Next Time You Make A Mistake Remember This | George Mumford on Impact Theory

You got to get comfortable being uncomfortable. So, can you handle the truth? It's a question and if you can't, then you if you see that, then you can say, "Well, if if I'm going to change, I'm going to have to figure out how to deal with that discomfort until the point that I can see what I need to see, then I can change it." So, it's the persistence of continuing to do something until you can do it. Is is is most of the work. Is is just continuing to make mistakes, learn from mistakes, but the mistakes are viewed as feedback. Not as I'm a failure. It's it's just an event, not who we are. So, that error correction is really important. And when you can see when you attribute it to something you can learn or change, now you got faith and confidence to do it versus if you're seeing it like, "Oh, I'm just not strong enough. I'm not tall enough." and all of that. That's just that's what I call a negative committee telling you you can't do anything rather than saying, "Well, let me see what can I what I can do." So, it's like a child learning how to walk. Right? Same thing. Hey everybody, welcome to Impact Theory. Our goal with this show and company is to introduce you to the people and ideas that will help you actually execute on your dreams. All right, today's guest is arguably the most effective sports psychologist on the planet. With a master's degree in counseling psychology, he has taught mindfulness and performance to everyone from prison inmates to corporate executives and some of the most extraordinary athletes the world has ever seen, including Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, and Shaquille O'Neal. Known as Phil Jackson's secret weapon, he was brought in to help elevate the legendary Chicago Bulls and Los Angeles Lakers, and he did just that, helping those teams reach a legacy-defining run of eight championships. Jordan himself credits him with transforming his on-court leadership of the Bulls, and Phil Jackson has said, "Time after time, team after team, I've seen athletes transform and I've seen championships saved by players who believed in this man's one-mind, one-breath efforts." His ability to transform others becomes easier to understand when you realize he first had to transform himself. After spending much of his 20s addicted to alcohol and heroin, he learned the art of self-mastery from the inside out, and he's remained sober for more than 30 years, a testament to the efficacy of his methods. There is no one and no situation that is beyond benefiting from his unique and transformative approach, and that's why today he is one of the most sought-after speakers and performance experts around. So, please, help me in welcoming the author of The Mindful Athlete, George Mumford. I'm good. Good. Great to be here. Dude, it is so good to have you here. I read your book, God, a couple years ago now, and was really, really impressed with the transformation that you went through as much as the change that you've helped other people make. And what I want to know is, how do you make massive change in yourself, and how do you make it stick? I talk about this idea of having a sense of urgency. I call it the AOF method of motivation, which is ass on fire. So, it wasn't because I decided to be cool or that I was going to be intellectual, it was because of a sense of urgency that I started learning about who am I and why am I here, and can can I connect with the masterpiece that's already inside of me? Mhm. Can we create and cultivate the ass on fire notion? Like, can we build urgency into our lives? Can we build urgency in our lives? Yes, we can. It's for me just thinking about my own experience, first it was, you know, AOF motivation, and then it was a commitment to excellence. Mhm. So, when people ask me, "Well, what what game am I playing?" I'm pursuing excellence and wisdom with grace and ease. And so, it's really about the want to and me deciding or or taking responsibility. I have a masterpiece. All I have to do is chip away to to let it express itself. And that instead of going because of the sense of urgency, I can go for the joy of discovery. That's really interesting, and I've heard you talk a lot about Buddhism, and I know that you lived in a um oh god, you a meditation center? Right. So, you lived in a meditation center for 6 years. Right. I'm guessing you studied Buddhist philosophy pretty um intensely. Yes. And you've said that instead of being original sin, that there's the original blessing. Is that what you call it? Yes, original blessing. Talk to me about that. What is that? And what do you mean? So, that that means that we start off with a masterpiece. And we start off with the basic goodness, but it's like that still small voice inside, it's it's still and small, it can easily be drowned out. And the idea is to be still and know, as it says in the Bible, and to realize that that we were wired for success, but it's how we relate to our experience that determines whether we're we're chipping away or we're, you know, kind of burying that sense of of wholeness that we that we're born with. It's just that we we we forget it. We don't look inside, we're looking outside. And so, unless we're still and we think about it and we understand that I was born with this masterpiece. There's no one who can give it to me or take it