Navy Seal:"We've Backed Putin Into A Corner" - Likelihood Of Nuclear War Rising | Jocko Willink

And you look at Russia and Ukraine, it's a test of wills. Well, the Ukrainians, this is their home. This is their home. This is their freedom, which I talked about earlier. So, how strong is their will going to be? It's going to be as it's going to be strong. It's going to be as strong as imaginable. And then on the other side, you have Russia. How much does Russia How much does Putin care about the level of sacrifice that's made? We don't know, but we're starting to see. I I would say we kind of know. We We're more familiar now that he's not that concerned. So, that's what we have. We have a test of wills because each side thought their will was going to be a little bit stronger. And and guess how we find out? We find out by fighting and we find out by killing each other until it's over. So again, I think that the Ukrainians are their will is absolute, but they also lack the numbers. And unfortunately, they're in a war of attrition because when you ask me what I think of it or what I think would be the outcome, I was in the beginning of the war thinking that Ukraine would fight a guerilla war. an asymmetric war and they have entered in more of a of a conventional war and this is this is a a conventional war for the most part very quickly turns into a war of attrition and now it's we have more people than you can make our ammunition faster than you and look America can keep sending bombs and guns but at a certain point. Somebody's got to wield those bombs and guns and it's if it becomes a war of attrition, which it is absolutely morphing into, that outcome is not going to be good for the Ukrainians because they don't have the same number of soldiers, don't the same number of people. What sucked them into a traditional conflict. I I think it happened because they they were able to achieve some some what appeared to be and what felt like conventional victories. So, I'm sure you saw images of of of patrols and convoys of Russian vehicles going in and being bombed and being and and it looked as if, oh, this almost looks like conventional warfare. It's these tanks against a smaller number of tanks, but against conventional type forces maneuvering against the Russians, and they were winning, which they did. But when you knock out 20 Russian tanks and you feel like it's a win and it is a win until the Russia sends 20 more tanks or when you kill 50 Russian soldiers and you lost five guys, you think, "Hey, that's a win." And it is a win. It's a tactical win. But then the Russians send 50 more soldiers and 50 more soldiers and 50 more soldiers and 50 more soldiers. So war should be the absolute last option and I I think it got moved up in the in the in the list of options unfortunately. Yeah, it does not feel globally like uh people are waiting until the last second for war right about now. Uh I would have said 10 years ago probably that maybe we really are at the end of history. That's certainly how it felt. Didn't feel like there was going to be any of the sort of conquering nation vibes uh anymore. And obviously that that tweet would have uh aged very poorly had I sent it. So the question becomes how do we get them to pull back? So again, you talk about detachment. So they're trying a strategy. Probably not going to work. If you went in to advise them, I assume it would go something like, "Uh, guys, play this one out. Doesn't end well. You're not going to be able to match them troop for troop." So I get it. A lot of reputations on the line that this was the right play, but we just have to look at the data and say this isn't going to work. Then what? Go back to guerrilla warfare. Would that be their only shot? Guerilla warfare. Yep. Guerilla warfare. And do you think there's just too much political machinery in the way for that to happen or why haven't they figured that out themselves? I mean, and don't get me wrong, they are doing some guerilla type warfare, but they also get drawn into, oh, this is our city. We're going to hold it. Is that the problem? Like it's a raccoon trap. That type of thing. That type of thing has happened. This is our city. We're going to hold it. We're going to fight for it. It's like if you fight for it and you kill a thousand Russians, but you lose a hundred Ukrainians, okay, there's going to come a thousand more Russians. And I'm sure you've seen pictures the the young kids that are now putting their uniforms on in Ukraine and they're going to go fight. This is this is what happens. Human capital. And yes, if I was there advising them, I would be telling them to fight a guerrilla war. No, guerilla war doesn't feel good if you're if you're a country like Ukraine. These are proud soldiers in a country that has a trained military. It is it is the it's almost the antithesis of the way they would think to fight and the way they would want to fight. They would want to fight manto man on the battlefield. And guerrilla warfare is not man-to-man on the battlefield. It's roadside bombs. It's snipers. That's what it is. And if you've been on the receiving end of roadside bombs and snipers, it's horrifying. So, but you'd have to kind of culturally change them to have the attitude that we're going to fight an asymmetric war against a numerically superior enemy, which is what they're facing. Who's the greatest guerilla force in history that you've studied? The greatest guerilla force in history, uh there's there's there's tons of them. I mean, you already mentioned some of the some of the Native Americans that were out there on the planes. They were they were outstanding. Obviously, you know, the the Vietkong, they were outstanding. They carried train uh tanks over a mountain range. That's insane to me. Yep. Yep. And I mean, the history is just filled with I mean, look at look at Afghanistan. That was they didn't that wasn't a conventional war. That was We left. Russia left. Russia left. England left. So three and0. Are they good at what they're doing? Yeah, they're good at what they're doing. It also shows you how powerful asymmetric warfare is because uh a force that's untrained, that doesn't have the technology, but they have time. I'm sure you heard that about the Afghans. Like the Afghans were like, "Oh yeah, you guys have bullets. You guys have bombs. We have time. This is where we live. That's what the That's what the Ukrainians have. That's where they live. They have time." And to try and fight the Russians in that way is bad. And then once that happens, the Russians, what the Russians should do is say, "Hey, look, we don't want this kind of beef. We don't want the because you try and occupy a country which is what Russia would have to do or occupy those those regions now you've got occupation forces occupation forces get picked off for a year three years 5 years 10 years and eventually they go all right we don't want to do this anymore that's what America said in Vietnam that's what America said in Afghanistan look we we don't want to do this anymore. So that's the way and and I actually you ask me how I think this will play out. I think that is how it will play out. It's just going to take a much larger amount of casualties to get there because I don't think the Ukrainians are going to surrender or anything, but they're going to get to a point where they can no longer attempt to to fight face to face against the Russians. So they're going to be forced into a into a insurgency and then it'll be a long drawn out process. I that was when people had originally asked me about what was going to happen. I said this is going to be a 15-year war. It's going to be an insurgency by the Ukrainians in the occupied zones of the Russians. And that didn't happen. It didn't happen because it turned into a a conventional war. Very much a conventional war. Not total, but a much more conventional war that is not as advantageous to the Ukrainians. Do you have a read on Putin? What do you think are his ambitions? There's been much debate about um is he an imperialist who's not going to stop until he's gobbled up all of Ukraine? Is he really just trying to create a border from uh NATO? Do you have a sense? I could tell you my sense. I don't know if I don't I don't wouldn't put much weight on my assessment. Um, so I whether it's worth even chiming in on, I I don't know. I I mean, we the West definitely pushed Putin and cornered him. And Putin is the type of guy that you can't corner. You need to give him a way