Meet The Bodybuilder Making $200,000 Per Month | Jay Cutler

Four-time Mr. Olympia, social media star, and multi-million dollar businessman, Jay Cutler is larger than life. In business, he's pulling in millions of dollars a year. His dedication is unparalleled, and growing up, he was a major inspiration for me to get into fitness. This is going to be an incredible episode. Make sure to subscribe because we have episodes coming out like this every single week here on the Ice Coffee Hour. This all happened because of a very funny situation where Graham came up to me. He's like, "Dude, you'll never guess what happened, man. I was out at the casino and I met Jay Cutler and I was like, "Yeah, do you remember this?" I don't remember. This was at Resorts World. Was it Resorts World? It was the opening of a restaurant and I was going through the casino and I saw you there in line and I was so nervous. I wanted to go up and get a picture and I was like, "Should I do I don't want to bother him. This is kind of weird, but I gathered up the courage. I went up. You were so nice." Uh, we took a picture together. I posted on Instagram. Everyone's like, "Whoa, you met Jay Cutler." And so then I thought, "Well, how cool would it be to get you with a podcast?" And I sent you a DM. and I'm sure they get flooded and it must have been six months later I think you responded back when I was 17 or 18 I started going to the gym consistently and you were one of the people because I was uh 18 2008 and so this was like right when you were winning like backto backto back championships and so when it came to bodybuilding and you know certainly like I'm I'm nowhere close to where you are but I think a lot of people look to that be like wow even if I could achieve 10% of that like that's the goal so tell us about your story uh how you came up, how you got into bodybuilding in the first place. Ah man, it's you know it's it's pretty lengthy. I mean I can honestly tell you guys that like from the very beginning I mean I have pictures when I was flexing when I was four years old, 6 years old, 8 years old. I was the youngest of seven kids and I was always inspired by like uh cartoon characters or superheroes, right? So it was like Superman, Batman, and you know Captain America, those kind of things. I was always intrigued by the muscle. I would probably say the the first influence I was 12 and my sister's boyfriend had a bodybuilding book and it featured the 83 82 Olympia Chris Dickerson won that and I remember seeing this physique and I was like man this is unbelievable. It was kind of like a ripped up magazine and I, you know, since I had already had recognition from people around me, especially my my older brothers and sisters, you know, I was the youngest of seven. So, uh, I had a good physique and I was an active kid. I started, I guess, kind of following it and I'd go to my local GNC and I'd flip through the books, like the magazines, because that was the only real place that had fitness books was GNC. There was no such thing as vitamin shops or other like mom and pop supplement stores. So, I would go in and I would reach the magazine rack and I watched that all through high school. I was a football player, had an interest in bodybuilding. One of my friends when I was 15 took me to Gold's gym and we worked out and he was super into bodybuilding. And I think that I kind of was like, "Wow, it's amazing what you can do getting under these weights." And and I I made a commitment that when I graduated high school, which I graduated 91, I was going to join the gym and start my journey towards lifting weights and developing a better body. But what I realized is when I started, I was attending college that fall September. I was pursuing a degree in criminal justice. Uh I had a family business that I worked in doing concrete. So I already had in high school a developed body. But really once I found those weights and I found that time in the gym, I was training from 8 to 10 at night. The gym closed at 10:00. I was just lost in the weights. It was the best stress reliever. I was at that turning point. 18. like we reached that that point and it's like the family's trying to drag you to the business like that was a family business and then it was like okay do I want to pursue a degree in criminal justice I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do and I think a lot of young kids just go to college and they're not sure is this going to be my lifelong career and when I found lifting weights not to say that I was like this is what I'm going to do the rest of my life but I knew it was a hobby for sure that I would you know participate in and that started the whole kind of journey and progression obviously kept me in the gym. I'm 50 lbs my first year training and I somehow got on a bodybuilding stage. And what about your siblings? Were they naturally fit too? Like if they went to the gym, they trained like you. Would they have the results that you did or do you think maybe that you were just genetically a little bit more inclined to put on muscle? I was a little stockier. I have an older brother that's a little stocky like that also, but my other brothers are pretty slender. Uh, and like I said, they own a concrete business, so they were all super active, but no one ever lifted weights, so it's hard to say, would this benefit them like it benefited me. It was really hard for me to imagine uh, you know, trying to I didn't have a guide like you know, normally like the older brother or the father like today I see now, you know, someone gets someone into this and shows them a direction where I kind of had to find on my own. I think maybe there could have been genetics. It's hard to really say, but genes do play a part in when you can go to a certain level like I did, like the Olympia level to win, like you have to have something special like it's structure, it's, you know, body composition, how you handle foods, and it's a lot of mindset. What percent do you think you'd allocate towards hard work versus just pure genetics? I think, you know, we've seen some great bodies that never really came to fruition of like being their absolute best uh because the mindset wasn't there. But I would say, you know, listen, hard work, like a lot of it is hard work, a lot of it. But genetics, you still have to have right genetics like anyone can make progress, but to go to the elite level when you start talking, okay, to be Mr. Olympia, like you have to have a a good sway of genetics. Also, what do you think drew you to the gyms in the uh the beginning in terms of like lifting weights? Was it uh was it the physique? Was it like, hey, get attention from girls? Was it uh the feeling? You know, I mentioned that I I said, "Wow, if I actually put my body to work, like I would get more reaction from people." But I think more uh it wasn't like I get sand kicked in my face or anything like that. Like you hear these or I was smaller than everyone else or I was picked on. I was rather popular in high school and for me I strive on challenges in life. Like if something's not competitive or challenging I'm not I'm kind of bored with it to be honest. So at what age do you think you cross that line of being like okay he's got like a decent physique to like holy cow like this is actually something he can compete with. Looking back now, it was the combination of doing concrete from 11 to 18 where I was just working non-stop after school, school vacations. It really tore my body down. So, when I actually started going to college and I would be in class and I have more time to rest and then I started eating the food cuz I didn't have any kind of nutrition program at all when I was in high school. It really uh it it just my body exploded and that's really how I I would say that I made such fast progression, you know, cuz my body was just beat down, tired, not not any no nutrition value whatsoever. So, back to the timeline, you were 18 when you started taking it seriously. You said you also went to college. Did you graduate college? I did. Yeah. And what did you study in college again? Criminal justice. Criminal justice, right? And then did you go into work right after college or did you go full into bodybuilding? The funny thing is is uh you know I graduated college in in uh 93 and I went to the I went to the teen nationals around the time I was graduating. I actually skipped my graduation to go compete in the nationals. Yes. Wow. That's the best teenager in the country. I won that in the heavyweights. And from that forward I was like okay I have something. You know I was looking at magazines and looking at California. I wasn't making a ton of money. And so when I graduated, uh, I was able to, you know, just work and just support my career a little bit. I didn't take a job right away. And I was trying to decide because I graduated my associates degree and do I did I want to go and finish my bachelor's and, you know, I was kind of working I was doing heating, air conditioning at the time. And uh, shortly after, I mean, I got my first sponsorship offer was like $50,000 contract. And at the time, doesn't sound like a lot, but this is this is 90 95. I landed my first Muscle and Fitness cover and I started getting fan mail from all over the world. I had a PO box and they I'd handwrite letters to people and you know, I started a mail order and it's kind of comical, but I would sell one picture of myself in one t-shirt and people would send me money orders and checks and I started kind of my business at that point. Every week I was getting residual money from being basically a nobody. You know, I was a guy that maybe had a couple pictures in a magazine and uh that's kind of how I started my entrepreneurship to be honest. How much would you charge for a picture shirt? I would charge $10 for the picture and the shirt was 20 bucks. I mean, between the contract and that I mean probably I would I would probably make almost 100 grand. So, I was doing I started doing some guest appearances for $500 like guest posing. And that's how it all kind of started was just basically mail order and I mean it's pretty laughable. Even when I was in Vegas, you know, fast forward, I mean, I was selling t-shirts out of my garage when no one was doing t-shirts and making a million bucks a year just on t-shirt sales, you know. Mhm. Just out of my garage. Now, back then, uh, what was your overhead? Were you saving a lot of it? Were you I was renting an apartment. My apartment was 500 bucks. I drove kind of a crappy car. I bought my first I bought first car I bought was a BMW 7 series. I think the payment was $600 a month at the time was huge to me. I'd buy a whole cow at a time. So I had like two freezers in my house. At the time I was eating probably four meat, four pounds of meat a day and a lot of it was red meat, but I'd buy 150 pounds of chicken at the time. I'd buy 30 dozen eggs. So I'd buy whole case of eggs and that would be my whole refrigerator. And that's how dedicated I was. And I'd sit outside and I cook in all my chicken breasts and my steak and stuff like that on the barbecue grill. And I'd put it on plates and I'd put it in my refrigerator and I'd pick as the days went on. Prepare. You know, people do their meal preps usually on Sundays or whatever. I would pick enough for each couple days and that's how I kind of ate the foods. I have pasta and rice and whatever around it. I ate every two hours. And you talk about progression, you know, you just said, "How did I do it?" I mean, that's where I was spending most of the money. How much do you think you were spending on food back then? I was probably spending maybe 50,000 a year on food. Gosh. Yeah. 50 grand back then, too. That was 95. Yeah. Cuz, you know, I would eat out sometimes, too. But uh and I would travel and so you said you were buying a whole cow at a time. Yes. How much did a cow cost and how long did it take for you to go through an entire cow? You know it was probably a few hundred for what I paid back then for that's it. Yeah. I think it would be more. Yeah. I would have thought it would be like two grand. No, cuz remember this is like this is I was the guy was in Spencer, Massachusetts. So if people know people that know Massachusetts, I mean I grew up in Sterling. So, uh, you know, it was it was I mean, I think 30 dozen. I just went to a grocery