Meet The $100,000,000 Woman Who Owns Nothing | Leila Hormozi

Welcome to the Ice Coffee Hour. My name is Leila Hormozi, and in the last 2 years, this podcast has made over 2 million in revenue from AdSense. I wish. It's close. That would be really nice. Wouldn't it? What's the number, Graham? $239,000. [snorts] Oh, wow. I was so far off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, great guess nonetheless. Thank you so much for coming on, Leila. We got a lot to get into, and people may recognize your last name, Hormozi. We had on Alex twice previously, and I got really excited to have you on cuz someone told me, I don't remember exactly who it was. It was a business person, entrepreneur person. They said, "Leila Hormozi is a savant in business and entrepreneurship." They said, "It could be looked over sometimes, but she is a genius in it." And I'm like, "You know what? That makes total sense. Of course you would be, right?" And I think it'd be interesting to bring you on here, tell your story, how you got to where you are today, and yeah. Yeah, everyone that I've talked to, by the way, is like, "Oh, you had Alex on. Just wait until you have Leila on." Yeah. Just wait. Like It's even better. put any pressure on you or anything. Yeah, we're not setting the bar too high. But, not one person has said anything less than like she's a genius. You have to talk to her. You have to have her on the podcast. So, here we are. Okay, no pressure. [laughter] No pressure at all. But, yeah. So, thank you so much for coming. Give us a little bit of your backstory. Yeah. And what led up to everything that has conspired so far. Mhm. Yeah, so if we rewind back, just to give context, I think sometimes it's you start a little bit sooner. So, I'll go back to when I was in high school. So, high school started getting into fitness. I was always overweight as a kid, and so I kind of pursued figuring out, you know, food, working out, all that stuff, and that caught my interest when I was like 13. And so, I actually didn't stick with really any sports. I started going to the gym and like lifting by myself. And so, that was really the only form of like physical fitness that I did. And then when I was around, I want to say like I learned enough that then when I was at the age of like 18, 19, I ended up losing like 85 lbs. And so, first, I use that as context because I think going through like a fitness transformation, losing a ton of weight like that, and like changing your identity is really similar to becoming, you know, someone who's successful in business, right? It's like becoming successful in one area of your life kind of translates over to the other. And so, then I went to college for exercise science, thinking that I would attain some kind of skill set that would allow me to like one day have a business, which was very wrong. And so, I went to school, and I think like 2 years in, I realized like this is not going to do anything for me. And so, when I went to college and I realized it was basically useless and there was nothing for me to learn. I started, you know, investing myself. So, I started listening to like Tony Robbins, Jim Rohn, and I started really paying attention like what do I want to do when I get out of here because I kind of was just finishing it for the sake of finishing it. Like my dad was a professor, and so I got like I literally paid like 25% tuition because he worked there. So, it was like, you know, I just Honestly, I didn't take it seriously. I wasn't like a bad student, but I also wasn't like super good. I just like thought it was useless, and I was like, "I can learn more on my own and from other people that I'm studying right now." And so, I did a lot more of that, and then I knew that I wanted to compete in fitness and move out to California. And so, I graduated college, and I was like, "Okay, I understand everything about the human body." Very useless. Like I got that by now. It's like I'd read enough books that I was like, "This isn't really going to help me a ton because that can only take me so far. I need to learn how to like build a business and market and sell." So, I lived in Michigan at that point in time, and I was like pretty much everyone there was like, from at least the town that I was in, it's like, "Okay, you're either going to like you know, maybe take over the small business of your parent, you know, work at Stryker, or like work at one of the big automobile places in Detroit." Like it wasn't a lot of opportunity. Mhm. At least nothing that I wanted to do or apply myself. I didn't see myself in big corporate. So, I packed up my Prius at the time. Nice. And I It was 2 days after I graduated college. I just drove out to California and got some disgusting, you know, apartment that was like as cheap as I could find that I pulled up and I was like, "Oh, this is in the ghetto. Great. This is good for like a single, you know, like 21-year-old girl." Um and I moved there, and then I was like, "Okay, I need to get a job within walking distance cuz I don't want to pay for gas too much cuz like I have like $8,000 at this point, which when rent is like 1,500 a month, you're like, "Okay, this isn't going to last too long with like food and all the other things." So, I went and I applied to every gym nearby, and I was like, "I'll just start working at a gym at first because like I know I could get a job at a gym, and then I'll learn sales. I'll learn sales for the gym, and then eventually I'll learn more about business and have my own business." I didn't know what kind of business, but I just knew I wanted some kind of business. So, I ended up getting a job at all the places I applied, and so I tried like a couple of them out for a couple weeks, and I ended up staying with 24 Hour Fitness. Why are you looking at me like that? I'm I'm just curious, why 24 Hour Fitness out of all of the the other locations? Well, I won't say the name of some of them, but like one of them I went to, and you know, within like the first few days, I was like, "Oh, you know, they were basically like, "Hey, you need to pull down your shirt a little bit, hike up those shorts, and you're going to get those Indian men over there." And I was like, "That's not how I flow, man." So, like I get that that's like extremely Mhm. um advantageous in the fitness industry. Like a lot of women are totally fine with doing that, and like I don't judge them for doing that. That's just like not me. I just never want to do that. That's not how I want to Like I want to prove that I'm good at business, not that I can use my body to get business. Mhm. Um so, I actually ended up sticking with 24 because I really liked the manager there. He was really encouraging, and he was like, "Dude, I can train you so much, and like I can, you know, teach you my skill set." And he was like He'd basically taken that gym and made it like the top 24 Hour Fitness for personal training. So, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to learn how to sell here." And so, I ended up going there, and within the first you know, basically there was like 20 other people that they hired around the same time, and I remember they told me they're like, "You need to go out and get referrals. You need to get like I don't remember if it was like 15 or 20 referrals." I didn't even know if that was a lot or not at that point in time. But, basically, in order to do that, you have to go up to everyone in the gym and just ask for someone's like name and phone number. And I had no idea at the time that it was even hard to do that or like a thing. And so, I think it's really interesting because a lot of people say like, "Oh, I'm bad at sales." And I'm like, "But if you don't know you're selling," which I didn't know I was like selling or getting lead at that point in time, it wasn't even that hard. And so, I ended up being the person that collected the most. And so, whatever, I got the job. Referrals to what? Uh referrals for like from members of the gym for people that would be interested in joining the gym. What what was your technique in doing that? Was it just walking up like, "Hey, man, how's it going? Uh you got a friend? Do you have friends? Do you have Do you have any friends? Well, like how do you [laughter] How do you How do you do it? Like what made you stand out when you were doing that? I honestly just didn't think it was weird. Okay. Like I just moved there. I was like, "I have nothing to lose. These people don't know me. I have no reputation here. Like what am I going to do? Fail?" I mean, and that's There were two girls that were like crying outside the building. I was like, I went up to them like, "Why are you crying?" They're like, "I don't want to go talk to strangers." And I was like, "Jesus. Like I I just don't want to be that person." So, I was like, "I'm just going to go up, and I'm just going to be like, 'Hey, my name's Leila. I'm new here. I'm curious if you have any friends that are interested in joining the gym.'" That's it. Like just nice and not weird, you know? I think a lot of people get like really weird cuz they're nervous, and then it makes it worse. Yeah. Um So, anyways, I ended up working there for I don't know, maybe like 18 months. Um And then I realized, you know, it was basically like as soon as you sell enough people that you're full, which became my roster, like my roster was full, then they just have you, you know, selling for other people. And I was like, "This is a waste of my time." Like it's basically like come in as early as possible before you're training, you know, eight sessions a day, sell for other people, build up their rosters. And I was like, "I don't want to do that." Did you get paid to beef up other people's rosters? I mean, yeah, you do get paid for it, but you don't get paid ongoing, so it's not very appealing to me. And I also didn't think a lot of the trainers were like good. Okay. You know. Yeah. Um it didn't feel ethical. And so, I was like, "Okay." One thing that I learned from the book Rich Dad Poor Dad, I I read that like in the back room of the training. I remember it said like, "Work to learn, not to make money when you're young." And so, I was like, "Okay, I have learned enough here. I get it. I get how this works. I don't want to move up the corporate ladder." They like tried to get me to do all that, and I was like, "That sounds horrible." And so, I was like, "Okay, I heard about this guy who had this really great gym, and people are like he's like a fantastic leader, and he really knows how to run a business, and like he has a ton of clients." And I was like, "Oh, I want to go learn from that guy." And so, I ended up reaching out to him I want to say like 18 months into working at 24. And then, you know, didn't interview, did a couple, and it was obvious we got along really well. And so, I went and worked at his gym, and at the same time I started building up a like a roster of online clients because my former coach for cuz I competed in bikini competitions, she was like, "You should do this, too. I'll feed you a few clients, and then you bring your own." And so, I was like, "Okay." So, then I started kind of doing both, like learning from her in terms of like online and how that works and how you like get clients online. Um and then learning from him in terms of like how do you run a business, which that's what I really got to see when I moved there. And what it allowed me to see was that really interestingly enough is that the same effort it takes to build a small business, it's the same effort to take a big business. And so, looking at like 24 Hour and looking at the small business, I was like it's almost harder to have a small business even. Because there's less opportunity for people. So, like less people want to work there because it's a smaller business, so they they have less opportunity or less runway to like build something for themselves in there. You know what I mean? So, you see a lot of turn in small businesses, which makes sense because they're small, so like the vision has to be small as well. So, if people have big vision for themselves, they don't want to work at a small business, which is interesting. Um So, anyways, I worked there, and then about not long into it, like I want to say 7 months, I was on Bumble, and I basically at this point, I was like, "Man, I've been single for a little while." I'd been dating when I was in Michigan. When I went to California, I was like, "I just want to build up my career. Like I want to be successful." And that was all I really cared about. So, I didn't really care about dating, and I didn't really like the guys in the area either cuz they just wanted some girl that would like shut up and sit and look pretty, and that's not really me. Mhm. I got on Bumble, and I remember my sales manager was like, "Listen." He's like, "This is just like sales. He's like, it's a numbers game." And I was like, "That's completely true." And so, I committed to basically like every day when I had lunch, I was like, "I'll sit and I'll just swipe for 30 minutes." Just like that's it. It's just like swiping and deciding. And so, I did that, and I went on gosh, I think I I would did this for like I don't even know how long until I finally met Alex. I think it was like maybe 13 or 14 months. How many dates was that in 13, 14 months? I mean, at least one a week. So, that's a lot. It's a lot. Wow. How many of those resulted in in a second date? Not many. Really? Okay. Maybe like three. Okay. Yeah, there was like one guy, you know, I went on like maybe like eight or nine dates with him, like, you know, just that kind of stuff, but Okay. Yeah, not too many. What did you learn going on all of these dates? People are weird. No, I'm kidding. People [laughter] [gasps] Uh I mean, I think what it reinforced for me is just that it is an opportunity. Like, a lot of people are like, I just You know, you hear women all the time. They're like, I just can't find a man. I'm like, how hard have you tried? Like, did you swipe for 14 months? Oh, that's Probably not. I think also what I learned is like most people are not picky in terms of what they look for in a significant other. Because most guys were like, well, we're going to go on another date. And I was like, no. And they were like, what? I'm like, oh, you don't want what I want. Like, this is not a match. This is clearly not a match. But, they were like totally okay with that. And I was like, that's so odd. Do you know what you're looking for? Like, have you thought about what you want in this person? And it's like, I would ask them. I'd be like, have you thought about what you want in like a a girlfriend? And they're like, I mean, you're great you look good, you talk You look good, you talk. Hey. I don't know. I was like, okay. And so, I think I was just looking for something a little more specific. Which like, I always knew I was like, I want someone that's equally as powerful. Like, I don't want to be In every relationship before I met Alex, I was always like the dominant one in the relationship. And I realized I was like, I don't really want that. I want someone who's almost more dominant than me or at least could be equally powerful. And I'm like, that is something cool. And I think when that was probably also when like power couple started trending on Instagram and stuff and Twitter. Um and so, that was what I was really looking for. And so, at this point, you know, basically, what happened was I swiped uh on Alex and he messaged me or no, I messaged him cuz it was Bumble. And so, the girl messages the guy first. And then, you know, he it was basically like, he's like, this is stupid being on this platform. Let's talk on the phone. I was like, amazing. I don't want to talk on this platform either. It's such a waste of time. And so, he called me and we talked for like 20 minutes and he was like, I consider this to be like our first date. And I was like, amazing. This is so efficient. So, basically, we got like all the questions out of This is very efficient. So efficient. Did he Did he have a checklist? What did he say to you? I feel like he must have had like a Like, what did you guys talk about? Yeah. Um I think it was mostly like your qualifications? What did [laughter] you How many hours a day do you work? Yeah, I think it's What's your sales to, you know, close ratio? Yeah, right. Uh you know, it was like, do you want kids? Do you want to get married? What do you see for your life? Like, all the basic questions that that would be reasons