“Most People Are Broke!” Lamborghini Salesman Reveals Who ACTUALLY Buys Their Cars! | Ed Bolian

I have found that buying the worst examples of the coolest cars on earth tends to give me the opportunity to let them go up in value. What's the most you've lost on a car? I've never lost money on a car. >> It never gets old. I probably spent about a million dollars on cars. The current collection's probably worth something like 7 and 12 or so. >> Wow. The cheapest way to buy a car isn't to pay the least amount of money. Everyone can afford to own a car that goes up in value. >> How do you effectively negotiate? >> I am fully committed to this offer. And if it blows up on the way past your mailbox, it's my problem. >> So, who do you think of all of the car YouTubers is the worst with money? >> Well, there's one that comes to mind. Um Tyler is making terrible decisions so we don't have to. >> If you have a really tiny, what's the best car that will make it appear bigger? Well, >> Ed Bullan, thank you so much for coming on the Ice Coffee Hour. >> It's great to be back where I get to be in your house this time rather than you coming to mine. >> So, I've really been looking forward to this because you've been correct about nearly every single car that you've predicted is going to be going up in value. We're talking Lamborghinis, gated Mercielago, Bugatti, your Spiker. You just told me that you doubled your money on that one, which is incredible. Your collection so far, to my knowledge, has made millions of dollars. And I'm curious how much money so far you've made buying these exotic cars. >> You know, it's it's hard to say because there's a lot of different, you know, variables because I worked in the industry and so there's a lot of flips that are kind of unrealized. But I I suppose in the last 20 years, I think I probably spent about a million dollars cumulatively on cars that became combined with loans and trades and things like that. And I guess the current collection's probably worth something like seven and a half or so. >> Wow. >> Um now there's still some debt to handle related to that, but it certainly has gone in the right direction and generated a lot of equity. And you know, it's not like I can see the future, but there are patterns, right? And so that's really what the industry sort of demands and invites is some analysis of what works, what doesn't, and what the recipe sort of becomes. >> So, have you now made more money on YouTube or investing in cars? >> Well, if if I were to totally go liquid, I guess it's cars. >> That is crazy because I feel like every single person we have on this podcast makes more from YouTube than their other thing that they're doing or known for. Well, one aspect that's very critical to understand is that my content on VinWiki is not mostly me. I'm only maybe 10% of the content. And I am not forced to buy a lot more cars than I naturally would for the sake of content. So, you know, Stradman is always buying, building, modifying, selling, perfecting, building like his version. Tyler is making terrible decisions so we don't have to. Freddy is in these infinite projects. And so all of those models work really well for content, but sometimes they don't require or even allow cars that go up in value. And so the sustainability of Vinwicki keeping it very lean as a business works because I'm not as beholden to what the cars are to make the content. The stories, you know, are happened years, decades ago in many cases and most of them again aren't about me or my cars. And so that's been great because I've been able to funnel a lot of the money into the cars, which I would have done with however the money comes in, but then I end up at fortunately a pretty good position. >> So, one of the cars you recently purchased I saw was that red Bugatti. It is gorgeous. How expensive is a car? And most importantly, how expensive is that car to maintain? >> Also, you always say buddy. >> Bu you always >> It's that Bugatti. >> Bugatti. >> What color is your Bugatti? You didn't hear that. >> Okay. >> How do you say how how are you supposed to say >> the people from the factory just say Bugatti? >> Boo. It's Bugatti. >> Dude, we've literally had this conversation before in the podcast. >> And Veyron is hard as well because if you if you think about that as a French name, it would just be Veyron. But we're not going to say that because everybody would slap you in your own face. And so I I think that it's Bugatti Veyron is seems to be the best way to say it. Uh but anything works. And >> so it's really Bugatti. >> Yeah. >> Like everyone says it aside from you. Gosh, it's really allowy. Okay, whatever. >> And so I bought it about 2 years ago now for 1.45 million. And the car was the Frankfurt Motor Show car and then it was owned by Birdman of Cash Money Records and he gave it to Justin Bieber. Bieber gave it back. It got repossessed. The bank sold it to Floyd Mayweather. He delivered here in Vegas right before the Conor McGregor fight. And then it was sold to Little Uzi Vert and then a drug dealer in Miami and then me. And so I have thoroughly enjoyed it. I've put about I don't know 15 16,000 miles on it over the course of those two years, which is wildly irresponsible from a value maintenance perspective, but I am loving it. Uh the reason that it was especially cheap in that moment relative to the the coups and I I know it's ridiculous to say that $1.5 million is cheap but that they had gone down about a million dollars because there's only 14 Bugatti Veron Grand Sports which is the removable roof thousand horsepower variant uh in the US and there's 58 worldwide and so of those 14 US cars six of them transacted inside of a year which is grossly beyond the number of transactions that can just crash a market. And so since they were long on, you know, advertised everywhere, it was easier to lowball them. And so I was able to get a really, really good deal. And once all of that inventory was absorbed into homes that where they were going to stay for a while, that kind of allows them to return to the normal. Usually the the open roof cars are about a million dollars more than the coups. And so one of these just sold for, I guess, 3.3 million. >> Is your car worth more because Justin Bieber owned it? It's very hard to say because you know most celebrities and entertainers, hip-hop artists, anybody like that are they don't have a reputation of taking good care of things and so that would generally be a detraction. It is novel and it is interesting from like a cars and coffee story perspective and so initially no but eventually yes. So people are scared of that, but then once the cars are demonstrated to be okay, then the value can go back up because everybody's less worried about what might have happened. So I live car-wise in the world between like totally unacceptable and okay, that's profitable. Okay to good is somewhat profitable. Good to perfect, you lose money. And perfect to like conour everything is is just you're just in it for the recreation of it. you're losing tons and tons of money. And so I have found that buying the worst examples of the coolest cars on earth tends to give me the opportunity to let them go up in value. And and that's where it's all come from. >> So how do you maintain the car cheaply? >> The best thing that you can actually do is drive it. And what I have found is that, you know, when I can put 5 to 10,000 miles on a bad car, it at least starts to validate what it really needs versus what it can probably not have to worry about. and it can give me the opportunity to cosmetically and mechanically recondition the car enough. And so since I bought it, I have spent maybe $50 to $60,000 on three oil changes, um some CV boots, various sensors and things like that just throws a bunch of errors. This morning I was taking my kid to school in it and it threw every error, but that was just because it was mad because I've been driving my cheap Bentley too much lately. But um generally, yeah, it hasn't been that bad. Now, if you go perfectly by the book, it's about 20 to 25,000 for an annual service, about 40 50,000 for a set of tires. They have just released a uh retrofit set of wheels that accommodate Chiron size tires, which I had already done through some fake Chinese wheels that I got for $500 each. And so, I have uh gotten it pretty quickly into a form that it is reliable for long trips. I drove it back from Vegas last year. I've driven it to Miami a bunch of times. I've driven it down to Hilton Head and back. So, I just drove it to Connecticut and back. So, most of the miles are actually on really long trips. >> Should Graham drive his Ford GT more? It's so funny. We were talking about this in the car from the airport. >> So, Graham has a Ford GT. And how long have you owned it? >> 5 years. >> Okay. And what'd you pay for it? >> 306,000. >> And how many miles are on it? >> 7700. >> Okay. So, a 5 to 10,000 mi Ford GT, and yours is white. Yeah. >> Blue stripes >> is 750 grand, give or take. now. And the Ford GT market is one of the most unique exotic or supercar markets for a a variety of reasons. One is there are a lot more of them than most cars that have had that kind of long-term value trajectory. Also, there are very few logical departure cars. And so it's not like this modern, you know, M3, GT3 RS, SVJ, Pagani that everybody that's young watching Tik Tok wants to be their like life history in cars. When you have a Ford GT, generally people like it because they're very maintainable. They're very American. They're very simple, but they're very iconic, very cool. All the accolades that we'd like for a car to be while being manual, fast, makes a great noise. There's a lot of things to love about a Ford GT, but people who have them aren't like waiting for the chance to go out and buy a V12 Lamborghini or a mid-enine V8 Ferrari. They chose to buy the Ford GT and so they're not always tempted to trade it. So, they're not shopping them all the time. They're also generally slightly older and they're very disciplined in their ownership. The other thing that's happened is that because there is a constant engagement in that market, they have gone up very incrementally rather than these huge jumps. So over the last 6 to 12 months, a lot of Ferraris with limited explanation have doubled or tripled in value. In those cases, everybody has to re-evaluate like, am I going to own this car for so much more today than I paid a few years ago? And the answer for most of them is no. I'm ready to take that money and put it into whatever it can also represent. 4GT guys don't have that because they have never just doubled in value in a short amount of time. They go up 10 15% a year. And and that causes that kind of question. Should he drive it? Because if you've got a car that you paid 300 grand for and it's worth 3/4 of a million dollars. Well, that's a different thing. That is a different unit of money. And so the the valid question is well I am rebying the car every year as all these new results print. So should I just hold on to it as that store of value as opposed to the recreation you could have out of driving it? >> That's really interesting because that's almost identical to what one of the best investors we've ever had on the podcast says, Chris Camilillo. He says your portfolio that you check your account every morning and all the stocks that appear there, that portfolio that you have, you choose to buy every single day and you need to reflect every morning if you had the amount of money that you have invested, would you pick this exact distribution and and composition of stock? And so you're saying your approach to investing in cars is quite literally investing in cars. It's the exact same thing. >> Well, it shifts most of the time. I hope people are buying cars because it's the car they really want to own because there's nearly no example of any car that has beaten the S&P 500 for more than a decade, you know, and generally that'll only be a short window of time where they do double triple in value and then there's negligible gains for a very very long period of time. So, you need to own something like that because you really really do love it. Um otherwise, as you've talked about, simplifying your life into very standard investments that are easy to monitor, easy to understand, easy to control is the path to peace, but cars are the path to fun. And so there's a lot to be said for, you know, having some allocation of, you know, money into cars. And that's one of the things that we are definitely seeing in certain segments of the market. you know, we we're seeing an explosion of value a lot like but but a bit different from what we saw from 2021 to 2023 in the wake of CO where there was a lot of cash in the market. There were also new car shortages and there was just a lot of, you know, recreational enthusiasm. People picking up different hobbies, embracing, going on rallies or long road trips or drives or tracking or whatever they want to do with their cars. And so we saw a significant rise in the value of all interesting cars. What we've seen over the last, let's say, 24 months is uh a very huge jump in the prices of proper rare stuff. Really, really good collector cars. Ford GTs are in there, but also Carrera GTS, all the V12 Lamborghinis, most of the numbered rare Ferraris, certainly things that are manual transmission, mechanically simple, easy to long-term maintain, but also even in some of these really rare hybridized more modern cars, P1, 918, La Ferrari, and things like that. And so that's been a little bit hard to understand because there hasn't been a more macroeconomic condition that seems to cause it. We just see these cars going up in value because clearly people are building collections and collections of more modern supercars. These cars aren't as old as people who were collecting muscle cars or pre-war significant cars would really have focused on. So it's interesting the time window in which these are going up. And what we have seen is I think there's like 1,800 US-based family offices that represent more than hund00 million. And so a lot of these family offices are allowing younger generations to have a car portfolio. And as long as the cars meet certain reasonable criteria of rarity and significance and things like that, they kind of get to go into, you know, one of these dealers with a gone in 60 seconds looking shopping list and just say, "I want one of everything." And they do that like every day. If you own like curated in Miami, he'll have a 24 year old kid come in with a list of $30 million worth of cars that wants it right now. >> And is that for an investment? Like his family office says, "Hey, we're