Meditz College of Arts & Sciences Dean's Series - The Future of Chemistry, Research, & Careers

[music] Hi, I'm Richard Greenwald, dean of the College of Arts and Sciences at Fairfield University, and welcome [music] to the Dean series on the future of work, where we meet with alum and faculty to talk about the transformations of the workplace and how our students can prepare for uh launching their careers, whether it be medical school, graduate, school, law school or work um into the new 21st century. Today I'm joined by two wonderful individuals and we're going to talk about chemistry, particularly organic chemistry. We're joined by Mary Duke, uh Fairfield University graduate from the class of 1991 with a degree in chemistry. Uh Mary went on to pursue her PhD in organic chemistry at Boston College and graduated in 1996 with her PhD and then spent a number of years as a national science foundation post-doal fellow at Harvard University uh before joining uh Fizer uh and spent a number of years at FISA where she co-authored 28 peer-reviewed publications and was the co-inventor of 10 patents as well as several additional provisional patent uh applications. patients. After Harvard, Mary worked as a researcher and project team leader at Fizer in Connecticut for 12 years on cardiovascular and metabolic diseases, therapeutic um areas. Uh during her time at Fizer, she designed and synthesized uh novel drugs and led a team of 40 scientists in drug discovery and development. She contributed innovative therapies continuing in clinical testing. Mary also served as a board member on the Fiser Women's Leadership Network and chaired the uh SURF summer undergraduate research fellowship program selection committee. In 2019, Mary co-founded Traveling Toys, a nonprofit organization dedicated to expanding access to play through lending libraries of toys. Traveling Toys has established lending libraries in 16 towns across Connecticut with funding to open four more in the fall of 2025. In 2024, Traveling Toys circulated 70,000 toys and games and expanded into Rhode Island and also in addition has been working with St. Nicholas Children's Hospital in Ukraine. Uh Mary, thank you for joining us. And uh with Mary we have um Dr. Ed O'Connell who taught and mentored inspired students for over five decades 56 years. Ed received his BS from Providence College in chemistry his PhD in organic chemistry from Yale. He spent four years working as a research scientist at DuPant and then joined the chemistry faculty at Fairfield University in 1967. Um, so I made a mistake. 54 years of of of teaching. Uh, retired in 2021. You served five university presidents and I gave up counting the number of deans including me. Um, you know, you were department chair for 19 years. you shaped the department, hired all of the faculty in the department and really championed student faculty research long before it was the norm. Ed's research interests are in organic uh photochemistry where he studies the interaction where he studied the interaction of light uh with organic molecules. He's known for his intense interactive Socratic teaching style. uh generations of Fairfield chemistry majors and premed students have fond memories of your kind and rigorous mentoring and your dedication to teaching. We were talking about how premed students are often fearful of organic chemistry, but so many of our alum who are successful doctors credit you with teaching them in that particular course and inspiring them. Um Ed is a marathoner, gardener, driftwood, birdhouse builder, and observer of climate science. And he has a great love of the Boston Marathon. In fact, before we started, he showed me a picture of some of his students uh from back in the 1990s. >> 1990. Yeah. >> Who were cheering you on as you were running the marathon uh that year. So, thank you very much, Mary and Ed, for joining me on this episode. you know, before we get into it, one of the things I want to talk about is getting to know a little bit about your story, right? Um, I'm a historian, so I, you know, I have limited knowledge of chemistry or organic chemistry, but Ed, I'd be interested in knowing, you know, as this is one of the the courses that students worry about because it is one of those courses that, you know, decides whether or not a student's going to go to medical school or graduate school or not. Um and as someone who was teaching that course with a really successful record of having students inspired and being successful um what did you see some of the changes in the field and how it was taught in the field of organic chemistry? I think some of the uh the newer approaches that one of the most difficult things for students to master is not only the facts that they have to learn but be able to know which facts do I have to draw on. If I want to synthesize a substance where I know the structure of what I want to make, how do you take a look at that structure and decide what pieces you have to put together in order to get it to congeal properly? So there's a a methodology uh that we call retroynthesis, right? Where you you basically change the problem from looking at it from the forward direction steps to get where you want to go. Take it from the back and say how could I get from what I want what I could go in one step. You know that's the what you want to call the target. Now you say what the immediate precursor could be using a one-step reaction. So now