“My Autism Keeps Upsetting People” - Vittorio Angelone

Maybe you are quite Peterson pilled cleaning your room. >> Listen, I read the 12 rules for life book and I found it helpful when I was like 22 and I'm so Jordan Peterson. >> I'm so embarrassed. [laughter] I'm so like spiritually like I don't know something about me and my audience would hate the fact that I really found Jordan Peterson very helpful and made my girlfriend watch it when I was 22 be like look at this guy Kathine Newman's an idiot isn't she terrible I'm so embarrassed by all of that but like he was like helpful and informative and I think it was like self it was self-help really that like 12 rules for life book and I I needed that. I needed someone to go [ __ ] Come on, man. Grow grow up. Get your [ __ ] together. >> Do you think that your audience would guess that you were a previous Jordan Peterson stand? >> Some of them Some of them I think won't be or like wouldn't be like happy or like maybe they'd be surprised. But I think that's where I like to like I try to be honest about that stuff and I like I would like I would like to hear someone be like, "Oh yeah, I found that helpful." And then it went a bit crazy, you know. Um, so I try to be like open about that. I was like a I'm still a dumb idiot guy. >> Mhm. >> This is the problem. I write like like narrative, thoughtful thematic standup shows, but I'm a [ __ ] idiot. Like, you know what I mean? So, it's hard. >> You got spiked. >> I got spiked in Nashville. Listen, allegedly, I don't know, they were like, "We could do a toxicology report on you, but it costs like x,000." And I was like, "Just give me whatever stops me vomiting right now and I'll be okay." But I thought it was like I thought it was just like a really unjust hangover. I was in Nashville. I did a show. I went for a couple drinks afterwards and a game of pool and I was like, "Yeah, I had a couple drinks and then I remember like getting back to the or like my friend giving me a lift back to the hotel and me being like I am [ __ ] trolley right now." Like when did that happen? and then started playing him like Mongolian throat singing on Spotify, which was like that. I mean, I don't know if that's a symptom of [laughter] being spiked >> by a Mongolian. >> Yeah, maybe maybe a Mongolian spiked me. Um, but then I don't remember lots of patches of the evening and I don't remember getting into the hotel room and like going to bed or whatever. And when I woke up, my phone was like in the bathroom, not plugged in, and like all my [ __ ] was like all over the hotel room. [gasps and sighs] >> And I woke up and I just thought it was like a really, you know, when you get a bad hangover, but you don't think you deserve it. You're like, I didn't Well, I wasn't that. >> This is unjust. >> Exactly. It was like, this is not karmically balanced right now. So, I got up and then I like vomited and I was like, "God, that was pretty bad." Did a [ __ ] also pretty bad. And then I was like, "Come on, you just got to get your [ __ ] together." Like I I went I went full Jordan Peters and I was like I just got to tidy my room and I'll be okay. And then I vomited like once every 30 minutes for like the whole until I checked out. And then I checked out of the hotel and had to go to the toilet in the lobby >> and throw up there and I was like this is not this is no hangover I've experienced and I've drank a lot >> in the past. And so the guy, this guy Ian, who was like filming the show and stuff, he was like still in town and he was like, "Do you want me to take you to like an IV clinic?" And I was like, "This is the most like American [ __ ] of all time of like go to some weird like spa where they just hook hook you >> wave sage at you, do a sound bowl." >> And then they were closed. So we were like, "Oh shit." And so we went to urgent care, which I don't really know what that is. Like I don't The American healthare system is like weird. It's not the emergency room, but it's like a step to full >> half a >> but it's also beside a burger restaurant. Like this this country's [ __ ] This country's this is where there should be like a barber shop or like you know, but there's a healthc care facility. So I walked in and I think because I was just being like polite to the woman behind the desk, I was like, "Oh, hi blah blah blah." She thought you were minimizing how serious it was. >> She just thought I was like kind of fine and I like signed in and like just did like persistent vomiting was like my symptom on the thing. And then so I was sat there and like people kept getting called in before me. And then at one point I was like, "Oh, I'm getting that feeling where I'm going to like throw up again." And I was like texting my mom at the time and her actual advice was throw up in the lobby cuz then they'll escalate. They'll see you, [laughter] which is like crazy mom advice of like just throw them on the floor. >> Pretty effective. [laughter] >> And I didn't do that, but it was mainly because the bathroom was like right beside the reception desk. >> It's pretty egregious if the bathroom is within sight. >> Exactly. To just go help. [laughter] >> So your VIP pass. >> Yeah. So, I went into the bathroom and made a bit of a halaloo out of it to the point where I was like, "Okay, they can definitely hear me." >> Oh, you hammed it up. >> I didn't ham it up. I just am a loud vomiter. >> Okay. >> I'm naturally a loud vomit. >> I'm screaming really the whole time. >> I think I'm quite a shy vomiter. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. I like I I don't want to I don't want to make a fuss. [laughter] >> I really don't want to make a fuss. >> I'm making a fuss. Are you? >> I'm kicking up a fuss if I'm throwing up. I'm just I hate it so much. So I sort of walk out. I stick my head out the door like finish vomiting like nothing. There's nothing inside me but it's just like you know the horrible yellow like B awful stuff. So I stick my head out and go oh I like I keep vomiting and they were like they were like yeah we heard. [laughter] I was like I'm really sorry. They were like someone's coming to see you now. [laughter] It's like okay good. So, I went in and they checked my blood pressure and whatever and did the basics and they were like, "Okay, what's happened?" I was like, "Listen, I had a few drinks last night, but this feels crazy. I've thrown up like seven times today and I have nothing left to throw up, but it keeps happening." They're like, "Okay, it feels like you probably had something slipped in your drink. Uh, it's very common in Nashville in like particularly like certain areas of Nashville." And I was like, "That's a crazy thing to like define yourselves by, but like apparently it happens like all the time." And they were like, "Were you like looking after your drink?" And I was like, "No, I was farting around. I was just walking around taking pictures, doing whatever." And my drink was just sat there. And they were like, "Yeah." And they were like, "Were you hanging around any like weird people?" And I was like, "No, I sort of knew people and you know, people I'd worked with." And they were like, "Okay, that's kind of weird." And I was like, "Oh." And then I did start playing pool. And then these like real sort of like redneck guys challenged. They were like, "We'll play you for the table." And I was like, "Yeah, cuz I'm like quite good at pool." [laughter] So I just absolutely tore these guys [laughter] apart. And they got quite like aggro at one point where my buddy was like, "You should you should cool it on the pool thing." >> You beat them so badly that you knew you started a fight. >> Well, I just think cuz I was like in a fun goofy like I just done my show in Nashville. I was having a good I was like laughing when stuff went in and like you know and then this guy came up and was like you okay and I was like yeah and he was like oh just [ __ ] like this redneck and I was like okay whatever blah blah blah blah so I'm not saying >> you were showboating >> yeah maybe right and I don't look I'm not saying those guys definitely spiked my drink but if I had to if I was a betting man my money's on Jimbo >> [laughter] >> which was his actual name. Shout out to >> Jimbo and his wife Peter. >> Jimbo and his like really frightening looking wife. Actually, she was really she from the moment I was like, "Yeah, let's play for it." She was like really angry about it. I don't know what was going on. So, that's the working theory. And I I've eaten like one sandwich and three spoons of porridge in the last like day and a half. I could collapse at any moment. But they stabbed me. They injected my ass with like an anti- vomiting drug and I was like this is nice. >> Sick. >> This is nice. And $200 as well. They didn't [ __ ] me up. I was expecting like American healthcare to get like really like you know cost [ __ ] loads. And $200 is crazy for like one injection or whatever. But like >> certainly so I stopped vomiting and I made my flight to Austin which was delayed by two hours which I actually think was good. I got is this bad? I got assistance through the airport. >> Of who? I just like typed on the app that I needed a wheelchair. >> You got wheeled through the airport? >> You're kidding me. >> I was like, I can't stand up for that long. >> You got wheeled through Nashville airport. >> Yeah. >> They don't ask what's wrong. [laughter] [laughter] I think I said like ankle injury cuz I like did like a month ago. I was getting wheel airports cuz I had [ __ ] up my ankle. >> Uhhuh. >> They don't ask. I know. This is so bad. Like, but it's like a life hack. >> Well, you just click the button. >> You don't need to What? What did you click it when you >> I don't think they're allowed to ask. I don't think they're allowed to be like >> all disabilities are visible. That kind of thing. >> I I'm autistic. Sunflower lanyard. I don't know. [laughter] It's crazy. And I felt like a little bit bad for the person like pushing me through the airport, but I truly think I would have collapsed if I'd like queued for security and all that [ __ ] which feels valid. I didn't tell them that I was like potentially had been poisoned by a redneck and like might you know cuz I don't think they would have let me on the flight. That's why I said ankle injury >> in case you were infectious or something >> or like I think insurance I think if they are if id walked in and be like I think I've been drugged. I don't know with what I can't stop vomiting. I think they would have been like well you might like die on the flight. So like I think that like airlines their insurance >> that's going to be an inconvenience for us. I think that would be a lot of paperwork if I died on the flight. Um, but yeah, got weed through. Pretty chill. It's like >> that actually sounds like you had a nice time. >> I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't [laughter] I was in Nashville airport crying on the phone to my mom cuz I kept shaking. [laughter] I spent too much time practicing pool. [laughter] I've been cursed with my ability to beat a redneck. >> I'm Icarus of the pool world. >> You flew too close to the black. [laughter] >> That sounds crazy. That's what Jimbo said to me. [laughter] >> Yeah. So that's crazy. So I'm now I'm in we're in Austin. It's my first North American tour. I'm in the States for the whole month. And the whole thing was like it's pretty like you know in the states it's pretty much by myself for the whole month. This is like stressful but I'm going to be on top of it and I am now not going to drink for [laughter] the rest of the month. >> Have you been on top of it up until getting poisoned? >> I had a crazy one and this is going to become a standup routine but like no the problem with the standup routine at the minute is nobody believes that it happened. Uh went to LA first that was good fun. A terrible city. >> It's not really a city. It's not a place. It's just roads. >> Mhm. roads with occasional things like I know that is what a city is but it's not it's got nothing tying it together. >> Um and then went to New York and my girlfriend came at me in New York and we were like let's do some like >> you know touristy things. Let's get a bagel. Let's do whatever. >> And uh so it was the day after I landed into New York. Uh we were walking around. We got a bagel >> and then we went to the 9/11 memorial and we were like it was just nearby and we were like that's pretty like you know important to see. And I, this is the bit that people don't believe in audiences. I um I [ __ ] myself at the 911 memorial. [laughter] I turned to my girlfriend and was like, "Oh no." And she was like, "Yeah, it's so sad." [laughter] And I was like, "No, I've [ __ ] my pants. I've [ __ ] my full pants." Um, it was like a short. It was like pretty small, but [laughter] not great. So, this trip so far has actually been defined by your bowels. >> I don't think food in this country is good for you. [laughter] >> It's not food. >> It's not really food. >> I tried to get like a super plain sandwich at the airport in Nashville and it's like this bread isn't bread. This turkey isn't turkey. None of this is food. >> No. That's something that American people, I think, are missing out on. Advanced country, military, technology, AI, all this stuff. Sandwich Technology just has not crossed over from the UK. When you think about they don't understand what the meal deal is. Oh, >> it's a gorgeous institution, >> dude. You know, I found this out because uh Newtonics in the sainsbury's meal deal now. So, >> Oh, congratulations. >> Thank you very much. It's a bit That's kind of a little bit like being uh night. It's like it's getting an OB or an MBE or something. It's not quite a nighthood yet. Um anyway, the average British citizen has 70 meal deals a year. >> That's That is low. [laughter] That is in my opinion that is low. >> I know but that's the average. There's going to be some people from home that you're never going to see a meal deal or whatever. Uh but the fact that you can't get >> I don't even know how to describe the >> institution there this kind almost quasi religion that is the meal deal in the UK to Americans £3 pound50. It used to be £3 and you get like so it's a main, a side, and a drink. But those categories are like slightly I think Bartlett's got his hule in the main section somehow. >> So you can get two drinks. >> Well, Bartlett would of course argue that it's not a drink, it's a meal. But um you know, does have lead in it, so that's fine. So you get like mostly sandwiches, wraps, like >> sushi if you're a fancy one. >> Salads, but it's just pasta. [laughter] Correct. >> There's no vegetables. >> It's pasta, mayonnaise, chicken, and bacon. And they call it a chicken and bacon pasta salad. >> Yeah. With no salad in. No vegetables at all. It's the sandwiches that are the big difference. >> The sandwich is a big difference. >> Where you've got bread that's made from bread and you've got, you know, two cut diagonally as well. And I think when it comes to sandwiches, the increase in the tastiness of a sandwich by cutting it corner to corner. >> Wow. >> Instant