that people would break up later that they don't talk about in the beginning. We just talked about that on the first phone call. And so, you know, some of it we weren't completely aligned on it at that point in time, but we found like found each other enough interesting that I think we were like, yeah, let's go on a date. So, then it was just like, let's go meet for froyo tomorrow. You kind of went with the flow and Alex kind of initiated that phone call thing. I would imagine being a guy on a dating app, that's not a very effective way to to find a significant other. Just immediately ask for a phone call and ask questions, like aspirations in life. I don't know. I mean, It might be. I don't know. You are weeding out all of the people that that like you wouldn't want to be with. Also like, I mean, think about like I don't know. I think also like how attractive someone is is going to have something to do with it, too, cuz like a lot of women will put up with [ __ ] and a lot of guys will put up with [ __ ] if somebody's good looking. That's a good point. A dating app would do really well if they had a questionnaire that you would fill out first that would filter out stuff like that. Like, do you want to get married? Do you want to have kids? Dude, they have those, though. They do? Yeah, like match.com and Plenty of Fish and all that Yeah, I guess so. But, like a like a like a Tinder No, no, nobody uses eHarmony or your match.com. No, I don't think so. But, like for a Tinder, if you just 10 questions, right? Like, what are your political views? Would you date someone with differing viewpoint? Like, stuff like that, right? Yeah. Wouldn't that do well? Yeah. what I think would be really really cool? Um I'm not single, I'm married now, but um I'm never the type of person that would go to bars or clubs and everybody's meeting people there. And I also don't like like online places, but I think it'd be cool if you went to a place and like uh I don't It could be like fun, too. So, uh it's like a restaurant, but maybe you're seated with other people. And it you could do like single matching or you could do like group matching and meet new friends or something. I don't know. Something like that I think would be cool for the friend match? Uh kind of, yeah, but in person, yeah. That makes sense. I would probably attend that. Huh? It It's It could also be used for like meeting potential dates, too, cuz you could do like a just like a two-seater table, you know? You could be single and then have another single person. Or you can go with a group of friends and meet, you know, more friends and get to know about them over dinner cuz I don't go to clubs and stuff, so. lovely, actually. I like doing the online stuff. It is efficient. Yeah, you just scope people out ahead of time. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's fair. So, tell us more about this call. So, after the call, he's like, we already did the first date. The second date? Yeah, so then we went for froyo the next day, which I tried to get out of and he was like, no. Why did you try to get out of it? I was I said I was sick or something. I think I was hungover. [laughter] Really? It had nothing to do with Alex. So, you were hungover, you said you were sick I literally never drank and it was like a friend's birthday and it was the first time in like 18 months I drank anything. So, I was like, I'm sick. He's like, you sound fine. I was like, okay. I just liked how assertive he was. I was like, I'm so sick. sound fine, let's go? Yeah. [laughter] That sounds like him, though. That sounds just like him, but still it's like it baffles me every time I [laughter] Could you get away with that, Jack? Like, no, you sound fine, let's go. I like that. Jack could not get away with that. I don't think I could do that. You have to have the confidence to do that. Think about this, right? Like, I'm a woman who like I've been looking for a man who can actually like be more assertive with me. Everyone I've dated has been passive. I've always over-dominate those people. So, like, to have someone who's finally like, no, I we're going to go do this. And I'm like, I like that. It's nice. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so he ended up not forcing you, but like really compelling Yes, so selling [clears throat] you into this this froyo, right? Yeah. Yeah, so then we went to froyo the next day and um we didn't talk about like relationships at all. We actually just talked about business all the time. So, we like walked for 4 hours. We had the froyo. I don't even think he liked me in the very beginning, actually. Actually, I know he didn't because he walked up and I have a giant back tattoo. And he saw my back tattoo and he said hi. He was like, hey. And I was like, no smile? I was like, this is so odd, right? And I was like, maybe he's having a bad day. I don't know. And then we went inside and he ate and then afterwards I find out, too, that, you know, when his blood sugar is low, he's very cranky. So, I think after he ate it, it helped. But, then he told me he's like, why do you have a giant back tattoo? And I was like, I don't know. I was 18. Yeah. So, I like getting it. Um And what was his response to that? Shrugged it off, I think. All right. Okay. He's like, whatever. I'm here, right? Imagine he's like, you could get that removed. [laughter] What are your plans tomorrow? You can get that removed, yeah. Yeah, I met his dad the first time I met his dad. He came from behind. He sees me. He goes, we can get this removed. Doesn't even say hi. Not like hi, how are you? He just goes, we can get this removed. [laughter] Which by the way, know where he where Alex gets it from. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did Have you gotten it removed? No, dude. I went through like one session and the guy was like, he was like, well, we could do it now, uh but you won't be numb. But, like, if you come back, you know, we can numb it, but it's going to be a few weeks out cuz I'm booked. I was like, how bad is it? He was like, it's not that bad, you know? And I was like, okay, it's it's only my whole back. Like, let's just try. So, he did like a little thing and I was like, wow, that's terrible. Then I was like, just do it. So, I sat there and like, no, it was it was the worst pain I've ever had in my life. I always thought that they should have just one massive laser for something like that instead of doing it every time. And it's just like, you know, and it just does the entire session right there, you know? You bite on a towel or something. He just knocked me out. Like, this is actually like pretty aggressive. Feels like bacon grease is just popping on your back. Really? That's what it feels like? Yeah, identical. I've always been so curious in what it's like. Oh, I would not. I was like, I must Yeah. Numbing cuticle cream is like I get those videos recommended to me on TikTok now. Cuz I started watching them. It gets so addictive to be like like they just go through the Like, I want to just watch it done. You know? [laughter] It's It's just interesting, yeah. up and it was just sweat like and Alex was like, he almost told the guy to stop cuz he was there and I was just like convulsing because it like the way that it it hits your nerves and so, you just like you like flop flop thing like straight up shoulders to like, you know, Yeah, yeah, it's angel wings. So, super tacky. So, Alex, when he was on here, I think he mentioned that pretty early on in the first couple dates. I think I think he might have said like the second date, um he said that he had you like do something for for like a business he was running or something and uh that you just like kind of went along with it. So, how did that come up? What did you think going on, you know, one of the first dates with this person and just being like told like, hey, I'm working on this. You want to do this with me? Yeah, how did that make you feel and and did you feel intimidated or did you think did you like that he took charge? Um intimidated, [clears throat] no. I actually was like, he asked me to pick up all the cash from his That's what it was, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I more like called him and I was like, bro, I was like, you don't even know me. I was like, why are you asking me to pick up the cash? I was like, I'm I'm happy cuz he was out of town. He was like, I have to drop by the bank by this day. Do you think you could help me out? And I was like, sure, but like, I that's a lot of money. Like, are you trust You don't even know me. And he was like, I know you won't steal. And I was like, interesting. And I picked up the money. I was like, that's a lot of money. Like, if I were not a good person, I was like, I don't How does he even know? So, I mentioned to Alex, I kind of thought, you know, that was him being like, yeah, pick up my cash from the gym. Pick up my cash. [laughter] Oh, 100 grand here. This guy's really killing it, you know? You take it to the bank. Do you think you What Was it just he needed a hand with this? I mean, I think that he was trying to figure out if he wanted He was like, cuz you know, basically, on the first date, he's like, we should work together. Like, I want to start this new business. You seem like you can sell and you understand business and you like all this. He's like, you should do it with me. And I was like, we just met. Like, I just feel like I I was like, this is a lot. Like, I'm doing these other things. I'm not sure. Um and so, I think he like kept slowly trying to just like get me to like start working and doing stuff with him. So, I feel like it was a little bit of that and just like necessity. Um like, I don't think like we both didn't have like a ton of friends at that point in time. So, it was like, when we go on three dates, might as well. Did you worry that maybe there's something illegal going on? Like, he's having you go and pick up cash from different locations and like bring it somewhere? Did that that never cross your mind? No, they were gyms. I like went in, there's like people training people. Gym, yeah. [laughter] That's the cover, right? Yeah, 100% yeah. Interesting. Real Alex Earl. Wow, I didn't even realize that right. But first, Alex and I want to thank today's sponsor MooMoo. MooMoo helps you monitor market movements, perform deep technical analysis, screen for stocks that you like, and it gives you a community where traders can exchange ideas. Another great feature is you also get access to global assets, meaning you'll be able to trade in Hong Kong and the US stock market all from the same app. And that's actually really cool for me because there are some stocks on the Hong Kong market that I would love to buy. And best of all, when you deposit just $100, MooMoo will give you up to seven free stocks. Each stock is worth at least $8 all the way up to 2500. So, it's literally free money. They also have a 24/7 real-time financial news page, so you can keep up-to-date with all that finance news you might need for your trades. From places like Bloomberg, Dow Jones, Reuters, CNBC, and some other credible news sources. All in one place. MooMoo even has a 24/7 online customer service line where you can live chat with their team if you ever need anything. So, get up to 10 free stocks from MooMoo using the link down below in the description. Again, guys, the link is down below in the description to get up to 10 free stocks. Thank you so much MooMoo and back to the podcast. So, that was like the second date ever basically. He already hired you to to go pick up some cash for him. And then how did this evolve into what it is today and now you guys are building these crazy huge businesses? Yeah, I mean I think, you know, basically we started Gym Launch and after Alex got rid of all his other businesses cuz he had like a bajillion um and that was very like it took a ton of attention from him. And so I actually end up, you know, fast forward, I end up 6 weeks into us knowing each other uh quitting the gyms I was at, uh stopping anything with online personal training, and I just went all in on Gym Launch. Um and then I think it took him probably close to like a year to shed everything that he was doing. Um but he did because it was also like you know every time that he like was like I don't know if I want to risk this. Like did I quit my job? And like I gave away all my clients to do this cuz of this idea. And so I think it was it was really cool once he finally got those things off his plate and then we realized that we have really great complementary skill sets. And I think that evolved over time cuz in the beginning it was like I we both could kind of do the same thing, so we just split stuff up. And then as Gym Launch ended up taking off, which it was just a concept for 18 months, you know, it was basically just like eating [ __ ] And then 18 months in and we changed the model and then it just took off, you know, we stopped flying people out to the gyms and instead we started we turned it into basically uh like an education business or a licensing model where we licensed the IP to them and then we coached them through the program. And that was when we said, "Okay, we're not going to be able to do the same thing and split it anymore. We're going to kind of split roles because we understand that's what a business needs in order to function." And so that's when basically, you know, we wrote everything on a whiteboard that happens with the business and it was like marketing, sales, finance, HR, ops, you know, customer success, I tech, all that. And then uh one of our friends just circled marketing and was like, "This is Alex and then all the rest is Leila." And they were like, "That's how you split it." And I was like, "Okay." And and that was what kind of stemmed how we work together and then like me going into learning the other parts of a business because I understood marketing and sales fairly well at that point. Not as well as him because he had his six gyms, right? So, he had to market and sell for those. But I understood it better than most people. Um but I didn't understand literally anything else. And so that's when I just went into learning and like investing in, you know, reading books and studying like how do you run the rest of a business? How do you grow and scale a business? Um and that became kind of my hat and then his hat, you know, continued and always went further into marketing. And it's just worked incredibly well and like we actually really enjoy doing it together. And so we just haven't stopped. At what point did you guys start like dating though cuz it seems like in the beginning it was like a business venture. I mean it's kind of weird honestly because [sighs] like we were dating during the whole first year, but like more working together. Listen, this is the thing. Me and Alex both our ambitions are always going to be what's most important to both of us. And so I think until we realized that we were both useful in terms of helping each other achieve our ambitions, it's kind of like our ambitions are always going to be first. But once you realize that person's going to actually help you achieve your ambitions, putting that person first and partnering with them, putting the partnership first becomes more of a priority. Does that make sense? Mhm. Yeah. And how long would you say it took for that to that to occur where you put each other before the ambition? Maybe 2 and 1/2 years. Wow. 2 and 1/2 years. It's not like a normal relationship, which I'm like totally aware of, but it works. Yeah. So, how did you then scale this business? And what what was your role exactly? Yeah. Uh so we had the titles of co-CEOs. And so how we divided it was really Alex is top of funnel, so he's going to make it rain, right? That's always what Alex is going to do. Um in Gym Launch specifically, Alex also was like the face of the product for the beginning. So, until we brought in like coaches and had them basically redo all the product, he was the face of the product. So, he was like in all the videos. So, Alex is in all the videos, he was running the marketing, and I did the rest of it. And so that's how we've always split it because he's definitely somebody who like he would need to focus on one thing. So, it's like I always in any business that we start, I'm like I'm going to try and get Alex like in a corner focusing on one thing cuz that's what he likes doing. Like he likes writing his books, he likes promoting, he likes making content, like