Open Comments: S4 Ep.1 - Purpose, Curiosity, Mentorship, and Career Insights with Jon Johnson

Welcome back to Open Comments with me, Ash. Today we're joined by John Johnson, a strategist and adviser who has spent years helping federal programs navigate complex challenges, align priorities, and create meaningful impact. Let's dive in, shall we? Thanks for joining us today on Open Comments, John. >> Yes, thank you so much for inviting me. I really appreciate it. >> Thank you. To start, please can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your career so far and what experiences have shaped the path that led you to become a strategist and adviser? >> Well, to be to be frank, I wish I knew um something I reflected on and and really haven't arrived at an answer yet. It may not be something that you be, but rather just something that you do. My my path hasn't been a direct one. doing this was not something sought. It was really just a sort of a matter of serendipity. >> I worked for uh NASA and I worked for a specific program manager who's been with the agency for 49 years. I've had over 49 jobs in that same period of time. And that's not said without any exaggeration at all. You know, but those experiences exposed me to a lot of different people, different ideas, different occupations, different concerns, different values. um experience itself has been the the best education and I've been fortunate in my life to have had a a wealth of those different experiences. Um some of it may be personality driven too like questions that people don't have answers to. >> Mhm. >> Uh a response to a tactical question is very straightforward but asking and trying to answer a strategic question that's to me that's where all the fun is. Um so most likely when asked those type of questions my initial response is I don't have any idea and you know often times that's the most honest response. So you know doing strategy or advising or being a strategist that's just a sort of a process of finding something out. Sometimes that's done independently to inform the direction of a leader. That's where the advisory role comes in. And sometimes it's done with a group in order to solve a problem. probably is where I end up putting my uh putting my strategist hat on more often than not. But and really the other part of it too is just sheer luck. Met a brilliant NASA program manager in my field uh who said that they wanted me to work with them and and I started doing it about seven years ago. >> Wasn't it's strange. Not in a prior to I was in the federal government for about 9 years working on similar projects across uh governmentwide policy dealing specifically with uh IT and procurement. Um was a Peacecore volunteer in the past undergraduate degree in literature and philosophy. you know, all of these things sort of built up to be in the in the position that I've been in the last seven years serving a leader and serving a program over here. It wasn't a and it's a strange position to be in. Um, you're when you're a strategist or adviser, you're not in a position to make decisions. You're not in a position to make management decisions or leadership decisions or organizational decisions. um you're not in a position as an employee per se. Um your your your your job as a strategist and an adviser is to help leadership. Uh in my case, it was helping leadership prepare for some transitions that the organization would fa would face and it was really just a role that I ended up growing into. And was there a defining moment when you realized strategy was where you could create the most value? I I think this has as much to do with my leadership as it does with me. Um I think my leadership saw this as a needed role and and uh sort of chose me to to fill it. Um so to be fair, we were we were peers within the federal government. We weren't equals. The program that I led is much smaller in comparison to what the program is over here at NASA. Um but they they obviously saw something in me that they that they thought that they needed and I read a lot. I write a lot. Um I provide analysis they don't they don't have. I offer options and considerations based on what I see u outside the the program. I think that was one of the main features of why I was asked to come in is I did have a I had a view on the outside and and the program was successful because of the it was fairly insular up until a certain point in time uh focused on what they were doing for their customers. They didn't spend a lot of time looking on the outside as they were addressing customer needs. And so they thought that they needed that outside view. they brought me in uh and through the course of time I sort of grew into the role that I did. So all the credit to be quite honest with you is is is what the people that I've worked with and and the program that I've worked with and what they've asked of me over over the course of time >> and looking back what decisions had the biggest impact on your professional growth? Well, the smartest decision I ever made was asking my wife for her hand in marriage. The the best decision I ever made was was having children. I think the luckiest or most impactful decision on me professionally um was was to work with who I'm working with today. I not everybody can say that they've worked with NASA. >> Yeah. Um, and the person that I that I work with is is uh the best in her field. Um, and I've been fortunate to work with her for um, seven years now. I've learned from the best. I've worked with the best. She's absolutely brilliant. And so the dec I suppose the decision to to come over here and and uh work for this agency and