Meet The Man Who Makes Millions From His iPhone | Doug DeMuro

This is the iced coffee hour. Welcome back. My name is Doug and so far I think it has made $65,000 in ad revenue. That's the first one in a while that's been lower. That was yes. Everyone is funny. Everyone says higher. Higher. Keep going. [laughter] $166,230 Wow, why don't I have a podcast? You got to do it. It's a lot of work, you know. It's not though. It's so much fun. See, this is relaxing to me. We just filmed a main channel video before and the entire time I was panicking because not only do I go in nervous like to meet you because I've watched you since 2014 with those Ferrari videos. I was like nervous going into it but I'm more nervous about like something doesn't work. The audio is going to mess up. The camera is going to mess up. So like this is more casual? Yeah, well because if it messes up it's on Jack. True. [laughter] Very true. It's stressful for me. Your main channel stuff I was just ah it's fine. It'll be okay. So this then I then I get angry at Jack. I'm like well it's Jack's fault. So I can just relax. That is interesting. Man, I should have a podcast. The problem is I got a lot of stuff going on. [laughter] Yeah. But I do think sometimes that I should have done a podcast instead of cars and bids would have made my life a lot easier. But then you got to get guests. Yeah. And you got to talk about stuff. That is a challenging thing. Right. Beginning guest part. Yeah, in the beginning it was very interesting and very easy because everyone was new and it's so simple to call up hey Andre, you want to come on the podcast? Be over in 15 minutes. Jeremy, what do you have to do today? Come on over. So simple. Yeah, I would say the first I would maybe the first like 10 to 15 were I thought simple but then after that you have to really think strategically about like is this a guest that once you build an audience do they do they care about this person? How could it be interesting? How could you spin it? And there's some people that we want to have on. It's just we don't know how to how to integrate that within the existing audience in a way that people want to see it. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And plus probably some people aren't interesting enough for a full podcast I imagine. Like they have a thing they can talk about and that's [laughter] the thing. Not to not to but sometimes yeah like we do cut episodes short or we can put two people in one episode. You know. So tell us for your audience for the audience that isn't familiar with you. I have to say you're one of the few people who I've been so excited to meet. Ah, thank you. I appreciate that. [laughter] Cuz I've been into cars since it was when I saw a Lotus Elise. It was 2005 or 2006. I saw a Lotus Elise for the first time in phantom black and I thought that's the Batman car. Yeah. And I was blown away by and and the owner's son gave me a ride in the car. Drove me home one day and ever since then I've been obsessed. Ah. So and you had a Lotus Elise. Yeah. I had a Lotus Elise. I bought a 2006 chrome orange in San Jose in 2012 12 and drove I lived in Atlanta and I drove it home and it was the worst week of my entire life driving from the Bay Area to Atlanta across the country in that car. Yeah. You can imagine. You know what's weird is that I bought a chrome orange 2006 also in San Jose. No way. You're kidding. I kid you not. That but it was 2009 when I bought mine. [laughter] No way. What a crazy coincidence. I wonder how many there were. I loved that car. It was cool but it was pretty compromised. How did you fit? How tall are you? 6'2? but it wasn't good. Yeah. So like you know you're driving through Kansas and you're like damn. Yeah, you have to be 6'4, right? You're not you're a 6'2. 6'4 and like it was it was tough. It was a tough week that week. Yeah. You obviously you had the top on, right? So getting in this car I had to have the hard top on because that was the only way you know it didn't fit in the car. So yeah, I mean I did the whole trip and my mom joined me. She drove with me from Vegas to Denver where she lives. And like in retrospect I'm like why did that happen? Like she it must have been so miserable for her. What a terrible [laughter] experience. [snorts] But I did it and that was formative. And honestly that was before I did any YouTube. I just did that for fun and it was not fun. And especially cuz there was always a fear it was going to break and I mean it was a disaster that whole thing. But it the car was fine. I mean it was cool. But you know I mean car's pretty fragile. It's you're always a little worried about it. The the shell is like one big piece and if you damage it it's a whole thing and I don't know. It wasn't Yeah, they call it you have the front clam and the back clam. It's like two big pieces. it. It's not like cars that have like panels where if you damage one they replace it. That was like the body. Yeah, there's no bumper. So if you scrape the front of the car you basically have to replace the entire front of the car in one piece. Which happens like often. Like people get in minor I had a buddy who like someone backed into him in a parking lot with one of those tow hitches or something and that was it. Yeah, that's the clam. Yeah. Well, that's why they that's why there's so many salvaged Lotuses out there. You would actually be able to get a good deal. Would I? Oh, we got to tell you about Jack's car that he just bought. We'll make the announcement here. Oh wow, he bought a sports car. He did. Yeah. It's a compliment to the 2005 Lexus RX 330. There we [laughter] go. Yeah, well we we have the mom car right that I can take like grocery shopping and then I have the date car. Okay. A 2000 Mazda MX-5 SE. Oh nice. That's Yeah, it's a Miata. It's a Miata. [laughter] But we can't say you know MX-5 SE you know MX-5 SE. That's that's a great What color? It's the it's like the purple one. The SE I think only comes in one color. What manual? Yes, six speed. Nice. That's awesome. It's a great car. It's got some big dents in it but we're we're smoothing it out right now. point of a car like that is that you can park it and you know you don't have to worry. Every time you get you start getting expensive cars you start really getting nervous. I always tell people the greatest luxury car in the world is a relatively inexpensive car because you don't ever have to think about it. I don't worry about it. I kind of drive it like a maniac sometimes but I'm safe. I'm very safe and it's it's a great time. Yeah. So have you ever taken out a luxury car and made a mistake and scratched it up? No. Never. I worry about it a lot and it's interesting cuz my own daily driver car I have a brand new Land Rover Defender which is a really cool car and it was expensive, $75,000. And it's scratched and dented to hell already even though I've only had it 18 months. I drove it across the country four times already. I've done all sorts of crazy off-roading with it and I feel like that's the one car that I feel that I don't have to worry about. [laughter] I love that because my entire life is spent worrying whether it's my own cars or like the cars that I review of people's that are usually very valuable and special and so it's really nice. The the the ability to not care is just so nice and I've been richly rewarded because the market is insane and that car is probably worth what I paid even though I've got some [laughter] miles on it and stuff. It's all worked out pretty well. I know. I know. Yeah, the markup on those cars right now. If you walk into a dealership they'll be like well you could buy one of these but because so many other people want to buy them you need 20 grand more. dealer told me they were asking 25 over. 25? because I when I bought mine it was kind of a lull. It was the end of 20 this chip shortage thing wasn't a thing. COVID was kind of slowing down. Everybody was like okay this is over. They were starting to get to dealers. I paid sticker and I had a couple buddies that were like you honestly you shouldn't have negotiated. And now it's like [laughter] You can't you can't do it. You can't do it at all. So for those that aren't familiar with your channel what would you say you do? If you're in an Uber and they say what what do you do Doug? If I'm in an Uber I lie. [laughter] I'm an attorney. I'm an accountant. Something like that. I'm not going to get a single follow-up question. But if I'm telling like one of my wife's friends I make YouTube but I may review cars. Don't you? You lie, right? I do. I do. I do. I do. Well it depends who it is. If if it's someone I'm going to see often I tell them the truth but I never want to say that I'm I What do you do? I make YouTube videos. Cuz everyone they think pranks or or the most common thing is you make money doing that? Right. Is that your full-time job? Right. Not only is it my full-time job [laughter] But yeah, I so anyway I review cars on YouTube. I have a I mostly do cars but like 80% new cars and 20% old weird cars and I kind of take people on thorough tours of the quirks and features of the cars. That's my thing. But yeah, God that's that's the one thing I really really do not like is that conversation. [laughter] It's too bad it has it has I don't want to say that it has a reputation like that but anybody over the age of even like 35 I would say. 35 starts to teetering. When you say YouTube they don't get it. Yeah, absolutely. It's fascinating you guys have very different experiences with that than I do cuz I'm I'm younger. I just turned 20 or I didn't just but I'm 23 and I say oh yeah like if I tell someone I do YouTube they don't I never have gotten a follow-up oh you can make money doing that? Because my generation [clears throat] like everyone knows you know that's what a lot of people do want to be but that's just fascinating you guys get like oh you can make money doing that? I live in a neighborhood of like mostly older people and I tell [snorts] them what I do and they're all like lawyers and and it's like the oh the questions are unreal. Like where can I find your writing? They just assume I like I review cars. Oh like in a magazine? No cuz nobody does that anymore. [laughter] No, it's a blog. I just like it's it's a it's an interesting thing. I actually prefer meeting people and the interactions with people random people on the street is always an interesting thing and and they recognize I'm sure you get this all the time and and that's always it's always I prefer those vastly to the people who don't know and you have to explain it because every explanation is the same and it is like grating. Like to be like yeah, I make videos. Yeah, here's how it makes money. YouTube generates Google has ads and it's just a whole thing. But it's always interesting to meet normal Yeah. people who fans and things. It's it's interesting in real estate because going through and now it's less of an issue but when I first started making like a a decent amount from YouTube and you're going and explaining to mortgage brokers or the underwriter at a bank how do you make money? They don't get it. And I remember trying to explain this to Bank of America, their underwriter just truly didn't understand. getting a home loan, you mean? Or like Yes. When I was getting a home loan, I was getting a mortgage, and I was showing that the money was coming in from Google. And they said, "So, you work for Google?" I'm like, "No, I don't work for Google." Yeah. same I'll never forget the question they asked was, um, "Do you have a contract?" Yes, they asked me the same thing. "Let me see your employment contract." I'm like, "It doesn't exist." They're like, "But they But they pay you? How much do they pay you?" Well, it depends on how many views. Well, show us the contract that says they'll pay you this much for that much views. Like, it doesn't exist. Depends on the ad rates. Like, some months are higher than others. It was That was the hardest one of the hardest things I've ever [laughter] done in my entire life. Getting a mortgage with this being my career. Fortunately, now I've got a few years of income that you can kind of show, and they're like, "Okay, I I get it." But even still, explaining it is like a complete disaster. That's funny they asked you for a contract. I thought like maybe it was a one-off thing. They don't deal with it that often. assume I think that they when you they see a 1099 person, they assume that you have a contract cuz you're a contractor. And so, they But like, I just don't get how they don't get it. Like, I Of course, I think that because this is my world, and I I'm like, "How could you not know?" But a lot of people don't know. My parents still don't understand it, so. Yeah, same when I come back to LA. Every now and then, I'll visit um the old real estate office, not the Oppenheim Group, but before that, at Coldwell Banker. And a lot of those agents were like 50s and 60s, and they kind of some of them knew about YouTube, some of them didn't. But every now and then, when I do see them, they'll ask something along the lines of "You still making videos?" You're still doing that thing? Yeah. You're still doing that vlog thing? Yeah, like Yeah, as if as though it's like some passing thing. It's like, "Oh, yeah, no, I'm over that." Here's a question for you. People come up to me all the time on the street and ask for car advice, or tell me they bought a car cuz of me, or whatever. Do people come up to you and ask for financial [laughter] advice? All the time. Really? All the time. What is the conversation be like? I am shocked how quickly people open up about Yeah, within 10 seconds, I know their net worth, how much they're making, what their credit score is, what they're invested in. I mean, they will tell me their their entire financial life in 10 seconds, and I get a good idea of like what's going on. But because it's so personal, it'll they'll open up to so many other things as well. Like, you know, I quit my job at this, I'm doing this thing right now. My net worth went up 30% because I was invested in this, I'm doing this right now. What do you recommend? It's always [laughter] What do you What do you recommend? you tell people? recommend? conversations you have on the street, like in the airport. Yes. Um people? It's It's buying a It's It's usually It's usually buying a Yeah. You don't be You don't say like Entertainment purposes only, granted. But yeah. I'm not your financial You don't say like [laughter] This is an insane conversation. Like, that's what I would think. No, no, no, no, no, I'm so used to it. No, I'm into it. It's weird for me, and uh and sometimes Macy's, my girlfriend, has to pull me back sometimes because like I'll be introduced, and I'll be like, "Yeah, so So, how much you make last year?" And I'll be like, "So, how much of that did you save?" And And sometimes it just comes up like, "So, what's your net worth?" And it's so common for me because everyone that I talk to You can't just ask that to people that you're meeting at a Everybody that I talk to is like, "Oh, yeah, I know, no, it's Yeah, my net worth right now is 5.4, and But that's what I'm interested I like I'm really curious about that. It's not, you know, there's nothing other than just just genuine curiosity. So, for me, it's normal, and I appreciate it. Right. Cuz it's what I would want to know. Yeah. But it's not normal. Right. Right. Another pretty common occurrence, like if you meet a fan, is that for Graham, it's like they'll just go up and open up their wallet and show Graham all of their credit cards. Just like, "What do you think about this? I have this one that does this, this one that does this." Makes you so proud. They always pull out the Discover it's secured. They're like, "This is my first credit card. I cuz I watched your video 4 years ago, and I got it. I still use it today." And then, they pull out the Citi Double Cash. They're like, "Then I use this one on it." And then, they'll pull out the Amex, be like, "I booked a you know, plane ticket on