Marketing Has an AI Problem Few Discuss | Acer’s Sooraj Balakrishnan

Hello, well, and welcome everyone. This is Bridge Pawar again, and today I have with me Suraj Balakrishnan who is the head of marketing for Acer in India and Bangladesh. Uh hi Suraj, how are you doing? >> I'm great, and I'm so happy to be here talking to you, and it's an important topic which we're discussing, so I hope I can contribute to this discussion. >> Interesting. So, Suraj, we we are seeing a revolution of sorts, right? I mean, a lot of people who were before us sat through the dot-com revolution, right? I think this is bigger than that, the revolution from artificial intelligence. And marketing leaders today are dealing with a rare convergence of forces, if I would say. Uh you know, AI is changing how campaigns are made and measured. Consumer attention is fragmented. CFOs are demanding clearer ROI. In this environment, what is the single biggest mindset shift that marketers like you need to make? >> Great question. I think in this age, I think what we should look at is the shift is from persuasion to participation. I think that's very important aspect look at it. See, if you look at consumers, they're not no longer passive audience per se, you know, they're receiving brand message, they want to interact with brands, they want to shape conversations, they want to share experiences, they want to influence how brands evolve, right? And that's important aspect. So, as marketers, we must create opportunities for customers to participate through communities, user-generated content, reviews, co-creation, feedback, brand experience, all of that. Uh it's important that they feel part of the brand than just being a passive listener for in that sense. And when they start contributing to a brand story, they develop a stronger sense of ownership and advocacy. And and that means maybe we give up some control, right, in that sense, right? So, I think being a perfectly orchestrated broadcast message might not be the the the way to go forward, but it's more important to build a platform where the brand and its customer can create meaningful experiences together. So, I think I think the shift is that, you know, marketers per se should should go away from just persuading, pushing the message, but rather make the audience participate in their brand. >> Interesting. You know, but you know, with with social media booming, with you you know, you talked about participation. Participation is increasingly becoming um uh you know, a lot of a lot of brands are now approaching their audiences via social media, via creator-led communities, right? And that makes uh um experiencing a brand with smaller attention uh even more difficult, right? Because that particular creator is showing it to a lot of people. So, how do you use the term experiences? If you can delve deep into it, how do you create personalized experiences today when every brand is almost essentially sending the same message every day to the consumer? >> I think what's most important is that, you know, how do we make our brand relevant to their current journey, right? So, when users are experiencing something on on various platforms, how does a brand seamlessly integrate into that platform? How do you ensure that platform gives you the experience which the brand also is trying to give you? Um you know, when when you look at, for example, if somebody is is is on a travel uh website or looking at something related to travel, um it's important that we communicate to the person in a way which connects to that person related to travel, for example. So, the messaging, for example, I mean, if you take our example, then, you know, how do you make your travel better with the lightest, you know, laptop with the longest battery, for example, right? So, in a sense, AI helps us to kind of optimize the message in those platforms and in those instances where, as as a user, when when they when they kind of go through that journey, they're able to get the relevant context from the brand. Instead of just fitting a message which is, you know, meant for all, right? I think that's the most important aspect. I mean, it's it's not one-to-many, it's it's one-to-one is what we really need to push for. And definitely, in that sense, some of the tools which we use really help us to kind of contextualize the kind of ad we put out, and I think that's where we really need to push more and more. And when you when you say create experiences as well, you know, it's important that we make them part brand, what I was saying before. So, it could be that right from listening to them closely through, you know, through AI and other tools to kind of summarize what the customers are saying, and then giving back to the community on on what their expectation is, and then kind of taking it from there is very important rather than, you know, we deciding what the customer wants. It's it's the other way around, right? And when they co-create things with us, when they co-create experiences, when they go and tell their friends that they had a great experience with the next YZ product, and that's that's when the brand gets built. And that's something which is very important, and that's where I think with the help of AI and lot of the martech tools which which is using AI very efficiently these days, I think that's something which all marketers should should kind of use for, more of one-on-one versus one-to-many. >> Interesting. Now, since we are on this topic of customer experience, I would want to get an insight from you. >> [clears throat] >> How is a consumer behaving today? You know, I I for sure know that you know, Acer has grown its you know, exclusive store networks significantly. You know, you are doing selling through D2C platforms as well. What's