Open Source in Education - ASHS One Year On

some cases so it's great to have here today somebody who can give us some real life experience of uh I guess it's not too hard to introduce kids to uh something like Linux but uh people like teachers I find are some of the people who are least receptive to new ideas uh so it's great to have Patrick Brennan here to give us his story from uh in New Zealand and I have chocolate I know that it's the end of the day I know that everybody is tired I have a lot of chocolate I wasn't sure exactly what the turnout would be I've come to tell you a little bit about Albany senior high school and open source in education in general in Auckland now this is a it's a follow-on from a talk I did last year at LCA in Wellington last year it was a very technical talk this year will be a bit more philosophical again I know it's really late so try and follow closely I've got chocolate to try and assist with that there'll be questions um and if you're cheeky you might get chocolate if you Heckle you might get chocolate now I know somewhere in this room the spelling Heckler is here I don't know which one of you it is yet but I've made three deliberate spelling mistakes for you to find all right so a bit of a power biography um really there's a bunch of information there but the main main thing is that I was the lead engineer on the Albany Senior High implementation and that I am as well a father although my kids are a little bit too young to be in a senior high at this stage so I'll give you a bit of a background in school it's been operating for two years it was a Greenfield school completely new school completely new what what where who was that are two of you that works I'm not renowned for my throwing anyone that was oh hey I've gotten better so all right yeah for the person that conduct there we go so a green field skull uh completely new completely new philosophy they're a Ministry of Education Flagship school okay so if you're what if you were to walk into Albany you would see some significant differences immediately the first thing that you'll notice is there aren't really any classrooms now there are some specialist topic rooms so the music rooms obviously are sound insulated rooms because you don't want Mega Death disrupting the English class and the science labs are science labs with fume hubs and that sort of thing because you don't want however in this room made chlorine inadvertently in their science class poisoning the whole school all right the whole right hand side so that's down the left hand side it's basically a big long School in a line the whole run side is open plan two floors of open plan spaces and the idea with that is is that an English teacher who is maybe teaching Anne Frank's diary in the class of studying Anne Frank can liaise with the class and the geography teacher that is teaching the geography of Europe can liaison interact with a history teacher that is teaching the history of World War II or an art teacher that's doing Holocaust ad there's also no computer labs so there's no concept of you know well now it's computer lab time we're going to go and do it now what you'll find is that there are computers through all of the learning Commons so as it's appropriate during any educational session for a student to use a computer computer is there rather than having this you know we've got English we've got math we've got computer type okay so it is quite integrated now the other interesting difference in the school is that they only teach four days a week and the fifth day and I believe last year this was a Wednesday for what it's worth um students do what are called impact projects are those are self-driven projects and I'll give you a couple of examples one non-it-1it so one example that commonly comes up is students that maybe want to do some fundraising so the student would be in a group they'd be expected to perhaps choose a charity contact the charity liaise with the charity and say Here's what we're planning to do we're planning to to raise you some money we're going to have a sausage Sizzle or a disco those lines that they would then be to write a business plan and present that to the school and the school would say okay well you're going to need 380 worth of sausages and 250 of bread and some tomato sauce and you have a sound business plan here's your money for that students will then run that event take the the money that they received from that pay the school back for the portion that you know for supplies essentially and then deliver the some Revenue to their charity so all of the impact projects are led by a supervising teacher those have been a sort of post-grad level it's sort of like a research supervisor another very very good example because one of the people involved is sitting in the room at the moment stand up Shane Gettys now you can sit down again now um another very good example is a student a group of students in fact that went oh actually what we need is a video repository we need a way for students to upload videos and to go into a moderation queue for teachers to upload videos for that to be sort of private self-contained local not you know YouTube but basically a local YouTube let's call it our tube and um so the students got together they wrote the plan and they went ahead and they implemented that and that is now a core part of the infrastructure of Albany senior high now our tube is one example there's actually I think three others that these guys have been merrily pushing along through so open learning lends itself really really well to open source Technologies and we'll come along to that now just to give you an idea of the size of the school this year there's expected to be 740 students based on enrollment so it's not a huge School we're not talking 2000 but it's not a small school either it has a certain critical mass now those