Member Q & A via Zoom (Sep 2026) 1 of 2

Welcome to another Wiki Tree member Q&A via Zoom session. My name is Betsy Co. We started the series back in 2022 to give WikiTers a chance to ask their questions in real time. Screen sharing on Zoom allows us to look at and edit profiles while we chat. No topic is off limits and we always want to remind folks that no question is too basic. Now, let's get to it. >> Welcome everyone. Um, I'm Denise Jarrett, one of the co-hosts. Oh, wow. Thanks, Murray. Wow. >> Um, yeah, one one of the co-hosts. So, uh, we're here to answer any questions that you might have. If you, you know, just feel free to pop them in the chat or raise your hands and we'll call on you. Um, I've been a member of Wiki Tree since 2020, starting with COVID. Um, so and and I learned something new every single day. Nothing's changed since since then. Everything like today I I came across some new information about surnames. So I I know there's a couple things that uh my other co-host Murray Maloney wanted to get into, but I'll go ahead and let him uh introduce himself and then let Stephen talk about himself. So Murray, off to you. Well, hi everyone. I'm Ray Maloney, as Denise said, and uh and behind me is the uh is the image of the Night Watch, which is from the Reichkes Museum in Amsterdam. >> Wow. >> Oh, I've been to the airport version of that. >> Oh, okay. Well, it was painted by Rembrandt and uh uh I was lucky enough to uh to visit the Reichkes Museum at one point in my life. Actually, twice in my life, I guess. And uh and this is they they have a room dedicated to this particular particular painting. And they spend they can spend like half an hour or more uh telling you about all the little details about this this image and the the uh the use of dark and light and uh and the and the characters who are in the image. Um because it because it's a real time in history. In any case, um, so, so that's what I spend part of my time doing is just enjoying art and, um, and the and and another big part of my time is spent here on Wiki Tree and, uh, uh, working on genealogy like the rest of you. And, uh, I guess when I started here in in 2019, I found it hard. Um, I come from a technology background. Uh, and I remember when I first started working with the Unix operating system that the people who work with Unix operating system would never answer a question straight, you know, if you'd say, "Well, how do you do this?" And they'd say, "Well, there's lots of ways to do that." And you you you you wanted to grab them by the throat, you know, and say, "Just give me a straight answer." But no, they wouldn't. You had to learn that there were lots of different ways to accomplish something using the Unix operating system. And then, you know, you had to go off and learn that on your own. They weren't going to help you. >> And um anyway, so it was kind of like that a bit on here on Wiki Tree that you know, you you got to figure it out on your own. And uh so it took me years to uh get comfortable and and feel like I could accomplish things here on Wiki Tree. And uh now I feel like, you know, now that I' I've learned quite a bit more. Um and it's so much easier now that I know how to use the tools and etc., etc. And I just wanted to give back some of my time to help the rest of you figure out how to how to work with this um crazy machine that we we uh we work with here uh doing genealogy. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to Stephen. >> Okay. Well, uh I accidentally came in to Wiki Tree. I didn't really need uh to ask for help so much because I did have some fair amount of background you know with wiki communities beforehand. Um but I understand that it is a struggle for people who are not familiar with the markup and the uh way to find information. I think if I learned anything in grad school is that, you know, you don't have to remember anything. You just have to be able to find it. And uh with the categorization tree, that helps, but you know, a lot of these help pages can still be uh located in multiple different locations and and it can be a struggle just to, you know, do a search to find the page you're looking for. So, I had to get better at doing searching. I had to, you know, do the Google search. I had to do the external search to be able to find the information on our own site, which I thought, well, this is backwards. I have to do this to do that. Uh but and you know in the process of hosting these or co-hosting these member Q&As's uh I got to learn more ways about how to do things right and I got to you know get these tips and tricks from other people that maybe I didn't know what I was you know I assumed that maybe the way I was doing it was the only way it was supposed to be done and then there was another way I found out about it. So I can see, you know, where your coral area is here, Murray, where here there are lots of options. There are different ways to do things. We all want to get to the same point, and that's to become better genealogologists and site our sources and do all that stuff and, you know, find our ancestors, right? Um it's just there's so many different pathways. it could be hard to stay on a single track and and thus you know the rabbit holes of doom uh start to strike and then you find yourself overwhelmed by oh man there's so many things I have to do and I only can do like a handful of them right so um now I totally understand that and I and I feel the pain and the struggle um but you know to to focus on like the small things and here I'm going to let Kayla into the room here um you know at least we can focus on like one thing at a time and maybe that can open up the avenue for people that have never seen that before. You know, they didn't know that there was a possibility for them. So, you know, I guess that's that's our role tonight is to find more of those little doors uh to open up for people tonight. So, I guess I'll hand that back to Denise. >> Oh, okay. And and and just like the two of them, my background is in it as well, but that really has nothing to do with Wiki Tree as far as I'm concerned. I I was from the the school where you you try to break it, you know, with the years that I spent in in IT. I went from being a a business analyst to a a project leader to um you know tester. I I covered all of those bases. So I I've just become accustomed to any new website I go to, I try to break it. I I move around and click on stuff whether I'm supposed to or not. I won't know unless I get an error. So, >> that's pretty much what I did. >> Havece to breaking Wiki Tree, Denise. >> Uh, no, I have not succeeded in breaking Wiki Tree as of yet, but I I constantly click on different links and oh, let's see what this does and let's see what that does. Like I like I said at the start, um I I learned something new. Well, from an email that we got from Chris Whitten today that there's going to be some updates around surnames. And of course, you know, you've got your one name studies that are going on and and there's the surname information that's out there right now that you can look at and and see what the percentage is of of those that are 100% good. uh error-free basically or or those that need more work to be done and and there's going to be more work coming along with that. So, you know, if you're you're focused on a specific surname, um you'll be able to get special emails around that surname and this is in addition to the tags. So, I think that's really cool and I'm looking forward to that. Um but like I said, learn something new every day, every single day. So, uh, with that said, does anyone have any questions or any anything that, um, yes, Stephen says, "Learning isn't hard when you got a library card." >> And, and that's in response to what BJ was saying. You just need to get the libraries to your >> friendly neighborhood librarian. So, >> something I learned from Arthur the animated series >> when when they were all marching down the sidewalk and they all had their library cards, they were unstoppable. >> Yep. So, any any questions? I know there was a person that had a question on uh G2G that uh Murray invited. Did he show up, Murray? >> I don't see him here yet. Oh, okay. >> But it does seem like at least they signed up to become uh they signed the honor code. So, that's a good start for them. >> Yeah, >> they didn't have that beforehand. >> Yeah, that that was a person who who wasn't a a full Wiki Tree member yet. He wasn't a Wiki Tree genealogologist yet. He was a guest member. So wanted to make some changes to a profile and he couldn't do it because he was a guest. Um >> Okay. I have one. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Um the storeathon is in two weeks. Well, three weeks, right? And October the weekend. >> First week the first October. Yeah. I was looking about about it and I almost got confused between the connectathon and the source. And with the source, if I have a uh if I have a deck comp and he has no sources, that means I could get points. I mean I could no >> no no no the the objective of the sourceathon is to add sources. It's to ident take those profiles that are unsourced >> um and and add sources to them. >> Well Jetcom has unsources too. Uh some of the Jetcoms are unsourced and so >> I I can't use those. Um, well, are you talking about picking a profile that was created through a Jedcom previously? >> Oh, okay. Then then I I'd say yes. As as long as you, you know, update the formatting and and clean up that Jedcom junk, get all of that out of there as well, right? >> And and add the sources. Yeah. So, if you add the sources, I I do believe that will count. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Yes. Yes, Stephen. Oh, >> I just wanted to make one comment. Uh, I love uh Vickiy's photo is that's being used as her Princess Leia uh today. So, I thought I'd just highlight my appreciation for that as I'm also wearing a Star Wars shirt as well. >> Okay, >> that's right. You're you're a Star Wars buff. I just watched The Mandalorian and >> Group Star Wars. >> Yeah. Yeah. here's $5. Go see a Star Wars. Uh >> well, yeah, cuz cuz there's always something cool that they have out or, you know, there's going to be another big film coming out next year for the 50th anniversary. >> Um >> this week is the 60th anniversary of Star Trek first being on TV. >> Right. Right. And this week was uh yeah, Live Long and Prosper. So I I'm not exclusively a Star Wars fan. Um, but I I I should say I'm a much bigger Star Wars fan than a Star Trek fan to be fair. >> Thank you, BJ. >> Yeah, >> but you got to check yourself before you wreck yourself. >> Yeah, that that's true. May the force be with you. Um, uh, let's also I I also have a hard time finding the right info in the Wiki Tree help menu, says Daniel Fry. Um, I've learned to ask clog to find the info. Now, you can also find it. Have you tried using the search function in in Wiki Tree? The Wiki Tree search, the advanced search down at the bottom. I if you've tried that. Oh, yes. Okay. And and it, you know, different strokes for different folks. Some people like to do Google because you can also Google it and and just put Wiki Tree in in that search in the Google search and and you should be able to find it that way too. So, uh wondering what link would re would you recommend for a beginner to start learning how you like the input done? >> Sounds like the wiki markup. Yeah, >> that would be the the links with the brackets. That would be the, you know, creating links to to profiles. Uh I'm assuming that's what Ann's referring to, uh formatting, uh sections, columns, etc. in line. >> Yeah. >> Well, are are you are you using the sourcer would be my first question. and >> source as in the source of the original data. >> The Wiki Tree sourcer. Are you using that tool? >> No. >> Oh, >> tell me about that. >> Okay. Well, uh, let me let me try to share here. >> I'll get the link. But I think I think Ann is referring to like just kind of the basic markup >> potentially. I mean >> when you say the input clarify please >> um name birth marriage death family. >> Okay. It's like the data points that just go onto a profile. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I don't know what you call them but that's what I'm talking about. >> David is coming into the waiting room. Wow. >> Possibly. >> Yeah. I just added them. >> All right. and and I'm sending you the uh in the chat I put the URI for um a program uh it's a it's an extension uh browser extension called the sourcer >> and the sourcer is a tool that you can use to collect sources from ancestry and and uh uh family search and other sites and and >> um can I I'm not looking for places to find sources I've been doing genealogy for 40 years. What I want is how you like my sources input that I have been collecting for 40 years because I learned about collecting sources um many years ago. >> And where where do you have how do you how have you collected your sources? Presumably you have them in stored somewhere. Um, I use Legacy Family Tree and since I got that I've started using their sourcing program, although I haven't actually gone back and put all of my original sources into them when I was using Path back in the day. I all of my sources went into the notes >> and I haven't transferred them into Legacy because uh I'm not going to live long enough to do that. But I do have all my sources and images of all the documents that I own. >> So, uh I just added a link to the primary help page for sources. I believe this breaks down uh the different types of sources and how to site them. Is that what you're looking for? >> Probably. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. If you scroll down, it it'll go through like web pages, books, headstones, census records, church records, family bibles, etc. So, I I believe that's going to be the page you're you're looking for in this situation. >> All right. Thank you very much, David. >> I can I can offer you another suggestion, Ann, which is um >> um one one one way to do things. I mean, you can go through the help pages and you can see um you know what the website suggests about how you write a profile, but but really um the maybe the best way which is is is like the best way that we find how to create web pages, which is to go look at a bunch and see what you think, right? And then decide how you're going to do yours. And so, um there's there's a way to randomly select profiles. Now, so you could jump around the tree as much as you want and go look at um uh people's profiles, >> right? >> Right. Or or you could go to the end of your your own profile and you'll see that there's every week there's a list of of profiles that are that are provided by Wiki Tree to say, you know, see about your connections to these people. >> Connection finder. >> So So you might want to go look at some of those profiles and see how they're organized. And um and you might also want to um uh visit on Saturday mornings. We do something called the the um the the Saturday roundup and Denise is is one of the co-hosts of that uh program and they do um what's it called Denise? It's the profile Oh profile makeover. >> Yes. >> So profile makeover is something that they do there. Now, there's lots of different approaches to writing uh biographies on on Wiki Tree, right? There's this there's the short and sweet uh uh biographies, and then there's the, you know, really elaborate and and uh you know, fully enriched uh biographies. And there's no strict rule about how you should write yours, right? You you got to figure out what what's going to work for you. Um, >> in my experience, I tend to, you know, I'm my my habit is to want to build out the tree. And so what I do is I I'll create a person's profile. I'll add sources and and give the, you know, birth, marriage, and death and censuses and what have you and and put that in and then move on to the next person. And and I may not, you know, really write a beautiful biography for that person. I may not do all that work until I get to the person that I really that I'm really concentrating on and then I might spend more time working on that biography. Now, the thing about Wiki Tree is somebody's going to come behind you and I I do this every day. I look at um I look at the the things that people have been doing and if I see the name Maloney, I'll go and see somebody added a Maloney uh or they edited a Maloney um profile, I'll go and look and see if maybe maybe that person doesn't have access to lots of sources and so maybe maybe it would be helpful for me to go and add sources to that profile. But I'll just, you know, I'll I'll pitch in and help and make that person's profile uh a little bit better with more sources and fill it in and then leave, you know, walk away and leave it to them. And so you'll find that um if if you do some work, somebody is very likely to come in behind you and add to your work and supplement your work. Does that >> Yeah. Does that help? >> Sounds totally fine. Yeah. Um the um are the Saturday morning things um are taped because your Saturday morning is the middle of my Saturday night or early Sunday morning and I'm not prepared to stay up that late. >> Yeah. >> Yes, they are. They're recorded on Zoom. >> Okay. >> Sorry. They're recorded on YouTube. >> Right. Okay. Thank you. I need to investigate that. But I