“Muslims Will Be OFFENDED” - Sam Shamoun Reveals Quran & Prophet Muhammad Contradictions | PBD | 684

If we all believe the same thing, we'd be the same religion. According to the New Testament, it's going to hurt people. Muhammad is an antichrist. There are many antichrists who come into the world. You know, I know Muslims will get offended, but it is what it is. >> What happened with you and Jenko? >> Give him some time. It was a misunderstanding. That's fine. >> Have you guys spoken since or No. >> Go find people where they're at. Invite them to Islam and if they accept, they're safe. If not, take the Jiza from them. And if not, kill them until the victor goes to spoils. how you go [clears throat] where you were at to now being able to sit down against any Muslim pretty much and have a strong debate with them. >> Most Muslims are shocked to hear when I say, "Oh, Hazat Aisha, did you know she was nine when Muhammad defloued her? You're a liar. You're lying. Can you tell me how to invite Jesus?" She thought I was crazy. What are you talking about? But I remember crying out to him, you know, and I said, "Jesus, I don't know how to invite you in, but I want you in my life. I'm not supposed to cry. I'm Ju." There's something very different about you that uh you're you're a complicated human being. >> 30 seconds. >> Did you ever think you were supposed [cheering] [music] I ever signed right here? >> [music] >> You are a one of one. >> My son. >> Okay, we have a special guest in the house. It's very rare you will get three Assyrians in the room doing a podcast, but we're pulling it off today. We have Vincent Oshana. Obviously, we know u Mr. the Assyrian Alpuccino looking Vinnie. And then we have the great Sam Shamon in the house. >> [laughter] >> By the way, just for the people to know, just like you have 12 tribes of Israel, we have many tribes of Assyria. [clears throat] And each tribe has a clan. So I'm from the Ju tribe. If you do a little history about us, we're known as the warrior tribe. Even we speak like warriors. So the Jersus are now going to be rejoicing now that I spoke. They're [laughter] happy. [snorts] >> Yeah. So, so you know, first time I was turned on uh by uh your content was uh an old uh friend of ours, Marvin. He says, "You got to watch this guy." And then I'm like, "This guy's incredible, so capable, talented." And then obviously we invited you to have you on a podcast. >> Yeah. >> And then eventually we were able to get you to be here and it's it's I'm I'm happy we're finally doing this. >> Well, uh glory [snorts] to the father of our Lord Jesus Christ. I always ask the spirit to fill me. uh to help me to point people to Christ and not bring attention to any of us because there's a danger among [clears throat] not just politics or even in celebrity figures even in the apologetic realm of what I call cult of personality where you are drawn [clears throat] to a person and you idolize him and so by the grace of God in this field there can be no idols so it cannot be about me and how great I am and because [clears throat] we are all struggling ling in the flesh. Sometimes our ego loves to be praised and I have to check that right. So glory to Jesus Christ for the gifts he g he's given me. But I pray in this session I disappear and Jesus shines through me and that through this message everyone will be filled with the spirit to know that Christ is the only hope of salvation and he has to be the king of every sphere of our life not just religiously but politically. [clears throat] Sam, your um if somebody goes and searches you and they type in your name and they go to views, >> it's you and Muslims back and forth back. Let's let's play one of them. Play actually play the other one. Play this one here first. >> Oh, that was my first. Is this your first public debate? So, this is your first public debate. Go ahead, Rob. >> Yeah. [clears throat] >> Women can be beaten according to the glorious Quran. Now, do you want to get into a long discussion of the what is the position of women in the Quran and the Bible? I mean, we can do that. The book of Revelation 14:es 4 and 5 shows that women will not enter paradise. He talks about Revelation 14. That doesn't work. Read the context. It's speaking of 144,000 of Israel who were specifically chosen for a task. After mentioning the 144,000, this is what you conveniently forgot. Revelation 7:9. I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count from every nation, tribe, people, and language standing before the throne in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb." That's the context. Do not misquote my scripture. >> So, so I mean, this is this is where a lot of the stuff out there for you. But what I want to do is before we even go in here, >> I just want to learn about you. I want to know your story. So, walk me through how you go [clears throat] where you were at to now being able to sit down against >> any Muslim pretty much and have a strong debate with them. How did that happen? >> By [clears throat] the way, this debate I had just stopped bodybuilding. Just to give you a little background, I [clears throat] come from a family of bodybuilders. So, in the 90s, I used to train. So when I see some of your handsome, muscular staff, you know, I start getting envy and you know, envy is [clears throat] a sin. But yeah, I was just looking at myself. I even though I stopped bodybuilding, I didn't stop eating as if I was a body bodybuilder. But to give you a little background, [clears throat] I was born in Kuwait 1972, came to Chicago in 1974. So pretty much I've been raised in America, a Chicago, don't [clears throat] know much about the Middle East, though our parents are Christian. If you're from an Assyrian background, they'll either be typically part of the Assyrian Church of the East or in the case if you come from Iran specifically, they'll either be Presbyterian because we had a lot of missionaries that came to the Middle East and converted the Assyrians to let's say Presbyterianism. But historically the church of the Assyrians is in the west called the notorian church. Now why do they call us notorians? It's not a compliment and I don't want to bogle you down with the details but there was a bishop in the fifth century named bishop notorious who was accused of teaching that there are two persons in Christ that he's a divine person human person and that's blasphemy. And so the Assyrians have been labeled notorian but it's not a compliment. It's meant to ostracize the Assyrian church because the Bible teaches [clears throat] and the church teaches Christ is one person. He's an eternal uncreated divine person who became flesh from the holy virgin. So to say he's two persons is blasphemy. So they were accused of holding to the twoperson theory of Christ which is not true. So that's my background [clears throat] and I don't know if you come from that background. Typically if you're from that background you'll be baptized as an infant. But even Presbyterians baptize infants, but for a different reason. So, not to bog you with the details, in the Assyrian church, water baptism is the means by which the spirit comes on you, makes you one with Christ so that you're already part of Christ's body. So, he regenerates you. He makes you alive, unites you to Christ. Presbyterians believe that water baptism is the sign that makes you a member of the covenant community, the new covenant of Jesus Christ, but it doesn't regenerate you. It doesn't make you one with Christ. That's something you must do later on. So, there are some differences. So, I was baptized as Syrian Church of the East, but my parents never told me about Christianity. >> I didn't learn about Christianity from my parents. Never told me who Jesus was, >> what the Bible is. I remember going to church. You >> didn't go to church. Well, they would take me to church, but I didn't know what we're doing. Like once a week, maybe once every couple of weeks, you know, Christmas. I had no idea. None whatsoever. But [clears throat] my introduction to Christianity came from a 9-year-old Assyrian boy named Raymond Malco from Lebanon. He preached to me the gospel of Jesus Christ >> in Chicago. >> Yep. At nine. He was nine years old. >> How old were you? >> Six and a half. >> Oh, wow. >> He's nine. You're six and a half. >> Yes. His grandmother was a godly, saintly woman. She was from a Catholic background, but his uncles on [clears throat] his mother's side, they were taught Baptist theology. So, if you're familiar with what they call the independent fundamental, See, I'm giving you too many like denominations, but it is what it is. There are a lot of denominations and the independent fundamental Baptist denomination [clears throat] believed that you have to go soul-winning, win souls for Christ. So, you got to go knock on doors and lead them into the sinner's prayer. So, his uncles taught him that theology. So he would go soulwinning. So he found this soul and for the [clears throat] first couple weeks I just ignored him. I thought he was crazy. But then one day he got my attention because he said Jesus Christ and I'm giving you the gist. Remember I'm the six and a half. I'm 53, you know, and it's kind of sad you guys are younger than me. >> That's scaring me and better looking and healthier. Lord, I pray for that glorified body sooner [laughter] than later. So he told me Jesus Christ is a son of God. See, if I talk about the story, you know, I get a little emotional. So, and he told me that he loved me so much he died for me. That rocked me at six and a half to know [clears throat] someone would love me that much to die for me. So, he taught me the sinner's prayer. And sinner's prayer is, you know, you say, "Lord Jesus, I'm a sinner. Come into my heart." Now, being a kid, I thought I had to recite that prayer word for word because we take everything literally, right? and he told me do it at night. So I took him literally. I had to wait till night. So I was afraid I was going to forget the prayer and I kept reciting it. And night came and I forgot it. >> But I remember that night and I remember that [clears throat] I was in tears. My mom was next to me and uh I told her I remember waking her up saying, "Can you tell me how to invite Jesus?" She thought I was crazy. What are you talking about? But I remember crying out to him, you know, and I said, "Jesus, I don't know how to invite you in. [clears throat] But I want you in my life. So six and a half. [clears throat] He would do street evangelism. There are people from the neighborhood Chicago Foster and Clark Street. There are people who are listening who are going to remember this. He actually would lead me and he would preach and we'd gather crowds. A nine-year-old because it's shocking. I mean a nine-year-old and he'd preach fire and brimstone and hell and I was just a sidekick. I didn't know anything. Now you fast forward, he had to relocate and I lost my elder brother cuz he was the one who held me accountable. Sadly my teenage years things happened, broken family. Dad left. I was very close to my uncle and he died of cancer in about I believe it was 1982. So he was closer to me than my father. So I just gave up on everything and I started doing things I shouldn't have done. You know teenage you go into drinking and you know things that we're not proud of. But I had a huge emptiness in my heart because I've always suffered with two things in my life. And these are symptoms of pride if you actually break it down. Symptoms of pride. But nonetheless, I suffered from low self-esteem and body dysmorphia, which is still two demons that I have to slay till this till this day. And because I had this low self-esteem and really really just body shamed myself, I felt more depressed. So I thought the solution would be bodybuilding. Why? Because my older brother started bodybuilding. And if you know about bodybuilding, you probably have heard of Sergio Olivia. >> Of course, >> he was a Chicago cop, >> but he also had a gym. >> He's got a son as well right now that competes. Incredible physique. Yeah. >> Oh, really? >> His son makes >> He was known for one of the greatest poses of all time. >> If you go to images, Sergio Olivia, his forearms, he does this pose, the one the fourth picture. >> That one right there. >> Jeez. [clears throat] >> Look at that. >> You should see a son. It makes his father look like another. Can you pull up his son's picture as well? His son is Vinnie. You won't even believe it. >> Look at his son. >> That's his >> Look at that. That's a son to the right. Oh my goodness. >> Oh my damn. >> He blows. Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking crazy. >> So Chicago. >> So [clears throat] I said maybe, you know what? Let me try bodybuilding. Now another thing is one of the biggest influences on my life wasn't a religious figure. It was Bruce Lee. I still love Bruce Lee. I just can't get over this guy. And when I hear people saying, "Oh, he was an actor." It's just like gets me angry. What are you talking about, man? In a street fight, it'll gouge your eyes out. You know, >> the myth of Bruce Lee. So, I thought in my very sick mind, maybe I can get into kickboxing and bodybuilding and become the first Assyrian movie star. Hey, if Bruce Lee did it, Arnold Schwarzenegger did it, why not me? Well, I realized the more I worked out, the more miserable I became. So, there was a time in which I peaked. I was like on 200. And I'm not trying to talk about, you know, I don't want people think I'm just to give you an idea what God is doing. He's allowing me to attain goals to see how empty I'll be. So, at one time, I got to about 220 lbs of solid muscle, no fat on me, and I was miserable. I was depressed. And I realized, you know what? Maybe I should try God. Now, this is around maybe like close to 18. I don't even know the year because I was born in 72. And I try to remember the exact year, but it's in the 90s. As I'm thinking about God, I used to be the if you ever valet your car that you have valley parking. Well, in Chicago, there was a restaurant called Bob City. It was in a very shadier side of Chicago, Cabrini Green. So, they had a parking lot, and I was the security guy, security dude, right? And the they [clears throat] call him the the term I'm looking for, the guy who gives you the ticket. I forgot the name for it. His name was Hal. And he kept saying, "Praise be to Almighty Allah." Now remember, although my family's from the Middle East, they never mentioned Islam once to me. So I have no idea what Islam is or whom Muslims are. So he keeps saying Almighty Allah. Now you know we speak Assyrian. We say >> Allah or Allah >> Allah. >> So he got me interested. So I said, "Can I ask you a question? How do you know this term?" So he started talking about Minister Lewis Farrakhan. I have no idea what this guy's talking about. Then he says the honorable Elijah Muhammad, the prophet Muhammad, and then he mentions master Farad Muhammad. Now I'm thinking it's the same Muhammad. Turns out he's a member of the Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam who's now the leader is still alive. Lewis Farrakin hasn't passed away. There he goes. One of the most powerful charismatic speakers. This man will captivate you and he does it from memory. He doesn't have notes in front of him. He'll quote the Bible Quran from memory. man is amazing in his recall and his speech. So captivating. And he mentioned the Quran. So I asked, "Could you give me a copy?" Well, I read the Quran and I was flabbergasted because here's a book that mentions the major prophets of the Bible and Jesus, but it gives a different spin on it. So I got really confused. So in the back of the book, you have like, you know, table of contents, not table, I'm sorry, index of names. So I went looked for Jesus in every place that Jesus showed up in the Quran. And I believe the translation was Abdullah Ysef Ali. At that time it was the most popular Quran translation. Now it's obsolete. But in the '9s this was the translation that Muslims would give out. And he's got copious notes right to indoctrinate you. Man, I ate it up. I was shocked to find Jesus in the Quran. And this is one thing that non-Muslims when they encounter Islam, the shock effect, cuz they think Muslims are the other side. They're all evil. They're terrorists. And then they find out that they have more in common with Christianity than even Judaism does. This is a fact. Islam is closer to Christianity than Judaism because Islam recognizes Jesus. It says he's the Messiah, born of the Virgin. In fact, the Quran says that the greatest woman Allah created is Mary and she's the only woman mentioned by name in the entire Quran. women aren't mentioned. So if we're looking >> his mom, not not even uh the prophet's mom. >> No. Muhammad's parents, you don't even know whose parents are. You don't even know his historical context. If you just with go with the Quran, it doesn't even situate the Quran for you. You don't know is what century is this? All you know it's in Arabic. But when was it sent down? You need external sources. Even when Muhammad was born, you need external sources because Muhammad is mentioned by name four times. But even then you can make a case that it's not really the name of a prophet but it's a descriptive noun meaning the praised one. And some people actually postulate that what you have in the Quran is actually Christian hymns that were then bastardized into Arabic originally in Syriak. A lot of theories some of the theories are strong. So again, as I read the Quran, I got