what 15% maybe improvement in the taste of the sandwich. I think >> but but what is the possible rationale for that? >> What's the mechanism that it's working on? Is that what you're saying? >> I completely agree. But I don't understand how >> I'm going to give you I'm going to give you pizza toast, right? But well buttered warm toast done nicely. sort of a six out of 10 to six and a half out of 10 toastiness. >> There it is. Just normal piece and you're like, "That was nice. It was a nice piece of toast." And now I >> cut it like that and give it to you. That's a treat. That's a real treat. >> Isn't it nice? Somebody's looking after you. It's the attention to detail. I think it's more difficult to cut something diagonally than it is to do that. >> Even though it's definitely like a machine that does that, but even still, >> it's superior sandwich technology. But then Ireland is a step above the UK for sandwiches >> cuz every shop has a deli counter where they will make you a sandwich. >> Make you a sandwich >> in front of you. >> Proper like baguette like proper bread. Chicken fillet roll is like the big thing in >> in Ireland. >> Chicken fillet roll. >> Mhm. >> You mean the fillet of a chicken like >> So it's like a chicken uh like breaded chicken, >> right? >> Put in like a long >> like gujron type thing. >> Yeah. in a roll in like a baguette and then you can get like anything you want on it and it's like every centra every spa like has a deli counter where they do chicken fillet rolls. It's it's amazing and they don't have it. >> Maybe Ireland has superior sandwich. >> Ireland's top of the sandwich tree. >> You think? >> I would say. Yeah. I'm sure like Philadelphia would like be annoyed with me about that for their like cheese. >> New York might not be too happy either. But uh the other thing that I miss is Sorene. >> Oh, that weird. I've never had that. I think we have an equivalent in Belfast which is called VA loaf. Yeah. Unbelievable. But in malt loaf, dude. And again, corner to corner on that. Most people have no idea where the testosterone levels sit. But what if I told you there was a solution? Something that identifies low tea faster than a high school bully. And it won't cost you all your lunch money. That's where Function comes in. Gives you access to over 160 lab tests, including a deep dive into your full hormone panel. Every result is reviewed by clinicians. Anything out of range is flagged and you get clear explanations with a personalized protocol with actionable next steps. So if something's off, you know exactly what to do about it. Whether you just need to go to the gym more or you need to play Creed louder in your car, Function will tell you exactly where your testosterone and everything else stands. Normally, this level of testing would usually cost thousands, but with Function, it's $365 a year. That's $1 a day to stop guessing with your health and start knowing. And right now, you can get $25 off, bringing it down to 340 bucks. So, get the exact same blood panels that I do and save $25 by going to the link in the description below or heading to functionhealth.com/modernwisdom using the code modernwisdom at checkout. Uh, you mentioned before uh autism, adult autism diagnosis. >> Yeah. Age 29, Brian. Yeah. What's changed since that happened? Anything? >> I don't know. A lot of people who get the diagnosis are like and everything suddenly made sense and I could manage my life and I could, you know, get over these obstacles that I'd always struggled with. But I think it's like for me it felt like an extremely gradual process where like there was it starts with like jokes like your friends just call you autistic basically and then I sort of socially bumped into a lot of people like in a negative way just got some things wrong and to the but then like I would have an interaction with somebody that I thought was like positive and then I would get like a big message the next day saying how much I'd like insulted them or like >> you stepped over some social phauxar that you didn't see. >> I like not I was just like what a nice chat and then the next day they're like you you make me feel like [ __ ] every time we talk. Um and those are just the people who are like >> prepared to reach out. >> Exactly. So I must be doing this all the [ __ ] time. >> You're saying there's a wake of destruction. Wake of autistic destruction. >> I mean there may well be and I just have no idea. >> Completely oblivious. Blissfully unaware. >> Completely no idea. It's so it's definitely not blissful. It's [laughter] it's unaware. I think this is a misconception about autism that we that it's like blissful lack of awareness about people socially. It's that I am constantly so worried that I've upset people, but I have no way to tell if that's the case whatsoever. So, you're just like swinging punches with a blindfold on going like apologizing when you didn't need to apologize and like >> you're missing the mark on both sides. >> I'm [ __ ] it. I'm [ __ ] it in both directions. I'm apologizing when I had no need to apologize. I'm patting myself on the back when I've ruined somebody's day. And that I sort of that made me reach out to a medical professional and go, "Hey, is something there's something going on here?" Um, also I was like a very strange child. I was very anxious. I like had loads of panic attacks when I was like 9 10 11 years old. um ran away from school and like tried to run home and was like just couldn't had to be had to do lessons in like a different room to everybody else just do worksheets by myself. Had to go in through a different entry to primary school like different door cuz I just couldn't deal with like the crowds of people and all this stuff. Um I punched my primary school principal uh cuz I was trying to run away and she and she was trying to stop me running away. How old were you? >> Nine. At what point does a punch become a punch? >> Like at what age? >> Yeah. >> It's like Yeah. It's like a puppy like nip like biting your ankle or whatever. It's like oh that's cute up until the point. >> Yeah. And then it's actually assault. >> I would say like probably the cut off is like 10 or 11. >> Yeah. You just nipped in >> just before you're like inverse Russell Brand >> but then like full [laughter] >> Can we dig into that? Can we pick that apart? I'm inverse Russell Brand. >> Yeah. Because Russell flew very close to the sun but on the legal side and you >> for Yeah. True, true, true. Uh >> Okay. Yeah. >> You know what I mean? So you there was an age cut off that was about to happen and you got in just before it. >> Yes. >> And there was an age cut off that was about to happen and Russell got in just after it. >> Okay. >> Inverse Russell Brand. >> So I was like barely legal. [laughter] [laughter] >> A barely >> a barely legal punch. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was me. >> That's what you were. >> Um, so there was all that and it all sort of added up to me reaching out to a doctor just like my local GP in uh London and they were like, "Yeah, this sounds like worth investigating. Let's do like a phone call." And I had a phone call with like the specialist on the NHS. And they're like, "Great. We'll add you to the list uh the waiting list for the assessment." Um, I was like, "Okay, how long does that normally take?" And they were like, "4 years." And I was like, "Okay, cool." And then I sort of had a bit about it in my last tour show. And as I was going around and touring, I discovered along with my audience that I had a lot of autistic people attending my shows and a lot of autism practitioners attending my shows. So I got five offers across the tour of people to do the assessment for free privately >> cuz they were just at the show and they were like, "Oh, I that's my job and I can just, you know, rather than it costing like two grand to do it, I'll just do it for you." So, I did the one that was closest to London. Went through the whole process. You have like four or five different appointments. You have to fill out forms. My girlfriend and my mom had to fill out forms. >> Character reference. >> Yeah. Just like from your perspective, what does this look like? From your perspective, what does this look like? And then from like my own perspective, what does that look like? Um, and it came back and they were like, you're like a little bit raised in lots of these things, like the traits, but then like incredibly high on masking. So, basically pretending you don't have autism. Um, which basically sort of explains why these aren't as raised as >> they even managed to mask the test. >> But I mean basically and apparently this is like it's a similar reason why like uh women it's much harder to diagnose autism because they're much more concerned with like the group dynamic. So they're much more adept at masking and they're told to mask a bit more or expected to mask a bit more society. So I think I have like girl autism which is like quite exciting. >> [laughter] >> I also think it's like a comedian thing where I mask professionally. >> Yeah. >> Like the job is say something you said a million times as if it's the first time you said it. But that's also like being autistic in the world >> is like somebody asked me this question. I know what I'm going to say because I'm not conversing intuitively. I'm doing a little script that I'm following that I've learned is how people like to be interacted with. So I've like that's what standup is. So I think I'm like just a touring masker which is quite I think that's why the >> but a global masker as well across the rest of your life. >> Yeah, I think so. And then that's a weird feeling to sort of like what does it mean to unmask like I don't want to be rude to people. I think some people get diagnosed and then decide that they can just like >> freewheing [ __ ] >> Be a [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to do that. But I do hope that like maybe the diagnosis and me being like public about the diagnosis means that if I do [ __ ] up socially then people like won't be as upset. Not even for my benefit. >> I've got this autism card here that you're not allowed to be mean to me. [laughter] >> But not even for me. I'm just like please don't take any of this personally. I won't I won't have meant that like you know cuz I I hate upsetting people. Like it's my least favorite thing. >> It is an interesting point. At what point are you culpable for your actions? >> You have to be >> like that guy that had Tourette's at was it the BAFTAs? >> Yeah. [ __ ] everybody that was mean to him. >> [ __ ] every single person that was mean to him about that. I like I was so angry about that whole scenario. I didn't think I was a particularly well-versed person on like Tourette's. But apparently no one in America has ever done even the most bas like what's research like any awareness of what it is whatsoever. And >> we've known about it in the UK. I I don't ever remember a time of not knowing about Tourette's. Like even when I was a kid, I think >> Reggie Yates did a documentary called Super Tourette's. >> Is that Is that >> That's an actual medical term. Super Tourette's. >> And what's that? So their ticks, like their physical ticks are so intense that they like fall down and it's like funny [laughter] and obviously like devastating and debilitating for them, but like I think they should have come up with a different name. >> It sounds desirable. >> Super Tourette's. >> It sounds like what you get if you upgrade if you press the upgrade button when you're adding to the cart. >> Tourette's plus. >> Yeah, it is. It's the It is. It's the value meal. It's a happy meal equivalent. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And do you want a drink with that? Superiz. >> Superized. Yeah. Superize your Tourette's. >> Superized Tourette's. >> Yeah. So, and then so all these Hollywood actors coming out and being like, I think he meant that. Why was that word in his brain? And I'm like, cuz it's the worst thing you could say in that moment. And that's that's the condition. Wasn't that same guy while on the documentary when his dog was about to cross the road was said to his dog like cross the road? Nope. and then his fight not even his interactions with his favorite animal like he's there's no I mean uh Lewis Kapaldi like the pressure of his second album >> I don't know whether he gave him Tourette's but it sort of caused it to emerge >> yeah I think like it it can stress and stuff and like being at the baths as a guy who's like a school caretaker like janitor I hated everybody going oh these poor actors on stage it's like who would you rather be Hollywood elite millionaire on stage having a not nice word. Yeah. A not nice word shouted at you. Or like workingass guy who's just going to go back to like mopping floors >> when he leaves the bafts who has like struggled with a debilitating neurological condition for his whole life. >> And now on the biggest stage he's ever had has displayed it to the entire world. >> Yeah. And also in a room of people at the BAFTAs, they're all supposed to be members of the academy and they are all supposed to have watched all the films. So they should all have seen the film about the guy who shouts inappropriate things. And they were all like, "What is going on? Do your job. Watch the thing for the award you're you're going to." And if you don't understand something, I just he was getting death threats online and at no point did anyone from like the Jamie Fox side of things who like called him racist and all that stuff come out and go, "Oh, hey, like it should have been edited out cuz that's a very embarrassing moment for those guys on stage." >> But like it's not this guy's fault. >> The guy's like got a disability. Sorry. I [ __ ] I've been angry about that though since it happened basically. It's pretty mean to see unfold. Uh weird, isn't it? Sort of social decorum. So saying the right things, behaving in the right way, in the right spaces is so highly >> sought after and and and and that kind of >> deviation from that behavior. like we're okay with disabilities for people for like young kids that need help in very obvious ways, but this one that's socially difficult to deal with. Autism is another one or people that have got um OCD and maybe unable to operate in the world in a way that's convenient for everybody else. It's like we do I I don't want to have to like those ones the difficult conversations of where accessibility meets inclusivity meets like he should be like there was people coming out saying he shouldn't have been at the awards thing and I'm like what are we doing here like you're supposed to be the kind of progressive welcoming. >> You see you're telling me that if there was a person in a wheelchair and there was no ramp they shouldn't have been there. >> [ __ ] them. [laughter] >> Army crawl your way onto the stage. If a person in a wheelchair had won an award and everyone went ah it's too much f >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Just throw Just launch them up. Yeah, [laughter] exactly. Shot put them. Have you got any shop hutters that have done this