you move it back and you keep on moving it back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back back until you get what you have available. That's that's the approach that no was taught so much. I think in most times when I learn organic chemistry there was no systematic way just because they're just reactions. They didn't seem to hang together at all. At least I couldn't hang them together. And then when I was at Yale I was really influenced by the person I had for organic chemistry as a first year student. His name was William During. He was a masterful teacher. Absolutely masterful teacher. great uh control of his voice control great drawer on the blackboard. Great thinker, a person that no one liked. [laughter] >> But I said, I'm not going to work for that guy. [laughter] >> But yet you went into that field. >> I did because but he had a lot to do with it because he was he just I just learned so much from him. >> Right. and you're you're you know responsible for involving students in research at at Fairfield in in you know higher ed right now that's a norm for a school like Fairfield. It wasn't when you started to do that. Right now we have 300 students on you know April 23rd who are going to be presenting their research projects you know publicly at this university. When you started there weren't nearly that many students. I was I uh I think uh one of the things that you want me to think about what what's changed the most since when I started as to now. So one of the things was when I first came here there was almost no research going on in chemistry. There was a professor who was hired a couple years before me. His name was Joseph Boio. He was a physical chemist and he was doing research but it was really difficult research. difficult instrumentation, difficult conceptually, difficult how to do computations to get to where you wanted to go. So it wasn't really good for students to get involved in. So I came and I had all sorts of uh very doable projects. So, so for a long time research in the department was basically myself and Joe Bojo and that was there for a long time and then I would say maybe 10 15 years later roughly Joe Zarneski came and he uh involved lots of students in research and he also collaborated with someone at Yale on photosynthesis and he was he was really good. Okay. And then uh uh then after that it was another good gap until Matt Kubasa came and then a gap and then the where the uh amount of research with students really mushroomed was when Amanda and Johnowski came and then Aaron van Djk after that. So now you got to and then Jill also. So now you have uh four or five people who were doing lots of research with students and students who lots of they've got a lot of practice in presenting to become more classy as far as the way they present. So it's been from when I started zero up to now where it's pretty prolific. >> Yeah. And then we have to say every year there's probably between 13 and 17 students presenting at the American Chemical Society conference. um you know that's a you know there's always a wonderful photograph of them but they're uh doing amazing work and I think that's part of your legacy hiring the the faculty getting that situated and seeing that as a priority within the department I think it's vibrant now it wasn't so much me it's just the fact that as time went on that became a higher and higher expectation of a of a successful candidate for a position not only had to have a good research background yourself but you had show that you could probably incorporate students into your work. It's no good if you could bring someone in here who I work at. It's too sophisticated. Right. Right. >> But you were also a chair mentoring those faculty. So that's something to keep in mind. >> Yeah. Yeah. So yeah. >> And one of the the students you were teaching you know um you know in the late 80s and early 90s was Mary. And so, you know, Mary, tell us a little bit about your path and why chemistry, why organic chemistry, and what was your experience like when you were a student here. >> So, I selected chemistry because I thought that I would be going to medical school. That was kind of what I always had in my head. And then as a senior, I worked in a hospital and I realized that I had kind of an aversion to blood. So, um, I came to Fairfield as a chemistry major because for me, chemistry is something that you could kind of problem solve, whereas in biology, I felt like I had to memorize everything. So, I thought maybe I could kind of problem solve my way through my chemistry degree. And, you know, I didn't really think about the different types of chemistry, but when I met Dr. Okonnell and he came into the classroom, comes in, you know, just walks in and starts writing on the board. no notes, nothing, and just blew everyone away in that class. And there was only five chemistry majors in my class at the time. So, we were really kind of a close group and we got to know the faculty here. And then I was really lucky to have the experience to go with Dr. Serneski to Yale in the summer with a summer undergraduate research fellowship from Fizer. and having hands-on experience as an undergraduate is what's going to distinguish you from other candidates if you are looking for a job, you know, right out of school. And that really helped and and Dr. Okonnell was there teaching organic chemistry in the summer at Yale. So, we all, you know, kind of