Onyx Interview

I'll stand up really quick. Hi everybody. Thank you for welcoming me to Onyx 30th anniversary. I am Doug O'Keefe. I'm now from Palm Springs, California, but I'm originally from here. and I am so honored to be here to be able to conduct this fireside chat with the founders of Onyx. So, thank you. [applause] What I'd like to do first of all before I do anything else for the international audience, please tell us who you are, where you're from. >> My name is Wes Gibson. I'm originally from Chicago. I now live in Brooklyn, New York. >> Okay. I'm Daddy Steve, also known as matching man. My government name is Steve Bis. I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. >> And my name is Nate Green. Uh, I'm a native of Chicago, born and raised, North Side Man. >> Good afternoon. I'm David McKe. I'm also originally a native of Chicago. was born and raised here. Live in Oakland, California now and originally from the west side of Chicago. >> West side and I'm native of New Jersey and residing here in Chicago. >> All right. Well, from all over the place, I'm going to start off just sort of generally right now asking how did this begin? Who wants to take that whole battle? >> Go for it. >> So, each of us had our own vision and the way that this started, but um I think it's safe to say that this was conversation that Mufasa and I had at the um manhole manhole. >> We were both dancing at an underwear party. I think we both had an armband. I remember Kevin was wearing a New York Yankees hat. So, always loved my New Yorker. So I went over and I'm like you want to dance? So we enjoyed it uh that night and then we started talking about the fact that we were think the only two men of color in the bar at night and would it have been great to have a space that we could come together and support each other and enjoy our kinks and fetishes. So that's my memory of it. >> That was a good memory. And we then started going to dances um traveling to uh LLC, not LLC but leather mal and we traveled to other or other conferences and we love to dance and so we went to the dances primarily. We met some folks from Icon Detroit. >> It's a good club and we loved them and they had a club in Detroit and we started going to Detroit to hang out with them and go to their events and came back and said why not we we'll join a club in Chicago. >> We looked at all 15 clubs. They didn't look like us. they didn't dance and and we decided or we said, "Well, why don't we start why don't we look at starting a club here?" Um, we then I didn't know I knew Wes and invited him to come and talk and David knew Nate and Steve and invited him and we came to my house, sat down and I pitched the idea. Um, I'm a member of Alpha by Alpha. So I kind of had a five six and so I had a an idea of brotherhood. I had an idea of brotherhood and what it may look like. And the idea for me was a place for men of color to grow and to be together and to be a bridge into the leather community, the general leather community. because you guys were in the community but on the fringes of the community for years. But what does it look like for us to actually be integral in the leather community as men of color and a place for us to grow and talk about the issues that were gerine to us pitched it. They said yes >> let's do this. Thank you. But >> but >> but we also had the conversation of actually looking at a club that was exclusively for black men and we were looking for or we were looking towards the future. We did not anticipate us getting to a 30-year anniversary. But I take my hat off to my honored brothers. And this [applause] this was this was the middle of the beginning of something fabulous. And we're growing and we're going to continue to grow. We have 13 chapters. We're concentrating on the 14th chapter and it's going to be 15, 16, 17. [applause] >> This is my vision and this is my brother's visions as well. This is what I remember. >> I remember all the people who said it couldn't be done, that you will fail, you will not last. And my first commitment to this group was to make sure that they were wrong and that everyone who said we couldn't do this a lot. [applause] The um we also made friends in the community. Thank you to Icon Detroit. Thank you to uh Trident City who actually lent us their eyeliner place where you can just put it in some site whatever and change it. So my brother typed it by hand note by note word for word. We made a few changes in terms of our structure because we decided we were going to have a full brothers full associates and we don't have full associates and associates and we wanted to make sure that there was always a way for brothers outside of Chicago to be members who could wear the big patch and because only associates could wear the little patch and we had our full associates wearing the big patch. So when we were all together at things like IML or MAL, they were our full brothers too. And we always wanted to make sure that that's really when we started talking about how do we have other chapters. We envisioned that these four brothers when we had five or six of them in one place, they too could become a chapter. >> And the kept the clamoring started coming from