evening? Shot put that person up there. And what's interesting was um listening to you tell your story about what childhood was like for you and some of those scripts. Uh certainly for me reflecting on my childhood, one of my most common recurring uncomfortable dreams is me doing something >> to another person that I thought was just a bit of fun or I thought was a normal interaction >> to then find out that I've crossed some >> invisible line that I didn't know existed >> and to then immediately feel horrendous about it. The last one of these I had was about two weeks ago or so and it was Yasmin who does the guest booking that got that got you here. Uh we were walking down the street and I had a like like a Gatorade bottle like that that had water in and I thought we were just playing about and I sort of splashed some water at her >> and that turned out to be this huge >> fauxar that I'd done and immediately I felt terrible and then I woke up and I was I was all I was all anxious and I just woke up and that was it. And that's that is a consistent >> theme not only in my life but also in the dreams that I've had for like a very like that is the if you were to pick >> the center of the bullseye of my awkwardness >> in reality. It's me doing a thing and someone being mad at me without me realizing that I'd done it and then finding out. Importantly, >> occasionally you do something in your life, whether it's in work or relationships, where you go, look, this might upset this person, but I'm going in with my eyes open and I like still think this is the right thing to do, >> even though it's going to be like uncomfortable or upset them. And that's one thing, but then like just being so blindsided by it. What do you think? Like are you are you interested in the POS? Like do you think you might have autism? Like I don't want to be one of these >> going to wear your culture as my costume. >> No, but like and God there's enough autistic people that go around diagnosing everyone else. But like >> I like what would you >> I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea. There's certainly some trait. I mean again pathizing anything is just some some form of a spectrum, right? And at some point you breached the threshold for it to be said and now you are >> depressed and now you are anxious and now you are asperous and now da da da da. Uh but I I've always made this joke which is maybe a self-p protection thing. I don't know the difference between being an only child and being autistic. [laughter] >> You're just an unsocialized boy. >> Bingo. >> You weren't introduced to other dogs when you were young. Or maybe that ramps up your predisposition a little bit because there's >> all of the memes around, well you people that have got autism can't hold eye contact or people that have got autism unable to operate socially. They they need to do stmming. They need to da da da da da. And then you realize actually there's a >> infinity number of ways that it can show up. But then also >> people's desire to have some form of mental pathology so that they can have a thing. I think autism is it is sort of the sexy new if you're going to have a mental malady. It's one of the ones that people kind of typically like okay it's like I'm just aut like you know it's it's a word that gets thrown around an awful lot. >> Yeah. And that's difficult. I think it there's [clears throat] a great book there's two great books by comedians about adult autism diagnosis. There's Fern Brady uh strong female character and there's uh Pierre Nlli Why can't I just enjoy things? And the real sort of like shot chaser like Fern is like [ __ ] mad and Pierre is like and here's why I think that [laughter] but it's really really interesting and um Pierre talks about a couple things in that uh where what I where he says like the the terminology like of the word like autism will probably become like defunct reasonably tune because it's a really big umbrella term. >> Like a really big umbrella term. And a helpful thing was the Asbergers category, but you're not supposed to say that anymore cuz he was a Nazi. >> Who? >> Asberger. >> He was the guy that discovered it. >> Yeah. Invented it. I don't know what the word is, but discovered or like categorized it as a thing. He was like a Nazi, so it's not named after him anymore. So the appropriate term now is like autism level one which is what I have which is asberers or what asperers was. >> Okay. >> And then autism level two and the three levels. >> So you're actually a Nazi in this regard. >> I am a Nazi. That's I think that's what it means. Um but uh the in this regard in loads of regards um the and then the level two and then level three and it's basically like how much help do you need to exist in like >> normal neurotypical life. So like level one is like you don't need any outside assistance to like go through your life [laughter] >> like you can cope with the world and then level two is like you might need >> some help like or like you know care or whatever and then level three is like you can't exist in the world. You're basically full-time care all that stuff. And like you know like to have me and then somebody who's nonverbal and hits themselves in the head and like cuts their arms by like scratching so repeatedly. It's sort of crazy that we've got the same diagnosis. >> And I get that. Like, look, >> there's people with cancer and then there's people with cancer. You know, it's like stage 1, stage two, stage three, stage four. It's a similar thing. I guess the autism doesn't develop. Hopefully hopefully um in that direction. [snorts] But I do think it feels strange. What I like about it versus So, I got diagnosed with ADHD as well. I just real punch. >> Yeah. I think it was like buy one get one free or something. >> Package deal. >> Yeah. And uh they I don't like care about that one really as much. Partly because I think it might be overdiagnosed or I would worry that it's overdiagnosed because there's medication for it. So what's nice about autism is there's no like big pharma money that you can follow to go well they would be motivated to diagnose lots of people with autism because then they could sell these drugs or whatever. Whereas with ADHD, they are motivated to diagnose lots of people with ADHD because there is medication for it. >> So that's why I think the autism one feels a little bit >> you have been spending a good bit of time in America. [laughter] >> The big the big farmer conspiracies are already running rampant. >> Yeah. Well, the thing is like the NHS is like an amazing thing that is like being a bit [ __ ] over, but the big pharma still gets their sort of claws in because they're just selling it to the NHS rather than, you know, your sort of >> whether the money comes direct from you or comes from you through your taxes through the NHS and back out. >> There's still money sort of at the end of it. Um, so I would worry about that a little bit with the ADHD diagnosis and I haven't tried the medication for ADHD. >> What is it? It's like speed. >> That's good. >> Yeah. It's like Yeah, >> it's like riddling. But apparently like if you have ADHD, you like it doesn't it like just you can do your taxes. >> That's a real That's a real uh like litmus test. >> That feels like how you should do it. >> Yeah, >> you should say, "Okay, take this." >> And then just see if this person starts bouncing off the walls or if they do sit down and and and read. I also read an interesting thing and I don't know if this is like even nearly scientifically true but there's a massive coorbidity with autism and a thing called Ellers Dan loss syndrome which is like hypermobility and like the soft tissue in your bones and joints and I am like quite hyper mobile like my wrist pops out and like things dislocate on me all the time and I have >> someone that plays a bit of sport >> great yeah wonderful >> terrible nightmare but so yeah that but then some people have said well what if like they are they're not like happening at the same time sort of by chance or whatever. It's just the same thing as in like the soft tissue in your bones and joints. It's also affecting >> you've got you've got bone autism. >> No, but it's affecting the soft tissue in your brain cuz there's different types of tissue in your brain and the connective stuff between all the bits. >> So you've got brain Ella's dandruff condition or whatever. >> I've got hyper mobile brain. [laughter] Although hyper mobile doesn't feel like a good word for how autistic people's brains work. They're not exactly flexible. [laughter] >> Yeah. What happened with this Irish Times article thing? >> Oh, that was interesting. I feel a little bit bad about that. Um, I spoken to the lady who wrote the article and I had spoken to her before she wrote the article. Um, so to fill people in like I there was a write up about a few different things in the Irish Times like me, Sally Rooney, and Ncap, just the big three. Um, and uh, and it within it there was sort of like a couple paragraphs of like a review of my uh, show that they had come and seen. And I'd like spoken to her on the phone about it. And she'd written like really interesting articles about like Ireland has an incredibly high GDP and is a very wealthy country, but the public service is like our dog [ __ ] Like public transport's really bad. There's no national health service. There's like this, that, and the other. Whereas we have the whole point of this like letting all these corporations come in to Dublin and have their offices there >> is that you do make some money off them and then that goes into like >> you benefit from that north of the border. >> Uh no >> right. >> No, but like the whole um and I think she's really interesting. I think she's really clever. >> Uh but when she wrote about my show, she said that like it was unapologetically local and like if you don't get the references, that's your problem. and she like coded another review that gave me two stars at the fringe of someone who clearly just like didn't get the show at all, which is one of my favorite reviews actually, the two star one. It really made me laugh quite a lot. Um, but I just like she'd phrased it in a way that I was like, "Oh, that's a bit annoying." like this is quite a big like newspaper and if I were someone that didn't know who Victoria was and I read that I would think that's just like it's a bit of a stereotype of Northern Irish comedians that we just do the you know it's funny cuz it's local thing of going >> and also it's inaccessible which means if I was maybe thinking that I was going to buy a ticket and like well I don't speak Belfast. >> Yeah. just like whereas in the show like that was the point I made when I did like a post about it on Instagram being like I you know wrote this show in London, trled it all around England, did it at the Edmure Fringe, did it in New York, I've now done it in America and in the article she said like I refuse to explain myself but I like truly don't like I I do loads of expositioning like expl and that's like the fun of the show is like going hey this place I'm from is a bit [ __ ] up here's why here's this here's that here's this weird quirk about it and like opening it out to the is like the sort of the half of the point of the show that I've written and I was just like a little bit annoyed. So, I just was like, "Oh, you know, I'll just post a little thing on Instagram." And this has happened a couple times recently, and this is like I think this don't know if this is an autism thing, but like maybe where I just think I'm like having a little bit of fun or like just informing people of something like my run of shows in Belfast, one of the nights, uh, like 20 people arrived 30 minutes late and I like asked the audience. I was like, "Oh, like is it unclear on the website what time this starts?" And they were like, "Yeah, kind of." Um, so in the interval, I just went on my on Instagram and did like a black square, white text and was like, "Oh, 20 people just arrived half an hour late for my show. Um, for the rest of this week, doors are this time. Shows this time. Chef the mats are this time. Show this time. Thanks." And it's gotten like more views than most of my standup clips. I think because people think I'm being like tatty, really [ __ ] rude or whatever, but it was just like here are the facts of the situation and here's how I can help. And then I think with the Irish Times, I was like just trying to do a little ah I didn't like the way this person phrased themselves about my show. And then uh it like just blew up in like a kind of mad way where it has like 40,000 likes or something and then some people going, "I think you've misread the article." And I but I agree. She was trying to compliment me in the article, but I just don't I don't I I don't think it came across in a way that was like nice. So, I tried to do a little post about it. And then she reached out and was like, "Oh, I think you've kind of taken me out of context." And I was like, "You and me both, sister. Like, you know, [laughter] we're kind of It was a funny phone call. She was like, "You going to apologize?" And I was like, "Are you like we both pissed each other each other off? >> [ __ ] standing armies here. >> We're both probably in the wrong a little bit." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And didn't phrase ourselves perfectly. And I maybe shouldn't have put her name like in the screenshot I kept her name and like the article, but I'm also like your name's in the newspaper beside where the article is. Like it's not like it's hard to find out who wrote the article. But then the problem with the internet is it's just full of cuts, isn't it? So like people sent her like horrible messages on Instagram and stuff and I was like I like I don't know how much responsibility I need to take for my audience but like I'm sorry that that happened. that wasn't my intention. And like, you know, we're like friendly enough now and just have a sort of agree to disagree thing on that in that >> Mhm. >> I think she didn't phrase herself well. She thinks I didn't phrase myself well. And like I don't know, like it's very easy as a comedian to do this whole like [ __ ] everybody. I don't [ __ ] care. And if somebody has a go at me, whoa, I'm just a comedian or whatever. Like, >> but I don't like that's not how I like to exist in the world. Like I upset somebody. So I reached out to them and had a phone call and was like, "Hey, let's [ __ ] talk this through. We might not agree at the end of the conversation, but I have a half apology each." >> Yeah, maybe even. I don't think either of us really apologized, but it was just like, "Okay, I sort of understand where you're coming from. You sort of understand where I'm coming from. It's nice." You might not believe me, but this is what peak sleep optimization looks like. I'm not talking about the night gown. That's just for sex appeal. I'm talking about my eight. The eightle pod 5 comes with a smart cover you throw on your mattress that actively cools or heats each side of the bed up to 20 degrees. 