store the other day. I called my mom. I said, "Mom, eggs are $5 a dozen here." She's I said, "How I remember when they were 99?" And I mean, I've probably been in a time war, but I don't really pay attention as much, but when I was buying 30 dozen eggs, I mean, I remember I was getting them for free sometimes because I would publicize the farm stand I was buying them from. And when you're eating four or five pounds of meat a day, that's a lot. How do you eat every other hour? Do you just have a I would have a clock and I would honestly just I always have this there's this quote on the internet and it's like I eat for function, not for taste. When's the last time you had McDonald's? Well, I mean I still listen, don't get me wrong, I still I it's been a long time since I had McDonald's. In-N-Out Burger. We actually We had In-N-Out Burger yesterday because Well, we did it for a YouTube. Oh, it's for YouTube. But did you enjoy it or was it like a I got to eat this in and out? Um, I didn't feel I didn't I didn't I didn't feel so good the rest of the day to be honest. But I have a specific order that I do and I want to show like my following that hey I am normal cuz I know they think that they probably think that I'm just don't do anything outside the norm. You know what I mean? Do you have ever any cravings for let's just say sweets? I do. I mean I'm a carrot cake. I mean, Cheesecake Factory, I was one of my go-tos when I was, you know, finished with a contest over all the years, and Carrot Cake is one of my my vices, but, you know, I'm not afraid to have something if I really, but I don't like where a lot of athletes, they schedule cheat days. I don't necessarily have them. I feel like I still eat quite an abundance of food, even though I scale back, I probably eat half as much as I used to. The diet, you ask me percentages, like 80% of what we do is the nutrition. Wow. It's saying abs are made in the kitchen. Yeah. Which we actually I did a I did a video yesterday said abs aren't made in the kitchen. They're actually made in the gym. But but you still have, you know, to be visible they're made in the kitchen. Right. You're still working out and very structured and very intense about this whole, you know, bodybuilding thing. Is there ever a time in your life, do you think that you're gonna ease up and be like, you know what, I'm not going to worry about the food that I'm gonna eat. I'm not I don't feel like I have to push myself in this gym so much. or is it just something that you thoroughly enjoy and you'll think you'll enjoy for the rest of your life? I'm still I'm still on a fast track of appearances and and being in the public eye. Social media has become kind of I consider myself kind of laughable, not kind of an influencer now. I'm not competitive, right? So, I think expectations, you never want to see your hero or someone that inspires you off track and just normalized. Does that make sense? I believe social media like we only see the positive things on social media from certain people and you know that it's come out that other you know sometimes people aren't what they are on social media. What I try to do is be as real as I possibly can and I actually probably train now more than I did then. Meaning I train seven days a week where before I trained five days total. I got up this morning I did my fasted cardio this morning. I ate a solid breakfast and uh you know I may not eat every two hours or three hours like I used to, but I still try to eat at least four meals a day, but it's all mostly clean eating. And don't get me wrong, I'll still eat out, but you know, if you throw something in front of me uh for dessert or something like that, I probably will pass on that. Sure. Do you find that you notice a difference if you eat fast food or something that's unhealthy? How much do you feel it afterwards or the next day? And the in and out. I mean, I went and trained last night and I felt a little heavy and I felt like the sodium really got to me and I got everything without salt, by the way, yesterday and I just it something off track. I definitely feel a difference in your body, but sometimes your body needs it. I mean, it depends how how strict you are. I mean, don't be afraid to eat something that you crave once in a while. You need it for your mind, too, right? A lot of this, like I talked about, is mental. So if you your mind is telling you, hey, I need something that's off diet a little bit or know something that will will help my mind. Can you walk us through your diet for today? What exactly you ate for breakfast and what you're going to eat for the rest of the day? So breakfast was two whole eggs. Uh I had an Ezekiel bread, which is like a flowerless bread. I had a bowl of oatmeal with a banana, a cup of coffee, cottage cheese, and I had some bacon. That's still I mean that's a lot of food still. I'd be full for hours. Yeah. So So the breakfast is still 80 80 protein and probably 200 gram of carbohydrates and then I'll have I'm not kidding like chicken and rice the rest of the day. Like chicken and rice. Chicken and rice. The same thing. People People laugh about my monotonous eating style. It's just what I know. And I mean once in a while I'll eat red meat. I try to eat less now. Over the weekend, we ate at a restaurant. I did have some red meat. Uh, but with my age and everything, I try to stay more leaner, uh, less cholesterol and that kind of thing. But first, we want to thank today's sponsor, Ron. So, Ran sent us their commuter shirt, and I got to say, I am wildly impressed. It's not only the comfiest shirt I've ever had, but I would say it's also one of the most stylish shirts I've had. Feels like you're almost wearing a blanket, like a silk blanket. It's hard to describe, actually, but it's extremely comfortable. Another really cool thing about Ron is that they have wrinkle release technology. So, as you wear and stretch out the shirt, it just gets rid of the wrinkles naturally. Yeah, it's perfect for Jack as he doesn't know how to use an iron. Plus, with their Gold Fusion anti- odor technology, you'll smell fresh and clean all day long, regardless of how sweaty you are. And that's perfect for Graham because he always smells terrible. And on top of all of that, they're 100% machine washable. So, no more long and expensive trips to the dry cleaners. And I'm going off script here, but I gotta say, seriously, guys, this is the most comfortable shirt I've I think I've ever had. And I think you'd agree with that, right? Oh, 100%. I've worn really expensive shirts before, and this feels better than those shirts. So, head to rone.com/iced coffee and get 20% off your entire order with the code iced coffee. That's rh.com/iced coffee and use code iced coffee at checkout and you get 20% off your whole order. Thank you so much, Ran, for sponsoring this episode. And back to the podcast. And I made the transition to California when I was 25. Mhm. So finally after years of I mentioned, you know, Joe signed me to a contract when I was 21. Gave me a raise like $10,000 bucks every year and uh basically offered me $100,000 to move to California at the time. I was making like 60 grand. Um so he gave me a $40,000 bump to move to California to offset the expenses. And that was kind of a shock to me. And I had a really good setup in Massachusetts. I had built a home gym at that point. I had like 2,000 foot gym so I didn't train in any public gyms and I was traveling on the weekends, you know, I was doing the mail order stuff and at that point like I didn't have a lot of competition because I'll be honest, a lot of the bodybuilders weren't motivated to make more money. They just got a pay paycheck. I mean, think about it. You could sit on your couch and work out and get paid a check every month, you know, came every 30 days. But for me, I wanted to build something different. I thought this was a a shortterm career. I literally thought, I'm going to bail for 5 years and I'm going to quit because I don't know how successful I'll be at that. So, when I moved to California and I won my first pro show in 2000, I got $15,000 and I remember I was renting an apartment at the time. I was paying $1,500 for my apartment in Liso Viejo, California. You know, I had one car. I was married at the time. My my wife and I, we shared that. and she was a nurse, you know, she was a nurse and she got a job at Hog Hospital at the time and and so we had dual incomes. Now I was making probably 150 a year. Uh but when I won that Night of Champions, I got my 15K. I was able to go buy my first home in California, bought a condo, I paid 220 for it. And uh that was kind of the start. And then I went on the tour that fall. I went to Olympia. I finished eighth. And I went on a European tour, started collecting money. And then the next year I got second at the Olympia and I was winning 60 grand. So now it was starting to really roll. Guest appearances were starting to fly and I made my first million dollars when I was 29 years old. How is it balancing a relationship at the same time as keeping up the schedule? Cuz I'd imagine your schedule is like it's got to be It's always a strain on the relationship because it's a very selfish game like you're eating, sleeping, training. You're very secluded from social um gatherings and whatnot. What was that like coming in second? Who won uh first place? Ronnie Coleman. Yeah. So, how close were you with him at the time? We were pretty close. I mean, he was an idol of mine. I really wanted to stand next to him, but I was never even compared. And so, when I was able to play second in 2001 next to him, it was in Vegas. Uh, so when it started to migrate to Vegas, obviously, I moved to California 99 also. So, I was kind of a a driving distance. So, I kind of settled myself in Las Vegas and and uh a week prior and I got acclimated a lot easier than the other guys and landed that first second place and man, it was like I had made it. Like that's the first realization that I could actually beat the best bodybuilder in the world. It took a lot longer than I expected. I didn't win until six. Can you say how much you make winning a Mr. Olympia? Well, at my peak I won 200. Today it's around 400. Okay. So, you know, I won 155 the first year. I think I went up to 200 max, but 155 was my first prize. And it doesn't seem like a lot, right? Be the best in the world at something. But the endorsements that come along, it's just endless. How do those look? How do you pick and choose which companies you want to work with? Do you have someone negotiating these on your behalf or they just come to you? I I didn't. I was always my own agent. You know, a lot of the times uh for my career, like I I used products or I sat looked at what could be potentially something that I could utilize in my career. And you know, whether it's workout gloves, belts, supplements, clothing. I mean, I had hair products, I had, you know, skin products, I had tanning lotions, I had everything. It just falls on your lap. I mean, when you're the best in the world or you're the most publicized guy and back then, I mean, we're still talking about magazines. Yeah, I was on every page of every magazine and you know I had the biggest supplement sponsor uh company out there, Muscle Tech, and that was I had a 8-year contract with them. Now, how do you stay on top? Because I'd imagine 2006 there's a lot of pressure. You're going to do this again, winning again and and keeping that momentum. How did you do that? Your fear of losing. And that's how I pretty much could kind of dictate how I trained every day and pushed forward. I mean, I I always wanted to have a better physique, but when once you win, you're they kind of tell you like this is the ideal physique we're looking at. So, it's now duplicate that every year or, you know, try, you know, try to predict what else someone else is going to look like. So, it's basically showing your strong points and hiding your weaknesses cuz we all had weaknesses. For me, it was a conditioning thing. Like I always my weakness was the consistency in conditioning meaning that shredded look without water retention. I mean I could always get lean enough. It's just that you know that last dial down of dehydration where you have that shrink wrapped skin you know on stage which lasts a very short period. I just didn't want to lose. I mean I don't I don't