baffled. But here's where training your children and the way to go [clears throat] pays dividends. Because of that young boy teaching me the Christian faith, planting seeds in my heart. My reaction was to go back to the New Testament. I go, "Wait, let me read the New Testament." And I remember reading it. Man, I fell in love with Jesus all over again. In fact, I missed him. You know, I missed him. I'm not supposed to cry. Juu, you know that, right? [laughter] >> The warrior shows, right? But Jesus makes even the toughest of men cry like babies because he's infinitely beautiful. And [clears throat] we are infinitely less and filthy. But as I read the New Testament, I fell in love with him all over again. There's no one like Jesus. Even those who do not believe in religion, when they read, for example, the sermon on the mount, they're in awe of his message. They even realize this is not human. This is heavenly. the way he teaches about to treat your enemies and this is something out of this world and it is it's not from this world it's from a higher realm [clears throat] heaven I fell in love with him but then I had a problem what do I do with Muhammad because I was convinced Muhammad was a true prophet because he was sincere they gave me a biography because then I yeah to I forgot to add the details then I discovered Malcolm X I forgot to mention that because Malcolm X is a big figure in the Nation of Islam yes >> he was the one who pretty much made the Nation of Islam Um but then he realized that Elijah Muhammad who was the man who claimed that master farad Muhammad sent him. So there was a man named master farad Muhammad and he went to Elijah whose name was Elijah Pool in Michigan and he said pretty much I want to point you as a prophet to liberate my people and this theology teaches that Allah is a black man. So it's not Islamic. You go to predominant Muslim country that practices you tell them Allah is a black man, your body's going to be over here and your head will be over there on a trophy. So this is a but I didn't know. So I started reading Malcolm X and then Alex Haley is autobiography by Alex Haley. I didn't understand a lot of the code terms because he kept saying them th Hm in the book. Then I realized it was an abbreviation for the honorable Elijah Muhammad. But his story captivated me because supposedly on a trip to Mecca, he discovered true Islam. And I thought, man, if Islam could do for this guy or if Islam could do for me what it did for this guy, maybe Islam is a solution. But that's when I went back to the New Testament, the Lord saved me. But I had read a sanitized biography on Muhammad that made him look very, very devout, [clears throat] sincere, and so I didn't know what to do with him because if he's sincere and he's willing to suffer for his claims, then obviously he's not lying. But what he says about Jesus contradicts what the New Testament says. How do I reconcile that? It took me maybe two years to finally, and I know it's not a politically correct message, but it is what it is. That's why Islam is not Christianity. Christianity is not Islam. We're not the same. We have differences. So Islam thinks that Christianity has been perverted, corrupted. The New Testament has been changed. We believe that there are many antichrist who come into the world. You know, I know Muslims will get offended, but it is what it is. Jesus in John 14:6 explicitly says, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No man comes to the father except through me." He didn't say, "I'm one of many ways. I point you to the life and I can bring you to the father among many." And he goes, "No, I am the truth, the life." Now, even from an Islamic perspective, no prophet can say he's the truth, the life. Because Islam recognizes those titles as belonging only to the God of Islam, which they believe is the God of Abraham. So for Jesus to say he's the truth, he just claimed to be more than a man from an Islamic perspective. To say you're the life, he just claimed to be more than a man. And he says, "You want to get to the father, you want to be with me, you want to dwell with me, you better come to me and accept me as I am." But the Jesus of the New Testament who's the Christ of history is not a Muslim prophet. His name is not Isaiam. He did not announce the coming of Ahmed because the Quran says in chapter 61:6 that the good news of Jesus is that he announced the coming of a messenger after him named Ahmed. That's in 61:6 of the Quran. You guys can see it. So if you ask the Muslim, what is the gospel of Christ? Oh, he predicted the coming of Muhammad. >> That's 61 vers6. If you want to see it, >> Rob, can you pull it up? 61 vers6 in the Quran. >> [clears throat] >> There you go. And remember when Jesus son of Mary said, "Oh children, I'm Allah, truly Allah's messenger to you, confirming the Torah which came before me and giving good news of a messenger after me whose name will be Ahmed." That's the good news of Islam. He prepared you for Muhammad because Ahmed is [laughter] >> another name for Muhammad, right? That's what they tell you. So that's their good news. That's not the Jesus of history. The Jesus of history claims to be the very God in such a way that even the Quran acknowledges no man can claim the titles he claimed when I said that one of the names of Allah is the truth al hak and he is the life and he's also the first and the last. Well, if you go to chapter 22 6 to 7 there you're going to see the names of Allah pretty much plagiarized from what Jesus said prior to the Quran. You'd think if I didn't tell you this is Allah speaking, you think that you're reading the Gospel of John cuz what is said about God here, the Allah of Islam is exactly paredited from what Jesus says in the Gospel of John which comes 600 years earlier. Here you'll see it. So in chapter 22 6-7 says that is because Allah is the truth. Alhak that's one of the names of Allah and because he gives life to the dead and because he is over all things competent. Now, here's an interesting part in verse 7. And that the hour is coming, no doubt about it, that Allah will resurrect those in the grave. See, only Allah gives life and resurrects the dead and he's the truth. Well, if I go to the Gospel of John chapter 5, Jesus said all those things, but he applied it to himself. If you open up John chapter 5, you're going to have to open up the entire chapter because we're going to look at verse 21. So, now watch here. Now watch Jesus say what the Quran says of Allah, but he says it's 600 years before Muhammad showed up. So who's plagiarizing whom? It's not Jesus plagiarizing Allah. Now watch here. If he goes to John 5, it'll open it up. >> Verse 21. >> Yeah. We're going to open up the entire chapter if you can. If you go to biblegateway.com, you're going to find Bibles galore. You mean I'm I'm moving faster than the great Rob? [laughter] What happened, Rob, brother? So you can't keep up with the Assyrians, especially [laughter] if he's Jiru, you know. Now, if you open up John 5, just put John five, it's going to open up. Now, remember what Allah is. It said about Allah, he's the truth. He gives life. >> Yes. >> And then the hour is coming. >> Mhm. >> Where he will raise the dead. All right here. John 5:21. Watch here. Let's go here. 21. Now watch >> right [clears throat] in the middle. >> For just as the father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. So father and son both give life but in 25 if you watch verse 25 verily truly I tell you now this translation NIV says a time the literal translation is an hour is coming if you read it it's an hour because NIV is more of a paraphrase so some Bibles do not translate literally because in translating literally you lose meaning so they have to paraphrase so this is a paraphrase and in fact we as Syrians can relate if I say if you translate English and say what the hell talking about. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> That's how it is with with languages. So sometimes you can't translate literally. You got to translate meaning. But literally it says >> very truly I tell you an hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the son of God. Not Allah >> the son of God. And those who hear will live. Now 28:29 says something amazing because the Quran says the hour is coming have no doubt about it. Well Allah will raise them from their graves. But who does that according to our Bible? Do not be amazed at this. For a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out. Whose voice? The son of God. So if I were to compare what Jesus says of himself with what was said about Allah, clearly Jesus claimed to be God. Because the things Jesus says is ascribed to the Islamic deity, not to a prophet. So a prophet cannot speak this way if Islam is true. So what did they tell you? Your Bible's corrupt. >> Another passage, John, you brought it up. John 14:6, right? We we read that. I'm sorry. Notice there he says, "I am the way and the truth." One of the names of Allah and the life. So clearly the Jesus of history is not Asa. He did not announce coming Muhammad. So from a Christian perspective, as offensive as it may be, facts are facts. If we all believe the same thing, we'd be the same religion. According to the New Testament, it's going to hurt people. Muhammad is an antichrist. That's the New Testament teaching. Because what is the criteria for an antichrist? 1 John chapter 2:22-23 tells you who is the antichrist. He who denies the father and the son. Islam says Allah is not a father and Jesus is definitely not a son. In fact in chapter nine of the Quran verse 30 you know what it says >> and the Jews says is the son of Allah to this day scholars are baffled who is this and what Jew said it. Now, some translations will tell you that Usuz is Ezra the prophet, but the context is the call to jihad. A lot of people don't know that one of the last chapters before Muhammad died. Now, again, we're basing this on the Muslim sources. There are people who question the Muslim sources. They say, "Well, we Yeah, because >> Muslims, >> they're not in [sighs and gasps] not in Muslim countries, they can't." But you'll have Muslim academics who will tell you, "Yeah, these are later traditions. They're embellished and not all Muslims believe in what they call the hadith. Now, the largest group of Muslims identify as Sunni. In fact, you had two of them debating when they were here. They would be Sunni Muslims. One of them was a Salafi. >> So, though they are Sunni, >> Daniel or >> uh Jacob uh what was his name? >> Daniel. >> The other guy Jake >> Daniel and Jake Catala. >> Yeah, >> Jake. I don't know if it's short for Jacob. Now, he's a Salafi. There are differences among them. And though they belong and again I'm not saying these differences prove Islam is false because we got differences among Christians right I mean look fair is fair Islam is not monolithic neither is Christianity right there are flavors of Christianity but point being the largest group of Muslims would identify as Sunni but in that Sunni branch you have people called Salafis they have a view of Allah that the other Sunnis do not share we can get into that but so not all Muslims believe in the hadith though it's the largest sect they would follow what they call the hadith or the sunnah you have Shia they have their own traditions they don't accept in fact if if you come from Iran Shia majority right >> yeah so they they would not accept the traditions of Daniel Hiku so when they quote Bkari they reject it they go we don't follow Bkari we have you know kath they have their own traditions and then there are a group of Muslims who only follow the Quran they're Quran only Muslims so just like Christianity I have a variety so if I'm dealing with a Muslim I first ask them what are you so I can know how to address them. I can't address them the same cuz you know you Muslim so I don't accept the hadith. I don't care what Bkari says. I don't care what Muslim says. So I have to now stick with the Quran and show them why there are holes in the narrative. And the point I'm getting at is that in Islamic theology, specifically Sunni, there are certain attributes, names of Allah that no creature can ascribe to themselves. Some of the names I just showed you, but Jesus ascribed to himself. So now we got a problem in chapter n the Quran according to the Sunni tradition. This is one of the last chapters Muhammad gave before he died. These are his final marching orders. And in his final marching orders, if you want to look at a chapter 9, it starts at 28 all the way to 33. This is again according to the Sunni narrative. Now if you accept the Sunni narrative, then this is one of the last. But if you are one of those Muslims who say, "No, these are just later embellishments." Well, then you have a hard time because you can't situate the Quran. How do you know when the Quran was written? It doesn't tell you. It doesn't even give you the chronology. For example, if you go to Sunni tradition, there are two periods in the compilation of the Quran. There's what's called the Meccan period and the Medinan period. Mecci Medani. Again, based on the Islamic narrative, for the first 13 years, Muhammad preached in Mecca. the tone of those chapters that are attributed to that period very different to you to to you be your religion to me my religion because he's outnumbered he doesn't have control and if he does try to make an attack they'll squash him so when you read those chapters from that period if we take the traditional Sunni narrative very tolerant like let's get along you know okay hey you don't believe my religion that's fine you know to you your religion to me my religion that's like chapter 109 of the Quran says it you know to you your religion to me my religion that's what they'll often quote but they quote in the context when they're outnumbered then you have what's called the Medina period the period where he now goes to Medina and he becomes head of state the tone changes it goes from to you your religion to me my religion then you enter Medina okay now since they oppressed you you can fight back self-defense then the final stage is chapter nine now he's amassed a large number of soldiers according to the narrative, right? One of the greatest scholars in my opinion questioning the narrative. You had him. He debated Robert Spencer. If you want what I consider to be one of the most knowledgeable Christians on the historical Muhammad as well as political Islam, you won't get any better than Robert Spencer. >> So, if you ever want to talk, bring Oh, he's amazing. >> Right. >> Interesting. cuz he's got a he's got a lot he gets a lot of hate and he's got a lot of controversy >> behind him. I mean, when I announced that I'm bringing him, they were furious about bringing Robert Robert Spencer. >> He's my estimation, >> you know, how people say this guy's the best. And that's an ego thing. May God crush our pride, but [clears throat] my estimation, I don't think there's someone more knowledgeable in political Islam and historical Muhammad than Robert Spencer from a Christian perspective. >> Interesting. He would be part of your if you ever get an a team, he'd be part of it. Now, I mentioned him only because [clears throat] he would question these sources. But if you're a Sunni because now I my audience is now the Sunni Muslim like whoever it is, if it's Daniel, according to the tradition chapter 9, one of the final marching orders, he's amassed a large number of soldiers. Now he's telling them go and expand Islam. It's no longer defend yourself. It's now go and expand Islam politically, economically, socially. That's the context of chapter 928 to33. But now notice Muhammad has to give them a pretext to attack. Okay, why are we attacking these people? You're going to see it doesn't say because they threatened you. This is the Islamic narrative. It's because they believe differently from you, right? Black and white. You're going to see it so they don't think I'm lying. And if they want to get the commentators, we're going to have a field day, brother. [laughter] >> They can't tell me it doesn't mean this. Wait, wait, what did I say? Right. But here, chapter 9 28 to 33, we're going to read it. Oh, you have believed. Now this translation says polytheist but the term mushriun mushri it's much more broad than simply a polytheist. The term comes from sherk. What is sherk? According to the Quran sherk is the one sin Allah will never forgive. But what is that? When you claim there are multiple divinities or Allah shares his glory or attributes or sovereignty with a creature or God has a son, you fall under that category. So according to Islam, all of you are sherkers. You're mushik whether you like it or not. Why? Because if they ask you, do you believe Jesus is God's son? Mushik. You believe Jesus God's son? Mushik. You believe he's Lord Mushik. Now the Quran says to fight you. And to the victor goes spoils. Or you pay what's called Jiza. We're going to get there. So all you believe or or have believed indeed the polytheists are unclean. So let them not approach alam. Now without the traditions, you have no idea where this is. It's a tradition that tells you this is the cabba and Mecca. But if you just went with this, you'll have no idea where this is. What the heck is haram? But this this means Mecca the cabba. Don't let them approach after this their final year. What year? See without the Islamic narrative, you don't even know what year this Mhm. >> This is 2 years before the death of Muhammad, right? But I can't tell. I mean, what what year, buddy? Doesn't tell me. And if you fear poverty, now why is it saying fear poverty? The Islamic narrative says that they would make pilgrimages to to this day the Muslims do it to circumambulate the Cabba seven times, run between the two hills, Safen Marwa, seven times, throw seven stones at Satan, which they claim was instituted by Abraham, but there's no evidence for that. These are pagan practices. So when the people would come, they'd barter, they would sell, they would trade. So it's saying, well, if you fear by banishing them, if you fear by banishing them, you're going to lose money. Don't worry, Allah will enrich you from his bounty if he wills. In well, it's if he wills. We say inshallah, but here it's, you know, if he wills. Now, how will he enrich you? This is the question I want you to see. By having you fight the infidels and taking Jiza from them. That's verse 29. It says it right there. Fight those who do not believe in Allah. Does it say fight those who threaten you? Fight those who attacked you? Fight those who want to take your land. No. No. Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day. Well, I don't believe in the All of Islam. Now, I know people say, "Well, it's just the name." That's not my debate. I have no problem using the term Allah. The Allah of the Quran is not the God of the Bible. >> So, different gods. >> Absolutely. Okay. But now you have to qualify that. Do you think the average Muslim even knows the differences? Probably not. >> Absolutely not. They don't. They're told that this God is a God of Abraham. They're told Jesus is a mighty messenger. So, you have to distinguish between what the sources say and the person. Because if I interview an average Christian, how many of them know what the trinity is? How many know that Jesus is the God man? That you must believe he's God and man. If I ask Christians, is Jesus a man in heaven or a spirit? I've done that. They'll say he's a spirit. No, he's not. The Bible says he's a glorified man in heaven with a glorified physical body of flesh. and he's going to come back in the flesh. So, how many Christians know that they're supposed to believe that? >> You'd be surprised. Ask Christians say, "Hey, >> I I understand." >> Yeah. So, here, if you don't have the same idea of Allah, they do, that's pretext to fight you. >> And Sam, not to cut you off. When you say fight, is that fight to kill? >> No, it's uh UFC. Oh, >> okay. I want I want to make that clear that it's saying fight should be they're trying to kill you. >> UFC championship belt. What's wrong with you? >> Okay, my bad. The rear naked in you, bro. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, please continue. >> So, and the last day. Now, real quickly, let me describe Islamic last day because I want to show the audience who don't know Islam how graphic this is. The last day in Islam means if you pass the test, you will enter Jenna. You'll enter paradise. You have maidens of pleasure. I can give you even a reference very graphic chapter 78 3133. It says that they have swelling breasts, breasts that don't sag. And the Quran says you'll spend all eternity defflowering them but you won't harm them and they'll return. When I say Quran, Quran says you will have sex with them. But the hadith go graphic. You will be deflowering them but you won't hurt them. They'll return virginal again. So this is the pleasures of paradise. And you're going to have wine and you're going to have milk and you're going to have, you know, meat and young boys serving you. Youths of perpetual freshness. Now, why the hell do I need a young boy in paradise to serve me? Well, things to make you go. But that's the last day. Oh, you brought it up, huh? See, full breasted >> companions of equal age. >> Yeah. So, that means you don't need um breast implants in paradise. It's good. >> Free of charge. Yeah. >> Perfect. >> It's impressive. >> You see why they they love us, don't you? Yeah. Impressive. >> When we come here, uh we're in go back to 30 up to 30. >> So, now why should you fight them? I'm sorry. 29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the last day who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful. So if you don't accept Muhammad's restrictions like don't eat pig meat grounds to fight you. Am I making it up? It's right there. Why do you fight them who do not consider unlawful what Allah and his messenger have made unlawful. So what you do not forbid that Muhammad has forbidden you are now an enemy and need to be brought into submission. And who do not adopt the religion of truth. Now guess what that religion is? Buddhism. It's Islam. So if you do not accept Islam, what must they do? Fight you. Even those who are given the scripture, meaning even if they're Jews and Christians. Many people may not know this, but those who are in the field will know. One of the titles given to Jews and Christians is the people of the book. Why? Because the Quran assumes the same God that gave the Quran gave the scriptures to the Jews and Christians because it says he's the God of Abraham, right? Right? And it says this is the religion of Abraham. So even if you're a Jew Christian but you deny Muhammad or Allah said to the Muslims fight them until they pay Jiza. Why? Willingly while they are humbled as a sign of your humiliation. That's how Allah will enrich you. Thank the Lord. There's really no Islamic state that enforces this. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ. Right? I mean if you ask me is there an Islamic state? No, there isn't. Are some countries more Islamic than others? Yes, but there is no truly Islamic state, right? That implements what the Quran and the Sharia puts. But you understand this is how Islam expanded. Go find people where they're at. Invite them to Islam and if they accept, they're safe. If not, take the Jiza from them. And if not, kill them until the victor goes to spoils. Another thing this related to Christ, why then should you fight Jews and Christians? Verse 30, the Jews say Ezra is a son of Allah, but it's not Ezra, it's Usuzer. They tell you it's Ezra. But with that said, there's not any shred of historical evidence that the Jews ever worshiped Ezra as a unique son of God. Doesn't exist. So where does this come from? Well, the Muslims say, well, there was a particular group at a particular time, but those are the Muslim sources. If you ask them, can you give me any pre-Islamic [clears throat] or sources besides Islam that there were Jews who worshiped Ezra or whoever? No, they can't find it. But now watch the Jews say Ezra is a son of Allah and the Christians say the Messiah is the son of Allah. Now there they got us. If I ask you guys, do you believe Messiah is the son of Allah? Do you believe Jesus son of God? >> Yes. >> It says for that reason they must fight you. >> It's right there. The son of Mary and they were not command I'm sorry you skipped to 31. That is what they say with their mouth. See that's something you just say from you made it up. Imitating the sayings of those who disbelieved before. May Allah destroy them. How do you think Allah is going to destroy? He's going to come down on a horse. Who do you think he's going to use to destroy you? The jihadis. Am I making ups right there? >> Nope. >> This is the context of jihad. This is what Islam, this is Muhammad's final marching orders. Whether you like it or not, if they become predominant majority, and if they're zealous, now thank God, most Muslims are not, they have to do this. >> Sam, how many times have you read the Quran? >> I don't know really. Uh maybe once or twice. I don't know. >> No, stab it. >> No, I'm serious. I don't uh >> literally you've read it maybe once or twice. >> Yeah. >> And how do you remember everything? >> As I was trying uh said, I think we said off there uh in the 90s I realized honestly when I would have a conversation, verses would pop in my head. >> So it's not I train for it and I don't want people to be impressed by it, right? Oh, was it? No. Knowledge puffs up, love builds up. I got a lot of issues that I pray God will show me mercy on the day of judgment. I just realized maybe it's God's way of gifting me. >> How many times have you read the Bible? >> If I go back, I probably read it two or three times. >> Two or three times? >> Yeah. I don't really read it all the way through. Like now it's it's just like, you know, I'll go through it, you know, maybe read a psalm here or there or if I'm researching. Yeah. It's it's I I guess like when they drop really I was dropped as a child when I was one in my head. So maybe it triggered something. I don't know. Maybe that's how God does it, right? >> Are you are you a massive? Because when when I sat down with Charlie Kirk and and we would talk to him >> off camera, he would say he studies three hours every day. Yeah. >> No matter what he reads and studies three hours every day. >> Yeah. >> Do you have a ritual of studying a lot every day? Do you read a lot every day? >> Not that way. What I do is I'm always on my blog writing posts for people if not doing live streams. So I'm not studying. I'm writing to equip people with articles so they can use it in battle because I want to equip people. said because look um if the Lord carries I'm going to die. >> So at 6 and a2 this 9-year-old comes to you at that time. >> Yeah. >> At that time what's your relationship with your dad at six and a half? >> My dad walked uh walked away when I was probably seven shortly right after that. >> So it's right around that time that this is happening to you. >> Got it. Okay. So that had a massive impact on you because huge. So, so is is that is that a moment for you where your biological father walked out but your you know spiritual father is going to be with you forever. Did you did that give you that piece as a young man? >> Yeah. Raymond was young boy. >> Yeah. Raymond is pretty much my dad even though he was nine. And his grandmother, my mother was a wonderful woman. She left a wonderful legacy but she wasn't educated in scripture. So, but his grandmother was my spiritual mother. >> Raymond's Raymond's grandmother. >> Raymond. Yeah. Because his mother died when he was young. So his maternal grandmother raised him and his brother. >> How much time did you spend with her? >> I think from 6 and a half to 10. >> How often? Like every day? >> Every day we'd [clears throat] go I'd hang out with him every day. We'd go to the house. She would teach us prayers. >> She would or he would? >> She would. She in fact because of her impact I still remember now I know it's part of the liturgy of the Assyrian church. But I didn't know that back then. She would teach she taught me this. and for some reason those prayers. She taught me that. >> She also taught me the a but in a different way from where you know like uh Buchelli says it she taught it this way. Now guys, I'm not a singer and I'm not going to give up my day job. But so she taught it this way. Aaria. So I remember that for some reason it stayed in my mind, right? She was a wonderful woman. >> Six and a half years old. Was Raymond's grandmother friends with your mother? >> No. >> They didn't know each other. >> No, they were they were in the neighborhood. So you know, you know how you meet people high and by, you know, but Chicago. Yeah. It wasn't like, you know, oh, we're cousin. No, just he was taught to go soulwinning. So when he won me, he took me to his grandmother and she'd teach us prayers. >> And what what was the denomination? >> She was Catholic. His uncle on his mother's side became Baptist. >> So later on at 18 years old when that's security guard, the guy you're working with at the valley at this Bob's uh city. Yeah. Bob >> Bob City. Yeah. uh when you worked there and he introduced you to the Nation of Islam and you know uh Farerrakan and all these guys uh at that time would you say premeating Kim you'd consider yourself a Christian or you're a lost teenager kind of going through? Yeah. Was I had pretty much turned my back on >> when when you left at 10 years old. 197. >> I was about 13. 13. When he 10, he relo. But yeah, it was I think he was 10. He moved and I started slipping. But around 13, I was just >> gone. Yeah. >> So 13 to 18 there's nothing. >> Nothing. >> No church, no mentor, no father figure, no nothing. >> Yeah. >> Did you go to college? Are you a good student in school? What are you doing in school? >> Uh I was such a good student. I got thrown out of high school. >> Third year. >> Yeah. >> In high school. >> Yeah. Chicago. >> Yep. Then I got a GD and never been to college, never been to St. Mary, never been to university. >> What What was your you know what what class came easy to you? Are you a math guy? Are you an English guy? Are you a history guy? Are you >> I I liked history but not in school. I just hated being in school because of my body dysmorphia and low self-esteem. I couldn't be around crowds. >> Were you in gangs? Were you a troublemaker? Were you >> I was with the gangs, but I wasn't the tough guy. I mean, yeah, I hung out with like the Assyrian kings, >> you know, >> in Chicago. Okay. >> Assyrian kings, right? Yeah. >> So 18 years old, you meet this guy. Did you ever convert and become a Muslim or no? >> In my heart, I believe Muhammad was a prophet, but it's not good enough because if you go with Sunni Islamic tradition, you have to take the shahada in front of at least two witnesses. But the guy who was talking about Islam, he didn't take me to a mosque. He just was talking and then I started my curiosity is such that when I get into something, I have to study it. So if I backtrack like when I like Bruce Lee, I add up every book on Bruce Lee and I would devour hours into Bruce Lee. I had to know this guy inside it and up. When it came to bodybuilding, I would devour every bodybuilding magazine and there was Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia. You know that I [clears throat] something about me when I'm into something I eat it up and nothing else matters. >> It's like I'm just focused on this. The world can go to hell. I mean, God forbid, but you know, I'm not I'm >> And so, whatever I focus on becomes the entire [clears throat] center of my life. Everything I do revolves around that. So, during this time, I'm thinking I'm really I've deceived myself. I'm going to make it to Hollywood. The Lord had a sense of >> 18. Yeah. When I was bodybuilding, my goal was that I'm going to get into Hollywood like these guys did. Bruce Lee did martial arts. I'm going to do it somehow. I'm going to do it somehow. >> So, are you watching JeanClaude Vanam? Are you watching all these movies? Are you watching? >> I was watching them, but they never compared to Bruce Lee. I would watch Bruce Lee over. >> You know who's a big Bruce Lee guy? Dana White. >> He is. >> You go to his gym in his office. Bruce Lee quotes everywhere. >> All right. >> When you walk into his office, there's a Bruce Lee quote on the wall in his office. Like >> uh Dana's a Bruce Lee fanatic. >> So he does think he's a real He's not a fake, huh? >> No, no, no, no. Based on the way I had when I was with him, it was a lot of respect for him. His quotes are all over his gym, everywhere. Uh uh as it Okay, so 18 years old now. Is he discipling you? Is this guy discip Did he bring you anywhere? Did you meet somebody? Did someone Did you meet any of the big names? Nope. On the Nation of Islam? Nothing. It's all independent identity. >> Searching went to bookstores and >> 18 years old. There's no internet. There is internet, but there's not the Google and all that stuff because you you know your age where you're at. >> I don't remember using internet at that time either. It was more the AOL chat or whatever it was. >> Yeah, I remember the slow one. >> Yeah, that's right. net zero and and all of that. Yeah. >> So, okay. So, at this time you're going through it and then you read the Quran and you go through your phase. >> What are you doing occupation wise? What are you doing to make money >> at that time? I was working security and sometimes I'd work as a tow truck guy just uh buy time to get into I'm serious. I was really I really thought I was delusional. All right. But how did I find uh how did I research? I just go to bookstore. There was a Muslim bookstore in Chicago north side Devon. There's actually two. One of them is still there. If the people are watching, they'll know what I'm talking about. It's by Devon, California. It's called RA. >> But in the 90s, it was not at that same spot. So, I'd go buy Muslim books. And I'd go now, we still have Barnes & Noble, but at that time, we also had Borders. You guys remember Borders? Of course. Yeah. >> I love Borders more than Barnes & No. But I don't know, man. I just >> I don't know. I just liked it. I maybe the colors. Who knows? But I would go there and try to get books and then Muslim book bookstores obviously. But what really did it for me is I would buy VHS tape debates. We're living in a time of the VCR >> VHS. I know some people saying what is that right? >> I think it's like the way of the dodo birdax [clears throat] and you know we had VHS. So they would sell Muslim Christian debates. Now all those debates are online on YouTube but that time we didn't have YouTube. So, I bought them and and I'll tell you how I got into apologetics because that was because of some Muslim guy who challenged me. But when I watch the debates, I'm designed in a weird way. I learned more from attacks on the faith than I learned from defending the faith because it forces me to think. So, I was watching the Muslims