Meet The Millionaire Who Lives With His Parents

Welcome back to the Ice Coffee Hour. This is Humphrey Yang and so far the podcast has made $29,000. Oh my gosh. You're the closest to actual guests we've ever received. Incredible. Yeah. $213,332. I almost said 212, but I had watched that one that you did last last week with the billionaire the billionaire son. What's his name? Bobby Mizner. Yes. Bobby Mizner. And it was 203, so I was like, I'm gonna go in there with like 209. Fantastic. Yeah. You're a podcast fan. Yeah, I watch them all. Not all of them, but I watch a lot of them. Well, thank you so much for coming on the uh the iced coffee hour. We're confronting a Tik Tok finance guru. [laughter] Yes. You got 3.3 million followers on Tik Tok. Uh you're a financial adviser as well. I used to be Maril Lynch. Nice. And how did you get started? Tell us a bit about your journey. How did you go from financial advisor to Tik Tok finance guru? How far do you want me to go? like all the way. All the way. Yeah. So, I was born in the Bay Area, Redwood City. That's the name of the city. But, uh, I'll just skip forward to the financial advisory part. [laughter] I graduated from college with a finance degree and from Loyala Marmont University down in LA. And, um, I did a tech job for like a year, like a video game job, like customer support. Um, and then what I did was I wanted to always try my hand in finance because I had the finance degree. And I felt like for some reason that my dad would like it because he's very Chinese and it's like want to prove to my dad that I can do it. And so I became a financial adviser for a year. I didn't really like it. I didn't do a good job. And I left after a year and then I went back to tech. So I went to into mobile video games. And I've always had this like dual passion of like video games and finance and then also just like getting better at things or like growing things. And so I thought growing social media was always pretty fun. And I've always watched YouTube. Like from a really young age, I was watching YouTube. Like when it first came out in 2007, 2008, I was watching a lot of it. And so basically, I was doing my mobile video game job. I' I'd come across like an MKBHD video. I'd come across a Casey Neistat video. Then I started watching some Graham Stefen videos. And uh that's kind of how I got started with the whole content thing. In 2019, I made three YouTube videos just to test. In the summer, I was kind of bored. I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do next. And uh it didn't do that well. No surprise. There's no no no followers there. But at the end of 2019, I looked on TikTok and I searched for the hashtagpersonal finance and there was none. There were like no videos. There was like one guy making stock videos and I was like, "Okay, this is my opportunity. I've been listening to a lot of Naval Ravocant and he was like, you want to be first and you like you want to scale with media." And so that's when I started I made like a commitment to make 30 Tik Tok videos in 30 days. And by the end of 30 days, I think I had like 120,000 followers. Did you really? Wow. Because you could make a really bad video, like what is credit? And I was no camera presence, bad script, bad lighting, worst lighting, like the worst lighting possible, and it would get like 20,000 views. And for a new account getting 20,000 views on a what is credit video, I was stoked. I was like, "All right, let's try this out. Let's try this out." And uh I just stuck with the 30 days. I got to 60 days. Then I got to 90 and I was like, I might as well push for 100. And then after 100, I was like, I can't stop now. And it was 2020. It was a pandemic. I got nothing to do. And I ended the streak at like 262 days of a Tik Tok every day. And I don't know if you remember, we talked. Yeah. In like April or May of 2020, I called into the Graham Stefen Show. I had like 300 400,000 subscribers at the time, followers at the time. And uh yeah, like that's kind of the story. Why'd you break your stream? Cool. I hit a million followers and I was like, I don't know what like why am I still keeping the streak alive? I didn't really know what to do next and so that's kind of why I did it. Were you making any money throughout that process? Yeah, I think when I called you on the Graham Stefen show, I had made at that moment like $4,000 and I had 400,000 followers on TikTok. And I remember we us we were talking about some brand deals and stuff and my first brand deal offered me like $2,000 for a post and I was like super stoked. Like that was awesome. But for a really long time, I just didn't take any sponsors on the Tik Tok channel. Yeah. And still, I'm kind of not against sponsors, but I don't take that many sponsorships. And so, to answer your question, I think in 2020, I made like $19,000 off of content. How else were you making money though? Because you probably have expenses, rent, mortgage, what were you doing? Uh, so I was an e-commerce consultant. Okay. So, between my tech job, I left my tech job in 2016. I started my own e-commerce business basically selling posters and that I grew that pretty substantially. But then I was became a consultant for other types of e-commerce businesses. So I was supplementing my income with that and I also lived at home and I still live at home actually. So I'm I live at home with my parents. Didn't you mention that on the Graham Stefen show? Did you? I think I did. Okay. Yeah. And I think so I am 34 years old and why did you grimace? because I still live at home, but my dad's gone nine months out of the year. Okay. And it's only him. So, basically, I have the house to myself. I haven't really felt the need to move out yet. But I want to this year because I'm getting a little bit bored at home and I get kind of complacent and I get kind of in the same routine. And so far, I think this year I've kind of realized like it's not really making me happy anymore to stay at home and I'd rather just spend the money to to move out somewhere. It's a very US thing I think to move out really quickly. It seems like everywhere other than the US, like it's customary to live at home almost until like you get married and at which point you you get your own place. Yeah. And I did move out uh at the age of like 20 28 for a year. I lived in the city San Francisco and I had an okay time, but I would still drive down to like my hometown and go to all my favorite like my coffee shops and my favorite restaurants and my gym down there. Mh. And I just felt like I'd never like experienced the city life. I was just kind of commuting from the city back to my own hometown. So I was like, why am I even doing this? Yeah. And I was paying like 2k a month in rent. And I thought it was okay, but I wasn't really like living my best life because I had a couple roommates. They're great roommates. But um at some point I was just like I'm just going to move home because it's just seems so easy. But at this point it's been five years since then and getting a little bit bored at home and don't know where else to move. I can move anywhere t tech technically with my job, but I feel really bad leaving my dad. Like my dad's 90. That's that's another thing. Oh yeah. Okay. So my dad's 90. He's in really great shape, so he travels a lot. But I feel really bad leaving him. And I would feel super guilty if I like moved to like New York or Texas or Las Vegas or anywhere and then something were to happen to him, right? And it's like I I don't get those years back. I don't get that time with him back. I agree with that. So if I were to move, I would move somewhere like San Francisco where I could just drive back for the weekend if he was home or I could be at home when he's home and then the rest of the time I can just be in the city. I agree with that. Yeah. So tell us when you're making these Tik Tok videos, how are you coming up with ideas? Is there a formula to like going viral on Tik Tok? I think in the early days it was it was easier because there was no finance content, right? And as long as I picked a topic that was somewhat interesting and I had a good hook and I could hook people into a story about finances or learning something about how much a Hydro Flask cost, that was good enough to go viral. I had a couple good viral hits in 2020, but I' I would say since then it's been really hard. What are you noticing now with Tik Tok? Um, like how has it changed? Finance Tik Tok or just Tik Tok in general? Both. Finance Tik Tok seems like it's kind of like a content farm. Like you just farm the videos. Let's let's make a skit about credit utilization. And so it's like, hey, what's credit utilization? I don't know. You tell me. [laughter] I mean, it's like very and you know, I [snorts] I I think I'm partially to blame for that because I took that format from another creator called Edmani Explains and he's a great guy and he was making these business skits back in like April of 2020. I was like, "Oh, let me just take that and simplify it for like broader finance." But now that is like the de facto format for finance who created that. So I noticed Mark Tilbury does it. Erica Colberg was the one who really did it with like the life hacks. Where did you learn that? I learned it from Erica. Can we trace it back like who was the first to have done like that sort of because I'm sure it didn't originate in finance. I'm sure it came from something else. It initially came from like these comedic skits like people would just make really funny skits on Tik Tok and that was like the trend on Tik Tok in 2020. Just make these funny skits of you talking to yourself, right? And then and Monty was really the guy who took it to business. He started to cuss in them. He was explaining like why Elon wants to take over Twitter this year for example, but it was all business focused. And I think at that point we had a small finance Tik Tok community on like a Slack chat or Discord chat or something. And uh we just were kind of bouncing ideas off of each other and I was like oh let me try this skit format. I think my first one was what is a dividend? And that first one did like six million views off the bat man. And that whole summer like from July to September every skit I made a million views. two million views, 10 million views. Like, it was just crazy. It was crazy the amount of people that loved it at the time and how easy it was to explain a financial concept because it's so it's so easy to explain a financial concept when it's conversational. So, that did really well, but then I would say in 2021 it started to kind of like I noticed that it didn't do as well anymore. And then now this year, like after the life hack stuff, Erica Colberg, shout out. We like Erica. I love Erica. But it's like everyone's seen that format now. So, like it's really hard to differentiate that format. Or like I feel like people scroll and they see the the the skit format, they're like, "Yeah, scroll away." Yeah. It's so interesting on TikTok just how fast uh trends change. And I feel like something could be in for like a week and then it's done and it's played out like you have to find the next one. Yeah. Yes. And no, I would say I would say with finance content, it's really topical. So like the topics that do well will always do well because people want to hear it again and people have like the shortest term memory on TikTok. Like after two months, you don't even remember what you saw. So like if you saw another one, that's fine. But first, we got to thank our sponsor Stash. Graham, I've been saving up some money recently and I just don't know what to do with this fast vast cash stash that I received. What? The Fast Cast Vast Stash. [laughter] Jack, I think I think you just answered it with your your last rhyme. Stash. Stash is a personal finance app that helps make investing easy and affordable. Over 6 million Americans already use it, and that's because Stash is super simple, and you don't need a lot of money to start investing. And they even let you buy fractional shares. And that means you're able to invest in stocks like Amazon, Apple, Tesla, and more with less than just $5. And Stash also offers tools like automatically investing on a set schedule to help you build good financial habits, which by the way is something that you should already be doing if you're watching the channel. Stash offers three simple plans starting at just $1 a month. And seriously, guys, getting started with them is a breeze. Just download the Stash app, add cash to your account, and start investing in your favorite