specifically with this program uh without a doubt was the best decision, best professional decision. >> And how do you help organizations move from ideas to execution >> from an idea standpoint? It's often supplementary. Um they're the ones that have the idea. As a strategist, I'm there to help them either see something, identify something. Really, it's their ideas. It is not me coming up. That's the difference between a strategist and a consultant. A consultant will come in and tell you exactly what ideas that you've been thinking and well, here are the you at least that's the way that I that I separated in my mind. Um, but I'm not a consultant. I'm not there to push my agenda. I'm not there to push what I know. I'm there as a strategist to listen carefully, see what it is leadership is seeking and then either fill gaps or um help them achieve the the vision that they have whether it's for their organization or their or their program. Um you so the you know the the vision the mission w walking them through the the type of things that you would see in a strategic plan uh strategic planning is also a feature that I've been helping them out on a on a basis where I help help them with that not only ideiation but really I have to listen I have to capture that idea those ideas I have to bring those ideas back to them and then I have to find ways age for them to communicate those ideas um throughout their leadership in the organization and then uh and communicating those ideas often times is a two-way street. So you want to involve your organization when it comes to to to the strategy and ultimately help them set that north star so that the uh tactical and operational features of of the organization that you're working with are working to achieve that sort of common goal that that leadership uh whether it's the renewed purpose that common goal or the outcome that that leadership seeks within a strategy that can put forth that would hold true whether you're a government program or whether you're a technology company or or whether you're a standards body. Same thing would hold true with each. >> And when advising leaders, what's the most common challenge you see? There is no one common challenge to um well okay most common challenge is people now um and it's the most difficult job in any organization uh balancing what you're looking to do as a organization while also bringing people along with you as you do it is not is is is never is never easy. Um people aren't the challenge obviously, but the challenge ends up communicating communicating in a way that achieves what it is that that that that you're looking to achieve. And uh you have to communicate with different people in different ways. And and uh it's a it's a discipline that's as much art as it is science. There's no one common thing because no two leaders are in the same position. Uh no two organizations are in the same >> everything ends up being contextual in a way. So >> the common challenge from one new leader may not be uh you know the the challenge for another. >> Yeah. >> And one theme that comes up frequently among successful leaders is continuous learning. How has lifelong learning played a role in your career so far? >> Everything. Um, everything there. Going back to to you know what makes a strategy or a strategist. It's it's asking questions that don't have answers or having u questions that you need to investigate in order to find out. Um, it's that one personality trait that has led me on a path that I never expected to go on, including paths within the open group. >> Um, I had no idea about enterprise architecture, about, you know, the sort of supply chain standards that are out there or how they fit in with what the US government does within this. Did I came into none of that knowing anything and had to learn about it. um not in a way to master it but at least uh learn about it enough to be to to be uh cognizant of it and and to understand it. >> Mhm. >> So that I would be able to offer suggestions around it. I >> mean if you if you had me on video right now you'd see a library. I'm a reader. I'm a constant reader. I always have a book around me. I'm always, you know, whether it's fiction, non-fiction, it's my number one pastime, whenever I'm not working and it's the way that I feed my brain. That's great. And pivoting to mentorship, who are some of the mentors or influential figures who helped shape your career and mindset? >> Well, and mindset's different from career. Um early on as an undergraduate it was philosophy specific philosophy professor teaching informal logic and I enjoyed um moving on into my federal role. I've been I was really really fortunate to fall into a an organization and and with people who uh who who fed that insatiability that I had in terms of that and that curiosity of wanting to learn and needing to know. Um Connie Thomas was one of my early contracting branch chiefs who taught me um a boatload on government contracting. Um my federal peers across the federal government, whether it's at the Department of Homeland Security or Department of Justice or um then the Department of Defense, but these were all my teachers who were teaching me uh about technology, about security. Um and certainly Joanne uh Muaychek in the NASA program has also been teaching me about um leadership uh standards security. I've had more I've had more um but then there's there's other mentors as well though that you know so long as you're paying attention to people and uh seeing them for what and who they are and appreciating what it is that you're doing just about anybody can be a mentor. uh your your boss over there and