know how some people just strive on being competitive and their fear of losing is what keeps them driven. And I'm not afraid to say that. You know, every every year it was, you know, I had nightmares of like, oh, I'm going to lose the title. I wanted to win as many as I could. And if you follow my career, I won two and I lost one in the middle eight. And then I came back to win it again for two more. And no one's ever done that in history. And so I I believe I mean, if you ask me honestly, that's probably why I, you know, kept pushing myself harder. It's just once you get that feel of Mr. Olympiads, you don't want to go backwards. What happened in 2008? Can you walk us through maybe where you feel like you could have done better? You could have pushed yourself. What What happened that day? Yeah, a few variables. Uh, you know, Coleman and I battled and I won in ' 06. And he came back in ' 07. He tried to win it back and he finished fourth. So, we carried bodybuilding to a crazy level of size and conditioning. through our reign. It was basically a twoman contest. There was no, if you look back in 03, four and five, six, no one talked about anyone else winning. It was only he and I, but there were, you know, 15 other guys in the contest, which was a little unfortunate for some of the other guys to be honest. It was a little unfair, but at the same time, like it was he and I that battle and we were the biggest. When Ronnie stepped away, he didn't come back in '08. I was kind of confused on how I wanted to bring my physique in because I had gone so big and now I was looking at these littleer um structured guys that were more ripped. So was I need I needed to try to become more conditioned because my overwhelming size probably wouldn't win it for me. I needed to be sharper. And when you try to bring your body back down to a smaller weight, um because my first Olympia I won at 273 and even in 09 when I came back to win the title I was 254. So that's a big swing of weight. So I actually had to lose a little bit of muscle in order to gather conditioning and that's where I went wrong. It was miscalculation. Uh I was flatter than I flatter meaning the muscles weren't as full. And um Dexter Jackson took the title from me and it was heart-wrenching for me. Yeah, it was one of the darkest places in my career that I had been because remember I had been first or second forever and I'd never thought I could be beaten. So I guess it's kind of arrogance as far in overconfident and maybe just complacent uh places for me. I just never thought I would lose. Yeah. And then what did you do for 2009? I just How did you get the motivation to to put yourself out there again? I was embarrassed. I was embarrassed. You know, I was embarrassed that I only held two tight. Remember, guy won prior to me won eight in a row. The guy prior to him won six in a row. I mean, the guy prior to him won eight in a row. Here I won two and lost. That's embarrassing for me. So, and I'm looked upon as like the do all guy of bodybuilding. You know, I was, you know, super successful. I was motivated. I I was driven. I was like very robotic in my routine. And everyone knew that like Jay was all business. Like it was no play time for him. And I think for me, everyone's like, "Well, how did this guy miss a beat and just lose?" So embarrassment, uh, extra motivated. I mean, I was always better chasing. Like when I chased Coleman for those years and was second, I was always, you know, solidified second. So now, you know, here I am. Like they were talking about me not even placing 08. Like if you watch the buildup to the contest, they they mentioned that Jay won't be in the top two or three or his body's just tired. So when I came back in '09, I just kind of shut up all that that talk and came back at arguably one of my best looks since 2001. Yeah. And then what about in 2010? Bill Heath was coming up. I mean, I won another one, but I knew I, you know, after 09 and coming back and arguably, like I said, it was history making the quad stomp that that famous pose I did. It was really hard for me to justify um how am I going to be better than this? My biggest fear, even talking with, you know, the guy that was training me and my group around me, how was I going to top 2009? And the truth was is you weren't going to, right? It was really hard to repeat that. So for me, uh, you know, I came back, I won it. It wasn't in the fashion that I wanted to, but that was my last victory. I mean, I came back in 11, I tore my bicep three weeks out, Phil Heath won. He was second to me in 2010, and he started his reign of seven times. I came back in 13, and I was a shadow of myself, you know, after getting bicep surgery in 2012 and uh, finished sixth. What happened to your bicep? How did that happen? I was doing a photo shoot and uh basically what I did a million times, I had dumbbells on my knees and I was kicking them up to do a shoulder press and when I kicked them up, the bicep detached on the upper and it didn't hurt really. I just thought, "Oh, I it was like an electric shock." And I just kept doing the photo shoot and I kept training the leading up and it slowly started to get black and blue and it was actually detached. And the crazy thing is is I competed with a torn bicep. I competed there and I went to India the next week. I got second, but it was a mess, you know. The bicep was all black and blue and you could see the lump in there, you know, cuz it was rolled down, you know, when the muscle rose. How was that not painful? Well, it was painful when I got on stage and started posing, but I didn't really, you know, remember when you're practicing, you're not practicing. It's like being it's like sparring, you know, like no one's hitting you with the force that you're going to get hit with real fight, right? So, it started to hurt, but I had to suck it up. And the the crazy thing is is this was September of 11. And I didn't have surgery until February of 12 because I had so many committed guest posings and appearances. I couldn't be slinged up or in a cast. I end up in a sling. But I had to stay committed to that because I had already booked a million things and I had competitions and I had to compete and represent. I mean, the fans would have been disappointed at the time. So, uh, you know, that was kind of like nail in my coffin career, my opinion. It's crazy because just just listening to this conversation, the way that you talk, you have one of the most intense focuses that I've ever seen, I think, on a guest on the podcast ever. It's you're so driven. You have so much momentum in one in one direction. And I Are you feeling the same thing? I love it. Yeah. is just doing one thing really well. Well, like like I told you, you asked me, you know, about the mindset and I told you like it's, you know, I balance a lot of things now, but I try to do like one main focus thing like at the best of my ability, right? And it's kind of funny for the shows. I would basically say, okay, I would train for four months for these contests. So Olympia preparation I'm it would all it was all year but I would cut out everything four months out meaning don't bother me don't pick up the phone I wouldn't even pick up the phone call people I wouldn't do anything I would not travel no social anything it was like straight tunnel vision focus for training I was training twice a day you know I was in the gym twice a day I do cardio at home two times so I was basically training four times a day you said in an interview or some sort of video I watched on you this morning that to to be as successful as you are in the space, there needs to be something wrong with your brain. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? To go to the gym every day and destroy yourself and you have to go to a really dark place, especially the last few weeks, like you're low on calories and you're dizzy, you're tired, and you're pushing yourself beyond. Remember, we build up like like you eat all this food and then all of a sudden you have to pull all the calories back to get on stage. like it's kind of count like doesn't make sense, right? Because you got to build your body up and then strip it down. So you basically have three I have 3% body fat when I'm on stage and you do this over four months and you're tired and you're frustrated and everything else. But you know, you you look amazing, but you feel like total crap. And for me, it's just I had this mindset like it was just super driven. I I can't explain it. I mean, I think that not everyone can ever build that over time. It's something you're kind of born with, if makes sense. And when you look back on those years, would you consider yourself happy? No. What would you say you were? No, I wasn't truly happy. I mean, I was happy at moments, but it was just routine. It was just eat, sleep, train, and know repeat. And I thought I was, you know, we can sit and talk financial success or notoriety and like you knew who I was or whatever else. But like I didn't sit around and say, "Well, I'm Jay Cutler and people know me or I make X amount of dollars." It's like I had one goal and like I told you, if I never made a dollar and I was on my quest to be Mr. Olympia, I still would have done it because it was like something that, you know, history books I'll be recognized forever. That makes sense. Did you find it difficult to find determination and passion after retiring? Because it feels like you've had one focus and once that focus is I carried it right over to the other things I was doing. It actually was like a sigh of relief when I retired because like anything everything gets old and at 40 I never thought I'd go that long. I told you I thought I'd do it a few years. I mean I I always I've been stated in a a magazine I said I'll be retired by 30. And I I had all these other ventures I was doing and connections. And I kind of wish I branched out a little more because I really could have rubbed shoulders with a lot more people that might have, you know, been more successful or uh someone that could really be kind of do some mentorship towards me for the future. But I feel I did well. Uh but I just that's how I had to operate. I had to operate like that. And wasn't about being happy or uh anything else. And I I think that it really uh you know it gave me a lot of opportunity to focus on my other things. You know once I stepped out and that whole focus was gone now I can zone in on you know living my life and and doing the things that I do. Like I I live nothing like that now. And how did you balance running the business and training full-time when you were at your peak? It it hurt me a lot to get ready for contest. So, it was like literally the day the contest was over, it's like, "Oh, thank God I can get back to business and I can get back to traveling. I can focus on all my other opportunities to, you know, use the success of the bodybuilding revenue to build a bigger empire." And I have a great team. I had great people around me to always help. Uh, you know, I did I was never individual. You know, anyone that tells you they're successful solely on their own is is probably lying to you. you know, what were some of the businesses that you were doing back then? How many income streams did you have? Um, I had quite a bit. I mean, a lot of the endorsements turned into uh other business for me. So, I mentioned, you know, I the supplements and the clothes and, you know, online I I had DVD sales. I had um I had so many different like outlets. And then I was doing real estate. You know, I moved to Vegas to buy property. And you know, I had rental properties and I was flipping some homes. But back then, I mentioned it was so much easier. I mean, Vegas was still so early. This is something that someone like yourself probably looks and says, "Man, if I could have been there in 2002, right? I was buying $150,000 houses and selling them for 200 in a heartbeat." And back then, that was a lot, right? I was putting 5% down, so it was easy to float money back then. And then I had rental properties. And I mean, the rentals were under $1,000 for, you know, a three-bedroom house with a pool. And, you know, you had good and bad tenants. That's one thing I can tell you. Like, I I wasn't really It's hard when you're Jay Cutler and you're a landlord. Did they Did they know you're the Of course, because