those people in the southeast. Oh my god. >> They started to grow. Uh, one of my sons was leading the charge there with my other son who's leading the charge there. He relocated from New York to uh, Atlanta. And there was another son in New York who started the charge there. And, um, Jamal and Doc. Um, and uh, it just kind of they were kind of gnawing at us to try to figure this thing out. >> And we struggled with that, too, cuz we thought, well, what are we going to do? franchises? >> No, that won't work. And we looked at other leather clubs who had multiple, you know, brotherhoods, the command group, and a few other clubs had, you know, multiple things. But we wanted to make sure that when we started new chapters, number one, they did not fail. Number two was we wanted the mission to be consistent. We didn't want them to turn into a softball league. >> And so we had to make sure that no matter where you went, if it was an honest organization, it was still the same organization. >> So before we get too far because we're talking about the chapters, we want to go back. There's two great historical aspects because when we came together, we realized, well, we need to have some type of name. >> Yes. Yeah. And so, um, it sounds like it would have been easy, but I'm going to let Nate talk about that. >> Well, we had two names. Uh, the one that stands out to me is actually the name that we have now, and that employed a name that would carry weight. We wanted a name that would carry power. We wanted a name that would carry structure and that's what we have and that's what we all voted on and that's where we are today. >> I do not remember >> I don't remember the other name >> but I remember we fought about it which is really funny. take my name, but we voted as you do now. And onyx, which is the stone, which is imperishable, which is a dark non-porous stone. We felt that we could stand strong as an organization. Wes designed our logo. [applause] >> You remember all how you came up with? Well, you know, at the time I um I was in school for graphic design. I fancied myself a graphic designer and that this is by far the most substantial thing I ever created as a graphic designer. Um one of the things that we wanted to convey was uh uh being substantial and being significant and being um uh the equal of of of anything else. And um I did a I did a bunch of different designs. And I was actually surprised that they chose this one because it was the simplest one of of the ones I did, but I can see now that that simplicity is really what has made it so successful. And so, you know, um such a sort of um as I can see here, a sought-after symbol. So, uh you know, I really put my all into it. And sort of my entry point into Onyx and even into the leather community is a little different because I was in recovery. Um, and Onyx gave me an opportunity to do something that didn't involve drinking, >> you know, [cheering] [applause] it it changed the whole arc of my life, you know. I went from being a party boy, you know, to being someone who was part of a community, you know, it was really important. It was very uh it was very sustaining for me. So, that was that was my entry point. I just wanted to give a shout out to anybody from his recovery, you know. [applause] Um, hang in there. Yeah. And and the graphic, the the the design, um the beveled edge, the metallic look, the the the uh the substance of it was what I was trying to convey. >> And our colors honor the bylaws that we were given to borrow. Icon's colors are silver and black. Our colors are black and so >> so in in all of this we've been working on this and being all this coordinated. What doubts did you have? If any concern >> fear of failure fear of failure fear that if we built it they would not come. And you know, I look around this room and my heart is just so full, you know, because because you [applause] being here just made all this we had purpose >> and it means something to see your legacy live like this. >> Wow. >> So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you >> each and every one of you. >> Thank you. >> And I didn't cry first. [applause] >> I think that um when I do interviews now um about how we started, what what fears we had or concerns. I tell them that we really didn't have other than not having any anything money. >> Not a dime. >> Not a dime. Um I tell them that we really kind of just went forward and built our own table that we really didn't have I mean the fear of that they would not come but we had each other and I don't think anyone really stood in our way. If anything, we you know, if we stood in our own way of how we planned and how we did things and how how we got to where we are, but we asked for certain things from people in community and they said yes. We asked for the doors to cellblock to be open to us for bar nights. They said yes. We served Sunday dinner. We had chocolate cupcakes. We danced on Sunday afternoon. We asked IML for a dance. David is like, I get a DJ. Do you got a room for us? They said yes. >> And the dance is still going on. >> So we I tell everybody, stop banging your head up against the wall. People can watch you. And if you're trying to pull up a