out. You need to give him a a way to save face. And I don't think we did a good job of doing that. Um, he's a proud guy. And when you corner someone that's proud, this is why people are worried about him using nuclear weapons because they know that much about him. He's a proud guy. He's proud of his country. And you corner a guy like that, you don't give him a way out. They do dumb things. Ego, right? Yes, indeed. All right, I have to ask because I actually want to know. Uh you get elected president and uh Putin's like, "All right, I I'm going to beat this guy in jiu-jitsu and then we we can call the whole thing off." Can you take him? Yeah. Yeah. He's he's he's a jud he's a judo practitioner and so he's going to be very good skilled on the feet and he's going to have judo also has excellent groundwork as well. But how old is Putin right now? I think he's 70 or pushing 70. Yeah. Yeah. He's going to have real problems with me if that's what it's going to come down to. Um but I think yeah I I I would take I would take Putin. [snorts] Now, somebody uh I asked for uh fans of yours for things they wanted to ask that nobody's ever asked. And one of them was, "How hard do you choke?" So, since we're talking about uh tapping Putin, how hard do you choke? Uh I mean, till people tap. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not that big of a deal. That it's weird, you know, for you like choking is a big deal, but for people that do jiu-jitsu, it's just it's like how hard do you shake someone's hand? It's like that's just the way things go and that's life and you get choked and and Putin's an old guy and if a 70-year-old guy had to fight me, it would be a bummer, you know, like if I had to fight a 27year-old jiu-jitsu champion, it'd be a problem for me, right? And and I actually do that pretty regularly and it's usually a problem. So, uh, all right. So, there are two major conflicts in the world right now. Um, what's your take on what's going on with Israel, Palestine? Uh, is that going to play out tactically as um they just keep bombing from the air? Have they already started backing off from that? I think I heard they had. Um, are the tunnels going to be the problem? Like, how does this one play out? The way it's going to play out, I I think that Israel is very determined to completely eradicate Hamas. Do you think they have a metric by which they judge that? Like, they obviously don't have a roll call of who everybody is, and you go find them, and when the checklist is done, you're done. Or do they? Um, I bet they have pretty good intel. I mean, there's once you start having intel sources inside of a country, like you can know a lot about what's going on. And I bet you they have a pretty good roster. You know, whether they have a roster that's down to a man, I don't know, but they they know. And I think they've determined that they need to eradicate Hamas. And I think they're going to eradicate Hamas. And I don't it it certainly does not appear through their current actions that they're going to relent at all until they've gotten Hamas eradicated. Do you think the international pressure for them to uh dramatically drop the body count will force them to go tunnel by tunnel, house by house? Or do you think they're just going to be like, "Ah, [ __ ] it." Like, we're just going to keep bombing the bomb. You still once you bomb, you still have to go in. So, they're gonna have to go in one way or the other. And so, I I think they're going to make the judgment on that question, not based on international pressure. I think they're going to make that judgment based on when they are tactically ready, they feel like they've got it to a point where they can go in and do the street to street, house-to-house tunnel clearance, then then then they'll do it. But I don't I think the inter the international pressure came so quickly that it didn't like mount. The international pressure didn't mount. It just it pegged. It redlined and it's just staying there. And I think Israel's sort of saying, "Okay, well that's the international pressure. It's redlinining, but we're going to keep doing what we're doing until we get this threat completely eliminated." Do you have fears of that escalating? It's going to cause years and years of strategic problems for Israel because they're going to have to, you know, people are going to seek revenge on them for the next hundred years. So, do I think it's going to be an issue? Yep. Might it be some short-term thinking for them? Yep. Is that the mode that they're in right now after they have their, you know, people massacred? Yep. How close have you looked at that situation in terms of the historical context? Decently. Is this intractable on anything remotely approaching a realistic timeline? Like sure, maybe over a thousand years it unwinds, but is this something that can unwind in the next two generations? No. Not. There's zero options. Zero options. What is the sticking point? Um, lack of forgiveness and egos. So, if you and I have a problem and whatever happened in the past, we can't forgive each other. We will not have resolution. And there's been atrocities on both sides. And there's enough people on each side that will not forgive that the people that will not forgive and will not move forward will continually drag the rest of those both sides down. Will they drag them down or will they suck them in? Suck them in, drag them down, whatever you want to call it. [snorts] Yeah. Well, it's interesting to me. There's a very big uh chasm between those two ideas. So idea number one is that hatred is so powerful and I can rally you around your hatred and the misery, the squalor that you live in and I can pull that front and center and I can say they've done this to you and not only um as as an act of divine justice must you strike them down. Um but it's the only way forward for us to finally have what God wants us to have. We have to do this. That's sucking them in. um sucking them down would be uh hey please stop don't don't strike them again for the love of God like let us just live our lives and then they go strike anyway and then you get bombs and so I I am not close enough to that problem to understand like whether the populace is like no we we elected them this is who we want to lead us and they're right and this is just and this what's happening to us now is is merely more proof of the injustice of of these people that have held us down for so long. Uh I don't know if that's how they read it or if it really is like, oh my god, like if we could just get leadership in here that wasn't um constantly provoking them, we could finally achieve balance of some kind. The answer is yes. Both those things are occurring. And there's there's both people that are wishing that they there's people in in both Israel and in Gaza that are wishing that the damn governments would stop and we could just like carry on with our normal lives and and shake hands. There's people in both those elements. I mean, you see protesters see protesters in Israel. You don't see them so much in in Gaza right now. Uh but there is there is there was like I I saw images and videos of people in Gaza lashing out at Hamas, especially when it comes time for aid to get delivered. So there's there's people on both sides that that that would just assume, hey, we've had enough of this. Let's shake hands and let's carry on. And there's also people that are completely So what was that? Well, that was sucked in. Or is that sucked down? Okay, that's sucked down. And there's also people that are sucked in on both sides, right? That are like, nope, the only way that this is what they did, the Israelis right now, October 7th and whatever other the countless other atrocities and then the the Palestinians and their land and their atrocities. And you take both those things and they're not going to stop. They're not going to forgive. They're not going to forget. And they're going to fight. All right. Let's say that you were living in a portion of America that became qualitatively like Palestine is right now. That feels like warlord territory for me, which you have somewhat jokingly said, if things ever got bad enough, I would just become a benevolent warlord. Uh, I would take over. And you at one point you said something like I wouldn't say that I was stoked if we were at end of days but uh I'm ready for it. Um what what would you actually do? Like so I you may not know this about my background but uh I actually came up as a writer, film