going to allocate you $30 million. Go and build us a car portfolio that might go up in value 3 to 8% a year." >> Something like that. I'm sure that they aren't tasked with the deployment there, but they're saying, "We believe that this source of cars is probably responsible, and we don't mind you spending this amount of money on cars from them." And I mean, it's an amazing reputation to have for some of these sellers of cars, brokers of cars, dealers of cars, but that seems to be what is happening. And then when you overlay that with just infinite more debt available today if you choose to scale your collection with leverage and which can obviously magnify the gains hugely like anything but when you're you know you're not talking about 2 3:1 I mean you can talk 10 to one leverage in you know a traditional exotic car loan. >> So what cars do you have in your collection right now? >> So I've got the Bugatti a 2012 Veyron Grand Sport. I've got two Lamborghini Mercielago LP 640s. I would say that's my favorite car and I've been telling everybody that they're going to go up in value for 12 years now. So, it's not as though it just you do it and then the next day the internet recognizes it. Like I have sold so many people that I believe in these cars and I've voted with my checkbook an awful lot and my credit score and I love them. I think they're just the quintessential supercar and being big and crazy and loud and dramatic, but also very useful, maintainable. And so I've got an07 manual LP640 coupe, the highest mileage one in the world. And I've got an '09 LP640 manual roadster, also the highest mileage one in the world. And the one with the most accidents. >> How many miles do they have on them? >> 62 on the coupe, 25 on the Roadster. >> That's your entire collection. >> Oh, I've got Oh, no, it's not. I'm sorry. There's >> Keep going. I was about to say missing. >> I've also got the 1998 Diablo SV that was sold out of the Victoria's Secret Christmas catalog. I just sold my Spiker. I have got a cheap Bentley. I've got uh cheap McLaren project we haven't talked about on my on Vinwiki yet, but it's coming. Uh I've got an off-road Cayenne. My wife's got a Mercedes SUV. Oh, and I I I just bought another thing out of Europe, and I won't say what that is yet, but it's it's not that expensive, but it is awesome. >> So, if you had $7 million cash today, would you buy the exact same portfolio of cars you currently own? Now, there's a stage in every single side hustle where the business bank account is simply just your personal Venmo. And the thing is, that works until it doesn't. The moment something goes wrong, there is nothing separating your business from your personal savings. That's exactly why we've partnered with Northwest Registered agent. For $39 plus state fees, they form your LLC and make sure you're actually protected. You get your state formation documents, basic operating agreement with a membership certificate, and an initial resolution document for opening up a bank account. All the paperwork needed to make your company official. And once you are an LLC, your personal assets are generally kept separate from whatever happens with the business. Plus, Northwest gives you your first domain or website for free, and anyone can sign up. They'll even cover the renewal when your domain comes up, so your business looks like a real company forever. And Northwest puts their own address in your filing instead of yours, so your home address never goes on the public record. So, if you've been running your business out of your personal accounts for too long, it is time to fix that. Head to northwestregisteredagent.com/ic today to get started. That's northwestregistered.com/ic or click the link down below in the description to get your LLC filed. So, if you had $7 million cash today, would you buy the exact same portfolio of cars you currently own? >> That is a great question and it is exactly the right question to ask and it is. Yes, this is the stuff that I want. Fortunately, most of my cars are fairly liquid and so, you know, when I look at asset distribution and net worth, would I like to have that much in cars? Probably not. That would be irresponsible. And I saw you got a little standup Dave Ramsey over there that he would scorn me for such things. But um it does tend to make the content world go round and so but in terms of the cars, yeah, it's what I like. >> What about you? So if your Ford GT is worth $750,000 and and all of your other cars that combined, let's just say like $850,000, would you pick this exact same portfolio? Probably not. What would you pick? And I had to buy I I probably wouldn't buy any any cars. >> I'd be investing in index funds, real estate. I'm stuck with the cars because I bought them cheap and you know if I sell I'm going to have to pay tax on the gain so I'm kind of locked into it and they're going up in value. So like I don't want to take a tax hit. I don't need to roll it over into something else >> and it stays allocated in cars. Uh but I justify it now because I I have the car in the background of every single one of my videos. So it's a bit of a prop. If it was just sitting in a garage I would have probably sold it. is not exactly a 1031 exchange for cars, but you can trade them and generally it's this may be a I'm not an accountant, but you don't necessarily need to realize the gain as long as they're, you know, same transactions, especially inside of a dealership. Uh for the same reason that the numbers don't when there's trades, the numbers don't have to reflect what actually is happening. That happens all the time to overallow to cover loan equity or negative equity. So, let's say you wanted a different $750,000 car, like a 430 Scooteria, which is also doubled or tripled in value recently. You could trade them on paper at, you know, $300,000, and that shows no gain, and then they can ACV the car up on their side. >> Yeah. What would you buy? the only car if you said I had to get something else, I would trade my car for either a higher mileage heritage edition for GT or what I would do is trade my car for a no stripe Ford GT because I believe the nostripe cars are highly undervalued. Even if I got a no-stripe car with 12,000 miles on it or slightly higher miles or something like that, I think the no stripe cars are going to hit a million dollars before anything else. But you wouldn't you wouldn't want to have any sort of supercar? >> No, I I think nothing is as good as the Ford GT. >> Well, in that case, you should definitely drive it >> because realistically, the amount of miles that you could possibly put on the car, even if you do break through 8, 10, 15. >> Yeah, it's 10. It's 10 I'm afraid of. It's 10 I'm afraid of, but then I don't want to crack nine because when you're at nine, then everyone's like, "Oh, I see what you're doing. Oh, yeah. You're at 92. Okay, I see the game you've been playing. So, and I know I'm going to keep driving it a little bit. So, >> how many miles are you at right now? >> 77. >> So, I'm going to hit eight in my ownership. >> Uh, like 74. >> So, here's what's going to happen. So, we are going So, generally, I accumulate too many cars and then I want to sell them. and it's really inconvenient to try to sell a bunch of cars just because of the conversations and the access and everything like that. So, I sell them all in auctions on site. So, like last year I sold six cars in one week on Cars and Bids. And so, we're going to do that again >> uh in November on Cars and Bids, but rather than being all Ed cars, they're going to be just Vinwicki story cars. And one of the ones that we're going to sell is one we pulled out of a barn. It's an ' 06 tungsten Ford GT, and it's got a bunch of miles on it. Uh, and it has a salvage title and it's going to be cheap as one could possibly be. Still more than you paid for yours, but you should buy it and and just go put 10,000 m on it. That will have zero impact on the value. Decide then how much you want to own it and then either keep that one and sell the white one or sell it for what you paid for it. >> It sounds like a h it just sounds like a hassle. I don't want another >> driving car. Not really. >> So, what do you enjoy cars for? >> I like the look at them. To me, they're like it's like a piece of art. It's like it's like a sculpture >> walls for posters around here. >> Yeah. But but a car for me is like it's a it's a work of just art. I love like sitting in the car. I love looking at the engine of it. I like the startup. >> I get anxious >> about what? >> There's there's now so much value in the cars that if something goes wrong on it or someone hits me, like I I'm more than insured, but I don't want to deal with it. It's just it's I I I breathe a sigh of relief when I pull my car back into the garage, turn off the ignition, the garage goes down. I'm like, good car save. >> How would you save money on insurance if you want to really minimize your cost? >> Uh, of all the things to save money on, I would strongly recommend not insurance. uh the there are collector car policies that are massively cheaper and so if you can qualify for those based on the areas that you live in and the way you use the cars and the types of cars that you're insuring that is a huge difference. I think I pay about 15 to $20,000 a month or sorry a year on insurance. Uh and which is nothing relative to the value of all the cars, but that that's cuz they know I can only crash one at a time. >> And so um and it doesn't specifically exclude my family uh my wife from driving it, but she's not going to go drive them. She's welcome to, but that she curbs come out of nowhere. So, if someone wants to then look rich for cheap, what's the coolest car to buy? >> I mean, generally the the easy answer is the cars that depreciate like crazy. Your Maseratis, your Aston Martins, things like that. The reality is, and this is the same way that you would avoid the wrong stigma of the car that you show up in, is have a good story about it. Don't just go out chasing the most interesting thing that like you think gets the most clicks or views. Have something that really resonates with you about what the car is or what's rare about it or significant about it or unique about it. And that way like and those cars tend to depreciate a lot less because they're usually a little bit older. And that actually is the cheapest way to do it. The cheapest way to buy a car isn't to pay the least amount of money. The cheapest way to own a car is to have the equity position reflect something positive when you're done with it. So, it doesn't really matter what you pay if it's going to go up in value. Everyone can afford to own a car that goes up in value. And so, the the the best way to look like, you know, a baller on a budget is to buy something that's going the right way in value because of the factors that tend to make that happen. >> What car, if someone has it, just screams that they're broke. Uh, generally anything like I see people have brand new cars. Like if you drove up in a brand new Escalade electric car, like I know it's expensive, but like the amount of money that that's costing is just unconscionable. And I have a car that needs $50,000 tires. And I was and I think those people are just so that's that's saying they they looked so rich to me. I mean, people that are broke. I I I don't know that >> Chrysler 300. >> Well, that's fair. I mean to but I I I don't know that we need to necessarily stigmatize that. I would say that there are cars that scream irresponsible. We all talk about the way that we love cars and the way I love cars is very different than the way that you love cars and the fact that you love your current car in its state with its mileage and >> but it's so easy to be critical of that and the the audience will when you say that you've owned the car for 5 years and put 300 miles on it. They're going to be like you. But you're not wrong. Whatever you mean when you say that you love cars, you're right. And just because my brand of loving cars is different than yours doesn't make me more right. It only makes me more right for me. And so it's so easy to see a car that is stanced out to the point that it can't move or a truck that is pointed to the sky so you can't see what you're about to run into or an Instagram tag on your, you know, quarter window and think that's dumb. And maybe it is for you, but like I just was mceing a an Australian car show. these guys that import Holdens into the US. I don't particularly like these cars. I don't relate to these cars. I don't understand the economics of these cars. But the community of these people is unbelievable. And when we think about the loneliness epidemic in America and the world at large and the reality is that you could buy a marketplace $3,000 300C, put a stupid wrap on it, put your Instagram handle on it, and go, you know, cruise around anywhere and make a bunch of friends that are in your same socioeconomic situation, have your same free time, are complaining about the same kind of things and dealing with the same problems. you are going to make friends for less money than almost any hobby in the world. And the opportunity to just go out and make a questionable decision on a car and then meet people tomorrow to me is one of the coolest things about the car world. And it won't you're not going to do that and come hang out with me or you or anybody different. But you can target those kind of people the same way that you could if you buy a track car and go to track days or you go drive the same mountain roads or you go to Cars and Coffee or you join the Corvette club and you know get your jean shorts and your white polo shirt and your New Balances. like they whatever it is that is kind of the standard issue expression of that niche of automotive culture is one of the most powerful social tools that I've ever seen. the people within those groups are having an experience that is desirable. Yeah. >> And that needs to be fostered and available. And it is so easy to get trapped in your, you know, closed loop screen world AI therapy, you know, just existence where you think there's no opportunity for me to go out there and have a different experience next weekend than I had this weekend. I'm trapped. And you're not because there is this way and a million other ways to go out there and experience the world in a much more interesting fashion. And I think it behooves people to hear like, huh, that is a way that this is happening that's different than just going out and meeting somebody in a chat room. >> What's the best car to get girls? >> Well, where are we going for sushi tonight? I guess the uh >> G Wagon. >> The girls do love a G Wagon. They