Mikhaila Peterson Confronts The Woke Mob, Cancel Culture, and Curing Depression

people are getting sicker and fatter and more miserable it's what you're eating it's what you're exposing yourself to the amount of chemicals and the food we eat in America is insane compared to the rest of the world my mom was extremely ill my dad was extremely ill and we were just starting to be like let's try to get like life back up again and then it was like Wham hitpiece from the Sunday Times my dad was extremely depressed so he was already taking anti-depressants at the time and was like I think Michaela has what I have what does it feel like to someone who's never experienced depression being depressed just Michaela thank you so much for coming on the ice coffee hour we really appreciate it we're huge fans thank you thank you for inviting me so of course we we first heard about you through Jordan then I got interested in your story and it is so fascinating and impressive so you had a multitude of different like ailments and diseases and you claim that you're like allergic to like everything unfortunately yeah I'm glad that's what I'm known for I tried I tried to start the Pod I have a podcast and I tried to start that and be like okay I'm going to try and do something other than that but it's with me still the thing is I'm okay with it when you search for like when I was doing research on you it's the only thing that came up consistently like you have to search for anything else other than that because those are the most popular videos you it's not even a bad thing I don't think but it's impressive because you like overcame all of that stuff yeah yeah you want to hear details first I would love to go into your upbringing and your story so there's this famous story that you grew up in like a small house with 300 paintings in this house okay and one night you were woken up because a painting of lenon fell on your head yeah so this is this is true it actually woke you up a painting in your room of Vladimir Lennon yeah so my dad started buying Soviet art when I was in I think I was in grade six pretty tiny house paintings covered everything there were hundreds and hundreds of paintings in there and then when I left for University they like cuz I didn't want any Lenin paintings in my room when I was growing up as a kid which I specifically or just like General scary ones cuz there were War paintings there were St paintings Lenin paintings they like violent paintings paintings of of War SC how old I think when they start get started getting bought I was 11 or 12 I 12 did you have a say and say like I don't want this above there not once I left for University so it was after I left for University I came back and my room was filled with Lenin paintings cuz i' had been like no Lenin paintings in my room when I was a kid and a teenager and yeah I was lying in bed at night and this huge probably 7t by 4T painting of Lenin yeah f on me were they expensive like I'm curious how much they were so they weren't allowed to export any art in the Soviet Union when when there was a wall up so all the countries in the Soviet Union had tons of Art and the government paid people to make propaganda art too so there was a lot of art stuck in there and when the Wall came down a lot of these people who' collected pieces of art for years put them on eBay to sell them and they were extremely cheap like we didn't have a lot of money before we started getting business opportunities and dad went viral we really didn't have very much money he was spending some money on Art but it was dirt cheap and it was it was quite a bit for people who were like stuck in the Soviet Union times but no it was it was cheap on eBay and like 200 what was like six five and what was it about those pieces of art that made him want to collect them I mean he's always done work in trying to understand evil like malevolence in people and how entire societies can go towards evil so Nazis what happened with the Soviet Union where like people were going to the government telling on their brothers and and their parents and government would get involved and I think one he thought it was beautiful like he's always been very into design and how things look but I think the historical significance of how a culture can get like saturated with that kind of evil has just obsessed him so I don't know why he wanted to necessarily bring it into the house this is like a nice calm house I also didn't know for a really long time I didn't know that other houses weren't exactly like that like I went over for playdays and I was like this is a nice house but it wasn't until I went to University when I was like oh we had like 32 different paint colors in our house and it there was covered in Soviet art and it wasn't until I was like 23 that I thought oh that was that was unique I'm sure you were used to at this point very interesting like table talk and discussions and philosophical discussions did these like thrill you as a kid or do you think that like you were kind of just like ah whatever like I'll play Kate these conversations no they weren't boring for sure like Dad definitely brought it down to like my brother and my level when we were a kid so I grew up knowing the psychological significance of the biblical stories um mostly focusing on the Old Testament and so I knew the background of these things and he taught me about like Egyptian mythology and Greek mythology and I always thought that was fascinating so no it wasn't it wasn't boring or like he was lecturing at me or anything it was interesting but it it definitely I mean that's been my entire life I thought those were normal discussions but were you ever naturally rebellious to that because I know a lot of kids like especially when the parents are like trying to force some sort of thing on their not force but like you know being very outwardly about their opinion on something like kids are like no I don't believe that like actually not really like I was rebellious in other like horrible like ways as a teenager like sneaking out drinking doing things like that rebellious so no we've had disagreements about like certain things over the years but nothing major it wasn't like ideology that we argued about it was more like I want to go party and I probably shouldn't and why am I not allowed and I'm going to do it anyway type of conversations how inquisitive would you be on that if he tells you no to something would you naturally question it and wonder why everything was a negotiation and if we ever had a disagreement in the family over like chores or things then it was sit down at the kitchen table and we're going to sit here until this conversation is finished and there are no more snakes under the rug which was intense so we'd be there for like 3 hours trying to you know why do I have to clean this area of the house or just simple things like that which views would you would you say were like most strongly implemented into you as a kid which belief systems like okay I believe in honesty which which virtues probably being skeptical of authority I don't know if you would call that a virtue although I think it's a virtue now for sure and maybe it's always been a virtue but I think skepticism of authority so I remember in grade three or four uh we were told we weren't allowed to pick up snow outside because they didn't want people making snowballs and throwing them at each other and my dad's rule was don't listen to stupid rules it doesn't matter who makes the rule don't listen to stupid rules you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences of not listening to those stupid rules but you don't have to listen to them and he put that in from like a moral perspective like it's not wrong of you to not listen to stupid rules even if there are repercussions and then I guess the other one would be I mean it was hammered into me from a really young age to tell the truth you know when you have something you want to say and you're like maybe I shouldn't say it even that's a type of lie that you shouldn't do so it was truth and then it was don't listen to stupid rules I think those were probably the two lessons how do you know it's a stupid rule though cuz I'd imagine the teachers don't think that's a stupid rule yeah and I think that's what plays into like tell the truth it is hard to decipher and I think that's why America is also so split nowadays because like what's a stupid Rule and the Republicans will say well these are stupid rules and then liberals will have the opposite point of view no those are good rules So It's Tricky I guess he just he just let us lose with our own morals like you guys can decide what stupid rules are but I think he he classified not being able to pick up snow as a stupid Rule and as he started to gain in popularity how did that affect the family dynamic in your life it was pretty awful honestly it was like 2016 when he first had a video that went viral was that the bill c16 video that's the first time I saw you expl for those that okay so I might butcher this but you you let me know okay so basically the Canadian government was trying to implement bill c16 which mandated preferred speech basically so like if someone asks you to call them a certain pronoun you have to do that and it's punishable by like a criminal offense or something like that and he was very outspoken against this bill and then there was an argument outside of Campus or within campus between him and a bunch of other students I was at that you were at that that must have been scary for you yeah a little bit it was cuz that's combative that was like high intense it was it was yelling oh and they were blasting what are those those horns so you could air horns so it it was stressful and it wasn't fun at the begin like it's it's way more fun now but at the beginning it was his dad going to lose his job at the University which was his main source of income and that was a serious possibility because people were posting things on his doors and like he couldn't really get to his office easily some of his friends or who he thought were his friends were taken back by what he was saying so he lost a whole bunch of friends so it was like who are our friends now and we just became aware of this political divide that we hadn't been aware of before things didn't really calm down until like 2021 so it was stressful for like about 5 years being put up against so much adversity does it actually make you reconsider some of your opinions or did it solidify those opinions cuz like okay I see your best argument and I think that what you're doing right now is really aggressive and it's an emotional based argument okay I am 100% firm in my beliefs or are you like well once you know Dad's Friends start to get upset at him and then I see like you know signs on our doors and I see all these hate comments like maybe I'm maybe I could be wrong on this not really that didn't happen to me anyway um mostly because if you like say the event that we were talking about where everyone's yelling at him outside the campus the people yelling at him were like lunatics like so you look at them and you're like who's the reasonable person in this in this conversation is it the people screaming although dad was like had raised his voice at that point too everyone was yelling but it was pretty clear to me that people who were going against him that there was something off there so I don't think I reconsidered any of my points because of the push back or any of his points because of the push back who is your father to you other than your dad was he someone you looked up to as an idol I definitely looked up to him growing up otherwise I don't think I would have gone into psychology and Classics and been interested in the same kind of ideas so I definitely looked up to him and then now my husband and I actually are managing his social media and brand and doing like negotiations and things uh so now he's also my boss somewhat is a weird family Dynamic but it works out I tried to hand off the job a bunch of times but since we got more well- known people appear and they'll like oh yeah I'll help you and then it turns out they're just after money or something so I've tried to like hand off his brand or handoff negotiations and things and it's mostly just turned into people trying to screw us over which is why we've kept it in the family I imagine that's brought you guys all a lot closer together like all of these controversies and like crazy experiences and people like hating yes it has I'm definitely way closer with my mom I was also so young like when this started I was 23 or 22 so I just gotten over the teenage years where you're already kind of like fighting with your parents and things I'm definitely closer with my family I think my entire family is closer but we're it's hard to tell because we're also older I think it's solidified trust between us though that we wouldn't have necessarily had because we've had to like band together to get through some of these things although before we go into that if you have a website you know how important it is to be on the first page of Google but not only that even if you're on the first page of Google the first three results get the vast majority of traffic so if you're not there you're missing out on a lot of growth the problem though is that navigating the world of SEO can be incredibly challenging unless if you have access to the right tools like our sponsor atrs atrs is the go-to SEO software for professionals worldwide that is everything you need to rank higher and get more traffic with HFS you can conduct in-depth keyword research spy on your competitors track your ranking positions and even perform comprehensive site audits all in one place for example with the organic keywords report you could see the keywords that any website or URL ranks for and get an estimation for the amount of search traffic that each keyword generates you can also use the top pages report to see the URLs that drive the most search traffic to a given site as well as the estimated traffic value and top organic keywords that they rank for too right now you could run unlimited site audits check keywords and backlinks for free by signing up for hrefs webmaster tool at hrs.com awt again that's hrs.com awt or you could click the link in the description thank you so much hre for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast so on the topic of health issues which is like the thing that like we were mentioning before this podcast like when we search up your name that's like all of the results because of just how extreme it seems it was really bad yeah what is it that you currently are eating I'm just eating ruminant meat which is like lamb beef bison and to be clear there's nothing else in your diet other than meat there's salt vodka and occasional vodka yeah that vodka just like destroys they're like oh it's a health diet but there's also vodka but um we're talking like vegetables breads absolutely not no sauces no nothing nothing salt okay so to explain these drastic measures what was your experience that made you determine okay I just need to eat meat because we discussed earlier that you were suffering from a lot of like chronic illnesses like Lyme disease arthritis celiac disease leaky gut I think the worst one was I was extremely depressed so I was on anti-depressants from the age of 12 till till I kind of figured out the diet could alleviate those symptoms when I was 23 how do you know your depressed at 12 I got angry at somebody for not following the rules of a game we were playing I was 12 right I thought it was a stupid rule it was I was like you're not following the rules this isn't fair but I remember going inside slamming the door going into my room slamming the door and sitting on my bed and being like I can't control my anger I was aware enough to be like I don't think this level of anger is appropriate for someone who's breaking the rules of a ball game so that was one thing but it wasn't actually like I didn't really clue into it um because I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis um they give really chronically ill kids a psychiatrist usually to try and I don't know if that even helps but like good luck you need someone to talk to like your life is not great and the psychiatrist gave me the back scale and a back scale gives you questions like do you have sdal thoughts do you ever feel it would be better off if you weren't around sad questions like that and then you rate it on a scale so it's pretty objective but my parents had sent me to them or had encouraged me to go because my dad was extremely depressed too so he was already taking anti-depressants at the time and was like I think Michaela has what I have cuz we've got this severe depression that's run through