away. It's It's an inside job. And so, if I look at what's right, it's it makes makes a lot of sense. So, it's whether you're coming from a place of scarcity or I would say survival mode or coming from growth mode, which has to do with the yes, I can, yes to life, and I I have the capacity and the responsibility to make it different or to make it make it better. And so, that's Yeah, so that's the basic premises. We have masterpieces. And so, when I go into work with folks, whether they're Hall of Fame coaches like Phil Jackson or or just uh everyday athletes or weekend warriors, I'm not going in trying to fix them. I'm relating to their masterpiece. That's really interesting, and I want to talk about that. It's really powerful coming from somebody who struggled pretty profoundly. The story that you told about the needle breaking off in your arm, and you had to tie your arm off to keep the needle from going into your heart. I just thought, "Whoa, this is somebody who really had to figure things out, really climb out of a hole." So, in that, how did you not just kick the out of yourself for allowing yourself to become addicted? What was that process like for you of of moving away from sort of self-punishment into recognizing that masterpiece that was still inside of you? So, when I realized it that I could beat myself up or I could love myself and forgive myself like continual forgiveness, and that I could differentiate between the ego, and I'm not saying the ego is is evil, it's ignorant. You know, so it's like, you know, we have the brain, so it's it's like the reptilian brain, which only knows fight, flee, fight for food, and reproduce. That's all it knows. So, but then we have the middle brain, and we have the cerebral cortex. So, when I can engage cerebral cortex by creating space between stimulus and response and and and exercise of my freedom of choice. I'm choosing to live a principle centered life that talks about basic goodness, love thy neighbor, love yourself, uh forgiveness, uh compassion, those sorts of positive mind states. Now, that's a totally different worldview. And so, when I'm in that abundance or when I'm coming from a growth mode, uh there's there's a total change transformation of what I'm seeing, how I'm relating to things versus the the survival mode or the reptilian brain where we're just trying to survive. And you can't be in the growth mode and survival mode at the same time. Either one or the other. So, it's really interesting. You um when you were talking about how people have to like chisel away to get to what is already there, and you've talked you I don't think you said it today, but you've talked about the Michelangelo quote about how, you know, he's really just stripping away the marble to get to the masterpiece that's already inside. I was like, I love the metaphor, it's really beautiful, but I don't actually understand it. But when you were talking just now, I realized that you're talking about the interpretations that we all have of what's happening. Mhm. So, and I don't want the the comment you made about the mirror mind to go by um without putting a finger on it. So, if I understand correctly, what you're saying is the the way that you create that space is by simply mirroring back in that instance exactly what is there without interpretation, without layers of I'm good or bad, but just simply this is the stimulus. And you said something and my mind was so doing what you warned about, which is predicting what you were going to say. That's right. And you said it's like background, and I thought for sure you were going to say background noise, and you said background music. Mhm. And that really hit me, and it hit me because you have this whole concept of basically you get more of what you focus on. So, if you focus on that it's background noise, then you're going to perceive the world one way, but if you focus that it's background music, even though it's the exact same situation, the exact same stimulus, you get a completely different result. And you've said that 90% of happiness is what exactly? Based on um it's based on how we interpret our experience. So not what's real, just how we interpret That's right. So you have people when if you have So we know that you can predict someone's this is from research that Shawn Achor did in his series of books on happiness advantage and that sort of thing that you can predict somebody's success in a job by three things. One thing is optimism or hope levels. Second thing is social support. And the third one is interpreting a situation as a challenge rather than as a curse. So that this changes, so it's a matter of the brain being in survival mode or growth mode. So just looking at it, so when we start with a basic goodness or we start with joy or start with a positive mind state, they call it the broaden and build theory that you actually uh your cognitive functioning is enhanced. In other words, instead of having this, you have this and your thoughts and your feelings are different totally different and you may be playing out, which we do, thought organizes things and we're thinking in a way how we're going to do something rather than how it's going to go badly. So it's this whole thing everything begins with the mind. So if we the mind is right, everything else is going to be right. If we see things clearly and accept the truth, know the truth and the