Meet The Unemployed Investor Making $10 Million Dollars

welcome back to the 69th ever episode of the iced coffee podcast my name is ask sebi and the podcast has made a hundred and nine thousand dollars and five hundred dollars that's great what an intro we're gonna go with it welcome to the iced coffee hour we're really excited to have you on here i don't believe you do too many podcasts do you no not at all is this your first one first podcast is there a reason why you don't do so many podcasts are you hiding i don't know i just don't think i've been invited to podcast because people don't i'm not that interesting you know what the surprising thing i think with you is that uh i knew you from your credit card videos on youtube but then once i started talking to you i realized like wow this is just the tip of the iceberg of what you do like the credit card thing i think i think if we have a big like bubble basically the the credit card stuff is like one little bit and then you get into all the intricacies of like what you do on the side i think all of your side businesses and the side investments that you're doing are way more like interesting than credit card stuff like tenfold it's actually pretty unique i would love for you to introduce yourself to the audience for those that don't know you like where did this start give us a bit of like an overview of what you say you do some of the startups you're involved in the businesses that you run and just we got to have a good hook 20 seconds what's the hook so i used to work in finance ended up moving into the startup world started a company that raised money died started another company that raised money got acquired jumped around a few different startups started angel investing and before angel investing started youtube actually mostly because i figured that content creation will be the future for a lot of people and the whole creator economy idea so by working in finance what exactly did you do so a lot of it was transaction services so like m a stuff for tax uh not the most interesting thing for a podcast i think people are gonna click off this if they if i keep talking well how about this how was the money working in finance doing stuff like that money is good obviously but it's not as much as you would think if you compare it to like content creation and just a lot of other things where you can control your own hours if like imagine working 100 hours a week yes you might get maybe like 100 200 000 but there's so many better ways to make that level of money i think so you were working 100 hours a week yeah i think you work pretty aggressively with most people was just like right out of school that you did really yeah how much of that is networking though instead of grades because i would imagine a lot of people have great grades but if they don't have the networking skills they just never get in in the first place yeah i think that's a a very major thing especially for asian students because people just assume that you're like not social when you can't network and that you're not fun to work with so there are a lot of people who have like really good grades 4.0 but it's they don't get interviewed as much as they should because there is that merit side and then there's the like social side of it got it okay so what made you leave that industry of working like a hundred hours a week how long did you do that for as well uh two years um initially i think i got dissuaded from working in the industry and i was like oh let me work in tech and i think it's a pretty common thing for people where they're like okay let me like reinvent myself let me work in a different industry that's better that like either pays more competitively or that i can find my passion in so that made a bit more sense to me but i mean you're kind of trading 100 hour 100 hours a week getting paid very well to working 100 hours a week not getting paid very well especially if you're trying to start your own company got it so you saved up some money from doing that for two years then decided to do something you're more passionate about and i'm sure you had some sort of savings that you were able to live off of while doing this first startup yep so i pretty much cut my spend down to crazy crazy levels just to make sure my runway would be as long as possible i think graham would be pretty impressed that's right so i was spending about 500 a month in boston wow that's including housing that was including housing food what about health insurance oh you don't need that yeah called planet fitness i'm certain certain things yeah you you just maybe you should have paid for it but you you skipped oh that's right i didn't listen i didn't pay for health insurance for how many you told me about this yeah yeah because i i figured like i looked at the the statistics i was going to the gym every day i didn't drink i didn't smoke i don't like well i guess i have car insurance obviously but health insurance i had like no existing conditions and when i got a quote for myself i think i was like 25 26 whenever you fall off your parents plan whatever that is um i looked into it it was like 300 bucks a month and i'm thinking to myself that's a that's a less payment that's a lease payment and i never go to well i should i should go to the doctor but i never go to the doctor i was like why like i'm just gonna take the chances and if something happens i'll find a way to pay for it out of pocket but yeah didn't need it and then they issued the penalty when i think it was like one percent of your salary is a penalty and then i was like oh crap now i have to do it because it's cheaper so you survived without it and then they instituted this penalty and then that's when you decided to yes didn't you pay the penalty for a year though i did yeah i think the first year i was just so against it because i felt like it was a waste of money and uh yeah the first year i paid the penalty and then the penalty went from one percent to two percent i was like i i hate i hate the penalty but you know what it is what it is now i have health insurance which i have no i've never used uh the two times i've actually gone to a doctor i've decided to pay out of pocket because i don't want to deal with the insurance companies and my deductible is so high it doesn't make sense anyway 500 a month is impressive uh what was your living situation like how do you get away with 500 bucks with yeah so we were living a bit further away but we could bike so i had like a bike pass that was like an unlimited bypass thing i had a co-working space that was only 70 a month and they would throw a lot of free events where you could get free food so a lot of startups are like hey we're doing this launch event we're doing whatever here's free pizza so i got a way of doing that quite a bit for probably like four months and then we ended up getting into an accelerator program down in rhode island where they gave you money to invest in you and yeah that got a bit better afterwards what was the first business you said the first one failed yes what was that so that was trying to help companies hire based off myers-brigg which is kind of flawed and not the best the myers break for anybody who's not aware that's like the introvert extrovert like right that they give the four letters basically details your personality on a sheet of paper yeah yeah i feel like just depending on your mood that day it could swing like you could be an introvert one day and extrovert the next you could fake it really well as an introvert yeah and then also you could argue it's like well is there any hiring efficacy like is it better is certain things actually better or not but i think the idea was that it was another data set that you would have as a hiring person that just more data is always better when you're trying to hire could uh could i ever say that you discriminated against me because i'm an introvert no that uh no you can't do that ironically not i think it would be like oh engineers generally prefer working with other introverts versus extroverts because they don't like getting distracted they don't want to yeah i feel like there's some weight to that you know like if you are hiring a sales person it might make probably someone more extroverted but i think we got a lot of pushback from companies that's like oh like how valid is this yeah and there's also a lot of like crappy science behind myers break as well and everything else and that was your idea uh i was working on it with two other co-founders all right at what point did you realize it failed that you're just like this isn't working we gotta pull the plug on it uh we pretty much got not too many we didn't get that many companies paying for it and then we got a lot of pushback so it didn't really make sense we ended up doing a quick pivot to a marketing automation tool that allowed you to automate a lot of your interactions online so imagine if someone tweeted something specifically to you on twitter it would respond with a very specific thing uh but then twitter does not really like people developing on their api so that got shut down