this." So, it's cool. And it's nice to be able to have that effect. And I have people every day. I had a guy this morning at Cars and Coffee come up to me and say, "You know, I bought whatever it was because of you." And now, it's becoming "I bought whatever it was on Cars and Bids." Like, I literally bought the car on your site, which is There's some pride Then, you're like, "Okay, I hope you had a good experience." But there's some pride there. Like, it's I get it. It's like kind of a cool thing. Yeah. Um It is weird. The few times I've had to do find that what I've done finance videos, like the comments I think that the car community and the finance community are not necessarily hand in hand. I think if you're into cars and into finance, you are in that space. But a lot of car people just like have like no financial sense at all. I did a video about how in today's market, with interest rates being what they are, it. you should finance instead of pay cash, which is like, to me, a no-brainer. Automakers are offering, you know, 1% loan. I mean, it's insane. Of course, you should. Any rational person would. And oh my god, the comments. You read the comments? People are like, I Some people are like, "I would never buy a car, finance a car. When I pay cash, it's One of the comments that had like 400 thumbs up was like, "When I pay cash, it feels realer." And I'm like, Mhm. I [laughter] It It's It's difficult because there's there's a big psychological aspect to that of like It's a It's a psychological thing, and I but I try to explain to people that's not necessarily the best decision. And I think people get like angry that you nuanced. Yeah. So, sometimes in in stuff like that, you have to go with the majority of when you buy a car like that, you should just pay it off in cash because it's easier for people to understand, and less people could get hurt. Right. And I was careful in the video to be like Yeah. This only works if you can have access to really low interest rates, and if you have the money, and you're not stretching, and all that. And I think that a lot of people realized that they might get into trouble if they just started going out and financing stuff. And so, my the video was intended to be about if you can pay with cash, that's probably when you shouldn't, you know? But but boy, did that [laughter] It's Yeah, I And person Finance like that is so One of my most viewed videos was whether or not you should get a 15- or 30-year mortgage, and that was one of my first videos that I made. And I've never seen people so divisive on 30 versus 15. And there are some people who are were just so adamant that no, you want to pay it off in 15 years because then you're paying a smaller amount of interest, even though the interest is over 30 years. And And mathematically, it makes sense to take the take the 30-year. But sometimes, you just have to feed into the psychological aspect that people like having something paid off. Yeah. And And And if that's how they feel, then I guess that's what they should do because if they're simply not going to be convinced, and if the psychological aspect plays that much of a thing, and if they won't be able to sleep at night, Yeah. such is life. Yeah, when I bought the the Ford GT, I paid for that in cash. And that was one of the thing That was a year ago. A year ago, I paid cash for it. But the the reason was I I inquired to one person to get a loan, or one one company to get a loan, and they wanted so much documentation. I was like, it's just I don't want to go through that that loan process. Yeah. Yeah. It's horrible. Yeah, I So, yeah. I recently bought a house, and it was such a hellish process that I now Like, I for a long time, I'm like, "Why would anybody pay cash for a house with interest rates the way they are?" After that, I now kind of realize [laughter] like, if you can, and if it's like if you're worth 50 million, and a 2 million dollar house, you just write a check, maybe it makes some sense. You just don't have to go through all that crap. And when did you buy a house? Uh I bought a house here in San Diego in '19. Wow. Okay, so good time in in hindsight, actually. time, but it's interesting because we bought the house, we paid the highest price per square foot in the neighborhood, and everybody thought we were nuts. So, now they're not thinking that right now. When When in 2019? Do you remember? Beginning, like start of the year. That was a good time to buy because 2018, the the Fed started raising rates, Yep. And the real estate market softened a little bit. And that was one of the few times where things started going down. I'll just barely. And we we when we we were under contract on the same house in 2018 for more money, and then we ended up buying the house for less money when it went back on the market in '19. So, it worked out well. And most importantly, obviously, things have gone nuts. And And San Diego's one of the markets where they've especially gone nuts. This It's absolutely up and out of control. It's one of the highest increases. Um and Boise is insane, but it's insane everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, you're probably up 25%. I was just going to ask, is that your only property? Yeah. Um it is. But yeah, I think 25% Yeah, which is insane. We were We thought it was inflated then. And everybody else did, too. All of our neighbors were like, "This is insane. Nobody should pay this." Did you worry when COVID hit that like you had just bought a house, you had a business that was online reviewing people's cars? [laughter] Was Cuz I remember when I I bought a house the month before COVID. It was the most expen- I went from a an 800 square foot duplex to a 2 million dollar house in Santa Monica and the month after COVID hit. And I remember I had sponsors all of a sudden in March started backing out, saying, "We want We want to see what happens, see how this plays out." Ad revenue drops substantially. I was like, "Oh, crap. I got in just terrible timing." I was like, "You know what? The what what can I do?" You got to But yeah. I think that the the key is, and you know this, and you probably advocate for this, you got to spend less than you can, you know, in case stuff goes bad. And that was my big thing. Um no, I wasn't that concerned. But yeah, when COVID hit, it was tough just generally. I mean, just didn't know what was going to happen. And I was really worried because we were trying to get pregnant throughout all of '20. We had a couple miscarriages, and we were pregnant when COVID hit. And the outcome for women with who are pregnant with COVID was not known, and it was Since it has become known, it actually is turns out not to be all that good. And so, we've always been more cautious than we than I want to be. Um and so, like I don't want to go to car like dealerships, which are like the most conservative organizations. Like, those guys are like, "No mask policy, no masks." And I was nervous about all that, for sure. Um and so, that aspect was the thing that that's that worried me the most. Like, doing these videos with people Like, this video here would not have been even conceivable during the start of COVID. Like, no We were We were washing pears with individual wet wipes. Like, do you remember that world? Like, of Like, everyone was terrified of everything. Delivery, is it safe? Leaving the packages outside for like 2 days just to just to bring it inside cuz you didn't know. Well, you didn't know. You didn't know. Exactly. And so, I was scared more less about the channel cuz I kind of thought it would come back and honestly I could I could get a big drop in revenue and be okay. I was more worried about like physically going to dudes' houses and like meeting them and that whole Yeah. Um when you make content though, how much of a backlog do you have? It depends. I we spend every summer on the East Coast and I don't film. And so you got to get a backlog to do that like a serious. So by the time the summer rolls around like in June I usually have like 25 videos. Wow. Which for me cuz I like to put up two main like two main videos every week, that's two and a half months. But you got to have it if if you want to do that. That's the one problem with YouTube you can't really take a vacation. Like there's no breaks. Wow. So What do you do? You must have a similar Yeah, so I'm always two videos ahead on the main channel and I'm usually a week ahead on the second channel. Wow. Uh the I this this podcast for what? Three weeks ahead? Right now we're three weeks ahead but usually it's like one week to just current. And then vlogs are just Those are easy. I'll spend 20 I'll spend 20 minutes chatting. What do you do when you take vacations? And if you're only You don't take vacations. You can't. I I took the first vacation in 5 years to Hawaii for 5 days and it took me a week a week of working probably 12 to 14 hour days to get 5 days off. But first I want to thank our sponsor Huel. Alex, I'm so hungry but I don't have the time to make a healthy meal. I guess it's fast food again. Jack, don't settle for unhealthy fast food. Get healthy food fast with Huel. Huel is a meal supplement with all the essential proteins, carbs, fats, fibers, and 27 other essential vitamins and minerals. I've noticed that without proper nutrition I become unproductive and just feel bad and that's why I consider Huel an investment. Not only can it save me time for work, it makes the time I do spend working actually matter. Just mix their plant-based powder with water and you'll feel fantastic and more efficient for the rest of your day. So recently I've been working out more as you can probably tell and I've been drinking Huel Black Edition which has way more protein and way fewer carbs to help me get these insane gains. Huel also has hot and savory meals which include mac and cheese, Thai green chili, and a few others you have to try. Huel is proof that fast food can be good food. I love it and I know you will too. And right now you can get free shipping on your first order plus a shaker and a free t-shirt when you go to huel.com/ich. That's huel.com/ich for free shipping, a shaker, and a t-shirt. Thank you so much Huel and back to the podcast. Do you think that there should be some sort of vacation compensation from YouTube? I thought about this a lot. Like there's I didn't get paternity leave, you know? Like in a job you would. And there's no like advocate for YouTubers. Because like they were making all this money they're stupid they're yeah. Like and so like I but I sit here and think like is there something to be said for maybe having YouTube be like look you can take two weeks a year we'll give you the average of your last two weeks ad rev and like I get obviously why they don't do it and if you do that they start to run into some legal issues because you're an employee at that point. But by not doing it, think about that. You don't have to take a vacation in 5 years except when you did one 5-day one it took that much work like there's there's a middle ground that should I think it's more so algorithm based. Like I don't care about the finances at all. It's purely just will I come back? Is the algorithm going to be the same? If I've spent 5 years working to perfect the algorithm, is taking a week off going to ruin that? Yep. I wish there was like a pause button where they could be like you could pause this and come back in 30 days and your algorithm will be exactly the same. point. I would do that. I would love to do that. Right. Right. But it's always that worry when you come back will it Yeah and also with with the content that I do on the main channel a lot of it is news-based. So it's like whatever happened the day before I have to talk about the next day. And I know some days where something will happen and unless I talk about that specific thing no matter what I post is going to bomb. And then it's going to throw off the next video. So I have to certain days I'm like if I don't talk about this I cannot it's better for me not to post. Interesting. So I'll have to talk about that that one thing. Huh. How about that? Yeah. I guess that makes sense but it's a it's a grind. It's fascinating to me because your videos the production quality doesn't seem to be like something out of this world. It's very simple you like you said you shoot on your iPhone and you use I think you said a camcorder. Yeah. So and also the editing isn't that crazy either. Right. So what's how how much time lapses between shooting the video and then the video being ready to post? on the car. The brand new cars you got to you got to get them up like immediately and sometimes you have to get them up immediately because you're there's a press embargo. But for older car videos they they it takes longer. Um they're not relevant. You got to get the new ones up while it's hot. It's the same reason you want to post news content. Like you got to get it up while people are interested in it. So like Ford Bronco Raptor has got to go up right away. And I got I got videos I shot over a year ago that are still waiting to go up because they're cars from the '80s and if I post it today or if I it's not going to get more or less views so you just hold those. And how much time is demanded for each process of making a YouTube video whether that be filming, editing, traveling, random stuff like that? Uh it's it's a couple hours to it's a couple hours to research the car and write the script. Yeah. Filming is about 4 or 5 hours and then the editing process I think takes Nick about 4 hours. And then there's travel. So like I flew to Michigan to shoot this Bronco Raptor. That's it. That's long. Yeah. And you got to be in Michigan in the winter, you know? And do you generally do multiple takes per shot or is it pretty like seamless and flowing? Um it depends like the mood I'm in and like food I had that you know like how I'm feeling. I'm sure it's the same. same way with me. Some days I wake up and I know this is a good filming day. For whatever reason I'm like I say everything perfectly it goes so smoothly my energy's there. Other days I mispronounce everything. Everything. And then you got to start it yeah. It's it's interesting I don't know why that is I don't get that. But there are days where you you really just know even before you start like this is going to be 2 hours I'll get a whole day of film. And sometimes it's like well I've been here 6 [laughter] I'm still not through this. But yeah that's an odd one I wonder why. How do you keep so it seems like you're very just calm, relaxed, easygoing? Have you always been like that? Yeah I guess. Really? I don't know. I think yeah. Do you get stressed? Uh yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. What do you What stresses you out? when you got This is the the benefit of having the channel with with no employees. You don't you're not beholden to anybody. But now I got like Cars and Bids I got like 14 15 people depending on my continued success. And that's stressful. Don't you think like having employees is like a stressful thing? I mean I obviously I like Jack and Alex but I can't imagine having more people. And I've always just been the type where I I would just do everything myself. Yeah. So yeah. there's there's benefit to it and also you don't you're not like beholden like knowing that people with families are like depending on you. That's like some Jack is I I view it differently. Jack is the opposite. I'm not the opposite. I I do believe in outsourcing things that don't necessarily need to be done and also I do think if you're constantly doing things that you don't like to do it's going to make your work That's true. a lot more difficult and it's going to be like a sprint instead of a marathon and you have to prepare yourself. glad I outsourced editing for that exact reason. Well Think about it this way. The way I like to view it is a lot of the times what makes people nervous about editing or or hiring more people is the fact that you have to find people that are perfect fits and training them up and stuff