truth shall set you free, now our reaction or our response to it, even if we react to it, we can step back and say, "Okay, that didn't work out so well. If I had it to do over, what would I change?" And then you change it. And you might have to like myself trying to get clean or whatever, you might have to react hundreds and thousands of times before you finally realize, "Oh, I don't have to do that." But you have to be paying attention and part of it is having that faith, that vulnerability to just see things that are hard to see. And things that are uncomfortable. So, in my book, I talk about you got to get comfortable being uncomfortable. So, can you handle the truth? It's the question. And if you can't, then you if you see that, then you can say, "Well, if I'm going to change, I'm going to have to figure out how to deal with that discomfort until the point that I can see what I need to see, then I can change it." So, it's the persistence of continuing to do something until you can do it. Is is is most of the work. Is is just continuing to make mistakes, learn from mistakes, but the mistakes are viewed as feedback, not as I'm a failure. It's It's just an event. It's not who we are. So, that error correction is really important. And when you can see when you attribute it to something you can learn or change, now you got faith and confidence to do it versus if you're seeing it like, "Oh, I'm just not strong enough. I'm not tall enough." and all of that. That's just that's what I call a negative committee telling you you can't do anything rather than saying, "Well, let me see what can I what I can do." So, it's like a child learning how to walk, right? Same thing. It's interesting hiding in there, um, I hear notions of identity. You talked You said something so interesting, and I actually thought it was a part of, um, recovery to say, "I am a recovering addict." And you said that they teach you not to do that. Why do they teach you not to say that? Yeah. So, my meditation teacher, uh, Larry Rosenberg, when I was in recovery, and he he understood. He said, "When you see yourself as a recovering addict, you are you are telling the universe you're identifying with with who you are instead of saying, 'I'm just in recovery.' Uh, right? Because because you're telling your nervous system how you want to behave. So, if I'm a recovering addict, then there's a whole there's a whole process that I'm supposed to be doing cuz I'm identified with being a recovering addict. And based on what I know of a recovering addict, I'm going to be living that out or or limiting my possibilities but put myself in a in this frame. So, focus on what you want rather than focusing on what you don't want. That's really powerful. Now, um in that uh you've talked about clarity being really critical. Um how do you help people find clarity? How should people think about what their goals are, what they want, what they're striving towards? How do they build that vision? So, beginning with a masterpiece pretty good place to start and then saying, "Well, what do I want?" Or and then being willing to to have the burning desire and then to put a a a plan of attainment in place and being willing to persist and keep changing things until you get what you want. So, it's like we become what we think about. Does that make sense? So, it's really more about uh like just keeping it simple and just well, you know uh who do you want to be? You know, what what why are you here on this planet? If you live according to the principles of of love, compassion, you know, uh appreciative joy, uh you know, celebrating other people's um successes but how do you overcome hatred and and confusion and just having a good heart? Then I think what you That's what happened to me. Then I start to get clear about what what I like to do and how I could be of service. How can I help other people? So, in recovery, the first thing they tell you is is you got to help somebody else that have the same problem so you can get out of your your selfishness or yourself um conceit or you know, your ego and just focus on how how you're going to help somebody else. And so, it's the There's no one way to do it but I what I would say is that it has everything to do with just be still and know. Just think about it's got to be inside job. So, how am I going to uh chip away to to express the masterpiece. Now, I can listen to you, I can listen to myself and other people, but I have to find a way that works for me. But, I have to keep at it and be willing to learn from my mistakes and continue to pay attention and to see is that taking me where I want it go and if it's not, then what else can I do? So, you need the mindfulness, but you need the understanding or the wisdom or what are the principles involved in in true north or or what does it mean to relate to another person? So, we know that mutual benefit, mutual respect is really helpful. Coming from a place of abundance is really helpful and if we think win-win, it's really helpful. And so, these principles, they don't change and they're universal and they're self-evident. So, if we're principle-centered, then then we'll we'll figure out the other stuff, but I'll be but those principles are guiding principles, they're guiding ideas that help us to just say, "Okay, how can I be George based on taking what I learned from Buddhism or or philosophy, psychology, or