Moments with Melinda: Interview with Paul Graves

[music] Good morning and welcome to Moments with Melinda. I am your host Melinda Molton and today my guest is Paul Graves. How are you my friend? >> I am doing wonderful. >> I'm so honored to have you on my show. >> It's a bigger honor to be on your show >> and I have so much that I've researched on you. So, this is going to be a fun a fun half hour for my viewers. But let me tell them a little bit about you. Paul Graves is called a snowboarding pioneer by Time magazine and is often called the founding father of snowboarding. He has led the snowboarding industry since its inception. In 1996, Paul was named an ambassador of the state of Vermont by the Office of Travel and Tourism under Howard Dean's administration. Paul's career comprises nearly 40 years of accomplishment in managing events, marketing, sales, and promotion. He is a snowboarding champion and one of the leaders of snow sport in the country. Thanks for being here today. >> Thank you. Wow. >> I've been wanting to have you on my show for a long time. So, let's start at the beginning. Paul, share a little bit about your childhood. I believe you were born and raised in Alabama. >> Uh, correct. Yep. I was uh up until the age of seven and then my father uh got a a job in New York City which was a big deal coming from Alabama and so we moved to New Jersey and that was where I saw snow for the first time. >> Did you have siblings? >> I do. I have an older sister. Have an older sister and I have a younger brother. Um, >> and what did your dad do and your mom? What'd your mom do? [clears throat] >> Well, my mom for a long time was just that classic mom at home holding everything together. My dad was a uh in the early years a traveling salesman. And then, like I said, he he got a big break to go uh to New York City uh with US Borax, the old 20 mule team company. And uh so that's what took us up north. >> Well, now Paul, your your computer sort of moving. Can we keep it stable? >> That's me, Melinda. >> Okay. >> Maybe if I set it down and just sort of >> Oh, don't do that. No, no, no. Keep it the way it was. But but just try just try not to move too much. It's >> it's um and this is for television, so we got to be be a little careful here. All right. So that's much better. Thank you. So now so thank you for that. And so your mother held down three jobs while your dad worked for the for the mule team of Borax. Beautiful. That's good to know. So now you I want to talk about when you were 10 and a friend of yours, a friend of your father's friend of your dad's told you to go into the garage and grab a single cross-country ski to slide on and you spent the entire day standing up with both feet on that one lone ski. Talk to us about that day and what you remember. >> I I remember that day uh clearly. Uh it it it was neighbors across the street and I got invited to go to the local town hill and uh I did not have uh the only thing that I had snowreated was one of those aluminum saucers that you know back in the 60s you would sit on and slide down the hill. So, um, I I was told to go in the garage, the neighbor's garage, and and pick out and something to take to the hill. And I I don't know why, but I picked up one wooden crossount ski and threw it in the car and went to the hill. And yes, you are right. I spent all day long uh taking a lot of verbal abuse as a 10year-old of of you know what are you doing where's your other ski and I just didn't know anything about winter sports at that time other than the that thrill that sensation of trying to basically surf down the hill. Uh, it grabbed me and it it has never let go. >> Wow. Incredible. What a story. Well, in 1965, Sherm Poppin of Muskiggon, Michigan. He took his children sliding down a hill on two skis that he nailed together. and he received a patent for the surfer in 1968 and later licensed the manufacturing rights to Brunswick Corporation. Now, Brunswick was so I don't know how Brunswick became impressed by you, but talk to us about that and about Mr. Poppin and and and the and and your and your introduction into Brunswick. >> Sure. Well, Sherm is the man. Um, you know what? He came up that day with uh it it actually he he had two young daughters. It was Christmas day and his wife was doing what every wife does on Christmas, you know, putting the meal together, blah blah. And she told Sherm to get the kids out of the house. They were driving her nuts. So, uh, his oldest daughter, who I'm I'm friends with to this day, Wendy, uh, had a pair of little JC Penny uh, skis, children's skis, and for whatever reason that day, Sherm took a little cross piece of wood and nailed those two skis together, and they started playing around. They lived on the dunes of Lake Michigan in Moskegan. And uh so the the gorgeous part of this story was there there was no game plan. He just did it. His daughters were having fun sliding. And uh the story that Sherm always shared with me was that by coincidence the CEO of the Brunswick Corporation, which at the time was uh heavily involved in bowling alleys and