would be what 16 17 18 year olds around that around that sort of bracket there's a little picture of the campus you can see one of the two level main blocks and there's three of those blocks I believe two three blocks extending backwards again not to take a presentation today but I just did want to overview a little bit of what there is technically so all of the desktops and all of the teacher laptops are running Ubuntu and surprisingly the teachers have coped with that in fact jumping off my slides for a moment and jumping back to last year I told a story where basically Mark Osborne who is the Deputy principal and he holds the it portfolio for the school went and bought before his staff arrived 30 HP laptops and he delivered them to us and he said please put Ubuntu on these yes two very good so he he basically delivered them to us before staff arrived and when his staff arrived he said here's your laptop here's your laptop he didn't say here's your laptop and it's got something different on it you're gonna have to figure out how to use it it's not what you'll expect and it's not Windows and you're gonna he just said here's your laptop and um I was actually really staggered because when we went in there was staff using laptops connected to projectors that were staff and I mean I don't know about you but the amount of people that were shouting Linux consultants and Engineers that were shouting at their laptops last year trying to get them to talk to projectors and here were these teachers that were just doing it so there was no complaint there was no they just did it you know and I think that that was a good approach now coming back again mandriva on the servers there was some technical constraints that pushed us that way um terminal Services now stick this in the back of your mind because we'll come back to this this is important there were some edge cases predominantly the student management system which is really only runs under windows but is really constrained and it's scope it's it's for teachers it's not for the broader community so there are 30 terminal Services cows involved in that we'll come back to that okay Cloud apps most of the business applications if you like that the school users were provisioned in the cloud so Google apps Google Mail yeah that's all free for schools the library management system koha off hosted in The Ether so not necessarily open source not necessarily free but certainly Open Standards of interchange and often the cloud e-portfolios and the cloud now currently there are 11 applications that the school uses that are out in the cloud I believe with more planned so I'm not going to list them all I'm not going to go through them all I will provide a link at the end where you can go and go through the Albany documentation which is open and look at what those services are and how the school is using them in education they're all single sign-on or single credential so if you are external to the school you log in with your Albany username and your Albany password that's all from the Albany ldap server all from a central point so there's no I've got my password for this and my username for that and I can't remember this change your password in one place changed it everywhere yes that's that's specifically for the cloud services that I'm learning so those 11 services are all tied back to that Central Repository step further if you are inside the campus and you log into a desktop you're logging into gdm and JDM is authenticating against Pam and then for some Pam magic and some firewall magic which we definitely don't have time to talk about you are authenticated to all of those services so you do not need to enter your username and password again now I think there are some exceptions to that where there's technological constraints or more work required but essentially if you're in the campus it is true single sign-on you log into the desktop that's it you're logged in everywhere there is one Windows machine one token Windows machine is by the building manager because the CCTV software and the programming software for the swipe card access does not run under wine or Linux or anything other than well I think it was written for Windows 95 to be honest but it seems to run under XP now to give you a bit of a a landscape if you like um who's who's from where in here who's from Australia okay who's from New Zealand who's from elsewhere Lichtenstein no America I Know Who You Are yeah so in New Zealand at least and I would think in Australia and possibly you can comment on um elsewhere Europe so um in in those spaces the education environment is very very Microsoft focused would that be true would anybody disagree with that for their country yeah very very Microsoft focused in New Zealand at least it's heavily heavily subsidized by the Ministry of Education and therefore the government and also by Microsoft say it again right catch there you go see what happens when you open your mouth it's terrible I've got quite a lot okay all the established design norms and design patterns are around windows so if a school goes out for RFP and says you know we're a new school we need an I.T system I would guarantee that 99 or 100 of those responses would be would deploy windows we deploy active directory stack we deploy you know and I would go even further and say that the school would typically contract someone to write that RFP for them because they're teachers they're not Engineers right I would go further and say I would almost guarantee that that RFP specified Microsoft Technologies I would almost guarantee that the RFP instead of saying credentialing Source would say actor directory and would say Group Policy instead of saying what the actual outcome is and we've seen a few of those rfps and we've responded to a few of them and typically that's the way that they are okay there's also a perception that