whatever, but the ultimate responsibility is me, but I have to have some idea or vision or possibility. What is the future I can live into that I'm motivated and inspired to live into cuz we live into the future we we see. So, when I was a addict, there was wasn't no future. It was just this, but once I realized, "Oh, I I don't have to be that. I can I can get out of that addiction and live a life of love and compassion and self-expression cuz that's that's what it comes down to. Basically, who am I and how can I express myself? Cuz that's what it comes down to. Yeah, so what are we all chasing after? I think everybody I don't know. You can think people According to Joseph Camp- Campbell, he thinks we're all chasing after a meaning or having a purpose. Uh maybe one thing. Some people say they they're chasing happiness and and of course Victor Frankl said happiness cannot be pursued, it has to ensue. So, you do things that make you happy. So, I say people want peace of mind and people just want to be happy. I would say or they don't want to suffer less. So, the way I look at it is if I can alleviate a little suffering or eliminate suffering completely, that would be huge. In yourself and others. And others, right. When we can open our heart and see other people suffering, it helps us to connect and have more compassion. Can't have compassion without suffering. Wow, never heard anybody say that before. I can have compassion for them cuz I know from a personal level what that feels like to be in pain or to feel like you're not worthy or that, you know, you're never going to be anything or you're just um just feeling really awful about who you are, self-worth low self-worth or just feeling like you're you're not worth anything. When when you can identify with that feeling, then it's easier to have compassion for somebody who's going through that cuz you know what it feels like and how awful it feels. And so, yeah, I think we're we're we're social creatures, but when I can relate so the pain I go through helps me to be more sensitive to other people's pain. So, it's just really uh it's it's just knowing that the universe works in a certain way. All right, it's a friendly universe. If you look at it that way, it's friendly. If you look at it as dangerous right? Yeah, we get to decide. So, when you look at it as a friendly universe and there's a lawfulness to it, then align with the lawfulness and then then that's how you You're going to have to go deeper on that one. I know what you mean. The the Einstein quote, the most important decision any of us will ever make is whether we live in a friendly or hostile universe. I've heard you talk about that a lot. So, I'll want you to start there, but then also um just how this all begins to play out. I think that you have some really interesting insights. So, what does it mean that we get to choose between those two things? Yes. So, number one, we don't know we can choose. That's our birthright. We get choice. And some people say, "Yeah, you're addicted or you're or you're you know, your genes and all of that stuff." Well, we know with consciousness, if you focus and do certain things, the genes may not even be turned on. So, it all comes down to this moment. This moment is the only time we can transform. And I say, "Joy now or never." So, I got laid off or I get fired from a job, I can relate to it like, you know, now what am I going to do? I don't have a job. I'm not going to be able to pay the rent or anything. Or I can say, "Oh, one door closes, another one opens." Cool. Okay. So, you know, why would I want to be somewhere where they don't want me? Right? So, that empowers me. Just by me interpreting it that way. And seeing that, "Oh, okay. No worries." And we know this from from research that people who uh have hope and optimism, then then they're going to figure stuff out. If you have the opposite of that, then you're going to be a victim. You're going to be in survival mode, and there's going to be no space. It's going to be noise and cluttered. There's no space to create. I love all that stuff, and I think that it's even more interesting in the context of what you do for a living. And and this I really want to talk about. So, you work with some of the highest-achieving, hardest-pushing, like, I mean, between Jordan and Kobe Bryant, I can't think of people that are more maniacally focused and driven. I mean, it's insane. Kobe used to make 1,300 three-point shots a day. Right. Just crazy. So, how do you have this like, it's about the not doing. It's about being still and quiet so you can hear the voice. It's about, you know, creating that space and also be like that intense. Yeah. So, that is interesting cuz I work with a lot of people and not everybody has that that pursuit of excellence or wants to be as in course Michael Jordan and in his interview said him and Kobe had that curse. It's not a curse, but it's like they just have to be a certain way. So it's really more about understanding that about themselves, the self-knowledge. This is how I roll, this is how I run. I'm committed to this and then showing them how or giving them the opportunity to see that okay, so if if you want to if you want to be better at making threes, then you got to put in that work. So you have to have the the passion, the fire. I mean, that's huge, the want to, the desire to push through pain and and that sort of