Music Directors Serenata at 2026 Latinx Theatre Commons Carnaval of New Latinx Musicals

Okay, we are back. We are ready to get started with our music director, Seren. So, please find a seat so we can introduce them. Hello. Okay. Hola. Hello. Hi everybody. Come on and join us. Leave your fields to flower. You know, >> every director should be here. H. >> Okay. Come on and join us. So, we're going to talk with our amazing music directors. >> That's right. H. Okay. Hi. Uh, we're going to do a little introduction, but a little bit of like what this is going to be. We're going to just chat with them. Uh, it'll be in conversation. And I'm going to just I have some questions I'll ask and then maybe at the end if we have time we'll just do some Q&A as well. Uh I'm Robbie Hager and I'm here with as composer with little Dende and uh so let's just go down the line and go uh just tell us your name pronouns and what show you're working on and how long you've been with the project. >> Uh my name is Jesse Sanchez. I am not the music director of my piece but I did write Suenos. I'm just here because I do music direct all over the country and so they asked me to be on the panel and I have to be apparently on every panel. >> That's right. >> Um, hi, I'm Izzy. Uh, I'm here with Daydreamer. Um, oh, sorry, she her pronouns. Um, and I actually was a last minute addition to the team. I have only been on the project for about a week and a half. >> Yeah. >> Good morning everybody. My name is Alan Mendes. I use hehim pronouns. Um, and I'm the music director for Fruition. Um yeah, it's also been kind of new uh to the process because the show is really new and so um this has also been kind of exciting since it's the first time that the composer has heard other voices besides their own singing the material. >> Good morning everybody. Uh so excited to be here. My name is Camila Cortina and I had the huge honor to be the uh music director for Eor City. Uh so that's that's all about me. >> Uh amazing. So, I'll I'll share something a little bit of like an experience that I've had with a music director as an actor, which I love music directors because it is the best way to learn music. It really is about like a relationship that you have with the cast. Uh we'll talk a little bit of like your relationship with the director, a composer, but uh I thought about an example this morning. Uh when I the first show I did in New York was Spring Awakening and uh uh Kim Griggsby was the music director for that and the I remember hearing the demos that Duncan Chic sent to us before Atlantic Theater and before the off Broadway thing and an example was the the song [ __ ] of Living used to be much much slower. It used to be it's the [ __ ] of living and it was so sexy and hot and all this. But then Kim along with the director decided this needs to like slap. This has got to it's got to give us the energy of what these boys are feeling in this moment. So then it turned into what it is now. So it was a pretty amazing to to know that how the music director assisted in making that pop with the orchestrator and with the director with the vision of what the show needed needed at that point. So great. With that in mind, I want to uh ask you I wrote these down. This is my first time leading a panel. So >> definitely like leave your comments. Uh uh. Okay. So my first question, how do you begin approaching a new score? And how do you navigate establishing your collaborative rhythm with a director and with the composer if they're in the room? >> Anybody can start. >> Would you like to go? Anybody? >> I'll jump in. Yeah. Um, I think so. I and in addition to being a music director, I'm also a performer as well. I know some of the directors were talking about being actors themselves, too. And I think for me, one of my favorite things to do and what I did when I got the Daydreamer score is I sat down and I sang through the whole thing just so I could really familiarize myself and and know all of the harmonies and the melodies really um like intricately and everything. So, that's one of my favorite things to do when I get a new score. Um, and then as far as like working collaboratively with directors and actors, I mean, that's that's also another one of my favorite parts of the job is just creating that collaborative environment because that's really what theater is all about. >> Um, I'll say that I think the first like if it's a new score, um, I first if it's a composer, my job always as a music director is to honor whatever the composer has written first and foremost. That's what the thing is, right? Um, in terms of a director, you know, I I've had the pleasure of working with so many wonderful directors that, especially the ones that were up here earlier. I've worked with them on musicals, plays with music, plays, all the different things. We can get into that later. Um, but I I really think that it's important to understand what the goal is of a new work and the the particular thing that you're brought out to, right? If it's a 29 hour, is this the 29? Are we going to like sit here and workshop new songs? If so, director, I'm going to need a lot of time to to teach these new songs that even though I already taught all the songs, we need to we need that or are we going to sit here and uh put up a polished presentation to just get a big picture sense? So, just really having an understanding of what the vision is of the creative team, the director, and then being the person in the middle cuz you know, music the the the music is always the the the second uh script, right? You have the script, they have the words, but the music is is equally if not maybe a little bit more important. Sorry playwrights. Um, it is I am one too. It's okay. Um, but it it it really is goes hand in hand and actually a lot of decisions are actually made in the music, not in the score, in the script, right? Like you have a vamp so you're sitting there. So you have to know that stuff and so working with the director um they they're it's their first time hearing it too, right? Uh, same thing. You got to like do tons of work before and work with a music with a composer and know their score. You have to be the genius of their score, right? In order to do your job well, you have to be the person that knows every, you know, left turn, every stop sign, all the different things so that way you can interpret it the best you can. So that way your composer can hear the best of the of the score. >> Okay. So, uh, I have to tell you a little secret. Um, this is my first time doing music direction within the MUSIC THEATER COMMUNITY. >> YES. >> And something something I I forgot to mention uh when we were introducing I've been with this um project since January. That was the first time I joined. Uh I was called because I'm Cuban and I play the piano and I know Montunos and I know salsa. That's my background. and and and well at that point I was just a pianist in the in the prayer and I'm so grateful to to Dan trusted me to come now as music director but the reason why I wanted to talk about that is because it's so different being a music director in theater in music in jazz documentary for something or with dancers I work a lot with dancers so depending of what is you know where are you it shifted completely your responsibilities in this case because I knew knew it would be a new a new environment for me. I was like a sponge. It's like I need to I need to use everything that is available to me. Uh Dan is an incredible pianist. So he was like every single decision I'm double back like Dan what what should we do with this? I'm super grateful to Damas. So because all the point he's like how would you like to treat this? It's like why are you asking me tell me how are we going to try this? So I think uh being open to to all this collaboration and and just allowing