my family like my great grandpa my grandpa my dad and then it hit me that's what we thought at the time anyway and so I was diagn diagnosed by a psychiatrist when I was 12 what does it feel like to someone who's never experienced depression you know when you go into a really like a dark alley or a scary neighborhood and it feels like someone might jump you and you're like kind of on high alert and you're like looking around and just hyper stimul ulated and aware it's that feeling all the time or it's the feeling like your dog that you've had since you were a kid is dying it's like this deep grieving pain almost it was easier to identify what depression felt like when it finally lifted and what changed for me was my thought patterns changed so instead of being like something bad is going to happen all the problems in my life turned into opportunities so like here's a challenge and it wasn't like my life is going to be over because I have this challenge it was oh I can beat Challenge and then there there'll be new opportunities but being depressed just well it just destroys your life so I had arthritis and the arthritis was the worst arthritis my kid rheumatologist had seen in 25 years of treating kids with arthritis had my hip and Ankle replaced when I was 17 it was catastrophic and the amount of like pain I had from the arthritis wasn't even comparable to what the depression felt like what does it feel like to have arthritis it's like what an old what you would imagine an old person would feel like it's like you're all your joints are stiff and painful and then for the hip and Ankle like the cartilage lit literally my body ate the cartilage away so it was just bone on bone and at that point it's excruciating do you think depression can be solved for anybody yeah I do I think it depends what's causing it part of what I tell people if they have chronic illness is you need to figure out how to fix it it's fixable like people aren't born to have some sort of pro now say that there are genetic abnormalities that could be different I don't believe the genetic abnormalities for depression and I do think that if you have any type of chronic illness you need to go and search out for the answers and Main the mainstream medical system doesn't cover chronic illness very well so if you have any type of chronic illness like autoimmune any type of like psychiatric or long-term problem you'll go to the doctor and they'll say here's a drug it'll help but it won't cure you there's no cure right so if you have arthritis they'll say they'll put you on immune suppressant it might help there's a host of side effects but it won't cure you and you're diagnosed with multiple joint Replacements in the future and an ear death if you have autoimmune disorders and the medications don't prevent that so like none of it works so go out and look in a different direction and what I tell people to do is at least start with diet it's like that's changed my my my mom's on the diet my dad's on the diet I'm on the diet because we all have different weird autoimmune things going on but that's usually where I tell people start so no I I think I think depression is curable even if it's some sort of PTSD depression I think there are things you can do about it and it's just hopeless if you think I'm stuck with this forever this is my this is is like this is just me I don't believe that and what made you think that you should try out diet rather than all of these other remedies when you're suffering from all these ailments so I was diagnosed in grade two and I didn't delve into diet really until I was 23 so it was mostly because I was like well the mainstream medical route isn't working I've had a hip and ankle replacement when I was 17 I was like I'm screwed and when I was 23 I was like I was actually I dropped out of University um because I was too sick and I was I had chronic fatigue at that point too and I was like I can't make make it to my final exams that's it I went into makeup School much to my dad's chrin he was like he was like you're not going to be intellectually stimulated there and I was like you don't know me dad so I went into makeup school for like a semester and my wrist was so sore because you stand all day and you do someone's makeup and I was like I can't even use my wrist like what am I doing in makeup it's like me becoming a surgeon or something this is this is ridiculous and at that point uh you know I went to my doctor and I was like I think my wrist cuz it really hurt and I was like I think it's headed in the same direction as my hip and ankle and he was like oh joint Replacements are really rare at your age I was like I've had two like they they don't seem that rare and that's when I decided to go into biomedical science at a different University and just figure out what was wrong with me I did my entire family's genetics through 23 and me to see if there was any type of pattern which showed genetics for celiac disease and so I cut out gluten and my health improved a little like the tiniest bit and enough that I was like okay maybe I'll go on an Elimination Diet and I was encouraged by my mom who kept dragging me to like over the years I was brought to I don't know how many like witch doctors and naturopaths just like anything being like here and that head initially backfired because you go to a naturopath they sell you like $200 of supplements none of the supplements do anything and I was like these you know quacks are just taking advantage of sick people to push supplement on them and that's terrible to take advantage of sick people so I was really averse to that but she did drag me to a natural path when I was 23 who suggested an Elimination Diet and I kind of looked at it and said this doesn't make any sense and came up with my own just to give it a shot and that diet helped a whole bunch of my symptoms in like a month it was crazy but before we get into that I'm sure you know as well as us that there is really only one foolproof way of becoming a millionaire by the end of your life and that is investing I completely agree with that I've been investing since I was a teenager and it's given me not only a lot of confidence I love it it's so much fun for me to see what's going on in the markets every day I love seeing my money grow over time it's something that like every day I wake up and I check the market to see how I'm doing and one of the ways I do that believe it or not is by reading our sponsor Yahoo finance Yahoo finance is a completely free website and I kid you not I was reading this website when I was like 13 years old just getting involved in the markets you can literally just type in a ticker symbol and it gives you basically all of the data that you would ever need to know if you're wanting to invest in a company and this is just a really cool full circle moment for me because I've been reading Yahoo finance for a very long time so to see them come and sponsor one of our episodes is so unbelievably cool and if you want to support that the link to them is down below in the description I highly recommend checking them out it's totally free I come up with some of my video Topics by the way from Yahoo finance highly recommended so with that said thank you so much Yahoo finance for sponsoring this episode and thank you guys so much for checking it out and back to the episode was it just like a natural allergy to a bunch of different foods or do you think this diet will work for anybody I call it the lion diet I named that a number of years ago not sure how I feel about it but that's what it's called and it seems like people with severe chronic illness if they limit their food to just beef even if it's for like 6 weeks and then reintroduce other Foods then they can monitor flare ups and it seems to work and I know how that like crazy that sounds but there's more evidence and a bunch of it's coming out of Harvard now for ketogenic diets treating cancer or treating autoimmunity or treating psychiatric diseases that's a big one there's a doctor named Chris Palmer that is is saying hey medications don't really work like psychiatric illnesses are a metabolic disease and you can treat that with a ketogenic diet technically the diet I'm on is a ketogenic diet it's just plant-free it seems counterintuitive to like everything that I've learned about nutrition you know growing up like through the public school system and everything and I'm not a nutritionist obviously it seems questionable do you think that this exact diet this lion diet where you're just eating straight beef and salt could work on everybody or do do different people respond differently to to varying foods from what I've seen it works overwhelmingly well for people with autoimmune or psychiatric illnesses or obesity problems I don't know about the other illnesses so no I I do think it works for that I don't think the average person needs to be as restrictive as me like I was really really sick I've seen a lot of people who have arthritis that go on a ketogenic diet or go on a Paleo diet and cut out processed foods and cut out Dairy and cut out some inflammatory foods and and they see their symptoms lower but if people have like three different autoimmune disorders and can't get out of bed and they've been treated through the medical system and it's not working then this is what I generally suggest people try I wonder how much of that is purely because you're not eating a lot of the crap that's out there that's what I thought I mean people say that but what I started on so in 2017 The Elimination Diet I did wasn't just meat like it took a while to get that cuz I was also unaware that you could survive only on meat because nobody knew that so did like lots of greens certain fruit I was eating like apples and pears and things meat in general fish and it was more like I cut out all the soy Dairy any processed foods grains um I cut out eggs too cuz I know a lot of people have egg allergies nuts like I cut out everything you could be allergic to and just kept like like I said greens and certain vegetables fruit and meat and that almost got rid of all my symptoms I got off of all my medication on that diet so I wasn't just on a meat diet I was on like more of a paleo diet and that worked as soon as I got pregnant my arthritis came back even though I didn't change what I was eating and I was like okay what's like what is this about and then I also moved into a house that I know that had black mold in the basement and I think that flared my autoimmune symptoms at that point I couldn't get them under control again and I was like there's no way I'm going back on medication um I'm just going to keep removing Foods until it goes away cuz it went away and it it was gone for like a year and a half half and then I got pregnant and came back and I was like it's got to be diet related so then I just slowly cut down I cut out all the fruit which was awful and then I just slowly cut down the vegetables and it and then I came across a Joe Rogan episode with Shawn Baker and he was like yeah I only eat steak and I was like okay so people can only eat steak steak that's great I'll do that for a while so I switched to doing that for a while and then every time I tried to reintroduce something I'd have these inflammatory reactions um which was like depression mostly that was the worst symptom but also like arthritis and my skin breaking out but it was mostly the depression that was awful and so I just stopped reintroducing things so I'm really curious do you think there's a chance that it's a bit of a placebo effect no and why do you say that I had my hip and Ankle replaced from arthritis there's nothing that can Placebo that kind of arthritis away I do get that question it's a fair question if there's a place effect that's that strong I'm all for it I think what's happened is the environment we live in now compared to how we lived 150 years ago is full of like different exposures to different things where like molds the food we eat is crazy right now like the amount of chemicals and the food we eat in America is insane compared to the rest of the world the cancer warnings everywhere you go it's like oh this is known to uh you know cause cancer and this like we're eating at like a restaurant yeah yeah exactly people's bodies are completely overwhelmed which is why why it's like one in five people have an autoimmune disorder I can't remember what the psychiatric illness numbers are and they've skyrocketed since Co people are getting sicker and like fatter and more miserable and I think it's environmental it's what you're eating it's what you're exposing yourself to because it wasn't here you know 150 years ago like this so this is something I've tried recently so January 1st I wanted to lose a little weight and I wanted to get in better shape so I tried the uh I think the proper term is like the caveman diet you're just supposed to eat like Whole Foods nothing fried nothing process no alcohol and I did that and the first week I remember how difficult it was to find foods that were not processed like just purely Natural Foods is really difficult and so I had to go out of my way to find these foods and then consciously eat them and then every restaurant I'd go to I'd look at the foods and i' be like I can't eat this I can't eat this and it was like 80% of the menu you can't even touch so then I'm eating like fish vegetables steaks chicken stuff like this in the first month I think I was down like 5 lbs yeah is just from doing that like I'm not doing any extra exercise it's purely just from eating well and so I stuck with it and so even now like I I try to stick with it but it is difficult so in 2017 I basically did that and it got rid of almost all my symptoms like my chronic fatigue I was taking Aderall for chronic fatigue cuz I was sleeping 18 hours a day and I was exhausted most of the time I got off of Aderall I got off of the anti-depressant I got off of the immune suppressant I got off of the antihistamines I was taking every day I was taking an antibiotic uh for this w asash that just wouldn't go away I got off of everything on that kind of diet and yeah I went from like being able to eat out with my friends to being like I guess I'll just come join you but I'm not going to eat anything unless you're going to cook at home it's hard luckily in like places like Austin and la like it's becoming more popular to not cook with seed oils and to have gluten-free items and it's it's growing in popularity compared to 2016 there was nothing it was miserable so I get it I get the pain but if you order just steak I mean that a lot of restaurants up what are the downsides though to such a diet like are you worried about cholesterol saturated fats when you have an autoimmune disorder and it goes away you don't really care what the repercussions are like people are like well you were worried you're going to die earlier like not really because I was dying and now I'm not so I don't really care what anything says but because there are people following me I've done research into like cholesterol and saturated fats and all these concerns all of the studies done on red meat were epidemiological studies that don't actually conclusively prove anything unhealthy about red meat so if you actually look at the science Max lugae is actually really good he kind of talks like about a diet like you're doing if you're just eating meat your cholesterol does go up but cholesterol the research done around cholesterol causing heart disease and that is iffy at best too if you look into it so there's a doctor named Ken Barry that delves into that I'm not the best person to talk to about the scientific evidence of only eating meat I'm most tell people hey I was like dying with like four different things and on all these medications and now I'm healthy I've been doing this diet for like six and a half years yeah do you could do it for six weeks and see how you feel and then when's the last time you cheated on the diet I don't cheat um like ever so I I've never cheated on the diet I've tried to reintroduce Foods very carefully the first time was in 20120 so that was 3 years into the diet and I literally didn't cheat until then I did try to reintroduce early on cuz I was like I'm only going to do this for 6 weeks and then I'm going to try like olives or something and the reactions were so bad that I just stopped in 2020 I tried to start eating fruit again like berries like things people should be able to eat and it wasn't terrible but I got sicker over a period of like 2 or 3 weeks um so I cut those out again and then recently I had a baby I had a baby 4 months ago I had a meat aversion the entire pregnancy which can happen if you're pregnant where like meat makes you it doesn't taste good and kind of makes you nauseous OPP of a craving horrible