guy. Uh, I've written screenplays, comic books, all kinds of stuff like and and I love the quote about a science fiction author that your job is not to forecast the automobile, it's to forecast the traffic jam. So, you're trying to figure out like, okay, what I know about humans, how how is this going to play out? So, it I get I'm asking you to imagine a fictional scenario. But in said fictional scenario, knowing what you know about you and other people and what it would be like, cuz I'm going to assume you'd be trying to lead people to something better and more hopeful and um but that you actually have the ability to be violent, to be dangerous, to um back down the the dogs at the door. So what would that really look like if there was some sort of an apocalyptic event that took place where where legitimately I mean I'm trying not to say what would if you were in Palestine what would you do but like if you were in a situation just like that where you've got bad warlords and they are holding the population hostage to some extent. Uh it's rubbled the [ __ ] out man. I mean, this place is just you're you're literally getting MREs drop from the sky, and that is the only way that you guys are subsisting. You just watched however many years of billions of dollars of aid pour in, and it all went to military tunnels and stuff like that. There it did not go to projects that make the people's lives better. Uh, knowing that your um the core thing that you build up from is freedom. Um, ready go. Do you start like being that charismatic leader that organizes people or do you find the person that's going to be the mouthpiece? I would say you've got so much credibility I'd expect it to be. So I I I hate to um drill down like this, but are you talking about a hypothetical situation where there's a apocalyptic event and now there's mayhem going on? or you talking about if I was a Palestinian right now in Palestine or sorry in Gaza, what would I do? Those are like very different questions. Then then we'll start with you're in Gaza right now, but you're you are Palestinian. So that you're you're one of the people. What would you do? Well, the the other assessment or the other assumption that we have to make is that I'm Palestinian. I'm in Gaza. But I have an open mind, right? So I I my mind is my mind is is free to assess what's happening. So yeah, if I was there right now, what I would do is I would start looking around going, "Okay, the situation that we're in is absolutely horrific and we cannot continue down this road. What is happening?" All right, do the do the Palestinian people around me, the my friends, my family, what what what's happening with them right now? What do we need to do so that we can secure and stabilize our lives and our like small area, our building, our city block, whatever the case may be. I'm going to get that thing stable and secure. And one of the ways that I'm going to be able to do that is my family, my friends, my close friends. We're going to start to secure my area. And then guess what? I'm going to go across the block to the next people over and say, "Hey, what's going on with you guys? Where where you at? How many people you got? How many how many able humans do you have here? because we got to make some things happen. Number one, we got to figure out a way to get the food that's getting dropped onto the beach. I want to help us get that done and I want to do it in a in a way that we can help as many people as we can. Right now, we got injuries happening because people are fighting each other for that stuff. So, let's get some control over that. So, that's what I would do. I would start very small with my family and my immediate friends and getting some kind of control over a small area. Once I have control over that small area, now I'm going to start expanding that. And what we're going to be looking to do is we're going to be looking to stabilize things as opposed to dis destabilize things. And and so what do I have to do? That means the Hamas guys that are down the street will be like, "Hey, you guys, you guys are getting bombed. You're not going to get us bombed. So you don't come over here. If you go come over here, we're going to have a problem. And I'm going to go to the border and talk to the Israelis and say, "Hey, you guys are bombing us. Don't bomb here. This is going to be a problem if you bomb here, so don't. Here's where we're at." So, I would start to try and communicate and I would start to try and build relationships with these two opposing elements so that I could best support the people that I'm trying to now take care of. Man, uh, I love that. This is the beginning of something very interesting. So I don't know how far we'll be able to take the hypothetical, but at each of the things you're describing, I'm able to track how you view the world in a really interesting way. Uh so you're first safety, right? So Maso's hierarchy of needs. We're going to just make sure everybody's sheltered, they've got food, they've got water. Uh then we're going to try to stabilize access to the resources that we're going to need. Then we're building alliances, whether it's with the person next door or whether it's with the um the other military. And in fact, as you were going to first Hamas and then the Israeli military, I could feel you reaching out to who are the bodies that matter. Like what what swings the needle here? Let me identify those things. Go out and do it. It's what's so interesting about that analysis is that is exactly what you do in business except nobody's shooting at you. Um, but in terms of like, okay, where are we at now? We need to stabilize. We need to gain access to in business capital. I need the resources. I need to know what my run rate is. How far, how long can I either lose money or how much profit am I making to be able to scale and grow? Um, keeping an open mind, getting ego out of the way, knowing who to talk to. But also there's a little bit of threat in the [ __ ] that you say which uh I just come back to is I think a big part of the reason that people you're an archetype for people and that they keep wanting you to run for president because they hunger for that archetype. They hunger for a strong man with the tactical and strategic ability to do that who has a set of morals which I think is so important which I think you've called principles. Um, yeah, that's kneeling before something, which you didn't specifically say in this, but it feels like you're kneeling before the family, the people on your team. I'm here to serve you. I'm going to make sure you guys are okay. I have to imagine that would be a lot of the rhetoric as your coalition building. Like, look, treat us well. Don't do anything [ __ ] stupid. We've got your back. You're going to be well taken care of. Um, how am I doing so far? Yeah. Trying to get people to think more strategic about what's happening and and hey, this is where we are right now. We can lash out over here or lash out over there, but where does that get us in the long run? Where does that get us strategically? And if it's not going to help us strategically, then we shouldn't be doing it. So that that ties into what I would be saying to my people. What would you do? Because here's the thing I think in reality you would run into. um you have an implicit goal in that which is I want everyone here to thrive. That's my goal and so that's what I'm working towards. Uh you're going to run up against people who their goal is to punish the enemy. What would you do when it's they understand your goal, they just don't buy into it. They have a totally different goal. How would you handle that? Yeah. What's what's your long-term strategic goal look like? Because you're saying you want to hurt the enemy. What does that do? Where does that get us? Because we can go hurt the enemy tonight. And hey, we can go hurt the enemy on October 7th, right? That's exactly what they did. They they hurt Israel badly. Where's it gotten them? So that's what it's it's getting people to think strategic instead of think tactically and getting people to think with logic instead of think with their ego and their emotions, which is not easy. And you can't just you can't just say don't get emotional. You can't you can't pull emotion and ego completely out of the completely out of the calculus of your decision- making, but you have to weight them a lot less because I've got people the same thing with the Israelis. The Israelis can't be like, "Hey, they attacked