Meet The Most Popular Person In New York City | Kelly Wakasa

Kelly wakasa is a perfect example of if at first you don't succeed try again after repeatedly hitting rock bottom Kelly moved to New York City and was able to build an audience of millions who watch him push boundaries do the uncomfortable and make a lot of money in the process today we're getting an inside look into the business one of the most popular vloggers in New York City discussed the difficulties that come along the way I was making like a thousand to two thousand a month and then I actually tanked then I just couldn't make any money and to answer all of the questions that you've been dying to hear on this episode of subscribe if you haven't done that already because we're closing in on 400 000 subscribers so thank you so much and now let's begin but first we want to thank our sponsor Creative Juice as a Creator you're running a business and as a business you got to have a business banking account that's separate from all of your personal stuff well fortunately Graham Creative 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from industry experts you could use these funds to purchase Studio space hire freelance help or do anything else that you believe will help expand the business so sign up for a free Creative Juice business banking account today by using the link Down Below in the description or by going to getjuice.com getfunding so get started now and take control of your creator business once again guys it's completely free the link Down Below in the description thank you so much and on to the podcast look into this camera say welcome back to the iced poppy hour welcome back to the ice poppy hour with me is that what you wanted or beautiful thank you so much for making it on the ice poppy hour Kelly we're excited to be here this is a wicked house we have to describe where we are I feel like we're three levels underground in a bedroom yep it's a basement turn bedroom and this is uh my roommate Luke's house or whereabouts his situation yeah this is a very nice place like a lot of places in New York are very small but this is like an actual large like condo what do you call it I mean it's like a pretty much a townhouse I would say I mean we have a backyard so I feel like that has to be like house house yeah lovely place you hosted a boxing event two nights ago that was crazy it's all just like a YouTube boxing event with a bunch of people punching each other in the face you included yeah I mean I just built a boxing ring and thought it'd be funny to have like a fight night in a party and I'm glad you guys that was like last minute too I was yeah shocked that we were like okay we're gonna do this podcast today we're like actually I got this bomb boxing match I want to do in my living room I had decided Friday night so like the day before I built it and just because of like scheduling I was like okay if I'm gonna make this video happen I have to make it now because I'm leaving on Thursday yeah and I want to be like a weekend party otherwise like no one shows up so and you built it yourself did you or did you yeah yeah you did all of the things like because it's actually like a somewhat legitimate boxing I mean it's like it's not like because it's like pool noodles and stuff like that yeah I love to throw a b-roll yeah yeah we'll throw up some footage maybe we wait until you post a video and we'll you look like you're itching in the corner just to get in there part of me wanted to because like there was there was 20 to me that thought man I could kick some ass in this thing oh yeah yeah okay okay like I saw that the you know people putting their hands down they didn't have good form and posture yeah Alex you want a box where you at I posted on Instagram I said like who would you guys like to see in the iced coffee hour and I made like this makeshift spreadsheet of how many times each name was mentioned oh really yours was mentioned I believe it was third uh the first was Casey neistat so it was Ryan Serhant okay and then it was you you know okay you know I mean you're very probably well aware of Casey neistat is we saw Candace earlier today that's sweet crazy we saw his wife at Sweet greens earlier just coincidentally oh really she was just there and it was like Hey Candace and she just weirded out you said hi I wouldn't have said hi I didn't know what to say she was walking right by us and I was like wait a second I noticed anything why would you call it like I just went hey Candace that doesn't sound terrible but I didn't say anything I didn't say like hey I'm a fan like because we're also planning on shooting with Casey he was DM and Casey yeah we were talking about setting something up when we're here oh nice but we were pushing it until a little later and then Jax is hiking and she looked over like who is this guy I was like right next time I was talking to Casey about maybe he's like oh okay but I'm sure she's like oh he's one of these guys like you know one of them that's tens of thousands of people talking to him on like a weekly basis yeah I've met Casey I don't know if Casey has met me like literally I'm like hey what's up like I saw him on the street once and I offered to help because he had like garbage bags and I think he was shooting a thumbnail at the time um but I didn't like introduce myself I was like oh what's up I'm just you need help and then he just like looked at me like like this and then we had a um a lunch at YouTube that we were all invited just like 10 creators was like Dr Mike uh Casey Dylan Lemay and myself and Ashley and then I went up and said Hi and then he just kind of went around so yeah moment he's like the YouTubers YouTuber like all the YouTubers just like a door I feel like everyone does so respected everyone in New York too is like he's uh yeah he's Casey yeah I mean he just he walks on water even at the YouTube office like there's other people in the room that are definitely like notable status and then he's just like above and beyond yeah interesting well we're here to talk about you oh yeah okay by the way I realized that I saw your video a while ago asking oh it was you you asked out your crush um like was it Elementary School okay that's how I initially found you oh what's that the Middle School Crush video I'll your editing was so good like I watched your video and it made me feel like crap because I want my video afterwards I'm like my videos suck compared to like the work that you put in the storytelling yeah yeah and they're like I mean that video specifically was uh I mean a long time in the making it was actually we I had shot a video I had a Duo Channel with my friend Luke where we like dm'd our Middle School crushes and so we had all this footage and then I was like we never met up so I was like oh my God this would be amazing Let's uh finally do this and I still kind of had those butterflies when I made that video so it's all very genuine and uh I think the results like kind of showed for itself that it was a good story well tell us a little bit about like your story growing up and and what led you to here today yeah well I'm from San Francisco Bay Area uh specifically like Burlingame area I don't know if you guys are familiar but yeah grow up grew up playing soccer and then getting into YouTube I found a passion for skateboarding so actually my first initial 100 000 subscribers are all from skateboarding content and I worked with the biggest YouTube skate Channel Braille skateboarding I don't know if you guys know him Aaron Cairo Braille skateboarding um they have like five million subscribers I think the ones that they try different decks yeah yes crazy day I loved yeah I like the glass and stuff like that I loved that yeah doing a kickflip with that so I I was um I was an intern for them for many years just like unpaid just like help do camera work and was just kind of like a sponge learning how long were you at the time like 15 16. how'd you get the position as their intern sent just like a bunch of emails that I was honestly surprised they got back to me you send emails that's exactly what happened wow just lots of emails that's cool though that's cool yeah and then since then just kind of like evolved content-wise over the years and now I guess I make Adventure Vlogs did you know that you had an interest in YouTube specifically or was it more so skateboarding I think over the course of my life uh video making has always been like at the Forefront sometimes in the back just because at one point I was like Head Over Heels about skateboarding it was like my girlfriend now just like all day skate and um but my filmmaking beginning started when I was like I want to say eight or nine and I had like made a lot of videos using my mom's Mac desktop computer so I have like videos on other channels that were from 2009 when I was nine and like just a decade of videos now that's incredible what did you um who did