and I was like there's no way this is going to happen to me cuz all I eat is meat and I had it the entire pregnancy and it was horrible I know it's funny but it's like so I heard that's your body telling you that you need certain nutrients and that's what like that's what the Cravings are for like if people are craving ice cream it's like your body's craving whatever that is for the child I I I don't think so because people get Cravings like ice cream and you're you don't need ice cream for the baby and most pregnant women gain like massive amounts of weight during pregnancy which isn't healthy either because then you give birth to babies that weigh too much in the '90s they used to say if you have cravings eat that that's what your body needs but they don't say that anymore they're like eat a healthy diet they don't say eat only meat that would just horrify most doctors like horrify um I didn't have a obstetrician I had a midwife and she was chill why do you think the diet is so controversal because I was doing research I saw a Harvard study that said people in the study who ate the most red meat tend ended to die younger and die more often from cardiovascular disease and cancer others seem to think there's no problem with it at all so why is it such a controversial thing well there were a bunch of studies that came out like decades ago showing that red meat was bad and saturated fat was bad and like I said those were all epidemiological studies where they look at like large groups of people and they kind of hand out pieces of paper you can fill out saying what your diet is and most people who eat red meat eat them with other things a lot of it's process so yeah like yeah I eat red meat three times a day I'm going to McDonald's and I'm having burgers and fries and a milkshake and then they go okay it's the burger it's like it's not the burger it's the bun and the fries and the milkshake so most of the studies on meat are done from that and then they've also recently decided saturated fat isn't a problem but that's new research in the last like 5 years but then how much are you going to trust the new research it seems like the research is always changing and the research that everyone understood to be fact 20 years ago everyone's like well I actually don't really know about that there also influen from different like food corporations in America if you want to get conspiratorial so there was like the seed oils they're like stop eating butter it's not good for you you should eat canola oil and that was all not true that was to sell canola oil or there was sugar sugar was like a weight loss drug in the 50s Sugar's not a weight loss drug yeah like eat sugar it'll satisfy your sweet tooth there are ads from the 50s that so show sugar for weight milk was similar the whole milk industry cigarettes even they're like cigarettes you know for diet suppression and stuff part of the reason I don't delve into the like the science is because one I don't really care because of how I feel and two because most scientific studies period have some sort of agenda behind them and you can't trust them yeah or they're just not or they're done sloppily like the epidemiological studies on meat how many problems in life do you think are diet related it depends if you're depressed like most of your problems then are probably diet related cuz if you're depressed then that changes your outlock outlook on life and it can impact your work and your relationships like being being severely depressed and having a relationship is very difficult is you misinterpret what the other person saying you're like a little bit paranoid you're hurt really easily you're volatile like that impacts your relationships massively so i' say anybody suffering from any type of chronic illness to try and figure it out themselves and look into diet and at minimum remove the processed foods and do something like you're doing because that's usually enough to be like oh I lost weight like when I did that I was probably more restrictive than you but it was pretty much like Whole Foods I went down three pant sizes in a month but I only lost 5 lbs and so a lot of my like I was bloated and I didn't even know it that went down and I was just like Diet can have that kind of impact cuz I had always thought that exercise makes you lose weight so I was at the gym all the time trying to get abs and then I went on a diet and like I had ABS I was like Oh I thought it didn't matter what you ate as long as you didn't eat too much but that wasn't the case for me that's like what people used to say they're still kind of saying it now it is interesting I feel like whenever you go to the doctors with a certain problem like the last thing that's ever discussed is diet and I feel like intuitively not a nutritionist intuitively it makes the most sense it's like the the oil that you're putting in your car essentially it's like you want to put in the good stuff to make sure it runs efficiently doctors don't get very much nutrition like nutrition education in med school and what they are taught is taught from the government basically which is like the food pyramid which has been created by these companies that were trying to push seed oils and like wheat that's what I was taught as the whole food pyramid as a t that's what I was taught too I mean I had bread at every meal I used to have did you guys have sugar and cinnamon on toast I used to have sugar and cinnamon on toast no no but I have plenty of like cinnamon toast crunch like I grew up thinking like my breakfast I'm getting my Dair my you know what I remember begging my mom for uh Reese's Puffs remember those Reese's puff cereal and I thought it was so cool because the commercials made it seem like these kids are like the cool kids song Reese's Puffs Reese's Puffs Reeses Puff the kids who ate Reese's I thought they were like the coolest people and I was like it's part of a well balanced breakfast like they say it in the commercial and so but looking back it's a dessert like there's no way that's healthy a child to even Lunchables had a thing recently where I think it was like 70 or 80% of like your entire day sodium were in one little tiny meal for Lunchables or Capri Sun which which is loaded with sugar but I'd see those Silver Surfers that would go and like turn into like the silver blob of liquid and like go through walls and stuff that I thought that was so cool so I'm like I got to have a capri do you have dunkaroos or is that a Canadian thing no heard that dun like chocolate like graham cracker thing that you would get he's like Canadian so but there's no way that's healthy there's healthy options now though like my kid isn't on obviously she's not on the diet I'm on but she eats more like a paleo diet so like not processed foods and things and the little snacks you can get now you can get healthy snacks so people who aren't looking into this it's it's silly you like you can still go the dunkaroo I don't know if they make dunkaroos anymore they were good but like you can still go that route but it's like why do that when you have the healthy version that still comes in a little snack box like it's made with real real fruit it doesn't have added sugars stuff like that there's options now so why do you think people gravitate towards the unhealthy Foods they're super addictive try getting off of them literally try cutting out sugar you know there's studies showing like sugar versus cocaine in in rats and rats will take the sugar over the cocaine and people are like that's an insane thing to say it can't be more addictive than cocaine try getting off of sugar seriously getting off of it the Cravings are crazy like when I cut out processed foods I was having dreams about angel food cake like dreams about it dreams about brownies it was really hard and I have experienced getting off of things cuz with the hip and ankle replacement I was put on oxycontin for a year which like saved me cuz I was in I was like suicidal with pain it was insane and the Canadian healthcare system is so bad that it took a really long time to get the surgeries but I had to get off of oxycotton and getting off of oxycotton was easier than cutting out sugar cutting out Dairy was really hard too and what's the reason for that is it purely Cravings or is because sugar is in everything no it's Cravings it's definitely Cravings yeah and I've noticed like in my own personal life if I I've been buying these like chocolate milk cartons Fair life which are like macro pretty decent if you know you know so I'll drink one one day and the next day come around like 5:00 p.m. same time the day before I was drinking it I'll be like I kind of need some like sugar in my system right now I go right back to it the same thing goes like you have ice cream one day you want it so much more the next day than you did some random day it's hard you can you can switch these things out too but even so at the beginning when I was on more of a Paleo dead I'd be like I cut out Dairy because Dairy can be hard for people with autoimmune disorders it was really bad for my arthritis and I switched over to like coconut ice cream and there are a lot of different coconut ice cream products and they taste good but they don't give you the like the high that you're looking for and so you still get the cravings and everything Dairy causes insane Cravings too it was Dairy and soy and sugar that were the hardest to get off of do you ever crave steak nowadays not really I get like hungry and then it's steak so it tastes amazing so steak still tastes good yeah but for that first initial period of getting onto the diet you get it it doesn't taste so oh you know what's it reminds me of the uh I did the Starbucks diet and this is for a video and it was only Starbucks for one week straight day one was fine day two I slept in and I never sleep in I slept in day two and I posted a video late which again I never post late day three came around I started physically feel sick I wanted to start throwing up because I felt so bad like even the idea of eating a Starbucks anything was just bad and then Jack said it can't be that bad and I said let's try it too see if you just make it the next 4 days and Jack did it how did you feel on like day three it was the same so like day one it's exciting cuz like obviously Starbucks sandwiches like they just taste good but then it's weird like I didn't want to be like a wimp and complain about it cuz I I try not to complain about things but like day two and three I felt like dizzy a little bit a little bit nauseous like weirdly not hungry you know and I felt like I was like kind of forcing myself to eat for lunch when I usually have a massive appetite so it's weird and then after a while I will say near the end the tail end of it it wasn't so bad kind of get used to I feel like it's the same thing in that super siis me documentary oh that was brutal apparently a lot of that was fabricated oh yeah he had uh longing it was a longstanding alcohol addiction I think before then and partly during that might have skewed some other results so when the doctors were saying oh this looks like a person who has been drinking for decades oh he he conveniently left that out yeah so you know not to discredit I'm sure some of it's valid but I'm sure there's also some Nuance to that that wasn't discussed in the movie oh that's funny I didn't know that makes for a great story though it was a good that was a good documentary yeah I forgot about that one of the things that happens when you change your diet dramatically in any direction is your microbiome has to adapt so that's like all the gut bacteria in your gut and they survive off of your like normal diet and they can produce Cravings so if you cut out a bunch of food which you guys would have had to cut out certain groups of food when you're only eating Starbucks food it's giving you cravings for those foods and it takes a while for those microbes to die off and then the Cravings go away although really quick before we go into that if you run your own online business there's no better sound than hearing and if you want to hear a lot more then our sponsor Shopify is there to help for those una aware Shopify is the global e-commerce platform that's already helped transform millions of businesses worldwide for example Shopify is an endless list of Integrations thirdparty apps and flexible templates to help customize your online store exactly the way you want to and honestly what really set Shopify apart from their competitors is their ability to turn browsers into buyers with the internet's best converting checkout that's 36% better on average than other leading e-commerce platforms and fun fact Shopify actually Powers 10% of all e-commerce in the United States supporting Brands like Alberts rothy's and Brooklyn and in over 175 countries in fact if you didn't know my coffee company bankroll coffee.com is run exclusively through Shopify and when we first setting up the website there was no one else I wanted to work with other than Shopify because they're just that good so guys you can literally change your life with just $1 when you sign up for shopify's $1 per month trial period at shopify.com all lowercase again that's shopify.com shopify.com with the link Down Below in the description thank you so much and now let's get back to the episode so what do you think is the ideal diet for the average person I would cut out all processed foods and I would question Dairy is that can give people like fatigue and brain fog and and skin problems I'd question Dairy for like the healthy person without an autoimmune disorder or something I would go on like a Paleo a paleo diet and cut out all the C processed foods yeah I think processed foods are like the one that I can say fairly confidently or just bad yeah and I and I would also like skew heavily toward meat so I'd eat meat at every meal include all the other Whole Foods that people are meant to eat like I think the only reason that I'm stuck on this diet is because I was so damaged from like a number of different things my house when I grew up when I got really sick had black mold in the basement again which I think contributed to a lot of the autoimmune problems and then I was on antibiotics a lot as a kid and I was like born through a C-section which can mess up your microbiome like I think there were a lot of contributing factors which is why I'm like allergic to everything but if you're a healthy person already I'd look up Max lug air he has a book he talks about mostly cutting out processed foods lowering or eliminating grains and eating you know healthy meat how do you prepare your steaks I use an air fryer most of the time so I eat New York strip and cook it from Frozen covered in salt an air fry frozen that's the air fryer hack do you guys have an air fryer yeah okay okay so you've got you've got that on you get a better crust because it doesn't cook all the way through yeah flip it you do if it's like this thick you cook it for like nine minutes per side yeah and it gets crusty on the other side what cut is it New York okay I'll give it a shot it'll change your life you just take it out of the freezer put it in Frozen it's you don't have to thaw it if you thaw it overcooks in the middle that's interesting I've never heard of that before it'll change your life it's such a hack too even if you don't want to be healthier it's so much easier yeah now what about doing the opposite and going vegan what are your thoughts veganism I don't think veganism is sustainable long term at all I think it causes muscle loss for and I don't think that you can add in different supplements to get everything you could be getting from meat so I'm not a fan of veganism I've seen a lot of people who are vegan and those are people who are open enough to try crazy diets too like because if you go on vegan it's very restrictive and so a lot of those people will be like well it's not working and they'll hop on this like Lion diet which is also crazy so there's a lot of like crossover from vegans I think initially people can feel better because they're removing Dairy which is causing a problem for them and a lot of processed foods so if you're just eating more Whole Foods you're going to feel better if you go the vegan route where you're just eating processed vegan foods I think that's like the worst thing you could do now I'm curious going into that you did a tedex talk and they decided not to post it yeah what happened on that did they communicate to you ahead of time and why did they decide not to show your speech they said it violated Community guidelines but they wouldn't tell me which guidelines it violated and I was really careful when I was organizing that and it was just a talk about this is what happened to me it would be great if we could get