Meet The Real Estate Investor Making $1.5 Million Per Month | Brandon Turner

welcome back to the iced coffee hour my name is brandon turner from bigger pockets here on the show and uh we're going to talk about how this show's made what dollar 73 from adsense in the last year and a half a dollar seventy seventy three right how'd you come up with that number uh i mean i figured it's not like a two dollar show but it's not like a dollar show so it's somewhere in the middle 1.73 yeah okay well you're off okay buy a lot how much how much did it make so far 133 000. that's what we made so you're oh wow white house all right about a 133 thousand dollars off one couple decimal points that's not too bad that's not it's around in here well thank you so much for coming on we're really excited to have you here because uh you are like the real estate house hacking guru like you are you are the mecca when it comes to uh real estate owning rental property house hacking cash flow like everything when people think of it they think of you generally you have 3 000 units so far that you rent out yeah which is insane yeah and you've been crazy and you moved to hawaii and you're basically just living it up there i'm doing a little bit living it up i'm doing some uh i got two kids so you're living it up as much as you can live it up so i surf uh i could pretend to surf and uh you know do the jogging on the beach kind of thing trying to live that cliche hawaii life that's good too bad and we also before and real quick are we recording yes because i never told you yeah i have done entire interviews where we've forgotten always a nervous wreck yeah interview like a celebrity one camera it was terrible like it was terrible who was it i can't remember it was somebody like a like a youtube kind of guy like a camera you didn't record and it was like 30 minutes in we're like oh i'm so sorry but were they cool with that yeah they were like cool with it did you just redo it i made it yeah we just we just did it over oh it was jim quick uh jim quit you know him a famous author he's like written millions that sold billions of books but yeah jim quick uh brain guy he's all about brain stuff anyway yeah it was like 30 minutes in we realized we didn't hit through my worst nightmares i think it is i think everyone would understand because they worry about themselves i know yeah i worry so much so that if it happened to me i'd be like all right well you know how would i want to be treated just do it again yeah it's that thought of like also you're like what do i like when i realized it all of a sudden i was like oh no no no no that's the worst feeling he's just like talking i was like what do i do do i do i tell him do i just wing it and be like try to do you stop at midnight that's the hardest thing yeah yeah so it was speaking of which i know we're going off at a tangent here i had that happen once with him i flew all the way to detroit remember yeah so i did on my second channel the graham stefan show did a reaction to this guy alex pardo the video got a million views in like a week and so i flew to detroit to confront him in person so the entire show and they went with me kevin on this trip so the entire trip was centered around just going for him with this one interview this one afternoon recorded the whole video got back to the hotel room we're done it went perfect and uh the audio didn't record the entire time it was just nothing and so at 7 pm i called him back and i'm like hey i'm so sorry can we do it again oh and he was cool with it he's like yeah sure so we filmed it again the second time and it was just fine yeah but yeah it sucks when it happens now i'm like most like backup backup backup yeah five different things yeah this gotta work and still i've screwed it okay well anyway anyway we also have some drama to cover that you're no longer going to be with bigger pockets so yeah we'll save that we'll save that towards the end all right but let's start off from the very beginning how did you get started before owning 3 000 properties how much does that make by the way do you know every every month oh that's how much is it i mean if our average figure average rent around 500 dollars because there are a lot of mobile home parks sure right so if you figure whatever 500 i'm not a math guy 500 times 3 000 whatever that is that's probably what it brings in i don't know i want to have a million a month right is that right i don't know sure i think that sounds like yeah that's right yeah yeah by zero or two rounding errors that's not so yeah how did you get started yeah man in real estate yeah so you know i was bowling it all started with bowling right so i was bowling and i'm there with this friend who's a real estate agent and i said oh i'm actually looking for a place to rent i'm 20 20 years old at times i'm looking forward to rent she goes why are you gonna rent just buy something i'm like well because i'm 20 i have no credit i have a job making eight dollars an hour uh and like i don't i can't my house have no money she's like trust me it's 2007 right she's like trust me we can get you alone call the bank tell them the same thing i'm like i got no nothing i mean nothing they're like great you're approved because that's what 2007 was so anyway i i knew enough to buy you know not go by the nicest property in the world because i was making nine dollars or whatever it was an hour yeah i bought the dumpiest property i could find i was just like a single family house and i bought it for 80 grand and i rented all the bedrooms and uh it worked and that was at the peak of the market 2007 was like right before like the bubble was about to pop and you're like nope i'm gonna get in there right beforehand but first we want to thank our sponsor betterhelp is there something that's interfering with your happiness or stopping you from being the best overall version of yourself well betterhelp is here to help you become that person betterhelp is not a crisis line nor is it self-help it's professional 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solution start living a happier better life today by visiting betterhelp.com iced coffee hour that's better h-e-l-p and join the over 1 million people taking charge of their mental health with experienced professionals special offer for all iced coffee hour listeners you can get 10 off your first month at betterhelp.com iced coffee hour thank you so much better hope for sponsoring this episode and back to the podcast so it was and you know what's funny though full circle this picture right so i bought the house living it only for a year uh not even that was like nine months and i sold it uh and actually bought it for 80 sold it's like 130 and that was like the peak of the market and it started crashing right that's a great return and then the market crashes the thing was probably not even worth 90 to people who bought it and it's like oh boohoo on them right thing's worth 250 today and they still own it so like that's one thing i level real estate is you hold on long enough you're probably going to be fine as long as you can hold on so you you bought it and then you held it for what was it like nine months yeah but what compelled you to sell it after only holding it for nine years actually i was like i'm gonna go i was like i want to backpack europe that's what i was like you were so lucky i didn't it's not that's cool okay it's it's not that cool but it's cool i was like i'm gonna go backpack europe i just had that thought one day just like i want to go backpack europe so i started asking a question how do i backpack europe for a year how do i do that and i thought well if i sold my house i could probably do that i'd probably get some money out of the house so i sold the house uh instead i got married so it's cool right i met my wife and we got married and it's great and i went to europe like two years later but that's how it started i sold the house and took the money and had a wedding what were you doing when you were making nine bucks an hour uh i was working overnight at a group home so for like developmentally disabled thought i could sit there and watch like music videos of like punk rock bands all night that was like my entire job would sit on the couch watch music videos and tv and make sure it was a heyday of mtv yeah so good i was like follow up boys like era and i was just like listening to fall out boy videos all day long all night did you go to college uh i did i got a history degree okay it was like one of those like i went to like five different schools and kind of like at the end i was like i got all these credits can i get a degree and they mailed me something and i don't use it at all okay so what was your like plan at that point you said you graduated college yeah and then and then from there you went to work at the the home yeah and then did you have any like long-term goals in mind or were you just kind of taking life as it comes you know i i was in college i chose a history degree simply because it was the fastest way out of college i was like i talked to the guidance counselor or whatever when i when i went to the final school and i was like well i got all these random credits from random things what can i do with it they're like well if you know history you can get out a quarter earlier like yes i will do that so i did a history degree and then there's three jobs you can do with a history degree there's like you can be a teacher you can be a lawyer or you can be homeless so like i chose the his uh i chose the history first the degree and then i think i'm gonna go and uh be a lawyer uh and then i read john grisham's book you read the firm john grisham you ever seen the movie yes okay the movie yeah it's all about like this lawyer who's like the mobs after him and all that which i mean it's an entertaining story right but what i got from that book was like the idea that like these lawyers work for like 40 years working 90 hours a week and like they go through like four wives and then at the end of their life they just like hate themselves and like there's like that's like the life of a lawyer uh for a lot of like law people and i was like wait what am i doing like that sounds like i'm like yeah it makes good money but what's the point of making 200 000 a year if you're working 90 hours a week to get it right so like that that book the firm made me change my mind and decide instead well this house thing is kind of cool what if i bought another house and fixed it up and then sold it so i thought i'm going to go flip house instead of watching the flipping shows and started flipping the show i loved was flipping vegas yeah yeah what was that uh scott yancey i think was his name yeah that's not anymore is it nope yeah those flipping shows don't last too long but no they don't yeah there's been a lot of them that just come and go and they're all the same but they're all they're good for inspiration and just like they're like oh i could do that that's cool and i found out i couldn't do it i was terrible at it and like trying to flip houses in 08 just terrible so yeah so what was your first flip attempt yeah bought a house for 45 000 and it was just a nasty old house built in like 1902 and put maybe 50 grand into it like 95 into it and then tried to sell for 130 and then the market's just crashing i mean i could have made 25 30 grand after fees but the market was just crappy and couldn't sell it so i ended up refinancing it so for those who don't know it's like you know go to the bank get a brand new loan and so i got a brand new loan on it that was like a 30-year mortgage so i didn't have to worry about paying it off anytime soon and then it like just rented it out to some dude he was like a contractor and all of a sudden i was making more money on rent than what my mortgage and all expenses was uh so i was making cash flow and like it was actually super i mean relatively super easy and i was like this rental thing is kind of cool so that's how it kind of started the idea into rentals what was your job though at the time because you had to have an income i didn't have the job actually so this is now i mean i had the job i quit the job to flip that house right so i had no job while i was slopping the house and then i couldn't refinance can't refinance without a job right so actually to refinance it i wouldn't ask my dad i was like i was like i'm like 22 at the time i'm like hey can i just add you on to the mortgage and just so your name's attached to it and then we go to the bank and now it's your name on it he's like i don't care and i was like i'll give you you know someday i think i said like someday i'll give you half the profit when i sell the property whenever we do he's like ah okay that's fine and so yeah we added them on to the property and then i went and refinanced it and that idea of like the adding the partners on i mean i've done that now on almost every deal i've ever done i've done with partners because like the big thing with real estate is everyone's like well i don't have enough money i can't afford to do it i can't you know there's tons of people out there who have money and they just don't have the time or the i mean they're not sitting here watching a youtube video or listening to a podcast they are maybe they are they probably are know there's people with money and then there's people who have hustle yeah and if you can put that together i mean it's it's sometimes people have both right but it's rare most people either they have a job they're working at the county they're working out the state whatever they're making good money they're a lawyer working 200 000 you know hours a year but uh yeah so now i do partnerships for almost everything and what year was this the the flip attempt yeah that would have been 08 i think the first flip was a weight and i decided that flipping yeah flipping wasn't really for me i tried a few more times never really made any money lost a little bit of money sometimes but the rental thing just kept working like you just every rental you buy i once heard this analogy every rental is like a little oil well right little oil well you can text that's right you drive through this oil pump and oil out of the ground every rental you buy is an oil well so you have one and you're making 100 bucks a month it's like well that's not very much then you buy a duplex and now you're making you know two or three hundred a month then you buy another little duplex and then you're making 500 a month and just each one is just pumping oil out of the ground every day every month every year and it adds up so by the time i was 27 i had like 3 500 bucks a month in cash flow and i was like i am the richest person i know so i quote my i got another job at the time just to pay some bills quit that job and sat on the couch and retired when i was 27. did you yeah i mean i literally sat on the couch and watched tv for like three or four months did you like that no it was terrible it was why what was bad about that yeah i mean daytime tv is terrible right [Laughter] there's just like i i think like i don't know if it's like i i don't know i i'm so much of my life is wrapped up in like my identity of like being a hard worker so then all of a sudden you just sit down and do nothing there just wasn't fulfilling whatsoever i think i have this theory that anybody who's able to retire early in life can't retire early in life uh it's like if you're able if you're smart enough and you are good enough and you work hard enough to retire at a young age you just never take it and like they have stats that show when people even older people when they retire you can you can predict someone's age of death by when they retire you're you know you retire at whatever 65 you'll die at like 75. but you retire at 75 and die 85. this is something that like humans are built to work and built to keep the mind going oh my gosh all right well that's it sorry bailey so i want to know the exact events that happened in the timeline to get to like being 27 making 3 500 a month because i'm kind of in the beginning of that journey where i got my first property and i want to start leveling up and