I kind of handled my stuff. And you managed yourself. Unfortunately, like it was easy to rent these because I I'm out and about and someone's like, I want to come to Vegas. So, I have this rental property and uh you know that's that's how how it was. How much were you making at your peak years? Can you share that? Probably two $22.5 million. Okay. And what about transitioning from that to now? Were you able to invest most of that or how does that look today? Yeah, I mean I was able to basically put a lot of money away. Uh but I still was a huge earner and still to this day I mean it's it just doesn't stop. And you know, I was kind of laughing with Tyler yesterday. We were talking about cuz he's like he sees me traveling every weekend to these guest appearances and he says, "You ever just want to stop?" And he knows I'll get bored. Yeah. But I said, "Man, if someone calls you and offers you a great, you know, revenue to come out there and speak at an event or whatever else, why would I ever stop? Not only do I enjoy it, but it's free travel. It's connections you make. I mean, I walked in a gym this past weekend and if I didn't go do this guest appearance, I mean, it they had all these murals of me on the walls and everything like that. these young kids came in and these kids were in their teens and they're like Jay Cutler J and I couldn't I still floored that these young kids follow a guy that's older than their parents and they watch oh I watch you on Tik Tok or I watch you on Snapchat or watch you on YouTube and I did a collab last week with you know a 21-year-old kid and it's getting tons of viral things and I actually took my shirt off and posed with them and now they're talking about a Jay Cutler comeback and the Masters which is crazy to me. I mean, I'm almost 50. This Lex little guy. Okay. Yeah. He's he's uh he's like 21 years old, but you know, we got in the posing room at Gold's Venice, you know, the Yeah. historic mecca bodybuilding. I don't know if you've been there, but you know, I have pictures all over the walls there. And, you know, he somehow got me in the posing room and I never take my shirt off. You know, these guys all look good. You know, they're 21, the fresh muscle. And you know, for me, it's hard for me to look at, you know, I weigh 235 today and I used to be 300 lb and I told you I peaked at you, ripped full, you know, 255, 275. And uh, you know, I didn't think I looked so good, but then the pictures of floating, I was like, man, Jay, you should do it. I'm doing this whole fit for 50, so next year I turn 50 in August, and I'm going to get in the best shape I've been in 10 years. It's not to say I'm getting back to what I looked like before, but um I'm I'm encouraging people like age is a number because I honestly at my age it's I used to look at these guys in their 40s and say that old guy over there. Now I I jump out of bed in the morning and I'm energized to get up and do things. And that's the crazy part is I always listen to people say, "Oh, when you're 40, when you're 45, when you're 50, you're going to be creeping out of bed after weight training." I have zero pain. I have no joint pain, no restrictions, no health issues. I mean, all my blood work, everything is great. Now, how often do you test your blood work and make sure that everything is in line? At least twice a year. Sometimes every 3 months, but at least twice a year. I get busy and I'll be honest. I mean, it's like going to the dentist, right? I try to go every 3 months or so. I do I'm very conscious of my health because I realized that you know what I did in order to look the way I did uh I definitely feel like it had some wear and tear on my body. I mean putting substance in my body to try to you know build the biggest physique I mean it's not necessarily natural in the food we talk about four pounds of meat a day on the on the kidneys and everything it's it's taxing. I mean that's just the food is the killer. I mean we can talk about drugs and dehydration and everything else but that's what kills people is the heart disease. You know the sugars are the worst things people don't understand that you know too much sugar I mean it causes a lot of it can build up in the heart you know and that's where a lot of people are diabetes I mean weight challenges. So for me, you know, the stage isn't where I'm kind of putting the end physique now. It's through the channels that I'm putting the content out there and and the realization that listen because you're a dad or because you're, you know, closer to 50 or even 60, like you don't you don't have restrictions like, oh, I can't look a certain way. Yeah, screw that. Right. I've been hearing a lot more stories now about testosterone replacement therapy, and it seems like this these last five years, it's kind of come out of nowhere. Maybe people are talking about it more. What are your thoughts on that? I do it. Yeah, I do. Uh, but the confusion is is what is necessary for someone to replace what they're missing. They say at 35 your levels start to drop. That doesn't mean everyone. I mean, with a with a balanced diet, rest patterns, and everything that is suitable and stress, uh, you can maintain a healthy testosterone level. doesn't mean it's going to go to zero, but unfortunately someone like me that used steroids on and off through my career, it's going to have a hard time for my body to kick back, especially as I get into my age. So, I've chosen the path of testosterone therapy. I take around 200 milligrams of test a week. Okay? It's an injection. Uh that's what's been prescribed to me. And my levels aren't crazy. I mean, last last test levels I had were around 660, which is a mid-range. Yeah, I mean some guys are thousands. I mean if you're, you know, in the twos or threes, they consider that a little lower, but not not a point where you have to choose to take testosterone. I think it helps. Um, you obviously someone like me that voluntarily used testosterone and other compounds to build my career, I'm going to have a different outlook than a person that's probably never used peeds ever. So, and I'm not a doctor, so I can't sit there and say that this is healthy and this long-term, but the the the studies have shown that, you know, lower testosterone can lead to a lot of negative side effects more than just going and replacing it. But, you know, people have this misconception, oh, it causes cancer or this and what doesn't, right? Sure. I mean I use a lot of Splendid my instead of sugar and they say that that's not the best thing and know a lot of things that we drink. I mean people choose a lot different routes right but I think that it can benefit I I would suggest it suggest to anyone if you're feeling tired or you feel like or whatever else I would definitely you know in your blood work definitely have your testosterone checked. Yeah I've heard a lot of entrepreneurs now are doing that Jack it's extremely popular it seems. Yeah. I But I don't know why it just seems like the last few years people are I think it's Joe Rogan cuz he's really talked a lot about it. I believe so. Yeah. But he says you have to do that in addition to training, eating right, sleeping right. It's like, you know, it's like it's like a supplement, right? It's like I sell fat burners or like you have to work out and diet around them. You can't just take fat burners and head to the pizza shop, right? There's a combination of things you need to do. But like I said, you can balance your testosterone with the with a better diet, less stress, great sleep patterns. And sleep is probably the most least spoken about issue with people cannot sleep. Yeah. Because either stress or their schedule's rigid or they have sleep apnnea. Like a lot of especially in the bodybuilding arena, people that have gained weight have sleep apnnea. M I would say a you ask percentages I would say 30 35% of America has sleep apnnea what even is sleep apnnea it's waking up choking uh you know you can't you know you can't breathe it's blockage and you have to sleep you know you have to go for a sleep study test your airway gets blocked as you're sleeping but it happens so it's it's a a number of just like wake you out of REM sleep people can die people can die yeah you can't get into deep REM because you wake up every two minutes like choking you stop breathing, you don't you don't realize it, right? That's really interesting. One thing that I've been hearing a lot recently as well is just getting your blood work done in general that you should do it like one time a year so you can check all of your levels because I know some people personally that didn't realize they had a problem and they just thought that the way that they were living was just normal life until they got their blood work done and they saw those statistics and numbers and they're like, "Holy cow, this makes a lot of sense." They find supplements to fix those numbers or whatever and then they feel what it's like to be truly, you know, balanced. Yeah. I think at a certain age it's important. I mean, not to like all along because of, you know, what I did for a living, I always had blood work done, but like cholester I mean, people should be checking cholesterol, blood pressure. I mean, a lot of people end up with kidney issues because of high blood pressure. Uh, and that like I said, it's all like today's society stress related. Um, I think people drink too much caffeine often. Sometimes I have to watch a Well, I mean, I'm I'm two cups. It's fine. But, you know, I sell pre-workouts and whatnot, and I just launched a 400 milligram pre-workout caffeine. Gosh, 400 milligrams. Yeah. And I had one I have a a group I have a a club, like a thing called Cutler Club, and it's a it's a whole group of avid lifters and whatever else. And I was on a live feed last night. I do these live feeds every two weeks and I just launched this and one of my guys said I probably shouldn't have taken two scoops. So he took 800 migs and and it has a lot of other ingredients. What was his workout? Tyler took one last night and at 6:00. The biggest mistake ever, you know. How late were you up, Tyler? Like 3:00 a.m. You were up till 3, but he was drenched with sweat. We went and trained at Kilo Club right here and uh I never seen anyone sweat that bad. Oh my gosh. I'd be afraid of taking that. For me, one cup of coffee is good enough. Anything more than 100. I'll be happy to send you some just to see if you want to dare to do a try. That sounds fun. You can take a half. You can take You can take a half coffee for you as well. You can try the bankroll coffee and see and see see which one you prefer before the workout. We kind of addressed it, but why bodybuilding? Does it come from a place of insecurity? No, no insecurity whatsoever. It was more uh I wanted to make my family proud, I guess, my parents. And uh for me uh like self selfachievement maybe I think that anyone that goes in the gym and lifts weights it puts you in a different place like it's a it's a great therapy. I always say this people drink or smoke to try to reach what I get out of the gym if it makes sense. And you don't understand until you actually get in there and your mind is clear. I could tell you at 18 when I joined that gym and I was there from 8 to 10 at night. All those stresses of like the family, the school, what I was going to do in life went away while I was lost in that weight training and that's why I stayed with it and that's why I still do it to this day. Has anyone ever tried to pick a fight with you or have you been in a fight? Yes. What happened? Can you talk about it? Um, I've gotten to fights. I'm not someone I mean obviously my age I'm not trying to fight anyone today. MMA is pretty rampant. like the littlest guy sometimes can be the toughest guy. But back in my era, I mean, my size intimidated. But of course, I mean, you walk in a in a nightclub and, you know, you got bigger arms than someone else and you know, the girl looks at you and and all of a sudden and they're like, you know, and but now today, I'll be honest, I mean, I'm pretty known, so it's not like I'm that person, you know? I'm not known as a badass. I guess if you're a UFC fighter or something like that, people want to pick a fight with you, right? It's like asking Dwayne Johnson or I mean like someone like Hulk Hogan, you know, would you ask those guys