slaughtering the Christians and it got me to think, how do I answer this guy? So, that put a fire in me to find answers. Now, I was never discipled. I didn't have a pastor. I didn't have a priest. I didn't I had to just rely on God's spirit to guide me to the right sources, find the right let's say authors or listen to the right Christians. But when it came to Christian Muslim debates, the Christians were getting slaughtered. I cannot tell you of any Christian that I think won a debate decisively in the '90s. There were some close, but for some reason the Muslims were slaughtering the Christians. >> What was their angle? What angle did they take that Christians didn't have a way to defend themselves? Even when it came to Christian topics, the Christians were doing bad. Like is the Bible God's word? You would have scholars like in fact it's on YouTube like the late Dr. Gleon Archer who was professor emiratus of now it's closed but in Dearville Illinois you had Trinity Evangelical Divinity Seminary. This man was a beast. Now he's since been with he's gone with the Lord. He would read and write 25 languages. >> Jeez, >> he's amazing. But when it came to debate, he was getting slaughtered and by neophite Muslims who don't know biblical languages and on topics you think it would be easy for him. He was just getting slaughtered. You'll find on YouTube Lisa Archer Muslim debates disappointing. Trinity getting slaughtered topics that we should win. It's one thing when you're debating a Muslim topic you're not familiar with and you know you have the advantage. You're a Muslim but when it comes to your own topics and you are br and he is brilliant but he's not a debater. See you'll see some of the debates right there. Gleon Archer versus Jamal Bi the authenticity of the Quran. I thought I mean it was heartbreaking because I'm not a scholar. I'm just a you know teenager and these scholars you know is there a response? So to tell you how I got into this so see how God works. When I finally did embrace Christ and realized that Muhammad was deceived and Antichrist 1 John 2:22:23 I had a friend who used to teach me how to box because I used to teach him how to bodybuild. I don't want to mention his name. I don't know what happened to him since. And I don't want to get him in trouble. I don't know if he's even still in the faith, but he was a from a Bosnian background. His father was a boxing coach. And so he would teach me boxing. I would teach him how to lift weights because remember, I'm going to get into Hollywood, brother. [laughter] >> As I started talking to him about Christianity, he started getting interested. Now remember, he's Muslim background. >> Muslim background. Interesting. So he started not going to the Juma prayers, Friday prayers and his community college, right? College. So the Muslims started noticing. So they asked him, "What's going on?" He goes, "Well, you know, I'm starting to get into Christianity. Who's the guy who's been influencing you?" "Well, I'm a neopight. I'm green. I don't know much about I'm just learning." So I met a couple of his friends. They brought in a big gun. I don't want to mention his name. I don't want to give him publicity. You know, it's from Chicago. He was a real estate guy from South Is it South Asia? We'll leave it at that. He walked in the church that I was in. It was a Korean church. He had like a folder, you know, binder. I don't know what they call it, but you know, we don't have it anymore. But he came in, he opened it up, >> you know, where they have those rings, >> paper. >> Yeah. >> He was ready, man. He had a combat kit. It's called the com. Later on, I realized they call it the combat kit. In fact, that was made famous by another Muslim debater named Ahmedat. Ahmedat who since deceased in 2005 he became famous when he debated Jimmy Swagert as the Bible God's word and from the Muslim perspective Swagger got destroyed that made him international he's from South Africa if you look at it from a logical perspective he didn't win but debates are not one on substance it's one on rhetoric personality and flesh and he's very charismatic he's another guy car Jimmy Swagger did but he won if you look at just the facts swaggered one but the rhetoric and the confidence of Nidat he was a very huge fellow right just impressed and bedazzled the Muslims he was the biggest Muslim debater at that time the second biggest is Jamal Baru who debated Gleon Archer but coming back to this guy you'll find it here data Ahmedat Jimmy Swagger see these are some of the historic debates that are setting the ground for future apologists some of the debates hey guys Vincent Oshana here. I recently released a new shirt for my faith-based line, faith over fear. There's a cross on the front and Hebrews 11:1 on the back. As Christians, we never seen Jesus face to face, but we believe. That's what having true faith is. Trusting when we can't see. And if you walk by faith, you have absolutely nothing to fear. Go to vtmerch.com, pick up a shirt. We have hoodies. We even have a female line. Rock the shirt, rock it with purpose, and let the world know who you stand with. Peace and love. So this guy had a combat kit because if you put an Ahmedi combat kit, he wrote books for Muslims to take, right? There it goes. See, against Bible thumpers. >> This guy had his own combat kit, right? >> So funny. >> Yeah. So what he did was he had verses of of Bible that contradict is if it's God's word, then what what about these contradictions? Now I'm green. I don't know nothing. I have no idea, brother. I'm just I just came into faith. Give me a break. No, he came This is one other reason people say, "Why are you so aggressive?" you know, you're very like sometimes you can be very nasty and because I think what he did to me impacted me because he was very nasty to me and he bullied me and there's something about me that triggers me when I feel I'm bullied. Right. That's it. Yep. Ahmed. Yeah. So, >> would you feel you're bullied? >> Uh, yeah. I I I've been bullied, but sometimes I've been the bully because to my shame. But when I get challenged, something kicks in. I it's not like I want to be this way and I go into like I got to take you out. Now I'm not a fighter physically. So how do I do it? I do it verbally because the way he approached me now had he approached me maybe in a nice manner. Things may have been different. He was nasty. Showed me no compassion. Wanted to humiliate me and he did. >> Is this recorded? >> No, he did. He humiliated me. I had no idea about the Bible because he would give me verses and then the trinity. Well, how can Jesus be God? And I was destroyed, disgraced, and I was discouraged. >> How old were you at the time? >> I was close to I think I was already in my 20s. It's in the 90s. And my buddy was there. I almost gave his name. I don't want to give his name. Lord, help me not to mention his name. I almost came out. He was there to witness it, but he didn't like lose his faith in Christianity. So, I remember going at night and I started praying. And this was my deal with God. I said, 'God, if you give me answers to these questions, I swear to you, I will commit my life to never allowing another Christian to be humiliated ever again by a Muslim. And that set the set in motion. >> So when you made that prayer, what happens next? What is given to you? >> The Lord is just directing my steps here. Read this, read that, study this. And so you know how >> the debate with Ahmed Datad, how many people are around while this is taking place? >> No, I didn't debate. I debated someone who was was an admirer of him. >> So you debated the realtor that used the manual that he created to debate >> that was influenced by him. Now he has his own but he had his manual that was influenced by DAT. >> Oh, I got it. Okay. >> So it's not but he's the trend set. He's the one. >> I got it. >> Right. He sells his own but this guy had his folder with all his. >> Is this realtor guy still preaching or no? Is he still out there doing this thing or no? >> The last time I saw him glory to God vindication. I'll just tell you a little ego cuz you know we ser we got to win right? Uh when I came back a couple years later, he ran between his tail between his legs and I felt vindicated. That was the last time. So I don't know if he's alive or dead. >> So that was in your 20s. That's a long >> Yeah. So that's in the 90s and he was already maybe in his 40s. So I don't know. >> Got it. >> But the Lord gave me vindication. >> Once you asked the Lord, you prayed for that. What what who came into your life? >> No one person. It was still the spirit guiding me. That's why I was saying I would go to stores and I've met few Christian authors and lecturers but it's all on VHS but it wasn't how they shaped me when it comes to defending defeating Muslims. I learned a lot from two individuals in particular but their approach was good but it wasn't like devastating. the two names that really influenced me when it came to refuting Islam and they're actually online for the website I write for answering Islam.info John Gilchrist he wrote a series of booklets and books because he was also in South Africa he was the response to Datsw answering Islam.info info. I'll walk you through it. Answering is all right. Yep. Now, if you look at individual authors to if you go down to the red right there, individual authors, you're going to see John Gilchrist. It's a Yep. That man right there. He wrote a series of books and booklets responding to Dad. I learned a lot from him, but his arguments were not devastating. So, he, if you want to say, I would say he's an influence. Another man that really influenced me because he taught me how to think logically is even here on the same website if you go to William Campbell. William Campbell is right there to your left all the way to your left Campbell and then right there you'll see up in the middle. Yeah, there you go. >> He wrote a book uh the Quran in the Bible light of history and science. If you click on that phenomenal book, phenomenal book that book, man, I ate it up because he was writing a response to a man named Maurice Bouet. He was the physician for the king of Saudi Arabia. He wrote a book in 1975 I believe the Bible, the Quran and science. So he as a non-Muslim claimed whereas the Bible is full of scientific errors, the Quran has none. In fact, it's a miracle. No, exactly. That book was being shoved down the throats of Christians. The Bible, Quran, and science. Dr. Maurice Bouquet, conveniently, he's the physician of the king of Sodom and he found no mistakes in the Quran. Is that a coincidence? Yeah. No. No. Completely unbiased. So this guy took him to the, you know, took him to school, >> obliterated his arguments. That book right there, I can say I probably read that book maybe 20 times. >> Oh, wow. >> Because he introduced there's a chapter talking about deductive reasoning, right? and you know how to [clears throat] think logically and how to avoid the etmological fallacy or how to avoid chronological fallacy where you read a later meaning of a word into an earlier period of time. So you can't do that. So if a word means x now that doesn't mean it had the same meaning 300 years ago. So you cannot apply modern definitions to words in an earlier context. You have to see how those words were used at that time. He blessed me because the Muslims yeah well the Arabic means this. Well, that mean it means this now. What did it mean at that time, Muhammad? Because words evolved. Like even the word pig ironically 100 years ago, you know, now you put it in one of the entry, a metaphorical slur, policeman, cop, right? That would be one of definition. Was that the meaning 200 years ago? No. So words evolve. So you can't tell me because the Arabic means this now, it meant that at the time when the Quran is written. So he taught me how to think critically. Now the only problem is this guy debated Zachariah and I was in the audience and sadly he got slaughtered by Zachariah so his book was discredited. >> William Campbell. >> Yeah, he got because he's not a debater. He was an older gentleman. See some people see if you want the most effective takeown of anything. You got to know people's strengths and weaknesses and you got to then put them in their areas of strength. Keep them away from areas of weakness. So if I know you're a phenomenal speaker but not a debater, I'll let you speak. This guy's a devastating debater. He'll do the debates. If you're a phenomenal writer, not a good speaker, you do the writing. And if you're specialized, let's say, in the Trinity, you only talk about the Trinity. He specializes in destroying, let's say, Hinduism, he you don't deal with anti-trin. That's not your field. Stay in refuting Hinduism. You're great at Islam, you don't deal with Jehovah's Witnesses. You suck in that. >> Here's a guy. That's how you got to do it. You got to know people in their areas of like Robert Spencer. You won't find anyone better. and political jihad and historical Muhammad. You put him there, he's going to shine. No one's going to touch him. So, you got to know the person and put them in their area of expertise. See, like me, I don't know much about science. I don't know much about atheism. The most stupidest thing I can do is debate an atheist because if it's about the glory of Christ, I don't want to go and embarrass myself and destroy faith. So, let me bring those lions, Christians, who spend their time eating up atheists. So, that's how you have to strategize. So Campbell was a great writer, not a great speaker. >> He got destroyed by Zachariah. >> This is the debate. >> Yep. That's a clip from the debate. >> So So who who have you debated that's a uh highlevel scholar known Muslim debater? >> That's hard to say. It would I think would be my first debate with Shibbrali. I think that's the only one credible. Everyone else try to make a name, but it didn't go too far. There's not many great Muslim debaters even today. They're popular ones, but that doesn't mean they're great. >> Who are the popular ones? >> Um, Daniel Hakeikuchu, very popular. Muhammad Aab exploded. He's very popular. >> Would you debate him? >> Absolutely. >> You would debate Muhammad hijab? >> Absolutely. In fact, uh, one thing though I have to share because I'm I know how to bring down Islam. You have to know what to debate. This is the problem with men. Many Christians who set up debates, they don't know what to debate. If you want to see Islam destroyed, you have to know what to debate. And when you propose these debates, they'll try to make 10,000 excuses not to debate them because no, they'll know it's the end of >> such as what the one thing I always start with before I debate a Muslim. What did Muhammad say about the Bible? It's called the Islamic dilemma. Islamic dilemma. We put a Muslim in a dilemma. What's the dilemma? Well, just like my New Testament confirms the Old Testament. So as Christians, we can't attack the Old Testament. We're stuck with it. So when they tell me, "What about these wars in the Old Testament?" I can't say, "Ah, Jesus told me the Old Testament is God's word." So I got to join with the Jews in defending the Old Testament, right? Sometimes it's hard. But if I believe Jesus and I believe in his lordship, he told me the Old Testament is God's word. It's not the vadas. I'm stuck. You know, we love you, Lord, and you didn't make it too easy, right? We have to deal with all these wipe everything that breeze. Muhammad put them in a similar situation. All throughout the Quran, Muhammad said, "One of the proofs of his prophethood is that my Quran confirms your scriptures. It agrees with them." No, it doesn't. My Bible contradicts your Quran. That means the Quran is false. But see, the Muslims see that and say, "Oh, you must have changed the Bible." >> But the Quran never says it's been changed. They try to take a verse here and there out of context. And what you read the context it'll either refer to the misinterpretation of the text or a particular group in a particular area but not the entire community itself. So once I debate that anytime they attack the Bible I go oh so you agree Muhammad is wrong. Why? He said my Bible is not changed. You said it is. So that means he's wrong. So are you going to announce Muhammad? See this is how you have to do it. But then they'll come back and say if they say well no the Bible's right. Well, Muhammad is wrong again because my Bible says that what the Quran says about Jesus is wrong. So, Islamic dilemma, damn if you do, damn if you don't. >> See, once you do that, everything else falls in place. >> So, you would debate him. And what what what topics would you debate him on? >> I would love to get these guys to debate me. Islamic dilemma, whether the Quran is perfectly preserved, free of contradictions. Does Islam teachhed? Meaning, does it teach the absolute oneness of Allah? Believe it or not, it doesn't. That's what they'll tell you. They'll sell you that script. And does the Bible teach a trinity and or the deity of Christ? These are the foundational issues. Right? These are it. This is where you destroy Islam because Islam's bread and butter is we have the purest form of monotheism more so than you Christians. You worship three gods, right? That's a lie from the pit of hell. Islam is anything but mon if you really study its sources. But if you let them just give you their shiel and quote a verse here and quote a verse there and catch you off guard. Yeah, it sounds like it's more monotheistic than Christianity. It's actually very polytheistic. >> In