getting more properties and making more like you know income doing this but it seems like it seems very difficult to like get to where you were at 27. how did you do that exactly yeah all right let's talk about house hacking so yeah all right so i'll backtrack a little bit back in when i did that very first flip right i sold the first house uh where i made a little bit of money and got married right then i needed a place to live because i'm broke so i flip at the same time i bought that house to flip the first one that was a failure and then i bought a duplex i didn't know anything about duplexes i didn't know anything really even at the time about rentals i just bought it was a duplex for sale for 80 000 it was two houses on one lot so they weren't even connected there's a little yard in between one of them was a one bedroom one bath 400 square foot house that's what i lived in they call them like casitas in some areas they call them ohana's out in hawaii they call them mother-in-law apartments whatever so i'm gonna sell a one-bedroom one-bath house literally like six inches from the alleyway where like just people are like going through on bicycles and doing drugs and stuff and then the front house was a two bedroom one bath again a little tiny house but i remember the day i mean it vividly in my imaginary not measuring vividly in my head i remember the tenant in the front unit the first day bringing me rent and he brings me cash like 650 bucks and it totally looks like a drug deal because we're like in the driveway between these two houses and next to an alleyway and it gives me the 650 and i'm like holding this and i remember just like thinking wait a second my mortgage is 620 and this is 650 i'm living for free i'm getting paid to live for free i'm making 30 bucks a month again i'm like super rich right i'm at the time you know again i'm like 21 at this point 22 somewhere in there and uh like that was just like this light bulb moment and i remember thinking also if i had a lot of them like then that would be cash flow it's kind of how i started discovering cash flow i started then somebody recommended it oh if you're into this go read rich dad poor dad so i read rich dad poor dad i'm like yes like it's like that book put words to like this like groaning in my soul right it was like i know there's something out there that's not that's not the work 90 hours a week for 40 years just to retire the you know and be the richest dead guy right like there's more to life than that and rich dad poor dad was like this is here's some words to put to that why you feel that way so rich dad poor dad started there then i went to the library and i read 100 books over a summer like probably over 100 but i remember i stopped counting around 100. 100 books on real estate just everything i could find on it and it really just came down to at the time of every house this was literally my thought at the time if every property i buy i could make a hundred dollars in profit and i need roughly three grand to pay my bills i just need to collect units i just need to collect them so i don't care how i get them so it started with house hacking so i bought the duplex lived in one unit then i went and moved into another duplex and lived in one of the units rented the other one out and the great thing about house hacking is the government subsidizes a loan called fha you've probably talked about the show before but like fha loans are three and a half percent down so if you're gonna buy a hundred thousand dollar property you're paying 3 500 bucks and that can be gifted from like a family member so you could literally like you know get into a property for really nothing if you're a military person you get in for zero down same thing uh so if and again some people are like well hundred thousand dollars you can't do that okay fine three hundred thousand dollars you're in for 12 grand like it's not a ridiculous amount of money to be able to do that and if you're buying the in the fha loan works for duplex or single family duplex triplex fourplex so one of the best strategies in the world i tell new investors all the time is go buy the fourplex if you can't if you can find it or triplex but if you can live in one of the units you have to say you're gonna live it for a year you have to intend to live there for a year you live in one unit you can rent the other ones out what that does is if you can live for free or even just cheaper right if you can live for cheaper or buy a house with bedrooms right rent the bedrooms out especially if you're young dang like if you can get rid of that burden of your housing payment which is the biggest expense anyone has all of a sudden you have like flexibility and all of a sudden you can set aside money to invest or to build a business or you can take a big risk and be like well i'm not paying anything to live anyway i'm living cheap so i'm gonna go and you know go take a job at this startup which is probably gonna fail but if it does do well i'll make millions and so you can take those risks in life which you can't do when you're just strapped with debt and mortgages and everything yeah people will spend what's crazy people will spend so much time and effort worried about how to like save four bucks on a latte right and there's something about frugality i'm a big fan right i know you talk a lot about that right but how often are people thinking how do i save a thousand or two thousand dollars a month on where i live oh if i just have like a duplex i can drop my mortgage i can save a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars a month just by having a tenant and yeah is that easy not always but it's not that hard either like it's just like a stuff you learn so anyway house hacking is how really i built up the first like four or five properties was just move in rent it out move rent it out move rent it out and uh from there you get into multi-family and then it gets fun yeah i loved my duplex i have to say i loved it that was so much fun and uh i got so into basically tracking just what the mortgage would be and i'd add in the tax write-offs and then i'd count the equity back and be like technically now with this and then i'm paying down this mortgage but like 800 i think it was like 800 or 900 a month of that was uh equity and i'm like every day that's 30 yep 30 bucks a day that's over a dollar an hour so i'd be like i'll wake up and i'll be like well i just got another eight bucks yep yeah i loved it i loved it such a great way to get and it's like it's like real estate investing with training wheels right because like it's not like super risky you're not putting that much money into it you got a long-term mortgage that really like it's it's fixed it's not going anywhere it's staying the same right and if something goes wrong i mean you're there like so i remember like yeah like maybe three times a year i get a phone call about some problem and i'd have to go fix some leak i could have called up you know contractor but i just like to tinker and try to fix things myself so i'd get like the book from home depot it's called like one two three home improvement like here's how you fix the plumbing leak and i'd figure it out just because it was fun but yeah that stuff man like it's just character building but also skill building and that i still you know man it's it's still what i love today like i still i mean i house hack right now i live in hawaii i have like a two ish million dollar house and like i have an extra unit in the back i rent out yeah uh and then i have a basement i could rent out if i wanted to i just keep it for friends and family but i get at any point rent it out and then live for free in a two million dollar house overlooking the ocean in hawaii like this works at any level like it i can vouch for that i saw this place it is is it nice nice oh man you drive up the driveway and the house is up at the top and then he's got the pool and then this entire like your office the seashell yeah the shed yeah and then a property in the back and a huge backyard where they grow up oh it's gone like vegetables the backyard's gone why yeah we hit by a flash flood last week i haven't seen it yet but you see that flash flood came through it's crazy like it took the whole backyard out no the garden the tables everything i mean it's gone um you know it's funny you were just telling me it never rains it rained 17 inches i think it was in like a night no it rains three inches a year and i'm in the desert like basically like a classified desert and uh they got this freak storm it took my whole yeah my wife was at home with the kids yeah she's calling me i'm at like this honky tonk bar in like nashville with a bunch of friends having a great time that's why i lost my voice right and she called me she's like the house is gonna collapse and like she's like freaked out yeah and uh yeah it was messed up so anyway i get to go back home here in a few days and apparently i have no backyard so but insurance would actually not because no flood insurance no flood insurance i mean why would i get flinch i'm on a hill and i like i'm on a hill in the desert like there's no reason for me i would ever thought to get flood insurance now that said i mean what's what's 10 15 20 grand to fix it up it's not into the world like more than that i mean like excavation of all the mud and stuff like that yeah but i got see i got some contractors that like live out there that work for me so like they just like for the first i mean they've been out there for a week every day now so i mean i'll probably be in for 15 20 grand and it's like okay well it's not the end of the world right yeah it's not terrible and this is you know things like that scare people when i talk about this people are like oh that's why i don't want to get into real estate right like i'm like it's just it's like what's that quote if you have a problem that can be solved by money and you have money you don't have a problem and so it's easy to get overwhelmed by that stuff and be like oh man it's uh you're like no just write a check like it's not a big deal speaking of that i'll take a screenshot of this this is a repair so i've gone a little while without a repair and this came up i'll show you a picture of this so this was uh part well not partly my fault i was an idiot is that the main line uh yep hey mainline brothers oh yeah so you're right so you're looking at uh i think it was 7 800 yeah so let me tell you this this was my mistake i had an issue a year ago and uh they basically said for two grand we can make this work it'll fix it it's not going to be a permanent solution but this could last you a year it can last you 10 years it's just it's it's a pipe from the 1950s so they're like you know we're going to do a quick and it i think they quoted me at the time like ten thousand to fix it the right way so i figured i'm just gonna pay the two grand and problem solved yeah exactly a year later when he was telling me it could last year but a year later yeah and then uh they ended up refixing what i fixed a year ago because they're like it's easier for us to do the entire thing all at once than keep their work yep explain what happened so you didn't say oh yeah so what happened was basically uh the pipe was really old it was i think it was a ceramic or something from there from the 1950s uh over time roots got into it so they've been hydro jetting it but uh i didn't hydrogen for a little while and it cracked the pipe and then over time the pipe kind of shifted yeah and uh water basically started backing up so that sounds fun but like it's one of those things right you if you have a problem and you have money they can solve it you don't have a problem uh it sucks especially when you have a rental that like you rely on it to bring bringing money but here's the thing this is probably like the if i get like one tip for anybody who wants to get into real estate it's this like know that that stuff does happen and it happens all the time it's not like a shock it's not like oh my gosh i can't believe that you know of course everything breaks down the so if you account for it like then you're fine i mean for example like what i mean by that is like let's say you buy a property and you're like this thing is gonna rent out for a thousand dollars a month my mortgage is gonna be 800 a month wow i'm making 200 a month in profit no you're not like i would set aside at least 100 if not 200 every single month for that because it only happens once every couple years but it does happen and then you know like two three years from now you're gonna have another you have a roof leak and that's gonna be three grand to fix it your water heater is gonna go out in five years and it's putting one of those in it happens all the time we call that capex uh it's it's it is a real number it just it doesn't happen monthly and so people forget about it and so they buy property thinking it's going to make them money and then in reality it just loses the money now thankfully we say real estate is a forgiving asset class my buddy david who's on the podcast the bigger pockets podcast with me he calls he says cash flow is a defensive metric it's not designed cash flow's not designed to make you rich it's designed to help you hold on long enough like riding a bronco you know or a bull you know if you're in a row you got to hold on like it's like duct taping your legs to the bowl right like you're not going to fall off if you have cash flow because you can handle things like that but what you really want is to hang on long enough that 10 years later that property's gone up in value because yeah real estate goes up and down but it goes up and down an upward trend and so like i said that house that i sold at 130 dropped till under 100. now it's worth two something like it's just it's the way real estate tends to work especially when the government's printing as much money as there so if you can hang on long enough real estate is phenomenal uh and then the cash flow is good in the meantime too i don't think we ever mentioned where exactly you were buying initially yeah oh actually yeah that so this actually plays into my story a little bit this is cool so that very first duplex right i lived in the alleyway right that little crappy house and had the had the tenant there uh this is in aberdeen washington so aberdeen washington technically hoke washington but grays harbor county washington which uh is famous only for one thing so grace harbor is famous because that's where nirvana came out of i remember kurt cobain nirvana that whole thing came out of aberdeen uh so anyway so my house there this little crappy duplex uh after about a year of owning it uh the tenants were like hey people keep taking pictures of our house and i was like what do you mean taking pictures of the house yeah we just keep seeing flashes through our windows and i was like nah the county must be reappraising or something right and then it went several years the tenant would be like yeah more people taking pictures couldn't figure it out for a while finally we learned what it was when some swedish tourists knocked on the door and they wanted a tour of the cobain house no and we're like the cobain house and we find out and i look it up online i find out it was the house he was born in like on his birth certificate like not literally on the floor but like that's his parents where his parents were in both houses they lived in this little shack in the back where i lived when he was born and then at six months old they moved into the front house and they lived in that i'm the only person who owns two of kurt cobain's former houses he's still on it i actually just sold that a few months no no no no no i know because obviously if you can afford to hold on to that i know that's a piece of history i know it was cool and i loved it i had it for 15 years it was cool but the bragging rights like the cool story that it's fun to tell right it's a cool story it wasn't worth just the mental headache of hanging on to that problem what's the headache it was in a crappy neighborhood like it was an alleyway i mean it's so like it just attracted