One Nation's David Farley on the migrants his party wants

From the conversation, this is politics with Michelle Graten. One Nation continues to dominate much of the federal political debate with strong polls and its leader Pauline Hansen speaking out on immigration, superanuation, and much besides. This comes as the party shapes up for its big tests in the Victorian November election. Four months ago at the Farah bi-election, One Nation won their first ever House of Representatives seat since the party was formed. The seat of Farah in southern New South Wales was previously held by either the Liberals or the Nationals and most recently before the bi-election by Susan Lee who resigned after she was rolled as Liberal leader. David Farley, a former chief executive of the Australia Agricultural Company, won the seat comfortably against a high-profile independent and well ahead of the Liberals and the Nationals. Farley delivered his maiden speech last week to the federal parliament focusing on the role of agriculture and giving a commitment to return productivity and capacity to Farah. David Farley joined the podcast to talk about his impressions of parliament and of his new colleagues as well as issues including immigration, artificial intelligence and teley health for voluntary assisted dying on which he voted with the teals. David Farley, you've had now quite a few weeks of the parliamentary sittings. How have you found things so far? And is it what you've expected and what's been challenging? >> Well, it's everything that I expected. First of all, I expected challenge both on uh challenge of learning parliamentary procedure, challenge on understanding the workings of the bureaucracy and then of course being um one of two lower house members inside one nation is um uh introducing and becoming effective within the party itself. So yeah, look there's been challenges. It's also been quite exciting. Uh the good thing that I can comfortably say is that for our mantra at the campaign which was to bring back productivity and capacity to Farah, I believe we're walking in the right directions. We've made good uh good steps. We're leaving footprints behind. Um and those footprints are accelerating now. >> Now, of course, your other half in parliament in the lower house, it's Barnaby Joyce. Have you found that he can give you some tips? He's a he's an first of all, he's an amazing guy. He's very genuine. He's very authentic. He's extremely experienced and of course he knows everyone and he knows his way around the house and the senate as well. So, um I haven't had you Barbe's been with me for probably a maximum now of uh 4 days out of that six weeks. Uh he went to Europe first of all after my first day and uh I had a lot of learning there quickly by myself. uh he's returned, but he he is uh he is a powerful mentor. He he's willing, not only willing to help me, but he's he and his team are willing to help my team. He is a valuable asset in Australian politics regardless of what part he's on. He is um he's authentic, he's genuine, and he's a true Australian. >> Now, One Nation is uh a different sort of party. uh we haven't seen its like I don't think uh in in Australia in recent times anyway. How have you found settling into that party? >> Yeah, you're definitely right, Michelle. It's a different party. It's a party of uh realism. It's a party of courage, political and personal courage and it's a party of tenacity. It's it focuses on the issues. U it doesn't have to report to anyone else. It reports to the constituency that it repres represents and it was the party that I selected because I could see the heavy lifting that's required to be done in Farah in particular. I'd watched the coalition work Farah for well over 25 years um in my lifetime. Uh I watched the Labour party's commitment to Farah and as you saw at the election was pretty shallow. They didn't run a candidate and I also realized that the size of the job it was beyond an independent. So I needed I needed um courage and tenacity uh and someone who was a party that was prepared to leave a footprint on Australia and One Nation's got all those attributes that I need. >> Now you say you selected One Nation but you did flirt with with others. >> Oh definitely definitely I had to I uh I spent first of all uh my political engagement in Australia started with the LMP in Queensland under a magnificent steward of that party was a guy called Bruce Mccyver. Very equitable man, very fair. When I finished my career at AAK, I returned and and I joined the Nationals in um New South Wales, the FC of Farah, and and I found that uh trying to get true engagement on the true issues to address policy that um uh it wasn't working. We were traveling big distances to meetings that would only run for 20 and 30 minutes and they'd be over predetermined. Uh and there I walked away from that party. I you know, they didn't want me and at the end of the day what I had to do, I didn't need them. >> And you did send out Labor. Oh, definitely, definitely. With the help of Joel Fitzkiens, actually Joel, I went to Joel with all the issues and he said, "Right, I'll introduce you to all the right people," which he did. Uh and when it really came down to prosecuting a case of what we needed in Farah, uh it became pretty obvious that um and this is after talking to the transport workers, the meat workers union, the United Workers Union, the whole lot and bringing a a case to the Farah leadership of labor as they said, look, the bottom line is the Greens at the moment, uh where our power is. It's in the Senate and all those issues, David, uh we would find it hard to prosecute those issues because we'd only be fighting the Greens. So literally what's happened is that the union movement in Farah