he likes doing that stuff. I like the rest of it. I like the people stuff, I like building teams, I like hiring leaders, I like doing all those things. And so that's how we've run all of the businesses. In terms of Gym Launch, it was a little bit in the beginning of us overlapping Mhm. and then learning that we had to let go of things in order to be more effective just as a business, you know, it's like we had to define our own roles, have our own job descriptions, you know, basically like if you look at if we weren't in a relationship, how would we run the business? That's just what we did because we're like that's going to make the business successful [clears throat] as if we're partners that we clearly define our roles and then we give each other autonomy to make decisions in those areas. Does that make sense? Yeah. How often do you guys get in disagreements? And if you are at a stalemate, who makes that decision? We actually were given a really great piece of advice early on, which was if you don't agree, don't move forward. And so people ask us that all the time, especially if they're interested in working for us. They're like, "How do you guys as co-founders and as married a married couple like make decisions?" We're like, "There's an honestly not one like final decision-maker. We just wait until we agree on something." Like we continue to work the idea or the problem until we both like it and then we move forward. And that means like I I can think of the biggest time that we had a disagreement was with Alan launching the software company. Um which I think I've talked about this before, but basically like I just when we had a minimum viable product, I looked at everything that had to happen in order to make it a scalable business and I was like I don't think it's worth it. I don't I think we're going to incur like millions of We'd already put like $4 million into this thing. I was like it's going to cost way more and I don't think that we're going to see the return we want and the market moves so fast in tech and tech is not our strong suit that I didn't believe it was like a great, you know, venture and he was like I think it is and it cuz he's always more optimistic, I'm usually more pessimistic. And so we like locked ourselves in a room for like 3 days and then finally I was like, "Screw it. Like okay, the the deal was that we would launch it and we would try and build it and scale it, but if it didn't become profitable within 4 months, we would shut it down." And so like it's kind of funny because literally like at month two, I was like, "Dude, it's not looking good." You know. Yeah. He just like dove in and it became extremely profitable. Um and so we ended up growing it to an extent and then selling it, but we sold it because again, it just wasn't our strong suit. Sure. So, we always look back, we're like who was right, who was wrong? It's like neither nor, right? But um But it did make money. So, it made a profit, okay. yeah. It ended up doing that. It was just very uh painful is probably the right word because we don't have we're not like technical experts. You know, like I'm great at running a business and the operations side of things and he's great at marketing and there was no product person. Yeah. And so if we had started with a product person, I think it would have done like I think it would have crushed. Um but we just we didn't do that. We didn't know. Yeah. Then what about the decision to sell everything, scale back? How involved were you in that process? What were your thoughts on that? Super involved. Um I actually, you know, I think that he probably wanted to like sell the house before me. Um I think part of it was like wanting to feel like like I had for a long time or at least for like a few years of our marriage, cuz it's only been like 6 years. Uh you know, I had this image of like I want to be like of the perfect CEO, the perfect wife, the perfect, you know, employer, the perfect boss, like all these things. And part of being like the perfect wife and the perfect like I don't know, just human that I was envisioning was like having this huge house that was like very impressive that people could walk into. And so I think finally what was like the tipping point for me was realizing how much of my attention was going to that house. And I think one of my friends I was talking to her one day about it and she's like, "Do you know how much more valuable your attention is on the business?" And I was like, "I agree with you." And so I think at that point then it just became a nuisance to me because I was like I'm so sick of taking care of this. Like I'm not a traditional wife. And I think it was like I resisted that for a long time because I'm around all these other wives who like they don't run businesses, they don't they're like they run a business with their husband, but like they don't run the business with their husbands. They're actually like doing something else and like they have lots of free time to take care of the house, which is great. That's just not me. And I think for a long time I didn't accept that about myself. Once I accepted it, I was like, "Screw this." I was like, "I'm not cooking dinner anymore. I don't want this house. I don't want this car cuz I don't want to take care of this And so now I realize there are other other ways to do that. But I in hindsight, I'm glad that we did it cuz it was like a fresh start. And it's also because like you know, we knew that we were going to sell the businesses and I was like I want a fresh start. Like I feel like I'm like Gym Launch Leila in this house and acquisition.com Leila doesn't live in this house. She doesn't do this [ __ ] She doesn't cook this dinner like this. She doesn't do any of this. And so it's much easier to change your life if you change your environment. At least we both tend to think that. And so, you know, moving, selling the house, getting rid of all cars and everything, like just doing a fresh start, I think it was like really good for turning the page to the next chapter. Yeah. And now you're living in middle of Las Vegas strip. What is that like? It was awful at first. yeah. I didn't like it at all. But Alex had always wanted to try Las Vegas and I was like, "Listen, I'm flexible." And like I just always am one of those people I'm like, "I'm not going to not try something once." So we got like a lease and I was like, "What is it? I can do anything for a year." Um and so we moved there. At first I didn't like it because it was very loud and very like busy. Mhm. Um and now it's odd. It's like I actually really like it. Really? Yeah. What do you like the most about it? Everybody always comes to Las Vegas and everybody always stays on the strip. So the amount of like networking, the amount of people that we can see and things that we can do, the amount of activities that there are that you can do on the strip. I actually really like that. And so it's like if people come in, you know, you you know where to take them, you know what to do. There's lots that you can do. You don't have to like entertain people in your home. And I love being able to walk to everything. versus you know, we were kind of isolated in the suburbs before when we were in Austin, which I was not a big fan of. Mhm. Yeah, it was I would find it so weird just to like take an escalator or or take an elevator down and like there's thousands of people that are just a few stories below you. It is a little weird but here's the thing at the same time. Yeah. Yeah, people think of the strip they think of like, you know, the Mirage and like like we live in the other side which is a little nicer, a little more quiet. So it's like our like very intermediate surrounding area is more of the nicer side of the strip. Mhm. Which I don't want to talk about what it is but yeah. That's fair. I want to talk a little bit more about business operations because you say that's kind of what you do with Now it's acquisition.com, previously was Gym Launch. Yeah. What do you think you're uniquely good at within business operations and how did you get good at those things? You said hiring was one of them you think that you're Yeah, I think I think it's a couple I think probably good at picking people. I think I'm fairly probably more competent than most people at hiring, for sure. Um and then also managing people. Like I really think that's it. I think it's just like it's building the team, right? And I think that doing that and aligning it with the strategy of the business is something that I feel really good at doing. Like I can I know where the business our projections are for like 3 to 5 years from now and I'm like, "Oh, I know what the team's going to look like." Like I can map it out on a piece of paper and do that. I would say that's probably like my bigger advantage. Um I'd be interested if what my team would say actually. I'm like, "Hmm, what would they say?" [snorts] What do you look for in a person? Like is there a quality? Yeah. And how do you build out the team and the culture of the team? Yeah. It starts with you, which is like the weird Okay, what I hate is that there's like an art and a science to this, right? The culture is the art side. And I think that a lot of people there is a obviously science there's like you can do these things but if the heart isn't there and the intention isn't there then it's not going to happen. And so I think a lot of times it's very misconstrued because people see like a Jeff Bezos or an Elon Musk and they're like, "Oh, the culture and all these things." I'm like, "But he's he's honestly an outlier. Most people that have very big businesses are just people of like elite character." Because people want to people that have elite talent want to work for people with elite character, right? So if you think about it like I think about my job, I don't need to be the smartest person in the room but I need to be of sound enough mind and competent enough that the smartest person in the room wants to work for me. And that I have created a big enough vision that their vision for however smart they are can fit within mine. So I look at that as my job. I'm like, "That's what I do." Um and I think that when you think about building a culture, often times it's just it continues the culture it's like you start at the top and it just continues to dilute all the way down. And the culture is really just the mission and the vision and the values of the co-founder or of the founder or of the person that's, you know, whatever head honcho of the business whatever you want to call them. Right? And so it just continues to drip down and so the more potent you can be in terms of how you exemplify those values and that mission and the more that you can repeat it over and over again, the stronger a culture you're going to have because it's going to the next level is going to be like a little diluted and then like a little more diluted and then like a little more. So the bigger the organization that's why you see that people lose the mission and the values. It's unless you make it an immense effort. And it starts with the person at the top, unfortunately. It's like nobody's going to exemplify those values more than the person at the top. Mhm. You think about it just I've seen it so many times. It's just nobody will work for you that has better values than you. They will go find somebody else who has better values. And within operations of a business, if you see that dichotomy of like culture and talent, would you be able to say one is more important than the other? It's a good question. I thought of that question. I think that without culture talent fails. Interesting. It just becomes a very cold environment. So you think culture is probably more important than talent? Yeah. I'm just wondering it's like if if you're building a business or if I'm trying to create a team, how can I radiate that that positive culture that you're saying or like constantly be instilling the values of the company into the employees of the company? Is it like actual like board meetings? Like more specifically, what exactly is it? Yeah, like tactically. If you're looking at it like it it really is down to the tactics which is like first you start with, you know, quarterly meetings. Like this sounds so lame but like that's really how you do it. It's like you have an annual meeting, you've got quarterly meetings. In each of those you're reiterating the mission, the vision, the values over and over again. And you're showing how all of the goals of the business tie into those values, tie into that mission. And so those values and that mission are actually decision-making filters to decide are these the priorities that we need to follow as a company? Do they align with the values and do they relate to the mission? If the mission is we want to help a thousand women lose weight and someone says, "Well, I want to start a men's weight loss program." It's like, "But it's help women lose weight, not men." So that means that decision's out. And so a lot of people just think they're like these foo-foo things. I'm like, "No, these are the principles that we use to make decisions for the company." And so they should always be prominent because that's what So I'll give you an example, right? With acquisition.com, it's sincere candor, unimpeachable character, and then competitive greatness. And so every time we're picking a CEO portfolio company, we run them through that filter. We have a scorecard and it literally has this as the filter. It's like, "Do they fit those values? Would they be somebody that we're proud to associate with? Do they have sincere candor? Are they being transparent with us? And then do they want more than money? Are they actually competitively great?" And the same goes for hiring is that I have a little scorecard. It's like, "Do they fit the values?" And that's always the first question. It's like it doesn't matter how skilled they are. If they don't fit the values, they just can't work here. And so I think it's it's that and then when I talk about those quarterly meetings, those get broken down into, you know, on a monthly basis I think that most companies should be running what I call as like a vision meeting, which is again reiterating the vision. It's just repetition of the vision to the entire company and then talking about the vision, breaking it down to the actual mission, and then the values, and then giving examples of decisions that were made that month that relate to that. It's like, "Hey guys, we decided not to do this because of this value." And then calling people out. It's like, "Sally actually did this this month which relates to our value number two." You know, "Harry didn't do this because he realized it didn't relate to our value or it didn't tie into our mission." Does that make sense? That makes sense. It's like you're just always using those as like the guiding light and tying every decision back to them of why we do or do not do something in a company. That's really interesting. You have like your overarching goal or mission and every action that is taken within the business should always be serving that main goal. Absolutely. I think we could do that a little bit better. Probably do that better. You said like quarterly meetings. Within us it's like we go out, we do dinners on occasion. Like I'm seeing Graham fairly often. I'm seeing Alex like fairly often. We never like allocate or reserve time specifically to just discuss the intricacies of the business and what we're doing and stuff. we always talk about though. It's what we talk about but I feel like it's it's more conversational than it is like an actual, "Yo, we're doing a business." Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. What is the mission? [laughter] Well, that's a that's a great That's a great question. I'm so so glad you asked [laughter] this question, isn't it, Jack? Yeah, that it's a great question, Alex. Uh [laughter] I don't know, to be honest with you. I mean the mission has always just been continue having fun and and growing. I mean I always put just enjoyment over anything. Okay. So just uh I I I mean obviously it would be cool to hit a million subscribers but I think you have to enjoy it and for me it's it's really enjoyment first. And as long as I see growth month over month, as long as we're, you know, on an upward trajectory, we're continued continuing to do well and and just growing, I'm happy with it. I think it's growth for me. I would say like the overall mission of the Ice Coffee Hour. Getting on as many platforms as possible, getting as many views, having on the best quality guests that we can, providing the most like amount of entertainment and educational value for the viewers. Just growth. Why is growth important? Because I think that happiness is derived from growth. Yeah, and productivity. I think I like I like watching the progress. To me it's a bit like a challenge to see month over month or even like, you know, six months over six months, are we doing better? If not, why? And trying to figure that out. It's like a piece of a puzzle that you could you could figure out and grow and but I think at the end of the day for me it's just like, do you have fun doing it? Is it something that I look forward to? And if it's a yes, then I'll continue doing it. I think that's a value. Like the fun piece is totally a value. Like we have a company and their value is pig in the mud fun, right? But they have like a huge vision. It's just like, "Hey, if we're not having fun, like we want to make sure we have fun while we get there." Values are basically constraints of how you get to the vision. Mhm. So it's like we can get to a billion dollar company or make this, you know, somehow turn into a billion dollar company as long as we're having fun cuz that's a constraint we're putting on ourselves. Like, "Hey, we're going to get there but we have fun along the way. If we're not having fun, that's not aligned with the mission." Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. Good question. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, actually. be deep in thought, Jack. if you actually like wrote it down and you're like, "This is our mission." And like because here's the thing is that at some point you're going to hit a million subscribers, you're going to hit these numbers you're talking about and then what? Then you just bump it up. Yeah, but that's a That's that's a goal or a KPI. A mission is something above that. It's like, "Why even set the goal or KPI?" Sure. What's the greater vision beyond it? You know what I mean? Like it's usually very amorphous and that's totally fine but it's just like you can attract better people, better talent and then like align with that. I feel like you guys already have everything that's there. It's not written down or structured, you know. Yeah. Great suggestion. Yeah. that. Yeah, honing it in. Yeah. It gives people so much clarity because so many opportunities come in to every business owner they come their way. And people always like, "How do you say no to opportunities?" I'm like, "I just run it through the decision filter. It's like, does it align with the mission or the values? If it does, then maybe it makes sense for us to pursue. If it doesn't, then we say no to it. Even if it's a great opportunity, it's not our opportunity. Yeah. I will say one thing that's kind of interesting is if we record a podcast and I think that podcast did like or I think that it was extremely entertaining or extremely educational and it doesn't perform that well, it still makes me feel better than an episode where I feel like we didn't do that much, but it still gets a lot of views. Mhm. Mhm. I will say that. So, maybe it is just providing as much value and uh as possible. I get that cuz I make videos that like nobody watches, but I'm like, this [ __ ] is so good. very valuable. Yeah, you were telling us though that you don't even watch YouTube. You don't watch TikTok. You stay off of all of that. I forgot what we mentioned. Oh, it was a mukbang. We were talking about doing a mukbang. [laughter] I don't know what that is. I don't even know what that is. I don't watch YouTube. I'm like, mukbang, you know? Is there a reason why you stay away from like TikTok or YouTube? It's not uh like a tool that's helping me get to my goals. Yeah. You run it through the decision filter. It's not I honestly, you know, I I don't have a If I need to learn something, I will pick like what platform I I could probably find something on. I will go learn it, but it's not like I don't like have fun on social media. Like for me, social media is like I only think about putting out content that adds value to other people and that's the only like purpose I see social media for. I don't see it for like my own entertainment, if that makes sense. Mhm. That's interesting because I always I always find it really interesting when people that are really successful at social media don't consume social media because I feel like you need to consume social media in order to see what is good and what That's what I think. Yeah. I would grow way faster if I did. Yeah, I I study like all the time. I'm like always trying to network and talk to other like podcast producers and stuff like that. Even studying podcasts and how how they break down their conversation. Like I'm always looking at stuff like that. And I would imagine it's pretty hard to try to scale on social media if you aren't like allowing yourself or consuming any of it. Yeah. But that's not my goal. I mean like I'm I'm putting stuff out there because I think that it's I want to represent the other side of our business. Like me and Alex talked about when we started acquisition.com, which is it's basically like the two of us split the role of CEO. And so, people only see what he does and they assume, "Oh, that's all I need to be successful." And then we talked about it like when we started acquisition.com, I was like, "I want to put a presence out there." But it's not my number one priority right now cuz I'm growing and scaling our business. And so, like my team is my priority right now. And like growing the team and growing the portfolio companies and I would sacrifice social media any day to make sure that I put them as a priority. So, it's just like what's my priority? It would be his priority, right? Cuz like Alex is more top of funnel than I am. So, like it should for sure be his. He's on the platforms way more than me. He understands marketing to a different extent than I do. Um I listen to what he says. I listen to our team. I listen to like Caleb and Quinn and everyone that we have and I look to them. I'm like, "What do you guys think? Like what what content do you think I should be making?" That's what I ask them cuz I'm like, I I don't know. What's valuable? Mhm. So, what is your goal over the next 10 years? Like your mission. Yeah. I want to be the CEO of acquisition.com when it hits a billion. And how are you going to do that? How are you going to get to a billion? Um it's fairly I mean, there's a lot of different ways that we could do it. So, I mean, we could have uh I think it's 100 companies doing, you know, 30 million a year. We could have, you know, 50 companies that are each doing uh 40 or 50 million a year. I mean, like there's a lot of different ways math-wise it works out. I think right now what we're doing is we're taking minority interest in smaller companies. And so, it's like more of a volume game. But what I would like to eventually do is take majority stake in bigger companies. Because here's the thing I've realized is that scaling a smaller company and scaling a bigger company, it's the same work. And like honestly, I can do both. And so, I feel like But what I have to do is I have to build the team that can do both. Right now, I think our infrastructure supports uh scaling the companies that are, you know, below 100 million, but I think we can get the level of talent to scale companies beyond 100 million and like take them to, you know, I would love to get a company to a billion. That would be so sick. Yeah. What sort of companies do you go after? Um we've actually just broadened it. So, it was more service-based, educational, etc. And at the last quarterly, I was like, "I feel like this is very limiting because we can take technology, we can take, you know, physical goods." It's just it's more about the business itself. A lot of technology businesses and physical goods businesses have really crappy margins and really bad economies of scale. And so, often times they end up going under because they just One, they take on like VC money, if you're tech. And then if you're a products business, you have like loans and lines of credit constantly going in and out. And so, it's like there's not much left over at the end of the day. And so, to reinvest in like building, you know, a talent pool and stuff without taking on more debt, which is not something I'm comfortable with asking people to do, is really hard. And our method of growing a company is basically we want to take it to its organic max before we take it to its basically like leveraged maximum. So, every company has like an organic max where it's like if you've seen a S curve in a company, right? It's like the product is like doing great, it's going up. And then all of a sudden like it starts to go down, decline. People start eating away at your market share. Competitors come in. You start to see that your clients are leaving for other people. And then the goal is to then basically build a new S curve and overlap the two. And if you can overlap the two, then you can go from say Usually the first S curve for a lot of businesses that I'd be talking to, it'd be like 50 million. And then they get to 50 million around 45, they start to see a decline. And they can hit 50 with like, you know, a ton of grit. And then at that point, it's like you need something new to scale to 100 million and beyond. And so, um the goal is really to just take them to the organic max. What it What it is is that a lot of companies they don't go to their organic max. They get to like two, three million and then they're like, "We're going to get all this VC money and we're just going to throw money at everything." The thing is, if you've seen the inside of some of those companies, it takes someone very disciplined to not solve problems with just money. And if you solve problems with just money, the company's basically built on stilts. And how do you help all these businesses scale? Where do you find all the time to do that? Time? Yeah. Well, we have a team. Okay. So, yeah, we have a team. It's not like it's just me and Alex that's It's not at all. is your team? Uh 12. Mhm. It's mostly comprised of consultants. So, people who specialize in like strategy and certain areas of business they can help scale those areas. Does that make sense? Mhm. It's like you look at like McKinsey or Bain or like some of those firms. That's what we're going for, but like a new kind of consulting PE. Sure. And walk us through an average day now. Like what your schedule looks like, how many hours you work. Yeah. Um usually I wake up at like 5:00, I want to say. Um and then I really like to just get to work for like I don't know, 3 hours maybe. And then at like 8:00 or 9:00, I go to the gym. Uh and usually I'm like walking, doing emails, and then I go lift. Um then I come back and I shower and then I take calls from usually like uh I don't like that do them any earlier than 10:00 if I don't have to because I'd like to get my work done in the morning. Um but like 10:00 to uh maybe like 5:30. And then I go on a walk. And then usually we have some sort of like dinner or event or something in the afternoon. Um and then we do that and then we come home and Alex and I like debrief with each other and then that's it. I have a question. Um what So, we had Alex on. He said he would consider himself a nihilist. Would you consider yourself a nihilist? I don't like identify with that term. I think that I have beliefs that would be aligned with that. But I don't like think about myself or identify. I don't label myself with any labels, so that's probably actually why. But do we share the same beliefs? Mostly. But I think he's Alex is more philosophical than I am. Like I actually try to get out of my head cuz I can overthink and go into that really deep and I don't like to as much. I just Like I don't think most things matter and you can just assign whatever meaning you want to. Like you get to choose whatever meaning that you have and assign it to whatever occurs. I do believe that. Um I don't think anything has like inherent meaning. Um but I don't think about that all the time because if you stay stuck in there, it's just like a very Like I don't want to be a You know, I tell Alex, I'm like, "I don't want to be a philosopher." You know, like that's not that's not my vibe. Yeah, I want to be a business person. So, um Makes sense. Yeah, yeah. But I I do think that serves me. You know, I overheard earlier and you walked in you saw Bailey, the puppy. You got a puppy, too. Could you tell us the story? You said you just brought brought a puppy home. Yeah. So, Alex wasn't a big fan or something? No, he loves dogs and that's why he doesn't want one. Um So, there was like a period of time right before we got married that Alex and I, he basically was like, "I need to tie up some loose ends or something." He like wanted to talk to like an ex cuz he had been engaged before we met. And I was like, "Talk to an ex." I was like, "Okay." And so, he's like, "I you know, I'm going to meet her uh at some place whatever and and I'm going to like you know, close things off cuz they just left it like maybe we'll get back together cuz they'd been on and off for so long. And I was like, "Pretty sure we're just breaking up." And so, when he was gone, I was like, "Okay." And I just like went to get my own apartment and I got a dog. And he came back. And he was like, "I closed things off. I want to get married." And I was like, "Wait, what?" [laughter] And I was so confused. I was like, "Wait, dude, come on." How long was he gone for? Two days. Two days? Where did he go? Oh, he flew and then came back the next day. Oh my god. But he was previously engaged to this woman. Mhm. What was there to close off? Did you guys have a discussion like why? Like why why couldn't you saying the whole time, right? I was Okay, what you're going to close something off, you know, like I'm just like sitting like a weird thing to just not to say like you know, she had a text or something like that or like a Well, you know, I think um I don't know much about the situation cuz I don't I don't like tend to ask about people's past. I think that, you know, it was his situation. He wanted to handle his way. Um and I think he handled it very maturely, which was that person felt like there wasn't closure. And so, he was like, "I feel that she deserves to hear from me in person. I'm going to tell her why she needs to move on." And she was with somebody else who I think wanted to get married with her and she was like, "Do I do that or we ever Do we ever have a future?" And I don't know. And he could probably tell it better than me. My memory's not like 100% on it cuz like I was just more like "Well, obviously we're broken up." these two days, you got your own apartment and a dog. I didn't get the own apartment. I like went and viewed them and then I got a dog cuz I was like, "I want a dog." I was like, I wanted a dog. thought I was like, I'm going to be sitting at home with my dog. a dog." Huh? You thought it was over? Yeah. But he had told you he was just going to come back, right? Okay, but how many people, when they're like, "Oh, I have to go close things off with my ex." You're like, "Okay." You know what I mean? Like I'm I just was thinking to myself, insane. Like that you accepted the fact that it was over. You got a dog, and then he comes back and you're like, "All right, let's go." You know? Well, I kind of realized that I just like let my own mind get the best of me. Oh. how many That makes sense. Like think about like every relationship I'd had prior to that, if somebody had said something like that, like I I did have people who were unfaithful and like did things like that. So I was like, "Oh, I've seen this before. Okay." But it this wasn't the case. You just noticed that as soon as he came back and you're like, "Well, I already got the dog, so." Yeah, and I think that was like a huge moment where I gained a lot of trust with him, because I was like, he's I mean, Alex is like he's never cheated on anyone. He's always been very faithful. He's always been very forthright about that, that he would never do that to somebody. And I always was like, "Wow, he's very aggressive about this fact about himself when we met." And that kind of showcased it to me, because I was like, he came back and he was just like he seemed like much more clear-headed and he's like, "I feel like really good