Montpelier Design Review Committee - September 8, 2026 [MDRC]

Welcome to the Tuesday, September the 8th, 2026 meeting of the Montpelier Design Review Committee. I will let uh members and staff introduce themselves. >> Uh this is Martha Smurski, member Rebecca Owens, member. >> Meredithrandle, staff, >> and Steven Everett, member. At this point, we'll let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process. >> Okay, we just have applicants and members so far, so this we should be able to do this fairly efficiently. All right. So, for anyone viewing tonight's design review committee meeting via Orca Media, you can participate in the discussion using the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. For the full video experience, please type this link, I know it's really long, into your web browser and you will be able to see what's going on as well as um have us see you um and be able to talk to us. Um, alternatively, you can dial in from any phone using the phone number here and when prompted, put in the meeting ID and passcode. Um, and then you'll be able to hear everything that's going on and um, discuss, you know, raise questions if you wish. Um, if somebody's trying to get in and having problems, please email me at mcrandlempillar-vt.org. I will be monitoring my email throughout the meeting. Um, for those attending via Zoom, turning your video on is optional. If you're having a lag in the sound, um, turning your own camera off will help tremendously. We won't be able to see you, but you'll still be able to see everything that shows up on the screen. Um, and a lot of times that does help with any lag in the sound. Um, we do ask that everyone please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking. This helps reduce background noise. Um and that um if you haven't been asked to speak by the chair and wish to speak, please raise your hand and wait for the chair to call on you. The Zoom chat function should be used only for logistics or troubleshooting issues. Um and so uh anything that is substantive to the matter needs to be made verbally so that everybody can hear you. Um, in the event the public is unable to access the meeting, um, then it will need to be continued to a time and place certain. I will now hand the meeting back over to the chair. >> At this point, unless someone has something to add, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda? >> This is Martha. I move to approve the agenda. >> Rebecca will second. >> All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. >> Martha. Rebecca >> and Stephen. Agenda is approved. We can move forward to the first applicant for 62 Ridge Street. Applicant owner Greenway Incubator is someone here. >> We have lots of people here today. >> Okay. Come forward and have a seat at the table and describe your application for us. >> Hi, I'm Troy McBride of Greenway. Um, also here uh with us is uh Leaf Johnson who's a project manager on the project and uh available to answer questions. Uh we're also like other times we've been before you, we've been fortunate to have Katie Gapsin uh help us with the process and so she is actually going to lead lead the discussion and Leap and I are here to uh uh answer any questions. So, if it makes sense, I'll just start with a a brief overview and then maybe um I'll sort of you've got the perfect page up there so I can sort of help locate some of the elements. Um essentially, this project entails replacing an old uh oil boiler located in Martha Science building, formerly known as Stone Science. um pictured there um on the right hand side with the letters surrounding it. Um that boiler actually is part of a heat plant that heats three buildings on the Greenway campus. It heats uh Martha Schuler and College Hall. So you can see all three of those buildings. Um, so it's replacing that old oil uh boiler with a new clean electric boiler. Um, and as part of that new boiler system, um, two new elements uh, need to be installed. At location A, right in front of Martha, would be a new um, transformer. And then located um where the sea is would be hot water storage tanks. Um and the idea with the uh hot water storage tanks is that would allow Greenway to be able to store energy in partnership with Green Mountain Power and use off peak um electricity to just be all that more efficient. So hopefully I've described that um well enough and maybe helped locate some of those elements. Um but I'd be happy to answer um any questions from the committee. >> Katie, do we have a picture of what the trans I think you said a transformer would look like in front of Martha building? >> Yes. So, if we go to not the next page, I think it's the second to last page. Um, so what page is that? I think on my screen it looks like page two. Yes, this one. Um, so there is a pad, a concrete pad that the um that is on the right hand side and then the transformer sits on top of that. And I don't know if anybody is familiar enough with campus to um be able to picture. There's actually another one of these on campus right on the back side of college hall. So it sort of ends up looking like um a a metal um container. Um and the in terms of the dimensions, I think it's about 5 and 1/2 ft tall. um and not quite um as wide as that. So maybe three or four feet wide. >> Yeah. So there isn't a mockup, Martha. Um and for So just a a note for people, I forgot to say this at the beginning. >> Um we're using a new system for minutes. So, those of us here in chambers where all the sound goes through one system will probably want to state like who we are when we're talking here at the beginning um until it can get used to us. So, this is Meredith. Um so, the I'm