the percentage of buying? So, in terms of direct online buy to a customer stepping into a retail store and buying an Acer laptop. If you can tell me the exact percentage percentages if you have. >> Yeah, so if you look at it, obviously before retail was such a big part of our lives, lot of the people go to the stores and you know, they do the purchase and and that's about it. But the influence of e-commerce has been tremendous in all all industries, I'm sure. But especially in our in our electronics industry, e-commerce is really you know, broken lot of barriers in terms of reach. Right? So, what's happening is that you know, we are able to I'm talking about let's say our own D2C website, right? So, for example, that I can reach up to almost 20,000 pin codes, which is a huge number. Right? But the influence of retail has not gone down in that sense even though the e-commerce has grown quite a lot. What's happening is it's creating more of omni-channel experience. You know, if you look at how customers are behaving, they go to online, they see the product, they read the reviews, they come to retail store, they experience the product and wherever they are getting a good experience, they tend to buy from there and that could be right from you know, availability of product, how the product is showcased, right from offers, what kind of you know, discounts are getting, EMIs, all that kind of stuff, right? So, there's a lot of influence points there. So, it's it's the the the journey is not very linear in that sense. Um But the influence is cross-functional. So, so in our case, you know, we are depending on season or some quarter e-commerce is a little bit higher while the other quarters retail is higher, but you can almost say 50/50 is our contribution from retail and and e-commerce. And when I say retail, there is the large format retailers like your Chroma Reliance of the world and our exclusive stores. And then you have Flipkart, Amazon, and then to some extent quick commerce as well and our D2C site. But I think it's it's a it's an era where they all coexist and that's important to kind of understand how they both play a role in kind of influencing each other's platform. >> And so so you're saying it's 50/50? >> It's 50/50, yes. >> Now since it's 50/50 and you know, a lot of people are now it's you know, directly getting products through your first D2C website or the the the the larger e-commerce websites. The consumer journey is no longer you know, a neat funnel like it used to be a neat funnel, right? Consumer may discover a brand through a creator, you know, compare products on YouTube. A lot of people like me would go to YouTube before buying a laptop, see a see an influencer's video on right? How should marketers redesign, you know, journeys when discovery, consideration, conversion are all happening at once? >> Yeah, that's a good great question. I touched upon the non-linearity of the journey before, but that's something which we see more and more. I mean the the whole old school thought of you know, awareness and consideration and conversion and then to some extent retention, you know, came in after that. I think that's no longer the only way to think of marketing because if you look at how it is it's a network of influence, right? A customer may discover through a creator a product and then they might validate that same thing through reviews online and then they go to a store to experience it and then they go to a marketplace to compare it and then you know they might even use an AI assistant to research about it. Right? So the the the whole aspect is that the task is not to control the sequence. It's to ensure the brand remains credible and easy to choose when the consumer enters the brand journey. That's very important for any marketer to understand. More and more you try to control the sequence, it's not going to happen. So you should accept that the journey is now completely or almost non-linear especially in our categories where there is a lot of research, there is a lot of touch points. This is a heavy investment in terms of buying a product like a laptop or a tablet or any of those kind of devices. So the journey is no longer linear, right? So and that also affects your measurement to a large extent. Like you know when as a marketer you have to report back to your bosses internally and then you're trying to justify okay yeah this investment has given me you know conversion or this investment has given me clicks. It's it's no longer a very linear measurement as well, right? So I think that's also important for anybody to understand that it's a it's a culmination of a lot of touch points and culmination of a lot of the activities you do to ensure that your brand remains credible and it's it's something which they get an experience across all touch points which is consistent with the brand values. >> And that that takes me to another interesting question. I mean I think it's very interesting. A lot of consumers are now researching via you know LLMs, right? The Geminis, the OpenAIs of the world, right? And and and they are trained on of course global data sets including yes of course essential Indian local data sets as well. How does a marketer like you for a customer like me who is going and trying [clears throat] to find a laptop within the range of 50 to 60,000 goes to open AI and open AI starts giving me suggestions. How do you ensure that Acer goes right at the top of that that that suggestion box? Essentially which is right you know now being called A G O. Um you know in in marketing terms. But how do you ensure that? >> Yeah, that's something which I think all brands should start doing more and more of A G O or G E O uh because it's it's important that you make your content friendly for a for an