like that. But think about it this way. If you could if you could hire someone cuz you said your editor's fantastic, right? And they were as diligent and responsible and as much of a go-getter as your editor, would you hire another person? If they were just like that person but they wanted to help out in another way. It's impossible to find those people because those people are already employed and doing great things. And I'm stuck with it's very difficult to find those people. But if you could, would Oh yeah. Yeah. Sure. And you said during your interview with Graham for the main channel that you thought it was impossible to outsource your editing, right? Yeah. But then how many people did it go did you have to go through to find this person? just the guy. Just the one dude. Just the first person, right? Okay you make an interesting point. At this point I don't really need anybody else. But that's what we did with Cars and Bids. I there were so many things I did not want to give up. I was like no I'm going to set all the reserves. Well that became stupid. We get 80 cars submitted to us a day I'm not going to set all the reserves. Like I want to be the final word on what the I want to edit every listing. That was for the first couple weeks. That's not real. That's okay one feasible. And so we I've learned over the last year that like yes it can be useful to outsource some of the stuff. And I also am a big big big believer in specializing. And so like my thing is like I'm good at making the videos. I should make the videos. And other people are good at other stuff and that's probably what I should like I got a I got a guy who does my grass. You know my my garden I want. He's good at that. If you feel like you're balanced and you're at a point where you could do this for 15 20 years that's totally fine and you'll probably have ample employees and you're you're good to go. So. But I'm not like the the type that's like oh yeah hire aimlessly just start hiring and bring aboard. Jack got an intern. So Jack has and his assistant. Jack has you a tool. Jack has two people working underneath him. Nice. [laughter] Yeah. So you it has improved my work-life balance Yeah. dramatically. I think what a lot of people don't understand is that there is a benefit to the work-life balance is a I've learned this as I've gotten older. Initially my whole goal was making money. Mhm. And like succeeding and excelling. I didn't come from a lot of money. I never was in a situation where I had any money truthfully. I mean we were comfortable but my we never like were I didn't know anybody with super car like that wasn't a thing. And it was nice to do that. And then I started to realize what would also be nice is to enjoy some of it and to take a vacation, you know? And outsourcing I think was a smart decision. And honestly now things have equalized to the point we've hired enough of cars and bids I could take back the editing if I wanted to and probably still be okay but I'm not going to cuz I have a kid and it's he's it's kind of cool and I have noodle and I have like my cars I want to drive and my friends and there's something to that it's worth spending whatever the editor costs every year to have to be able to proper work-life balance and to be able to continue to do however you're doing for the next 10 years or so you mentioned the vacation thing I don't know for me it feels like work is the vacation like I enjoy like to me like this would be the vacation like this is my little vacation yeah that's a great position to be in I feel the same about both work and actual vacation but that's the best position to be in because you enjoy what you do you're never you're never work a day in your life right that's like the stupid meme but it's kind of true and there are a lot of people who have jobs that suck but Jack outsourced I'm I'm just going to say it you're you're you're tin Jack outsourced his Tinder well that's [laughter] that is I didn't know you're going to say that What did you think it was going to say I thought you were going to say I don't know like cleaning or something like that [laughter] but but yeah so well I guess I have to elaborate now but yeah I hired a personal assistant and this person's basically here to just relieve me of the certain things that I have to do on a day-to-day basis and obviously I will not obviously but I bought a house back in October with the house there were a lot of things wrong with it and I have to talk with contractors and I want to put solar on replace the AC unit do all of this stuff but I I realized if I have a lot of stuff going on like a lot of smaller tasks it takes my mind away from the big stuff I should be focusing on so I figured it was worth it you talk about work-life balance that's life that's it [laughter] I No I did not hire I did not hire someone out to swipe for me on Tinder I still swipe for myself on Tinder and if I've matched with anyone watching this right now [laughter] it is me talking to you it is me but no I I basically I lost my Tinder account and when I switched phones and I got him to submit a ticket for me and basically it goes Okay yeah it's [laughter] I was sitting there thinking you got you like told the dude all right look I like this type of person no I still [laughter] swipe that's life you know If you could create a bot though that does facial recognition that knows like generally your preference and will automatically swipe But don't don't there's more to it though like it's not just the face [laughter] like the bot would also have to like it no corny jokes in the profile you know that sort of thing but uh yeah that would actually be interesting to outsource your Tinder my friends and I were just talking the other day there there is a race series with Ferraris that you call the Ferrari Challenge Series where you buy a Ferrari Challenge race car and then you drive they there's like every weekend basically throughout the summer there's like a race series uh where you race your Challenge car against other people who have these cars and obviously it's very wealthy people who do this and now some of the guys who do this have hired a driver so they're not even racing the car themselves because they want to win so bad and that's like the ultimate like CEO move is to outsource your leisure time [laughter] you're not even getting the enjoyment of using the Challenge car they're literally watching someone else use it so they can [laughter] win and that is a good example of this I guess Oh my gosh so how much free time would you say you have now um nights and weekends tend to be to be pretty free I do a little bit more traveling for work than I would like to at the current moment and I don't think that's going to stop and so sometimes those Saturday I'll be gone for that or a a night I'll be away um but I've tried to focus really on um kind of get combining everything into a typical work day which is longer than most people's I guess I work from like 6:00 to 6:00 um but that's it there's no night like evenings I have with my family and weekends I generally hang out Have you been surprised with the growth of the channel so far I I've been surprised since day one I don't understand [laughter] do you Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah Well with the with the other channels not so much now but yeah the no the main channel is the one that yeah I never would have imagined I I don't get why um yeah it it is surprising and it's surprising me that you can do this I remember when I was in college I'm curious to hear your original thoughts about YouTube before you started doing this cuz I was when I was in college they were you heard about this guy PewDiePie who made a lot of money on YouTube and it was like this okay but I'm going to get a job and have like a life a normal life and then like it started happening and it's like I can't believe this is this is something that's happening especially to me and probably to you because like some of our colleagues like wanted to be YouTubers and have always been kind of dramatic or fashionable or whatever and so this is a rational next step for them but like isn't it weird when you think about what you do based on like your background or your like that this is my career Yeah I don't know it's it's a it's just what I've enjoyed talking about though so from but when I started there was no one else really talking about personal finance I mean it was weird to be like I'm talking about credit cards today guys but what really set it for me was when do you remember you probably maybe watch him Rob Dom yeah he had a yellow Lamborghini Diablo and right around that time I think that was like 2011 2012 he posted a how he was able to afford a Lamborghini Diablo and I watched that video and I found it so inspiring I wanted to be like Rob Dom and he was filming in his garage and I'm like if I could be able to do that hm that that that was it I just knew it and I messaged Rob Dom on Facebook and I was just like I didn't know what to say so I was like oh what camera do you use like just like the normal stuff just to strike a conversation and he got back to me and I was still like I think at the time he had maybe 15,000 subscribers and I was like like this was a big deal for me to see his response response and we went back and forth on on Facebook and I asked him I said hey listen I think if you just if you continue giving business advice like this you're going to blow up you know cuz no one else is doing this and if if you just gave business advice and practical advice on how to buy a car like that and you just keep doing that it it it's a huge industry no one else is doing it and he got back to me and he said no I just I'm just doing it for fun and I just enjoy talking about the car every now and then and I don't want to keep doing this it's just you know a one-off kind of thing which is true which has remained true for him like he seems to do it as like a hobby purely and and so you saw this opportunity Yes yes as soon as he did that I was like well if he's not doing it I wanted to do it but that was 2011 or 12 and I never had the courage I'm like well he has a Lamborghini I I don't have a Lamborghini like why would someone care about what I have to say right so I just didn't I just didn't of perfect timing though for you because like personal finance and taking control of budgeting and that sort of thing has become like a really hot in the last especially in the last few years I feel like I maybe it was when I was a kid and I just wasn't aware of it but I feel like the internet has given rise to like this huge culture of investing personal finance kind of thing Yeah I'm trying to figure out if like where was the catalyst to that because I remember when I started in 2017 I was late 2016 it wasn't a thing and part of me thinks that maybe it was a bit of the Chase Sapphire Reserve came out and that's when I kind of noticed it everyone was like get the Chase Sapphire Reserve we're going to get the points we're going to get free stuff maybe that got people into it or maybe it was the fact that you know we had a recession uh people coming of age after graduating were like now trying to figure out their finances and maybe that was like a shift but for me I just always was into it and I didn't have friends in person that I could talk to about credit cards and personal finance so I'd spend hours on Reddit in the financial independent subreddit and personal finance just just answering questions and just going back and forth so I thought that like maybe if I could talk about this on YouTube someone might find it interesting but no one else was really doing it are there a bunch of people now doing it Oh gosh there's there's it's weird because in the beginning it was maybe five of us and there's a channel Beat the Bush we actually were were fortunate enough to have him come on and he was he's very so he doesn't do any collabs this is the first time he's ever done a podcast but he was the one that I looked to back then because he was making videos about financial independence and retiring early and I remember back then he'd get like 5,000 views so I thought well if he could get 5,000 views I know that at least there's 5,000 people out there who would want to hear it that's good enough for me so it came from that when very few people were doing it 5,000 that was the number 5,000 yeah [laughter] if I get 5,000 views there was another guy his name was Brian Casella he had 15 10 or 15,000 subscribers giving advice as a real estate agent and so I looked at him and I said well if he's giving advice as an agent I know I could probably get 15,000 subscribers if I did the content as good as his or better and so that this that was kind of how I viewed that it made me feel comfortable about jumping in because at least I'm not the only one and there's a few other people doing it too It's amazing to think back that it was that it was like the frontier It was but it's it's interesting because now it seems like oh in hindsight yeah it would have been easy but it's weird because it's shifting back to niche topics like back then you couldn't really do niche topics cuz no one would care but then now as I've grown bigger you have to be more broad and general and so now it's the niche the niche channels that are coming back up the people who talk about people are now watching this that if you have something that directed that no one else is talking about you can Yeah like I couldn't make a video breaking down uh I don't know Tesla stock There's too much Yeah exactly it's too niche and it just it wouldn't appeal to a mass audience so there's a huge demographic out there who just wants Tesla stock or just wants the analysis on one type of how interesting huh so it's kind of shifting back and those are the channels now that are that are kind of growing a little bit more interesting uh same with cryptocurrency crypto is everything right now interesting do you own any crypto No but I totally think it's a reasonable thing and I just have I probably should have a long time ago done it. Um 3 years ago I would have said it was like the stupidest scam BS in the world, but some people who I take seriously take crypto seriously. And so to me it's like a a fairly reasonable thing. Do you I assume you do? Yes, I do. So I was the exact same as you. Uh I thought crypto was the biggest waste of money. I was like, "You can't value it." And so I'm like, "Well, the value's only in what someone else is willing to pay for it. I don't want to put my money in that." But over time um same as you, the more people took it seriously than I was like, "Well, maybe I should give this a chance." And once I jumped in, I was like I saw the appeal. Yeah. So right now I think crypto's down, so I think I'm about 5 to 6% of my entire portfolio is crypto. Yeah. So. Yeah, that seems like a healthy I would do it. Not financial advice. Absolute But but but for if for good entertainment, you should buy [laughter] you should buy a one Bitcoin and 10 Ethereum for a lot of fun. Yeah. And just that's it. Just put it to the side, don't look at it. Yeah. One Bitcoin, 10 Ethereum. I just I'm more of a traditional guy, but you Bitcoin is rapid or crypto in general is rapidly becoming more traditional than I ever would have expected 5 years ago. Some people were way out ahead of that and I wish I had been of course, like every investment. But I've been out ahead of some other stuff. The cars have all done incredibly well. So that's like that again, specializing. Like I kind of knew what I thought would go up in value and look what it look what happened, you know? It all worked out. Would you be comfortable talking about different percentages and how like different asset classes reflect your portfolio? Um yeah. have to disclose numbers, but just percentages. I don't quite know as much. Um but I feel like I have a good I have probably more than I ought to in the in the market. Um just mostly in index funds and stuff. And I think that the I say more than I ought to even though it's