what way? >> Well, if you deal with the Sunni Muslims, let's go with that. Not Quran only Muslims. They believe the Quran is the uncreated speech of Allah. So, here's another problem that Christians have. They [clears throat] will debate the Bible versus the Quran. Wrong debate. Wrong debate. Because the Islamic understanding of the Quran is our view of Jesus. And this is something omitted by Muslim scholars. What do I mean? In Christianity, Christ is the uncreated eternal word of the father who became flesh. Well, that's what they believe about the Quran. The Quran is the uncreated word of God that became a book. So your view of Jesus is their view of the Quran. It's not your view of the Bible. None of us think the Bible is the uncreated word of God. Impossible. Because God used human authors and used their personalities. So if you're going to say it's the uncreated word of God, then you're going to say those human authors also are uncreated, it doesn't work. But Jesus is the uncreated word of God. John 1:1, in the beginning was the word. The word was with God. The word was God. And then 14, the word became flesh. So they took that idea of Jesus and applied it to the Quran. Something admitted by Muslim scholars. Now if the Quran is the uncreated word of Allah, very easy dilemma. Is the Quran Allah? Is it the same as Allah? Now in Islamic theology I'll say it is not Allah and it's not other than Allah and they'll say it's not Allah it's not other than Allah. What does that mean? Meaning no it's not identical to Allah but it's not separable from Allah. So it's not identical to him because Allah is not the Quran. Allah has a set of attributes. But here's the problem. So if you say the Quran is not Allah and it's uncreated. How many uncreated entities do you have? Two. But I thought there's only one uncreated entity. Now they have to sound like Christians saying though they're distinct, they're inseparable, so they're one. Oh, welcome to the wonderful world of the Trinity. That's the first step. Now I can go further in their tradition, the Quran actually speaks. There are sound narrations where it says on a day of judgment, the Quran will appear as a man interceding for you. Now I'm kind of confused on that. If this is a speech of Allah, who is it speaking to? Well, it's speaking to Allah. So Allah is speaking to himself. No, no, no, no. The Quran is speaking to Allah, so it's not Allah. Oh, so the Quran has its own consciousness. It can interact with Allah, so they're not the same person. They're different conscious entities, but they're inseparable. Wow, you're sounding more like a trinitarian the more we speak. Now if you multiply what the chapters even the chapters speak and they appear it says chapter two and three of the Quran will appear as birds and they will cover you with the wings and they'll go before you argue with Allah to defend you. Does that sound like Islam teaches absolute unity of Allah? >> Let me ask you in regards to u the religion itself on how it's grown over the years. Okay. And I'm sure as you're going through it, you know, they've had a lot of success. They've grown at a pace where you you can look at data on at by what you're, you know, the world's going to be a majority Muslim. I think it's60 or something like that. >> Yep. >> 2060, 2070. >> And they're not slowing down. And then you see the growth they're having in UK. 1980 was only a half a million people living there, give or take. >> Uh today they got 4 and a.5 million people, 5 million people living there. And you're seeing London growing the way that it is. The mayor is a three-term only three-term mayor they've ever had, Sadi Khan. >> And then you're seeing what happened in New York with Madani getting elected, right? Muslim democratic socialist. They're growing. Okay. On the Christian side, I I don't know if you know, Charlie Kirk played offense. Charlie Kirk was out there doing a lot and getting a a hold of young kids >> who Turning Point USA wanted to grow up and be able to defend their faith in a strong way. And he was becoming unapologetic, right, the way he was doing it. Charlie was. Yeah. >> Um why why do you think their church is growing the way that it is? >> Yeah. >> Well, if you look at it really and compare it, it's not really so much conversion. Yeah. they get converts but even statistics have shown now I don't know when the last statu uh statistic came out but I remember years ago one statistic showed that about over 90% of converts leave Islam in 5 years because they're giving a sanitized version of Islam that when they study they realize it doesn't correspond to what they were taught >> over 90% of commerce leave within five years >> that was a statistic that was mentioned years ago but find out maybe yeah but they don't last the majority of them But those who end up, let's say, remaining, it's not much on conversion. But believe it or not, it has to do with procreation. You would, if you look at it, unless they're completely westernized, right? If they bought into the western dream and having more kids means greater financial responsibility, so have less kids. If they're not westernized, typically they have larger families. And because of that, if you have a Muslim who has a wife who has four kids, but then multiply that with two other wives on the side, we got problems. They're going to outnumber you. But the thing is also with even with that said, we have to be careful. Islam is not monolithic. Just because you have majority Muslims, they don't all believe the same. And many Muslims are secular. They're not even devout Muslims. They're Muslims by name. And secondly, Muslims turn on each other. So even when we say they're growing, it's not one branch of Islam that's growing. It is simply [clears throat] these populations who were then governed by Islam, many of whom don't know their tradition or they don't have the same tradition and they're growing because of procreation more so than conversion. And then at times they become their worst enemies. In fact, uh if I'm correct, I'm not into the political thing, but um what about the fights between Shia and Sunnis even in recent times? In fact, if you I've seen videos where you'll find Sunni, the terrorists in Iraq, killing more Shia than non non-Muslims. Why is that? Because they think Shia is even worse because of their views of Aisha. Not all Shia are extreme. So they turn on each other. They're not all in agreement. They're not monolithic. So even when you say, "Oh, they're going to be over two billion." But two billion Muslims of different mindsets, of different sex that don't all agree and at times they turn against each other and anithmatize one another. Same thing with Christianity. So I'm not trying to say Christianity doesn't have that problem. Right? We Christians, okay? When you say there are two billion Christians. Well, among those you're counting Jehovah's Witnesses and you're counting Mormons and you're counting all these cult groups that identifies Christianity. You're not just counting historic Christian churches. You're not just counting the Catholic Church or you're counting all who sign off as a Christian. And some of them are Christian by name but live like the devil. So, are they really Christian? When you have a Muslim saying he's a Muslim but he drinks and eats pork and you know they do that. >> Of course, >> we've met them especially in Chicago. My teenage years I had a couple of good [laughter] Muslim buddies. They were anything but Muslim, right? So, it's to say you're Muslim is one thing, but to say practicing Muslims. Well, let let me let me ask this because you know you'll talk to some people who are Jewish. They'll say I'm Jewish, right? You know, Adam will say, "I'm Jewish." You know, I'm not really Jewish. I'm more Jewish. >> Yeah. >> Uh, you know, and and but you have that, >> you know, the watered down, you know, Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Okay. However, >> which one has more radical true believers of their faith? Okay. So, forget about the two billion. Forget about the 2.1 billion Christians. Forget about the 15 million Jews. Forget about, you know, all those that we can go through. Which one has a bigger percentage of true believers that they have fully bought into their vision long term and they're imposing? They're driving. >> Yeah. >> That's the number you got to look at, right? >> Yeah. But that's that's the thing. I haven't done any inst uh intensive study on Christians who are devout Christians, but you have a revival happening right now. you're having a revival where the youth are not just nominal Christians, they are being sparked up to be on fire for Christ. So this why I say I I can't really give you a number if there are more zealous Muslims than Christians. But to say that in recent times because of recent events there hasn't the the spirit is moving in such a way that I'm also astonished seeing the hunger among youth to want to now come back to their Christian roots or even by the way you're having an explosion of converts of Islam and Muslim lands. They even say that the church is exploding in Africa and in Iran. They go there are a lot of Iranians who become Christian. They're underground. But even with that said, like I when I say Christianity, this is again we have to be fair. They're converting to a variety of forms of Christianity. Some are becoming Mormons. Well, do we consider them Christian? Right? Jehovah's Witnesses or oneness. So to say how many are zealous, I'd have to look at the statistics. But we from my own experience seeing online, I'm seeing the youth come in droves on fire to reclaim their Christian faith and on fire for Jesus. I'm seeing it. When I was doing it in the late 90s, early 2000, it wasn't the way it is now. So the YouTube is having a hu well whatever, not just YouTube, but you get what I'm saying. >> Having a huge impact. >> It is causing people to look into Christianity. And I am seeing a lot of Muslims leave Christ uh leave Islam for Christianity. But I am seeing people who convert to Islam but those are the Christians and I have to say very poorly catechized and being given a sanitized version of Islam because I've interviewed people who said I became a Muslim 5 years ago but then I found such and such or such and such and I saw and I was shocked that this is what Islam teaches. I can't be a Muslim anymore because they give you a sanitized version of Islam. See the difference with Jesus Christ? Here's the difference. The more you get to know Muhammad is teaching, the more repulsive it turns out to be. The more you get to know Jesus, the more irresistible he is. The more you fall in love with him. He's he is beauty in the flesh. If you want to show a person why [clears throat] not to become Muslim, just compare Muhammad to Jesus. Because Jesus makes everything else look ugly because he's just beautiful. What can you say bad about Jesus? I mean, even from the Islamic perspective, one of the ways I even argue my case that Jesus is superior to Muhammad. I use the Islamic Jesus because I don't believe the Islamic Jesus is the real Jesus. Right? Because Paul told us, if you go to 2 Corinthiansap 11, he warned, he's warning the church. 2 Corinthians 114, he's warning the church. He goes, "Look, I converted you basically. So you are my spiritual daughter because he's their spiritual father. He goes, I have betrod you as a chase virgin to one husband because the church is the bride of Christ. So this is spiritual. It's nothing carnal, nothing physiological. We have to emphasize that because we have people sick minds who think that Christ is going to come and have a physical wife. No, it's the church, the spiritual bride of Christ. But there is something called spiritual virginity. Paul uses it. I want to present you as a chase virgin to one husband. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived [clears throat] Eve by his cunning, you too will be deceived from your simple devotion to Christ. Now, how does Satan the serpent rob us of our spiritual virginity? He says it in verse four, he says, "Because if someone comes and preaches another Jesus than we preached or a different spirit from the one we received or a different gospel, you put up with it easily." So he's saying the way Satan makes Christians lose their integrity, virginity is by presenting another Jesus and you tolerate it. Well, he's talking about the Islamic Jesus. The saying he knew about it, but the other Jesus is the Jesus of Islam or Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses. It's not the same Jesus. There's only one Jesus. You got to get him right. So the Jesus that Paul preached was God in the flesh, one with the father and the spirit. Any other Jesus is Satan's way of deceiving you. So when we say to Muslims, yeah, you know, we all honor Jesus. No, we don't. I don't honor your Jesus. Your Jesus is not my Jesus. So, but when Christians go with it, Paul says, see, now you let the serpent c you. >> You just fell for his trick. That's his tr. Yeah. You believe in Jesus. I believe in Jesus. Yeah. No. Your Jesus is Isa who announced the coming Muhammad. My Jesus is the God of Muhammad before whose feet Muhammad will bow and confess he's Lord. Is that your Jesus? They'll say no. Then your Jesus is not my Jesus. So this is the mindset you have to have. Go. You want to talk? >> So for you know the the part that uh uh I watched this young lady and I want to ask this because to me I think about it on what [snorts] benefit it has. Right. This young lady is asking uh you know who he's she's asking obviously. Yeah. Zach. That's right. >> That's the one who defeated William. >> That's right. That's right. So she's asking him, hey, if men go to heaven, they get 72 virgins. What do women get? And this is his it's a very good question. Go ahead, Rob. >> Mother said that Muslims go to heaven and then they get 72 72 whom the men what will the women get? >> And so as far as your first question, your second question, answer first and then come back to your first question. As far as the question is concerned that if the men go to heaven, they'll get 72 that beautiful woman. What will the woman get? The same question was asked for may Allah be with her who's the wife of the prophet. So the wife of the prophet replied that the woman will get that which your heart hasn't desired, what your eyes hasn't seen, what a year hasn't heard about. That means inshallah you will get something equal. What your heart hasn't desired, what your eyes hasn't seen, what a year hasn't heard. So inshallah if you go to heaven you will get something good which inshallah you'll be satisfied. But the question is first you have to enter heaven. If you don't enter heaven you won't get that something which is good. >> What does that mean? >> Uh did you say the he didn't answer the question? He didn't answer it at all. >> No. No. Pay attention to his trick. Oh, yeah. The Quran says, you know, a woman will get what? What I hasn't seen, right? Okay. Well, hold on. Does that mean she's going to get 70 men? He never said yes. Did you catch that? >> Because he can't say that. That would be a lie from the pit of hell. So, he's an excellent politician. He knows how to get around it because if you pay attention, he never said women will get multiple men. He can't say that. So, but you're going to get delights that are mind-blowing. Okay, I understand that. Does that include that the woman gets multiple men? Oh, but you're going to get what the eye has never seen or the mind has comprehended. Okay, but does that mean I'm going to get more than one husband? >> See, this is the rhetoric I'm talking about. >> But what do women get in the Muslim religion? >> Well, in Islam, you know, >> can I tell you? >> Yeah. >> You will be part of the hoodies that your husband will deflower for all eternity. >> Tell me more. >> Okay. Now, let's say you're a good Muslim woman. >> Yeah. >> You married a Muslim man. >> Yeah. Now it's difficult to ascertain if you've been married multiple times which Muslim man. But if you pass the test and you had a good Muslim husband, Allah will then make you part of those hoodies for your husband at the flower. You'll be one among many. [snorts] >> No, I'm a crappy deal for the for the girl. >> That why do you think she asked? >> And notice he never said, "Oh, you're going to get 70 men." He can't say that. He knows he'd be lying. So that means a Muslim woman, she'll have huge breasts, firm breasts. 7 7833. She'll be part of the hurain. You know, if I tell you where that word comes from, our English word comes from that word. By the way, >> I was just going to say it sounds really familiar to wh it's not. Yeah. >> When he said, "You're going to be a horde." I was like, "Okay, that didn't sound >> I was almost going to break out with an impression. The the brother, [laughter] but we're not doing comedy, Vincent. Vincent, we ain't >> Look at his birthday, by the way. >> What is it? October 18th. [laughter] >> He's born on the same day. We have a same birthday 13 years apart. >> But thank God you're a muscular handsome beast. >> Very different, buddy. [laughter] >> Surrounded by muscular beasts, too. But anyway, >> my man. >> So, so, okay. So, so the contradictions of what a man gets versus what a woman get. >> Yeah. >> If, if, if I'm a logical guy and I'm truly looking for a religion and I'm open-minded, >> Yes. And I'm looking to the Christian church. I'm going, you know, studying Judaism. Maybe I can go that direction. I'm studying Scientology, LDS. Oh, and I'm and I'm also putting becoming a Muslim, right? 