Steve every time I attend an open group meeting. um you know it's I don't cognizantly pay attention to it but he's there to put on a a show and a production and provide information as well as hold people's attention and creating a a community and an environment um that is a that is a community in and of itself beyond the the standards work that the group of you >> that the group of you do. So, mentors are actually easy to find if you pay attention. >> And what specific lessons did they teach you? >> Um, well, my philosophy professor taught me the lesson of informal logic and logical fallacies. Um my colleagues and peers at the General Service Administration were the ones teaching me about um government contracting, the tactical nuts and bolts, policym, policy decision making, inter agency collaboration, how to get along with people, uh how to work with with with others in a way that advances their needs rather than advances your own. Certainly working with NASA and their program, I've learned more about um business rules, data, structure, leadership, vision. I mean, the the the lessons are the lessons are eternal. I think with experience, you figure out there's an expression down in Texas in the United States where, you know, somebody's all hat and no cattle. Um, in other words, they they they uh they talk the talk, but but uh do they actually uh walk the walk? Do they back up what it is that they say? I think over the course of time, you begin to uh more quickly identify what is what is uh real and and what is what is contrived. That helps you discern who you should listen to and who you shouldn't. Um but and more often than not is is somebody out there saying something that's truthful, something that's honest, >> something that's sincere, something that is uh something that's genuine. If you could pick up on on on people who say the truth, then those are certainly people that that uh that are worth listening to. >> Next, you've built a career around helping organizations and leaders succeed. What keeps you motivated? I have a very simple formula and it's one that I I fell on it but it's but it's the one that wakes me up every morning looking into the mirror and saying what am I going to do today? Um, purpose, goals, outcomes. Purpose, goals, outcomes. Purpose, goals, outcomes. That's really all that matters. Um, you know, what am I doing today? What am I looking to get done? How am I looking to do it? And what do I expect the results to be once I once I finish this or what are the outcomes that I hope to achieve? Purpose is the number one thing that keeps that keeps leaders going. The number one attribute I see in my leadership. Every leader who I meet works purposefully. the leader who I work for. Every single day, this this person, there's no such thing as a nine-to-five job, this person is is so engrossed with what it is that they're doing that it's difficult for them to turn their head off in order to do something else. She's one of the most purposeful people I know. Um, same same thing holds true with leaders in other areas that I see. Yeah, it's it's the purposefulness is which they they get up every morning and and sort of uh either solve problems or advance what they're looking to advance or attack the day. >> Mhm. >> So purpose keeps everyone motivated. When you have no purpose, then what are you going to do? >> How do you measure success today compared to earlier in your career? >> The difference between outputs and outcomes. Mhm. >> Um earlier in one's career, you you always want to show what it is that you're doing. Um later on your career, you you you show the effects of what it is that you I think that's yeah, that's the biggest measure of success. Again, purpose, goals, outcomes. Have you achieved your outcomes sought? Okay, that's that's that's the measure of success. Did you not achieve the outcome sought, but you ended up discovering something on the way? That could be another uh result of approaching things with a purpose, goal, and outcome. >> Nice. >> That's it's the ultimate measure of success in my mind. >> And moving on to one of your current projects. What inspired you to start the exchange podcast? >> I started actually began I've been conducting exchange since I've been working inside the federal government. An exchange is different than a transaction. a transaction often times or two one-way kind of conversations working inside of government. most valuable conversations were were the ones where uh they had much more interaction than a than a direction. Um when people were trying to either figure something out is really all that matters is the exchange and and sure the the commercial exchange but really inside of government the most valuable conversations were the ones between federal agencies because just like organizations different agencies find themselves in different conditions. They have different architectures. They have different ways of doing things. They have different missions. Um everything between federal agencies is is different. And that's something to be appreciated in a federated environment. um the the the structure and the mission of um choose any defense agency is going to be different than for example what the you know what what the function is that patent and trade office is supposed to do as an organization. Um, and I always found that the the platforms of communication between between people end up being the most valuable, more valuable than anything else. And information can be exchanged, but if not without conversation, there's no understanding. Then it just ends up being information. This is the way I operated when I was in