AI engine to kind of recommend. Right? So the most important aspect is lot of questions and answers. The kind of recommendations which you throw from a from a reputed website. So it's if you look at SEO, yes it had similar principles of you know backlinking of of having your website recommended by a trusted uh source and all of that. So so those concepts still remain uh prevalent. But what's most important is that you have enough content across website which answers lot of questions because what happens in in a in a in a chat GPT or a Gemini or publicity is because lot of questions get asked. Right? So lot of content series has to kind of answer the questions. But what um people miss is that um your your AI engines need um you know content which is fresh. Right? Um what I see lot of people agencies do is that they just repurpose content from chat GPT or Gemini and they put that up as as an article or as as a content for them to crawl. But more and more what we are seeing is that um the AI engines have crawled the website anyway. So, uh what it's looking for are fresh content. So, um it's also important that, you know, you write your own content, which is something which is uh useful for a user in a very relevant format, which is more of answering questions, um giving useful tips, all of those kind of content, um ensuring that, you know, you have very less negative uh commentaries on on on websites like Quora, Reddit, and and all of those places. >> Uh but I think that's what I was coming to my next question, but yes, please go ahead and answer. >> Yeah, so so a lot of these uh people uh do kind of research of brands with uh with with Quora and Reddit as well. So, you need to manage your conversations there. I mean, um Instagram or or Twitter is is not enough to kind of manage that kind of conversations. You have to ensure that Reddit, Quora, all are part of your generative engine optimization strategy, where, you know, you're able to control the narrative to large extent. >> And that makes it very difficult. Sorry, I'm I'm sorry, I'm cutting you. I think that makes it very difficult for you as a marketer now because, you know, you are not you you you you don't know for sure where, you know, which link ChatGPT picks up, right? To answer a user's question, right? It can pick up an Amazon link, it can pick up a Flipkart link. So, for example, right? So, I just did a live test. I just I just told my OpenAI system, "Suggest me a laptop within the range of 50-60K, top five suggestions, no context. No no context, just a normal laptop." So, the first suggestion comes, Samsung Galaxy Book 4. Second comes, Acer Aspire Go 14. You see? Now, I'm not saying that Acer is not, you know, on the second rank compared to Samsung. Right? But I'm just saying a lot, you know, you can't you can never be sure, right? Which link it picks up to suggest uh you know, your product. So, doesn't it make your life as a marketer very difficult? >> It does, for sure. Uh no doubt about it. But, what we have to at least ensure is that the sites which it surely ranks. Now, we have a lot of martech tools to also understand which are the website which these ChatGPT and Gemini ranks, uh you know, on their list. So, as as a marketer, you should definitely cover those websites depending on what industry you are in uh to ensure those websites are very um are covered in a way which is uh you know, friendly for ChatGPT. Um see, sometimes you might have so much of uh products being sold in the market that there might be um a lot of comments on both sides, good and bad. Right? And some brands might have might be very new, might not have enough negative uh comments which gets pushed up into a a place of a number one rank or whatever because they have only sold limited numbers and they only have limited comments which are positive, right? So, ChatGPT can also get influenced by such instances as well. So, the I the objective is for any any research which you're doing not to depend only on AI research, but do your own experience, do your own um you know, uh kind of research, going to the store, um you know, reading actual reviews on on places like Amazon or or other places um and and also um ensure that, you know, you have good support and service near your place. All of those are very important as well. Um but uh as as a base rule, what you need to know is using these martech tools, understand which are the top ranking websites for your industry which ChatGPT and similar uh AI engines crawl and ensure your content is positive and you have enough content there in those sites to kind of start ranking and start recommending. >> And which websites are web- websites are these? Just for my own >> in In our case, for example, Reddit is very important. >> Mhm. >> Then you have your tech websites like your Digit, your 91 Mobiles, your MySmartPrice, all of those as well. Uh we have also seen, uh for example, Bajaj Finance ranking very highly. Um you know, um for for what reasons? Uh maybe people are seeking Bajaj Finance websites for getting a good uh kind of, you know, uh EMI offers um from their side. On laptops, right? So, uh there are some outliers like that, but then uh once you know which are the ones which are ranking, you need to work with that that publisher or that website to see enough content. And uh and start uh ensuring that these AI engines start recommending those. >> Mhm. So, Samsung source was Flipkart. Acer's Now, I've asked it to give me sources. I'm just behaving like a general consumer in this. >> Sure. >> So, Samsung's source is Flipkart. Acer's source is 91 Mobiles. That's an insight for you. >> Yeah, so that's that's right. So, we do work with uh publishers like that so that, you know, and 91 is is a is a top-ranked site in uh in the in the AI