yourself, you know, to be one more within the team, it really it really helped to compensate the fact that I come from a different environment. So uh how did I approach the score? Well, I had to learn it, which was pretty hard. So I before I had time to really dig into practicing the score on the piano, I I drive a lot nowadays for my gigs. So I just put it on the card and I listen and I listen and I listen and I listen to at least immerse myself because I know this time although I do agree that music is very important to me it doesn't feel as important as most of my projects because most of my projects are just music in this case it's not just music. So my approach cannot be as like I'm going to try to go for perfection here because we don't have time for that. So there is a lot of things that you have to be constantly it's like checking it's like what are the priorities? what is the music serving? It's like why will I prioritize here given the con context circumstances the fact that we just have four days rehearsal. So it's it can be so different the way that we approach this and and my answer is that it's like you have to be open to understand that there is not just one way of approaching one musical score. It's depending of what the context is, what the time frame is, what is the collabor collaborative spirit, you know. Yeah. what what's the people you have with all those elements will really guide how you approach that score for first time. >> Yeah. I uh I feel like my my background yes um my my back some of my musical background is also in teaching music as well as being an actor and a composer myself. And so when I approach a score of a new show, I think some of the questions I ask uh come from the mindset of how uh the responsibility that I have as a steward of story. And I think that all of us in in theater have that share that responsibility and task of being a steward of story whether we're the writers of the story, the the ones who are teaching it to the performers in the room are the ones who are sharing that story on stage with the audience. And so I think that um in listening to the score and in reading the sheet music um some of the questions that I find myself having are like what's the best way to teach this music to people? What are the what are the skill sets of the performers that are going to be in the room with me? How is the best way of communicating this vision um based off of who's going to be there and based off of the resources and the time that we have or don't have to bring it all together? >> Yeah, it's amazing. It it kind of feels like the music director is the messenger of all information a lot of times. Uh and it's a pretty intense uh job to have and sometimes a bit of a thankless job. So thank you music directors. you know, uh I think it says it says in the program, which I love, that there should be a Tony for music directors. And I fully agree because the amount of work that you have to put into it's actually more you it feels like you have to go home and do extra work after rehearsal to really plan what the next day is going to be if you're going to teach up some music, especially if it's really hard music. Uh so that's pretty incredible. I think uh the other thing uh what core music directing practices or toolkits have served you best and how do you how do Latina rhythms, vocal styles or cultural nuances shape or shift those approaches? >> I'll go first. Um so I there's two there's two things I want to get at. Um I have had such an amazing experience as a music director. Uh I've worked on Hamilton. I worked on the Prince of Egypt when it first started. Being in the room with Steven Schwarz. Um, but I like to say I come from the Alex Lackmore School of Music. Um, but it actually starts with the Joseph Church School of Music, which is an amazing amazing human. Um, if I think every single theater artist should read, if you're so curious about what music directors actually do, um, Ellen Minkin read this forward. Uh, Joseph Church wrote this this book called Music Director for Music Directing for the Stage and it's like one of the only books out there by Joseph Church. It gives you so much insight. Um and many of those uh principles and those practices are there. Um uh so for me, you know, I I think that um for for the longest time, I always felt like I was the only one uh especially in musical theater, right? Plays of music are a little bit different. Uh I have done the I have done In the Heights 25 times now. I keep forgetting. Um, since the book came out, when the book came out and and everything was licensed, I got calls from every single director, people who were fancy, people who weren't. Jesse, oh my god, you're a Latino music director. Please come and music direct it. I literally did it everywhere from the time the book came out for for uh to be licensed. Um, and it was amazing, but I was like, where are Latina like music directors? Where are they? And it's so awesome to see you all. Um uh and and you know big shout out to Muse if you're ever interested in looking at for more you know people of color bipok folks who are music directors composers go take a look at that maestra who also have a ton of other places and organizations that you can look for people um uh but it is so essential right every time I look at a at a creative team sorry hell round and out there in the world it is so essential that just like a director if you're going to steward this musical along and it And the DNA is Latina. So is the music and our titles are music director. It's music goal, right? We understand especially like, you know, I I'm I'm not Cuban. I'm not Puerto Rican. I am Mexican. I'm Chico. But I live closer to Kumbia than most of those white dire music directors do, right? Um so it is important when especially the re the rhythm, the feel it. You got to have a certain pocket. It is not boomchuck. It is not, you know, snare drum and that kind of thing. So really understanding and feeling that that is our responsibility as the music director to make sure the vision comes alive, right? Um so that's just kind of what my response is to that. >> Yeah. I think I think for me a lot of it just comes down to um respect for the material. And to me respect for the material looks like research on the material and like education about if this show is set in in Cuba or in Key West, like what sort of rhythms uh do we want to be there? do we and I think a lot of these are are questions that the composer has also probably asked themselves right how much are we going for very similitude of time and place and how much are we doing a fusion of something that um that isn't necessarily leaning into that sort of way so I think that that's also like an important uh decision that everybody on the creative team needs to make so we can figure out what that decision is moving forward when it comes to authentic representation of various rhythms and time periods I think it it really does come down to an appreciation for and an education about what that what those distinctions are. And I think that as Latina artists, we we are primed to be aware of it because often times we live in a a place of recognizing a difference uh relationally. Oh, this sounds different from the rhythm that I grew up listening to. But that means you grew up listening to a rhythm. And I think that that already sets you apart from um folks who who perhaps aren't thinking with that kind of percussive relationship to music. Cool. I I I think I'm going on the on the same note. Um because the music direction like the responsibilities and the role can be similar you know guy leadership teaching but then we have material that require the Latin background and that's when things get really interesting and the reason why I'm here. I was like if you have asked me five years ago I would be