you look up to as a kid did you have any like uh skate influences or anything I know for me it was uh what was the guy's name he was in the first Tony Hawk named Jamie something oh well I was thinking j-o-b no I don't think it's JV I I feel like I know who you're talking about but I don't want to slaughter the last name okay those are definitely some OG's I wouldn't say like my era but I would say like growing up I looked up to another YouTuber named Chris Chan yep you know him he's a lifestyle vlogger and skateboarder like I would say pretty much Pro to a non-skater's eye I guess or to a skater's eye as well I don't want a big disrespect him like that I didn't realize that but um yeah I used to look up to this guy specifically he has like a million subscribers and I remember just like wow his videos are so cool and now like we're friends which is crazy still like we'll get food together and like I still have to like pinch myself and it's like we're on the same level now but it doesn't you know I always kind of look at him or be like so cool so what point did you decide to Pivot to your own content like start your own channel and go that route when I was like 15. that's early yeah yeah I was making YouTube money in I mean not like YouTube I want to hear how much do they make back then well it it's hard to tell but by the end of high school I was making like a thousand to two thousand a month that's it incredible yeah in in high school with like um I want to say like a hundred thousand subscribers I feel like that's a little low for a hundred thousand subscribers but as a high schooler like as like a job that's right it depends on the content I would say right right yeah yeah I mean at the time I was hyped like no I would do it for free so I mean it was definitely like even then I was already posting like all the time like multiple times a week like I would say three times a week a new Vlog kind of I would say like more David dobrik's style I was kind of like grabbing from a lot of people yeah but yeah I would say like early Beginnings just like a couple thousand and then I actually tanked after doing like one to two thousand then I just couldn't make any money so what happened um I switched up my content again and you know when you build an audience for something it's like you guys are doing a podcast right now then all of a sudden said like okay we're gonna do vlogs like it might it might not do well and that's what happened to me because I did skateboarding so much as that was my Niche and then I was like no I cut the skateboarding because I just felt like it was such a small Niche that I couldn't grow to the size that I wanted to and I wanted to not feel like trapped in a box and then from there I went from averaging I wouldn't say like 40 to 50K views to like 10K views or less and then I was just like yeah that was uh not making any money and then how old were you at that time I want to say like 18 19. right as I moved out that that's when the views dropped got it and you were going to college right no I moved um After High School after graduating high school I moved to Los Angeles how are you able to afford La I had saved up up until I was moving and I want to say I saved up a good good chunk like twenty thousand dollars how did you not spend it I feel like it's so tempting for people in high school you have like two thousand dollars a month rolling in how do you control yourself to save I don't even think I thought about spending it I kind of think I liked seeing the money grow okay I was like oh this is this is awesome and I want to say like I was very fortunate growing up like I didn't feel like um like my family didn't like struggle to you know have food or like you know certain nice things so um I didn't feel like I needed to to spend and I had everything I needed I had a skateboard at a car and I was good I was just borrowing my mom's car and just like go around and film and skate yeah how'd you pick La it's funny the room we're in right now this is my friend Luke's room I met Luke when we were in freshman year of high school we uh sat next to each other and we're like oh you skate I skate I do YouTube you do YouTube a little bit we should move to LA and blow up and this was kind of like I want to save during like the Jake Paul the those type of era vloggers and so we're like we gotta go to La and so it kind of like manifests Itself by the end of high school we're like okay let's move out let's move to LA and then we shared a studio apartment in East Hollywood right in front of like the blue Scientology building yeah and uh yeah that's that's what we said what was the plan like no plan no plan absolutely no plan what'd your parents think of that I think at by that time my parents were like Kelly's a wild child like he's just gonna do whatever he wants and uh they knew that I was driven and so I think they just like said oh he'll figure it out but yeah I mean I just like losing money just doing whatever I wanted you moved to LA you get in place with your friend you were making at the time like like you said one to two thousand dollars a month yeah right yeah I had never I never did a brand deal like ever until like maybe two years ago from today so I wasn't making any brand money it was only AdSense and but luckily our rent was only 650 each that's not bad at all yeah I mean it was it was a studio it's really small and yeah we just rode with that cash and I had something saved up I actually really messed up my boy Luke because I was like Luke you gotta move out you got to come down to LA and he's like I have no money saved up and he was also a way smaller YouTuber um so we kind of like supported each other during that time so humble Beacon and what sort of content were you creating was this must have been like 2016. no this was 2019 2018 2019. I moved out I was making literally the most random content and that's why it didn't stick looking back and like this is the most stupid Direction a YouTuber can make um I went from like making some high school Vlog skating to uh just like clickbait titles and Vlogs and I still had like good editing like what it would just be like I can't believe it like that would be the title I can't believe it just hoping you know it's just full lifestyle and in La it'd be like you know of course would be like a moving to LA video and then sometimes I'd go back to my old niche of skateboard because like I was like oh this is all I know and so then I would do a like a I used to do videos like asking people about skate trivia on the street which would do well but it was just jumping around with so much different content you would you could watch one video in the next video I post look like it's out of your guys's video or something like it could have been it could have been like a finance Niche like I was just literally trying it at the fan even though I had like at the time like I want to say like 200 000 subscribers 200 000 subscribers yeah that's a lot of subscribers I think I knew how to make a video or I knew how to make a video but I didn't know how to like cultivate cultivate an audience it's great yeah so when did you get your like viral video what what changed was no viral video it was definitely just a slow grind like I still feel now that I'm just like still so beginning um but like what was the pivot what changed that like put you on the path to make the content easy today actually I had a manager in La who basically like kind of roasted my content we had worked really hard me and my friend Luke on this video together and we were just like worked for two weeks on this video and he's just like yeah it's not good and so it was kind of like a wake-up call he was just telling me like you should like do some storytelling or something I was like storytelling what do you want me to narrate I was like that's that's suicidal like I can't it was just not part of my style at the time and then I just started you know writing down like okay what how can I package a good video and I was so obsessed with you know just YouTube in general that I was like looking at everybody who's really winning in the space like Casey or Emma Chamberlain or David dobrik at the time and I was just like let me just grab a little bit from each like I mean I hope that was like Emma Chamberlain relatability and Casey and I sent storytelling and David dobrik funny and I tried to like pile it in and and then you know maybe like yes Theory narration and so it kind of started molding my style and from there I started doing more videos that were story based and I think that's kind of like still the content that has made me the bigger Creator I am today yeah I think that's still the style now it seems that the story style like that your sort of narration I believe has really carried forward a lot like even now those videos are like just as relevant I think storytelling is just something that will never go yeah like good good videos good