Video summary
Arthur Brooks opens his discussion with a provocative thought experiment: designing a life devoid of meaning. He outlines a specific routine that achieves this, beginning with waking up late to avoid dawn's natural rhythm and immediately engaging with screens via smartphones before eating highly processed foods. This pattern extends throughout the day, featuring remote work where colleagues are merely "squares" on Zoom calls, dating based solely on two-dimensional digital swiping without sensory engagement like smell or touch, and leisure time spent passively consuming YouTube shorts or gaming. Brooks argues that while this lifestyle ensures a person is never bored from moment to moment due to constant stimulation, it results in a life that is "grindingly boring" over the long term because it lacks genuine meaning. To illustrate the difference between boredom and meaningfulness, Brooks contrasts modern digital habits with his great-grandfather Leroy Brooks' experience during the Civil War. While working behind a mule looking at its rear end might have been boring moment-to-moment for Leroy, he was not bored in life because it was real; conversely, many ambitious people today use constant distraction to avoid facing their internal voids. This phenomenon is particularly prevalent among strivers and high achievers who feel uncomfortable with themselves and seek anesthesia through busyness, success, or the need for external validation. Brooks notes that data from the OECD indicates that above-average busy individuals face a higher risk of alcohol abuse than those perceived as "down and out," suggesting that successful people often use substances, pornography, and screens to avoid being alone in their heads during down moments. A central theme of the conversation is the "arrival fallacy," which Brooks explains through his work with Olympic athletes who suffer from what he calls "gold medalist syndrome." This cognitive error leads individuals to believe that once they finally achieve a specific goal—such as winning gold or buying a large house—they will feel worthy, special, and complete. However, upon reaching the summit of their ambition, these achievements fail to fill the internal voids stemming from childhood insufficiency or a desperate desire for internet validation. The alternative view is often rejected by society because it feels like "sucking the gas out" of someone's motivation while they are still climbing; telling people that success won't fix them can seem unteachable and discouraging, leading many to cling to the hope that their next achievement will finally make everything okay. Brooks clarifies that goals themselves are not inherently negative but rather a necessary component of human satisfaction derived from progress, struggle, and pain. He emphasizes that these elements act as macronutrients for happiness and should be taught to children alongside accomplishment. The problem arises when highly intelligent or energetic individuals fool themselves into thinking the value lies in the destination rather than the journey itself. While society often creates a "cult" mentality where successful people pull up the ladder behind them, claiming their internal problems were fixed by wealth, Brooks suggests that this narrative is false and dangerous for those still striving. Ultimately, he warns against confusing moment-to-moment stimulation with true fulfillment, urging listeners to embrace necessary boredom as a sign of living an authentic life rather than anesthetizing themselves with digital distractions or the pursuit of hollow accolades.
Read the full video transcript
Let's say that you're going to design a
life for someone to have as little
meaning in it as possible.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> What would that consist of?
>> It would start by waking up
when the sun is warm, you know, making
sure you don't start your day
like before dawn. Make sure you start
your day when kind of when you get up.
Make sure that if you have an alarm
clock that it's your phone.
Look at your phone before you roll out
of bed, right? Then make sure that the
first thing that you do is eat a bunch
of, you know, highly processed foods
high in sugar. Make sure you get your
coffee in the first 5 minutes. So you
get a big dose of caffeine and make sure
that you're looking and scrolling on
your phone while you're eating your
first meal. That's a really important
thing to do. Make sure that your whole
first hour is neuro is is
neurocognitively programmed to be on the
screen. Then make sure that you have a
remote job. It's very important that you
go to work back in your bedroom.
And and you look at a screen and you
look at a screen all day long so that
your colleagues are kind of
squares on the Zoom screen. And you see
them sometimes and the clients and etc.
etc. And you don't actually know where
anybody lives. You don't have a
relationship with anybody, right? It's
actually better if you don't see anybody
the whole day as a matter of fact. Now
if you're going to date, make sure that
it's it's swipe right, swipe left swipe
left and so that you're only getting a
two-dimensional understanding of the
person that you might want to fall in
love with as well. Like no
multi-dimensional
multi-sensory understanding of who the
person is. Make sure you can't smell
that person. Right? I mean that's really
important because you know, the
olfactory bulb does all kinds of
meaning-related things in the brain. So
make sure you rule that out, right? And
make sure that on your own dating
profile you're lying a lot. That's
important, too, right?