72 virgins. H how can I buy into that if I got anything but a B or higher in math in high school? Do you understand what I'm saying? I don't know if you got what I'm saying. So h how does the math add up? >> Yeah. What you mean Islam? How many billions of Muslim men have died? >> Yeah, >> that means there is 72 [laughter] like the ma math running. So help this is a math question I'm asking. >> You underestimate the greatness of Allah. >> Yeah, >> that's probably what it is. >> That the problem is Allah can meet the demand by just giving you just creating as many as you need. See this is why you you're a cafer brother. You don't have faith. Allah can do what no eye didn't you remember what no eye has seen brother >> no heart has come by the way that's a plagiarism of Paul he was quoting Paul because Muhammad took Paul's words that statement comes from 1 Corinthians 2:9 but Muhammad heard it and misapplied it misappropriated it so if you go to 1 Corinthians 2 you're going to see that the context is about what God has in store for believers who love him it's 1 Corinthians 2:9 but Muhammad took it adapted reinterpreted it. So, ironically, Muhammad is quoting Paul, not Jesus here. Because if you go to 1 Corinthians 2, you read 9 all the way to 12, you'll see what the context is. It's in verse 9. What no eye has seen. Wow. Sound familiar, brother? >> Yeah. >> Hm. What no ear has heard, what no human mind has conceived, the things that God has prepared for those who love him. Wow. I >> can you play that again, Rob? >> Sounds familiar. >> Can you play that again on on uh Go ahead. But mother brother sir [laughter] brother s then they get 72 72 the men what will the women get and so as far as the first question your second question answer first and then come back to your first question as far as the question is concerned that if the men go to heaven they'll get 72 that beautiful woman what will the woman get the same question was asked for who's the wife of the prophet so the wife of the prophet replied that the woman will get that which your heart hasn't desired what your eyes hasn't seen what a year hasn't heard about. >> Weird. I've heard that. >> That means inshallah you'll get something equal. What your heart hasn't desired, what your eyes hasn't seen, what a year hasn't heard. So inshallah, if you go to heaven. >> Yeah, that's interesting. >> So what what what is what is the is that how much of the selling point of becoming a Muslim is that? Is is that a big part of it or is that a small part of it? I mean, why would somebody who's a green, >> who is open, you know, Muhammad Ali doesn't give me the vibes of being a guy that's not smart, right? >> Malcolm X doesn't give me the, you know, vibes of a guy that's not smart. I mean, very intelligent. Even Farrakhan, you see what what gets them to say, >> you know, I'm converting, I'm going a lot of people I know >> who, you know, have gone that direction. These are smart guys that I've had dinner with, I've had lunch with, I sat down with them, intelligent, yeah, >> good citizens, good families, good upbringing, good, you know, even these some of these guys are very good, net positive to society. What is the selling point? >> You can be smart in one way and completely oblivious in another way, right? So when you say smart, in what sense? Business smart. Okay. But it does not equate to being theologically smart. >> That's true. So Muhammad Ali if you really know why he converted it was more because of the emphasis on black supremacy. He became a member of the Nation of Islam. Nation of Islam is just black supremacist mindset. So when you're oppressed and you have someone saying, "Hey, you are the original man and Allah's a black man and the white man's the devil." If you feel oppressed and inferior, that kind of gives you the false [clears throat] pretext that no, you're special and that's why you're being oppressed. So his conversion wasn't because he knew Islam. He knew black supremacy, black centric Islam, which is contrary to the teaching of historic Islam. So when you say, why did he? Yeah, they're smart, but are they smart in religion? Have they studied their sources? Do they understand? Because you have brilliant Christians who are millionaires, but don't know a lick of the Bible. So I don't deny their intelligence in one way, but it doesn't mean they understand their sources. Now when you say is this a selling point this is one of the things they don't mention. This is why I was saying that within 5 years when people study Islam and see the horrific horrendous aspects of Islam they're shocked. That's why they accuse us of lying immediately when they say the Quran says it. You're lying. Doesn't say because they're shocked. So I don't want to give the impression that the Muslims are the villains. They're not. And I'm not saying to be politically correct. Most Muslims have no idea what Islam teaches. They're just cultural Muslims. They'll go pray five times a day and they just want to get along. It's those fanatical Muslims that are dangerous and they're about 10% if you they say statistically about 10%. That are fanatic. But 10% of two billion that's still a large number, right? Most Muslims have no idea. Most Christians have no idea. Christians, Christianity, if I ask a Christian about the Old Testament wars, they're shocked to hear that, too. In fact, if I recall in the debate, didn't they bring up some of the Old Testament wars? to try to scandalize the Christian debaters because even Christians don't know about hey kill everything that breathes there's a context to that I mean Jesus forces us to try and understand the logic you know I mean even when I came to the faith it was difficult but then as I understood and I studied oh I understand now right but we can get into that point being just like a Christian will be shocked to hear what's in his Bible if he's not properly trained most Muslims are shocked to hear when I say ohatisha he said hazatisha Did you know she was nine when Muhammad defflowered her? You're a liar. You're lying, right? But wait, you're so then they say, "Well, it was acceptable at that time." Or, "No, these are lies. These are later traditions." So, not every Muslim is on board because not every Muslim knows. But if you're convinced, now here's the problem. If you're convinced it's the truth, you're stuck with it. Okay, what option do I have? is >> in one of the conversations with a with a woman, you're she's talking to you about being a Muslim and then you tell the story about how um he did something to his wife because she got fat and unattractive and left. >> Yeah. >> Boy, you really been watching me. You still like me, invite me. >> Oh, yeah. [laughter] I I' I've been watching the last two days. I don't know how many hours of content of yours I've watched. >> Yeah. according to again you have to go with the Islamic narrative right some people say well that's just later tradition uh surah Nisa chapter 4128 if you want to open up you I'll give you the context 4128 you're going to see the context here yeah chapter 4128 if he opens it up I don't know I would recommend a browser but I don't know which one uh the one I have uh for the >> is in the Quran >> yep watcher 12 chapter 4 128 not 1 to28 Sorry. 128. This is the context of the passage. I'm going to explain it here. Now, if you're not a Sunni, you can reject this. If you're a Quran only Muslim, you can reject this because this is based on the hadith. Because if you want to know, okay, what was the context of these verses? They have what's called Nuzul, the occasional reason of revelation. So, you got to go into the commentaries, you got to go into books, and they, oh, this verse was revealed because of this. But that's not in the Quran. So, if someone wants to reject it, they'll say, well, it doesn't say so. He'd be right. But then I'd say but turn back say well what's the context and how do you know when was this composed? If he tells me sixth century I go well the Quran doesn't tell you sixth century. How did you get that? Oh from the same sources I just quoted that you rejected. >> H interesting. So you go to them when need be. But when it disproves your point. No it's now suspect. But these are the same sources that told you that this is revealed in Medina and at this year because the Quran doesn't tell you. But nonetheless, if we read it, here's the thing. And if a woman fears from her husband contempt or desertion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them. And settlement is best. Now, what is that about? If I go to the tradition, Muhammad had at one time 11 wives, even more than has God allowed for others. If you go to chapter 4:3, the Quran, you don't need to turn there, but 4:3, it says you can have two or three or four wives if you if you can be fair. If not, have one. But then it says, "And as many as your right hands possess." See, that part is not emphasized. So the Quran allows unlimited concubineage. It's why you'll hear stories when you have people who go to Saudi Arabia to be maids. They don't know they're signing up for sex. >> That's part of the deal. Because in Islam, if you are a maid or a servant, the man has conjugal rights to sleep with you. You're signing up for that. That's in chapter 4, verse three of the Quran. It's there. I'm write it, you know. Don't get angry at me. and put a hit on me or my friends and write it. >> Quran 4:3 >> chapter 4:3. If you want to show it to him, then we can come back here. You'll see >> a maid. >> Yeah. Well, it's called your right hand possesses, meaning that which is under your control, whether a servant or a maid or anything here for and if you fear that you will not deal justly with the orphans of orphaning, then marry those that please you of other women two or three or four. But a fear that you'll not be just, then marry one or those your right hands possess. Right hand possession means your your concubines, you're free to have as many as you want. But if you want to marry, you can only have up to four. But it doesn't tell you, okay, the four plus the slave girls or the maids. That's authentic Islam, Sunni and Shia tradition. There's no because it's in the Quran, right? So that part seems to have, you know, been glossed over. I guess many people didn't get the memo. So when you go ahead, brother, >> I'm just I'm just curious how how so many I know you're not political, but how so many of these Ilhan Omar and all these uh women of Muslim faith like they're my body, my choice, and everything, but then every single thing in the Quran is antithem like those 72 virgins. Sam, for every guy that goes and has all these virgins, like what type of life is it as a as a Muslim woman that you die and your eternity is up there having sex with all these guy? Like, it doesn't make any sense to me. >> Well, it does one of two things. It makes him leave Islam or remember if you've been convinced he that Allah is God and this is the only religion. Well, hey, what choice do I have? >> You see, understand? >> Yeah. >> What? Okay. If I have been duped and beyond any reason of doubt, convinced this is true. I'm stuck. What do you want me to do, Vinnie? >> Yeah. >> This is what how Allah, hey, Allah does what he wants. I'm just glad I'll be there. I won't be burning in the fire. See, this is the Why do I say you have to be careful demonizing all Muslims? Because many of them are victims of the system, >> right? And I don't know, but I was going to say some, but anyway, they're victims of the system. But coming to the explanation, I mean, explain 4128. Now remember, how many wives can uh the Muslim have? >> Two, three or four. >> Yeah. See, you can have two, three, four. >> Okay. If you could handle it and be >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Muhammad had 11. >> 11. >> When he died, he widowed nine. Now, what makes it more tragic and disgusting? This is why I cannot believe if someone knows Jesus, he'd leave Jesus for Muhammad. So, I say, if you want to really get people to never consider Muhammad, say, "Look what Muhammad did compared to Jesus." Jesus's beauty will show you how disgusting these teachings are. Right? Focusing on look at Christ. Look at in fact comparing Muhammad to Paul the apostle a glorious holy servant of Christ and all he was was a servant. If you see his lifestyle and his purity he makes Muhammad look filthy and by comparison just Paul who's not our God in the flesh. But nonetheless not only in 4128 if you go back did Muhammad treat one of his wives unjustly. Every single wife of Muhammad after he died could never remarry again. That's in the Quran. You cannot have his wives after him. So he left some of them widows. Aisha was 18 they say and others in their 20s widows and some of them lived to their 50s without ever being able to marry have children. This is what he did to them. And you're telling me he's a mercy unto mankind? Seriously. And what does it tell you about a man who had nine wives and couldn't get any of them pregnant? Right? They say that his first wife, Khadijah, that was his first wife. She was 15 years a senior. She was actually his boss. He used to work for her. If we go with the again, remember we're going by the Islamic narrative. She he used to work for her and she was so impressed by his conduct, she proposed marriage and he married her. According to Islamic tradition, she was a wealthy merchant woman because she had married two wealthy men and they died, left their their fortune and he used to be a caravan trader for her. So he she was his boss according to the Sunday tradition. He married her when he was 25, she was 40. And so she supposedly motherthered all his children, but every son he had died as a toddler. None of his sons lived even to adulthood. Now he only stayed with her until she died. Now I'm going to explain to you why this is significant. After that he went crazy. He started just collecting wives. All his children not only the sons died as toddler but even his daughters who got married later died. The only child that outlived him was his daughter Fatima who then died six months later and she was married to Ali Ib Abu Talib who his first cousin and hence you get the Shia and Sunni divide >> because Muhammad's lineage is traced to his daughter Fatima because she gave him two grandsons Hassan Hussein. This is where the Shia trace. So this has significance with the Shia and the Sunni. They don't get along. Fatima right Ali who supposedly the rightful successor Muhammad but he was robbed. She gave him his two grandsons because he had no boys. He had no successors. Hassan Hussein the family line of Muhammad supposedly comes from that line. But with that said, [clears throat] oh supposedly he got Khadijah pregnant when she was 40. Okay, we'll give him that. The other wives, he couldn't get any of them pregnant. But then he had a sex slave, Maria Altia, Mary the cop, sent to him. He supposedly got her pregnant. She gave birth to his son, Ibraim, and he died when he was two. Okay, so maybe something happened. He got lucky with her. There's some questions whether that's was really his son, but we don't get into that. My whole point is of all these women, he only got one woman supposedly pregnant after Khadijah son who died. None of the other women who can get pregnant, not even Aisha, who married at nine, left them all childless and widows who could never remarry again. And he's a mercy unto woman. Where's the mercy in leaving these women without a husband or children for the rest of their days? That's merciful. Women have needs, right? They want companionship. They want intimacy. They want children. And he left them with none of that. And you're telling me he's a mercy unto mankind. Now, to show you how cruel he is, that's where you're going to come 4128. Now you're gonna see the cruelty of Muhammad. Now you're gonna see how this man is considered a mercy. And I have no idea, man. If he's merciful than you and me, Vinnie, >> we're in trouble. [laughter] >> My goodness. Now it says, "If a woman fears from her husband contempt or desertion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them." Now the context is bin Zama, she was an older wife of Muhammad. Now when he was married to Khadijah, he never got married. When she died, it says that then he multiplied wives. Second wife was Aisha. My memory fails me if it was Salama, the first one. But nonetheless, he married her among the 11 wives, but he was no longer attracted to her. This is in the Muslim tradition. I didn't write this >> Bkari Muslim. You know that they're writing this, so I don't want people to condemn me to hell. They can look at any commentary. And she feared that mom was going to divorce her. There's even a hadith in Bkari that says she would go out to the call call of nature but because she was a huge fat lady you you you know you wouldn't miss her you know it's at her right hey what are you doing we can see you right so it describes as a huge fat woman fat lady so she's a large woman and an older woman she feared Muhammad is going to divorce her so she made a deal with him keep me as your wife but you don't have to visit me because part of the deal was he would have to visit these wives on successive days. But the Quran says it's up to him. He can choose not to. You know, I'm not going to see you. I'm going to see you. The Quran says it's up to his discretion. That's chapter 33 of the Quran versus 50 to 51. >> Which wife you want to see and which wife you don't want to see. >> Yeah. Up to you. >> So there's not a set schedule calendar you have to follow. >> So that