love a G Wagon. >> I thought it would be a Range Rover. They love Range Rovers, too. They do. My wife's had three of them. And I So, I I literally started dating the girl that would become my wife the same week that I incorporated my rental car company out of my dorm room and bought a Gallardo. And so, I have never used the cars in that form because that was the last first date that I went on. But I uh I I would say that, you know, the the brightly colored Lambos and things like that don't tend to work. But the the bigger issue is like actually getting girls to even tolerate them to be honest. And when I was selling cars at Lamborghini Atlanta, that was a huge thing. Like guys would come like how do I make my wife not hate the amount of money that I am spending on these cars? And you know the thing that I always said is let them drive them. go somewhere where they're going to be very safe, where it's on a highway, wide open, good visibility, easy access, no lights, no turning, no curbs, no nothing. Because the reason they don't like them is that they think that if they engage with them that they'll ruin them for you. If your wife took your Ford GT out and curbed the wheel, that would be an incident. And whereas if you took her up to a nice mountain road and said, "Look, here's how the thing works. I just want you to experience why I like it for five miles. And if you say, "I want to pull over and get out after," I'm going to be perfectly happy. But we're going to put you in a situation where it's very easy. And I promise they'll love it. The cars are lovely. The first car my wife had driven was the $26,000 McLaren like in a long long time. She's driven a lot of the cars, but like she doesn't generally like it. And she loved it. She didn't know how the doors worked. She got stuck in the car. Her friends had to call me, but it was it was okay. And so, and she didn't run into anything. Uh, and I think that if you can create those kind of opportunities, that's what girls love is being brought into this thing that's fun in a way that they can sort of dip their toe in and experience. >> Woodcar suggests that you're secretly wealthy. Now, really quick, I got to say that AI is not just opening new business opportunities. It's literally changing the way businesses get done. We're talking the questions they ask, the decisions they make, the routine tasks that they're able to hand off. That is the entire idea behind today's sponsor, Netswuite Next. The next generation of Netswuite with AI built into the tools your business already relies on. Netswuite Next surfaces insights exactly when you need them. 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Once again, that is netsweet.com/ic. So, guys, it has been over 7 years since I first started working with Graham for free, by the way. And since then, I have invested, I kid you not, almost every single dollar that I've earned, which has let me buy my first house, including this warehouse that we're sitting in right now. But here's what nobody tells you. The more you build, the messier it gets to manage. which is exactly why we've partnered with Monarch. For those unaware, Monarch is the personal finance app that tracks everything. We're talking accounts, investments, savings goals, and spending. Like, without exaggeration, I've spent years doing all of this myself, like tracking every account on Excel spreadsheets, on notes, one by one. It was extremely tedious. But Monarch pulls it all into one place. And honestly, it's what I wish I had when I was starting this out like 20 years ago. Most apps only tell you what you've already spent. Monarch helps you set goals, map out big purchases, and see if you're actually on track before it's too late to adjust. There is even an investment view where you can compare your portfolio's performance to the S&P 500. And uh looking at you, Jack. And it spots stuff you wouldn't even think to look for with AI insights, like has your spending actually gone up or is it just inflation? So write your own money story with Monarch. Use code iced coffee at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. That's 50% off your first year at monarch.com with the code iced coffee or click the link down below in the description to get started. What car suggests that you're secretly wealthy? Well, generally older cars that are going up in value. Like if you see someone with a manual Mercy or a, you know, an older Porsche that we know is rare and desirable, you know, you could see a sea of brand new cars and go, "That dude knows what's up." because he's not experiencing the same kinds of risks of these newer cars. He's got something really really special. Somebody pulls up in a Ferrari 550 Betta, you you need to pay attention. They're going to give you some advice. >> So, when you look for cars that you feel are undervalued that will be going up in price most likely in the next few years. What set of criteria do you look for? So the biggest criteria is always the buying power of the people who thought it was the coolest thing in the world when they were late teenagers. So that means that 15 to 20 years later is the ideal window for the people that had them on posters to start putting them in their garage. So that is usually the inflection point. We're seeing that a little earlier now for a lot of factors, but generally speaking, that's what I would have said. You know, my goal in general car ownership was always to avoid depreciation. >> And I used to say the best way to do that is to look like you won the lottery 10 years ago. And if you look like MTV Cribs 10 years ago, your cars are not going to go down in value. They may break all the time, but they will not go down in value. And so that was the way that I started to build equity to be able to flip up, trade up, and and make some money. When I was growing up, I loved cars, like loved cars. And then I got a little older and I started to work a little bit more and I started playing more pickle ball. My passions went elsewhere. But this last week I had a dream that I was driving a McLaren. And I woke up and I wanted one so badly. And I have never like at least in the past since I could afford a nice car, I haven't wanted one really that bad. Like I thought it would be cool to have a Gallardo or some sort of like cheaper supercar because like Graham says owning a super car in your 20s is cooler than your 30s. his opinion, not mine. >> Yeah, that's what I told him. I I said, "If you're going to do it, your 20s, it's unlike anything else. When you're 30, less special." So, so I kind of sat on that and I'm like, "Okay." The only problem that I have is I do think that it is very like douchy to be driving, especially if you're in your 20s, a McLaren or like some sort of like supercar. I just don't I >> depends on the color. >> That's what I think. >> That is a factor. And there's also ways to do it right. You know, one of the myths that social media and content creation, you know, puts forward is that you need the biggest, baddest, latest, greatest, coolest thing to if you So, if you want a McLaren, it's got to be a 765LT or whatever it is. No, it doesn't. It can be anything. And they they exist. I bought one for $26,000 the other day. A per >> the other day. Yeah, it's a McLaren. >> Yeah, it was a 2017 McLaren GT. Uh 570 GT, so the smaller GT. And I bought I had to buy nine cars out of this collection, but when it all netted out, it was 26,000 bucks for this purple car. And um it was great. I drove it around. My 11-year-old drove it around the neighborhood. It was fun. Yeah. >> Wait a second. No, $26,000 for a McLaren. >> It was in a flood, >> but it but it ran and drove. I sold it for 75 grand and the engine blew up,200 miles later. Uh, but he tuned it overly. Don't don't don't buy a tuned McLaren. >> Wait a second. So, you're saying you could have sold Jack a McLaren for 70s something thousand. >> Correct. Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, if you happen to find another cheap McLaren, like I I've never been the type to to think that I was going to actually buy one, but if the net cost after, let's say, 3 to 5 years, let's say I buy like a 650S, which is what Graham thinks I should buy. Yep. >> Maybe after 3 4 years it could only cost me like 30,000 bucks. I think less than that. >> That's a comfortable downside given that the car is already 11 years old. Yeah. >> Um and so like I said, look like you won the lottery 10 years ago. You probably will experience no depreciation cost. Now >> they're like I said when I've said it earlier, it might break and they do break and they can be very expensive. So the risk of having $30,000 in repair costs is much higher than the risk of having $30,000 in depreciation. But it's cheaper to own than just about anything new. >> Do you agree with the 650S? You think that's a that's a good car. It's reliable enough. >> Absolutely. Yeah, they were so good. I sold them new at McLaren Atlanta. I worked there and so I I love them. 12C's are a little spotty later ones, 13s, 14s. We're running one at Barrett Jackson. I am going to be repping it and making a video about it tomorrow. It's a 2013 12C that sold last year at Jackson Las Vegas for 115 grand, but it'll probably do a little less than that. >> So, what cars today are on people's posters that you think 10 years from now will be collectible? >> So, that was part of the reason why I stretched so hard to buy the Bugatti because, you know, people my age, I'm 40, grew up dreaming about Ferraris and Lamborghinis because they were much more rare. They didn't produce as many cars and so that's why those are the cars that have continued to go up a lot. The people that are younger than me dreamt about hypercars and so I believe that they aspire the way that I aspire to have an aielago to have Bugatti, Pagani, Koigseg and then the hypercars from you know McLaren P1, Porsche 98, Laaf Ferrari and things like that. So I think that those cars are the ones that have nearly limitless upside in the way that Mercy's have 10xed over the last decade. And so you know I think that's real. So why don't you think they've gone up in value more then? I'm talking like Pagani Koigseg because it seems like it's really just those two that are kind of etching up a little bit. >> Well, they have gone up a little bit more predictably. The anomalies have been the less rare cars really in the last 6 months. We've seen this explosion of value in, you know, the special 911s that aren't actually that rare and the mid-enine V8 Ferraris, 360, 430, 458, 488, F8, as well as, you know, F12812, they've all just doubled in value. Um, and so, you know, I think that when you look at the proper rare, proper significant stuff, they haven't moved quite so much. Um, which I think is is interesting, but they're just rare enough they don't transact as often. So, it's not like one sells yesterday for on Bring a Trailer and then everybody on Autotrader just raises their prices so abruptly, you know, it's a it's a different situation where they they sell at Monterey auctions and those were all very very successful. They sold $770 million worth of cars. >> So, let's say I want to proceed with buying this McLaren. I don't have that kind of cash sitting around. I need to apply for a loan. What are the actual calculations behind what kind of car someone can afford? It's interesting because such a high percentage of these cars actually are financed and there are different sort of seasons of how easy it is to do and right now it is quite easy to get loans. Now the interest rates right now are a little bit higher. You're probably going to pay 6 and 12 to 8 and a half% on a used car loan for something that's more than 5 years old. Also, they generally don't do branded title cars, so no salvage title. So like my $26,000 McLaren was not a financable asset, but that's one of the reasons why it was extra cheap. Uh, but the easiest way to look at what it takes is to look at an ideal application. So, ideally, you're going to have a credit score over 740. That if it's anything beyond that doesn't actually help anymore. Um, and you'll have comparable credit where you're not increasing beyond 50%. So, if you want to get a $75,000 loan, you need to have had a $50,000 loan. And generally, you'll need to prove have verifiable income that is beyond the loan amount. So, it's different than the way debt to income is calculated on like a real estate purchase or something like that. Um, and then, you know, terms can vary from anywhere from, you know, 3 years up to 12 and even 15 years on some much more expensive cars. Uh, and then they'll want the loan to value to be between 60 and 80%. So, at least 20% down. Now, obviously, very few loan applications line up perfectly with all of those. And so you can sort of make up for one by doing better in the other. So if you have a higher credit score or better comparable credit or more money down, you can overcome having, you know, a shortcoming in the other criteria. >> I remember something crazy, by the way. When I was 24, I wanted to buy this Lotus Exiege S240, and it was a gorgeous car. I saw it immediately. I had to have it. And uh I had never had a car loan before. No. And so I thought, "Oh, this would be easy. I'm just going to put like $20,000 down just finance, right?" Because I wanted to like both build my credit, but also it wasn't that expensive to finance back then. I think this was like 2013 or 14, >> right? >> And so I applied. I got denied, which is crazy because they said that I never had a car loan of this caliber before. And they had told me instead if I had gotten a loan for like a Miata or a Honda S2000, I could work my way up. And then the dealer said, "Oh, we'll finance you." But I remember the interest rate being like 15%. It was like 15 to 17%. Is there financing? And I ended up just buying the car in cash. But I thought that was so stupid that you have to like build your way up these cars. I had no idea that was a thing. >> It's a thing. Well, and it hasn't always been a thing, but it very much was a thing in 2013. And it's again important to zoom out a little bit and understand what's going on in the world where we're rebuilding from the financial crisis of 2008 to 2011. Really, it was still kind of a big deal. And so at that point, yeah, banks were very very few and far between that would take that kind of risk and just being an older car. >> And yeah, because a few years earlier in 2006, I got a a loan for a Lamborghini at 20 years old by just telling the bank how much money I made. And they didn't check anything just like they didn't check real estate mortgage applications or anything like that. It was just they call them liar loans or