chair to their table, build your own table. [applause] >> But I listen I listen to my brother and he speaks of fear. We had great tenacity. We were each other's support and we were determined. We were going to make a good goal of it. Fear was on the back of our lives. Tenacity never >> on our tongue. >> Never on our tongue. >> Never on our tongue, but it was determination and now it's success. >> And to add to the community about this story, it was because individually, I mean, we probably had our own fears. As Kevin said, we got in our way. And when you think about that time, we didn't have any role model. So we were stepping off into this community that had been traditionally white. We think about the leather community and our fears always went away when we were together >> and I think each of us whatever those fears were we never they never blocked us when we were together. I mean it it is a real sense of empowerment in this honor. >> What do you feel was the greatest success of >> You're looking at it. >> [applause] >> We couldn't be we couldn't be who we are without others believing in the mission and the vision. We are a democratic organization. We vote on everything. And if it weren't for those that started the chapters and voted um to move forward and do the things and do the community service and work in their own community and that's what filled the chapters because we were doing things in Chicago and they started saying well we want to do the same thing in our communities because you guys are doing great work. We started, we were the ones who started giving to the minority AIDS organizations >> because the general levy community was not supporting the minority AIDS organizations. They were supporting the general AIDS organizations, but no one was giving to the minority organizations. We started giving to um foster care homes. We started giving to food pantries. Things that affect our people. That's what we're about. things that affect us so that we can keep living. We can stay in community. We can do those things. We didn't ignore the leather community. >> Right. Right. >> No, but we quit asking for permission. >> That's right. >> Right. Right. >> That [applause] was no longer permission than somebody else. >> We figured out that we could do stuff under our own authority. And I can do this. We can do this because that's who we are because we are >> and that's all the authority we need. >> All right. >> When when you're getting everybody assembled, I I can't help but ask, isn't there always a really good synthesis that gets a certain group of people together that gets things moving and going forward? How do you feel you achieve something like that among yourselves? Say that again. >> You know, like when when you when you organize a group, it's generally it comes to a certain synthesis where you've got the exact right people in the exact right situation and you're able to take it and go with it. How do you feel you achieved that among yourselves? >> Well, when I think back because I was the first treasurer, I mean, as Kevin mentioned, at certain point, we realized that if you have objectives, the goals, you have to have some money. And so we realized we needed a structure and um in our early days of just hosting a beer bus so that we could get community to acknowledge us. >> I remember that. >> Yeah. >> We were always just trying to make sure after a beer bus we balanced and had at least zero. >> We sold >> and not negative. So it was always you know at certain points you have to have some structure. >> We sold tickets in our league cuz I remember being the first treasurer. Were you the first? >> Yeah. And and and and he was the fledge master, but you know, neither one of us were really comfortable and happy with our roles and we had a conversation. Go, well, I that's that's what I do, but I'm not enjoying this [laughter] and and and go, I would rather do what you do. And so we just talked among ourselves and we swap roles >> and and and really because we didn't have any pledges yet and we didn't have any money yet. We had we had $2 on the back of an envelope >> and it's like I'll give you I'll give you this little ledger that's got $50 in it maybe and and and I'll go find us a pledge which was them >> incoming Jew >> someone we put an ad finally after a year we said we would open ourselves for membership general membership. >> Um, so the year was 1995. We opened for membership in January 1996. >> We put, what did you do back then? But put an ad in the back of Gay Chicago magazine. >> That's all we had. And so we put an ad in Gay Chicago magazine looking for members. and someone wrote wrote a letter to us requesting membership. That person was Bill. We said we would start meeting at Cellblock and he came to the first meeting. I wasn't there. I was on the road and you were there. >> Yeah. Bill walked into the bar that night and and said, you know, introduced himself and he says, "Well, are you interested in that?" He says, "Yes, I want to be a member." And he goes, "Well, let me tell you about the club." He said, "Just sign me up." >> He had no questions, no hesitations. I didn't have to answer any questions. I explained it. They go, "But