doing music director for musicala I would tell you no way. And then Dan Dan shared a score what I feel identified, right? I I I hear where he's going. I hear the connections. I hear the blues. I hear timba. I hear all that. It's like, "Oh, wait a second. I I I feel there is a space for myself here." And it's it's so interesting because the way we see most of the AfroCaribbean music are super nasal. So I'm there all the time talking like prioritize rhythm. That's that's all on me. Because if you're trying to voice collocation is that you're late already and and I know it's it's completely different that what the approach would be in another setting but again like you know that sounds as like loose it up put me that rhythm if it's not 100% the note it doesn't matter you know I need I need that rhythm. So it's like and I think that's what this kind of repertoire and what this kind of uh projects really bring to the table which is like I don't think music theater schools are including this type of repertoire you know so it's like exactly so if you have this repertoire that bring new challenges that bring community that know how to bring this flavor it's like it's our job right to try to make it how can it can we make it more authentic otherwise it will sounds like we are trying to replicate whatever music theater glitches are already established and it's very hard to compete with because we are in America, you know, we're not going to get better at doing American things, you know, like like the people who created so right now I think we've been having that conversation across like with Buenav Vista for instance there there is a door that have opened a large audience to our music >> and we should take full advantage of that door you know to really take our chances and put a little bit more of the sounds kumbia Roomba, Timba, Afrobascilia, and Panamanian. That was killing last night. I totally love it. So, it's now, guys. Now is the time to bring those rhythms in and do the work to really honor those traditions and put them in the best way we can. Yeah, >> I think I think for me too, I think my teaching is definitely a product of the mentorship I've received and I've been really grateful to have a lot of great mentors. Again, shout out Muse and Maestra, um, the amazing Angelo Ortiz from the Meister program and Alejandro Senor uh, from the Muse program. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so those have been two really, really great mentors for me. Um, and not just like mentors, but also Latina men mentors as well. So, people who know also like what that feels like to be a person of color in a predominantly white field. Um, and then I think as far as like incorporating Latina roots into more music, I think a big part of that is adaptability as well. And like how can we adapt these different rhythms and styles of music and everything into that predominantly white field as well, especially when you're teaching people who maybe don't have as much experience with that. >> Yeah. I think one of my favorite things is bringing in somebody who has never done theater, who's incredibly talented, into a music team and then you fall in love with theater and you're like, "Oh, I want to do this." You get a sense of like what this community can do and it's like, "Why haven't I been doing this for longer? There's so many musicians that I've brought into, you know, I actually one of the guitar players, Katy Mayorga, who's amazing, uh, I did a reading of Little in New York and I was like, I just I saw her on Instagram and I loved her playing. I was like, "That's exactly the sound that I'm looking for." And I reached out to her and she's like, "I've never done theater, but I'm interested. Give me more information." And then since then, she's only been doing musical theater, >> including some of mine, too. >> Yeah. Have you? >> Insane. And I That's my favorite thing to be like this. There's a community here for you, too, and for our music and for our identities. So, it's I love I love that you're now a part of musical theater. So, welcome. >> I'm not going back. I'm not going back. >> We need you. >> Don't go back. We need you. We need you. We need you. Okay. Uh, how is I love this question. How is a music creative team typically structured across different stages of development and what does each role do? >> Do you want me to go? >> Experience with that. >> I'll just I'll just give an overview and then you guys add in. Okay. So, with a new musical, there's always a music director, which is the person who will most likely end up staying with the show and conducting the show as well. They're just as important as a stage manager. A lot of times stage managers get their cues off of a music director beat. Um there's a music supervisor who manages the whole music team and make sure that you know the music director can worry about the music and the music on stage and then the music supervisor is the person who can like coordinate all of the whole music team. There's then also a copist, right? A copist who's super important that works >> so important >> like incredibly if you thankless job pay more. >> Yep. Yep. um uh who works with the composer and the music director and music supervisor to make sure every musician has their sheet music on their stand, right? That every single thing is is edited just like a script supervisor, but a script supervisor for like the band. Um there's a music assistant, shout out to music assistants cuz I think a lot of us have started there. They are also another thankless position where they sit next to the composer, they sit next to the music director, they do literally anything you need them to do and it's it's like an internship for them. It's amazing. Uh there's also then the orchestrator, right, which takes the music of the composer and then comes in. He's they are pretty much one of the last people who come in and then they put they set it all to instruments. And so that that's kind of like the big uh and then there's like arrangers, right? There's also arrangers, there's dance arrangers. So the music team is huge. Sorry producers of theaters cuz that's why it's expensive. A big part of it is because there's so many people to make the thing that goes up on stage. All those scores that you know and love um that you continuously produce, you know, other shows, carousel, all those things. They had all those they had all those music teams and that's what you need. You have to do it otherwise then you know well we can keep going on that but >> can you actually quickly talk about like the difference between arranger and orchestrator? >> Yes, this is the best question. So arranger is such a loose title, right? because you can be a vocal arranger. So basically, you take something and say Robbie here gives me a melody and he's like, "Great. Here's the melody." And he says, "Oh, wait. I want this harmony, but he's going to probably write it in his two in his where his voice sits." Then I'm probably going to take it and he says, "Oh, I would love this to be for the ensemble to sing this moment." Or I don't want it to be my voice. I would love for a soprano and a tenor to sing it. So then I sometimes the composer does it but but I will arrange it so it fits to whatever the thing is so that way it sounds good and then Robbie will come and say I love that or I hate that. >> No, I love it. >> And then we try something different, right? We try something different. So that same thing with the music, right? We can take, you know, a beautiful 10erson score uh orchestrated but the theater or the the 29 hours giving us only three instrumentalists. you help arrange the things and take the things that are the most important from the full score and you know if there's a composer in the room then you also do that kind of thing too. >> Yeah. >> I think that one