government. And then I was fortunate enough to work through my program with certain um certain communities inside of government around the supply chain risk management field um who operated in the exact same way. These were folks in the civilian, defense, and national security communities who were bringing people together in order to exchange experiences around what they were doing as their own agencies and what they require of the commercial community in order to account for supply chain risk within their particular uh within their particular organizations. Mhm. >> And so that's uh so that that concept alone is is uh is is what started the exchange. Uh sure I've been sitting down and having excuse me. Sure. I've been sitting down and having conversations with people that I'm recording. I I I I don't necessarily wanted to call it a podcast yet. Uh in part because I'm still learning how to do it. But um I do enjoy sitting down with somebody having a conversation and then and then learning as a result of that conversation. I've just started doing that recently with um with with people in in the supply chain community and uh within national security community and within the federal government. Um and I just enjoy it. passion. I just enjoy having an exchange with somebody and uh where you both walk away going, "Huh, either that was fun, I learned something, I didn't think about that before, I didn't realize this. Uh geez, I want to look into that. I should read this book." You have an exchange, you have a conversation that sort of leads into that that curiosity of wanting to know more or wanting to learn or wanting to understand. I think that's the general premise around the exchanges. Now there's a there is a commercial aspect to what it is that we're doing as well. Um in in the exchange at least when it comes to the US federal government and industry I come from government. What matters more than anything is what agencies are doing in order to satisfy their mission and achieve uh their results achieve their outcomes fulfill their functions within the federal government. and uh and it's the seat that I always put myself in whenever I'm looking at the marketplace. And so I'm very interested in helping uh companies uh meet those needs of the federal government through the various mechanisms of of of exchange whether it's through uh the program that I work for at NASA um or whether it's through other programs whether it's department of war missile defense agency army general service administration there's a number of mechanisms out there all meant to uh all meant as tools to be used by agencies who are looking to achieve their mission and and meet their outcome and objectives and there's different different tools for use depending on different scenarios. So I help companies uh satisfy those needs. >> That's great. And for professionals looking to grow into leadership, strategy or advisory roles, what advice would you offer? Well, all three of those are three different things that are three different set of skills in my mind. Um, the one the one they're three different things. So, so the advice I would give around leadership may be different than the advice I would offer as a strategist or the advice I would offer in terms of advisory. Um the main thing with either well especially with advisory you already differentiated that from consulting um you're just there to provide options. You're there to offer a view into what it is that you see that they may not see. Um not only do that but offer them a solution to to uh or an whether it's a solution to a problem or approach to a situation that may be new or novel. they have they haven't seen before. Giving them options. Here's the way that I see it. You know, option number one, option number two, option number three are three different ways you can approach it. If there was an advice that I would give, I suggest option number two. These are the reasons why. However, it's up to the leadership in order to make those decisions because they may be seeing things that that others do not. Um, being a strategist is again a different set of skills. Uh and then and then being in leadership, you're again you're in the decision making uh you're in the decision you're in the decision-m business when you're in leadership. Um and leadership's a fascinating topic in and of itself. Very simply, a leader is just somebody who others follow. Um and that that can be done in a whole host of ways. Can be done with an iron fist. Uh it can be done with a teddy bear. But again, what's the optimal way for uh for that particular leader with that particular organization to advance what it is that they seek? Those are the uh those are the the the programs that a that a leader has to come up with that don't come from a textbook. >> Mhm. um but often times has to be drawn out and and brought to them. So um I guess the only piece of advice with all three would be just staying curious and not not believing that you know it all. Um because once you believe you know it all then you're not learning anymore or the lessons that you do learn when you think that you know uh know it all end up being hard lessons that you have to make. uh keeping an open mind and staying curious, asking questions, investigating answers. I think if you do those things either as a leader or strategist or adviser, you're probably tracking the right way. And though you've just mentioned it already to end this episode, what pause and although you've mentioned it already, what role does curiosity play in career development as this episode's final pause? That's a bit longwinded. I'm trying to say cuz we kind