like rough tenants like i always like to say like bad like rough houses attract rough tenants and and so like i like nasty properties attract nasty people it just is what it is they know dude do things know this is kurt cobain's house we tell the tenant after they move in but i don't i don't want to advertise it because i don't want the kind of person who would rent like would rent a house because it's kurt cobain i don't know seriously if you may be able to charge higher rent yeah you'll be able to charge higher rates and you would attract a better tenant who could here's the thing i think it was a marketing problem because you're marketing this normal house i agree and that would attract those sort of tenants you market this as kurt cobain's house you're in uh what was it realist.com you get in all the magazines and online i did think of that because they were selling one of his other houses yeah a million bucks but so so here's the thing it's like you're going to attract tenant who's okay with the the less desirable area even though they're a higher caliber tenant because it's kurt cobain's house and they they get the bragging right it was a crappy house though it doesn't matter dumpy house it doesn't matter i feel like that it's hard to replace that kirkovan's house in hollywood is very similar to that and it's run down i think it's like empty and you get these youtube people who like sneak into the house film it but uh stuff like that like you get a bit of a premium yeah we thought about turning into airbnb and we kicked it around for a while but i didn't want the headache of it and then i thought about you know selling it as like you know like it was like baby house right so it's not like there's another house in town where he's like his writing is all over the walls like that house is like people are like that's the cobain house i just have the baby house so i kept it and then finally i was like here's here's actually why i sold it i do what's called a return on equity calculation right so you look how much equity on your property how much you'd actually make if you sold it and then you say well how much cash flow did i make last year compared to how much i would have if i sold it and my return on equity was like 1.3 percent i'm like well shoot i'm making no money on this thing i might as well just go and stick in the stock market and make more than one percent so it was it was a financial thing but i'm actually selling almost everything i own in that town like what what got me to financial freedom is those first deals which is great i don't regret any of that but that's now though that's a hindrance to me becoming like the next level of whatever that is right i couldn't i don't think i could have bought the 3000 units without getting rid of the 30 that i started with it's just a mental drain on like you know the 3000 units actually take more or take less effort to manage than the 30. by far i mean because i have a team and i have people there's like there's systems for the 3000 but the 30 they're mine or mine with a partner and that was just it was a headache so let it go so you're liquidating all of your own personal yeah all the ones that i i own alone i want to get rid of pretty much all of them i mean some of them just like they still print money like an atm machine and i like i like them but it's it's just about like freeing up as much as i can like mental energy to not have to think about that stuff to move it on so yeah getting rid of a lot of the early stuff crazy wow yeah sorry coco cricket bands is gone so how did you scale from being 3 500 bucks a month into now i don't even know a million and a half in revenue and also at what point did you get into bigger pockets with that place yeah so that yeah so remember i said the internet marketing thing right so i sat on the couch started getting internet marketing really liked the idea like making videos like you go back and watch my very first video i'm not this animated i'm like sitting in a chair like holding on where can we find those videos yeah it's on early bigger pockets really yeah it's terrible oh here we go webinar the advanced guide to analyzing it all right yeah i remember that you look so different yeah i had i think i had glasses and no beard maybe yeah oh wow look at the intro oh so good look at that home for real estate investing online but my first webinar i ever did i've now done probably 500 webinars but that was the very first so what was this webinar for i just i think i was just like i'm gonna do a webinar so josh dawkin by the way started bigger pockets this is it started his basement it was a little hobby kind of blog for him and uh i started like he he grew it it was like bigger when it was a blog around the blog right so people would ask questions in this q a forum and i actually found bigger pockets i remember what i searched i searched youtube for what to do when tenants don't pay rent because i had a family member who was like don't do real estate man don't do real estate it's terrible like you know uncle whatever lost his shirt right everyone's got a story of an uncle who lost his shirt and really always the uncle he's always the uncle and there's a lot of uncle shirts missing somewhere and so uh and they're like well your tenant's not gonna pay rent and you know you're gonna end up like having to cover it yourself and you won't be able to you're gonna lose all your money and be homeless and live under a bridge yourself it was like this like a real estate horrible kind of speech right so i went to google and i was like what to do when tenants don't pay rent and i find this cycle bigger pockets i remember printing out the article not that the like the answer was fine i'm sure it was a good answer i don't remember what the answer said but what it told me was there was answers to all those like naysayers right just like when people were like yo you shouldn't invest in crypto or you shouldn't invest in the stock market it's risky you shouldn't be an entrepreneur shouldn't start a business everyone's got like this reason why you shouldn't but when you get around people who are actually doing it it's like it's it's so freeing you're like oh like i can actually do it because other people are doing it right like nobody knows like if you don't know real estate like why would you listen to those people about whether you can do it or not so i found bigger pockets i started uh helping out just well asking questions in the forums like people can go back to my early posts and be like i'm like how do i buy a duplex you know i'm asking all these questions and that led to uh me meaning josh dorkan so again at the time it was just kind of a hobby for him then he kind of made it a business but it was still pretty small at the time and i started editing blog posts for him he's just like hey i'm looking for some help can you edit i'm like i can edit it was a lie i couldn't edit i don't know how to i don't really i didn't know the difference between like there there and there right i just like pretend i'm like oh yeah i'm really good at english why did you want to join so bad did he have a lot of credentials uh no but at the time i had another blog it was called real estate your 20s this is my entry into uh investing uh i mean uh and my entry into internet marketing so i had real estate your 20s.com still there right now i just haven't updated it a decade but the idea was like i'm a big believer that when it comes to internet marketing or any marketing really but i want to be the intersection of two points right so it was real estate for young people in your 20s and it actually worked pretty well it started growing and started doing better but the way back in the day maybe it still works this way but the way that it really worked was you'd go and guest post on somebody else's blog who is bigger i guess on youtube you go and you know jv with somebody on a youtube channel right so i was guest blogging for josh as a way to grow mine and then when he was looking for help like i mean i'm making three grand a month like it wasn't that much money at the time and i'm like well he's going to pay me to do this and i think it was i think he paid me like a hundred bucks a post to like edit it and then post it on the blog so i was making some money at that point i was just like a 1099 contractor and uh we just found out we liked each other we like started talking every day and like the few hours of editing blog posts turned into like nine hours of working straight through and just chatting on on skype at the time and then that led to hey maybe we should start a podcast and that's when the biggerpockets podcast started as we we started a podcast i remember i was thinking like i want to be like top 100 business podcast within five years that was like our goal we wrote down it was like the first week we were like number five and like never dropped below number 20 in the last nine years how did you scale so quickly uh i mean we had an email list so by that point josh had an email list i remember he hit a hundred thousand people on his email list that's good yeah that was good yeah what year was that that would have been oh shoot 2011. not bad yeah 2011 2012. yeah so i mean he has spent a decade building that list a lot of people like falsely think that i started bigger pockets no i came in like a decade after josh the reason that bigger pockets is successful is not because i came in even though that's when it hockey sticked up but that wasn't because of me it was because josh did 10 years of making no money there's such a lesson in this right like almost everybody i know who is really successful in business there was years of not making any money before it hockey sticked up every once in a while you see somebody who's just like oh yeah right off the bat they did it right but most of the time there's years of you what you don't see and majority people give up somewhere in that right they get excited about their business and then it's like oh the reality sets in and then they give up but josh stuck with it for years and years and years until he finally had enough money to be able to hire his very first person which was me and so then i came in to help edit blog posts in the podcast and then it just grew from there so now the email list and i don't know why the podcast took off and we were early obviously like i mean at the time it's funny at the time i thought we were so late i was like everybody's got a podcast it's 2011. like everybody has a podcast and like they're good look at these podcasts and so i never like is crazy yeah and then it just became the biggest real estate podcast right away and never really left that and so it became the just a big show so yeah crazy 550 episodes later so why leave yeah and we should go into that before we go into more real estate we're on the topic yeah uh so i love i still love bigger pockets i love it very much and still i'm still part owner of the company uh i will maintain that and i'll still be around like we're still together but i just have this like one i live in hawaii now i got two little kids two and five and just like selling my old rental properties i needed to clear that mental bandwidth out of my life bigger pockets i needed to break from the like like now it's a monotony because it's really actually enjoyable the podcast and youtube but i needed a break from that so i can refocus on family and on you know the real estate company that i built um odc uh and so like we decided my wife and i were like i think this is time to just step back let the company do what it does because here's a problem right when you have a company that is heavily dependent upon one person now i mean there's 50 people that work at bigger pockets and they're all amazing but when people think bigger pockets they think of me like a lot of people do right how do you sell a business someday or how do you how do you go public i mean i don't know where bigger pockets gonna sell or go public again like it sold a few years ago partially but like how do you eventually liquidate a company when it's dependent on one person you can't it's really really really hard and so we all knew this was a band-aid that we had to rip off at some point that we had to get out of me being the center and so it was kind of a might as well do it now before like you know have to do eventually oh it's so tough because for a while i believed that you were bigger pockets yeah see a lot of people everyone is like oh brandon from bigger pockets it's just like it's flowed so nicely and as you as the face of that was like hey some guy's really into real estate house hacking who gets down to the nitty-gritty it's like it's a good story it's a good image and it's like everyone can relate to that yeah yeah and it was it's a it was great and i'm not saying i'm gone forever i like the idea of thinking like so here's what it was this is an interesting thing so i have a performance coach his name's jason dries he's awesome and he asked yes as a good performance coach does they ask good questions and then it's almost like therapy it's it's it's like he we're talking about me being just stressed out and i feel like i'm working too many hours and like i don't work that many hours but when like many hours is too many hours when i've got little kids that i'd rather be with and so he said have you ever thought about taking a sabbatical just like take a month off and i was like oh that's a really good question because i do that do i need a sabbatical and as soon as i said yeah i'm going to take a month i mean i went nine years without missing an episode i think i had one episode somewhere in the middle where i missed but i went nine years it was me every single week i'm the continuity and all of a sudden i was like huh i could take a month off i can i can detach my identity from the podcast for a little bit and as soon as i did that i tore something like it like tore the the connection between me and i have to be the guy in the podcast i have to be the one doing it i have to be the one running every piece of my company and once i tore that a little bit it was no longer attached i was like oh well if i'm gonna take a month off what if i took three months off and then like five minutes later i'm like what if i took six months off and then i was like what if i take indefinitely off and it was doable i could not go from brandon on the podcast to leaving the podcast but i had to once i just tore that a little bit it opened up the rest which is just a weird like psychological thing that i think a lot of people go through their identity is in their job or in their career in that whatever that is and they just it's so hard to leave that so finally came time and yeah they'll do fine if people love the the brand bigger pockets are so strong now that they'll do all right yeah how do the episodes do when you're not in them uh some of them do really well uh what people like uh is the data a lot we found that people like data a lot so we've got you know david green everyone loves david green he's my co-host and he's really good at metaphors he's one of the smartest people i've ever met and they love david but they also we have we have a new show now we're on the same channel where they're going through data like here's all this crazy information about the real estate market and here's what it means and people love those shows i'm not that guy like i can't tell you what the you know per capita income is of cleveland i don't care like that's not how that's not my job i can hype you up and i get you really excited about real estate and i can explain why it's good and 100 a month and you know little oil wells i love that stuff but i'm not a data guy so it's good they'll uh they'll experiment but you know you ever watch what's the show called kelly and live with kelly and rachel oh it used to be so it was regis and kathy lee right yeah originally so this is probably before like when i was in like high school then kathy lee left and it was regis and kelly yeah then regis left and it was kelly and michael then michael left and was kelly and ryan so i liked michael yeah michael was cool right