us." So, but you know, we can't get emotional. We need to have a measured response. Like, no. It's like, you have to put that emotion into the calculus. my wife and daughter and son were just murdered and we need to do something about it now. Like, okay, we gotta we gotta take this. It's real. The emotion is real. So, you got to put that in the calculus. At the same time, you also can't let emotions be the heaviest weight in your decision-m process. You can't let your country's ego be that biggest weight in your decision-making process. Do does it have to have weight in there? Yeah. But it can't be the biggest weight that's now driving you to do things that don't make sense in a long-term strategic way. Yeah. [snorts] That's why to me this all comes down to goals. Uh because if your goal is simply to hurt and kill as many people as you can on your enemy's side and that death for you is perfectly acceptable. There is no problem with that. Uh in fact, it is simply the gateway to eternal paradise. That's where it gets tricky. uh and probably part of why this is so difficult to unwind because in the emotion of they must be hurt, justice must be served, divine justice. And if I die in the service of that justice, that's fine. Um you now have a loop because you you don't have a way to back them out of that by saying, "Well, I have a better goal for you." Right? Look at your son, your daughter. because my initial reaction and I still believe the following statement is true but it's probably incomplete and probably a little naive uh but when I think about whatever the solution is going to be the solution is going to involve Palestinians believing that their kids have a bright future and the second they don't believe they have a bright future all hope is lost now them believing that their children have a bright future now that comes down to definition of bright future uh and if bright future is being a martyr that becomes more problematic. Uh so anyway, I fully acknowledge that I'm thinking through this. I'm so early in my thought process. I do not have enough of the information, but I do think it's valuable uh for people to leave breadcrumbs about how they think through a problem. Um so yeah, very very interesting. All right. Uh I want to go back to something that you said a minute ago. You were saying I would go over and ask how many able-bodied people do you have? You didn't say men. And I'm assuming you didn't say men for a reason. What are your thoughts about female leadership in battle? Well, in a situation like that where we've got a limited number of people and I can take females and put them on sniper rifles and put them into positions where they can utilize their skill sets that they have. That's of course in any when you have an existential threat, you're going to you're going to need everybody. So I mean that's one of the reasons Israeli the Israeli military does have prominent female um members. I mean everyone serves male and female and leadership specifically. Do you see any difference in um ability at just a general level? Well yes all leaders have various levels of ability but that's what I mean like on on averages. So, average male, average female. Um, certainly there's strength discrepancies, but are there leadership propensities that differ? You know, I I've worked with all kinds of male and female leaders, and the good male leaders and the good female leaders all have the same fundamental characteristics and they follow the same principles. and all the bad leaders that are male and female all have the same terrible idiosyncrasies and egos and emotional issues. And so it's more based on the individual human being than it is based on what uh whether they're male or female. Uh do you find that guys have a problem following a female superior? I'm sure some guys have a problem following a female superior. And I can also tell you factually that there are many many guys that have a problem following male right superiors. So if some if if you're a guy with a big ego, you don't like listening to anybody and you'll find whatever thing it is about them. Oh, freaking Tom's not, you know, he's he's hasn't been to college or Tom he hasn't done this job before or Tom he doesn't even know what it's like to whatever. I can find plenty of reasons that I shouldn't have to listen to you. And if I can make it because you have uh brown hair or whatever or make it because you're a female, it's all it's all just ego talking. And it's you're gonna find that that person that doesn't want to be led by a female is going to have whatever kind of beef with whatever kind of person is in that situation. If you were, would you have a problem following a female leader? No. Yeah. No. I mean, I've got so uh well, three of the bigger companies that I have. Um Jaco Fuel, which is a supplement company. Our our COO is is a female, Echelon Front, which is a leadership consulting company. Our our COO is a female. So, and and then Origin USA, which is a clothing manufacturing company. Our COO is a female. So, in fairness though, you're the CEO of all those companies. So while you clearly have high level leadership that are women, uh if if you and let's put it on the battlefield, if you had a um high-erforming, very competent female leader, platoon leader, sure. Uh would you have any problem falling in line and following her the way that you would follow any male leader of similar competence? So hold on a second. You're asking me right now if there was a highly competent leader. Yep. That I had to work for, would I have any problem with it? Yes. If it was female, like this is no factor. This it's it's no factor. Yeah. I I agree violently. I don't understand why anybody looks at anything other than competence. So if if a woman if a anything can lead me to where I'm trying to get to, that is all I care about. I find it very weird that people don't use as their northstar utility efficacy like is this going to work or not? I mean the discrepancy that you already mentioned which is the discrepancy in combat is the is the physical component. That's the discrepancy in in a combat situation is uh generally speaking females are smaller and weaker. And so in combat that depending on your job that can be a significant issue and sometimes your job isn't what you expect your job to be because sometimes your job is picking up your friend that weighs 200 lb and then another 200 another 70 lb with gear on and that's a problem. So, so for for when you're talking about specifically in combat, there's a there's a physical discrepancy that that that causes women to very seldomly have the physical capability to be in combat units. It's why they there not a ton of them in combat units. I mean, there's been some females have went have gone through ranger school. Um, so I think there's been Yeah. So obviously there's females have gone through airborne school, but there's there's I think there's there's an infantry marine uh right now female I I believe, but I'm not 100% sure. But that's that that boils down doesn't boil down to their um cognitive capacity or anything like that or their leadership capability. It just boils down to their their biological uh structure. Yeah. I mean I partly asked just so that people can hear you somebody obviously that that they will really respect at this level um say the the north star is competence. Yeah. I think is very very wise. As we move forward as a country, there is a very big potential that we could face China as a a either cold war or flirting with a hot war if something kicks off in Taiwan. Is that something that you think about? Uh is it is it something that you think is plausible? Would you ever want to see American boots on the ground in Taiwan? Definitely not. I definitely wouldn't want to see that. But I don't think it I don't think the I think the Chinese will wait. I think the Chinese will wait and let us let us um let us go to war with ourselves first. And when we're going to war with ourselves, even not not even a hot war in America, but just a a cold war in America, a cold civil war, which is like sort of what we're in the beginning of right now. And you know, it's funny now that I think about it. You know, I mentioned that, hey, these people aren't willing to sacrifice in a hot war, but we could definitely get into a cold civil war here where we can't progress, we can't make decisions, and if China can do wait until we're at kind of the height of a of a cold civil war, they could probably get away