stories they're Timeless so how do you how do you start with telling a story like is there a structure that you follow every time or how do you know like how to tell it I guess is like how do you figure this out it's practice it's got to be practice like this is all I do every day since I was like sure but walk us through like just let's say you come up with a story what's the the storyboarding I suppose process of like getting it all out on like a script or a paper nowadays it's very different than when it like back in the day nowadays I think I'm just smarter with YouTube that I have to start with thumbnail title like the idea of like what do I want to look like and then work backwards from there because I just don't even feel like wanting to make the video if I know it's just gonna flop there's so many cool ideas out there that just don't work in a thumbnail title that I just would not make like give us an example let's let's hear it maybe we help you on this I mean even not not nice out loud like that could be cool um we would like I would do a lot of videos that were just like maybe kind of like a stunt or something but it didn't like you couldn't capture the moment in a thumbnail that was like digestible if that makes sense um like we would do videos like in the LA River like wakeboarding the LA River I thought this was a great idea or somehow taking that and elevating that idea but we can never get it that like it would go viral and so I feel like there are certain videos that are very cool as segments that lead to a bigger idea that uh that is why like I just stray away from those ideas if that makes sense but when you're telling a story how do you script it how do you figure out like this is a good hook this is what people care about and remove the fluff I think I like to film and everything happens in post I'll have a brief like okay let's shoot at certain places and then just let the like magic of being out and about filming happen so you know the best moments happen when they're like unscripted obviously if I scripted everything like the videos would suck um so I I think I just use like notion and I just literally like write down like okay this is you know a checklist of like things I want to shoot that day and the next day if I don't get it then I'll just go out and shoot something else that comes to mind and a lot of times I'll have these ideas that'll sit in my notion or whatever for for months I think my videos are heavily like you need an edit like yeah I'm not jidion or Danny Duncan who's like just you know naturally super funny and like that type of content I I would say I'm closer to like I don't know a Casey neistat or yes Theory or something that has more post-production work not to like say that no no no no no no no so I've I've hung out with Danny a few times yeah he is the exact same off camera exactly like he will do the same things yeah off camera and I'm like dude you're not even filming this it's just he just finds it funny yeah like all the time of course so it's just like just filming his life it's wild I thought honestly he played up for camera but no that's so funny yeah not at all do you know who fedias is yes he's the exact same on camera as he has off camera he's like a he's honestly a public nuisance when I go out it's like it's like in a lovely like yeah yeah like he will like we'll just be in a restaurant he'll just like start like yelling not yelling but like basically just like being a distraction everybody and he just doesn't care like yo you realize that we're not filming right now he's like yeah no he hog deal on mosque you see that I did see that I've made be so happy to see him how many days was he out there it was like two months was it almost three wow a month like work in between that or is that that's it just uh he was like doing daily shorts that was a nice thing yeah blew up on YouTube and Tick Tock by doing the daily shorts Elon musk's office and I'll tell you like I honestly felt around day 45 uh he wasn't gonna do it because he upset Elon musk's mom someone said he should reach out to Elon musk's mom and like he mentioned something to his followers and everyone went to her and like started spamming her of like how do they have your son hog phidius you know and such a YouTuber thing like I want to hug Elon Musk for my video so people spam them up but she was so upset over that that she did like a public tweet and yeah told like Elon do not hug him whoa and I was like oh yeah then that's not gonna happen especially with security issues I thought it might set the precedent that like Elon is now gonna hug anybody who like camps out for 100 days or something like that might set like the wrong tone or he might say like hey I'll do it but like you can't post about it we'll do it like something like that I was worried about it but the fact that he stayed just as dedicated like his inspirational to me that like seriously you would love to see Graham stuff and like outside of Casey United States just give me a hug I don't know someone like Elon Musk is like that is like the top tier I was shocked that it is dedicated he did it though like made me so happy yeah I mean that's got to be one of the hardest people to reach yeah so I just did it resilience right there so when for you did things on YouTube really start taking off to the point where like okay now you're affording a nicer place you moved to New York right yeah I would say 2020. 2020 was an hour is kind of like the change I I would say like when I felt like I was making it was when I was averaging 100 000 views I was like oh my God this is all I ever wanted 100 000 views and that happened in the summer of 2020 and that was just through like the new style of content I was making and then from there I actually enrolled in college after being out of college for two years because I saw the opportunity to go to college to make videos going to college to make videos yes so being a college YouTuber yeah at the time I noticed like all these college videos do so well and they're no offense like kind of like I was like What if I go to college and I just make videos but I don't even focus on school like I'll make great videos what college videos are doing well even just a basic Day in the Life anything yes the day in the life of a UCLA student kept getting recommended the Harvard The Ivy Leagues yeah the day in the life of uh car you know what was the one there's John was it John fish yeah John fish yeah yeah I mean just at the time yes I think I mean I think even today like college content is still very like you know that's the everyone who's on YouTube is like kind of younger and wanting to go to college or like wants to see especially like even UCSB like I think they have like uh 30s no they have they have a ton of students but I know each year when people want to go and join UCSB or they want to apply there they have like hundreds of thousands of applicants very high likelihood that those people are going to watch day in the life of a UCSB student yeah so like all of those like still pop off even for schools what college did you want to go to what was the plan well originally in high school I applied to colleges but by the end of high school I just didn't want to go but I didn't get in so I couldn't go gone anyway um so I applied to the University of Arizona which I knew I could get in because it's like a 95 acceptance rate and so I went to University of Arizona really yeah because I knew at the time um this sounds bad but like I knew they they didn't really care about covid like they just like they had very little rules there so I could like kind of still film and it was like kind of maskless and like I'm not I'm not like an advocate for that but Florida had been just as good like don't more people go to Florida probably yeah I just being on the west coast and from like the Bay Area like so when people went to Arizona and like I was kind of familiar and I also knew that they love to party and I thought like oh my God this is great content like I have so many ideas so from like all this momentum I had that summer I was like okay now I'm going to college and then from there that's I think the year because I was in college for a year that really like solidified my presence as a YouTuber and like had a community by then and you moved to Arizona and like lived there in Tucson did you actually study and like do classdoor was it purely failing all of my classes so I was I stayed for a year but I only did one semester I did a semester and it was kind of like hybrid online in person and yeah I had like a 1.8 GPA but by like two months and I just like stopped showing up and I was just filming but what about tuition so so it was kind of like a business experience it was a business expense yeah kind of like I was like okay let's let's just do it wow and it was kind of a risk like oh it's kind of expensive like I think it was like 14 000 for a semester