>> [laughter]
>> Then let's make sure that that for fun
that you're spending sort of the evening
not doing anything of of real
importance. I mean you're not working on
a big project. You're not going out and
seeing people. That you're kind of
staying in and scrolling and and
watching YouTube shorts.
And and if you're doing something that's
kind of competitive and
achievement-oriented, make sure that
it's gaming. Make sure that it you know
it's really oriented toward that. So
it's kind of writing your life in
disappearing ink.
>> Mhm.
>> Um and and then go to bed. Make sure you
didn't do any exercise. Important not to
do any exercise at all, right? And um
and then
repeat.
times
for n equals any number that you can
conceive of. So that that that you're
never bored.
You're never bored. But your life is
grindingly boring.
So here's the key. If you want your life
to have no meaning, make sure that
there's no boredom moment to moment, but
that day-to-day and week-to-week and
month-to-month life is boring.
That's what you're actually going for.
As opposed, if you want your life to be
really meaningful,
make sure you got plenty of boredom
moment to moment.
And then then your life won't be boring
at all.
>> That's a strange paradox.
>> It is. I mean my my great-grandfather um
Leroy Brooks. He was born in Olathe,
Kansas. He married the sheriff's
daughter.
John Janes was the sheriff. Was strung
up by Quantrill's Raiders during the
Civil War. Kid you not. This is
Americana in my family, Chris.
And and and and he married Mary Ellen in
Olathe, Kansas. And that's pretty much
what I know about him. But I'm going to
make a a prediction about good old
Leroy. He never came home to Mary Ellen
and said,
"Honey, I had a panic attack behind the
mule today."
Cuz his brain was working the way it was
supposed to.
I promise you that his life behind the
mule looking at a mule's butt was was
pretty boring moment to moment, but he
was not bored. His life wasn't boring
cuz he was living a real life.
But a lot of people today who have
figured out a way by checking the screen
and living online and and living the
hustle and grind culture
that's been engineered
out of Silicon Valley and various other
places around the world, Hyderabad, and
wherever you want,
that not being bored from moment to
moment gives them the most boring lives
possible.
>> Is it the case that ambitious people are
particularly susceptible, vulnerable to
meaninglessness?
>> So,
asking for a friend, right?
>> Of course.
>> [laughter]
>> Of course.
>> Me, too. I'm I'm like a
senior version of you, man.
>> [laughter]
>> Except you're not going to be bald.
>> That's true. I'm going to have to lose a
lot of hair.
>> You're going to have to lose a lot of
hair, I know. If I had your hair, I'd be
president of the United States right
now.
>> I think you would.
>> [laughter]
>> Um
yes and no. So, one of the the the the
problems that really ambitious people
have is that they they they don't know
how to live with themselves. So,
ambition, striving, busyness,
um is is is really a way that people
anesthetize themselves because they're
very, very uncomfortable. So, you know,
one time I'll give you an example. One
time I was talking to a great friend of
mine, um
who traveled constantly for work,
constantly for work.
And and his wife was just in his grill.
It's just like he had kids, and and she
says that I miss you, and and you always
you every year you tell me that this
year is going to be different.
And and I realized, getting to know this
guy really, really well, the problem
wasn't that his
job made him travel too much. The
problem was he didn't want to be home.
He didn't want to be home. He wanted to
be distracted because his life stressed
him out so much.
This is what it's like to be a striver
is is like having this unbelievably
chaotic life.
>> [gasps]
>> And and and you need to distract
yourself all the time. And so, sometimes
your ambition will be distracting you,
sometimes your success will be distract
distracting you, sometimes your your
overriding need to be special or to be
applauded by others is your way to
distract yourself from all the things
that are actually going on, all the
storms and things inside your head,
right? And and and when you have a down
moment, then you panic, and that's when
the screen comes out or or for that
matter that's when alcohol and drugs
come out. There's very interesting data
from the OECD that show that above
average busier than average people are
above average risk and alcohol
and alcohol abuse. So you don't think
you think of somebody was an alcohol
abuser or is an alcoholic as somebody
who's down and out, you know, you know,
bum, right? No, it's more likely to be
an investment banker. It's more likely
to be a wealthy successful podcaster.