probably half of maybe a little more. But I I graduated college in 10. Mhm. And nobody who graduated college in 10 trusts the stock market. It just doesn't occur. Like everybody thinks that look we all lived through that. I remember sitting there watching in college I was a senior or a junior and like Bear Stearns is collapsing and Lehman is collapsing and I'm sitting there thinking, "The market is not safe. I'm never going to get a job. [laughter] I'm screwed." Yeah. And so like even still to this day, I remember back then that cash was a big deal. If you had cash in '09, you were you were king. Yeah. And I reme- I thought ever since then like I still need to hold some cash and I have and probably more which is funny cuz I'm over here thinking that Stradman's insane for doing it and I probably hold more than I should. Um but I if there's ever another '09, I want to I want to be able to buy it at 40, you know? Yeah. The problem is you won't. When it happens, you're scared. Yeah. That's that's what happened at the start of 20. Like everything went down and I was like You freeze. Froze. I was like, "I've got the cash. I could do something." Yeah. And then instead I was like, "I'm not buying anything in this market." It's too scary. It was interesting, Jack. Actually I think you and I went for we used to cuz Jack lived with he lived in the guest house right when COVID hit. And I think it was March or April we were taking a run and I had a whole bunch of cash sitting on the sidelines. A whole bunch. Now I didn't sell out of anything. It's just I was saving up to buy a property. And when the stock market fell, I was telling Jack, "Man, should I just dump it all in the markets?" And I I couldn't I mean that would have been the right thing to do, but I dollar cost averaged I think beginning late March or early April of 2020. not as smart but in retrospect, but it could have been cuz in '08 in '08 there was a drop like that and you could have dumped everything in. And there was a lot more drop to come. And that's that was my fear. And that's why in order to actually capitalize when the market is down, you got to have you got to be willing to take some risk. Yeah. And I'm just I'm not like there anymore mentally. And if I never own an F40 even if it gets cheap again, then so be it. Yeah. Like in that That's why it's so much easier at least for me just to keep buying. And so I have a I have a routine every single morning I wake up now and I check my account and I buy it before I get out of bed. Yeah. And I buy the same amount every single day. And then I scroll through the individual stocks. I'm like, "If one is down or one looks like really good that day, buy a little bit for fun." But the majority of it is just S&P and then I'm buying 10 10 to 20% sometimes international depending on how that's doing. Yeah. How much is it per day that you buy? 6,000 probably. 6,000 a day. Yeah. When do you cash out? This is what [laughter] I started to think about. Yeah. We've been thinking about make adding an addition to our house and I don't want to sell anything. Yeah. At least I No, I'm not. Yeah. But at the same time it's like isn't this what I'm investing for? Like isn't this kind of thing what I'm investing for? And I don't know what to do about that. And you could make the same argument with cars. Like I wouldn't mind another cool car, but I'm not going to sell. But at the same time it's like what if I died and was like, "Damn, I had all this money in the market like an idiot." [laughter] Yeah. It's a That's Right now I'm starting to come to terms more with that. Initially it was like I need to get some investments like 10 years ago. And now it's like, "Okay, I have them. Now what? Like what do I do?" Yeah. I look at the dividends. So it's funny I don't look at the overall return. I just go on mine there's there's like a little thing that you could go to. It scrolls to show your estimated revenue with dividends. Yeah. And so I only look at that. I'm like, "Well, you know, regardless of what the stocks are going to be doing, I know I'm going to be getting about that." Yeah. So that's kind of what I think I'm mentally. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. And so it's fun because every day you invest, you watch that number go up just a little bit. I'm like, "Wow, you know, today I got an extra 20 bucks." Yeah. I I love that feeling. Even if it's like $10, I'm like, "What can I buy with $10?" Well, if I you know, over 2 days that's sushi. Right. So like every other day now I get an extra sushi. Right. So I I find that fun. you actually reinvest the dividends? I reinvest them all. Yeah. it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. [laughter] But I I could choose not to. I mean it's a little check of a button you choose not to. But but no, I reinvest all of that. Right. Right. I don't know. It's an interesting thing. I also I feel the same way and I and I invest not every day, but I have an number every month or whatever it is and put in and and I always have. And but at some point I'm just like am I missing out on stuff I should be doing like on a day-to-day level because I [laughter] Crypto. dollar cost averaged so much apparently. And but like like stuff I should be buying, travel I should be doing or whatever because I've put so much money in the market. Like this year I told my wife I was like, "I don't know if I want to do this house addition. I'd rather invest." And she's like, "We like we got to live." I was like, "Yeah, but you know, it's pretty nice to You could always create like a like a fund on the side and say, "Okay, well, 5% is going into this fund and when we have enough money, then we're going to do that that house remodel." the numbers for what tens of a $10,000, $5,000, whatever put in is in when we're 60. Yes. It's just so hard not to. It's so hard not to. That's why I've really prioritized like saving and investing now because the the opportunity cost before 40 is a lot. Okay, but here's a question. You love work. Yeah. So like isn't it kind of BS? Like you're not you're going to want to work forever. Yeah, but So at the end of the day even when you're 60 and it's a lot of money, still going to want to work. I think about this a lot. I love my job. I would work as long as I could. Yeah. And so I'm thinking like, "Yeah, it's going to end up being a lot, but like I want to still be working." A lot of people when they do this, their goal is to retire early at 50 or 40 or whatever. But like you and I, we enjoy what we do so much. I don't have that goal. And so that's an interesting thing that kind of changes the the game for me a little. Yeah, but I think I think at at least for me it's you don't know how long something is going to last so that when it's working, you may as well double down on it. Cuz I never want to look back 10 years from now and be like, "Well, you know, it's not working the same as it did back then. The audience something happened and I didn't make the most of it back then." on it. Right. That's right. Cuz I always looked at it and it's funny you mentioned like a like a highly paid athlete on YouTube. But I always went into it thinking the average YouTuber that I used to watch, they last between 5 and 7 years. And then either they voluntarily step back, uh the audience grows bored of them, they're not able to keep relevant and and they just kind of go go different ways. So I've always seen it 5 to 7 years and I hit 5 years. So I'm like, "Well, in my mind, I'm at that kind of peak point where you know, I'd love for it to continue, but I just don't know." Don't you think that that we're kind of in uncharted territory? Yeah. Like a lot of the guys before lasted 5 to 7 years some of them maybe, but even before was only like 5 years ago. Who knows? Yeah. That's that's that's been my biggest fear is that like even if it lasts 10, you just you're you're clueless. This is one of the things I try to I try to point out whenever people are like, "Oh, you make a lot of money from YouTube." Whatever. It's like, "Yeah, but like if you're an attorney or a doctor, you can have a pretty good idea that you're going to have a career that's going to span for X amount of time. You're going to earn throughout your career and you made partner and you'll do this or that." Yeah. Um it's not quite as easy when you're in YouTube and like you make a lot in a very concentrated period of time and it could end tomorrow and that's the scary thing. How how much did you uh did you pay for your GT? 306. Wow. So yeah, and it just so happened to be one of the most affordable ones on bring a trailer for the mileage. Cuz all the other ones and I was I was meticulous about these numbers when I went in cuz Yeah. I you're cuz you're bidding against other people and I was so concerned about getting caught up in the moment and be like, "Oh, it's another thousand another thousand." yeah, it was it was I think thousand dollar increments. And so it's easy to be like, "Well, I'm not going to lose it just for a thousand dollars." And it's easy to get carried away. So I I looked at all the numbers of these cars. I think it was like 310 to 312 was my upper limit from what I'd feel comfortable spending so that if for whatever reason I sold the car, I wouldn't take a big loss on it. Yeah. And uh so in fact, how I won it was very interesting. Uh we have a friend Anthony and he's a poker player. And one of the things that he would do to throw people off is he would throw in a bid with a with an odd number. So instead of betting like, "Here's a hundred dollars." He'd be like, "Two hundred and thirty-seven dollars." Right. And he said sometimes when you throw in like a weird number like that, it's going to throw them off enough where [laughter] they're they it it it catches them off that they're less likely to call. And he's like, it it works. Uh I've been doing this for years. And so I was thinking when I'm bidding, I'm like, what if I did that? bizarre pieces of advice I've ever heard. that's how I won the auction. That's interesting. The one time I threw in So I was bidding in thousand dollar increments and that just came up in my mind. I'm like, and I thought, well, I'm going to bid $1,238 instead of the usual cuz everyone's coming up a thousand. And that was the one that won. So technically it was like 306 138 or whatever. Why'd you choose the GT? Love the car. I love the car. I thought it was a car that people would see that not only if it So first of all, from an investment standpoint, I'm like, there's very few cars that are that good for value. So I knew I had to get a car that was going to hold its value or increase. And I felt like these should be half a million dollar cars. Yeah. So I kind of thought for an investment, it works. Mechanically, I like the fact that it was Ford and you could go and get parts. Yep. So I wasn't worried about like, oh man, like we have to wait for stuff to be shipped from Italy. Yep. And I also felt like if I wanted to incorporate it in some way in the channel. So I wanted something in the backdrop. And I felt, well, a Lamborghini's going to be too over the top. Yeah. Unless I get a Diablo or you know, cool gated Murcielago or a Countach. But the maintenance is going to be so crazy on that and if anything were to happen, I couldn't justify spending that. Yeah. Yeah. You know, one of the things that I found about the car, mine, is that um it is the least divisive exotic car. Yeah. Everyone loves it. Yeah. People Some guys like Ferraris, some people like Porsches, some people like Lamborghinis, but everyone agrees on the Ford GT. Yeah. Somehow. It's because it's because of the history behind the car and it it's seen as like a car enthusiast car. If you're into cars, yeah. I feel the same way. I love that car so much. I paid 225 for mine, which is insane. How many miles? It's got Now it has 38,000 miles. Came in at 30. So it was a it was a mild car. It's been driven. But um but still, there are no more at 225. If there were, I'd buy them. Um I love the car so much and I think it's really really special. You know, in '09 during the worst of it, there were some that sold for under 100. [snorts] Yeah, pretty good stuff. I remember in 2010 cuz this is 2009 No, yeah, 2010 2011, I think, when I started to buy real estate. There was a Lamborghini Diablo that was for sale on eBay and it was $65,000. You know, there's all these you go back and you wish you could. F40's got to 400, 300, 99. I mean, car's two and a half now. Would have been a good play. Yeah. But [snorts] you just never know. Yeah. And and and like we were saying before, you don't necessarily have I mean, I didn't have the money at the time. I'm I'm younger. I didn't have any money for cars like that back then. Um but also you just didn't necessarily want to take the risk cuz it could have gone lower and because maybe you didn't want to tie up your cash and who knows. Who knew what it Everyone was getting rid of those cars. Yeah. No one was buying. Right. No one. And a lot of people needed to sell. It was a tough remember the Ferrari 360s were hitting the $50,000 range for a Ferrari 360. though those are double that now. Yeah. aren't even that great. Right. Not that great of a car. 60's about what it's worth. Um no offense to the Ferrari 360 crowd out there. No, I like that car, but it's not I it's crazy that everything has gone up in value. Even cars that aren't really all that great. Yeah. Everything in life. Property and Yeah. What are your thoughts on the car market right now? Um just that it is it's over it's over inflated for the new cars and the recent used cars, the chip shortage stuff, but I really do believe that like some of these really special cars, I think will never come back down. And I think there's people holding out saying, oh, when this bubble bursts, I'll pick up a Ford GT at 200 again. They'll come back down. I don't think that's going to I think that some of those cars are gone. No, I've heard as far as a bubble's concerned, some companies are giving loans on cars and people are going to be underwater from what they owe on the car versus what the car is worth. What are your thoughts on on a bubble popping in the sense that people are underwater on the cars? Well, I wonder like I have been curious about how people are financing some new cars where dealers are getting 20, 30,000 over sticker. At 100% financing. Right. So are banks really loaning 30 grand over, 20 grand over? G Wagons, a new G63 is $100,000 over right now. If you're lucky, some dealers are charging 150 over, okay? 150? The ba- That's Isn't that double? They they got really expensive. I think sticker on those is like what like 190 now, 180? No. But people are paying 300 for G63s. And not some people. Every single new G63 transacting right now is going 100, 150 over, okay? Every single one. You drive around, you see a new G63, that dude paid $300,000 for that car. I'm not exact Or he got really lucky and did it before any of this happened. And even then they were asking 50 over. So then I'm sitting here thinking, what are banks financing 100 over? What are people doing? Like how is this happening? They would. You know why? Are they taking out home equity? Like what is happening? Yeah, because it like That's interesting. I actually never thought of that. Because with a house, banks will get an appraisal. And so they'll know based on the comps of all the other properties, it's worth this and you have to put down, you know, 10 to 25%. And then cover the difference. Right. If you're paying more than what the home is worth, that comes out of your pocket. But with cars, what appraisal is there not that says that The the the bank assumes that the that the price you agree on with the dealership is roughly the market price because cars are relatively common and that should be the case. But like in today's market, there's all these cars selling. Defender, we were talking Defenders 20 over, 25 over. That's insane. And what happens when the chip shortage clears those up and suddenly they're now depreciating like normal. Not