pretty quickly too and then after that it was pretty much okay let's wind down the company got it and then what was the second business second business was peer-to-peer lending uh to people attending coding boot camps so in san francisco and just pretty much everywhere there's a lot of coding bootcamps that have popped up the idea being that it's 20 30 000 in order to go through the program but they're helping you increase your income dramatically so people making maybe 40 to 60 000 are now making 90 to 150 000 a year so how do you get more people into these programs because you're empowering them but a lot of the times they don't have twenty thousand dollars it's and even if they do like is this a good investment so can you lend based off the idea that if they go through this program that they're going to be very safe and like risk less comparably got it what do you take as collateral if anything like what's to say that you lend them 30k they get a day before graduating they just like you know what i'm over it or they don't apply themselves afterwards they don't get a job like is it the same as like a credit card where it's like it's an unsecured loan then you have to go after them yeah it was unsecured i think that was another part of the problem where you it's really hard to underwrite people who are unsecured without any other assets and even if you do chase them even if you can it's not the best look that a company is trying to chase down students say i would do that i'd chase them down i would not every night they'd get a phone call from me where's my money yeah it's great hey what's up what's up guys it's graham here you owe me money yeah uh so that one ended up getting aqua hired by a firm uh which is the lending company max levchin's a firm a firm yeah a firm affirmative e-f-f-i-r-m but it was an aqua hire so one a firm affirmative firm that's been doing really well yes wow [Music] i see so when you say aqua what is that so aqua hire basically means so one trick when you look at acquisitions is if there's no number assigned to it then it's generally something super tiny where either investors get paid back or just maybe you get a bit of money but not a lot so like if you see an acquisition say oh they're required but nothing versus oh they required for 250 million or something so what are we talking here so well no my my assumption then it sounds like whatever money you had in to paid out the investors so you've got to break it but then you continue to work for the company um no one none of the founders did they basically bought uh the users that we had on the platform and the marketing collateral that we had imagine a firm buy now pay later for uh like tuition imagine that i think they tried that space for quite a bit but it got really tough and it just the other problem was that there was another startup that popped up called lambda school which was doing it internally so what they did was they would have you go through their own program and instead of lending you money it was income it was a income share agreement so they would take a certain percentage of their money until it hit 30 000 for the next two years so it's like well you don't need to lend the money there's no risk why would you take on any risk at all when you can do an income share agreement got it i like that better okay so that got acquired then what was next next i pretty much hopped around a few different startups that i was interested in and just helping out as an early employee okay when'd you make the youtube channel youtube channel was when the chase sapphire reserve came out wow that was what 2016 i believe yeah 2016 i was very hesitant until i think i saw beat the bush had like an audience yeah and then maybe you mentioned this too at some point that like beat the bush like was why you considered starting that there was an audience yeah yeah speaking of which beat the bush is coming this uh upcoming not yet a week from tomorrow really excited beat the bush i've been watching his channel since probably 2016. he's one of the first channels to talk about financial independence retire early and i remember his always his videos would get like 10 000 views a video that he would talk about fire i was like wow there's ten thousand people out there and uh yeah he he was a great example that you could make a video about that and if there's an audience for it yeah i was surprised because i think when i thought of youtube it's entertainment it's more like comedy skits or music versus yeah yeah education so yeah the chase sapphire reserve that was the card for me that really got me like gung-ho about credit cards prior to that for me it was the amex gold and i loved that card because i think it got 30 000 35 000 points i think when i signed up and then i used uh 25 000 of those points for a round-trip plane ticket to go and visit family in canada and then i realized wow this is so cool so then i'd like refer family and friends uh to get the car to i get 5 000 points of referral and we basically load those up and get free free free trips so ever since i think it was like 2013 never paid for a plane ticket i've always just used points wow i have no idea yeah you don't travel that much granted yeah and i haven't traveled ever so i've never paid for a plane ticket but no the chase fire reserve for me was uh was the card that came out that i felt like i had finally made it because it was metal and i remember getting that card it was one of the first people to get it as soon as it came out and it was a metal credit card and i was blown away i got a hundred thousand points for signing up to this card and i was just ecstatic what was your limit on that card do you remember thirty thirty five thousand dollars i think thirty two thirty yeah it was thirty two or thirty five thousand uh that would i would have been 25 i think wait it came out 2016. yeah 25 26. i don't uh you know it came out just after i turned 26. a lot a lot of people started with like 15 to like 35k is that like pretty common geez i did not know that the limit was that high yeah we got like 3 000 on my card which card kind of on my cards i don't have the the so the difference though is that something like the chase sapphire reserve the minimum starting limit is ten thousand dollars so like if they if they are uncomfortable giving you ten thousand they're gonna be like yeah yeah yeah please go over there got it okay yeah let's go with the discover it's secured card yeah now but that that card for me was it got me so excited about cards that really got me interested in the doctor of credit i got really into the points guy like all of his people uh through the chase sapphire reserve and i actually applied at the same time as a chase sapphire reserve i also applied for the chase sapphire preferred and then i think there was one or two other cards i got at the exact same time because it's right in the middle of a renovation and the contractor asked if i wanted to put the materials on the card or just lump that in with his payment i'm like now we're gonna put it on the card so i basically got like three or four credit cards charged like four grand four grand four i just maxed them all out will not max it but the for the sign up and then i got hundreds of thousands of points that's a way for money yeah i know but that's what i recommend yes like half the time it's like if you you're doing a deck renovation or anything where you spend a large amount of money weddings are another big one where hey i'm dropping thirty thousand dollars and if you if you're gonna if you're gonna do that anyways and like let's say your significant other wants that then why not get the honeymoon for free or highly highly subsidized yeah so what are your thoughts on how much to spend on a wedding you told me 30 grand i'm like 30 000. yeah i don't thousand dollars i don't think i would spend that much i think i don't know for me it would be five or ten thousand dollars would be fine i would rather save that money and either travel with it or like invest it or do anything else versus putting on a show for a bunch of people is my view is there any way that you can say that an event to all like the vendors is not a wedding because i know for a fact once you tell the vendors that you're having a wedding they immediately charge like a 100 premium on their services so if you just say oh yeah it's just like a business party with all my friends and then boom there's a bride in the groom you probably could get away with it well i used to own a wedding company jack oh and um that happened to me once how did it make you feel as a vendor yeah i hated those people listen but you gave them a fair rate right for your service we put in so much more attention to detail for weddings i mean the planning is just crazy so alex said it's true so i read an entire thread on reddit about this where someone was asked like how do i save money on a wedding and everyone was giving their tips and tricks and one of the the first thing for the dj was don't tell them it's a wedding and they'll quote half the price same with catering don't tell them