engine, right? So, um so, that's why we work with such publishers to ensure that, you know, people when they search for it, uh uh you know, such uh articles get published. See, this aspect is, you know, you can make a great product, right? But if you're not uh putting the right content out, uh then how will they discover? Now, people's mind are getting influenced so much with AI uh AI recommendation that, you know, they they they they do research for their medical problems, personal problems, their buying uh suggestions. Everything is now dependent on how, you know, AI is recommending, right? So, you have to accept that AI is a big part of anybody's recommendation. They don't want to ask like before you have word of mouth as big marketing jargon, but these days uh I think that's coming slowly down and uh in the in the generation now who's influencing, they want to depend on AI to kind of make up their mind more than asking people around. >> You know, you know, because it's easy. You can ask it questions, etc., etc., etc. But you know, I I'm you know, as a general consumer, right? It's very difficult because if I ask for five suggestions, right? As you said, you know, as a consumer, they should go out, they should research, they should go to different stores. But as a general consumer, if I'm asking for five suggestions, in the top five, it will if it leaves a brand out, right? Even if I'm going to a store, right? To check, I'm only going to research on the five suggestions that it has given me. So, the sixth one which has been left out, I'm not even going and researching for it in the store, right? And just a just a just just an observation. But you know, we were talking about content and let let me just, you know, take the conversation ahead. Uh you know, gen AI LLMs, you know, they have made content production faster, of course, cheaper. Uh but it has also generated, you know, a lot of similar-looking campaigns and a lot of generic communication. Like I I I see a lot of similar sort of campaigns all around LinkedIn, Instagram, etc. Do you think AI will make brand differentiation harder with this? And what should marketers do to protect their distinctiveness? Because there was a time when brands used to pride in their, you know, distinctiveness. And which is nowhere to be seen now because the campaigns are being made by LLMs, you know, trained on similar data sets globally. >> [snorts] >> I have a different opinion on that. I think what's all important is that AI also helps you with consistency, right? Uh, AI gets trained on what you input. Right? And if you're inputting the right brand signals, right brand, you know, identity, and right brand tonality, and then all of that, >> Mhm. >> AI will give you a creative which is in the line of what a brand should stand for and what the creative should look like or a campaign should look like. >> Mhm. >> It happens probably with maybe uh, smaller brands who are trying to, you know, generate a lot of content and they want to, you know, make it very distinctive, etc. And then they're they're trying that. But if you look at large brands, um, including us and all of that, I think what's also important is that, um, you know, let's say we depend on humans to kind of ensure consistency. >> Mhm. >> Uh, it could be a person in an agency who might be doing that work for you and then marketer to ensure brand guidelines are met, all of that. Um, but then, you know, people change and all of that. In that, you know, instance, you know, you can also lose out on some of the tonalities and all of that which you built and what made a brand stand out. But I feel AI can also add to the consistency of messaging across and not just creating different campaigns. So, uh, that's the advantage of having a model or a trained AI engine which gives you outputs which are, uh, consistent to the values which you which you have. So, there is that aspect of AI, but I agree what you what you're saying that, you know, there are there are a lot of campaigns which are just thrown in the in the social media, created of generative engines, and, you know, it might look flashy, it might have some clever headlines. Uh, but I think for a brand, um, to have some identity, it's important to be consistent in the way you're talking, the way your your colors are used, all of that basics which we have all grown up with. I think that's not get lost just because AI is there. I mean, the the the important aspect is AI should not drive what you're what you're doing. AI should be the an enabler or or a part of your campaign. I think what people are kind of going kind of going wrong is that they are depending everything on AI. And you are outsourcing your thinking also into AI. Right? So, if you look at the kind of especially the the younger generation, they don't do anything on their own. They they outsource everything, creative thinking, problem-solving, everything to to to AI tool, right? So, I think that's where as a marketer you should not do that. I think you should definitely use AI as as part of it, but not your the whole driving engine of your marketing. >> Interesting. Well, you know, Acer has also, you know, emphasized that consumer consumers understand AI online, but are still learning what AI built into a device can do, right? And which which is actually true, right? A lot of people still think AI is an online thing, right? Uh but a lot of hardware products are integrating artificial intelligence systems into them. How are you How are you making the benefits of AI PCs tangible? Because I know for sure that Acer brands a lot of its PCs under the AI symbolism. Uh so, how are you making the benefits of AI PCs tangible and relevant rather than simply using AI as a product label? >> Yeah, that's that's a question which uh we have