only I mean, the delta is already pretty bad when you finance a car that depreciates quickly. You already get underwater sometimes, but now it's going to be wild. Now, not everybody is buying cars that are I think that the saving grace here is not everybody is buying cars that are 20 over. But a lot of people are. This market is totally crazy. What was it the the average price for a Toyota Camry now is like 40 something thousand dollars. Could you believe that? For a Toyota Camry. is now like almost 50 something in the 40s. I remember when I remember when it hit 30 when I was like 18 and it was a huge deal. Look at us now. I still think of new cars and I think like in the 20s cuz I remember like a Honda Accord like new like 24, 25. And like that's my threshold. So to think 40. Right. Which shows how out of touch with that segment. But like a Civic is not 24 doesn't even buy you like a nice Civic anymore. It's like a base Civic. Like at the cheapest new car is like 15 and that has that's a disaster. That's like a Chevy Sonic. It does disaster. gosh. That could be an issue. I never thought of it. Now, the people buying G Wagons necessarily are not too concerned. you There there's still an aspect of this whole like flexing and over fine like there was in '08. I don't think it's going to be I There are a lot of people think the budget bubble will burst and it'll be like '08 and we'll be in another recession. I don't feel that way. But there is some crazy stuff going on. [laughter] And the NFTs is it Come on. Yeah. Come on. Come on, Jay. What are your thoughts on NFTs? Speaking of NFTs. You think that's insane? Come on. I don't get it. Okay. What do you think? I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life. I think that that gives us a fan- a fantastic proof that we're in a a bubble. If you want to prove that we're in a bubble in some situations, I don't think for all. I don't think we're going to have another recession. I don't think any of that. But if you want another a proof that we're like crazy stuff is going down, look at NFTs. Are you an NFT fan? No. No, I think the digital art, I'm completely against that. I love how you can use it as like a digital certificate of authenticity. I think that's valid and I like uh the the I like the use case of it, but I don't like the whole digital art thing. Who's buying these NFTs? You heard some crazy stuff. People paid $400,000 for this or that. cheap now. Yeah. Depending on the NFT. Right. Yeah. But like who it's not like you Usually when you hear somebody paid $2 million for a piece of art, you assume it's some very old person who just has a ton But like I don't think old people buying rich old people buying NFTs. I know. I think that market's going to crash really hard, like 99%. And it could go up. It could triple from here and then, you know, I look like I look stupid until eventually it'll happen. But there's no way there's that There's a thing what what what what do they call them now? I'm going to sound so old. It's like the doodle like The NFTs is they're called doodles. You can just get a doodle. Yeah. And they're selling for ridiculous amounts of money. Like you you could buy a Porsche or you could buy a doodle. Right. I don't How is this a thing? Is it just people have so much money? The problem is everybody has has gotten so much money over the last 18 months because their stock market investments have absolutely gone crazy. Their home has gone crazy. People are like flush with There was there was government money that came in especially to private to business owners that they didn't maybe necessarily need, but were forgiven. Yeah. And people are it's all just it's speculative. It's just people thinking that They missed the boat yeah, CryptoPunks have gone up. Bored Apes are ex- really expensive now. And it's like, well, this whole NFT space is new. Yeah. And what if they come out with this metaverse or Decentraland or the Sandbox? early. Yeah. And so if I buy this, well, chances are all these other people want to get into. And the crazy thing is that that most people don't think about is that it it is difficult to buy an NFT now. Like think of it. If you want to buy an NFT, where do you go? Most people have no clue. Yeah. And when it gets to the point where you could go online and buy an NFT like you can on Amazon, that's the point I think the whole market is going to blow up. It's going to go so crazy for a few months and then it's just the whole thing's going to pop. interesting point. That's interesting. But you're right, that's a good There's a lot of investments right now probably that are being fueled by a sense of having missed out. Yes. Like the car world, it's very clear. Yeah. Like people are paying crazy money for stuff that just you're like But part of me is like this is what things cost now. I think that people as they age have a difficult time. You talk to older people about some of the cars when they were younger and they're like, "I remember when that was a $6,000 used car." And it's like, well, things change and I think it's difficult sometimes for people to realize that that change has happened. Like, this is permanent. This is what it is now. And so, maybe we're wrong and this is just what things cost now. Including NFTs. I think it's getting to the point where you're seeing like friends or seeing other people make a lot of money and you're thinking, well, if they're doing it Yeah. maybe I should do it. Um our friend Andre Jik got I think he spent $15,000 on a Spider-Man NFT. It's worth $100,000 now a few weeks later. And and it's worth in the sense that he's sold it for that or like how do you how do you value this thing? What other Spider-Man NFTs have sold [laughter] for us. So, it's like same with the cars. Like, if you bought the car, well, another Ford GT sold at this, so that makes mine worth that now. Interesting. And they're similar enough that you can value them in that way. Yes. Huh. Yeah. So, within a few weeks, 15 to 100. And I'm thinking, well, you know, if he's doing that in a few weeks, maybe, you know, maybe I should buy one, you know? Maybe I try a Spider-Man. Dumping six grand in the market tomorrow. Or maybe you pick up another Exactly. But, when you start having these thoughts, usually that's the time where it's a terrible time to buy. Exactly. But, I wouldn't have bought it for 15 to begin with. This is one of the reasons though why I think that people should largely invest in what they know and why I've put up more money in cars than I should, but it's worked out because I know. I knew what cars were going to go up in my opinion. I knew I was the this is smart. This is what's going to be good and it has worked out. It has worked out handsomely. And if you do the NFT thing because other people are doing it, maybe you're not as sophisticated. Yes. No, I would agree with that. If you didn't get the GT, what would you have gotten? Um I really back then, that's all I wanted. I don't know why. The whole thing's weird. I don't know why I have that I'm not like a super car guy. Mhm. Like, I don't get into cars like that. Um but, I love that one. Um I don't know what I would have gotten. I wasn't looking to just spend a ton of money. I just thought it would be cool and I didn't think I'd have it long. And it's been now almost 4 years and I'm not selling. Um but, I there's other cars that I kind of want or wanted before things went crazy and um I really wanted a Porsche Carrera GT. Yeah. And I screwed that up, I think. Um but, I couldn't have afford There was no point where I could have comfortably afforded it. When I when I was close enough, I maybe could have bought a three or $400,000 car comfortably and they were still 700. And I guess I should have stretched because now they're two. Yeah. What do you mean by you're not a super car guy? like I like weird car Like, I have this convertible G Wagon. I have this Audi station wagon that's like kind of got a weird backstory. I don't like drive like McLarens. When I see that, I think like that's so gauche. Like, I don't I wouldn't It's loud and it shouts to everybody. I don't I like them very very like subtle and understated when it comes to like showing I really I like feel like a New Englander when it comes to like showing off. I like don't do that. I like don't believe in like huge displays of wealth and all that stuff. It's not my thing. And so, it's it's a very odd thing for me to have a super car because like my It doesn't match my personality. But, that car is special. What would it be in a car that would appeal to you? Um like what would I get? What Yeah, like what in a car appeals to you rather like to buy iconic I really like to buy cars that I view as iconic or as like very special and unusual. Um this The Audi station wagon is iconic because it was the first Audi RS car, which has become this like vaunted brand and because also it was built by Porsche in Porsche's factory and those are cool things. And that sort of like geekiness appeals to me. I don't like the cars where you're at the gas station and a dude in a minivan walks up and says, "Do you want to trade?" Like, those aren't my cars. [laughter] I like the cars where I'm driving that Audi and like one I've owned that car 18 months and one guy has come up to me and be like, "Holy crap, I cannot believe this is here." And that is the kind of conversation I'll have for an hour on the side of the road. person know who you were or were they Yeah. thing because like I really just want to And it was fine. He still just wanted to talk about the car, which was cool. But, like I would love I I I once a year I get a conversation about cars where the person has no clue who I am and I savor the hell out [laughter] of It's a it's a fun one to have to like hear perspectives where you're where they're not changed by the fact that they know who they're talking to. Yeah. But Yeah. That's interesting about the want to trade. I I've gotten that before. Yeah. What do you want to trade? What kind of gas mileage do you get? How fast have you had it? Yeah. I just want to be like And I answer I'm very polite, but at the same time I'm thinking you're not a car enthusiast and I didn't buy this car to like have these conversations. Like, I bought it cuz I'm really into it. And so, like the cars that I'm that I'm really into, it's fun to have conversations other people who are into it. That's interesting. See, I've I cuz I rarely take out the GT and it's been a while since I've driven the Lotus. But, uh I I it's been so long since someone says, "How fast have you taken it?" Yeah. But, now I remember that was one of the most common questions and people were disappointed when I said the speed limit. And and that was kind of the the the real answer. Well, cuz I don't I I get so worked up about speeding. I just get nervous and I'm like, is it worth the ticket? No. [laughter] I I I have just as much fun at 75 as I imagine I would have at 130. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. I just I God, I those are tough ones and and they're so cliché. I hate any sort of cliché conversation. I can't do those. It's not my thing. And so, that those are hard. And that car inspires it and that's the thing I don't like about it. And I don't like that people are taking camera phones. Honestly, truthfully, truthfully, truthfully, when I bought that car, I thought it would be kind of subtle. It's a Ford. It's dark colored. I didn't realize what would happen, which is people go nuts. And especially because that car has its iconic status has increased in the last few years in part because of the movie and in part because the values have gone up and people kind of are aware of that. And the new one came out, which I think helped it, too. And and so, it's the reaction is wild taking that car out. People really go crazy. What do you think of the new one selling for a million dollars? Cuz they cuz what were they selling for? And the MSRP is 500, 550? you got. Like, 600. to 650 depending on the version. Got it. And all of them sell there's a floor of a million dollars to buy that car. Um I think people are buying it because it's very scarce and it's very special and that they know that. I don't think it's to be diplomatic, I don't think it's a better car than ours. I love ours. It's a stick. It's got way more room. The Ford dealers will work on it. People will work on it. The new Ford GT, you know who's the happiest about new Ford GTs right now? It's Ford because they're running out of warranty and Ford doesn't have to put up with this crap anymore. Those cars are incredibly complex. They were built in a very complex factory in very in a very complex way and I don't want to be stuck with that thing in 10 years. And also, it's like a race car. Have you been in one of those? It's tight and it's you're sitting this This is the space you have between the dude next to you. It's a couple inches and it's like tight and it's loud and it's rough and it's not like ours. Ours are like a drivable super car, which is the coolest thing about it. Like you said, it's Ford. It's a The new one isn't like that. And so, I don't know. People are spending the million dollars not to drive them. It's not for that. It's not because it offers some amazing experience you can't get somewhere else. Ford has said they benchmarked the McLaren 675LT when they made the car. That's not that valuable of a car. It The the special thing about that car is how rare it is. And I just million bucks a lot. Do you think the floor is going to stay at a million? Yeah. I think the car is The car is desirable, but I don't think it's insane. It's not a Carrera GT. It's not like a true icon car. When you look at the performance numbers and everything, I don't think it's going to be I don't think it's going to go down as like a five, 10 million dollar car one day. Um and I think serviceability is going to be a big part of that, honestly. Got it. What cars do you think will become a car like the Carrera GT today? Cuz I think we we missed the Lexus LFA. When those were selling for like 350 LFA I think is the most overrated car. Really? This is a this is a very controversial car. Uh-huh. Okay. [laughter] It's an automatic Lexus. The transmission is bad and I don't think the car looks that good. And I swear to God I swear to God that if you didn't know that it was worth 600 grand and you saw one, like if my wife saw one Yeah, you would have no clue. You'd be like, this is just a car. The LC, which is Lexus's current sports car sporty car, 70, 80 grand, whatever, looks better. The LFA has a bad transmission. It has average looks and I think it just went up like everything went up and people think it sounds good and they know it's rare. And everything rare is expensive. But, I think that's the most overvalued car. So, what is going to go up? All right. [laughter] I don't know. I It's an interesting question. I mean, it's really tough to figure that out. I think the Ford GTs still have a little bit of a ways to go. I think Lamborghini Murciélagos, especially certain versions of them, are going to go up. The SV. The SVs, yeah. But, even just the regular LP640s, I think. Um Just some cars, it's just it's tough to know, of course. But, anything that's special now will only become more and more special. And and the cool thing that the Ford GT has and the Carrera GT has is being an analog manual transmission car, you didn't know at the time, but that went that went away. And I think as hybrids and electric cars start to show up, even just having a gas engine will be sort of thought of like a manual transmission. What other cars do you find overvalued or overhyped? Oh, yeah, we want to dig into this. The LFA the LFA Nürburgring Edition, the LFA Track and the [laughter] Um I like the LFA. I just it's 600 or whatever, it's insane. You know, Lexus, when that car came out, Lexus hired a full-time employee to go around the country trying to get people to buy it. They took it to dealers. He took it to events. Wow. Desperate. They were desperate. When that car came out, Lexus