pool tables. and he drove by. He was being chauffeurred to work one day and he drove by this slope and saw some kids sliding on this item. He stopped, got out of his car, and within a week he had made a deal with Mr. Poppin to uh build the first SNER uh which was classified as a snow toy. But the crazy part is that the snurfer was a leftover piece of wood from the curve of a pool table. And so this guy recognized that he could take a scrap from their other business. And so anyhow, the SNER was launched. >> So what's a SNER? What is it? [clears throat] >> The SNER was it looked like one single water ski and it had no bindings. It had staples on the top and put a little rope on the front for to hold on to as you slid down the hill. And I is I remember the store I was in. It was WT Grants. And I bought my first SNER for $5.99. And then got all my friends in the neighborhood to buy snurfers. And we started terrorizing backyards and golf courses and back hills. And I I it just was the most fun that I could have as a kid. So, >> but Sherm Poppin must have made some money off of his snurfers, did he? >> Shernm Poppin did well. Uh, he uh, yes, it turned out to be a a lucrative licensing agreement with Brunswick and after a few years, I'll [clears throat] end this original story here. Uh, Brunswick made a decision, okay, we think we've had a good run and they were going to give it up. and the executives that were running the program said, "No, no, no, no. We're not giving this up." So, they actually left for, excuse me, a new corporation called the Gym Corporation, and they continued to make SNER uh into the 70s, and I got involved uh >> Yeah. My next question is if Brunswick was impressed by you and then something happened. I mean, you didn't weren't you pulled into this sport? >> Yes. Here's another coincidence that took place. I lived in New Jersey at that time. And uh as it turned out, an executive with the Brunswick Corporation happened to live uh in roughly in my neighborhood. And I was just one of those kids that uh once I found that out, I knocked on his front door and one thing led to another and I became uh basically the first proriter for uh the Schnurfer company. And uh all through the 70s they used me to do demos and exhibitions and radio promotions and so you know slowly over time. Uh >> so Paul you started making changes to the SNER didn't you? >> Yes I did. >> Talk to me about that. >> Oh I can't hear you. I don't know. >> Can you hear me now? >> I can hear you now. Yeah. >> Okay. Um, yeah, just through evolution, um, it was never a snow toy to me. It was a it was something I used all winter long. And its biggest issue was you stood on this board with no bindings. And so one of the first things I did was cut up an old leather belt and I screwed it into the surfer for straps. Uh so the board would stay on my feet and then started to experiment with shapes and it needed to be longer, it needed to be wider. And so, uh, I I I >> And and Jake and and Jake Burton, I mean, he was a snurfing enthusiast. >> Yes. >> So, so talk about your first meeting with with u with Jake Burton. >> Well, that's that's a pretty interesting part of the history. Um, at the time all through the 70s when I was trying to promote this as a sport, I there I was a solo act and I went to a uh a trade show, a sporting goods trade show and I I think it was 78 and I saw this guy who wasn't in the main hall. They had him under a stairwell and he had a card table and it ended up being Jake and we met and um at that point in time he Jake started Burton in 77 but it didn't really take off until the 80s. But anyhow I I recognize that here's a kindred spirit. This guy believes like I believe. But our big moment came in 1979 at the National Nerf Championship. >> Keep going. You keep going in and out and you are moving a lot. Could you set your iPad up on a book or something against something so it's steady? >> Sure. >> I think you holding it. It's just wobbling and I don't I want my producers to to be relatively happy with this. So >> I hear you. All right. Let me >> Let me try this. >> They can edit this part. >> Is that too much overhead glare? No, I think it's better as long as it's steady. >> Okay. >> You don't touch it because I don't want the sound to go away. >> Okay. >> All right. You're good. You're good. Okay. Continue on. >> So, in 1979, I was out as the uh featured writer at the National Smurfer Championships. And that was the year that Jake came to the competition. Now, at this up till this point in time, there was nothing but surfers. And so Jake showed up and wanted to enter the contest. And the uh the Gem Corporation basically said, "No, no, you can't. You're not riding a Smurfer." Uh and I went to bat for Jake. I kind of went against my uh sponsors and said, "This is a championship. you know, if he wants to ride, I I insisted that he be allowed to ride. So, they created a category of one. Um, and so Jake uh won his division that day. Um but the beauty of that was that um shortly after that event in 1979, the Gym Corporation called it quits. And so Jake and