all grappled with, but I think we have answers for that. And the answer is uh the token. Okay? Uh if you look at any of the AI cloud-based model, you need to pay for it to beyond a point, right? And that's where I think on device AI is going to greatly help in saving money for you. I think people are not talking enough about the kind of savings you're able to do when you have on device AI capabilities. Right? So, um you know, if you look at ChatGPT, if you look at any of those, beyond a point your models need to be paid monthly subscription, and that. And there is otherwise there is limitation of usage. So, I think that's a great start for for anybody to understand why you need on-device AI. Because without on-device AI, you are able to do a lot of the productivity task, your creative task, you know, using all of that on-device, which is which doesn't consume tokens, which means you don't have to pay extra for that. Right? That's one benefit. The second part is security. Right? The amount of things you are you are kind of feeding the cloud-based AI models you are about your personal data, your health data, your you know, com- company data. All of those are something which you know, it's out in the public. So, security definitely is a major problem. And and especially with with on-device AI, you know, we build our product with best of the best security chips on it. So, that none of the data goes away from from our system, the personal system which we use. So, I think those two are >> Is it a proprietary LLM or is it via another LLM? >> So, we have proprietary LLM on the devices which helps you in lot of the optimization right from battery to organizing your your photos to all of those kind of things in the background including certain softwares which helps you to do some productivity, creativity task and all of that. And beyond that, you know, if you look at you know, some of the softwares like let's say even Photoshop to to Microsoft Office to all of that, they are slowly going to move more into on-device AI so that their cloud-based usage also can come come down in terms of you know, tokenization all of that. Right? I think that's important in terms of understanding where on-device AI helps compared to just you know, cloud-based AI. So, I think it's more to do with education. We need to ensure that you know, we talk more and more about the kind of savings you're able to do, kind of security you're able to provide when it is on-device AI. and and and that's that's most important aspect to ensure that you know people understand why on device why everyone or people like Acer is really pushing on device AI. It's just not a jargon to put in front of a product name. The actual benefit is that you are actually saving money in in usage. >> Mhm. Tokens, interesting. Uh I think considering the conversation we have had, I think we are in the right point for me to ask you. Um what is Suraj's marketing stack or MarTech stack look like at Acer? Is it a fragmented one? Is it using a lot of different stacks built into one? Is it using one company's stack? What are the pain points? What are the What are the advantages of that particular stack? I don't I'm not sure if you'd be able to name it or not, but if you can give us some insights into it. >> Yeah, I think it's a MarTech is evolving very fast, okay? Um you know, we are seeing very innovative companies coming up with very good solutions which you know, we feel is uh useful for us. Uh so at this point, we are not limited to one provider for our MarTech stack. Uh so we do use different tools for our use cases. Uh right from marketing data analytics to campaign optimization, campaign delivery, all of those uh across our e-commerce channel, our social, then you know, in terms of contextual creativity, all of that. So there is definitely maybe three three to four vendors who work with us in that sense uh to provide the MarTech stack. And we keep that option open because uh the it's it's still a very fast-growing industry and it's not it's not a stagnated industry where you know, you are just going to one vendor who is who has all the answers for your you know your questions. >> What is the pain point for you right now in terms of understanding the consumer which you know which one of the vendors is solving? >> I think >> Maybe a real life example if you can share. >> Yeah, so one one of the things we are trying to look at is you know when we get lot of incoming calls for example, right? How do we ensure the tonality of the call is captured correctly? And how do we analyze what is the the kind of feedback he or she is giving? And this is post post and pre pre even when I say pre it is basically the calls which comes to us to the to the call center or to the store. And post is obviously the feedback call. So what we're trying to understand is how do you because India is such a complex geography with so many different accents and the usage of language and all of that. Right? It's not that simple unlike in in some of the other countries, right? So I think that's something which we still feel there is a gap in terms of tonality understanding of of feedbacks or calls which comes through where an AI system is able to completely summarize in the right way. I think that's one pain point which we have seen. >> I think that takes me to my next question which is about AI agent. So a lot of companies are employing AI agents to do that. But we have seen cases where you know AI agents for customer experience. >> Mhm. >> Consumer [clears throat] experience and a lot of cases where it has gone horribly wrong. Of course there are a lot of built-in use cases. But where do you stand on AI agent because because it's still still evolving. You know a lot of marketers are still grappling up with how to use