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[laughter] It's been kind of fascinating to see and I was thinking about what would be the difference if it had happened in the UK cuz uh >> I don't know from >> I've been in the US for four years now, but obviously still listen to a lot of you, listen to a lot of Finn, listen to the Screen Rock Boys, you know, listening to Yeah, I've said to you before this is my it's my way to >> tap back into a little bit of British culture. It sort of reminds me that Jaffa cakes and the inbetweeners and you [laughter] know like Wayne L still exists like it's very important for me to have my cultural way >> the three pillars of the UK >> correct cakes in between and Wayne >> wow [laughter] >> it's true um but I was thinking cuz you guys did a roast recently maybe not you know not Netflix and Kevin Hart or whatever but and then what's happening with whatever we want to call it like British comedy now Uh it seems like the new what I'm seeing is a new sort of half generation that's stepping through which have been mostly borne out by the internet although everyone's done a million years of standard. I'm aware that everyone's driven to like woking and [ __ ] house. Exactly. Like done all of those things. Like they've done that for a long time and now they've just burst on the internet, but from >> getting public awareness, people are just starting to break through and that's really cool. And it feels like there's this next sort of wave >> that's that's that's on its way, which is real exciting. But to see the number of different factions and maybe this is just because America is such a big country >> and so many people hate each other and it's very contentious. >> Uh but >> it's like a an earthquake occurs. This big thing happens and then there's all of these aftershocks >> that go on afterward. So then Chelsea Handler's gonna go on Don Lemon's podcast and she's gonna talk about this and then Shane's gonna talk to Matt and they're gonna say this thing and then Tony, I don't know whether he's piped up yet, but he's gonna and everyone's waiting. It's almost, you know what it is? It's almost like >> someone's had a boxing fight and then you're waiting for the post-fight press conference. >> Yeah. >> And you're waiting to hear, well, you know, I just wasn't on form this evening. The training camp was great, but tonight I just wasn't the bad or he missed weight. I can't believe we've had to pay the purse. like then we need to run it back and >> I don't I haven't seen that level of cattiness in the UK. I don't know whether it's not big enough for the factions to go, whether I'm just not paying enough attention, whether there's not a large enough pie for everybody to be worried about that. You all need to keep in friends because like the likelihood of you bumping into someone is probably higher than it is in in the US. this enforcement mechanism of I just don't want to have to face I don't have to bump into you and feel like this unsaid stuff like you and this journalist lady maybe or maybe there's more decorum more politeness I don't know I just I was thinking about it because a few clips popped up of your guys's roast from a little while ago and then the Kevin Hart one and I was comparing the two and I thought it was kind of interesting about how uh yeah the the the difference in the postfight press conference. Well, I think like the roast thing is such a big like it's been in American culture for a long time. Like the Don Rickle stuff, it's much older in this country than it is in the UK culturally whereas cuz like we've like you could very easily I don't know if he would do it but like you could do like a roast of Jimmy Carr. >> Mhm. like in the UK on Netflix, but whe like you know whether that would cut through in the UK or what that was and you know that was the Have a Word podcast uh did that roast that we did in the UK and I think like it didn't it's sort of people who've been on their podcast and we all have our own followings and like and it was also just on their Patreon and clips are just going out as like clips but like I don't know the roast thing's fun I think it's become like reaction has become become such a big part of culture maybe particularly in America >> where it's like this person reacts to this thing. It's half of YouTube is videos that have gone back and then people just watching those videos. Did it start with two girls one cup? Maybe >> it might have. >> That was patient zero >> of reaction cuz like there's more videos of people watching Two Girls One Cup than obviously the one video that is Two Girls One Cup. >> Uhhuh. >> You know what I mean? Like there's all these people being like, "Oh, that's [ __ ] disgusting." And I think like I don't know. I thought a lot of that roast stuff was like they're all funny jokes. I saw all the like lots of the jokes at the Comedy Store the week of cuz everybody was like practicing their jokes. I was at that crazy night at the Comedy Store where Chappelle showed up and then brought on Gillis and then brought on Louis C and then brought on Chris Rock and then brought on uh Kanye West. Kanye West was at the comedy store. >> So I it was the day after I landed in LA. I went to the uh I didn't have anything to do on the Sunday night like the day before the Netflix is a joke festival started >> and I was like I'll just go watch like the open mic at the comedy store to like I like to do that when I arrive in a place I've never been before like see some like really bad standup comedy >> to like >> picked a great night. >> Well I well I well because the problem with the comedy store is the open mic becomes the proper show. Um, and I just as like a confidence boost, wanted to be like, let's [ __ ] watch some [ __ ] people. And to be fair, they were [ __ ] and uh was sort of enjoying it. And I'd been there for like [snorts] maybe an hour when the proper show started and then they started bringing on people. But the problem is I arrived and was like tried to do like I I don't want to be like again I think didn't know what the social norm was but walked up to the door was like, "Oh, hi. I'm a comedian in town for the Netflix festival and I was just hoping to watch the show." And they were like, "Yes, $20." And I was like, "Okay, that's like fine. Whatever. Give them 20." I was like, "I don't think Okay, that's fine. Give them $20." And then they're like, "Okay, put your phone in this little bag, blah blah blah." Then they walk me through and sit me in the front row and I'm like, "This is this is silly that I'm here." But like, cuz I'm not a great laugher at like a comedy show. I don't know. Like I'm okay, but like not the worst, but I sort of just sit there and like quietly enjoy and analyze it cuz I'm so like in the weeds of what it is. >> Yeah. >> And uh but I'm sat at the front in the corner >> and like nearly every comedian on like the main show referenced the fact that I wasn't laughing. Like this guy [ __ ] hates it. >> Not knowing that. >> Yeah, I was loving it. I was having a good time. Paulie Shore called me gay for his whole set. Um [laughter] which was like quite fun. Called me a gay Nazi. Um, it was like fun. Um, and then, uh, yeah, and then I noticed the security going around and taking people's Apple watches, even though they'd already got everybody's phones, and like putting those in pockets, and I was like, "Oh, somebody somebody famous is about to walk on." >> And um, that's when they brought Chappelle on and then he brought on all those people. So, I saw a lot of those roasts and it's so funny. the one that's gotten like Gillis in trouble on the internet or whatever or the one that Chelsea Handler's kicking up kicking up a fuss about. Like that's the one when Gillis was on I was like, "Oh, I'm not a bad audience member." >> Like [laughter] >> I just have a high bar. >> Yeah. I was just folded in half laughing. It was unbelievable. >> Yeah. >> And um yeah, the joke about Kevin Hart is so short they're going to have to lynch him from a bonsai tree. That's the one I was like recounting to people is the best one I'd heard that I was really excited to see on Netflix. And that's the one that everybody's like, I can't believe he [ __ ] >> You don't make jokes about lynching. >> Yeah. >> Chelsea Handler said lynching's worse than rape. >> I mean, I don't know why we're doing a league table. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> I think it's not a competition. >> I think they're both bad. >> Yeah, it's not a competition. >> I think they're both really bad. I it's just it's interesting to see this fallout and to think h these people are on stage to try and achieve the same thing like to have a good time supposedly to have a good time. >> I think that's that's a misunderstanding people have about roast is some people think it's like a competition and like somebody wants to win and somebody want like very American. >> Yeah. But even roast battles I'm like this is a double act. You're like that's how you should view it and that's a dance partner than a fight. It's an ensemble show and you're trying to perform for other people. You're not trying to just be mean. You're trying to say really funny things about your friends and colleagues and famous people and stuff. And I think like yeah, I don't know. Like I try not to get caught up in this like everybody's too offended nowadays. Everybody just has too much of an opinion nowadays. It's like, oh, you didn't like it. [ __ ] >> And an infinite number of opportunities to talk about it and broadcast it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone has their own little platform >> and an incentive to say things >> and it's hard to [ __ ] not. Like, you know, I'm on a podcast right now. This is a big podcast and I could give my [ __ ] hot take on the roast of Kevin Hart and it could be a clip and it could do well and whatever, but like I liked it. It was a bit long. Some people didn't do great, but they're actresses, not comedians. So, what the [ __ ] do you want? >> There we are. >> That's clip it. >> That's a nice, [laughter] >> you know, like there's >> the most lukewarm take that we can so much like so many people going, "Oh, you should do a post about this. You should do a C to camera video about this." No, I've written the show that I've spent loads of time on and that's what I'm, you know, there is this there is definitely a sense that comedians are like uh ammunition bullets in the chamber of one particular perspective or another that this thing has happened and we need someone to comment on it. And we know that if we try and get someone who's too serious, yeah, it's going to come across as kind of stodgy and it doesn't really work on the internet, but we've got this guy and we think that this guy mostly agrees with us. Yeah. So, if we can make him aware of this thing, we can kind of point him >> like a rifle and then you can you can pull the trigger and he'll he'll do something and that'll take down. I've been kind of obsessed with this this idea that I heard this week of a cringe cancellation. So, you can cancel somebody because they did something illegal. You can cancel somebody because they said something reprehensible or whatever it is. But there's a much more penicious type of cancellation which is I think what people are attempting to use comedians for which is I want you to make this person's brand equity so toxic to be associated with Wow. >> that they become cringe canled. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably quite powerful as an idea. I wonder who would who would I who was an example of someone who you think has been like cringe canceled. Somebody made a joke about them that was so funny. >> Uh Shetty and Bartlett got close to it when you and Mike did that clip. That's the canonical example. >> Wizards of Nothing. >> That was the one. >> That's true. That's one of my favorite >> that that went Interstellar. But that's what that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about, which is like if if if >> and this maybe not even it's done in advance. we're going to try and say this thing to make it so uncool or whatever. But for the most part, like uh a lot of criticisms around Russell Brown, this is a this is a two-pronged assault, right? The real cancellation, but also the cringe cancellation which comes in because a lot of the time if someone's >> uh virtue >> gets chipped away at, that opens up the opportunity for, oh, maybe the momentum's slowing, which means that we can also get in there and do the and do the cringe thing, too. But it's not always prefabricated. I'm not saying that every single time, but that these things can happen by accident >> or they can be uh someone can try to construct them. But either way, if you make it basically >> uncool, >> embarrassing to like >> to listen to someone that is >> you know what the remember the R not number from COVID like for every person that gets infected however many more people. So for instance um the psychology of money book by Morgan Hel my friend for every person that buys the book another 1.2 2 people buy the book. >> Okay. Wow. Yeah. >> Because they they like it so much and it's so widely applicable and managing your money is such an important thing that the total addressable market is like 8 billion people. So they d So every month I think I'm still right on this. Every month since it launched like 3 years ago, it sold more copies, which is [ __ ] insane. >> Well, that's the that's like books, word of mouth is like the only way to sell books. >> Yes. >> Like there's you can put you can't put up a billboard of a book. Like nobody [ __ ] cares. [clears throat] >> I don't care. But if you say, "Dude, you need to read this." Or better, "I bought it for you, so there it is." >> Money, right? Literally. Um, >> but if you can do the opposite of that, if you can make the R not number less >> that for every person that sees this thing, >> fewer people want to be associated, you know what I mean? It's this sort of negative. >> I listen to J Sherry's podcast, so you don't have to. [laughter] Well, I think uh uh uh um uh Brian Calli, good friend, Fighter in the Kid, that has been on the receiving end of this. That is a real difficult spiral to come back because how do you reverse engineer someone that's having a that that is saying this is not something that you should listen to and because I'm saying that you shouldn't listen to it, fewer people want to listen to it, which means D. >> It's very human. And then if you try to push back against that, it's just more cringe and more cringe and more cringe. It's a horrible sort of spiral to get yourself into. >> But it's like I think it's a worry of like social isolation, isn't it? >> Of like it's cringe to be into that. It's like, oh, better not. >> Yes. Well, >> it's like that um Bill Burr joke about uh roller skating. Do you know he said like roller skating was massive until that one homophobic joke in the ' 90s and then everybody put the roller skates in the bin, which is what's the hardest thing about roller skating? Telling your dad you're gay. >> [laughter] >> Okay. So, yeah, it's like a roller skating cancellation. That's exactly what