going to scroll back up the first page here. So, with the photo A, >> um is showing the location where that is going to go. There isn't a mockup of it, but uh Katie, you said it's going to be about 5 feet tall. >> 5T tall. Yes. >> And is it going to go tall? Like >> is it going to go to one side or the other of this bush that's here in the middle? Do you know? >> I I think that that probably the exact location will have to sort of be determined as the installation is happening with Green Mountain Power. I don't know. Troy, do you do you agree with that in terms of the exact location? >> Yeah, I think they have some some requirements like set back from the building and >> Yeah, there's code requirements about how far exactly from different parts of the building is probably going to have to go um and for the the conduit and everything to work. Um, so if the committee has requests for screening and everything, we could work that in and as long as it's still compliant with safety code, um, make sure that that fits. So like if you want some additional new shrubbery like closer to the front of the parcel to act as some kind of screening especially if any of the shrubs close to the building have to go away. Um you could make that request because landscaping and screening are part of your purview. >> Is there what is the code requirement as far as distance from the building? you know, Leaf, it's >> If you know Leaf, you need to come up to one of the microphones. Either the standup or you can the stand up works fine and just say who you are for the record. >> Uh Leaf Johnson with Norwich Technologies. Uh I'm uh I don't know what the uh setback from the transformer to the building is. Um in in terms of uh project management, uh we had uh been um uh presuming that Green Mountain Power would uh uh you know supply their uh requirements for location. I'm looking at the picture of the the the long tanks, 51 ft tanks off the back corner of the building and then it looks like there are lines that come along the side of the building and come in close close to the front >> on the side there. >> Would it be possible to move the transformer like on the side so that it's not right out front of the building? Um so the uh the general position of the transformer uh in front of the building is based on the location of the electrical service uh we would be using which uh the last uh sort of the end pole of that service is immediately across the street uh sort of adjacent to the parking lot for college hall if you're familiar with that location. Um and so that would be the um uh having the transformer um immediately across the street would involve the minimum additional poles and electrical infrastructure. >> And isn't there a I'm sorry is that overhead lines or underground lines >> underneath the underneath the uh uh ridge street which is a private road. So >> right. So under underground. >> So if they're going if they're going across the street towards the front of the building, is it not possible to come across the street and then angle over to the side and have it there? There's not that much difference of underground conduit that's be required. >> Is this paved already though? >> Well, I'm looking at I'm looking at the picture of the building and there's nothing on the right. It it is >> or or is it paved? >> U so just to clarify what what's on um uh I believe predominantly the west side of the building that we're discussing there. >> Yes. >> Um so there are uh paved uh uh sort of walkways and an old uh concrete um >> coal bunker. >> Yeah, bunker is the word I'm looking for. an old concrete coal bunker um that uh sort of sits uh adjacent to the building on that west side. Um >> so you'd have to tear that all up versus just the lawn. >> That's correct. >> Is the bunker below ground or above ground? >> Uh below ground. >> Seems like a perfect spot to put a base for your transformer. >> This is Martha. I I agree with Steve. I I have some problem trying to um understand why it has to be in the front because it is quite a large thing. Big metal box. I I will note that uh this is Troy. I will note that there's is that same big metal metal box uh behind college hall. Um and uh it's you know painted green. It's not particularly uh uh um doesn't particularly stand out, but uh >> but that that's behind College Hall, right? >> Which is on the same side as this, right? >> Just along Ridge of the building. >> No, I'm just I'm just trying to think. I mean, the building's attractive. There's trees there. There's some shrubbery there. Uh if if anything it would be better just in front of the absolute corner of the building rather than sitting directly between the entrance and the in the side of the building this thing sticking right in the in the front. If it was off to the side you could do a planting around it or something to help hide it or it would be ideal if it could go around the side of the building if there's enough room for the walkway and then to have the transformer there. >> I mean it's an attractive building. I mean, this campus was laid up pretty nicely when it was built, and it's a shame that any utilities can't be sort of off to the side and not predominant like it would be with a box sticking where that basically where that tree is. >> Yeah, I think that that's uh uh I think makes a lot of sense. Um, I think my request would be that uh we put it near that corner and then see with GMP. I think around the corner is going to be uh very difficult because of the paving and the and the coal bunker. But near that corner is is no might make more sense >> depending on code requirements. I guess our first preference would be on the side of the