Nonprofit Finance Automation: Build a Smarter, Leaner Finance Team

[music] >> Hey, welcome back everybody. It's another episode of the Non-Profit Show. We are thrilled that you are here cuz we are going to be talking about the things that we all want. We want to be smaller, we want to be smarter, and we want to be more strategic. Maybe not all in those in that order, but we have Boolan Tran, one of our partners here from JMT Consulting, along with Brad Powell. Um, no, his name is not Bill, but he's from bill.com. We were teasing him in the green room. Um, you got to show us your your fabulous hat because it's got the logo on it, and everybody's he used to be Bill. Yeah. Everybody calls you Bill. >> Yes. >> [laughter] >> I love it. I think that's a hoot. Well, we are delighted that you're both here with us today. We're going to have a really great conversation about the finance team of the future, and I suspect it's going to be more than just the finance team of the future. It's going to be other teams within our organizations. You know, we are part of a team here because we have amazing partners, and they include Bloomerang, American Non-Profit Academy, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, Third Sector Company, JMT Consulting, and Intuit QuickBooks. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. I'm Julia C. Patrick, CEO of the American Non-Profit Academy. Uh, Brad, we already like talked about you being from bill.com. Talk to us about what bill.com does cuz I think people might think they know what you guys do, but unless you're using the product and the software, you might not really fully understand it. >> Yeah, certainly. Well, first and foremost, Julia, thank you for having me. Great to be with Boolan from JMT as well. Um, my name is Brad Powell. I'm Senior Alliance Partnerships Manager at Bill. I work really closely with uh Boolan and the great team at JMT Consulting. We serve a lot of non-profit clients uh together in terms of uh our softwares uh paired uh paired really nicely with one another. To answer your question Julia, Bill most people know of us as kind of the category creator in accounts payable automation. Our our founder and still CEO Rene Lacerte um developed this concept as a small business owner, a family member of several small businesses 20 years ago as a matter of fact. And uh first came to market with accounts payable automation, realized that there's expanded opportunities in back office finance staff that could benefit from further automation components. And so today, 20 years later, uh we Bill goes to market with what we call a financial operations platform. Um and so we help organizations streamline uh and automate processes that typically bog finance teams down across AP accounts payable, accounts receivable, and then in corporate credit card and expense management corporate credit card reconciliation. So that's kind of the the core um component three core components of the Bill platform. >> It's really important Bulan, isn't it? To have um software like this just and we were talking about this briefly in the green room, just for security sake, right? >> Absolutely. And I had mentioned that folks are getting smarter in terms of you know, penetrating you know, that shields and getting behind it and you know, and it's really important even though you might think that nothing is broken. It's not about you know, uh fixing things. This is being about being on a modern system that has the tool to protect the organizations from you know, have uh from you know, outside, right? And then having the right workflow in place to ensure and the security in place to ensure that you are safeguarding those funds. >> Yeah, it really important I think thing to level set. Um because it seems to me Berlin, you don't know you have a problem or even a potential problem until you have it. It's like one of those things with risk mitigation you're like who would you know, defraud a nonprofit? Well, guess what? A lot of people would. And so to have these protections in place are so critical. Um well, let's talk about this fascinating time that we're all living in that we have this incredible automation process and theory and and products. And it's really reshaping finance, the finance teams, the jobs. Um Brad, let's start with you. What are you seeing in this in this uh lens through this lens? >> Pardon me. >> [clears throat] >> Yeah, well we meet with uh clients across a myriad of different uh nonprofit organizations uh as well as uh for-profit companies here at Bill. There's similar themes um that that we're seeing um across any client that we work with. And we speak mainly with finance leaders. And often times what we're seeing is that dipping their toe into this AI world that we're living in um looking at simple tasks that they can tackle very easily utilizing that technology is kind of the first step at um like really learning how to adapt uh the technologies that's available to us. Uh and it's almost kind of like an expected norm >> Yeah. >> that we're seeing now where uh individuals who are joining and moving from one organization to the next who've started to have access to these sorts of tools, it's almost like expected that the next company that I move to is going to have those uh resources available to me and if I don't have them, it's almost like a uh a criteria that I uh uh utilize in my job interviews um to know like, "Hey, where is this organization in terms of its advancements in technology? Do I really want to work at this next organization if I don't have the tool sets that I'm accustomed to to make my job easier and make me better?" >> Wow, Boland, this is fascinating. It's become like a standard with which we expect, especially in the nonprofit sector, you know, are you good stewards of of our money or not, right? Is that fair to say? >> It is. And also, um what we're hearing is a lot of nonprofits are asking about, you know, what is AI doing um you know, within the application? How is AI helping, you know, improve their operations? How