means you be thankful if he chooses to see you. Be grateful. So she comes to him and says, "Look, don't divorce me. Keep me as your wife. Now remember, each wife has to have her own house and she cannot go out unless there's a need and with his permission. So can you manage your under house arrest pretty much? You can only go if it's a need or he gives you permission. So he has 11 wives, 11 homes. They have to stay home until he says you can come out. Or if it's something really like, hey, I got to run to the toilet. Okay, this woman said, "Don't divorce me. Keep you keep me as your wife." And the day assigned to me, you can give it to Aisha. So Aisha had two days, >> the nine-year-old. >> Yeah. And he left this woman in a house all by herself the rest of her days. And the Quran says, "Good agreement. If you agree to it, no problem." So his God said, "That's the deal. Go with now." Why did she want to be his wife? See, this is again because the Quran says that all of Muhammad's wives will be his wives in paradise. So, she was hoping that if he didn't divorce her, she'd end up with him in paradise. See the mindset? Please don't divorce me. Let me die as your wife. So, at least in paradise, I'll be your wife. And he left this woman alone in a house without, you know, and having no children with her. All because he was not attracted to her. And she knew it. And she said, "Don't divorce me." Now, if Muhammad was merciful, you know what, a merciful God and a prophet would say, "What are you crazy? I love you just as much as the first day I laid my eyes on. In fact, I love you more." What do you mean? No, you're my wife and I'm going to honor you. Oh, okay. Good deal. Let's go for it. And it's sanctioned in the Quran. See what it says? If a woman fears from her husband contempt or desertion, there is no sin upon them if they make terms of settlement between them and settlements best. So, if you agree to this, all right, good deal. Go with it. But who wins in this deal? The men. The men are winning. The women are getting abused. I don't know how in the world this guy is a mercy unto mankind. And when people tell me respect my prophet, how can I respect such a man who has not only destroyed the people around him? >> Sam, how much when you walk in the streets, how how often have Muslims approached you? You know, what kind of a threats are you getting when you're out there saying what you're saying? Interestingly, Tik Tok and Instagram, the clips made me famous. Not because I wanted to. So, if I'm going places, I'll get recognized. But Muslims, even if they recognize me, will try to avoid me, you know, because remember, they unless it's a fanatic wants to kill me, they're not here to kill or go to jail, right? So, if they even recognize me, they won't come up to me, right? Because again, this stereotype, not all Muslims are killers, not all Muslims are terrorists. So, I haven't run into the >> 10%. Yeah, >> I haven't run into them. >> Got it. >> Yeah. So, thank God. >> Yeah. No, that's a very good thing. It's a very good thing. By the way, in in regards to us Assyrians, >> uh you know, the story about what happened with us, you you're you're a good storyteller. You know how to break things down. Well, >> I don't know if I can. What What happened to Assyrians? We used to have a country, you know, the fall of Babel. [clears throat] What what happened to us? If you're asking me from a theological perspective, because Old Testament history, because it's not just prophecy, it's history. Well, we're told in the book of Naom, if you're asking me now, just as a Christian, >> are see the political landscape from the revelation God has given because that's the only source I have, right? I mean, if we can conjecture all we want, your opinion is just as good as mine. But if I believe the Bible's God's word and this is God's perspective, he's reality. The Lord will often destroy nations who've reached a limit of sin of how much he tolerates. The Bible says there's like a debt ceiling. There's so much sin he tolerates and then that's over for you. So we're told in the book of Nahim, this is the judgment of Nineveh. He says because of the Assyrians being steeped and it's not just Assyrians. See this thing it God says this with all the nation. You can just start reading from Isaiah chapter 10 on all the way. You're going to see all the way to 19. God is talking about the judgment of all the nations like you know the Moabites, the Ammonites, the Babylonians because why? God owns them all. This is where people must read the Old Testament. They go, "Oh, this book is Old Testament and he's a God of Israel." If you read the Old Testament, God keeps saying, "I'm the God of all nations." The reason why I'm working through Israel is to move them to worship me. This is the theme in the Old Testament. In point of fact, I want to ask you guys a question as I answer this one. When was the last time you were told that there's another group said to be God's people? in the Old Testament besides Israel because you're told that Israel is the people of God, right? >> When is the last time someone told you that very Old Testament says there's another group that is said to be the people of God? It's the very passage every Assyrian his mother quotes that talks about Assyrian Egypt. In Isaiah 19:23-2, specifically 25 goes, "Egypt my people, Assyria the work of my hands, Israel my inheritance." Mhm. >> Does that sound like a tribal god? He says, "Egypt is my people." So when we read the Old Testament, sometimes we're misreading it due to particular theological dispositions or political points of view. The God of the Old Testament is quite clear. The response of Israel was to be his priest to lead the nations to him. And do you know the one group of people that are the most attacked in the Old Testament >> are the Israelites. Now, what what that tells me is this is a brutally honest record because if you're making up stories, you're going to sugarcoat things, right? >> Are you talking about the forgotten nation of prophecy by >> John? No, no, I'm not the book. Okay. He wrote a book. I'm talking about Isaiah 19. >> I get that. But he talks about that in the book, right? So, >> yeah, he's trying to focus on a certain I actually met him. I think he went to be with the Lord. Good man. >> I don't know if he's still around. I saw him years ago. But my point being, I'm not talking about future per se. God in the Old Testament talks about the nations and his love for them and his desire to save them. He doesn't talk about Israel. The role of Israel in the Old Testament as I'm preparing to answer your question because I want to give a context to the Old Testament because if I just say, well, God says he's going to destroy Nineveh. Oh, look at this this Old Testament. No. God says to the Israelites, you see what I do to nations? I'm going to do worse to you if you don't tow the line. Mh. >> That's why I know this book is, look, if I'm making up a book, I'm going to make myself look as good as possible. The people that are the the thorn in God's side that God has the hardest time with are the Israelites. So that tells me this is a brutal brutally honest record that's not trying to sugarcoat and make one people superior. On the contrary, God keeps reminding them, don't you dare discriminate against the Gentiles. If a Gentile comes to live in your midst, treat him as a native Israelite. He's not less than you. And I can give you the receipts. So with that in the context, because what is God's heart for Assyria? He doesn't want Assyria to die. Isaiah 19:23-2 tells you there'll be a highway between the land of Egypt and Assyria. And then they'll come and then he goes, "Assyria, the work of my hands." The book of Jonah is all about God wanting no nation to perish, not even the Assyrians, because he said to Jonah, "Give them 40 days." 40 days and the great city will be destroyed. But when they turned to national repentance, God turned back from his wrath. And then Jonah says something interesting. If you go to Jonah 4:es 1 and 3, if you open up specifically too, look what he says. He goes, "See, I knew this is the kind of God you are. And that's why I wanted to run because I wanted you to destroy them because I knew if they repented, you would forgive them. Cuz that's the kind of God you are. You don't want anyone to perish." His hatred for the Assyrians was so great that he knew if he reached them and they turned, God would spare them because God loves all people. And this is the God of the Old Testament because people always go to the New Testament. No, I'll show you from the Old Testament, it's the same God. So if you open up Jonah chapter 4 vers 103 you're going to see it. So this is the context in which I will put the book of Nahim Jonah 4. Look at our and Jonah knows it. Now when I look at you handsome warriors I can see why he wanted you guys wiped out. You are a thorn in his the sight of his people. But look what he says. Jonah 4:es 1 to3. You can open up just Jonah chapter 4. Yeah that's it. You don't need to put chapter 4. I think you just put Jonah and then four. He's like, "Man, I can't keep up with this guy. It's not my fault you're not As a Syrian, brother." [laughter] But to Jonah, this seemed very wrong. And he became angry. Angry at what? He didn't destroy the Nvites. >> He didn't kill him. Kill >> he didn't destroy all the Jus, right? He prayed to the Lord. Isn't this what I said, Lord, when I was still at home? Meaning, isn't isn't that what I reason myself that if they turned, you would spare them? Now, why? That is why I tried to forall by fleeing to Tarsish. I knew that you are gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love. A God who relents from sending calamity. Now Lord, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live. He hit depression that you didn't wipe out the enemies of my people. You see, the God of the Old Testament doesn't want the enemies of Israel to be destroyed. A very timely message for today. He wants all peoples to be saved. I want you to see this Old Testament. The God of the Old Testament says, "I don't want the nations surrounding Israel to be destroyed. I want them to turn to be saved because I created them and I love them. They're my creatures. Don't you dare look down upon them because they're not an Israelite." Jonah's the one who wanted to wipe them out. But then God gives him a lesson, a parable. It's it's scorching heat if you read it and we won't need to read all of it but just and then he makes a gourd miraculous to give him shade and he's ah comforted then he commands a creeping crawling thing to not and it withers away overnight and then it says that the heat pounded him and he's like God let me die from this heat now look what God says look we're going to read from verse 8 when the sun rose God provided scorching east wind and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint he wanted to die and said it would be better for me to die than to live because of the heat. Now watch verse 9. But God said to Jonah, "Is it right for you to be angry about the plant? You're concerned that a plant die, huh? A plant. But you didn't give a damn that over 100,000 people were going to die. You had more concern for a plant than a human soul created in my image." That's what he says, right? Is it right for you to be angry about the plant? It is. He said, "And I'm so angry. I wish I was dead because it was, you know, shielding me from the heat." But the Lord said, "You have been concerned about this plant, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight." Now watch. And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh in which there are more than 120,000 people who cannot tell their right hand from their left and also many animals? You didn't want me to care for them because they're your enemies, but doesn't mean they're my enemies. Don't make your enemies my enemy. Just like I created the plant, I own it. I created them. And I didn't create them for destruction. I created them to live. See, this is the heart of God. This is God. So when I tell you what he did to the Ninevites, it's not because he hated them. Because God does it to all peoples. He even did it to the Israelites. Their judgment was they were exiled out of the land the first time and the second time because of the rejection of Jesus said it because you rejected me I'm going to reject you. Temple will be destroyed land will be destroyed for over 1900 years they were left in exile. What sin does the Bible say they committed that would have resulted in them being exiled for over 1900 years? Because the sin that result in destruction of the first temple it says bloodshed uh immorality idolatry. So then he brought the Babylonians right started around 604 first deportation at 597 then 586 they burned the temple and destroyed Jerusalem but he returned them 70 years. So no matter how great their sin was it only lasted 70 years but whatever sin they committed during the second temple was so heinous that God scattered them for 1900 years. That means their sin during that period was greater than their sin in the first period. Now, what's the point I'm trying to show you? God does to Israel what he'll do to the nations. See, he's impartial, unbiased, and fair. Just because you say you're an Israelite doesn't mean I'm going to wink or look over your sin. No, all of you are my creatures, and I'm going to hold you more accountable. Do you know why? Cuz they don't know me. You do. >> That's what he says in Amos chapter 3. So, I'm going to give Bible here. If they want to argue with me, say, "Hey, Amos, can you rewrite this? I don't like what you said." In Amos chapter 3 verse 1 and 2, he says to Israel, of all the families in the earth, I only know you and that's why I'm going to punish you for your sins. Amos 3, here's the word that the Lord hath spoken against you, oh children of Israel. Against you, oh children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, you only have I known of all the families of the earth. Therefore, I will punish you for all your iniquities. No, I'm not going to give you a free pass. your judgment is going to be worse than the Assyrians and who don't know me. See, [snorts] this is the God of the Old Testament. So, why did he destroy Nineveh? Because sadly, God doesn't have grandchildren. So, you can claim the faith, but the faith is yours. It's not your child. Unless he believes and continues, your blessing won't be your child's blessing because if he turns from the Lord, then that generation will be in wrath. So although the generation of Jonah repented, the next generation went back to their polytheistic paganism. God says, "Now I have to scatter you." So number one, they were scattered because God only tolerates so much sin before he brings judgment on a nation and replaces them. This is in scripture. I mean, I can show you. It says, look, uh, why didn't he, for example, why didn't he drive out the Canaanites at the time of Abraham? Mhm. >> He says it because because the sin of the Amorite has not been made complete. If you go to Genesis 15:16, he says, "I'm waiting for their debt ceiling to hit." Genesis 15:16, it says it. I can open up Genesis 15:16. So he waited 400 years. Now that tells you the mercy and compassion of God. So Genesis 15:16. And the four generation meaning 400 in the context it's four generations 100 years your descendant will come back here for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure warning there's so much sin I'll tolerate from a nation but I'll wait patiently to see if you're going to turn but he's already telling them he won't they won't but I'm a fair god I don't just rush to judgment because I don't want anyone to be destroyed it's going to take them 40 years when I say enough is enough I'm done I can't handle 400 years. You know what that means? Each generation of children grew up to be just as wicked as a generation before. And if you want to know their atrocities, he mentions in Leviticus 18. Leviticus 18, he tells them, "This is what the people did in the land." And that's why the land is throwing them out. And he says, "Israel, if you do the same, I'll do the same to you." And he says what they did. Beastiality, incest, homosexuality, infanticide. He goes, "Because of these sins that I put up with for 400 years, I'm disgusted. They got to go, but I'm going to evict you if you do the same thing." It's in Leviticus 18. So, this is the context of the punishment of all the nations. But who comes first on the list of punishment? The Israelites. Why? Because the greater the blessing, the greater the accountability. The more you know, the more you're accountable. So, if the Assyrians didn't know God like Israel did, yeah, they'll be punished, but who do you think is going to be punished more severely? If you have two sons and you instruct one son not to do something, but you didn't tell the other one, and they both do the thing you don't want. You'll be angry with both, but who will you be angry with more? The one you told, right? God is telling Israel, "You're the ones who are making me more angry than any other nation. Cuz you know better." They don't. And you're supposed to influence them. But what you're doing is you're driving them away from me. How are they driving people away from God? When you go worship their God, you know what you're telling them? >> My God is not a big deal because if he was, I wouldn't be worshiping yours. I like your God better. So when you do that, what are you telling them? That I'm a god that doesn't compare to theirs. So