yeah yeah straight stathan strathan them yeah yeah yeah yeah i loved you yeah he was so funny this is a talk show or something yeah morning like morning like today show kind of thing oh okay jack's too young to remember yes exactly yeah this was so today's ryan seacrest and so every time that happens in that show people are like this show sucks like ever because like you get used to the people like imagine if something like you left the show right people were like like this guy's right like or if you left people would be like hey we miss them bring them back right but they get over it and people will get over it and there's gonna be a dip probably and they'll be like well we want brandon back because that's what they're used to and then they'll get somebody else in there and then they'll get used to that person and i'll pop back and be like hey i'm still alive yeah that'll be fun so yeah it's crazy interesting yeah so what are you working on over the next year oh man i don't know uh i really want to get better at surfing yeah it's a big piece of it uh i want to write another book or two i've written a bunch and i like writing a lot so i'll probably write a book or two maybe if i get bored but man i just want to like i want to watch my kids grow up you know you don't get that again right i mean you guys don't have kids yet right but i always just have another kid though i could have another kid i want more kids kids are so much fun there's a horrible amount of work but it's so rewarding and so i'd love to have another kid so i can practice that throughout the year it'll be great get it thanks joe but uh oh anyway so uh yeah please this show just went pg-13 so that's all yeah i i don't really know but i want that i think it's just really good for people to have more mar what they call a margin in your life uh whether it's in your day like when i wake up in the morning the days that i start with like a buffer like that margin uh just my days go better yeah what do you mean margin like um space between when you wake up and when you get to work right or even like in your day like taking five minute breaks like having margin like edges around your day or in the middle of your day that just breaks things up so you're not just like thinking the thing the thing to think but taking time to just like like relax and like think in fact i do a thing every single week i have this like amazing massage therapist lady from the four seasons hotel comes to my house i'm elena you stood on that front porch right and she gives me a 90 minute massage and my wife gets like a 90 minute massage every week it's crazy expensive right to do the same time one at a time right so i think it's a couple hundred bucks a week maybe each person right a couple hundred away each person yeah i think i think it's a hundred and fifty i don't know these numbers i think it's like 150 bucks and for an hour and a half that's way way but and she comes to you yeah it comes to me that's cheap yeah i mean it's not bad for a massage correct to come to you for an hour and a half yeah it's not bad it's not terrible right yeah but you do it now it's but you made my wife both now it's 300 a week times four it's 1200 bucks a month let's call it some people would say that's a frivolous waste of money that is the most profitable hour and a half of my week by far when i'm on that massage table because that's buffer that's margin in my life where the first at the first hour of that right there's a this is important 90 minutes is more to me anyway 90 minutes matters 60 minutes doesn't do just like a 60 minute run doesn't do it for me a 90 minute run changes my life and here's why the first hour of that like boredom no phone no nothing your brain's like bored first of all it's trying to like find ways to get the dopamine hit that you get every time you swipe right and for the first hour it's like just all over just scrambled you're thinking of a hundred different things but then at some point in there your brain starts to think of something that's important you get through the clutter and it starts to focus on a thing some problem in your life or some situation or some business idea and so i liken it to a tornado right so a tornado like it's whirling around like this really fast and then it starts to like cycle it on something and then you get just on some topic in your head in the last 30 minutes that massage is where like i would say 9 out of 10 of my best ideas for whether it's video content or uh i mean business ideas problems that i'm going with in business how to go like open door capital like you know the company i founded like so much of that has been because of that that margin that time so going back the year that i'm that i'm taking off is really designed to be a year of just margin uh people call them sabbaticals so like that's what it's about just taking that time in fact i have that margin every week friday night at sunset like we shut off our phones no phone no tv unless it's like a family movie uh which is like a you know a cool thing to do right but like it's margin there's no phone there's no work there's no shopping we don't go shopping we don't spend money other than maybe go to coffee together and it it forces you to slow down and just add that margin in your week so i'm all about like margin of my day margin my week and now margin in my life and so when you add that in there it just adds a richness and a depth to your life that i think i lacked for a long time and the more i lean into that uh the more happy and fulfilled i am getting i want a massage now let's do right now come on uh you used to get them man yeah i did so i was about to say so uh in l.a at the oppenheim group right below there was this massage place that had happy hour of massage get this 35 dollars for an hour and it was the best massage it's great because i've tried a few since then in other places and i've yet to find one i'm really happy with and some of them they hurt like i went to one it was a good deal i think it was like and here they're expensive i think it was like 80 bucks yeah they're expensive yes it was like eighty dollars for an hour which is normal the other place was really cheap 35 is really cheap yeah but the entire thing was a painful experience and like she found a knot and yeah yeah sometimes it hurts and it was like this isn't relaxing to me this doesn't help me now i'm just like i'm trying to like breathe through the pain but the the one in la was so relaxing and it got to a point where i i would usually do one about once every week and a half or so but i'd come up with some of the video ideas yeah because it's just like you you don't think of anything and just ideas come through and i'm like oh that's a good idea and entirely i'm sometimes like oh i should write that down but i don't yeah but i come out of him like three ideas i started leaving a notebook so you know how you have the massage table it has like the the circle you put your face in it so you're looking down at the ground usually i started literally putting a notebook and a pen underneath that and the massage lady just knows she knows that like in the middle of that i'll just stop like hold on and i can reach it because my arms are like ridiculously long they call me the human selfie stick so like i will reach down and i'll just write the idea down so i don't forget it uh you can also take your phone just like do a voice memo like underneath you know the massage person's gonna think you're crazy but it's uh yeah it's so powerful adding that breaks in your life that's why people like meditation i'm not a huge meditation guy right but it's the same concept just taking time to slow down it's it's huge i'm doing that every day now meditation plan okay yeah that's cool it's pretty good good ah i'm i'm pretty like uh wiry yeah yeah like it's difficult for me to like sit down and chill for a second like i'm always like i just want to like give if i'm ready to work if i want to meditate that means i'm like good enough to work yeah like for example i was meditating last night but i'm like i just want to set up my ikea occurrences right now yeah you know yeah i i did the meditation thing for a few months and uh it helped but then i missed a few days it's like oh everything's fine i just stopped yeah but uh and now i'm so but i don't know yeah i think it helped but i don't i didn't do it long enough to really see it through like i was not as consistent after a few months yeah i think it's one of those things that like you do for years and you look back and you're like oh i can see a big difference in my life because of that yeah i don't do it regularly i'm not i'm not graded i try to and i feel like there's benefit there but i just i don't do it what other routines or life hacks do you do besides like massages and and these like what would be unique that that other people could do yeah um i'm a pretty big like goal planning kind of guy uh like journaling like uh so almost every morning i tried this i i write down like my top three goals every morning like these are the three things i'm going for so once a court well let me back up i've got a very clear vision on where i'm headed with my company with my life all that uh there's a great book called vivid vision by a guy named cameron harold it's all about like having a very clear picture of where your head not like a mission statement not like a number but like this is a 3 000 word article like this is what i wrote or a 3000 word article about my company like written it three years in the future it was like this is what we do that's what we are this is what our team looks like this is what the media thinks about us is as if it was like an article in the new york times right so i start with this vision i work to like every year annual goal so actually just that's why i'm here in town right now we're doing our annual goal setting tomorrow with my company so we're gonna figure out the whole next year then i do like quarterlys where i'm like this is what i'm doing this quarter i take that to my journal and i'm like what are the three goals i'm working on this quarter and what are the habits i track my habits pretty meticulously so things like i call them lead habits right there's certain habits that if you do they benefit a lot of areas of life for example if i go to bed by like 10 o'clock at night i know that the next morning it's way more likely i'm gonna work out it's way more likely to be really rested and feel really good it's way more likely i'm going to then like make a good video and actually want to go do a podcast so there's like that one thing of going to bed by 10 o'clock affects so many other areas of my life i'll be better for my kids and not so i track things like that every single morning i write down my goals every morning i write down what i call your mins mins it's like your most important next step i mean think about this way uh if if everything like if you had your goal you know where you wanted and you know what you're gonna get for the quarter and you know what you want to do uh you know this week even like i've defined this week i want to do this most people that's as far as they ever take it they're like i want to go to the gym this week but or i want to make i'm going to make a youtube video let's do that one right i'm going to make a youtube video this week and then the week goes by and they never made the youtube video and and really when you break it down almost everything in life is a series of five minute or less tasks almost everything so i started asking myself the question like what is the m-i-n-s most important next step like the smallest tangible thing and it literally might be like open up my evernote and look at my list of video ideas like that's it it's a three second task and then so i have the goal i have the week i have my most important next step open up evernote and then ask myself again like right after that okay what's my means m-i-n-s so every single morning i write down what my goal is why i want the goal and then i write down what my most important next step is to get it done then i put on my calendar so i'm just very meticulous about that and it's it's helped a lot in a lot of areas of life i don't business you know personal fitness family all that stuff so i know i'm probably kind of a weirdo with goals but it works for me that's really cool i like it i love the mints thing that's really cool uh let's do it on you right now what's the goal you want to achieve in life a goal i want to achieve in life we want to do real estate you want to buy some rentals first thing i thought of was uh probably having a family okay do you have a girlfriend wife anything like that no okay uh yeah you wanna we don't get you a girlfriend we gotta work on that first date all right so we wanna get one date what's what's your most important next step i'm getting a date and getting getting a date what's the smallest less than five minute task that you should be doing to get a probably finding a girl we can't get let's get more specific what can you do probably look better maybe get a haircut okay let's go with that let's go save my neck what's the what's that what's the most important next step on getting a haircut uh what's your mainline haircut uh looking up or actually there's a great clips down the street okay what's your most important next step for getting a haircut uh getting my car and going to great clips okay would you have to schedule appointment or anything no okay you just gotta go yeah okay when are you gonna do that well i just don't okay oh you're the the excuse what time are you doing man you're saying no you said no you said what's a goal i want in life okay i wanna have a good happy family okay but i'm only 23. i just turned 23. so i think that's something i want to do but i don't think that's something that's like a pressing thing sure okay so maybe that's not the ideal thing but you get the idea right like i like that it's like especially nice like especially if you're like hammering it out and you know you do this people pay branded big money for this you realize people pay brandon like five grand well here's just just what he's doing to you right now you follow along it's super simple though so in other words this amazing life goal of like what you want to accomplish is to have kids and a family like you can think of how amazing that is it all comes down to you just going to great clips right or whatever super cuts i don't know like your entire life is is all dependent on this one simple act of getting a haircut right now that's it why aren't you getting a haircut man why are you still sitting here like go get your hair no you're right timing it doesn't matter right right that's good but people are like hey i want i hate my job i want to get out of my job i'm like okay well what's your most important they want oh i want to buy rental property i want to get uh 3 000 a month in cash flow great what's your most important what's most important next step they're like well i gotta buy a rental what's your most important next step uh i gotta find a real estate agent great what's your most important next step uh i gotta go on you know and they'll they'll usually like oh no right go to if you go to facebook and ask family and friends hey does anybody know a good real estate agent in las vegas that takes 30 seconds to make that post do you know a great real estate agent in las vegas and it'll probably get you what you want your entire future the next 80 years of your life enjoying life having wealth like living an amazing incredible life all comes down to 30 seconds but you know what people will go 30 years without doing that task it's a 30-second task and they'll go 30 years without doing it and they'll wake up with 60 70 years old overweight like you know divorced four times and they're like why isn't my life working out because they didn't do the 30 second task when they knew they needed to because they just don't think about it so i'm i'm really big on this idea like go work backwards from what you want and everything is a five minute or less task so that was crazy really good holy do that again yeah do it