is AI and also about the security? Where you know, is my data going to be exposed? How secure is my data? Those are some of the questions that we hear as you know, nonprofits are evaluating, you know, how to improve and streamline their uh AP operations. Um you know, that those are those are the some of the questions that we're seeing. Um another another questions I think we we also get is um you know, obviously there's uh areas for improve improving the operations, but in a bigger picture as an organizations as a whole is how can uh the you know the solutions um uh help the non-finance people in terms of you know not having to go to the finance team for questions and being able to self-service you know the information they're looking for. And and I think that the with these AIs they're making it uh much easier for the non-technical uh non-finance people to you know get you know ask those questions in your normal English and be able to get that information themselves without the need to reach out to the you know the AP manager or the controller, you know, where whether a specific invoice has been paid or not or how much was spent in a particular categories or within uh within certain grant how much was spent. You know, these are some of the things that I think uh the technology has made it really you know much easier um and uh and and also as as the non-people non-finance people are using these systems they they're building confidence and uh and you know uh just getting that information readily available to them now. >> It's such an interesting aspect because we have so much change as uh but Boulin as you brought up um and it's it's really been in my mind in so many ways finance departments have worked the same for decades and decades and decades and then all of a sudden things are really changing. Um can you talk to us about what you're seeing across the landscape in terms of what that modern finance department is starting to look like uh because we're in a big time of change, right? We have a lot of um older CFOs, you know, controllers leaving, retiring, retiring out, aging out, and then we have young, educated college students that frankly are digitally native. I mean, they never worked off the hand ledgers, you know, the green line sheets. What are you seeing? >> Well, I I'm seeing that people are still learning uh about what uh AI is able to do and how is it helping them, you know, in the various departments. And we're talking about finance here, you know? Um, I think people are are are are learning. The other thing, you know, a couple of things. So, you know, obviously, you know, folks are, you know, hearing and reading, you know, a lot about AI. I mean, you hear AI every day as soon as you turn on the radio, right? You're in your car and you're hearing a you're hearing it uh um on NPR, right? >> Absolutely. >> that it's also, you know, uh when we talk about AI, it's also what industry you're talking about. So, you know, the nonprofit versus the for-profit world, it's a bit difference in terms of how quickly AI is being leveraged, right? And a lot of I think that the nonprofits, I think, you know, are starting to, you know, look at what's out there and learning what's out there and thinking about, you know, how how is this going to help me at the end of the day? >> Right. Brad, what are you seeing because you're a tech-first forward company. Um, has adoption like moved quickly or is it still lagging? And and I realize that in the nonprofit sector, we're notorious for slow. But, I mean, what are you seeing in terms of these modern departments? >> Well, to one of your earlier points, uh it's it's odd uh that you mentioned it. I was actually just at a a recent uh industry conference uh a couple weeks ago and uh as follow-up to the discussion that I had with a controller from this organization, uh he had referenced that the CFO will be retiring out at the end of this calendar year and he while respects CFO and has learned a lot from him is all almost kind of excited that he'll be retiring because he's uh um kind of that generational uh age where he realizes that there's better, faster, more efficient tool sets available that could make their organization more lean and effective. Um so, uh it's just odd that you made that comment not even realizing that I just had that conversation 2 weeks ago live in person. Um and then also, I have a believe it or not a daughter who's a ca- uh senior year in college and she's in her business program uh uh in entering her the accounting coursework that uh she'll be taking this fall and a lot of the prep work that I saw on her prospectus that she shared with me is talking about the technology tool sets that are that they'll be learning through in their coursework. Um yes, of course, all the general accounting fundamental principles, but incorporating technology into the way that they're learning accounting. Um so, I [clears throat] think I always had this uh worry that uh if she wanted to go down this finance track in her uh uh in her business program, that what sort of job opportunities are going to be available for her with all of this AI adoption that organizations are starting to uh to tackle. But, since she'll be entering the workforce probably even faster than I'm able to absorb it because it uh even though I work for a tech company, I'm not always like using our AI in our product. Um Uh so, she's I feel like going to learn faster than even I am working for a tech company. >> Yeah. Oh, undoubtedly. I I got to believe that. Um well, good for her because we need more people taking those finance tracks in higher education. We have too many people retiring and not enough coming in. So, yay team. And uh it Yeah, I know so many people that would like to latch on to someone like that. I know bool and tron you need [laughter] to. So, let's talk about that because a little bit deeper because it this also involves a leadership issue. I was working with an a very large nonprofit um recently and their CFO after 32 years retired. And they brought