with anything. And they know that. Yeah, China is patient. Uh that is for sure. They think in much longer time cycles than we do. Um, yeah, it it will be very interesting given how much technology comes out of Taiwan. It's so critical. It really will become a question, I think, of uh if Xi ever feels like he's got time pressure on him and he needs to make a move. Um, I don't I'm not close enough to that whole thing and how Xi thinks. But, um, certainly talking to enough highlevel people that there's some concern even if it's not necessarily foot on the gas. My hope is that the Chinese economy has taken a big enough hit uh right now that they're just not going to be in a position where now would be the time. We'll see. We'll see. Uh I don't like kicking the can down the road for somebody else just to have to deal with it. I'd rather figure out a way around the problem. Certainly felt a lot better when we were a far more global society. Uh but the unwinding of that is very interesting. Speaking of that, in fact, uh you manufacture in the US. So this I is that in some ways a reaction to the gutting of American manufacturing as we globalized or it's 100% it's 100% a reaction to that. We took our manufacturing and we sent it overseas and we are bringing it back to America. So it's 100% a reaction to that. And is that for uh we need a thriving middle class. What's the what's the on the ground result you want to achieve? Bring manufacturing back to America because that means you have a thriving m uh middle class. It means you have the ability to manufacture. It means you don't have to rely on on people overseas to make things for you which is almost where we were at. So there's a whole plethora of reasons. I mean I grew I grew up in New England. In New England, all the manufacturing jobs were sent overseas, especially in in the clothing industry. They were sent overseas. They and we have literally bought machines from overseas and brought them back to America. So, we are 100% bringing it back so that we as a nation can become self-sufficient again. Not to mention, if you care about, look, I mentioned freedom a little bit during this. If you care about freedom at all and you're supporting companies that manufacture in overseas sweat shops where it's basically slave labor, that's a problem. And if you support environmental causes, well, when you manufacture stuff overseas, they don't care about the environment at all. They get done dying a pair of blue jeans and whatever's left over, they dump it in the river, which goes to the ocean, kills everything. They don't care when they have to put something in the wash to to to break down some of the material. There's chemicals in that wash. What do they do with that when it's done? They dump it in the ocean. They don't care. They don't care at all. They don't care about their workers getting injured. They don't care about anything. And so if you care about freedom, if you care about the environment, if you care about the economy, if you care about America being self-sufficient, if you care about those things, your goal would be to one of your one of the primary ways you could do that is to bring manufacturing back to this country. And that's exactly what we're doing. Okay. So self-reliance uh is something I'm getting as one of your drivers. I'm imagining you standing before the people that work at your company there. I have done this at my own company so I know what this is like. And one of the things I always tried to do was paint what does it mean to work at the time quest, right? What does it mean to work there? What what is the part of your identity that I want to breathe life into? What's the galvanizing identity if you have one that you try to give your workers? And I imagine that the sort of America American spirit is part of that. Literally everything I just said and everybody that works for us knows and understands and believes in what we're doing and in what they're doing cuz they're what make it possible. You you have to have people ready to work. And that's what we have. We have an incredible force of people that are that have these skills that are learning these skills and that are going to take these skills and continue to grow with us. So they all they all innately understand the importance of this 100%. That's what we're doing. That's that's why we're doing it. And that's what we're doing. That's why we're doing it. And those people are the why. the the people that that that work with us, they are the why. We are the why it's America. They all know that. They all understand that there's this is and and it's actually been awesome to see because now I'm starting to see a lot more other companies are trying to bring manufacturing back. I'm supporting as much as I can, but everybody is starting to look around and say, "Oh yeah, we need to bring manufacturing back to America." And it's happening. It's it's absolutely happening. And look, CO helped out with that as well, right? Because all of a sudden you had the shipping problems, you had the customs problems, all that stuff made people realize how weak our supply chain was. And good companies looked around and said, "That's not a that's too vulnerable of a position to be in." And it is too vulnerable of a position to be in, not only for a business, not only for an economy, but for a nation. You can't be relying on other countries, especially adversarial countries, to to allow you to buy goods from them. That's insanity. But our corporations, corporations in this country, they decided that profit was more important. They decided that if they could make a pair of blue jeans for $2 less and make $2 more and fire a bunch of American workers and shut down our supply chain, they decided it was worth it. And they did it and then they lied because they lied to us and have said we don't have the ability to do that anymore. That's a lie. That's a lie. This is America. This is America. We can make anything and we will and we're going to show the world. That's dope, man. So, as somebody who also manufactured here in America at the beginning of Quest, I can't speak to it now because I left, but um when I was there, all of it in America and it was awesome. Now the crazy thing is I don't know if this is true for you as well but we were manufacturing in Compton city of industry like places where people came up hard hard and to be able to give people a legitimate business where they had opportunity to grow and to get health insurance and um just be a part of something and especially in the early days when nobody knew who we were and it was just like all right we're here to do something like we're because we as a company had a mission that we were really trying to turn health around and that we so my wife and I uh have said for a long time, it doesn't matter who you are today. It only matters who you want to become and the price you're willing to pay to get there. And so we were talking and I was like, do we really mean that or is that just some cool rhetoric? And we were like, "No, we we really do mean that." And I was like, "Okay, then if we mean that, we should be willing to consider somebody for employment even if they have a felony conviction." And she's like, "Yeah." So I was like went to my partners. I'm like, "What do you guys think?" They're like, "Yeah, let's do it." So we decided to tell people, hey, even if you have felony conviction, we'll consider you for employment. We had people lined up around the building to interview. I had to interview people in groups. There were so many people coming in. We were growing so fast. And I remember telling them at one point, I started what I called Quest University. And I said, I will teach you anything you want to know about entrepreneurship. And the reason I'm going to I'll come in early, I will stay late. I'll teach you how to build a competitive nutrition company. And the reason I want to do it is I really believe that if you understand that I care more about your future than your own mother, that you're probably going to stay here. And if you if the more empowered you get, the more likely you are to leave one, fine. Like, if you can go off and do amazing things in this world, I'm here for it. But I have a feeling that I'm going to be able to retain a ton of you just because you're like, "Yo, this really matters and this means something to me and thank you." And dude, it ended up being exactly that like seeing that moment where somebody thinks um because I remember