like would you think that people want to fight them, but I'm sure they've gotten their shifts a little bit too, but you know, I get my traffic stuff. I mean, sometimes it's like cut you off and they start flipping you off and I mean, I've stopped a couple times and Yeah. Oh my god. But I would be sick. You get out of the car and you just keep getting out. Just keep getting bigger. But I don't want to cause any altercations at this point. I feel like all you really have to do is just like roll up the Yeah, but that doesn't that doesn't mean anything these days. I mean, you know, if you look at it, it's scary. It's really scary. I mean, maybe to you. So, you know, maybe see now it's going to expose you, man. Anyone that sees you in traffic, you're like, "Oh, that guy, that guy's a pussy." You know, I'm not. And do you think all those forces that you had constantly being pushed onto your body, whether that be like, you know, steroids or a bunch a crazy diet or pushing yourself all the time in the gym or all the pre-workout and everything was turning you into a a different affecting personality? You know, I don't think, you know, they say these, you know, these roid rages and that kind of stuff. I never necessarily had that. I think people would say when I got mad like they just knew that I took steroids so they like, "Oh, he's having a roid rage." You know what I mean? It's one of those things like if you got mad, you know, I'm looking at you. I'm not considering you someone that uses peeds, right? So, I'm kind of like, well, that's just, you know, you're at it. You know, you're angry like you have maybe just a anger issue, right? Uh, so I think it's just easy excuses, you know? Well, that guy, you know, he's having a roid rage or whatever. But no, I don't think it necessarily changed my personality. I mean, obviously, as you get your status becomes higher, you get on a certain level and you feel like a little obligated for certain things. There's no question. I mean, I love to fly first class now, and I don't like to fly. No, if I can't get a flight, I get a little disappointed if it's not comfortable for me. Uh so those kind of things I guess it's just uh more of an ego sense. So I I guess you know you would say I have to be have a little bit of an ego if I'm trying to be the best in the world at something. I want to be super successful, but I don't use it to look down on anyone or kind of uh treat people differently. I've also heard that body dysmorphia is extremely common in bodybuilding. Very. It's hard to be satisfied with your physique. And you mentioned earlier you don't really pose anymore. Like you you said you took off your shirt as though it was a bigger deal. Yeah. Yeah. And I can tell you that like even when I was Mr. Olympia, I would win the show and I would sit at dinner with my crew after and I'd say, "How can I be better?" So, I don't think I ever had body dysmorphia. I realized I was massive, right? I was huge. I had big big arms. I mean, but remember, we have judges that are telling us that we're not we're either great or we're not so great. So, I would look at that more than, well, I feel like I'm lagging or I'm a lot smaller. Like, I mean, I was wearing 4X shirts at my peak. I mean, even still wearing a 2X shirt. And I'm not trying to be big at all. I I mean, the funny thing is I can sit in front of you guys and you're probably saying he's not trying to be big. I mean, I look still like a bodybuilder. Genetically, like I said, I started this thing because I felt like if I just took that step forward, how much better could I be? I was great, you know, flexing at 6 years old and 8 years old and 12 and, you know, I was one of the most muscular uh kids in my high school. How do they judge by the way? What do they look at specifically? So, they look at symmetry, condition, and proportion. So, basically, like the calves have to match the arms, you know, the shoulders have to have a you have to have a good taper to the waist. Uh the legs have to flare. Uh the condition has to be there. like the skin has to be thin. The detail like I was really detailed on my thighs and my midsection. I had really wide shoulders. So that's really what gave me a great advantage. So when I stood there, it was just very cartoonish, if that makes sense. And you have to have all those balances and if you're missing certain body parts, it's very hard to be the best at a competition. Although what guys can win at levels, but when you get to stand with the best in the world, which you know, Mr. Olympia is an international contest. It's usually held here every year. It's here in December. This year it's been going back and forth between Florida and here with CO stuff, but uh it's it's a lot of things. Presentation, uh you know, skin tone, you know, your flu fluency in how you transition on stage. Like it it's just so many different things, but mainly the condition has to be there and and you have to have a really um uh dehydrated look. How do you get that? cuz you were mentioning 24 hours prior you get that like tight skin, 3% body fat. Like what's involved? Like I told you, it's a four month process to really rip down and get like I got down to 3% and like offseason I maybe be 12 or 15. So you you go on a rigid diet. I mean mostly I ate a lot of white fish. I was eating 5 lbs of white fish a day. So I kept my fats low and obviously fluctuation of carbohydrates. Everyone knows like a low carb diet is going to help you clean out keto, which we never even knew what keto was back in my era cuz it didn't exist. But so basically you restrict calories, you do some cardiovascular along with the weight training, which offseason I did no cardiovascular. So no walking on treadmills or stairs or anything like that. I just strictly weight train. You strip down and then the last week you start cutting water out. you get dehydrated and then you know you you start eating carbohydrates a little bit and you find that balance of you know cutting the water down and filling the muscles so they push against the skin as much as possible and you create that shrink wrap look. So, it's kind of it's kind of different where you take out the carbs and the last week you add them back in, but you cut water at the same time. So, you you get the fullness in the muscle cuz a lot of carbs bring glycogen to the muscle, which is, you know, the filler of the muscle. So, it pushes and then you dehydrate. So, the skin gets super thin and then you get that limited time where you're just veiny and shrink wrapped and cut. You get on stage and you feel like hell, but you look amazing. Wow. Is it tiring when you're on stage to like be flexing or like do you feel like you're pushing yourself really hard? Yeah, you practice. So, every day I would do 30 minutes like at least 6 weeks leading up to the contest. So, that was seven days a week practice the posing. So, there's like seven or eight uh poses that they call. So, you see these these you see everyone do the frontal bicep or you do the most muscular like those are all part of the poses. Side chest, back double bicep, back lat spread. We have those mandatory poses that they call out and they put us in a line and they compare everyone. Then you have your free posing and whatever else, but it's mainly those seven or eight poses against the other guys in a lineup that separates you and that's how they do the judging. But it's very subjective. You know, no one's punching someone out or scoring points. They're just the judges eye those physiques and they pick out who has the best flow. See, I wonder how important size is because if I look at someone like David Laid, I'm sure you know who he is. He's like I see that physique and I'm like this in my opinion is like a perfect physique. He looks very much so human, very ripped, shredded, you know what I mean? Crazy abs, crazy pecs. What would happen do you think if he tried out for a bodybuilding competition? He would do well on a certain level. Uh remember he's a natty guy. Natty means natural, you know, not enhanced. So at levels like something like that with conditioning and certain flow to his physique at now with the different divisions in a bodybuilding contest, he'd get destroyed because he's not on the lines of bodybuilding cuz he's taller. And you know, when you're taller, you can have shorter guys that are more stockier that are filled out a little more. So now you have classic physique or men's physique, which he probably could do well in, you know, as far as like trying to stand next to someone like me. That'd be really difficult, but I mean, he's a lot younger than me and obviously he's not enhanced or anything like that. That's probably too much for me. I mean, yeah, it's too much. I will never be able to achieve that. But do you think I mean, he's not that big in person, guys. That's a very attainable for you. I could put you on a 10e program and put you get in that shape, you know? 10 week program. Think I get like that in 10 weeks? Wow. Yeah. Really? If you were dedicated. Yeah. And what would that what would that involve? Training and probably clean up the diet a lot. I don't know how strict you are in your diet, but I feel like I'm strict, but I don't see that rate of results. How many meals a day do you eat? Probably not enough. Uh, probably two to three. Not enough. Yeah. Your metabolism is not going fast enough. Yeah. Remember, the more you eat, it's like feeding wood or fire or coal to a fire, right? It more you feed it, the larger the flame gets, right? That's kind of you got to think your metabolism the same thing. So every time you shoot food at it keeps the body burning and that's how you want it. See, part of me is like I I got a bit of a belly that I got during COVID and I want to eat less to get rid of that and just to have more of like a flat stomach, but I think that doesn't coincide with, you know, building muscle. And so I'm in that weird in between where it's like I I don't want to, you know, grow out a gut. The amazing thing is even with your diet right now, if I said to you, Graham, I want you to walk your neighborhood every morning when you wake up for 30 minutes. Well, here's what I've done is almost 3 months ago, I said for the next 90 days, I want to go to the gym at least 5 to six days a week for 1 hour. And so I'm on day probably 80 something of that. And of that one hour, I always do 30 minutes of cardio. And I just track on the treadmill. Usually it burns between 250 300 calories. I've noticed a bit of a difference, but I feel like I should be noticing more. And I don't eat dessert. I I eat very little sugar. The only sugar I really eat throughout the day that I know of is probably a little bit of cream that I put in a coffee, maybe twice a day. That won't affect you. Uh but in the morning, I eat a protein bar with coffee. And that's usually all I have until probably 12, maybe 12:30. Then I'll have probably a pre-made salad at Trader Joe's or maybe some leftovers from the night before. And then it's dinner is could be mixed up between sushi steak. Your protein levels are probably too low. That's probably it. Yeah. I mean, what's your body weight today? 