stated income loans. And so it was too easy. And then maybe it got a little bit too hard. and uh and now I think we're kind of at a happy medium where the deal needs to line up somewhat. But you know, look, if you've got enough money down and you can't really prove your income or you've never done one, yeah, you can probably find a way. >> So, what is your overall thought right now in the car market? >> I think that there's a lot of cars that are legitimately not desirable by the normal standards of rarity and significance and, you know, condition that that are that have gone up in value a lot and that's troublesome. You know, there's people that are saying that there's market manipulation of foot and things like that. And I don't actually believe that's happening too terribly because nobody's going to go out there and try to manipulate the market on 488s. That's just not they may, you know, there's 20,000 of them. Nobody cares. And so, I think that it is genuine money, kind of dumb money. These aren't going into big collections. These aren't people buying their fifth Ferrari that are coming out on Bring a Trailer and doubling the market because they just know that they're only overpaying by one bid. These are real buyers. And that seems fragile because, you know, if you said if you offered every owner of a 488 $550,000 for their car, they're all going to say yes because they all paid $220,000 like 2 years ago. So, that I don't have a lot of confidence in. The really rare and significant stuff I think is bulletproof. I think there are so many factors like we talked about these big family office mega wealth people going in. The transfer of wealth is unbelievable right now. Uh I had asked super chat GPT how many Americans are going to inherit more than $2 million this year and it was 55,000. So when you think about like the number of what you would say dumb money transactions on Brian trailers, maybe 200 cars have sold in ways that don't exactly make sense, that certainly could be explained just by that factor. So when you add that to more debt available as people are leveraging up their collections and getting more cars as well as just this I mean obviously the IPOs of some of these giant companies are printing crazy. I mean I think there were 600 people in Austin that made more than hund00 million. Wow. on the SpaceX IPO. So, I mean, that's all of the demand for interesting car allocations to that area in Texas. >> What's interesting is that it seems as though the car market is tracking the same, just put this together, with Pokemon prices, I kid you not, when you look at the graph of Pokemon and then it dipped and we saw a similar dip in 2022 when the market corrected, it's gone back up. And what do cars do? They're going back up, too. I'm just saying I believe the two could be correlated in some way or another and we have to dig deeper to see what's driving this. Is it euphoria? Is it the stock market is doing well and people are overconfident? Is it people investing in this because they think it's going to be the next big asset class and so therefore they could spend more on it. Justifying this is like okay I'm going it's going to be an investment. >> How old are Pokémon cards? 20 25 years old. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> They just had their late 20something anniversary. So, it's fair to argue that the people that grew up enjoying these things are now in a much better place and can afford to engage recreationally. Sure. That, you know, that would also follow that 20-year-old exotic cars are going up in value, which they very much are. And so, it's probably sound. What else would trend that way? the certain video games potentially. I mean, you could say that Grand Theft Auto getting popular again, you know, could correlate to the same people that were playing the early versions of the game and are excited again. But yeah, that's a thing. >> Part of me thinks that it's just AI is going to disrupt the market so much that it's even hard to know which stocks are going to end up being the winners and which one's the losers cuz companies can now be built up this quickly. Companies can be killed this quickly if they don't adopt AI. And so maybe all these people that have all of this money on the back, like I mean the rich are getting richer. They don't know what to do with their money. They don't necessarily want to buy stocks at this point. They want to buy something that can't necessarily be affected, duplicated, replicated by AI. So maybe >> a tangible asset. >> Yeah. If the wealthy continue to get wealthier than something that cannot be bought with like, you know, like traded on an exchange or something, something that like a collectible, it's a physical thing. You know what I was thinking? I wondered how much would it cost to purchase a poster or some sort of like collection of every single autograph of every single president. And apparently the autographs themselves are not that expensive. If you collect it, put them all together in a nice display. It could actually be like a profitable endeavor. The I think that that could actually be a decent investment similar to Pokémon cards because there's like somewhat of an art to it. There's there's you have to work kind of hard for So, what's so funny is that I looked into autographs, certain autographs, it's really hard to authenticate each one. So, if you were able to do the work and authenticate each autograph, then I think you would have something there. But that like that would be really really >> in your research, how much would it cost to get all, you know, >> the cost would be anywhere between like 30 and 80,000. Really not that expensive. A lot of president's autographs are just going to be like a couple hundred bucks. And then some of the older ones like an actual George Washington autograph can be anywhere from 5 to 10,000. >> Okay. And have you found any examples of someone selling their collection? >> No. Interesting. But that would be like you could probably put it all together. Let's just say worst case scenario $100,000. Some guy who's got a billion dollars or like hundreds of millions, tens of millions. That's like a history fanatic or like America fanatic. They would probably pay a few hundred,000. I feel like to have every single US president. How cool is that? Well, in the car world, there's always this like rich guy in Dubai idea that like somebody's gonna actually and buy my car for way more than some guy in Dubai is going to buy it. >> He's going to buy it. And so, you know, the person who is going to pay two or 300,000 for something that can be assembled for 80,000. Maybe that is the convenience fee, right? That >> the authentication is kind of the main obstacle. >> If you paid somebody $100,000 as a broker to go out and buy it, they could they could do what you did, right? So it sometimes things are worth, you know, what they're worth on their own merit. And then sometimes they're worth relative to what it takes to produce them. And so if there is theoretically a supply of these things, then you're, you know, you're going to make money from the convenience and the artistry of it and how it's displayed. But I think it's a fascinating idea. Uh more of an arbitrage than a profit, but I like it. So what do you think of the new car market right now and the new cars going up? >> Very unreliable and so you're you're dealing with a lot of cars that don't have as much longevity, cars that are built with different priorities in mind and they are not selling well. So new car sales across almost all marks is are pretty are down. >> What make is doing it right? Porsche is certainly doing it right from a curation of the demand of their customer base to the extent that they're getting pretty exasperated with having to buy a Macan to get a GT3 RS or you know all the things that they have to do. But when when it comes to really maximizing profit, Porsche and Ferrari are doing a really really good job. Um, Ferrari has sort of built, especially over the last 25 to 30 years, a customer base that knows that they're not allowed to say no to anything if they want to maintain their status. And they have done probably about as good a job as anybody short of maybe Hermes or whatever with these part purses to make sure they extract as many dollars as possible out of all of their customers. So like the unit profit is unbelievable that those two are definitely doing it right. Although you would say that most of their latest offerings were less desirable than the one that there's less enthusiasm for them versus but they're still selling them all. >> How do you think AI is going to affect the new productions of cars in the next five or so years? >> You know, it's so easy to say that AI is going to flip over the whole sandbox and that nothing in life is going to look the same 5, 10, 20 years from now. And there's an easy argument to be made that that's possible. Life doesn't feel the same as it did two years ago as AI has proliferated and improved. But I don't necessarily think that a lot of the stuff that we just enjoy doing is going to change. Are we going to have more of an opportunity to do things we enjoy? Probably. You know, if I was going to start a business today, it would be in recreation. We would go under the assumption that as unemployment skyrockets and as we have, you know, potentially an an age of abundance or potentially, you know, we're all just waiting to die. I think that, you know, sports leagues for old people seems pickle ball does seem like the space, right, for entrepreneurism and opportunity. But I think in the car world, we're going to see a lot of efficiencies in production. We're going to see a lot of deficiencies in creativity and in really relating to your customer base. So, you're going to have something that makes sense on paper, but really isn't what anybody wants. And, you know, I run into this issue anytime I get a car that's too good. So, I bought a 2014 Bentley Flying Spur about three months ago and uh it was a $220,000 car and I bought it for 15,000 bucks with 100,000 miles on it and it was a rat piece of junk. But after about $10,000 invested in it, it's amazing and I love it and it's so comfortable and easy and I had two big trips last week. I drove it 2500 miles and I should have driven my much more interesting cars that I don't mind putting miles on, but I don't cuz I go out there and there's an option of sitting in this massaging seat, comfortable Bentley with working air conditioning and good visibility and I just drive it and I'll sell it because I don't want cars that good because I love terrible cars. I enjoy the masochism of driving uncomfortable, interesting cars that allow me to feel driving. When do you think we'll get to a point where different car makes will intentionally decrease the quality or increase the rawness of the cars that they produce? Because we were speaking to someone recently, I think it was Steve Hamilton, that like all of these luxury car makers or, you know, supercar makers, hypercars, they're all kind of becoming the same thing where you're just like throwing as much horsepower in there. Every car make can now produce a car that goes 0 to 60 under 3 seconds. So, like at what point are you going to see car makers try something totally unique or intentionally kind of inhibit some aspect of their car so it's not too perfect for the real car enthusiasts? You know what this reminds me of? I know we've seen this when you look at old McDonald's and old Taco Bells and like Burger Kings. They used to be such unique buildings and now they're all the box. >> Everyone has just done the box because when they move out they could just move a new one in and they realized it's too expensive to build out these custom McDonald's with the things over. That's how it's kind of becoming with cars, it seems. 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Shopify drop shipping was the best and I just kept going back because there was literally no competition. It is the best way to create an online brand and start seeing real sales coming in. Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide from household names like Mattel and Gym Shark to everyday people launching their first store. So if you're ready to hear the of your very first sale today, head to shopify.com/ic to start your free trial. That's shopify.com/ic. One more time, that is shopify.com/ic to start your free trial today or just click the link down below in the description. And they realized it's too expensive to build out these custom McDonald's with the things over. That's how it's kind of becoming with cars, it seems. >> And that may be true. So, it's interesting because we've seen some efforts in that way. We've seen Porsche go all manual on certain cars and those cars sell out instantaneously. They are certainly demanded by the audience. We saw McLaren just released a very limited run, very expensive, nearly $2 million manual car that still uses their twin turbo V8. And then we saw Ferrari want to make a manual and they sort of couldn't because the cars have gotten so advanced technologically that it wouldn't have worked well with the Eiff and with the lightweight internals that they're building these cars with. So they made one that they call the Manuel and it's the 12cylindry. It's a stick, but it's fake. The gear shift is essentially buttons where you move it and it tells it to go into first and then into second. And there is a clutch pedal and it is actually programmed to stall, but it's very patronizing to those of us that love manual cars because like we love them because of the purity and the efficiency and the simplicity mechanically. And you know, look, I think younger kids care a lot less about manual cars, but we care about them a lot. And uh I think it's interesting to see those different effects that we may be in some cases like Ferraris just too far past their ability to give people what they actually want. And you may just run into sort of the wagon dilemma where they just stop existing. So enthusiasts always scream, "We want wagons. We want wagons." And they don't buy them new. They buy used cars. >> So you know I love manual V12 cars but I don't buy new cars. So, no, they don't care about me. My opinion does not matter to these companies. And so, if if all we're willing to do is buy them once they're depreciated 80%, then we really don't count, right? Your opinion doesn't matter in that case. >> You know what I think is going to happen? And people are going to be so pissed off at this. But I think we're going in the subscription revenue model where do you want your car to drive more than 80 m an hour? That'll be $10 a month. Do you want