I uh kind of formed an alliance uh trying to promote what we were now calling snowboarding rather than snurfing. So, >> so now before you get there, I'm going to I'm going to hold you back just a bit. You did a commercial for snurfing and you received a royalty check and I believe that that impressed your father. Uh, and then you then you did create the National Smurfing Association in 79. Talk to me about that moment with your dad when you when you because I'm sure he was like, "What is my son doing?" And then you end up getting this royalty check. Talk to me about that. >> Yeah, that that was really crazy. Um that commercial came out of that 1979 event and um in the other division I kind of threw out the window. It was just a downhill event and I was starting to introduce spins and flips. Um so I kind of threw away my downhill run and got fancy. And so uh be because of that I got the uh invitation to appear in a commercial for Labot's Blue Beer out of Canada. >> How old were you? >> I was at this point in time 24ish. >> Okay. So Lebat. Okay. Go ahead. And so my dad, you're right, he he did not understand what I was doing at all. He really wanted me to follow in his footsteps and work, you know, with the company that he was with, but it it just wasn't in the cards. So I did not have support until um I did the commercial. But it we shot two weeks in Canada and Colorado with Jay Walter Thompson, big ad agency. It was a big deal. And [clears throat] I had recently moved to Connecticut, but my mail was still going to my home in New Jersey. And so one night my father called me and he and he always called me son. And he goes, "Son, you got a lot of envelopes here at the house." And I I was like, "What are you talking about?" And and because I didn't understand the Screen Actors Guild and all of that, which we had to join. But anyhow, he he he goes, "Well, you better come get them because I think it's money." So once he realized and it was money, it was uh a shocking amount of money um to where every month one of these checks was showing up as as royalty payments. So that was his reckoning that well maybe this is going to work out all right. >> My son is a brilliant genius. So now this led you to join up with Jake Bergen, who of course is now deceased. Um, and your snow snurfing morphed into the snowboarding. So talk to us about that time when you when you developed this relationship with Jake and how that that kind of brought you to did that bring you to Vermont where you and your wife Denise opened the first shop at Mount Tom. Is that what brought you to Vermont? Well, [clears throat] Jake had had just moved to Vermont and I we my wife Denise and I got married in December of 1979. And I knew then that we were either going to move up to Vermont or to Northern California because I I kind of tricked my wife into believing that this could happen. But we ended up choosing Woodstock, Vermont because Woodstock has a really rich uh winter sports history and it had a good vibe and and it was about 40 minutes away uh from Jake. So yeah, I I helped Jake in his early years um but not as an an employee. We we were always separate individuals, but Jake decided to to make Burton snowboards, and I chose to make snowboarding a sport. >> Here it goes. Yep. Um, and so yeah, I I bet your next question is going to lead to the 1982 championships in Woodstock. But >> well it well it does. But after you opened this first snowboard show, you became one of the sport's earliest rider representatives in professional uh snowboarding and after you moved to Vermont and started Snowboard East, one of the steps that led to your organizing the first OG invitational weekend which c which just celebrated its 40th anniversary in 2022. Yeah. So I am there now with you. So, my friend Paul Graves, >> well, moving to Woodstock was was the the right call and um it took a little time because it didn't matter if Jake or Tom Sims or any of the other earlier names. We were forbidden from getting on a mountain. You know, they just did not want us there. And so that's when I left that 79 Smurfer event. I knew that we had to get serious. We we had to stop treating it like a a frat party on the weekend. And you know, and so I I did I opened the first snowboard shop um in >> Mount Tom, right? >> Uh yes, the the Mount Tom in Woodstock, not the one in Massachusetts, right? >> The one in Woodstock. Yeah. So back again that was when uh Lawrence Rockefeller lived in Woodstock and was the face of the Woodstock in Resort and they they were very kind to me. I I made it clear that I moved to Woodstock with this mission and uh it took a couple of years from 79 to late 81, but I kept lobbying Suicide Six and they finally agreed to host the first I the first true national championship that you know that like I said wasn't a beer party at over a weekend in Moskegan. So that was a big deal. >> So in the 1970s and 1980s, ski areas did start to open their slopes. Um and but there only and today there's only three, I believe, skiers in the country that do not allow snowboarders on their slopes. >> Correct. >> But