students should train with real world tools and I'll touch on that and get a little bit excited about that later on okay so free what is free mean unfortunately English is a terrible language and we have lots of meanings for the word free but in free software who can tell me what those meanings are looking for two of them I knew that one would come up first some of you some of you might call that beer some of you possibly would not I'm not going to start a riot but who was okay you sure hello okay free as in beer free as in zero cost okay and the other one free as in Freedom all right is there anyone here that can do a passable impression of Mel Gibson doing a bad William Wallace no all right three years in Freedom okay so let's talk about freeze and beer first license costs we've touched already on the New Zealand government subsidizing license fees now in my view and this is just my opinion that's a little bit underhanded the way it works in New Zealand I'll tell you why coming back to the 30 terminal Services client access licenses that we had to buy you get a form from the Ministry of Education that you have to fill out it's a Microsoft form and one of the fields on that form is quantity now this is where it gets tricky because that field is not excuse me the quantity of licenses that you would like to buy that field is quantity of qualifying machines and when you look at the definition of qualifying machines it pretty well just excludes OS X machines and that's it because theoretically they can't run Windows now we looked at that form we thought well okay so what happens we put 200 on that form and Microsoft gets 200 licenses worth of money from the Ministry of Education now that doesn't seem right to me because that's money that I'm paying to the government that I expect them to educate my children with no it's an interesting idea yeah well I'll tell you what we did uh and I don't know whether it's something yeah yeah I don't know whether it's something that I should be admitting in a room full of people but however what we did was went well qualifying machines an OSX machine can run Windows and it's disqualified because it has a different OS so therefore our Ubuntu machines that happen to be able to run Windows surely they're disqualified because they're running a different OS so we put 30 in that box but it's a little bit you can see with the scenescape and you can see how ingrained and carefully considered it is and again I'm not trying to necessarily be anti-microsoft I think Microsoft are doing really well when you measure them against what you should measure them against now Microsoft is a company and a company is supposed to make money for its shareholders as much as it can in any way it can and they're really good at that you've got to admit they are really really good at that they've built themselves a fantastic Monopoly what that's not good for is my kids education now web filtering as well will will touch on that in a minute but what I wanted to come back to was um Mark Osborne getting DP uses a term called learning tax and that's and that's quite a neat term that's quite a neat sound bite to um to troll up around to people if student wants to use tools at home or wants to run Windows at home they have to buy stuff right now I just dragged these figures off the internet they're not top they're not bottom they're just kind of what I could find quickly somewhere in the middle Okay so Windows 7 Home use 108 Australian dollars so maybe we want office as well there's another 160 Australian dollars somebody add this up along the way would be good okay maybe we want to do some photo editing elements nine it's 130 Australian dollars then it starts to get really expensive what if we want to do some video editing too there's 477 Australian dollars that you need to spend to do that now maybe my kid is interested in video editing but it's also a musician so he wants to do some digital audio work he wants to do some multi-tracking that's 832 Australian dollars but it gets worse because hang on keep going Pro Tools you want more chocolate you've already had some Pro Tools only runs on a Mac and it won't run on a low end Mac it needs a high-end Mac so you all of a sudden have to add in 2 300. Australian dollars gets very very expensive very very quickly what is it there's always one that was good I am so much better than last year it was terrible right what does it lead to it leads to piracy okay now I'm not going to stand up here and say I'm perfect and the piracy is wrong and that I've never used pirated software and you know there'll be plenty of other people in the room that have and I don't ever download TV shows but but we're not talking about what would I do we're talking about what an educational institute is representing to my children and really what they are teaching my children is well if you want to learn if you want to use this tool if you want to be equal to your classmates you'll have to steal it okay all right to web filtering um this is interesting because it saved the school a lot of money so it's it's worth mentioning schools Ley certainly in New Zealand at least out Farm their web filtering the reason that they do that is is not so much because it's technically complicated but for liability transfer if we're paying somebody else for this and a student access is something then there's a degree of liability transfer that's happened with that payment under contractual law hasn't been tested in in court in the school environment but certainly tested in other environments we've asked them exactly that's exactly right and I doubt that something like that would ever really go to court in that scenario but so the Ministry of Education funds the schools in New Zealand and it funds it to 10 megabits so they send you a Cisco 1800 router you put it in line with your internet connection you get 10 Meg out