thing, getting comfortable with uncomfortable. So you So Kobe had to have that, but it's also the the understanding that and this is the interesting thing about the elite athletes, and throw Tom Brady in there, they're always looking to get better. They're always looking at how am I What can I do now to give me an edge? And that's why I say they're probably the best students because they get it and they want to get better and they know this is going to help them get to the next level. So there's a willingness, but there's a want to there. There There's a passion there that that that you have to have. So it's not for those who need it, it's for those who want it. So you can have different degrees. Do you have to be as intense as them? No. But I I think that we have that capacity to do that. Now, whether or not we want to and whether or not we But a lot of it has to do with what we think the results of our training is going to be. So when you know that it's going to take you where you want to go, there's a commitment to doing whatever you need to do to get there versus like, okay, yeah, I want to cuz people say, yeah, I want to be like Mike and Kobe, but then when I tell them what they have to do, they said, "No, I ain't sign up for that." You know, I'm not trying to be like that. I'm not So and that's but them knowing that they don't want to make that commitment. So it's fine. It's nothing wrong with that. But the people who really get it and understand what it is to to really say, "Okay, I really want this." And then and that could be a problem. You can want it so badly that it that your effort's going to be marked up. So you got to want it badly, but then you got to allow things to happen. Mhm. That's That's the challenging thing. But when you have folks like like if you talk about MJ uh he just I mean I I I get I can tell you one time I'm working out with the team before the game and he has something going on with his finger and I have them doing some uh some kind of exercise and I said, "MJ, you don't have No, I'm doing that." That that's I mean it's just he's going to do what everybody else is not going to do. Kobe's going to have a finger there where he can't hold the ball, but no, he's not going to stop playing. He's going to change his shot and he's going to do what he needs to do. But he has that awareness and the know-how and the commitment to just doing what he has to do. If that means uh putting in another 3 4 hours a day on top of practice, that's not a problem because that's what he's committed to. And so so it it's it's just understanding what are you doing? Is it taking you where you want to go? Are you as intoxicated by the pursuit of greatness as I am? I I like when I hear stories about people like Kobe, like Jordan who are just driven to the level of being concerned for their well-being, that excites me. And it it ignites something in me and makes me think about my own potential and how much farther than what people think we're capable of we really are capable of. Or do you think that that is exactly what the Buddha was saying when he said that desire is the root of suffering? I see it is just me being me. And this is this is this is this is where my bliss is. So, I'm following it. So, for some people they're going to say, "Yeah, dude, you're you're Yeah, but that's their opinion. But to me, I'm just being George. So, to answer your question, yes, I I think that that there's commitment and I think because of that I get I get drawn to people like you, like Michael, like Kobe, and and other folks. Why? Because because um that's that's what I'm interested in. And that's And that's the energy that I'm creating. Yeah, I um man, there's something about people that are completely committed, that are completely driven, and that that I I am drawn to tremendously. It is so fascinating because um we were talking before we started rolling, I think you represent a a type of mindfulness practice that could have saved me from years of rejecting mindfulness because I thought it was soft. I thought it was weak. And I felt like the thing in my life I had to overcome was that that by my nature I was very lazy. I was very soft. I couldn't take pain. I couldn't hold a vision in my head of what I wanted to become and then execute against that if early in my life I was not willing to do the 1,300 three-point shots. And the the biggest gains in my life came from when I stopped worrying about how many shots I needed to make and I just started making them and falling in love with the journey for sure and not worrying about the end result, but really trying to love my day-to-day moment. I really resonate with what you're saying about this moment is all you have. Right. So, you better learn to experience or to enjoy that. And I found joy in the process, in the hard work because I could finally believe in what it was that I was trying to become. And so, for me, you're this fascinating mixture of you're really going hard for things. You really um obviously are attracted to to ultra high achievers, but at the same time you used to teach a 3-month silent retreat. And I I'm hoping you can bring that together for people that that they're the same guy that is helping the most extraordinary athletes reach an even new level, who's not telling them, you know, don't strive, don't go for these really big things, but at the same time understands way that