heated seats? That'll be $15 a month. Do you want to unlock your car? Do the remote start? They're already doing that. That's going to be $15 a month. Do you want Sentry on your car? So, you could see it. That'll be $20 a month. And then pretty soon, you could pick and choose every little feature and add a price to it. Everything. Windshield protection is now a thing. I got a popup on my Tesla app. Do you want windshield protection? $23 a month. What? Yeah, that's expensive. Well, they they've always had insurance plans for in windshields and so where it's it's not like they are actually keeping the rocks away at that point. They will just that's an insurance policy against windshield. >> I just did that sounds expensive for windshield protection. >> No, because replacing the windshield $2,500 on a Tesla. It's It's a lot of money. But my point being is I think we're going in the subscription revenue model where you want remote start five bucks a month and pretty soon >> television >> pretty soon it's going to be like you're going to spend more money on the subscription than you would on the car payment itself. That's where I think it's heading. >> There's a good chance of that. Yes. Potentially. And we're also going to get eventually into the era where it's pure coach building where there's just a chassis and then all you're paying for is the body, the interior, and the infotainment because beyond that, every car is the same through electrification and things like that. >> If someone has a minimal budget, but they want a great car, what do you think they should buy? And I'm talking minimal budget, like let's say a few thousand bucks. >> At a few thousand, you're not really paying for the car. you're paying for the last 18 months of maintenance. So, you're going to try to find a car that has recently had brakes, tires, plugs, coils, fluids done because that's, you know, when you start trying to now buy a $200 or $3,000 car, that's what matters. And so, documenting that as a seller, that's how you sell them is you take the fear out of buying a cheap car like that. um when you start thinking about trying to we we've done this with, you know, various car tracks and things like that where we'll buy, you know, $1,500 cars and they're they're all junk. Like especially if you try to get an interesting $1,500 car that's not a Honda or a Nissan or whatever. Uh so yeah, they're they're junk, but they're a whole lot of fun. We uh we bought an SLK, an Audi TT, and a old old Supra and drove them from Hooie's house in Kansas all the way down to Galveston. And then I drove the TT into the Galveston Bay and uh and it drove right out and I drove it home 14 hours. So it's uh that you can make them last sometimes, but not all. >> If someone wants the cheapest possible car over the course of their the entire ownership, what would it be in terms of maintenance, reliability, like this car could last them 40 years? Like what is a bulletproof cheap car? >> Well, the cheapest car to own is always the one you already have. And so the the way to minimize your ownership cost in cars is to love the cars that you have enough to keep them. And so to be willing to endure driving it that long. When you start thinking about trying to put 2 3 4 500,000 miles on a car, that's getting harder and harder because there's just a lot of issues with cylinder linings and lubrication that are a lot worse now than they were across all manufacturers a decade or so ago. So, I don't actually know that I would start with a brand new car with that aim. Um, it would probably be a Porsche to be honest with you. I think Porsches are the best built automobiles right now. They're not the most interesting, but if you were if you actually wanted to put 250,000 miles on anything interesting. Yeah. Otherwise, your your normal Hondas, Toyotas, >> you'd say Honda and Toyota are the most reliable cars? >> Probably. This is not my expertise. I don't think about these problems often, but yes, historically speaking, if you look at consumer reports and all these things, that tends to be the case. >> And so, what cars today are guaranteed to be financial disasters? >> Virtually any new car that you can walk in and buy is going to depreciate. And usually in a fairly predictable measure, 1% a month is always the plus or minus for depreciation. And if you look at lease residuals or anything like that, like a good lease is less than 1% including taxes and everything a month. That's pretty rare. We are seeing unbelievable depreciation in electric cars right now where Teslas and you know all the electric European cars are just in some cases sub 50% residual value in 12 to 24 months. >> Why is that? Well, lease incentives is the reason for that because it's so cheap to buy new ones. You know, under Obama after Clash after Cash for Clunkers and all these things where we he was really trying to get some traction for electric cars where we had lease deals on Nissan Leafs for 100 150 bucks a month. Everybody bought them. They sold a million of these things and they had like 80 miles of electric range. Well, the problem is if a brand new car that was $35,000 is a h 100 bucks a month, how much is a used one worth? Well, $100 a month is the payment on like five grand. And so they're worth like $5,000. And so in those cases, you literally had like 80% depreciation on these cars inside of 24 months because there was zero demand. the only people that wanted to use one just didn't have enough credit to get the $100 lease or the $150 lease if you wanted heated seats. Um, you know, that kind of thing. And so, you know, those are the cars. Yes, modern electric cars are guaranteed to depreciate to nothing. >> Who is even buying new cars in 2026? Like I in my entire life, the only new cars that I have ever known about being purchased is I stupidly bought my Tesla new. And Graham, you bought a new Tesla. >> Yes. But because it made so much financial sense. >> Wait, wait, but I'm I'm just saying you like new cars like Oh, I guess Jeremy Jeremy bought a Ferrari, right? Was that new? >> No, that was used. He bought them both used. >> Who is buying new cars today? In some cases, they're buying new cars because the slightly used ones that still have the features and the reliability that they think they want are too close because there's not as much initial depreciation because of used car leasing, because of extended warranty costs, because of, you know, a lot of factors that they can that manufacturers can do to short-term bolster the value of depreciating cars. Uh, and so there are situations where it just makes more sense to buy something new because the amount that you're saving, let's say it's a lot less than 10%. So certain things like Escalades and GMC Yukons for a long time and Taho didn't depreciate all that much. So it really you didn't pay that much extra to get a new one and most of the V8 engines that they put in the cars in the last decade are going to fail. And so it was really really important to have a warranty. And so those are calculations where people can very rationally end up buying a new car. There's also situations where you plan to rely on goodwill from manufacturers and limon law risks and things like that that can make sense to buy new cars even when you naturally wouldn't. But in reality, there is enough demand and leasing is one of the biggest things about it where people are leasing these cars because they want to have something new. the same they want to have a new phone in 2 years is that they like to just trade in and out and they insist on having the latest greatest thing and they consider that to be a reasonable expense, you know, amongst their entire financial portfolio. >> That's crazy. I was looking at upgrading my Tesla and getting a new one. And when I'm looking at the used values of Teslas right now, I'm talking about the new redesigns like 2024 and newer. They're selling for almost the same price as a new one would cost >> in Model Y or >> Model Y, Model 3 performance specifically. And the Model X and S have now shot up in value about 20%. >> Cuz they were discontinued. Yes. And look, Tesla is an interesting company and we have no idea what the future holds, but I uh I I think it's going to be a fun one to watch. uh you know whenever you're talking about trading from you know your current car to a newer version of the same thing you have to value those marginal gains so much. So like people come up to me all the time and they're like you know are you sad that the cars that you love aren't made anymore. No, I'm not sad. I like having goals where the goalpost doesn't move. I like having a dream car that, you know, is is its own thing and I don't have to think, "Oh man, I hope they don't add CarPlay next year because then I'll have to buy the new model year cuz I No, none of my car radios work." But I don't care. I like to have like a finite target that I can that I can aim for and strive for. >> So, what is your dream car? >> My dream car really is a Mercielago. And I when I bought my first one, I had like a proper identity crisis of like, well, why do I have to keep going to work? I mean, I still owed 12 years of payments on this car, let's be honest. But I was like that was the dream was like to have this car and I've got one and I've had nine since then cuz I love them that much, you know, when that was that was the dream car. When we really started to gain some traction with Vinwiki and I knew that I needed to like bear down and really, you know, grind at this stuff, I said, "You know what? I need the only way I'm going to do a good job at this is if I have a stupid car goal." So, I was like, "I'm going to buy a Bugatti." And I uh I I was like, "Well, that sounds like a, you know, stupid idea. How in the world am I going to buy a million- dollar car?" Uh, but having that as kind of this background dripping faucet of a motivating goal, uh, you know, made me work harder. And when I bought it, I was like, "Well, darn it." You know, what am I going to do now? Because I don't want a Valkyrie or some of these other great cars that people are well justified in wanting. I'd like a McLaren F1, but I don't really want to have enough money to have a 30 $40 million car cuz that has other issues in your life that I'd prefer to avoid. So, I don't know. I'm I'm I'm beyond content is the answer. Uh, and I I love the stuff that I currently have. So, what should people look for when they're buying a used car? >> Generally, just getting a good inspection is enough. And it's really a lot simpler than people think. We use a a company called Lemon Squad where they can get out and inspect a car usually within like 24 hours, no matter where it is. It's kind of a gig economy solution. Um, but you know, if you have time, take it to somebody who really knows these cars and have it looked at. It's not that expensive and it saves you. It It more than pays for itself in the negotiating leverage to be able to say, "Well, I now know that this professional has evaluated that it needs this, that, and this, and now I should owe you less for this car." And they can't argue with you because you've proven it. >> How much should an inspection cost? >> I mean, Lemon Squad can be, you know, $200 or less. They can do it live from your phone if you need it done right then for like 60 bucks. And so you can just FaceTime a professional mechanic who will let you walk around the car and say, "All right, open the hood. Look at this. Show me this." You know, and I have problems with my cars that I don't I'm not trying to sell them, but I would love to figure out I took it to the I took it to actual shop and they couldn't figure it out. >> Call them. 60 bucks. >> Holy mackerel. >> How accurate is that? Cuz I feel like the mechanics actually go in there and they >> It's the combobulator. That's what's broken on the car. >> Yeah. But they open up the combobulator and they're able to see all the things the widgets in the combobulator to know like, "Oh, that that thing is broken." >> Well, my Uber today on the way to the Atlanta airport had a roaring differential. I mean, it is going to grenade momentarily. And I'm not going to tell this guy that the way he earns a living is like that he desperately needs. >> Why wouldn't you tell him? I would tell him. >> Oh, cuz they they Nobody likes to hear that kind of thing. I don't know. Maybe I should have told I don't know. >> I would have I would have told you could message him and just because what if he's in the middle of a ride and his whole thing blows up in the middle of the >> freeway. He wasn't unaware. The noise was profound. >> But maybe the bad hearing or something anyway. >> Okay, I'll send him a message, you know, sound system. >> I am not a mechanic. I am a I pay mechanics and but it's not that hard to diagnose cars and they could at least narrow it down to the three possible things that add some AI and you're going to have a good day. So yeah, uh by all means somebody can remote diagnose your car. >> Where do you find the best deals? >> I find the best deals in situations where I am not competing with people where I will find that a car is available in a circumstance that would alienate most buyers. So, my $26,000 McLaren, once again, it came with nine cars that I had to buy out of an estate. And so, I bought three Corvettes and a Mustang and an R8 and an i8. Were they all flooded? >> This guy uh was real high up at LabC and he was their CIO and he had retired and started watching Vinwiki videos and became a huge fan and was like, "Ed buys these terrible cars. I should do that, too." And he bought them all. I mean, he bought a a warehouse full of these things. And so then, not because of that, he uh I got connected after he'd passed, unfortunately, because of uh cancer. And so his wife contacted a local Kia dealer asking how to sell all these salvage title exotic cars. And that person only knew to ask Ed Bolan. So he sent me a message and said, "Ed, what do you do?" And I told him, I said, "Well, generally you tell me what they are. You ask for a lot of money. I offer a little bit of money and we meet right smack dab in the middle at my original offer and I come get them and he goes, "Oh, okay. We could do that." And so he asked for a bunch of money. I told him what I thought they were all worth blind. I I don't need any information. I'll tell you what I know they can't be worth less than. And I uh and he said, "All right, if you'll wire the money and come get them, you can have them tomorrow." So I get a bunch of trucks and go there and go. We got all nine cars. I actually bought three and then they they were so pleased with that I bought the other six. >> Wait a second. So, are you going to