of it all right unless you have 11 of your core productivity apps in the cloud and you want to deliver a rich experience to your students and then all of a sudden 10 megabits supports well you know three students which isn't very many so if you want more than that and Albany has one gig fiber coming in which they're currently buying 100 Mega cross am I correct 100 Mega cross for that internet connection at the moment if you want more than that you need to supply your own Cisco router it has to be a watchdog certified Cisco router a particular device that is five thousand dollars for a device that will support 100 megabits so it gets very expensive very quickly if you want to go beyond that then orbits are kind of somewhat off it's very very expensive now obviously the school already has an iptables firewall because they're Linux across the board so why don't we use that IP tables firewall to take on that functionality and what we were able to do was build that functionality into the firewall so that we can basically filter out interface speed and Watchdog as a company is very happy for that and very very Linux friendly now taking that a step further and saying well okay that's great that's open source let's make it open philosophy that is now available we made the configuration and the steps available to Watchdog so that other schools can benefit from that knowledge so it's not just Albany that can do that now actually everything's going through Watchdog technically it's asymmetric routing it's an IPI tunnel and only the outbound packets go through Watchdog the return packets come back not through Watchdog but if you want more technical detail come come grab me afterwards but yeah now the argument that you'll hear against that from people as well but Albany had to pay to have that developed well yes they did unfortunately Albany is the first school and they're groundbreaking and they did have to pay to have it developed but they didn't have to pay five thousand dollars to have it developed you know it was considerably less than that I mean five thousand dollars what's what's a book cost twenty dollars what's five thousand divided by Twenty who what 25 is he right I've already thrown him chocolate 250. it's run by an order of magnitudes yeah you must keep it so no absolutely not oh yeah so yeah that's 250 bucks I'm sure a librarian would absolutely love to have a school that's the whole rack you know um so why spend this money and now other schools can benefit from that and for another school to implement that you're talking 30 minutes or an hour not the time that it took yes how does your budgeting work so if you if you have X amount of dollars and if you don't spend that dollar you don't spend that five thousand dollars on that Cisco router then can you go buy 250 books or sorry or is that if you didn't spend the five thousand dollars from Cisco then that's five thousand dollars you didn't get from the government yeah okay you don't really get to buy books with that I hear what you're saying um just for the benefit of the of the webcast the question was if we don't spend that five thousand dollars on it can we therefore take that five thousand dollars and spend it on something else um at a very low granular level I don't know because I'm not a teacher I don't know how that works inside the school taking a bigger picture level if the government's not spending that five thousand dollars from that pool and therefore you know there's more money in the pool then surely more money would be allocated elsewhere yeah it's possible it's certainly possible yeah you've got politics in the mix so I'm not sure if you're actually officially taking questions but um um is there is there any uh any mechanism available to the school that to allow you to propagate some of these developments that you have done so for example some sort of a code repository online or a forge or something that you can point people to when they they say well okay so what Albany did it sort of we will touch on that a little bit later it's more about um tools more so than perhaps particular Technologies in terms of this specifically Watchdog is the company that the ministry pays for for all schools in New Zealand so that the fact should go to and they now have that knowledge because we provided it to them so specifically for this yes for other things sort of it depends what it is how technical it is um now I also wanted to talk about a brand now I wasn't bold enough to to come up and stand up here and whoops dear what brand was that to actually endorse a brand because I just thought that would be inappropriate so let's for the sake of argument call them Dill which really works quite well if you're from Sydney now the reason that I raised this is because Albany ended up with quite powerful Hardware on their desktops but this particular company Dill was able to provide that with no OS so if you're if you're looking around if you're doing this for other schools it's worth looking at Dill Hardware because they will if you talk to them even if it's not on their website and I know it's a little bit different in the US but in in New Zealand didn't want to sell you a they do right yeah right yeah yeah exactly okay so moving on from free as in beer two free as in Freedom and Libra empowerment okay now the deputy principle is normally the school disciplinarian he's normally the person that says Patrick no you can't use that different reaction to remove the purple stain from the sink that you left when you concocted the first reaction that you shouldn't have and there's some of you smiling who know what reaction that might be I suspect okay so it's normally the dp's role to to bang people on the head and say you've been bad you've been bad okay now Mark Osborne last year took students to LCA and I thought wow and I stood up and said it that is so empowering to be taken