or the union me representatives in Farah which has just been shown was what's happened to the rice grower employees have have become like secondhand girlfriends to the Labour party in preference to the Greens. >> Now Paul Hansen has uh counseledled to put it gently Malcolm Roberts over some of his uh fairly wild ideas and conspiracy theories. You've said things that are at odds with One Nation's line, not not conspiracy theories, but different policy positions. Has she at any stage called you up and said, "Don't say that." I think there was an occasion when someone called you up in the campaign. >> Well, there was through the campaign and of course um we're we're going through a campaign getting to know each other post the campaign. You know, first of all, um, One Nation is about democracy and and in in a democracy, you do have the right to be able to challenge each other and debate each other. Um, you know, we've had good debates uh over immigration in particular because immigration is very important to Farah right across from our age care through to our meat workers and our agricultural uh chains. Um and in there we've had to come to a position and I feel comfortable the position that I've been able to come to with immigration with the party itself that it doesn't put any threat with Farah at all. >> Just elaborate that what is your position and how do you read the party position? >> Well I read the party's position as first of all extremely sensible sensible to the extent that if we're going to grow the population we need to grow it with the infrastructure that that population needs. It needs housing. It needs education. needs health and it needs law enforcement. So we if we just can't open the door and uh be blind or deaf to the needs of servings serving society. So that's why I comfortably agree with the cap that One Nation's talking about >> which is 130,000. >> It's 135,000 right? >> It's 13 and that's the net overseas migration. >> That's the net net. Right now on top of that is our palm program which we use in our meat workers. On top of that is our age care skilled nurses, our medical skills as well. Now they're coming in on rotating visas that are there. Now they have the option to apply to become long-term citizens of the country which is that's when it refers you back to the net net number. But at the moment in regional Australia where >> that's the norm we're talking about. >> Yeah, that's the non. Yeah. So in a in regional Australia though how we sponsor these workers in uh first of all to get productivity and make sure they're well looked after accommodating them is important is very very important and making sure that they've got access to what services they need. So both industry itself our advocacy groups and our farming groups in particular make sure that they have got the infrastructure to meet the demands of the labor they require. Now, do you know what that would take the the figure up to above 130,000 >> uh coming in and out? Uh when I look right across Australia, it's probably circ another 40,000 a year on top of it. But that that's that 40,000's been there rotating year on year out now for probably two or three decades. >> So, do you now have a different position from Pauline Hansen on migration? When we spoke to you during the Farah campaign, there was a difference. >> Oh, there's definitely a difference. And what do I >> Where are you compared to >> right now where we are, we've been able to negotiate in the party. Uh Pauline's very respectful what's required of migration in agriculture and and more in particular very respectful of what's required of migration in Farah in particular. Those same questions that are reflecting Farah will be the same questions that will get contested on the northern side of Victoria at the coming election. Again, there's industry there that are are very very important on rotational migration labor. So, we what we've arrived at is a is a position. The net net number we agree 100% on. Yeah. >> Uh and then we're making sure that we've got the rotating migrants in our businesses especially the pal skilled nurses etc. >> That's your position? >> No, that's now the party's position as well. >> And do you have a different position to that? >> No, not at all. No, we we we matched our positions. We negotiated our position to arrive at it. right from even your early uh parliamentary career, you do seem basically to play your politics your way and I noticed that in that vote recently on telly health for voluntary assisted dying, you were with the teals with with the very small minority that voted against both the government and the opposition. Now, does that reflect doing things your way or how did how does that >> Well, first of all, you know, you don't go in and make that vote with it talking to your party and it's a conscience vote there. Um, I've lived uh in remote Australia, I've worked in remote Australia and experienced in remote Australia and I've been there when life expires on a lot of people. A lot of people that I've met and traveled with would adopt this option. Uh mainly because most people in the bush at least as they depart this world would like to depart with dignity and um unfortunately you know the end of life strips a lot of that dignity away from you and that dignity to access these type of services uh could be four or five days away on a mail truck. uh um it's not readably available and I think if Australia really wants to understand it they should go and watch that iconic movie last taxi to Darwin about the taxi driver in Alice Springs who drove himself to Darwin all the way through to uh uh explore and address voluntary voluntary dying. >> I want to return to another issue being put forward strongly by one nation and that is