130. So, I would say let's say you have 100 pounds of lean muscle. Okay. If you really took the all the stuff away. So, you should take in 1.25 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass. So, you should, let's say you need 125 grams of protein. You're probably not taking in that much. Probably. You know what I mean? Even if you ate, think about it. Even if you ate 40 a meal times three, it's only 120 grams. You know, and you probably a 40 a chicken breast, 8 oz chicken breast is like 40 grams of protein, right? I mean, 12 egg whites is an egg whites like three grams of protein per egg white. So, you'd have to eat 12 egg whites to eat 36 g, right? And you're probably not eating that. So, I think you're probably if you if you bumped your protein up, even if you used a protein shake or whatever, I'd be happy I'd be happy to send you some coffee nutrition. I would love to try that. We should have brought the but we'll make sure he'll make sure we send that. I'd be happy to send Shout out your supplement companies. Yeah, Cutler Nutrition. Very easy. Yeah, there we go. What advice would you say you have for my physique if I'm trying to get that David Lelay look? Obviously, I can't get that extreme. First of all, you got to shave the arms, you know, show more muscle definition. Yeah. Well, look at look at his pictures. He's doesn't have any body hair. Leaving on my chest hair and my arm hair because it hides. Well, you you know that you know that's that's the weirdest thing. Like when I started training, you know, I remember doing the competition like you need to shave everything. Okay. Everything. Cuz remember we had to put on these little posing trunks and that was the strangest thing for me. Like it took a lot of work to shave down the body. Like you had to raise up someone do it for me and it was continuous. Once you start you can't stop like to this day like I'm still shaving my arms and my chest and whatever. I just don't let kind of grow out like that. And you know, I tried doing waxing for a while on my back and everything because once you shave your back, it's like it grows like crazy. And uh, you know, that's probably like maintenance is the hard part. But I would definitely say uh, you know, just focus on getting leaner. I mean, you're you're looking at David and saying that's in inspiring to you. Remember, it's all about being cut. And I I could tell you that both you guys need to clean your diet up a lot. like focus. If you said, "Okay, for five weeks or whatever, I'm going to stay pay attention to a good diet." You'd see a lot of progress. So, for the past couple of weeks, ever since, honestly, we had Liver King on the podcast, which was what, like a nearly a month ago, maybe? Yeah. I've been really just eating like a Chipotle bowl, which is usually what I have for lunch, and then chicken and potatoes or chicken and rice or steak. And you're training consistently? Yeah, I would say consistently. Yeah. What did the liver king teach you guys? The mo like if you walked away with one thing you got out of him on physique-wise was what? The liver. The liver. Eat the liver. Yeah. He says like basically like protein. I've never I've never had liver. You haven't? No. You does any part of you want to? Absolutely not. Yeah. Neither. Same with me. He's got crazy abs. That guy. Yeah. Have you seen his ab routine? I watched a little bit. Yeah. It's crazy. One of our influencer friends actually shot a video with him. this guy Jesse James West he's one of my favorite YouTubers I saw that video he's a lot of energy we've done a couple videos together and he uh and he kind of told me like the Liver King's team kind of like did all set up everything that was inside that video cuz normally he's like very structured with how he shoots Jesse you know he's very methodical about his approach on doing his YouTube videos he's very dedicated actually you know what's funny is that he called he was living with David and they came to Vegas and he hit me up Jesse wasn't super popular then and he said h I want to shoot a YouTube and David you know David came and he didn't work out with us but Jesse shot with us and that was at he was at 500k and he's like I'm going to hit a million by the end of the year that's my goal and I was kind of like okay yeah whatever you know and he went up to a million now he's at two but you know it's nonstop like we were just in LA last last week together shooting for Young LA and and he was like telling me I'm doing this project this project and he's he just text me yesterday and he's like, "Hey, can I get you and Ronnie Coleman together?" You know, because he shot with Ronnie Coleman recently and you know, he's always thinking like, "What's the next thing?" Yeah. But the Liver King, I mean, I'm intrigued by what he kind of puts out there and uh I still don't understand a lot of it. I mean, crazy midsection on the guy. Mhm. But are you doing abs Morris and seeing his abs? Did he sit here with his shirt off? He did. Yeah. He doesn't put on a shirt. Really? Yeah. And I was saying like even at the casino, I'm like, "You're staying at a hotel. Do they put on the shirt?" He goes, "No, I'm liver king. I don't wear and they don't care." Huh. I saw him on the strip greeting fans in a video. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he was here for. So, he did some stuff. So, so what did you learn? Liver. Liver. I mean, he he just said take what was it? Immense momentum in one direction, which is kind of what I alluded to you a little bit earlier. I honestly learned a lot, but not much of it was like about like physique or physical activity. It was more other stuff. Yeah. I think the the most surprising part was his diet. Uh was a lot of raw meats and that for me like I could like he brought out a whole plate of like there was a testicle on there, liver, heart, kidney. Did you eat it? Yeah. What did it taste like honestly? Okay. No, don't say horrible. I know you were going to say horrible. I was about to say honestly. The the testicles definitely was one of my least favorites. just flavor. I even know, you know, aside what it is. What kind of testicle? Old testicle. It had apparently been alive that morning. I mean, it was like like that. Yeah, that was pretty gross. The the kidney was really gross because that's what filters, you know, urine. So, it kind of honestly tasted like urine. The heart was They say urine's good for you to drink, though. Really? Yeah. Who says that? Like remember that Boxer was drinking his own urine? Do you know remember that when he fought Mayweather? Uhhuh. Yeah. No, he didn't win. He didn't win. Of course he didn't. No one wins against you. But yeah, the uh the liver was decent and the heart was good. The heart was honestly kind of steaky and those cuts tasted a little like sashimi. See, I don't know. Like ah man, I don't know if I could do that. You should do something with Liver King. You should I know, but I don't think I can eat that. Something together, but neither did I. I He brought it in and it was professionally prepared. like the chef, you could tell this was like like Michelin star sort of preparation that and it was cooked or No, it was raw. But they get it but they seem to get it so fresh. It's cut in these like little tiny squares. Um I think I would have had an easier time had I not known what that was. Like if they told me, "Oh, this is seafood. It's like sushi." Probably would have had an easier time. It's the mental aspect of it. See, that's the thing with me is like you asked about like eating out and what like is I just can't venture to try any like I've never had Kentucky Fried Chicken. Never had Taco Bell. Taco Bell. I had I actually had Chick-fil-A for the first time. What' you think? Weeks ago. Yeah. I kind of gave me a stomach ache to be honest. The grilled chicken or the fried? I think I got like a spicy chicken sandwich and I had the waffle fries. You like those waffle fries? They were pretty good. They were good, but like I don't know if I'll go back to be honest. Sure. Like I I I still feel like you're inhibiting yourself from enjoying life. I I am. I am. And I think it stems from how I grew up. I mean, I grew up, you know, a household, like I said, seven kids. You know, my dad My parents separated when I was four. So, my dad pretty much kind of raised my mom moved to Florida. And uh we weren't allowed to have sugar cereals. They had no McDonald's. So, you asked me about McDonald's. Like, we didn't have one locally. like we had to travel ways to do it and we go to the grocery store. My dad would cook all these huge dinners every night and uh we were very restrictive to what we had. So I guess it stems from that and I was really kind of a introvert if that makes sense where I didn't I never slept at anyone's house ever. Uh I never like I stayed out and did things with other kids but I wasn't I had like mainly two friends all through high school that were like super close to me. I mean, I was friendly with everyone, but I was just really secluded from a lot of things. I think that's, you know, how I was brought up. You should do a video with Liver King. You should have him on your podcast. Yes. If you guys did a video together or you went to his place and you did what's called the barbarian. Yep. I trained this morning for that. Yeah. This would be a video guaranteed with I don't know what that is though. That's what Jesse James West did. Oh, he did. Okay. You drag the sled with 130 lbs, 20 lb ankle weights on each hand. You're wearing a backpack that has I think 70 pounds in it and you're holding 70 lb kettle bells in each hand. You walk a mile and you can never take the backpack off with that though. I would have no fear of failing. I mean, you would be able to do it easily. You know, you say that, but just because I'm me and like what I've achieved 20 years ago, dude, is different from now, you know? I mean, I'm not the same person. Remember, I'm almost 50. So, it's a lot harder to do things in the gym. Like I pick up weight like I look at some of the weights I used to do. Like I used to take a 200lb dumbbell and hook it with my fingers like this and row it no problem. And I literally went to move 150s at the gym the other day and I thought I was going to tear my bicep still. Man, your 50 is like most people's prime prime prime at like you know 20. I know. But I'm Jay Cutler. It's different right? I mean that's the thing is when you say like how did you prepare yourself? If I used to look in the mirror and be like, "Okay, you're not normal." You know, you're Jay Cutler. It's like people used to say, "How'd you get psyched up?" And go to the gym. And sometimes it's loud music. Sometimes it's like switching gyms, having training partners. I used to fly people in and out to kind of challenge myself. But a lot of it was looking in the mirror and being like, "Okay, this is your job. This is what people expect." And I have one of those things like every weekend I travel, it's like you hear one more story of how someone was inspired by this crazy thing that I did that I have no idea. I even forgot that I did. And that's really what kind of continues uh to be a driver for me. Yeah. Did you ever have any financial goals like hit a million net worth before 30, 10 million before this age? I never really did. I mean I always said I want to retire from bodybuilding and you know not have to struggle. And I think you know there were certain things. I wanted to buy a home. You know I wanted to drive a nice car. My original goal was to buy a Corvette. driving across the desert with the top down. Like that was my dream to Cal California, listen to Journey soundtrack. I had all these like little things and I blew past all that. Uh but never uh you know although I've reached a you know financial freedom, I still to this day don't talk about if I could make this or make that. It's more you know when you have a brand and you are the brand. It's more about being recognized. I think for me if you said in in the end like what is your whole goal with this thing and I want to be spoken about as like one of the greatest bodybuilders ever and that means all around not just competitive but like giving back and people learning from and you know being a figurehead that is inspiring to people in all aspects and I feel I've kind of achieved that in a sense I mean just by the feedback that I get and my interaction on social media like I try to learn and you know I surround myself with a younger generation of people and you know that's that's kind of really you know what intrigues me now because everything is moving so fast and what a year ago is was happening is way different from today. So what's your strategy right now with social media? Do you have platforms that you prioritize? Um yeah I mean I'm still working YouTube consistently. Um, Instagram obviously has been something that was introduced to me back in 2012 and I have all my business on there. I use Facebook still. I have six and a half million on Facebook. So, I still utilize I still think that has an audience. Tik Tok I think is really been the most thing people have talked about over the the last year and I brought someone on to, you know, to help me with that to kind of understand it a little better. So, I'm just creating more informational posts now, meaning instructional and and more about mindset, uh, motivation for people and really to show like knowledge from someone that's been there, done that. So, I think the content is really, you know, and like I mentioned, the podcast is important for me