one kid came in and told me because I would give them like guys, you have to understand like you see an after picture of who I am now. You don't know who I used to be. And it's just a set of ideas. It always comes back to that for me that took me from when I was broke and had no idea how to control my life to now running this billion-dollar company. And I can teach you those ideas and it will have a similar impact on your life. And this one kid came to me and he's like, "But I, you know, I I just have a hard time believing in this because my mom told me that people look that look like me, uh, the world doesn't want them to succeed." And I was like, "Homie, listen, you cannot think like that." And Kobe Bryant has this incredible quote, "Boos don't block dunks." And I was like, you can get so good at something that even if people want you to fail, they can't stop you. And so the goal is just to get that good, get so good that nobody can stop you from doing this thing. And so just so many of these guys went on to change their lives and do incredible things. And obviously Quest ends up becoming this historic uh run and partly because we just had so many people there bleeding to make it happen. It it really was extraordinary. So from the outside, hopefully people want to bring manufacturing back to America, but when you're in the middle of it, it is intoxicating of like the sense of pride and creating something and being a part of something. It's it's really pretty incredible. I see the exact same thing on all fronts. I mean, Ashelon Front, our consulting company, we got people traveling around the country and the world teaching people these leadership principles that's going to make their life and their business so much better. The the supplement company, Jaco Fuel, the the extent that we went through to make the cleanest possible product was extraordinary. And everybody on the team knows that the standard is so high, it's unmatched. um the the the energy drink here, like this is just to give you an indication. I didn't want to have chemical preservatives in it. And so the only way to overcome that was to pasteurize pasteurize the drink, which means heat it up. And there was no lines that had pasteurization tunnels to make the drink in America at all. At all. Wow. So, we pushed back our timeline almost a year and had a line built that had the pasteurization in it so we could put the cleanest product out there that and my standard is like the the anecdotal standard for me is I want my kids to have this. So, my own kids, I want them to be drinking this. It it I don't want to make I'm not going to make anything that I wouldn't be happy that my kids are drinking or consuming. And that's the standard. So everybody knows it there and then yeah at Origin USA same thing everybody knows and they know they've got an opportunity especially you know you go up into well we got factories in North Carolina we got factories in Maine those are areas that were decimated decimated and now no jobs and now we've got people that were from that industry are now coming back and they're taking that knowledge and passing it on to the next generation. And it's just phenomenal. And yeah, the feeling that you get and we do the same thing like, hey, we we invest as much as we can into our people. And sure, they can look around and go, hey, I think I could do go do this myself. Okay, I'll invest. You want to go try this? Go. But most actually almost every one of them says, "No, we want we're we're in. We're on the we're on the train. Let's go." So, it's a it's an amazing it's an amazing opportunity and a blessing to be able to have this opportunity. But I think that this mentality is is is spreading because people recognize again due to COVID due to what's going on in the country. I mean, one of the that's one of the problems that we have. Why are people sitting around looking at social media? Because they don't even they don't have a career that they are invested in. They don't have a skill set. Well, if you come and you learn how to work a loom and you learn how to weave material, all of a sudden you got a a job and a skill and value and that's awesome. So, I I think these things, they're going to have impact and they're going to continue to have impact, not just, you know, from an economic perspective, but really from a cultural perspective inside the country. So speaking to that meaning and purpose finding that at work one thing I've heard you say that um we're looking at the same data and we're seeing something very different is you say I hear all the time that young men are really struggling there's something unique going on there's nothing unique going on this always been an an age that people go through whether you're back in the 40s 80s whatever it doesn't matter you're always going to see it um I look at the data and the data does seem to suggest that there really is uh something unusual happening. I wrote a bunch of the statistics down. Um so uh according to uh mission readiness um 75% of 17 to 24 year olds uh back in 2009 were ineligible for military service due to lack of education, obesity, and other physical problems. That number's declined to 71% but hasn't exactly uh gone to a great number. The former under secretary of the army, Joe Reer, said, "Imagine 10 young people walking into a recruiter's office and seven of them getting turned away. We cannot allow today's dropout crisis to become a national security crisis. Men are physically weaker than they were 30 years ago. Grip strength is down 26 pounds for men aged 25 to 29. Obesity rates uh for young men have skyrocket for young people have skyrocketed it skyrocketed. Fewer young men are having sex. That one's a big trigger for me. Uh more men are committing suicide, which obviously is terrifying. Anxiety and depression rates are off the charts. Uh and the military in general just has a recruiting problem largely for the thing that I said above. But also there's just a negative sentiment against the military. Um but you look at that and you think same as it ever was. Well, you know, according to your numbers, it's not same as it ever was. So, if you think you're a person that's listening to this right now and you might be on that list for one reason or another, I got some ideas for you. Go to the gym, start training jiu-jitsu, clean up what you're eating, try and figure out a skill that you want to learn. Go learn that skill. Go be productive. Go make money. Go meet some girls. Apparently, if you've got some issues where you're not having sex. So, I think these are all things that you can you can remedy. I mean, they're clearly things that you can remedy. And as far as the military goes, what they probably need to do is some kind of a program where we take people that aren't physically ready for the military and put them through a program for four weeks. And you could probably get just about anyone ready for the military in four weeks of training, maybe six weeks. So yeah, that's uh it's sad to hear those things. You know, it's probably the reason that I don't see a lot of it is because, well, I own a gym in San Diego, California called Victory MMA. I own a gym and guess what? The gym's filled with a bunch of people that are trying to get better. A bunch of men and women and girls and boys that are in there training, learning jiu-jitsu, lifting weights, doing pull-ups. Like, it's that's what I see. And it's and it's a lot of them. And then obviously with the supplement company, you see people all the time, we sell a lot of product. Why are we doing that? Well, because people want to get better. They want to eat healthier. They want to be they want to have clean fuel in their system. So that indicates to me that people are shifting in the right direction. And Echelon Front, we do events all over the country. Often times when we do those events, the questions that we get asked are about being being physically in shape, how to manage your health, how to stay on the right path. So, even though there's some anecdotal information, and it's not even anecdotal, even though you've got some facts there that paint a pretty sad picture, I would go so far as to say we might be at some kind of a bottom of the trough right now. And people have recognized that that's where we're at. And now people have turned the corner and recognized that we got to get back into shape. Get off of your phones, get out into the gym, get into the field, get outside, go walk, go hike, go run, go train