wait a minute. I'm the pledge master. I'm supposed to tell you about this. I'm supposed to talk you into this." He goes, "I'm done. Sign me up. Where do I sign? It was task. It was it was the easiest task I ever had. I went, "Oh, this one will be easier." Everybody's like, >> dude, >> but he he was just so ready when he walked in the door. >> I think he paid his dues that night. You're right. >> Yeah, he was ready. He was ready day one. >> We met the next evening, February. I was there and we met and he had started to date another board member. [laughter] >> I didn't know that. >> I didn't know that either. You thought you all knew that? No, I didn't know this. >> I didn't know you knew that. >> You told me. >> But I will tell I will tell another part of the story that you probably don't know. >> And we had had a dance and we, you know, I wasn't wearing much but that little battle skirt. And we had all checked our coat. Well, everybody left and Bill left with my coat. And and it's like, well, I had to go home wearing nothing but a harness and a battle skirt, which is and and my kids were in the pocket of the coat. So, I had to go to my neighbor's house dressed like this and go, "Bing, bang, bang. Would you uh let me have my spare key to the apartment so I can get in the house?" But it was But but then I met for lunch the next day and he gave me my coat and my keys back and he asked me, "How serious are you? cuz I'm seeing somebody and I got to make a decision about who I'm going to see. >> And and he and he was ready to make a choice between us. And honestly, and I love Bill, but at that point in time, I said, I really like you, but I'm not ready for commitment if that's really what you're looking for. If you're looking for love, I'm I'm still trying to have a date. And and I said, you know, and I will not stand between you and my brother. >> So, and I wanted him to be happy and I wanted you to be happy and I was not going to be in the way. >> And of course, I was the gophet. Right. [laughter] >> Well, who knew that we had that much going on at once because we were all trying to get discreet, you know, you know, just tell, >> you know. >> So, as as things were coming together, as things were growing, people were moving in and out. Honestly, what concerns or doubts did you have about the success of Alex? >> I think still going back to being taken seriously that if this was our table that we didn't need to ask for permission, but you know, the bars, the the parties, everything we went to. I mean, the first party we had at IML, we weren't even sure people would show up. We thought and was pretty confident men of color would show up but weren't sure if anybody else would show up and take us seriously. But it was very successful. >> But we ran down to the lobby of the Congress Hotel and people who were in the lobby were like, "Hey, come upstairs and dance with us for a while." And we ran downstairs and got people brought them upstairs and they danced with us for a while. Then they went on to other things. But it didn't matter because we were dancing together. >> And thank you to David for coming up with the idea of the dance and >> house music all the time. >> House music all the time. >> This is Chicago. It's got to be house music. >> And brought our first DJ in until that DJ blew up in Europe and tried to outrageously charge us when he came back. So we switched DJs. Um [laughter] um but but again that tenacity if we don't we invite you but if you don't want to come we ain't going to force you to come. No, >> I remember email and and trying to have our brothers come together where we went down to the coffee shop and made these little handwritten Xerox invitations and we're passing them out in the lobby. Every time we saw a person of color, no matter who they were with, we handed them an invitation, said, "We just need to talk. Come up. We're going to have a little power ball." And so all the people of color here at MAL come up to our room. And we went down to the corner store and bought some beer and put it all in the tub with with all the ice we could carry. And we had every member, what you going to do? Go buy a 12-pack or six-ack of beer and throw it in the tub. And we all did that. And we did that for years and years and years. And believe it or not, they came and they came and they came and they're still coming >> until they had to put us in the party room at the Washington Plaza because we were there were too many people in the hallway and [clears throat] people running gauntlet and trying to get to their rooms cuz people would come in to get a beer >> and nobody was buying beer from them downstairs. They were giving it away upstairs, >> right? And we had our clipboard. That's what we had to do. They get addresses. I was at the typewriter typing newsletters when we got back. Yeah. >> Sending them out snail mail to people. >> And I think Dominion was one of the people who signed our clue board. >> He's that old that we have now. just bust in on the internet. >> So, I do have to ask something a little sort of a little bit on the personal side. How has being a board member, a founding father of YX benefited each of you? >> I'm gonna let you talk