about this now and like I can completely focus on this." Cuz when we met, he was like, "I wasn't really looking for a relationship. I was just looking for a distraction Yeah. from this relationship that I was like exiting. Yeah. Does that make sense? How has being married changed your relationship, or has it? No. Okay. Has not. Why? I'm curious. I'm engaged I'm Yeah, well, I'm engaged now, so I'm curious if you've seen a shift or something. I think if anything, it just allows you a level of intimacy that's beyond what you had before, because there's this whether it's false or not, a bigger sense of certainty and security with the person. Because you're like, "We're married." Like it's almost like a like it used to just be like, "Okay, together." And then you could break up. Now it's like together, and it's like if you even had the thought of breaking up, you're like, "Wait, but we're married." It's almost like a stopgap, I I want to say. And so you're like you would have to take things more seriously and like consider things and try much harder in order to end the relationship. And I do think that most people actually don't try very hard to save relationships. So I do think it's valid. Okay. Uh what other marriage advice do you have? Or anything that's Is everything okay, Greg? Yeah, everything's all right. I'm just curious. I'm just curious. Everything's going great, Jack. Yeah. Except let me let me tell you about this thing. Let me complain for a second. Um the way I see marriage is like this. If you study I think that marriage is a team sport. And so if you look at the best teams of all time, how do they structure? Like what are they built off of? I think it's the same things, which is it's like you have a shared mission, shared values, and then shared lifestyle or interests, basically. So it's like shared mission is that you're both going towards the same thing in life. There's something that you've decided that you can have your own ways of getting there, and you have your own paths, but you both want to end up at the same place. Right? And so you have this goal, this vision that you can both kind of like ideate over together. Below [snorts] that is like we have shared values, which is we agree that we abide by these values to get to that vision. Right? So like while we're on our paths there, these are the ways that we're going to behave in order to achieve the mission, which is like say we want to get rich. We're like, "Oh, we want to have a billion dollars." But it's like, "Hey, we're also going to be ethical." Right? So it's like we're not going to sell cocaine to get a billion dollars, cuz like we consider that not to be ethical, right? And then the last piece to it is shared lifestyle or interests, which is a lot of people only have their love for each other in common. They have nothing else in common besides the fact of their attraction or their love for one another. And so they don't have activities or things that they can share and kind of collaborate over outside of that. It's like the only thing in the relationship is actually the relationship itself. Does that make sense? Yeah. But it's like, what if you looked at them as like, "Would I be best friends with this person?" Right? Like do I have interests and hobbies and things that I can do with them outside of just like, "Oh my god, I love you so much and like you're amazing and let's have sex." Like I wonder how many viewers your mate question their relationship right now. Because I've never looked at it that way, like the mission above all else and then values and then interests. But that makes perfect sense. It makes very good sense, actually. I always thought that it was values at the top and then, you know, like shared interests. Yeah, well, I always always think it's commonalities Mhm. at the top. Yeah. But I think mission that that makes sense. Well, it depends on what kind of life you want to live, too. Like this is just the way it's worked for I suppose. Yeah. Yeah, I've seen it work for a lot of people have long-lasting relationships. So I would like to stay I mean, like me and Alex have the same thing, which is like we could just be married to each other for forever. We'd be super excited about that. Which a lot of people don't have that. They're like, "Hey, I want to be married to multiple people and like this might only last 10 years." Like I'm super cool with all that. I would just prefer to be married for a very long time. Just like seems much easier. Both of us the vision that we each have for ourselves is of someone who can be married for 50 or 60 years. Mhm. And why do you want to focus on building this business so much? When is enough enough, or is it just always about the growth? It's Yeah, it's not about accumulation of anything. It's not about money, it's not about power or status, like none of that. It's what else am I going to do with my time? Like I think that and I really get it now with acquisition.com, which is you have to build a vision compelling enough that others can fit their vision inside of it and that you can fit your next vision inside of it. I only see, you know, Leila as she currently stands able to get this business to, you know, a hundred something million. I have to become a different person in order to hit a billion or to hit 10 billion or 30 or 50 billion. And that is super compelling to me, because I'm like that's a challenge that I would like to figure out. That's something I would like to And I would like to meet that person. I would like to meet Leila when she has a 10 billion dollar company and be like, "How did you do it? What did you have to go through? Like what kind of person do you have to become and what beliefs did you have to break in order to get there?" And so for me it's about setting a goal so big that I am forced to change and evolve in a positive way as a human in order to get there. And that other people within it also have to do the same. Because that's what keeps people excited. But that's just because you find personal enjoyment in that. Yeah, I like I like proving to myself that I'm tough. What if you picked up some random hobby, let's say golfing, and you enjoyed golfing way more? Let's just say in this like this is a theory, right? Like you Spikeball. Spikeball sure any any sort of random thing. You loved it so much. For the sake of the argument, let's say golfing. Um but um Or ping pong in your case. You loved [clears throat] ping pong way more than running your business, everything. Uh obviously you loved Alex, right? Um would you stop doing your business in order to to do ping pong if you loved it more than your business? Because love is fleeting. It's a feeling. But like logically what makes sense in order to for me to evolve as a person is to have challenge. And that is within the business. Ping pong would not have that. But then wouldn't that mean you love the challenge more than you love ping pong? Maybe. Yeah. There's always someone that's better in ping pong. What? There's always someone that's better in ping pong. Cuz then I think it for you it's the challenge. But if you were challenged and loved ping pong, assuming all else, then I think it would make sense you would follow ping pong. If I was challenged by ping pong? Yes. And you you were loved and challenged by ping pong. you. But but you made no money this year. Yeah. So because if if you're saying it's not about the money, there's got to be a component about it that is that is somewhat money related. where I'm not following. I don't choose things because I love them. Yeah. Does that make sense? Why do you choose things? Because they make sense. Like logically. Like I'm like this business makes the most sense and is like the most likely vehicle to create the kind of person I want to create that I have to become to to run this business. Ping pong logically doesn't make sense. Like I don't think I will become that person through the hardships that ping pong is going [laughter] to bring. Even if I love ping pong, I also love cake. I don't eat cake all day. Does that make sense? It does. It makes sense. Okay. All right. That's Do you have a strict diet that you stick to? No, I used to. I counted my macros for like 11 years. Really? Yeah, cuz I was really fat and so I was afraid of getting fat again. How did you how did you get fat to begin with? Was it was it just something that you know, just excessive eating, not a lot of exercise? I mean, I'm curious. Yeah, okay. Well, it's like people are like, "How did you get fat?" I'm like, "I ate more than my body needed." [laughter] I ate more calories. What kind of question is that? Some of it I feel like could be hereditary. Some of it could be hereditary. I I don't know. I'm not I'm not on it today with my questions. I'm really not. I feel so off. hereditary. It's like I inherited their bad habits of food and not eating Well, okay, then then that. Yeah, but people love that. Excuse No, I mean, my family, you know, my my mother was Southern and my dad was Iranian. Like probably didn't have the best food in the house, but like I mean, I let myself go. I think you know, at probably when I was like my upper teens it was bad. I just drank a ton and then would eat out and I was just being irresponsible. And I think just for that period of time, it's almost like you know, you get out of high school and it's like, "Oh my god, I'm free." Like that's how I felt at least. Like not being under the roof of my parents, like finally being free. I was like, "Oh my god." And then I just disregarded everything that I had been doing and kind of who I was. I That's when I gained more weight. Um and I went from like, you know, having some weight to like I was fat. Um And when you say drinking, you talking about alcohol? Oh, yeah. Okay. Lots of alcohol. And that has a ton of calories. Only people think about that. How did you move out at 18? You don't see a lot of people just moving out at 18. Well, unless you're going off to college. Okay, got it. So I went and lived in the dorms. Got it. Yeah. One thing that's kind of interesting to me is when I see people that are like exceptional in what they do, I always wonder what is the main driving factor of being this. Obviously it has to be something maybe from childhood or growing up, but you were saying when you were in college, you were okay with college, like you didn't love it or anything, but all the while you were reading Tony Tony Robbins books, right? And trying to like develop your yourself, right? What do you think it is in your life that caused you to have this this drive to be exceptional? Is it something that like your a value your parents instilled in you? Is it just a unique thing that maybe is just like 10% of people have it? Or what what causes you to have this? I think where it started and where it's comes from now are different. So I think where it started from was um you know, my parents ended up being divorced when I was like I don't remember, eight or nine. Mhm. Um and then I ended up living with my mother, who then became an alcoholic and like went super down that rabbit hole. Um, and I essentially didn't want to tell anybody because I was I didn't You know, it's like it's so funny to say cuz like I love my dad so much now and he's we're really close, but um, I didn't know him super well back then. Like I felt like he was always at work and such. So, they got divorced, I didn't want to live with him. Um, and so I was instead with my mother and I didn't want to tell anyone that she had all these issues and she would like leave me at home for long periods of time and wouldn't come back and then she would be in hospital and then she would like I remember one time she was just like passed out on the driveway and like the police came cuz the neighbors called like just crazy [ __ ] like that, right? And so I essentially had to raise myself until I was 15 when she tried to kill herself and I called the cops. And they came and then they said you can't live with her anymore. And so they took me to my dad and then he was like, "What's been going on?" And I was like, "All of this." And so I told him. And so I think a lot of it was looking at her as a person and seeing like I was like, "How do you do that to your kid, one?" I'm like, "How do you like become the mother that like becomes this like crazy alcoholic and like you know, exposes your kid to all this stuff and leaves them for weeks at a time when they're young and you know, aren't taking care of themselves?" And I just wanted to be the opposite of that. Like I was like, "I will I actually remember the moment when I was sitting in the guest room of my my mother's house and she like hadn't come home for like 3 days and I was calling her again and I was like, "Fuck, is she dead?" Like and then I always just assume I'm like at one time I'm going to call and she's going to be dead or something. And I hung up the phone cuz she didn't answer for like the 18th time and I was like, "Screw this." And I was like, "I'm not going to be some victim sitting here calling her waiting for her to come home." I was like, "I'm going to use this. I'm going to make my life [ __ ] awesome." Like she has cuz she would always tell me she's like, "I had a really bad childhood." And all this [ __ ] And I was like, "Dude, so you and 50 million other people on this earth." And so I think looking at it I was just like, "I will not be a victim of the circumstance. I will instead allow this to be a reason why I succeed. And this will propel me to my success." And I remember thinking that and I was like, "And I'm going to help other people do the same and see that circumstances should not dictate how your life turns out." And it was in that moment that I was like, "I want to invest in myself." And I started looking at Tony Robbins and then Ramone and all that stuff. You know, when I found them years later, but it was often a lot of not wanting to be like her. Um, and seeing and then noticing the pattern in like so many women that they didn't take care of themselves. They couldn't take care of themselves. They always relied on men. Um, I think I almost like to it extent like had a distaste for people like that, which I don't anymore, which I'm glad about. Um, but I really deeply never wanted to rely on someone else and I never wanted to be a victim of circumstance. And I think it was just watching her just do that over and over again and seeing what it turned into her life and I just I felt very sad for her. And that was what put me in that direction. I no longer feel that that's what's propelling me because I feel like it's like I am obviously not that. What propels me now is more of a desire to honestly just meet my future self and see what's possible. Like I think that we're all made of the same stuff, right? And so it's like I can literally do I I truly believe I could do anything that anyone else on this earth has done. And I think that's really freaking cool. And so now it's more of a desire to see what that looks like and to meet the person that I have to become in 20 or 30 years when I put myself in situations where there's more pressure to become that kind of person. So, I like putting myself in a business and setting very high goals because there's external circumstance that is forcing internal change. In order to make this successful, make the external successful, the business, I have to become a different person. And I like that because I think that's constant challenge. And so I think it it shifted over time. I think when I was probably around like 19 or 20 I went from not wanting to be like her or be like anyone like that to wanting something more, probably because I think I I went through a lot of like dealing with it around that age because I was very angry for a long time. Like I was just angry about the situation and I changed my mindset around it and I was like, "I am so and I really like I am deeply thankful for this situation. I am deeply thankful that that happened because I think I would have been so soft had that not happened. Like my my parents were very protective of me as a kid and until they got divorced and I was in that situation with her, I think that they probably would have continued to be very protective of me. And I don't know if I would have learned how to lead myself, learned how to manage myself, learned how to manage my emotions had I not been exposed to it young. And I think getting exposed to it young um, was a huge advantage for me because a lot of people are like, "How old are you and