of the things too that's um interesting about being a music director is you a lot of times you kind of wear all of those hats at the same time. You know you're um not just teaching the music, you know, but you're making those changes in the room. You know, you're figuring out what instrumentation is needed and not only what instrumentation is needed, but like Oh, thank you. switch. >> Um, not only what instrumentation is needed, but like what do the actors need to hear so that when we bring in the whole orchestra that they can pick up on those cues and they know what melodies need to be heard in that. Um, I did a panel or I I sat in on a discussion with Julie McBride, who is the music director for Lost Boys right now, I believe. And one of the things she talked about was all of the the unsung orchestration and arranging work that she's done in the past for different projects cuz a lot of times you're just making these changes on the fly and um a lot of times a lot of times music directors don't get credit for that. But um but yeah, it is I think being a music director you kind of just do a little bit of everything. Yeah, >> I agree. >> I mean, I think there used to be a time when to be a composer was to also be an orchestrator, right? Like when Beethoven or Mozart, at least in the European traditions, would be writing music. They're writing music knowing what instruments they have in mind. And that in the musical theater world, um, specifically for larger budget productions, that's not always a requisite. You're able to write the song, but then it's up to the orchestrators or the arrangers, um, to to set it. And actually my contact with the the language differentiation is that the arranger is the one who will change either the chord voicings or um tempo kind of stylistic changes and it's the orchestrator who will determine what voices whether those are human voices or instrumental voices that are communicating that vision. Um both of which and and in many cases the two of them tend to be intertwined and I know that for smaller budget productions that's a lot of what I've done at the same time. Um, some of my work has also been as a band leader. Like I have this jazz band and we do jazz covers of show tunes. Um, and so a lot of that is like how do we take Think of Me by Phantom of the Op, you know, from Phantom of the Opera and make it sound like a tune that Ella Fitzgerald would sing and then how do we take that and set it for a six piece band with three horns and a rhythm section, right? And so, um, >> what's the name of your band, by the way? Like we can >> Yeah, the Schubert Alleycats. >> Follow them on Instagram. >> Follow us on Instagram. We're a fun time. We play weddings. Um and so I think that for early like uh depending on where you are in your career or depending on where you are putting on your show um as a music director I have found that some of my work has also included being that arranger orchestrator figure of taking some of that music and um wearing those those many hats which is why producers like we are we are wearing multiple hats and so uh you're you're getting a good deal um but we should be getting a good deal too, right? >> I promise we love you producers. We love you. Just want to say real quick too, we are one of the only um members of the team including the directors and behind the scenes that don't have a union. So I just want to throw that out there. That's where we are. Uh orchestrators do. They they fall under AFM. Uh the musicians union, but music directors, we do not have a union. I'm we're not we don't get a contract like a union contract or anything like that. Directors and choreographers, they're together and they're hanging out. Uh makes sense. Uh we don't. So I just want to put that out there as well. Are we starting a union today? >> So my pitch here at this moment that that calls your name. >> There we go. >> And I think that conversation should start. Let's go. >> Let's go. >> Can we hear from from Camila as well? Cuz I mean obviously you haven't like in a musical theater capacity before, but I'm sure you've worked with like arrangers and orchestrators and like other >> Well, actually most of the time that that's that's what I'm comfortable on actually. I love orchestration. Um I it comes supernatural to me and again in in the music world just music is is is easier you know because there are not too many elements. The challenge that I have found here is what you were mentioning is the the many hats like the first time that I was part of city we didn't have the amount of people that we have right now. We have assistant director we have a stage manager we have the first time there was like a director Dan was there. I'm sure that before I came uh to be a part of the team that have to wear like five hats on its own. So what I'm trying to say is like at the end it's all about money and budget. You know if you have the budget to have the large creative team awesome but most likely if you're listening to me right now here it means that you haven't get that budget yet. So yeah I don't know I'm guessing. So that's that's where the challenge is like you know you're going to wear the 10 hats at the same time and it's going to be extremely stressful but that's the only way to get at some point farther alone a little bit of money. So be aware that it's going to be tough for a little bit and and yes you might need to be the assistant director the director and the composer have to be the pianist the orchestrator and everything until somebody can come aboard you. So it might be the case. That's all. >> I have to agree like there for the beginning of anything that I've written, I've always been exactly that. And it wasn't until we got into residency. One of my shows got to two of my shows got into the O'Neal and when I saw what I could have a music team, that's when I learned what a music team was. >> Oh my god, it felt so good. Just right and not have to do everything. So it is a a big relief. Um, awesome. Okay, next question. Uh oh. actor. Okay. Actors arrive with varying levels of formal music reading. How do you adapt your teaching method methodology to support both fluent music readers and ear learners seamlessly? Can can I start with this one? Um, so yeah, I mean I think that before finding theater, I I was a music kid. Um, I was in like the all the bands and ensembles in when I was in elementary, middle, and high school. And so, um, I grew up with a lot of the vocabulary of like Western European, um, you know, music music vocabulary. And I think that in the the theater, the musical theater world, especially nowadays, um, that's less of a requisite to to be a successful steward of story. Um, especially as a performer. And so I think that um one of the first things that I like to assess while in the room is like what is the best vocabulary for us to successfully communicate about vision and about story whether that's like we need to have a conversation about like these two notes are staccato followed by tonoodles versus um I know when we were talking about intruition um like there's a a song called wet where it's very intimate and so rather than rather than using prescriptive musical language of you know articulations like staccato and tonood. I would say let's say these for uh the words were um uh slick talk slow grind. So what if we lick the first two words slick talk slow grind. What is it like if you if you find a way of kind of grinding or smearing into those words using using language that is an abstraction of prescriptive musical text in a way that feels resonant um as as we tell the stories. And so I think that it really is just about like what's the best way for the performer to understand the vision that you are trying to convey. >> Uh that's probably my favorite question because that was the biggest shock for