it's a wedding and uh the one guy who commented was a photographer and said uh he's walked away from events like that where they told them it's like we're just hosting an event just take pictures uh because like alex said the the attention to detail for a wedding is significantly more important than uh like like you know you're just drinking with your butts you know to get those shots and and to have that such a like a one-time occasion you can't mess up and so not that they're going to mess up anyway but it's like instead of taking pictures of you know i was just thinking for the venue and maybe for the food services not that i think the photographer is very important that they do know it's a wedding yes um yeah people have said for the venue don't it's a wedding but i think they they would it's basically really frowned upon but i agree listen i agree with that you know how much do you think you're gonna you should spend on a wedding uh ten thousand sounds sounds that's pretty reasonable i listen on a ring here's the thing well it if i think if it if it were my choice like if if we're doing like my choice here i i think like five thousand bucks like in my mind just just like right now yeah but like i would say like rent out a warehouse space or something like that like a cool warehouse uh had you know you could get a lot of the stuff like that dj just get that sponsored or whatever uh i think that's the food you could save people over the house it's like you know something like that potluck would you do it would you do a youtube wedding uh probably not probably not no i didn't want to want this yeah i doubt it but um no i don't know it just seems like it's just this throw a party five grand yeah like five grand i honestly think five grand throw a party right yeah you could rent a mansion for probably like three thousand yeah four thousand that's it just yeah exactly get get the food so all you need to do is just get food delivered right invite people and that's it right domino's delivery that's easy fancy that's event but something like that you know i i don't get the theatrics i i but i i just that's the main issue is a lot of people feel that that's the absolute peak and best point of their life that's why they want it to be amazing but then that's kind of sad and that's why i think about that the rest of your life is downhill from here yeah i also think there's like very diminishing returns once you're at like twenty thousand versus thirty thousand or even like up to two hundred k right it's like how much how much more then it's usually for the family then it's really like but i feel i don't know i can't help but feel like a lot of that seems very superficial of just like let's let's impress i think it's flexible yeah is it really i think it's flexing for a certain demographic yeah like some people do luxury watches and cars and other people do fancy weddings that's yeah that's true it's just another flex listen if people are spending 300 grand on an nft just to be like that's true yeah ultra wealthy yeah but here's the thing even in an nft it'll still retain its value i feel like it's it's hard it's hard to well then again you you know then you get into like what's the memory word sure i don't know like i look at some of these things like like people are spending like 15 000 a bottle service and i'm like well i'll have a better memory just going and watching uh you know some documentary on youtube and uh just relaxing like that that's a that's a great night for me i have a great memory from that we're just going to super sushi right yeah it's a great memory like so my memory to price ratio is very low so that's how it is what do you think you said ten thousand dollars is a proper amount to spend on a wedding i mean i that's for me and that's what i would be comfortable with but i would probably do a different thing than you i'd probably just fly immediate family out to like hawaii or something and then try to use points to subsidize other stuff see that's a good wedding yeah versus like throwing a party for maybe a lot of people and some of them i don't actually care about yeah yeah i like that idea i know this is kind of a tangent but you said like material things such as like watches or fancy cars are you a person that that likes stuff like that um i have ironically we ordered a snoopy 50th edition omega watch last year that we were supposed to get this year so it's like a collectible watch um it was ten thousand dollars but like the secondary market for it is like 50 to like 70 dollars yeah right snoopy watching you bought it for ten and now it's worth 50 to 70. you haven't gotten it yet i haven't gotten anything yeah that's probably why i'm not a vip that's why i see that's why i'm down the list so how did you get it immediately though i didn't get immediately i just put my name i kept every time i came to vegas i would go to the shop and ask to put my name on the list and every time they'd be like we don't have a list that watch does not exist right and then one time they're like we do have that list and we're taking deposits and it's like if you pay in full then and you know you will get it though yes eventually so the question is i don't know how long i don't like that eventually because by the time you get it yeah it's going to value my tank everyone else is going to get there exactly i've heard i don't want to say names i've heard bad things about going to the watch places on the strip because they don't take you serious because they they just see you as like in and out yeah oh that's another one of these guys yeah yeah yeah um they want the locals to go in there because those are repeat business a lot of people go to the strip rarely come back or not that often so i've heard not so good things about you want to go to someone local yeah on that or federico talks watches he's good he's great yeah yeah what would you say is your most lavish expenditure um i think travel travel yeah so even though i have a lot of credit card points and stuff there's a lot of trips i don't use points for because the value's not there got it yeah we could also mention why you're in town right can't we i think we should first talk about your youtube channel so you started the youtube channel 2016 chase sapphire reserve mm-hmm did you do that to make money or was that just you were excited about talking about credit cards so i could not shut up about credit cards is what happened i think once you get into the rabbit hole you're like guys just why is no one else signing up for this it's 100 000 points it's literally free money and people are like man let me think about it so i was trying to convince a few friends to sign up for the card and back then there wasn't even a referral link so it's like just sign up it makes you money and then i i had to repeat it so many times that i'm like let me just film a video you can watch it as many times as you want because they kept asking me the same questions and that kind of started everything and initially i wasn't really sure if i even could make money on youtube i don't think most people come in to thinking about that a lot of it is just educating other people and i don't know just talking shop about something you're interested in that's interesting you still work in a full-time job at that point making youtube how many videos are you posting in the beginning beginning i think we did like one a month and then at uh at some point the startup that i was working at ended up shutting down pretty much so running out of money um and then i started doing dailies in 2017 i think starting in march and was that seen as a replacement to your job um i'm not even sure if we were monetized yet i think i was just like let's see what happens and do this and see where it goes got it now you obviously had the savings right to get yourself through this in the beginning yeah at what point did you realize that youtube is now a career or that you wanted to do that full-time i think towards the fall of 2017 when we were starting to make more money and i get monetized for a lot of stuff yeah so can you break down a few of the income sources obviously you have ad revenue uh credit card affiliates could you break it down um i would say i would say youtube adsense is probably only about like 10 to 20 percent [Music] sponsorships are probably about 20 and then affiliate is the rest that's fan that's fantastic to have affiliate that much uh could you could you tell us any just generally yeah what are you bringing in per month it's like highs it's it's like mid to highest five figures per month per month yeah so but about a million a year give give or take plus or minus depending if the irs is watching or not right yes oh yeah that's fantastic and and has that been pretty consistent uh no it's highly cyclical depending on the cards that come out and everything else so with 2020 we pretty much had like six months of like terribleness because all the issuers were pulling back and they were not uh either having bonuses or they were not paying out and yeah everything related to that side was terrible yeah i remember