and I was like well I always wanted to go to college if I'm ever gonna go it's got to be now before I'm like too old and I was like old I mean I was like 20 year old freshman I was like oh this is kind of weird like oh what's up I'm 17 like oh God like get away kind of thing um God someone don't clip that that's like the opening um but yeah even when I was at College I wanted to like let's just maximize and maximize so we would film I would edit everything in my dorm like living with another student serious yeah so I was doing the full thing so were you like the 20 year old guy gets roomed with like the Freshman or say 19. I mean I was maybe 19 20 20 or something but he the guy I ruined with was 19. okay all right I mean he was never there so okay but yeah I wanted to do the full thing and like document everything yeah now was it easy to get into like anywhere because you had the YouTube channel like I feel like any frat if you say like hey I got a channel I'll put it on the channel you guys will get like way more exposure no no they the frats don't want me to film anything because I mean they do like things that they shouldn't do you know it's like amazing like hazing or something I mean I would never say that my frat haste right come on that's against the rules oh okay against the Brotherhood I'm just kidding um but what would they do like I I never went to college I never got any college experience like what what goes down yeah honestly my uh frat that I joined was called Sigma Alpha mu uh it was really chill like they were really like if you ever want to say no you can just say no so I remember we would do like smoothie night which is basically they would like blend anything put it on the ground you eat it and wait [Music] I don't get that it was just like let's do stupid stuff to make their lives hell you know for entertainment for entertainment for them and looking back I'm not gonna lie maybe like it's not everyone's cup of tea for sure yeah but like the guys I did it with you build such a bond it's almost like going to war I mean I've never been to war it's like I don't know but I'm guessing uh but one of the funniest things we did was we had a courtyard and then they had just like these cups they had um a garbage can one corner and a garbage can the other one was full of water one was not and they all gave us a spoon and so while they were like pelting us with like water balloons and tomatoes or whatever we had to put all the water from one garbage can in the other using spoons while like tied to everybody and it was just hilarious just hilarious that sounds fun see that's something I know for a fact I would love yeah yeah Graham come on let's do a video going back to college finally or something Grant I went back to college that would be a great idea I would do one day oh business yeah I want to do going back to an MBA program for one day at an Ivy League that would be good I would do college for a day honestly I would that'd be a good I try it yeah well then we have to do if you're gonna do that you also have to do like the the gnarly frat version too because I mean that's what people are going to want to see like interest just that reaction is priceless come on I just feel like guys it's stupid like why are we doing this I'd be like starting a lemonade stand you're like so let's raise money for something you want to start lemonade No One's Gonna buy lemonade I don't think I looked 32. I think if I went on a college campus I could blend in perfectly I mean there's a whole range of students too yeah you could be like a graduate student sure or something yeah okay yeah what else did they do like what was the I mean there's like drinking shotgunning keg standing I'm trying to think there is definitely a lot of interesting we never did like an elephant walk or something weird how's that do you know I don't know oh God I don't know an elephant walk an elephant uh this is like the gnarliest of gnarly frat things I've also like feel like now I'm branding myself as a Frack I was only there for a semester guys um but you're the one with the experience you didn't go to college I went to UCSB and I dropped out oh okay but you never know frat no no Elephant Walk is like oh God I can't even explain this oh if the Frat guys watches you're like dude it's like the gnarly thing I've never done I'm not okay but it was like word around town like one frat did it which basically is like you get in the line behind your frat mates or whatever and to me this is really sucks like you put your thumb in their butt and then you hold their their elephant in the back no way yeah I would question whose idea that was in the first place oh my gosh iced coffee hour Elephant Walk bonding wow [Laughter] hey all right I just don't know what I expected I thought I knew it was like alcohol or something that's what I thought too just nothing to do without them yeah you guys never partook no it was never a actual thing Now Grant is excited to go to college he's yeah he's ready to go oh man all right sign me up I'm still fitting we have the red Solo cups too just water guys it's just water during that same year I brought on like my first employee which was like huge for me and yeah I felt like okay like I have an audience I have a routine I have a brand and it was at the same time where I actually came up with um or no it was earlier but it was really strong that like my fans knew me as like my slogan do what excites and basically like people were like having this community with this catchphrase kind of thing can you explain what that means do what excites was something I made up when I was at like my lowest point in my life when I was just like super lonely like borderline depressed just felt like YouTube wasn't gonna work out and this was honestly right right before the summer where things started to pick up I was uh living in between places in between like my first La apartment in my second La apartment and so it was like a two or three month period where I was like living at my grandma's in La just felt like I'm making no money I just feel like such a loser and I just was like in this cycle of sadness and I couldn't like get myself to do anything I'd go to the gym and that was pretty much it never felt like the camera like what I was filming was good enough because nothing was working up into that point and yeah I wrote down one day like what's my favorite emotion out of pure like I'm nothing I have literally nothing so I might as well write something down and I didn't want to write down like happiness or something because I felt like that was didn't mean anything to me and I wrote down excitement and I literally don't remember but I somehow came up with doing excites at that time and I was like I'm just going to do what excites every single day and maybe that'll help and I use that like phrase as like motivation every day and said in every single video and literally just like changed my life as like just a mantra to look in my mirror and be like you're gonna do what excites every day so what were some of those first steps like what excites in those in that situation that you were in I mean I think everyone defines it differently like you know whoever watched the video might be like oh do any size I'm gonna jump out of an airplane or something but I know to me what was like exciting and kind of like okay I'm pushing myself every day to like go after it so I guess it could be like skydiving or overcoming your fears or something like that and that Mantra kind of pushed you through to this next level and now you have a whole brand do what excites and yourself merch and everything like that yeah and it was kind of like kind of like oh discovering who I am and what do I want to push because I always wanted to push something positive and I never had like a catchphrase or something that I really could stand behind and so that was like kind of a big moment I think just for my brand like personal branding online um so ever since I had that I kind of like okay let's just write out do what excites and hey this is what what type of video should I make this week I should do what excites that's the most exciting thing that you've done most exciting thing that I've done well a video that's coming out well I don't know when this comes out might have been out already but I spent 24 hours with the world's tallest man in turkey and to me it was just like so hard to get this it was such a risk that it was so exciting to me so I feel like this is one of those doing exciting moments in rare life moments that I got to have and like super grateful to have flew to the middle of nowhere in Turkey right near the Syrian border and met up with the world's tallest man on his farm spent all day like going around with him and yeah it was just like just a while how did you get in contact with them I just dm'd uh his manager that was inspired yeah and then I and it's not it wasn't a free collab