me since I'm new in all this thing. And again that music is as colorful as chromatic as hard you know. So I reached there assuming that everybody reads because I would never think that that amount of complexity can be handled by somebody that cannot read. And the first rehearsal the singers were uh he he keep asking me Damaso keep say how are you going to teach this? And my answer is I'm not going to teach it. We're just going to rehearse it because like I we don't have time for this. And as soon as we started Brad, the first bar in is like I have to teach this. >> And that's amazing. >> And then whatever I I took for granted, boom, fall apart. >> I wish I had been in the room to just watch your face. >> NO, NO, NO. >> BECAUSE I know the feeling. >> In that case, I I suck it in. But everything, all his questions were making sense. Like now I understand why he keep asking me about how you going to teach this. And right there my solution was one of the singers, well I think one is here is like this is not my system. I learn music this way and I listen and we're going to go with your way and the other one say I need you to plug this notes out of it. I have my phone. I will record it and it was absolutely incredible, humbling and really inspiring was seeing the growth between Monday and Thursday. people who were not able to read, they learn songs that had at least four or five key changes. You know, the music was hard and when they show up every time you can see whatever system they had, it makes sense for themsel like it's easier if you can read obviously, but it's not 100% necessary if professionalism is willing to compensate and do the work to make it happen. So to me that was a huge learning curve and it's like okay what this specific team of people need in order to get the job done that I have to do then also they like recorded every single part so they can uh they could orally uh think it that was an extra work at there but it really helped you know and and that's something of how flexible you need to be when you have no idea what you're going to encounter you know like we were not part of the I was not part of the cast I don't know the people but what is really nice is when people is willing to do the work and to learn the music. It's easier if everybody can read, but if it's not, it's still possible if people have the aptitude and the willingness to make it happen. And we as music directors need to be very flexible that what you need is what I'm going to give you, you know, because right now I don't have time to teach you how to read music. We don't have time for that. What we have is to learn 20 difficult songs. Whatever system works for you, I'm going to support you with that and and let's pray for the best. And it and it worked. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think I would just echo what Camila said about that. I mean not only like does maybe not everyone she read sheet music, but everyone learns in different ways too. So like maybe somebody learns best by you plunking out things or I know Alan you mentioned this week like uh a lot of your people learned more auditorially because you have a lot of like little runs and things in your show which make it more difficult to plunk those things out. Um, so I think just giving as much information to them as possible so that way you can kind of just cover all your bases. So we've got, you know, we've got our sheet music with everything written out. Even if you don't read sheet music, too. I' I've worked with music directors before actually that don't know how to read music and they just look at the up and down of the notes and when things go up, your voice goes up. When things go down, your voice goes down and all of those sorts of things. So just giving as much information as possible, being as flexible as possible, and also understanding that people need different things, and just listening to what people need. >> Um, I love it because it's the same the same kind of school of thought. Um, I I am lucky enough that I've I've kind of grown up as a music director through all the levels from elementary school, high school, everything, you name it. um to off Broadway to all the different things. Um but you know I I also am an educator first like inside I don't really say this out loud but there's multiple intelligences in the room right and so I always approach my work like that and think about all the different learning the way people learn things so for me uh my practice is you know it's really important you have rhythm and and melody right you have rhythm and melody to distinguish the two separate the two and I do this a lot and actually it clicks that we do I do a lot of word rhythm in the beginning people think I'm kind of But that will stick. Then they can learn the melody. And 29 hours are my favorite because I like to love I love to pride myself on I could teach a score in two in two rehearsals. Ask Lisa. I do it all the time with her. Um and I just do it right. And then so that way we can give more time to the director and that kind of thing. Um and they feel confident because they're not asking about rhythms. They're just kind of figuring out what's that pitch again. They know the rhythm. They know the me the what that is because it's separate. It's a different thing. The other thing I'll just say is that it's super important that the music directors that we're part of the casting, right? It is extremely important. Um, and I'll just say this, it's not not to like, you know, it's because we there's there's things we know the score. We know the musical score and we can hear people and we can say, "Oh, that voice type is is actually this is what it is." We do sometimes have the flexibility, but if it's like again like Oklahoma, it is very specific, right? we got to do the things because we're trying to again still honor the the the creators and what that is. So, it's just important to to be I always kick and scream include me, include me. Um because we are helpful. Um Yeah. Yeah. I I think something that I've learned also as uh I'm an actor and singer first and then but as I've learned with composing and and passing information to a music director or for auditions or actors, I have made it a rule for myself to never send a a side or a a sheet music without a plunk track or without the instrumental so they can practice along with it or me singing or somebody singing. It is it just let's just cut the time. Let's just make them give them the most time that they can rehearse. And same thing with music directors. I give everything that I mean I me personally as a composer I love orchestrating from the beginning and getting everything out and so that you so the music director and the team knows what the feeling that I'm going for for the show and they have as much information as possible. Everything is up to change though. I can't be I can't be married to that as a composer. I have to remember that like it's a collaborative process and if something needs to get cut it may suck but I have to do it for the service of the play. >> Can I can I share a reflection on that? Yes, please. Well, I think that like I I know that having grown up in the and Jesse, I don't know if you've experienced this as well or or those who have grown up with experienced with with reading sheet music, I think that there can be this mentality of um uh kind of educational superiority. Oh, I know this language. I know how to do it. Right. Right. When in when in actuality, oral traditions are a part of so many of our heritages. Right. and and so there's something kind of really delightfully um I don't know uh uh rebellious or or uh resisting structure breaking by saying actually oral traditions are just as valid a way of telling stories and let's find ways and I think that by having the plunk it's a very quiet way of