straight. And I thought we were fast because the way you want to train someone with CQB is uh white lights, loud music, fast as you can because I want to see how you handle stress. you know, can you come to a situation, make a mistake, and get over it, and we'll talk about it later, or do you dwell on that and make a bigger mistake? So, you do that with speed, but then with speed, you get everyone on point. And uh I checked into Red Squadron. I'm in with the train now with my squadron, and they're gone. And I missed like where did they they're just going through the house fast. So, they were that fast. And by the time I got to work with Delta, we were already that fast. But then it wasn't a question of who can go faster, it's who can go slower. Who can talk less? who can who can effectively communicate without uh without talking because I would see guys in house like even on in in uh when I was training my guys a Hollywood thing is you put a bomb on the door fire in the hole and you blast it. I'm like look stop yelling fire in the hole. If you see an operator put a bomb on the door I need you to assume it's going to blow up in three seconds. Stop yelling. Why don't you just yell here we are. I had a guy in training one time. He turned a corner, pointed up and yelled stairwell. And I said, "Look, I'm watching you and you point it up. I'm assuming you either ran into a stairwell or there's a 15 foot al-Qaeda guy. Either way, we're going up. Shut up." And we It's like a when you're done saying what you're saying, stop saying it. Get rid of the noise and just read off each other because all that adds to is a confusion, which is good initially to see how you handle the confusion, then slow down. Uh, and then we actually started backing off of [ __ ] Like we literally made it easier made it easier for us. Um, we're going to stop with the lights. We're gonna we're gonna go quiet. We have night vision. I would even bring uh my guys into our kill houses when we had like a four-story kill house, brand new, but they're they're through selection. So, these are the best dudes the Navy has to offer us and we're going to train them up. And in order to show them why it's better to go with night vision and quiet instead of running cuz one of the attitudes was, well, we're going to get in a fight anyway. Let's get it on. It's like, all right, you're going to stand in the middle here and here's your guy. Like, we have simunition, which is like paintball. You guys stay in this room. Two teams are going to come in and get you. You can shoot them whenever you see them and then turn the lights off. Now my guys have night vision and all of a sudden boom boom boom they're all dead. It's like see that's why we go quiet. You knew they were coming. Now imagine if you're sleeping. You don't know they're coming. We're going to get you. This is how we win. So that's your lesson right there. You just got killed. You're dead. Now go go go do an hour worth of tire drags and come back. >> But by the way, was was the Maya girl our people? Was was she CIA or was she MSAD? >> She was the CIA. Did you deal with MSAD when you were out there or no? >> Uh, not intentionally. So, I maybe some of the intel possibly, but >> gather intel, gather intel sharing. Like, wasn't it CIA Msad working? >> Probably, but because we're going to be the guys um going in the house, it's better to not be associated with Israel. That's Well, because even as a joke for for messing with guys to make them scared and talk to us, like brought up a joke like, "Hey, can we like wear an Israeli flag on this mission? And like to hear a senior officer go, "Fuck no." >> Why is that? >> Yeah, just for fun. Like, >> but what what would what would the reaction be from the other side if they see you wear an Israeli flag? >> Well, al-Qaeda because they don't know what we're going to do to him now cuz the Americans at le Well, I I scared the [ __ ] out. >> What a way to throw them off if you wear Israeli flag. >> That's what I said. >> To say that damn, Msad's out here. >> Yeah. >> And what are they going to do now that they have me? Maybe if I talk, they won't take me to wherever. >> Cuz they fear MSAD like that. >> Oh, yeah. Well, I've seen it. Mhm. I've seen it before with cocky terrorists that spoke English because the way that I would set it up when I would do the interrogation is I'd put the guy right here. I'm right in his face and my interpreter is right here and we're going to talk this way. You look at me, listen to him. I don't want you two talking. I don't need some [ __ ] rapport. And I remember talking to one guy and he he said in English, "Dude, I know the deal. This terrorist." And I go, "Really? What's the deal?" He goes, "You're going to arrest me. You're going to send me to