hung out together and it was the chemistry faculty here really made my experience wonderful and that's why I decided to go on to graduate school. And uh I didn't even actually really appreciate at the time but when you go to graduate school uh it's free and they give you a stipend which was a bonus from my parents who were like how are you going to pay for this? So that was something that I think you know I thought well I'll go and in the worst case I could leave with my masters and I just was in a program and it just kept going and I and it's like never turned back and I think when people say I hated chemistry in high school that's usually what I get and and and then they say organic chemistry and they're like that that's crazy and then I think well they didn't have someone like Dr. OConnell teaching organic chemistry because that was what really inspired me to to want to continue. >> Thank you. Very nice. And and just going back to that, you're you thinking about medical school, you decide to do chemistry, you spend a summer in a research lab working with a faculty member, right? Um and then you start looking at graduate schools. So when you get to graduate school, you know, you're it's a competitive environment. There are students from everywhere, right? So how did you feel your education stacked up against some some of your colleagues? >> Well, I was in a really good position because I left um Fairfield with two publications even before I got to graduate school, which I think really helped me set myself apart from the other students. But when I first started graduate school, the first year is just classes. And I did so well in organic chemistry that you had to take an entrance exam that I had received a women's fellowship for two years that paid my stipend, which really helped me because I started my research earlier because I didn't have to be a teaching assistant. So it it it just really worked out really well for me. And you know like I said Fairfield really set me up for success in graduate school. >> So after you received your PhD you you went the normal posttock route and right at Harvard which is you know impressive but then decided to pivot to industry because the typical path might be academia. >> Yeah. So I was at the time I wanted to try something different in my postoc. So, I started to try to go into biology, more more biology research. And then I realized I'm so much better as a chemist that I am as a biologist. And thinking about weighing the pros and cons between academics and and going into the pharmaceutical industry, for me anyway, it was like a life choice because at the time in organic chemistry, there was only about 17% women in in organic chemistry anyway. And if you looked at academics, I think at the level of being a professor was about 11% or something. And when I started to realize why is that is just because of your life balance. And what I thought Fiser really offered was the opportunity to do really great research and kind of have a normal life. So that's why I chose Fizer and Fizer supported me as an undergraduate and when I went back to give my talk there for for a job interview. I was in the same room that I g that I gave a talk when I was an undergraduate which kind of was that deja vu feeling. Um but the people there I loved how they ran a project. They put a chemist with a biologist and drug metabolism person and you worked on a really great team. So, >> and you then you were part of the committee that selected students for those kinds of opportunities, right? And so, what was that like sitting on the other side of the table? And you know, and Ed, you had prepared many students for sitting >> Yeah. >> you know, for that interview. >> Yeah. >> So, what was that that like? I mean, Ed, how did you help prepare students? And then what did you see on the other side? Well, we had to write a research proposal with our professor or I would say our professor really wrote it at the time and submit it to say this is the research we're going to do in the summer. And then I think I felt like Fiser was really good at if you have a good plan they want students to have that experience because that's the kind of student they want to hire. you know, if you're coming out with your bachelor's degree or your masters, someone that has lab experience. >> And so, how would you go about working with a student to prepare that proposal? And >> oh, I would assume that I would know of a student in in the department and maybe even worked a little bit with them so they they know how to approach a research problem. And then I would just say, well, you got to make sure in the first few sentences of your proposal, you make it clear what you want to do, how you're going to do it, and you have the wherewithal to do it. That's important to get those things out early. So then the reader has more confidence in you. Yeah. Then the the the the minutiae part, you know, isn't as important as that, I don't think. Anyway, and and Fairfield has always had a very strong core curriculum. I mean in the liberal arts and in you know um ability to communicate write clearly and all of that. Did you think that that helped prepare you as well for some of these things and in in in your career? I I I think so because what I didn't realize is you would be presenting so much of your science to your peers and your professor and that gives the opportunity to work on your public speaking and