later. I think it's um for me it's opened doors in other places because we now have um a cadre. I entered IML in 1997. Um went into the contest circuit not knowing what I was doing. Um, we had just opened the doors of Onyx. Um, I ran for uh, Mr. Cellblock, finished first runner up. Ran for Mr. Chicago Leather, finished first runner up. Asked the brothers, would they sponsor me as Onyx Leatherman, and they said yes. So, I was in the contest. Um, finished first in interview. um coming out of the contest and then ninth on stage. Um but I think the visibility the first one of the first questions they asked me and I don't know if I shared this with you in the interview was what is onyx? >> What did you tell them? Um, I said we are a club for men of color in the leather community and we do great things in the community and we want to um bridge ourselves men of color and teach them about the community and bridge ourselves into the community. Um, and luckily there Mr. Marcus was the head judge back then and he wrote a column in San Francisco um, in the Bay Area Reporter. I think it was the the leather collar. We never had a disparaging word said about Onyx ever in the Leather Community College. [applause] Mr. Marcus was of of Latino descent and those that type those types of things opened doors started opening doors. We started to be asked to come and talk about men of color and leather. We started to be asked to come and teach. We started to be asked other people started to enter contests. Um we never we didn't have that before. >> No, we didn't. And so now I look at our cadre of teachers of title holders of people that are doing great things in community for themselves and in the name of honors. >> Yes. >> And in the name of people of color. And so I think our our our our staying power is there that we've rooted ourselves that we are a source actually we're one of the only sources [clears throat] as a community. So they look for Onyx. They know the name although they think every person of color is a per is a is a member of Onyx. So, we do get that, but the notoriety um and every person of color is not. But >> our thing was yet our thing was that you never had to join us. >> No, >> you didn't have to join us, but we want to make sure that you're educated. >> Right. Right. >> We want to make sure that you feel comfortable in community. >> Right. And we want to make sure that you build yourself in exploration, which are our our our words, you know, our our motto. But we know that people come and people go. >> Absolutely do. When we started, I felt like a unicorn cuz you'd go into another space and you would be the only dark man in the room and they'd look at you and go, >> "Who are you? What the hell are you doing here?" you know, and they sometimes that they would the bartender would even ignore you. You'd have to wave money at them to get a drink. >> And so, one of the things that for me is the beauty of this organization is that there's this safety in numbers and that people no longer do that. You don't have to walk into the bar and feel like you need permission. We walk into the bar with an Onyx patch and they like, "Hey, the the water's parked." and and you walk up to the bar and and you feel like you were honored. But the one thing that is beautiful about this is no longer feeling like I'm the odd man out or the only one like this. I used to think there were no more kinky D with dark people. Am I the only pervert in the world with dark [laughter] skin? >> You know how you feel so alone and like you're the only one. I realized I was not a unicorn. And that is to find out that there's a whole community of of people just like me just was just so fulfilling. And so thank you for that. >> Yes. Well, one thing I'd like to tell you [applause] about I relish being a part of an organization that has structure. And what really got me going was when Kevin started having forums. Forums just a form of teaching other people as well as teaching us about who we were about and that was a great thing for me. I really seen people coming in uh never people going out and so it was building and building and I was saying to myself my dream is coming true. This is our future and this is where we're going to go far. We were not into competition with anybody. We knew who we were and that's where we are today. We are You know, I started the people of color caucus at IML the year after the dance. Why did I start that? I started it so we could find each other at IML so that there was a place on Saturday that you could come to learn because we used to do a talk first and then we used to do demos >> because people had not seen men of color play with other men of color. And so we used to do demos after the talk and then hey let's go shopping. Hey let's have a meal. Hey the dance is tonight. Let's go together so that people could find each other. That still exists today. The people of color caucus is still going on. We don't have to do demos as as much as we did because we've seen people of color play with other people of color. But the talk is still need necessary. Um we have uh the suite at MAL. We started the hospitality suite at MAL and then IML. Why? So people could find each