you create that space is silence. Explain to us the power of silence. Explain why slow motion gets you there faster. Yeah, so when when I when I become a silent witness and I can observe things, what happens is in the way my definition of practice, even though I've done 3-month silent retreats and that sort of thing, I don't do that now. My practice from the time I wake up to the time I go to sleep. I can be mindful, you know, what's my mind, you know, how's my mind? Is it Is it moving toward, moving away, or is it just kind of spaced out? And so to me the secret is the con- continuity of mindfulness, continuity of paying attention to what I'm doing and understanding what I'm doing and why I'm doing it or whether it's working or not. So does that mean the continuity of mindfulness, is that about getting rid of my story around what's happening and just being present for the just realities of what's happening? Yeah, but you can be aware of the story and see how it affects you. See, the whole thing is it's not like either/or, it's like I got to get intimate with anger, with frustration, with with jealousy. But can I relate to it in a way where I'm not identified with it? I'm just noticing, oh, when there's anger in the mind, my jaws are tight and, you know, I'm I'm looking at people and, you know, I'm hating. I'm not really loving, I'm hating, you know, like, oh, I don't like him anyway, all that stuff. And then like I see that and say, okay, so is that who I want to be? No, then okay, so what do I need to change? I need to change my my What matters is whether we react or respond to it. That's the power. And that's faith. We get to choose. Don't let life choose for you. You get to choose. I get to choose. And that's what I say. I say, "Yes, and how am I going to make this work?" It's going to be great. What do you say to people that have tried meditation and they say, "I I just couldn't do it. I can't make my mind be silent." Well, for me, it was hard sitting still. So, some kind of movement. But, here's the thing. It's not about you making your mind silent. It's about being with the mind as it is. See, it's an interpretation of whether you're doing it right. If you don't think you're doing it right, you're going to have a version. I ain't doing this. But, if you just like even now, just sitting and and sitting and breathing, breathing in and breathing out and knowing I'm sitting, that's enough. Knowing that I'm listening and I'm talking to you, that's enough. I'm here. I love that. Before I ask my last question, tell these guys where they can find you online. Yeah, so they can find me at georgemumford.com. Uh and then there's a mindful athlete Facebook page. And I think my name on Twitter is George Mumford or George T. Mumford. I can't remember. I have somebody do that stuff. I'm not very good on it. And I think George Mumford at Instagram. So, I have folks that that help me with that that kind of stuff. But, yeah, it's So, they can find me there. All right. My last question, what's the impact that you want to have on the world? I want to each human being I interact with and each human being to release the divine spark or have some access to that peace, that stillness, that masterpiece within. So, obviously, I want to relieve any suffering and I want people to live more enjoy and to be more self-expressive, just be who they're supposed to be. I love that. All right, guys. Woo! You are going to want to read the book. It is absolutely extraordinary. It's called The Mindful Athlete and it really shows you how you can both pursue excellence to hold yourself to an extraordinarily high standard and at the same time learn to create that space in the eye of the storm so that you can slow things down, slip into your body as he says, which is really just a way of saying you're not thinking about what's behind you, not thinking about what's ahead of you, you're not telling yourself a story about the moment. You are simply in that moment. And if you've practiced something enough, then your body's really going to take over and of course that's what they call being in the zone and you're going to be able to perform your best and do truly extraordinary things. But if, like me, you're foolish and you reject the notion of there being power in the ability to create that space, you're forever going to hold yourself back. And I love his definition of getting to that masterpiece that's already inside of you, that it's not about thinking that you start bad and have to find your path to good. It's really about quieting your mind, stopping the interpretation, stopping beating yourself up, not telling yourself a negative story, choosing to live a principled life, which is focused on creating that beauty, that connection, finding the love so that in that moment you can have joy, which is what is going to prime you to be in the zone and to perform at your best. I think he is an extraordinary mind that you guys will all benefit from greatly, especially if you want to achieve something amazing and have fun doing it. All right, if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. And until next time, my friends, be legendary. Take care. All right. George, thank you, man. George Bernard Shaw said it better than I ever could. He said, "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in adapting the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."