also need more time in my life as I'm sure we all do. So yeah, if you just if you just type in YouTube and then Saturday roundup, you you'll see a lot of the previous programs and it's usually out there within oh a couple hours after we're done. >> Okay. >> Um actually it's it's almost immediately um that it's processed and put out there on YouTube at the end of the program. It it usually lasts about an hour and a half, sometimes two. Um, but it's recorded, so you can stop it and start it anytime you'd like. >> Um, you can fast forward to different because we have various segments, you know, we we we look at um there's the question of the week that that is covered and uh whatever that question of the week, which is always on G2G every week. So, that's covered. Um, as Murray said, there's a segment where one of the co-hosts um reviews profiles that have been improved. Um, then she calls it a profile makeover. Um, now Vicki is now going to start going through um profiles that have received that gold status. you know, that's the push now for us to get that gold status. So, she'll be reviewing some of those profiles that have the gold status. And you can just see, I mean, it it's not about the formatting with the gold status. It's about the data and and making sure you have all the necessary data um to make it a good profile. birth dates, death dates, um you you know the relationships, are they all documented accurately and and um got proper sources to validate those and things like that. So she goes through a lot of that. And then of course we have the connection checkers and and um my one of my co-hosts uh goes through those items that are listed at the bottom of your profile that you are connected to. These are featured profiles and we have new featured profiles every week of different notables depending on what the theme is for the week. like for this week the theme is um the War of 1812. So some of the folks that are listed there at the bottom were involved in um wartime activities. Yes, we can see you now, Steve. >> Yeah, sorry. >> That's that's okay. So those things and then uh my segment is behind the branches where I try to cover different things that are going on behind the branches in wiki tree the um the the various functional projects or any project activity like uh with the war of 1812 that's being sponsored by the military and war project. So for all things involved in military or wartime activity, um we'll be discussing I'll have Norman Jones as my guest. He's the project leader for that project and he'll just share you know what's involved with that project and um you know what it takes to join if anything. you know, depending on different projects like the profile improvement project, you know, you you've got to go through a voyage um to become a member of that project. And I can understand why because there's a lot of things to make profiles um worthy, you know, meeting those standards that we have. So, those are the types of things that are showing up there. So in addition to member Q&A and then of course AOEN and um Asia are now doing a a program where they're also assisting members and asking you to come if you have any questions. You know they can answer anything. AON and Asia can they can answer everything. Um, and then we've got the um, genealogical collaboration hour on Saturdays at 5:00 PM Eastern as well, so that anybody can join those. They don't even have to be Wiki Tree members if you just have questions about collaboration. So, we've got a lot of opportunities for you to come and ask questions and and hopefully get your answers. >> Brilliant. Thank you. >> Yeah, Ann, you had your hand up. Nope. >> Put your hand down. Okay. >> There there is another question in in chat for you guys. >> Oh, I I'm not seeing a question. >> I mean, it it was it was something that Daniel mentioned. We talked about random profiles. I put the link in for the browser extension that goes straight to that section on random profile. So, if you have the wiki tree browser extension installed, but you don't have that button toggled, >> uh you can toggle that and then it'll add it to your find uh section of your your drop down. >> So, that's a quick little way to just yeah float anywhere amongst the what 40 million profiles we have now. As long as they're open, you know, they're not private profiles. stuck at >> we're up to 46 46 million. >> I said 40 million or so was rounding. >> Yeah, it's awesome. Lorraine, you had a question. >> I this my menu on on my profile. I don't have anything under it. What do you usually put under your my profile? I mean my menu. What What's that useful for? Well, if you it you know often there are there are things that you want to remember how to get back to. >> Oh, >> uh under my menu I have a link to the family activity feed. So that's this section right where I can look at uh changes that have happened in my watch list. I can get the thanks and surnames and followed, right? So that's the that's the family activity feed and that's one of the first things I look at every day. and then uh the G2G feed. So I can quickly jump to to G2G and then pending merges. Now once you've been here on on on Wikree for a while, you'll you'll run across profiles where there's more than one. In fact, maybe you'll create one and you'll say, "Oh no, I created a duplicate. What am I going to do?" Well, you initiate a merge, right? So this is so jumping to the pending merges. I can quickly well maybe not so quickly because my internet connection isn't that fast but see I can get a list of the merges. So pending merges initiated by me. And there we go. And it turns out that there are there are three uh merges that are waiting to be approved. I've approved of them, but um but the the other person hasn't. And so um well, for this one anyway. And then for these ones, the other people need to approve them. Now, what happens is after a month, if they haven't been approved, I can go ahead and merge them anyway because they had their chance to um to argue about it. And then so then there's that. And then uh I can look at requests, suggestions. I can jump to my watch list. I can go to um category. I I've got I've got just got a whole bunch of things here that I've added links so that I can quickly jump to. For example, here's the manual for the F chart app. >> Right now, so the way that I the way that you work with this is you click on that >> and it opens this. >> Yep. It opens this up. >> Really adding shortcuts for yourself, isn't it? >> Exactly. >> Yes. Okay. Cuz I didn't gather that because I just didn't know and I clicked on that >> wheel and I wasn't sure what I was supposed to do with that. So I can go through and do the things I like to go to all the time and and not have to search for where I found it. >> Exactly. >> Especially if you find that you you're having difficulty remembering what menu something's under. >> I do. >> Yeah. Me too. And so you you go through here over here on this side. >> You can see that these are all the men. >> This page right there too. >> Yeah. >> You and and so you can just click on one of these and it'll it'll pop up over here. >> And then >> you can grab one like that and move it up in the list for example. >> Oh, so you can put it in priority order for what you want. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> So you can make it do make it how you want it because it after all it is your menu, >> right? And then if you if you want to um you can add a link and uh add some text to describe that link and and and pop that in. So that's how I got for example the link to the um what was the thing I just jumped to? Oh yeah, the fan chart. >> The fan chart. >> Oh, I just lost that because I clicked on it the wrong time. Okay. Okay. Anyway, I can fix I can fix that later. Um, but yeah, so that's that's that's my menu. >> Uh, someone was asking, "How do I get to my menu?" >> We were just doing that, but how do you get there? >> No, >> they're wondering. Yeah, they're wondering why they don't have it on their screen, right? >> Um, so so that's a that's a web browser extension feature. >> So, have who who asked? >> It looks like Nancy. >> Me. Nancy, >> Nancy, have you installed the web browser extension yet? >> The Wiki Tree web browser. Yes. >> Okay. So, no. Yeah, the Wiki Tree browser extension. So, let me just go show you. >> So, so you'll typically go here and open that up. Can you get that menu? There it is. My menu. So, uh it's under navigation, I guess. Yeah, under navigation. Thank you. >> And so you can just turn that on and then that'll appear at the top there on the right. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I've been saving I've been saving all my links on in like my on Safari on my notes or on my iPad. I built a folder for all of them. >> This is what I need. Thank you. And and the other thing you may not I don't know if you know about the I don't know if you know about the clipboard. >> Yep. I found out about clipboard and notes a couple weeks ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's another place where you can save stuff. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Good. >> And we've got another question here. How do I add profiles I've created to the US Black Heritage connecting challenge? >> So let me uh share my screen right quick to walk you through that. Uh basically whenever you add a profile um let let me just pick one. Um when when you add a profile once you do that you'll have a menu up top. So if you're participating in the community challenges, you can go right to the challenge tracker and then you select here USBH connecting challenge. So you click that and then you have an option here of what you have done. Was it a new profile that you created? Uh was it an enslaved ancestors profile that was created? Um, did you create a profile from the list of needs profiles created? There's a USBH managed category there. If you've created a profile from that list, you can use this one. And then the other family created from the 1880 census because a lot of work that we're doing is around the 1880 census. So when you add those profiles and you create the famil family's family members, you can also select that as your connecting challenge. So once you select that and you say um um you you select this option, put it here and then add point. And so as you'll see, there's folks that have been making additions to that. The little change I made, that wasn't a challenge. It wasn't a connection, so I didn't do a connection, but it's got to be someone a profile that you're adding to another family member that's already out there in Wiki Tree to use that. Okay, so hopefully that helps. And usually to go back to where I was, I just click on on the the ID up at the top and that takes you back to that profile. So, if you wanted to add more family members, you could do that. >> Now, Denise question, is there a way to access that uh challenge page without that little query popping up? >> Yes. Um, very good question. Thank you, Steve. Um, the same thing. If there are some people that I added and I I I wasn't sure if I did my tracker, you can go to their profile and you'll see that challenge tracker is in that list in the drop list right up under the name of that profile and you go there and that takes you right back to that tracker. >> Great. So, and as you can see, it's not just USBH, but any of these other projects that that you're involved in. If you're doing link builders or you're in the Missouri project or there there's a lot of different projects. This list isn't as long as it was back uh last month. It's a shorter list right now, but there Yeah, there there's a lot of different projects that have challenges going on right now. I've been around for seven years and there's still things that you guys come up with that I've never heard of before. >> Yeah. >> Yep. Same here. >> Magoo is asking >> is asking if somebody could show the Wicked Cree sorcerer. >> Oh yeah, >> maybe you'd like to do that, Denise. >> Sure, I can do that. I I've been Yeah, I I've been in Instead of working on my own family, I that's what I've been doing uh for the past several months is just cleaning up profiles and and adding things uh for other people. But uh let's say for example, I can go down here to this this profile. Um here's one I use. Ancestry. It's just a personal preference for me. Sometimes I go to family search, but I do more work in ancestry than I do in family search. So like for this person, James Knight, um I just recently added his profile. Um there's his profile there. And it looks like uh I also just recently added his spouse and there's one of his children. But if I go back to him in ancestry, >> there's that's this guy here. >> Looks like he was in the 1880 census. So, he's one of those additions then. >> Uh well, in in in my case, I just do US Black Heritage. I don't try to check off all those different boxes, but >> Right. Of course. >> Yeah. I I could have, but I I just did the USBH connection challenge. That That was good enough for me. Um, so now he's they they've got a number of children. Here's his wife. Let me move you guys out of the way to see if I I don't think I did. Amanda. Um, >> here's his Yeah, here. Here's his wife, Amanda. So, I'm I'm going to go to Amanda now because I want to add her profile here to Wiki Tree. Um, it looks like now typically I go through my hints first and make sure I've got all my data, but for the sake of time, I'm just going to pretend like everything is already there. I can make those updates later. But um as you can see, she's got an 1880 census, a newspaper obituary, and then her social security application. Um I'm going to uh click on my sourcer and I'm going to save person data. >> She died in 1904 before social security was a thing. It's got to be a >> daughter. It Yeah, it it probably belongs to a child. >> Yeah. >> But um now I'm going to go up here to James. And this was Who was this? Was this a spouse? >> Yeah. >> His father's. It was his mother, actually. >> Oh, his mother. Yeah. So, I'm I'm going to add his mother. Yeah, there there's two James's, father and son. So I I I'm gonna now add the mother and leave it to create a new profile for his mother. When I click continue, then I'll go back to my sourcer and you see her information has been collected. So the fields from the person data. So everything that I had there in ancestry for this person is now populated here. So it's got her first name. Here's her nickname that I had listed in quotes, Mandy, and then her last name is Edwards. Um, and I made that nickname in quotes like that because there were some documents that showed her listed as Mandy versus Amanda on some of the other records that I was looking at. So there's her maiden name, last name at birth, Edwards, and of course her married name. So it's populating all of that. Now her birth date, all I had in ancestry was 1845. So that automatically gets populated as an estimated or uncertain year because it could have been some other time frame. And then that she was born in Georgia. Now, not everyone likes to click on these radio buttons, but I do so that I know I know for sure that she was born in Georgia, but that's about all I know for certain in terms of her birth. And then um here's her death information. And if you ask me how I know that, it's because I did look at other records before I did this. So I I'm I'm sort of shortcutting for you guys here. But there were some other records that I did look at before. >> Um and like I said, typically if there's hints, I will go through those hints and um get additional information if I can. >> I think it's important just to Oh, >> yeah. Go ahead, Steve. I was going to say it's just important to to not make assumptions of course like you definitely want to look at some sources and make sure that the data that you're pulling from these other external sites is accurate you know as you're going to be citing this information you know once the profile is actually created. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, >> and and often times back in these years, you you know, it it's there's not a lot of documentation to verify what year she was born in. So, you just have to in in that case, that's where making some notes, research notes on the profile would come in handy. Yeah, Murray. Well, I just want to I just want to amplify on what Stephen just said because today I was working on a profile and I found a birth record and I went and popped it in and then I took a closer look at it and it was a birth record for the person with the exact same name, exact same parents who had died >> and the the child had achieved the age of 9 years old and Then after she died, her younger sister was born and given the same name. >> Yeah, that happens. >> And so, so here I was. I was going to put that birth record in for for for the person who was born later and it was the wrong it was the wrong birth record. >> You definitely have to check. >> Yep. >> So, here I am. This is where I added that information. I've got Amanda. I've got her her nickname. Um, I've got her maiden name. And so now Wiki Tree is comparing that information against what's already out there in the database. >> Doesn't look like any matches here. >> Correct. There's no matches. Now, just for the new folks that are here, if there