saying this way of learning matters too this way of learning is valid too >> that is so true especially teacher I mean you can't you can't give like mariachi sheet music of course the runs don't make you can't out on the piano it it kills the the dramatic intent of its have to just be taught >> I think on that also so then what uh who are your mentors I know you've spoke a little bit of your mentors but who are some of your mentors and uh how have they shaped your approach to music directing or who are some colleagues you'd love to you look up to or would love to work with >> I mean I I yeah I talked a little bit about two of my amazing mentors already through the Muse and Maestra programs shout out Muse Maestra, they're so great. Such amazing resources for women and people of color. So wonderful. Um, I think also I' I've just been very lucky in my life to have had a lot of really great musical directors and mentors and I've heard so many horror stories of people saying like my music director was like screaming at me or like just like terrible things and I just have been lucky enough that I have not had that. Most of the people in my like people in my career have been very supportive. Um when I went on my first tour, uh Kristen Stole and Eddie Carney, they were the team that I worked with on that tour and they were also both great. I mean, I was just like a I was like maybe I think I was 22 when I went out on that tour and um you know, just like a little little girl in the big city and um they were both just just such great mentors and colleagues to me and so wonderful at including me in that process even though I was like relatively new on the scene and I'm I'm very grateful for that. um mentors. Um okay, so it's funny. Um I come from classical musical school in Cuba. If you want to be a musician, you have to go to the Russian classical system. Even though we don't make money out of it, we just the child, you know, child torture. We're still going to therapy because of it. Uh the what reshaped who I am right now was Berkeley College of Music. they they gave me a scholarship when I thought I I was not I was not good enough for you know and they say do whatever you want you know and that's why I when you talk about oral tradition uh it's so fundamental you know because many of the music that we are trying to represent and now bring to musical theater have nothing to do with reading and then the system been telling you like notate notate how are you going to notate an Afrouban chant you know for changoa you cannot annotate that you have to go to the record you have to learn the intentions the Same way with jazz. I I love jazz. Most of my mentors were jazz musicians because that's that's why I moved to this country to further my my jazz education. And I'm going to shout out to to my female active jazz musicians because again in Cuba all the female mentors, they were just teachers. And nothing against it, but it's so different when you see a woman that you admire that is a good educator and is also a badass in the industry, you know, like with albums, with productions out there. That really inspired me. It's like that's what I want to be. Finally, I had role models, which I didn't have before I moved to to America. And I saw women looking like me more or less like with a very solid statement of what they wanted to do in the jazz scene, which is also very patriarchal. So I feel like one of the ways and the biggest takeaways that they gave me was about the storytelling. It's like it's not casual that you're scared to play, you know, because like you didn't have references and if still the talk about jazz and gender justice is still pretty new in America. Am I in Cuba? It's unthinkable because people don't have electricity and food in Cuba. So if you are in survival mode, you can be talking about jazz and gender and stuff like that because you have way bigger issues in your life. So finally I come here it's like oh I would love to think about all this and my male mentors they were about vocabulary like how to become a badass pianist but the ones who really talk about like the storytelling and why it's important that you are doing the work that you're doing were the women because the women were fighting for the space they didn't have and right now that's have become part of my mission and why I appreciate this community a lot because it's about storytelling and I think jazz need a of the storytelling to get to a wider audience. So that's what my mentors did to me. That's what you all are doing to me right now. So you know mentors and collaborators and yeah that's where things are right now. >> I um I I actually was thinking about this question and I don't think that I have specific um music director mentors but I but I do have a lot of people that I think I have brought with me in the way that I teach. Um, first that comes to my mind is my mom. She was a school teacher and um, when I remember her, I I remember her as someone who cared a lot about students not necessarily being the best, but doing their best. Um, and I think that like I carry that with me as a music director. It's like how can I get the best performance that I can out of this particular performer and meet them where they are? Um, and and uplift them. And I think about like Ed Barrow, one of the music directors in my college um and the ways in which he also I think in uh asked for precision and asked for specificity and the way that um I was in a the Belcanto children's course. Joy Andre Hakawa was the was the director for a very long time. um and we we had contact with so many different languages. And it was through her that I learned about appreciation for different languages and um cultures that were not my own, but how do we respectfully celebrate these other traditions and styles um in with with education and with respect and taught by people who know those languages, know those cultures. And I think about the ac capella group that I was in in college and how we would just enjoy having a fun time and injecting that sense of fun and playfulness into the room that invites everyone to feel a sense of investment in the work. And I think that that's actually such a really big part about what makes our work the play. >> Um, I'll say, um, same. I don't know if I have really like I've learned a lot of lessons and a lot of things from great people out there, Joe Church and Alex and all those other people, but I think my the person who I looked up to that I really saw the thing happen and what got me into it is actually my high school choir teacher. Um, and I I just think that, you know, watching it's such a it's such a unique collaboration um with schools because you have the band teacher coming together with the choir teacher and the choir teacher coming together with the the you know the drama teacher and it's such a unique collaboration that I was like, "Oh, that's so fascinating, interesting." And I re and and my first music director gig was given to me in high school by my choir teacher who conducted uh the orchestra. So, that was the first time I saw the choir teacher actually conduct the orchestra as well. Um, and she was like a hard ass. She was so crazy. But but she she lives in me because she taught me a lot of lessons. And she's the one who first actually said, "Jesse, I heard you're a really good trumpet player. You're coming into this thing. You're going to play Oklahoma." And I was like, "What the hell is Oklahoma?" And she was like, "You better be there." I was like, "Damn, I'm scared." All right, cool. And and I showed up and she and I fell in love with it. I was like, "Whoa." So, there's trumpet, there's uh there's dance, there they're singing in four-part harmony, there's solos, there's acting. That's weird. Um there's like a bunch of this stuff happening and and I and I just fell