would only let you lease it because they didn't want people to buy it and flip it and make money. So, you could only lease it. And then after a while, they would let you buy it. And it was laughable because nobody was speculating on that car. They were 500 sticker. They were worth instantly 250. Nobody gave And anyway, now here we are and they're way more expensive now and they shouldn't be. Um other cars that I think are overvalued I think new Ford GT, frankly, is a little overvalued. just overrated. Like, people make them up to be something better than what they are. That's a good question. I think I don't know. I'd have to think about that. If you look at virtually every exotic car, every special car that was passed up at its time. I had a whole list of these the other day with my friends that I was kind of going through that I found interesting. Actually, a good example is the prior NSX. The last generation NSX lasted all the way through 2005. By the end, no one wanted them. They were sitting in showrooms. It was a disaster. And now those ones are the most desirable and they are selling for huge [snorts] money. Over $200,000. That car, they had trouble selling them in '06. '05 they sold them to whoever's buying them. But by '06 people a lot of money for a Ford. People were Nobody really wanted them. They had to cut production earlier. Carrera GT was the same way. They cut production of that car early, which is insane to imagine now. And here we are. And I think there's a lot of these. But in terms of other overvalued cars and overhyped cars, the best example is air-cooled Porsches. There's no question. '80s and '90s Porsches. People are now paying 100 grand for like a regular one. It's a joke. Car's not Car's just not that great. It It's not reliable. Uh it's not particularly exciting. There's a million of them. There you You can't go to a car show without seeing 25 air-cooled Porsches. They've all been well preserved. They're just not I don't think they're that special and I think that some of these prices are just stupid. People Whenever Whenever a our car sells, you know, a two-mile Honda Civic sells for big money in '80s one, people freak out. How could someone pay for 30 grand for a Honda Civic? No way. I'm freaking out like how could someone pay 100 for an '80s regular '80s 911. Like that's crazy to me. Talk about I'd rather buy an NFT. Oh, [laughter] and that and that says a lot. Yeah. Geez. What else What are there Is the Ford GT your only special car? No, so I have a Lotus Evora. Oh, you have Oh, really? Okay. Yeah, yeah. I've I've yet to Actually, this first time I've mentioned it, maybe. I think we showed it off on the uh the family before. Graham Stephan After Hours. Barely. I've I've Well, we could keep this in there. But uh I haven't told anybody about buying this car cuz I didn't want to make a deal of it. And I don't want to get cuz the thing is it's chrome purple. I bought it so I bought it from our friend Anthony, who's the the poker guy. And he didn't have enough room in his garage for his cars. So, he was like, "Can I park this in your garage?" I I didn't mind. And it sat there for months. And he was like, "Do you want to buy it?" And he offered it to me at a price where it was like I would be stupid for turning it down. He's like, "Either I'm going to turn it into I'm just going to basically just give it into the dealer or whatever. They're going to give me this price, but if you give me this, uh I'll sell it to you." It's like, "I may as well do it." I've had so much fun with that car. Yeah. Do you feel as though your finances are scrutinized extra by people? Like if you were to announce that you got a Yeah. See, people don't understand. If If they And I don't want to say how much I paid for it, but it was at a price where it's like it would be impossible to lose money on this car. I'm making money if I were to sell it, but I wouldn't sell it. Right. But it's just the the the the color, the aggression of the car, the orange calipers and the whole thing. It's just yes. People would immediately think that's a waste of money. Right. So, do you have Do you feel like you have some anxiety about showing things like that? Like do you have other stuff that you don't show people because you don't want I don't talk about prices of certain things. Like the piano is something I could justify. So So, I got this piano. It was $80,000 new in 1980. Okay. So, it was like this crazy piano. I paid $16,000 for it used. But it's the pianos are like cars. Like Right. certain ones will either appreciate in value or they stay the same. This is a piano that's 16. I could sell it for 16. I could sell it maybe 17. Uh but certain stuff like that people be like, "You spent so much money on a piano." But it's this It's like a savings account. So, everything I buy is a savings account. There's there's the only one thing that I've spent money on that loses money is the aquarium. That's the one thing. That's my one thing. Yeah. I keep it to yourself. I feel the same way. I don't buy anything unless I feel like it's either going to stay the same or make money. I've made an exception for my normal everyday car just cuz I knew I'd be putting a lot of miles on it and I didn't think I could get away with it. And plus I also feel like having like a lot of safety features and stuff is really important. So, I want to buy a new car. Yeah. Or a pretty new car. But I agree. I generally would prefer to do that. But there's You're not holding any secrets out here where you're like, Oh, you know what? There's one thing I didn't Well, I didn't I Well, I guess we did it on the Stefamily. Usually when I when I mean like talking about is like usually a main channel sort of thing. But I bought a a Patek Philippe a watch. And uh I thought, you know, it was a big milestone kind of watch for me and but it was a good value. Yeah. And that's a watch that uh uh I got at a price uh Federico hooked it up from Federico Talks Watches. He gave me his like rock bottom price. It's like not a wholesale price, but you know, but I didn't want to be like, "Hey guys, I got this watch." Right. So, I Oh, you know what? I did hide the the house I bought for a while. Yeah. Uh but that was I closed on it a month and a half before COVID hit and I was planning to do a house tour and I thought it would be in really bad taste Yeah, yeah, yeah. to be like, "Hey guys, just bought this new house." Everything is shut down. You don't worry about privacy? No. You don't worry is people going to show up and start breaking in and kill you? Knock on wood. No. I mean, Nothing's ever happened. No. Nothing's ever happened until it does. Gosh. I mean, here's the thing is that I First of all, we have cameras everywhere. So, if you if you approach like everything's being recorded everywhere. So, it's impossible that someone can show up and we not have it on camera. But everyone that I've met and first of all, no one's shown up. But everyone One person. But he was a neighbor. No. Which one? Well, it was it was someone that was looking at like the model homes and I like was getting out of the car and I think that they kind of came probably with some ulterior motive like, you know, seeing if they could see us in the front yard. He was like, "Hey Jack." As I was like walking into the house. He just said hello. Yeah. Um I would have been anything bad. It was like a kid and his mom. It was like totally Right. But what if it is somebody? It's a good I've never had a bad experience. So So, the one person that did show up, they knocked on the front door. And the guy pulled [snorts] up in a McLaren. And uh he wanted to introduce himself because he lived down the street. And like I prefer nobody knock on the door. Yeah. Um but because he lived down the street, I've made an exception for neighbors as well. I could justify it, but I didn't like it because it wasn't like I wanted to introduce myself as a neighbor. It was "Hey, I saw you bought the house." And you know, it wasn't a neighborly Sorry, he's not not doing this with all the neighbors. But still he's Just with me. They are and so you want to be friendly and I could justify it. I could He didn't drive in from Glendale to No. Right. No. But everyone that I've met otherwise has been so nice and it's You don't know who's watching. There's crazy people. finance. It's and it's weird because But that's part That's increases it because you're saying, "Oh, I have this much money. I have this much in this and that." The people that First of all, the people that watch the channel know that the things I have very few things of value. Almost I'm so frugal in so many aspects. They're not going Except that piano. They're not Good luck [laughter] if you're trying to steal a seven-foot grand piano. I mean, of all things to do. And you And we have cameras on the inside, too. So, like everything would be would be recorded. But uh I mean, people know how frugal I am. The aquarium's worth more than than anything else I have. No one's stealing an aquarium or it's going in and like taking a piece of coral. Um but everyone in finance has been so nice. I think it's a it's a more mature audience. They understand the aspects of like saving money. And it's different because I was talking with uh James about this, Stradman. And he was saying how often he'd have people show up to his front door. of every video in front of his house. I mean, [laughter] at some point you're just kind of asking for like something to happen. Like it's one thing to be like insane and it's when you're doing that and you're not living in a gated community, it's just kind of like the way it's going to go. Right. Well, the Ve- Vegas is gated um and so is the place in LA. So, I mean, both of them are gated, but um I'm not so much worried about it. But you're you're right. I probably should be like I probably should be more careful. Right. You never I've I've had nothing but good experiences. Yeah. Same. I've had, you know, countless thousands of people come to me and every single interaction has been nice. But you just never quite know, you know? Yes. You know? Have you ever had anybody not be great when they meet you randomly? No. Have we? No, I don't think so. Everyone's been really good. Yeah. The only thing that would be an issue, but it's not even that big of an issue, is sometimes they uh take a lot of time. Yeah. So, it's not Oh, yeah. you know, I really appreciate what you're doing." They'll be there for like, you know, 10, [snorts] 15 minutes. They keep going. 20. Like they just kind of push it. people are the ones who let you decide. Cuz sometimes I got 10 minutes. And I'm like, Or they say something interesting about like I have a cool car or some Huh? Okay, I want to hear more about that. But sometimes it's like If it's just in passing and then it kind of takes, you know, you're on or something like that. You can never uh really be in a hurry when you're just kind of walking around in public. Right, right. But everyone has really good intentions. And sometimes it's like, you know, even if they do take a lot of time and I'm like I kind of I try to make myself like I'm going to walk this way now and they'll kind of walk with you and The thing that I always think about is like this is a highlight for them of their day. And And uh the other day I was like I Sometimes when you're not in a good mood, it's really tough. If someone comes up to you and you like just want to go to the grocery store and buy something and like go home and just like sit. You're like sad or whatever. That's when it's hardest cuz you got to like kind of put on a show for them cuz this is a special thing for them. And that's like Now those are the worst ones. Yeah. And that happens sometimes, but You know, how often do you get seen in like the GT? Like what What's the reaction you get in this? Um I would flip. If I saw you on the freeway First of all, I'd see a GT and I'd be like, "Oh my that that that mirror." I'd lose it. I I maybe made a mistake being too open about the cars cuz people now know. It's not just like, "Oh wow, I'm seeing a convertible G Wagon." It's like, "Oh, that's Doug." And I know and some people follow you and I don't love that cuz I don't know how that's going to turn out and where I'm going to stop. I don't really want people to follow me home or whatever. um But yeah, the people recognize me in the car is pretty often. With the GT that itself expire inspires so much of reaction that it's hard to know is it me or is it the car? Yeah. But the other cars, yeah, people people know and they get excited and I don't know you you just hope they don't crash when they're driving trying to take a picture. Yeah, yeah. Which sometimes a little sketchy. It does seem like the car audience is so much bigger though. Yeah. With finance it's like if you're if you're into saving money you kind of know of the channel or you've seen a few videos. it's a more mature audience like you said. My audience tends to be a little more mature than most car people because I'm doing reviews. Stradman is out there like vlogging his life and I think that that incites he gets a he has a huge audience but I think that to some extent there's just people kind of watching for entertainment whatever. A lot more of my viewers are like just people looking for a car. I would say the difference with James is that people watch him for his personality. Yeah. And that's the big selling point. I personally like and I want I watch his videos. I don't care what car he buys. I think Yeah, that's cool. Cuz it's cool to hear him talk about it. It's just a backdrop prop for him. But I think people watch him for him. I think it even if it weren't cars if it were bicycles he would have the same sort of attraction and people feel like they know him from those videos because he's just so much of himself. Yeah, I think that that's true. And I think doing car reviews it's a little bit less like that. People are just here they need to get a car. And so it's I'm not that concerned. People are generally relatively mature and that kind of thing. But you just you open yourself up to like the whole sale public. [laughter] And there's something that's like Yeah. But I'm always just worried. I guess my my biggest concern is sometimes we'll we'll have a very private conversation and the person next to us will be listening and and I remember having it once where where I I never thought of it as an issue but I was having a talk with somebody else who worked for somebody else and it was a very private conversation. And and after he got up or he he was leaving and the lady next to us listened to the entire thing and she's not to me to the other guy. By the way, I I want to say I love your work. I don't want to bother you guys cuz I knew you're in a conversation but like I really enjoy it. I just want to say hi. But I was like wow like what did this person I mean it was nothing bad just private. That's all. more careful. It is interesting. You can't yell at the Comcast people on the you know, you never know who knows you and who might you know, and so you can you have you have to be like super at any given moment you have to assume that whatever you say might go viral. [laughter] Yeah, I want to yeah, I do want to mention this but I don't want to give enough details cuz I know this person's watching. But I had a uh I got something and the other person I I was not happy with the other person. And I thought about like leaving a bad review or something because I I I thought this I I don't want to say what it was but I wasn't happy with it. At [snorts] the end uh I got the I'm a huge fan of your channel. I watch all the videos. Mean a lot to me if I could just get a picture. Yeah. Like anything. And then I was like oh yeah, no absolutely but I'm so glad that I was just like you know, bit my tongue and Yep. Yeah. Yep, it's exactly right. I did my wife and I went on our honeymoon we went to New Zealand and we did a glacier a helicopter to a glacier to do an ice hike. And the dude gives us the whole tour of the glacier and it