that there should be changes to the way superanuation can be used. What's your position on that? Do you think it should be preserved for retirement only, able to be used for housing, other things, or that we shouldn't have the present scheme at all? >> Well, I think first of all, the present scheme is good, and we should have the present scheme. It it is not flexible, agile, or elastic enough to meet the environment we live in today. The environment we live in today uh was was perfectly demonstrated last Friday night when 79 families sat around their kitchen tables in Leon and Griffith. Due to due to policy, they've been made redundant. Now, those 79 families would be young families. The majority of them would be young to middle-aged families. >> What industry would >> they were talking about the rice industry and the redundancies uh that they've just gone through. Uh they will be addressing their mortgages, their car payments, and their cost of living. They haven't got a job. It's highly unlikely they'll get a job in the towns that they they live. Uh that means there they'll be selling a house, moving house, etc. incurring more expense. U they structured in a way that they won't be um center link won't be of assistance to them at all. So what they'd be looking at? They'd be looking at their assets. They'll be looking at their superanuation and saying is this a point in our lives where we need to be able to access some of this? Then on the other side of it, there's people out there who are reaching a point where they definitely need uh medical assistance uh of some size and volume that won't fit into the public service scheme and they're saying if I want to have a better life, I've I've got to fix my back, my knee, my hip, my shoulder. Uh how can I finance this? >> Can't they access that at the moment? >> Well, they can they can they can access some of it, but it's it's a pretty rigid program and lengthy program to get about. But you know the reality Michelle is that the environment we live in today isn't the environment we establish superanuation under. Today the cost of living the inflation on cost of living is enormous and it's got no sign of uh abating. It's going to keep rolling on and rolling on uh and there therefore people are facing circumstances that uh they require elasticity in managing their balance sheet and on that balance sheet that they own is their superanuation. I'm not a proponent to say let's exhaust it all. Uh but I'm a proponent that says we must put the owner of that superanuation to meet their circumstances. And if they're in dire circumstances today, superanuation could be one of the best and quickest ways to to meet their demand. >> So one of your big campaign issues, maybe your biggest campaign issue was water. To what extent have you sought and to what extent have you you been able to obtain access to the relevant ministers to discuss this and do you think you can make any progress? >> Well, first of all, yes. Our campaign was based on our slogan through the campaign was to bring back productivity and capacity to Farah and what we talk about there is productivity is in our agricultural land and capacities in our secondary industries of logistics processing and just running communities that's health schools hospital law etc. What progress are we making? We're making good progress. My first question at question time to the parliament was directed directly to the Minister of Defense, Richard Miles. And that was focused on uh Minister, are you and your department engaged in the review of the 2007 Water Act? Are you and your department engaged in the review of the 2026 Murray Darling Basin Plan? And are you and your department engaged in the drafting of the Australian Food Security Document? Now I asked that question in particular because when you actually go over to the defense papers and their policies, water is in there quite clearly and at the moment um water has only had the envir the eyes and lens of the department of uh environment and water on it. My second question then was to the minister of crisis emergency management um Christy McBain. My question to her was, "Minister, have you been able to negotiate with the Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder uh a water allocation for drought and crisis to keep our food system alive?" Now, unfortunately, Minister McBain didn't get a chance to answer that. Minister Burke answered that question on her behalf and made it quite clear that water wasn't available. My third question to then was to again to the minister of um environment and water via the minister representing Burke was minister the projects that the comworth environmental water holder wanted to achieve in 26 are just about complete with the coming rains they will be complete. Would you could you ask the Commonwealth Environmental Water Holder to audit their position and any surplus water available from their program be immediately put back into the productive pool so farmers can either finish their winter crops or establish their summer crops. Um now that that got quite a response back from uh Tony Burke but what we have done now we've moved the needle that we've got instead of one lens on water we've got two departments with their lens on water. Our question this week to uh the minister again via minister Burke was trying to uh determine where was the equity in the decision of 2.5 billion uh dollar bailout for Tom tomico in the smelting industry when we had 79 families in Leon and Griffith um being made redundant on principally water policy when water was available the water the rivers were flooding the dams are filling uh and the government could have quickly uh credited the environment, the flood water and then credit the that offset credit to the