building at the nearest the corner or the second choice would be if that's impossible at least at the very corner of the building so it would be easier to hide it with some shrubbery or or something >> showing is that is second choice >> first choice would be to tuck it around the side somewhere >> if possible. beside that's where all your piping goes in from the tanks anyway is in that side. So that would be ideal. And then second choice would be tucked right right to the corner of the building and as close to the building as you can get it. And then that way shrubbery that goes along the front of the building could swing out. >> Yeah. swing out and and look like it was part of the landscape design instead of a metal box in the middle of the yard. >> It'll need code requirements and I think for this kind of equipment there might be like a five foot setback. I have to double check. >> Um but as long as it can meet those two >> then you have some restraints there. But the the least intrusive it could be would be the preference. Again, it's a very very attractive building. >> Meredith, I I want to make sure that just in terms of the conversation I'm following. Um I I do I think what I'm understanding is that the second choice is in the front of the building off to the side. the first choice is sort of further back tucked along the side of the building and the what I heard as the sort of qualifier unless that's impossible and I just want to get clarity on that is quite an additional distance to move it from the front of the building to the back of the building. It's closer to the neighbor. So I'm just trying to understand what not impossible means because if it doubles our costs um you know that that is uh just again trying to understand the parameters around the first choice which I think I think greenway would agree 100% if we can put it to the side of the building so that it really is located um in a place that is basically invisible to to people coming through campus. Um that would be ideal. But if that's you know twice as expensive to put it there that our preference would be to go with the second choice of the design review committee. So I'd love to get some clarity on how we navigate that. Again, we weren't asking or suggesting to move it to the back of the building, only to the side of the building, so it didn't interfere with your line of sight across the face of the building. >> And and I think what's a little bit hard to see from the pictures is that it's paved all the way and there's an exit on the side of the building. So it it really ends up that other location that we're talking about is pretty close to the back of the building. So it would in my estimation would at least double the distance that we're talking about from the front of the building as our sort of second choice versus that side of the building where it could potentially be located um if it meets all the other code requirements. But I just want to flag the fact that that is quite a distance further from um the original. That's there there's a picture. You can sort of see the exit there. >> So this so this so the picture C is that side of the building and there's that overhang there is a side entrance. Is that like an emergency egress situation with that path? Do you know? Well, and now that I say it, Troy, is that actually the um the entrance to the coal bin area bunker or is that an exit? >> That's an exit. And uh it's you know, it's a it's not used often, but I wouldn't characterize it only as emergency. >> Yeah, but it it it is an exit. So, we can't block that. And we need to make sure that that path remains, right? So, you really have to go behind it. When you're when you're looking at this, it looks like there's a pathway, you know, beside the building there, >> but there's space beyond that. Depending on what the code requirement is, there's a space be just beyond that. Between that and looking at it from the top, there's a little building off to the side. What is that building? >> That's the next property. The property line is, if you're talking right there to the left on C, that tiny I think that's the next property. The property line is really close here. >> This little building here. Is that a separate house? >> Um, >> it this is Leaf Johnson. It may be easier to look at this on the uh site plan on the following page. >> The colors are a bit more muted. >> So, here's the property line. >> It's okay. >> There's not enough room between the path and the property line to put that and meet setbacks. >> Yeah, I would I would There's t There's not enough room. Then my again my suggestion would be to tuck it as tight to the corner of the building so that the landscape design you know land could come out and and go around the box if possible just for screening and then if it's 5t tall it's easy enough to find some column or evergreens or something that would go around that corner to to help hide it again with the building. It's a nicel lookinging building and it would be nice to preserve that. >> I agree with Steve. It's a gorgeous building and I hate to see that first facade interrupted in that in the way that we're describing. Um, so if we can put it on the side, I really would prefer that. And again, as this is as close to the building as possible and then bring it out to the edge of the the corner. >> Is it possible to find out how much difference it would make in cost to move it to the side? >> That would be very little. You're talking about a little bit more wire and conduit. Well, I to move it to where you're talking about I think makes perfect sense and and shouldn't change the cost much to move it uh somewhere like to go underneath the >> you can't go under I mean the property line being where it is that that's really >> yeah I think that >> pretty much impossible. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So I think so realistically Martha and Rebecca it because of the property line being here and all of the infrastructure that's already here under that walkway and then that they've got to run these pipes here and you got to keep your electric and this is water. So you got to keep your electric and your water separated. I think realistically it has to go here in this corner as the sort of the middle ground. >> Okay. Yeah, I'm I'm familiar with >> that shouldn't change the budget. >> Pardon my >> I said I am familiar with the building and that egress that we're talking about. Um and it is just such a gorgeous building. I I agree with Steve. If we can make this as inobtrusive as possible, I I would truly prefer that. I'd like to um add a thought too. >> I can share whatever you need, Rebecca, but go ahead. >> When I look at um the site photos, the first page and it shows the front of um it's picture A and it's showing the front. I actually am leaning towards the original location because then it will be in between the windows and then when like if we're putting greenery in front of it, it doesn't block the windows. I think some of the location I actually think it might become more obvious. So, I would say either in between the windows in that gap there where there's like a large and maybe there's a window behind it. And >> is there a window underneath this one? Do you know behind there? >> Yeah, I don't know. But it's also that I'm not sure it's tall enough to block that window on the right there. >> Yeah, this is a pretty because the ground slopes down some here. >> I almost think it's it might go underneath there. Okay. Oh, >> it'll be well under the windows >> because this is this is a pretty high um >> I don't know if that's granite, stone, concrete, but the the foundation space that you see there. I don't know all the architectural terms, >> but I think that that's pretty high to get to the bottom of that window sill. >> Okay. I just think if it can be put on the corner and if you if there's landscaping that can go around that it'll balance off from the projected entrance at the center of the building. I think it would balance that. Can I um add another thought? Usually when I see these structures, they're actually closer to the sidewalk and I'm wondering if that was an option or considered previously. I think now we're This is Troy. I think now we're actually talking about putting it next to the sidewalk coming from that uh from that um >> what we're calling the emergency exit, the side exit, the that side exit that's not used that often, but there is a sidewalk there. And so this would put it uh much closer to that sidewalk >> for access by for to be able to get to it in the winter and easier to >> I don't think you need Yeah. But like you never know. >> Yeah. But just uh in general Yeah. Yeah. >> Rebecca, just I'm curious if I understood your question. you were sort of wondering and asking if it could be moved closer to the sidewalk rather than closer to the building. Is that what you were? >> Yeah, more um the street sidewalk because I feel like whenever I see these, they're usually closer to the street than they are the buildings. And Troy, I'm not sure if we have a sense or if Greenway has a sense if if there is either something GMP has sort of said to us in terms of that location or Greenway's preference in terms of what I had been hearing until Rebecca asked the question is that as tucked to as close to the corner of the building is the preference, but now Rebecca is sort of just asking what about if we moved it closer to the sidewalk that's closest to the road. And so I'm I'm not sure if Greenway or GMP has considered that. So I'd like to try to give Rebecca an answer if we have any information on that. So Troy, I'm I'm passing it back to you. >> Yeah, this is Troy. Uh I I would say in general uh that uh we'd be happy anywhere along that um that sort of line. If you wanted it closer to the sidewalk, closer to Ridge Street, that that's uh you know, fine as well. Um I it's like low voltage wire costs a little more than high voltage wire, but it's not it's not that uh uh big of a difference there. Um uh so any anywhere along that line would be uh fine if if you thought it would be better away from the building and closer to the uh closer to Ridge Street. Rebecca, was that because that was your preference or just because it's an observation where you normally see them closer, so you're worried that GMP is going to want it closer? It's >> kind uh maybe more the like I usually see them closer and then it it become it feels more utilitarian just like other like things along the street that you need to have, you know, like a fire hydrant or whatever versus like when it's closer to the building, it feels more like a design element. So, I didn't know if the rest of the committee had thoughts about if it was farther away from the building. >> This is how far would it have to be away from the sidewalk if the sidewalks being plowed or snowb blowed. >> Yeah, I'm I'm guessing both of those are the in the 5 to 10 feet range like from away from the building and away from the sidewalk. Uh, I believe the the one near College Hall is probably within 5T of the sidewalk, but you know, 10 ft of the building cuz it's just not that much space between the two. Um, uh, >> I'm just going to try and go to uh, Google Maps and see if I can find it. >> Meredith, you're reading my mind because I can actually see it on the picture um, where we have the three