because it's not just me going to the gym and visually you watching. It's like getting into the mindset, okay, how do you prepare for this? You know, I talk about my travel experiences. I talk about some finance on there. I think right now everyone's in fear of what's going to happen over the next 3 to 6 to 12 to 24 months. I mean, we don't know what direction it's going. We keep hearing all these every time I turn on YouTube and I watch a lot of finance people, all I hear about is like, "Get ready for the worst destruction ever." You could thank this guy for that. You know, they don't know what's coming. And it's like month after month, here we are and the world hasn't fallen apart yet, you know, and and we talk about, you know, I watch Vegas real estate because so many people are are moving here for the state income tax and leaving California and I mean they're going to Texas or other places to Florida, but everyone wants to buy a home. They're like, "Oh, is the crash going to come like 2008?" And I don't think we're going to see 2008 again. I was in 2008, which by the way was my biggest earning year in professional bodybuilding ever. Cuz everyone went to the gym and started buying supplements that year, you know, when they lost their jobs and they were depressed. But will we see a reduction, you know, 20% or what? I mean, I think that's what they're kind of saying. I think probably. Yeah, it depends on the area. I mean, the rates are scaring everyone, but I know people are still buying because they're like, you know what, I'll just refinance, right? They think the rates are going to come back down to two, but we never see it's like it's like gasoline going back down to three, right? Is it happen? That's what everyone is saying right now is that they're oh no, a few years they'll pivot and then I'll refinance it, you know, four or three. I don't know if that'll happen. We could stay at five, six for a while. When I when I took the loan on my home in 2007, the current home I live in, and I I paid five and a half% and back then that was an amazing rate. So when we got down to our two and a half, you know, realistically three, let's say, but it was I mean I know people talked about a 2%. Depends on what you buy to eight. Exactly. So in my my credits A+ and everything. So man, I don't know if we're going to see those days, right? I don't think so. I mean, that's kind of free money in a sense. Uh, even my one of the auto loans I had on one of my vehicles, you know, I bought a G Wagon with the benefit, tax benefit, you know, I got a 1.9% interest rate from Bank of America. Gwagon. Was that before 2021 I bought it? Okay. So, that was right as they were selling over MSRP. I got it I got it slightly over Sticker. Okay. Uh, and now it's still going way over sticker, but I financed through Mercedes for six months just to they ask you to hold that and then I refinanced with Bank of America and I got a 1.9%. Today I, you know, I I called a few months ago said, "What's the rate at 5%." Yep. So, it's inflation. I mean, if you're on there shouting about, you know, what the market's going to do? I think that's everyone's living in fear right now. And they I mean listen airline tickets I fly consistently it's like double what it was last year pandemic I remember one of my friends who had over a hundred doors you know it called me I'm so scared because you know this pandemic thing and I remember thinking oh it's going to go away and all of a sudden it's like they locked us down and it was like oh wow this is real y I never imagined in my life that the world would close. Yeah, I remember that for for months. And that's what uh for me really pushed me full-time to YouTube. Until then, I was like, you know, 80% YouTube, I was still doing 20% real estate on the side, but when everything shut down, I wentund like 10%. It was all I did. So, you benefited from it. But you just said that your physique suffered. Oh, yeah. Well, part of that was because I was I was doing so much on YouTube that I thought I'm going to put my physique aside, put like the health aspect aside because I'm going to get more ROI right now doing YouTube and like making that my focus. So, if I get an extra hour on YouTube, that to me is better than an hour of fitness. This is what I've tried to preach not to do. Your health is everything, right? Your health is everything that you like without perfect health, how successful are you? Right. I mean, well, I mean, my my thought was that I could always get back to it. Of course. I mean, that's always I think I was just like, you know, sitting home eating like all the time, but it was just instead of going to the gym for an hour, get an extra hour work. And the same same people I think they can buy a house at 7% interest rate and say, "Well, I'll get back to the lower interest rate." Right. But I have gone back to the gym, made it consistent. Uh not to the same degree as I was prior, but I'd say pretty good. And how do you feel after you train every day? Great. Do you feel like a like clarity and uh I would say 85 maybe 90% of the time I do. Yeah. Yeah. I don't notice a huge difference going into the next day. I always feel better afterwards. I don't know if I if that like carries forward through the next day. I I think it does. I haven't really noticed a huge difference. And so your positive message to anyone that watches your content, you would you say consistency is necessary because you just said you sacrifice to have be more consistent with the media, right? Yeah, it has to. Yeah. Did you say YouTube is your biggest uh asset to your success? 100%. Yeah. And but during co there was so much happening every day that I couldn't afford to miss one upload, one thing. And so that was sometimes I I even post like some like back to back every day because there were things that if I didn't talk about this, someone else was and I'm not going to get another opportunity. So Arnold Schwarzenegger said that nowadays bodybuilding is basically a bunch of like roided out people and it isn't very aesthetic anymore. Basically people see these bodies and are turned off from the sport rather than turned on to it. And I know back when you were competing in your heyday that was a lot different than what it is today. Uh what's your opinion on this? Do you think that it people have lost sight of the whole just like idea of something being aesthetic and they fill that in with just being massive? And I don't I don't think that's true necessarily. There are some what we call freaks, which is actually a good thing in bodybuilding. Uh you know, it's really it's tough for someone like Arnold who was in that 70s era to look at the physiques and think they're not going to advance. You know, it's kind of like professional football where, you know, lineman Billy broke 300 lb and now if you're not 350 or four, you know what I mean? You can't even be competitive. I think that, you know, we still have a some aesthetics, but yes, there are some mass monsters. I am victim of becoming bigger than what I probably should have, but I needed to absolutely win. I mean, I mentioned that Ronnie and myself were bigger than everyone else, and that's what kind of the judges put us in first and second place. the advancement of everything is sometimes uh not looked upon by our former champions uh to be as as productive or or attainable. There's no question uh the food has become more extreme. The supplements have advanced. The the weight equipment itself has become something that's different. Like we have way more machines like look at the leg difference from Schwarzenegger's era to now. I mean guys their legs are crazy. I mean I had some of the best legs in bodybuilding. uh where it was the very uh few people that had that kind of leg development back in the era. But they did bring back classic bodybuilding to be a little more streamlined than the open men's bodybuilding. But I would somewhat agree with Arnold but disagree in a sense like in the end. I mean it's advancement of everything and and there's a lot of variables that go into it. It's not just the steroid use. I would wouldn't look upon that. Uh there are other compounds that are being used that maybe weren't available in Arnold's era, but like he wasn't drug free himself. So I mean it's it's uh you know not everyone you know it's kind of an open field. We don't necessarily have drug testing in it. So it's easy for his perception to be like this is what causes it. But I believe that uh definitely things have advanced sometimes for the better or worse. Uh but you'd still have some aesthetics m mixed in with mass monsters too. And uh you know in the end it's it's really down to the judging and deciding who is going to be the first place winner at these major contests. If you were to pick out a defining like muscle or feature on your body that you think is like the iconic Jay Cutler muscle and then one that you think that you could have worked on more, it's the quads for sure. For me, I mean had tons of detail. I had striations. I mean the quad stomp is something I'm known for especially with the younger generation now. Uh, for me, you know, my back held me back or against Ronnie Coleman cuz he was just so advanced in the back area. Like I mentioned, the conditioning factor was always the downfall to me, meaning my consistency from show to show to have perfect conditioning. We talked about that dehydration process and, you know, making sure the muscles full enough and wrapped. Uh, that was probably the downside. I was definitely not blessed with a small waist. So, I had to offset with larger legs and larger shoulders to create, like I mentioned, that Vtaper. So, you want to have the Vtaper, you know, and the legs come out. So, it it's definitely uh, you know, like I said, everyone's going to have their strong and their weak points, if that makes sense. And when you're working out, what's your favorite workout day? Like biceps, back or legs? Because they're the most challenging. Really? I hate bice arm training. It's so boring to me cuz it's so repetitive. It's either, you know, curls or press downs or whatever else for triceps. Uh, but I love the challenging movements like the leg training. Remember, the legs are half the body and the back training, like I mentioned, I would had a weak back against some of the greats early on, so I had to really improve that. You know, Mr. Olympia is not one by anyone without a tremendous back. What do you listen to at the gym? I don't listen to anything. Really? Yeah. I mean, I half the time I don't have a headset. You know, the gym I train at doesn't have a lot of loud music. Um, sometimes I don't even hear the music. I'm so zoned in. I don't really have a playlist. I do get approached, but I train at more gyms now that I don't have that issue. Um, but I do uh like when I went to Venice last week, obviously took a million pictures when I was there. I didn't have a headset in or anything. So a lot of times I just I'm paying attention of what weights I'm pushing and my mind to muscle connections if it makes sense. U training for me now is meditation meaning like it's a time where I can kind of escape any kind of thought process and my goal to go in the gym is just to not not think about any problems or priorities. It's about putting my mind into that muscle and just working and just putting my head space like in an absent area where I don't have any stresses or have anything that's on my mind whatsoever. It's an escape. Like I get up and do my fasted cardio this morning and it's it's meditating for me. So when you say what do you listen to? I listen to all the things in my head that you know I try to escape from and just try to have a clear mind. One thing I hear a lot and one thing Liver King really emphasized when he was on our podcast is the fact that you need to get your body right before you can get your mind right because he there are a lot of parallels that are drawn between people that are like physically fit and also successful entrepreneurs or successful in whatever field that they're in. Do you find this to be true being around people that are It carries over I think if you take care of your physique and you know you you're happy. I mean, how many people wake up in the morning and look in the mirror and say, "I'm happy with the way I look." I mean, that's the knowing like my