in love with it. And it was because of her because she saw something in me and she was like, "You're actually a storyteller because, you know, I would talk to her a lot about my grandpa who came the other night, which is amazing." um and uh just the love of music. And so she also needed to challenge me because being in just bands, you you know these scores that you get to play the Oklahoma of the world, they're just so hard. And I remember just like cruising through all the band music and she was like you I see you and you're going to start getting in trouble. Go. And so um so I credit her as my and I carry a lot of my same philosophies, the word rhythm, all those kinds of things and thinking about the person first and who's in front of you. And that's the other thing I want to say too, like you know, we're talking about musicals, but there's a whole other world out there with plays. I've been a part of some of the best plays with music out there and plays uh with Octavio Solis, Sandra Salgado, you know, but sorry. uh other people that I uh Jose Cruz Gonzalez, American Mariachi, I've been a part of so many other things and those actors, they're not musical theater trained, but they sound beautiful because they have confidence because it's a way of of um making sure that we're talking about the person first, right? That if they're a person at the end of the day and they in order for them to give their full self, they have to feel comfortable. So, you know, we also we didn't talk about this, but we're also kind of like emotional support a lot of the time, too. >> Oh my god. >> Right. We really are. We really are. We're the connector. the actors feel comfortable really comes from music directors really and also directors as well but for music and musical theater having a music director really believes in you and says you're going to get this you're going to get there we're going to do it together that is the most confidence you can give an actor so thank you for that too >> I always feel like my my main goal when I music direct is I want everyone to feel like like when I'm playing they can just relax and do what they need to do >> yes because then they can perform then they can actually do the thing right they get past the the the like reciting they can perform, right? So that is the most that is one of our biggest jobs and being that person. So yeah. >> Yeah. Getting past the feeling that you're still like where where am I coming in? Where to the point that's just like I can just act it now. I can just live and breathe the music >> that they're safe. >> Uh exactly. Make them feel safe. >> Exactly. >> Uh okay, final question and then maybe we can do a little questions if we have time. Um whether I I love I love how I phrase these. last night at like 2:00 in the morning. Like this is the question I'm going to ask. Okay. Uh whether it's a classic, a recent favorite, or an unwritten dream project, what show would you love to music direct next? >> I'll say uh Real Women Have Curves the musical. >> Um I actually am directing or musically directing one of my dream projects coming up next the last five years. I'm very excited about it. Yeah, >> man. Um like I don't know. I like I think that to me it's like I'm most excited about learning about a new show and learning about especially if it's new work. I think that's one of the the most exciting things is like oh this is such a such a young thing. How do we uplift both the writers? How do we uplift the the story too because I think that that's I don't know to me that's that's where uh so much of the work happens is in like sharing new stories with the world. Um I was uh I remembering from the first day of the opening ceremony, one of the remarks that was said was something to the effect of like um a relationship between uh existence as resistance. And so so a mantra that I've been carrying with me this weekend is existence is resistance, remembrance is reverence, and retelling is resurrection. >> And so I think that that's something that I don't know. I'm excited to bring into the work. >> Hard to to follow that guys. family. >> Well, I'm in a in a similar boat uh as you. I since I don't know a lot about musicals, I'm not sure I can be like, you know, the music director for for something famous that have been out there. But something that really have inspired me is is the topic that Anita and and and Dan have chosen to portray in musical theater. You know, it's about historical is it's issues that are from real world are thoughtprovoking. And I just would love one day to to have the opportunity to be a composer. Not that not that much as a music director, but also write music for somebody who feels like musical theater is the platform to address the issues that have been addressed by Anita Dan. So I'm very inspired by that. >> I also just want to shout out um the Oregon Shakespeare Festival is amazing and I have to say this because they actually have a music person who's there and who's hiring music people. It's very It's very uncommon. Uh, and that's me. So, uh, music directors, I always I'm always like, where are they? And now I have more friends. So, I'm so excited. You're a music director. Come talk to me. I want to hire you. >> I I'll also say like I mean it's so great that we're all able to be here, but like it's so great that we're all able to be here at this carnival, but like this is not indicative of the world around us, you know? like we are for Latin music directors, but I I think um Eliza, the composer of Daydreamer, and I we were looking at some of the statistics this morning and like the percentage of women, the percentage of people in color, like we still have a lot of growth to do in these sorts of settings >> and they're out there. They just need to get take, you know, we take a take a risk of g getting them on the room and like giving them this chance. They're they're out there. Uh somebody else who's not here is Bruce de la Cruz who's an amazing music director who d music director Suenos. Uh so he's also a part of this panel. >> I sorry I just want to shout out music again because I was a mentor and Bruce was the person who I was paired up with and I've mentored him and I've brought him a bunch and he's been amazing and now he goes and flies off and does very cool things. So shout out to Muse. >> Yeah. No, that's great. Uh okay, I think we'll just uh a round of applause again. And I wonder if we can also maybe make like the way we did with direct is make a list um and then have it online or something that we can people can access it. >> Okay, great. Amazing. David, thank you. >> Yeah. And you can add maybe it's a living document or something. Uh okay. I if we have time like I'd like to just open to some questions and Yeah. Okay. Br. Yeah. Bridget, you have the mic. So Bridget is in charge. Um I just wanted to say that yesterday um for the first time I was able to hear live a beautiful musical that helped me a lot. Uh I play tarango in my state. We're only five tango players. So it's yeah and uh it was beautiful the first time I heard it because it was when I wrote my first play with music and it was here in San Diego and my and the head of the theater department told me you need to Spanish out of the play. >> Yeah. >> No one's gonna understand it. And I was like, "Okay, I need to come up with examples of plays that that mix Spanish with English." But the thing is that the music that I wrote was fully in Spanish. It was different to what I knew at the time, you know, that it's mostly English with a couple of words in Spanish, right? And uh because I'm from Tijuana. Uh that that's what I know. That that's that that's my my experience with my language, right? And uh it it it was a challenge and after listening to this musical to this beautiful beautiful musical it was it changed my work. It