some studies out of this because there's literally thousands of people on this diet who have gone from serious like bedridden autoimmunity or psychiatric illnesses to asymptomatic that is impossible do some studies that's what I said in the in the speech and they just didn't put it up but tedx has been completely and Ted has been completely infiltrated with like political and vegan propaganda if you look at what they're posting and what they're not posting so you think they had an agenda and yeah they were pushed from one side to say we can't publish this this is bad for our look this goes against what we kind of but what was the agenda like are they just anti- meat eating or something I I don't even know like who controls these or I have no idea but if you go to Ted AER or Ted and you look at the videos that pop up there's a whole bunch of vegan videos there aren't any like meat is healthy videos which is coming back like it's not just me saying this the studies are reversing if you want to trust the studies there's studies coming I know Harvard wrote that thing that was like anti- meat but there's a doctor at Harvard Chris Palmer that's saying a ketogenic diet is how you treat like schizophrenia and bipolar and severe mental illness so there are studies being done now on ketogenic diets which is like it's close enough basically I don't know who who decides these things how often is the media trying to silence what you have to say I have no idea like it's hard to tell a couple months ago views went down on my dad's channel like dramatically like 80% fewer and on my channel we think what had happened because we got somebody who used to work at YouTube to look into it that AI had picked up certain keywords and just Auto supressed it which which happens on YouTube all the time it's not like a person being like no it's AI picking up keywords and saying no and so that kind of thing happen in 2018 there were a bunch of negative articles about me being like oh she only eats meat and doctors being like well this isn't going to last very long and now that it's been 6 and A2 years and I'm fine there are far fewer articles being like well she's about to die it's like oh okay she hasn't so it's not that interesting anymore why is it that people think that you and your dad are so controversial I think they thought dad was paranoid at the beginning because this bill c16 thing he was like you're going to misgender someone and they'll throw you in prison and everyone was like you're crazy and then that started happening like four years later so that actually happened I'm not sure if it happened in Canada I know it happened in Scotland or Ireland where somebody misgendered something someone and they ended up in prison sentence like I don't know I'd have to look into it but it was prison for misgendering like it was on purpose it wasn't an accident it was like setting it was like refusing refusing to use pronouns more than anything else and he was saying well people are going to be ridiculous with their pronouns and then they're going to require to you use them and you can't change English like that and people were like well he's overreacting and even at the time I was like I'm still behind what he's saying but it might be he's like really worked up about this and maybe it's an overreaction and then lo and behold like 3 or 4 years later there's all this crazy trans stuff I didn't think it would get to like where it's at now so I can understand why that was controversial and then to throw that on top there was like oh the meat diet only eating meat and then it's obvious why that was controversial because nobody won nobody knew you could do that and two we've been saying hey it seems to put you know chronic illness into remission which is a crazy thing to put with only eating meat I think it's less controversial now that it's been a period of time and I think there are more people saying what dad's been saying there's like fewer maybe it's not less controversial but there are more controversial things to talk about so like it's the same level but it's now like the controversy's gone like up here that's actually that's actually probably it people are like this is crazy and then Co hit and shut down the entire world and they're like oh this is crazy yeah that's probably that's how that's what I feel like is is going on deep down it's just purely that so how does all that controversy change the dynamic with your family all we were talking about was like political stuff and controversy and like bad things and it was really depressing and it took about 5 years for us to be like oh wait no maybe when a negative article comes out people don't trust it and actually agree with you and that helps so then we kind of like changed our perspective on oh negative articles are actually maybe positive like there's no what is it bad bad publicity which it it turns out is is true it's interesting for me to hear that because like kind of is an outsider to that where I see some of the articles but I don't give them much attention I would just think for you and your entire family that it wouldn't even bother you from my perspective it's like oh yeah it's another one of those it keeps scrolling it wouldn't even affect them but but the tear that it like does have an effect is it's it's I mean it makes sense but you don't think about that I know i' I'd also seen like tabloids on celebrities where it's like oh so and so is now like hooking up with this other person or they're getting a divorce and things and I'd heard celebrities be like that's stressful but you look at it and you're just like well nobody believes that you don't get it until it happens to you you and then you think it affects your livelihood or your friends or something and then it's really stressful it's like stressful to have a spotlight put on you in a negative way like that and probably in a positive way too I mean you see like kid celebrities grow up and get entirely screwed up even though they're not necessarily controversial so I think he just it's been a crazy experience cuz I went from being like normal university kid going out and drinking I had lots of friends I was like doing fairly well until I couldn't get to class and then I was not doing well but I went from being totally normal not having very much money at all to to understanding what it's like to like have money and have a level of notoriety and it's definitely changes your perspective it's weird how much out there does the mainstream media get wrong about you or about your family I mean everything from 2021 on backwards so like 2017 to 2021 like none of that was true the worst one was the Sunday Times in the UK and it was after my dad was extremely ill my family was like distraught and we were trying to explain why he'd been gone and I was like paranoid enough about it that I recorded the audio of the interview and that was like massive hitpiece they called me um the woman called me a pouting Barbie and basically wrote in that I was controlling and manipulating my dad oh and that he had schizophrenia which he like didn't and never has it was really bad fortunately it was so negative that the comments were like this is ridiculous but it was really upsetting cuz it was after like a period where my mom was extremely ill my dad was extremely ill and we were just starting to be like okay me let's try to get like life back up again and then it was like Wham hitpiece from the Sunday Times I was like this is really upsetting I feel like people don't even read that stuff anymore though to be completely honest somebody does somebody read somebody does but I feel like most people are like on Twitter or maybe like the mainstream media but I feel like that's also starting to decline this this was 2021 it had already declined by then it's declined way more by now in I feel like in 2018 though when negative articles were coming up people were still reading them MH but now since podcasting kind of took over and Twitter and social media yeah they're dead that's why they all charge like a dollar to read these articles and nobody pays them I was how many people are actually reading your articles if you charge them a dollar nobody it's funny every website that I used to read for free and and read all the time every single one of them is like do our trial now for only a dollar for the next but it makes me not want to pay for itll I know and it's because they need money because they're dying because nobody's reading their content what's what's the one that's loaded with ads I think it's like Daily Mail it's like one of those things but there's like ads that are on on top of ads like there's an ad but then there's a popup on top of the ad we got to figure out how we can do that on the podcast we can use that as a monation YouTube got rid of the banner ads I think uh pop-up lockers or something were too and I think it distracted those were annoying I Got YouTube premium as soon as they put ads on though the best money I've ever SP premium is amazing but yeah it's gotten really bad so I could see those going out of business I don't know who keeps them going they are I mean a lot of them have like some billionaire behind them I'm not I'm not even joking I know that so so so some of them are getting donations but we have like a couple of friendlier news sources and I've asked them for their numbers when Dad will write a guest blog or something like that and I've asked for their numbers and even their numbers compared to what you get on social media it's like nothing and these are these are huge names so I don't think they're going to last they have to seriously pivot I don't even know how they could pivot to tell you the truth so why do the billionaires support these media Publications like what is the incentive for them try to control narrative yeah but who's reading them I mean if they have billions of dollars it must be pretty smart they' be like okay well apparently if I like buy out a Twitter account instead of like you know Daily Loud or whatever you said like daily so many they're all the same I don't I don't know like if they buy out that it's just not going to get the same Roi as like it's old it's old it's like purchased these media companies in the '90s and then they still have credibility or something yeah and then they they've just lost it yeah yeah I don't think that would be the new way of controlling the narrative yeah I think our version is going to be let's like buy a social media accounts let's buy a YouTube channel and then we can make videos or pay people to make videos on certain topics would be that put money behind some sort of message and and encourage like smaller influencers to make videos on certain topics and just disseminated everywhere so pardon me I I wonder how common that is because some of the videos I'm I'm just kid if you paid certain channels be like hey make a video on this make a video on this you could easily with a good video shift The Narrative yeah yeah I'm curious how common that is or if it's happening right now and to what degree I mean I'm I'm so far into conspiratory land that I'd love to go that it's not even funny like since I can survive only eating meat and all my health problems are gone nothing is real so what are some of your beliefs when it comes to conspiracy theories I 100% believe that there's money behind certain messaging that's put out like what like messaging on Twitter like Israeli Palestine war came out I think that one side is probably being funded and I think there's funding behind universities now teaching students certain ways of thinking because universities have gone crazy but but let's let's start with the UN what's what's the purpose behind that and why would someone want to fund a certain agenda like what's in it for them I think most billionaires get into this and think that they're doing something good for the world like even the fight against meat like meat is bad eat these meat Alternatives like I don't think that came from an evil Place nobody evil thinks they're doing evil it comes from like I've I'm billionaire I've worked my entire life to amass this amount of money I want to help the world for good this is what I believe is good and I'll pay people to make it happen and it's just like mistake yeah but it sounds like kind of like an ego thing too to think that you know what is right for everyone else oh that's for sure but I mean I guess when you get to the point of having billions of dollars you're in such a small percentage of the population that you're like one part of you's got to be like I am more talented and I am smarter and I am better and these plebs can't think for themselves obviously look at Society I could see that I mean think of Dave Ramsey's approach of anti-red card if he were worth 10 billion imagine him sinking a billion of that into anti-red card but because it's work for him it's work for his people so if he's trying to help people that could be a way that he would do that I remember also um I was approached by a diamond company it was uh I I it I don't remember the specific name but they worked in the diamond industry and they wanted me to make a video about how natural diamonds are actually better for the environment and they're better for the consumer than lab grown and they were offering a pretty crazy amount of money for me to make one video talking about natural diamonds Investments I said no because I start but it it sent me down this weird Rabbit Hole of looking up lab grown diamonds versus natural diamonds and both the arguments I didn't realize that there was so much that went into lab grown diamonds in terms of marketing of how they're cheaper and how they they don't uh aren't involved in the slave trade and they're not blood diamonds and the more I got into it the more I realized that a lot of what they said is outdated and that just the natural diamonds are now there's a lot of them that are sourced in such a way that are very ethical and that help support these communities but the lab grown Diamond that whole side wants you to believe that natural diamonds are bad and like all but they both sides are really just like thrown their arguments at the media of like one doesn't hold their value one's bad for the environment one takes advantage of people one doesn't it's very interesting but it's all just like two industries throw money at each other to try to like one up each other was that the sneaky dime aad slowly working with them no I couldn't do it I could it's good idea not to well my thing is that like just from my perspective I'm known as like The Frugal person and just I know myself if I saw a lab grown diamond and a natural diamond I'd go with lapg ground purely because of the cost and I'd probably buy that lap ground Diamond pre-owned so I can't get behind a message of like you know getting a natural diamond even though it holds its value when I look at the same thing for a 10th the cost so just like from a principal standpoint I couldn't even do that there's no amount of money that would that would make me and and plus people would know they'd be like Graham come on a natural diamond you you get a lap ground well it gets worse than that too like if we want to delve into diamonds is it turns out just the fact that diamonds are valuable is questional questionable I don't know if you guys knew about that but for from a stone perspective and how rare they are they're not one of the rarer Stones so the whole Diamond industry I think it was made up in the 30s and it was like diamond are girl's best friend that was a huge marketing thing that came out so the entire Diamond industry regardless of natural verses it's the same with the three Monon salary yeah yeah purely marke I forget what the company was starts with the D what is it three Monon Sal was it De Beers or something the beers that was it they came out with this marketing Ploy that said that the diamond ring that you propose with should be equivalent to 3 months of your salary there's nothing else behind it other than a marketing campaign to get you to spend more money on the diamond and if you if you didn't spend that 3 months she must not be worth it you must not love her was that based off of like research and data or something like happiest of marriages are based off three month salary no it was purely a marketing thing and now when I hear anyone say like oh I'm going to get this diamond ring three month Sal I just like you fell into a marketing Ploy it's like can you not think for yourself it's true is it not can can they not think outside the box and think for themselves and do something different I think that's that's super Fair a lot of people though you can't deny that they are affected by their environment and you can't ask everybody to be hyper cognizant of every single decision I