you were probably instrumental in opening up the sport around the country, right? >> Yeah. it. There was years of um just going to ski area after ski area and it was across the country and into Canada. And you know as our numbers grew, participants grew, um you know, we started rental programs and once the mountains understood that our money was the same color that the skiers used, that they were welcome to take that money from us. But um that wasn't until the mid80s before that acceptance really showed up. So, you know, there were 20,000 people recently who were jammed into City Hall Plaza in Boston to watch the big names in snowboarding defy gravity. And I'm wondering whether you had something to do with that big event. Did you? >> Um, not directly. No, I I didn't. But, um, >> but that's amazing. 20,000 people. >> It's unbelievable. And you you know, you get we have these superstars now. and and that Boston event we featured Zeb Powell and 20,000 people >> people >> and the research firm FactMr estimates that the global snowboarding market is a 310 billion dollar industry and you were one you were very responsible for the rise of this sport. Why did snowboarding grow in such popularity? What do you think? What's the magic there? I'm not a snowboarder. I'm a skier and I ski at Mad River. So, I'm sure all the snowboarders are mad at me, but anyway, that's my mountain. Um, so talk to me about why did it grow in such popularity? >> I wish I could write that book. All I know is, and I've said this since I was 10 years old, the thrill of surfing a mountain. And I I'm not a a diehard skier. I I have skied, but skiing never upped the energy level like snowboarding did. And it was something new. Uh there was a revolution that took place. And >> is it easy? Is it easier than skiing? >> Is it is it because you don't need boots because you can just >> tie wear any boots? I believe it is easier, but the reasons are balance and a natural stance that we all have. When you strap into a pair of skis with boots and poles that is a whole different sense of balance. It's an unnatural balance versus two feet on one board and your body acts as one. That's a really simple explanation, but it is awesome. And >> so, yeah, I Well, I I mean, I've thought about getting into it, but everybody says, "No, mom, you're going to fall. You're going to fall on your butt all the time. It's going to hurt your back." And so, I've never gotten into it. But did you help snowboarding get into the Olympics? And talk about the evolution of the sport over the years in Olympic competition because it's changed. They used to go through gates and now it's much more sophisticated. talk about that transformation and were you involved in getting it in the Olympics? >> Uh [clears throat] yes, I was involved. Um and that all came out of of wanting the sport to be legitimate. And so after my 82 event at Suicide 6, which depending on what side of the fence you were on as a snowboarder, we came out of Woodstock going, "We killed it." Unbelievable. You know, we took on mountains. We had competitors that had never ridden a mountain, had never been on a chairlift, and showed up that weekend and and we did it. On the other side of the fence, you had the ski industry that was watching very closely. And we got through that weekend with no serious injuries, meaning no breaks, nobody went to the hospital, but we had crashes that are still shown today from that event, which those were the growing pains. now getting but coming off [clears throat] that 82 event, Vermont Life, a magazine that I'm sure you're fully aware of. >> I am, >> did a an amazing cover story on snowboarding and where they thought it was going to happen. I predicted in 1982 that we were headed to the Olympics. I didn't know when, but that's where we were headed. Um, so that movement really didn't kick into gear until the 90s. Um, but I worked with uh CBS, had the uh 98 Olympics, and that's who I had worked with behind the scenes uh not only them with the Olympics, but also with the uh ESPN X Games. that was another uh area that I worked really hard on to to you know to bring to the masses. >> So you were you were instrumental in that. Well I also I want to talk to you a little bit about you narrated the film The Dawning. Talk to us about this film project and where my viewers can see the film. >> Wow. The Dawning. Um that makes me tingle. Um Gary Land with East Street Archives is one of snowboarding's premier uh film areas. Gary anyways has through cameras and film documented the rise of snowboarding. Uh they approached me uh for the main reason they approached me was I have a 60year collection of snowboarding. I mean I've saved everything from the time I was 10 years old. Again I don't know why. It's just something that I did. Um, so we uh it's it's a beautiful documentary on basically the birth of snowboarding. Uh, it you can see it. It's on YouTube. Uh, >> when did it come out, Paul? >> It came out about a year and a half ago. >> Okay. So, has that ever been presented to the International Ski History Association