this year those students came back and spoke at LCA now Shane is one of those students now I remember I remember when I was in school and I remember speeches who remembers speeches and you had to stand up and you had to talk you haven't had chocolate and you were daring enough to put your hand up you had to stand up and you had to talk for three minutes something that nobody else in the room could care less about and then sit down and then everybody tease you after all at least everybody teased me afterwards so that's it to be able to come down to linuxconf and speak to an audience that is a interested in the same stuff as you but B have specifically come to hear what you have to say about education in your school that is so so empowering and that picture there is n518 which is about the same size as this room with okay it's exactly the same size as who was that maybe I shouldn't do that so um I mean you know that that's a decent audience to address of people that have come to hear you as a 17 18 year old high school student all right so I think education traditionally was like education with benefits you had English and then you do some typing in the computer lab and you had mathematics and then you do some spreadsheeting in the computer lab I think it's much more empowering for students to have that integrated to have the computer spread through the learning Commons to be able to integrate that into all the topics so it certainly isn't a separate thing it's the same thing it's part of the same it's a different tool that you're using okay now nicely to be escorted to Linux conf I think you know you would have been labeled teacher's pet right who was labeled teacher's pet here yeah a few of you I I feel you guys but I feel you brother I've already got one yeah you're gonna have more than one because I bought 60. all right to take that a question just take that a step who was the person in the room that used to pick on the teacher's pet nobody oh the bully's scared now okay but I think access and equality become the norm okay access and equality become the norm now Shane was able to build an our tube server what really becomes oh for goodness sake have you had chocolate yet because that will consume the rest of the session and we have different people from different countries with potentially different grammatical rules however access and equality you know Shane could do something that Mark Osborne could not Mark Osborne could not have built an hour tube server because he doesn't know how he knows he doesn't know how but Shane probably couldn't have got that project off the ground without Mark supporting him without mark saying okay how this is how you get this through the bureaucracy this is how we get this off the ground and and Mark's saying okay well Shane you you need a little bit of help with um open ldap S because it's quite complicated okay well we'll get an OSS engineer to come in and sit with you for an hour and help you with it access equality it's different yeah mutual respect so you haven't had chocolate yet yeah your laptop's already been off the table once so maybe I'll walk that up to you now I spent a little bit of time with the Graphics and Design teacher before I flew over here and I just wanted to show some of the student work because these guys are working with inkscape blender scribers these are free tools right these are free tools so these are photographs of standing boards so the quality of them you have to excuse me is not amazing but this is uh the 2010 Enzo QA externally assessed portfolios so this basically is exam work for these students and I don't know about you but I look at that and think my goodness that looks professional I have no idea how you would do that with those tools I can resize a photo and yeah well how many Scenic heart would be where I would start so um you know I look at that and go well it's a magazine layout it really is it looks like a professional magazine layout now the same graphic feature is also Musical and he's started to you know he's never worked with Open Source before except last year when he started Albany so he started to say I want to try and do some music stuff on my laptop and I want to then teach other students how to do that on my laptop and um he's not a music teacher this is not his job this is something that he's gone oh cool you know openness open philosophy access equality okay what he said to me was that the first year it was very hard I'm not sure very was quite the word he used but difficult because there was no resource he wanted to do a contact sheet so those in photography basically contact sheet lots of little pictures of all of your pictures so you can choose which one you want from the negative Days running and um I couldn't figure out how to do it you know Photoshop it's click click click done right well documented couldn't figure out how to do it again had to go off and research that and then it turns out that it's some scripting all right so what he's doing now is saying well I've built this resource now so he has figured out how to make screencasts from his machine and he is madly making videos of how to do this stuff a to benefit his students but B to put on Wiki educator which is like Wikipedia for educators rather than Wikipedia for you know everything else and release those into the community so that other schools can use them other teachers can benefit from them and maybe people who aren't even teachers or students or you know open philosophy now this is the result unfortunately I don't have other schools in there from those enzoqa assessments and basically if you look at the other big schools who are comparable in size and socioeconomic status album is better in some areas and worse in others if that's a spelling mistake I'm gonna question okay so nzqa is New Zealand qualifications Authority it's some complex thing that