think they should I think they should question it I think they should think why am I doing this where did I come up with this belief where is this expectation set when you look into a lot of these things it makes no sense what are some of the other conspiracies that you have or are beliefs that maybe people aren't talking enough about I don't think they're conspiracy theories because I think they're true but I don't have any like faith in the government as a body that can like organize people properly and I think most people have seen that Co like that wasn't handled properly and I don't think the medical system knows what they're doing in terms of chronic illness if you want to go get a broken arm fixed go to the hospital did you know the third leading cause of death is medical error you know that that's the third leading cause of death is medical error nobody talks about that it's dangerous doctors are dangerous that's what I think unless you're going to a surgeon that's different so I guess that's a conspiracy theory but the data why do you think it's so high I mean my thinking is that human bodies are very complex every person is going to be slightly different and a doctor could only do so much to save people like that's that's what I would like to believe at least I I don't think so I think the pharmaceutical industry's got involved in in medical care so a lot of the courses or or lectures that are done to doctors are taught by pharmaceutical Representatives so oh you have depression and then you get like told or paid to give out certain anti-depressants to treat depression and then you're not taught about nutrition and what you are taught is taught by the government who's taught by this food pyramid that was made by companies trying to sell their products like the entire thing is just a lie so why is medical death medical error the third leading cause of death because they're using Pharmaceuticals to treat diseases that can't be treated with Pharmaceuticals but it's like a bandage is what you're saying and then they're financially incentivized to keep bad bandage like even when I went I was on embil and methat trxade those were the like drug names for arthritis and initially when I went on them they like worked so I had arthritis in like 30ish joints it was everywhere except for my spine it was in my like Jaw it was everywhere and it worked initially and I went from being like basically wheelchair bound to running around like a little kid when I was in grade three by the time I was 17 I needed my hip and Ankle replaced so it didn't stop the progression of the arthritis but it like masked the symptoms for a while um that's what these medications can do anti-depressants getting off of anti-depressants was way harder than getting off of Oxycontin that's like new people don't know about anti-depressant withdrawal psyched withdrawal is horrible it's horrible it exacerbates your psychiatric symptoms that's what it feels like so when I got off of it I was like I felt like I could feel my depression lift when I was on the anti-depressants because you can still you still feel the depression on the anti-depressants it's just like masked by this kind of like heavy fatigue warm cuddly feeling but it like underneath you can feel the like pain of depression and I got off of that and I had 2 years of anti-depressant withdrawal which was uh like one of the worst experiences of my life with um just insomnia like crawling feelings all over my body I had no idea that anti-depressants caused withdrawal no idea I knew that if you were on painkillers for a while like with the hip and ankle replacement that causes withdrawal but I didn't know these other medications cause withdrawal so I I just I don't have any faith in the medical system anymore most doctors don't know they cause withdrawal and most people they'll go into withdrawal when they stop taking them the doctor will say that's your psychiatric illness and then they'll go back on them so this is coming out now too but like the medical system probably needs 10 or 15 years to catch up with like diet and which new medications cause withdrawal things like that have you noticed there be any studies about like withdrawal from adol I haven't read studies um I know a lot of people who've gone the diet route and gotten off of Aderall so this is just like anecdotal I haven't read studies and it seems like you get more tired and your like thoughts can be more scattered and it's mostly fatigue it doesn't seem like psychiatric medications where it can cause things like athesia or just like un being uncomfortable in your own skin or having lights hurt you or noises hurt you like that's what anti-depressant withdrawal do and with painkillers it's more like a really really really severe hangover like if you drink way too much you get like you sweat you get nauseous your pain receptors can be heightened so you feel like you're in pain that's kind of what um like opiate withdrawal is like I don't know about Aderall adol seems to have less withdrawal but I've heard about Aderall withdrawal too any medication you take daily your brain kind of adjusts to it and if you pull it out suddenly your brain has to shift back and you should be taught that before you take a medication every day so are doctors financially incentivized oh 100% yeah do they get paid more if they recommend because I don't know exactly how the pharmaceutical industry works I know that you have these reps that go in and they're the reps are paid by like if they could get this doctor to prescribe this medication but does the doctor get a kickback yeah doctors are paid as well how is that allowed if like if I recommend this one medication over another like I'll make more money with this the the regulations in America are crazy like compared to Europe for example where you're not allowed to do that like there are Place There Are Places most places that's banned but not in America in America too you you can have ads on television for drugs like you're not allowed to do that in Canada or you can have Billboards for drugs and things that's not legal in most countries yeah what was the the commercial I used to see a lot as a kid I think it was a Zoloft right with the little bubble thing and it was looking so cute and extremely impossible to get off of it's extremely hard to get off of so what do you think is the difference then between depression and someone who's just really really sad and how can you tell which one you are and like treat them appropriately I think it would be tricky to tell but it depends on like the level of depression like I think most of America has some level of anxiety that I think could be alleviated if they were eating healthier but if you're going through something like a divorce or or your relationship is screwed up or one of your family members died or even your dog died or something like that and you're feeling sad then you have to attribute that to what's going on if your life is pretty good and you don't have any reason to feel sad that's probably depression so I remember my my dad said he'd he'd be in therapy and someone would come in and they'd be depressed and he'd be like well how many friends do you have like do you see them frequently are you in a relationship how's your work like he'd check off aspects of their life and if everything was going well and they still felt like this then it was probably the depression how often is it though just to have an off day because there's some days where objectively I could look and say everything is fantastic but I just wake up that morning I'm just just not feeling myself I just don't feel like doing anything it's just an off day I think that like that's pretty normal I don't have very many off days where my mood is hit dramatically where I'm like this is an off day on this diet but I mean I still have off days so that's normal it's like depression is when every day is difficult even if it shouldn't be difficult and everything is hard and you know it feels like you're walking through molasses like or you go into a social situation and you're thinking about what you're going to say you're not able to communicate with people and you're awkward like you can get to a serious level of mental illness yeah so for someone just feeling sad like going to the checklist of like Diet exercise friends what do you think is the easiest thing for people to begin to solve I would start with diet and I would cut out grains and processed food and then see how you feel that's like the easiest step and even if you're doing that like replace them with other Foods you like so look up like paleo alternative to pizza and eat that instead of the normal Pizza you're eating like I've got on my Amazon I have a list of like healthy swaps for lazy people which just just like instead of eating like complete garbage eat the healthy version of that garbage it's still not the greatest health food but at least you're cutting out some of the like toxic stuff that Americans are eating now people can start pretty slow and if you're really depressed you people kind of need to start slow like being like only eat meat and they're like I can't even get out of bed there's an example of that it's a bit processed but uh there's instead of eating like potato chips they had these like chicken chips and it's like it's chicken meat and it tastes the same it's a weird mental thing to like eat a chip and then you're eating chicken but it tastes the same it's those things there's also like there's sweet potato chips now that are cooked with like olive oil or avocado oil you could like swap to that it's not quite as like satiating the chicken things I've had like beef chips CU they make there's a bunch of products now that are just like beef and salt in bags there like jerky which is I love jerky everybody likes jerky only crazy people don't like jerky but like eat that kind thing as a snack instead yeah what do you think we're going to look back on in a 100 years and say I can't believe we did that can I talk about the trans stuff sure it could be you want that on YouTube I that's what I think we're going to look back on and be like that's crazy and I mean like putting kids on hormones or doing surgery that makes them like infertile as a teenager I think that's what we're going to look back on in a 100 years for sure Britain's reversed it Germany's gone like full steam ahead encouraging it certain states in America have backed off so I think it's already versing but we'll definitely look back in time over the last like 3 years is and be like oh wow they were doing what to children and what do you think it's going to take for that to be like a more normal dialogue like people need to like you know transition as like a younger person and maybe like they get older and they don't like that decision unfortunately I feel like a lot of people are going to have to get hurt and then they're going to have to come out and say hey this was you know I was really depressed I was confused when I was 14 I went to a psychiatrist they suggested this I thought that was a good idea and now I'm stuck with this forever I think that's going to have to happen to more people unfortunately and what about those who do it as an adult like they live their entire life feeling a little bit you know out of their body or whatever and they're like okay I'd like to make a change this is kind of how I felt deep that's what I've been uh thinking too thinking about for yourself no no but just the the people in general who that's what I've been thinking about Jack you know no but for the people who have gone their entire lives thinking that like I am born in the wrong body and I do not feel like I am my gender and I felt this way since a kid I'm you know you could say I'm 25 you're an adult you're fully developed this is something I've been thinking about for a long time and I want to be who I feel like I am on the you know in my mind my perspective is something's wrong with your head bluntly but I also don't care so like if I also don't know what that feels like so if they're going to do that and they're 25 then like that's their choice I think doing it to a kid is insane like I don't you like you guys remember when you're like 13 or 14 you can't even see straight like I couldn't even use my brain properly till I was like 22 probably like it took a while and as a teenager you're going through all these fluctuations like you're going through puberty it's uncomfortable like doing that to kids before they can think is a completely different story than like consenting adults I still think messaging and propagandic can impact adults obviously but um I'm more concerned about like pre8 I agree I think there's a the difference when you're a kid versus like when you're making a fully inal four year olds that's crazy yeah I mean I I don't even remember anything from when I was like three years I know yeah neither do I my thing 100 years from now is uh shorts and Tik toks is attention span do you think it's going to go back to long form or do you think it's going to get shorter everything's going to be in like VR though or ar in a 100 years like we have no idea probably AR for everything to me it just seems like such a strong dopamine hit especially if you're growing as a child do you think they'll ever regulate it like I know in Florida they just passed a bill that you have to be 16 I think it's before you can have social media accounts in Florida probably smart yeah which I think makes sense I don't know but if it's a little check box it's like oh yeah I'm 16 Facebook I think is yeah Facebook I think has always been like 13 but you could just say oh I'm you know whatever age I'm 13 that's fine so I don't know I think it's really got to be in the parents but I can't imagine what it would do to your atten span and the way you you function to not have Tik Tok like that's what you grew up to it's like that's what your brain has to be accustomed to I don't know anxiety to I don't know if you could reverse that cuz imagine you go from the ages of like two years old to five just scrolling Tik toks and like that those instant hits it would be no different than having a kid sit at a a slot machine and just constantly hit the buttons yeah I do think people are capable of healing their brains from like serious damage but it would probably be going in the right direction direction if that was regulated even the emotional like seeing people who are face tuned or behind video filters like what that does for a teenager like that's hard on adults let alone teenagers what's been your experience with that because I know from my perspec I don't really notice I think it's more like I I don't feel like guys usually do like the face tune sort of stuff probably impacts girls more yeah and from what I've read especially teenage girls being like that's what I'm supposed to look like when you can't cuz it's not real mhm it's not good and that definitely like let alone diet and our environment and things and like not having enough friends and not exercising causing depression that's going to cause depression too did you feel like you fell into that same sort of trap of comparing yourself to other like face tuned people online yeah I was at least older like when I kind of got exposed to that was more like 23 24 which is a safer age than like 13 or 12 or 11 I think you have to be careful who you follow I'm like better at it now I saw one this is years ago of I think it was one of the Kardashians where someone went through like all their photos and like pointed out exactly where they were altered and it was wild and some of them's like you see the lines just like kind of curve and they're adjusting things that like you wouldn't even think of adjusting it's like completely like some random you know indent that they want and like they're I Don't Know But Me growing up like being like 10 or 11 on the computer for the first time like the thing back then was celebrities without makeup and you would be able to go through no I remember that to totally different and from me back then I'm like why without makeup it's why like as a kid you start to even notice the differences on that I don't think any like you assume people at a celebrity Point are immune like we talked about earlier like oh tabloids why would that bother them but they're also just people so they read the comments underneath yeah just like anyone reads comments underneath and they're impacted you do get desensitized after a while for sure but like we're still social animals and like want other people to like us and things so they're still impacted by what people say otherwise they wouldn't use things like face tune speaking of how do you keep your ego in check after getting very popular and like I know you guys grew up a little bit more on the poorer