up one of their uh women that was in their group. Young gal, smart. And the other senior leaders were talking to me um shocked at how much faster things were going because she was young, she could lean into technology. She was just lightning speed and whip smart with what the tools were. And so, she's brought in all these additional digital tools and the rest of the team has been shocked cuz they're like, "Oh my gosh. It's actually better. We can get faster. We can We feel more confident that the numbers are right and that the data is right. It was riveting to have this conversation because it put into play what we've been talking about, right? On the nonprofit show. So, how as a leader do you get behind these changes? I mean, Boland, do you like encourage these older, you know, financial leaders to retire faster [clears throat] or more quickly? Like, what do you do to get leadership so that they are embracing this technology more quickly? >> Yeah, so change is hard. It really is. I I've spoken to some CFO where they've actually waited until certain members retire before rolling out new system because they couldn't they could see the pushback that they'll have, you know, with the change. But I think that it's important to come up with a a change management plan. Meaning that you have a plan whereby, you know, you know who are your supporters, right? And get those behind your, you know, get those train those folks first and get them on your side and help you promote the new technology, right? That's that's a method of helping roll out the new system. I and I've always I've always said that, you know, if you're putting in a financial systems, you know, getting your own team to adapt is much easier than getting the rest of, you know, 200 people or 300, how many, you know, however large that organization is, the rest of the people who are non finance or non, you know, technology savvy to to adapt. And and everyone wants to do the, you know, what they've been familiar with even if it's not great. >> Yeah, it's true though. I mean, Brad, you must see that in that even though you have a company that is it really led the charge on this concept, it's still got to be hard for some organizations to fully lean in. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think finance leaders often times um could benefit from making a pivot in thought process around what am I doing to set my organization up for future success. >> Mhm. >> Um the pressures that they're living in on a day-to-day basis in the numbers, looking at the finances, um uh worrying about obviously their people, um uh the pressures around access to funding, like there's a lot that weighs a finance leader down, but um thinking about all right, I'm not going to be here forever. What am I going to do to ensure the the longevity of the mission of my organization after I leave, and I can't always rely on like tribal knowledge or the way that we've always done things continuing to work. Um back to the I think the theme of how you open this up. Um smarter, smaller, um I think were the a couple of the key takeaways. Um Yeah, uh to throw bodies at problems isn't necessary necessarily the best way to go about it, or you can't throw additional bodies at the problems. So, putting a tool set in place to help you manage what you have with existing personnel, but then also prepare for like tomorrow, right? >> It's it's an interesting thing it seems to me I'm listening to you talk, Brad, and I'm thinking that, you know, the finance team can really become a leader for other teams uh maybe to make changes. And And I'm wondering if you've seen that that maybe organizational change starts with the the finance department in some form or fashion and then gives the confidence to to make other changes across the organization. >> Yeah. Uh I think that's really true. Um I mean, purchasing any software application ultimately most often will need a finance leader sign off on it. >> Yeah, [laughter] good point. Good point. Very good point. Yeah. >> Whether it's specifically a financial software product or it's another related product to help the organization. Uh but I do feel like they're becoming like this um uh a finance technology uh innovator within an organization uh even if that product doesn't necessarily benefit directly the finance staff. Um they're the keeper of the purse strings and they understand how those other accessorial software applications are going to impact the business as a whole. So, finance seems to be leading the charge for most technology purchases or certainly heavily involved. >> Well, then, you know, JMT does a lot of different forms of consulting. It's obviously in your name. You started out um Jackie Tezo, you know, as as in the finance world. Um now 30 years in, are you finding that your own team to Brad's comments are also having to explain about other types of software? Like, you guys you should be using Calendly or you should be using X or Y, right? Are you having to like bleed out into other areas of software? >> Well, we're always looking. Uh, I think it's really important as we're working with nonprofit to provide that technology insight in terms of what's out there and how technology can improve their operations. That's something, you know, we're not you know, we're not the publisher, right? We're we're a technology. So, you know, the advantage of that is that we're independent. And and we, you know, you know, many of my most of the folks at JMT have very deep experience when it comes to the nonprofit finance operation, right? And so, being staying on top of that and providing, you know, independent um, um, being providing independent consulting information to our to the to our clients and and to the nonprofit, you know, the the the broader nonprofit sector is something that is important to us and something that we do. Um, I also think that for many nonprofits, the you know, the CFOs, their roles have changed slightly over the years, you know, as these technology emerge. It's really, you know, they you know, they