i got worried that uh it was the last month of march i think i got not like worried worried but uh my ad revenue went down i think it was 80 70 80 almost overnight when that when everything was going down 80 was gone like the next day and then i had sponsorships that were kind of in the works like they're kind of talking about everyone was like all right we're holding off for a little bit and so for that for that month it was like ah crap is this going to be like the new normal uh is it's just like 80 was gone views were really down too at that ti at that time i don't know why but uh and then everything a month later just went crazy it was nuts well that's great i think that year like dependent on credit cards like although that sounds kind of like a negative thing we like the content you make graham is basically just upon like investing principles which don't change over time so it's pretty tough to create content but for you you have like a recurring thing that you can continue to make content on it's always good content you probably have a really good formula for each video so i'm sure that's probably quite nice kind of like the doug demiro of chris exactly that's right yeah yeah yeah i think with yours it's really easy to get a lot of views and get a lot of adsense because it's like oh the market's turning and it works out really well because you can do general news now i think for me uh my total addressable market is substantially smaller even when i talk about general finance stuff it actually doesn't do well for my channel yeah so because my audience is so trained to only expect credit card stuff yeah i always thought it was kind of funny that you and uh the credit shifu were always neck and neck with subscribers i've seen you like you gain a thousand he gains a thousand he gains a thousand you get a thousand uh what's the relationship like between you two um friendly i'm he's cool is there any rivalry that goes on like you see him make a video and you're like oh he got to that video first uh sometimes i think he's really good about getting stuff out fast because he used to be like a news reporter person so he's like really good on camera i'm a bit more shaky because as you can see with the intro i end up repeating parts a lot until i like find the one that i like but he's like he's kind of like heaven in that sense where he can just do it in one take got it yeah i repeat myself so most of my videos me saying the same thing 10 times and then i'll pick that last one that's exactly what i do which is the worst and i need to get better off that yeah yeah so when did you get into startup investing because that's what i find the most interesting yeah so i think in 2020 when everything was slowing down and actually let's rewind so in 2019 we traveled once a month every month and we were expecting to do that in 2020 as well i actually considered being a digital nomad in 2020 which obviously didn't work out and once we started staying in the bay area more just hanging out with more friends that we knew who were doing startups and said hey this is pretty cool i have some disposable investments i didn't really know where i want to put it and startup investing seems interesting and it seemed a lot more affordable than i thought and a lot of people come into startup investing say thinking that they need to put in like a hundred thousand dollars or like even fifty thousand dollars into deals but a lot of companies will happily take you if you can add value now if an investment doesn't do well what do you what do you like what's the definition if it if it how do you know if it does well or not so you can kind of tell by whether first off they tell you it's gonna they're out of money and it's like hey do you want to put in more money and that's always a concern secondly if they don't raise any additional rounds in let's say a year that's generally a big sign because most startups raise with the expectation that they have to raise again in six to 18 months how many startups have you invested in probably 85-ish but a lot of small checks too like some some of the bigger ones i just put like a 2 500 check-in well in some of the smaller ones yeah some i know some of the bigger ones bigger companies that don't want funds uh yeah exactly so like there are some companies that are in like 100 or 200 million valuation range and like i know that the upside there is lower therefore i just put in less money but i think it's still going to do well like i think it can 10x but what's the point though of a 2500 investment well it's just like investing like pre-ipo right yeah so the idea is that you can still 10x to 50x and if you look at the s p or like any of these other exchanges look at how much value is within tech companies compared to everything else so like if you look at like facebook microsoft google amazon and i think netflix represents 20 of the s p so assuming assuming that you are very bullish on tech why not get into it earlier and if you look at these hedge funds and these other investment vehicles they're actually looking more early stage now so traditionally they never touched venture capital stuff because that wasn't their business but they're looking for alpha they're looking for income and how to make more money so startups is that next stage to me yeah but why 2500 why not 10k 15k why think a lot of it is diversification and with startup investing you want to diversify and then sometimes it's just building a relationship with founders so even if you're not necessarily super duper bullish but you think they'll do okay you might still want to invest to have that relationship because you think their next startup is going to be the banger got it and what do you look for in a startup specifically so generally there's like three things you want to consider you want to consider the team traction and then the product um as long as you have two of those three things they're pretty good to go so you want to see if that they have a competitive advantage and can beat out other people the problem is that i've seen so many startups that either you've given me or that that other people have given me in the network and i think they're stupid ideas i hear them and i think that is like an idiot would have to do that and then a year later i see that they've 10xed in value i'm like why how how it doesn't make any sense there was a there was a startup that that me and kevin both listened through this in my i'm gonna say what it is it was the equivalent of like a college presentation i thought it was so bad and these are just like adults doing this thing it's a stupid idea and like 5x but no no but but here's the thing you can't really cash out it's not like it'd be like sell right now like you have to see it through completions you know but why it doesn't make sense if i'm passing on some of these ideas so the question though is is your background conducive to understanding what the future is right yeah but that was something i was directly involved in okay no but i mean do you basically do you think you're the oracle of the future like do you is yours what is your view you're saying that on record listen there there's there's this idea well it's all to say it's in real estate it's a real estate company oh wait a minute is this the one you told me about no oh no that was another one um but i like that one that one was good yeah it was good uh but no the real estate one i can't see how this would i couldn't see it yeah just as someone who's been in the business yeah so you're the oracle of of real estate in the future for that idea yeah i mean to be fair there was another one that you presented to me that 10x which one the credit card one that pay your rent with your credit card did you invest in that i did not did you you did this this is for a spot yeah so that's how well let me tell you let me tell you what happened it's a uh a lesson to everybody okay did you learn about this from what who did you learn about this investment from kevin o'leary and what and and you didn't trust him i did oh all right you're speaking as though i i've do you know what i'm going to say but you don't i thought you were you were going to say that you brought him the deal that's why you're no no no no no kevin o'leary uh introduced me i'm not going to say it um kevin o'leary introduced me to a company that i liked they were good um so i put money into this and got it all signed uh through angel invest and i got an email said congratulations your deposit has been received all the stars are great stuff fine um they sent me an email a follow-up to finalize like they wanted me to sign something i missed the email i don't know they emailed me again a few weeks later i missed the email uh and i get like hundreds of emails a day so it's like you know sometimes i sift through or sometimes i'll even see somebody like oh i need to get to that and then by the time like i just the day has gone by i forget about it uh then he uh the the the founder sends me a text and it was like in the middle i i must have been filming or something sometimes i'll open up the text and