the New Zealand government dreamed up to manage qualifications in New Zealand enough enough said yeah Okay so I mentioned that free as in beer and free as in Freedom I don't believe in that different in education I think they're quite close to each other because not having a learning tax gives you Freedom it gives you Freedom not just to use software free beer it gives you freedom to maybe make choices that you otherwise wouldn't make where you would be constrained it might enable you to choose to do video editing and digital audio work it might you know it might change the topic choices it might change your interests okay so access to Resource yields Freedom as well do I want my kids to be able to spend 15 or 30 minutes a week using Pro Tools on one of the five Macs that we have in the music department because that's all the score can afford or do I want my kids to be able to sit down at any machine in the school at any time and use a digital audio workstation use Adele or use lmms or at home and yes so taking that a step further what about the other 18 hours in the day the students are at school for six hours now people argue with that and people say oh no they must use the tools that they will use in the real world and I absolutely refute that because we should be teaching our kids Concepts we shouldn't be teaching them how to use Pro Tools we should be teaching them how to do digital audio work okay when we teach them to write we don't teach them how to write with a pencil and then how to write with a pen and then teach them to write with a crayon and then teach them to write with a paintbrush we teach them to write and then when they pick up a different tool our son actually you need to dip that one in paint first oh thanks Dad I see that's different to a pencil now you know we teach a concept we don't so unfortunately it in schools traditionally we've taught Technologies so we need to take the philosophies from the rest of Education these conceptual things and bring them across into I.T as well now School fund School funded some changes that they wanted in koha the library management software this is it's not Source available it's not open source it's written in Pearl but you can't get it it's just up in the cloud so the school subscribes to that but they wanted reviews to work differently they wanted some additional functionality so they pardon is it oh it's done corrected I didn't think it was actually open source but that's fine it applies to other cloud services more broadly conceptually anyway but they've paid for those changes to be made Kohan made them and now those changes are available for other schools now some schools and this is an argument that you hear some schools will s were paid for those changes why should they be available to this school here right we paid it's not your money it's my money it's my tax money yeah it well this is true this is true but it is not the school's money it's my money that I give to the school they're a very circuitous path to teach my kids now this is quite from the Albany website we want to create a school and a community where everyone has access to a wide range of powerful tools okay so that comes back to useful sound bite earlier from these are not toys these are not toys okay of powerful tools hang on on every computer at all times yes because that's not what you're using up there like even Microsoft Office 12 years ago it was completely different yes yes that is a very very fair and valid point Okay so there are some other schools around that have done this um a similar sort of thing in New Zealand at least okay so there's Warrington high school or Warrington school high school or a primary school and deep dark otago at the bottom of the South Island they run a sort of 30 30 PC lab of some form of Linux I can't tell you what it is and there's a couple of other big ones in Auckland Mission Heights Junior and almost and Senior almost done is basically Mission Heights senior and they've gone open Desktop but delivered over Sunray which from my mind technologically possibly wasn't the best decision if you want a really rich experience but you know we responded to the RFP and yes service yeah absolutely I'm thinking more broadly in terms of you know students being able to take this stuff home and work within and and use the tools more than that's actually a question that you should put to that man there who is hang on one second this is Rajesh who is the it manager so my question was just you know it's great that you could in theory take a Ubuntu install at home but you've probably gained the particular apps and things that why they set up at schools is if you custom made a custom disc or something just so that's all ready or is it close enough to standard installed it just doesn't matter I just to start the installation they just install Ubuntu Live CD or install OS and the original game pink Skype all that yeah so the students typically are fairly technological Savvy as students are I mean my son's 6.75 and he you know I I bought him an iPad just as an MP3 player and he's figured out all sorts of stuff to do with that it's not on the internet obviously but you know he's stuff that I didn't know that it did he's been merely figuring out and he's six so you know students kids figure out stuff I'm allowed to call them kids because really like young adults but they're pretty quick to to pick stuff up the Ministry of Education also is working on in a sec um open data exchange and um what they're calling SMS Le which is a work to replace some of these student Management systems that are windows only and webify them so they're working on that as a broader project I don't know how that's coming along yes I just wanted to ask you've got a sense yes but have you got us have you got a sense how the students view their experience at Albany High School relative to their peers