side and then acquiring a lot of wealth and having people like rever you for so many different reasons like like that your how they enjoy your belief systems and and ideology how do you not let that get to your to your ego it was probably harder to begin with cuz it's super exciting right especially if you don't have a social media and then it starts growing you're like wo this is really cool that novelty wore off and then I'm probably kept in check by God mostly not by like my own value of myself otherwise I think it's probably impossible to keep it from going to your head so I don't value like compared to a number of years ago I don't value the social media component as much as I value things that are actually happening in my own life and I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to like choices I'm making necessarily I give credit to God for that how how does God play into that exactly just like changing what I'm attracted to so I used to be attracted to making a lot of money and that was I think partly because I grew up not having very much money and partly because I was like I was so sick that I was like I can do this and I can prove myself and making money shows people that you're valuable and I think also being a girl I was like I don't know attracted to that in a way that I probably shouldn't have been uh like attracted to it and you know people who are obsessed with money you shouldn't really like be like that and so I think I was kind of like that but it felt okay like it felt like I was poor and I'm just try I'm trying to do good things and I'm like being successful and that's a good thing but then I was ending up not paying attention to like more real things in my life and it's not like I wasn't paying attention to them but I wasn't obsessed with those things like I was obsessed with the goal of like being successful and then when I started like honestly when I started reading the Bible more and had a like felt more of a relationship um with God and Jesus that changed my heart to not valuing the more like vain aspects of my life as much so like social media money kind of thing were you religious growing up or was this something you discovered as an adult like my dad always taught me the psychological significance of the Bible so like very metaphorical what you know what job he's the one that he gets completely tortured by uh Satan and he's like he loses his kids and Satan you know makes him very ill and I was always like oh that like I kind of identify with that because I was so ill and I learned about like Noah's Arc and like everybody kind of knows about Noah's Arc and stuff but I didn't really I didn't pray we didn't go to church like I went to church once with my grandma like no and my dad wasn't religious and my mom wasn't religious but when she had cancer she almost died from cancer in 2019 and it was like a crazy rare cancer that like nobody has and there there were like 18 case studies and everybody died it was really awful she had surgery and then the surgery the surgeon like nicked something and it wouldn't heal and she was dying and she wasn't religious at all and then like one day she goes I'm going to be better by our anniversary my so my dad and my mom's anniversary and we were like okay Mom you're on a lot of morphine like that's that'd be great um and she goes to to for surgery in the US and it didn't work and she comes back to Canada and on their anniversary she just healed and nobody could understand why and she was like it was God just like kind of out of the blue and I was like okay that was strange and I don't really know how to understand that and she was just like that was God like he he spoke to me he said he would do that and it's been really since then that that I've been like oh maybe these religious people aren't so crazy like you maybe there's more out there than what I was thinking before how do you even start by becoming religious do you you start by reading the Bible I started by reading the Bible reading the gospels and then wanting it like I wanted it I wasn't someone who was scoffing at it at that point I like early on in my life I was like oh Christians are like the homeschooled kids that don't that think Harry Potter is evil but I think I had so many hard things happen to me and like terrible things happen to me that I was like if that were true or if I believed that like I want that I want that faith that my mom has because like she started to believe in God and Jesus her cancer healed and then she became like a nicer more like welcoming more patient person and I was like that if I had that faith in something higher that I think would be beneficial for me so I I had to want it I wanted it and then I started reading the Bible and it was really like a number of years later a couple years later that it just clicked and I was like okay I get it but I didn't get it for a long time I was just reading the Bible I tried to go to church a few times but I was like I don't really understand it I don't really understand how has it changed your outlook today well I I went into it a bit like a lot of what changed for me was I used to Value different things than I value now like I've always I've always wanted kids and things but I was like but I really want to be successful and I want to build like we're building an app Peterson Academy an online education app which is launching in in like June it's right like happening right away and I was like I want to be successful and to have money so that I can be one of these like billionaire people to try and change society for a better that was my aspiration and that was because I was so sick and was like we need to be teaching people not to eat processed foods and just like something as simple as that I was like I want to get to the level of power that I can do that so that was more my goal and then since I got saved I would say it's more family Ori it literally switched to that even though I have all this business opportunity and the social media opportunity and things it's just like I don't care as much and I think I was caring about it in an unhealthy way probably you know I hired somebody to do housekeeping and stuff I wasn't just paying as much attention to that cuz those tasks kind of bothered me and now they don't bother me as much it was small changes like that and then I'm also calmer overall and like happier it was a very strange change going from somebody who grew up in like the middle of downtown Toronto and like thought Christians were does that give you more purpose it's mostly calmness and joy like I was also the type of person that if anything bad happened to me and a lot of bad things happened to me I was like what can I do to fix this like what are all the ways I can do to fix this like when you have a work problem and you just try to attack it from every angle um and that happened when I was sick I was like I'm going to do everything to get better and I eventually got to All Me diet and was like okay that seems to work and my mom was always like it's up to God he'll figure it out and I was always like okay but it's also kind of up to us because you can't just like sit there you have to like do things and I think now I can understand you should still do things like not doing things just CU you believe in God isn't the right way to act but I know that it'll work out eventually like it's I don't have to push as hard as I was trying because it's not like reality isn't just up to me to me that sounds like a lot more confidence though that you have the confidence that things will work themsel out yeah it's like faith faith that that things will work out also it seems like very outcome Orient when you're placing like all of your emphasis on like how hard you're trying and it's like I'm only trying because I want a posi outcome whereas like if you know everything will be okay regardless then it's like obviously you can still try and you should still try but knowing you'll be okay regardless of outcome is like a little bit well it's psychologically a huge relief yeah like yeah yeah kind of like God's got me we're fine you don't just like drop everything you're still going to go through hard things and try and figure them out but you don't have to like stress out that your life is going to be over whenever anything bad happens did you ever feel like when you ever when you were having conversations with your dad that he was like psychologically studying you oh yeah like every conversation forever up until now yes you felt like it well I mean he does this thing where he I can't glare at you CU I've Botox in my eyebrows but like he glares at you and like studies you and like it's like yeah and like thinks and puts his hand up here yes but then is he present in the conversation or is he focusing on The Meta of the conversation like you're saying this but you really mean this you're saying this because of this like there's so many abstractions from the actual he's kind of in in the metal like you said is he correct though because I kind of find myself doing the same thing and be like oh you're saying this but that's because of this and this and this you wouldn't well it's true though because a lot of people will will tell you something and it's not what they're trying to tell you they're like alluding to things or they're like twisting the truth a little bit and you're like no what you mean is or how you're feeling is so I'd say it depends yeah he's probably correct does he ever just like cut right to the chase then like you say something he's like all right I mean I know what you're saying here not as much anymore I think since I've gotten older I feel like he did that a lot when I was in my early 20s though wouldn't that make it harder to connect though cuz it seems like there's like there's different layers of the conversation rather than meeting on Common Ground not really like like I said he brought things down to our level like throughout Me growing up he wasn't always high high level it was pretty high level but we could still understand him so no we could still meet on on Common Ground do you think you've picked up on those Tendencies I don't think so like I probably do what everybody else does in terms of trying to figure out why somebody's saying something or something like that but not to the degree my dad is Dad does it I'm not even capable of that like his level of thinking in the abstract and verbal fluency like I'm not even on the same page so I don't think that's something I could have just picked up on I think you'd have to be born with that kind of level of thinking do you ever feel like you're living in his shadow that's a tricky question a bit like I get that question quite a bit like does it bug you you or something that but like it doesn't bug me I don't really feel like that I mean there's comments on like there's comments on my podcast and comments online they're like oh you wouldn't be where you are without your dad like that's true obviously like anybody who's sibling or parent gets famous is going to impact everybody around them like that's obviously true I'm mostly grateful for it I just so I'm not concerned about it do I feel like I'm living in a shadow like maybe a bit but I don't care I tend to see um kids of people who are wellknown or very successful find it hard to live up to those expectations that people place on them or you always want to like do better you or they just throw it out the window entirely right it like it's pointless to even try because like I'm going to be a failure in comparison or it's something where it's like I have to exceed what they've done so that that way I could prove myself and that I have what it takes I probably had more of that I think it was also easier because I helped build dad's social media channels and I started like kind of taking a management position in 2018 that was pretty early on it was really early on so like he was putting videos on YouTube but my brother helped start the podcast I helped negotiate like speaking events and kind of help set him up with people who could get him touring I set him up with a different publisher I did Instagram and Facebook in like 2013 like super early or 2014 so because we started working together early on it was kind of like a family project so it doesn't really feel like I got left behind I think because it was like oh I was helping does it ever worry you I hear so many people say you never want to work with your friends and family I've probably had the opposite experience like I talked about it a little bit earlier so many people that I've met since 2017 that are like new people have been awful people like I didn't realize what percentage of psychopaths show up when you have any type of like money or wealth you come across a psychopath every now and then as a regular person and then the more assets you have like the higher the percentage of psychopaths that show up could you give us an example of that well just like briefly we've had employees that we thought that were pretty close to our family that have turned out have been like lying and stealing money that's happened a ton of times it's like every third person it's crazy it's been crazy bad and so like is it bad luck or is it just it get you have to be more selective about who you're with depending on who you are and so is it worse to work with like family and friends um my experience has been no like most of the people I trust are from before 2017 and then my family trusts each other because we're family I feel like I've had the opposite experiences like everyone that I've met is like super trustworthy but now we have a we just not tuned to like maybe that's it man I don't know I've found like with the people and it's been a number of people it takes like 3 years to find out because eventually you find out but it takes a long time Jack that that's an awful nice house you know oh thanks man that that are longer like 5 years but eventually you're like oh you've been lying five years okay now we're cutting it close to the wire yeah that's how long we've known each other you guys are probably okay okay prob probably a year so do you think modern dating is completely screwed I mean it can't be completely screwed or people are completely screwed so I don't think it's completely screwed I think it's rough right now I don't even know where you'd start like my my ex I met on online and that was what app terrible Plenty of Fish Plenty of Fish so what is that like coffee meets Bagel that's like a one where you're going out to like find your soulmate it was supposed to be like that but like meeting people online is is Shifty that didn't work out we won't go go into details there but it didn't work out so what do you do I don't know what you would do I would say meet people in church but I'm all like you know that's the direction I'm going in right now um I think you can find good people there I don't know about meeting people online it's so tricky just like be careful I guess go out for a lot of sober dates like don't go out for drunk dates that's a bad idea too do you think do you think it's harder for men or women in terms of dating cuz it seems like women have way more choice but the choice isn't that good and men don't have a lot of choice so they kind of take whatever they could get I don't know who it's harder for I feel like it's harder for both sides right now I think it's extremely hard for both sides I think it's riskier for women CU if like a woman ends up with a bad man then they can go down like a route where they end up with kids and things and like it's it's rough and that's going to be rough for the man too but and so maybe I'm just talking about this from a female perspective but but even just getting pregnant makes it riskier for women but I think both both sexes are having a miserable time right now I mean it depends if you're interested in a topic like I'd probably get interested in some sort of Niche and then try and meet people in that Niche that's probably the route I'd go or meet people through work and then meet them sober and judge them harshly do you think dating apps are making it worse for people harder to meet and and have true connections with people yeah I think it's too easy like even with Tinder and I haven't been on dating apps in like years and years but even with Tinder it was just like being able to swipe through what people look like without even knowing who they are that quickly can't be good for people especially not from an evolutionary perspective and like how many people did we used to meet not very many people now we have social media and you have all those options it's crazy dad and I wanted to make a dating app we're thinking of doing that after Peterson Academy that would be based off of the understand yourself criteria yeah incorporate