was really cool one of the coolest things I've ever done. Land on the glacier in the helicopter and we walk we do all the stuff and we have the little ice shoes and everything. And it was like 2 hours and at the very end of it the dude was like by the way, I'm like a I'm I didn't want to say anything but I'm a huge fan. Yeah. And I was like I'm so glad that I was like nice and you know Yeah. [laughter] You never know. Yeah, it makes it worse to find out after the fact. I'd rather just know up front. [laughter] I would much rather know up front and that's like you know, Uber drivers or Cuz he knew that if he had said something maybe the conversation turns to cars and my wife is there and she just wants to see the mount you know, the glacier and like I get it. And so that was the cool way to do it but at the same time it puts a lot of pressure on you like [laughter] What did I do? Gosh. I'm curious about income sources. Yeah. Um how would you say they're broken down in your channel cuz I noticed I don't see any sponsorships. Yeah. My channel's an interesting thing because I feel like as a car reviewer I feel like I'm more of a journalist than a entertainer and so I don't feel too comfortable doing sponsorships. Um because I start to feel like if you're getting paid then your objectivity gets questioned and the quality the truth what you say your veracity is just all kind of getting questioned. I've always wondered if that was the right move cuz all everybody else does sponsorships but I I kind of feel like the numbers have proved me right. Like the fact that my channel has always stayed so big and that people are always watching and have always believed that I'm truthful and I'm like the guy they can trust. I think that over time the numbers have proved me right that like I was right not to do sponsors. I think. Um I do a few here and there but it's really rare and for that reason. I'll tell you from our experience well I Jack I'll actually let you answer this one. Or were you about to say something? I was just going to ask if car makes have ever paid you or offered to pay you to um do a review. Yeah. This is one of my like biggest annoyance topics about the car journalist industry. I don't know if you guys know how car reviews are done. But the way a car review is done the automaker sends you an email says hey guess what? We're going to we're launching a new car. Subaru Legacy I'll give you as an example. Um and the way it's going to work is you can fly out with your spouse to Big Sur to this beautiful hotel property you get your own uh little hut villa thing on this beautiful hotel. You can use the spa the while we're doing the product briefing your wife spouse can use the spa can get a massage can enjoy the property. Then you go drive the car in this beautiful drive down Highway 1. You park you park at the end of the day. We feed you a fantastic dinner. And then we look forward to your objective review. And by the way, the automaker [laughter] paid for all of this. And um not only do I not accept literal cash from the automakers but I am the only car reviewer currently in existence who doesn't take those trips. So they reach out and they say hey we're doing this Big Sur thing and I say to them great. I'm going to I'm going to book a room at the Comfort Inn in Paso Robles and you tell me when I have to be at the at the event to drive the car and I'll be at the event. I don't get dinner paid. I don't get flights paid. I don't get hotels paid. And I really think that that's the correct way to do it and none of my rivals do that. Now they will sit there and say we don't take money from automakers but you kind of do because that trip to Big Sur is kind of an experience that's it's not free. Like they didn't pay you for your you didn't get you that room to have an objective review of the car. They got you that room because they wanted to butter you up so you would say these things. And so directly no an automaker has never offered to pay me and I've never taken payment but indirectly I think they're all paid and you should look very skeptically when you see [laughter] car reviews especially when car reviews all go up on the same day and you notice that all the pictures are in the same place. That's because they all went to some five-star hotel in some special place and got some crazy perks to give an objective review of the car and it ain't an objective at all. Ever. Gosh. That reminds us of the channel. We've received so many requests from people who want to pay to be featured. Yeah. And some of them I got to say are so tempting Yeah. because it's a lot of money. Yeah. But we've never done it. Because don't you think your audience like I feel like that's that's you the the a lot of money comes in that day but long-term your audience is like he's getting paid. Yeah. Well, I just like saying we've never paid we've never been paid to have a guest on and and you can't say that if one of them even if you do 500 episodes if one was paid then you can't say we've never done that. Yeah. And you can maintain this air of like being kind of high and mighty. And I'm kind of holier than thou about this but I can be because I've never take it I've never done this. And that gives me I think an objectivity that a lot of my rivals don't have and I think it's an objectivity that a lot of the viewers appreciate and I suspect the same is true for you. But I do think for sponsorships I don't think anybody would mind. Yeah, I probably need to do more and I've been thinking about that this year. And I would just be careful about the sponsors you pick. Yeah. Not cars not car brands. Right. But I think if you did a good sponsorship with a great brand um to integrate. right. I would like to do more with especially products that I like believe in and that I know are good. Yeah. So I think you could do that really well. Even what it was the Raycon headphones or something like that. Audible? Yeah or Audible. Something that you could do you know, if you if you want to listen to an audiobook and you want to have a headphone and when you're driving. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's probably true. I probably should do more and I think I should do more in that space. And honestly even just within the last few weeks I've reached out to a couple people that I hadn't in the past asking about that. I would pursue it. I think for the amount of value that you provide in a video a 20 25 minute long video I think halfway through having a sponsor no one would bat an eye. Yeah. Especially cuz everyone else literally everyone else does it. It's gotten so common. The other thing is you could negotiate because you have so much leverage to put it at the very end of the video. Where you know, you'll get paid half but It's there and it's It's there. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. I didn't know it was even on the table. Yeah, so Drew anything with a sponsor company. Of course but I didn't think a sponsor would even want like go for that. Yes. Drew Gooden always does it. Yeah, he's he's another channel because if he did integrations in the middle it'll kind of throw off the flow of the video and that's my biggest thing. I don't mind doing sponsors now. My biggest worry is will it throw off the flow of the video? If it will, I won't do a sponsor because I'm I care more about the video itself. But if it won't, if there's no harm in it, then then I'd I'd like to do them. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. And automotive is rife with this. I mean, this is a big deal in automotive because like it's not quite the same as finance, but our viewers are also pretty wealthy, pretty in the world of buying stuff. Obviously, if you're watching car reviews, you probably have some money, etc. It's not like, you know, some stupid vlog about whatever. Um and so the sponsors pay pretty well and that kind of thing. Yeah. I would do that. I think you would be shocked Yeah. Yeah. when you look when you take into account sponsors. Yeah. Yeah, that's probably true. Like I thought here the ad revenue was was the main, you know, creme de la creme, but as you as you begin expanding, you realize it's only a portion of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But how is your income broken down in the sense of like ad revenue, Cars & Bids? Could you talk like a percentage? Um I'm not pulling much money out of Cars & Bids yet. Um so as a result, YouTube ad revenue is like the absolute primary driver. Almost all of my income comes from that and it has for a long time. Um now part of the reason that I'm not pulling money out of Cars & Bids yet is because it's still growing and we're trying to reinvest and that sort of thing and I could if I wanted to, but and I see that as hopefully a long-term a more long-term like the income play like we've discussed. Um but yeah, I mean, ad revenue is is just been it's been fantastic. It's been consistent and that's been a that's like my huge driver. Yeah. Have you thought about offering anything other than Cars & Bids? Like maybe something you're more involved in, whether it be like a I don't know. For for us, we have like programs. Do a course. Yeah. Is there something like that Yeah, I thought about it and I think that's probably a future thing. Honestly, the thing about Cars & Bids is like right now it's my thing and I'm doing it, but I think [snorts] it's almost you're almost at that point like with your kid learning how to ride a bike where you kind of can push it and let it kind of do its thing without quite as much of my involvement. And so then the question is what do you do next? Now what I've been telling everybody is I don't want to do any more of this crap. [laughter] It's a lot of work. Starting the channel and getting to where I got has been a lot of work and then launching this business was a lot of work. And so I think I do want to do something like yeah, like that or like a podcast where it's it's not like building a business quite necessarily. I don't want to I'm good. Like I'm just good. You know what I would do? Doug DeMuro 2, the second channel, more Doug DeMuro. I'd start posting on there weekly with sponsors. Yeah. That's what I would do. Yeah. That way the main channel stays intact. You you keep all of that uh to yourself. Yeah. But I think the more Doug DeMuro. Yeah, that might make sense. That might make sense. I took all the more Doug videos not off, but since about March, I've been posting the more Doug videos on my main channel on Sundays. Maybe it makes sense to go back and do sponsors on the other. I like the sit-down talks in your garage. Same. I love them too and they're easy. Yes. But I think you have to be a certain type of like interested person to like appreciate them. They certainly don't get as many views. you have enough interested people to yeah. Surprisingly. Yeah. Like I can't believe how many interested audience is my entire main channel on an average video is your interested audience. It's nuts because I'm looking at the video the views on your second channel, they're really really really high. They're good. So that's what I would do. even better. So I moved those I started doing those videos last March on my main channel on Sundays and they're even better now. Yeah. And it's like wow. Cuz I'm surprised at some of the videos that you post on. I would I would think this is main channel worthy, but it's like no, I was like that. Yeah. In retrospect, I wish that I had done some things a little differently. one. I was like, how is that on there? channel was I was always feeling like if I deviated at all on the main channel, that it would screw up my algorithm on the main channel. And over time, I have discovered that that the algorithm is a little bit more sophisticated than that. And you can post a stupid video on a Sunday that only gets a couple hundred thousand views and then go back to getting a million views on Tuesdays and Thursdays where I normally post and it actually is capable of handling that. I don't think it always was. I have a theory that it wasn't at some point. I have a theory based on some other people's uh performance that they started posting some kind of second-rate stuff and it took sort of slid the whole channel. But I think now it's capable of realizing, okay, Sundays he posts, it's less good. That's what it means it's going to hurt your channel. experience uh is always the YouTube algorithm is forgiving of two bad videos in a row. That's that's it. So if I have one bad video, it's like, okay, the pressure's on. I have one more mess If I mess up that second video, if the third is not a banger, it takes months to recover from that. That that's been my experience. you know, I will tell you though one one benefit I have with car reviews is at least once or twice a month I can get an insane video because new cars come out to a level. So like Lucid Air, Rivian, I knew those videos would blow up. They did blow up. And you can be pretty strategic about where you can put them. If you have a couple bad videos, three or four even, you can put a Rivian up next and everything is all smoothed over at that point. And you probably don't have quite the same ability to like snap your fingers and say, this is going to blow up and I just It is interesting, but one good video I've noticed YouTube puts you in a tier and you'll you'll get views within a certain range. Yeah. And you need one video that blows those metrics that will boost you into the next tier. Yeah. And then that next video afterwards is going to be pushed in that tier. But if you're not able to sustain that on your own, then you get boosted you get dropped back down your you know, back to the average. Like I don't know any of the other car YouTubers really except the text. They all kind of view me as like the grandfather of car YouTube and so they all kind of reach out for advice periodically. But like I don't generally have like other people who are in the YouTube space. Partially because I find a lot of other YouTubers to be kind of difficult to deal with. That's interesting cuz that's all who we talk like every single one of my friends, everyone who I see on a like on a daily basis is another YouTuber. And almost all of them are in the finance space. I live next door to Jeremy who's another financial YouTuber. I could imagine being more cuz you're you're starting from kind of a higher baseline, but like some of my car YouTube colleagues, I don't know how much of this you watch. There's some interesting characters out there. Yeah. Some unusual guys. But but see for us, this is the same thing as being like, you know, introduce hey, what's your net worth? Yeah, what do you make last month? Oh yeah, how many high Oh yeah, you should fire some people. You should get that cost down. Margins are too thin. Cuz that's what we talk about. So it's interesting to to see other people's like because to me it's normal. All of us like a few weeks ago were like, hey, is your ad revenue down 30% this month? Yeah, mine too. Let me text a few more people and find out. Yeah, theirs is down as well. Something's going on. So all of us are in it. Interesting. Yeah. And we all compare analytics. You know, I wonder how long have you been doing it? 5 years. I've got so much past analytics that like when the ad rates go down a little for the seasonally or whatever, I'm not all that surprised. I'm I'm not I don't really get that surprised anymore for that sort of thing. this January is substantially worse than every other January drop. Interesting. Have you noticed that? No, actually surprisingly, this was my best January ever. Is that because No, but is that because ad revenue is up or is that because The ad rate was not as high as I thought it would be. For some reason, the views were way up and so Yes. So I'm talking about ad rate. So when you look at the CPM, I'm not sure what the what that is. year for my January was about the same as last year, which is unusual because in all prior years, almost every month over month, it's always been improving. And so I I actually