like how have you achieved I'm like I think I started being able to parent myself and manage myself at a very young age and so it's it's helped me now. That's interesting. So, basically it was a a slow decline and then you apparently had to hit this rock bottom moment in order to flip that light switch and change I guess your I don't know, the way that you felt about success in your own life. Yeah, I think I just realized that, you know, I forgave [clears throat] her for everything that went through. I mean, I just look at it from a very unbiased point of view. I'm like she's just a human and like so many people on this earth have so many issues and they don't know how to deal with them and she was not equipped with those tools and she didn't have access to some of the things I have access to now. So, she never dealt with that stuff and she's just I don't know, chosen to never do anything about it now. So, I don't know. I think it was just like dealing with that and being like, "I'm okay with that." And I'm actually like really glad because I realized probably around that age I was like, "All of what I got to see showed me so much about what I did want because I knew what I didn't want." I was like, "I definitely don't want that." And so I was like, "What I do want looks more like this." And then over time it became a lot less of I don't want that and more just this is what I do want. I've seen that a lot where people they grow up in an environment like they they see their parents' life and they're like, "I do not want that for myself." And that's a really powerful motivator is to not be like someone. Also in the same way of like being like someone or being better than someone. Not being like someone is also extremely powerful. Yeah, absolutely. Do you want kids? Not right now. Okay. No. Um, I think that a lot of women want children when they don't feel fulfilled by other areas of their life and typically that's like in your young 20s you're not fulfilled yet. You haven't figured out what you wanted. Um, and typically, you know, men are more apt to like have pursued their career earlier. I started pursuing my career fairly early and so the opportunity for me to really feel a gap where a children would fill it, it just like never occurred. And so I think um, I would love if I had a kid with Alex. Like I think the one thing is like, "Oh, I would love to have a kid with him specifically, right?" Like us have like a little shared thing. It's like, "Oh, it's half of you and half of me." [laughter] Right? Like very cute. I don't think I would enjoy the day-to-day as much as I enjoy the day-to-day of what I do now without kids. Mhm. So, one thing Alex mentioned about having a kid is that he says it could be a selfish thing to have a kid. Cuz a lot of people are selfish in so far as like they want to see their kid. They want to see that kid is me. That kid is a representation of me and I like me, so I love my kid. What do you think about that? I agree with him. Really? Mhm. What do you think? Explain it it's selfish just to it's it's usually motivated by being selfish. Because like people he says people can often times be inherently selfish. Like some people, a lot of people. Uh, and that's like the motivation of having a kid. You could argue both ways. I feel like you could say that's one of the most unselfish things because then you put your child before you or you would you would hope that would be the case. But then you dedicate, you know, so much of your like you could be spending your time doing anything else, but now you're taking care of another person, like raising another person. That person becomes a priority. I think it could go either way, but it could be done initially at a selfish selfish reasons. Of maybe maybe you're unfulfilled or maybe it's something to replace like, you know, I don't feel purpose, but now with a child I feel purpose. Yes. So, it could go both ways, I feel. I think most people have a kid to give themselves purpose and then they put a lot of pressure onto the child to fulfill the purpose that they've desired. And so that kid has all this pressure on them from a parent that's not warranted and the kid never wanted that pressure. Right, but it's what the parent has wanted from the kid. And so I think a lot of times they try to project It's almost like using it as like a projection of oneself. And so I think in those situations it doesn't make sense to have a kid. And I mean, like I mean, I don't know about you, but like I mean, I would like my I'm not yet enough of a realized person to want to have a kid and be like, "I'm okay if Johnny hates me and is unsuccessful." Because here's the thing, he could hate you and be an unsuccessful person. You could have a kid and they could be a piece of [ __ ] and they could hate you. And like never do anything with their lives. And you have to be okay with that. I was in a room with Tony Robbins just like a month ago and he literally talked about this. He's like, "Dude, you have got to be okay with the fact that if you have a kid" he was talking to some woman. He's like, "That that kid might not be successful at all and might not like you." Do you still want to have a kid? That's the worst case scenario. Can you live with the worst case scenario? That is worst case scenario. That's exactly what Alex said. Alex Well, this is what Alex said. He says, uh, he would have a hard time saying that he wants them to be their own person. He would want them to be who he wants them to be. Yeah, he would. Yeah. I mean, I would say the same thing. I mean, I Yeah, I I'd have a very It would obviously hurt as a parent. It's like you try so hard to like raise your kid to be moral or ethical, you know what I mean? And and then all of a sudden they're like I'm not going to say anything, but doing bad stuff, you know? Yeah, I'm so worried with the kids tend to rebel and if like I'm so focused on like, you know, hey, improving yourself and making money and growing and like, you know, filling your passion. They're like, "Ah, that's stupid cuz dad does it. I'm just going to go smoke weed." And like that's all they do. I'd be so upset. I just feel like the best parenting strategy is leading by example. Like obviously there are sometimes where you're going to have to step in, you know, tell your kid, "No, don't do that. Don't do that." But for the most part like I feel like people are moral and they know when they did something wrong for the most part. And if you're always just a good person, your kid will see that. They'll respect it. You know what I mean? Will they? Yeah, because kids will always be betrayed by their friends. There will always be an ebb and flow to relationships with their peers, right? But if you can be this fatherly figure that the kid can always look up to and be like, "There is no ebb and flow to my dad. He's always been good to me. He always loves me. He always supports me in all of my actions." And you just live your own life and lead by example, there's no ebb and flow to that. They're constant. Yeah, I don't I don't agree. I think it just depends on the kid. I mean, I've seen the same, but then humans have this natural proclivity to rebel. And so, it's like if you set the standard, even if you're not trying to coerce someone into an action, they know when you're trying to influence them. And humans naturally rebel when they think that they're under influence, which is why so many kids rebel against their parents. There's lots of studies on this. So, I think it depends on the intelligence level of the kid. Like, I could look at my parents when I was a kid and be like, "My dad does this. That's good." Right? So, I think some kids, 100% that is And let's be real, it's better to lead by example than not. Yes. It's just that when they're of a certain age, when they're very like they're very drawn to that rebellion stage, that they just do the opposite. But, the thing is, it usually is like an echo chamber. For example, your kid rebels and then you get mad at your kid and then the kid's like, "Oh, well, this is the worst thing that's going to happen is they're going to get mad at me." Like, that's pretty bad, but I can deal with that. Instead of like just I feel like letting it kind of happen as long as it's not like outside of what you deem okay. And then, [clears throat] obviously, being upset by it, but like not like shunning your kid and like pointing fingers and stuff like that. Yeah, well, that's I think most people don't understand how to use punishment and that punishment actually is not useful most of the time. Why do you think punishment's not useful? [sighs] Because what is punishment actually doing? Like, are they learning anything from If the goal is that they don't do this thing again, then now what you're teaching them is that you get this this bad thing happens when you've done a bad thing, but you're not teaching them how to be better. You're not helping them realize for themselves why they could do something differently the next time. And it's not autonomous either. It's you are an external person, you know, inflicting a punishment upon them versus like them deciding for themselves that it's not a good idea. So, I feel like it just takes away a lot of autonomy. It's kind of like if an employee makes a mistake in my business, am I going to yell at them and be like, "You did not do a good job and because of this you're getting taken away?" And I'm like, "No, I am also a human who makes mistakes." I do not do that. I put Jack in timeout so many times. Yeah. Like, Jack, no. I hated it. But, to me though feels like as a child within like a certain range of activities that they could be doing, it's like putting on a timeout or something negative moves them away from that pain. And so, they're like, "Well, if I don't scream at the restaurant, I I don't have to go and sit by myself for 30 minutes with nothing to do." And so, then you could learn social cues by like, "I don't want to be in timeouts, so I'm not going to do that." Long enough for you to like recognize that that's not something to do. I agree to an extent. It's just that most children then find a way to just avoid the punishment. So, they'll just figure out a way to do it without you finding out as the parent. So, they're not taught to not do the thing. They are taught to know, "Now if I do the thing, I get punished and now I have to figure out how to avoid that punishment." Maybe. Yeah, I I I agree with Leila. Yeah. Yeah, I think I have a very very similar viewpoint and um when I grew up and I went to school, I went to to two completely opposite schools. One was in a, you know, very impoverished area and one was one was very wealthy. And I learned that at this wealthy school, um a lot of the kids have great examples for parents, right? They have parents that had successful careers, uh half the time, you know, it's like a a whole family or whatever you want to call it. And I noticed that those kids um would rebel probably more than and than than the ones over here. And um I think that just because if you lead by example doesn't mean that your kid will want that. I think they're going to want what they want. Well, there's a difference between leading by example and en- enabling. Cuz I know that's a pretty big stereotype is like if you're a wealthy parent, you kind of enable your kid to do these bad things cuz you can always get them out of trouble. And I think that is also kind of like It's like the opposite of punishment, right? Enabling, kind of? Like, they're both the the extremes on the spectrum. Alex made a reference about the two types of relationships that in his mind he thinks work. So, one is the we are in this together relationship where two people are, you know, split partners split responsibilities. He says that's what you and him are. Um and then the other one is the cheerleader and the quarterback with the cheerleader cheering on the quarterback. And um that's not as successful of a dynamic as we are in this together. What do you think about that? Are those the two real only dynamics that you think will work? And do you agree that we are in this together is the most powerful dynamic for a successful relationship? Yeah, I mean I I actually there's a study that's been done that basically talks about the three dynamics of relationship and who's the happiest versus who's the most successful versus who's not, right? So, the most successful and the ones that make the most money are the ones that have our dynamic where it's two people that share the power, that are in the same vehicle together, that are driving towards something, right? So, they have a shared career. Uh they're in it together and they split it and it's equal power, right? They make the most money, but they're not the most content. They're happy, but they're not the most content. The most content are actually people who they each have their own individual career, which is similar, but separate, right? Um but, they're both like leading the way in those careers. And then, the last one are the people who are the most content, but make make the least amount of money and impact, which is uh one person is the dominating force and the other person is like the assistant or supporter. Um more content, for sure, uh less money and impact. So, there's a study done. Esther Perel broke it down, basically talked about those three. So, I think what he was pointing out is basically just like there's a couple things, which is like that's what we see most commonly. And this is like speaking in generalization. So, like I see those tend to work best. Also, because it's clarity of roles, right? Like, it's really clear that either you're in this together or it's like one person's doing it and the other one's following. I think a lot of people, if you go outside of that, then you have to define it for yourself. So, I'd say other forms of relationships could absolutely be successful. It's just that most people don't clarify it. Like, most people don't clarify what our relationship is. What are the rules of this relationship game? And if we're not picking one that's off the shelf, what's it going to be? And a lot of people don't take the time to decide like, "Are you a want match for me? Like, is what I want and what you want, are they the same thing? And are we going to write it down and make it very clear?" Cuz I think that's where most people go wrong and that's why it's In both those scenarios, it's so well defined that it's almost it's hard to argue. That makes sense. Yeah. So, I do think that that is probably I I agree with what he's saying. We talk about it a lot because we're like We also recognize that like our relationship is not like most and it's I think it's honestly just a unique situation in which like we met under weird circumstances. We're both kind of odd people and like have different, you know, things that we're like interested in. Um and we just work. And I don't think that our relationship advice should apply to everybody like at all. In fact, I I think it applies to less people. It's like if you put two people in the same room, think about this, right? Like, if you go on a deserted island with somebody, it's like and you're stuck there for like a month, you most likely will love that person at the end of that month, whether you want to or not, whether you even like them or not. You may love them. Because it's almost like a feeling of comfort. And so, I think that it's it's just reminding ourselves like feelings are always going to be fleeting. But, if we have a good argument and a good foundation for the marriage that's logical, then it's more likely to last in the long run. And so, it's also I guess, you know, it'd be like, "What is your goal?" Some people don't care about being married forever or like for the rest of their lives. And like, a lot of people don't. I know a lot of people are like, "Leila, I don't vibe with that." And so, I'm also speaking in terms of like if you want to be married for a long time. I've done a lot of research on that. I've read a lot about it. And I feel pretty strongly that that I'm going to be right. Hm. Do you have any dating advice for Jack? Are you dating? Um I'm trying to be dating. Yeah. What's that mean? How are you trying? Because I'm not really like Like, I feel like in order to qualify as dating, you probably need to be going on dates. Okay. Then you're trying to go on dates, but you're not. Uh I wouldn't say I'm like [laughter] trying super hard to go on dates, but if the opportunity is presented, you know, then I'd probably go on a date. Yeah. That's going to be hard. You're going to be waiting a long time. Yeah, I think realistically, I just need more urgency with it, you know. How old are you? 23. Oh, you're young. Yeah, I need to be more motivated. I think that's I met Alex. I was 23. Really? Mhm. All right, I got to get on it. Done. [laughter] You got to have a mission. Would you Would you do online dating? I'm on all of them, but I don't really spend much time on them, to be honest. Like, I Like I said, there's an ebb and flow to my motivation with dating. Sometimes I really want a girlfriend, sometimes I don't. And I I figure if there is an ebb and flow like that, probably means it's not the right time. So. I think that's normal, actually. Okay, maybe it is perfect. Maybe it's the perfect time. I mean, there's totally times when you're going to be in a relationship and you're going to be like, "I could be totally fine being single." Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Alex actually talked about that. We're like, "Yeah, if you died, I don't know if I'd get remarried." You probably would, right? No. You wouldn't? Dude, that's like I feel like I'm like the worst like I would have a lot of money and like run this big business and like have had a husband that I like ran it with who then, you know, died. It's like, who's my candidate pool? Like, younger guys, like I feel like a lot of men don't like the fact that I want all these things for myself and I have these ambitions. Or I find someone who's like a complete beta and they're like, "Yeah, sure. I'll like fly on your private jet and take all your money and do all that." Which I wouldn't marry that person because I would definitely not want them to take all my money. So, it's like, "What purpose does marriage serve?" It's like it's like I don't know if it would serve a purpose at that point. You could always have a life partner, someone that you're with, you know, without without the marriage. would get married legally to that person. You know what I mean? Yeah. Cuz at that point, I just feel like And then I don't know. I mean, Alex is always like, "We're [ __ ] together." What? It wasn't built together if you get a new person, right? Yeah, it wasn't built together and I And then at a certain point, you're like Cuz I think the reason that people gets mar- get married changes, right? It's like a lot of people get married to have kids together and start a family. There's always like a purpose behind it, right? Um and I think some people get married, you know, we got married because we wanted to build this life together, right? And so, it's like if I have built the life that I've wanted and say I don't have kids and don't want kids and then I'm 45 and, you know, Alex is no longer there, why would I get married? And it would probably be if I wanted to start some kind of new life or new something with somebody. But, if I'm content my own, then Yeah. I don't know why I'd get married. That makes sense. There is a possibility, you seem very set in your ways like about how you are so excited to meet your future self, right? There is a chance that one day you wake up and all of your your desires from that just completely change into something like I want to live on a ranch in Montana. There's a chance, right? And so what if the right guy comes along, you know, he's your plumber, he's fixing your pipes. You're assuming Alex is dead. Assuming [laughter] Pretty dismal conversation, but there's a chance something like that could happen, right? There's a chance Do you think there's a chance that one day you wake up and don't want to Ooh, it's a weird A lot of assumptions have to happen there, Jack. [laughter] Alex is living his life and he's like, "What the We're like, "If this happens, would that happen?" And then over here Jack is basically I'll I'll say I'll say this. I'll say this to your point, which is I think if I look at like who I was when I was even 2 years old versus who I am now, I think there's always been an inherent like I've always been someone who's pursued challenges in that way. I don't plan on stopping and maybe I do wake up and one day, you know, I mean, that's the thing though, it's like there's plenty of days I feel like doing that that I'd like, "Hey, we could just retire and get a ranch and do it." Like of course there's days where that sounds like more incentivizing. I just never have given in to that feeling. So I would have to change a lot as a human in order to do that. I don't feel like it. I'm not going on some ayahuasca trip anytime soon, which is what I've seen a lot of people, you know, they do some weird thing like that and then they're like, "Boop, other way." What are your Yeah, what are your thoughts on like psychedelics, ayahuasca? Have you Have you tried any of that? I'm just curious. No. No, I've done a lot of drugs like in my past, but like not like the hippie drugs, like hard drugs. Okay. Um so I don't even know how to define a hippie drug, yeah, but I feel like there's this difference. Of hard drugs? Yeah, I mean, Like the, you know, I I haven't done like meth or anything, but Okay, all right. Yeah, let's be clear. Let's [laughter] be clear. During my partying phase like I tried I was like, "Sure, I'll try something." Like I was just super irresponsible. I didn't think about consequences. Um but I've not like since that phase I haven't done drugs just because What? [laughter] Thinking Are you thinking what I'm thinking? What? The the meth. What? The the meth comment. What? We had a guy on the podcast a long time ago. Oh, come on, man. Former addict. Oh. talked about meth. And Jack's question was, "How do you do it?" [laughter] This was early on in the podcast. Jack, you don't ask that. I ask what my brain wants me to ask. That's like if you have an alcoholic and you're like, "What was your favorite drink? Can you describe that?" It was just Jake. It was Jake. It was Jake. Jake. Jake. What I can tell you is I read the room and he said he was comfortable talking about whatever. And I really had no idea, you know, it was an itch I I wanted to scratch it. So I asked the question. I actually love that. It's a great question. [laughter] What do you do? Right? I don't want to say certain ways that I think it can be done, but I What do you do? I could have I mean, I asked it was We met a guy and he was like, "I have two wives." And I was like, "Tell me how that works like, you know?" Yeah, see? What if what you Two of you do you guys have sex in front of the other person in your bed? Like what do you do? He was super happy to tell me and I was like, "Interesting." It's just satisfying that random, you know, little cur- curiosity. I just think you could have Googled that. Like that wasn't I wanted to know how he specifically did it, man. Him. Yeah, [laughter] I wanted to know, you know? [gasps] So did he describe it? I don't think he did. No, cuz you wouldn't let him. I didn't think it was appropriate for the podcast. Describe how this guy You know, that's a that's a good point. That's Yeah, cuz you don't want to like People are like, "Oh, I'm going to go talk to him." You don't want to teach people how to [laughter] No. Do you guys do psychedelics? No. I've I've never done anything. I I'll incriminate myself here. I've I've tried weed like three times in my entire life and that was it. And I hated it every single time. The first time I was 16 and I was hanging out like in the band group and all of them were stoners. And so I would see them doing it. I was like I was just curious. I'm like, "What What's appealing about this?" I never had any desire. So I'm going to try it. And hated it instantaneously. Like I didn't like that feeling of not being in control. I I felt paranoid. I was like I thought the police were going to show up and just like arrest all of us. I hated it. But then they're like, "No, you got to you got to do it again cuz like the first time is never good. Like the second time." Tried it again, said it was hated it just as much. And I think there was a third time years later where I was like, "Maybe I hated it. There's not one point I ever enjoyed it. So No, that was my only ever experience. Okay. Yeah, I'm not really like a proponent. I think most people are like, "Oh, it opens up my brain. It makes me smarter." And I'm like, "It literally turns off part of your brain. I don't really think that makes you smarter." But like I don't think like if you really study what they do, they turn off different parts of the brains and then people are like, "I can make better decisions." I'm like, "Can you though?" I don't I would The argument is that with certain parts of your brain shut off, you can kind of isolate your focus to other parts of your brain and it kind of simplifies things. Yeah. Do I necessarily agree that like it's a good strategy to find clarity? No. But can it be used as a tool to find clarity? Probably. Yeah, I've always been curious about like being able to tap into different senses of like creativity or different thoughts that you would never have otherwise. But then it's like I would never want to like alter myself in such a way where you would rely on that or maybe like that's the only way you could tap into that. And I've been so terrified of doing anything cuz I'm like if I if I like it, it would be hard for me not to justify continuing. So it's probably best I just don't. I mean, I think that's a really sound strategy. That's basically how I operate, which is like I would probably like it and so I do not want to try it. Like I tried things in my past and I liked them and I was like, "I do not want to try it." Like you try like even like stuff like Adderall. I'm like, "Oh my god, I really like Adderall. Not doing that again." You know, like it's just it's just don't want to even risk it. Yeah. I think for me I limit it just to coffee. Like coffee's the perfect balance It is addictive. It's quite It is incredibly addictive. of rely on it now, right? Yeah, I couldn't go a day without a cup of coffee. How much do you drink? Uh usually two cups of coffee. Which it's it's not bad, but It's not. I How How many cups of coffee do you see around the house that are half finished? I see way too many to be two cups a day, man. No, because I don't pick up the glasses. That could be glass from like days ago. That's a different problem, man. If you're like I What? Leaving glass? It's Sometimes I'll just I'll have a coffee like this. We had picked three glasses from the the podcast. I'm like, "I'll just leave it." And then then it gets watered down. Two cups of coffee is how much I drink. So now that you you It's not three. I know 100% it's not three. Now that you rely on coffee, right? How bad is it that you drink it every day? If you could find something else that was as inconvenient to drink as coffee, but it was it had the amount of upside that coffee does. It was just another random thing. Let's just say, terrible example, smoking a cigarette, okay? But there wasn't really like the health detriment of smoking it. Would you step outside and smoke couple cigarettes per day if you got the same amount of benefit of coffee? No, probably not. No. For me for me the coffee's like I really enjoy the taste. I like sipping on something. I like a cold drink and I never drink warm coffee. It's about having a like a cold drink over ice. But what if you enjoyed the taste of menthol? [laughter] What if I enjoyed anything else? I mean, what does that have to do with menthol? think coffee's bad? I don't think coffee's bad. I think that the logic you're using is a touch flawed, you know? Two cups a day, Jack. We got to get Macy in here. She'll tell me. Okay, that's not the the point here, but you know, the coffee consumption. You rely on it every single day. I do rely on it. Right. And if you weren't to have if you if you wouldn't have it, right? Wouldn't you feel poorly? Correct. Maybe. If you Here's the thing, I've gone off coffee multiple times. You feel like [ __ ] for like a few days and then you're fine. Yeah, I know. It's better when you have it. Yeah, yeah. I've The last time I think it was like 2018, it was like 5 years ago that I I stopped drinking coffee for like a month and I found myself I was less happy, I was not motivated, and I made less money. And like immediately when that happened, I was like, "I'm going to drink coffee." Like it's not worth it. not, you know, it's it's no big deal, but the money part. Yeah. But no, I just I lost that sense of enjoyment. It was weird. Like the first 2 weeks sucked and that was like I was just going to bed early and just, you know, tired, groggy in the morning, but after like 3 weeks it kind of wore off. I kind of like my mood and my energy was about the same, but I just lacked that like something to look forward to. And for me it was just like I looked forward to having that cup of coffee. I don't know what it is. Why'd you take a month off? Uh I wanted to see if I could do it. And I read something online or I watched a YouTube video about being addicted to caffeine and maybe it was like ASAP Science or something of of your body on caffeine. They mentioned that it was like 20 days or something like that that your body gets rid of it and like because you built up such a tolerance to it. I just figured it's probably a healthy thing to do. I mean, people that they've done studies on this, it's like one cup of coffee a day, those people live longer and are happier. On average. Now whether that's the cause or correlation, I don't know. But like I think it's dosage like most things. Like did you know if you smoke a cigarette three times a week, you're not really doing [ __ ] Like people don't talk about that. They're not like, "You can only smoke three a week." Instead they're like, "Smoking is so bad for you." But like if you smoked three a week, you most likely would never have anything happen. But don't you think if you smoked three a week that it would be very easy to for that person to want four The habit was there. Correct. Sure. But if you have self-control or discipline, if you're somebody that can actually do that, which I know people who are like they'll smoke a cigarette once a week or every 2 weeks or whatever. And you know, they they know all these things. Um they're like, "That's not bad, but it's it's the habit that gets people into it and say you can't stop." I mean, it's like anything in life, right? If we have too much of it, it's probably not going to be I watched a good video from Yes Theory where they visited the country that lives the longest. And for them it was wine. And they would be drinking a lot of wine. It was like two to three glasses a day of wine. But it seemed to be more of the lifestyle that it's a lot of socializing and a lot of just like a community aspect within a small town and they're all like drinking wine together. And it seems like that's probably better for you than the wine itself. I would think so. The communal aspect of it. Yeah. I [clears throat] mean like America doesn't have much of that at all. No. Oh, and their work schedule I think was like 3 days or 4 days. Like they had a much different schedule. I forget where this was. It was a really good video. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, there was another channel that got recommended. So, what is it? Sky Life. Where she interviewed some of the oldest living people and [snorts] tried to figure out their their secrets and a lot of it was having purpose, work. Uh but for them it was their church and like staying alive long enough to, you know, spread the gospel and and network with other people not network. It's a [laughter] network. But but had that supportive community where they're all like aligned together and and Oh, you know what it was? It was um part of the religion was very much about like no caffeine, no drinking, no smoking, uh all natural foods. And I think that really fed into it. Mhm. Who knows? That's the thing. Yeah. Is there anything you wanted to bring up or talk about here? I was going to ask you guys what your goals are right now. That was my next question. Just like what's the goal in terms of like with Ice Coffee Hour versus the, you know, the main channel? Like what are you guys focused on right now? Uh main channel for me is always like the top of the the top of the totem pole. It's about the same pyramid. [laughter] Top of the pyramid. I can't you can't say pyramid anymore without making it sound like a scam. a scam. I I've basically just gotten to a point where I really feel like I should be diversifying and trying different things and not just having you know, the the main channel which has basically been my core for such a long time. Mhm. And I know that I cannot sustain three videos a week indefinitely. There's got to be a point where eventually I'm going to scale down to two, maybe there's going to be one. Um or maybe it does, you know, just 5 years from now I'm like, yeah, yeah, I I don't want to continue making these videos. Who knows? But I want to have other things that I could do in conjunction with that main channel. Um so, it started off as a second channel which was the reaction videos. We've done the Ice Coffee Hour which I believe has probably the most longevity for anything. Uh Cuz the interview style. Right. But then it's like you don't want to just be uh you know, on camera all the time and I felt like Creator Properties would be a great way where I could continue focusing on all the other channels which are my priority right now while still investing and getting back to the roots of real estate. What is Creator Properties? So, it's a syndication where we could team up with other accredited investors and buy a property that is significantly bigger than I would be able to do on my own. And Ryan Pineda has such a tight team that's able to handle all of the day-to-day. And so, that's where the benefit really came in the sense that, you know, I could invest my money into this and get exposure to deals that I wouldn't have done on my own cuz I just I wouldn't have the time to find them. I wouldn't have the time to manage them. So much work that goes on behind the scenes in terms of like fixing up and remodeling. I couldn't do that and it's it's it would pull time away from everything else that I'm doing. So, you put your money in there and then how do you find the other people to, you know, put capital in? Just our own network. Whether that be just putting a link in the description. I've I've talked about it every now and then Ryan talked about it when he was on the podcast. Uh I found so far that usually just placing a link in the description. I I don't like to be too pitchy. Yeah. And so, I'm I'm always afraid like, hey guys, you know, go and sign up and oh, you know, it's expiring in 30 days and you got to do it now. Like I I just don't feel good about that. Um so, usually it's just I I feel better just putting a link in the description. I'll casually mention it and that's and that's it. And I feel like the people who are interested are more likely to do that anyway than like having it forced. What's the typical, you know, what's the minimum that someone has to put into one of those deals? It depends on the deal. It's going to be between probably 25 and 75,000 dollars. Oh, [ __ ] That's low. Yeah. Well, that makes sense, too, because I was thinking like for your channel like if it's like 500 grand or something, I'm like how many people are in No. Not Yeah, yeah. Okay. No. Um yeah, the first deal was 25 and I think going forward it's going to be higher. Um but a lot of the other ones that I've heard, some of the biggest ones are uh 250 to 350 grand. Yeah. And like they won't take anyone lower than that and that's like the standard they've set and uh they get it. Yeah. So, I think for this first one we really just wanted to test a proof of concept and we felt like, you know, 25 was an appropriate amount. Yeah. That makes sense. As long as it's to somebody that 25's not much money, it's not that hard to do that. It's not like a lot of pressure on you guys. Right. That's interesting. So, do you want to do more things like that? Is that what the goal is? I think the goal is to get to do that in conjunction with everything else. I mean, right now my goal is just to continue focusing on main, second, podcast channels. Have you guys thought about creating your own product? I'm not a product person. I mean, I I've wasted so much just energy and mental thoughts on like, oh, I should be doing this and you know, when Alex was here he got me thinking like, oh man, what am I doing? My strength and my enjoyment comes from making videos. And so, right now that should be my focus. I think anything else I'm not that person. I'm I love just getting down, planning out a video, scripting, filming, title, thumbnail. Like that's what I like doing. And that's I think my strength. Yeah. I think you should do that. I guess I just like from my perspective, right? Like like there's so many people that just want to work with somebody like you and build the business below it and like not bother you with any of it. But they could I don't know. I I I get my fingers in everything. It's hard for me to No. It's It's really hard for me to take a a backseat approach and just let someone else handle it. It's really difficult. Um if I see something I'm like, no, it should be done this way and I I I get too, you know, nitpicky with things. So, I've kind of realized that limitation. It's just Yeah. Yeah. And attaching my name to anything I would be a perfectionist in that knowing that if something goes bad, then I would obsess over how could I fix that? That would be hard to scale something then. Yeah. That makes sense then. Yeah. Main focus is just the Ice Coffee Hour for sure and growing and having the best possible guests on talking about the coolest possible stuff and I don't know, making the best content. Do you see something that Graham doesn't see in [snorts] terms of like where there's potential for the business? Oh, yeah. Yes, certainly. I'm I'm like very much so like, hey, let's keep like trying out new things, uh like hiring on more people, building, building, building. And Graham is very much like, what we're doing right now is working. Let's just continue doing it and if we continue doing that, we'll continue moving up. So, but I like I'm I think maybe I'm a little bit more risky, you know, and uh I want to try out more things that maybe are a little bit more exhausting such as potentially hiring someone and, you know, doing stuff like that. Interesting. I think both are needed though. So, it's a good balance. Yeah. It's just like most the time what you do is needed and then every once in a while we need the new ideas. So, it's like how can you in a safe environment continue to test ideas that's like low risk, low capital and then when one does work, then you're like, I like that, too. Then you can actually do it. Yeah. I think for me and the Ice Coffee Hour, the biggest thing is how can we break out of our I don't want to call it a rut, but right now our the the guests that we have on is within our sphere of influence. And it's people that we know or or people that we've reached out to or get back to us or who want to come on. Uh there's plenty people like that, but we want to get into just musicians, actors, uh people that we would never ordinarily come in contact with through the YouTube space. And we're having a hard time doing that because we look at, let's say, podcasts like uh NELK or Impulsive. Mhm. And they're getting some of these people like, how I I can't believe it. Like NELK got the president on or the former president Trump. Um and like I'm not expecting that we would get, you know, a president on, but some of the people that they're on I'm like, oh my gosh, how did they do that? That's incredible. Um and I think we need to break into that. Do you know those people? Like of the podcast Impulsive cuz you talked to them? Yes. Uh no. I mean, I I watch their podcast. I watch almost every single one of them. Yeah, cuz I feel like the fastest way is actually not to go figure out how to get the influencers or like the celebrities or the musicians or any of that stuff. It'd be to go to the people that have those podcasts and say, how do you get these people on your show? They literally just DM them. I mean, Logan Paul has 20 million followers on Instagram. So, it's like he DMs anybody, they see it. That she's on their stuff. Interesting. Right. So, have you tried DMing them and they don't respond? Yeah, we we would send out I mean, she [laughter] Jack's like Jack was like, I DM Celine Dion. I DM Bruno Mars. And I'm like, Jack, they're never going to get back to us. we used to do is we'd go on these walks and we'd come up with a list of like 20 possible people we could bring on the podcast and cop you know, create a copy paste. Should I say copy paste? No. It wasn't quite a template, but I would go through and personalize every single one of them. Yeah. And we would send this out to those 20 people that we created the list of. And then I did it one recently. I thought it was funny because I looked up, you know, mainstream celebrities in Las Vegas and sure, Celine Dion was on the list. And sure, Bruno Mars was on the list. But if you don't shoot, you can't make it. Yeah. The thing I think with a lot of those people is that they have large PR teams that they just can't come on and talk candidly on a podcast without a lot of review and approval ahead of time cuz anything they say could reflect on so many different avenues. As soon as you land one though, then you can use that to land because I've I've actually encountered this several times where people are like, all right, show me the best episodes you've had or the coolest people you've had on. And I've had to like send this out to people for trying to get someone on. Um so, that's very common. Yeah, I know like Steve Aoki lives here and like, you know, What's going on with that, man? What? What's going on with that? Oh, I feel like I know multiple people who are like friends with him here. I'm like, I feel like he would come on. Yeah. He has a Yeah. There was a point where it was like, you know, COVID time and and didn't feel comfortable with you know, coming on at that point. Yeah, with everything he was doing so yeah, I got to reach back out. Yeah, you should reach back out. I feel like that's a great one. Especially because I don't think people know that he's like such a great business person and they are just like oh Steve Aoki the DJ. I'm like no dude, he's like a savage. Oh yeah. That's sick. Yeah. So yeah, I think he's just breaking into that. Yeah, I was actually doing some thinking. I think it would be a smart idea. We hire a podcast producer for 3 months. I really like that. Yeah. I love it. I think it's a great idea. months and if we don't see a benefit in 3 months, that's the end of it. There's 90 days. They have 90 days. You should just totally like if you're ever trying to like hire somebody and it's like it just bring someone as a contractor say it's a project basis and we'll re-evaluate 90 days. Yeah, part of part of the thing for me is that I feel like I've done everything myself and I'm like we could just do it. We have four people between us and Andrew. Four people there's no reason why we can't accomplish that. But well not everyone wants you though. Yeah, but I feel like everyone has the time. No, this is this is the fallacy that most founders like you have when you're like a very capable person is you think that it takes everyone else the same time it takes you and that's the reason why businesses can't grow is people like well I'm not going to hire someone cuz like Sally can do that for two. They don't have the attention. Yeah. Most people don't have the attention to do what you do and have that much dedicated like most people have so many other things going on in their lives. I mean to get myself out of the business, it's probably like five to six roles that need to get hired that are high-level people that are paid like you know between 200 and 500 grand a year each. To get Alex out of the business, it's usually like you know eight to 10 people to get him out to like build a whole marketing department basically. So it's like it just never you're never going to find like one person who's going to be able to do it as well as you. And most team if it's something you're good at. If it's something you're bad at, you'll for sure find people that are better than you at it cuz you're like I don't think that we're particularly good at reaching out to guests cuz that's something that lies in your court of like the responsibilities of this podcast and I would say honestly that's one of the things that we need the most amount of Why would you be the one to reach out to? I would get someone I would pay them a commission based on the guests that they're going to get. So you basically have like an A-list, B-list, C-list guest and they get paid a commission based on the kind of guests that they bring on to the show. That's I literally said that exact thing to you. I said the exact thing. Yep. You mentioned the commission. You never said A, B, and C. Yes, I know. I I I literally said they bring on this tier, we pay them X amount. They bring on this tier, we pay them X amount. I don't remember that. I don't remember. I just feel like if you have someone full-time doing that, that's going to get you out of the rut. I 100% agree. I think that is I think that is the main reason we need a producer is for guest outreach. I don't even think it's for the production of the podcast. I think that's all going fine. it's not a producer. What would you call it because a producer is going to the person that you attract is like It would help if they greased up the machine that is the podcast, you know, I kind of like Yeah, but that's not going to make the biggest difference and so if you put out video producer, 99.9% of people can't do that thing. it be like an agent or something? I would have to Google it for sure. Yeah. To me it sounds like you have like you build up some sort of network of a couple people that just kind of have contacts and um once one of them find somebody that would be suitable for us, then they get paid you know, like the fee. Yeah, it's and it's beneficial for them and for us. Is this just a commission thing that so we just put feelers out and we say maybe with five people we'll pay you based on the guests you bring in. You could do five people or if you pay one person, ideally that person has a network of people who do what they do and then they'll just pay those people if they really need something and then they cover it with their commission. worth it to hire somebody who maybe is just resourceful? Like one person who does everything but maybe they could you know, find people and network say this which is I work with a company that does something similar and the guy is very resourceful but it takes time to build a network and so what you don't have is that you have the time that he's undergoing to build that network that you have to pay for. But if you can find somebody who's already built that network, then you don't have to pay for that time. You just pay for their experience. Yeah. And I mean I think I I don't like waiting so I'm like I would rather find somebody who's already done it and already has a network cuz building one takes time. That's just me though. I like that. What do you think on that Jack? Good idea. Love it. Cuz I think we're under the mindset that that we have to hire someone full-time for 3 months. No. Okay. You can hire I mean you can literally do it every you want. You just have to be clear and set the expectations to that person. So like I would just be clear when I'm putting a wreck out there. I'd be like I'm hiring someone to get this project. You have 3 months and if you're able to hit this goal which is maybe like two A-list guests or something like that, would you want to bring them on full-time? Like what would they have to do in those first 3 months for you to say now I would want to bring you on full-time and then you tell them that's what it is and it's very clear and if they agree to it and you agree to it, then like it's great. Works on both sides. Yeah. I I I agree. Mhm. Let's do that. Okay. I think it's good. Cool. Yeah, we got to get this out by tomorrow. I know. Yeah, of course. Keep going. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. This has actually been really helpful for us too. Oh good. Yeah, I appreciate you guys having me. Cool. Well, thank you. I'll link to all of your info down below in the description where you can also get a free stock. can follow me on Instagram all the way up to $2,000 in free stock for public. Check out Alex and his Instagram. Thank you our sponsors. Wait, did you just say for some reason? For some reason and with that said you guys Till next time. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you.