Abu Grave. I'm going to be out in 30 days. I'm going to kill more people, more of your guys." And so, uh, I said, "Uh, oh, you've dealt with Americans then before, haven't you?" And he said, "Yes." I go, "Well, do they look like me?" And he kind of looked down. I'm wearing no body armor, short sleeves, tattoos, and a beard. And he looks at me and I go, "Oh, we're not here by accident. I'm here for you." And that scared him. But imagine if I had a Star David on. That would have been badass. So just anyways, >> you just keep it >> like rip the shirt off and it's >> Wow. >> Yeah. So, so when when when you saw the Iran deal when when they when uh you know the B-52 bomber when they're going out there and and the three facilities that that we hit up and by using the intel from Assad working together was that a project that Simon you're like I don't know if they're going to get this or was that something like no we're going to be able to get it because working together collectively? >> Yeah. I mean that was a thing with me. I'm you know I've been to war and I'm kind of anti-war unless we're serious. like I you with them I I it was like I don't want to see uh an invasion of Iran. I don't want to see troops going into Thran. If you're going to hit this regime and their nuclear sites, hit them very very hard and then tell them no. Don't do that again. And now let's negotiate [ __ ] like that. That's how you should handle I think a war. And then >> looks like that's what he did though. >> Yes. And it looks like it's working because I don't know where the Ayatollah is now. Is he is he out yet or >> he's been missing for a while? And a lot of people are saying maybe, >> you know, the the the IRGC and I think you commented on this about a couple weeks ago, right? Yeah. What do you think is going on with >> Miss Well, I want to I want to say they have that that silent coup and then they're they're the people who were in place and the Iranian people. They I don't think they they're happy with the Islamic Revolution. I think they want what they had in 1978 back. Uh, and so I think that's hopefully, again, I'm not involved, that is slowly coming about and they just they have a a democratically elected uh, government in Iran because it can turn back into what it was. You know, it can be a destination. I mean, it's beautiful. Uh, you know, I mean, even hiring contractors, I've had people say, "Yeah, I went rock climbing. I was in Iran. It was great." I'm like, "I mean, it's great, but if they tell you you're a spy, it's a problem. But if you can have that back, get into the rock climbing, get into the the fishing, the water, the the the the sea, you know, it's like it's it's a it could be a great I hope that's going on now. >> Yeah, it's going to be uh >> I'd love to hear your input on that because you know more about it than me. >> Well, you know, the the reality of it is so who would like to see Iran fall? Who doesn't want to see Ron fall? Do they have the person? Who is the person at least before Humeni was a guy from France that was causing a little bit of the ruckus in Middle East so they can go and leverage him and he had so much momentum in the country. Millions of people are going in the streets protesting supporting Kumeni. >> They're not doing that for anybody right now. Not Resid. They're not doing it for any of the major Iranian names. There isn't anybody that's been able to produce that kind of >> loyalty while people are hitting the streets. A lot of people are saying, "Well, the reason why they're not doing that is because they're, you know, because we're telling them not to, but we have 50,000 people on our side." That's not how this works. When people really want a revolution and they're inside of it, you can't stop them. People going to go out and they're going to protest. They're not. You need visually to show anti or support for somebody. That is the only thing you're going to be able to do. If you don't have Well, no, it's not safe for them to do it. I I just don't think they have the right person right now. >> No, they don't. And no matter how many people for many years I've I've wanted Resa Palvi to be the person to do it. But uh you know I I just don't think he's the right guy. And I think he's a I've said this multiple times. He's a very nice guy. Uh sweet man, but I think he's doing what he's doing to make his mom happy and his dad proud, but deep down inside I don't think he wants the job. >> Say this is a this is a very very nasty job. This isn't for everybody. To be able to get there and get the job and and lead certain people, they have to know you're just as capable as they are to get to certain levels that, you know, they're willing to get to. When Trump got in, people said, "There's something wrong with