now actually graham we're gonna do it to you right now let's do it let's be fun you ready so what what's the financial goal you have you want to buy or do or gosh a business idea man i want to lower my taxes okay you want to lower your taxes great it's great taxes all right you lower your taxes what are you too late for this year what's the mo is it you get two weeks how where uh i don't know what's your most important next step to find that answer i i'm worried about rushing it but uh i already asked you yeah okay so and you and you said no i i don't have anything closing this year yeah i know uh ryan pineda uh was it was another person but he uh he didn't have anything closing this year okay and uh too late on that so i have two weeks basically to spend money on something that that i feel like shouldn't be rushed i feel like it's probably too late for this yeah maybe what's your most important next step to find out who could you what's your most important accept that you could ask who could you ask i could ask you okay so when's the next deal that you have coming up i don't have a deal but we're just finished we just raised the fund but you could yeah like can i get in that fund uh no i don't think so i think we're full sorry uh but i've got a duplex that kurt cobain used to live in [Laughter] no uh but yeah but uh for example i'm part of a group it's called go abundance right so it's all millionaires you have three million dollar plus net worth to be in it and there's a facebook group where people post in there so because you're asking me do i have any suggestions for you i'd be like well i could post in there and just say hey i mean anybody have any ideas i got a buddy who's looking to whatever so in less than a five minute task for me i can post in this group and somebody might have a deal coming there's hundreds of real estate investors in the group that do exactly what i do so that's an option don't you feel like it's a bit rushed if i have two weeks to basically spend that amount of money yeah and i don't want to rush a deal unless unless the perfect thing comes up it's like hey we got this commercial space put a million in it and yeah it's just closing in right in that time yeah um yeah so i'm kind of screwed not necessarily no i don't need ten model i wanted to build out the other garage so could you buy a jet no grant cardone style i've thought about so many things no there's just there's nothing real estate was the only thing that i thought would be good but i'm too late in the air real estate is i introduce you by the way to my buddy who does the uh the what's it called the you buy real estate and save a lot of money on taxes because you buy a commercial so you got an email in there oh but you won't close by the end of the year on that no i don't think anyway let me put some more thought into this yeah i like i love problems like this like so there's this thing called parkinson's law right you've probably heard it before like work expands to fill the time you have like i don't know 10 years ago now i had this goal set beginning of the year i'm going to buy this is before i was like super goal oriented but i was like i want to buy 12 units this year 12 properties or 12 units right and it was like december 21st and i counted them up i was just like driving from the airport and i kind of forgot the goal again i wasn't doing any of this journal stuff every day and i was like counting them up i'm driving home from the airport and i'm like oh dang it about 11. i was like well it was a good try man 11 is pretty close right alone's pretty good but then i remember like i'm not somebody who just like gives up 90 of the way there right like i might as well try so i had 10 days 10 of the year and two of them are holidays and one's christmas eve uh and on december 30th i closed on my 12th property like i closed on it i didn't even have anything in mind at all and i had you know whatever ten days or nine days i closed later it just shows like the power of like when you have a year to get something done you'll get done in a year but if you really want to do it in two weeks three weeks you'll do it like there's always a way just where's the mental you know it's going to take some mental energy is it worth it right but that's why i love a problem like that i love constrained times like any time you can put something into a shorter timeline it you'll almost always get it done in the same amount of like effectiveness as if you would have done it in a longer time so but let me let me work on that problem in my head a little bit yeah that's that's really financially there's really not much that's really i mean you could do a uh i'm not an expert this but you could do a charity what's called a charitable remainder trust here those right like you dump money into this like trust and then you can you get the deduction the year that you put it in there but you don't have to give the money in the year that you put it in there so let's say you throw a million bucks in this trust and you now have a million dollar write-off and then you can figure out over the next few years where you want to give the money to but you get it off uh in this year um i'm actually working on an idea that's different but similar um carries your thoughts i'm going to give you guys a picture right okay this is the idea that i have i'm thinking so what we do in real estate like in my company like odc what we do is we buy these properties let's call it 50 million dollars for an apartment building we then fix it up a little bit over the time over the next few years we'll raise the rent slowly we pay off the mortgage a little bit and after and by the way we raised the money from people like you to invest all right so you give us the money you're funding the down payment we buy the property fix it up and we sell it let's call it seven years later for 80 million dollars we bought it for 50 we sell it for 80. now we've paid off the property let's call it 5 million dollars in that time so and we pay some closing costs and all that at the end of the day we clear 30 million bucks we give it back to you and the hundreds of other people that gave us money you get a nice return on your money like yeah that was cool i made some money and i get some fees and i get some profit at the end and everybody wins right but what do we actually do there like what do we actually do we out of thin air generated 30 million dollars just like now it took seven years to get there but we made like what other industry can you with that level of like assurance not that it's 100 but like that level of assurance generate 30 million dollars with relatively not that much work because like the machine i mean i already have 3000 units add another 300 on to that it's not that much extra work for my company to manage that and the key then so here's what i want to do i want to go to guys like you and say hey you put in go put in a million bucks into this fund you're going to get your million dollars back whenever we sell the property but you put the million dollars in now you get a zero percent return on your money and you get your money back at the end because we're going to take a 50 million property and turn into an 80 million property and we're going to get 30 million dollars to kids that don't have food over in some country right look at the massive good you could do in that case but here's what's cool you who just donated let's say a million dollars you your million dollars would have turned into three or four million dollars over that time there may be a way and i'm still working through the logistics of this that you can write off the three to four million dollars in the year that you give it so you give me the million dollars today and you take a three million dollar loss well isn't that what uh what they're doing with the i forget what they the stock account is called the yeah i don't know yeah i think they're already doing it with stocks where you could you you would throw your money into an investment account that's specifically meant for charity and then you're able to donate the full amount to that account so if it goes from one to five you're able to donate the five yeah i think that so similar thing just doing it with real estate uh and i'm like when i thought of this i started putting together with some other real estate investors were like oh shoot like this could like like because now all of a sudden you make money by giving donating money like right away like you offset your money off of your income now you maybe we can't do it in the year of i think we can though but even if not okay fine you get the deduction five million dollars whatever down the road who cares i think a lot of wealthy people would feel really good then every quarter instead of like a quarterly report you get quarterly life saved like hey this year we saved you know this quarter we saved 45 kids from malaria good job thanks for your support that would make everyone feel so good and then the tax benefits come in and so anyway that's one thing i'm gonna be working on this year my little sabbatical is thinking through how do i make that a thing like that and if we treat all of our like um life like that like just always thinking like what do i gotta do next like what's the most important next thing and then you do it and then you ask yourself again and again and again and it's just it's incredible how fast you can go through life but what we do i call it dead space it's the time between taking actions on any project like how long it take to read a book like if you were just pick up a new business book you'd probably read in what a couple weeks maybe but are you a really slow reader like that's like one word a minute you know like the reality is we read for an hour we wait for a day we read for 10 minutes we wait for a couple days but what if you read every hour for five minutes you get it done in a couple of couple days you read every if you read 45 minutes every hour you get done in an afternoon so the idea is like you want to minimize that dead space and the things that really matter in life is just shorten that time so instead of taking action once a month you take action every single day even if it's just a little bit a little five minute task so i'm i'm really so motivational dude it is life-changing stuff right it's just it's the difference between like so many people live their entire life like they're in the backseat of a cab like they like their life is driving and they're in the back seat just like on their phone like swiping and like not really sure where their life's going it's just like falling where it wants to go but then at some point in your life you can realize like hey like there is no cab driver like it's just like driving all over the place like automatic i can get in the front seat and i can drive and i can choose where i'm going and i can choose the direction i'm going to take to get there and this is like almost every like uber successful person i know they all live their life this exact same way they know where they're going and they they work toward it and things change all the time right like road construction pops up but you're driving so you swerve around and you figure out another way and you ask how am i gonna get past it and uh yeah i'm so passionate about this idea of like take control of your life and like yeah there's too much misery in the world you know and and people just like miserable because they're just letting life take them not you guys though you guys are crushing it you guys are crazy i'm all amped up now and i don't want to drink some more coffee five o'clock in the morning i'm gonna go to the gym i'm gonna do all these things well how many people have you know like you're like oh i'm like i want to lose weight right like i went to the gym on monday and then i didn't i didn't lose any weight so i haven't been back in a week and you're just like like it's not about going once right it's about going every day yeah so yeah you can't complain about being out of shape or overweight or anything like that because you have a choice to change it right from most people so all right i want to know now what is your opinion on the real estate market as a whole and uh any advice that you may have for me in my current position i spoke to kevin about this because i i just closed it like i told you before the podcast on my first property october 11th and now i'm like okay i kind of want to get another property the only issue is i don't want to move in to a new property like i'm so content in my current place like we strung up lights i have a ping pong room it's gravy it is so nice but i do want the lower interest rate the fha loan that one like live in one of the units it's only one of a dozen plus strategies that i i'm like not not to plug a book but i wrote a book like six years ago my first one i was on how to invest in real estate with no and low money down like it's literally like here's a bunch of different ways you can invest in real estate with no money and the fha the house hacking thing is just one of those ways and it's not even a good one because it's not zero down it's three and a half percent down like there's gonna be about 25 then just go get a 25 loan on investment property and you don't have to worry about the fine yeah totally fine you can get 20 to 25 down loans all day long uh so that's definitely if you have the money all day long just go get a rental property now get the right rental property right that's not just like go buy a property in fact i i did an interview for business insider recently did you did i tell you about that one i did this interview for business insider and it's a big site and i i was worried that it wasn't going to be a friendly interview even though it's a business thing but they started interviewing a lot of other they're trying to get a hold of me and i just kind of like blew it off for a while and i started interviewing all these other people around me and people call me like hey i just had to talk with business insider they want to know all about you and what you're doing and all that and i was like that doesn't sound good but then i figured might as well i i might as well like hear the guy out and figure out what they're talking about so they write this article about me i talked to the journalist for like an hour and a half and in there i just a conversation like this was like i just tell them what i like about real estate where the market's headed and i'll come back to your question by the way i didn't totally forget it anyway and in there i said you can't just go and buy any random property on the mls like the where all the properties are for sale and then hope to make money like that was like 2010 right you just buy anything back then it made money you got to know what you're doing you gotta like run some numbers like it's it's one in a hundred deals are actually probably good enough to make money so you just gotta get you know learn how to do it it's a learnable process and so the quote like the the the headline was something like brandon turner makes millions selling dreams but he doesn't even believe in real estate like that was what they that's that's the quote they took and they said he says if you buy a property right now you'll lose money that was that's what they took from that was because i said if you buy any random property you're going to lose money so if you buy any random property you're going to lose money unless you know what you're doing a little bit right so and they by the way the picture they took for that like they took a picture like they put my face on that article they put a gold tooth that like shot no you look it up it's ridiculous it's ridiculous what is it yeah business just happened to go to google have like business insider brandon turner makes millions uh oh my gosh isn't that great that's it brandon turner makes millions selling real estate investing dreams yeah yeah even he says you'll lose money right can you not uh because from my experience oh you spoke with what is this daniel yeah i think so from my experience with business insider they want people to come back it doesn't