just like i'll get to it later i forget about it and gosh almost a year later now got back to me and said hey graham like i want to let you know we're uh we're raising another round like 400 million dollars like some absurd amount and uh he asked me if i wanted to get in i say well you know i just my my initial invest and he always says like it's too bad we weren't able to get you into the first round and i was like wait what no i and i showed him the email is like i submitted i i'm in there i signed everything it's like no you missed this one email and we weren't able to get you through that round and he's like we've been trying and sure enough i looked back and uh he was telling the truth like sure enough he they said that they were trying to reach out it was that was on me but uh my investment would have gone up like 15 times yep had i had that investment gone through it was it was uh you know not like six figures or anything like that but but it was it was an amount that like just it's tough yeah so they wanted to do a make good and we're still trying to work that out um at that value you know at the original valuation if i could do something uh add some value there but still yeah but but you didn't invest in that yes why i skipped that one because i was not it was something that i did not feel comfortable pushing on my channel so i think a lot of my investments aren't necessarily only fintech but it's what do i feel comfortable recommending to a friend and at that point from what i heard at least it didn't seem like it was that thing and that's why i was like oh it probably will do super well but if i don't if i either i can't help them or if i don't feel comfortable recommending it do i really want to invest in it yeah was it you that explained to me by the way that uh their valuation is the likelihood that they're gonna reach a billion dollars was that you that told me that i probably think i did yeah uh because i was asking sebby i said like how do they come up with these values it seems like very arbitrary numbers like big numbers 100 million 20 million and it must have been you that explained if they're raising a hundred million dollars that means investors think there's a 10 chance that they're going to hit a billion if they're raising at uh 500 million there's a 50 chance they're going to hit a billion kind of makes sense that's that's kind of the metric now the valuations have actually shifted more i would say the starting valuations uh went from something like maybe five mil to eight mil to 15 to like 30 ml is pretty standard now for even pre-product so it just depends on your team and everything are you worried about that because the credit card i think that was a 15 to 30 million dollar evaluation without a product a ma imagine this jack imagine not even having a product and your companies are 30 million dollars it doesn't make sense how does how you betting on the team though you're betting on the fact that they have the right relationships to make it work long term so that they're either well connected enough or that they have the smart people in the room to make the right decisions but why even raised that like i feel a lot of these things shouldn't they still financially self-funded like why it seems to me like it's an easy way to come up with these you know we came up with this idea it's 100 million dollars maybe it's actually worth 10. but let's say it's 100 million we're gonna raise all this capital we're gonna barely give up anything but now we got like all this money a lot of it is on basically showing that other people believe in you so even if you can self-finance it if people don't believe in you then it's a bit tougher and then another part of it is relationship building so by having someone as an investor then they're more likely to talk about you and connect you with the right people wow so you're saying if i self-funded something and i got it to a business let's say it's making like three million dollars a year in profit let's say it's worth 15 that it would be more difficult for me to raise capital than at the very beginning just having no people on my side not necessarily but i'm just saying the case for you selling some of that equity early on is that you might be getting more people on your team to help you so maybe instead of just going from three mil maybe by having that extra capital you maybe get to 9 mil so it's like reinvesting in your set or you're filming equipment or anything else like that so the question then becomes you're you're investing in a lot of these you have the connections why don't you do it why don't i do the startup instead why don't you do a startup instead ironically we actually oh okay sorry so ironically we actually are doing a startup right now mandy and i can we hear about it so what we're doing is we're creating a platform that allows content creators to get equity in startups for early stage deals so when you think of the robin hood of robin hoods of the world when they first started when they were worth substantially less they weren't paying out as much because they couldn't afford it because we're just a startup and we can't pay you that much but if you got equity even five dollars in equity at that point that probably would be worth 500 to maybe a thousand dollars per share and yes they're starting to pay you more now but that's not really what's happening yeah so this guy sent me an email pre-ipo investing partner opportunity managed shady already sorry yeah okay uh so he says i have a new partnership opportunity that may be of interest to you link to allow accredited investors to invest in pre-ipo shares of a variety of companies in the past they allow investors to get in early companies like sofi robin hood and coinbase at 35 dollars a share and currently now for investments in companies like kraken ripple uh varro impossible foods and zipline a logistics company uh for referrals to complete the full sign up process the program will pay you 360 so is is is that basically no so that's more you investing money this is more so pretty much the what we did with the other fintech startup wow so this is so service we're talking about social capital yes wow so okay that's it so tell us more so yeah um basically how do you help these early stage companies who don't have the war chest of robin hood and instead of giving you cash like the five dollars maybe doesn't move the needle but what about five dollars in equity because it could be worth substantially more yeah the one issue that uh that i want to say because i've um really yeah ever since about a year and a half ago i just wanted equity and so every time a company would reach out to me not every time but a lot of the time when i really really really like the company it's like can you just give me equity instead you give me less money but just i just want the equity and almost all of them said no because first of all it didn't seem like they had an issue getting people just like hey we're just going to pay you and that's good but the the bigger thing when i when i spoke with some of the larger companies was that they don't want to give up their equity it's so highly like guarded that they don't they want to keep all of it for themselves and not only that but then it's getting that approved through everybody else and they're like well if we do it through you then we have to go through everybody so it seems so why why is that and and it seems also like then once i started saying that all the great companies don't want to give up equity then i'm skeptical of the companies who do because then i'm like well if they believed in it that much then why wouldn't they just keep it for themselves they must not believe it must not be that good if they're giving me equity yeah so a lot of the companies that you're probably asking for equity from are way too late so if they're worth more than 100 ml yes it's very unlikely that they're going to do that because they'd rather just raise more money because capital's so cheap at that point going from 10 mil to 100 million is a lot harder than going from 100 million to 1 billion so for them there's so many people who want to hand the money but in that early stage that's where we can add the most value generally and also where they might benefit the most from actually else shouting it out or us helping them with any user acquisition so let's say you bring me on what's the expectation of me is it like i mention them so many times a month do i have an out on that like what's the let's say there's a company on there that you don't like you can skip it and you can focus on the ones that you do like and uh the idea is that you can select and you can see what the valuations are and you in your head can see if it's worth it for you to do it and there's three different models that we have so it allows you to do it based off conversions so pretty much like any other affiliate link you'll be able to just shout it out any point you want uh any sponsor segments so instead of ten thousand dollars in cash or five thousand dollars in cash it's five thousand dollars in equity because