keep any of the cars for yourself or you they're already sold? >> Yeah, I gave one to my editor. He was He took a new job and uh as a parting gift, I gave let him pick and he chose a Corvette. Um I had already sold a couple of the R8 and the i8 to friends. Um >> you didn't call me. >> I the uh Well, they're all going to come up for sale in November, so they're going to come back. >> Now the deal's done. Now the deal is done, man. Well, and I actually I I thought a lot about that because I get endless requests for people like, "Hey, help me buy a car." And uh AI has not perfectly solved how I scale myself in that way yet. And so I I was like, "All right, let's use these cars as an experiment to see how this would work because I would love to just have uh I don't know what the best platform to use a Patreon where you pay $100 a month and I love all my cars. I'm not really looking to buy anything, but I get opportunities to buy something every day. I'm just going to put them all in a chat and you guys can just go buy them. I don't care. I don't need to make money on them or anything. You're paying for the access. I'm not making any representation of the cars other than this came across my desk. Here you go. Um, and so I kind of did that. I get I sent a list of these cars out to some friends >> and like the first one was like, well, what recourse do we have? >> And I'm like, none. It's a branded title car in, you know, North Carolina. Like, no, it's we bought, you know, I was like, you cannot buy it cuz I'm going to buy it anyway, but like that's not really how this is supposed to work. And then another one was like, well, you know, what is your mechanic going to do to it before I buy it for the price that I've already agreed to? I'm like, uh, nothing. It's it's very much asis. And so it was and they were not they just don't think about buying cars the way that I do. And they shouldn't because it's stupid. And I I understand that like, you know, it's not for everyone. And I'm trying to sort of figure out I I don't actually think my idea there would work because I think everybody would end up taking risks they probably shouldn't and winding up with cars that are worse and sometimes they're better, sometimes they're worse. But, you know, like when I bought my cheap Bentley, I drove it back and the guy had badly welded a wheel and it broke. But I carry a big box of everything that you could you just to get somewhere. And so I've got to J-B weld this wheel in a parking lot of a Loves and then air it back up. And nobody's going to do that. They're going to end up with a very expensive tow bill from somewhere in West Georgia that they don't even know where to take it. And then when it shows up, they don't have any paperwork yet to process. And I enjoy that mess because I've kind of built out the way it works. But it's not like a silver bullet to great deals. >> Got it. Okay, that makes sense. But please pass. >> I'll be happy. >> Please keep us in mind if you get a cool Audi R8. >> Yeah, I like the R8. >> He likes the i8. I like I'm iffy on the i8. >> So the R8 was like mid50s, but it had 106,000 miles. And again, totally unknown, been sitting for a year, you know, by the time they got around to executing probate and selling stuff. Uh, you know, there was an i8, but it, you know, we fortunately it was actually a really nice car, but we had to buy it thinking it's going to need a battery and all the things which could be in, you know, endless. >> How much was the i8? >> 20s, >> I think. Yeah. I feel like I take the risk. Anything in the 20s, I'll risk it. >> So, if you bought a car >> Yeah. >> and it was 25,000 bucks and maybe a great one's 60, but you got to spend 20 or $25,000 and you still wind up on it and and then so you got 50 grand in a branded title car and the car's down for 6 months and you're like, why did I do this? And you got to pay cash and you got to pay before you see it. You know, it's not it's not just an assembly line at the used car factory of all these great deals that just happened to go underwater at some point 10 years ago. That happens sometimes, but a lot of times you're like, "Oh, wow. >> This thing doesn't work at all." >> Okay. What's the most you've lost on a car? >> I've never lost money on a car. Not that I mean cars that we like destroyed for production that were let inexpensive. I guess I've lost some money on it. I lost one when Freddy sold it on my behalf without my permission, but I let him know that that was unacceptable. My, you know, wife's daily driver cars have lost money, I guess, but like not on like a a car that I buy for fun or for content or >> So, how could other people then not ever lose money on a car? >> Generally, know everything that can go wrong about a car and create a margin between what you'll pay and what that could manifest as. So, I have enough, you know, it the worst thing that could happen on a $26,000 McLaren is that the engine blows up, which only happens like 40% of the time. And so, I was like, well, you know, I could buy an engine for probably 30 to 40,000 bucks. At that point, I'm going to retail out of this car. I may not make that much, but it'll be okay. So, it's the ability to make the right offer and then put that offer to the right seller who, for whatever reason, isn't willing to or able to engage in a more competitive sales process. Why doesn't Hooie's Garage follow your advice? >> Because it's not that entertaining to watch things go really, really well. We watch Tyler because he goes out and buys the cheapest example of whatever when the next cheapest would have been a good car, but he buys the worst one. So, we can learn all of the bad things that would happen. And that is a really entertaining product. And then he spends money fixing it. And then that becomes a problem. And then he's the dumbest automotive channel in all of YouTube that we've come to know and love. And it goes really well. What do you think of online auction sites like Bring a Trailer and Cars and Bids? >> Um, they're wonderful. They they operate on a little bit of a new fallacy that most cars are not actually seven or 10 day liquid. They have been for the last seven or eight years because of unique things that again are macroeconomic trends where there's a lot more liquidity, there's a lot more enthusiasm and things like that. but they sort of represent a very very hard to quantify reality. They're very good ways to liquidate cars. Um it is important to engage with them in the right way to represent your car the right way, take the right pictures, get the right inspections done, do all the stuff beforehand to make sure that your car brings the most money. But the fact that they have solved the critical mass attention issue that there are enough biders and things like that on there, you know, to me is awesome. We've had a lot of sponsors on Vinwicki of these different upstart car company or auction companies and it is it's really really hard. Like it's probably the most expensive cost of user acquisition that I've ever seen in the automotive world. Um you know short of finding a brand new Rolls-Royce buyer, I don't know that you could have to spend much more money. I think right now based on what I've seen, it's probably between $15 and $20,000 of marketing expense to acquire a true retail value winning bidder that has 7 days of discovery on a car remotely. Uh when we started doing it uh with another one, it was probably $5,000. And and I can see that based on what they spend with me and the number of really successful things they have. Now, that's discounting the customer lifetime value, which is re significant because most people end up buying five, six, seven cars there. It becomes a habit. Um, so I think they can break even or beyond that if they're only making a 5 to 7%, you know, fee on top of that. But yeah, it's a it's a a very competitive space and no one's really been able to do it without a pre-existing social audience. >> And when you buy a car, how do you effectively negotiate? Like what are the strategies that you use? Not just coming up with the price and this is what it is minus 40%. Can how do you smoo? >> So that's the problem is most people think, oh, I'm just going to lowball them. I'm going to give them an unqualified low casual offer and just see what they say. Like, oh, you're asking $100,000. Well, you take 60, right? No. Like that's But if I come in and I'm like, look, I totally understand that $100,000 is reasonable. And if you can find someone who wants that exact spec right now and can manage to you know either get it financed or pay cash likely have to pay cash because of all these circumstances that makes it more desirable to me and you know doesn't require any reconditioning then sure that makes sense. But look let's be honest I know that it needs these three things cuz all of them need these three things and I'm not going to make us go through all the hoops and get it trucked across town to get it inspected to prove it. I am willing to fully commit at a number that accommodates for the risk that I'd be taking and I'm not gonna need anything beyond this. If you say yes, I'm wiring the money right now. I am fully committed to this offer and it is less than I know you want, but it'll be the easiest transaction you've ever had and I'm never going to call you unless you want to know what happened to it. And if it blows up on the way past your mailbox, it's my problem. they're gonna go, "Wow, that sounds like a really nice way to sell a car, and this guy really seems to know what he's doing." And the only way he's going to talk me into paying more is like, "Well, I can prove that it doesn't need this, or I can prove that it won't need that." And then we start to have a little bit of a different discussion. But that's how you negotiate. You negotiate from a point of 100% commitment. >> Do you do this over the phone or in person? And what's the difference between the two? >> Usually over the phone. If you negotiate in person, you're too committed. Like they know that you you've driven, you've traveled. Like you're not gonna go home without this car. So you need to know. So I like to buy them cheap enough that it's reasonable to do it blind. >> So let's just say I'm browsing Facebook marketplace cuz this is what I've been doing and it's not worked. I've been looking at really good deals for like 2022 to 2024 Tesla Model S and X and I know exactly where they sell. I know the market really well based on the mileage. And usually what I'll do is I'll lowball 10 to 15% below, but I'll send him a message saying, "Hey, uh, I'll pay you this, and if you agree to it, I'll come and pick it up right now, cash buyer." But everyone said no. So, am I doing it wrong? Should I be getting a phone number first? Like, hey, got a few questions. Would love to chat over the phone and then pitch it over the phone. Like, do you think that makes that big of a difference? Well, I think you need to think about why someone is taking a fairly new Tesla to Facebook Marketplace. Facebook Marketplace is where you go buy some real junk. And I like that. I spend a lot of time there, but I don't go there thinking like, I'm going to buy a great car today. I'm going to buy a 200,000 mi Maserati that runs on half the motor. Like, that's what I'm going to do. And then I'm probably going to I know I'm going to have to push it somewhere sometime. um if uh if they're advertising a 2022 Tesla on marketplace, they owe too much money and they have to get that amount of money in order to pay their loan off. That's the only circumstance where they're going to have it. Otherwise, it would have taken >> See, I see somewhere where it says like upgraded to a cyber truck selling this >> because they didn't want to take the trade allowance. >> Yeah. So, if they they're not willing to take what it's actually worth. So they're out there looking for that rich guy in Dubai or that rich YouTuber from Vegas to come in to come in and overpay for it because they they have this hope that they're going to get that last dollar out of it. >> So if I want to buy a private party specifically because there's no sales tax in Vegas for private party used car transactions, where do I go? >> That is that's a fun wrinkle because that might motivate people that they think that they're not getting because you do get trade credits on dealer transactions. Correct. So they've given they decided that even 7 8% more than what I was being allowed on the trade was not enough. >> So private parties I mean you can sort by private party uh listings on all >> there's so few of them which is weird. >> It is strange which means that dealers know they have to pay more. And so we had that in Georgia 20 years ago. Um it was only sales tax on new and used through dealers. And so it was a huge disadvantage. And the dealers lobby hard to have sales taxes instituted on private party transactions to avoid this dilemma. Uh and but you know it does create this spread of like it's you you're buying cars for less at dealers than you would pay for a private party because it still makes sense. >> Yeah. So when you worked at a Lamborghini dealer, what do the best customers do different from everyone else? the best customers focus on the value delta of the way that they're experiencing it to make a hobby that they really like most sustainable um in my opinion. Now, the customers that do things differently that just come in and trade every six months for whatever it costs cuz that's the adventure they want to go on or they come in and they spec $250,000 worth of options on a car because that's the way that they feel that they've expressed their love of the automobile most are also right. But when I put the the people that I admired and I wanted to emulate in my own ownership, it was the people that were really conscious of the economics of it. And and that's the reason they asked me to come work at the store because, you know, in working in the rental car industry, I knew exactly how much it cost to put every single mile on each of these cars. All factors in because that is the only way I could know if I was ever going to make any money. And so they wanted that applied to the broader scope of like multi-year ownership so I could help people counsel through the you inevitable depreciation that was because I started there in09 so these were unsellable automobiles. >> How much wiggle room is there actually in price on a Ferrari or a Lamborghini? >> That totally depends. Generally the spread between invoice and MSRP on most new cars is going to be between 8 and 15%. Um, there will be periodic incentives, rebates, things like that that could go beyond that. That's on new cars. Most used car dealers start from about an 8 to 10% margin and will end up making 1 to 3% net after everything's paid out. Now, that doesn't mean that you can negotiate all of it away because they actually have to generate some gross profit to keep the lights on. Um, and so, you know, generally speaking, you know, wiggle room is probably going to be on the order of, you know, 5 to 20% depending on the car. >> What percent of the people that bought Lamborghinis at the Lamborghini dealership would you say was a financially irresponsible move for them to purchase that car? >> So, that would mean that they were buying beyond what they could likely sustainably afford because you could say that, you know, someone that I knew was going to lose $100,000 on a car. Well, if they're worth $100 million, that doesn't really matter. So, um, but people who were stretching a lot to where if the car broke in a meaningful way or if the car depreciated beyond what might be anticipated, that could become really problematic. That was probably 20 to 25%. >> That's not that bad actually. 