make any sense if you're unhappy with this that they wouldn't change it yeah well it would ask him to change i sent an email i was like that wasn't interesting because i'm here's what media does today right media like somebody writes an article article's actually pretty decent there's a little bit of criticism what not necessarily criticism of what i do but more like questioning like like why are people giving influencers money that was the kind of question they pose in there but most of it's a pretty like actual factual good article then some editor or the um some guy in charge changes the headline because they want clicks right they're like oh brandon turner's got a big name let's make it controversial and they put it out there so i emailed the guy i'm like well that was an interesting choice for a title i actually would have shared the article all over and so would bigger pockets which you know have a big reach we would have talked about it all over had you not given me a shiny tooth and and and made me look like a yeah and you have never wrote back so i'm like maybe you have a phone number to call no i just left it i'm like they deliberately like it was a it was a smear article uh and again the question like that they kind of pose is like i mean we've raised a hundred million dollars from accredited investors so all rich people like it's not like i'm taking money from grandma we raised a hundred million dollars from people in the last year and a half and use that to buy 300 million dollars with a real estate and they're saying like i mean that's unheard of like back in the day to raise money you had to go to every conference you had to wear a suit and a tie you had to like do this game and it was all like who you knew and you had to make a dozen pitches every day and do big long webinars i mean it was and i still know guys that do that like they just work so incredibly hard to raise a few million bucks and then here i am like on instagram and was like in my flip-flops and doing stupid videos of me dancing to my kitchen to punk rock and i'm like oh by the way i'm raising some money and then people are like yeah take mine right and that article is like how is that a thing like this guy just could not believe that's a thing that people do and the truth is like they do it because they know like and trust me and this is the secret to raising money is like when you can get people to know like and trust you at scale like they understand that i'm not going to take their money and run because they know that i'm a father they know where i live they know that they've heard me for 500 hours on a podcast so they're like yeah i would trust that guy with my money and they've heard me talk and they know that i can intelligently talk about the pros and cons of real estate and why i like it and what goes you know so real estate investing has changed dramatically over the past few years in that ability to raise money via social media and uh i'm kind of one of the guys at the forefront i mean of course grant cardone is so much farther ahead than i am on that i mean he's raised like a billion or two or three now i don't know he's raised a ton but uh it's fascinating this idea of taking like this kind of niche celebrity world that we're in and then using that to to raise money to then buy big real estate deals and then you take a piece it's private equity it's just that scale so anyway back to your question real estate market where's it going yeah yeah down the toilet no just kidding uh brandon turner makes millions yeah uh i think of course we have no idea right a couple of thoughts one i don't care into some level i don't really care that much because if the market goes down i will just buy more real estate it's great like it's actually going to be a good thing if real estate goes down in price i'll buy more because we buy for cash flow like we buy properties that make money today i do not expect rent to drop and even if it did it could drop 20 percent before we even break even because you know what bank won't like if you're buying a commercial loan a bank won't even give you a loan if you're not making 20 margins like that's like their number 20 or 25 so like we rents could drop 25 before we're breaking even uh and that's all i mean rents don't typically drop even an 08 they didn't drop and and with the amount of money that the government's printing right now there's not a lot of people out there thinking that we're going to see lower rents and lower real estate prices almost everybody i know says the same thing that rents will likely continue to climb uh there's been a housing shortage in america that's only getting worse and worse they're not they're not building as many houses as there are people coming into the country and wanting and wanting to live supply and demand says again that's going to drive up rents even higher so i don't worry too much about the rent so as long as i buy properties that make money today i'm okay if the market drops it doesn't matter you have a mortgage like my property could go to zero it doesn't matter i just like eventually going back up again again real estate tends to up and down there all right that said uh i i think it's gonna keep going up i think we're gonna see a lot more like turn into europe you know like in europe it wouldn't be a normal thing the kind of real estate cash flow that we have like in america is not normal in the rest of the world like you don't just go and like buy a property for 20 down and start making hundreds of dollars a month in cash flow that's not a thing in most countries um like for example hawaii is probably more similar to what a lot of europe is where the house costs a million dollars and it rents for two thousand dollars a month versus you can buy a house in ohio for a hundred thousand dollars and it runs for two thousand dollars a month like that's it's like ten times more profitable than it is in europe so i think we're just going to become more and more like europe and more like canada which has been like just crazy expensive and in which case great all our properties go up and up and up so buy properties that make sense now run the numbers learn how to run those numbers and account for things like we talked about earlier capex right things will break that pipe at your house that's just you know what's going to happen so if you're setting aside 300 bucks a month for capex that's 3 600 a year every every other year you could spend seven grand on some repair and it's like okay no problem if you have a problem and money can fix it and you have the money you don't have a problem yeah it's just business how do you feel about people villainizing landlords yeah because it does seem and we were talking about this the other day that we're moving in the direction right now where if you're a landlord you're bad yes because housing is a human right and just like you wouldn't gouge someone for food uh people need a place to live and as a landlord you're profiting on that yeah so there's seem it's we're going in that direction i don't think we i i don't think we've seen the worst of it yet yeah and i think it's unfortunately i think it's going to continue i'd assume and to uh until a point where you could no longer say you're a landlord the biggest risk that i think we have in real estate today is and this is not a political it is a political thing but it it is if somebody likes like bernie or aoc gets in charge and then do something like you know what like housing is a right so we're gonna take all rent in america and drop it in half like if that like i doubt that'll happen and i think there's a lot of smart people in that sounds ridiculous but in washington who would make sure that didn't happen and they would say no that's going to destroy the world but that is i think the biggest risk we have is that housing gets so expensive because the government's just printing some money so all of a sudden rent goes from a thousand to two thousand to three thousand and jobs aren't keeping up then the government might step in and institute rent control or start dropping rents but like they're not going to bankrupt every landlord in america because then for everything is foreclosed on and they completely tank the economy so i don't expect that i think it's a one in a thousand shot but that is the biggest risk we have is that somebody comes in i mean there was a uh oh was it you tell me this or somebody else there's a city council person like seattle who was like fighting to say like every like every landlord was going to have to give equity and ownership to every one of their tenants that was just a thing because tenants deserve to own where they live and it's like okay well are they going to pay their share of the roof when it breaks and are they going to pay their share of the pipe that broke in front yard like who's paying that money like there's a reason landlords make money now the other reason i don't worry too much from a political side is that most i don't know if most of the numbers but many many many of the senators and congress people in our world they own real estate most of the rich people in the u.s own real estate it's they're not going to screw themselves but from my yeah yeah it can be like a cop yeah people want to get elected yes i think it's moving in that direction where you can't say hey guys we want to be financially literate and let's save our money it's a lot easier to say let's cancel student loan debt yeah i agree college should be free let's tax the people making a little bit more than you uh that's not fair and uh i think those are the people more likely to get votes and over time it's slowly gonna switch i also wouldn't be surprised if at some point we we have a nationwide uh rent control at some point where it's like hey you can't raise the rent more than three percent here here are these terms or they they basically say to people you cannot own more than five properties you have a main residence a vacation home and three rentals and that's it or if you're married well now it's 10 properties that you could own between the two of you something like that and then once you reach your 10th property uh you know then it's like well now you got to sell one of them to buy something else or maybe they start progressively taxing it like after five properties then you pay a sur tax on that six property like like an extra 10 or something like that yeah i just i just think that there will always be a way to outsmart politicians like always like there's so many rules today that were like years ago we're like no i can't believe you made that rule and then like okay we're gonna start an llc and they're gonna own the property i don't know what it like this company does and you wrap it in this company and you put it in here there's all like there's you always find ways to outsmart the politicians and uh and this is maybe this is a problem with uh a democracy and capitalism but the people who have money and are well educated they can afford the lawyers and the people to get around the laws and so then they do and they make even more money and the people that don't get hurt by those rules which is why i think a huge problem in california like i don't think rent control i think rent control led to the prices going crazy in california it didn't stop it it led to it right i think anytime they try to curtail free market it tends to hurt the people at the bottom of the market i think and so if they stop nationwide rent control we would all shift how we do things a little bit we'd all keep watching youtube videos and learning and growing and we'd figure out a way around it we figured a way to make money and we'd do even better and then the people would get more screwed at the bottom like i got to tell you i'm really upset i mean this it is what it is but my place in west la um the rent control is so strict there that the maximum you could raise your rent is 54 a year that's it and the place would probably rent for all in like 10 grand a month and 54 a year so my property tax goes up higher than my rent increase on the property it's better for me to leave it empty and just so i have a place to come back to you know every few weekends spend a weekend there it's better for me to leave it empty than rent it because it's it's so difficult to get a tenant out and i just wouldn't make sense yeah yeah i can see that there's also what happens too is people shift right they're gonna shift like texas will never institute rent control right it's texas uh oklahoma is never gonna institute rent control these like these like conservative states just i can't imagine them doing it therefore like people just shift there i mean and those who want to tackle the problems of rent control there's ways to make money on that too they're gonna do that too so i i'm very much an optimist that i will always figure out a way around whatever's coming and i think when we take that perspective like it's just it's still framed just like oh yeah like they can't take away my ability to learn and to grow and to network and to figure things out and i don't know i just i worry that people have to do what's popular for the vote and if eighty percent of people are in favor for something yes even if it's wrong even if it's wrong yeah uh financially i'm not saying you know their beliefs are on but but if if that would lead to higher housing prices and they're just unaware it's really difficult to explain but if if it's popular to say hey uh we need more rent control yep then that's what's going to get voted in yep i mean what are your thoughts on inflation right now the money printing i mean you're smarter personally i don't think i don't think it's real inflation i think it's a lot of supply chain issues and bottlenecks so that's why um what was it i think it was google uh refused to give their employees a raise based on the inflation readings and i think google is smart enough to know that if inflation goes up seven percent uh you know this isn't a permanent thing that's going to last another 10 years so they're like why are we gonna increase wages seven percent when this could go down three years from now and then what we're not gonna bring down their wages so what if we see deflation then we could pay less no so i i think it's probably another two years where we're gonna see you know crazy high prices but i think probably another two years i i would say the biggest risk is if another variant comes in which is uh more contagious and and more severe in terms like it seems like the the omicron or omicron or however we pronounce it um was it it kind of blew over yeah but if something similar to that comes up or it's like oh crap well we we have to dial things back now that's probably the only thing that would risk in inflation but i think it's a supply chain yeah i think it's what do i think it's causing i mean that we sat in like lumber like you know two by four went from like five dollars to 10 to 15. right to 20 down to like seven and right now it's back at like seven or five or whatever like yeah it moved in the supply chain so i'm sure that accounted in there and they call it inflation it's not quite but yeah i mean my limited understanding of economics like just says that you can't you can't print the amount of money that they're doing without expecting some inflation in the future right and and also the amount of money that they keep giving tenants to pay their rent and if another variant does come it just comes to us anyway like the landlords for the reason why they don't like us including like now my buddy david's always telling me telling me and everyone else to stop talking about the tax benefits of real estate he's like we don't want them to know like like the more we talk about that the more angry they're going to get when they realize like what we're doing it's not illegal and it's encouraged that they like the government wants us to buy big pieces of real estate to provide housing and so they give us a really good tax deduction on that like all the accelerated appreciation all that but david's like if the masses knew what we were doing you know what no and the reason why they wouldn't care