need to be on top of what is out there and how these solutions can improve their operations. This is, you know, not just depending on the what the consultant is saying. They have to also do their own research and may you know, and and be on top of that as well. And and that's how you stay That's how you're able to help the organizations also to manage the cost cuz you know, and that you know, with these technology providing that accuracy, that safeguard, and then managing the cost of that as well. >> You know, you mentioned in the green room that you've recently partnered with one of our other sponsors. I don't know if that's public knowledge or not, but it seems to me if that is public and you want to talk about it, it's the perfect example of aligning your yourselves with a product that overtly wouldn't look like it's a financial tool, but in essence it is. >> Yes, and I'm very excited about our partnership with >> [laughter] >> I'm going to say it. And I the reason I'm excited is that you know, you hear yeah, I hear this often where the finance and the development team they're separate teams, you know, and and they don't really like work together, but it's so important to work together because the the development team they do need to know where the numbers are, right? As they're working with donors and and and you know, in my my feeling is everyone in nonprofit is response has some responsibility of fundraising in some sort of level, right? Directly or indirectly. And and so it you get a lot more synergy when you have that collaboration. And you know, and you know, we're we work primarily on the finance side, but you know, we serve the same you know, sector as I mentioned, the nonprofit sector, and so you know, learning more about these other platforms and how we can collaborate and build that synergy, I think it's it's important. >> It's really huge. Brad, it's interesting because um I was thinking while Wulan was speaking about how often times somebody who's not involved in finance gets asked, "Hey, we didn't get paid. Can you find out where this check went?" Or you know, and so it's looping back in a product like yours with a group that doesn't have anything to do with it, right? But benefits from it. >> Yeah, most certainly. Uh when you when you utilize a platform like Bill, well, first and foremost, we're not going to be like your system of truth from a like a an official financial reporting standpoint. That's your core accounting system. But kind of a a favorite accessory, let's call it that, to the core accounting platform. Uh but at your fingertips, clients can have access to when you utilize a platform like Bill, um like a single source of truth data point for any and all things AP AR, expense management, run a simple prompt with uh you know, an AI agent from within the platform and go search up that invoice from 5 years ago that an auditor might be asking for uh instead of going through a filing cabinet that um you know, is folders and folders deep, right? >> Yeah. >> Um so, yeah, real-time visibility and access to uh key financial data that's touches any of those three components, AP AR or spend and expense. >> Yeah, amazing. Julia, I'd like to um put a plug into a Bill a little bit because we do work with Bill. Uh they're, you know, a partner with JMT and um and you know, we're also a Sage Intacct partner as well. And one of the comments that I would like to make is the how strong that integration is you know, that Bill has with with Sage Intacct and it's a uh bi-directional integration and so which is great. I mean, it it shows that how these systems can talk to each other and work functionally as one system even though they're they're not, but you know, it's really focused more on like the best in class, you know, the best in class of what Bill does is really the AP automations which is whereas with Sage Intacct, it's more on the accounting the core accounting function, but together, right? It is as if they were one system with these, you know, these strong integrations that these systems have. >> I love I love that you brought that up and thank you for sharing that because I think it's some something that a lot of times to the uninitiated, you think, okay, I'm going to buy one product, go through the hell of changing it over and then everything's good. And and not understanding that and wow, Brad, I've never heard anyone say this accessory. I love that you used that word. That the software can be an accessory to how you're working and and and being more efficient. You both have been great today. I really really enjoyed this conversation. I've had the pleasure of welcoming Brad Powell. He's a senior alliance partnerships manager over at Bill bill.com. And Boolin Tran, of course, you probably have recognized her. She's a senior vice president of financial solutions at JMT Consulting and she pops in once in a while and we're always delighted to have her with us to talk through some of these really tough topics that I think get people a little freaked out. Um but you got to address it. You got to lean into it. And I think Buelin, what you said, it's an exciting time for for all of us in finance cuz finance teams are changing and they're they're there's more opportunity. Brad's daughter, perfect example, you know, leaning into that. That's been really cool. Thank you both for joining us. >> Thank you, Julia, for having us. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> It's been a lot of fun. You know, we get to do this program each and every day because we have amazing partners. And JMT Consulting is one of our partners along with Bloomerang, American Non-Profit Academy, Staffing Boutique, Third Sector Company, Your Part-Time Controller, and Intuit QuickBooks. These are the folks that stand with us day in and day out as we work to make the non-profit world smarter and better and more efficient. As we leave you today, we leave with this message and we say it every day and it goes like this, to stay well so you can do well. We'll see you again. >> [music]