have started in my mind wondering like have we hit a Are we at a point That's interesting. Yeah, because everyone that I've talked to says it's down 20 to 30%. Over last January? Uh no, this is the biggest drop we've ever seen from December to January. okay. Yeah. And that includes other other uh channels. But you're the first one. Yeah. a little bit I had a big drop from December. I always do. I don't really look at December versus January though because I don't really find it relevant since they're so different. And I also I kind of goose December. I have this thing called Dougcember where I put up insane content. I like start shooting it in June and I like put up insane content specifically in December because I know the rate's going to be so high. So I tend to make 20 I I tend to make December's double for me. I make double the money on an average other month in December. And so December's like a really big deal for me. So like Lucid Air, Rivian, the Mercedes EQS has been a big deal. A lot of like really big cars blow up. Yeah. I love that blew up. And that was I put that up Black Friday. I have no [laughter] shame. I have no shame in admitting what I did there. That's a big day and it did well. How many mid-rolls do you put in a video? a bunch. [laughter] Three, I think four, something like that. Oh, you could do more than that. I probably could. I probably could, but I there's one at the start and at the end, too. Yes. So, you know, Yeah. The only time I I see I don't mind mid-rolls on the phone. I do mind them on the TV. That's the only time when I'm watching a video on the TV cuz it's hard to like yeah, you got to find the remote and click it off. No, and people get upset and annoyed. Although my view is like get premium. It is insane to me that people will spend as much time complaining as they do when whatever premium costs like $11 a month or something. Like come Like come on. I I got premium I hadn't had premium for years. It never even occurred to me for some reason. And one of my friends was like, you don't have premium? And I got it like 6 months ago and I haven't seen an ad since. And people are like, I have this ad blocker and that ad blocker and I do this and that. It's like just pay the money. It's so I do that to download videos and then you could also close your phone and listen to the video. And that's so important. best. So that's why I pay for a period for premium. Yeah, yeah. So. But that is interesting. I No, January so far is January was fine, okay. But it's always a but it's always a significantly enhanced drop for me because I like really goose November, December and because I actually intentionally thus put up videos I know aren't going to do as well in January. Why burn good videos when the ad rate is so bad? I agree. But those some of my January videos are some of my favorites because it's like the weird stuff that I can't do when the ad rates are good cuz it won't get enough views. So actually my January February content tends to be like some of the more fun videos. But see, the sponsorships are good because it's it's more stable. Yeah. Sometimes you'll sign a a year-long contract. And so, your December is going to be the same as January as the same as June. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. And it's just it's that stability that I really appreciate. Yeah, that makes sense. And what do you think you could work on that could make your videos better? And how do you plan on expanding that? You think so? No, I don't know. I I probably I will do some sponsors. But other than that, like I don't know. It's tough when you're Like you look at all the other car review channels. Like I'm still number one. I'm ahead of them all. I don't know like how else to grow this dramatically other than kind of what I've been doing. So I'm going to tell you the two, honestly, and we just talked about them. I think sponsors. I think if you sprinkle them in every now and then Yeah. I think all you need is three good brands Yeah. that you could work with consistently and you have three every month with the same brands and your audience is going to appreciate the consistency. Yeah. Cuz they know you're not going to be promoting something you know, some crappy product or whatever. It's a good product and you could charge a premium cuz you don't do it. Yeah. You could use that. I think also shorts. I've experimented with shorts now. The short audience is totally different Really? from the long-form audience. And I I was not expecting that. But every time I posted shorts, you see like the new viewers and returning viewers. The new viewers spikes way higher than the return. Huh, interesting. Yeah, so it's getting pushed to a new audience. And I think for 60 seconds you could come up with the best quirks and features sure. And I think it would compliment It does it you don't see the shorts as have the thing The reason I haven't done it is because I'm worried that doing something like that has a negative effect on the the other videos. Yes, I'm still testing it out. From what I've seen, the shorts have no impact on main channel like on the normal videos. to be true in order to for people to justify why to do that. if anything YouTube would be wanting people to post shorts on there. the same thing. I'm like if I post a short is this going to affect my click-through rate? Are they are you know, if someone skims past that, does that screw everything up? Or is the watch time going to mess it? Now um Interesting. So, from what I've seen about new features. Yeah. I would try it, be cautious about it. I'm still testing it out myself, but I've had nothing but a positive experience. The one thing I have noticed, which is interesting, is that I had one short that was doing really really really well. And I thought, well, it's been a week since I posted a a short. I'm going to post a new short now. The new short posted the previous one completely cut off that very minute. Interesting. So, I saw the views basically drop and the other short went up. Okay. But the new short wasn't doing as well as the previous one. you would just not So, YouTube is more likely to push a new short than an old one. Even if the old one is more Even if the old one's better. And if the new one's better, YouTube I think analyzes that one as not being the newest, so it's not going to promote the new one because it's not good even though the old one is better. Yeah. So, I don't I I think there's still something they're working around there. Interesting. We've also seen it in the past where YouTube has an interest in pushing out like their their newer features such as the community post. When you do that, like remember how that would blow up your channel? Right. Oh yeah, the polls. Exactly. [laughter] But it's the same as what I've noticed with a with a long-form video. When I post a new video that takes priority for the for the recommended. Yeah. So, I think same thing with shorts, but the two are separate at least. I would do it. good to know. Yeah. So, how is your time allocated? And walk us through very briefly on average day in the life of Doug DeMuro. Um it depends on whether I'm like filming that day or not. If I'm filming, that's like a lot of the day. I would say the majority of the day. Um like wake up, go Sometimes I'm driving 2 3 hours up to LA, film a video, drive 2 3 hours home. It's kind of a disaster. Um when I'm not doing that, a lot of the time is spent on Cars and Bids. I do a lot of the um reserve setting on Cars and Bids, which is interesting. You cuz you can imagine people have different opinions about the value of their cars. We do it. Sometimes it gets kind of funny. Um and I just do a lot of supporting of my team there. I edit every single listing in the end. I like have an editor who does it, but I like give it one final look over and then I write my little take on each one. So, that takes some time. Um so, a day can kind of depend It can kind of depend on exactly what's being done that day. Sometimes my entire day is filming and I don't I can't look at a thing on Cars and Bids and I trust my staff does it. And sometimes it's like a purely Cars and Bids day where I don't have any real videoing to do. And where do When do you generally start working and when do you cut it off? Um I like wake up at 5:30 or 6:00 now and I can't seem to stop that. I've came from the East Coast and I used to wake up at 9:00 and I moved with the time difference annoyingly. Um and so, I start working almost right away. I'm really fresh in the morning. I can do stuff really really well in the morning. I hate afternoons more than anything in the world. I like like to nap. I hate like the time between like 1 and 4. Any questions for us? Um no. I don't think so. What do you What do you think of Stradman? I liked him a lot. He's awesome. nicest guy. He was a genuine person. Yeah, it's crazy. He is exactly the same and I could say the same thing about you. Exactly the same on camera as off. And it's it's incredible with him how easy it is for him to film. Like he'll just whip out the camera, one take with like perfect energy. And then he'll just be right back. Huh. It's like how did you do that? I would have taken 20 takes to do that. people where you're like, wow. They're different. No, like they suck. Oh. Like you've obviously been meeting a lot of people in this space. Obviously don't have to name names, but you ever meet anybody you're like, I don't want to be a part of this person. There were two. Uh one was uh someone who I had like really looked up to and uh it's it's not Kevin O'Leary, by the way. Kevin O'Leary, by the way, I was shocked. I I came in I came in like so nervous. I thought he was just going to be like just pure get in, get out. And he hung out with us afterwards. Like the And he showed up alone, which I was like Are you I thought he was like Yeah, he just wanted to be friends. Yeah, already. Oh, that's cool. Kevin O'Leary is amazing. Uh the one which I kind of get now was a with stub a busy person and um basically just told me, all right, we have 45 minutes. And just showed up. Uh I was kind of setting up, had no interest in any conversation, and filmed perfect, and then immediately after just was like, all right, I'll see you. That was it. Huh. And so, it was just a bit disappointing because it's like you like to kind of hang out. I don't expect it, but it would just be kind of nice. Um cuz otherwise I just feel like, well, then it's just for the YouTube and Yeah. you know. Um and then the other one was just uh I I traveled to see this person and then you know, I I made some commitments of what was expected from me and uh immediately after showing up, I was like, I want to get out. I just It was It was not for me. It was not what I expected. And so, uh so I cut ties. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But everyone else was was good. I'll I'll tell you after filming. But [laughter] But But yeah, but no, everyone else was fantastic. Yeah. Mhm. And everyone has become a friend. Everyone that we've had on the podcast, we keep in touch with. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Interesting. So, it would be fun, by the way, to get like a once a year This is never going to happen. A once a year we rent out like a warehouse like this, invite everyone on the podcast in one place one time. I would love to do that. That would be a convention. That's like a That's like a thing that would be a thing. Yeah. I would do it. Yes, let's do it. I would love to do it. I'll [snorts] pay to help rent out a thing. I would do it. Okay. People just have to get their own accommodations, but we'll provide We'll provide punch and pie. Sure. [laughter] Pizza and pie. Have a great time. Cool. Yeah, people are generally very nice in this space. At least the people that I've met have had great experiences with them all. Yeah, that's good. It's good to know. Cuz you know, you always wonder, you know. Yeah. How was it with us, by the way? Cuz I was really nervous. I I had planned out the trip perfectly, but the charging took a little bit too long and there was traffic. 5 minutes late. I felt so bad. no. I was late and and and I was great. I um I'm blown away by your setup in the sense that my setup is a disaster in comparison. I'm always shocked at how much gear people have. That's like the biggest thing that always surprises me. Um cuz I just don't. Yeah. [snorts] And and I'm always surprised like, oh, this is what a real real [laughter] team does. This is how it's supposed to look. I don't think so. See, I I I really envy the way you you run everything. I like the fact that it's so simple. It's special thing to be able to do it that easily. But it would be also nice to, you know, know it. I don't even know what it is. Yes. You should see our actual setup. Like our actual studio, it's a room where you just sit down and press the button and we have a switchboard. And we have lights everywhere. It's It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it it always blows me away. I was saying before we were on camera this I did this film this commercial with Audi. And like I just can't believe how much goes into this kind of stuff. Like obviously with movies, I know you see the trucks around and you know it's insane. They shut off streets and all that. But like we did a commercial it took It was a minute of screen time. I mean there were truly a hundred people there. There were trailers as if there were actors on set. Like there were It was wild. I just can't believe at some of the stuff that And everybody everything like I press the button, I like listen to the sound all that myself. They have a guy for every single one of these jobs and it just like blows me away as a Like I've seen them filming with Netflix for Selling Sunset. And the amount of people uh just to be in a room for filming one thing You're right. There's a person like monitoring the audio and a person monitoring that person or a person checking the lighting and a person watching behind the scene and like five people giving their It's nuts. It's nuts. Yeah. It's just crazy. I cannot believe some of the setups. This is nothing in comparison. But to me this is still I know. But no, [laughter and snorts] I like your approach and that's what I've done for my channel as well. Yeah. It's one camera, lights on the We don't even have lights on these uh or towels. We don't even have towels on the lights. care about the content. And that's what I always tell people. I still get people coming to me and being like, I'm going to make the best car channel ever with 4K drones and I'm going to do all this stuff." And I like I'm always encouraging of people who say this to me, but like you're not going to see a return forever and it sounds like you're going to spend a lot of money to not see a return. And also, I just don't think that's what people are looking for necessarily. I think that people want content. None of that stuff matter. If that stuff you If you have content and that stuff, it's great, but like that will not get you anywhere. You need to have something that people want to see. That's where it all starts to me. And if you want to pad it after that with some of that stuff, then that's something, I guess. I'd say that's good. It's good to end it there unless you had that's good. Thank you, Doug. Nice to meet you. Yeah, nice to meet you guys. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah. I've been looking forward to this since we first got in touch when I bought the GT. Yeah. And I can't believe today's the day. I know. I can't believe we got it done. I'm so glad. We did it. Thank you so much. And Thank you. I'm glad. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited for this to post. Guys, we'll link to your channel down below in the description. I'm sure everyone you don't need an introduction, but anyway, all your info's down below in the description. You guys got to subscribe. You have to do it. And hit the like button. Get a free stock down below. And till next time. Thank you, guys. Thank you.