I mean. That's precisely what I mean. But this it can happen for anything, right? It can happen for bands. It can happen for TV stations. It can happen for what >> and overexposure is a big thing I think for like actors as well >> where people are just sick of seeing somebody. >> Who would be an example of that? I think Nick Cage was probably not far off it at one point, but then actually went through so far he kind of did the full horseshoe that he full circled without being properly The Rock is actually the canonical example of this. And then it seems to me like he's trying to do another he's trying to do a a rebrand with being edgy, swearing more, less familyfriendly, uh, and the Kevin Hart roast thing. >> Yeah, cuz that was that felt like, oh, cats out of the bag with saying [ __ ] The rock said it, >> you know what I mean? Like the rock is the overt window. >> That's exa that is exactly what my friend George said precisely. He's like, "Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] The rock's there." >> Yeah. >> That is Yeah. He's as Hollywood as Overton windowy as you can get. >> Yeah. I don't know if that's a good thing. >> That The Rock is The Rock is the center of culture. >> Yeah. That doesn't feel great. That doesn't feel like all of the generally accepted opinions are represented in enormous sort of freak. Like he is a freak, you know what I mean? [laughter] >> Pisses and bottles on set and stuff apparently. >> I didn't hear about that. That's interesting. >> Cuz he's working hard, Chris. >> Uh, [laughter] that's what I need. That's what I need. I need one of those down here to show just how hard I'm working. >> A little catheter. >> That'd be cool. That'd [laughter] be cool. Yeah. Uh, I I don't know. It it's very surprising to think how far back would you need to go for that roast to not be allowed on the internet? Three years, four years maybe. >> As in the Netflix roast allowed on the internet. >> Oh, sorry. Allowed allowed >> on Netflix. Yeah. >> Um, >> shows how much I've seen it online. >> But then it's just cycles, isn't it? Isn't it just pendulum swinging and stuff like that? You know, if you look at the Dawn Rickles roasts >> Mhm. >> I [snorts] mean, you see racist jokes like talk to Dawn Rickles. >> But I mean, you couldn't have put that out in 2020. >> Yeah. People went a bit mad. >> But what when was at what point would that have been allowed? This year, one year ago, two years ago, three years ago, cuz it wouldn't have been six years ago. >> Pretty recent. It's probably one or two really. >> Yeah. And I try not to like I don't know pay much heed to that stuff like what is allowed, what isn't allowed. It's >> Is that because you're purposefully not trying to be an edge lord? >> Yeah. Well, I'm purposely trying not to come across as an edge lord. I'm not saying things because they're edgy. Aside from the fact that you have to say things that create tension in the room to be a stand-up comedian and like, you know, if if you're in a topic that people aren't comfortable with, then you can get a nice laugh at the end of it. But it's not just for the sake of being edgy. >> Well, that's something everyone's talking about at the moment, which is how often are the jokes funny and how often is it just a forbidden sentence? >> Yeah. I mean, America, having been like around America for a few weeks, like like there is something a little bit embarrassing about some of American comedy where it's like if you have a joke that doesn't work, if you just stick a slur at the end, people will clap >> because they think you're like fighting this good fight to like >> It's a right-wing equivalent of we don't like that orange guy. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. It's all just clatter and it's all really really boring and pandering and sort of nonsense. Like a big thing with my to show that I'm touring at the minute is like I don't think anybody uh should be comfortable the whole time, but for different reasons. Like I think some people who might lean more towards the right or be more there for the edgier dark stuff, they'll be uncomfortable because I'm like reasonably vulnerable in the middle of the show and sincere at points and talk about difficult things personally. But then the the people who like that vulnerable narrative thematic stuff will be uncomfortable with some of the jokes that I make later on. And it's just like yeah, you want to stretch your audience. You don't want to like give them what they want. And I think a lot of American comedians are big into getting big rounds of applause for being saying naughty words. >> It's like, do you know when you're like 12 and you found out what a female dog is called and all your mates are like, "Oh my god." Like, you can say [ __ ] like you can call it a [ __ ] cuz it's a [ __ ] That feels like what a lot of American comedy is at the minute where it's like we're allowed to say this now. It's like >> naughty. I don't know what what's happening with the the vulnerability side, but there's definitely a performative there's a po performative element of both. There's a performative element of pushing beyond what is allowed. This is the this is the open window I'm going to push on that side. But then you also create the incentive to perform in the other direction which is to just have endless amounts of vulnerability. Like I heard this term recently speed running relatability. Someone trying to like hurry their way through >> just trauma dumping on you. >> Yeah. In a in a desperate attempt to be like I am a real person. Let me show you how much of a real person I am. >> Yeah. And uh that also is performative and that also has the potential to be cringe. But when authenticity is uh incentivized cuz people people seem to like that, people seem to resonate with that. What you end up with is a world of people trying to work out how to reverse engineer authenticity that genuinely looks authentic >> but doesn't have to be authentic. >> Like it doesn't have to be sincere. It just needs to appear authentic. >> It just needs to align with whatever your brand is. and whatever your stick is, >> your Russell Brand. >> Oh, yeah. Whatever sort of whatever people want to hear from you. Like I think that's a big thing with a lot of comedy audiences. They want to know what angle you're coming from from the start, you know, particularly in America. I think it's like nobody in America is American. Everybody I'm Italian or I'm Irish or I'm this or I'm that. It's like and then all their jokes are filtered through that lens where I sort of am slightly averse to that where it's like I just [ __ ] tell you what I think it's nothing to do with me being Irish. None of these things that define me entirely. I'm not just Irish. I'm not just autistic. I'm not just Italian. I'm [ __ ] none of those things really. Like this episode is brought to you by Whoop. According to my Whoop, I've tracked nearly 2,000 days of my life. And the thing that still gets me is that I could have predicted almost every bad day before it happens. That's because Whoop gives you a complete picture of your health every single day. 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Right now, you can get the brand new Whoop 5.0 and that 30-day free trial by going to the link in the description below or heading to join.woop.com/modernwisdom. That's join.woop.com. whoop.com/modern wisdom. You built a show around a clip of a 10pin bowler. Victor, >> what is it about that clip that made you so fascinated with it? So, what's interesting is I So, the show is called Who Do You Think You Are? I am. The Tempin Bowler is Pete Weber. Uh, who you might have seen on the internet shouting, "Who do you think you are? I am." And I knew when I was like working towards the show that it was going to be a show about identity and how people perceive me and how I perceive myself. And I just thought that was like a funny meme title for that show. >> But as I was writing the show and performing the show, I realized that like loads of people hadn't seen the clip, which is crazy to me cuz in my mind it goes viral like once a month to a crazy level. Um, but like most people I performed to on the tour hadn't seen the video at all. So I had to like write an explanation of the video at the start of the show, which was a [ __ ] nightmare, but like actually very fun and like exciting. Like a fun bit and a fun thing to explain. Um, and then as I was working on the show, I was like, "Oh, this is like I think he's me like in the show." Like I I didn't sit down being like I'm going to write a show where I sort of in the subtext of the show I am this professional bowler who is like kind of my hero because of this clip. Like it just sort of became evident to me as I was talking about my experiences of that last couple years of like coming across very arrogant to other people, pissing people off without realizing I was pissing them off and then trying to refind a bit of that swagger having like put myself in a bit of a box and avoided that for a while >> and like >> like doing that sort of like wrestling thing and Pete Weber's a big wrestling fan of like the heel turn of being like [ __ ] you. This is like a fun thing to play with of like steering into this kid of being like I'm arrogant and therefore like you know Pete Weber is the bad boy of bowling which is like a very funny thing to be like it's a crazy thing to be the bad boy of but so standup comedy like it's a very embarrassing sort of weird art form kind of and it's like so yeah it just came out of it um naturally and I was really annoyed cuz he lives in Nashville but he was away when I was doing my show there and I was supposed to do my that show about him in Nashville and I really wanted to do it for him and I don't know if he's watched it. He follows me on Instagram and I did message him being like, "Oh, hey, this special came out on YouTube and he was like, "Yeah, man. I'm going to watch it this week." Then he hasn't replied since, but I don't know if he just really didn't like it. [laughter] >> What was the uh putting yourself in a box thing like regressing back and then coming back out? I'm interested in that. So, the story from that uh show is like I a clip of my podcast got screen recorded and sent around lots of comedian WhatsApp groups uh where I was saying talking about having unexpect having an unexpectedly good run at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. And I was like, "Oh, people keep telling me I'm the guy this year. Like, it's my year to be the guy. I'm the [ __ ] guy." And I was saying that I was finding that really stressful. I was having lots of panic attacks. Like, how am I going to live up? These weren't people who'd seen the show. They just heard the buzz or whatever. And I was like, how do I live up to whatever this is? >> Kind of the Louisis Kapali effect. >> Yeah. Of just like, God, like I can't I mean on a much smaller scale, but like that kind of thing. >> And then >> so I was being made fun of, but like they cut off the podcast clip out of context where it's just me going, "People keep telling me I'm the [ __ ] guy this year." And that and that got sent around. And then people would come up to me during the festival and be like, "Oh, it's the [ __ ] guy." And I'd be like, "Oh, it's happening again." cuz I didn't find out [laughter] I didn't find out about the WhatsApp groups until a month after. So, I'd had this month of my life that I was like, "This is the best month of my career so far. So exciting. Really proud of what I achieved." And I had a really fun time with lots of different comedians. Like, it was difficult at points, but I had a really fun time. >> And then a month later, all of that was like, "Oh, fuck." Like, everybody was making fun of >> the veil got lifted >> behind my back. >> It's like my throwing water on Yasmin dream. >> Yeah. It's that >> I thought we were all having fun. I thought this was a good time. >> Yeah. and everybody just thought I was like a wanker, which is like truly like if I had been sent that clip of another comedian, I would have like ripped into them endlessly because it's like funny and I get how it came across. But I think for fear of that happening again, there was like maybe a year and a half, two years where I like tried to put a lid on like bit of the self-promotion, a bit of the like >> bravado. >> Yeah. That stuff which I think is like part of my like has always been part of my approach to comedy. But from doing that show and touring that show, like building that part of myself back up and being slightly less ashamed of like, yeah, I'm like ambitious. I want to like like do lots of cool stuff. And I I think I can be really good at standup comedy. And like >> the reason I do standup comedy is I think I can >> I think I can be one of the best in the world at it. And I didn't have that when I was like a musician or whatever. But I I felt like it was standup comedy. I was like I'm not saying definitely and it's all subjective, but I was like I think I can be one of the best in the world at this. So I've kind of been working on getting my mojo back in that sense. And you kind of have to cuz I tell you what's hard to do without any bravado is promote a standup comedy tour on Instagram >> authentically. >> Yeah. To be like, "Hey, come see the show." It's like it's fine. >> It's not going to work. And there's loads of comedians going online and go, "Oh, I [ __ ] hate doing this self-promo stuff." And I'm like, >> "Yeah, but >> that's the job. I'm sorry. You're sort of in marketing, >> but you're also going to be sad if you only play to a half filter." >> Exactly. >> So, like you you >> Yeah. I mean, that's something else that really resonates with me. Uh I think certainly from childhood, maybe this is working class, you know. I'm from Stockton, right? Stockton on TV. >> [ __ ] It's I I [laughter] I've I've tried to put across just how horrendous the place is. >> There's a beautiful theater. >> Yep. >> And then everything else, >> correct, >> is awful. >> Yeah. You've played in Stockton? >> Yeah, I've done the arc in Stockton. >> I I I went to go and see that what's that [ __ ] World War I um play about a horse. >> Warhorse. >> You stupid. [laughter] >> It's like my dream. >> You said all of the words. It's like my dream all over the world. >> World War I play about a horse. >> Sorry. That was so mean of me. But that [laughter] was close. >> What's that book about the jungle? [laughter] >> [laughter] [laughter] >> Anyway, I went to go and see that in Arc in the Ark in Ark [snorts] >> um for a good while. I don't know whether it's just a a British thing, northeast of the UK, whether it was you need an amount of charm to be able to carry off >> bravado or ego or like confidence. There's definitely the tall poppy thing of don't get too big for your boots. I mean, [ __ ] me. How many times I know's got that like >> notions is what we call it. He's got notions as in you have notions that you're somebody. >> Oh, >> and if you're accused of having notions, that would be a bad thing. I think I would be accused of having notions. >> Too keen. don't know your place. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's still poppy. It's It's the exact same thing. >> You're right. I like that. Well, I don't like it, but you know what I mean. Um, >> and what I learned as being an incredibly unpopular kid in school, highly undersocialized, who played cricket, >> so like, you know, just in case I was going to make it worse on myself, >> you play cricket at a moderately high level and wear whites all the time. Uh, what I learned was if you really aggressively downplay what it is that you've got going on, if you don't talk about your ambitions, if you don't sound like you're too big for your boots, I think I reverse engineered that a lot of people find you more likable in that way >> that they don't see you as a threat. It >> It's not quite the same thing as humility. It's like it's it's kind of like performative humility in a way. >> It's makeness, isn't it? It's correct. Yeah, >> that's a good way to put it. Yeah. >> Well, they are going to inherit the earth according to the Bible. >> Jordan Peterson would agree. >> Yeah. >> Uh and but it's it's not genuine meekness. It's more a fear of judgment where you're I'm not going to I won't say too much. I won't do too the the you know. >> You know what changed this for me? The movie Coach Carter. >> I don't think I've ever seen that. >> Brother, what is the point in talking to you? >> You have to have watched Coach Carter. >> I haven't. What's it about >> basketball? So Samuel L. Jackson is a basketball coach. >> Okay. >> In a sort of impoverished neighborhood, Richmond, the Richmond Oilers. And there's this recurring thing where he asks a player, Teemo Cruz, what's your deepest fear? And he like refuses to answer and then he like just but it keeps coming up. What's your deepest fear? What's your deepest fear? And then when Teemo Cruz, I think like a family member of his gets like shot, but he's like he turned his back on the team because he didn't want to go to class. He didn't want to do all the strict like classic sports movie stuff like you have to have this GPA, you have to turn up, you have to blah blah blah >> and like be respectful, wear a tie, all that stuff. He like stormed out, but then he had like really horrible family stuff. And then he got back into the team and blah blah blah blah blah. Really dramatic moment in the film. Uh he stands up and says our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. It's that we are powerful beyond measure. >> It is it is um it is not our darkness but our light that scares us the most. And it's this poem that already exists. I can't remember who it's by but he does the whole poem and like like I think at some point in my life I was like >> yeah you know if you shine your light it emboldens other people to shine theirs as well. >> And I think >> yeah it's so easy to be like that doll poppy thing. And >> when do you think you got over that? Cuz it's like you're probably a very good example of that of like >> being like I'm going to interview people [snorts and gasps] >> like there's a level of like who the [ __ ] are you and why would we >> Well, yeah, for sure. I think to be honest, I think I'm still playing it. I'm still certainly still downplaying whenever I get asked about what's going on. Like I did this big interview with um for like Highife magazine which is the British Airways thing. I did something in the Times recently. I did a bunch of others. And if you read through it, it sounds like it sounds like a comedian try it sounds like a very very bad comedian trying to do self-deprecating. Like every single line is trying to be self-deprecating >> because well, you know, >> I I I >> being from the northeast of the UK, I didn't have particularly big dreams anyway, so it's nice that I've surpassed them. Some [ __ ] like that. Like at every single step of the way >> rather than like you have goals. >> I'm the eighth biggest I'm the eighth biggest podcaster in the world. Yeah. >> Right. Like I I just that's something that I can >> And also you're not done. You want you're annoyed that you're eighth. >> Yes. >> You want to be seventh or sixth or fifth or fourth or third or maybe. But >> like >> that's okay. Like it's okay. >> It's certainly still there. It's certainly still there. And I think it gets to a point where it actually starts to seep inside of your own ambition >> a little bit and you go, I'm believing my own reverse hype >> in a way. Yeah. I'll just I'll I'll sort of keep it where it is. I don't want to make waves, get too big for my boots, have notions, you know, be a keynote, etc. And uh like trying to work through that I think is is a really interesting challenge. I I to be honest I still think it's there like I'm doing the thing in spite of it not because of it. >> Yeah. I mean like in a way it's a good thing to keep an eye on. >> Not to have a runaway ego. >> Yeah. And I think that's the sort of what the ego the super ego the like all of those things balancing each other out. And like you got to keep a little bit of it in check, but you just got to know what it is and when it's useful. When is ego useful? And when are you bragging versus being like grateful for what you've managed to achieve? Do >> you know what I think it might be? I think it might be a a deep down belief that I'm so unlikable that I need to compensate for that unlikability by >> doing by adding in additional upgrades to the personality which includes not ever well I know that for the most part there is a you need to have like surplus liability to be able to have an ego. M >> so if I don't ever display an ego that means that the liability that I think is probably lower can be lower which means that I'm not going to push over and accidentally cause some sort of an issue. I think that that's I think that's probably a big part of it. And uh yeah, it's interesting. But one of the things that uh I certainly talk about at my live show is doing the thing in spite of not thinking that you should be able to like doing it anyway and being able to turn up and do the Apollo or or or sit down with Matthew McConnA or you know whatever whatever the [ __ ] Um or turn down Donald Trump on the podcast like to say no to opportunities too like that. >> Do you turn on? >> Only podcaster that did last year. No, two years ago. >> I picked the right part of the monossphere. Yes, [laughter] >> we did it. Yes. I was [ __ ] [laughter] >> I'm so I We've met twice and I'm so proud of you. That is that rocks. And I know you're like like meek about like that. I mean, it shouldn't be a high bar to surpass [laughter] to not like interview a guy that's sort of bringing in fascism, but like nice one, man. That's [ __ ] cool. >> It was It was definitely a rarity to the the media team reached out to me after the election and >> that's made my day. I'm sorry. This is so great. >> I'm going to put on this hat. >> Put the hat on. I'm going to put this on instead. So, [laughter] yeah, the med the media team reached out to me and they were like, you know, that I think of all of the people that got offered it, the only one that said no was you. You are aware of that. And I was like, okay, I guess I don't know. I didn't have I what what am I going to I'm not going to get anything out of that conversation was my >> I would be far more interested in speaking to him now. >> And I think it's far less um um influential and potentially >> Yeah. that's not like >> world changing or canankerous or whatever and there's less pressure. I was like I I don't I don't I feel like I am going to be able to do the job that is necessary regardless of what you think about Trump. The guy is a generational communicator >> and in the space of 55 minutes I'm not going to be able to I sat down with Bernie Sanders and he was like a slippery eel and I I'm like wow this is un he's like rolling with a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt or something >> interviewed more times than you can even imagine. >> He's been in Congress longer than I've been alive. >> Yeah. >> So I'm like I this is an unfair fight. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Uh but anyway um >> saying yes to things, saying no to things, having the dreams, doing this stuff, all of that. all of that. Um, but definitely is a a good role model for, hey, you cannot believe in yourself and still make it. >> Yeah. >> Like, isn't that an incredible [ __ ] like motivational thing? You know, you've got to see it before you achieve it or whatever. It's like, hey, what about if you achieve it and you still don't see it? >> Because that is also a path. And far more people I think have got, at least in the UK, have been held back by a lack of confidence than a lack of competence. It's like, hey, you're way better than you think you are, and there's a guy out there who's half as good as you with twice your confidence, making 10 times the progress >> because they're just putting themselves in the right situations and going to the rooms and all the rest of things. Uh, but yeah, you can kind of you can just do things. Yeah, >> you can you can just do things and apparently that is kind of the same as believing in yourself. >> But I think you sort of have to believe in your >> like inherent like good stuff about you like that you will keep yourself in check, >> you know, in in like a way where it's like like knowing deep down like no, I'm like a I'm not a bad guy. I'm not a complete narcissist or whatever. So I can step a little bit out into the world and like even if I push you with like everything I have to be as out there and confident as possible, >> like because you've got all these worries, like you're really ne it's so unlikely that you're going to really overshoot. Yeah. >> Yeah. Isn't that interesting? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's so funny to think about uh the fear that you have of being that thing, meaning that you're almost certainly never going to be that thing. That line about like if you worry that you're a psychopath, you're probably not a psychopath. >> Yeah, I worry about that with the autism stuff. Very similar. >> Well, like you've manifested your own autism. >> No, very set of symptoms. Sociopath versus autism. There's like there's like one thing that's not [laughter] the same. >> What's the thing? >> I can't remember what it is, but it's like >> you're perilously close to being a sociopath. >> Yeah, people are probably Do you reckon anyone's ever thought that before? >> Yeah. I think lots of people who aren't diagnosed with autism before they get diagnosed with autism, they're like >> like this. I'm really worried that I'm like a >> incorrectly match. I'm a bad person. Not that I don't >> I don't care about other people. I don't care about whatever. Like >> I don't know. That authent authenticity thing is really difficult though as well. Like I think it's very easy for that to just make you do nothing. It's like what do you want to do? What aligns with like who you are deep down inside? It's like I don't know. I probably just want to sit in and like read my book. >> Mhm. >> You know, like but like what I think I have like quite bad like anxiety maybe to do with the autism stuff. So I've never been able to trust the gut thing. You know when people go like oh just trust your gut. I'm like I am terrified of everything I ever do. I'm terrified to leave the house every day. M >> I can't. My gut is not trustworthy. It's very stressy little gut. >> Mhm. >> But you just have to [ __ ] in. >> If you're trying to go from Joey Chestnut to Joey Swole, the RP Strength app is the best place to start. I've been in the gym for two decades, and it wasn't until this last year that I had some of the best training sessions of my life, and RP was a massive part of that. actual scientists built this thing around the obsession to beat up their high school bullies and provide the most sciencebacked effective path to maximizing muscle gain. It tells you your exercises, how many sets, reps, the weights, everything. So, all you have to do is show up and lift. If the RP Strength app could wipe your ass for you, probably would. And it adjusts automatically every week based on how you're actually progressing. For me, following a proper evidence-based plan has made a massive difference. And if you're serious about your training, it'll do the same for you. Right now, you can follow the exact same training plan that I use and get up to $50 off the RP hypertrophy app by going to the link in the description below by heading to rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and using the code modernwisdom a checkout. That's rpstrength.com/modernwisdom and modern wisdom a checkout. It's interesting you I've heard you talk as well about how all of the interactions or many of the interactions that you have are kind of prefabricated. there's a a response that I before somebody asks me a question, I have an idea of what it is that I'm going to say already. >> And uh I think that is a way to not need to rely on instinct as much. >> I think because as well my instincts are so like intense conversationally like I just want to ask really like difficult questions. >> Like I was hanging out with my uncle and he travels loads for work. like he's all over the world doing this like big corporate thing and I was like we were just like half unborn chat of like how's this person in the family how's that person in the family blah blah blah blah and then I was like are you still like enjoying the travel stuff and he was like no not really and I was like oh okay like what's your and I sort of stopped myself from going okay what how does it make you feel like what do you how can you fix that what's this what's happening you like I really want to like interrogate at people's like and it's not to be like I think they're wrong or they're doing the wrong thing and I want to pick it apart. It's like I just want like them to talk me through their thought process and just so I find that so interesting like the reasons people do things also cuz there's often no reason >> like they haven't actually conceptualized that there are other options >> and they might like want to do something else. >> Momentum is a [ __ ] hell of a restrictor on that. Oh, this is what I've always done or this is what I do do or whatever. >> That's the next logical step. Let's keep going. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. There's a a cool idea of sliding versus deciding and it's like from couples counseling stuff that you move on to the next step of the relationship. We're hanging out on an evening and then it's a situationship and then it's a relationship and then you know you come over a bit and then you got a toothbrush and you got a drawer and we're kind of living together and now there's a golden retriever and oh we should get married and now there's a kid and you no you wake up with a couple of kids and a golden retriever in a house and you go >> at no point did I feel like I decided to get into this and it happens with a lot of things in life people slide through a career well you know I I didn't know what to do at university so I did business >> did business studies and then you know I got a job at I got a job at KPMG KPM G's great and then you know I just like you you stay here and then >> got a promotion. >> Yeah d >> I think it's the same with comedy. >> Like the next logical thing for me to do is like tour tour write another show. Turn it around. Get another tour on sale >> every year. Every year. Every year. >> Yeah. I want to try and do like no stand up in 2027. >> What are you going to do instead? >> Just like write scripts, maybe write a book. Like just live, you know? We've got the podcast that keeps the lights on. Mhm. >> Build that a bit more. Like it'd >> be cool to do a year of like not doing it and then really want to go back to it. >> Yeah. >> Well, also in order for art to imitate life, you have to live a life. >> Yeah. >> And see comedians where all their stuff's about like airplanes >> and dinners. >> Yeah. >> And backstages or green rooms. >> Yeah. It's like got to get out in the world a little bit and >> live a bit. Where did the name >> [ __ ] yourself at the 911 memorial? >> That's true. That was part of tour. That's great. Uh >> the name Guide to Parenting. >> Yes. People think it was like a jab at like parenting podcasts. It truly wasn't. It was Mike and I had done like a couple trial versions of the podcast where we were like, "Okay, we're idiots. Like, we are just talking absolute shite the whole time and it's all silly." And I was like, "Right, so we could call it Mike and Victoria's very stupid podcast." >> Mhm. And that would be like an accurate description, >> but surely the naming protocol should also match the vibe of the podcast where we just name it the stupidest thing that we can think of >> and we landed on Mike Invato's guide to parenting. >> Do you think many people listen hoping to find some parenting advice? >> We get a few messages. I've put it in the children and family section of Spotify. [laughter] So, it's like in people's recommended pods if they like are new parents, they like they get recommended also on Spotify. >> I started I started listening to the Manosphere version thinking that it would educate me about what to worry about for my 8-year-old son. >> Yeah. >> And I was horrified at what I heard. >> Yeah. So, we just thought it was the stupidest name ever. And the joke answer is we're trying to attract an audience of young moms. [laughter] What trouble have you guys gotten into? Has there been anything coming out of that? >> Of like the naming thing? >> No, no, no, no. Of the shower, >> the podcast? >> Yeah. >> No. I think like look, every so often we get a little message where someone goes, "Oh, I didn't like that bit. I didn't like this bit." And we have like I think we have all sorts of people listening to the podcast. And I think a lot of people think it's like guys listen to the podcast, but it's like girls with fringes. I think there's something about like guys talking [ __ ] in like a playful, silly, fun way is a way where I think women generally like socially are like very good communicators and talk about their feelings. There's that like kind of like hack standup bit of, you know, I went for a beer with my friend, we spent 3 hours together, I come back home and my partner goes, "How's his mom? How's his work going? Is he seeing anyone?" and you're like, why would I know any of that stuff? And she's like, you spent 3 hours together. How did you not >> talk about that stuff? And they can connect emotionally and really like learn about each other and sort of love each other in that way. But I think men, while we're [ __ ] at that first one, and I'm trying to get better at it, we're good at just abstract [ __ ] around chat >> and like silly fun chat. And I think like for some men listening to our podcast would be like, well, I can kind of just like chat to my friends and [ __ ] around with them and that's what this is. And that's nice when you're maybe like in a new city and you like don't have that set up yet. But I think a lot of the women that listen to the podcast are like they don't get those conversations from like their group of girl mates. And some this is all generalizations and all that stuff. You know, there's some women that are like have those conversations and have those chats or whatever. But I think like we're providing a service that like isn't as readily available to women in a way which is quite it's like I wasn't expecting it. We weren't targeting a demographic at all but it was like exciting. >> Do you know the basement yard? You familiar? >> I do. Yeah. They're so funny. >> So Joe Santagato was there last week or something and uh they did Madison Square Garden sold that out. 90% women. >> Unbelievable, isn't it? >> I think it's probably a similar thing. >> It's the exact same thing. It's the exact same thing. And the sound when they walked out on stage, the screams were so loud that everyone's Apple watches went off warning people that they were in an unsafe noise environment like some [ __ ] Harry Styles concert. Unbelievable. >> That is and I think like that's probably a shame like like why women feel like they can't be stupid or silly or fun in that way. you know, they're like I guess they've been told they're supposed to be buttoned up and like responsible maybe and men have more freedom to >> I I definitely think when it comes to comedy podcasts, it's hard. Most of them are guy ccentric about guys stuff and then begin to push into an amount of edgginess >> that deselects for a lot of that female audience, right? Um, especially one of the more linear paths to pod success or online content creator success is to start to skew right if you're going to do that sort of a stuff I think which again deselects for a lot of the women and um it's always going to get into some kind of you you orbit manosphere manosphere adjacency stuff which I'm aware that you brought it up earlier on. I do need to clear my name. >> You're not in the manosphere. I'm not even [ __ ] They hate me. They hate me. >> Yeah, but I don't know. You're closer than I am. >> I know. True. That's That's not hard. That's not hard. >> I'm a little [ __ ] >> with your female autism. >> I'm a low tea female obsessed sort of with a little earring. I get called gay on the internet every day of my whole life. Like, >> I don't know. It's funny. Like, it's funny. Like, you maybe >> you sit in a very interesting place. I think >> like you're not in the manosphere, >> but I think to some people they would say you're like den and I don't think you're guilty of any of that [ __ ] either like the really problematic stuff >> but for some reason like maybe cuz you're like jacked like is it just that you're like in really good shape and maybe talk about it or like cuz there there's a ven diagram of like talking about health and fitness and mindset and like >> those things which does exist in a more problematic >> male media landscape, >> but I think you managed to sort of >> I don't know, an unkind views. You're like the narrowest end of the wedge. >> Correct. With the the uh accusation I got after me and Bartlett went viral at the start of the year was that I'm the gateway drug to the manosphere, that I'm the little pebble at the top of the Avalon. Well, yeah. You start off listening to Chris Williamson, but before you know it, you've pipelined your way into Nick Fuentes and Andrew Tate. >> Yeah. Uh despite the fact that the day after the Louis Thuru documentary came out, I managed to unite feminists and the manosphere in agreement that the worst part of the Louis Thuru documentary was him coming on my podcast. That was what they were tweeting about the next day. It wasn't about the documentary. It was about me. It was like a full half a >> Louis coming on. >> Yeah. Louis coming on my podcast got me every single most of the people who were in the documentary weren't tweeting about the documentary. They were tweeting about me platforming Louis throughu. >> Wow. >> That that was that was unacceptable. But only a couple of months before when I've been on Bartlett massage I got called the Lux Maxer which I actually think is kind of a compliment. Uh all of the newspaper articles about that were right-wing madness for your misogynist. But then when I went and did Tucker Carlson's podcast only a couple of months before that, >> I was accused of being riddled with bluepill thinking and infected with feminist lies. There's a quote yesterday, literally yesterday on Twitter, the big reply that happened to like some thing I put up that was like some CS Lewis quote that I thought was really like cool and cute and it like talks it's both sides of the fence about uh the homemaker is the ultimate career and all other careers are just built to support that one. I was like, "Oh, wow. This is really interesting because it's like both it's supportive, it's progressive, it's reg it's old school, whatever the [ __ ] And uh someone was like more feminist [ __ ] In fact, I answered that [ __ ] question yesterday like um when are you going to admit that all that you do is spew the exact feminist lies that you that that are creating the problems in the world. I'm like I'm getting ideologically spit roasted here >> cuz it's a difficult thing cuz we I've had like TV producers come to mine and Mike's standup shows and be like do you ever worry that your audience are the type of audience that might be in the manosphere or might like have some of those incel tendencies or might drift towards that Andrew Tate type of thing. And I'm like, that's really the opposite of a worry for me. Cuz if I because if me and Mike can get a hold of them before Tate does, then they're not going to become these sort of [ __ ] up like misogynist, violent, >> like abusive >> partners of these women cuz we make fun of those guys. And >> we're softer and we're more open. And like I think a nice thing that I try to emulate on our podcast again not super actively but like is you know Mortimer and White House gone fishing. >> Yes. and how like lovely they are to each other as like older men and they like say each other I love the way they say each other's names >> like how you going how you doing Bob just lovely like there's some real yeah male intimacy with like in a in a friendship that I think is represented on that and these like >> TV people were like oh we're just not you know that's that's a bit of a worry for us and I'm like but someone has to talk to these people someone has to talk to young men >> or else you're abandoning that to all of the influences that you have the biggest concerns about. >> And it's hard to talk about like like young men feeling abandoned or without feeling like you're heading towards that manosphere thing, but like I think that's why I found that benefit from the Jordan Peterson stuff. It was someone talking to me in a way that I could understand in how I can take up a positive space in the world. >> It wasn't patronizing. It wasn't pushing you to in a direction that you felt was unethical. >> And it wasn't telling me I was like a piece of [ __ ] for being like a a man. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. I look I uh you're right. I think it is it is definitely an interesting whatever middle of the ven diagram of talking about personal development, health and fitness and and you know sex differences and challenges between the sexes and birth rates and stuff like that because I think they're important issues but it's the internet's really quick to patent match and especially if you present yeah maybe could like [ __ ] hell like you know someone could look a little bit fruity and you're like might be might maybe he might he might swing both ways and then this is well he might be you know he could be manosphere but then also again, insufficiently masculine for the manosphere because the gay accusations come thick and fast. Um, but >> you like them coming thick and fast. >> Sorry. [laughter] >> Uh, one of the things there's this great great article that I saw the other day about grind slop. So, this is and I think >> this is something that I've been feeling for a while that 1,00 you'll be episode 1,1 10 or something. It's like a lot, right? Uh, and much of that is me as a young man going, I don't know what to do. I don't know how to how to operate in the world. I'm confused about emotions and I sometimes I sometimes have self-doubt and I I sleep. I think I should sleep. I should probably sleep more and I should probably work out what I need to eat and I'm going to find whoever I can >> get a hold of to to understand that and understand myself and understand the world around me especially as the whatever >> late adolescent onset like whatever the opposite of precocious development is I'm like in my 20ies starting to understand me anyway >> and uh but there is a there is a degree at least when I have the conversations where I'm like a lot of the 8020 of the development side of stuff like how to sleep well, what a productivity strategy looks like, this is how you should eat, this is how you should train, these are how you you need friends in your life and all of these things. Like I think a lot of that has already been covered if not by me than by other people. So I'm one of the reasons that I've got this studio and we've got this big table and there's we're doing these episodes with lots of people is I get the sense in the age of AI that just raw information dumping is probably not more of what people need. It's probably not more of what I need. I certainly want to learn about things and there'll be progress to make, but given that lots of that territory is already being covered >> by me and by other people and I think people are feeling more alone and I know that I even I as somebody that's constantly around people have that sense too. I'm like I I want to listen I just want to listen to Matt and Shane. I just want to like have a hang and like or I'll tune into you guys or tune into like uh Jacob and Jake and just listen to them talk [ __ ] I just want to listen to them talk [ __ ] And um that's something that I'm actively sort of nudging the show in that direction. And I'm going to lose a big chunk of the audience from doing that to because once a week or once every couple of weeks, it's me and my friends sat around talking about whatever the [ __ ] has happened and having that degree of male intimacy and just having a hang and not like it doesn't feel like homework. And when you've left, you go, "Did I learn anything? I had a nice time." >> Yeah. >> I had a nice time. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh that's it's just like an interesting pivot and that's kind of where I'm feeling at the moment that the grind slop like work until your eyes bleed thing. I don't definitely been through that era, but I don't think that more of that is necessarily needed. So anyway, that I don't even know what I'm saying. >> There's a lot of funny parodies of the sort of grind slop thing. Is it is was his name Doug Baldwin with the tiny little sunglasses? >> He was sat in that seat yesterday. >> Yo, get pissed. Call the police. [laughter] >> That's me on the floor. >> He's so funny. >> Some of the bits that we did yesterday are [ __ ] unbelievable. >> He is so funny. >> You know, him and Timmy No Brakes are the partners in a lot of things. >> Oh, great. Okay, cool. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think he's the funniest guy. They make me laugh. >> He was here yesterday. >> That's so funny. >> Yeah, it was great. So, uh but yeah, exactly. Exactly that. And um >> I have a little hope for AI. >> Okay. that it'll be >> like that it'll put a premium on like live experiences and music gigs people will buy tickets for them and standup gigs people buy tickets for them because you can't trust anything that's on your phone anymore. >> Yeah. because it like what like even watching the Winter Olympics I was like is this [laughter] how do I think that I don't think Trump competed like you know like >> there's just something about it where you go like it makes me the phone is slightly giving me the ick at the minute because it's like I can't quite trust it and I just go >> it already was no one was already that much of a fan of it and now >> no but it's just like even the silly fun videos aren't like you know like like propag propaganda >> cat videos, but like cat videos were like what the internet was sort of built on and now you cat you don't know if it's a cat >> or if it's just some AI thing. >> So it's I I think being in the real world might become back in fashion. >> I think so too. I mean nightclubs aren't nightclubs are dying a death, right? Which was my old industry for a long time. >> I think it's an one one nightclub a week is closing down in the UK at the moment. There's not that many to be able to go through. I'm aware in the US it' be like [ __ ] rounding error on the number of nightclubs we got. >> You can't get away with that many and most of them were already a bit [ __ ] Like you know when it is it's when flares closes down that's when you know that there's a real issue. Okay. >> That's they're patient zero for like they're the they're the overton window for nightife. >> They've weathered a lot of storms. >> They do. They have indeed. Yeah. With the light up dance floor. Uh >> speaking of that, what's the most Belfast way that anyone's ever threatened you? >> Threatened me? I mean there's like fun like there's a thing that's happened twice now on the tour and this doesn't feel like a threat but it does a little bit. There's a bit in the show where I ask if anyone's from where I'm from and I talk about and the joke is about the naming conventions of like some people don't say Northern Ireland because they don't agree with the fact that it exists. Some people say the north of Ireland because they think Ireland should be one >> whole big thing. And that's like a big divide where Catholics would call it the north of Ireland, Protestants would call it Northern Ireland. That's like a thing. So I have jokes about that and uh in those jokes I go have notice I haven't named where I'm from cuz in the first chunk of the show I don't name where I'm from. I say Belfast but I don't name Northern Ireland as a place and I say um have you noticed that I haven't named it and it happened in Newcastle upon time and it happened in Philadelphia. H no it was last night in Nashville. happened in Nashville and Newcastle where somebody shouted out the word trench which is the street my dad grew up on in West Belfast which doesn't on the face of it scream threat but it's a bit like oh that's intense >> how did they know that >> like their family knows my family and in a show that's maybe a little bit contentious about Northern Ireland It's just a bit like, okay, loaded. Noted. >> Was the threat scarier in Newcastle or Nashville? >> I would say Newcastle. That felt a bit more connected to the whole thing. Um, but it feels like I I was reading uh London Falling, Patrick Granf's new book. Um, you know, Patrick Granke, he wrote Say Nothing. Um, you should read Say Say Say Nothing. I think you'd really like it. >> Does that end? >> Um, no. [laughter] Shut the [ __ ] up. Um um and in it he was talking about when he was like interviewing gangsters who were like around this murder that the book's about. >> Um and they would always mention like his kids' names and his like dogs name. >> It's just a little flex. We know where you're from. We know who you are. >> I know exactly where you're from and who you are. >> French. >> [ __ ] hell. [laughter] that I was I was thinking it was going to be some fun jovial little like strange and in fact it's actually a private investigator guy [laughter] who knows something deep and dark about >> but where's Belfast so small like I'm not from West Belfast but my dad is right >> but like >> it's a small little world everybody >> Patty Galloway good friend of mine he there's something about the entirety of Ireland that seems diplomatic enough to say the entirety of Ireland >> the island of Ireland >> the island of Ireland diplomatically. Also, people are trying to spitball new names for the concept of the British Isles, cuz that claims overhip over Ireland by Britain. >> Okay. >> So, you can't call them the British Isles. I think somebody said, uh, what if we called it the East Caribbean? [laughter] Uh, so Patty Patty was every single person I know that's from the island of Ireland has a story where there's some sort of family drama feud thing that goes all the way back despite the fact that England is just as old >> and and and Scotland is just as old. And I I don't hear I don't know anyone that's in the in England that's got that same kind of heritage. my family and their family and this thing and the farm next door. It just I don't know. There seems to be way more like oification. >> Do you think it's just rurality >> maybe >> of like like agricultural communities probably do like they're more embedded in their communities and they rely on each other in their communities. >> If you're less cosmopolitan, you're moving and grooving around. >> Yeah. And that's like a sad thing about living in a city, but I try to like be connected in a city. It's like a nice thing to try and build a community >> living in North London. Like >> there's a lady. What's the community of North London like? >> Jewish. Uh the uh [laughter] >> the uh there's a lady who lives in my block of flats um who's this old Italian lady and she feeds the foxes. So you'll just see her in the bushes every day like throwing chicken to foxes. Um and if she sees one of the foxes has like mange, uh she'll phone a fox charity, get medicine delivered, put it in the chicken. >> She's a fox lady. >> Give it to the fox. She looks after the foxes and it means there's a real fox problem >> which is our block of flats because they're very well looked after by this little Italian lady and uh [laughter] and uh but every so often she needs help sending a WhatsApp so she comes up and knocks on the door and I like >> fully integrated. So, it's like now I try to build that stuff and like I think it's really important and like I'm not even doing nearly enough of it as I should, but like I think it's a really important part of life that's like like not easily fixable cuz it's really scary to just like say hello to somebody like on the street or your neighbor or whatever, but like it is it's doable to build. >> It's nice to be needed. It's nice that that person's got something that they need you for because the the worst thing would be everybody else is a soloreneur digital nomad den justing their way through their day and you go none of us need any of us at all. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's not fun. What uh what do you think is something that Italian families do that British people would I don't know consider psychological warfare? >> Psychological warfare. I mean it's maybe so have you heard like so Santa has become global but it wasn't always global like Santa Claus. >> Okay. >> Um like you know there was like a weird German one called like the is it the Krampus or something who like eats kids um if they're naughty like that's instead of like a lump of coal like you just get eaten by a sort of weird goblin. >> Reverse Santa Claus. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think you do get nice stuff if you're good or maybe you just avoid being eaten. But our version is I think a labana and I think I [ __ ] this up but this is what I was told. um where when the wise men were looking to find Jesus, they were knocking on all the doors in Bethlehem cuz like they look for under a star but like that's not a good it's hardly Google maps, you know what I mean? So they had the vague area that they were supposed to be in but couldn't find him. So they were knocking on doors going, "Oh, we're looking for the son of God who's to be born or like who's just been born and uh we're trying to find him." And basically this old lady who's like sort of an old witch type character just tells them to [ __ ] off. But then when they leave she feels bad and she's like God if that is like if that is the son of god like that's a pretty terrible thing that I've done not to help these guys sort of bestow gifts upon him. So what she does to cover her basis she was like I need to give a gift to the newly born son of god but she obviously didn't know where he was. So she gave gifts to all the children in the whole area >> in the hope that one of those would be the newly born son of God. So in Belfast growing up, >> we would go to like a community hall with a bouncy castle and sandwiches and all this stuff and like have a fun day and then we would all sit down and a late an old lady dressed as a witch would come in and give us all presents. Isn't that [ __ ] mad? Is that was that traumatic as a nervous slightly panicky child? >> No, I I think I I was scared by weird things. Labana the witch was absolutely fine. Um it's the uh what's his um I remember I went to Disney World when I was a child. Terrified of the Little Mermaid. Burst into tears. >> Of the mermaid herself or like No, the mermaid herself. Like the lady like the actress or whatever. The struggling actress who's playing the Little Mermaid at Disney World. >> Eight hours a day. >> Yeah. sweating in like a wig and I think I was just like really freaked out that she didn't have legs. [laughter] You were overwhelmed by the fish lady. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was just all a bit much for me. >> Yeah. I remember I went I went there as well and uh what was that? What was the elevator? You're going to do the same thing. I'm terrified of saying the sentence with the name of the thing in it. the elevator that went up and down and that was the ride. Do you remember this? >> Tower of Terror. >> Tower of Terror. I'm glad that it wasn't the tower that was terrifying. [laughter] >> You were fine. >> Uh I remember I went on that and someone's thing came loose as they fell and uh there was all of this hubbub. There was a big I mean that's you know you said if you die on a plane there's going to be paperwork. I think there was a lot of paperwork. >> Well I haven't really done roller coasters since was it Alton Towers where somebody lost their leg >> on Nemesis? Didn't that happen twice? Can you chat GPT? How many people got injured on Nemesis at Alen Towers? >> The Smiler. Yeah. 16 people. >> The Smiler. That seems >> tough name. >> That seems ironic. >> Tough name. >> A crash that injured 16. Five. What was it? Just say what was the one where someone lost their leg? Like >> I think it was Alen Tires. But I truly haven't been on a roller coaster since and I don't know. It's just like I obviously know that's a possibility, but you sort of think I'll be all right. Let's check all the safety on these things. It's a great name Barati joke about thinking the smiler >> a traveling fun fair. Yeah, >> [ __ ] me. >> Leg amputations, two people. They must have got crazy money. 5 million. >> It doesn't really matter. You've lost a leg. >> How much for a leg? >> My leg? >> Yeah. [sighs] >> [ __ ] It's a tough conundrum, isn't it? >> I really like my leg. I like both of them equally. >> If you had to lose one, which one would you lose? >> That's Oh, that's weird cuz you know the way you like you have your kicking foot, but then you like you jump off the other one. Oh, no. Which do I prefer, kicking or jumping? [laughter] I don't think I would be doing much jumping as like a one-legged guy. So, >> how much kicking would you be doing? >> Loads. I think you're mostly kicking, crutch, bang. I think, yeah, I think I would keep my right leg and train for the Parolympics as a one-legged football guy. >> I think I'd keep my right leg as well. I think that's the important one. I don't know. I've been thinking about Are you left-handed by any chance? No, cuz that sometimes happens, right, with uh I think autistic people have got >> Oh, really? We've swapped the As in you're right footed and left-handed. >> No, that uh there's a disproportionate number of people who are autistic that are also left-handed. >> Wow. Yeah, I think let's Google this one. I'm worried about the whatever the whatever it is, the water usage or whatever it is that you're concerned about. Um, [laughter] uh, my left hand is essentially for show. It doesn't do anything. >> Well, I had a lot cuz when I I was a percussionist, >> right, >> a lot of the focus of that sort of training and >> just bringing the other hand up to the quality of the >> get this to stop being so [ __ ] useless [laughter] and do nearly what you can do with it is like basically the whole thing. [laughter] Uh, dude, double. >> Wow. >> What's e What the [ __ ] is that word? Echo. Echo. Echol. Echol. >> Echelia. >> Echoleia. >> That's when uh h you sort of repeat words. It's sort of like aological stems or repeat words or noises. >> So someone will repeat words or noises. [clears throat] >> Yeah. And uh Yeah. Yeah. And they just sort of like get stuck in a loop. I get that sometimes. my girlfriend as I go, "Hey, what's up?" >> What was the last time that that happened? >> I just go like if a if I like the way a word sounds either that I've said or somebody else has said or like in a song, I'll just be like indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo, indigo. And she goes, [laughter] [gasps] >> "Fuck." Victoriaone, ladies and gentlemen, >> thank you so much for having me. This is This is This was really good fun. You were about to say actually. >> No. >> Yes, you were. >> No. >> Yes, you were. >> I was going to say this was actively enjoying. [laughter] >> Uh, where should people go to check out everything you're doing? >> Victoria on Instagram. Uh, I'm a I'm touring standup comedy. I don't know when this comes out, but I've got two specials on YouTube. Um, that's probably the best place. I always think like it's crazy after a podcast to be like, "Buy a ticket to see me. Watch my shows on YouTube. See if you like that. And then buy a ticket if you fancy it." >> Heck yeah. Appreciate you, man. All right. Until next time, everyone. Lovely, >> dude. Isn't >> that fun? >> Super fun. >> Thank you very much for tuning in. If you enjoyed that episode, YouTube knows who you are deeply. It thinks you're going to like this one [music] even more. Go on.