for them that's maybe more affordable and then advisory if they really want to sit down with you and maybe pick your brain once a week or something got it i'm worried that it seems like a lot of these companies let's say they're valued at 10 right and it seems like for the influencer you're almost working against yourself because now you shouted it out and now that 10 goes to 20 very quickly and then it's like well now if i do this shout out again now i'm getting like deluded i'm getting less value than i did the first time when it was how do you overcome that and also how do you overcome the fact that a lot of these companies since they believe they're going up in value instead of paying like 20 000 upfront cash they'll be like we'll just give you 5k of equity but it's going to be worth 10 times that you know very soon yeah i think that's always going to be tough so you're looking for people who believe in the company long term but i think that is the trend that we're going towards and if you look at the really big influencers if you look at the casey neight stats the good mythical morning guys a lot of them actually have funds that invest in startups and for a lot of the people in the middle let's say 100 000 to 1 million subscribers you make a good amount of money but you don't make enough that you have a fund or that you're investing as much as you would want so how do you turn your capital or your social capital into actual ownership when is this going live uh it actually already is live if you wanna sign up if you're a creator why don't we do that with the iced coffee hour can we do that as the iced coffee hour yup okay can we do it with this the family it doesn't have 100 000 subscribers okay i'll reach back out to you later wait dude we don't need a hundred thousand subscribers i didn't know i i trust you yeah oh yeah why don't we do that all right let's do it yeah really i think it's a great idea uh and the idea too is that if you don't have a sponsor segment then why not have an affiliate it's pretty much exactly the same as weeble and that you can plug it in however you want do we have a sponsor uh not for this one but guys sign up for the thing in the description whatever whatever the thing is it's really good check it out we love it it's amazing okay no excuse me whatever it is uh this is the company that jack and i have gone through we've been working on it for a long time very long time no no we'll go through the list we'll pick we'll pick like one or two that we really like and that'll be down below in the description but we gotta get on this episode's posting on sunday so the time is a ticking right we got it we got to get on this limited sign ups only limited to 100 people 24 hours yeah about this we're going to take the link down in 24 hours if you don't do it now yeah i like the idea yeah signing up how many startups have you exited like cashed out of so far none of them so right now it's all paper money so even if yeah even if i have like oh two million or five million in like net worth it's all paper money can you can you tell us the aggregate value let's say of the worth of the startups right now just draw us a number um so mandy and i put about a million into startups okay i put like four or something um i would say it's about like 10x a lot of it's like paper money right okay so i got 10 million yeah like there's one startup i put 5k in that 20 something yet so it's worth like yeah can you tell us what startup that is no so the the one thing that a lot of people hate about startup stuff is that it's so private because it's not my choice because if i do it then i'm going to get cancelled by the founder and because they're like hey don't like don't explain this don't explain validation don't do a press release yet so oftentimes when people do talk about them investing in something everyone does it on the same exact day and people are like oh is this a scam that the youtubers are doing because they're all announcing their investors it's like no because that was the day it's publicized i think it's old that's a stupid old-school rule i don't i mean i don't get it just talk about it when you want to talk about it yeah i think it's it's the old and the new balancing act got it that's it's 10 mil so are you nervous that that there's a chance that many of these pan out or like what what are the chances that some something reaches 100 million dollars and it fails um 10 right yeah yeah i think it can still obviously happen i think to me 10 mil is the 100 mils to range where it gets a lot easier to raise capital because your fundamentals are there now it's just based off your numbers and your performance but let's just say it's 100 mil is there ever a chance that they're just like hey we're done 100 and no one buys them out because wouldn't they at least wouldn't they always have some sort of worth giving their like couldn't they always be like all right guys like we're selling back we're selling at 20 million now yeah so assuming it is not a scam and there's no legal issues in the background oftentimes you'll probably have someone buying them at pennies on the dollar or at least enough for investors to get their money back so we've seen that a lot where like a company might raise a hundred mill at uh 800 million valuation but then they get bought for like 200 mil so it's like the investors get paid back the employees get a bit and the founders get a bid and the idea is that they lock you in so that team has to work for that company for like four years otherwise you don't get your money yeah got it so since we're talking about startups i want to ask you about this okay so uh as we know very good friends with jeremy financial education he's seen the future as creating his own app because right now you know uh we're relying on all these other websites for our information his idea was we have the audience uh why don't we create our own product why are we investing in all these other things when we could just do it ourselves and create something that's very uh to us what were you about to say i feel like a lot of people have tried that and it makes sense but it's so tough to port your audience somewhere else if you look at people's views like how often to use certain apps it's all in the mainstream apps um but it's just really tough to get people off of tick tock instagram facebook youtube okay let me tell you about this app i need brutal honesty with you okay brutal okay the app is called the hungry bowl down below in the description if you want to try it out follow along with us but the goal of it originally was that we were big fans of morning brew like big fans uh but we knew we could never compete with morningbrew with an email they've got the email down everyone who does that now is a copycat so immediately we're off of that um we came up with the idea of doing it in an app because that way once someone downloads an app they're never gonna delete that app i have apps on my phone that i've had for years i'll just never delete it the other thing that that's really good with an app unlike emails that you can control who gets notifications i know with email sometimes uh it gets lost tickets and spam sometimes it don't get sent whatever it is with an app you download it you get a notification so we've created our newsletter um on that app that'll send you a notification and then we realized well we're not just going to make an app with the newsletter so we also integrated stock charts earnings reports sec reports everything in one place so basically just aggregates all the information from around the internet uh that you just click a few buttons and everything is there and then it became well we would love for it to integrate all of your stocks so like let's say you have like five shares of tesla on weeble five shares in public five shares on uh robin hood it could aggregate all that and show on the hungary bowl you have 15 shares because it always bothered me that you had to like look you know attention and mint does it horribly so we want to integrate that and like do like paper trading and just a few other things on the app uh it's very expensive and hearing about uh first of all how long it takes and how much it costs to build something like that out it's extremely expensive i don't think people realize uh including integration if you wanna raise money yes so i wanna show you the app and then i want your honest advice uh the color scheme looks a bit tacky to me i'd probably use like some flat colors or just yeah different colors but it's fine um it just feels like there's not really much to do like it kind of feels like a watered-down weeble or like any of those other things where they have this as a future and then long-term the other question is well how are you actually monetizing this like with weeble it's because they have all this other these other things that this is a service that they're adding on top to add value but like if this is the core thing it's like are you charging people to use this app are you selling the information are you just aggregating it so i think that's a big question the