this guy. He is willing to push the envelope as much as we can. We believe as threats." Nobody believes, you know, a lot of people's threats right now with Iran. So, I I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen. I I do I can tell you Israel probably wants somebody to go out there and do it. Israel tried to help Resa Palvi to go out there and get some attention, but the US hasn't yet gotten behind him and he's going to need us to get behind him to >> give some kind of a support, some kind of a retweet, some kind of a thing. Hasn't happened. Maybe it's going to happen next few months. Maybe it's going to happen. Hasn't happened yet. >> Is there an infrastructure in place where they can have elections yet? >> Oh, no way. >> I didn't think so. >> No way. No way. No. What what's in there right now is, you know, it's it's a war right now. who's going to be replacing the, you know, the spiritual reader leader, you know, and who's going to take No, it is a very, very different situation there right now. Very >> well, because I mean I and I just think from reading and stuff that when the Islamic Revolution started, it sounded great to them until they saw what it actually was cuz not everyone in in Iran's Muslim. >> Is that right? Yeah. >> But I mean, but if you talk to the like the normal person on the street, they think it's a bunch of jihadis. >> Great people, by the way. >> Yeah. That's what that's >> No, great people. Yeah. No, but to me they're they're I had the founder of IRGC here a year ago, nine months ago. We came in here. We we did an interview. He walked in >> and they're all like he's like, >> "What do you want to talk to me about?" I said, "What do you think I want to talk to you about?" Like, "I'm from Iran. You're the founder of Islamic Revolutionary Guard." Right there. Mossen saw God, right? If you look at the affiliation, he was the founder of uh IRGC. No kidding. >> Yeah. With Humeni. >> So, he was the guy that would open up all the tapes that he sent to Iran to create the revolution. >> Wow. This is one of the guys that caused Iran to fall. This guy and it was a fascinating conversation. Oh, I'm sure it was. >> He himself never thought it was going to get as nasty as he did. And then obviously eventually till today a lot of people don't trust the guy, saying he's still connected to it. >> Well, he's given him reason not to trust him. >> Yeah. Yeah. But we'll see what's going to happen. Did you ever work with the IDF or No. Did you ever >> No. No. >> No. Maybe ones and twos. I know they came to our compound in Virginia Beach a couple times. I was never there with them. >> Got it. Uh, and just I mean some I've discussed some stuff with them uh you know since I've been out. >> Was there any other military or you know tier one military unit that you work with that's not US-based where you said holy [ __ ] they got their [ __ ] together? >> Special boat service in in in the UK. They're incredible. And I love them because uh well I mean they're n well they're they're Royal Marines and then our our equivalent of Navy Seals. So Special Boat Service. What I loved about them was uh I realized that Brits are because I'm a huge believer in morale. Uh keep morale up, have a sense of humor about everything. Never lose your sense of humor. And the Brits had the same sense of humor, but just a little different. And I described them as like a piano. They're the sharp keys. Like I get it. It's a little off, but you're funny. And they were just great. And their tactics were awesome. They they taught us, they called it fibua, fighting in builtup areas. We call it m military operations, urban terrain. But they learned from fighting in Northern Ireland. uh tactics of, you know, walking down streets and where you aim and stuff. Just a shitty fight. Obviously, uh the Irish and and uh Northern Irish and and the Brits. And even uh uh when I started training at SEAL Team 2, when I first checked in, I didn't understand why one of the SBI FB SBS guys hated three of us. It was O'Neal, Brennan, and Brennan. And they hated us because we're Irish. I didn't from my town like why would you hate the Irish? But uh working with them overseas, a lot in Iraq, a lot in southern Afghanistan, uh in Kandahar, and those dudes just have their [ __ ] together. They're excellent. They're just hard as you come. Uh >> serious humor. >> The humor is great, but they're serious. They're hostage rescue snipers. Close quarters battle the water. They they uh they're like us, you know, over the beach, over the horizon. Shitty cold. Misery loves company. And it's like almost a Viking [ __ ] when the the worse the seas, the more they're laughing. Uh can't say enough about I've worked with the Special Air Service as well and the Australian SAS. Great