fan base. I mean, 98% of the people wake up and say, "I'm not happy with how I look." I mean, I can tell you I'm one of those people. Like, I always want to see self-improvement. So, I think that it carries over into everything that you do. So, yes, getting the body right. I mean, we mentioned the health aspect. I mean want to be healthy. Some people view health, they don't look inside, they look on the outside first and then, you know, they they concern theirelves. I mean, it should be the opposite way. But, uh, you need a lot of, like I said, it's not just like going to the gym and working out. You're not going to see automatic results. It's the nutrition and the sleep patterns and everything. So your body needs to be right in order for your mind if you know if you don't get sleep, you know, or if you don't have a way to relieve stress, how functionable is your mind going to be if you're just stressed out. I mean, that's why weight training can be so therapeutic for people. Sure, it works well for you. I mean, you know, I still have goals like I can't wait to go to the gym today. Sitting here at this this interview, I'm going to do back today, but I can't wait to train. Like if you said, "Well, you know, you've asked about like, hey, what are your goals and whatever, but my goal is to go to the gym every day and have the best workout ever." I mean, I'm going to go to the office after this, and I'm going to focus on business and do some phone calls, answer some emails I didn't get to this morning. Can you tell us your back routine? Yeah, I'm going to start with uh today I'm going to start with pull-ups. I'm going to do wide grip pull-ups, and then I'm going to do reverse grip pull downs. I'm going to do bent barbell rows, reverse grip. I'm going to do a one- arm dumbbell row, and I'm going to do seated cable rows with a closed grip. I already know cuz I already thought about this before I Wow, that was like like every day every day cuz it's always different but I already went through I visualize the day prior like what I'm going to do. So when I walk in the gym it's like it's just not even it's robotic, right? But I already visualize like how many I'm going to do 8 to 12 repetitions or whatever. I'm going to do I'm going to try to get 12 reps, but I'm going to I already know like looking I can already visualize the weight stack and putting 180 on the seated cable rows and I'm going to I'm going to do, you know, one arm rows with hundreds. Um like I already know I'm going to shoot for at least eight reps with the pull-ups, you know, body weight pull. And is there a specific workout or one rep or something that you look back on you remember that to be one of the hardest or if not the hardest thing that you've had to do? For example, like maybe you were doing bench and there was like you said when you did what was it like 500 or something for two? 550. 550 for two like that second rep right there. Or maybe you got like a nose bleed or something when you were working. No, you know I used to squat until my nose bled if that makes sense. So we had this mirror at the Gold's gym in Western Massachusetts and there was a lot of spit on the mirror because the squat wreck was up against the mirror. So the guys would, you ever see the guys squat and they they go and they and but I would actually squat until like so much blood it was like my nose would you know and I thought that was the coolest thing at 18 and you guys are sitting here like what the hell? Yeah, but you know listen that's that's what I mean like you have to be a little mentally messed up to push yourself. Think about that. I'm sitting on, you know, people look at me as like, oh, you know, Jay's a successful, you know, entrepreneur and bodybuilder, you know, one of the smarter guys in bodybuilding. And I'm sitting there telling a story how I squatted till my nose, how great that was. Like that's the levels we pushed ourselves to. That was the metric was like, "Okay, we're good." But, you know, I used to do lunges. I remember Gold's Gym Sahara Decatur. We had a Gold's gym there. It's out of business now. And I literally would drag the bar outside and I put 225 on the bar and I would do walking lunges in 120° and I thought that was the coolest thing ever. And I remember like throwing the bar off my back and trying to catch my breath and the air is so heavy because it's over 100° and you know the summers. I was training for Olympia so this was like July. Think about that. The bar would just be burning. Oh, well, it was hot, you know, but I would stay out there for maybe, you know, 15 minutes doing these lunges back and forth, you know. I would do at least 10 steps per leg. And uh I thought that was the coolest thing ever because I was striving to be the best in the world at what I did. And I used to think this is what's I'm going to think about when I stand on Olympia stage and win the title. And it's exactly what I thought about. Like I I kind of had flashbacks every time I won like of what it took to get there. I remember like being in Massachusetts trudging through the snow to get to the gym in Worcester when I first started. I remember driving to Maine and you know 2 hours up there so my nutritionist could like take my clothes off so he could see how I looked and I mean could adjust my diet and drive 2 hours home. I'd spend four hours in the car and literally 15 minutes like in his condo so he could adjust my diet and then drive back. I did that on my all my days off. I'd fly all over the country to do tissue work. I did massage therapy like neuromuscular therapy and I had therapists all over. But I had one in California. So when I moved out of Aliso Viejo and I moved to Vegas, I would fly back on my days off every week to have this guy work me for an hour and I would fly back. I mean, it would cost me $500 for the, you know, trip back and forth, but I didn't care because it was, you know, tuning my body to be better on stage. So, we talk about the prize money at the Olympia. I'd spend all that 150 or 200 on all preparations. You know, you hear about LeBron James, he spends a million a year to tune his body to be his best. Like, that was my I mean, that was my asset. So I I I figured, okay, if I could keep putting the money into it, and today I attribute a lot of that like dedication to my success of walking around without pain, still being able to train. A lot of guys in my era can't train like this. They're finished. Like they just have aches and pains and or they're just not interested. Like like I said, bodybuilding was something I loved when I was 12 and I still love it just as much today. And I don't plan on competing again, but you know, I have different goals. What's this? So, this is the newest adventure. So, this is a pet butter. So, I have one that's uh it has glucosamine and and whatever in it, but this is more of a flavored one. So, this is for dogs, you know, it's a little treat for them. So, it's it's basically healthy peanut butter cuz a lot of peanut butters don't have great ingredients, but this is the start. So, these are my two little little ones here. So, that's Daisy Kapone, by the way. Oh my gosh. So, this is my newest uh um kind of launch out the start of my pet products. Yeah, we can't say the word peanut udder. Oh, because she goes nuts. Oh, yeah. That's the one food where she just goes crazy for I want Yeah. So, when you check it out, you know, you just mix it up a little bit and uh give her a little bit each day or whatever and uh healthy fats. Can humans eat this? Of course. Yeah. It tastes really good, actually. Yes, of course. I take a I give one for the dogs and one for me. No way. Cuz I actually ran out this morning. Yeah, I literally ran out. I was like scraping every So, if you kidnap one of these, it's okay. Okay. This one actually This one has more flavor to it than that cuz that's more uh for joints and everything else that the added glucosamine. So, yeah, I'm looking at the ingredients like this sounds delicious. I would eat this. So, put this put this on your uh on your toast tomorrow morning. You know what I'm saying? Thank you. Sweet. How do you stay looking so young? It's almost 50. I mean, yeah. Your face. Yeah. Early. I don't know. Is it water as well? You're drinking. Yeah, I drink a lot of water. Uh, you know, I use sunscreen. I use a lot of lotions. I try to stay out of the sun as much as And it's crazy. I live in Vegas, right? You stay out of the sun. You know, I have a pool in my backyard, too. But I I I think, you know, I walked outside this morning. Actually, I did my cardio around my neighborhood and uh I think stress, you know, we talk about stress and I think that like I'm a very relaxed person and nothing really gets to me. Like I'm super chill and laidback and I feel that stress and I don't drink or smoke. I don't know if that has something I don't know if you ask me that question. I don't I don't know. I I feel like, you know, I see myself aging, but at the same time, I guess uh guess you're comparing me versus some other people maybe at that age. Yes. And I think that the better question is to ask those people why look, right? That's good. Cool. Is there anything else, Jack? No, let me let me double check. Make sure I hit every one of these. Yeah. Hey, that's it. Is there anything else you want to talk about? No, I mean, you know, I appreciate you guys having me on and like I said, I've I'm always interested. It's so cool that you're local here. Like, you know, and I I wish when you met me originally, you would have said, "Hey, I I'm actually on YouTube or, you know, maybe at the time you weren't interested in doing a a video, but I was I was I messaged you right afterwards." Oh, really? Okay. So, you know, it's just like I said, uh, you know, my message to everyone is, you know, the consistency in life. And I think that if you asked me like what what kind of drives me is, you know, having the feedback. Remember, I travel so much and I get feedback from people on, you know, why why they follow me. And sometimes I ask people, how do you know who I am? Because they're a younger demographic or they look like they necessarily don't work out, right? And it's just the smallest thing like I picked up a magazine or I saw something on social media and it's it's relating to like something that I did in my life. And I think that's the coolest thing ever because selfishly I worked to become the best bodybuilder in the world. And honestly, all I cared about was, you know, in the beginning getting featured in books, uh, you know, winning on stage, having all these I have a crazy trophy room at my house. And I look around that room and I don't get the satisfaction I did 20 years ago because I'm not in it anymore. And I think that, you know, there's going to be more champions that come along in bodybuilding, but there's going to be more people in life that, you know, follow people on different aspects. And I think it's a unique opportunity for me to have the platforms that I do. It's very interesting to see someone like yourself that I'm probably sure that you never imagined it would be to this level, right? So, we keep spreading our messages and, you know, I'm all about positivity and, you know, just consistency with what you do. One thing I can say about content and messages, it has to be constant. Mh. And I think that someone listening to this will learn that, you know, much driven and focused I was like it was a lot of consistency, right? In life and in general. So relationships, you know, lifestyle, everything is constant. Appreciate you guys having me. You're welcome. We'll link to everything down below in the description. Great meeting you. Really appreciate it. And I can't wait to hear about this barbarian challenge. I can't wait to uh maybe see the physique uh progression. You know, don't don't let him kind of beat you as far as I was trained. This morning I was dragging the sled. I was wearing the backpack. We're Yeah. Kettle bells and hands. 57 pound war. So, don't let me down. So, I expect you to complete the challenge when it Well, you said January, right? January. And you're going to film it, right? Yeah. I can't wait to see it. Yeah. Cool. Thanks, man. If you want the connection to Liver King, just let us know, too. I appreciate that so much. Knows who I am, so That was amazing. Holy cow. You want to get the