20 to 25%. If someone is going to purchase a car, what percentage of their income do you think like it should max at? I would say that the bank's rule that the loan amount, the cumulative amount of all your car loans should probably be less than you make in a year. Um, and that's excessive by most financial advisor standards, but if you're in that zone, you're probably not again at risk of a terrible maintenance event or additional depreciation really crippling. >> Wait, explain that again. >> Um, if your total loan amount, you have a $100,000 loan, you should make a h 100red grand a year. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What type of customer is most frequently buying a Lamborghini? Is it someone worth 3 million, 30, 300? >> It's lower than you would think. Um, in that and it's gotten a little bit stronger because the new car sales have gone up a lot since I was there, but generally I would say that the people were probably1 to $2 million net worth that were buying one to $200,000 cars. >> So, in order to just buy a Lamborghini, you'd probably say this person needs to make at least $200,000 a year. Well, given that most, you know, new Lamborghinis are now three, four, five, $600,000, I would say that you probably need to make at least half a million a year to go buy a brand new one. You want to buy a used Gallardo for a h 100red grand, you could make $75,000 a year and not have any real risk. I mean, that needs to be your only vice. Yeah. >> Right. And that's one of the things like if you have a real job, you can have one vice. It could be eating really nice food, traveling a lot, doing, you know, Pokemon cards, whatever. Or it could be a heavily depreciated interesting car. >> What would you say is your vice? >> I just like working. I don't know. I like working and saving. I don't I don't have a vice >> financial vice. There's not nothing that you're >> What's the most money you spent on a single thing or event in the last 12 or 18 months? >> Well, it was that Heritage Auctions. It was a three-piece uh storyboard set. The key scene from Nightmare Before Christmas. >> Okay. where Jack and Sally hold hands on top of the hill. That was it. >> How much was it? >> Under 20,000. >> Okay. If you think about the last five years, are most of the similar magnitude purchases art or you know significant collectibles? >> I don't really spend like I only spend money if I feel like it's going to >> be an investment. Yeah. Like if I if I bought this thing I bought it because I liked it, but I also bought it because I felt like it's underappreciated, undervalued, and I can't see why it wouldn't sell for triple. So that's how I look at it. I don't like buying things where I know the money's just gone. I really >> What's the last thing that you bought with no concern of its future value or an experience that you spent money on? >> First class uh plane ticket. >> I would say the aquarium, you know. >> No, but that's not it's 20 30 bucks here. And that's a cleaner shrimp. I mean, it's not like >> Well, I meant the the actual purchase of the aquarium itself. >> Uh yeah, but that was six years ago. I would say a first class plane ticket. That was the last time I had spent money where I did not think of an even then I thought of an ROI. I was like if I could get work done I could make that back at least and then it's a free flight. >> Got it. >> But everything is an ROI. >> How much do you have in the aquarium? >> 50 grand give or take. >> Okay. >> And that's probably worth now 12. >> Right. So that is a vice. That's a hobby. Um and I think it's a wonderful hobby. I've got an expensive boa constrictor. And so I agree that that can be a really really lovely thing that can add value to your life and peace as you stare at it. Um and so that would be a good example and like that's a huge expense, right? Lighting 50 $40,000 on fire is a lot. um you need to derive value and so for that you could have owned a very a couple very interesting cars in that same time in Delta and you know and but you you could do that on that that's a lot but I mean you could do that on a 50 to $100,000 salary over time if you saved and if you were disciplined and so but if you did that you would need to not travel in first class and things like that and so I think the same is true for interesting cars that you can own one for a lot less than you would think. You just do have to discipline yourself in the rest of life's asset allocation. >> So, if someone gave you a million dollars to build a perfect five car collection, and what would it be? Hey, by the way, really quick, if you want extra content just like this, as well as early access and a bonus post show posted every single week. Feel free to join as a channel member to get immediate access to all of that, as well as early access to everything else that we post along with priority responses to all of your comments. So, if that sounds cool, feel free to join. Would love to have you on board. Thanks so much. We'll get back to the podcast now. So, if someone gave you a million dollars to build a perfect fivecar collection, and what would it be? >> I would buy a an edgy e- gear Lamborghini Mercelago for, let's say, 300 grand. I would buy a Mercedes McLaren SLR for about 300 grand. >> I would buy a manual transmission Ferrari 360. So, I'd have a manual open top car uh for 150 and I'd have 250 left to spend. Um, and I' I'd want some kind of a probably an S-Class of some sort to drive around or a Bentley that's depreciated and something for the family. U, if it was going to be something else interesting, I'd probably buy a 911 variant that I could just beat on. Uh, but yeah, that' kind of be it. >> The one I really like when you said Bentley, the Bentley Bentegas. Yeah. Yeah, >> like a 2017. I'm seeing them now in the '60s. >> Oh, yeah. You can buy them in the 30s if you're crazy enough. >> Is that a bad car to buy? >> Yes. >> Why? >> Because they they will mechanically total themselves, meaning that when things go badly, you can't justify fixing them for the eventual value that they still have. >> Um, I still love them. I own the same thing as a sedan and it is uh it's not responsible but you know it's they're lovely cars and same same Range Rovers any of these things same thing >> in terms of resale how much does a unique spec matter >> that's a really really hard thing because you can look at certain cars where special specs can double the value having a paint to sample 918 or Carrera GT doubles the value at the moment which is really hard to say that there is a seven figure desiraability delta between colors, but the market right now is saying that it is. I don't view that as long-term sustainable as cars get really valuable. We see more of a compression across specs that people just if if one is available, they do that. >> Um, you know, so it's it's generally not that big of a deal. uh used car buyers have a preference towards spec, but like if you were really faced with an apples to apples uh Delta to go from a 7,000 mile white GT to pay another 400 $500,000 for a heritage car, >> I don't think you're going to do it. Maybe a h 100red grand, 200 grand, which still feels crazy cuz it's paint and you could wrap it for five grand to look the same way. But people do and it is in those cases a reasonable store of value and they're probably going to get it back. And so that's the kind of thing that you would justify and I would struggle hard because you see that and you're right that if that is the primary focus for the ownership that this is just kind of a you know it's a wash. I'm going to pay the delta that the market has. I expect that delta to prevail over time. I'm I'm right to do it. I would say I can't possibly get the marginal enjoyment out of that color and so I'm just gonna buy that's why I have a red over red Bugatti with red wheels. >> But are certain colors getting a premium right now? It seems like for Ferrari it's yellow. >> Yellow is bigger than red. Green is bigger than everything. Orange doesn't work for Ferraris because they always look like just a picture is unsaturated because everybody thinks it's red. But on a Lamborghini uh green is a 20 to 30% premium. Orange is up there. And so yes, there are certainly situations where that happens. And what about people trying to deduct cars on taxes? Because we recently posted with Stradman got in trouble deducting cars as props, but then paying tax on it when he realized the gain, but he would be just rolling it into future cars. So again, I'm not an accountant and you know, realizing automotive gains is a really difficult thing to do for any accountant because there are obviously expenses that could offset them, but you're not really supposed to do that as a normal tax return. And so I would say everybody defer there. I am comfortable with basis shifting in trades particularly given the fact that it's totally legal for paperwork to reflect different values if there as long as the actual cash outlay delta is well documented. Um you know I there's it's also perfectly reasonable for people to treat themselves more as dealers where they can treat the the gains more as revenue or income as opposed to and then the basis being the expense of the car. So there's a lot of ways that you can do it and get away with it. I think entirely legally, but you know, if you're going to go out there and realize a bunch of gains, you do need to plan to to pay for it. >> Steve Hamilton alleged that Ferrari and Pagani understate their car counts, their manufacturer counts. Do you think that there's any validity to that claim or do you think that that's false? >> Absolutely true. Um, it's very well documented. I built an app for it and so like for instance Ferrari said they made 399 Ferrari Enzos plus one for the Pope and there's well over 500 of them in our app so they you know underounted by more than 25%. Uh that's happened a lot and that's why they now don't have a number out of uh you know a lot just said limited to 499 uh and they'll do that forever that now they say one of 799 or whatever they're making. So when did they stop doing that and actually sticking with the number? Was it the Barquetta? >> 550 Barcetta's uh Super Americas were numbered. Um and 599 SA apparatas uh were numbered and there are some of they're duplicates of certain numbers out of 80. Yeah, there's like you know multiples. >> So that's zero and 00 and 0000 as prototypes. >> Oh yeah, with like F50s they had postp production prototypes because they just wanted to build some more. Is that legal? >> No, it is fraud. But what are you you're going to sue him? You >> for an extra car? >> You're going to sue Ferrari for defrauding you on your car that was immediately worth a million dollars over MSRP. That it should have been worth more than a million dollars over MSRP. And you're going to have a jury of your peers hear that case and say that, "Yeah, you're right. You deserved more profit. guy that's rich, I think they're pretty safe. And it's the same way as like, you know, you're not allowed to sell your car. You're allowed to sell your car whenever you want. No, you know, limitation of your ability to sell your car is remotely enforceable legally, but people sign these contracts that again are uninforceable because that's the requirement of the manufacturer. If they sell them, they just don't get any more cars from that manufacturer. So, it's internally enforced. That's so interesting. >> You were telling us before the podcast that you have data on the general car loan market and how much equity certain people have in cars and and this whole fascinating financial system behind the car market. Could you expand a little bit on that? >> So, I'm always been fascinated by the data and the economics of how car ownership fundamentally works. And so I have been working with Experian and Autocheck, which is unique because they have an auto data set in AutoC, which is much like Carfax, but they're Experian. They're a credit bureau, so they know everything. And so we've been trying to understand what can be revealed and what cannot. And so I'm going to work on some content with them because I just think it's the most fascinating thing in the world to understand like what percentage of buyers of each type of car are financing them, leasing them, paying cash, things like that. So, we'll uh I'll pull some of it out and we'll make a VinWiki video here after that. >> I would love to hear about it. >> Yeah. >> Can you reveal one of the most shocking statistics that you found? >> It looks like I'm the only person to used car lease a Bugatti in the last 5 years. >> Really? >> Uh so, explain the mechanics behind this. >> Yeah. So, I was able to get some data about like new car leasing versus and it was like 0.5% of used Bugattis are structured as a lease and maybe it was just me and Hooie because he did lease his through Premier Financial as well. Um, and so, you know, to me that's really interesting because there's not that many transactions. >> That's got to be you. So, you are >> Yeah. So, sometimes you see a data set like, well, I know who that one was and so it was me. >> Is there anything that you see that worries you about the car market crashing? We see so much right now about like upside down loans and negative equity in these cars and people can't afford to get rid of them. >> That will impact the new car market. It doesn't really impact the world that I play in. But yes, there is the perfect storm for catastrophic depreciation in some new cars, which you know, fortunately all that means is that some people will not be able to trade as fast or as often as they might like