they care more about you losing money the most popular real estate investor of all time lost it's a fraud he loses money they love you yeah they love you know that gets more clicks than ah this tax loophole people care more about how we lost money yeah i lost uh i lost three million dollars last year on paper i lost three million dollars and uh therefore because i'm a real estate professional it offsets all my income and so uh it's really sad actually see that's what that's what david has you could carry that forward into future years so now if you make three million dollars the next year yeah profit now you have nothing yep it's crazy the the tax benefits of real estate like when i look at real estate i'm like here's what here's why i love it i mean there's bus business is great i love business it's great for making money too but real estate has like these kind of five things that are going for it right there's cash flow which is awesome you buy a property makes extra money every month every year hopefully you buy the right one right you get appreciation it goes up in value over time that's just how real estate tends to go three percent on average per year over the last hundred years uh and then there's the loan gets paid down so you buy the property at a hundred thousand next year only 99. that's 98 and it's 96. uh so loan paid out yo and then the uh so we're at cash flow appreciation loan pay down the tax benefits which we touched on where you get these losses that aren't actually losses just on paper they're losses and so you can deduct your other income from it and then the last piece is the leverage you can buy a million dollar property for 35 you know 35 000 if you're putting three and a half percent down so you include all five of those things and it's just like really really good and it has been let's say you want to open up you had an idea you're like i want to do a catwalking business catwalking that's the future i think it's going to work and so you go and build your catwalking business you have no idea if that's gonna work you've never met another catwalking person you don't know but you think it's a good idea and you try it and that's why ninety percent of businesses fail right but real estate like you're like i'm gonna buy a duplex you can go buy a hundred books on exactly step by step how to do it you can listen to 550 episodes of the podcast where i tell you how to buy a duplex it is so documented and formulaic that it's kind of hard to screw it up if you if you just take the education so that's why i like real estate so much is it's like anybody can do it you want to be good you don't be smart you don't have to have money there's a million strategies but it's all been so well done that you can figure it out if you want it it's there you're the first person to really get me hyped now i'm hyped on real estate again real estate's so good let me get you even more hyped right so here's here's why i love real estate even more so real i call this the stack right so the stack think of it this way you're gonna buy i said earlier if i can make a hundred dollars a month on a unit like one let's say one house i want to make 100 bucks in profit after all the bill's been paid including setting aside money for repairs and cap capex and mortgage insurance all that stuff i want to make a hundred dollars well you're like that's stupid i mean i can go make a youtube video make 100 bucks right i go and sell girl scout cookies and make a hundred dollars i'm like yeah you're right and that's a lot of work to buy 100 to buy one house you have to learn all this new stuff and these lit this lingo and all this effort to buy a hundred dollars but then you take that knowledge you just learn and you're like okay i'm gonna buy duplex now and so you buy the two unit property and now instead of making a hundred dollars you're making 200 plus the original hundred you had right now you got 300 a month again like you could sell girl scout cookies for that then the next next you go buy a fourplex and then you buy an eight unit after that then you buy 20 unit after that and now all of a sudden now you're like well i'm making you know four grand a month in money and then you buy the uh i don't know what is that 20 unit 40 unit let me buy the 80 unit now this is you must be formulaic like that but the idea is exponential growth right so up until three years ago uh i had a hundred units it took me it took me 12 years to get a hundred rental units it took me well i mean like really two years i bought my first like big one two years ago now two years and two weeks ago so it took me what's that whatever 13 years to get to 100 units it took me two more years to get the 3000 it's just this hockey stick and the interesting thing is i just bought a 72 million dollar i think we closed tomorrow 72 million apartment complex down in houston that property was less work for me it's less i would say almost less it's less risk less money from me than my very first single family house i bought 15 years ago i wanted i should have gotten in i should have gotten it out that was that's good when did you close the funding on that uh like a month ago maybe we raised it quickly yeah so that was like i was like a week or two or two probably probably probably couple weeks later it raises the money raises quick because a lot of people are in the same situation especially end of the year it's a good time to raise like next year i want to like i'm going to raise like a ton of money in december because everyone's like we gotta we gotta deploy now right uh but anyway yeah it's uh it's it's powerful stuff and so the knowledge and education that's what's important that's why earlier to circle back those early deals in in washington when i washington state i had the 30 units like they're i value them so much because they got me to work where i could then get to the next level they they matter so much but they also don't matter at all like financially speaking like i make a few thousand dollars a month off it it's nothing compared to what i make off everything else but i couldn't have gotten to the other part the business of real estate if i hadn't gone through that this is where i differ with grant cardone grant cardone is like start with a 50 unit start there that's what you should buy and i'm like ah like when i bought my first 50 unit i made so many mistakes and i've been doing it for 10 years or 15 years so i think you've got to go through the journey of buying these smaller deals and you've done it now right so you're like you've done the the property thing now you could probably take down a 20 unit in your head you're like well you know it's not really worth my time to buy a 20 unit you're right it's financially it's not worth it but by buying the 20 unit it makes you better to buy the 100 unit and then buying 100 unit makes you better to buy the 500 unit and that's where things get fun where you're taking a 50 70 million dollar property you're gonna turn into 120 million dollars and at that level you've got a whole team that runs everything for you and you're just using your your platform to raise money you just do commercial real estate was probably like what it is but would you do that and buy like a jiffy lube or something like that yeah i would so i like they call those triple networks right and and and i can't remember what it stands for but uh it basically means yeah there's there's they're great in that what is it net taxes yeah yeah tax insurance and repairs right yeah so basically you don't have to do anything man this is you know about this stuff it's super cool right you buy a jiffy lube and your only expense is your mortgage payment yep right because they take care of everything uh it's it's a good idea but here's what's wrong with that or that what's scary jiffy lube leaves they go to business right like um forever people are like walgreens and cvs they are the thing to buy because they are never leaving and then like cbs announced a couple days ago right it was like they're closing 900 stores like they're like walgreens and cvs will be out of business in five years or at least like heavily diminished why because amazon right so the problem with triple net lease in my mind is a lot of them are single asset meaning they're one tenant in one location and if they leave you're gonna have a year two years three years if just an empty property and it's gonna cost you half a million dollars just to renovate it for the next guy and then they might stay for five years so i'm not saying you can't do that it's a good model it's just there's risk there and so there's also what i like to do is value ad real estate so we will buy it at the apartment for 70 million dollars and we'll put 5 million into a paint and and remodel in the units and make it really nice and immediately now it's worth 90. like just by doing that remodel and raising the rent now it's worth way more right away the jiffy lube you buy it for 5 million tomorrow it's worth 5 million dollars and you know 5.1 million sure and it goes up slowly so versus this and so i like to the stair-step method it's like you boom jump up equity and then you go for a while which is fun so again different strokes different folks like i can i can find a millionaire real estate investor in every single solitary niche of real estate you'd be like i think it'd be really cool to own like sober living houses and you're like okay i can find you a millionaire i know a millionaire who's a millionaire doing sober living houses i really want to do like commercial real estate like strip malls great you can do it all it all works every bit of it works if you're willing to put in the time to become great at it and most people aren't so that's why they don't those sober living facilities by the way i represented a client who would uh he didn't own the buildings but he would rent them out and then create a sober living facility in what is that so uh so they would look for so let's say he would find like an eight-bedroom house that was 10 grand a month he would run a facility where people would pay five thousand dollars a month or four thousand dollars a month to live in this house and they do that i think they do like meals they do counseling they uh they they oversee these people and so if eight people are living in there each paying five grand a month that's forty thousand dollars a month his cost is let's say ten thousand dollars a month for the house plus another ten thousand dollars a month for for services so they're walking away with twenty thousand dollars a month in profit per house that they get yeah there's it's it's all could be a lot of money yeah there's there's all these cool little niches in real estate too which are fun like for example um one thing i'm going to be pursuing a little bit in the future on maui i've got this rental house there with four bedrooms and um it was a triplex when i bought it and then the government stepped in in maui and they were like we don't want you to have a tr it's not legally a triplex take it back to a single family house and i'm like dealing with them trying to navigate that and sure enough i'm gonna have to take it back to a single family house it just sucks that's one of the things you go with right so i'm like all right well the big thing right now is traveling nurses especially because of covert but just in general that's always been a thing traveling nurses and they need a place to stay for six months typically so what i'm going to do is i'm going to turn each bedroom and they're huge bedrooms in this place each bedroom into a uh like furnished rental for traveling nurses and it's i can probably get two thousand dollars out of each bedroom for that's two four six eight thousand dollars a month out of this property i mean i gotta pay 500 in water and sewer and garbage and electricity but that property is going to just like print money my mortgage is 2 000 a month and i'm going to have maybe you know let's call it two more thousand dollars of all expenses including capex and management and all that i'll still make four grand a month and just profit off that like that's a cool little niche it's like you could do that you can do an old folks home i don't think they call them that's probably the wrong terminology senior senior living yeah yeah you can assisted living now you can do that there are others they make money too so i represented a client who did sober living facilities and senior care facilities gosh this guy like a ton of money doing this the senior care especially yeah there's like 30 sometimes a year yeah it's crazy it's really good uh one one other like yeah i mean there's a million there's vacation rentals right like you could be in an area there's a vacation rental you've heard of uh airbnb arbitrage that concept it's like rent to property yeah you rent a property then you rent on airbnb i know some people killing it on that uh it's just what uh what i would say is like follow the fire like something like when when you listen to a real estate podcast or really any podcast right there something like fires you up when i when i hear about bitcoin and people start talking about bitcoin like i'm just like dead like nothing i just don't care like i just it for whatever reason i don't care uh i'm sure it's a good idea i mean i bought like 10 grand just to have it as a lottery ticket is it maybe go up and maybe it won't uh but like i just don't care about it i don't care about crypto really at all i don't care about nfts but you talked to me about duplexes ever since i was 21 i'm like oh let's talk about duplexes i love them like there's and then i got into mobile home parks why i don't know like some piece of my brain is miswired and it's like mobile home parks are cool so i always say like follow that fire like i don't care what it is but like everybody gets fired up about something could be sober living houses i got a friend who uh was a severe drug addict uh her husband both were severe drug addicts and alcoholics and just struggled that for a long time and then they like changed their life like came to jesus like turned everything around and now they do sober living houses and like it's such a cool thing that it fires them up because it like they went through it and they saw the yeah follow the fire like whatever you're like i mean youtube obviously fires you up so you lean into it and you're what do you know you're successful with it because you followed the fire yeah that's cool now i'm curious what's your experience been with mobile home parks uh let me tell you a story about a bank robber and a prostitute okay all right uh let's start with a bank robber walks into a bar yes we'll start with a prostitute who's actually not a prostitute so we got a call uh we had a call to our property manager my very first mobile home park i ever bought i get a call uh well the property manager gets a call from this gentleman they left the message of the middle knight and the guy says i wish i had the recording that played it's so funny i was like hey my name's uh well i'm not gonna tell you my name for obvious reasons and uh i was over at uh you know whatever park you know unit number 12 and went in there and uh met the lady on through craigslist and i went in there and i paid the lady or money and i took off my clothes and i laid in the bed then her boyfriend comes in and rob me i'm not going to the cops with this so i just wanted you to know and so no prostitute who actually was a thief which is a cool because that's actually the perfect crime right what's this guy going to do like yeah so for uh those who want to make some good money let me tell you a great strategy yeah isn't that crazy yeah it's like robbing a uh a thief but in that way without someone in your trailer in my trailer park now we buy nicer trailer parks we try to than that but like so that's first story the second one a little more boring the guy robbed a bank and then fled and fbi was after him and we had to repossess both anyway the first lady she left after like a month after that uh you know it was just hearsay we actually didn't know she was a thief it's just some random guy calls right