was a match and I had data, first of all, I would look at the profile and and then like in this case, I would look at Amanda's profile. Oh, look at there. There's nothing there. So all of the information I'm pulling in, I would be able to actually merge it with this existing profile if this was the right profile. So that's what that other green button is for where it says send to merge. I've got that set up so that if if this were the right Amanda, I could go ahead and say send to merge and it would merge the data that's already there on the existing profile with what I have pulled in from the ancestry profile that I have created with the research. Okay, so that would have made it a lot easier. But from this one, we can tell because none of the locations match for this. None of these say that right >> her birthplace was Georgia. >> The only partial match is United States and that's not >> matching the state. So, >> Exactly. Exactly. And of course, none of the names are exactly the same either. >> This one would have been the only possible option and she was Michigan. She was a long ways away from Georgia. So, that's not her. >> Before you change from that, >> sorry. >> Yeah. Well, not one. How do you make those so that they're not the right ones? So you never look at it again. >> Reject them. >> Yeah. Yeah. But but there was no reject on that screen and I could see. >> Oh. Oh, I see. >> Said a rejected match. >> Oh, okay. It's just little I can't see it. I need to wear glasses. Yes. Okay, good. >> Yeah. >> That's it was like really close. >> Yeah. The thing is that I wanted to ask about that is because sometimes I was doing ones and I didn't set it as a rejected match and so keeps coming up and telling me that that this is a match. >> I know it is. And so the thing is that I learned from that is that if these are not matches to definitely reject it. >> Well, I don't because Amanda is a fairly common name uh especially amongst the black community. Amanda and Mandy are are very common names. And of course, these other surnames are very common as well. So, I just don't reject them right off the bat. >> Yes. But I'm saying once you determine it's not the one you want, you would definitely always mark it as rejected. >> Well, I just I just click here that say none of these is a match. >> Boom. And that takes me to the next page, Steve. >> So, I used to do that. I actually started and I was selecting rejected matches and then they all popped up at the bottom of the profile. I'm like why does this profile have like you know 15 20 different rejected matches and it was I didn't need to select all of them because they were so different. What I wanted to select was if it was really close if it was close enough to be confused with the profile that I was working on. >> That's the one I need to select is rejected match. So it just shows up, you know, one, two, maybe three that are really close to each other. These other ones are so far removed because the states don't even match, >> right? >> That we we don't want to throw them into the bottom of the profile. There's there's no point because we know that they're different enough. Does that make more sense? I think it was Zoo that was talking. >> Mhm. >> Okay. Does that make more sense? >> That was Lorraine. That was Lorraine. >> Sorry, Lorraine. So this is just an error for for Wiki Tree that it gives you so many choices that are so wrong. >> I mean it's it's it's doing its job as best as it can based on the information it's given, right? It kind of starts with humans and then it's trying to interpret all that data and compare it against itself. So I mean I'm glad we at least have some kind of comparison analysis or else we'd be making uh duplicates every day, right? we didn't have that at all. Um, but of course it's not perfect. It's obviously not perfect. So that's where it needs the human eye to make that discernment to to make that distinction between them. And if they're really close, then that's where we want to say, okay, I'm going to reject this match because somebody else might come along and try to make this profile again. Let's tell them it's not this guy or this person. >> Okay? Because it was getting confusing to me because I re I was rejecting some of them. I thought I need to reject all these 15 or whatever it was. And then I was thinking, oh my goodness. >> But you don't because as long as you say none of these match. >> Yeah. As long as you say none of these is matched, then they just go away. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Because if you ever research someone named John Smith, you're going to get a couple pages of close batches that you're going to have to rech. So >> yeah, >> you don't need to go through every one of them. >> Yeah. I mean, in those cases, if you're dealing with super common names, Yeah. I can imagine how hard >> it can get pretty silly at times. >> Yeah. I'm just dealing with Germans. >> Yeah. >> Well, thanks for my explanation because I I wasn't doing that as correctly as I should have. So, that helps me a lot. Thank you. >> Sure. And no problem. >> You want to say something? >> And did you want to say something? >> Ann, >> yes. Um, this is from Murray, I think. Um, I'm helping I'm helping Justin York with the challenge of of the week and he has both Ancestry and Family Search trees and they are beautiful trees and they're very sourced. So, I'm I'm adding them to Wiki Tree. The only problem is that when I go into source and when I go to uh personal data and then switch it to a wiki tree, it's not giving me any information. It's not bringing in all the information that it consumes from ancestry to or family search to wiki tree. I three three times I tried and what I've been doing is I'm going doing the long way. What I've been doing is that I'm going the it does put in the name and the birth date and that part, but below in the bio there's nothing. So, what I had to do is I'd go back to the profile, go to sources included and then I added, you know, from there, but it's like two two steps. I only could do one. So that that happens to me occasionally. >> Okay. >> Um and and and there's two things I would suggest. One is um to restart your browser. >> Yeah. >> Very often the the browser just gets confused at a certain point after you've done so much work. >> Okay. >> And if if you if you don't restart your browser once a week, I recommend that you should do that at least once a week. >> Okay. >> If not if not daily. >> Right. And it just because because the browser cache gets confused. >> Yeah, the browser cache clear the cache out. >> Ah, yeah. Thank Okay. Thanks a lot. >> So that that's that's the first thing I'd suggest. The second thing I would suggest is if if it's still not working, >> then you want to send a note to Rob, >> right? Right. >> And I know that you know how to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Um Denise, >> yeah. I I wonder I wonder if you could go back to that ancestry profile because I would like to show Magoo a trick. I've shown I've shown this before but I'm going to show it again. So go to the press the search on ancestry button. >> Okay. And and so this is tying in the MCU's question here. Then uh after records are verified move wik tree then does wik tree sourcer correct the create the correct format question mark for the sources? I wanted you to do Oh, okay. You did it. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So, here we've we've done So, so imagine you're you're you're looking for information on a person and you've you've got maybe an ancestry profile, but you've only got one or two sources and you figure there must be more out there. So, you do a search and you find you get this this result. Okay? And you can see on the right hand side there's a find a grave and there's newspapers.com. There's blah blah blah. Okay? There's different things. now. But I want you to ignore that for now and just move your cursor down just a little bit and click on family trees. >> Yeah. Click on that. >> Click click on what? >> Family trees. Oh, that's my cursor. Okay. Over Sorry. Over on the left under filters. >> Okay. >> Over on the left. >> Yeah. Very bottom of filters. Yeah. >> Yeah. Family trees. Click on that. I was seeing my cursor and thinking it was yours. Okay. So, here we can here we can see that there are 47 trees for Amanda Edwards. Okay. So, click on that 47 and there's the list and you can see that the at the top of the list that one has five records. >> The next one has five records. The next one has three records. Okay. and and and and if I'm not mistaken, I think that this is generally arranged by how many records there are. So, we're going to assume that the one at the top of the list is got the most records, got the most complete records. So, go ahead and click on Amanda Mandy Edwards on the top one. >> Records being different sources. >> Yep, there we go. Okay. So, somebody has done some work here and they've added records to the profile. Now, >> taking David's warning into consideration, we want to make sure that these particular items are in fact related to the same person that we're thinking of. But I'm going to I'm going to tell you to do things a little bit differently than than than David might have suggested. Rather than verify everything here before I copy it over, I'm just going to copy it over. Then once I've got it over there, then I can go through and edit and figure out what I want. So So go to the go to your your your sourcer button and select um Yep. build all citations. Oh, >> is that person or or citations? That >> that was save person data. You want me to build all cit all citations? Yeah. >> Okay. >> I've got the five citations. Now you can go to the wicked tree profile that you were building. >> One was excluded because one just references another family tree. So at least it took that out. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah. The records here. >> Okay. So what what what sourcer does is for each of these records, it's going to read it and it's going to follow the instructions that you've given it in the options about how to how to write a citation and how to write a um a narrative. And is this the one that you just made? >> No. Uhuh. >> No. >> No. That was the false positive. >> You passed it. >> Yeah. Let me let me >> It'll need work, but no, it's not the Amanda she was working on. Where? Where? Where? Where? >> Maybe just go to James Knight and then click uh through him to get to her. >> Well, she was >> You created her, right? >> She She was in edit. >> There she is. >> Oh, there it is. Edit mother still. Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm gonna >> finish creating it. >> No, I was still in the process of creating it. >> Okay. So now you can go and and you you can um right after the Amanda Edwards was born in you can you can put in a couple of blank lines. >> Well, let me let me create it first because I I still haven't created that profile. >> Okay, now I'll go down to edit. >> Can we see the profile first just so we know what your your final product was? Oh, you want me to uh >> Yeah, outside of edit dog, right? >> Yeah, because she's Africanamean, I always add my stickers. So, give me a minute here. >> Don't mess with Denise. She's got her plan in place. >> And then I I also do an auto category so it populates all the categories it needs to based on what's here now. Okay. So, we've got this. And you want me to go ahead and add? >> Yeah. Just put a couple of blank lines because because the two the sources that you already have in there >> Uhhuh. >> are going to be duplicated by what we just copied, right? >> Yep, they will. >> Okay. So, go ahead and paste them in. Okay. Now, now do a preview. Okay. So, we've got we've got a census. We've got another census. >> We got the 1870, the 1880, the 1900. >> Is this the right 80 again? It's the same Mandy. Yeah. >> How How did she become Mandy Clayton? >> Oh, wrong person. >> Well, but this see this came from that other tree. Okay, >> that's why she's also a different race. >> Yeah. Census on ancestry. >> She She's a different race. >> Yep. >> Just delete the whole bit. >> Yeah. And this this came from that other tree >> that that we pulled from because I didn't have 1900. I only had 1880. >> Right. >> Yeah. Any anyway, the point the point of the exercise was to show you that if you if you maybe have a bare bones profile on Ancestry or Family Search, >> you can then do a a subsequent search, you can ask whether there's lots of trees that have already been done by people on Ancestry. You can go find the one that has the most sources. Mhm. >> You can then copy those sources, bring them back, and then take a look and see which ones belong here and which ones don't and edit as appropriate, and then you end up with a richer um richer result. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Really quick. >> So, yeah, this this 1900 I'mma take out. >> Yes. >> So, quick question. I mean, obviously, we are focusing on making Wiki Tree the best place that it can be. family. >> We go back to family search or ancestry and we find that stuff is wrong and stuff needs to be removed and stuff needs to be fixed. We're still going back and trying to do that to help genealogologists in general, right? So that they don't continue to make bad genealogy on that side and bring it back to Wikry again or or are we just kind of walking away from it? >> Well, you know, it it depends on who we are >> in in your case. In your case, I believe that what that's what you do. You you you go and clean up. Um I don't >> I I don't try to edit Family Search. Um I I I I think I tried to do that for a week and then gave up on it. Um and certainly I never tried to edit on on Ancestry other people's >> tra. Yeah. Yeah. So that that's impossible task, right? And there's and there's no and there's no point in in saying you made the mistake >> because they don't have community built up that'll nobody may respond and try to fix it. It just it might stick like that. >> Yeah. >> For eternity. Um so yeah, we we try to do the best we can on our side, right? We stiffer the information. We find the records. We don't reference trees and then we make our profiles look as best as possible. So that when someone's searching on a search engine, they come across our profile, they get the more accurate information, it goes from there. Yeah, Wicked Tree. But Steve, can I can I elaborate on what you just said because I think you >> Well, yeah, of course you could say it so much better words. Well, there's it's it's not so much um what you just said, but elaborating on that. I don't know how many people are brand new in this session right now, but um with Steve says, we do the best we can. And I think that's real important that the best you can as a new person may not be the best that somebody can that's been here five, six, seven, 10 years. >> You don't have to be perfect. Um, the one thing we really want you to strive for is not to put bad information on a profile. But if you can't write a great narrative, if you get your um, you don't know how to do the sources exactly right, >> do the best you can. And the way and the way I look at it is if if you have information on my great great-grandfather and you put it on um I don't I'm not as worried about your formatting as I am about the fact that you get that information out there so that I can have it. So um you know put it out there however you can do it and then over time you'll learn about the formatting of what Wiki Tree prefers and doesn't prefer. But I think sometimes um that isn't made clear to newer members that you don't have to worry about all the all the um you know commas and periods and everything being exactly the right place. Just do the best you can and I think Murray mentioned it earlier. Somebody will come along later on and clean it up for you if if you can't um if you're not sure what you know it needs to be done. to underscore what David just said, let me just say that a lot of people uh suffer from stress over trying to get it just right. And and and because of that stress, they end up not doing much at all because they're afraid that somebody's going to, you know, wag their fingers and say, "Oh, you did it wrong." Well, you know, you do what you can. Somebody's going to come along behind you and fix it. If somebody wags their finger at you, think of something polite and smart to say back to them and continue on with your day. Okay? You don't need to worry about that because there's no need for anybody to be mean to you. You just do the best that you can. >> True. Very true. >> Yeah. I mean, the spirit is still collaboration, right? We want to collaborate with our fellow genealogologists. We want to work together as a team. We don't want to gatekeep, you know, we want to have accurate information that people, multiple people can access because they may be sharing that common ancestor with you, right? That might be their common ancestor as well as it is theirs. >> Yeah. >> Uh and and a thing to reinforce is that this is all one world tree and we're all connected. >> That's right. >> And we actually have whole teams of people that do just that. the sourcers that go through and add or clean up people's sourcing or bio biob buildilders that improve up narratives and >> we we got people that'll just um spend their afternoon going and fixing other people's profiles. So that's that's what we do. >> And then there's those profiles that just never seem to get any sources on them and I wonder if they're even real people. It's like like we still have a million unsourced profiles as it currently stands. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I have say one thing that I love on sorcerer is that a lot of people do not have ancestry don't have family search, which is what the key mostly people will do on a profile. What I do is that I find a source on ancestry which I love and um I look to see if that ex uh exact record is on family search >> and it is then I click on it and then I add that and take away the uh ancestry one. So so people will look at them both but sometimes that research is not doing too well right now. So, I'm I'm I'm doing both. >> Let's do that. Let's let's uh go to your first uh the 1870 ancestry record, >> right? >> And let's focus on maybe a non-paywall option then. >> Yes. >> Well, no, I want to follow up with what what Ann just suggested. So, here we have a 1970 census. Now, I want you to go to sorcerer >> and ask it to find the same census on Family Search. So just say search family search. There you go. So what if you're looking at a record that's from Ancestry or from somewhere else, you can then say, "Oh, please find this on Family Search." And and it'll give you the same source. >> What the heck? >> I know. My my my computer does that sometimes. >> Well, that's new. >> Yeah. Uh oh. >> Oh, I see. To autogenerate. Okay, that's your authenticator. >> Yeah, mine. >> Yep. Got to log in to Family Search again. >> Yep. >> Okay, so there it is. Is that Is that the Have we got the right Mandy? >> Oh, yeah. She was in Alabama and she was born in Georgia. >> Okay. So, let's click on her. >> Still curious as to how she ended up in Massachusetts. They they migrated and >> part of the great see you know if there's you know a tree and they >> interesting how it's identifying her race in this one. Is that accurate to this person? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. The only thing I like about ancestry is from family family search is that it gives me more details like it shows me the addresses and a couple other details that the family search doesn't. >> Well, also the other thing is that you know some people don't have access to ancestry. >> Right. >> Right. So, so if you can show the family search version of the source, then you know at some point in the future when somebody else wants to follow up on what you've done and make sure that you know you got everything right and you know maybe maybe they want to get more information out of it, they can go to the place where it'll continue to exist. We don't know that it'll continue to exist on Ancestry or we don't know that everybody will always be able to access it on Ancestry. >> Okay. >> Right. So >> yeah, and also Rob showed me another way of doing it which is a lot easier. Uh um Denise, go back to the record again. >> I I'm I'm on the record. You mean an ancestry? >> Yeah. Okay. Go back to the the 1870 census. Click on that. Okay. and >> view record >> and you you record >> multiple ways to do things. It's kind of what we talked about today, >> right? And and go up to uh sorcerer and then go slowly to uh no go up to sorcerer again, please. Right. And then click on that. And very slowly on Family Search there is like a a an arrow >> an arrow an arrow over to the right. >> An arrow to the >> right. Right. Click on that >> and you can see see record. It go it go straight to that record instead of looking to everything else. >> Yeah. >> Click on that selection for the same record. saves you. It >> saves you a big step and it's it's right there. >> It eliminated all the other options. >> Yeah, right. >> That's what I got from Rob from using all that tech >> and it does the year range to pull up the the thing instead of being so exact. >> So, that's more likely to hit it. And for anybody that's new, I just want to point out her husband James >> is on Wiki Tree. So there's a little indicator for it. >> This record has already been added to Wiki Tree. So there's the reference number. I'll make it bigger. So there's their family search record number and the profile ID which indicates his profile is already on wiki tree which bingo there it is. >> Is that work only family search or is there anything similar on ancestry? It's similar on an well on on on ancestry I have to put in that wiki tree ID and I have to do a link builders to make that connection as well. >> Okay. >> Yeah. At least the interfering webs between family search and wiki tree are becoming stronger now. We're able to point to the profiles that we're referencing. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, like if I go to the one I had, um, of course I I just added her, so it it's not going to be there yet. It's like an overnight process. >> Oh, that's the post office. >> But if I go back to her profile, >> I I think some of these Nope, I haven't done those yet. So, none of those. >> But they all have that grayed out symbol that would turn yellow, I presume. >> Yeah, it's grayed out because see up here at the top, >> that's where I would copy and paste her wiki their wiki tree ID. Um, I'm not going to do it. This isn't my tree, so I'm not going to do it on this tree. But on >> But that's a function of of wiki tree B, not not of sorcerer. >> Correct. Okay. >> Right. The B is doing a search uh for all profiles in real time and making the determination if they exist on our site or not. >> Correct. Yeah. >> Which can speed up the research process. At least you'll know they didn't already add it. >> Whereas whereas the icon that you saw on Family Search, the orange icon, that was that was that was Sorcerer doing that. >> Yes. And then what's the one that has the icons pop up on Find a Grave? Is that Sorcerer? >> That's also actually Yes, that's Sorcerer. Um uh um B used to also do that, but now now that Sorcerer does it, B doesn't do it anymore. >> Right. Right. B is phasing out in favor of uh Sorcerer is what it looks like. Well, I I had a I had a find a grave thing here, but I don't now. >> Ann also has a question. Should we answer that? >> Yeah. What you got, Ann? >> She says, "I am I right in thinking that you are only quoting online sources because it is easier to show slashfind. You do also have offline sources and profiles. Are offline sources just harder slower to add?" >> Yes. Yeah, we're showing you how to do the easy stuff. Um, what's available online so that you can you can get um you can get profiles built. But yes, of course, there are there are sources that aren't online yet or maybe never will be online, right? Um, you know, for example, I've got a copy of a book which is the register for the uh for a church at Sillery Quebec. this in ancillary Quebec is the first um uh first native what what what we what we kindly call a reservation today but it was the first reservation um as far as I know in North America and it was just outside the walls of of Quebec City um and uh it has birth records >> from the early 1600s until around 16 90 I think um and and those records are not um you know available on ancestry they're not available on Family Search, etc. So, um, so, you know, I I will often have to go to that book and, you know, find the source and extract the information and build the source manually. That's that's more work. >> If you go to the if you go to the profile for George Washington or any of the early presidents, you can see how we've added non offline sources in the source sections. Uh also I can add to that if you look at any German profile from certain parts of Germany. Okay, not any German profile, but there's a fair number of them where we have these things called or familian busher or family books and and uh the OFBs appear on a German site. So, we can site them that way. But a lot of the people in Germany actually that that are doing research here in Wikree own the books. So, they're citing the books from their physical copies that they're able to go through and that's how we're citing the information uh on Wiki Tree. I just want to bring that up as another alternative for how we're using physical items. >> And of course, family Bibles, right? And people people often use family Bibles as a citation. >> Yeah. So the these are like church books basically, you know, the ones in Germany. >> And you'd otherwise have to go to the church itself to to access them, but they printed some stuff off. >> Is is there a different way of adding offline sources? I I get that type in manually. It could um that link