other. >> Yes. >> So they'd have a place at MAL amongst all of the people that are there to come home. Homecoming. to come home, to be there, to meet up with somebody, to find a potential playmate. And again, we don't care who you play with, but we care about you and your ability to be community. I just want to go back to the early days of Onyx and IML because when we started, a lot of the brothers didn't know much about IML. There weren't a lot of people of color at IML. So, one of the first things we did was we decided all of our brothers would volunteer at IML. And we wanted to make sure that we scattered ourselves all over IML so that no matter where you came, if you got if you walked in the front door, if you did registration, if you got on the bus, if you signed up for the contest, you had to go buy an Onyx man. You could not come to INL and not walk face to face with a man from Onyx. [applause] He was going to be all over IML and the only way to go to IML was pass an Onyx man. >> Bill loved riding the buses. >> Yeah. >> He was when they had the shuttles going up north and everywhere. He was Mr. Hospitality and he loved >> riding the buses. >> And so that you know we've stepped into places. >> Yeah. >> Thanks to Mama Pie cajoling us. We were the first organization to give an organizational brick to the leather archives. [applause] >> Thank you. >> We are the caretakers of the Joe Carter room. >> Yes. >> At the leather archives and museum. Our colors hang outside of the green room at the archives. So we are in community. We do and support the things that support us. And that's important for us to do. And we know that where we stand, we honor everyone that's in this room because you are a part of us in some way or another. Even if you're not a member, you're Alex and Jason. [laughter] You're family. We're we're running a little bit over time, but I've got two more questions I feel I need to ask these men. One of them is, what advice do you have for some of these people out in the hinterlands somewhere who want to become involved in the community? What can you say to them? You got the money. >> Well, what I would say is to build community and build relationships over time because they're very sustaining. Uh, one of the things that changed for me is I moved out of um Chicago um out of Illinois and eventually out of the country, you know. So, this to me is literally a homecoming. Um, and what I would want for you to do is to have those relationships that you can build. So you can talk about the memories that that we are talking about in the chapter that you're in. >> I would say that we are 30 years later still a work in progress. Exactly. >> We will never be finished. So I challenge each and every one of you because you need to leave here with a challenge and that's to take this organization as wonderful as it is because we're good now but we can be greater. And so I want you to find a way to make this organization stronger, larger, bigger, and better than it is today. And it will be tomorrow. And I would add, please just continue to be ambassadors. Don't feel like you don't have power. As long as you're either part of our Onyx community or you're just a friend of it, use as a reason to start reaching out. Um, I mean, we're definitely strength in numbers, >> mentorship, >> take somebody into your wing. Mentorship is important. >> It people are afraid. They're afraid because we come from backgrounds that have demonized us as pure freaks that people of color don't do that. It's a white thing. A lot of people of color do that. They just don't talk about it. And so mentorship is extremely important um that we mentor those. And again, we have members from age 21 to the early 80s. And that is a testament of community that we have elders that we have now have elders in the community. We have in our within Onyx, we have young people within Onyx. We have title holders in Onyx. We can mentor from within. >> We don't have to go outside. And that's the beauty of the organization that we all have built. >> The five founding members of honors [applause] >> [applause] [applause] >> Woo! >> [applause] >> As we're gathering, um just two quick announcements. One, um some people um have said that they have been feeling overwhelmed or would like a place to just take a moment and congregate. Uh we do have a hospitality suite there. There isn't alcohol in the suite, but um it's room 231. Just make sure you send a message in either Telegram or um on Facebook um to make sure that uh the suite is open. Um, in addition, there are some extra packages and so for if you know someone who would like to come to the dinner, um, we are selling tickets to the dinner for $50. Um, so if you know someone in the Chicago area who would like to come or someone who has not gotten their ticket, um, make sure that they go upstairs to registration to take care of that. Thank you everybody. [applause] Also, we are running behind time. We had Thank you for viewing inside leather history, a fireside chat. If you enjoyed the program, please visit our chats on the YouTube channel. Like and subscribe to Inside Leather History, a fireside chat for further stories from the leather community. >> [bell]