for an award? >> No. I suggest you do that. So, are you still snowboarding? I do. I suggest you do that. And I and I will look it up on YouTube and as my viewers should. The film is The Dawning. The narrator is Paul Graves. So, are you still snowboarding? >> Um, I still can snowboard. I have my legs have paid uh a very high price. >> Um, because if you think about it, I wish I knew the vertical feet. Every time I came down a mountain, I had to walk up that mountain. >> So, I've had six surgeries. You know, I've had every procedure there is. >> So, do you still snow surf? Do you ever >> I again, I can, but I pay a heavy price. >> What about What about any Do you have any grandchildren? Do they Have they ever tried snow surfing? I have uh five grandkids and uh one more in the oven as they say. And >> lucky man. You lucky man. >> I have um I teach them. Yes. I I'm I'm two in and I still coach. I'm proud to say that even though I uh you know it's the the pain of riding isn't worth it, but I I I still coach at a private boarding school. Good for you. Now you know you were inducted into the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum's Hall of Fame. I think a very famous filmmaker made a little piece about you. >> Yeah. This guy named Rick. >> Guy named Rick Molton. Who the is that guy? >> Now talk to us about this museum and your relationship with it and how how did it make you feel to be inducted into Vermont's premier um organization? it. >> Well, that's a multi-prong question. Um, I got invol I was the another thing I'm proud of. [clears throat] I was approached I don't know 15 maybe 17 years ago. Do you remember Bill McCullum? >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, I was approached by Bill who was was on the board uh of the Vermont Ski and at that time the Vermont Ski Museum [clears throat] and then I was honored to get invited to be on the board, but again found [clears throat] myself solo. I was in a room full of skiers trying to, you know, speak for snowboarding. Um, so I was very honored to do that. I've taken it seriously. Uh, yes. I think it was 2016 they honored me [clears throat] by being inducted into the Hall of Fame and move forward to today. And I don't know if I'm jumping ahead of a question, but the museum in Stow right now is featuring an exhibition of my collection of 60 years worth of snowboarding memorabilia. Uh, so I encourage your listeners uh and fans of winter sports to try to make it to the Stow Museum and see this amazing collection of of snowboarding history. >> And they also had the Red Bench lecture series which you which you did and I I think that's online. So my viewers should go to Stow. It's right in the center of town. If you've not been to the museum, the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum, go to it. And Paul Graves's um 65 years of of collections of his hoarding, all this stuff these years is being exhibited. And if you're a snowboard or a skier enthusiast, >> Absolutely. >> So, what keeps you busy nowadays, Paul? Well, you do like, you know, I think I've retired three times and it just never seems to pan out. I I do have a good amount of of time for myself and my family, but again, I I coach I I uh >> You do interviews? >> I do interviews. I do a lot of, you know, work still for snowboarding and new riders. I uh I love promoting upand cominging talent. Uh so I just try to stay out of trouble. >> So you know what? We don't we never retire until we're in the grave. I think we repurpose we repurpose our lives and and we end up being more busy. I think when that comes because we're not sitting doing a job and you know garnering a salary. We have time to just do the things we've always wanted to do. And so we repurpose Paul. We never retire. So, what words of wisdom would you give to my viewers about achieving their goals and stepping up to meet their dreams as you have in your lifetime? What are your words of wisdom? >> Well, I think if anyone's lucky enough to to find something that [clears throat] they they just love. I mean, you can't explain it. And um if you're lucky and you find it, I say grab a hold of it and run. Just just follow your dreams. Everybody told me that snowboarding would never happen. I was told I can't even put a number on how many times I would give an exhibition to a ski area or just give a talk. And [clears throat] every time I >> Well, weren't they wrong? They were just wrong. So, bless your heart for pursuing and staying on track. No pun intended. Um, you're a beautiful man and I love seeing you at the events at the Vermont Ski and Snowboard Museum host and um, I'm so honored to call you my friend. >> Absolutely. Me, >> you and Rick are two wonderful wonderful people doing the work and so this is this is an honor for me. I thank you. >> Well, bless your heart and I'll see you around. I'll see you around town. And to my viewers, thank you for joining and enjoy this last few weeks of August. And um go on, get out and and enjoy Vermont. Certainly a beautiful place to be this time of year. Thank you, Paul. We'll talk soon. >> Thank you.