earlier I left should talk about how to make them look. >> There's two things you'll see here on the sources. >> Sorry, I can go I can repost it. I'm going back for it. >> Almost none of these sources come from Ancestry or Family Search because George Washington's records are too early for for most of that. So you'll see even the online sort those sources with links are to um various archives, the White House archives or the National Archives um Mount Vernon archives. Um but then there's also a whole series of um towards the very bottom of the list. Okay. >> So now we we clicked we lost it. Where did he go? >> I did repost at least in the chat that link to the help page for sources. So again, if you want to look to see how books are cited, websites, you know, family bibles, it goes through all of those different formats >> as suggestions. So if you scroll down further, so here you'll see in the in the bold are different um record depositories that we use to site, but again none of them are ancestry or family search. Um it's National Park Service, Mount Vernon, etc. But if you go all the way to the bottom, you'll see >> list of of books and other sources that that we've used that are not online necessarily. >> Uh the recommended reading And so like if you look up just at the top of this page, you'll see Robert's Gary Void and it lists the the book Ancestors of American Presidents. We didn't have that online. It's a print version that that somebody used. So that just has to be typed in by hand and formatted. and and um you know you will find that as you start creating citations for books and and other sources that you will you will see that that people have thoughts about how you should do that and um you know there there's there's obviously lots of different formats for citing a book you know there's AAP style and CMOS and what have you use the style that you're most familiar Don't worry about other people's thoughts about how how it should be done because of course in the in the world of citation people have thoughts. Um but you know what what's most important is that we get a citation in not it's not as important what style it is. >> So if it's a if it's a if it's a discernable citation >> and and and the average person can be expected to understand the citation and follow it go for it. I have a question for you, Murray. Are you a Chicago style guy or an MLA guy? >> MLA. >> I I actually tend towards Seamos. >> So, everybody's different. >> Yeah, >> that that's great. Thank you for that. >> Well, that is the diversity wiki tree. Uh >> hope hopefully that answered the question on sources. >> Um I think the the uh again the whole point or uh what was the moral of this uh story today is that there are multiple ways to find information >> and we just demonstrated that a couple of times today. So it's been exciting learning >> and multiple ways to present your information. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. something about skinning cats. I think >> I I'd just like to ask one question about this document I found. Thank you. Um it says that it was one of a kind and it also says um if any person finding the same document as this as requested to forward it as an un in an unstamped envelope to the director of records. Is that from a long time ago? It it says to send it to Ottawa, but this is my uncle's. What what kind of record is it? >> It's a discharge certificate and it feels like material actually. It's like waterproof in those days. In 1946 he was discharged second world war like a dollar bill like it's made of threads and fibers >> thicker >> and so and so what you're saying that >> if if the document is found it should be sent >> and I think what they're saying is um you know if if this document should be found and it's not found in your drawer in other words it's found on the street >> or found in some random place >> please send it back to us because we'd like to have it, but if it if it's yours, if it's in your drawer or your your police, then you should hang on to it because obviously you went to a lot of trouble to get it >> and it's a geological document for your research. >> One of a kind. So, >> am I allowed to take a photo of it and share it on Wiki Tree or as >> it's a government document. So, yes, it's not copyright. >> Okay, thank you. Sorry, is that a question? >> No, that's a good question. And you you can scan it if you've got a scanner, you can scan it in or you can take a picture of it and and uh upload it to Wiki Tree. And I've got a social insurance and in hospital insurance and is that documents to prove that he was in the army that I guess aren't but >> social insurance. It is >> a social insurance number is the equivalent of a social security number. >> So you can use this and take pictures of it. >> Yes. It's not copyrighted. If if as long as the person is is expired. >> Oh yes. >> Then you you can make a copy of it. >> Um if the person is still living then then you you would expect you would >> you would protect their privacy. Yeah. >> Yes. >> 74. >> Sorry. Sorry, I was just gonna ask really quick. So Murray, we're talking about of works of a federal government, not lower than that. If it's a city government, state government, we're talking about documents that like birth records, things that they don't want people to distribute. That's a different wheelhouse that we're talking about, right? But like the US census is a form of the US government, is a document of the US government. So that should not be copyritten and that can be widely distributed as a historical document. >> A birth record isn't copyright, >> there's other issues with distributing those depending on >> privacy. There's privacy issues. >> Right. Right. >> Right. But but as far but as far as copyright goes >> if if it was issued by a government >> well at least >> in in the United States >> any any document issued by the government is non-copyright >> by the federal government >> like like the US federal level like like once it starts getting to states once it starts getting to cities it gets a little hazy and and I try not to push the limit you know because like in Wisconsin if I try to if I took a photo of a birth certificate, even if a person was dead, they might still say you can't redistribute this. You can't make a copy of this and put it on the internet. That would be going against state statute. So, that's where I'm concerned that, you know, those toes could be stepped on. >> But if it's like a US I I suppose that there could be state statutes about such things, but I'm talking specifically about copyright, >> right? And my understanding about the way the copyright works is that if a government produced the document >> Yeah. >> then then the people of that you know under under their jurisdiction paid for that document. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Like NASA takes a photo of a galaxy that photo is in the public domain because it's a work at the form of the government. Well, even photos of people with the notables, if it's a a NASA photograph of an astronaut, >> right, >> it's not copyrighted because NASA produced it. Well, but if it's a government or um >> Bob Hope at a USO >> performance >> taken by by a soldier or a government employee is not going to be copyrighted because it was created by a government a but if a private photographer took a photo of Bob Hope, you'd have to wait for that person to be dead for x number of years before you could even decide to use it. Well, you'd have to wait till it the copyright would expire after 75 years or whatever. >> 75 years after their death. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> taken after right now it's 1931 because it's taken before 1931. It's not copyrighted. >> Right. There's those rules. Yeah. So, so you just hope the government got a photo of them then. >> Yeah. Well, that's what we do at Norwell. We look for government photos. That's >> right. There's no question. Thank you for showing up and sticking around. everything. >> Thank you for joining us >> and and staying with us and a lot of good conversation I think we had >> and as I anticipated I learned new things that I didn't know before. So >> awesome. Awesome. >> Thank you for being here Dave. >> Thank you everybody so much. >> It was great to have you with us today and we hope you'll join us again. We hold these sessions every second Thursday evening and fourth Sunday morning of the month. That's United States Eastern time. You can always find the full details on the member Q&A via Zoom free space page. Or follow the new members tag so that you are sure to see our monthly post in G2G. In the meantime, see you in the branches.