jiu-jitsu, and go get after it. And I think that is again, I would venture to say that we are probably at the bottom of a trough right now and we're climbing out of it and we're about to rebound and end up higher on the other side. How's that for some positivity coming at you? I like it. That was good. That's what I see. That's what I see all the time. That's what I see. I see these people. I I I have a gym. I go to I see these people every single day and there's new people signing up every single day. We sell supplements that make you stronger and healthier and people buy them all the time. That's a huge indicator of where people's minds are. I think COVID helped because I think during COVID people started doing research. People started to recognize how important it was to be healthy. So, I think there's some things that are going to swing swing us out of this trough and we're going to be stronger, faster, and smarter than we ever were in this country. I love it. I'll sign up for that message. Uh, when people ask me, "Hey, I want to get into business. What should I do?" The first thing I will tell them very often is get in the gym and get in shape. Why do you want to see people uh get control of their body? That's using my language, but why do you want to see them get in the gym? Because everything else in your life will get better. Everything Everything else in your life will get better. Everything else in your life. Why do you think that happens? [sighs] You know, take take your car to the shop and get it tuned up. It's It's going to do better. It's going to do everything better. It's going to accelerate better. It's going to break better. The radio's going to sound clearer. Everything's going to be better. Right. Why do I need my body to be in shape? Yeah. It's it's it's it will help everything that you do if you start to exercise. And I recommend, look, exercise whenever you can. You got to make it work. I recommend you exercise in the morning. I recommend you get up, you get out of bed, you go exercise, get on a program. It doesn't matter what the program is. And if you're if you haven't worked out in 20 years and you're totally out of shape, cool. Start by start by walking. Start by doing a 10-minute walk, 15 minute walk, then a 20 minute walk, then a five minute jog, and then a 10-minute jog, and then get yourself a pull-up bar and start hanging on that thing, and then start doing a couple push-ups. Like, just start to build and every part of your life's going to get better. It's It's not just, oh, this knucklehead Jono sitting here saying your life's going to get better. No, you will be healthier. You will be more cognitively cognitively aware of what's going on. Like your brain is sharper when you're exercise. Your you will sleep better. You will think more clearly. Everything's going to be better. You'll perform better at your job no matter what that job is. So yeah, go get after it. Yeah, I I really agree. This is one of those um I think the best thing I ever did for getting good at business was get control of my body. Uh, one to get control of your body, you first have to get control of your mind. That helps. And then there's also this really fascinating thing that happens that when you realize, I showed up every day consistently. I pushed myself to failure. I did things that were hard that were I was very awkward in the beginning and my body changed. I was able to, you know, um, bend over and pick up a weight that when I first came into the gym, I could not do. It's really hard to track when you're getting mentally more capable. It's very easy to see that you're getting physically more capable. And so, and those two things correlate for sure. They correlate. So, when you become more physically capable, you will become more mentally capable. When you become physically more resilient, you will become mentally more resilient. That that is a that is what will happen. That is what will happen for sure. Um, talk to me about fear and compartmentalizing that. So, this idea of get after it. I love that. Again, another thing I think people are intoxicated by with your personality is um, and you've said this many times, but people look at buds and and it is this mental thing of could I do it, right? The number of times I've asked myself whether would I make it. Uh, I think 15% or something make it. Um, so that's part of this. Um, but also just you've been in a situation where bullets are flying at your head and you've had to be calm and detach and step back and tell people where to go and face that I could make a call that gets somebody killed. Um, that you're not playing a game. That on the other end of your gun is a a human whose life you are actively trying to take and victory is killing them. It's surreal. That's something that that operators touch a lot, but the rest of us, man, that that is like the most unfathomable I can't believe this actually happens to people kind of thing. And so the fact that you can control your mind in that situation is unbelievable. How [sighs] how do you control your mind? Is it just exposure? How how do you get Yeah, there's certainly some exposure therapy behind it and and that's one thing I learned once I once I was towards the end of my career in the SEAL teams and I was teaching and I was instructing and I was running the advanced SEAL training. What I got to see was I got to see I got to watch how I could put somebody that doesn't have much experience into a pressure situation and I could watch them fall apart and then I could talk to them. we could rehearse some things and you put them in another pressure situation and they'd be a little bit better and then you do it again, they're a little bit better and usually there would be a moment of sort of a profound moment where I don't know what's a good uh it's almost like riding a bike. You know how you can't ride a bike and then you can that's that's what I feel happens with the ability to detach and take a step back. It's like you can't ride a bike and then you can or you you you can't you never stood up on a surfboard and then you did. It's like that kind of thing. So, I'd see guys get a little bit better and then all of a sudden there'd be a switch that would go and they'd be able to take take a step back, detach, they'd be calm and how do we do that? We put them in those pressure situations repetitively talk them through. Sometimes I'd have to be like there's mayhem going on. It's a training scenario, but there's mayhem going on. There's paintball flying everywhere. and there's explosions going off and I'm looking at you and you're the leader and you got a look on your face. You're totally overwhelmed. And sometimes I would literally say, "Hey, Tom, come here." And I' I'd take you, I'd pull you into the into the corner of a building where there's no paintball's going to hit you. And I go, "Take a breath." And dude, take a breath. [sighs] All right. Look around. Take a look around. All right. What's your next move going to be? And just by doing that, you'd realize, oh my gosh, 25 seconds ago, I was totally focused on that one window over there where I think we're taking fire from. And I had this guy yelling over here, and I didn't know what to do with him. And I I I got someone was calling me on the radio, and I didn't know what that was about. I took a step. I got myself into a spot where I could look around. I took a breath. And now I can see, yep, we need to flank the guy in that window. The wounded guy's yelling a lot, but he's going to be okay. and I need to get my forces consolidated on this building and it would be that clear. So sometimes I would have to kind of hold someone's hand as they're detaching or I'd have to pull them out of the scenario a little bit so they would de facto be detached from it. Sometimes we take a if you were having a real hard time as a leader, I'd be like, "All right, Tom, you you're coming with me as from the instructor viewpoint." And now you're not in the firefight anymore. Now you're looking around like, "Why don't they just go over there?" You and I would literally be standing one foot away from the leader that's supposed to be making the call. And you'd say to me, "Hey, why does why don't they just go over there?" And I'd say, "Well, it's easy to see right now, isn't it?" Yeah, it's so so obvious. Why is that? because your your your subordinate leader that's right there right next to us can't see this most obvious thing. Why? Because he's all emotional. He's all caught