to the uh to the dams and made that water available which would have negated those redundancies. And at the same time uh the in the regional reconstruction money, the $360 million uh rice growers in particular uh requested matching $15 million of grant funds from the government through the New South Wales government to build a $30 million plant. they were going to invest 15 million. The government, the state government rejected that. Uh and now rice growers looked like shifting that plant to Vietnam. So again, we've got opportunity in there. Now, good thing about that is I met with Minister Burke yesterday evening and then following that meeting uh at an event I was at, I met with the prime minister who was right across it. Uh I to answer your question, are we making progress? Yes, we're definitely making progress. We've got different eyes on it. We've got different lenses on it and we're actually demonstrating now that government policy in particular to union management and to families is being biased to one industry against the other. And I'm pretty sure that the Labor Party doesn't want that bias and I know uh we on the Conservative side of politics don't want that bias. So yes, we're making prejudice. >> In those sort of interactions like you described last night, what sort of a reception do you get? because obviously One Nation is being treated uh very much as the outsider by the the main parties. But at a personal level, how does the prime minister react to you? How does Minister Burke react to you? >> Um I found it very professional. I found it that we stay on topic of what I'm there for. I I have the ability to be very concise with my narrative, why I'm here, what I need to talk to you about, and they respond. I found no malice in it or um no aggression. More in particular when I'm talking about 79 families being disenfranchised out of their working life. When I talk about the bias that the smelting industry against the food industry, I get really good buy in. When I talk about agriculture and the environment, there's a bias probably from the Labor Party to the environment as opposed to commerce and agriculture. You know, it's just probably my perception of it. But the reality now is that uh policy is biting hard and it's disenfranchising regional Australians out of their jobs where they've got no hope of getting another job. >> Well, you say buy in, you mean buy in from the government, from those ministers. [snorts] >> Let's turn to AI. Now these data centers which are going up everywhere and going to be um spreading quite fast use a hell of a lot of water. What is your opinion of the centers and would you like to see them in Farah and are there any plans at the moment for them in Farah? Well, first of all, my opinion on the centers is if if we want to keep Australia a breast of uh technology and where the world is going, we need to engage in the development of sustainable uh data centers. We need to be very cognizant as we go into them of what is the demand of a data center. And there's two critical demands. Base load power is important. Not intermittent power, not solar power, not wind power. Base load power. And the second one is water. So what we need to be able to determine is very quickly and it can be done very quickly is how much water is required how much water is required and therefore how much electricity is required. Then where do we get that from? Do we disenfranchise the the great urban metroplex out of their water and out of their power? Or do we disenfranchise the food chain that feeds the metroplex out of its water and out of its power? The bottom line here is that the government needs to get in front of the curve. both sides and start planning the natural resource management. I sense that it's something that that both sides of government haven't focused on. You've got to have your lens on 2050 where the nation's going. You just can't have your lens on the next election cycle. >> So, what about Farah? >> Well, with Farah, uh if we can put the resources in place and manage the both the power and the water, we'd accept uh I would promote that we accept data centers in Farah. Now, just finally, the Victorian election is coming up within a pretty short time and it is seen as a big test for One Nation. How do you read that election and will you be campaigning in it? >> Uh, how do I read that election at the moment? I found it amazing that um here it was the polling in Victoria put One Nation in front even before candidates were announced. So, that was telling me that the constituency uh is looking for change. Um now that now the candidates are being are being announced um and the caliber of the candidates it it gives me um confidence that one nation has got their act together. I feel a lot of the issues that uh we campaigned in Farah especially across regional Victoria will be the same. Uh I think management of debt Victorian debt uh and infrastructure is going to be a massive issue. Uh what Victoria needs is the ability to uh design its operating budgets uh away from debt. Needs to put efficiency inside it and therefore it needs uh representation that's got tenacity and courage to do it. Uh and I believe One Nation the way they're structuring themselves running the campaign and selecting their candidates should perform extremely well in Victoria. >> David Farley, thank you very much for talking with us on the podcast today. That's all from uh us this week. Thank you to my producer Ben Roer. We'll be back with another interview soon, but goodbye for now. Production by Ben [music] Roer. Theme music by Lee Rosie. The conversation is a not for-p profofit media organization. Sign up to our daily newsletter for evidence-based news and analysis, including articles from Michelle Graten.