stocks in minutes. So, join the more than 6 million people who know that it's never too early to invest in yourself and sign up for Stash today. And to do that, the link is down below in the description. Again, there's a link down below in the description to get started with Stash today. And guys, they are running a huge promotion. If you sign up with that link, they will give you a $50 bonus when you deposit just $1 in your account. It's a no-brainer. You guys should sign up with that link down below in the description. Thank you so much, Stash. And back to the podcast. So, you could remake the same video a few times. Yeah, I actually have remade the same video maybe three or four times, but told it somewhat differently, change the words around or maybe use a different example and it does just as well. Sometimes you can even straight repost a video and it does better the second time. And I don't really repost, but there are some other financial creators I've talked to. They're like, "Why don't you just repost?" I've I've always I'm I'm not I can't try this, but I've always been curious to take an old video of mine and just repost it as new. Yeah, I'm curious how it would do. I I just want to explain. Jack, why are you laughing, man? I'm curious. We talked about this a while ago. I'm just curious. I just think it's so lazy, Graham. [laughter] It's like you're trying so hard not to miss your your upload schedule by posting something that already been posted before. Graham, what are you thinking, man? I'm curious how it'll do. It'll probably do well. What if it's the same video? Yes. on YouTube. If I post the same video and I have it listed as an old video, uh, but I just reposted a year later, is that going to be recommended against the old video? Is YouTube going to know that it's a reupload? We could try this on the the He has this great video. I always loved it. But it's like, who makes more after x amount of years? Is it the plumber or the doctor? And I love that video. I watched it such a long time ago. And uh, I think that video is perfectly evergreen. It could be posted whenever. And your original thumbnail was so bad. And I feel like the title wasn't that great, but it's decent. And you could remake that exact same video and it could do like super well. That's that's better for a Tik Tok video. I'll give you the idea for Tik Tok. For YouTube, I couldn't make that video. But basically, I came came up with this like four years ago. You know what? I didn't come up with that. I think I saw someone else who did some sort of comparison between someone who did a trade versus a physician who had a higher net worth at the age of like 45 and 50. And the answer was you'd make more money. You'd have a higher net worth working in the trades than you would becoming a doctor by the age of like 50. And it wasn't until a person became like mid-50s that did the physician actually make more money. Why is that? Debt. Yeah. Student loan debt and the age at which you really start making money. So for a doctor, they didn't really start making a, you know, serious income until their mid-30s at the very earliest versus a tradesman, uh, I tracked the income. If they started working at 18 years old with no student debt, that gave them such a huge advantage with the compound interest. Does that also assume that that tradesman was making good decisions investing? Correct. Yeah. But also that assumes the doctor is as well, right? Got Yeah, the doctor could be buying a brand new 7 series BMW to park outside of the side of the office and like 10 secretaries and you know, they could do a whole bunch of stuff as well. For sure. But yeah, what about you? How's uh what are you what are you doing on YouTube right now? So, right now we have my main channel which went through a bit of an existential crisis the past three months. I didn't really know what to make and I kind of wanted to make it more broad like I wanted to make like broad business essays but they just didn't don't do well on the main channel. So, what I've done is I've created a second channel. I'm going to post them there. And the whole reason behind that is that I'm just still going to keep the main channel the main channel which is like personal finance and investing advice. And then on the second channel, just kind of build build this like library of content that's hopefully bingeable for that audience. What's a broad business essay? Something like how Amazon makes money or the dark side of casinos. So kind of like a documentary type thing. Yeah. Jake Wendover. Yeah. If you Jake Trann that video, I think it would be so [laughter] well. You sunny B2 that video. You Patrick CCD that it would do so well. Yeah. So yeah, that's the idea is like, okay, let's do business essays, but I'm going to be more in the video. So it's not completely voice over. Like I'll be part of some of the videos. So that's actually why we're here as well as we're going to film that video about casinos tomorrow at the casino. What's the video on casinos? It's uh I think we have two titles. The first is called the the dark side of slot machines or it's called How Ugly Carpets Make Casinos Massive Profits. No, I don't like that. Okay. Yeah, I got two. I don't mind the ugly carpets because it's really thoughtprovoking. So, if you could somehow uh like have like a the classic YouTuber thing right now is a big red arrow pointed at like a disgusting carpet. How this makes casinos X. I probably wouldn't say ugly carpets, how this makes casinos millions. Why? Why all casinos have ugly carpets? Maybe something like that. I don't know. I think how this with a big That's just me though. That's kind of like the new YouTube style. YouTube style. It's a huge red arrow pointing at something kind of obscure that's thoughtprovoking. Exactly. But I actually don't mind that at all. There was a video uh that I saw that went super viral about how a door makes some Twitch streamer a bunch of money. Yep. It was that and that did extremely well. So you could do something similar. It's actually the exact thumbnail like inspiration I had but just with a carpet and just like make everything else black besides the carpet with a little arrow to it. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's like stuff like that. So tell Yeah. So tell us about that. I mean, what's it's not going to be Jake Tran, which is all voice over, but he's he's in at the end, so credit Jake Tran. He's at the end, but it's more just like I'm the host and then like you're going to see me 15% of the time on camera, but then it'll still be mostly B-roll. Yeah. So, tell us about the dark side of the casino. What do you want to know? What the video is about? What the house always wins. The the carpets are distracting, so it's like disorienting. There's like four psychological ways that casinos get you to stay inside the casino, right? Like carpets are ugly. uh no clocks or windows. They have curving hallways where you know they don't want you to make a right hand turn because a right a hard right turn activates the decision-making part of your brain. So like you don't want that. So they all curve and they all have maze like layouts. And then we talk about the business breakdown like the the revenue breakdown of casino because it's not all from gambling. It's actually mostly from rooms and entertainment and and actually uh shopping and like food. And then yeah, it's only 30% of casino profits, at least at MGM, is from Wait, I thought that they give all of the rooms to the really big high rollers. They do, but they still make a lot of money on the rooms. Like we paid 340 for our room tonight for a night on Wednesday. So, so yeah, it's like that. And then the last part of the video is on slot machines because slot machines actually make the most money for casinos, right? Just straight up. They make a lot of money and a lot of people play them. Doesn't really make sense why they play them. I think they're boring, but some people love them and they make like five times as much revenue for the casino than blackjack or craps or roulette. So, that's why they're everywhere. Now, what about online casinos? Didn't do any research there. [laughter] That would be interesting. That's what I think they're going to be cracking down on pretty soon. Twitch video. I would say that make that the next video. The more I'm seeing about how much these Twitch streamers are making from from online casinos, it's staggering. Staggering. Millions a month. Yes. Per month. Yeah. They run their own casino. Yeah.$2 to3 million a month just to get paid to gamble. Uh who was it that turned it down? I think it was Msk who said that he turned down I think it was like $800,000 a month and he only had to stream for 15 hours a month. Yeah. And then he said that his like uh he's like but that doesn't mean that everybody has a price. He's like cuz if somebody's paying me like I think he said 10 million a month he'd take it. Yeah. Something like that. Oh, you know what? Yeah. Shamelessly, I will say. Yeah. He said he said it was $10 million a year. Oh, there it is. Yep. Yeah. $10 million a year was his offer. Um or how much he was offered to gamble for 15 hours a month on Twitch? On Twitch. And it's this weird gray area because like technically they're not breaking a law, but at what point does that influence children's desire to maybe gamble where they shouldn't? Right. Right. Yeah, I think what what they should do. Why isn't there like a website where you could just This would be a good idea. A website that you could stream just gambling like just that you have to enter like your age or like you know I'm 21 years old. So you can watch it when you're only 18. No. So you could watch it if you're I don't know what the if it's 18 or 21. I don't know. But like whatever it is you have to like select I'm 18 years old and it's just a website that you could just watch people gamble. You think people would watch that? I do. Yeah. But then these casinos wouldn't be offering the streamers, which then means the streamers would stop doing that. So, it's like, yeah, I don't know. I I think I mean, the value is definitely in their audience, but uh Yeah. Would you have a price if like a casino comes to you and says you could pay me to do that? No price to break your morals. $50 million a year. I turn down a lot of sponsorships because I just don't align with them. And really? Yeah. And it's like I could use the money, but I don't, you know, I don't feel like I would not use the product. So, if I don't use the product and I don't feel good about the product, I'm not going to promote it. Graham, what's your price? Oh, to Everybody's got a price to do gambling every day, man. [laughter] He does it for free, man. I just love the gam. No, uh, the options. Yeah, I mean, it's a it's a depends. Gosh, I mean, it would it would have to be so much money that like, right, it would probably have to be probably 10 million a month guaranteed for a year. And I would just have the disclaimer like, "Guys, this is stupid." But but I think my audience would respect it enough and be like, "Hey, Graham's getting paid so much money." Like, it would be the financially smart move to take it. So, I would I think my audience would understand and would get that like, "Hey, that that's they're overpaying. It's a lot of money. We get it. Uh, but it would have to be guaranteed for a year and guaranteed that I would not get in trouble because the last thing I'd want is like in legal trouble or then it's not worth it like any risk of any it's no. But assuming I it's fine for one year, one, you know, 100 million bucks, I would do the same as Graham, but I would make sure because I could never lead someone in without a disclaimer, right? So, I would make sure that's somewhere in like the clause or in the contract or whatever, there's a clause where it's like, Jack, you can say whatever you want and it'll be like, "Guys, never do this. Don't touch these casinos, whatever. I'm getting paid bank." Like, that's why I'm doing this, but hey, enjoy. And you got to have like the little, you know, disclaimer that shows on the bottom of the screen that goes by like do not do this at home. Yeah. No, we've turned down so like I'd much rather do that. We've turned down like every NFT offer, every like we turn down a lot of crypto. Oh gosh. I would say 80% of them are just crap. And there's a few that like even get through like we have an initial like we sift through them and it's like 90% just go. Even even the remaining 10% there are a few I'll look into afterwards. I'm just not a fan. I just don't like it. There's a train going by. It's the classic show. Oh gosh, Jack. I thought we moved on from this. There's a train going by and there are two kids playing on the train tracks like a hundred yards in front of the train and there's a really obese person standing in front of you and you're like on this balcony above where the train is going, right? Would you push that obese person in front of the train? They're just obese for the sake of being, you know, stopping the train or whatever. Not to be insensitive, but just to like stop the train. Would you do that to save the lives of the two people that are on the tracks? So, it's one life for two. See, that's a utilitarian moral question. A utilitarian would say, "Yeah, push push that person." Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So, what would I do? Yeah. Gosh, that's so hard. What would you do? I think we answer I think I answered this. Yeah, you answer first. I'll tell you my answer. Why do they have to be obese, Jack? That No, that was just for this. Okay, never mind. I take it back. They're not obese. Okay, they're a person. They're [laughter] they're just a normal person. Yes. Normal. They are a a human of that is average. The train has a sensor that detects people once they're [laughter] hit and they're just a regular person. And if you push this person over, the sensors will go off and stop the train. It could be. Yeah. It's no different than like a Saw movie. Like would you would you I would push them. You would push them. One for two. I I think I said I wouldn't because I would not push them. Yeah. Because the the the train track, they're on the train tracks. They shouldn't have been on the train tracks. And [laughter] you got to think risky behavior. You got to think about it. They're playing on the train track. They shouldn't have been doing that. It's tragic, but I couldn't. So, who So, like an innocent life, I couldn't do that. The other the other two were on the train tracks, so they they I guess I was trying to think of it more in like a vacuum like they're there. Let's say they were tied down on the train track. Yes. [laughter] Oh gosh. Now they're forced against their will to be there. Then would you push this normal? Not sorry, not normal, just like an average person. Comment below what you would do. I wouldn't I well it sucks because I wouldn't want to be the cause of that person's uh demise, you know? So it's like the other person uh you know demised the the the two people on the train tracks tied down. Like that's their responsibility. But mine would be the unaliving of a of a innocent person. What if the person was like a serial killer? I would push him. Okay. Yeah. I probably couldn't do it. Like I' I don't know if I would even like to say I could, but I feel like I couldn't live with myself if I actually was responsible for the of someone else, you know? It's a really tough question. So yeah, we don't say the D word. Oh, sorry. Unlive unaliveness of another person. The demise. Yeah. So anyway, what do you think about uh anyway? [laughter] No, no, no, no. Really quick, let's talk about I want to know your thoughts on the Tik Tok finance gurus aspect because I think Tik Tok has maybe not the best uh reputation for for some people pumping stuff or maybe not giving the best advice and from what I've seen, there's both a lot of good advice, but there's a lot of really bad advice. And what are your thoughts on the stigma of Tik Tok finance? I think the stigma is there for a reason. There's probably more bad actors than there are good actors. Obviously, if I if I see something that doesn't really resonate with me and I think it's bad advice, I just ignore it. Yeah. You know, I let them do whatever they're doing. I'm not going to like come for them in the comments, but I would not recommend that channel to anybody learning financial advice. And so, yeah, there's going to be good and bad with everything, just like with YouTube. Like, there's going to be some people on YouTube that are bad actors and trying to get you to buy whatever the hell that they're they're buying or selling. Yeah. So, I do think that it's gotten a a pretty bad stigma, though, because, you know, the the videos that do go viral, sometimes they can be really dumb and they and I just don't feel like that happens on YouTube versus like on TikTok, like some 16-year-old thinks that they can make $50,000 flipping, you know, crypto in 24 hours by just getting 1% a day or something like that, you know, something something silly like that. And that could go viral. That could get like 2 million views because people watch it and like they rewatch it. So I remember when Tik Tok banned cryptocurrency for a while. They did. And that was for like eight months. They banned financial not banned but they shadowbanned like they basically put a like a kind of like a filtration on anything finance related. So if I mentioned the word stock market the video would get no views. Not no views but it would get throttled. And same thing with like bank account or I don't know. And when was that? I want to say summer of last year. So like May to like August or something really. And as a finance creator, how did that affect the content you were making? Uh that was a depressing time. The Tik Tok in the Tik Tok life. I mean every video wasn't doing very well. So I just had to reset my expectations for how how good a video would do. Um I was actually flown down to Tik Tok for like a I guess they just wanted to talk to some creators and I did tell the CEO that like directly. I was like, "Hey, the CEO of Tik Tok." Yeah. He's like, "Hey, you guys got some bad filtration going on, bad moderation." And it's because Tik Tok has a development team in China, and they're all Chinese, all the Tik Tok developers that are working on the algorithm for the US product. So what happens is is the US team will give them feedback, but that feedback might get lost in translation. Like imagine telling a developer, hey, filter out finance content. What is a developer going to do if they don't know much about finance content? they're just going to take the keywords and just filter them all versus like contextually it could be good advice or bad advice, you know, you never know. And so there's a big disconnect in the teams. And so I think that remote time, that remote work is is tough. And then there's also a language barrier. So like the developers have to figure out how to do that. Now, I saw a video, I'm not sure if it's uh, you know, hocus pocus, but I watched a video on the algorithm of Tik Tok and how the US is a lot different than what it is in China. And I heard in China they're showing very uplifting videos that are very motivational, that are very educational, and that uh in my opinion make them just overall better, more well-rounded people. Versus in the US, I scroll TikTok and I see the most mind-numbing content that just dissolves the brain. It's just so bad and just puts you into this days of you zone out and then an hour goes by and you're just dumb. I hate to say it, like dance videos or trends or but it it's all really viral content and it's addicting. I mean I'll I'll st like every time I go on TikTok if I'm sitting there like actually scrolling 10 20 minutes and it feel what feels like a minute but they're all mind-numbing videos is is do you know if there's any truth to that? What do you think on this? I don't know if there's any truth to that but it could be also a difference in cultural values, right? like the culture over there, they might value that type of stuff versus what what do we value in the United States? It's tough to say. I don't know if Tik Tok is doing something crazy with their algorithm in different countries or it's used as a weapon to make us dumber or something like that. But I'd like to think that I always like to think on the optimistic side. So like I give people the benefit benefit of the doubt, even companies sometimes. And I think uh sometimes to a fault, but I give people the benefit of the doubt and I think that probably the algorithm is just optimizing for view duration, right? Because that's all they want to do is keep you on the platform. I think when you said values, it's very true. And I think uh the algorithm is probably so good that it just gets whatever gets the most uh watch time, clicks, uh engagement, and that just happens in the US to be the content that, you know, is mind-numbing. Is mind-numbing. Yeah. Think about it. Everyone just wants to zone out. Like if you go on Tik Tok probably and I would say the same thing with YouTube, probably not as much with YouTube, but a lot of for a lot of people Tik Tok is just a way how could I spend these next five minutes, 10 minutes that turns into an hour because it's just gets you. Yeah, it's quick content and some people really enjoy it. Like I know that we watch it and we're creators and so sometimes we're watching it with a critical eye. But I have friends who just watch it and they're laughing the entire time and they're loving it and they're sending it to their friends and they're making memes and and they have a great time. They don't think it's a waste of time. But some people like like me, I think it's kind of a waste of time to watch it. I'm always like, "Ah, I just watched 20 minutes. It sucks." But at the same time, I don't watch Netflix. And some people think, you know, at the end at the end of the day, they Yeah. So it's like, who am I to judge their entertainment? That's fair, right? That's fair. I agree. It's kind of like the same argument with video games. And I I've had this video game argument before. Like people will come to me like, "Oh, why do you play video games?" But it's like, "It's just entertainment." It's like, "What do I like what does it matter if I choose to play video games or go watch a movie or go read or do something?" And I think there's a a stigma there that video games are not engaging or good for you. But I learned a lot of my social skills through gaming growing up. And I also learned a lot of, you know, typing skills and commerce skills through, you know, trading. No. Trading my Final Fantasy gil and not getting scammed. Like I haven't been scammed on crypto yet. Why? Because of video games. Like [laughter] I'm really wary. I'm like, "Oh, you're trying to scam me." Like I'm not going to fall for this. Like fallen for this before. Hey, if you send me a hundred bucks, I'll send you $200 back. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know what? You know what that sounds like, Graham? What? This is This is going to be way off topic here, but uh when I was younger, I used to play this game called Runescape. Yep. I know exactly what you're talking about. I was going to go there. So, yeah. So there's this there was these people at the marketplace that would stand there and they would be like, "Oh, doubling gold, right?" So, you know, so and then so what I would do is I would go up to them. I'd be like, "Well, I want you to double like let's say 500,000 of my gold, but you have to prove it to me first. So here's like 50k, like some measly amount." And then uh they would do it cuz they think I'm going to give them the the big thing and I would just take their their [laughter] me. So I was scamming scam the scammer. I I scammed the scammer. This is one of my favorite videos that I I was showing this to Jack. This is like two years ago. You know the scammers in the comment section that pretend to be you. I remember that video. Yeah. Uh so for those unaware, I uh I I started talking to three of those scammers and they promised like these Ponzi like returns where if you know I'm going to put money in, they guarantee it's going to be worth a certain amount. And so I put 20 bucks in one to see like how it works. And I told them up front that I said, "Hey, I got like $50,000, but I just want to see like make sure it works first." And so I I gave him 20 bucks and they take you to this like fake web page where where basically they could type in how much money is in your account. Um and then it grew over time to like $36, like 40 bucks. And I said, "Wow, this is great. I just want to make sure the withdrawal works first. Can you send me this money back and then I'll send in like 5,000 or something like that?" [laughter] They legit sent the money back. Like extra money. Extra money. Same thing, but you did it in real life. Yeah. So I sent in $20, they sent back 40. And I think we used your buddy's uh PayPal or Venmo so they wouldn't know it's me. And so your buddy actually got the