so I had to pay uh his name's Sultan yeah to uh spend the day together and uh I just like you know this year I'm like I want to take the next level like whatever I don't care about money yeah sorry Graham wouldn't he I'm just curious now because I'm trying to think here wouldn't you want the extra exposure like the fact that he gets like a dedicated video from you I think uh this is how he makes his money oh God because he doesn't have like a social presence as much so he does all of his mod like you know his salary or whatever money he's making is just through appearances can I ask how much it was to spend the day with him yeah um so originally his fee just for like two to three hours was four thousand dollars US dollars US Dollars whoa and so I was like I I'd seen other videos he had done with other YouTubers and I was like ah they're just kind of like showing him as a spectacle so I was like I want to do 24 hours like I want to spend a whole day and see what his life is really like because it's kind of crazy to be like he's eight four he's eight four eight four and so yeah to spend all day I paid him eight thousand dollars so there's probably not a return on investment but I was like walk us through that now I'm so curious so like how long did it take to get there like what was your first impression when you met him do you like Paul was but like does he speak English or like how did you guys communicate does he speak it so we brought a translator okay and he spoke I would say like decent English I mean most questions I asked him we had to use a translator but as soon as I saw him he's like Kelly I love America I love America and I would ask some questions about like random things like coffee he's like I love iced coffee you Mike says iced coffee hour random things and yeah we had breakfast we went shopping we played like Turkish games it seemed like a small town so it's not like you can go out and like everybody already knows who he is so they're not like oh my gosh he's a tall guy because I already know who he is I think like a big part of turkey knows who he is oh wow so his town is not tiny where he lives is like on his farm outside of the big town so we went to the big town and it was like BTS like everyone was pulling up to see him we're in a tiny store in the middle of nowhere boom 20 people out of nowhere and taking pictures like hugging him and like giving him tea is or they know who he is or it's like I don't know the language so I couldn't tell like okay are they just taking it because he's a spectacle or I think they also knew who who he was okay but everywhere we went it was like I don't know like BTS Like every like tons of people coming through how old is he 40. and does he have like trouble with mobility and stuff oh yeah so he was using me as like a cane and so he's using you yeah he would I mean it was really cool I mean I was like he would put all of his body weight on me and he also had one crutch that he would use and then we'd walk around what does he do if you like if you weren't there how would he always has someone so he was just like for for our video using me as his person kind of thing so if it wasn't you it'd be another person who's always with him as a yeah okay just to get around why a person and not uh like a like a cane or something on the other side you know I never I didn't ask him that okay so yeah I was curious too he only has one cane like maybe just get two or something I I don't really know but it seems like a person yeah it's like a very because important thing and but not only that but you have to be the right height of person like if like I don't know if I would be good yeah I don't know yeah like that like you have to be the right size to do it I mean I didn't get all the info out of him I have to go back I didn't ask him like that did you ask if he could do a standing dunk he can he can I also without jumping he can just dunk it he can dunk it wow and I asked my Instagram like what do you guys want to know about the world's tallest man and everybody was like how big is his penis and so I asked him and and then I don't think he understood so we still don't know but then but did the translator understand or like yeah so that it was funny because uh yeah because one I was like I don't I don't I didn't feel that comfortable asking him like Hey that's weird it's a weird question like dude it's like so personal like no one says it right and so I asked him uh for when this video comes out like can you like get angry or something at the question and he's like just was so like loving to film and like happy go lucky that he's like sure and I had brought from my house a breakaway bottle so I asked him like how big is your is your penis and then he just hit me with the bottle it's just like it's just a funny moment I'm curious is this furniture in the house larger to fit his size okay as bad as I would say like double the size of a normal bed in length but besides that his like ceilings are low his I was like how are you not like catering to yourself you know uh he's literally ducking under his door and I'm like are you kidding me you're like the world's tallest man I didn't imagine like 4 000 American to see him like he's that's gonna be a ton of money for his location yeah and like he could buy a house probably like just every now and then he has like a few pairs of shoes like lid just sits on the ground and but I think he's happy I don't think you know don't need too much let's go back to you to your time uh in college when you started like I said like that really meteoric ride just wants to know about the elephant I don't want to know more about you check out this video how um how much were you making at the time if you're able to say uh I think at the time I was just getting my foot in the door with brand deals but that was really inconsistent so in college I maybe if like I don't even probably like five to ten thousand a month that's good maybe that's kind of I'm kind of guessing but I'm pretty sure I could be wrong that's very comfortable living extremely comfortable living in college yeah especially the Frat doesn't know but I moved into the second semester and they never charged me so it was cool they never charged it yeah they never charged why did they charge you I think because I moved in second semester and everyone was like long-term living so I got lucky there too why didn't you continue at College I didn't feel as satisfied like okay I knew this door is going to close and I was just like I feel ready to move on the content was getting a little repetitive and I wasn't a student I just felt like that wasn't me I thought I thought it was really fun for that year but uh I was just ready like hey let's why don't I get ready for like actual life and build the content that's gonna sustain me like for more years than if I build myself so much as a college vlogger and then like as soon as College ends like what do I do like what do I do and so I kind of wanted to always make sure that I wasn't making only College videos and I could like you know make videos that I could make after college and how did you notice that transition uh with your own success like what was it positively uh responded to when you didn't go to college it was hard yeah I think I the audience I had which I would say like averaged like 200 000 views per video during college or or more and after that the content for me was hard to make because I was so like all my friends are here I have you know filmer lives in Arizona and the things were rolling I had you know the jokes with the certain campuses like oh just make a college video like it's super easy and so after it was a little bit more of rediscovering and I also just like bumping around place to place because I didn't want to sign a lease just somewhere random so there was probably a good five months I was just like what am I doing so another like damn like not rock bottom just like what am I doing like is this it again how do you figure out a way around that just keep showing up and then eventually we moved uh three other friends to New York City so from college I moved to New York City last year which was your mom's house which is like a Creator house that we had last year what was the motivation behind doing a Creator house I had always wanted to live in Creator house I felt like you know those were like the people I love spending time with because like we have such a shared passion and so I was like literally willing to do whatever it takes to like end up in a crater house because you know you know content creation can be really lonely and my my whole like where I was really struggling was because I was so alone feeling that uh I just wanted to be around Creator so I was like we'll do it whatever it takes you know cold calling meeting up with people like oh you're a Creator like let's meet up and try to make something happen so you decided to go with the Creator