buildings pictured. There's a little It's a little green structure um right on the sort of right hand side of College Hall. >> Yep. Near the >> next to the ramp. >> Yep. >> Yep. Exactly. >> Um I mean the difference is this is behind it um behind the building but it is there. So, give me one second and I will share this um just so that people can see. Um and I I I mean this was put here long enough that I have no idea if this was a this is where GMP wanted it. I mean it's really right near the pole. Um so that's the box here at the back of College Hall. Um here's Ridge Street. So, that's that. And it is pretty close to the sidewalk and the pole. Um, and then the other pole. >> Where are we talking about? >> Right there. >> But it's that building, right? >> Yeah. I got to go down the street. You got to go down the street cuz here's the utility pole. It's got to come from the one we're proposing. So here's it's actually paved access for really trucks to get back there. >> Yeah. So it could be right where you're >> So it could be closer to the sidewalk or it could be tucked up closer to the corner of the building. Thank you, Rebecca, for bringing this up. I I like your idea. Um, >> get it further away from the building. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because it, as Rebecca said, it becomes more utilitarian and less of a distraction from the looks of the building. Thoughts, Steve? because we do need we need all three of you to agree on the recommendation for it to be official. >> I think where wherever along that side paved area along that walkway or driveway whatever you you call it and think anywhere anywhere along there. I was just thinking if you got it back towards a building, it could be landscaped even further, which would again take take away from the appearance of a utility, but whatever. >> Yeah, I >> basically move it more to the right somewhere along there. somewhere along that line either out front or close to the building so that landscaping could provide a a distraction. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> Any thoughts about the tanks or that one all okay? Now, do the tanks is the property line of that adjacent building. I'm assuming those tanks have to be a certain distance from that that building, >> correct? Yeah. >> Yep. Those are that's the um for the site plan, they'll be I think it was whatever the setback requirement was for my purposes. Um they're going to meet that. >> I'm assuming those are insulated tanks that just store hot water, >> correct? Where's the boiler that creates the hot water? >> It's in the boiler room, uh, which is, um, if you that corner we're talking about in the basement in that corner, um, you know, where the >> outside is the old coal shoot. And so it's it's down in that corner. >> And that's an electric boiler. >> That's correct. Yeah. >> And that's more efficient than an LP or some other fuel source. Uh so it is 100% efficient at turning electricity into heat. It is more expensive than LP or oil. It's clean. Um and the reason it's can be cost effective is through the Green Mountain Power Flex Load Management Program. And so in that program, Green Mountain Power uh is very interested in selling power off peak at night uh when people are using a lot less. They have a lot available. So they'll sell it for inexpensively and actually that competes with the price of fossil fuels. And so that's the reason for the storage is that we're only going to do that heating uh off peak at night basically. And then we'll actually provide the heat throughout the day to the buildings. Interesting. Okay. Does anyone else have any other questions? Again, the consensus is that the transformer will be located along that driveway to the east, I'm sorry, to the west side of the building, uh, as close as possible either to the sidewalk or to the building itself. >> Yes. >> Okay. I have to read through a set of criteria for That's the basis of the whatever decision is made and I'll read through that all projects exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing buildings shall be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties. Um, and we'll actually move down to number three. Proposed landscaping shall be compatible with the neighborhood and site on which the project's located if landscaping is involved. If I'll say if used to screen the transformer, location and appearance of all utilities, mechanical equipment, trash storage, and fencing shall be cited to minimize adverse visual ual impact. So that was one of the reasons we're suggesting something to try to address that to minimize adverse visual impact or adequate adequately and appropriately screen from public view. acceptable architectural features including but not limited the cornises, windows, shutters, fan lights and table trim, other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the building. I'm not sure that that applicable in this case. >> Yeah, I think not. I just wasn't you were going to do to tweak it. >> I'll just say not applicable. So again, what it boils down to is the location and appearance of all utilities. And again, the idea is to minimize adverse visual impact or adequately and appropriately screen from public view. Again, to try to preserve the character and the beauty of the building. And again, our re the recommendation is to locate it along that driveway, either as close to the building with landscaping or as close to the sidewalk as possible. Again, to minimize the visual impact. All in favor based on that, speak your names. >> Based on that recommendation, this is Martha. I say yes. >> Same. Rebecca says yes. >> And Steve says yes. So three to zero in favor. >> So Steve just needs to make sure he fills out the actual recommendation on there and then Troy since you're here, we'll have you does it. I can >> if you want to come up have you sign it right there >> and then fill in the recommendation. >> Again, our goal was to visual minimize visual impact. That was the whole >> right part of the >> gist of the of the issue. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> So, you'll get a copy of that so you can see the exact text that goes into that. Um, and we'll be able to move forward with permitting tomorrow. >> Okay. Great. >> Awesome. >> Thank you very much. Good luck with the project. >> I'll be curious to see how that works. I have not seen one of those yet. You said there's another one up there. >> Not like that. >> We have three oil boilers. This is our the one that's the oldest. >> Okay. That you're gonna convert to this and then we'll see how this works. >> Yeah. We don't have plans for the other ones yet, but like we're improving campus. >> Good luck. Good luck and thank you for your efforts. It's appreciated. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. We can move forward to the next application for 29 Main Street. Applicant Amber French for placement of a science and a barber pole. >> Hi. So, my name is Becca. Um, I am here as a partner of Amber French. Um, and she is currently a nail tech with a barber. Um, and she is trying to open her own salon. She is currently at the salon Posh and Barry. Um, she is trying to do her own location. Um, a few things have changed since I talked to Meredith and submitted the permits. Um, we are unsure of if the location in Mont Pillar in the old Walgreens is going to work or not. Um, we do have another location that she is looking at. I obviously don't have like the photos and the the cut sheets like I did for the Walgreens building that I submitted to Meredith. Um, we're willing to do that. We just recently found this out this week. Um, so we're wondering what's if it's if the location is still in Mont Pillar if we're able to still um review the signage or if I would need to start fresh, make all new cut sheets and reapply um if the location is different than the one in Montpillar that we spoke of. Um this is this is Martha. Um my feeling is that if we are not proceeding with an application on 29 Main Street that we have to start over again and have a new application. Is that correct, Steve? >> Or we could table this one and have her come back with different information. So, so what I would recommend is that the three of you at least look and give your ideas on the location that's proposed here. And what we can do in planning is just hold off on issuing the permit um and have it be you know it can be and you can have it be tabled and then we would need to do one other meeting either to say yes this is the location so we can we get a vote versus if you have to switch it we're still in a point where we could switch things around on our end so you wouldn't have to pay for two permits. Yeah, that would be >> so yeah, once you once you confirm what the location is, then we would go from there and either come back with the same set of materials or um or whatever input you got from the committee. Yes. >> Or switch it to be able to review the the new location. >> Yeah. So, um we still are the barber pole is still what we're looking for. even if it's at a new location, we're still looking to do the wall um the projecting sign at the new location. Um we just might not have to do the wall sign um at the new location and that might have to get switched out to do a sign by the road. The new location that we're looking at is um it's a new building behind Salon 42. It's 388 River Street, I believe. >> We'll we'll Yeah. So, just we'll have to talk about the specifics there. If you're in a groundmounted sign, you can't have a projecting sign. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, we'll we'll talk about that with the new possible location, but if they get there, they can give input on this location. >> Yeah. >> The the concept the concept of the sign is nice. Uh the size of it depends on its location. Uh >> the sign would be again depending on the size of the location. Uh so that it might need to be smaller if there's a smaller location or smaller frontage >> and again the the size of the lettering would would also depend on its location as well. >> Okay. But again, and there was one other thing here that may or may not even apply to a different location. Uh on the under the mounting detail, it says conceal fasteners into the brick. If you have a brick face, any fasteners need to be in the mortar joints between the bricks, not in the bricks. >> Okay. Okay, that's good to know. >> Yeah. >> But again, those are just sort of minor changes. >> Okay. And again, the sign will just depend on where it is and the size of the of the frontage of the building. >> Okay. >> Um, and >> yeah, if if we table this, does she have to pay for another application? >> No. No. >> That and that was that was the the good part about the tableing it, right? She can get comments or any ideas at this location and then just come back when they're ready. It's tabled. they don't have to pay anymore. >> Okay. Then then I think tableabling it is the best approach. >> Yeah. Do you have any thoughts on what is presented? And there was they weren't able to it was sort of a last minute ad. The proposal here was to have the projecting sign also have a wall sign that would be un like near this left hand um light. Um and the barber pole because the barber poles we don't actually regulate as signs. Um so with extra time um even if they stay with this location maybe Becca you and Amber could mock up like a size for the the wall sign if you stay at this location for the next meeting. >> Okay. Um >> I know that the barber sign was the thing that you had said there were a lot of details about. So um are there things that we should know? >> Nope. It it actually I went back to it and what it is about the barber poll is that it is we actually don't really regulate it. It's one of the few things in in Montpillar where you can have it lighted internally lighted and you can have movement because we're there's there's like state mandates to sort of stay away from the barber pole. >> Okay. >> Um because it's such a traditional um >> Yeah. It's old. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So either way, you're saying we would basically be able to put the barber pole up? Yep. It's the key there is to make sure that just like with the sign that if you're mounting it into the brick that the fasteners go in the mortar joint so it's not damaging the brick itself. >> Okay. >> Just out of curiosity, what was the size of the space that you were looking at at this location? >> So, they took the old Walgreens and they split it up into suites. Um the suite that we were looking at was 532 square feet. >> Okay. >> And it's not along the windows. So they they split it all up. So where the windows are, that is a much larger suite. And then you go down the hall and there would be our suite. And then you go further down and there's like five suites downstairs and then apartments upstairs. Would your space have any windows at all to the outside? >> Um, they are adding windows currently to the side where the road goes down between that building and the city hall. It's just one small window per suite that doesn't have the front windows. >> Okay. >> It's not very big. It's like the only sunlight we would get in there. >> Yeah. Just for my curiosity, I'm going to stop sharing for a minute and I'll share again in a second just because we have people here and you have another location you're looking at. What was the address of the other location? It is 388. Wait, >> it's the address of Salon 42. So, so 42, but I don't know if it's considered Berlin or not Pillar. >> Yeah, that might be Berlin, in which case come back to us. So, give me one second. >> What about 338 River Street in Mont Pillar? That's another location. It's right down the road from the wayside on the opposite side. Okay. Oh, okay. I see where that is. >> Where So, what's happening is um there's somebody professional office condominiums. >> Yeah. And so, there's somebody that's on the first dibs already that they're waiting for an answer. So, we're hoping and praying that they decide to go elsewhere or don't take it. And that would be the ideal spot. Um even in addition. >> No, it that's that's not in design review. So, that actually wouldn't even come back to here. So, if you ended up switching to there, we'd actually probably we'd give you um just probably I don't know. We'll we'll work it out. But that that you wouldn't have to come back here. That's outside review district. >> Um so that would be just a a permit from me. Um >> Okay. So yeah, there because they already have this big um sign with spaces for everybody in it, you would have your signage there and probably some interior directional to point people to you. >> Um but you wouldn't be able to do a projecting sign. You'd have to do something else on the building. >> Okay. Um >> so yeah, they've already got their system going. Um, >> so I think you'll, you know, let us know what, you know, keep me informed of what the plan is and we'll work out how we're doing the permitting. >> Okay. >> Yeah. We, she wanted me to continue to go through tonight with this cuz she wasn't sure like how it went. So, I told her I would still hop in and >> um see, you know, what it entailed. We're new to all of this, so we don't really know. It's a dayby-day thing that we're figuring out. So, we weren't sure if it was like the sign itself needed to be approved or the location. And the sign is still going to be the same. So, we just figured we'd hop in and check it out. >> Yep. So, and that's the It'll be because if you do move if you do move out to that River Street location, um, and that one that we just looked at, >> because there's already that big ground mounted sign, um, you can't have a projecting sign. I can't permit a projecting sign, but we could do a wall sign, but you don't need to come back to design review if you switch there. >> I would just go to you. Okay. >> Yep. >> So, again, we we can table this application. And again, I would hold off making any signs until you find out where you're going to be because you might have to you might have to change the size and shape of it. >> Okay. Well, I appreciate all of you guys's input. I hope I didn't waste anybody's time. >> Oh, no. Not at all. >> Okay. Great. Thank you for Thank you for coming and at least getting some basic information. >> Absolutely. Thank you guys. I really appreciate it. >> And good luck finding your location. >> Thank you. And Meredith will be in touch either way. >> Perfect. All right. Thanks, guys. Have a good night. >> Bye-bye. >> So, at this point, do I hear a motion to table this? >> I This is Martha. I'll move to table it until next time. >> Yep. And Rebecca will second. And all in favor of tableabling it until they're ready to come back, speak your names, >> Martha, >> Rebecca, >> and Stephen. >> Thank you guys. >> Thank you. And again, good luck. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you, Becca. >> Thanks. >> Okay, >> everyone had a chance to look at the meeting minutes from August the 3. Um, this is Martha. I've read them both both versions. >> There's actually three versions. >> Okay. >> There's the traditional that Tammy did >> and then there's two other versions that are from our new AI subscription to MUN mins that the city is opted to go with for pretty much all of our committees. So, if you want, you can just read through the ones from Tammy for content um and have those be, you know, reviewing for the the last meeting minutes for approval and then the ones that are formatted a little differently. Look through those to see which style you prefer and then we'll be able to go forward with that moving forward. It's just different settings in the system. You mean we don't have the choice of going forward with Tammy's in the future? >> No, she couldn't keep doing it anymore for us. Um, and she was the only person who had been hired externally to do minutes. She did them for DRC, DRB, planning commission. Um, I don't think she did city council. Um, but she did at least those three. Um, and she couldn't do it anymore. Um, and so the city as a whole is moving to these other minutes as the for the first draft of them. Um, and then I, you know, I would review them just like I do already for Tammy's. Um, and then you'd have a chance to review. Um, but they have some different, you know, base settings for styles for either longer form or shorter form. I think given design review committee's history with wanting to make sure there's detail um in the minutes about what was discussed, my thought was probably you would want the longer form, but I wanted to make sure you saw what the options were. So, there's two different things that'll need to be decided if you know the minutes from Tammy are good, reflective of the August 3rd meeting and approve those or edit them and then which format of minutes you want going forward that will be used starting with tonight's minutes for the September 8th. >> Well, I'll make a motion to accept Tammy's minutes the way that they're written um for the August 3rd meeting. Are you in favor of the long form or the right short form? >> Right now she's just doing a motion to approve these. >> Oh, okay. >> As Tammy's minutes. >> Okay. So, we'll do it in two separate. >> Yeah. So, please >> do I hear a second on the August 3rd minutes? >> I second to approve. >> All in favor of the August 3rd minutes, speak your names. Martha, >> Rebecca, >> and Stephen, >> those minutes are approved. >> Thank you. >> And what is your preference going forward? The short form or the long form? >> I guess I think the the long form because we actually get a reflection of the discussion. And if there's certain formatting things you would like, like a little bit more formatting with headers, things like that, we can set that up so that that happens. Um, we can put in some preferences, we're still kind of playing around with it and getting to know it. >> Yeah, >> a long meeting. There's going to be a lot of minutes. >> Um, >> I know. Yeah. Well, this is not the longest longest option. Um, there's there's like a super detailed option, but that would only that would almost be a transcript and we're not that that seems >> God help us. We'd have to relive the whole meeting. >> Yeah. So, we're we're steering everybody away from that. We're like, no, somebody wants to we can develop a transcript from Zoom if we need to. Um, or somebody can just go listen to the whole recording >> as brief as possible that it gets the any important details. >> Yeah. One thing I'm thinking about is why in the roll call does it put in the people who are absent? Um, so we can have it not do that, but it does um it is sort of a double check, but we could have we could I could just erase that going forward if you don't want to see who's absent. Um >> well you in the final version we could tell the system not to include the people who are absent and >> just have the ones list the people who were present. >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> Makes sense to me. And then again, if it's possible to make brief account of what transpired as opposed to some of the conversations that went round and round and round, we don't need to rehash all of that. Mhm. >> So, if there's a way to do a brief of them of each applicant and the results. >> Yeah, I mean we can >> we can play around with how detailed it is for design review committee. Um, I think the the short form is too short. what you're seeing here might be too long, but I think we'll just see what transpires. Does that work >> and how it pans out? >> Okay. >> Yeah, >> we'll do a trial based on that. >> Okay. Definitely the short form is too short, but we'll play around with the long form >> and this isn't the longest form. >> All right. Okay. And again addressing the important parts. >> Yeah. >> And leaving out some of the aides that had no eventual impact on the decision. >> Yeah. And that may also be in part my also just going through and deleting some of it because I can do that. Um, I mean that's I I I would often back and forth both fill in a few things that were important for the minutes and delete some stuff that was aides that didn't really matter >> when we did it before. >> So, okay. >> Yeah. No, I can do that for sure. >> Do we need to vote on that or just take? >> Nope. Good. >> Nope, you don't need to vote. I just I needed your input so I knew where to go forward. >> Okay. >> Does anyone have anything else or do I hear a motion to adjurnn? Uh, this is Martha. I'll make a motion to adjurnn. >> This is Rebecca. I will second. >> All All in favor of adjournment, speak your names. >> Martha, >> Rebecca >> and Steven. Meeting is adjourned. Thank you for coming.