at other schools like for example do they do they actually sell sell what they're doing to the other other schools where they don't have the the benefit of similar can can I possibly can I bounce that question down to you Shang because we have a student here I think that's the the right way to answer that um it's just whether whether you as students talk to your peers at other schools not at Albany who maybe don't have the benefit of the same kind of um same kind of facilities available to to them and do you sell them on the fact that you're actually using open source in your school or is it something that the students don't really think about um I'm probably not the best person I don't have too many pairs at other schools but um I know from other schools um at the junior high they are interested this is a little bit different from your question though they're uh they're interested in using our digital signage solution open source to put out notices for students I don't really know from a different student different School perspective though um we have a guy who's working with us now uh in Christchurch and he was previously a teacher at the Hagley Community College and several years ago he developed sort of as a rogue teacher an entire design and Computing curriculum based on open source and he continued doing that for several years until he was shut down by the I.T staff in the school who found him very threatening yeah but in the time that he was there for several years he was able to put he had several classes of students that came all the way through the curriculum that he developed single-handedly yeah and he found within weeks of being introduced to open source software they used Ubuntu on the desktop as well they would not even consider using Windows again yeah well I mean first start any of them that study computer science at University are going to deal with open source software anyway I just want to plow through this slide and then we've probably got time for a couple more questions there's only really one slide left so I think what we need is more people to understand this philosophy um because what people don't understand as you alluded to they feel threatened by and then they'll try and shut it down we need more media do we have any media here today no one sort of yeah we need more media to write about this philosophy it needs to be more broadly known and I know last time it had said dnet which generated quite a lot of interest and quite a lot of people talking to Mark and saying hey what have you done all right we need more social noise more teaching resource and more teachers to expose the the philosophy and Technical reference models because ultimately you're fighting against a well-entrenched well-established technical reference model now um groundbreaking can be expensive gonna skip that running out of time but basically on this on the question the answer slide I've given you mark Osborne's email address he's happy to take emails but just be respectful that he does have a teaching workload so you know be to us be be respectful of that I'm happy to take emails technical questions Glenn Ogilvy and the red shirt over here was one of the other design Engineers it's also happy to answer technical questions if people want more information about how it was built and then there's two Links at the bottom there how many Senior High School's homepage which has information on it and the wiki educator page available to everyone for e-learning at Albany and that will give you the tools that are used the applications how they use very valuable well worth visiting you guys found my spelling mistakes I will confess that I didn't think there are any I was trying to hack on the spelling Heckler back but never mind you found three nonetheless so I think we've probably got maybe one question there's one minute left uh you're very strongly encouraged to attend their closing ceremony where there are going to be lightning talks and announcements about next year's LCA and and various other entertainment and prizes so that starts in 15 minutes so I'm going to allow probably two or three questions but after that please make your way up to uh to the main building f so I think there's a question here hi just a very quick one you're storing your data in the cloud does this so I understand does this give any sort of compliance issues with with your government and stuff like that yeah okay so the the only compliance issue really um is email storage for the score and what they have done is purchased a bolt-on for Google Mail that archives that so that's still in the cloud it's just a subscription that they pay for I don't know what it is I'm sorry Moodle for learning management yes the school is using Moodle and that is one of those 11 applications I actually don't have a question I have a comment and a challenge for you yeah um I think your talk is absolutely brilliant um it's about an issue that I care very deeply about you deserve a much bigger audience than this one I would like you to team up with your Deputy principal get a qualified and talented graphics artist team to beef up your slides and you might want to be talking to some of your students there because they're doing excellent work get on a prestigious education conference and I want to see this talk downloadable from Ted within a year thank you it's an interesting challenge actually um what I would what I would say to that just to clarify I work for a company called open system Specialists and we're a consultancy an engineering consultancy so I'm not directly associated with the school but we have quite close ties with them obviously going forward but I I accept your challenge yeah I was just thinking that as I said it okay well I think yeah we'll draw to a close here so it's obviously been a great talk could I ask you all to join me in thanking Patrick thank you