um kind of think on the spot because people ask you some really hard questions about your research. So I I felt like when I went to graduate school I had gotten all of that here. And you know I'm also thinking that Ed in your time teaching and researching there there were enormous um transformations with technology and equipment. Right. >> In my time absolutely >> and we're living through one now where where we're we're looking at what is the meaning for AI and science research and all of those things. Is that a continuation or in some way you know an evolution of tech and science and research methods or is that something completely disruptive? I not it's not I don't think I was disruptor but I think the the biggest change is looking at myself as an undergraduate and and and then early on here the the the the types of equipment available was minimal and there's been a boom of equipment right you know magnetic resonance right so many mass spectrometry so many things right so that was a big no AI is is not really instrumental but I mean I think I don't know I read that I'm not up on it. But in terms of retroynthesis, it would seem like AI would be a good tool to to mimic that. But as far as I can tell, you still need a human person there at the same time. It can't always drive you back the way you would want to approach the problem yourself. But >> I just think of the AI for science is is a a wonderful tool and you'll always need the scientist to actually go into the lab and perform it. Even if you have robots, you still need to have someone that's critically looking at what's going on and saying, you know, this is how we want to run it. >> And how familiar should students be with the new technology today, you think, if they're going to prepare for themselves, whether it's going into graduate school or working in industry, right? >> Well, by new technology, you mean the the types of instrumentation they would use in a laboratory, they have to be familiar with it. They have to be. There isn't there's no question about it. they'd be lost without it. They they So that's that's up to the departments that teach the students to make sure they're exposed to it. Okay? And and learn how to use these tools to solve real problems. You just don't want to learn the tool unless you can apply it to a real problem. So then it becomes almost second nature. You have a problem. Oh, I can use this method, this method, this meth this will work. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I do I'm I'm assuming, you know, when I go visit the science faculty, one of the things I notice is that they're always around. They're always in their labs and there are always students. And I'm wondering if that was also the case, Mary, when you were a student here. >> I That's exactly what it was like. and you could go, you didn't really have to worry about office hours because you could just find whoever was here and they would help you go through whatever you know if you didn't understand something because like for me physical chemistry was not easy. I mean all the faculty we just felt like you you knew them all um very very well and they knew you. >> Yeah. So like say uh like I would I would routinely come to the class to school maybe a half hour before class. I always had a first period and I was there till late in the afternoon, you know, no one worried about office hours. You're wandering around here, there, everywhere, but people find you and that was just that was just the norm. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and how collaborative uh between science departments was it um you know it's it was a smaller school um but with all the scientists in the same building. Um what were the relationships between faculty and different departments and what were the relationships between students? Well, there there wasn't a whole lot in my time almost no collaboration with physics, almost no collaboration with psychology. biology small and then we had a lot of conflict with biology for I would say uh a 5 to 10 year period deciding who would be in charge of developing and running a biochemistry program because when I first came here and for a long time after that there wasn't even a biochemistry course taught and then there was a Jesuit did you know father Elder >> yes he taught me biochemistry >> yeah so well so father Elder uh showed up from uh Colorado. Uh I'm trying to think of the school he went to. I I forget now. He showed up and when he first showed up, he wore his Jesuit clothes for about a day or two and then No, never again. [snorts and laughter] >> But and I uh I'm only a kid at this time and uh the dean of the time was Coughlin. Dean Coughlin comes up to me. He says, "Look at we're trying to hire this guy, John Elder. You know, could you come interview him?" So I'm I'm probably 26 or seven years old. probably looked 20. So Elder comes in. He's what's this guy talking to? [laughter] He joined the department and he developed a biochemistry course and then as he got older he slowed down some, but it looked like it would be a good idea to make that mushroom some. So we changed our name. Well, didn't have to change it from it was already in the book. We made now chemistry and biochemistry and that kind of aggravated biology. So, uh, there was some there was some really nasty times for at least a couple of years and that got settled. >> Yeah. >> Now it's harmonious. >> Now it's harmonious. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And and what about when you were a student? Were there, you know, you were all in the same building, you know, on different floors and different labs? Um, what was that like? We we pretty much never left the same chemistry floor and we didn't really mix with biology or physics and we spent all of our time if you were doing depending on what lab you were taking you were in in the building working on whatever you were working on. That's I can I can say from from my perspective again not a scientist just looking at faculty talking with faculty talking with students and being in the building there's a lot more collaboration a lot more interchange and interplay between uh disciplines right and maybe that has to do with the science institute which might not have been you know in existence then but that's a you know a way of organizing and supporting student and faculty research through a collaboration and through interdicciplinary activity. >> I mean, right now it's like if you're an organic chemist, you can make a molecule and your biologist can test it to see where how it works in the body, how it works in the cell. And that's the kind of collaboration I think, you know, that's how we discover drugs, right? You make a a compound and then you have it tested in your system. So there's you would think that there's a lot of opportunity to work together. >> Yeah. And I see that with grant applications, you know, between chemists and biologists, but also between bioengineers and students working in each of the labs, so they get multiple kinds of experiences. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. So now I just think it's just the way the game is played. It isn't there's no it just happens now. The the collaboration of chemistry and biology, it has to be because you can't operate as alone an island by yourself anymore. Can't. >> Yeah. I I want to pivot Mary to talk about your new work with the not for profofit. Um it is different than your industry experience, but it seems very much fitting with like um a Jesuit sensitivity and sensibility. And I'm wondering where that drive came from and you know how you built that up. >> Yeah. So, I had been trying to figure out what's a good way to give back to the community and one of my very good friends and I were trying to come up with some kind of concept. And so, we incorporated Traveling Toys in 2019, which is a nonprofit that provides highquality age appropriate toys to promote play because play is so important for children. And we felt that if we could establish toy lendium libraries that that would help us enhance creativity, learning and the development of children and teens. And so since 2019 we have right now in Connecticut opened up we partner with public libraries and we've opened up now I think there's 20 toy libraries that are open and we have funding for four more to open soon. And it's been really wonderful to see the impact it's had on communities >> and and 70,000 toys in that catalog is a lot. >> Well, in 2023 we thought we were really astounded that we had circulated 22,000 toys and then in 2024 it was 70,000. And and when you hear back from the librarians like that the grandparents are coming in to borrow toys and that you know families that can't afford to buy toys are coming in every week. the stories that we're here really that's what makes this nonprofit really mean so much to us and I think that's falls in with what we've learned at Fairfield right for service and to give back and it feels really good to be able to do that through this >> seems very Jesuitical uh for sure and and and also expanding that not just in Connecticut to Rhode Island and Ukraine. >> Yes. So, we were hoping I mean our goal is to be all over the United States. That's like what our big dream would be. And so, we've expanded into Rhode Island. We're working in Rhode Island right now. And then Kids Operating Room, which is a global nonprofit, approached us and asked us if we would set up play spaces in in in a hospital. And in this particular case, they were putting operating rooms in St. Nicholas's Children's Hospital in Leviv, Ukraine. and I am 100% Ukrainian and it just it felt like the universe was telling me that this made a lot of sense for us to do and my partner and I just felt like let's expand traveling toys. So it construction is ongoing now and we did fundraising to build six play spaces. So it's the like the waiting rooms for post and pre-op operative surgical rooms. So, >> and how big is your staff? >> Um, four. >> Yeah, >> four. But we're we're getting volunteers all the time, but yes, it's it's pretty small because how we operate is we write grants to get the money and we work with the library and the librarians are are rock stars pretty much in this because they run the program. So, we give them the money and they run the program. >> Yeah. And that I mean I think partnering with an anchor institution like a library is so important right it it it provides those resources but organizing a team of volunteers doing that kind of work um you know the drive is there but I'm I'm wondering you know working in in in science working in business you know what were the challenges you faced when you moved into that not forprofit space. >> Well, it's so much easier than organic chemistry. [laughter] So, the the problem solving is just different and I feel like it's just a a