house here in New York City and did you notice that the Creator house positively affected your success as a YouTuber and was it like drastic if so of course I mean I wouldn't say it's drastic because like fuse probably went from like 250k to like maybe like 400k that's that's pretty substantial but like I feel like also like look back like some of my videos would do that or like more or something so it was just like building that audience and definitely there was more um eyeballs because like yeah we have three people that were always collaborating with and yeah I can't say that didn't help like we were making videos all together building a brand together and everybody was looking forward to our videos every single week and would be like okay I'm gonna watch uh Elliot's video and then Emery's video then Kelly's video then Ashley's video so it was like really it's cool like sitcom where you get to see yeah perspectives like it's cool it reminds me of like the the David David dobrik thing yeah like everyone in their own like perspective content and then and everybody came in with the audience so it's kind of like we're just like yeah you guys know the Critter house and just constantly collabing but now you're in this spot and the last house was it just ended yeah uh I mean it's like pretty public like just just didn't end well and it was a lot we had some differences and I think we're in the beginning we were just like very naive and didn't look at the big picture of things we just like literally put four strangers together almost like expecting it to work in like day one started like making videos together and yeah we just at the end just didn't renew the lease and everyone went kind of like separate ways what were some of the differences I would say like just the level of like how much they love YouTube and want to do that forever kind of thing I think some certain people just like wanted different things out of YouTube and content creation and also like different rates of how much they can work like me I could like literally film all day every day and just like that's like where I get my energy where I think a lot of people like hey I need to like take days off or just like not film for a week or two I think there was always this like balance of filming and not filming so I think I mean obviously like crater houses do work but just this one didn't work Andrew so the difference in business perspectives and you said that when you guys initially moved in together like it was nearly strangers so there was no like real conversation beforehand of course there was cons like a conversation right right sure conversations but but uh but like hanging out with each other like getting to know each other yeah so like I was really good friends with Elliot so like that was like a solidified relationship but Emery and Ashley were pretty like I didn't know Ashley really I had met Anne-Marie before and so that was kind of like you know uh you know I knew one person really well and then the rest were kind of like we're like gonna learn about each other interesting yeah and then from there basically the after the end of the lease you guys decided to to come get this spot over here and uh it's similar it's a kind of a Content house right yeah I think we just learned from the last one like hey let's just all do our own thing we still live together as creators so it's kind of like we have co-workers and also just like friends I mean literally everyone who lives in this house now just like we're just friends like we barely even filmed together we just like hang out um but yeah it is similar I guess in the last one what are some of the key takeaways like things that you learned from the first content house that you had I think you have to look really big picture when you're building like a business with other people so a lot of times there's so many cooks in the kitchen everyone has different ideas it's really hard when there's four people coming up with one solution so I guess like in the future I would just be like one just do it myself or maybe like one partner or something like that I'm trying to think I really would never have changed anything like it was a great time I think everyone who was involved like had like you know such a crazy experience that we'll all remember and laugh about in a few years so do you wish you could have made it work I mean we definitely tried to make it work and it was like almost like a relationship like with a girlfriend or boyfriend and I think we're just really trying and if not everyone is trying it kind of can't work and we had a whole year to keep keep growing and we had everything was working like exterior I guess if that makes sense like online everything was totally working but I think as a just a community and like hey are we going to invest the next you know five years of Our Lives to try to build this to be like a sidemen because we're really looking at all these other content collectives like hey can we do this as well interesting so you saw it as kind of building a business with other people not so much as like yo we're all going to move in together and just kind of film content around each other and then that's that no no I totally thought it was just for filming content the business I was at the end oh is that just kind of not was a byproduct of everyone living yeah we never made any money together it was all individual channels so we were just all filming together but by the end it was kind of like okay should we because we had already like from the beginning like we can make group Channel videos it'd be so fun to like make group videos just send it to an editor it's not like someone's baby just be like yeah because everyone's so creatively different but by the end then that's where there was talks of like okay well if we renew if we kind of like Stay Together kind of do this thing like let's do it or don't kind of thing and that's when a lot of things just like went downhill and then it was just like okay this is not happening interesting but now here at this place it's it's like uh I would say it's not so much you're seeing it as like a business it's more so like what you had initially in mind where everybody has their own like videos and it's just kind of like hanging out with each other and shooting content like that we're literally just roommates and then like if we want to be like yo can you help me get a shot well yeah I'll help you get a shot or like get a you know if you want me in your video or something but the last one I never saw like really like that business minded because I'm really not business minded at all like I'm just like I'm just gonna make the video so like every week just make the videos but here it's just like like it's just my roommate and then we happen to be friends as well one thing that I noticed about your content and I know most people probably wouldn't label it this way but it could kind of be described as like like self-help or development right because you you talk about like how to not give an f sure or like how to not care about certain things and also like body transformation stuff as well yeah which I found kind of interesting how do you learn to not give an f or to care well I have a great video for you to get my video synopsis recommendations or uh no I I think I actually watched that video but yeah I mean yeah like it's a to me it's a repetition thing it's a practice thing and I think it's an identity thing I think if you kind of like in my in the beginning it might be hard to you know just not if you're really not confident and then be like I'm confident it is a slow you know not an overnight thing but I do think like you know confidence is a choice and I say that because everyone can you know go to the gym can work on themselves everybody can read or work harder on their business or anything so I think in that video and when I was trying to convey was just you know one and you know Inspire hopefully but just tell my story because I didn't actually the video title is how not to give a f but really it just tells my story of how I learned and I was just sharing my experience rather than telling you how you have to do it because I because I don't know how how to tell Graham to not give an f or you know it's just like I only know what I know how'd you learn practice I would say practice and like consistently going out of my comfort zone and becoming the person that I want to be kind of like writing down hey if I want to be at or not athletic because that's like kind of like genetics or whatever but like hey I want to have a good body that I feel comfortable in that like this is what I like or I want to make this amount of money so I don't feel like insecure with that like it's like I think just like kind of like working on those maybe insecurities or things that I feel less confident about and in that journey of like trying to get confident I think is where I learned that