And and the reason is because successful
strivers anesthetize themselves with
drugs and alcohol with
pornography, with screens, with anything
that will actually make you feel like,
don't leave me alone in here, man.
I don't want to be alone in there, which
is why they're strivers in the first
place.
>> How often do you think people are
pursuing goals because they genuinely
want them versus because they want
approval?
>> So everybody pursues goals because human
beings, homo sapiens, only get
satisfaction in their life when they're
making progress.
It's the satisfaction is the joy of an
accomplishment, of making progress
toward an accomplishment with struggle.
That's what satisfaction is all about.
That's why that's why goals are
incredibly important and struggle and
pain are incredibly important. That's
what it comes down to. These are the two
things to teach your kids is have goals,
accomplish stuff, and struggle, and
don't be afraid of pain. Those are the
things that you teach your kids and
they'll get a lot of satisfaction.
Satisfaction is one of the
macronutrients of happiness to be sure.
The trouble with that is that if it's
somebody like you, highly intelligent,
super hard working, unbelievably
energetic, then you can actually start
fooling yourself into thinking it's
actually not about making the progress
in the struggle and the hustle and grind
of life itself,
it's actually about if I finally get
that thing then it's going to be okay.
When I finally get that thing. So, you
know, I've I've I've worked with Olympic
athletes.
And and and it's funny because you'll
often they think they're alone in their
struggles and you'll say did you
when you won that gold were you
depressed afterwards and be like how'd
you know? Like cuz it's always true.
>> Every other gold medalist. It's
literally called gold medalist syndrome.
>> Yeah, it's called gold medalist
syndrome. And and what it is it's all in
in in my field in behavioral science
it's called the arrival fallacy.
And the arrival fallacy is just like I I
I I I got to get there and when I get
there I'm going to feel that thing. Now
what was the thing I'm going to feel and
this gets back to your question. I'm
going to feel like I'm worthy.
I'm going to feel like I'm something.
I'm going to feel like I'm special. I'm
finally going to feel like I'm special
and you don't. And you don't.
And that's the problem. That's what a
big part of the survivor's curse.
>> You know what's fascinating about the
arrival fallacy? No one's ever been able
to make it popular.
>> [laughter]
>> The concept.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> Correct. As tell me the most well-known
book on the arrival fallacy that points
it out exactly.
>> Yeah, I know.
>> [ __ ] So I was on my way out to
Australia texting Mark Manson about
this.
And I was explaining one of the problems
I was trying to navigate with the show.
This live show that I was doing. I was
putting together. And one of them is
that a good bit of it is kind of about
the the arrival fallacy. It's a PG
version because I'm aware that it's
chronically the most unsexy topic to
ever talk about. And his response was
good luck. I've tried to talk about this
publicly and every single time it's
fallen flat.
>> I know.
>> It's not just not memetic that people
don't want to
>> Yeah.
>> talk about it. It's not just memetic
neutral that people will accept it and
maybe bring it up and maybe not. It's
actively anti-memetic. People don't want
to hear it and won't tell their friends
about it.
It is
>> No, I know. I know.
>> if saying to people that are still
climbing, which everybody is,
the view from the top of the mountain is
not as good as you think it's going to
be feels like you're sucking the gas out
of that fuel tank.
>> Yeah.
>> While they're still on the way up. It's
like you as a fat person
saying to someone who's starving, well
food's not that nice in any case. And
it's an unteachable lesson. And the only
way that you can learn it is by getting
there. And because the alternative to
this with the arrival fallacy is that
every successful person ever in history
has been inducted into some kind of cult
that pulls the ladder up after them
where everybody gets the same memo which
is so I know that you all of the
problems that you had, all of the
internal voids, your feeling of
insufficiency, the chip on your shoulder
from when you were a child, your
desperate desire for validation from
random humans on the internet. I know
that all of that was fixed when you got
the 30,000 square foot house,
but we need to tell the poors that
that's not the case. So you now are a
part of this elite group of people that
are trying to psych up everybody else
into not trying to strive for it.
>> Yeah, so
>> That's the alternative. Which is or is
it more likely that that's just the
sense that the gold medalists got. And
that's not to say that it's everyone,
but it does seem to be a pretty big
cohort. Way more than the people that
are striving would think it is.
>> Yeah, yeah.
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