different time in my life and you know, I have boys that are teenagers now. So, I kind of went through every single toy that was on the market and thinking about, you know, giving children access to different things. >> That's terrific. Yeah. Wow. Do you miss the lab? >> You know, the funny thing about the lab is a lot of people say, "Well, I wouldn't want to, you know, spend all my time in this lonely lab." Well, when I was at Fizer, I was only in my first about third year, I stopped working in the lab. So, I was then running the lab. So, I haven't really been in the lab for a really long time. I'd be kind of scared to go back in there. But, I feel like there's a lot of overlap between cooking and chemistry, which I love to cook. I'm I'm a great cook. >> Okay. I I feel like I am, too. [laughter] >> That's the thing I do best as a cook. >> But I I do I do miss the project and the excitement when you get some compound that you know lights up in an assay and then that's your lead. And the thing about organic chemistry when Ed was saying you know you take the molecule apart like if you gave Ed and I a compound and went into different rooms we would come back and we make it a different way. >> That could be. And you know the thing about it is is like as a medicinal chemist we just needed to make the compound to see if it was going to work and then like process chemistry they have to make that compound in the most highly efficient way to scale it up. So there's all these really exciting things in organic chemistry to think about. Um >> so when you were a student and you were teaching did you break down those different research opportunities and and sort of subcategories of the field itself? Uh well I I as I say I worked in the area of of photochemistry but it also involved a lot of uh correlation of spectroscopic measurements with the structures of the compounds. So you're interested in fluoresence possibilities, phosphoresence possibilities, lifetimes of excited states, all sorts of different things. So, it was a a wonderful area to work in and and it was easy easy enough to teach kids because you could have them start out by doing a part of it and then they would integrate themselves into it. So, it was a great area to work in. Yeah. >> Well, I'm just thinking like you were talking about you you build a compound and then someone else has to figure out the process for producing it more efficiently. Right. So, it's it's that's the business aspect of it, right? >> Yes. cuz you can make something and be like so proud of it and then it doesn't do anything. So then no one cares how you made it. >> Well, that's true. >> That happens a lot actually because I think as one thing you learn as a scientist is not to take failure as a negative but to take it as this is the next step is going to teach me this didn't work so what am I going to do next? So you have to kind of be always moving because 95% of what you do fails. And I would imagine that's, you know, something students have to learn. They're um and and you know, this is different. I'm a historian, so it's it's a little different. You're working with students in your lab, Ed. You're you know, publishing papers with students. You had published, you said two papers, Mary, with a faculty member working with students, not grad students, not PhD students. There's going to be mistakes, right? So how how do you you know how do you coach a student through that so they have resilience to continue forward? >> I I don't think I had to coach anybody. I mean so I I wasn't in synthesis for synthesis sake. I was trying to figure out what kinds of structures uh could withstand input of energy using uh UV invisible light and not change because when I was at Dupant I was trying to make things photostable. So you learn what kind of structural features lend themselves to photo stability rather than photo reactivity. So when you come up with the kind of based on what you see in a laboratory say oh this structure I'll tweak it a little bit and see if it makes it better. So the tweak then becomes a synthesis. I'm a hacker in the laboratories but I'm not a synthetic chemist at all but I I got better. So I would only be doing synthesis to come up with something that I could test for another reason. But the students did a lot of good synthesis for me. You know, I would I would lay out what I wanted and I say this is just should work. And as you check these references in in the literature, you can get ways of approaching the problem and see what happens. Yeah. >> Yeah. And you you probably had those experiences in the lab as a student and also as a scientist where certain things didn't work, right? >> Yeah. A lot a lot of things don't work but you know you can make your molecule again and then you know you prove that you made it but then what are you making it for is the next bigger question right so in in at Fizer that's what you're doing is you're looking for the next drug candidate and so does it have all the qualities that you want and then you get something that's you something that looks good that might be active that you continue on and then you find out that it has some terrible property that it's not going to be a drug because it's not stable. So then you you know scrap that and keep going. So there's a lot a lot of a lot of things you need to think about but you have to look at it as what what did we learn so we can go forward. >> So one piece of