this is why he destroys the But now, why? Well, it's the opposite. Even though we don't have a land, the fact that we haven't wiped out is a testament of God's goodness to us. We survived, brothers, we've survived impossible odds. Not only did we live under the yoke of Rome, then later became the Zerastrians. A lot of people don't know that in the fifth century, even the church at large ostracized us. They condemned us as heretics. So when I say us because the church of our my our ancestors, what do I mean? This is going to be related to your question. So I have to unpack this in the 400s because of notorious remember I mentioned notorious because he was accused of teaching there are two persons of Christ the Assyrians were now identified with that teaching so the church at large says you are heretics you're not Christians the hell with you so now we didn't have the backing of the Byzantine Empire but we're under the duress of the Persian Empire then Islam rises so we had it bad from every angle so now I'm going to ask you how do we survive against impossible odds if Christ wasn't preserving our people. Do you know at one time in history the largest church in the world was the Syrian church of the east? >> Mhm. >> This is a fact. We reached all the way to China. They even found Aramaic scripts script that is attributed to the the notorian church. But notorian church is a church of your ancestors, my ancestors. This is a testimony that God has not abandoned Assyria because if he did, you wouldn't be here as an Assyrian speaking your Assyrian mother tongue and the Assyrian church would have been wiped out of the planet. >> So, so what are the likelihood that Assyrians get a get their country back in the middle of Iraq? Similar to what Israel did. What's the likelihood? >> Ah, V, you're talking to a guy who's [laughter] very pessimistic. Okay. >> Yeah. But, uh, >> how how was how was your relationship? I saw you and cuz we had Marmari here, we had you and we had >> uh wonderful. Yeah. And we had Jenko here. It's a great conversation. >> I'm trying to find a way to put a leadership type event together for Syrians to come together. >> What happened with you and Jenko? >> Well, I don't because your platform is huge and [crying] for people want to find out details, they can. But I want to say something and I know George going to listen to it. Two things about George. He's Christian and he's a Syrian and because of that I love him more so I love him because he's Christian. You can be Christian and I love you. He is a passionate young man. He reminds me of me over 20 years ago when because I didn't have I'm not saying he doesn't. I'm just saying myself I didn't have someone to disciple me and I was just learning and growing in my faith. Right? So and I became very passionate. See, there's something we call the beginner's zeal, where you think you've discovered something and you become so zealous, you want to convert the world. But in so doing, you do more damage than good. >> That was me. That was me back then. That was me. I did a lot of damage because I thought I knew better. Hey, man, you're pagan. What are you doing? Hey, what you got? I didn't know, but my intention was sincere. George is a bright [clears throat] young man who loves Jesus Christ, and he's going to grow and be on fire for the Lord, but we got to give him time. Just give him time because only God knows what kind of knowledge you'll have when he's 53. Remember I'm 53. So give him some time. It was a misunderstanding and that's fine. So >> have you guys spoken since or no? >> Not really spoken but I wouldn't mind speaking to him because I have no animist towards him. I can't for two reasons. Number one because he's Christian. >> What was the issue? The issue was about you know the traditions of the church because if my journey is very complex I came out of >> purely over traditions that's all it is. >> Yeah it's uh these traditions that these ancient churches hold to you know like the Eucharist becoming the body and blood of Christ or Mary perpetual virginity. >> Why do you guys believe it's not in the Bible? See that's where I was 20 years ago. >> One thing I can tell you guys this is a fact. The more you study church history the more you're going to see this is a fact. Before God, I will answer if I'm lying. The ancient churches that have been there from the beginning, and I'm going to tell you the change of Catholic Church, I know that's demonized by the world. I don't care what the world thinks. Syrian church, Eastern Orthodox, or Oriental Orthodox, these churches have been there from the beginning. And the fullness of the truth, the correct application Christianity is found in these churches. Sadly, they're in schism. I came to that conclusion studying church history, meaning the second, third, fourth centuries of what Christians taught. I was shocked. It troubled me. And people know me can testify. I had a dilemma in my hand. Either all of these Christians were heretics, which would be blasphemy because that means Jesus failed the church. That's blasphemy. Christ said he'd be building his church. The spirit would be guiding the church. And the apostles will appoint leaders filled with the spirit to preserve the truth. And Christ taught this will be an unbroken chain. So they cannot be false teachers because that means then Christ failed. That means they were the true Christians. But then they taught stuff that as a Protestant I was taught are false heretical doctrines. So that left me in one or two. either they're false teachers and happening or my teachings are not ancient, not biblical because we're misunderstanding the Bible. And so it took me 10 years to want to just say, you know what, I got to go back to the ancient churches. And so that shocks a lot of people when you're taught solos scriptor to scriptor. >> That's the pure conflict. Yeah, >> that's it. There's nothing more than that. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm a big fan of him. Very big conflict. >> God bless him and preserve him. >> I'm a big fan of you. Uh, I think he is an incredibly uh un because when you think about the Assyrian community and you think about Avengers, you said something very interesting earlier which I fully agree with. You said, you know, if I want to debate an atheist, I'm the wrong guy. Bring somebody else because I don't know nothing about a I didn't study atheism. But if you bring me against Muslims Quran, I've studied it. I'm a good guy to come in. But I've know guys that are u millionaire Christians who know nothing about the Bible and I know you know that whole thing that you're talking about, right? >> This is a this is a guy that was mainstream youth with Logan Paul in that entire community as an Assyrian guy who chooses to chooses his faith over fame. Walks away, does his thing, and is doing his best to be amicable with everybody. I'm I'm so impressed by him and his wife what they're doing. And then with you, I I I see you as a as an animal. You're a very unique animal. Very uh extremely necessary. Um >> because I'm shaped like a buffalo. Is that what you're saying? >> No, man. There's something very different about you. There's something very different about you that uh you're you're a complicated human being. >> No, no, you're No, no. You're you're very complex because when when I when I publicly said I want to bring you on, >> I wish you could see what text messages I get, what things people send me. You have to watch this video. You sure you want to have this gun? Do you know what happened with him in his past? Do you know all this stuff that sent my way, right? >> And I get it. I mean, you know, I'm I'm not uh uh you know, this guy's not a representation of this. That guy's not a representation of this. Listen, I don't know why God uses >> complex human beings to do the impossible. I don't know why, but he's always done that. Okay? If you would have told me, you know, who's going to be the guy that's going to go up against the establishment, it's going to be a guy like Trump. I would have said, you know, you're out of your mind. But he chose him. >> Okay? Is he a man of faith? Is he going to go out there and, you know, sit with you on a conversation about Bible and he's going to be able to hang? No, that's not him. Is he a guy that's going to be No, but watch what he's doing right now with all the different dealings. I think he chooses complex people and I think you're a complicated individual yourself, >> but brilliant. Th those two typically go together. You look [clears throat] like you want to say something. >> No, I want to comment. Um, the Bible pretty much tells you why he does that. So, no man becomes a center of attention but Christ. The Bible says he takes broken vessels so that people will know the power is not in you, it's from God. Because God does the impossible with individuals that no one would think would be possible that they could be used so he can get the glory. This is in 1 Corinthians 1 18 and 31 says it right there. 1 Corinthians 1 18-31. God wants to show his glory by taking humans who are oppressed, rejected, looked down upon so that people know that can't be him. There's something in him that's doing it driving. So he gets the glory. So [clears throat] that not only does he get the glory but no man becomes an idol. See this is what has been disgusting me on on the social media. Everyone who has some type of gifting in the eyes of others draws a cult following. >> And this is wicked and evil on the side of God. >> God doesn't want cult of personality. He doesn't want idols. He wants you not to focus on the person because he's going to disappoint. I'll disappoint you. Right? In fact, even now as you're talking about it, I as I said coming to this broadcast, I've never been attacked spiritually in my life than prior to this event. Stuff of my past, my ex-wife, lies and slander being used to discredit me. That hasn't happened to me in years. There's something about you and your that Satan came after me. I got so tired I almost wanted to give in. I said, "Man, I maybe I shouldn't be here." I It was that bad. So, the warfare is real because we are imperfect. In fact, if you read the Bible, the greatest characters of the Bible are some of the worst sinners imaginable. >> Mhm. >> You go look at David. David committed adultery, murdered the man to cover up his sin. Go look at Solomon. Go look at it. Because God is telling you, look, your eyes shouldn't be on them. Their flesh like you, they'll disappoint you. Be on your eyes be on me who works through sinners to give you hope. That if this sinner can be forgiven and be used, I can use you, too. And secondly, as long as you keep your eye on me, I will exalt you. But if you exalt yourself, I will have to humble you. Because I'm not putting you in the business to have people be your followers. >> I'm putting you in the business to make them followers of Jesus Christ. And I'm going to give you a principle from 2 Corinthians where Paul says he was afraid he was getting puffed up because Paul was a super apostle. He did more m He says it, I've done more miracles than the other apostle. He wasn't boasting and I reached more people. But then he says something. This why he's my hero. When I read Paul, man, he's my hero. I can't hold his sandals. And he was a maggot in comparison to Christ. But look what he says there. 2 Corinthians 12. So someone I mean the man, he just wanted to be forgotten and wanted everyone to see Jesus. He didn't want you to focus on him. Stop focusing on me. Focusing on the Lord who loves me and saved me and didn't give me what I deserve. here 2 Corinthians 12 look at 6 to 10 what he says now he's talking about the context says he's talking about a man and he's talking about himself by the way but he's talking about him third person because he doesn't want attention he goes I know a man whether in the body or or not I don't know if he I left my body or my body who 14 years earlier was caught up to the third heaven par it's him but he doesn't want to say it's him and he but he doesn't know did God take me in my body or is it an out body experience. It doesn't matter. He saw inexpressable things, things that cannot be expressed. Now, look what he says. He gives it away basically. For though I might desire to boast, I will not be a fool, for I will speak the truth. But I refrain. Here's the key. Lest anyone should think of me above what he sees me to be or hears from me. See that line right there? >> I don't want anyone to make me a superstar. So, I fear when I tell you the things I've done, you're going to idolize me. I don't want you to idolize me. See, that's why I have to be careful what I say lest I impress you to focus on me and I will disappoint you. That's what he's saying. I don't know of any Christian. Myself, I disappointed so many people. I don't know if I'm right. I always think I'm right and they're wrong. But that's the other side, too. They're right. We're just biased. >> Yeah. >> Now, watch what he says. Why do sometimes God allows you to struggle with demons? Here's the wisdom of God. Unless I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of revel meaning unless I thought I was a super Christian because I was getting so much revelation more than Peter and John lest if you look at me I'm the man. So when people tell me I'm brilliant it's not I'm trying to be fake humble I don't want to believe it cuz I'm afraid I'll get puffed up. >> You understand? >> Because the same gift that God gave me can take it away. But here I want to not believe I want to finish this. A thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted by measure. Concerning this, I thing, I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. God, I can't handle this. Remove this agent of Satan. He doesn't tell us how Satan's attacking him, but Satan attacks, but he doesn't tell us how. Was it a disease? He doesn't say, >> "Yeah, >> he goes, but God, I can't handle it." Look at Jesus's response. I pleaded with the Lord three times, depart from me. And he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect weakness." Now, the depth of that one statement. "My favor is all you need to endure. I'm not going to deliver you, but I won't let it consume you. I will preserve you through it, but I'm not going to take you out of it." You know why? Because I want you to know you're nothing without me. When you realize how weak you are, then you're going to appreciate it's my power. It's not you. That's the wisdom of Christ. And that's why he says, "Therefore, most gladly I will boast in my infirmities." I won't talk about how great I am. I'm going to talk about how weak and wicked and useless I am. Why? So that you know it's the power of Christ that's giving me the grace to do this. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities and reproaches and needs and persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong. Then I know where my strength lies. Not in me, not in my money, not in my political [clears throat] connections. That's all going to go. But if you have Jesus, that's forever. See, this is why sometimes we go through hell to remind you, hey Patrick, get off that horse, brother. I'm not saying but get off that horse. >> You are what you are because I was pleased to put you in the right circumstances, but I can take it away like this. >> I fully believe that. Uh, this was great. I wish I had more time. I got an 11:30 meeting I got to run to. The guys are texting me. I would like to do another one with you because I probably have >> 20 other topics I haven't gone into, but this was this was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it. Uh, where can people I do think you're on MKNA. Did you guys talk about Mana? >> They want to set me up on that. >> Okay. So, we're going to put the link below for Maneka. I'm sure a lot of people are going to want to talk to you. And then where would you like people to go to to learn more about you? >> Uh, that's a good question. If they can handle political incorrectness and a lot of back and forth, they can go to Shimunion. Sha M O N I A N. Like I said, it's going to be a lot of your website or >> Yeah. No, it's a YouTube channel. >> Okay. But like I said, a lot of controversial issues, things uh coming up that unfortunately has to come up. But there it is. See that fester? That's my twin brother right there. >> Is it really? >> No, I'm joking. >> Yeah, right. >> Put the link below, Rob, for folks to go learn more about you. I look forward to our next one. Truly, I look forward to it. >> This was an amazing conversation. I'm so glad we did it. I'm glad you kept your word and came down because I know we've been trying to do this for a long time. >> Yeah. But thank the Lord. And if you have more questions, I'm here tomorrow or whatever day. No, we'll figure it out. >> As long as Vinnie's here doing standup comed comedy, but sitting down, brother. >> I will. >> All right, >> take care everybody. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. >> Hey guys, Vincent Oshana here. I recently released a new shirt for my faith-based line, faith over fear. There's a cross on the front and Hebrewsap 11 verse1 on the back. As Christians, we never seen Jesus face to face, but we believe. That's what having true faith is. Trusting when we can't see. And if you walk by faith, you have absolutely nothing to fear. Go to vtmerch.com, pick up a shirt. We have hoodies. We even have a female line. Rock the shirt. Rock it with purpose. And let the world know who you stand with. Peace and love.