plan was sponsorships within the newsletter or affiliates personally uh i don't think the affiliates will convert and um morningbrew does really really really well with their sponsors but they also have millions of people yep on a daily basis yeah and then i think i mean i think it's okay it's just convincing people to sign up for another app but if you have creators doing it then it simplifies it a lot more i don't know i just don't think there's any i don't think i would download this or i think i would download it i'd be like oh it's cool but i would never go back to it and i get like a lot of notifications on my phone about stuff and i just ignore it or sometimes like if it gets very annoying i'll just turn off notifications but yeah i won't uninstall that app got it so on average uh what has it been two years you've been in investing in startups did you say yeah i would say about two years two years and you've got about a hundred percent return no 10x i'm sorry sorry a thousand percent return yeah yeah but it's all paper returns though that's the thing right so like it either could be zero or it could keep going up right i don't really know so how much do you have invested in public companies public companies i've lowered my coverage pretty substantially i don't know i just and again this is probably a bad opinion but i'm not sure how much higher it can go so i would say like two hundred thousand yeah you sound like all of the people who comment on my video we're at the peak now and then i have another 20 percent and then it keeps going up uh i'm not shorting the market yeah that's right yeah yeah but doesn't it worry you a little bit that uh evaluations are are crazy that it seems like for tech and i've spoken with a few people who are in there and they're like yeah now we're raising capital because it's so easy right now and we're getting crazy so like we'd be stupid not to raise capital doesn't that concern you that like these conditions are just how much higher could go so like as you say that about the stock market i say that about tech it's like how much higher could go if interest rates go up how is that going to impact all these companies yeah definitely so i think what i would look into is actually where some of the other smart money is going so if you look at hedge funds a lot of them have started doing early stage investing or at least like mid-stage startup investing so in the 100 million dollar range because that's where they see the returns and ironically that's actually what's pushing the valuations up because there's new capital that didn't play in this arena before that is starting to do it and that's those are the people who are pretty much doing a deal every two days you know what i'm wondering if people look at the stock market and they're like yeah stocks are kind of high we're gonna make more money and they're looking at uh startups be like wait a second everyone's getting a 10x return there in two years let me just go and do that and then that's caught that self no it's self fulfilling because there you so i'm seeing you do that and i'm like i want some of that and then sebby sees me doing that he's like i want some of that and everyone else is doing that i mean it's definitely a risk uh one one thing a lot of people compare it to is like the dot-com bubble and say oh how do we know it's not that again one thing to consider is back then there were i think 400 million people who had internet access and now it's closer to something like 5 billion people so it's like 10 times as many people and i don't know i'm i'm pretty old now compared to jack i feel like we're in the same age group where i remember like having aol floppy disks and cds to get free internet and now everyone has everything on their phone like you have instant access to any information you want yeah to me it always seems like the most obscure ideas though um are the ones that do the best i was telling jack about this earlier that it was always the things that were never intended to make money that just grew organically like i think morning brew they started that uh in college as just creating a newsletter for fun that they would just work on this on the side and would grow it it seems like those businesses always tend to do the best because you're never set out to do anything and they just completely grow on their own yeah i think it it happens a lot to other social apps where monetization is not really the focus early on it's like how do you grow as fast as possible and then figure out monetization afterwards yeah what was the one app that you were telling me the guy remember we we went on a run and and jack you told me about this idea this guy that reached out to you with a with a web browser extension that i wanted to do that oh yeah oh yeah okay so was it yeah it would no no and it turned into honey no it was this it was this kid that was like in texas or something studying at university and he had developed an app with his friends that uh it kind of like like you'd put in a product i think and then they find the cheapest place you could buy that product so it's kind of like honey where like you know they give you the coupon code but ins instead it's kind of like going in reverse image searching something you want to buy and that's that's what it did so you'd put in the product and then i think that it would reverse image search and obviously it had like a database after you know many people have done that and then they'd show you where you could buy it for the cheapest it was a genius idea because i remember when i was buying furniture for the duplex a while ago every piece of furniture i would reverse image search it find the same thing for half the cost and i go through that website and almost every single item could reverse image search it and find it somewhere else for cheaper because they all use the same stock image it's it's so silly but yeah this extension i don't know if it's still up or or not but yeah this extension would you could turn it on and it would automatically whatever you want to buy reverse image search that image and then find it cheaper so long long-term you can see the path to revenue because they can just take a cut of that transaction right um short term it's like can they figure out distribution and even if it's a great product if no one knows about it then it doesn't really help yeah yeah sounds like a pretty good product yeah i loved i loved the idea but i don't i don't think he wanted an investor in that i think he just wanted to share his idea but now so there you go now you got your idea shared but i like i like that one a lot so speaking about all this uh lifestyle stuff do you own a house no so we rent for now because san francisco is prohibitively expensive and also i don't think i want to put all my capital into one thing i'd rather diversify into a bunch of things i think there's more like money to be made more alpha things so why live in california yeah why not move to nevada or texas or florida i think we've considered it but for what we're trying to do with our startup and also angel investing it's a lot easier to network when you're in san francisco because you can just go out and grab a coffee of people like it's it's a lot more convenient versus having a fly over there and i think when you do talk to people it's kind of stupid but when you tell them that you're from san francisco that you've worked in tech they understand that you understand them like you've been in the same position so you have that relationship camaraderie already versus someone like oh i'm in i'm in dallas or something like i've never i don't know what tech is i'm a dentist but i want an angel invest because i heard it on graham's podcast then they're going to be like i don't think i want to waste my time talking to you i don't know how much value you can add yeah got it but now the other thing you have to consider too let's say you have let's say your your 10 mil grows to 50. right and if you you cash out of those in california there goes 13 couldn't you move out like a as some of those might be approaching like years in advance you kind of get ahead a little bit i think in the future it's probably something we'll reevaluate right now we're still growing the pie versus worrying about like how how do i like maximize how much i take but that's why a lot of people have moved to miami and that's been more of a tech hub recently because of californians going over there how many uh people in the tech industry would you say have actually left it's hard to say because i think there's a lot of vocal people and it seems like it's like 10 to 20 but i think if you look at the stats it's closer to like one to five percent a lot of influential people left so a lot of the billionaires who have made that money who've had like five ipos this year left do you think california would ever do a wealth tax or an exit tax i think it's been proposed i i don't know if i think it would scare too many people i think it would actually potentially destroy the state if they passed that because then everyone would in the short term it