advice I'd wonder if you can give uh current students who are looking for uh you know entry into pharmaceutical firms or into the business world from a chemistry major. What kinds of skills do you think that they might need and what advice would you have for those current students that how they should prepare for that? >> Yes. So, I think if you're going to take an entry level position like a chemistry bachelor's degree right out of school, you really want to you want to have a good GPA because that's the first thing that they're going to use to kind of >> screen your resume. But I think what's going to differentiate you from another candidate is if you had any undergraduate research experience. And that will put your resume up to the top. And and it can be, you know, I would I would encourage students to start looking sophomore year for some opportunities whether it's in a lab here at Fairfield with their faculty or there's many outside opportunities, but just at least get themselves familiar with a laboratory before they're considering a job. it. Well, I'm I'm basically say your G your GPA is going to get someone's attention, right? And then once you get they get your get someone's attention, they're going to look down deeper into your application. And if you have a research experience, it means you you know how to take this and that and put it together. This doesn't work. What can I adjust it? So you you you have a person who can think through problems. So those are the kind of things I think as a a person looking as a to try and pick a potential candidate. First of all, he wants someone who's capable. Then he wants someone who has a way who can think their way through a problem and and a research experience would would almost guarantee that. That's the way I think, >> right? And now, you know, just you we're getting towards the end of our time and one of the things I always ask folks, you know, what are the some of the enduring questions in the field of chemistry that have remained constant that you think all students still have to ponder. >> So you you say all students certainly have to always keep up with spectroscopic measurements, the new and better ways of determining structure, etc. You always have to do that, right? And uh you're always going to be dealing with all sorts of aspects of energetics because that's what makes things happen. Yes or no? And how fast. So you have to be able to connect all of that phenomena that you observe hopefully to from an organic chemist perspective to structure. If you can correlate structure to energy, you have you you have a real good handle on what's going to happen and what's not going to happen. So I so I did a lot of that, an awful lot of that because I a lot of that comes from my experience when I was at DuPont. I was hired into Dupont to as becoming I was part of a problem-solving group. We didn't manufacture anything. We didn't make anything. the the president of DuPont decided it would be a good idea to come up with a establish a problem-solving group that will be at the beck and call of the what they call the operating department. They made products and money but sometimes they had problems they couldn't they didn't have the wherewithal to solve them so they would come to us. So I the organic chemists in in the group got promoted to be supervisor so they need organic chemists. So lo and behold >> that was you. Yeah. And I just fit right into that. I loved it. >> I think if you come out of Fairfield University with a chemistry degree, you know, you're not an organic chemist. You know a little bit about all chemistry, right? Oh, that's right. >> And and what you do really learn here is to be a a problem solver and someone that looks at things and thinks about them critically and makes a decision and then you use that data to go forward. And I think that what they Fairfield did for me was exactly that. And you can use that in every aspect of your life. >> Problem solving. That's that's basically that's what I do >> except for my wife says I create problems. [laughter] >> I mean it was it was interesting earlier today. Um, I had the pleasure of having a, you know, an ex- email exchange, a brief conversation with one of your students and one of your classmates, uh, Thomas Poon of of, uh, class of 1990, Fairfield, graduate chemistry major. It was just announced he's now the president of Lyola Marry Mount University. And, and one could imagine that the problem solving he learned as an undergraduate will come in handy as president of a university. So, um, you know, thank you so much for being here and teaching all of our students and Mary for coming back and sharing your journey with us. Um, I always like to ask a question from a student. What class outside of your major do you remember most? >> There was so much I mean there's so much science there's so much science here. Um, but I think my [clears throat] Latin class probably was what I remember most. I it was a very small class that again there was only six people in it and we only took it for a year and you stayed with those six people and it was very interesting. That was the other class that really stood out as far as it's very different again from organic action. >> Yes. Yes. Well, thank you very much for being here. I really do appreciate the time. Um and thank you for joining us for the uh college of arts and sciences dean series on the future of work. >> [music] [music]