money and sent it over to me. Amazing. Yeah. Didn't Yeah. Didn't you want to still collect the money? What do you mean? The $20 profit. Yeah. [laughter] Something like that. My buddy got it and then he sent it back over to G. It was my It was my money to begin with. My money to begin with. 20ent ice coffees. Yeah. So, but yeah. Yeah. Reminds me of that. So, you know, as long as you're a step [laughter] kind of bait him with a little bit, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, actually, we uh we never really told this story afterwards. What happened? Um, one of the guys found out about that video after I posted it. The scammer. The scammer. Wow. Not the guy who sent me the money, but another one of the guys. Watched the video afterwards and then actually got in contact with me and we talked. And it was after we talked, I wanted to get him on the second channel. And it was a weird thing because I I felt 90% he was telling the truth on this, but he gave depictions of like the working conditions there. He was from, I think, Uganda, I think it was, and just the working conditions are really terrible. They're trying to support their families. There's no money. This is one of the only ways that they could like support their families. And he basically just said like, I don't want to be doing this there. There, you know, it's run by the gangs here. And if we don't do it, they threaten our families and this and that. So this is why we're doing it. Um oh and then he he would only call me during like certain time like he said like you cannot text me at all. Like just call it. He was pretty secretive about it which made me think that he was legit. And then I said if you wanted to come on the second channel and like just expose this uh I'll give all the ad revenue to you and I will uh set up like a I don't know if we could do a gofund me. I don't know something like that. Maybe he was trying to scam you. And that's I worried about that. [laughter] I worried just in case. I felt it was real, but I didn't know if I want to think that. Part of me thought maybe I just do it and let the audience decide if they believe it's fake or real. He never decided to go through with it and decided to hold off, which makes me think it was real cuz he was worried about the safety of his family and like if he gets outed as like that guy, um I don't think it was worth it to him. So, I have a feeling it was real. That's a tough moral situation as well for sure. Yeah. And I couldn't post a video like that. uh if anything were to ever happen to him that like that would be my fault and I couldn't got it do that but overall seemed like a nice guy. [laughter] Okay. So, you know, so behind all of this, you know, behind these people scamming, even though it's annoying, uh the situation there is incredibly different than the I think a lot of people put ourselves as like, well, I wouldn't do that, but meanwhile, you have access to, you know, get a job anywhere and make $20,000 a year versus them. Children that you have to take care of. Yeah. Imagine imagine that, you know, the area is run by gangs, right? you have three kids at home that don't have food and like what's your option? It's not like you could beg or like go work at Starbucks or anything. What do you do? You do that because that's the way to and you know and they rationalize it that you know they're wealthy Americans. They they got health care. They have roads and electricity and running water and you know they could afford it. So I could see that you know I could see what Yeah. So after it gave me a depends on the situation big perspective on just like in America or really in in many first world countries you're very fortunate so and you kind of forget that uh the rest of the world is not like that lesson of the day guys. Love that lesson. You're welcome Jack. Yeah. I think we should also talk about your income over time. Oh boy. I'm sure that'll kind of be an interesting journey. I remember you said you initially started out as a video game customer support person outside of college. Yes. How much were you making doing that? 40k a year. And you did that for how long? A uh a year and a half doing customer support. Year and a half. So 40k a year. This was 2011, 2010, 2011. And this was in the Bay Area. This was in Bay Area. Yeah. How'd you survive on 40k a year in the Bay? Lived at home. Well, [laughter] nothing's changed. That's the thing. In the Bay Area, rent would have been $40,000 a year. Yeah. It would 2500 a month. It was a little It was a little cheaper back then. Like the the whole tech scene hadn't exploded quite yet. Like Facebook really started to explode after 2014, I would say, is when like all the developments started to happen and rent prices started to go crazy. So in 2010, it was still okay. It was still like manageable, but I still didn't want to move out cuz I was only making 40k a year. As a financial adviser, I made like 50k a year. And then a step up. A step up. Yeah. But not by much. And then um even after I was licensed, it it was still 50k a year. And then they wanted me to get clients in and start making more through commissions. So mutual funds, they have they have expense ratios and you know the financial adviser gets paid a percentage of of the mutual funds that you sell. And it's usually just mutual funds like VU or VTI but but wrapped differently with a higher expense ratio that you know someone pays for because they want the service or they want someone to guide them through the market if you will. So is that what most financial adviserss do? They just find other like index funds and then kind of wrap it in a mutual fund type thing and then slap on an expense ratio. But the reason why they can justify doing that is by finding people and presenting them to in a service where you basically you're the financial adviser be the person that takes the action of investing and basically guaranteeing oh you'll be fine for the most part. Right? When I was at Meil Lynch I'm not going to speak for all financial adviserss but I would say at Maril Lynch there was one guy who was doing very well for himself and he says I don't really manage portfolios I manage expectations. M and so he was just on the phone with clients all the time managing their expectations for what the portfolio should return. And that's essentially what they were doing is kind of like picking funds, you know, let's say the lazy three fund portfolio, they would just kind of pick that for a client. Obviously, you want to tailor it to their risk tolerance and their time horizon and all that good stuff. But essentially, that was the investing piece. And then they also offered like planning, so like retirement planning, estate planning, 529 plans, all that sort of thing. So it was like an all-in-one service. But I would say for the most part, if you're just going to a financial adviser to invest, you'd probably be better off doing it yourself with like VU or VTI or a robo adviser like Wealthfront for example, like be just fine. Yeah. Um and that's what you kind of notice with like millennials and maybe even younger is that they're will more willing to do it themselves. But I would say the older generation still likes a financial adviser. I think a lot of it is just calming people down, making sure they don't sell and they keep investing because I would imagine how many how many people in 2020 were like, "We got to sell everything. The market's going down." And then the financial advisor is telling him, "No, don't worry. Don't worry. We got to buy more." What do you mean buy more? I bet it was a lot of just, you know, calming. Stock market just flipped. Yeah. I just saw Graham's video. The stock market's about to reverse. And they got to say, you know, did you watch the end though? He said, "Buy and hold index funds." Oh, I didn't make it that far. I only looked at the title thumbnail. Yeah. Yeah. So, that was that was uh my financial advisory period. And then I the next gaming company I worked at was called Machine Zone. And Machine Zone created that video game called Mobile Strike and Game of War. They used to have these Super Bowl commercials with Arnold Schwarzenegger and like Kate uh Kate Upton, you know, remember those? And uh that was a really wellunded company. But I started off doing quality quality assurance for them. So very similar to customer support. I was making like 16 bucks an hour and then I started doing live ops. So live ops is something very different. It's basically optimizing in-game packages based on the hour to sell the most revenue possible to the gamer at that time and that was paying I think my first salary was 75k a year. So this was now yeah it was a big step up and then six months after that it was like it it got increased to 90 and then six months after that I was making like 120. What exactly were you doing? So imagine like a mobile video game. Do you play Clash of Clans or I did back in high school. Uh Candy Crush, for example. They have those offers that when you first sign in, you can buy a package like an in-game package of items. Sure. And that stuff is not just random. That's all backed by data analytics, by, you know, AB tests, by everything that you can imagine because they want to figure out what's going to get people to spend the most amount of money. M and so every hour to have a real-time chart of the revenue for that company, for that game almost by the minute. So it's almost like looking at your YouTube analytics, like you're seeing how many views per minute are coming in, but instead you see revenue. And so when you're looking at that, you're like, "Okay, right now this this package that I'm running on this game is making this this hour about 100K. Let me try to make a package for the next hour that I'll run at the top of the hour." So like, let's say it's 12 p.m. right now. I'll make a package that starts at 1 pm and I'll try to get people more enticed to buy that second package. At the same time that package is going, you can run an in-game event to really incentivize people to buy that first package or that package that you're showing. Yeah. And then you can look at the data analytics for all the user balances. So like, oh, this user doesn't have enough coal or this user doesn't have like the majority of users don't have enough gem like uh wood, for example, just an in-game item. And so then you can sell them the wood with an event that requires a lot of wood to beat the event, if that makes sense. Wow. So you're using like userenius. That's genius. So you're using user balances the data there. Then you're crafting a package that exactly matches that event. And often times the package would have just enough wood, but not enough wood to finish the event. And that was basically how that company monetized very well. Oh my gosh. And so I could change these packages on an hourly basis. And uh I was doing that for like a year straight, but it was a it was almost a 247 job. How much were they making? At its height, I think we made [sighs and gasps] one game made 110 million in a month. OH MY GOSH. It was about like 3 to 5 million a day. And if it was under three, the CEO at the time would get really pissed. No way. How big was the team? [laughter] The team started out with just me and another guy. Uh well, actually it was me and like two other guys, my boss and like another guy at first. And then it really started to expand. By the time I left, it was a team of like 20. And almost every mobile video game company has a live ops team now. And uh maybe not Clash of Clans. Clash of Clans is in Finland. They do things a little bit differently. They probably just have one or two guys running it. But a lot of the video games now have like massive teams because it makes a big difference in bottom line. But the thing is, you have to manage it 247. So we had like these weird random night shifts. just like I'd have to get up at 4:00 a.m. sometimes to run the events until like 12 and then then I would go into work and then I'd stay there all day and it was a very like uh FaceTime culture like you wanted to spend a lot of time in there. So that was from 2014 to 2016 and that time flew by like that like I don't even remember it like it was so fast. Did that not make you want to get into the uh mobile video game space? No, it didn't really feel like real money. Just like you know like anything you get get kind of numb to it and you kind of don't really put the numbers together. But uh yeah, it was a big I mean it was a big company. It did really well. It was valued at like five to 10 