like where you're was already you could be confident with it why do you think it's important or in what situations do you think it is important to not give an f i mean I think you know living life with a bunch of other people's thoughts about you in mind is a really limited life and if you're always constantly thinking about what people will perceive you as like you're just gonna live a less fun life and I know from experience like I used to be like out in public you know filming like oh my God is someone looking at me or then I I remember like literally developing a stutter because I would get nervous of filming be like what's up guys um but you know after so many years like now I can smoothly say what's up guys like you know in front of you know anybody or something not that I actually say what's up guys what's up guys it's Graham here so it's just like literally just through repetitions and practice of getting out of your comfort zone sometimes just challenging challenging yourself to to do weird and crazy things that you wouldn't normally do out in public or whatever sure yeah I think that is one one way and to you might be different like whatever your insecurities are or things that you need to tackle in order to feel like 100 confident that you don't give an f is what you should do like you know if you want to do a Consulting call I could you know four thousand two hours I need to make up my money what um what are you insecure about now that's a great great opportunity great question go straight open um I mean I've even said it on my channel oh no this is like that's not what I'm insecure that was like old insecurity um I would say now I'm just like really like can I can I take this to the next level with my YouTube I just feel like I'm still a small Creator and I think I'll kind of always have this insecurity of like am I good enough am I funny enough am I good enough at editing or storytelling and I think that's just because a comparison is kind of a you know the thief of joy in that sense where you see everybody online you see iced coffee hour pulling numbers and you go what what am I doing you know and so yeah I think that's something that I'll always have in the back of my mind like just uh maybe it's a little bit of competitiveness and also insecurity of like I want to be one of the better YouTubers sometimes insecurities and beliefs like that can serve you which in this case it sounds like it kind of is it's like a big motivator for you yeah I'm pretty like straight to the point with myself like a lot of people be like oh like positivity like oh you should look in the mirror and be like you're gonna you're amazing person you're so awesome but I I kind of like to look at him and you're like you're fat as [ __ ] you did nothing today and so that kind of gets my like getting it going gets me going a little bit more but you know everyone's different I don't expect everyone to be like David Goggins or something what was your old insecurity body was definitely one I was a little chubby when I was little and my family was like super athletic like all my siblings went D1 soccer and my mom is like also a soccer player so like me being chubby I was like looking to my left and right like damn y'all got six packs like I got the bakery and so that was definitely one of my first uh insecurities that I wanted to you know I guess conquer and that's like an endless grind obviously I got a couple a what a couple of insecurities uh yeah uh my first one was body hair I just have copious amounts of body hair I'm walking like gorilla yes awesome it's everywhere man you're playing it's there uh but I would say that was probably like my biggest insecure no but no I think the one that I thought was silly was I think with the face oh yeah asymmetrical face I don't see it well that's because you're you're saying it you don't have a symmetrical face yes and a lot of people don't do you see it of course he sees it I mean people is that the first thing you noticed when you saw Jackson yeah it was I didn't want to say it stop well first of all you have great face yeah you did you guys all have great faces we all have great faces but to say it's not symmetrical I mean I don't know I don't even notice it it doesn't like yeah that but that's because a lot of people don't notice people's insecurities exactly why they're so confident already you know I think that it's funny because someone pointed this out to me it's like if you walk into a Starbucks and you open up the door for the Starbucks and somebody's like kind of far and you're like okay am I gonna hold it open for them yeah and then you're like okay I'm not going to and then you rush in but then they kind of like did a quick leap to try to like get in the door you know what I mean like you're gonna be thinking about that for the next day but they are gonna forget about it in two minutes so a lot of the times the point here is that you remember your own faults and things are such a big deal to you when to other people it doesn't matter it doesn't matter that's true I also always say that you're not that special I always tell myself you're not that special like no one cares like you could fall and like pour milk all over yourself and people forget in two seconds like you just said no one cares you know I saw short on that either it was a YouTube video or something like that where a guy was like just to prove that point yeah like I think you like I forget what he did he did something so crazy in public like nuts with he's running on his underwear like screaming or something like covered in oil people were just walking by like wouldn't even look well that's yeah I feel like they definitely noticed it yeah thinking about that too for them they told their friends yeah but my point being it's like no one stopped him no one laughed like just people were just like minding their own business and kept like walking by yeah just no one paid a minute yeah but I do see those tick tocks of those that guy as well people don't care about what you do oh yeah I like this like oh I could just walk up here and I can stand on this park bench and I can say hello to this stranger I love this videos because he's like you can control your own reality yeah and you could do whatever you want just look it's I think it's so cool yeah I mean yeah yeah I would say that's like a similar message to do what excites or anything kind of just like hey Propel you know my audience to just like hey you could do whatever you want create your own reality reality and just like live the life that you want pretty much let's bring up the topic of income real quick a good question we ask a lot of the guests is if you were to create a pie and assign a value to each slice in the pie what would your income look like on that pie so like sources basically okay um AdSense brand deals merchandise are definitely the biggest and then maybe a little bit of affiliates so is that like 30 30 10. it's like no I would I would say brand deals is definitely the biggest chunk then AdSense and merch is very similar so I would say those like would be almost a third a third a third but I would say brand deals is maybe half the pie interesting so brand deals is probably your your largest income Source yeah Brands pay a lot of money what sort of brands are you getting I just did one with like Samsung you did one with Samsung yes Samsung who's bringing you these deals uh just well I have a management yeah um I used to be with select woohoo we're great and then I'm now with Whaler okay and yeah they're both great management and yeah we've been you know nor vpn's very casual sponsors on YouTube or I'm trying to think who else that are like because they're great Brands better help there's a good amount what other cool ones I feel like I've had some cool ones I feel like Brands really like your content because it's very positive I I hope so yeah that'd be awesome I mean yeah this is wholesome wholesome content you know it makes you feel better when you watch it well thank you yeah thank you so for the future what excites what are the plans I'm just gonna dive and put my head down with the videos I'm doing and making sure like I'm investing 100 effort into them and I think the end result of that will be awesome I guess and that's and what's the desired end result or is it just right now it's just focusing in and just having fun with the content making yeah I think like I honestly could care less about the money or anything besides just like let's make bangers like let's literally just make the best videos we can and that's really what like feeds me as just like a person like even the boxing thing with something that's like well that's kind of extra like I don't have to do that I probably could just do a day in the life video but I'm like kind of tired of that I'm like that's not pushing myself so just like the world's tallest man video like that's like my new standard like I