i'm sure she was but i'm not gonna evict the lady because somebody said that obviously we watched closer the bank robber we had to repossess his house after a while so mobile home parks are fun they they're good for stories but really they're good for cash flow they make they make good money and here's why i like them so much if you buy a rental house sorry let's go apartment you buy an apartment complex and the plumbing breaks the toilet breaks because the tenant flushed a contact lens bottle down the toilet true story then i go over and i have to pay somebody to go and fix that but in my in my mobile home parks if a tenant drops a contact bottle down the sink they have to pay that it's their home like i don't own the home they own their own home so i don't have to deal with the ups and downs of dealing with repairs and contractors and all that drama now there is an aspect of that because we bring in a lot of homes but that's what my favorite thing is like it it's fairly stabilized cash flow like it's like triple not least in a way because i don't have to deal with the repairs maintenance or any of that just like they pay rent they even pay their own water bill and so my expenses and the headache is pretty low plus because they own their own home on my land they don't typically leave they'll stay for years and years and years because they can't just move their house it's expensive and i you know there's some investors who have like gloated over it over the years like like you know yeah that we trapped them in our park and like i don't i don't want to think that way like i don't but it's kind of true right like in a way they they are low-income they can't just pay 10 000 to move their home to another park and so they kind of are stuck there uh now some people say that's then you shouldn't do mobile home parks it's immoral to do that i'm like well i mean there's people at that level so they can be they can have crappy landlords that take advantage of them and treat them terribly or i can help them it's like there's going to be low-income people everywhere so i just happen to serve them and i serve them well and i try to treat them we don't jack their rent up in fact the other thing i love about mobile home parks is that we buy them partially empty i like that so if you go buy an apartment complex it's a 100 unit apartment complex and for some reason they've had a hard time getting tenants lately they're only eighty percent full let's just say you still pay a hundred percent for that property you still pay as if it was a hundred percent full that's just how commercial apartments are with the mobile home park if it's only eighty percent full i pay 80 because there's no homes there and then we are really good at finding homes moving them and then setting them up and then selling them to tenants and so every time you bring in a new home i can take a property from 70 or 60 full up to 100 full and then at the same time i can shift the water bill over to their responsibility i can manage it better get better and get more people paying rent on time because i'm actually a good property manager and all of a sudden i've doubled the value of that park in a short time in fact our very first fund with my company we bought a three mobile home parks total price was six million dollars 6.1 we just sold it for 13. like in two years we went from 6 million to 13. our investors got a stupid good return on that one and we won't get that i'm sure every deal in the hill in the future but that's what's fun about mobile home parks plus the stories the bank robbers and the prospects what's the return that you usually get on a mobile home park uh 30 20. i mean so the deal that first one uh we ended up uh we our investors who got who they get roughly 70 give or take of of the deal we as a company that owns it we take about 30. so they got like a 35 return on their money like per year like irr they got like a 35 which is phenomenal i mean we don't usually we project like 15 to if we can get 20 that's a home run um but 15 is is good we kind of under we we say we underwrite to 15 so if we if we we can determine how much to pay for a property by working backwards and saying okay well if our investors need 15 percent uh you know irr then working backwards we can pay 6.1 million and that's that's what we offer there's no emotion there it's just like this is the numbers if we can make it work great if not move on to the next one so it makes me want to invest what's the qualifications of an accredited investor isn't it just 250 000 it's like 200 yeah it's 200 if you're single 300 if you're married or you have a million dollar net worth or you have like a series seven that's the crazy thing nobody checks it's like as far as i'm aware for a credited investor all you have to do is self-certified it's like i'm an accredited investor yeah yes so yes no that's yes and no so there's a little distinction here you're right with this is probably getting into the weeds that maybe people won't care about but there's two mainly two types of syndications there's what's called a 506 b and a 506 c so a 506 and this is important for you to know down the road for i'll tell you what for obvious reasons in a second a 506 b means it's your friends and it's friends family people you maybe know have a connection with you go to conferences you meet people who shake the hands all that we talked about earlier almost everybody does that and has for the last whatever x amount of years because to do that you can a credit investors just have to say they're accredited and b you can take money from up to 35 non-accredited so from like your buddy who makes 180 000 a year he can give you 50 grand not a big deal the other option is to 506c that's what i do that one says you have to prove that they're credited that's you should go through a process to approve it there's actually companies out there that will do that for you costs a few hundred bucks we pay it and they have to prove it let's say bank statements all that right um and we can only take money from accredited investors so like why would we do that like that sounds like the other option's way better right it's because with the other option the one that i don't do you can't advertise you can't talk about your podcast you can't put it on a facebook ad you can't put it anywhere publicly like it's it's very like you know in person it's a family friend so if you are an influencer of any kind imagine you had a real estate thing and you could not talk about your real estate it would suck so the people who have an audience like me that's why i've been able to raise so much money is because i do 506 c it just sucks because there's i mean there's how many people watching this right now that would be like oh yeah that sounds cool to invest oh i don't make 200 000 a year and so they can't i wish i could yeah so grant cardone has a model there's a third one out there that you can get the best of both worlds it's just super expensive and complicated and leads a lot of headaches like he got sued you know he got sued by like somebody who put in like 10 grand like i don't know the whole story but like the guy who puts in 10 grand is the guy who sues you because he's like grant said i was gonna make 15 of my money and we only made two percent or whatever you're like he said 15 irr that means like spread out over the course of the investment at the end you get most of it then it's always the guys that put in 10 grand that caused you the problems i've got a few people who put in millions yeah you never hear from them like you never because they just yeah they trust you like so anyway crazy i've always noticed that in real estate too generally the people spending the most wouldn't care just like just give me a house at this the easiest deals just what do you want me to say all right done yep that's it and and meanwhile the people uh in the lower price points comb through everything like you know what my my father said that this was a bad term we should cross that out it's like it's a standard scenario it's like but no we don't agree with that once it's always those yeah it's actually one of the great things when we raise money we raise a lot of money we we like we will like tag people as like they're going to be difficult to work with like they're the ones that like they want to go through every single line and every single thing and like they'll like look at our documents and be like you only have a hundred and thirty four thousand here for paint uh this seems a little bit too low i think you're probably gonna be more like 140 or like or whatever i'm like listen man like we've been doing this for a while we've got contractor bids like you're like an armchair quarterback maybe this isn't the right investment for you like we will like just not take people's money um and like people will ask me sometimes like hey uh should i put money with this guy uh his his his investment that was gonna sound really bad but i'm gonna say it anyway when i invest in other people's syndications i almost never look at their like ppm or their information i don't care because like i i trust them as a person they're people that i know i like them i trust them and so like how am i going to go through their not documenting they put 100 hours of work into analyzing this deal am i going to go in there and be like i don't like how you put only uh 55 there a month for rent raise i think you only get 50 like i don't know like do you trust the person do you think they have a good chance of making your money grow and if so i'm going to make the bet on them and the best i can do is i make a lot of bets and i think most of them will pan out because i trust the people i think that they're trustworthy people and it's best you can do so it's like that was companies right like you invest in a stock because you like the company like i think they then they got legs jack did you sell robin hood yet no it was down again jack so just so this is what happens i invest a big chunk of money into robin hood and then jack over here is like dude why and he buys it in the stock tanks oh it's every single time and it keeps dropping and i keep telling you joe just go sell it he's like no it's gonna go up is but the longer you wait to sell the lower the price goes please and this is why i love real estate that strategy works you love your real estate that works really good in real estate like if it drops you're like oh let's hang on till it comes back you can't do that in stock you can do it in real time i was where i was going to crash the las vegas market as soon as he is it foreclosures like yeah yeah you're the guy in like school where you like walk by the computer lab i don't know if they had computer labs when you're in school we walk by and like all the computers just like shut down you're like just the bad luck guy jackie absolutely not no i'm riding this out ride it out man this is one of his heaviest positions too it's just so unfortunate that i happen to buy into it what jack what if i give you 500 bucks right now dude i can't what if what if you arm wrestles for right now no jack's gonna win yeah we aren't messed with last podcast really by the way my arm was hurting the next day oh mine wasn't i won but yeah so jack five hundred dollars i'll say seriously because i want i have so much money invested in this that for me 500 bucks it's worth it just to get checked out dude and when do i buy back in 30 days three days i'll heavily consider it tomorrow i'll talk about it it's market closed anyways and tomorrow's saturday so it's not like we have you could rock paper scissors it all right how about this rock paper scissors if you win you pay me 500 and i'll sell and i'll buy back in 30 calendar days from the day i sell if i win we'll leave it okay about this 250 250 375. 300 350. 300 i'll buy dinner tonight i'm not hungry 300 300 all right 300 and a dinner credit super sushi you already owe me one super sushi so we're back at two okay so now we have to rock paper scissors rock paper scissors rock paper scissors okay so you got the first one you write one okay okay rock paper scissors oh see well no no see and i told you monday green candling okay 300 bucks man green candles you just are you're having bad luck with this stock not only are you down 80 grand now you lost 300 more greens i know you didn't lose money you're right you're right you're right how much can i pay you for your stock picks man okay you're lucky so i could short them just open up a short position as soon as you buy it fake me out and then short the stock immediately afterwards crap sorry man wow all right it's it's gonna go good that's so exciting it's a good moment what uh we should probably wrap up here if you have any questions for us uh i wanna know when you're gonna buy your next piece of real estate open the fund up i i want to invest in your funds seriously okay that's what i'm waiting the truth is most people okay so let me tell you a quick story yeah it was a good good ending here for you guys when i once bought a property at auction for fifteen thousand dollars fifty one five right super cheap i researched it uh it came out for auction nobody else showed up the bid and they're like opening a bit like they're we're standing in like the lobby of the courthouse and like opening bed is fifteen thousand one hundred and twelve and i was like fifteen thousand one hundred thirteen i get it right i then go remodel the property i spent like i don't know 25 grand something like that it took like nine months to fix it up super annoying uh finally get it fixed up and done i put on airbnb for a while it was kind of cool super stressful like people couldn't get the front door open because they didn't know how to use a keypad and like that's the annoyance with airbnb got tired of that put a regular tenant in it that was annoying for a little while up and up and down finally sold the property after like four years of owning it and i and i look at my numbers i averaged it all out put a spreadsheet and i made a 15 return on my money and i'm like that was when i realized it was like that moment i was like i could have just given my money to somebody else and gotten the same return right now that it's guaranteed but neither is that right and so there is a level people who are higher income earners should probably not be going out there trying to buy the duplex trying to buy the four plex unless they want to do what i said earlier and that's scale up their own real estate business but if it's like i'm gonna go and figure out a duplex because i think that'll be a good investment it's just you might as well just like find people you know like and trust put your money with them and it's just way better so you don't have to buy another piece of real estate but i'd love to take your money someday all right you got my money all right all right thankfully jack cannot invest because he's not accredited well then you get insurance on that but there's going to be something that's going to go wrong so please that that's the one agreement i will give you money but you cannot we'll make a special fun just for you and we'll go buy a duplex for you it'll be great yeah we're going to get you a duplex that's great awesome no more real estate jack all right thank you so much for coming on really nice meeting you yeah you too it's been fun yeah thank you uh guys thank you so much for watching you got to do us a quick favor though and subscribe because uh it's it's half of you watching are not subscribed which is not okay it's totally free to do that's just rude actually yeah i i don't know why it's so easy just hit the little button totally free we post once a week so uh actually we we might even do a bonus episode if you subscribe so that's all you got to do and get your free stock down below in the description that's it it's worth all the way up to a thousand dollars so thank you guys so much for watching and until next time thank you that was awesome that was cool perfect i love that all right good job guys oh jack you can't do anything right are you still recording this yes [Laughter] that is good good job please keep that in there