up in the scenario. He's panicking. And you since you're not in the scenario, you're one foot away and you can easily see the solution in so can I. So what you need to do, Tom, is you need to learn that when you're in that mayhem, you need to learn to detach, take a step back and look around, take a breath, and then make a call. That's what you're going to do. And that would help guys to have that eureka moment where they went from being a panicked, emotional, overwhelmed human to being a calm, detached, squared away leader. Yeah, I think that's really powerful and um that's something I want to train more in myself. Uh, I think it's something that either I am I have just a mild natural advantage or uh just maybe business has put me in that situation so many times. But I'm very sad that the following is a true story. Um, a couple years ago, Christmas Eve, man, of all times, we were having a party and uh the guy that we were going to play poker and pay a professional dealer. He comes in, he brings a table, all that. Set up the table. I go in the kitchen to get a drink and my wife comes running in. She's like, "You have to hurry. Uh, the dealer's having a heart attack and I come running into the room and the only thing is to do nothing or deal with it. There there's no gunfire or anything. It's just this one person is now in a very bad situation." And it was fascinating to see the different reactions in the room. There were some people that just moved away. the fact that they came to get me instead of dealing with the situation was already like, okay, that's interesting. So, I go into the room and you just go into uh I'm I'm a big believer solutions ultimately are all that matter. So, it's just like, okay, one, we need to assess what's going on. Because I looked at him, I'm like, he's not having a heart attack. I'm like, he's having a stroke. And so, stop, identify, and then you start telling people what to do. You call 911 and come back. I remember being trained on that. Call 911 and come back. back. I don't know why that always stuck with me. Uh and then it was, you know, the person on the call is like, "Hey, you need to start doing chest compressions." And and you just do the thing, but it was I really had this strong impulse in me, I don't want to be dealing with this. And so I had to like step past that. And I needed to have thought a million times before that moment, just always look for the solution. What's the solution? Move towards it. So obviously you have to first know your goal to know what the solution is. Save this guy's life. Okay, cool. Save his life. What now are the solutions in order to do that? But it was interesting to me that there's still this tremendous amount of friction from the moment that my wife came in and said he's having a heart attack. I wasn't like hurrah. I'm not that guy, right? I wasn't like, "Oh my god, this is great. I get approved." What you're just like, I hold myself accountable in this moment to overcoming this friction, becoming solutionoriented, and doing the thing. But I was like, if people don't sort of pre-rehearse, have a plan, train for whatever life is going to throw at you, if they feel the same amount of friction I feel to not wanting to be in a situation where somebody is having a stroke, it's [ __ ] terrifying. Uh they're going to back off. And so you could just see that happen in the room where there was uh a small number of us that had obviously mentally rehearsed these kind of moments and so we handled it. And then there were people for whom their rehearsal was I know who to get if anything ever kicks off and so they acted accordingly. It's very very interesting. And so um how do like for the average person that's never going to be in combat? What are the things that they can do to answer questions like will I show up in that moment? Would I do myself proud? They're never going to know if they'll do themselves proud in buds, but will I be able to do myself proud in moments where they get hard? Like, um, Mark Divine does something Cocoa Row or I don't know. Do you know Mark Divine? I I know who he is. Maybe Seal uh runs a sort of um buds for the average person who just wants to see if they can make it and it's done over three days or whatever. Um, what can we do to better prepare ourselves to know who we will be in moments of difficulty? Do hard things. Whether that's uh, you know, waking up every day and working out, whether that's going to jiu-jitsu class, whether that's going to some kind of environment where there's going to be a stress that you're not used to. What What kind of thing makes you afraid? Oh, heights makes you afraid. Cool. Let's learn how to parachute. Oh, public speaking makes you afraid. Cool. Let's go do some public speaking. Going out of your comfort zone and overcoming the butterflies that are going to be in your stomach and the little mini panic attacks that you're going to have. Go do those things and do them as often as you possibly can. And you will get used to all these little feelings that that that arise when some pressure situation unfolds. And it it's funny you said that you you had like a friction of when your what they came in and said, "Hey, something's wrong." And you went into the mode of like, "Okay, well, we're going to go solve the problem." You that's what you're used to doing. You know, you were the CEO of a company. How many times say the manufacturing there's we got a call from the customer, the the shipping didn't happen. You you dealt with a lot of problems. A lot of problems. And no, they weren't like someone's life was at stake like was in this particular moment. But the process that you go through, we've got a bad situation. Okay, I can run away from it. That's not going to help. I can complain about it. That's not going to help. I can panic. That's not going to help. I can find a solution. That's going to help. That's what I'm going to go do. And so you go out and you do things that are challenging and you will build some muscle memory of what to do in pressure situations so you don't panic. You don't do dumb things. And there's companies out there uh you know Tim Kennedy's got a company called Sheep Dog Response and they do this kind of training. My friend Mike Glover has a company called Fieldcraft Survival and they travel around the country doing events where you're going to put get put in pressure situations. We have an event at Ashelon Front which is we call it the FTS. It's a field training exercise. So we we it's very leadership focused, but it also provides some panic scenarios because we're going to put you into simulated combat situations. We have a really high-speed. It's basically a laser tag system, but it's a really high-speed laser tag system, but we have role players. We have explosions going off, smoke filled air, mayhem going on, missions to go accomplish. And we get to see people panic. People freak out. We also get to see the switch turn where they go, "Oh yeah, I know I can't panic. I know I can't freak out. I know what I need to do is lead. Step up, make decisions. This is how I do it. This is my protocol. Take a step back, take a breath, look around, make a call." We teach people how to do that. That's what we do. So the from a leadership perspective and from an individual perspective, that's why we created a program like that. Field training exercise echelon front. Boom. You go in there, you learn some basic tactics, but it's not a tactical course. It's a course to learn how to handle stress and how to lead in stressful dynamic environments. And when we get done with that, when we when someone gets done with that course where they're they got a hostage to rescue, there's explosions going off, they got they're missing people out on the battlefield, there's down men, they're screaming, there's yelling. They go back to work on Monday morning. And it's like, okay, you something's wrong with the supply chain. All right, talk to me. Talk me through the problem. Let's get a solution. It puts everything in perspective. And most important, they learn a protocol of how to deal with stress and how to detach from that stress and how to lead in those stressful environments. If you like this conversation, check out this episode to learn more. We are being naive, not at least publicly entertaining the possibility that our antagonist abroad would take advantage of our famous lack of security. And you're going to see why we have to talk about genocide. Somebody has to open these topics.