just want to go on crazy adventures and document them and tell like the best story I can seems like a like a yes Theory except for your perspective yeah just from my perspective I would say it's very cool I'm waiting for that collab yes Theory Amar he's you want to collab with them yeah we know him on the podcast you know yeah Mars great um I invited him actually to the world's tallest man it's like you should come but he couldn't at the time I'm just curious about you guys and how you guys run the podcast and everything and this is probably out online but I don't know do you have you don't do a podcast right you I don't do it I did have one though with the uh oh yeah we did have one yes with uh your mom's house yeah do you plan on starting one at some point in the future um not really yeah I think I'm just better at making videos rather than talking I'm just okay at talking I think we're still trying to figure out the podcast to be honest with you we don't know what we're doing and uh we're trying to get better at it we realize we have a lot of shortcomings here yeah and a lot of things could be improved Jack so um so we're still learning so yeah like even us coming to New York was like an experiment to see like what it's like to travel for guests yeah it's just sustainable do we like it yeah I think it's very clear in like day one we like it so we want to do this more it's a big hill to climb yeah like I mean and also just like you guys together I always think like you know you guys both live in Vegas right yeah and then you know what if you guys move or something you kind of stay together you just got to stay together yeah well I was living with uh I moved in with him in La that's where we started the podcast and then like right after I went full time with him and dropped out of college he was like all right I'm moving to Vegas I'm like well looks like I'm moving to Vegas yeah so and that's you know big to know but I feel like you guys could always but you know what I wouldn't have moved if you weren't 100 aboard and Macy was not 100 of course not this guy looks after me he's a great guy but of course I wasn't about it just like drop out and be like all right I'm going all in in the rejection we talked about it for a while my dude are you into this idea would you do it um are you open to trying it out and I think we both went in with the mindset like we could try it for a year like the worst case if we hate it we could always change but like give it a year and we'll know pretty quick and same thing with Macy it was like we could we could try it out see if we like it yeah pretty immediate I think we liked it so it worked out but yeah it had it been like the sucks we could always just go back yeah yeah and I have a question too you know I feel like a lot of your branding online is very like I would say maybe like on an extreme and like penny pinching a little bit is that true like is that very like you like like today what have you spent today oh I was I was good today actually I treated um these are kind of interesting I did get hit with a venmo request for that experience no you did not do that Jack and our 50 work for business partners on the floor it doesn't make sense yeah that's yeah no I spent in total today uh I would have paid Alex's Uber or whatever you spent getting here 40 bucks 40 bucks um but I guess it's a that's part of the iced coffee or whatever to bring all the equipment and Alex having Alex here um so forty dollars plus 15 for sweet Greens Plus seven bow but no so 15 30 plus 40 uh so 70 is how much I've spent today but most of that is like I think what we're getting to right here is he's very frugal he still does like if we go to a restaurant he will save the the temporary utensils if he doesn't use them he will that's just yeah he will like that he will reuse his flosser like several times several times uh just my dad's a dentist I don't think that's good your dad's a dentist though uh you know I'm not the dentist but whatever all right yeah you're not the dentist though yeah genuinely very cheap like like definitely far more uh sorry not cheap but Frugal far more frugal than I would say probably anyone I've ever met so do you and your fiance spend time together yes uh but you know what we we are still trying to figure some of it out I would say I'd say in the beginning we really had like this dedicated schedule where it was like you know weekends and then weekdays after like seven we had a very uh regimented schedule and sometimes like things will come up and it so now we do our best usually like one day a week dedicated to like just doing stuff and then usually every weekday after like eight I'm done or sometimes earlier uh so we find that yeah that's good work life balance is always good I always I ask because um because of Ashley and obviously that we are we have a work-life balance you know both and I'm just curious what another couple does yeah and especially as a YouTuber couple or I mean you as someone who's a YouTuber with a girlfriend yeah yeah and a dog and a cat oh and a dog and a cat yeah and a fish tank in a fish tank you got your hands full the whole thing so that's what makes traveling kind of difficult because I get antsy over not seeing the fish for like because things yeah now I know it's different but the fish tank like um I checked I checked the parameters every day for my phone to make sure you have a camera like you can see the eye Joe you can I do yeah oh wow do you have names for the fish uh Macy does I don't okay that's his fiance you know I'm also curious how you got into YouTube I mean both you guys how you got into like creating I just always want to make YouTube videos and I just decided one day after putting it off for years that I was gonna film a video and put it out there and make content that I thought would be helpful that I wished I could have seen and I loved it so much I just continued and what was this uh December of 2016 was when I posted my first video and then I started posting one to two times a week in January of 2017 and then it went to three times a week I think in February or March like pretty quick because I realized when I was posting like once a week I'd get like a certain amount of views and I thought well let me do twice a week and I did that night the view started to actually like grow and I was like well if I do three times a week and then I just decided pretty quickly on that that was like the perfect amount to grow yeah I think you know YouTube's ever changing so it's good to like look at you know what you know the audience is you know responding to so because I feel like nowadays quality is really important versus back in the day I feel like we could get away with a lot of quantity um but nowadays everyone has so many options so you like yeah Tick Tock yeah I was comparing it earlier there's so many more people on the platform so that like in the past let's just say there would be one docus Style video a week that would come out from like one Creator I was like okay they get all the views but everything else now is like up for grabs yeah but now you have 10 creators each posting these insane docu Style videos independently and so there's one every single day uh so you have to up your quality because everyone else is yep um and there's more for people to pick from so like you have to be even more selective yeah for sure if I can ask how big your operationally how many people do you guys or do you work you see like basically the whole team here really okay Andrew back in Vegas what about like editors and stuff Andrew's back in Vegas Andrew and Alex helps on the main Channel Alice is like 90 of the main Channel there's maybe the occasional video that I'll just bang out really quick um but that's it it's a really small team and uh you know I think we gotta we're talking about maybe hiring someone full time to do guest Outreach who knows that like that's their business is just like linking people together with podcasts yeah and like doing the media stuff so we don't know that that well we don't have this connection so yeah that's someone that we think about maybe you know bringing on the team yeah I feel like a small team is good especially for Content it becomes like I think a little bit less genuine the more and more you become big yeah so yeah I admire the people who have really small teams and like we we did Dr Mike the other night and just seeing like she's just in his apartment it was just really cool it's just like him and two guys and they're just all buddies and I I like that I like that a lot cool well thanks man I really appreciate it yeah thank you for hosting us I love the playhouse the other thing that I do want to mention to you is that you can't you guys can check me out Publications somewhere in the description Kelly's got his stuff linked down below thank you so much for tuning in and until just public.com right you'll do it what is public.com