them, how not to use them. Where do you draw boundary in terms of personalization because an AI agent can really penetrate that personalization boundary. So what Where do you stand on it? >> I think there are some companies who have done the AI agent quite well. But, I feel the one which is on chat-based AI agents, I think has progressed much faster compared to call-based chat agents. So, we have seen, I know, right from day to a lot of these brands using very very well kind of integrated the AI agents to kind of talk to the customer. But, our case is usually more technical. So, there are a lot of nuances in our case if it is a customer call which is coming through a call center or somebody calling our store. So, the the kind of questions they might be asking may not be easy for an agent to answer very easily, right? So, it depends on industry, I feel. I think again, this not be a broad brush kind of a solution. We need to understand who's our customer and will the customer really benefit from deploying an AI agent. Will it Will it backfire on us or will it be something which can add value? Right? So, for example, when there are very high volumes of calls coming in, right? Then, maybe having an agent to filter through calls and ensure that, you know, only the right call goes to human agent and and the other calls which are maybe easier to handle, simple questions, that could be something an agent can do. But, as the complexity of the of the product you're selling is higher, I think human intervention still required and it'll still take a little bit more time for especially the voice-based agents to catch up to how a human can respond to to another one. But, only one point which I just want to add to the benefit of an AI agent again is when you have attrition especially in in call centers kind of a industry, Uh, agents can help kind of ensure that, you know, your uh um customer experience while calling is not jeopardized to very large extent, right? So, you can still have AI agent kind of handling lot of the initial customer experience and then pass on to somebody relevant after that. So, I think there is that benefit, especially in industry like us. Um, but otherwise, uh, I feel it should not be it should not be completely handed over to an AI agent as of now. >> Interesting. Interesting. So, you know, it's very interesting to note that, you know, when the artificial intelligence boom came in, people were talking about how, you know, human intervention will become totally redundant. And slowly we are realizing that, you know, human intervention is as important as it was before. I was at Cannes this year and the the whole conversation has now changed in how humans can enable better use of AI. But I think it's a very interesting conversation. My final question to you, if you want to add something else, you can add in it. Where do you see, you know, marketing evolve especially for a brand like Acer over the next 2 years? >> See, I think let's talk about where marketing should not change. Okay, what marketing should not change is the basic understanding of consumer behavior. I think, uh, more and more marketers who come to the to the industry, what I've seen is that they depend on lot of these tools to to kind of understand, but then the basic psyche, consumer understanding, consumer behavior, that's something which any marketer should be very, very thorough about. Who's their customer? What is their pain point? What are we trying to solve? Where are they experiencing the brand? How should the brand be positioned in those touch points? What is the kind of messaging you want to leave behind? All of those things where a customer is uh, is is having a touch point and and having their experiences very important for any market you to understand. I think that's the basics which I feel a lot of people are missing, right? So, consumer understanding is something which should not be outsourced to an AI. And that's something you should learn. You should go to the store. You should maybe sell a product, understand where the pain points are, experience it yourself. Then use tools which are there, you know, AI, martech tools, all of that to kind of better the the campaign and the experiences what you're providing, right? I think that's the basic which I just want to touch upon. Where do we see evolving? I think AI will definitely become very prevalent, for sure. I think martech tools is going to be an important aspect to how marketing will be evolving. Because more and more of the way agencies are now evolving is through martech tools, is by using devices, you know, or kind of I would say services which rely on AI. So, definitely there'll be a lot of evolution on that aspect. But I still I'm very profound proponent of having the basics in place before use any tool, right? So, I think that's where I just want to leave so that any up and coming marketer should not feel that, you know, their job is just, you know, prompt managers. Right? I think that's That's something which I feel a lot of youngsters just are experts in prompting without understanding the basics of where the marketing is. >> I think if Suraj writes his own autobiography, it will be an an old school marketer with new age capabilities. >> Well, yeah, you can say that. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's that's something which I can put in my autobiography. >> Interesting. Thank you for those insights. You know, it's very clear that the next phase of marketing will not just be shared by technology but how intelligently we use you know data communities you know as we spoke in our conversation and the customer understanding all together. Thank you for your time. I think it's very interesting conversation. Great chatting with you. For watching. >> [music]