of touched that already actually. Um, okay. Right. I've got an idea. Resuming in three, two, one. And to end, how can they become more effective communicators and problem solvers? And you can also bring in curiosity to this question as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, again, leadership is is is more than anything a people business. And one thing I've learned over the course of time is you can communicate in in a certain way, but not everybody hears it the same way. Um, not everybody is in the same situation that you're in. Um, and so finding different ways to communicate the same idea. Uh, communicating the same idea over and over again until people understand. These are all these are these are all these are all the struggles of communication that that that that any leader has to uh has to has to contend with. Um am I heard? Am I and do people understand? Are people on board with with the direction that we that we're going in? Um that's a that that's um it's another feature of leadership that they just don't teach in a textbook. You have to learn by your mistakes. You have to be reflective enough to and self-aware enough to see how you are being received as well as perceived and then make those continual adjustments over time in order to you know it's very different to be a leader of a a team of 10 than it is to be a leader of a 10 or 10,000 and so um I think uh communication as you scale up only increases in importance as as you do. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and you you where does curiosity fit into that? Well, you know, if people are not uh either hearing you or going into your into into the direction that you know that you hope that they were going into, a good self-reflective leader will will ask themselves, well, why is that? I mean, is it something I'm saying? Is it something that I'm not saying? Can I phrase something differently? A bad leader will say, "Oh my god, these, you know, they just uh dickheaded and and and and they just don't get it." And they and they won't. So that self-curiosity, that self-reflection, that self-awareness. >> Yes. >> Those are some of the more difficult things for anyone, whether you're a leader or not, to >> to become um astute at or or or or to challenge yourself with in life. >> Yeah. Because the the mirror can be a pretty unforgiving mistress when you know if you look hard at it and but the best leaders out there are the ones that do take those hard looks in the mirror >> and makes those adjustments and communicates accordingly and yeah a achieves what it is that they seek. >> Mhm. And if listeners remember only one thing or many things from our conversation today about leadership, learning, strategy or personal growth, what would you want that takeaway or takeaways to be? >> Well, I think from a strategy p perspective because we focused on the strategic most um strategic being strategic and we didn't we didn't touch upon this but let's close on this you know being strategic is about taking action um a lot of I do meet a lot of people who like to be strategic in terms of strategery sitting out back whiteboarding but unless you're taking action uh all it is is really a paper process um all it is is an I is is an idea or even worse it's just an intention. Um being strategic is about action. It's about synthesizing information, broad information. Um it's it's a whole mindset of a and participating in sort of a culture of curiosity. It's really you're gathering experiences to identify patterns and connect dots in novel ways. That's essentially what is strategist is meant to do. >> Looking in the environment, listening to customers, suppliers, partners, >> employees, understanding their challenges, >> and then bringing all of that information together in a in a way that uh can be packaged for either a leadership or an organization to take take action. That's the essence of uh strategy and that's the essence of being strategic. So, I hope that's the number one takeaway. That's great. And thank you so much for joining us today on the Open Comments podcast and sharing your journey, insights, and lessons learned. And for our listeners out there, be sure to check out the Exchange podcast. We'll put the link in the description. And if our listeners would like to learn more about you, John, where can they go? >> LinkedIn always works. Um, type in John Johnson. That's an easy way to go. You can go to the exchange.te tech if you're interested in what um and what we happen to be doing. Uh this is a startup. The exchange is a startup. The exch the podcast that you mentioned is a startup. So, um, this is all something that we're doing for, uh, for fun, uh, in order to to to make an impact in in the marketplace and really to advance, uh, really to advance what what is sought in public administration is is is what it comes down to. And I'd be I'd be ne um negligent though not to uh to thank you Ash for inviting me on. as importantly um and more importantly to to thank NASA >> to thank the NASA SU program who I serve to thank Joanne Muetch who's been the 49year career federal employee and um 30-year uh steward of of uh this mechanism that that the federal government has relied on in order to meet their IT product and service needs. Uh just grateful to them and uh very very grateful to you as well as as well as the open group. You guys taught me a lot. You still are. Thank you and thanks so much to our listeners for tuning into this episode. We hope you enjoyed it as much as we have and we look forward to bringing more topics into the fold just like this one to you very soon. Thank you. Stay safe and happy listening.