billion at one point. It eventually did come crashing down a little bit and they got bought and they got bought by Apploven. Have you heard of that company? Appven is uh is a mobile game studio and they IPOed like like last year or something like that. Two years ago. My gosh. How much did they get acquired for? They actually got acquired for like I think it was like $700 million. So it was worth 5 to 10 but then like some some macro events happened like they couldn't get the funding to like raise at that valuation then they got acquired for 700 million after everything was going down and the initial investors or all the investors put in 800 million into the company so it was underwater so all my stock was worthless after that really and that hap that happens to a lot of tech companies where they raise so much money to scale as quickly as possible but if they don't get acquired for above what they raise for then all the common stockholders ers, aka the employees, they get wiped out. Yeah. Because they got to pay back everyone else but capital. Yeah. They pay off the debt the debt first. They pay off the seat team to like transition the company. Wow. They don't actually pay, you know, the a lot of the common stockholders don't get anything. You still work there. And and in that case, they gave the people that still worked there the new shares of AppLin. So, they did pretty well actually. Oh my gosh. What do you think led to their downfall? There were a few things. I think they pushed really too hard on monetization. Like it was a team that was really incentivized to make a lot of money. And so if they weren't hitting their revenue targets based on the investors, you know, expectations, the team would push harder and like basically you can inflate a game. What that means is like if you keep pumping resources into a game like if I just make two trillion wood in that wood example, then wood becomes valueless, right? Just like anything. So, you have to balance in-game economics with what you're selling. And if like you're just pumping the because you want to sell more, you just pump, right? You can give crazy deals. Yeah. You can give crazy deals. Yeah. And then there was one exploit or exploit where like users could switch their app country to like I was gone at this point, but users could switch their app country to like Egypt or something and get a $100 pack for like 15 bucks. And it was known as like the bug sale or something like that. Like it looked like a bug, so like people were buying it. Wow. But essentially like it was a team with like bad I guess incentives to try to hit revenue and then that bug occurred and they kept pushing it because they thought it was making them revenue but it was just eroding the game. Oh my god. And [snorts] so eventually that game kind of like slowly falls off. A typical mobile strike mobile or game of war [clears throat] those typical those typical games have like a three to five year life cycle. So after like Yeah. I I think this also circles back to ethics. Like did it ever feel weird to make events that oh like you don't have enough resources so you got to buy more or you know because at that point are are you losing the vision of the game you know to provide entertainment? Yeah, I think so. I mean, the games weren't really designed to be, in my opinion, fun. Like, I didn't really have a great time playing them, but they they attracted a really hardcore user base that was not afraid to spend money. Whales. And whales make up most of the revenue of any mobile game, right? Just like at a casino, the top 1% probably makes up their entire revenue. Why does whales spend so much money? Uh, there's just like a certain cohort of person. So, like if you acquire 100 paid users, like they're going to pay in the game. Like the top one or two% will spend the most. like they'll make up your entire revenue stack. So like it's kind of like the 8020 rule like 80% of the profits come from 20% of the people. It was like that of whales. Like there was one whale. It's like the son of like some sort of like Dubai billionaire or something like that. I thought you meant people from Wales. No. I thought you meant people. Jack. Jack is so adorable. Jack was like, "Wow, those from Wales." That was a Jack. That was a Jack moment. Right over my head. Wow. That was like quintessential Jack. Oh my god. Holy cow. [laughter] Jack in the future. I I wouldn't admit that. I just roll with the punches. I had to, man. Why do you have to? You didn't have to. Well, I'm Welsh, so that's why there I'm like super explain why you're spending so much money on the [laughter] spend so much mobile games. So, there was a son or a daughter of a billionaire in Dubai and she basically spent like $3 million in the game [laughter] and she was the biggest whale. She just had so much money. I forget what her name was. But then there was also another really rich billionaire or something in Dubai at and you could track their locations if they allowed it in the app. And this guy would only be at beach clubs in the Mediterranean Sea and just like buying these $100 packs all day. And he spent like a million dollars, too. At that point, can you reach out to them personally and and invite them and be like, "Hey, like they wanted to. They're like, "This guy's great. Like he's literally saving our Yeah. They spent the I would do that. I'd fly them out like give them give them as much wood as they want [laughter] to from that. You spend a million dollars you get unlimited everything in the game. Like it becomes no longer a challenge anymore. The best player in the game. Yeah. Yeah. It was a pay to win game. I mean I mean there are some games that are not pay to win. For example, League of Legends like you just get skins like you need skill. And there are games that where you just spend as much money and you become the most powerful being in the planet. I wonder what she's thinking now though especially after the game's like fallen out of relements. Yeah. You get bored of it. [laughter] I'm sure she has so much money they Okay, that's a fair point. Oh my gosh. 3 million probably running. Yeah, [laughter] family business. She made all it back. Stay. Uh yeah, so that was my income trajectory. I made 140K my last year there. And then after that I started my own business. And then those two years I probably made 65k each. And then uh maybe 50k in 2020. But then in, you know, in 2021 with YouTube and stuff that that grew a lot. So what are we talking? I would say like 200. 2002. Yeah. 200 maybe. Like if you add in my investment income, it was probably a little bit more, but yeah, I feel like I could make way more money if I just did more sponsors. That's something I'm kind of thinking of tinkering with this year is like adding in the right sponsors. Like I would still do some sponsorships, don't get me wrong here. Like I would do some, but I'm not like for a long time I didn't want to put any YouTube ads in the videos. Yeah. Just like kind of like Andre. Um, and I I think that as long as the reason I'm putting the ads in is like or sorry, as long as the sponsor is the same consistent one over time, I'm okay with that. I just don't want to send the wrong message where I'm like sponsored by Robin Hood one day, Fidelity the next, you know, Schwab the third day. And well, that's why they have uh the clauses in there that says you're exclusive in that category, right? You talked to me about this before this podcast, but you were talking about how it is to be single, you know? Yes, I am single. Do you think that there's any correlation between living with your father and also being single? Maybe subconsciously. I think subconsciously, yes. I'm uh yeah, I think probably it's in the back of my mind for sure. I'm also pretty picky and I also maybe am I'm not good at dating multiple people at once. So like I always had a hard time like if one person if I was dating one person like trying to find other people to date. And I think what happens is I get really overinvested in that one person. And that's a turnoff, right? Because I'm just like I'm ready to go. I'm like, "Hey, I really like you. Like let's let's hang out all the time." But when you're dating, you kind of want to take it a little bit slower and you really just try to like connect with that person and learn more about them. And I feel like I can't even be myself until like the fourth date. So like a lot of times I don't even get to the fourth date. Put it that way. Do you think that it's usually the girls not reaching out back to you for the second date or they're ghosting you? Or is it you being too picky? So like which side of the uh It's probably both. Yeah. I've had many my fair share of like people that don't reach out after the second date. I think the issue is that it takes you four dates to open up. I think it takes even three. Even two is too much. You need to be pretty open on the first date, I think. and and a cure to that. Yeah. I just be well not like nervous or not like you know or or not like uh putting on a bit more of like a like a facade. Not a facade. I don't know. But but you know guard up yeah your guard up going into it just like hey this is me. And I think the cure to that is going on a lot of dates back to back to back. So in you know what like like you did 30 Tik Toks in 30 days 30 30 [laughter] days 30 days in 30 days or even even five a week Monday through Friday every night and just say you know I'm going to go out to dinner every night. I'd like that and just be expensive first date. [laughter] Yeah. But but here's the but here's the thing. They'll be I mean I I don't know how you coordinate that realistically, but but you'll get a a sense very quickly what you're looking for and you'll be the the picky one because you'll know like oh I don't like when you know people who do this and I prefer this and I I like that. You'll know so fast that you know after the 10th one it'll just be like ah I got to do another one of these and then you're yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I think for me like even on this podcast I don't really feel 100% authentic. No offense, not because of you guys, but because the cameras are on and stuff like that. Like even on my own channel, it's like really hard to like for me to show the real my real self, the personality a little bit sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I like especially on a date, you know? I'm like I'm trying to be as positive as I can be. I'm like pretty optimistic, but it really takes a long time to get to know. I don't think you need to be positive. I think you just embrace however you feel. You're having a bad day. I'm having a bad day. Got a headache right now, but [laughter] here I am. Yeah. My steak's undercooked, but uh you know, I'm not video. [laughter] That's something I would say though. Like, hey, like, I'm really sorry. 10 out of 10. I mean, I do. You're not single then, man. I know. Well, Macy Macy knows [laughter] that. She knows. If I walk in, she's like, "Was it a 10?" I'm like, "Yeah, I was a 10 today." She's like, "Is there anything I could do?" I'm like, "No." Yeah. I did title thumbnail. I tried. You can do to solve the way I'm feeling right now. No, there's nothing nothing you could do. It's ruined. [laughter] Ruined all of it. No, no, I'm kidding. Yeah. All right. I'll try I'll try that next time. And one thing that's helped me out with my confidence a little bit at least is the abundance mentality. So like I find myself the more dates I go on, even if I'm not having a great time or I don't mesh very well with the person, I'm like, "Okay, you know what? I've been on let's say three dates in the past 3 weeks, that's an abundance, right? And it definitely helps at my confidence, which helps my personality shine through a little bit more, but I have the same issue that you do. It's really hard to act yourself with someone that you're it's kind of like performative, right? You kind of have to be like the perfect person. So, well, it's like stage fight. It's like stage fight. You just you get it over with and then the more experience you have, the less anxious you feel. Yeah. So, yeah, that's where I'm at with that. Yeah. Are you what? Tinder, Bumble, Hinge, what? Uh, I had Hinge for a while. I've kind of like stopped it just cuz it it was giving me more anxiety than like having it on, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like I was always like nervous about it or I'd check it too much. I get kind of distracted. Do you ever get people like recognizing you and they'd be like, "Whoa, I got my stock advice for you." Yes, that does happen. That does happen. I think that actually led to me getting like a video date once during the pandemic, but then she got on the date and she was just like, "Tell me about being a Tik Tocker." Like, I just wanted to match with you to go about Tik Tok. That would upset me. Yeah, I know. She had a King Charles Cavalere, too. I was so excited. I was already thinking about my future with them, but you know. Oh my god. Just kidding. But but yeah, but so yeah, that does happen. Um Yeah. But I think it's still a net net positive thing like Yeah. It's like reputable and people will Google you and you're like, "Okay." Like he's like a normal human being and they can see what you look like on video. So like it's it's helpful. Yeah. I don't think it's a downside thing, but No. No. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. That and that same stuff happens to me. There was this girl that I've been DMing with for a while now, probably like two weeks, and it was actually pretty lengthy messages, and she her Instagram profile was private, but she did have a gallery, right? Like a link in her bio. And I tapped it and she's a model. And I was like looking at all her photos and everything like, "Dang, this girl's very pretty." And we were talking a lot, right? Like a lot. And then uh I finally send the follow request and she accepts it. Second photo down. It's like her and her boyfriend. [laughter] She's talking about how much he she loves him and I'm like, "We've been talking for like a while." Now, in fairness, was she talking like in a flirtatious way? Wow. Do you tell the boyfriend this? I mean, I'm just going to You got to leave. I'm I'm gone. That's interesting. So sometimes that happens. You know what I mean? Or you're just too good-looking. I don't know. Well, I don't think she was in it for that, but Okay. But yeah, and you're shady. I know. Shady, man. Crazy stuff out there. Do you have people reach out to you because you work with Graham, for example? All the time. Yeah. Well, actually, I wouldn't say all the time, but a decent amount where people will be like, "Hey, man. I got this question. Can Graham answer this question or whatever?" I'm I mean I mean women. Do women reach out to you to date because they're like, "Oh, Graham." I've had people reach out to me for Jack. Yeah. All right. But I don't Yeah, I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but uh that's funny. Not the best options. Oh, are you talking about Graham posted on his Instagram one time he wanted me to go on a date with someone uh and we didn't specify the gender and [laughter] Okay, so no, that's I wasn't even talking about that, but you go ahead. I was saying something else. Yeah, he posted on his Instagram because we had this idea to bring a first date on the podcast and we could talk to this person, right? This girl idea. I remember you had like the the episode where he had like three women blindfolded or he was blindfolded. Oh, this is way before that. This is the first one. We just started the podcast and our one idea was Yeah. Let's get Yeah. We wanted to do get Jack a Tinder date on the podcast. Got it. Uh but we felt on Tinder it's we Jack wasn't having good luck getting someone from Tinder on the podcast like going over to a stranger's house on as well. Yeah. How old are you, Jack? 23. Oh, you're young. But I posted on Instagram and I I I think I showed a picture of you like you like looking for a date. And turns out he got a lot of swipes swipes ups, right? A lot. Like it was probably up for 15 or so minutes and he maybe got 20 or so swipe ups. All dudes, not a single girl. So he didn't specify in posting [laughter] if I'm looking for women, but I I was and I still am. [laughter] So noted. He just took it down and now we took it down. Imagine like it didn't happen, took it [laughter] out. I like that. Yeah. No, the other one was uh someone who became very persistent uh wanted to to go on a date with Jack and messaged me and said she she messaged Jack and Jack wasn't getting back to her. So, she messaged me and then I brought her up to Jack and I looked and I said, "Jack, she seems kind of normal and uh you might want to, you know, reach out." And Jack was like, "No, I'll do it. I'll do it." Jack never reached out, but it was just the incessant just like, "Hey, what's going on? What's going like like just the follow-ups got too much like a followup a week later like fine but when it was like she multiple I don't even know who's multiple follow-ups and then I'm like wow if she's if she's sending me messages and I'm not responding and she sent me like five or six in a few days like that's too much like all right Jack dodged a bullet there okay too much it seems like you've got a lot of options out here too Vegas working on it place yeah cool yeah I'm I'm rethinking this whole thing now with Jack, I'm thinking it's better he's single cuz there more time to work. His focus is going to be uh but he just plays ping pong. Yeah. I'm not the type like Graham I think is a type where he finds someone, he invests himself all the way in it. I'm very much not that person. I don't fall in love quickly. I find someone and I like them and then we become friends first and we're friends for a while. But I also don't really want to spend like so much time with this person. Like my last girlfriend, I probably hung out with her three two to two times a week maybe. I think that's And that was like your girlfriend, but that was high school. No, that was college. That was college. Yeah, that was like three months of high school and then two Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, one thing you brought up before this podcast was that you have a chunk of change you're sitting on. Here's how you're investing with it. Yeah. So, I have enough for a down payment on a house in the Bay. Cool. and that's just sitting in cash. And I, you know, I have a good chunk invested in the market as well. That's just kind of I'm still DCAing into that. [snorts] But I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should buy an investment property. I don't know if I should buy a single family home to live in myself. You know, I still live at my dad's house. Or should I just go rent somewhere in this in San Francisco and just try to continue to build my income with YouTube and Tik Tok and all that stuff. Kind of just holding because I don't really know what's going to happen to the economy. And I think we'll know a lot more in 6 months, especially with uh you know, you know how like the first inflation report in November of 2021 was like 6% or something. I I think in November of 2022, we'll have that one year data of like, okay, how has inflation been for the past from 2021 to 2022 when it really started to ramp up and that's when I think we'll we'll know a lot more about interest rates, inflation, the economy, what's going to happen. Interesting. So, why? So, are you set on moving out? You going to move out either way? I think so. I think so. This summer, 100%. Yes. Okay. I would say it's probably better for you to rent than buy something up there. I think when you look at the values in the Bay Area, renting almost always makes more sense, unless you're buying and and planning to keep this house for the rest of your life. It's probably in the short term, renting is better. Also gives you a lot more mobility. Yeah. saddled with a house that you're going to have to rent out that probably is not going to cash flow. So, I'd say you're better off renting. Yep. Good mobility. U and plus your income's going to fluctuate so much for these next like 5 10 years. Yeah, I'd rent. Um as far as the rest of the money, do you want to be a landlord? Not really. No, I know you're a landlord. How do you like it? You're a property manager. It was great in the beginning. Now, yeah, I have property manager. If I could, I mean, I don't want to say if I could snap my fingers and just be done with it all, but right now at this point in time, I want nothing to do and just like my my brain, my capacity is filled. And so like anything at this point now I'm have to like and now I forget things just because I have no more space. So like something is forgotten. Um but yeah, the properties in comparison to everything else right now, they make very little in terms of the percentage, right? So it's just it's a mental drain, but they're all rented thankfully. And you know, it's good enough on autopilot. Yeah. But just thinking like uh you know, I'm I'm making sure the property taxes are due and if I get a notice in the mail about like insurance coming like I'm the one who deals with deal with it. Those little things that add up. Little things that add up. Uh so actually the one I've enjoyed so far was uh I invested in a syndicate with Brandon Turner and uh in a mobile home park and he takes care of everything. Oh, that's good. And I loved that because it's like a stock that you know he's doing all the work and I just it's kind of like a REIT in essence but uh you know it's a syndicate where I'm involved uh at least on the investor side. I've liked that so far. I mean I wouldn't dump everything into that but um you know I I value simplicity so much right now and that's why I've just like the index funds and that's why I say for you at this point in time when you're so busy at least with index funds it's so you don't have to do anything. Yeah, you don't have to you don't have to stress if the market goes down. It's an index fund. It's like the whole market goes down. It's not just you. Like you're not doing anything wrong. That's what I like about index funds. Yeah. The other thing I want to bring up was that my chunk of change can buy a very crappy place in the Bay Area, right? It can buy like a condo, you know, a one-bedroom little mini thing that I would never live in for like the rest of my life. I live in in it for like a year maybe, but or it's going to be a big fixer upper, right? Like it's really tough. How much How much cash we talking about here? Uh like half a mill. Oh, yeah. I would say just dollar dollar cost average. Yeah, dollar cost. Yeah, I would say I have $100,000 in cash at all times just sitting in a high yield saving and then the other 400 that's just dollar cost average. Okay, thanks. So simple. I'd rent good mobility rent. Yeah. Yeah, most likely there's no sense in you buying something like that. Um I would say when you're ready to settle down uh you know maybe have a family or something like that and you know where you want to live and you're like this is where I want to live for that 15 years, then buy. Okay. Okay. But until then, yeah, I think mobility, fair important. Fair enough. What about you, Jack? What do you think for you? Yeah. Do you agree with Graham's comments? Yeah, I agree with Graham. I think you shouldn't be totally closed off the idea of being a landlord, but also I wouldn't consider buying too much right now. So, I think right, yeah, I would say just dollar cost averaging into an index fund would probably just be the most ideal thing. But also when you are sitting on that cash that is invested always, you know, if you are considering being a landlord, just like studying some deals and whatnot. When did you close on your house, Jack? October 11th. October 11th, 2021 last year. Kind of interesting. That was almost near the peak of the market. Your house is a your house is a Libra. The market has still gone up. So I bought my house just under $600,000 and the Zestimate Oh, no. [laughter] says it's like I don't know 670 or 68. accurate not accurate. But I'm just But I'm just saying it's it's odd, you know, because the stock market peaked in November of 2021. So it's kind of weird that Jack buys and then 30 days later the market peaks. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Hey, you know, then when he sold Robin Hood, it pops [laughter] the next like an hour later. So is he the counter trader? Is that what you're trying to say? Or Yeah. Are you saying I should just empty everything into the stock market right now [laughter] if you want it to crash? If I want the world to end. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, wait. Empty? You mean like sell off all your invest or empty? Like put all of my money, all of my cash now in the stock market. In the stock market, it's going to crash. Yeah. Please don't joke. But if you if you pull out all your money out of the stock market, it'll go up. Yeah. Well, we'll see [laughter] what happens with that. Yeah. We tested the Robin Hood theory. I've been wanting to test this for the longest time and it proved to be true. Part of me wants to see like Jack has to invest like a ser he can't just like, you know, here's a hundred bucks. Like it's got to be a considerable amount of money. I already lost so much money on Robin [laughter] Hood, man. It's like that was my contribution. Okay, that was the case study. Jack, how about this? Can we do a test? I think this would be really fun. Uh, we'll probably have to do a midweek. We'll probably have to do midweek. I want I I'd say you invest $10,000 into and we'll just do a one month or like, you know, one week or something like that. $10,000 into something and then we track it the next week just to see if it's up or down from the day you bought it. And we're going to put the theory to that. you know, 10 grand. So, chances are in a week plus or minus 10%. I mean, the very most and that's like gen that would be a crazy week. You don't know that, man. It could be 40% for all I know. Man, I have a question for a Graham. Yeah. What's your five 10 year plan here? No clue. I know I want your podcast. Um, one year plan is to continue at the same trajectory as I have been. So, three main channels a week or three main videos on on the main [clears throat] channel. We've talked about this before, but my original goal was to go down to two videos a week on the main channel and I became I was so used to doing three and I was like, "Oh yeah, eventually I go down two, but then but then every week I did three." I'm like, "Yeah, I got an extra video out today and got an extra video out today." Feels good. Yeah. And so I I want to now continue that throughout this year because now everything for me is like, "Oh, it's a bonus and an extra video and I'm still doing it." Um I want to continue because I know building up this I would I would not be able to build up the momentum again. I think I've worked so hard to build up that that stamina for three videos a week. As soon as I go down to two, I'm never going to be able to get to the gym, right? What do you think about the future? Do you think the podcast could be a really scalable format for you 5 years down the line? Yeah, I would one day I could see myself putting like 80% of the effort in the podcast and treating the podcast as I did the main channel. Like not that I don't treat the podcast uh you know well, but it's just my my focus has always been main channel first before anything like that was that's still my my biggest focus is that everything else is secondary to to that main channel. But at some point I could see that switching. I don't know when. Um but I'm getting better now. If I I think there's been maybe two two times this year where I've uh not posted and on the main on the main channel I think in terms of like three times a And I think it's easy for me. Like before I'd have panic attacks like an episode. It was like I would I wouldn't miss an episode. I know how that feels. Yeah. So I wouldn't uh but there was you know what it was on a holiday. I remember this. It was on a Labor Day. Labor Day. I didn't post that day even though I had a video ready because it was a holiday. And just the amount of nerves I have being like, "Oh my gosh, I I post on Friday. My next video is not going to post until Wednesday. What is it? I freaked out and so I never missed a video. So, uh, but yeah, I missed two and I didn't feel bad about it. So, it I'm moving in that direction, but I'm still, you know, I want to post my three. Okay, I like that. Jack, what do you think of his plan? I think it's a fantastic plan. I think you should go all in on the podcast. Uh, no, I like his plan a lot. I think it makes sense. One thing that is a little concerning is when he says, "Oh, I'll never be able to go back up to three." And when he does describe things as like for things such as forgetting certain things because he feels like his [clears throat] his brain's capacity is already full. That sounds like burnout to me like very clearly. And I'm worried that you are still sprinting and it's just straight into a wall. Well, no. So, what happened is that I've taken on too many obligations. I've I've said yes. Yeah. I've said yes to every opport not every opportunity. I've said yes to almost every opportunity that's good. And these are great opportunities and I've said yes to them because I'm like I'd be stupid to turn this down and like I don't know how long this is going to last for this opportunity is here. I'm gonna take it like Creator Properties with Ryan Pedo. Correct. Um I mean there's been a whole bunch of them. They're all good. Um but I think mentally I have space for like three even though 10 of them are like home runs but like I could focus mentally on so many things and there's like three of them. So I think I said yes to too many things and that really affected me. So, like I've been slowly working on scaling back. Um, I've been slowly cutting things, not because they're bad, but just because like mentally I just Yeah. low ROI. No, not even. It's just it's more of just a mental drain. Like some of these things are really high ROI. Yeah. I think the brain only has a finite amount of space, right? So like if you're if you're thinking about ROI on a in a vacuum, yeah, you know, the mentorship group probably makes you x amount of dollars. But if it's taking up that mental space, that mental space can't be used for something else. Yeah. And it's higher because I do look at every hour of my day. I'm like, this hour is worth that this amount of money. And I calculate that like everything I do per hour that that is the opportunity cost. So if I go and have a coffee with someone in the afternoon, that's a very expensive coffee. So, like I got to prioritize everything else. And like if I take an hour off, it's not just that hour. It takes me three hours to get back. I know exactly how you It's uh Yeah, even I forget what it was. Um and I've started looking at this. If if I answer a text, even though that text might be just a simple thing, then I'm waiting for that person to respond back to that text. I'm keeping an eye on it. It like takes my focus away even just a little bit. And that little bit of focus, it takes me 30 minutes to get back to where I was. in that like zone. Uh the zone is to get in for the flow state. The flow state when I'm in the flow state for like four hours, five hours of the day during certain hours and anything that takes away from that I just I can't do it. So that's why what are you doing flow state scripting or planning? Planning. Yeah. And then I can only film before 9:00 p.m. because after 9 I get tired. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. And it doesn't it's not as energetic and not as fun. So of certain filming times, certain planning times. So yeah, I'm the same way. I got to film like usually afternoon. That's when I film like between 12:00 and 3. Like that's when I'm the most energetic. Yeah. I film my best filming times are usually 4 to 8:00 p.m. Ah, right now. Evenings. Yeah, it's right now. Yeah, it's right now at 7. Early mornings, it's too like I I feel groggy. My eyes just like So, okay, fair. Well, I think it's a good I think it's a cool plan. Yeah, I would love to see you guys do more more podcast stuff like or just double down on podcast stuff. Yeah, I think there's only so much we could do on the podcast because you don't you can't oversaturate. Um, so right now, oh, we just started doing this this so when this posts this, we will already be doing this, but we're going to twice a week on the podcast. So, once once every Sunday and then once every Wednesday. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So, I don't know if we could do more than that realistically without like over without overdoing it. So, I I'd say I guess you would focus on like higher quality people. Guess I think so. So, I think getting celebrities or something. Yeah, we we definitely want to grow the roster of guests. We would love to get into like TV actors. Yeah. Mainstream. Taylor Swift. If you're watching, Taylor, come on the podcast. It's interesting though, the downside with a lot of those people though is that they have PR teams and they're so strict. They they don't want them going on. It's a liability. They come on the iced coffee hour, they talk about something, it's like, "Hey, that's bad." Uh, gets them in trouble. M so uh yeah it's it's a lot more easy to get someone on um YouTube to come on and talk about what are the repercussions nothing. Yeah. So okay but yeah that's our goal. So if you're watching this by the way and you have any recommendations or you have a connection to someone who you think would be amazing on the ice coffee hour uh we'll link to all the information down below in the description where you could either submit an application or uh yeah make the connection. We would love that. I think you should do like professional golfers man. There's so many that live in Las Vegas because of that TPC that's over here and they make a lot of money. As we're getting like deeper into this, we're starting to realize more it's like not as easy as just getting a cool guest on. they had to fit this like this mold of just like what will do well and what comes across on camera because especially with with I don't want to say a lot of athletes but you know they're really good at that sport but when you put them in front of a camera speaking it's just you you really have to like pull information out or it's it's you know you want it to be exciting. I think some of the best guests that we've had uh Houston uh he runs Royalty Exotics. You put him in front of a camera. Oh my gosh, he lights up. Like he's more talkative and like tells better stories on camera. Uh he's so good. And then um Brandon Turner. Brandon Turner is another great example. And Alex Ramoszi. Those are people you put them in front of a camera and they just bloom. And it's it's so good. Like we don't even need to talk. I That's what I love about Alex Ramoszi. He just like he just talks. I be like go. Great stuff. [laughter] Yeah, that was a really great episode. Yeah. Uh Houston's the same way. You just talk and he'll he'll do the entire podcast himself. It's so good. Listen. We just We listen. We just listen. Yeah. I guess I could talk more. And then we then it's always Jack be like, "Wait, what do you say?" Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. This is Jack. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Get at least one of those in every And then it's me. How much was it? Oh my gosh. [laughter] Oh my gosh. Do you want me to bring up uh a story? Sure. We'd love to go. The first time I was on the Graham Stefen show. Yeah. Which was when I called in on TikTok. I was actually a little bit disappointed after. I felt a little sad because I felt like I looked up to Graham for so long and you know I finally got on the podcast and I felt like the call was pretty short and just for the video and then like we didn't get to chat after and I felt like we can maybe talk about this because this is it probably was a parasocial relationship on my side, right? But I felt like, you know, this is the guy I looked up to for so long and he was very short with me. Not that you were short with me, but like you were just doing it for the for the show and then boom, hang up. Right. And you know, I was just starting to make YouTube videos and I at that moment I remember being like so disheartened and like so sad. Oh man. Okay. So I wanted to bring that up and confront Graph. I'm glad you did that. But also but also to let you know that now I don't think that you meant any harm by that and I know you a little bit more personally now, especially after we met at that carrot event and I felt like oh like this is Yeah, he's totally normal. It was just like he's busy and like his time is worth is valuable. So like I could see why. Did we not? Yeah. Did we not talk at Because usually after every call there's like a few minutes afterwards. Do we not? No. No, we didn't. We didn't. No, you didn't do that usually. Yeah. No, you would just say you It'd be before the call a little bit. Oh, that was it was like a minute. You know what it was? Jack would line up three to four calls at a time and we would do them 9, 9:20, 9:40, 10 and we had to set these strict deadlines uh because otherwise um cuz we had scheduled calls with these people. Yeah. Yeah. That was the difficult part with those calls is because sometimes if we would run over on one, the other person would be unavailable on the next one, right? And so if they went over a certain time, we missed the next one which then pushed the next one back. And pretty soon we're on like the third call. I'm texting Jack, "Hey man, we got to move it to like 100 p.m. You guys did text me and say, hey, I'll be like 10 minutes late." I remember being like, "Okay, that's that's fine." So that's probably what happened. I'm just letting you know. That's okay, man. And I told all my friends about it and I was like, "Hey, Graham, wasn't that nice to me?" I never considered that that people could develop, like you said, parasocial relationships with Graham, these calls. Never thought of a nice coffee hour. Yeah. We just figured they just wanted to call in and ask questions. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think maybe as like a creator, you know, especially one on TikTok and like didn't really find my footing on YouTube yet. Like that's really I was like hoping for a little bit of like mentorship or like hey, you should try this or you know like you'll run into this problem and like just avoid this and so but that was then. Got it. Sorry. Yeah, I remember back then. Yeah. Scheduling them back toback was difficult. It's like that's what made it where you had to like end at a certain time and immediately afterwards we'd call another person. Were you there in person, Jack? Cuz you were. Yes. Cuz some of these you you were there. Yeah. And Jack would be like looking at the time and texting the next person. We're going to be 5 minutes late. Uh and then texting the person after that being like, "Hey, we're going to be this time." I think you were texting me probably. For context, on the Graham Stefen show, in the beginning, some of the first style of videos that we did was people would call in, Graham would provide financial for entertainment purposes only. And they weren't paying for it. That was a big thing to for these people and he would just talk them through whatever financial or relationship sometimes problems that they had and we'd post those. And you were someone that called in a very long time ago. Very true. And I just want to say like now being on a creator on on the creator side, we get a lot of requests. It's like the DMs are full all day with a bunch of questions and I try to get to as many as I can, but now I kind of know like maybe where you were coming from. It totally makes sense. Like Yeah. Any other, you know, issues you have with Graham? Yeah. Bring We may as well bring out all the issues. No, the coffee was actually very good. Okay. It was very good. You got to say now for sale at bankroll coffee.com. Yes. How is that doing? Is that still not doing okay? I mean, we're not doing it for We're not doing it for money. I mean, at this at this point, like at the very beginning, prices were significantly lower. They like 25% lower than they are now. Oh my god. Uh yeah. And it's our fault. Like, yes, we could raise prices, but uh you know, and we did a little bit. Like, we had to we raised prices enough to cover our own cost so that we're not a loss. It's doing just fine, but it's not something that we do for money. Does it sell well without you shouting it out? Correct. I mean, does it sell pretty good without you shouting it out? Oh, it does. Yeah, it does. Yeah, it's it's doing if I So, I've don't really shout it out. Um I have it as the banner below below the main channel videos. You have that like YouTube thing. Uh it's there. It does about two to $700 a day. That's great. In sales consistently. Wow. Um we have a 55% returning customer rate, which is really, really, really high. Um and they get a discount too if they do the subscription. So, if I think it's like 15 10 or 15% off if they agree to the subscription shipping like once a week or once a month or whatever. So, a lot of people have done that for the discount. Um, that's great for us, too, because at least we could kind of predict like where the next sales are going to be. But, it's good. And then if I do a shout out like, and I'm talking like a main channel video, we'll do anywhere between 50 and 100 grand of of sales. So, I usually have to give them a heads up and like, hey, I'm doing an update on this. Let's make sure we have enough. Have you noticed like every time you shout something out the efficacy goes down or no? No, but I've only shouted it out like three times or four times in the last two years. So, it's rare. But and usually those videos are more about like, "Hey guys, not making money still." [laughter] Like, it's interesting. I I find it and people love it. The coffee for me, uh, the best thing is the branding cuz everyone is like, "Yo, man, how's Bankro Coffee doing?" No one asked, "Yo, how's your rental properties doing?" Nobody cares. They're, "How's the coffee?" because it's something that anyone could buy at at any price point. They could get it. Well, here's what I was saying about the you know how I asked you the efficacy of the shout out. Well, eventually I don't want to do that many sponsorships because what if one day I want to create a business on top of my YouTube business where every time I shout out I can just get free customer acquisition, right? Do you think it not it doesn't matter so load up the sponsors? Yeah, it doesn't matter because you got to think to every video there's going to be a significant portion of them that have not seen your previous videos and are brand new. And so every time I post a video, you could see just like the new viewers who have never seen me before. It's shocking that when I post a video, it's like I'll say, "What's up, Graham?" It's guys here and they're like, and people are like, "You made a mistake." And I'm like, "I've been saying this for like two years, but they've either not watched the previous videos or they're brand new." And so that's why sometimes like you have to repeat certain topics because you're reaching a new audience that hasn't seen the old ones. Have you noticed your new audience or your new members declining or are they still growing? Like your new audience coming to you growing but not as fast as 2020. Like 2020 I think was this 2020 2021 was an anomaly year. I think January of 21 I gained 180,000 subscribers in one month. And that was new. Uh that was because of GameStop and Dogecoin. Um, and that just brought so many new people into into the investing space now is like we're entering a time of what should be normal. 2020 just like exploded. Yeah. And so just like you see the tech companies going up like 400%. You saw that in the finance channels. What do you think about like dead subs cuz like you definitely have some subs that don't watch you anymore, right? Like they're just inactive. What's your opinion on that? How do you get them back? Is there any way to get them back or they just stop? I don't even focus on that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I would focus on the people that watch the content. And even for me, I subscribe to channels that I saw like 5 years ago and I don't really watch them, but it's the occasional video. Every now and then I'll see, oh, what do they post? Click on it and they'll watch it. Interesting. Very few channels I'll watch every single video. Very few. So, do you worry about the view to subscriber ratio? No, I don't think about it. Okay. No. For finance, it's different than, you know, like Matthew Beam or Mr. Mr. Ryan Trey. Shout out Ryan. finance, I would say having a 10 10 to 15% view to subscriber ratio is really good. Okay. Less than 8% and it's probably bad. I usually aim for about 10%. That's about for me. You feel bad when you put out an evergreen video and it's like a 10 out of 10 for because I know it's so like those are the only tens that are good. Like all right, I don't really care. Yeah. I posted a credit card video and it was so bad. Like it was a 10 out of 10 of like of all the tens that was the 10 if they did that. But that means your next 10 your next nine won't be tens because I agree that I do tell Well, I count some of those as like a nine is still a 10. Yeah, I hear but we'll see what the credit card video is. Um now it is a it's a three. Congrats. So yeah, it's a three. Oh, it's it's a wild to be a two. So you could see just how much it underperformed in the very beginning. Oh yeah, way significantly. Yeah, way below the curve. Uh but but I've gained 3,500 subscribers from that video, which is a lot. Usually I'll post a video and I'll gain that's what I've noticed. 400 to,500 a video. Sometimes 2,000 3500 on this. And yeah, so for my channel, I don't have a lot of those. I mean, I have some evergreens like that, but maybe I should post more of those just to get more of a stable AdSense revenue coming in because I don't really make that much on YouTube. Not a bad idea. Yeah, evergreens are always I would do that. Uh the other stuff the other one that uh was really bad for me was this how to get a perfect credit score for $0. That was a 10 out of 10 and it became a five and it's still gaining about 3,200 views every other day. Search volume mostly probably and that's gained 3,000 subscribers. So for me, the credit card videos, believe it or not, get the most subscribers and high CPM. And high CPM because the people that watch those videos have to search for them. Like they're the ones how to get a credit score. Like that's exactly what they wanted. All right, let's load up the credit card videos on my channel. They do. So, you know, it's been a while since I've done a credit card video. [snorts] How about uh cards for like certain people like Gen Z, millennials? Would you do that to your niche? Yeah, I did a best credit cards for millennials. My worst performing video of the credit cards. So, it's just better to do top five credit cards 2022. Correct. Updated. And it's going to do so bad up front, but I think long term it'll be fine. I would do that. I would do um I loved your Metaverse video, by the way. Thanks. He wrote that. Did you really? Yeah, he wrote most of it. Are you serious? Yeah, it was his first one. It was a banger. I loved it. Yeah. And the title came from Brian Jung because it was very clickbait and I felt really bad about that. And I also, this is something I want to talk about. I don't want to become a stock picker on YouTube. Like that's not how I was taught to invest. And I definitely DCA still into the index funds. And I felt like that video was a poor representation of my channel. Maybe not the first half where I talk about the metaverse, but the second half where we talk about the ETF and the two investments. Oh man, it's it's the equivalent of like the gambling stuff, you know. Yeah. I I had I watched that video, too. I liked it. Okay. Like I think there's an audience for people who want to uh to try their luck and are just looking for a point in the right direction. M I yeah I wouldn't like for me I wouldn't make those videos but I do see the appeal cuz I watch those videos even though I don't buy them I find them pushing them to buy the stock. I was just like if you are interested try this out but still that's I think it's thoughtprovoking I would listen as long as you go in and be like hey listen I'm not doing this I'm buying index funds but if you're interested these are this is a point in the right direction these are the I I thought it was so interesting how they're involved in this and just the development of the metaverse. I loved your video like I I liked it. I saw a lot of other metaverse videos after that and I was like interesting. Yeah. So, Andre mind Yeah. How to be a metaverse millionaire in a year. My plan to be aversal with that. Like I don't care. I would continue. Uh but you had but it's whatever's trending and at the time the metaverse was like really trending. If there's another subject that comes up at some point, I don't see any problems with that as long as you're up front. Okay. Yeah. Thanks. Appreciate that. I still probably will go away from the stock picking thing, but that's fine. Yeah, as long as you say that you are just dollar cost averaging into index funds and stuff, but this is some other stuff you learned on the side, that's fine. But you're also noticing as the stock market's been plummeting, there has been like disproportionately a lot of negative attention going towards those who have suggested in individual stocks, whereas Graham since he's always only shilled index funds is completely fine during this. That makes sense. So yeah, it goes two ways. When everything's going up, I'm the idiot. And when everything's going down, I'm a genius. Yeah. So, okay, fair. Humphrey, thank you so much for coming on.