changed really changed my work. I believe in Latin American folklore being the newest well being the the key for new progress in our in our work. I believe in choir music, in the ability of improvisation, the ability of having uh fully work ensemble on stage that can manage to play instruments and use their voices and everything. I always write for for that kind of people and I am very excited about that and it's very exciting to see all of you here. It's wonderful to see this work. It's wonderful to know that our voices matter, that our music matter, that we are in the right place in the right moment to bring our work to stage and something that needs to be highly appreciated. So, thank you so much for what you're doing. Uh that that musical in every musical I've seen in in this in this festival. It's just oh, it's so inspiring. Thank you so much for all of that. >> Yes, please. Espanol. Oh, you know, because the language is just not what you hear in words. It's in lighting. It's in directing. It's in set design. It's in costumes. It's in movement. So we have we we for some reason it feels like musical theater has like a strayed from like giving funding to that. So we have to get the on paper has to be super explicit rather than living in the breathing in the silence of of a scene and letting the lighting do the the storytelling. So find the director that's right for you. Find the the designers that you feel are right and just honestly reach out to them on Instagram. That's what I do all the time. >> Definitely. No, it got produced. That was like four years ago. I went to Moes Coffman and he gave me great advice. Yes. >> But yeah, uh it worked and ever since then I've been producing in Spanish. I've been working with a lot of beautiful people and it's been great. But you guys were the example. Thank you for that. >> Hi lovely people. As a composer, I just think that uh I personally think we should clap one more time for music directors. They don't get enough credit. Um I've been very fortunate to work with uh my music director who's also my ranger orchestrator. And so I always say that he has sometimes when you're a composer, they don't want you to bring in a music team, but I always fight for my music director because I say that he is my musical drama. If I have a dramatur as a playright, then I have a drama as a musician because Uh music also tells a story through subtext. Um and you mentioned Robbie How and Spring Awakening. They uh quickened the pace because they felt that they needed it for the story, right? Has there been a moment in your career as a music director that you have uh realized as you are learning this score? Okay. Actually, I think dramatururgically, musically, I need to arrange it this way. And how do you have that conversation with a composer who might have not been ready to take that kind of note in? >> Yeah, I can answer this. Um, it actually comes a lot with the director too, right? I have to shout out the director because the director is sitting there feeling the thing. And one of my examples is actually Kiote. Um, and working on Kiote Novo for so long. We had this song that was in 44 and it was, you know, just kind of long, but um, uh, we had this conversation with the composer about like how how it needed to move to tell the story. We need to hurry up and go. So, actually me and the composer sat like, "Okay, that's yeah, we we feel that." So, we sat there like, "What can we do? Oh, let's let's quicken it." actually let's let's move the text a little bit and put in three four and then move it and that was the the quick solve. So that's some a thing that I can think about that that is like it's it's it's also the director right like the vision of the director as well. Um because you get in terms of pacing you see so much when it when it finally goes up and that actually I always tell I always tell people as a composer I say yes do the edits but don't overedit yourself right because you have to be able to hear the thing before because you might have the most genius thing there and you think it's not working. Wait, let it breathe, right? Let it breathe. Just like good wine. Let it breathe. um and and make a a list, right? I'm gonna change it now or that's a for a later thing. So, yeah. >> Yeah. I think as I I think Jesse, you mentioned earlier as music director, you kind of have to be like the messenger for things a lot of times. And that's not only just as like from like a composer or a bookw writer or something like that, but also from the director and the choreographer or what the actors are telling you, you know? So, it's taking all of these different ideas and being like, okay, how can I like put this into the music and not only do that, but also communicate these ideas in a kind and effective way. And I think a lot of times it's like um just just being very diplomatic about it, I think, you know, and uh I had a conversation with Ben Conn recently, who's the uh the conductor over at Wicked, and one of the things they were talking about is like certain things are on a click, right? Um, but a lot of times they'll hear like, "Oh, that felt so slow tonight." And you can't just be like, "Well, it's on a click, so you know, like what are we what are we going to do?" You have to be like, "That's really interesting." Like why? Let's let's explore why it felt that way. And like what does that add to the story? And like does uh does like taking it at a faster tempo like or like like maybe were we sitting on the back end of the beat? Do we need to sit forward on the beat? But you know, exploring all of those different things. Um and just communicating that. Like I said, just making sure you're communicating that in like a kind way as well. >> You should sell a diplomacy course >> because that's a great >> Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Uh I think Yeah. And if we go more for this uncharted territory of mixing Afro or Caribbean or Latin America uh rhythms to the musical language of music theater, we might encounter more of like this might not be my area of expertise and I need help. So I think honesty is the only space where where we can really navigate. You know, it's like because you might have a lot of experience with musical language. As soon as you put a roomba from Cuba, have a cloud, have a staff, it's like up to there, you know, and you need to be very humble and understand that you might need help from somebody else. And I and if if you are working with somebody that you know might be something like that, you said what do you need? It's like again it's it's about language. It's like how can we find support for what you are trying to portray if it's something that you might not have the most experience with and have nothing to do with that person being great or not. It's like many times just the repertoire and the music and the project just lead you to I have never dealt with this as a composer. So maybe I just have to learn I just need you need to get resources just to go through this specific thing. So if you are counted with people that is honest and is like really committed to the project and not ego based like I'm the director or composer or this situation you can really come across uh communication and and be flexible about things that at the end it's not about me or about the composer whatever it's about bringing the work to really represent what we are trying like we are all in the same team at the end. >> Yeah it's the play you want to service the play thing here. Uh I think we have to wrap up but thank you everybody so much. Thank you, music directors. A round of applause. And uh yeah, we'll look out for that list. Just add names because it's always good to know Latina music directors. Uh I'm going to pass it to Bridget. >> Thank you. Wow, such wisdom. So much inspiration on stage. Thank you so much.