that into it so you could judge people's um personalities get matched to people who have like similar interests but also the right compatible personality with you do you think that would be a really successful metric to use is personality based or do you think that there's something detached from that just some like raw chemistry or values I mean I don't think you can just be like this is your personality and now we're going to mesh but I think you can screen out a lot of people so like you guys are extroverts I assume no there's no way there's no way you have a podcast got extra version on the on the totally totally incorrect 97 there we go yeah what did you get he got 70% still extremely exted extrovert on the questionnaire it's like how easy do you make friends how easy is it to communicate with people it's very easy for me that's that can be agreeableness to those questions it's not I was I was uh highly disagreeable I came up during like that I was like really low I think I was like 15 on disagreeable or whatever it is like very low uh my thing know is it's it's only because of the YouTube channel that people come up to me it's really easy because they'll come up to me Graham I I watch your channel I do this and it's so I just sit there and I listen which I'm really good at listening so I don't have to go up and like talk to people but that to me is exhausting like my idea of a good night is like home alone I don't know if it's extraversion or not but I will say I wasn't entirely shocked when I saw that really yeah I'm not an extrovert I'm definitely not the reason definitely are more than the average person you would have aast front of a camera I'm talking to a camera there's a few people in the room you're not talking to a camera at all you're talking I'm just saying but like this is this is for a camera I'm talking to a c but I'm just saying it's for camera so it's easy for me to be like in front of a camera and and know that okay like for three hours I gotta be my best self get hyped up on coffee and I could do this so if if we go to to an event I would say this speaks introversion to me we go to an event and let's just say it's an event I know a lot of people that they're going to recognize gram like oh my God I'm such a big fan grams be like okay how do I like stay in the corners and away from everybody right so I can I can see that and that sounds like introversion however I will say around the right people you love talking you really like when we're when we're hanging out usually I'll say he does a vast majority of the talking and I'll do a lot of the question asking and he seems like he livens up depends on the topic if it's YouTube related money related or aquarium relationship relationships I love talking about yeah those four topics great anything else it's hard for me with small talk that that might be because you're disagreeable like disagreeable people will be like small talk is stupid I have better things to do and that'll over like overtake some of the extroversion extroverts don't just want to talk to anybody they like talking if you're disagreeable then you won't want to talk to everybody but the people you like yeah that sounds know sounds 15th percenti is pretty low and disagreeability yeah yeah it scores on yeah agreeableness and 15 percentile is pretty low Jack was like the most agreeable person and I was like the most disagreeable person which is an interesting Dynamic we have very like flip-flopped results fun there are very few that were that were on par or similar but we get along great and so that's one of the things where it's like if you're trying to match People based on compatibility it's like okay so there's there's way ways to get around that you don't just match if you have the same personality now sometimes that can work but like neuroticism which is how anxious you get if you have a highly neurotic person you should either just avoid them no offense to anyone who's neurotic but like or you should match them with someone who's really low in neuroticism cuz two neurotic people will just fight all the time or be anxious all the time so those would have to be on the opposite for extra version if you're going to have someone that's like at 97 if you go out with someone who's at like 5 they're going to want to stay home all the time and you're going to start wanting to go out and seeing people and having a social time that just long-term probably isn't going to last so you probably want somebody similar in extraversion but other aspects can change like agreeableness you can have someone highly agreeable with someone with very low agreeableness and you can have two very low agess people two high in agre I tend to think the older I get the more disagreeable I become because I'm kind of set in my way he's going to be the guy that like yells at the kids as they're like running in the streets he you're running too fast or the people that go down the road in their car your car's too loud and he's going to sit on his bench and do that I I I can kind of see that to be honest I can see that it's probably pretty accurate that's totally fine there needs to be those people in neighborhoods mhm it's a staple yeah is there any personality trait that's just objectively bad honest neuroticism isn't great like women are like on average more neurotic than men so they score like on average 60 and Men score on average 40 percentile 90 plus they're like highly sensitive very like volatile irritable it it's a measure if you're scoring above 90 I would say you should look into see whether or not you're depressed and then that's skewing the results um because some people with depression score really high and then when they're not depressed they score lower and is this stuff that's like coded into you so for example you take the test when you're like 15 it's likely to be similar by the time you're 70 it's not anything that like you can actually make a change so for example you take it you're not depressed but you're like 85 neuroticism and you're like okay well I guess you know I'm just probably not going to have many friends it depends um openness you can change with psychedelics they've done studies on psychedelics and if you you take them your openness levels will go up so that's interesting neuroticism can change whether or not you're depressed so if like one of your family members just died and you take a personality test it's probably going to skew the results the other ones though are pretty stable so I started taking these tests before they were online um from my dad and my personality has stayed remarkably stable throughout you know from like 13 to now other than the neuroticism which went way down after I got healthy and off of all the medications now I'm curious slightly separate from that when you met your husband did you immediately know it was the right fit pretty much yeah so it was really fast like we met and got married 3 months later 3 months yeah 3 months how many times did you guys see each other in that three month per it was like a lot like it wasn't like if you knew someone for like years and you saw them like once a week or something you could have just combined that in that three-month period like we saw each other every day do you think it's important to like know someone for over extended normally yeah because there's Psychopaths everywhere cuz you just said it took like 3 to 5 years to see if they they stealing money I know and this is a person you work with this is fair this this is fair don't smile at me it um it's fair I knew I knew with my current husband and partly that's because like I was 209 at that point so I'd like met people it wasn't like 22 or 23 and naive and I'd met people so I was like no this is right and he's got like a unique combination of personality traits that like match mine like he's extroverted he's very entrepreneurial like he wants to build things he's super smart so these are things that are rare it's it's hard to find people like I feel bad for people dating nowadays was it a logical decision for you where you kind of looked at the personality traits and the qualities and said this is what I want or was it an emotional reaction where it's like you just a gut level this is it it was mostly emotional but then the logic also helped sure so it was mostly emotional like we met we stayed up talking all night he's probably more extroverted than me which is like difficult so that kind of like lined up and you could just tell that from having a conversation with someone if you hit it off and it's like back and forth and back and forth and back and forth for hours so like that happened but then it was also you know I like poked and proded around to see to get more information I was like did he smart he I think he done the personality test like before no like run your own tests like I know that's like a thing that some like what do you mean run your own test like like here's a really poor example of one but like let's say the the guys at a bar or whatever and the girl sends her friend over to like go like hit on the guy or something something like that or like you know do do I look weird in this something or whether you know what I mean like poking and prodding kind of he told me he wanted to marry me like a month after we met it was really fast and I was like okay you have no idea what you're getting into right like you don't know me very well I was like I I was like I'm divorced I have a kid I like run my dad's companies I work all the time was like I never want to do laundry I like basically thre everything that was like there's a lot of baggage here so I guess that was kind of a test I was like here's all the reasons that like this is going to be not as easy as you think it is maybe and he was like that's fine I like okay I can imagine it would be honestly really intimidating to enter the Peterson family you know what I mean like I feel like there would be a lot of psychoanalyzing going on and like especially like meeting the family you know what my mom said we we were FaceTiming I was at the cottage and I was like oh this is Jordan his name's Jordan too by the way so if that's going to be made fun of it can happen now awesome but thank you you are the agreeable one she she takes a look at him and goes are you gay that was the first thing she said why did she say that she wanted to see if he had a sense of humor oh that's funny that's it wasn't like there was no way that was a serious question she just like did he take see no no which is good because like can't be easily offended around my mom I don't know he's not overwhelmed very easily so I don't think he was worried about it and my dad's way nicer like he doesn't really I feel like I know no think you'd be very intense and like like what do you want out of life are you you know what I mean are you going to treat my daughter right not really he's pretty nice like when we had parties or anything or I had friends come over they were initially scared of my dad cuz he's loud they be like oh your dad's scary and then they'd like meet my family they'd be like oh your mom is scary but you'd think he'd be hardened by everything that's that's gone on he's not how I don't know like even from people coming in like new employees or something where we find out they're like conning us I was like we can't trust people we have to be like aware and he's just like nope I don't know how he's not hardened he's just like a nice compassionate guy was your husband a fan of your dad beforehand and and how do you get so much trust in such a short amount of time so we've been working together a bit we've been working together so I like knew him a little but it wasn't like romantic at all I just like knew him I was still in Toronto I was considering moving to Austin I knew he lived in Austin so I was like oh you can show me around Austin and he like drove around showing me all the homeless people and I was like who is this weirdo I was like this isn't a tour of Austin I wanted I think the older you get especially as a female cuz I know I was super naive when I was like 23 24 and didn't know how to judge people at all and I'm just getting better at it the older I get I could just kind of tell like you have this intuitive sense as a girl if you're with someone and they make you feel safe and it's not really logical it's really intuitive and I think it's built in to keep you away from like dangerous men and so I was around him and I was like oh you make me feel safe I haven't felt that really that was a big part of it and then we'd work together and then we got along really well and then we spent all our time together so it wasn't like we were seeing each other two or three times a week or two times a week it was like all of our time together and if you spend all of your time together even in like a 3mon period it's quite a bit of time but that would be fast and I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for people was there ever a financial imbalance between the two of you you obviously running a very successful business oh yeah 100% how do you navigate that you know what I think because I was already set financially I wasn't necessarily looking for somebody with that like I think in a normal like male to female relationship they're probably looking for somebody who can provide for them in a financial way more than I would have been I was like I'm set I'm good I've taken care of myself like I don't really need anybody so I was also in a good place to like enter a relationship cuz I was like I'm not like I'm lonely and I want to be with somebody but I don't need somebody he's also taken a lot off my plate like I wanted to marry somebody who could oh this was the other thing I told him when I was trying to scare him away I said um because we were already working together and he was like I was slowly giving him more things to do being like can you also handle this can you also handle that and I was like whoever I marry I want to be able to work with and I don't know if that's normal for a relationship but I was like if I'm going to be with somebody I work all the time like all day on things and I'd rather be working with like my husband otherwise I'm going to be working with other like men most likely all day and over that like first three three Monon period he took a lot off my plate and I was watching and seeing if he could handle it because I've tried to give a lot of my work away before like I said and it's been like oh this is too complicated for you and that's like talking to lawyers or negotiating contracts or just like things you think that I don't know people could just do that that not everybody can do even it's like you guys have a podcast and it's like successful and you're like well anyone can do this they can't and so I gave him more and more and could see how competent he was MoneyWise we weren't on the same footing ground but he's better at negotiating business and and running things in me which is a huge relief so I've been able to give a bunch of work away it's funny I'm the opposite of that I would not want to work with my spouse and I'm a difficult person to work with I think Jack could attest to that that I am very picky highly disagreeable I want things done a certain way and the last thing I want is to like have a relationship that's intertwined what if they agreed with you though so this is what I scored by the way I scored um first percentile in agreeableness so you're like a 99 or whatever the the top score is the most agreeable no I'm first percentile that's disagreeable which I think is why I've been able to handle like all meat diet and like some controversy would be just being like screw you I'd like whatever but Jordan and I don't really disagree on things so when I first started working it it was definitely a transition cuz I didn't want to give away some things CU I was like some of these are mine and I built them and they're like my babies and you can't have them um but we agree on most business decisions if it was someone I didn't like agree with that would be a problem we agree on most and when we disagree he's right a good percentage of the time and it's like okay that ended up being valuable I feel like if you find something like that if you have someone you're working with and they're annoying or they're just slowing you down it's the worst thing in the entire world for a relationship I think like we're in a unique position which is why when I told him when I was trying to scare him away I was like you know this is a lot that I'm expecting here um I didn't think I was going to get married after I got divorced I was like there's way too much baggage and there's like a specific thing I'm looking for and is that like a thing that women experience after divorce 100% had so many after I started talking about