looks very good for them but long term innovation's not going to happen like a lot of people who might be very successful want to build big companies why build it here why not vote it in like austin or anywhere else now that you mentioned i realized you have you kind of had the same outfit very often why i think i have like 20 of these shirts uh first off they're very comfortable uh number two i just don't wanna waste decisions every day so oh wow so you're like steve jobs or whatever who sure zuckerberg does the same thing oh zuckerberg yeah yeah yeah i think it's just like i don't really care how i look and i know that i look fine in this like maybe there is something that i look more fashionable in but like i'm not trying to impress anyone so it doesn't really matter and like most of my pants are from lou lemon because they're comfortable yeah so pretty boring do you think it helps or hurts you to have a simple outfit in uh in the bay area i feel like when you walk around the bay area everyone's wearing pataguchi patagonia or like north face and just joggers like no one's really dressed up like if you compare it to la i would say it's the polar opposite so subby they mentioned that you were here for something what are you here for i i don't we never found out we're here for the pokemon event what is that planet [Laughter] it's a million dollar box breaking yeah it's a million dollar box breaking of a pokemon original first edition sound yeah so the proceeds are going to i believe the aoki foundation and to help raise awareness for autism so uh chris camelo i think donated one of his boxes or actually donated like two of his boxes that are worth like three to five hundred thousand dollars each just donated them and they're going to be open tomorrow so it's going to be a really exciting event and i think we're going to be vlogging it so it's going to be going to be incredible you guys got to check out the family vlog because we're going to post the whole thing there but it's going to be an incredible event so what's rent like in san francisco what are you guys paying um if you can find you can find a two-bedroom brand controlled for 3000 to 3500 which isn't too bad um if you want to do super expensive obviously there's like two bedrooms that are like seven or eight thousand dollars a month as well but yeah just depends on you what are you guys what do you guys love it like 30 300 3200 wow that's not bad that's not bad at all it seems like you're probably saving like 80 of your income right not most of it and then the rest of it's just startups yeah startup investing um some jpegs no no nft you doing nfts doing nfts are you really are you making money no no you're losing money in enemies oh no i expected you to be like i expected you to be buying like uh what is it like angry apes or something yeah yeah so what's going on i bought a um of i bought like 100k of top shot or 120k of nba topshop which is dapper's thing uh that one's down like 20 but yeah um the other ones are yeah other ones are kind of meh it's it's hard to get a vibe on stuff too and then like i'm trying to be like very careful that i'm not accidentally like perceived to be pumping stuff that's another thing like we're like oh like i might be doing something but it's like don't necessarily just copy what i do but yeah right it seems like they're all big pump and dumps a lot of them because it's there there's there's some people out there who always seem to be like on the inn like buy this it's about to it's about to blow up and and they because they they'll show it on just like on the stories on instagram but just for friends and they'd be like buy this buy this buy now i've never gotten into nfts but uh i'm bullish on certain ones that are community based so board apes art club which i don't know absolutely that's the app store club i am very bullish on um and then yeah any of the original ones that have very strong communities so steph curry and a lot of other nba players bought board apes because the idea is that they're going to make like these locations in different cities where you can go so if you don't have one of these apes you either can't get in or you have to be a guest of someone else so they're making these like exclusive soho club like places i didn't know that yeah that's incredible that's the same one and then a lot of it is the fact that there's a discord so you don't have access to that discord unless you have one of these yes okay so that was one of the things i found really interesting so i follow alex becker on facebook i have to say alex becker is the best source of information i think for nfts you might maybe people disagree with me i've read every single one of his posts and he says that when people criticize him for buying some of these really expensive ones that are you know hundreds of thousand dollars he said the discord group alone pays for that because here's the thing imagine imagine you spend uh like 500 grand on an nft on a board and now you get access to a discord group you're not in a discord group with people who have a million dollar net worth the people who buy those things 100 million dollars billion dollar net worths and now you're in a discord group in the same community because of an nft it's like having an inn to talk to these people and network that's what it seems like a lot of the value is spending there's no other way for you to likely talk to someone like steph curry like even if like people know you but certain people at that level don't have a clue who you are right so if this can get you access to those people then that makes sense ironically i was doing the opposite of him so i was buying the ones and i realized that those the ones are not worth anything because it's it's like yeah it's not going to go anywhere but i would actually invest in the super expensive good ones because those are the ones that have value so you think the ones with a community or like or or being used as a token are going to be worth something i think yes very highly dependent on how good the community is what do you think of crypto punks crypto punks a lot of the perks is the fact that there is that secret community so in effect they're kind of trying to be like the illuminati of tech and i i'm pretty bullish on that one i think i have like fractional ownership of one like one like thousand for some tiny amount of one so i think that one's uh pretty good and i think that can go pretty far a lot of people i know who are in web 3 who are bullish on nfts see the floor for it being like 10 mil in like five to 10 years per crypto punk yeah i talked to somebody else and uh they were convinced that each crypto punk at minimum is going to be worth a million dollars and that's like the worst case scenario is a million dollar crypto punk yeah i think i've i've heard five to ten mil pretty easily it's just focusing on the blue chip ones versus the ones that people are trying to show on twitter so why don't you buy a crypto punk i think it's too much money into one asset that's the main thing right like it's 500k into one yeah one yeah but but it doesn't matter if if the floor is going to be a mill to 10 million dollars let's just say yeah i think i think a million i think is reasonable honestly uh why not just do it because you could always sell it i think it's just uh figuring out where your where the where i think it's just figuring out where it's best to put your money so for me i'd rather just put a lot into a lot of startups because that builds relationships which helps with other things and helps with our startup that we're trying to do so yeah maybe in the future i probably will try to buy one or at least a fractional ownership of one but even over i think fincon or over one of the other events that we did in the last two weeks we were talking about like hey why don't like 10 of us just put in like 50k each to like buy 10 percent of one each or something yeah i'd do that i'll do that yeah i think i think some of these communities that's where it's at i'm just so worried it's it's hypey yeah and just like these communities are are good now who's to say that you know the the billionaire gets bored after a while it's like yeah now all the plebs bought in it's not good anymore and that's the risk of it too that's why it's like well would you really put 500k into something like that right and then also if the if anything happens to the cryptocurrency market and like something crashes a lot of those if the bitcoin falls like 30 40 those nfts will probably fall 80 it'll probably be double whatever bitcoin might fall so thank you so much for coming on i really appreciate it and for all of you watching before you leave just make sure to leave a leave a like on the video that's it alex works so hard behind the scenes to make this possible jack has to sit here the entire time the least you could do give us a like give us a subscribe we have uh our link in the description on this stuff that we spent a lot of time looking through that'll be down below in the description thank you guys so much for watching and until next time cool 69. nice