guys. Uh I I have a lot I just have love for the SBS cuz I worked with them so much. So they were my they were incredible. You know who else is really good is the Norwegian Jaggers. Uh and yeah, they're really good. And um but they don't get to fight a lot because of their government. But we go up there and uh hang out in Norway. They skiers phenomenal. Rock climbers phenomenal. Tactics are awesome. And and what's funny about them? >> They're like super soldiers physically and shaping. >> Well, physically was funny cuz they're they're from Norway. So they're all tan blue. Like I'm not gay or anything, but check this dude out. What's up, dude? But it was funny though. They they came to Virginia Beach to train with us and and they said, "Well, you guys have been rolling through Oslo picking up our chicks. We're in Virginia Beach. It's go time for us. >> Revenge. We're going to come." >> But again, that sense of humor and just phenomenal dudes. The German comptor swimmers were great combat divers, the best in the world, probably. >> But yeah, we're um just Yeah, solid solid SPS those I have there's an affinity for them. >> Yeah, there's, you know, it's always where you know, like if you look at basketball, these guys are coming from Serbia, you know, these countries that are coming like who is Joe? Who is this guy? You're moving that slow, but you're making it look so easy. Now, Luca, why do you guys The way he goes in so slow, >> but you're averaging 30 points, 1010. How are you doing this? It's just a very different game. >> Have you seen the interview and they said, "Well, were you at all disturbed by the booing?" And he says, "I played in Serbia, brother." >> And they show that. My god, looks like a European football match. >> It's the best. It's the best. Anyways, brother, this has been great. I can probably speak to you for another few hours, but I'm getting texts I got at 3:30. They're waiting for me at the on the other end. But, uh, I really enjoyed it. I'm glad we did this. And, uh, is there anything you're working on right now that you want the audience to know about? >> Yeah, I'm uh, my podcast is called The Operator Podcast. Uh, and I put that out usually every week depending on my travel schedule. And I I call it the operator because I'm not calling myself that. What I'm saying is I'm an operator, but so is everyone doing anything to help anyone else that doesn't get credit. Like the I always bring up the trash man in Manhattan who wakes up at two in the morning, no thanks. He cleans Manhattan. The single mom is an operator. So what I do is I tell you my opinion as an operator and as an operator, I want you to tell me what you think. And unlike a lot of people, if you tell me I'm wrong and I am, I'll admit it. So the operator podcast is a big one. Um in New York, I just started the operator can of company, cannabis for uh again, sleep, PTSD, cannabis gets a bad rap. Uh a lot of psychedelic stuff, but robert jneal.com. I have I just started uh the operators collective which is sort of it's not a speaking agency but it's presentations uh everything from black belts and jiu-jitsu to seals to Dakota Miler who may mention is a medal of honor recipient marine uh if you just need uh someone to show up and motivate or do training or anything like that we just started it so we're not even sure what it is. >> Are you on MC by the way cuz people >> I am right now. I just heard >> you're on Okay. So MC our audience is definitely gonna reach out to you Shipley and Cole got on it and boom non-stop people >> reaching out doing stuff with them. So, but we're going to put the link below to your website on how to find you, and we're going to put the link to your uh >> uh podcast as well. By the way, a story just came out that you may want to Rob, share the story with them about how trashmen in certain jobs are more comfortable with their lives and they're better at pressure under pressure because they don't worry about what people think about their jobs. Give it to him afterwards. I think you'll be able to share that with some of the podcasts that you're doing. My man, this was great. Again, thank you for your service. I enjoyed it. Take care. Bye-bye. >> Hey, what is up? This is Robert J. O'Neal, former SEAL team 6 operators. I was fortunate to be on some of the most high-profile missions in our very long war on terror. But I am now on MCT and you can connect with me there and we can literally talk about anything. Uh you can you can text, we can do video calls, I can give you messages and uh you know go to Man, find me. Literally nothing is off limits. Any crazy questions you have that you may or may not want the answers to, I'm more than happy to do it. So find me on MCT. Again, this is Robert J. O'Neal. See you there.