to. >> Is there a chance though they just stop making the payments? They let the car go. >> Yeah. But again, the magnitude of that exposure isn't that great. Even, you know, for the banks to absorb a 10 20% negative equity. It's not like the housing market in 2008 where, you know, you could have billions or trillions of dollars worth of exposure. It's not that bad. >> Is there any car that's in a bubble right now that you disagree with? Like I said, a lot of the cars that have really exploded in the last little while are are situations where the market or of owners of those cars at large would not turn down the recent highest price if they were offered it. And so that means that theoretically they're going to start trying to sell a lot of cars. And so if F12s are actually worth $500,000 when they were worth $200,000 last year, that has to equalize, right? Because people aren't going to reby their car at that number tomorrow if they have the option. And so those are bubbles, right? That something's got to give. either there has to be a continuous flood of, you know, new interest in the cars or they've got to get to a point where um, you know, the market comes back down and the bubble pops. Um, but I don't think it's going to pop that dramatically. I think it's just going to be like, oh yeah, they're only worth what they were worth yesterday plus a little bit. >> So, if we hit a recession, what do you think happens first? >> I don't think cars are the, you know, canary in the coal mine for a recession. Um, I think, you know, home inventory is always a good thing, but the the canary in the coal mine for the next recession is going to be unemployment. If if AI causes unemployment, which we know it does, we don't know the extent to which it is, but you know, if we start to get to a point where there is 9 10 12% unemployment, especially as we even contemplate what 20 25% unemployment would look like, which is what some of these guys are forecasting, that's where you start to really really worry. Um, you know, I think there are other interesting indicators of, you know, if we start to see lower aspiration, right? If people just become a lot more content to not >> work hard or accumulate any wealth, they become very apathetic and lazy is not the right word, but it just becomes trendier to not care about anything aspirational. That's horrifying, right? Cuz then you don't have a labor market. You don't have people that are willing to work hard. All that >> it's already starting. This >> I was gonna ask you if you thought the night was already starting. >> Oh, because you're so lazy. Is that what you're pointing at? This guy not not pulling his weight. I see it. Yeah. I mean, even a lot way more words tonight. Um, but you know, I think yes, there is a lot of that starting. And what I hope is that Gen Alpha recognizes this and they they start to enter a workforce where, you know, there's just a vacuum of motivation and they can just supersede their bosses and their boss's bosses. so fast just by working hard and trying and I think that's the biggest opportunity for young people today. >> Yeah. What do you think is the future for our economy in the next 5 years? >> I am not probably not the right person. You are the right person to ask. >> I think there are so many trends that are wildly troubling. Things like you should not buy a house, you should rent. >> Maybe economically this can be justified. But there is no greater creation of wealth in the history of the world than the equity component principal payment component of your mortgage payment. You yes you could be disciplined and save that exact amount in a good investment product over time and come out ahead but the likelihood that you will do that without fail is zero. The likelihood that you will make your mortgage payment is really really high. And so, yes, there might be a net loss or a parasitic effect, but like people should buy homes. It is the there's a reason that most millionaires are homeowners. And it's not because they're wealthy enough to buy homes. It's because long-term equity payments matter. So, things like that, this drive, this idea that you should not go to college. Well, sure, it's really hard to justify $250,000 in student loans over time, >> but at the same time, having adulthood with training wheels for a few years after you're 18 years old versus going out in the workforce has a lot of value. And so I think that's something where, you know, we need to start re-evaluating some of these popular, you know, memew worthy social trends that work well in infographics and say, you know what, maybe that's not actually good for society for us to move in certain directions when we extrapolate over decades and generations. >> So what's your advice to your own children in terms of what they should be doing in the future? >> Well, none of the jobs that I've pretty much had even existed when I was their age. And so I get invited to a lot more career days as a YouTuber than a used car salesman. And and that's one of the things we talk about is like, you know, most of the things that you're going to end up making money doing are jobs that don't exist yet. So adaptability is the most valuable commodity. the ability to say all right this is the landscape that I am facing and these are the things that I may want to accomplish and how do I overlay that with the talents and the gifts that I have and the things that I've learned to create opportunity because it's not going to look like it did for you know my parents' generation certainly most of the people my age where you just kind of enter the work go to a job fair pass out some resumes get a real job you know >> picket fence and all >> and how do you teach them that quality >> you put them in uncomfortable situations where they have to adapt You celebrate the times where they didn't know exactly how to succeed, but they prevailed. They overcame. You give them adversity so that they can have a little bit of a, you know, shallower pool sometimes when they jump in. Uh, and again, I think you just hope and pray. And >> what's your long-term plan with Vinwiki? >> You know, it's interesting because, you know, we've been making content nearly daily for about the same amount of time, and seeing what's happened in the space over that period is so wild. I think that, you know, the opportunity when we first started was like you could almost make a living and then it became, well, you could make a pretty decent living and then it became, well, you might be able to even support a a co-star or a staff or a facility or something like that or maybe you could buy a Bugatti with a giant irresponsible loan. Like that didn't exist when we started. And so now that does exist. And then now we're kind of going I think the pendulum is swinging in the opposite direction where the appeal of calling yourself a content creator or a YouTuber is so high that people are coming in like as long as I can like pay my bills, I'm happy to do it. And so they're making content that's really really good and relatively inexpensive. And so it's noisy but and for good reason. The platforms are working. They're getting the opportunity. They are out there making you know5 to $10,000 a month making content. That's amazing, but you know that doesn't support all of the infrastructure. And so, you know, when I think about the future of Vinwiki, I think about it kind of in the same way in the context of content creation to say that, you know, it's going to change. We are the old people in the room. And we see in most cases some decline in viewership 10, 20, 30% relative to what it was maybe at its high five, four, three years ago. And I think that that's okay. I think we all have kind of a life cycle and that may result in reinvention. It may result in some experimentation. It may result in, you know, just saying it's been amazing and I see no reason not to keep making the next podcast or inviting the next guest to tell a car story and that we just sort of ride it into whatever that becomes. I think as the noise goes up, the dedication also goes up. The people that you know want to walk up to you in an event or the guy that sees you at the airport says, "Man, I just love your content. I love what you're doing. I appreciate you putting it out there and the things that you stand for. And so, you know, to me, that's really the future is we we continue doing it because it's it's working so far. >> And I think the future for you, by the way, is in your back catalog of videos because a lot of them don't have you in it. And my gosh, I mean, the amount of value that someone would be able to get by owning your back catalog, >> places that pop up to do that, to pay you money for that sort of thing. I've loved that because they all call because Vinwiki is enough not me that as they think about the value in the automotive vertical they they find me and we talk about it and so seeing all the different ways that people are offering you know debt products, equity products, repurposing products, platform deployment and all that I think is really really interesting because it is like you say that is the way that we make the most of the opportunity and I kind of view it on two fronts like yes I need to extract the most value as one can because it is my career here, but I also need to be the right steward of the audience's attention to know that like to do well by the storytellers and to do well by what we're doing. That's why we try to, you know, raise the stakes with car trek and other, you know, car buying and other things like that, the adventures, but also just to make sure that there's value. >> So, who do you think of all of the car YouTubers is the worst with money? >> Well, there's one that comes to mind. Um, but, you know, I' I'd like to think there's a bigger picture with that he's he's really going to put it together. Um, and that will uh, yeah, certainly run to second place, which is also pretty easy to define. Uh, but you know, I think that it's it's interesting because all of our content has different demands, right, of the what people are there to see. You know, sometimes they want to see you be really, really smart and sometimes they don't. And sometimes they want to see you buy really, really good cars, and sometimes they don't. And sometimes they think you're really going to put your life together and make all the right decisions. And sometimes you don't. So, who is it? >> I don't know. I can't really put a pace on it. Okay, cool. >> That's fair. Who is the best with money? >> Daddy Doug. It's always Doug. Doug Demiro has certainly kind of beaten the game in this form and I think it's great to see that. I think, you know, you look at the success of Hoonigan uh is also great. The guys that started Donut did really well. In most of those cases, postacquisition, it's not as good. And I think that is sort of the biggest thing that the industry would solve is to try to figure out like you know well what do we offer in terms of a transitional plan or an opportunity to scale that really makes the most sense. >> Cool. Perfect. Thank you. >> You want to come say hi? >> Look at Wow. >> M. How did Mr. Bullion do this? >> It was great. Fantastic. >> Terrible. There's there's very few people who are as good as a good of a speaker as really of what to do versus what not to do when I show up basically, right? Every story needs a book end. >> Are you guys wearing matching watches? >> Oh goodness. Look at this GM. You got >> Yeah, pretty close. >> You should have worn your subject. >> I know. I I didn't know. >> Oh my god. >> Send the memo out. >> Well, >> so explain what brings you to Vegas. >> I got this guy hired at Barrett Jackson. You got him a job. >> Had to work with me. Uh some of the old guard, some of the old guard there, uh they're busy. They have other things going on. So I got Ed for Las Vegas for the uh the auction first time. So he'll be up on a block of me doing commentary on TV. So it's television, Ed. It's live. >> We're not accustomed to such things. >> Are you Are you nervous going live like this? >> No. >> How many cars do you think Tyler's going to buy? >> Two. Too many. >> Too many is how many he's going to buy. But uh he will. They have. They have never lost money hiring Tyler. I can tell you that much. >> Is it Is it true that he's going to spend the money back on the cars? >> Oh, and more. Always. Yes. They They give you a line of credit, Tyler. >> Yeah. >> It's available. They got I'm sure they got a table for it. >> Oh my gosh. Cool. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate this. Thank you for doing this and coming out to Vegas, filming with us. And we'll link to all of your information down below in the description. And for the video that we do together, I'll link to it as well. Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. >> Oh, and by the way, for all the channel members out there, huge thank you. If you want to see our next episode that's already live early for channel members, here's the trailer for it. >> Elon Musk, the world's richest person, has also become the world's first trillionaire. >> And every civilization that has rose has fallen because of a growing wealth gap. >> At what point though does the wealth gap get so big that all of a sudden something has to break? It is profitable to keep you financially stupid. It is profitable to keep you poor. Most Americans today would rather look rich than be rich. >> Over 40% of us are unfamiliar with Roth IAS, money market accounts, and high yield savings. >> It is so rigged, it is unfair. It is rigged towards investors. So, what do you think is the biggest risk for the economy that no one is going to see coming? >> Right now, we have about $40 trillion of national debt. We are spending about $2 trillion a year that we don't have right now. Do you think it's a negative that right now stocks are near their all-time highs? The best investors because don't sell. And what can the average person do to protect themselves? You're one paycheck away from your family being broke because if you want to be rich. It's incredible. We had so much fun filming it. So, with that said, enjoy. Okay. And that's ready to watch right now. >> Cool. >> Thanks so much. >> Until next time. >> I think GTA is a magical moment for our culture. >> So, what's your biggest trade coming up? >> Like, it's going to do phenomenal. >> What about I'm not excited about I don't own any right now, but I still think the main trade is on take two. >> What are your thoughts on >> I love to see falling here. I don't know when I'm going to make my big move to heavily lever back into it, but it's probably going to happen at some point in the next few months.