the divorce or just told people I was divorced my belief and I think that's from growing up in a more conservative family my belief was okay I'm just going to be single cuz I have a kid and I I don't have any value like I literally that's what I thought and I had a bunch of people especially more conservative women who haven't even told people that they're divorced or that they have a kid they haven't admitted that on social media who are like I'm going to be alone forever and they're like 26 I was like you're a very attractive woman and you're very successful like that's just a lie you've been sold so yeah that I fully believe that like I was okay with it I was like I'd rather be alone than in a bad relationship when should people end a relationship at what point because I know there's a difference between you know you make a commitment to somebody and you want to work through those problems but then there are also some problems that you can't work through or that aren't worth working through like it it's hard to say I think if you're getting danger vibes from the person you're with as a woman that you should really pay attention to that even if you can't understand why cuz I think that's built into us and so don't don't ignore that and then I would say don't get like don't just get married unless you really really want it it's a lot easier to end a relationship if you're not married definitely try not to have a kid with that person because that just screws up everything um but if you're in a situation where you find out that person is lying even like small lies I think then like be on your guard and maybe like address those lies and if they don't fix themselves I would leave so lying in any circumstance is unacceptable yeah but I find that people who lie they don't lie about one thing they lie about like everything a little bit they're comfortable with lying yeah and or or are and I know gaslighting is super overused but if they're saying oh this happened you're like I don't remember that you're like oh no just trust me that happened that kind of behavior and like lying about things I'd say like get out regardless what about just not bringing up something maybe it's bothering you you have some thought or something and it pops into your head every once in a while but you know it'll ignite some big you know argument or whatever and you're like you know what it's not really worth it this is probably a me problem it makes me a little uncomfortable but I'm just not going to I used to be like that especially when I was in a bad relationship I was like that a lot was like I didn't really understand how I was feeling and didn't want to hurt feelings and stuff I don't do that ever anymore so if there's something bugging me and I'm worried about the repercussions I say it anyway regardless of the outcome like every time because it's a it's like it's a form of lying but mostly because those problems don't even if it is a you problem then say like hey this bug me or I'm concerned about this it might all be me but like can we talk about it a little bit to see if I'm the problem here or if this is a problem we should work through and I think 100% of the time that's better to do otherwise you don't say it and then they just sit in your like soul and like Fester there and they never go away so you can't just like forget about something that it depends if you're like a volatile person and they did something and you're like okay let me give it a week and then and see if I'm still irritated by it and you're not that's different but if it's something repeated that you're just not mentioning I think seriously bring it up because if you can't communicate with like your spouse or your girlfriend about tiny things that bother you then like how are you going to be deeply in love and you shouldn't be in a relationship where you're worried about hurting their feelings like if you're and I think that happens more probably for men cuz like women are a bit more sensitive but it happens for for women with men as well if you're with someone and you're worried about hurting their feelings all the time then probably find somebody else as well cuz that's exhausting but part of me wonders like people can have a natural predisposition to being okay with higher levels of discomfort and secrecy right oh yeah and if they're truly hardwired that way then it's like okay well just let them be if it works for them then it you know what I mean like I can't say in a dogmatic way that you need to completely transparent about every single problem that you have in this relationship for everybody out there because certain people are just coded differ I think I disagree with that people who are super agreeable and I scored I scored weird on agreeableness it like it um splits into compassion and politeness I scored first percentile in politeness I didn't Score first percentile in agreeableness I scored like 83 on compassion so I ended up more like a 40 or something with agreeableness so I no I said that wrong earlier it was politeness where I scored really well politeness yeah you offered me this before we got started politness is more like politness is a bad word for maybe yeah it's more like not being blunt I scored high in the bluntness you did I did he's very blunt okay okay that's what I did appar been apparently it's been an issue I don't know it's I mean it's only an issue once you before you get it comes off harsh I think so some people might take it the wrong way so sometimes people come to me and what do you think of this I'm like it sucks it's really bad and if your compassion is also low then you also don't really care as much about how they feel when you say people the honest answer is my thing of like hey if I this sucks I'm just going to say it's bad I think that's better but I do feel bad I don't know if it's better I think be be honest right so like if you don't like something be like hey look I'm not going to lie that's not my favorite here's something that can maybe like improve it see that's what I would boom that sucks i' do something more like that I told Jack that like I talk to people how I want to be talked to and so if I show somebody something I would love for them to say I hate it and so do you want other people to talk to you the way that they want you to talk to them I I just you assign that same standard to everybody else what I know it's just what I know it's an agreeable thing that's all it is it's so my husband super disagreeable and he'll do the same like brutally honest thing where I was like okay okay that made that person uncomfortable and because that person's uncomfortable now I'm uncomfortable so maybe we like just tone it down a little bit so he's but he's like well I'm just telling them the truth I'm like okay but like it's funny I've had the exact conversations with Macy sometimes I I just think maybe they're they're fine and she says no you hurt their feelings I'm like no yeah yeah yeah same conversation totally fine extremely polite extremely polite but I was like no I would that wouldn't hurt your feelings no dumb it's like I that's exactly yeah and it I've had those disagreements with Jordan and then their feelings are hurting like see other people are like that sometimes but interesting but back to what you said about like not saying things agreeable people are more likely to become resentful over time I learned this from my dad so they're less likely to say things that are bothering them because they can put up with like kind of burdening themselves rather than burdening the other person that's just what agreeable people are like super compassionate super polite and they want everybody to like be calm and happy and very pleasant to be around usually agreeable people but over time if you don't bring up these things they'll also get resentful and that happens a lot with women who are super agreeable they'll go out of their way to do things for other people like hey would you pick this up for me hey would you do this and they'll be like yeah sure that's no problem and eventually they'll be like hey you know you spent the last 5 years asking me to pick up your socks and I've hated it the entire time and snap now I'm not saying all agreeable people will do that but I'm saying if you're agreeable you're more likely to get sful over longer periods of time so you should still bring up things that are bothering you cuz usually just talking to people you can frame it in a way that's like puts a bunch of the blame on yourself too like hey I'm kind of feeling a little bit weird about this it it's probably my fault like how do you feel about this and then at least it's out in the open I firmly believe that after going through a divorce and making doing like the complete wrong thing should have addressed a bunch of things a lot earlier that were in my head and I was just like it's probably me I don't think it was me now but in at the time I was like it's probably probably me I should just like you know think differently or something and then you want someone you can be open with otherwise relationships are no fun I agree I think you can say the exact same thing in two completely different ways and get different responses and it's kind of just about reading the situation and knowing that certain people are receptive to different sorts of like okay I want to transmit information that we should change this aspect and different people are receptive in different ways and you kind of have to figure out the language yeah and then play that game a little bit like I know I have to approach differently if I want to enact change then I have to approach let's say my my mom or something that it's just completely different I think that's just normal and if you can like I think if you're agreeable to you you're better at re reading that I think although I'm not I'm just I'm not taking that from anywhere here's the thing I I think there are very few people out there maybe gramsy an anomaly but very few people out there where if you say something very bluntly it comes off as accusatory and I think people have a natural gut reaction to recoil at that and I think that's just like coded in our DNA it's like okay well you're not one of us you're one of them and so that's why I think like if you're actually trying to engage in persuasive speech you can't alienate the other person or say something that is even you know received as accusatory right maybe you're not transmitting it in an accusatory way but it's being received that way and if you have like a goal that you want to achieve then you have to understand how they receive information and then play that game and I just think generally speaking um like saying something super bluntly and harshly is not not going to yield the desired outcome I basically agree with that I think so I'm way more likely to like change what I'm saying so that it'll be received by the other person in a more positive way even if the underlying message is the same like rather than Jordan that'll just be like blunt and he'll just say the message right um but my compassion and I think it that's what it falls under for agreeableness was high enough that I could have actually been a bit blunter and I've seen that with how he speaks cuz sometimes he'll be a little bit less blun I could be blunter and get a better response from people and I was actually overdoing it on the niess especially in in work and being taken seriously in work like I was writing emails in a way where people just weren't taking me as seriously because I wasn't as being as authoritative because I was being overly polite because I'm compassionate and so it depends on the situation right but I think for people who score really high in agreeableness they can tone it back to get more towards the mean like more towards the average person and it would Ben them and what's your recommendation for someone who's blunt and someone who's disagree I like I like I mean like my husband's super disagreeable I like it I find it refreshing I would say though if you're around like this is what I tell him too I can usually pick up on it more easily than him though with certain employees where I'm like if you say it that way it's going to hurt their feelings and he's like no it won't just like exactly what and then it does it'll be like see but then it'll have to happen like four times I will say I I want to add this stipulation here if you just say flat out yeah I don't like it versus I don't like it because X and you point out a very specific thing that can universally be seen as okay that's probably not the best way so I'll send him an intro that I devised for for you know one of our podcasts and he's like it sucks and I'm like okay well like what do you want me to work on you know like if you were like sucks but I would change the the text font to this yeah and I think it would look better I'll be okay I can actually do something about this Jordan credit that's what he does it's not harshness right but it's like it's like harshness with a shared goal because I have the same goal as him I want to make a banger intro but if it's just flat out this sucks it's like okay well thanks a lot see when I'm thinking about it I'm not thinking anything about Jack I'm thinking this intro itself is not good so to me I kind of separate it's like the intro versus Jack's effort like I detach it to I'm like this intro sucks this is horrible but I don't think for the record I don't come up with horrible intros anymore no but something like that I detach the person from the thing so if I see like a a horrible thumbnail I'm like that's that's awful I don't think anything the person I think that's just a disagreeable thing to do is like objectively you know whatever you said wasn't quite right or whatever you did wasn't quite right without without attaching it to the person that's interesting I don't think that way okay I always attach it to the person and you were saying how do you tell them when it's going to hurt somebody's feelings I can feel their discomfort like so if you're in a conversation you're saying something and they they'll make like certain movements or their their voice will go up a little bit I can feel that like I'm uncomforable I feel like I'm really good at reading people no here's the thing that was the disagreeableness right there that was the disagreeable M but like we'll have guests that come over to the house to come shoot a podcast there have been multiple occasions where the guest comes up to me and they say is it just me or I feel like Graham doesn't really like me and they say that to me and I'm like no trust me when you walk in doesn't greet you and he's just like tinkering with his aquarium it's because he's in his little world and he's happy it's not the fact that he doesn't like you so you weren't joking about aquariums no nobleness yeah yeah so it's not that it's just like they feel like he's he doesn't give them the attention he doesn't like them or whatever and I do think you you're not super attune to like you know what other people are feeling in a conversation and he's generally pretty doesn't doesn't care like the lower in agreeableness you are you probably don't care my mom's pretty low like for a woman she's low she scored 30 and she didn't score high in compassion like she just scored 30 it's low it's kind of like average man and she didn't really care she'd say things that were true and harsh and blunt she say them to my friends sometimes and and they'd like be uncomfortable and she just wouldn't feel it or care and I would feel it and so I'd be like well I don't want to feel that so like can you make your words change a little bit so I think that's just agreeableness yeah that's really interesting and then I would say to somebody like that that like hey maybe it would you know make you better off if you were to care a little bit but I think like by virtue of being disagreeable even that can't like persuade them because they're like you're wrong nah yeah you it's it might be a that's just like a a one-way stop you know I I think the like the only way you'd change any type of behaviors by making mistakes and seeing a pattern and being like okay when I do X this happens and then you'd be able to convince yourself it's not a good idea I feel like I'm like that too I don't necessarily take suggestions from other people I I do but like it's nice to make my own mistakes and then see how that played out well thank you so much for coming on the podcast we really appreciate it also thank you guys for helping us out here that uh this setup is absolutely amazing I don't even know how many cameras lots of cameras sure it's going to look great so we really appreciate it thank you L to all your info in the description okay perfect it was nice meeting you guys too till next time see you